28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[lovejuice]

And Operation Dumbo Drop, can't forget that one.

le chef d'oeuvre!

[baby doll]

I don't necessarily see inspiring as being synonymous with inspirational. Pessimistic movies can't be inspiring? I'm talking about an artistic cinematic vision that captures imaginations through bolder strokes than Liberal talking points. That said, I wouldn't argue that such movies flat-out don't exist about Iraq. I thought Turtles Can Fly was a fascinating piece, and notably one not made by an American.

I'm thinking that it has less to do with an excess of war news than it is an excess of information and stimulation in general. De Palma was on to something with his approach in this regard, but he didn't follow it through.Well, the other word you used in addition to inspiring was mythical, which for me conjures up associations with Greek and Christian mythology, Joseph Campbell's "The Hero With a Thousand Faces," Fritz Lang's Die Nibelungen and Star Wars. And of course, central to all of those is heroism, and I don't see anything particularly heroic about either the Vietnam war or the current war in Iraq. The basic fact of both is that a lot of people got killed.

As for whether Redacted is a better film than The Deer Hunter (which I can't speak to, not having seen either), I find it a bit odd that you keep saying liberal so much, as if great art were above politics, when so many of the canonical Vietnam films are deeply conservative (as is the case with Coppola's). And as I said earlier, the idea voiced in the article that Vietnam makes for prettier pictures because it's more exotic, and the people are a lot nicer because the French already went to the trouble of colonizing them, is astonishingly racist (as if Americans were known for their charm). If Rendition is a bad film (and I wouldn't know because I haven't seen it), that's because it's generic Oscarbait; the idea that one war makes for better cinema than another is absurd. I wouldn't go to see Lions for Lambs not because of its subject matter but because Robert Redford is a hack: he's a forgotten Hollywood star of my father's generation who, as a director, is utterly without distinction. Who cares about Robert Redford?

[lovejuice]

Should movies about the Iraq war be inspiring or mythical? And how is, say, Apocalypse Now either of those things?

i don't know about "inspiring" but i'm pretty sure it's easy enough to make a case that Apocalypse Now is mythical. it's after all a journal into the unknown, both in the scenario and the dark chamber of human heart. besides, isn't there a passage in both the book and the movie about kurtz exercises semi magical power over the natives?

[Rowland]

Well, the other word you used in addition to inspiring was mythical, which for me conjures up associations with Greek and Christian mythology, Joseph Campbell's "The Hero With a Thousand Faces," Fritz Lang's Die Nibelungen and Star Wars. And of course, central to all of those is heroism, and I don't see anything particularly heroic about either the Vietnam war or the current war in Iraq. The basic fact of both is that a lot of people got killed.Yeah, I suppose I used the word incorrectly. I'm not a student of mythology, so when I say "mythical", I'm thinking of...... I don't know. Emotions and iconography and storytelling tropes that connect on a broader scale of human experience, maybe? More abstract and existential, less didactic?


As for whether Redacted is a better film than The Deer Hunter (which I can't speak to, not having seen either), I find it a bit odd that you keep saying liberal so much, as if great art were above politics, when so many of the canonical Vietnam films are deeply conservative (as is the case with Coppola's). And as I said earlier, the idea voiced in the article that Vietnam makes for prettier pictures because it's more exotic, and the people are a lot nicer because the French already went to the trouble of colonizing them, is astonishingly racist (as if Americans were known for their charm). If Rendition is a bad film (and I wouldn't know because I haven't seen it), that's because it's generic Oscarbait; the idea that one war makes for better cinema than another is absurd. I wouldn't go to see Lions for Lambs not because of its subject matter but because Robert Redford is a hack: he's a forgotten Hollywood star of my father's generation who, as a director, is utterly without distinction. Who cares about Robert Redford?Well, I don't like The Deer Hunter much either, for the record.

I don't think great art is above politics, not at all. I'm merely using "Liberal" as a catchall for the more didactic, overtly Hollywood-politics approach a lot of these movies take. You haven't seen Redacted yet, but I think the differences between Casualties of War and this latest war movie of De Palma's are quite instructive. That said, I imagine that Redacted being made as a direct response to a war currently taking place plays a large part in this, which brings me roundabout to the idea that movies made during an unpopular war about said war are surely received differently and play differently than movies made after the fact. Occam's razor probably applies here.

[eternity]

This Film is Not Yet Rated is funnier and more compelling than any film Michael Moore could dream of making.

[MacGuffin]

This Film is Not Yet Rated is funnier and more compelling than any film Michael Moore could dream of making.

Too bad it's structurally inane.

[Mal]

This Film is Not Yet Rated is funnier and more compelling than any film Michael Moore could dream of making.

Roger and Me

[Qrazy]

God damn! Joe Dallessandro is a terrible actor.

Someone once described Morrissey to me as a Conservative Cassavetes. After seeing two of his films, I have absolutely no fucking idea what he was talking about.

[Qrazy]

Ah, after doing some brief research I can see what he was getting at with the penchant for improv. from both directors but daaamn if the end results aren't vastly different.

[Grouchy]

Having seen only the American remake, the original TV movie Ju-On is quite good. The non-chronological storytelling is handled quite well, with only the very last shot tying all the loose ends, and the information on the curse coming in minimal waves, with practically no exposition scenes. I´ve seen way too many J-Horror to be scared, but if I´d seen it just a couple years ago, it would´ve left me sleepless. Too bad Shimizu doesn´t seem to want to do anything other than cash in Ju-On fandom and... well, I haven´t seen Marebito.

And my second Horror TV movie of the week is a re-watch from my childhood years, the infamous Trilogy of Terror - yeah, the one with the Zuni doll. When I was about 8 or 9, USA used to show Alfred Hitchcock Presents, Ray Bradbury Theatre and Twilight Zone one after the other, and one time, instead, they showed this amazing little movie, which are three Richard Matheson stories, all with Karen Black on the lead role(s). The first two are nice in a morbid way, but pretty forgettable and they go by too fast. The last one is the one worth the package - angry Zuni doll.

[eternity]

Roger and MeMy fault I haven't seen it yet.

[Rowland]

Having seen only the American remake, the original TV movie Ju-On is quite good. The non-chronological storytelling is handled quite well, with only the very last shot tying all the loose ends, and the information on the curse coming in minimal waves, with practically no exposition scenes. I´ve seen way too many J-Horror to be scared, but if I´d seen it just a couple years ago, it would´ve left me sleepless. Too bad Shimizu doesn´t seem to want to do anything other than cash in Ju-On fandom and... well, I haven´t seen Marebito.Yeah, the original Ju-On TV movie is the creepiest of the series, probably because of how lo-fi it is. Otherwise, my favorite is Ju-On: The Grudge 2. Besides Ju-On and Marebito, he has also made a movie called Reincarnation that I've heard is pretty decent.

[dreamdead]

So Miike's Gozu has some great moments of suspense and inspired insanity, but the whole affair doesn't feel all that significant. Save the splits of personality and identity, one's interest is kept because of the promise that things'll get WTF wacky. And the last twenty minutes deliver on that, especially the last five minutes, but until then it just sort of drifts along. Alas, this one's just not as awesome as Dead or Alive.

Meanwhile, Peckinpah's Straw Dogs has this same meandering sense, but because of the apathy the lead couple shares toward one another, sexual desire notwithstanding, the final conflict just doesn't resonate enough for me. Some of it feels intentional, and some of it feels tied specifically to the 70s, yet I kept feeling that Peckinpah didn't develop out the contradictions of the female lead enough. There are some great crosscuts throughout, which made me think about similarities between Peckinpah and Roeg, but there's also the general Frankenstein/Of Mice and Men archetype of the dumb-gentle brute that make me withdraw as a viewer. Interesting as a study on the 70s culture, but I favor The Wild Bunch and Bring Me the Head... exponentionally...

[Grouchy]

Yeah, the original Ju-On TV movie is the creepiest of the series, probably because of how lo-fi it is. Otherwise, my favorite is Ju-On: The Grudge 2. Besides Ju-On and Marebito, he has also made a movie called Reincarnation that I've heard is pretty decent.
I'll watch that one if I can find it, but I've just discovered a friend has Marebito and plan on watching it soon. He says it sucks. Opinions?


Meanwhile, Peckinpah's Straw Dogs has this same meandering sense, but because of the apathy the lead couple shares toward one another, sexual desire notwithstanding, the final conflict just doesn't resonate enough for me. Some of it feels intentional, and some of it feels tied specifically to the 70s, yet I kept feeling that Peckinpah didn't develop out the contradictions of the female lead enough. There are some great crosscuts throughout, which made me think about similarities between Peckinpah and Roeg, but there's also the general Frankenstein/Of Mice and Men archetype of the dumb-gentle brute that make me withdraw as a viewer. Interesting as a study on the 70s culture, but I favor The Wild Bunch and Bring Me the Head... exponentionally...
I agree that Wild Bunch and Alfredo Garcia are better, but this one left me stunned with its brutality and, contradicting your statement, its feel of a very modern, mature psychological thriller. I also think it's Dustin Hoffman's best performance and, although obviously a very good actor, he's not one I'm often impressed by. Also loved the ending shot.

[number8]

Somebody explain to me why I haven't seen Angel Heart before today.

[Ezee E]

Somebody explain to me why I haven't seen Angel Heart before today.
It looks like a horrible movie from the cover. And it's from the 80's.

It's surprisingly a great, great movie.

[Bosco B Thug]

Somebody explain to me why I haven't seen Angel Heart before today. Because it's opaque yet streamlined to the point of forgettableness?

JK, forced antagonism, I really liked the movie myself - style and performances over substance, though.

Ju-on TV is solid stuff, the best Ju-on out there. I loved Straw Dogs when I first saw it, but that was years and years ago.

[number8]

I agree. I guessed the twist (both of them) very early on, but it has just the right kind of tone to make it work. The gumshoe genre is probably my second favorite next to westerns, and you combine supernatural horror with it... Well, it's just fucking cool. Mickey Rourke cool. When everything's revealed at the end, I wasn't surprised at all, but I went, "Well, that rocks."

[Qrazy]

But there's also the general Frankenstein/Of Mice and Men archetype of the dumb-gentle brute that make me withdraw as a viewer.

I agree the film has problems, mostly in pacing/not enough rising tension. But I'm not following the gentle brute comparison at all.

[Ezee E]

I agree. I guessed the twist (both of them) very early on, but it has just the right kind of tone to make it work. The gumshoe genre is probably my second favorite next to westerns, and you combine supernatural horror with it... Well, it's just fucking cool. Mickey Rourke cool. When everything's revealed at the end, I wasn't surprised at all, but I went, "Well, that rocks."
Uh. Indeed. For every word.

[megladon8]

Somebody explain to me why I haven't seen Angel Heart before today.


Um...was this fuelled by the fact that I just read the book it's based on and I had been asking about the film?

I hope the movie is better than the book.

The book was okay - an entertaining read but not much more. Certainly not "one of the greatest horror novels of the 20th century" as the cover boasts.

[chrisnu]

Uh. Indeed. For every word.
Thirded. It makes power very, very seductive. Different kinds of power. Also, this movie was worth Lisa Bonet being forced to leave The Cosby Show.

Paprika arrived today. :)

[Grouchy]

Thirded. It makes power very, very seductive. Different kinds of power. Also, this movie was worth Lisa Bonet being forced to leave The Cosby Show.
Anyone leaving The Cosby Show for any reason should be thankful for their entire lives. Even Bill Cosby.

[Qrazy]

Does Peter Medak have any other interesting films aside from The Changeling and The Ruling Class?

[Boner M]

Does Peter Medak have any other interesting films aside from The Changeling and The Ruling Class?
I never realised he directed both films until reading your post. Cool.

[Rowland]

I know that it's fairly useless to dwell on minor plot details in what amounts to a parable, but dammit, in Vertigo, where the hell does Madeleine disappear to when Scottie follows her into the hotel early in the movie? Heck, how did she even get into the room without her key or the old woman noticing? When Scottie walked into the hotel, did she crawl out the second-floor window and dive into a bush? Was Gavin hiding on the side of the building with a ladder for her to climb down? :frustrated:

[origami_mustache]

So today I found out someone is taking my Netflix movies from the apartment building's mail drop. Apparently they've been returning some and keeping others. I first noticed it was taking unusually long for Netflix to receive my movies a while back. Then a few weeks ago they didn't receive all three of my returns, so I reported them missing. Suspicions were confirmed this morning when I found a film I attempted to mail 2 days without the Netflix envelope just laying in the mail drop.

:frustrated:

[Duncan]

A lot of frustration in this thread recently. Anyway, Au Hasard Balthazar was one of the best films I've ever seen. Looking forward to Mouchette.

[Yxklyx]

So today I found out someone is taking my Netflix movies from the apartment building's mail drop. Apparently they've been returning some and keeping others. I first noticed it was taking unusually long for Netflix to receive my movies a while back. Then a few weeks ago they didn't receive all three of my returns, so I reported them missing. Suspicions were confirmed this morning when I found a film I attempted to mail 2 days without the Netflix envelope just laying in the mail drop.

:frustrated:

The best way to combat this is to only queue really bizarre movies that only you would like. I've had similar things happen.

[Derek]

A lot of frustration in this thread recently. Anyway, Au Hasard Balthazar was one of the best films I've ever seen. Looking forward to Mouchette.

Awesome. This is always good to hear considering Bresson's lukewarm reputation around these parts. Mouchette is also spectacular if not quite the same caliber, then again I can't think of more than 4 or 5 that are.

[Qrazy]

So today I found out someone is taking my Netflix movies from the apartment building's mail drop. Apparently they've been returning some and keeping others. I first noticed it was taking unusually long for Netflix to receive my movies a while back. Then a few weeks ago they didn't receive all three of my returns, so I reported them missing. Suspicions were confirmed this morning when I found a film I attempted to mail 2 days without the Netflix envelope just laying in the mail drop.

:frustrated:

Time to go Cache on their asses.


Does anyone else here find Catherine Deneuve to be a fairly weak actress for the most part? A beauty, a compelling personality/screen presence, and I love most of her roles but I'm really not feeling the range.

[Qrazy]

A lot of frustration in this thread recently. Anyway, Au Hasard Balthazar was one of the best films I've ever seen. Looking forward to Mouchette.

I completely agree with you about Balthazar, can't stand Mouchette though. It has a few shining moments stylistically.

[Yxklyx]

Time to go Cache on their asses.


Does anyone else here find Catherine Deneuve to be a fairly weak actress for the most part? A beauty, a compelling personality/screen presence, and I love most of her roles but I'm really not feeling the range.

I don't even think she's that beautiful. Way overrated.

[Spinal]

Let me be the first to say that Deneuve is a great beauty and a great actress. I'm going with conventional wisdom on this one.

[Derek]

I don't even think she's that beautiful. Way overrated.

:eek:

I can think of few women sexier than Catherine Deneuve in her prime. I have trouble focusing while watching Repulsion because of how incredibly beautiful she is.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/catherine.deneuve/scansd/deneuve/Repulsion.jpg

Uh...indeed.

Actually, can someone make avatar of that for me?

[origami_mustache]

Time to go Cache on their asses.



haha I have been considering some sort of retaliation...perhaps that is the answer.

[Qrazy]

Any word on this?

The Overcoat (Russian: Шине́ль, Shinyel) is an upcoming animated feature film that has been the main project of acclaimed Russian director and animator Yuriy Norshteyn since 1981. It is based on the short story by Nikolai Gogol with the same name.

At least 25 minutes are believed to have been completed to date. The unfinished film has been shown publicly in several exhibitions of Norshteyn's work around the world and clips of it have been included in a few documentary films about Russian animation and culture.

On March 13, 2007, Norshteyn stated that he plans to release the first 30 minutes of the film with a soundtrack into theatres by the end of 2007.[1] The finished film of around 65 minutes will be released at an undetermined later date.

---

Sweet jesus it makes me quiver with excitement.

[Sycophant]

Actually, can someone make avatar of that for me?Couple options:

http://whatnot.bombdotcom.net/shit/repulsion1.jpg

http://whatnot.bombdotcom.net/shit/repulsion2.jpg

Or as you might prefer...

http://whatnot.bombdotcom.net/shit/repulsionhuston.jpg

[Spinal]

Is nothing sacred? :sad:

[Sycophant]

Is nothing sacred? :sad:
Yeah, 'fraid not.

[Derek]

Yeah, 'fraid not.

This is MatchCut after all. Nothing's sacred, nothing's safe.

Thanks for the av, Sycophant.

[Winston*]

Members of the Match Cut populace,

I hereby declare the visage of one Daniel X Huston to be banned from use in any and all future photoshopping efforts within the confines of the Match Cut forums, effective immediately.

Signed;

Winston* Winston

[Derek]

Members of the Match Cut populace,

I hereby declare the visage of one Daniel X Huston to be banned from use in any and all future photoshopping efforts within the confines of the Match Cut forums, effective immediately.

Signed;

Winston* Winston

But he shall forever remain a part of our banner. He's in our DNA, he pumps the blood that keeps this site alive. He cooks our meals, he hauls our trash, he connects our calls, he drives our ambulances. He guard us while we sleep. Do not...fuck with him.

[lovejuice]

i really don't understand why all the negativity toward enchanted. i love love love this film. not only does it able to sustain its energy through out the whole running time -- well, almost anyway -- but i also think it does a good job thematically. it's not fairy tale > reality, or the other way around. the movie's trying to say a fairy-tale-type person needs to be more realistic, and vice versa.

about the ending. it's never been easy to come up with a conclusion that will satisfy everyone. definitely stronger characterization for supporting roles will do this movie a buncha good. so that audiences can accept the couple switching more. but for what it is, i applaud the film-makers. awesome all around. :pritch:

[Grouchy]

I know that it's fairly useless to dwell on minor plot details in what amounts to a parable, but dammit, in Vertigo, where the hell does Madeleine disappear to when Scottie follows her into the hotel early in the movie? Heck, how did she even get into the room without her key or the old woman noticing? When Scottie walked into the hotel, did she crawl out the second-floor window and dive into a bush? Was Gavin hiding on the side of the building with a ladder for her to climb down? :frustrated:
Yeah, that scene doesn't make a lick of sense, but then again, a lot of things in Vertigo don't. How could Gavin be 100% sure that Scottie wouldn't overcome his vertigo and discover him holding his dead wife's body at the top of the tower? He couldn't. Why did he even need to bother with Scottie, when he could've approached less intelligent individals as witnesses of his wife's insanity? His plan is so full of holes it hurts.

Vertigo remains the best movie I've ever seen. While those plot holes are obvious from any rational analysis of the story, I would never have thought of them while watching. It's a movie based on emotions and unrelentless passion, and what matters is Hitch's masterful audience manipulation and the emotional impact he subjects the viewers to. I bet he could've directed the same story from a more realistic standpoint, but he chose to make a balls-to-the-walls emotional (edging on surreal) experience.

[Duncan]

I definitely noticed those plot holes the first time I watched Vertigo. They bothered me.

[Yxklyx]

Yeah, 'fraid not.

Case in point. When I first saw The Umbrellas of Cherbourg I wasn't sure what Deneuve looked like but I knew she was in it though not in which part. I already knew Jeanne Moreau (who is exquisite) so that left her to be either the main girl at the start or the girl Guy gets in the end. I assumed that it was the latter who I thought was much prettier - later when I checked out the parts I was surprised that she was the main girl - since "beautiful Deneuve" was one of the movie's descriptions.

[Sven]

i really don't understand why all the negativity toward enchanted. i love love love this film. not only does it able to sustain its energy through out the whole running time -- well, almost anyway -- but i also think it does a good job thematically. it's not fairy tale > reality, or the other way around. the movie's trying to say a fairy-tale-type person needs to be more realistic, and vice versa.

about the ending. it's never been easy to come up with a conclusion that will satisfy everyone. definitely stronger characterization for supporting roles will do this movie a buncha good. so that audiences can accept the couple switching more. but for what it is, i applaud the film-makers. awesome all around. :pritch:

This movie didn't have anything to do with or say about reality. It's all fantasy. Even the "real" people all end up converted to acting out a fairy tale in the end when it's discovered that these people are actually from a Disney movie. Ridiculous.

[jesse]

Case in point. When I first saw The Umbrellas of Cherbourg I wasn't sure what Deneuve looked like but I knew she was in it though not in which part. I already knew Jeanne Moreau (who is exquisite) so that left her to be either the main girl at the start or the girl Guy gets in the end. I assumed that it was the latter who I thought was much prettier - later when I checked out the parts I was surprised that she was the main girl - since "beautiful Deneuve" was one of the movie's descriptions. Errrr... there's no other female lead in Umbrellas, is there? (Or maybe I'm misremembering.)

And if you're talking about Young Girls of Rochefort, that co-stared Denueve's real-life sister Françoise Dorléac (who I think was just as beautiful and just as talented as her more famous sister).

[Eleven]

French chicks are hot. Especially ones in movies.

[Ezee E]

I did it. I watched I Know Who Killed Me in hopes that it would be a so bad it's good type of movie, but instead it's just simply all over the place. It's not sure if it wants to be a murder mystery, torture porn, or deal with amnesia. A few moments of hilarity with its framing of Lohan waving around her dismembered hand, and a sex scene that comes out of nowhere.

Not worth looking at people.

[number8]

I did it. I watched I Know Who Killed Me in hopes that it would be a so bad it's good type of movie, but instead it's just simply all over the place. It's not sure if it wants to be a murder mystery, torture porn, or deal with amnesia. A few moments of hilarity with its framing of Lohan waving around her dismembered hand, and a sex scene that comes out of nowhere.

Not worth looking at people.

I don't usually avoid movies because of actors (after all, I was still mucho excited for MI3 when the Tom Cruise hate bandwagon was at its peak), but I really don't think I can muster any will to watch a Lindsay Lohan movie ever again. The only of hers that I still want to see is Prairie Home Companion.

[Rowland]

I did it. I watched I Know Who Killed Me in hopes that it would be a so bad it's good type of movie, but instead it's just simply all over the place. It's not sure if it wants to be a murder mystery, torture porn, or deal with amnesia. A few moments of hilarity with its framing of Lohan waving around her dismembered hand, and a sex scene that comes out of nowhere.

Not worth looking at people.Still seeing it. Evil Dead Trap didn't know what the hell it was either, and that rocked.

[MadMan]

But he shall forever remain a part of our banner. He's in our DNA, he pumps the blood that keeps this site alive. He cooks our meals, he hauls our trash, he connects our calls, he drives our ambulances. He guard us while we sleep. Do not...fuck with him.So Danny Huston is.....MATCHCUT!?! Whoa :eek: (I love the reference btw. It took me a second to realize where it was from).


Members of the Match Cut populace,

I hereby declare the visage of one Daniel X Huston to be banned from use in any and all future photoshopping efforts within the confines of the Match Cut forums, effective immediately.

Signed;

Winston* WinstonYou signed that with two fingers crossed behind your back :P

That said, I wonder what celeb you will choose to feature in photoshops next....


Or as you might prefer...

http://whatnot.bombdotcom.net/shit/repulsionhuston.jpgDisturbing and hilarious.

[Rowland]

Vertigo remains the best movie I've ever seen. While those plot holes are obvious from any rational analysis of the story, I would never have thought of them while watching. It's a movie based on emotions and unrelentless passion, and what matters is Hitch's masterful audience manipulation and the emotional impact he subjects the viewers too. I bet he could've directed the same story from a more realistic standpoint, but he chose to make a balls-to-the-walls emotional (edging on surreal) experience.Yeah, I appreciate his approach in theory, and the movie is an engaging experience. It just doesn't move me... nor does it help that most of the movie is very obviously rooted in mother/whore psychology.

[Grouchy]

Yeah, I appreciate his approach in theory, and the movie is an engaging experience. It just doesn't move me... nor does it help that most of the movie is very obviously rooted in mother/whore psychology.
That's only one level of interpretation. The level I find more appealing is the one where the movie is an analysis on the futility of romantic love. Scottie has fallen in love not with an actual woman, but with an elaborate performance, like having a crush on Ingrid Bergman, but only as Ilsa in Casablanca. The movie then shows the woman behind the appearances and, in a sick twist, has the character dead so Scottie becomes something of a necrophile.

The reason why I don't really care about the plot holes is that the gumshoe story is obviously just an excuse for this visual parable.

[Rowland]

That's only one level of interpretation. The level I find more appealing is the one where the movie is an analysis on the futility of romantic love. Scottie has fallen in love not with an actual woman, but with an elaborate performance, like having a crush on Ingrid Bergman, but only as Ilsa in Casablanca. During this viewing, which I believe is my third, I was most interested in all of the symbols for the inexorable flow of time, and just how fleeting our (love-)lives are in the grand scheme of things.


The reason why I don't really care about the plot holes is that the gumshoe story is obviously just an excuse for this visual parable.Sure, and I acknowledged this before my bitching. But still, repeat viewings aren't very kind to Vertigo's literal plot.

[Raiders]

I find I love Vertigo more on repeat viewings as I come to see more and more how the opening half of the film is more or less one giant MacGuffin played not just on Scotty, but the audience as well. It really shouldn't make sense if used in context of Hitchcock's obvious intentions for the film.

[Rowland]

It really shouldn't make sense if used in context of Hitchcock's obvious intentions for the film.How do you figure? Which obvious intentions are you referring to?

[Raiders]

How do you figure? Which obvious intentions are you referring to?

I doubt a single person who initially went to see that film expected it to be more of a tragic romance and the entire opening hour plus of the film is an act of immersion by Hitchcock. It is hardly about sensible plot, and the more mysterious and elusive it becomes, the better it works for me. As the final act of the film makes explicit, the film is more about the unattainable image of a woman, in this case Hitchcock's own muse, the icy blond. The entire opening act is a series of cat and mouse games, Scotty following Madeleine, both literally and figuratively, deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole. She's more of a cypher than a character, so her own acts of disappearance and ambiguous behavior fit precisely into her role in both Scotty and Hitchcock's mind.

[Rowland]

She's more of a cypher than a character, so her own acts of disappearance and ambiguous behavior fit precisely into her role in both Scotty and Hitchcock's mind.And then the second half renders Judy more human and sympathetic than the increasingly alienating Scotty, which I like a lot.

[Watashi]

Heh. Speaking of Vertigo, I just rewatched it on HDnet. Still as masterful as ever. Hitchcock sures knows how to shoot his kisses.

[Qrazy]

Anyone have any responses/thoughts on my Medak and Norstein queries?

[Rowland]

Heh. Speaking of Vertigo, I just rewatched it on HDnet. Still as masterful as ever. Hitchcock sures knows how to shoot his kisses.Ditto. Well, I watched it yesterday, and about half of it again today. The second half is definitely where it really comes into its own.

[baby doll]

Does anyone else here find Catherine Deneuve to be a fairly weak actress for the most part? A beauty, a compelling personality/screen presence, and I love most of her roles but I'm really not feeling the range.Have you seen Techine's Ma saison preferee?

[MacGuffin]

I mostly like Vertigo for its sense of atmosphere and style. When I saw Zodiac, I called it the best photographing of San Francisco since Vertigo, and I stand by that, though I won't call one better than the other. That said, other then the atmosphere and style, there's not much else going for Vertigo aside from the uniformly brilliant performances Hitchcock seems to have no problem evoking from his actors. Also, the one extended sequence where he follows her around numerous San Francisco locations. However, with that, it just goes back to atmosphere, style, and performances, really. I didn't find the story too interesting. Rear Window is my favorite Alfred Hitchcock movie, followed by Psycho. By the way, has anybody seen Gus Van Sant's remake of Psycho, and is it worth a viewing?

[Boner M]

Ellen Page haters might wanna avoid The Tracey Fragments, where she plays probably the most angst-ridden teen that cinema has ever seen, and which uses a split-screen device throughout so that you're watching up to 20 of her at the same time. As unbearable as that likely sounds, it's actually often thrilling and the emotional shrillness of the script is made palatable by the frenetic cinematic technique, which among other thing gives the film a much-needed sense of irony and humour that I recognised from McDonald's earlier road movies like Roadkill and Highway 61, with which this films shares the same snarling, punk-ish sensibility. There's always interesting juxtapositions going on between the various split-screen images, and in general it avoids a sense of cheap gimmickry that adds up to a successful cinematic experiment in form-as-content.

The Maddin short shown before, entitled Odin's Shield Maiden, elicited a big 'huh?' from me, and not in the good way.

[Qrazy]

Have you seen Techine's Ma saison preferee?

Nope, a great performance?

[baby doll]

Nope, a great performance?It's pretty awesome.

[Boner M]

Anyone have any responses/thoughts on my Medak and Norstein queries?
I looked up Medak and found out he directed The Krays, which I've heard good things about. It was also written by Philip Ridley, who directed the excellent The Reflecting Skin.

[Qrazy]

It's pretty awesome.

Although Tristana is actually my least favorite Bunuel I found her character inversion in the film pretty effective.

[MadMan]

I caught much of the Psycho remake on the Sci-Fi channel one night (funny enough it was on the same night AMC decided to show the original). It copied the original scene for scene, word for word, character for character with the only difference being it was more modern. What a waste of money, talent (there are some good actors involved) and time. I quit watching after the detective went up to the hotel to talk to Norman. Had I stuck it out all the way through I would have probably given the film a 1.0/10.0 or even a 0.0, simply because the whole thing is not only dumb but so completely pointless, causing me to go to the extremes of annoyance and anger.

[Derek]

I caught much of the Psycho remake on the Sci-Fi channel one night (funny enough it was on the same night AMC decided to show the original). It copied the original scene for scene, word for word, character for character with the only difference being it was more modern. What a waste of money, talent (there are some good actors involved) and time. I quit watching after the detective went up to the hotel to talk to Norman. Had I stuck it out all the way through I would have probably given the film a 1.0/10.0 or even a 0.0, simply because the whole thing is not only dumb but so completely pointless, causing me to go to the extremes of annoyance and anger.

Not quite word-for-word and some of the shots were a bit different, unless I forgot about Norman masturbating while looking through the peephole in the original. It's a pretty pointless experiment as Van Sant doesn't really do much with the modern context or addition of color.

[MadMan]

Not quite word-for-word and some of the shots were a bit different, unless I forgot about Norman masturbating while looking through the peephole in the original. It's a pretty pointless experiment as Van Sant doesn't really do much with the modern context or addition of color.I completely forgot about the whole jerking off thing by Norman. And yeah there were a few different shots.

Seriously this type of remake is actually worse than remakes that are worse than the originals. At least most of those usually do things different and attempt to be more than carbon copies. I espeically enjoyed Halloween(2007) because it ended up being quite the opposite of the original, and in a good way.

[Boner M]

Let's not forget Van Sant's beloved time-lapse shots of clouds during the shower scene. WTF.

[Mysterious Dude]

Let's not forget Van Sant's beloved time-lapse shots of clouds during the shower scene. WTF.
And when William H. Macy gets it in the face, there's a shot of a naked woman in a mask and shot of a cow in a road.

[NickGlass]

Ellen Page haters might wanna avoid The Tracey Fragments, where she plays probably the most angst-ridden teen that cinema has ever seen, and which uses a split-screen device throughout so that you're watching up to 20 of her at the same time. There's always interesting juxtapositions going on between the various split-screen images, and in general it avoids a sense of cheap gimmickry that adds up to a successful cinematic experiment in form-as-content.


Sure, this isn't Before the Devil Knows You're Dead (oy), but its conceit still grows tiresome before the film nears its end.

[Qrazy]

And when William H. Macy gets it in the face, there's a shot of a naked woman in a mask and shot of a cow in a road.

Such a brilliant 'artiste'.

[nono]

Hi, I'm new here. I liked to post on Rotten Tomatoes. This site is cool as well. I love this discussion. Recently I saw Stranger Than Paradise, which was very good. It felt true to life, about these people who are just living, for no particular reason. They are guided by the hand of fate, it seems. But particularly brilliant was the moments that show the warmth of their humanity, such as the way Eddie turns around to look at Ava while he's driving the car on their way to Florida, then you see Ava asleep with her hair in her face. Non-verbal communication tells more than the verbal in this film. I really liked Criterion's dvd, but Permanent Vacation was a big disappointment. Pretentious tripe, the opposite of STP. I expected more from Jarmusch, even if it was a debut.

[MadMan]

Hi, I'm new here. I liked to post on Rotten Tomatoes. This site is cool as well. I love this discussion. Recently I saw Stranger Than Paradise, which was very good. It felt true to life, about these people who are just living, for no particular reason. They are guided by the hand of fate, it seems. But particularly brilliant was the moments that show the warmth of their humanity, such as the way Eddie turns around to look at Ava while he's driving the car on their way to Florida, then you see Ava asleep with her hair in her face. Non-verbal communication tells more than the verbal in this film. I really liked Criterion's dvd, but Permanent Vacation was a big disappointment. Pretentious tripe, the opposite of STP. I expected more from Jarmusch, even if it was a debut.Howdy and welcome to the site. The more the merrier :cool:

[Sven]

Hi, I'm new here. I liked to post on Rotten Tomatoes. This site is cool as well. I love this discussion. Recently I saw Stranger Than Paradise, which was very good. It felt true to life, about these people who are just living, for no particular reason. They are guided by the hand of fate, it seems. But particularly brilliant was the moments that show the warmth of their humanity, such as the way Eddie turns around to look at Ava while he's driving the car on their way to Florida, then you see Ava asleep with her hair in her face. Non-verbal communication tells more than the verbal in this film. I really liked Criterion's dvd, but Permanent Vacation was a big disappointment. Pretentious tripe, the opposite of STP. I expected more from Jarmusch, even if it was a debut.

Welcome and repped for your awesomely accurate Knocked Up rating!

However, be aware that I'm one of the world's most intense haters of Stranger Than Paradise. Bah! to that one, I say.

[Sycophant]

Glory to the Filmmaker is a fun, worthwhile film with a lot of interesting things going on in it. However, I don't think I'd hesitate to call it my least favorite Kitano film. Still, I had a blast with it and laughed a lot. A lot a lot.

[Grouchy]

Hondo has to be one of the coolest westerns ever - and to think I only knew it for that Married with Children episode. Hondo (John Wayne) is a half-breed loner who works as a messenger for the Army in an area filled with unfriendly Apaches. The movie must've made a great double-feature with Shane from the same year, but where the latter is a Messiah-like figure with almost supernatural shooting skill, Hondo is one of the most human and complex characters Wayne ever did. John Farrow (an underrated Hollywood director) crafted this with a great eye for detail and an unrushed pacing and, at 80 minutes, he tells a lot of interesting storylines filled with vivid characters. I liked the movie's lack of maniqueism about the indian issue. Several times it's mentioned that the whites broke the peace treaty before the indians, and Hondo's half-breed condition is portrayed as a cultural advantage over his Army pals. The only thing I didn't like was Geraldine Page, the leading lady. Her teeth are weird and her performance lacks all kinds of conviction.

[Boner M]

Sure, this isn't Before the Devil Knows You're Dead (oy), but its conceit still grows tiresome before the film nears its end.
When/where did you see it? I can't remember it popping up in your sig.

btw, your sig disclaimer has changed from irony to sincerity. Neat.

[Spinal]

It is Fine. Everything is Fine! (Glover): 7.0

Do tell.

[Watashi]

Blade Runner (Scott): Let's not go there.

?

[Watashi]

I revisited An American Tail since my childhood and it hasn't held up at all. It isn't quite the Spiegelmanesque survival story I remembered, but rather daft and uneven. The separation of Fievel isn't as severe as the film suggests (he is, after all, still in the same vicinity as his family). Only the brother-sister duet of "Somewhere Out There" carries any emotional significance in Fievel's quest. All of the side-characters are reduced to common stereotypes and feature uninspired brainless songs.

Thank God the sequel kicks so much ass. The Laaaazy Eye > All

[origami_mustache]

Hi, I'm new here. I liked to post on Rotten Tomatoes. This site is cool as well. I love this discussion. Recently I saw Stranger Than Paradise, which was very good. It felt true to life, about these people who are just living, for no particular reason. They are guided by the hand of fate, it seems. But particularly brilliant was the moments that show the warmth of their humanity, such as the way Eddie turns around to look at Ava while he's driving the car on their way to Florida, then you see Ava asleep with her hair in her face. Non-verbal communication tells more than the verbal in this film. I really liked Criterion's dvd, but Permanent Vacation was a big disappointment. Pretentious tripe, the opposite of STP. I expected more from Jarmusch, even if it was a debut.

Welcome...I love Stranger Than Paradise as well...haven't seen Permanent Vacation though.

"It's Screamin' Jay Hawkins and he's a wild man so bug off."

[Bosco B Thug]

Rear Window is my favorite Alfred Hitchcock movie, followed by Psycho. By the way, has anybody seen Gus Van Sant's remake of Psycho, and is it worth a viewing? Please, please allow this review (http://cc.usu.edu/~alexjack/viddiedreviews/psycho98.html) to persuade or dissuade you. :)

Pure coincidence, I swear, but I actually got to watch the first 20 or so minutes of Vertigo a few days ago, a mere 2nd viewing after many many years. That introductory shot of Kim Novak is masterful. I'll try to watch the whole film this week.

[MadMan]

I revisited An American Tail since my childhood and it hasn't held up at all. It isn't quite the Spiegelmanesque survival story I remembered, but rather daft and uneven. The separation of Fievel isn't as severe as the film suggests (he is, after all, still in the same vicinity as his family). Only the brother-sister duet of "Somewhere Out There" carries any emotional significance in Fievel's quest. All of the side-characters are reduced to common stereotypes and feature uninspired brainless songs.

Thank God the sequel kicks so much ass. The Laaaazy Eye > AllFrom what I remember the sequel is much better, and far more entertaining as well. But then I'm biased in favor of the sequel also because its set in the old west and I'm a huge fan of the western genre.


?I don't think that bodes well.....


Hondo has to be one of the coolest westerns ever - and to think I only knew it for that Married with Children episode. Hondo (John Wayne) is a half-breed loner who works as a messenger for the Army in an area filled with unfriendly Apaches. The movie must've made a great double-feature with Shane from the same year, but where the latter is a Messiah-like figure with almost supernatural shooting skill, Hondo is one of the most human and complex characters Wayne ever did. John Farrow (an underrated Hollywood director) crafted this with a great eye for detail and an unrushed pacing and, at 80 minutes, he tells a lot of interesting storylines filled with vivid characters. I liked the movie's lack of maniqueism about the indian issue. Several times it's mentioned that the whites broke the peace treaty before the indians, and Hondo's half-breed condition is portrayed as a cultural advantage over his Army pals. The only thing I didn't like was Geraldine Page, the leading lady. Her teeth are weird and her performance lacks all kinds of conviction.I tried to like that film. I really did. But I was bored stiff by the flick. There's some good things yes and John Wayne does a fine job with the material. But in the end the movie really is old school "White man defeats noble savages." A more complex, far better film involving racism towards the American Indians and is controversial as a result is The Searchers(1956), which incidentally also sports Wayne's finest and best performance. To me Hondo in the end is a medocre film, one that has some good things but is pretty forgettable overall.

[Boner M]

Bah, the R4 Cassavetes box set has no special features aside from a doco and an essay booklet. Should've just got the UK or Criterion versions instead... but the low price beckoned.

Plus, the booklet has two insightful pieces by people the same age as me. Makes me jealous. :evil:

[Qrazy]

Please, please allow this review (http://cc.usu.edu/~alexjack/viddiedreviews/psycho98.html) to persuade or dissuade you. :)

Pure coincidence, I swear, but I actually got to watch the first 20 or so minutes of Vertigo a few days ago, a mere 2nd viewing after many many years. That introductory shot of Kim Novak is masterful. I'll try to watch the whole film this week.

12/3/07

Re: Regarding recent letter from colleague at Ilohica Institute, Bedtast.

To Whom it May Concern,

In regards to Project Psycho, Patient B Thug's mental state has deteriorated still further. Patient B now demonstrates homicidal, delusional and over-zealously paranoiac behavioral tendencies in response to further exposure to object; codename: P98. A recently confiscated scrap of paper from ward's cell confirmed our suspicions regarding patient's tendency to formulate elaborate and nonsensical conspiratorial theories. It is our clinical belief that this pathos stems directly from B's exposure to P98. We cite our earlier work, The Riddle of the Coma Stricken Zabriskie Point Patient, as supplementary evidence for this conclusion.

By way of brief clarification, the individual has responded to the emotionally trying schema, vis. the object in question, by attempting to make sense of it in some way. As P98 resists basic forms of analysis and aesthetic justification, B has attempted to rectify cognitive dissonance via tenuous and needlessly complicated obfuscations which result in sporadic, yet strikingly violent outbursts. It is our belief, although subject to further inquiry, that B's outbursts arise only when the fallibility of his illusory authority figure comes into question. Figure has often been cited by B as Gus V. Note: There appears to be a subconscious connection between patient's apparent blood-lust and the naming of V.

We advise complete isolation, effective IMMEDIATELY.

Signed,

A. Hitchcock
Q.Z.

Disclaimer: The above post is not meant to be taken as actual psychoanalysis, but as a tongue in cheek analysis of an analysis which claims to find meaning in a presumed tongue in cheek meta-genre analysis carbon copy of a genre analysis.

[Boner M]

BBT didn't write that review, Q.

[Qrazy]

BBT didn't write that review, Q.

Well fuck me in the ass and call me Balthazar.

[Boner M]

Well fuck me in the ass and call me Balthazar.
I'll rep you anyway for the effort.

[origami_mustache]

Children of Paradise (Marcel Carné, 1945)

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/EdwardCopeland/foreign/children_of_paradise.jpg

A beautiful romantic epic blooming from the tradition of occupied French poetic realism, Children of Paradise follows the intersecting paths of love and lust between Garance (Arletty) and four men for whom she is the object of desire. Although the film is set in 19th century Paris, the film allegorizes occupied France and employs fantastic camera work, lavish set decor as well as wardrobe. The film is full of richly distinct and intriguing characters, including Baptiste (Jean-Louis Barrault), the dreamer and popular pantomime artisté, who believes anything is possible. At one point he remarks that "dreams and life are the same thing." Frédérick (Pierre Brasseur) begins as an unemployed actor/ladies man, who eventually evolves into the most popular and beloved actor in the nation. Thirdly, there is the lonely, pessimistic, murderous, thief, Pierre-François Lacenaire (Marcel Herrand). Playing a foil to lover of life, Baptiste, Lacenaire decrees his disdain for humanity and most importantly illustrates the similarities between comedy and tragedy. Just before the climax Lacenaire warns "The plots are the same, however the distinctions lie in the character's class, however there are instances where all men are equal." The last love interest of Garance is Édouard, Count de Montray, a rich and jealous man who comments that the plays of Shakespeare are dull and bestial and best suited for the lower classes; "Today one comes not for the plays, but for the actors." There are several other characters of interest including Jericho the ragman, and Nathalie who falls in love with Baptiste and eventually mothers his child, despite his love for Garance. The film contains several acts of violence, however Carné makes use of elliptical editing to deny the spectator from seeing such acts, much in the same manner the Coen's do most recently in No Country For Old Men. Children of Paradise has much to explore, historically, philosophically, cinematically, etc., however I did have a minor qualm with the film that is very subjective and not so much a factor on my feelings towards it overall. I just found Garance to be a completely unlikable and unsympathetic character. Moreover I didn't find her to be the least bit attractive, in fact I was repulsed by her looks as well as her character's personality, but it seems that the filmmakers urge us to embrace Baptiste and Garance's infidelity.

[Qrazy]

Children of Paradise (Marcel Carné, 1945)

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/EdwardCopeland/foreign/children_of_paradise.jpg


Nice review, I loved the film when I first saw it but I also saw it about 6 years ago when I was first getting into film. I think it deserves a re-watch and that I'd get even more out of it.

Although I watched Port of Shadows for the first time a few months ago and while it was fine, good even, it did not blow me away.

[Bosco B Thug]

Well fuck me in the ass and call me Balthazar. It's okay, no need of that, I'm flattered you thought I could come up with such transcendent understanding of pop art! :pritch:


Seriously, though, I'll admit the Psycho remake holds some sentimental value (and a possible fascination with dress-up...), but psh, I'm not crazy! Zabriskie Point, though... well, that one's up in the air.

(haven't seen it)

[Mal]

Raiders, please talk about Life of Reilly

[Qrazy]

Frenzy - No one thought to dust the ties for fingerprints? Hah, other than that fairly entertaining Hitch outing.

[balmakboor]

There is a difference between plot holes and a deliberate mind-fuck.
Complaining about disappearing women in Vertigo is like complaining about disappearing women in L'Avventura or Mulholland Dr.

[Raiders]

There is a difference between plot holes and a deliberate mind-fuck.
Complaining about disappearing women in Vertigo is like complaining about disappearing women in L'Avventura or Mulholland Dr.

Yeah, it seems to me it wouldn't have been that difficult to give her a back exit if necessary, but the intention was to be deliberately mysterious and implausible.

[Sven]

I revisited An American Tail since my childhood and it hasn't held up at all. It isn't quite the Spiegelmanesque survival story I remembered, but rather daft and uneven. The separation of Fievel isn't as severe as the film suggests (he is, after all, still in the same vicinity as his family). Only the brother-sister duet of "Somewhere Out There" carries any emotional significance in Fievel's quest. All of the side-characters are reduced to common stereotypes and feature uninspired brainless songs.

Thank God the sequel kicks so much ass. The Laaaazy Eye > All

Booo-urns. The Mouse of Minsk > The Laaaazy Eye

Although I do love the sequel as well.

[monolith94]

The only thing that really bothered me about An American Tail was the horrible, horrible singing by the child-actors. Like, really bad, hard to listen to. I get it that they weren't supposed to be "professionals" but frankly I found it painful.

[Mysterious Dude]

Frenzy - No one thought to dust the ties for fingerprints? Hah, other than that fairly entertaining Hitch outing.I don't think it's possible to dust fabric for fingerprints.




I revisited An American Tail since my childhood and it hasn't held up at all. It isn't quite the Spiegelmanesque survival story I remembered, but rather daft and uneven. The separation of Fievel isn't as severe as the film suggests (he is, after all, still in the same vicinity as his family). Only the brother-sister duet of "Somewhere Out There" carries any emotional significance in Fievel's quest. All of the side-characters are reduced to common stereotypes and feature uninspired brainless songs.

Thank God the sequel kicks so much ass. The Laaaazy Eye > All

I love An American Tail. I don't know what you mean by saying the separation isn't as "severe" as the film suggests. The characters don't know where the others are. That's severe enough as far as I'm concerned. The film several times shows how close they are to each other, so I don't think it's attempting to mislead us.

I think Tiger is an excellent supporting character.

But the one reason I really like the movie is because it's a setting and a subject matter that I'm interested in, but very rarely see in movies. The sequel, of course, goes to a setting I've already seen hundreds of times.

[monolith94]

Kind of a shame, too, since it has a great main theme (musically).

[Raiders]

Raiders, please talk about Life of Reilly

The man himself is great, but I was left a little unhappy with the film's presentation. It was minimal in its intrusions, but the interviews with people which more than anything elucidates the general lack of knowledge about Reilly, seemed unnecessary. Reilly himself quips about his own obscurity in light of many of his fellow grads of a 1950s acting class, so the message was redundant. I kind of like thinking of him as a fringe-dweller, it adds to the charm of his remarkable and ridiculous life story. His anecdotes and life-as-stage-show mentality are wonderfully genuine, neurotic and hilarious.

Ultimately, as a film, an act of editing a great, brilliant stage show (the original show is three hours - the film, 90 minutes), it is somewhat disappointing. But Reilly makes it well worth watching.

[number8]

That girl mouse is totally hot.

[Rowland]

There is a difference between plot holes and a deliberate mind-fuck.
Complaining about disappearing women in Vertigo is like complaining about disappearing women in L'Avventura or Mulholland Dr.*shrug* Vertigo exists in the real world. Those exist in metaphysical worlds.

[Raiders]

*shrug* Vertigo exists in the real world. Those exist in metaphysical worlds.

They all exist in film worlds. Since when does Antonioni's film give the disclaimer that it does not exist in the "real" world and Hitchcock's film vice-versa?

[Rowland]

They all exist in film worlds. Since when does Antonioni's film give the disclaimer that it does not exist in the "real" world and Hitchcock's film vice-versa?That's just what I surmise. I haven't seen the Antonioni movie in ages, but I do recall it being rather overtly driven by dream logic (or I just didn't get it at the time), whereas Vertigo gives no signs that we aren't supposed to accept it at face value. Heck, the second half goes out of its way to demystify the first half. The first time you watch Vertigo, we accept everything as it comes at us and it's all mysterious and intriguing, but upon repeat viewings, we know that it's all an elaborate deception. As I said, I know it doesn't really matter, but it's difficult not to think about how absurd the whole thing is the more I watch it.

[Raiders]

The first time you watch Vertigo, we accept everything as it comes at you and it's all mysterious and intriguing, but upon repeat viewings, we know that it's all an elaborate ploy.

Is that a negative? I also know that the briefcase means nothing in Pulp Fiction and the Uranium pointless in Notorious. Vertigo's ploy may be to a larger scale, but I don't think the outcome is any different. I find greater joy in the realization that I'm watching a great filmmaker rope me in and finding the ways he deepens the mystery so the second half can be such a shock to my original expectations.

[Rowland]

Is that a negative? I also know that the briefcase means nothing in Pulp Fiction and the Uranium pointless in Notorious. Vertigo's ploy may be to a larger scale, but I don't think the outcome is any different. I find greater joy in the realization that I'm watching a great filmmaker rope me in and finding the ways he deepens the mystery so the second half can be such a shock to my original expectations. Upon repeat viewings, I try to focus on what he's getting at thematically, as there seems to be a fairly sizable number of approaches one can take in analyzing it, increasingly so with each viewing. Well, that and how gorgeous it is to look at and listen to. His mysterious plot machinations grow rather tiresome when taken at face value, especially given how deliberately paced it is.

[megladon8]

I haven't seen Vertigo in nearly two years, but I remember not really understanding it.

What exactly was the big ploy?

[Rowland]

I haven't seen Vertigo in nearly two years, but I remember not really understanding it.

What exactly was the big ploy?You'd probably be better off just seeing the movie again.

[D_Davis]

There is a difference between plot holes and a deliberate mind-fuck.
Complaining about disappearing women in Vertigo is like complaining about disappearing women in L'Avventura or Mulholland Dr.

I agree. I never thought of Vertigo as being some strict take on reality. If anything, the film's greatest strengths lie in its uncanny ability to create a surreal, lucid, and dream-like landscape within the boundaries of a real world setting. I always thought this was the whole point of the film, to show ow the mind can play tricks on itself, see things that aren't there, imagine things that make no sense, and yet still maintain a reasonable amount of sanity. Vertigo shows how fragile our psyches really are.

[ledfloyd]

i just watched ET. what a steaming pile.

[Scar]

i just watched ET. what a steaming pile.

:eek:

[Rowland]

I always thought this was the whole point of the film, to show ow the mind can play tricks on itself, see things that aren't there, imagine things that make no sense, and yet still maintain a reasonable amount of sanity. I didn't get this impression. I see it as being about women as objects in a patriarchal world, and how the discord in what men and women seek in the opposite sex can lead to alienation and suffering... amidst other things. It's a very dense piece.

[MadMan]

:eek:I've encountered hate for the film on one of the other message boards I frequent. I respectively disagree with their opinion....

[DavidSeven]

Vertigo has some of the finest filmmaking I've ever seen, but it's definitely a stupid picture in some senses. The dream-ish aspect of it defintiely isn't played up as much as L'Avventura or Mulholland Dr. This makes some of the outlandish plot elements pretty hard to swallow.

[Spinal]

Vertigo has some of the finest filmmaking I've ever seen, but it's definitely a stupid picture in some senses. The dream-ish aspect of it defintiely isn't played up as much as L'Avventura or Mulholland Dr. This makes some of the outlandish plot elements pretty hard to swallow.

I think it's the difference between a director bringing their own dreamy story to the screen and a director trying to find interesting ways to make someone's else's problematic story work.

[Grouchy]

I tried to like that film. I really did. But I was bored stiff by the flick. There's some good things yes and John Wayne does a fine job with the material. But in the end the movie really is old school "White man defeats noble savages." A more complex, far better film involving racism towards the American Indians and is controversial as a result is The Searchers(1956), which incidentally also sports Wayne's finest and best performance. To me Hondo in the end is a medocre film, one that has some good things but is pretty forgettable overall.
I agree The Searchers is a more complex film, and obviously its importance in film history is bigger, but structurally, it also has more flaws and more dull moments, like the uncannily misplaced comic relief. I'm sticking with Hondo for its near-perfect script as the better movie. I'm not disparaging Searchers, but Ford made movies that were much more powerful and better structured.



I haven't seen Vertigo in nearly two years, but I remember not really understanding it.

What exactly was the big ploy?

I agree with Rowland, you should see it again.

If you don't care to do that, though...

Gavin contacts Scottie Ferguson to spy on his wife Madeleine, but all the time he's really following Gavin's lover Judy in disguise. He falls for this woman and apparently she for him. It's all part of Gavin's plot to kill his wife - Judy takes Scottie to the church and, knowing full well that he suffers from vertigo, climbs to the top. Scottie can't follow and Gavin throws the real Madeleine, neck already broken, from the roof. Then it's a question of how long will Scottie take to find out the truth.

[ledfloyd]

:eek:
i was just ridiculously bored for pretty much the entire film. maybe i'm a heartless bastard. the only part of the film i enjoyed at all was the chase scene. and the first scenes at the house with the kids playing games were mildly entertaining.

i had never seen the film in it's entirety, just a scene here and there on TV, after watching spielberg on spielberg on TCM i thought i should give it a shot. maybe you had to see it when you were elliott's age to appreciate it.

[Grouchy]

The dream-ish aspect of it defintiely isn't played up as much as L'Avventura or Mulholland Dr.
It's played with more subtlety, actually. Instead of the whole film bearing a heavy oniric atmosphere it has the appearance of a detective story that slowly descends into unreality.

[Rowland]

It's played with more subtlety, actually. Instead of the whole film bearing a heavy oniric atmosphere it has the appearance of a detective story that slowly descends into unreality.In the first half, sure. But as I noted, the second half explicitly demystifies and deromanticizes the first half, so it's difficult not to view it through that lens upon repeat viewings.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I'm not a fan of E.T. in the least, a special type of hate reserved for five films applies to it. I think I promised someone I'd see it again to re-evaluate my thoughts on it, but I don't feel like doing that any time soon.

[Spinal]

I've seen E.T. both as a child and as an adult and thought it worked wonderfully both times.

[Raiders]

I've seen E.T. both as a child and as an adult and thought it worked wonderfully both times.

Indeed.

[jesse]

Bah, the R4 Cassavetes box set has no special features aside from a doco and an essay booklet. Should've just got the UK or Criterion versions instead... but the low price beckoned.

Plus, the booklet has two insightful pieces by people the same age as me. Makes me jealous. :evil: Is Matthew Clayfield one of the writers?

[Watashi]

How can anyone hate E.T.?

He's just so gosh-darn loveable. :sad:

[Scar]

I've seen E.T. both as a child and as an adult and thought it worked wonderfully both times.

I concur.

[lovejuice]

Children of Paradise (Marcel Carné, 1945)

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/EdwardCopeland/foreign/children_of_paradise.jpg



that sir is one of my favorite films of all time. i actually name my first novel after it.

i've never really really liked E.T., but i always find the fact that not so long ago it used to be the highest grossing film of all time absolutely awesome. (in fact it's reigned the box office record for quite a long while.)

[Raiders]

I initially attributed my emotional response to Adrienne Shelly's Waitress to the knowledge of her horrible, tragic death just prior to the film's release. But I don't think it is that simple. Shelly's film may be a little quirkier than necessary, but it is a quirk offset by a remarkably sensitive approach to the fears of becoming a mother. There is an underlying sadness to Keri Russell's character that seems to be rooted in the (somewhat improbable) lack of femininity or freedom she feels or receives from her life (her mentally abusive husband, her dead-end job and now her unborn child). Some may pinpoint the focus on pie-making as a reductive anti-feminist ideal (she becomes free when baking), but the film very much links the artistic freedom and boundless imagination to her individuality that has been squashed by her husband's need to make himself the center of her world. Her affair with the new local gynecologist makes her feel wanted and beautiful at a time when she grows less comfortable with herself and her body each and every day. The scene where she teaches him how to bake is a beautiful and touching moment of an artist sharing her craft with the one person who can appreciate it (not for its flavor as everyone does, but for the care and individuality of its creation).

The ending is perhaps a little bit of a fairytale, but it nonetheless goes the only route imaginable. Besides, Shelly's dedication to Russell's scrumptious pie creations makes way for the realization of her character of her most glorious creation, a human life.

[megladon8]

Um...I'm a little surprised by how graphic Caligula is.

I know it has an infamous reputation...but I didn't realize how freaking graphic it is.

It's porn, pure and simple.

It was on TV last night and theres a scene where a guy is getting oral from two women and it shows everything. That was pretty unexpected.

So I threw on some Lois & Clark.

[Yxklyx]

Um...I'm a little surprised by how graphic Caligula is.

I know it has an infamous reputation...but I didn't realize how freaking graphic it is.

It's porn, pure and simple.

It was on TV last night and theres a scene where a guy is getting oral from two women and it shows everything. That was pretty unexpected.

So I threw on some Lois & Clark.

Is it more graphic than Shortbus?

[megladon8]

Is it more graphic than Shortbus?


I haven't seen Shortbus.

But the one scene I saw was a guy getting a BJ from two women, and then ejaculating in one of their mouths.

[chrisnu]

Caligula was on TV? :eek: How is that possible?

[megladon8]

Caligula was on TV? :eek: How is that possible?


I have satellite.

[chrisnu]

I have satellite.
Ah, ok. I thought someone spiked the water cooler at the FCC office.

[megladon8]

Ah, ok. I thought someone spiked the water cooler at the FCC office.


Well my 5 minute experience with the film taught me one thing for certain.

Lois & Clark >>> Caligula

[Watashi]

Lois & Clark is terrible.

[Spinal]

That scene was added to Caligula by Bob Guccione against the wishes of the original director.

[Qrazy]

I don't think it's possible to dust fabric for fingerprints.


Ah, well that makes sense... although I'd guess it would depend on the fabric... could probably pull off silk, no?

[Mal]

Is it more graphic than Shortbus?

Shortbus doesn't have castration, decapitations, and anal rape

So that would be a yes.

[megladon8]

Lois & Clark is terrible.


I love it.

Nothing like childhood nostalgia.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I haven't watched any films in a while, because I've been so busy with school work. It's really a major bummer. I half watched Dr. No yesterday, but I can't really call it a viewing as I was half doing other things. What I did see I liked though, and will probably pick it up sometime in the near future. Also caught the beginning of From Russia with Love, which I've already seen, and it makes me want to revisit it. I still have a lot of Bond films to see, but I'm not sure if there are that many "great" ones left that I've missed. Outside Goldfinger, From Russia with Love, Dr. No, Goldeneye and Casino Royale, any Bond films that are really worth seeing.

[Eleven]

Outside Goldfinger, From Russia with Love, Dr. No, Goldeneye and Casino Royale, any Bond films that are really worth seeing.

I personally like On Her Majesty's Secret Service, The Spy who Loved Me, and For Your Eyes Only, along with soft spots for You Only Live Twice and Live and Let Die, which are harder to defend on non-nostalgia grounds.

[megladon8]

I would probably rank all the Bond films - from best to worst - as follows...

From Russia With Love
Goldeneye
Dr. No
Casino Royale ('06)
Thunderball
The Spy Who Loved Me
Diamonds Are Forever
The Living Daylights
For Your Eyes Only
Licence to Kil
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Goldfinger
Tomorrow Never Dies
The Man With the Golden Gun
The World is Not Enough
Octopussy
Live and Let Die
A View to a Kill
Moonraker
Never Say Never Again
You Only Live Twice
Casino Royale ('67)
Die Another Day

[Boner M]

Is Matthew Clayfield one of the writers?
Yeah. It's just a reprint of his Opening Night review from sensesofcinema.

I visit his blog every now and then, though he seems to write increasingly less about film. He's been covering the Australian election for the last few months.

[Ezee E]

Hmm... Not sure how long it'll last, but The Diving Bell and the Butterfly is now the highest rated movie of the year on Metacritic. It beats out No Country For Old Men by a point.

[Rowland]

Hitchcock's Family Plot is better than I anticipated. Considering that it was his last movie, the mischievous old man still had a lot of spunk. I need to explore more of his late-career work; the latest I've seen before now was The Birds, which I just rewatched last night, and it's still amazing.

[Watashi]

the latest I've seen before now was The Birds, which I just rewatched last night, and it's still amazing.

Rep for thou.

The Birds is my personal favorite Hitchcock.

[lovejuice]

The Man With the Golden Gun


interesting. i'm always under the impression that you don't think too highly of it. it's in fact among my favorite along with golden eye and The Spy Who Loved Me.

and sadly i can't get on this new Casino Royale band wagon.

like
Goldeneye
Dr. No
The Spy Who Loved Me
The Living Daylights
For Your Eyes Only
The Man With the Golden Gun
The World is Not Enough
Never Say Never Again

dislike
Casino Royale ('06)
Thunderball
Licence to Kill
On Her Majesty's Secret Service (my least favorite bond's)
Tomorrow Never Dies
Octopussy
Live and Let Die
Moonraker
You Only Live Twice
Die Another Day

[Sven]

Hitchcock's Family Plot is better than I anticipated. Considering that it was his last movie, the mischievous old man still had a lot of spunk. I need to explore more of his late-career work; the latest I've seen before now was The Birds, which I just rewatched last night, and it's still amazing.

And I'm repping for the pro-Family Plot stance. One of my favorites, truthfully.

[balmakboor]

I'll always have a special place for Family Plot. It is the only Hitchcock film I saw in first release.

I once read that Hitchcock's career was all downhill after Psycho. I think that The Birds and Marnie are better films though and possibly more complex. I also think that Frenzy is ridiculously entertaining.

[Eleven]

I still stand by Frenzy as the late-period, post-Birds masterpiece, although I like Family Plot, especially the four leads. Dern is so goshdarn Dernian.

[balmakboor]

I stuck my Paprika thoughts on my blog a little while ago. In a nutshell, I really liked it.

[Sycophant]

I stuck my Paprika thoughts on my blog a little while ago. In a nutshell, I really liked it.
Nice write-up. The interplay of archetypes in Paprika is truly fascinating. And love, love that ending.

Also, I'm glad you liked the overall visuals of the film. It obviously isn't the same expressionistic use of the medium that Studio 4 Degrees Celsius utilizes, but its intent is different. Studio Madhouse has done nothing but impress me with their work on Kon's films.

[Sycophant]

Guess which Hong Kong director is going back into the well of used ideas? According to Ming Pao, Stephen Chow announced that he will be making not one, but two movies based on the Journey to the West story that he and Jeff Lau used for the Chinese Odyssey films. The article, which I will not be translating word-for-word, says that like the earlier films, he'll be making a two-part film that is now possible thanks to the ability of computer graphics. He also said that he will be sticking closer to the source material, unlike the Chinese Odyssey films, which were only loosely based on it. One reason that he's going back to Journey to the West again is that the Chinese Odyssey films were considered his breakthrough work in Mainland China, where they thought the comedy in his earlier films did not translate well to Mandarin.

Like the columnist points out, when is Chow going back to movies WITHOUT computer graphics?
Wild.

[Melville]

I just watched Denis' Friday Night, and it was magnificent. I'll probably write something more detailed later.

[MacGuffin]

I just watched Denis' Friday Night, and it was magnificent. I'll probably write something more detailed later.

That's it: I'm revisiting this one.

[Melville]

That's it: I'm revisiting this one.
What did you dislike about it the first time? It's definitely my favorite Denis film as of now (having not seen L'Intrus), but I can easily imagine someone liking something like Beau Travail and disliking something like Friday Night. It's almost a more schematic, visually-driven version of Lost in Translation.

[Qrazy]

I'll always have a special place for Family Plot. It is the only Hitchcock film I saw in first release.

I once read that Hitchcock's career was all downhill after Psycho. I think that The Birds and Marnie are better films though and possibly more complex. I also think that Frenzy is ridiculously entertaining.

Agree that The Birds is as good if not better than Psycho. I have little patience for Marnie though.

[balmakboor]

Agree that The Birds is as good if not better than Psycho. I have little patience for Marnie though.

Robin Wood (the Hitchcock's Films Revisited guy) considers Marnie not only his favorite Hitchcock, but one of his top 10 films period. I wish I could read his current thoughts on it though. His chapter on it in the above book was written in the 60s and he's been through a lot since then.

I've always found it fascinating and beautiful myself. It's been too long since my last look to comment any deeper though.

[MacGuffin]

What did you dislike about it the first time? It's definitely my favorite Denis film as of now (having not seen L'Intrus), but I can easily imagine someone liking something like Beau Travail and disliking something like Friday Night. It's almost a more schematic, visually-driven version of Lost in Translation.

I didn't think it had really anything to say about the relationship, and the characters didn't really change. But I'm beginning to think I looked to far into the relationship to see that Paris was far more of a character than either the man or the woman if only because it was the energy behind their relationship. If this story was told in Texas, I imagine it'd be the worst movie ever made. But because it takes place in Paris, there's something there and I don't know why. There's just something about foreign film directors (outside of the United States, most notably in Taiwan or France) and their ability to convey the setting as much as a character than any of the human beings onscreen. Wes Anderson seems to be doing this too, but he takes the L'Intrus approach, and uses the settings as a sort of time line. I'm particularly looking at how Denis used the change of seasons to mark emotional changes in her film and how Anderson used the musical montages to mark emotional changes in his film.

[Melville]

I didn't think it had really anything to say about the relationship, and the characters didn't really change.
This is certainly true, and it's what I was suggesting when I said the film is schematic. I don't think it has much to say about these particular characters or their particular relationship. It's all about the general nature of the event, and, as you say, the environment in which it occurs.

[Spinal]

... the characters didn't really change.

I don't agree with this at all. The lead female has a rather extraordinary personal journey.

[Melville]

This is certainly true.


I don't agree with this at all.
:lol:


I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. What extraordinary journey do you think she went on?


Edited to disassociate my laughing smiley from my question to Spinal.

[MacGuffin]

This is certainly true, and it's what I was suggesting when I said the film is schematic. I don't think it has much to say about these particular characters or their particular relationship. It's all about the general nature of the event, and, as you say, the environment in which it occurs.

Aside from this, I'm also giving Last Year in Marienbad another try for the same reasons. I am interested in reading your more extensive thoughts for Friday Night when and if you feel like posting them.

[MacGuffin]

I don't agree with this at all. The lead female has a rather extraordinary personal journey.

I don't think it was spiritual, if that's what you're implying.

[Spinal]

The film is not (just) about the relationship we see on screen. It's about the relationship that awaits the woman after the events of the film are over.

Further thoughts. (http://filmepidemic.blogspot.com/search?q=friday+night)

[MacGuffin]

The film is not (just) about the relationship we see on screen. It's about the relationship that awaits the woman after the events of the film are over.

Further thoughts. (http://filmepidemic.blogspot.com/search?q=friday+night)

Thanks. I'll make a (possibly incomprehensible) response after I rewatching the film with my thoughts about it, and perhaps, your essay, depending on whether I end up changing my mind about the film and agreeing with you, or disagreeing.

[dreamdead]

Yeah, I second Spinal's thoughts. Just because the film doesn't have the sociopolitical context of something like Beau Travail or L'Intrus doesn't mean that Friday Night should be routinely dismissed as minor Denis. FN is a meticulous study of the female psyche through an almost entirely cinematic (rather than verbal) focus, and so much of the film's internal conflict derives from the lead's face. And the face in the final moment contains fathoms.

[Spinal]

And the face in the final moment contains fathoms.

Yes. I think that moment alone tells us just how much change has occurred with this character.

I think I should probably raise that ***1/2 to a ****. This film has lingered with me very nicely.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I personally like On Her Majesty's Secret Service, The Spy who Loved Me, and For Your Eyes Only, along with soft spots for You Only Live Twice and Live and Let Die, which are harder to defend on non-nostalgia grounds.
Argh, I have seen OHMSS. I like it quite a bit, although I think it doesn't live up to it's potential. Predictably Rigg is my favourite Bond girl EVA.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Hitchcock's Family Plot is better than I anticipated. Considering that it was his last movie, the mischievous old man still had a lot of spunk. I need to explore more of his late-career work; the latest I've seen before now was The Birds, which I just rewatched last night, and it's still amazing.
Family Plot is the only Hitch' film I outright dislike, but I owe it a rewatch as perhaps my cinematic palette has changed in four years. I do love The Birds and Marnie though. Especially Marnie.

[Duncan]

I don't think I'll ever understand why The Birds is considered a masterpiece.

[megladon8]

I don't think I'll ever understand why The Birds is considered a masterpiece.


Me either.

It's mostly the effects...they really take me out of the whole movie.

[Melville]

Aside from this, I'm also giving Last Year in Marienbad another try for the same reasons. I am interested in reading your more extensive thoughts for Friday Night when and if you feel like posting them.
Well, I'll probably never get around to writing a full review, so here's a summary of what I liked:

The visual strategy throughout was marvelous, creating an amazing sense of texture and involvement by filling the frame with faces, hands, and small physical details, shooting the traffic jam from slightly low angles, letting an over-the-shoulder shot be dominated by the back of a character's head, and so on. In particular, I loved the contrast between the extremely dense images (cluttered blue rooftops with red chimneys foreshadowing a traffic jam of bluish cars with red brake lights) before the beginning of the love affair and the swayingly romantic cinematography afterwards. The early images create such a strong sense of worldly boundedness, and there is a sudden liberation after the man enters the woman's car. Instantly the focus shifts from shots of the traffic jam, and of people's faces through their car windshields, to shots of the woman's legs as she stretches, the man's hands as he scratches his collarbone. This change in emphasis mirrors the main character's shifting sense of herself: the shots from the outside, through her foggy windshield, evoke her sense of being trapped within the situation, trapped by the contingencies of her social role and her environment; as soon as the man enters, her focus is on the Other, both on his bodily presence and on her self-awareness of her own body within his presence—the external situation dissolves into the background of this new scene. After this initial shift we get a second shift, as suddenly the camera looks out from within the car, rather than endlessly looking inwards: now the perspective is that of the man and woman together; they are looking out from their (at least temporarily) united perspective on the broader situation; the perspective on this external situation is no longer one of entrapment, but that of an uninvolved gaze newly interested in the "outside." This visual evolution continues throughout the movie, but I'll stop my description of it here.

The second thing I loved about the film was how the visual (and audio) strategy tied into the the general structure of the film. A woman is in the midst of moving, and for a brief moment this places her outside the realm of her everyday self and its obligations. (It's like Heart of Darkness or Lawrence of Arabia writ small.) In her love affair, she takes this momentary lack of fixity as an opportunity to discover the Other in his uniqueness. Of course, love in general wrenches one away from broad everyday social and personal structures into the bewildering and overpowering presence of the Other—and the story of the film encapsulates this movement, though, again, it is writ small. The way that the cinematography evokes and mirrors this movement, and its conclusion with the lead character re-engaging in the world with renewed perspective, is entrancing.

[Melville]

I guess that turned out to be pretty close to a full (if disorganized) review. I'll check out your thoughts now, Spinal.

[origami_mustache]

Me either.

It's mostly the effects...they really take me out of the whole movie.

I have to agree with this. I mean I understand and respect all of the cold war and feminist subtextual analysis, among other things, and in terms of sound design there is much to admire, but the artificiality of some of Hitchcock's films tend to annoy me, not to mention the absurdity of the whole plot in general. Obviously the bird effects, corny as they seem today, were pretty groundbreaking at the time and it's unfair to criticize out of context of the period. I'm more distracted by his use of backdrops and blue-screen rather than shooting on location which he commonly employed throughout his career.

[MadMan]

I don't think I'll ever understand why The Birds is considered a masterpiece.Same here. I think its pretty damn good but nothing compared to some of Hitchcock's other works. And I'd place Psycho above it despite the stupid explanation scene that got stuck in the film. But I think even without it Psycho just didn't have the stuff to be a great film-but I'll take a very good film in this case.

[Rowland]

Family Plot is the only Hitch' film I outright dislike, but I owe it a rewatch as perhaps my cinematic palette has changed in four years. I do love The Birds and Marnie though. Especially Marnie.There isn't really very much to Family Plot from a cinematic standpoint (besides the spectacular set piece on the winding downhill road), but it has a relaxed vibe to it that is quite pleasurable if you get into it, the script is deviously satirical and funny, and the cast is natural and amiable.

[Duncan]

I have to agree with this. I mean I understand and respect all of the cold war and feminist subtextual analysis, among other things, and in terms of sound design there is much to admire, but the artificiality of some of Hitchcock's films tend to annoy me, not to mention the absurdity of the whole plot in general. Obviously the bird effects, corny as they seem today, were pretty groundbreaking at the time and it's unfair to criticize out of context of the period. I'm more distracted by his use of backdrops and blue-screen rather than shooting on location which he commonly employed throughout his career.

How does the Cold War subtext work?

[Melville]

The film is not (just) about the relationship we see on screen. It's about the relationship that awaits the woman after the events of the film are over.

Further thoughts. (http://filmepidemic.blogspot.com/search?q=friday+night)
I like your line about the film being covered in a light haze. It's amazing how much atmosphere the film creates just by shooting through wet, foggy windshields and car exhausts.

[Qrazy]

Neither Frenzy or The Birds are masterpieces for me. The man has four... maybe five masterpieces.

39 Steps
Strangers on a Train
Vertigo
Rear Window

And the fifth is interchangeable between about 3 of his other films, which don't quite reach the other four.

[MadMan]

I've seen only 9-10 films from Hitchcock, but to me the only masterpieces I've seen from him are Vertigo and Rear Window. I still have a long ways to go with his work....

[Qrazy]

Imamura's Insect Woman was very good, but I could have done without nearly the entire score and the freeze frames. A few of the freeze frame moments work but about 80 percent do exactly what you'd expect a freeze to do, which is stall and derail the forward momentum of the film.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I'm not a huge fan of the term "masterpiece" but Hitch's best of the best for me are,
Rear Window
Notorious
The 39 Steps
Marnie
Shadow of a Doubt

[Qrazy]

I fart in Marnie's general direction.

[origami_mustache]

How does the Cold War subtext work?

1963 was the year of the Cuban Missile Crisis. It was a time of fear in American History, as the threat of a nuclear attack from Soviet Russia was not far fetched. The birds, like Godzilla before them, embody this monstrous threat of death, destruction, and ultimately the end of the world.

[Melville]

1963 was the year of the Cuban Missile Crisis. It was a time of fear in American History, as the threat of a nuclear attack from Soviet Russia was not far fetched. The birds, like Godzilla before them, embody this monstrous threat of death, destruction, and ultimately the end of the world.
Hm... that's kinda lame. Kinda really lame.

[Rowland]

The Birds is as brilliant an exercise in deceptively simple storytelling minimalism as it is an astonishingly rigorous and artful work of pure formalist cinema. The damn thing is so beautifully realized...

[Duncan]

Hm... that's kinda lame. Kinda really lame.

Yeah.

[Rowland]

Hm... that's kinda lame. Kinda really lame.Volumes have been written on what the birds can theoretically stand for as allegorical manifestations. You can pick and choose your favorites. :)

[Duncan]

Volumes have been written on what the birds can theoretically stand for as allegorical manifestations. You can pick and choose your favorites. :)

None of them change the fact that the movie is about a bunch of birds flapping around pecking at people. Least frightening concept ever, no matter what allegorical context you view it in.

[Rowland]

None of them change the fact that the movie is about a bunch of birds flapping around pecking at people. Least frightening concept ever, no matter what allegorical context you view it in.*shrug*

[origami_mustache]

Hm... that's kinda lame. Kinda really lame.

How is that lame? I'm sure every academic work on the film brings it up.

[Qrazy]

None of them change the fact that the movie is about a bunch of birds flapping around pecking at people. Least frightening concept ever, no matter what allegorical context you view it in.

Birds can fuck you up man. Although an insect movie would have been better.

[origami_mustache]

Note the uses of the color red throughout haha.

[Qrazy]

Note the uses of the color red throughout haha.

That's what I had to do for film class in high school with In the Heat of the Night...

[lovejuice]

wow, blood brothers is bad. it's pretty much like they gang up a buncha new blood, wannabe, and amature in hong konk cinema, and have them work on this concept. the story has zero connection to bullet in the head. i've never liked that one much, but now i appreciate it more.

[Bosco B Thug]

Thhheeee Biiiiirrrrrrrddddddsssss. <3 <3 <3 <3... 3>

[Rowland]

Note the uses of the color red throughout haha.What a clever way to undermine the formal integrity of a movie so as to feign superiority over it for the sake of social posturing. I mean, like seriously, red! :lol:

;)

[origami_mustache]

What a clever way to undermine the formal integrity of a movie so as to feign superiority over it for the sake of social posturing. I mean, like seriously, red! :lol:

;)

Wait, I have a better argument.
Hitchcock was a hack.

[Sycophant]

wow, blood brothers is bad. it's pretty much like they gang up a buncha new blood, wannabe, and amature in hong konk cinema, and have them work on this concept. the story has zero connection to bullet in the head. i've never liked that one much, but now i appreciate it more.That's sad. I was really excited about this one, too (though tepid reviews have tempered my anticipation). Guess I won't be ordering it any time soon.

Meanwhile, I popped in Desperado primarily because I wanted something fairly light and figured things blowing up might be a benefit. However, I was actually really let down by it. It was pretty unthrilling, even less so than the mediocre El Mariachi--at least that one had kind of a delicious punk rock ethic to it. I may have to go back and look at some of the other Rodriguez films that I liked and see if it's true what some people say, that he can't structure a film/story. He certainly missed the mark here.

Is Once Upon a Time in Mexico at least better?

[number8]

So I finally saw the full FPS scene from DOOM on YouTube tonight for whatever reason.

I have never seen anything dumber.

[number8]

Is Once Upon a Time in Mexico at least better?

It's generally considered the worst of the three, which I agree with, but I still dug it. I'd like to see a spin-off with Johnny Depp's character. It'd be like Zatoichi: The Early Years.

[lovejuice]

Is Once Upon a Time in Mexico at least better?

OUaTiM is actually my favorite of the series. but unlike most people here, i'm an all around rodriguez's fan.

[Rowland]

Wait, I have a better argument.
Hitchcock was a hack.That's it. You've won the internet.

Your new look is sexy, btw. :cool:

[origami_mustache]

That's it. You've won the internet.

Your new look is sexy, btw. :cool:

hahaha
thank you kind sir.
(curtsies)

[Rowland]

OUaTiM is my favorite of the series as well, which is one hell of a minority opinion, I know. I wouldn't even try very hard to defend it on any normal grounds, but there is something hard to place that I find charming about it. Depp is a lot of fun of course, as is the rest of the (underutilized) cast. Its chief flaws are structural, so if that's what turned you off most about Desperado, Sycophant, I imagine you'd feel the same about this.

[Spinal]

Volumes have been written on what the birds can theoretically stand for as allegorical manifestations. You can pick and choose your favorites. :)

I choose venereal disease. I think the birds represent syphilis.

[Sycophant]

Well, I think I'll check out OUaTiM, as though I was bothered by the lack of structure (especially the unceremonious and clumsy entry and departure of characters), my chief complaint was with the fact that it just wasn't too thrilling.

[number8]

The Mariachi trilogy is really best described as an action trilogy that keeps upping its budget. It's interesting to see how the money changes the feel of the movies despite them all using the exact same aesthetic.

El Mariachi is a blaxpoitation movie with Mexicans. Desperado is a comedic John Woo movie with Mexicans. OUaTiM is Torque with Mexicans.

[Qrazy]

That's sad. I was really excited about this one, too (though tepid reviews have tempered my anticipation). Guess I won't be ordering it any time soon.

Meanwhile, I popped in Desperado primarily because I wanted something fairly light and figured things blowing up might be a benefit. However, I was actually really let down by it. It was pretty unthrilling, even less so than the mediocre El Mariachi--at least that one had kind of a delicious punk rock ethic to it. I may have to go back and look at some of the other Rodriguez films that I liked and see if it's true what some people say, that he can't structure a film/story. He certainly missed the mark here.

Is Once Upon a Time in Mexico at least better?

Probably the worst of the three. And the other two are terrible, so now you know where that leaves the third.

[Rowland]

I choose venereal disease. I think the birds represent syphilis.A fair analysis. After all, I don't think any of the birds were wearing rubbers while raping Tippi in the attic. I could be mistaken.

[origami_mustache]

I choose venereal disease. I think the birds represent syphilis.

It's such a racist film...I mean c'mon BLACK birds!

[Rowland]

OUaTiM is Torque with Mexicans.And Mexican'ts.

[Sven]

There isn't really very much to Family Plot from a cinematic standpoint (besides the spectacular set piece on the winding downhill road), but it has a relaxed vibe to it that is quite pleasurable if you get into it, the script is deviously satirical and funny, and the cast is natural and amiable.

I think I disagree about your cinematic comment, as I remember more technique from this film than I do some of his more illustrious work (ie, Rebecca, Notorious, North by Northwest, Strangers on a Train, etc).

Oh yeah, and Barbara Harris is a honey.

[Rowland]

I remember more technique from this film than I do some of his more illustrious work (ie, Rebecca, Notorious, North by Northwest, Strangers on a Train, etc).Really? That's interesting... I mean, I wouldn't say it's flatly directed or anything, just that it doesn't feel as exacting. Maybe it's just that I was enjoying the characters too much to notice. And yes, Barbara Harris was adorable. The way she whined for another hamburger ("I'll eat it in the car!") had me smitten.

[Boner M]

I enjoyed the hell out of Shaolin Soccer until the fact that there wasn't really much at stake made the sight of endless CGI-aided balletics rather wearisome. Spirited enough to leave a pleasant aftertaste, but not nearly as much fun as Kung-Fu Hustle.

[Doclop]

Saw Charlie Wilson's War last night. Pretty bad. It's too short, too fast-paced or, more to the point, not fleshed out enough. It seems to happily skim the surface, attempting depth, but sabotages itself with weak characterizations and hollow dialogue. I really think there's a good story buried in there, but it needs an entirely new treatment. The cast was fine, took awhile to get used to Julia Roberts and The Accent, but I liked the dynamic between Tom Hanks, Amy Adams, and Wilson's other assistants (Charlie's Angels). My friend thought it felt like a documentary, which is completely baffling to me.

A big step down from Closer, I'd say.

[lovejuice]

I enjoyed the hell out of Shaolin Soccer until the fact that there wasn't really much at stake made the sight of endless CGI-aided balletics rather wearisome. Spirited enough to leave a pleasant aftertaste, but not nearly as much fun as Kung-Fu Hustle.

i actually prefer SS to KFH. i can't give a good reason except that SS's quirkiness is more, in my eyes, authentic of hong kong cinema. KFH feels like Chow borrows from a number of sources.

[Briare]

Saw Charlie Wilson's War last night. Pretty bad. It's too short, too fast-paced or, more to the point, not fleshed out enough. It seems to happily skim the surface, attempting depth, but sabotages itself with weak characterizations and hollow dialogue. I really think there's a good story buried in there, but it needs an entirely new treatment. The cast was fine, took awhile to get used to Julia Roberts and The Accent, but I liked the dynamic between Tom Hanks, Amy Adams, and Wilson's other assistants (Charlie's Angels). My friend thought it felt like a documentary, which is completely baffling to me.

A big step down from Closer, I'd say.

For some reason I find this incredibly disappointing.

[Li Lili]

I enjoyed the hell out of Shaolin Soccer until the fact that there wasn't really much at stake made the sight of endless CGI-aided balletics rather wearisome. Spirited enough to leave a pleasant aftertaste, but not nearly as much fun as Kung-Fu Hustle.

I found Shaolin Soccer better, more fun and silliness. KF Hustle was a good comedy and perhaps a bit more accessible though.


I finally watched The End of Violence... So long since I last watched a Western film, and I was quite disappointed by it, disappointed for a Cronenberg film, there was nothing that usually stands out from his films/

Otherwise, I saw many films in a film festival, not as many as I usually watched. Among them, I saw the latest Lee Kang-sheng's film (actor in Tsai Ming-liang's films) : Help Me Eros. Very influenced by Tsai's direction and greatly shot, however, I found it less powerful and less moving, A bit sober would perhaps give more strength. In a way, I prefered The Missing, his first film, very minimalist, eve, though to close to a Tsai's film.

[Sycophant]

Yeah. While I love botho films, I prefer Shaolin Soccer to Kung Fu Hustle, primarily for its sheer exuberance and silliness. I wonder if it isn't the last truly mo lei tau film we'll see from Chow.

[baby doll]

I also liked Shaolin Soccer more than Kung Fu Hustle, but I think that's largely because I saw it first.

[Rowland]

*raises hand* I liked SS more than KFH as well. It made me laugh more. *shrug*

[baby doll]

*raises hand* I liked SS more than KFH as well. It made me laugh more. *shrug*It made me laugh, period.

[MadMan]

Saw Charlie Wilson's War last night. Pretty bad. It's too short, too fast-paced or, more to the point, not fleshed out enough. It seems to happily skim the surface, attempting depth, but sabotages itself with weak characterizations and hollow dialogue. I really think there's a good story buried in there, but it needs an entirely new treatment. The cast was fine, took awhile to get used to Julia Roberts and The Accent, but I liked the dynamic between Tom Hanks, Amy Adams, and Wilson's other assistants (Charlie's Angels). My friend thought it felt like a documentary, which is completely baffling to me.

A big step down from Closer, I'd say.I'm actually questioning whether I want to see this movie now, if only because the film does indeed glamorize a man who helped arm people who later on decided to attack us. But in the end I've decided to check out appears to be a neo-con fantasy. Plus I'm a fan of Tom Hanks.


The Mariachi trilogy is really best described as an action trilogy that keeps upping its budget. It's interesting to see how the money changes the feel of the movies despite them all using the exact same aesthetic.

El Mariachi is a blaxpoitation movie with Mexicans. Desperado is a comedic John Woo movie with Mexicans. OUaTiM is Torque with Mexicans.Heh that's an interesting take on the series. And it may also explain why I liked the first film so much. I for one love the series and all of the films in it although the first and third get only an 8.0 from me and the third gets a 7.5. To me they're an interesting body of action films, if only because of their style and the sort of mythical aspect of the main character that is straight out of a spaghetti's western.


It's generally considered the worst of the three, which I agree with, but I still dug it. I'd like to see a spin-off with Johnny Depp's character. It'd be like Zatoichi: The Early Years.Hell yeah that would rock.


That's sad. I was really excited about this one, too (though tepid reviews have tempered my anticipation). Guess I won't be ordering it any time soon.

Meanwhile, I popped in Desperado primarily because I wanted something fairly light and figured things blowing up might be a benefit. However, I was actually really let down by it. It was pretty unthrilling, even less so than the mediocre El Mariachi--at least that one had kind of a delicious punk rock ethic to it. I may have to go back and look at some of the other Rodriguez films that I liked and see if it's true what some people say, that he can't structure a film/story. He certainly missed the mark here.

Is Once Upon a Time in Mexico at least better?Once Upon a Time in Mexico is indeed better, although I don't know if you will enjoy its access and large epic scope as much as I did.
I for one actually though El Mariachi was the best, as it was the most tightly paced and effective part of the trilogy. I like Desperado a lot but its the weakest of the series, and the third act is pretty mediocre.

[Li Lili]

Yeah. While I love botho films, I prefer Shaolin Soccer to Kung Fu Hustle, primarily for its sheer exuberance and silliness. I wonder if it isn't the last truly mo lei tau film we'll see from Chow.

Yes, I wonder how his sci-fi will turn out... If I recall there will be KFH 2 and a new Journey to the West...
There were a time I used to watch and enjoy very much his films.

[Qrazy]

I'm actually questioning whether I want to see this movie now, if only because the film does indeed glamorize a man who helped arm people who later on decided to attack us.

That's a pretty silly reason.

[Sven]

A big step down from Closer, I'd say.

Must be pretty freakin' bad, then.

[Sven]

I'm with the Bone-man... KFH is much better than SS, if only because of the unpredictable element. I like both, but it always makes me sad when I'm watching a movie that pans out exactly the way I think it's going to, wonderful gags or no. KFH has a wilder, more intricate imagination.

[monolith94]

That's sad. I was really excited about this one, too (though tepid reviews have tempered my anticipation). Guess I won't be ordering it any time soon.

Meanwhile, I popped in Desperado primarily because I wanted something fairly light and figured things blowing up might be a benefit. However, I was actually really let down by it. It was pretty unthrilling, even less so than the mediocre El Mariachi--at least that one had kind of a delicious punk rock ethic to it. I may have to go back and look at some of the other Rodriguez films that I liked and see if it's true what some people say, that he can't structure a film/story. He certainly missed the mark here.

Is Once Upon a Time in Mexico at least better?
I liked OUATIM better than Desperado, but not as much as El Mariachi.

Why do I like El Mariachi the best of the bunch?

It feels more intimate. It feels more adventuresome. I found the lead actor much more relatable than Antonio Banderas. The lead actress actually looked like a real woman, as oppossed to Salma Hayek, who looks so very hollywood. I thought it had better humor. The action scenes seemed more tense. Just, everything about it seemed more honest, more sincere than either of the other two movies in the trilogy.

[Sycophant]

Yes, I wonder how his sci-fi will turn out... If I recall there will be KFH 2 and a new Journey to the West...
There were a time I used to watch and enjoy very much his films.Word. I think he's directed and starred in some of the best comedies of all time. Considering that A Chinese Odyssey parts 1 and 2 are favorites of mine, I wonder how the intervening 13 years (and loss of Jeff Lau as collaborator) will affect his take on the story. He's certainly changed some.

[MadMan]

That's a pretty silly reason.Normally I don't mention politics when it comes to movies, but in the case of Charlie Wilson's War politics apply. Thanks to Wilson and the Regan Administration we are dealing with serious blowback in the form of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. Thus I must question whether or not I should go and support a movie that glorifies Wilson selling arms to Afghan guerrillas, many which years down the road turned around and supported and aided Bin Ladden, gave him safe haven, and enabled him to attack the United States. So no I don't really think is a silly reason.

That said I'm going on Doclop's word here about the film, plus the film's trailer, which isn't much but is better than nothing. I'll wait and see what more reviewers say, but as I said earlier I'm really wavering about going to see it.

[Winston*]

Two-Lane Blacktop is pretty great. Love that ending.

[number8]

I've watched SS a lot more than KFH, simply because it's funnier.

[Li Lili]

Word. I think he's directed and starred in some of the best comedies of all time. Considering that A Chinese Odyssey parts 1 and 2 are favorites of mine, I wonder how the intervening 13 years (and loss of Jeff Lau as collaborator) will affect his take on the story. He's certainly changed some.
Yes, I remember very well Chinese Odyssey, and especially liked very much the part 2. I also liked the one with Tony Leung and Faye Wong.
But, the newest one, A Chinese Tall Story, by Jeff Lau with Nicholas Tse was very bad though. Too much special effects and very low comedy.

[kamran]

Katherine Heigl regrets doing Knocked Up, calling it sexist and unbalanced in portraying women. (http://www.mollygood.com/vanity-fair/heigl-says-knocked-up-sexist-20071203/)

Usually, artists only feel comfortable criticizing their movies/projects when they have failed at the box office or have been poorly received by the critics. So it's a nice surprise to see Heigl say these things despite the film doing so well. Right on.

[Spinal]

Katherine Heigl regrets doing Knocked Up, calling it sexist and unbalanced in portraying women. (http://www.mollygood.com/vanity-fair/heigl-says-knocked-up-sexist-20071203/)

Usually, artists only feel comfortable criticizing their movies/projects when they have failed at the box office or have been poorly received by the critics. So it's a nice surprise to see Heigl say these things despite the film doing so well. Right on.

That article is pretty insulting towards her, insinuating that she can't have an opinion about the project just because she accepted money to be in it.

[kamran]

That article is pretty insulting towards her, insinuating that she can't have an opinion about the project just because she accepted money to be in it.

I didn't like that about the write-up either, but it does make me wonder why she didn't pick up on the problematic elements when she initially read the screenplay.

[Sycophant]

But, the newest one, A Chinese Tall Story, by Jeff Lau with Nicholas Tse was very bad though. Too much special effects and very low comedy.
I wouldn't go as far as "very bad." There were some gags that worked really, really well for me, despite the fact that, overall, the movie was pretty stupid and its CG looked like in-game renders from a PlayStation game.

[Rowland]

The thing is, you could just as easily criticize Knocked Up for portraying men as a bunch of buffoonish arrested developments. If anything, the women are portrayed as more well-rounded and grounded individuals than the men.

[Derek]

The thing is, you could just as easily criticize Knocked Up for portraying men as a bunch of buffoonish arrested developments. If anything, the women are portrayed as more well-rounded and grounded individuals than the men.

It's definitely the case with Rogen's friends who are shown as borderline retarded at times. I think the film takes the stance that a responsible woman is what saves men from descending into depravity (like giving each other pink eye), even if it can ultimately leave them feeling trapped like Rudd's character.

[Sven]

Katherine Heigl regrets doing Knocked Up, calling it sexist and unbalanced in portraying women. (http://www.mollygood.com/vanity-fair/heigl-says-knocked-up-sexist-20071203/)

Usually, artists only feel comfortable criticizing their movies/projects when they have failed at the box office or have been poorly received by the critics. So it's a nice surprise to see Heigl say these things despite the film doing so well. Right on.

Awesome!

And one could, I guess, make the argument about the film treating men like buffoony stereotypes, but then your lip-service about how the film reduces both sexes into caricatures speaks only to how bad the film actually is.

And the idea that Knocked Up treated women as well-rounded is just about the most absurd thing ever.

[Li Lili]

I wouldn't go as far as "very bad." There were some gags that worked really, really well for me, despite the fact that, overall, the movie was pretty stupid and its CG looked like in-game renders from a PlayStation game.
I thought it was just a mess, and I'm not too keen on Nicholas Tse nor on Charlene Choi who annoyed me.
I haven't watched very good HK films this year that I can remember... perhaps only a couple.