28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Watashi]

If Dennis Hopper says its the worst thing he's ever done, then that means probably something.

[Sven]

and hope for some ukulele.

It's been way too long. I should whip it out again soon.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I was hoping that we, as a community, were past being confused when somebody likes/doesn't like a well-loved/oft-criticized film.

I will mount a comprehensive defense of Super Mario Bros. only if it is the case that I feel I can do it without fear of mockery.

Oh, I wasn't asking for anything comprehensive - maybe just a couple of things to watch for if I came back to the flick. After going with this forum and giving Speed Racer a shot and thoroughly enjoying it, I've been careful about what I take for granted.

[BuffaloWilder]

It has wonderful set design. I'll say that.

[Watashi]

So Secret & Lies, Happy-Go-Lucky, and Naked have all been the fucking shit.

So... where do I go next for Leigh?

[Derek]

So Secret & Lies, Happy-Go-Lucky, and Naked have all been the fucking shit.

So... where do I go next for Leigh?

I would say All or Nothing, Boner will agree with me, Sven will say either Life Is Sweet or Topsy Turvy. Fortunately for you, they're all pretty great.

[Sven]

I would say All or Nothing, Boner will agree with me, Sven will say either Life Is Sweet or Topsy Turvy. Fortunately for you, they're all pretty great.

Really, though, don't you think that Life Is Sweet and Topsy Turvy are mos' def' Wats material, whereas All or Nothing is more the gamble?

[B-side]

All or Nothing is good.

That's my insightful contribution for today. I've left a jar out for donations. It's the one with the crudely drawn fat guy on it. Respect the obese.

[Winston*]

High Hopes!

[Skitch]

I enjoy SMB on a 'its-so-bizarre' level, but I do admit its a pretty poor piece of film.

[Qrazy]

Yes. I will rate them, for clarity.



I imagine most peoples versions of this list will be nearly identical to mine, save with the last item being the first. I think Derek's assessment was made in haste, thus I will forgive him for it.

Really? Because I would think most people's versions would not include three star + rankings for Twilight, Showgirls or Super Mario Bros.

[Qrazy]

Really, though, don't you think that Life Is Sweet and Topsy Turvy are mos' def' Wats material, whereas All or Nothing is more the gamble?

Yeah I see Wats liking Topsy Turvy. I did at least.

[Boner M]

So Secret & Lies, Happy-Go-Lucky, and Naked have all been the fucking shit.

So... where do I go next for Leigh?
If you like those three then you're pretty much set to like the rest of his filmography.

I agree that All or Nothing should be your next stop. Heart-wrenching, that one.

[Pop Trash]

So Secret & Lies, Happy-Go-Lucky, and Naked have all been the fucking shit.

So... where do I go next for Leigh?

Vera Drake made me weep like a little girl. A lot of his movies are OOP on DVD in the states. Has Life is Sweet ever gotten a region one release?

Also, I would ignore some of those early flicks he shot on video. Poor quality 80s VHS looking video and it shows.

[Boner M]

Also, I would ignore some of those early flicks he shot on video. Poor quality 80s VHS looking video and it shows.
They were teleplays for BBC - not films. And the several that I've seen have all been very good; Nuts in May, Grown Ups and esp. Abigail's Party (which is his funniest film).

[Raiders]

Jonathan Demme's Something Wild is nothing extraordinary

Au contraire... nonetheless, glad you liked it.

[Sven]

Really? Because I would think most people's versions would not include three star + rankings for Twilight, Showgirls or Super Mario Bros.

I said the list would be similar. Not the ratings.

[Sven]

Has Life is Sweet ever gotten a region one release?

No.


Also, I would ignore some of those early flicks he shot on video. Poor quality 80s VHS looking video and it shows.

No.

[balmakboor]

Holy smokes Last Airbender sounds like crap. My daughter is gonna be one grumpy girl.

[Pop Trash]

They were teleplays for BBC - not films. And the several that I've seen have all been very good; Nuts in May, Grown Ups and esp. Abigail's Party (which is his funniest film).

I'm not a fan of teleplays. If people want to watch a play, they should get the hell out of their house and watch a play. Plays are great.

[Raiders]

I'm not a fan of teleplays. If people want to watch a play, they should get the hell out of their house and watch a play. Plays are great.

Yes, but my TV which sits 10 feet away is a hell of a lot closer than Washington DC, the closest place that has many plays I ever care to watch. I agree, plays are best experienced in person and indeed some almost require it... but if it is a play written specifically to be televised, then I see no problem.

[Sven]

Not only that, but Leigh does so many more interesting things with the material than just cranking out a "filmed play".

[Qrazy]

I said the list would be similar. Not the ratings.

Ahh fair.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Has anyone seen Les Herbes Folles (new Resnais)? I managed to snag a free ticket for a screening this weekend.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Has anyone seen Les Herbes Folles (new Resnais)? I managed to snag a free ticket for a screening this weekend.

Noo, but I hope to see it this coming week.

[Bosco B Thug]

They were teleplays for BBC - not films. And the several that I've seen have all been very good; Nuts in May, Grown Ups and esp. Abigail's Party (which is his funniest film).
Yes, they're all very much worth watching. Home Sweet Home was the best of the bunch, imo. I'd put it up against some of his theatrical films.

[D_Davis]

If Dennis Hopper says its the worst thing he's ever done, then that means probably something.

Hopper has been involved in many terrible projects. That's what's cool about him - he's a working actor. It's a job and a paycheck. And sometimes he does something great.

[Derek]

Really, though, don't you think that Life Is Sweet and Topsy Turvy are mos' def' Wats material, whereas All or Nothing is more the gamble?

He loved Secret & Lies and Naked, so I figure he can handle a darker Leigh film. Plus, that's my second favorite of his.


Has anyone seen Les Herbes Folles (new Resnais)? I managed to snag a free ticket for a screening this weekend.

Yep, pretty great - see sig.


Hopper has been involved in many terrible projects. That's what's cool about him - he's a working actor. It's a job and a paycheck. And sometimes he does something great.

It's cool that he's done shitty movies just for a paycheck? There are many things cool about Dennis Hopper, but that's not one of them.

[Winston*]

It's cool that he's done shitty movies just for a paycheck? There are many things cool about Dennis Hopper, but that's not one of them.

Eh. People got to work. Got to pay for coke somehow.

[Ezee E]

The Crazies has some good sequences, but ultimately I never really cared about the main characters enough to give a damn about the end result. Also, the "sequel" possibility ending shots are getting pretty annoying.

Timothy Olyphant can make any role work though.

[Derek]

Eh. People got to work. Got to pay for coke somehow.

Oh, I have no problem with that either, but I don't think that's what's cool about him. I like him in good roles and good movies more.

[megladon8]

I can see where D is coming from, but for an actor with the reputation and career that Hopper had, I think he made some terrible career choices.

I have a hard time understanding why actors like Hopper - or a better example now would be Nicolas Cage, since he's all-out bankrupt - need to do work for money.

The pay they get from a single film is more than most any of us will get in our lifetime.

If you're paid several million dollars for a single film, then a few years down the line you NEED to do some outright terrible movie just for the paycheck, you have terrible money-management skills.

[Ezee E]

$68 million for Eclipse's first day. Jeesus.

[Skitch]

Timothy Olyphant can make any role work though.
Twohy's last was a fine example that this point is true. When it was over I said I would have rather have seen a film built around Olyphant's character.

[Winston*]

Oh, I have no problem with that either, but I don't think that's what's cool about him. I like him in good roles and good movies more.

Fair. Have you seen him in The American Friend? Damn, he's good.

[baby doll]

$68 million for Eclipse's first day. Jeesus.For some reason, this whole phenomenon reminds me of this Korean soap opera, Boys Before Flowers, which was huge in the early part of 2009. Just replace Kristin Stewart with the girl, Geum Jan-di, the vampire boy with Gu Jun-pyo in the centre, and the werewolf boy with the boy on the far right (whose name I forget).

http://daheefanel.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/korea-boys-before-flowers-001.jpg

[Yxklyx]

Just re-watched this, wow:

"Women keep busy in towns like this. In the cities it's different. The cities are full of women, middle-aged widows, husbands dead, husbands who've spent their lives making fortunes, working and working. Then they die and leave their money to their wives. Their silly wives. And what do the wives do, these useless women? You see them in the hotels, the best hotels, every day by the thousands. Drinking the money, eating the money, losing the money at bridge, playing all day and all night. Smelling of money. Proud of their jewelry but of nothing else. Horrible, faded, fat, greedy women. Are they human or are they fat, wheezing animals, hmm? And what happens to animals when they get too fat and too old? "

[B-side]

Saw more Ruiz. Fell deeper in love. I feel that I should make it a weekly tradition to mention Ruiz in some manner in order to get you guys to seek him out. I will be as annoying as I possibly can without getting the banhammer.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Just re-watched this, wow:

"Women keep busy in towns like this. In the cities it's different. The cities are full of women, middle-aged widows, husbands dead, husbands who've spent their lives making fortunes, working and working. Then they die and leave their money to their wives. Their silly wives. And what do the wives do, these useless women? You see them in the hotels, the best hotels, every day by the thousands. Drinking the money, eating the money, losing the money at bridge, playing all day and all night. Smelling of money. Proud of their jewelry but of nothing else. Horrible, faded, fat, greedy women."

Shadow of a Doubt?

If so, I salute you, sir.

[kopello]

Saw more Ruiz. Fell deeper in love. I feel that I should make it a weekly tradition to mention Ruiz in some manner in order to get you guys to seek him out. I will be as annoying as I possibly can without getting the banhammer.

I have his film That Day at home now from Netflix, any good? I really want to see Time Regained but for the past few months or so it's been showing up as unavailable on my queue.

[D_Davis]

Guess who the newest Match Cutter is to see the brilliance of Tsui Hark's Knock Off?

[Ezee E]

Guess who the newest Match Cutter is to see the brilliance of Tsui Hark's Knock Off?
Teh Sausage?

[D_Davis]

Teh Sausage?

Nope

[Russ]

The Beaver Trilogy (Trent Harris, 2000) ****

A chance meeting back in 1979 between a Salt Lake City television station cameraman and a 21 year old “All-American� kid from nearby Beaver, Utah, provides the framework for this compelling documentary/fictionalized reimagining of the self-proclaimed “Rich Little of Beaver� and his inspired quest to appear on TV. The film is composed of three short segments, filmed over a period of several years, and was finally released in 2000. “Groovin’ Gary�, the subject of the documentary, is an affable, charismatic (and most definitely gender-confused) youth who is star-struck at the prospect of fame – to the point where he organizes a local talent show in Beaver for the purpose of providing the film’s director (Trent Harris), with “something memorable.� An understatement. He invites the cameraman to film his preparation -- at the local mortuary – where a bewildered, yet supportive, employee applies his makeup as he begins his amazing transformation in realizing his dream of performing (and being filmed for TV) as his idol, Olivia Newton-John. The original documentary chronicled the event but not the extraneous issues surrounding it, and that’s where the two subsequent fictionalized accounts come in.

Each of these closely mirror the actual documentary – down to exact line readings and sets. But they also seek to shed more light on the “how� and “why�, delving in to topics such as media exploitation and manipulation, filmmaker-subject trust, and the inevitable reaction of the townspeople, which likely had a negative effect on Gary, who, shortly after the initial short was produced, was hospitalized due to a self-inflicted gunshot wound and still distances himelf from the film. The later short films’ portrayal of these scenes certainly lends an air of poignancy and tragedy to the proceedings. The great coup for the filmmaker was in securing the talents of a very young (and at the time unknown) Sean Penn and, later, Crispin Glover, for their interpretations of “Groovin’ Gary�. Penn and Glover’s spellbinding full-drag portrayals of, respectively, Olivia Newton-Dawn and Olivia Neutron Bomb, are simultaneously courageous, sad, hilarious, and utterly surreal.

Highly recommended to anyone here not named Watashi.

[Watashi]

Huh?

[Sven]

Highly recommended to anyone here not named Watashi.

Did you see that this film was, and still is, on my top 100?

[Sven]

Oh, Davis is totally talking about me, re: Knock Off brilliance. It's a damn smart movie.

[D_Davis]

Oh, Davis is totally talking about me, re: Knock Off brilliance. It's a damn smart movie.

Correct!
:pritch:

[Russ]

Huh?
Sorry Wats, 'twas only a good-natured jab at your once steadfast refusal to see the Hairspray remake because it featured John Travolta in drag (tho I seem to remember you've since seen, and enjoyed, it). The prospect of having to endure both Sean Penn and Crispin Glover in drag just didn't seem like your cup of tea.

[Russ]

Did you see that this film was, and still is, on my top 100?
I did not! Link?

[Spinal]

While Wats went back on his refusal to see the Hairspray remake, I stuck to my pledge. Still, Penn and Glover in drag sounds FAR more entertaining than Travolta.

[B-side]

I have his film That Day at home now from Netflix, any good? I really want to see Time Regained but for the past few months or so it's been showing up as unavailable on my queue.

I actually just downloaded that one yesterday. Time Regained is his best, and it's a damn shame Netflix relegated it to the Save section.

[Robby P]

While I wasn't too thoroughly impressed with Sexy Beast on the whole, good lord was Ben Kingsley something else in this movie. Now that is acting.

[Spinal]

The Fly greatly exceeded my expectations. I was looking for a bit of schlocky, low-rent fun and got much more. The acting is solid. The story is just one of those brilliant ideas that is simple yet implies so much. The dramatic reveal is both tragic and shocking. And the conclusion is emotionally involving. I wish that less of the ending had been revealed at the beginning of the film, but for the most part, I was greatly pleased.

[Ivan Drago]

Have you seen Cronenberg's The Fly, Spinal? If so which do you prefer?

[Pop Trash]

So what's the deal with the GaGa avatars? Did I miss something?

[Ivan Drago]

Disregarding that that's not what I count as a blockbuster*, from what I've read, Eclipse does have tons of action and special effects. Apparently David Slade just took the thing given to him and decided to just make a vampire/werewolf war movie, half-assing the story and romance.

Indeed he did. The only positive to Eclipse is the final 1/3rd, which has pretty much all the action in the movie with it's climatic battle (and it's well done too), which is talked about like a trip to the mall in the boring as fuck first 2/3rds. And the soundtrack, that was good too, but also needed to be used more I thought.




I saw it out of boredom, okay? This summer fucking sucks.

[Spinal]

Have you seen Cronenberg's The Fly, Spinal? If so which do you prefer?

Yes, quite some time ago. It's a rare Cronenberg film that I actually like. I'd give the original the edge at this point, but the viewings are too far apart for me to compare them definitively.

[Spinal]

So what's the deal with the GaGa avatars? Did I miss something?

Sometimes at Match Cut, stuff just happens.

[B-side]

To be a Ruiz fan is to endure shitty VHS' with fan-made subtitles which fail to capture the intricacies of Ruiz's dialogue, but even through a really crappy rip, one can still appreciate the man's visual dynamism:

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/vlcsnap-2010-07-03-02h53m19s18.png

[Sven]

I did not! Link?

http://match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=127999&postcount=977

#18.

Yeeks. Some of my writing. I swear, I sound like the biggest dork sometimes.

[soitgoes...]

I almost downloaded a Ruiz film yesterday, but then I didn't.

[B-side]

I almost downloaded a Ruiz film yesterday, but then I didn't.

Tease! I couldn't possibly predict how you'd react to him.

[soitgoes...]

Tease! I couldn't possibly predict how you'd react to him.I have a pretty good idea. That's why I haven't seen anything by him yet, but who knows? I've been surprised before.

I have to watch Three Lives and Only One Death for my race with Qrazy. Which I might add, is going to turn into an epic finish where we both have 50 or so films left, the majority of which are films we are dreading.

[B-side]

I have a pretty good idea. That's why I haven't seen anything by him yet, but who knows? I've been surprised before.

I have to watch Three Lives and Only One Death for my race with Qrazy. Which I might add, is going to turn into an epic finish where we both have 50 or so films left, the majority of which are films we are dreading.

Grr. Ruiz is a rather elusive filmmaker, so I have a hard time predicting how well he'll go over with people.

[Qrazy]

I have a pretty good idea. That's why I haven't seen anything by him yet, but who knows? I've been surprised before.

I have to watch Three Lives and Only One Death for my race with Qrazy. Which I might add, is going to turn into an epic finish where we both have 50 or so films left, the majority of which are films we are dreading.

It's quite a good film. I had some minor quibbles with a moment near the end and a few other minor issues throughout but overall it's good times. Lots of humor and a joy to watch Mastroianni sink his teeth into a variety of characters.

[Bosco B Thug]

The Fly greatly exceeded my expectations. I was looking for a bit of schlocky, low-rent fun and got much more. The acting is solid. The story is just one of those brilliant ideas that is simple yet implies so much. The dramatic reveal is both tragic and shocking. And the conclusion is emotionally involving. I wish that less of the ending had been revealed at the beginning of the film, but for the most part, I was greatly pleased. Loved this movie as a kid. Loved the story. I read an article on it in a non-Fangoria horror mag years ago that gave it good dramatic consideration. I'm glad to see it deserves appreciation and looking forward to seeing it again.

[Rowland]

Oh, Davis is totally talking about me, re: Knock Off brilliance. It's a damn smart movie.Match-Cut probably has the largest cult following of Knock Off on the net, which makes us awesome.

I confess that this is really not my song; I bought it in Hong Kong; It's a knock off. [/humming]

[Watashi]

I think it's Rowland's duty to see every 2010 release possible.

[MadMan]

I think it's Rowland's duty to see every 2010 release possible.Then him and Eternity have something in common.

Mad Max(1979) appears on the surface to be quite simplistic, but after seeing it I found it to be rather brutal, incredibly intense, and containing plenty deal of emotion. Seeing Max turn into a merciless badass is all the more exciting and fascinating, especially since he has little humanity left in the second movie, although he gains some of it back in the third (at least that's what I recall about Thunderdome-I'm going to revisit that movie this month). Having viewed the series out of order, for now I'd say that the first film is slightly the best of the series with suspense scenes being incredibly well shot, and for diving more into Max's character than the other two. Although The Road Warrior is also great, and Thunderdome is solid.

PS: So did they ever state what happened to the chief and the rest of the police officers? I was quite curious, since nothing was ever stated about their fates. I know that Goose died, but that's about it.

[Rowland]

I think it's Rowland's duty to see every 2010 release possible.I only see movies I have some reason to believe may be worth my while. And hey, I like every movie in my signature more than this summer's blockbuster duds Iron Man 2 and The A-Team.

[transmogrifier]

I have all of these films available to view. I haven't seen any of them yet. Tomorrow is set to be a rainy day in wrapped up warm on my couch, so I need the three films that I am most likely to love, given my taste. The only real caveat is that I'm tired from all the World Cup watching, so I'm not really in the mood for a slow-paced minimalist film ATM. Any suggestions?

Bunny Lake is Missing
The Awful Truth
In the Loop
El Dorado
Hot Tub Time Machine
Le Samourai
Ratcatcher
Mean Creek
Miracle at St. Anna
Moon
Paranormal Activity
Rec
Snow Angels
Street Kings
The Taking of Pelham 123 (2009)
The American Friend
The Assassination of Jesse James by the .....
The Book of Eli
The Crazies
The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
The President's Analyst
The Thin Man
Two Lovers
Umberto D
W
Wages of Fear
Stroszek
That Cold Day in the Park
The Spy that Came in from the Cold
Ulzana's Raid
Where Eagles Dare
Zombieland

[baby doll]

Any suggestions?

El Dorado
Ratcatcher
Moon
The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
The Thin Man
Two Lovers
Umberto D
StroszekThese are good. And anything by Spike Lee, Otto Preminger, or Wim Wenders is probably worth checking out.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I have all of these films available to view. I haven't seen any of them yet. Tomorrow is set to be a rainy day in wrapped up warm on my couch, so I need the three films that I am most likely to love, given my taste. The only real caveat is that I'm tired from all the World Cup watching, so I'm not really in the mood for a slow-paced minimalist film ATM. Any suggestions?

Bunny Lake is Missing
The Awful Truth
In the Loop
El Dorado
Hot Tub Time Machine
Le Samourai
Ratcatcher
Mean Creek
Miracle at St. Anna
Moon
Paranormal Activity
Rec
Snow Angels
Street Kings
The Taking of Pelham 123 (2009)
The American Friend
The Assassination of Jesse James by the .....
The Book of Eli
The Crazies
The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
The President's Analyst
The Thin Man
Two Lovers
Umberto D
W
Wages of Fear
Stroszek
That Cold Day in the Park
The Spy that Came in from the Cold
Ulzana's Raid
Where Eagles Dare
Zombieland

Those I've bolded are all what I consider must see films. I also like Hot Tub Time Machine and The Assassination of Jesse James, but to a lesser extent than the others.

[MacGuffin]

If you're looking to watch Bunny Lake Is Missing on Netflix Instant Watch, don't, I've tried. It's painfully windowboxed and the movie takes up about four to five inches of the actual screen.

[Qrazy]

The film you need to watch in response to your World Cup burn out is Wages of Fear.

[balmakboor]

If you're looking to watch Bunny Lake Is Missing on Netflix Instant Watch, don't, I've tried. It's painfully windowboxed and the movie takes up about four to five inches of the actual screen.

Doesn't sound like windowboxing. It sounds like widescreen that hasn't been enhanced for widescreen tvs.

[MacGuffin]

Doesn't sound like windowboxing. It sounds like widescreen that hasn't been enhanced for widescreen tvs.

Yeah, that's probably it. I'll have to rent it, I guess.

[Grouchy]

In the Loop
El Dorado
Le Samourai
Rec
The Assassination of Jesse James by the .....
The Book of Eli
The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
Wages of Fear
Ulzana's Raid

All those are good stuff.

[Skitch]

Directors cut of Dark City is as strong as ever.

[Rowland]

Legion (Stewart, 2010) **

Absolutely ridiculous amalgam of The Terminator and Carpenter's siege thrillers, only instead of Satan commanding the homeless to perform his dastardly sieging as in Prince of Darkness, we have God's angel army possessing weak-minded human vessels Ã* la the agents from The Matrix to swarm our heroes like mindless Romero zombies, apart from the inexplicable instances where they can crawl like insects and perform other superhuman acts, usually dependent on whatever scenario is most convenient to the internal-logic-challenged screenplay. Also, I expect an angel would be a bit less crude than to quip "Don't worry, I just want to play with your baby" before charging at a pregnant woman with a cleaver. It's because of this at-least semi-self-aware daffiness however that the film retains a surprising degree of watchability, in addition to the fine efforts by the cast, who manage to imbue their paper-thin characters with more pathos than the material warrants, and the solid directorial craft courtesy of former-ILM vfx-stooge Scott Charles Stewart (certainly superior to any given SyFy Original Production to which Walter Chaw ludicrously compares it), which manages to avoid the trendy techniques abused by so many genre hacks. So it's just a shame then that this thing loses momentum during its bloated second act, its hole-ridden screenplay never actualizes the potential of the scenario to any really surprising, tense, or meaningful ends, and the distasteful, nonsensical denouement takes its inherently right-wing politics a little too seriously after the goofiness of what preceded to register as anything more than a significant comedown. Still, that I liked this as much as I did suggests it'll have a robust future in its inevitability as a late-night cable staple. Be sure to stick around for the angel-fu climax, during which a giant-hammer-wielding angel freshly descended from Heaven deflects the bullet-spray from Paul Bettany's dual uzis with what appear to be metallic wings.

[Winston*]

Watched I've Loved You So Long. Good movie, exceptionally well performed, but
did people think the ending was kind of a cop out? Like they didn't have the guts to leave the audience having humanised a character who straight up murdered her child.

[MacGuffin]

Someone recommend me a cool British film a la This Is England.

[Boner M]

Someone recommend me a cool British film a la This Is England.
Scum & Made in Britain.

[MacGuffin]

Scum & Made in Britain.

Seen Scum and liked it, but I oughta give Made in Britain a chance. That also reminds me I need to check out Alan Clarke's Elephant as well.

[Winston*]

Seen Scum and liked it, but I oughta give Made in Britain a chance. That also reminds me I need to check out Alan Clarke's Elephant as well.

The Firm's great also (I haven't seen Elephant).

[number8]

Someone recommend me a cool British film a la This Is England.

Start with Shane Meadows' other films, though the Alan Clarke recommendations work too.

[MacGuffin]

Start with Shane Meadows' other films, though the Alan Clarke recommendations work too.

I wasn't exactly overwhelmed by Dead Man's Shoes when I saw it, but I think I may have to give it a rewatch, as it's on Netflix Instant Streaming in HD. So is Somers Town, which I'll probably give a try tonight.

[Boner M]

Seconded. Somer's Town and Dead Man's Shoes > This is England

EDIT: RE number8

[transmogrifier]

Here's a list of my Top 20 Directors according to the average score of all the films of theirs I have seen (minimum of four films)

1 David Fincher 80.4 (7)
2 Akira Kurosawa 78 (4)
3 Paul Thomas Anderson 77.8 (5)
4 Peter Greenaway 77.25 (4)
5 Sergio Leone 76.4 (5)
6 Michael Mann 75.9 (9)
7 John Sayles 75.1 (8)
8 Sidney Lumet 74.7 (6)
9 Sam Peckinpah 74.6 (5)
10 Paul Greengrass 74.3 (4)
11 Richard Linklater 72.9 (10)
12 Peter Jackson 72.8 (10)
13 Rob Reiner 72.7 (7)
14 Jean-Pierre Melville 72.6 (5)
15 Billy Wilder 72.6 (10)
16 Curtis Hanson 72.3 (6)
17. Lee Chang Dong 72 (4)
18 Michael Haneke 71.3 (6)
19 Wong Kar-Wai 71.3 (6)
20 Samuel Fuller 70.875 (8)

A lot of selective viewing there for sure. Rob Reiner WTF?

[transmogrifier]

Other notables:

25 Robert Altman 69.8 (25)
27 Martin Scorcese 69.7 (19)
40 Woody Allen 67.3 (36)
42 David Lynch 67.1 (9)
47 Alfred Hitchcock 66.2 (10)
49 Quentin Tarantino 65.7 (7)
67 Clint Eastwood 62.5 (11)
69 Stanley Kubrick 62 (9)
77 Werner Herzog 59.8 (4)
90 Brian De Palma 56.7 (15)
100 Paul Verhoeven 55.4 (7)

BOTTOM 10

137 Kim Ki-Duk 45.3 (7)
138 Todd Phillips 45.25 (4)
139 Roland Emmerich 44.8 (6)
140 Andrew Davis 44 (5)
141 Brett Ratner 42.3 (4)
142 Ivan Reitman 41.6 (9)
143 Kim Woo-Suck 40.8 (4)
144 John Badham 38.2 (5)
145 Gary Fleder 36.3 (4)
146 Michael Bay 34.9 (7)

[Watashi]

I'm more worried why Curtis Hanson is above the likes of Hitchcock, Scorsese, Lynch, Herzog, and Kubrick.

[baby doll]

I'm more worried why David Fincher is above the likes of anyone. Admittedly, I've just seen three of his movies, but neither Fight Club nor The Curious Case of Benjamin Button was anything to write home about. (Not having seen Alien 3 since I was ten, I'll withhold judgment on it for the time being.) While I suppose that Fight Club might seem edgy for such a commercial movie, that hardly makes the guy Fassbinder. Even among music video directors turned commercial filmmakers (the Michel Gondry-Spike Jonze-Mark Romanec-Tarsem Singh Hollywood hipster brigade), he doesn't demand a heck of a lot from the viewer. I don't think he's a bad director (although Benjamin Button is a very mediocre movie, even by the standards of year-end Oscar-bait; I frankly preferred Frost/Nixon and The Reader), but making slick Hollywood movies with Brad Pitt that are nominally more challenging than other slick Hollywood movies with Brad Pitt doesn't seem like a huge victory over the system to me. I'm tempted to say that he's the Park Chan-wook of America, except that nothing I've seen by Fincher is as good as Sympathy for Mr. Vengence.

[B-side]

I'm more worried why David Fincher is above the likes of anyone.

Yeah.

[MacGuffin]

baby doll: See Zodiac. It's far and away Fincher's best movie. Edit: And Se7en. Jeez, man, looks like you need to see the movies Fincher is known for before dissing him entirely. ;)

As for Somers Town, it's great. Thomas Turgoose is hilarious.

[B-side]

I can only imagine how thrilled soitgoes has been regarding the recent influx of roughly 430352187255196529786 Mikio Naruse films on KG.:lol:

[transmogrifier]

I'm more worried why Curtis Hanson is above the likes of Hitchcock, Scorsese, Lynch, Herzog, and Kubrick.

That's the side effect of small sample size and ignoring films likely to be crap.

[soitgoes...]

I can only imagine how thrilled soitgoes has been regarding the recent influx of roughly 430352187255196529786 Mikio Naruse films on KG.:lol:Well there's only been three new ones in the last few months, but yeah, I'm pretty stoked on those. I have a solid 15 of his films waiting to be watched on my computer though, so as excited as I am to see new films of his popping up, I have to find the time to watch them all.

Glynford and Bressoniac are my idols. They account for about 30 of his films on KG, which is to say 30 films available for the English speaking world.

[BuffaloWilder]

he doesn't demand a heck of a lot from the viewer.

In this instance, with the films you're referring to, two films that are pretty implicitly viscerally designed to be driven entirely by the emotional aspects of their particular concepts, that piece of criticism is a little silly.

Do you enjoy Mike Leigh movies? I get the feeling you enjoy Mike Leigh movies.

[Winston*]

Do you enjoy Mike Leigh movies? I get the feeling you enjoy Mike Leigh movies.
Is this supposed to be a slam?

[BuffaloWilder]

Um - it can be, I guess.

:confused:

[Skitch]

Kim Ki-Duk 45.3 (7)
:(

[baby doll]

In this instance, with the films you're referring to, two films that are pretty implicitly viscerally designed to be driven entirely by the emotional aspects of their particular concepts, that piece of criticism is a little silly.First of all, I just want to admire this as a sentence. Let's see if I got this straight: The two films are pretty implicitly viscerally designed (as opposed to really overtly theoretically improvised?) to be driven by the emotional aspects of their particular concepts (particular concepts, I'm assuming to be their respective plots). In other words, what I think you're saying is, "Hey, stupid! These movies are more emotional than intellectual." I've seen some people rape the English language in my day, but that was something else.

And when I say that Fincher's films aren't demanding, what I was driving at is that his films, in terms of narrative construction and style, are very much like other conventional Hollywood movies. That is, he's not in the avant-garde boat with Chantal Akerman, Pedro Costa, and Philippe Garrel. Fincher's movies tell stories, which move at a relatively fast pace; he isn't doing anything weird or surprising with sounds and images; every point is underlined for the viewer by his style (and when I say "point," I don't mean some larger underlying thesis about the effects of late capitalism on the masculine psyche, but story points, like Edward Norton beat up Jared Leto really good and everyone in the room is just stunned). He's a conventional commercial director, not bad but not really great either. Pretty good for the Age of Intensified Continuity, I guess, but personally, intensified continuity just isn't my thing. I like Otto Preminger, I like mise en scène (I know, what a douche).


Do you enjoy Mike Leigh movies? I get the feeling you enjoy Mike Leigh movies.Uh... yeah? What are you driving at here? (But seriously, I do.)

[Boner M]

How have you not seen Zodiac, baby doll? That's simply appalling.

[baby doll]

How have you not seen Zodiac, baby doll? That's simply appalling.What can I say? I haven't seen The Shawshank Redemption either. They're just not high priority movies for me.

[transmogrifier]

:(

His early movies are appallingly bad.

[number8]

What can I say? I haven't seen The Shawshank Redemption either. They're just not high priority movies for me.

Yeah, but... Zodiac's actually really good.

[baby doll]

Yeah, but... Zodiac's actually really good.I hope it is.

[Boner M]

I hope it is.
Plus, Zodiac has nearly universal approval from the Film Comment/Cinema-Scope/snob/egghead/douche contingent. Dunno if you'd like it, but I just find it weird that you haven't seen it considering the quarters where its held in high esteem.

[balmakboor]

BOTTOM 10
Kim Ki-Duk
John Badham

:sad:

[Dead & Messed Up]

that piece of criticism is a little silly.


I've seen some people rape the English language in my day, but that was something else.

That escalated quickly...

[number8]

That escalated quickly...

I mean, that really got out of hand fast.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I mean, that really got out of hand fast.

It jumped up a notch.

[BuffaloWilder]

First of all, I just want to admire this as a sentence. Let's see if I got this straight: The two films are pretty implicitly viscerally designed (as opposed to really overtly theoretically improvised?) to be driven by the emotional aspects of their particular concepts (particular concepts, I'm assuming to be their respective plots). In other words, what I think you're saying is, "Hey, stupid! These movies are more emotional than intellectual." I've seen some people rape the English language in my day, but that was something else.

I love this. I love how you're consciously misinterpreting what's pretty dern clear in the original post purely for a lot of posturing about nothing - and, then you just kind of peter out with a half-hearted "eff you!" at the end. Chillax.

Also, when I was referring to the film's particular concepts, that's - well, exactly what I meant. Not their plot, but their central conceit. Fincher's more fascinated by the hard, dangerously violent emotions coursing through the members of the Fight Club in Fight Club, or the loping and lyrical wistfulness that would come with the backward-aging at the heart of Button.


And when I say that Fincher's films aren't demanding, what I was driving at is that his films, in terms of narrative construction and style, are very much like other conventional Hollywood movies.

As far as his style is concerned, I'd say he's pretty fairly idiosyncratic, as mainstream directors go - among other things, all of his movies have a noticeably dense, almost pulpy atmosphere that's unmistakable when compared to the output of any other director, I think.

On the narrative construction of his films, I'm going to assume you're using a really, really broad standard of conventional, here - because neither Button nor Se7en or Zodiac unfold in anything resembling "Hollywood Conventional Style," whatever that might be, with their span of years and with the latter in particular heading toward a conclusion that's something of a moral reversal of any other police procedural film I've seen - and, on that note, the same could be said of many, many other directors.


That is, he's not in the avant-garde boat with Chantal Akerman, Pedro Costa, and Philippe Garrel.

...okay. Neither are very many other directors - because that's not the type of film they're trying to make, so trying to hold up some comparison between the two or implying that Fincher is worse for his propensity toward more linear storytelling is a little non-sequiter, I think.



Fincher's movies tell stories, which move at a relatively fast pace;

I don't even know what to respond to, in this.


he isn't doing anything weird or surprising with sounds and images;

My opinion of some of his visual and visceral experiments in Fight Club notwithstanding, this really is why you need to see Se7en - and, it seems a little pointless to be having a discussion about the merits of the guy's style if you haven't seen not only this but several of his more harsh, idiosyncratic films that kind of define what makes him who he is, as a filmmaker. Fincher's bold framing of the end of the film against the harsh, yellow sunlight in the open fields. Glenn Heath gives a pretty good run down of it, here (http://matchcuts.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/hell-on-earth-rethinking-darkness-and-light-in-se7en/).




every point is underlined for the viewer by his style (and when I say "point," I don't mean some larger underlying thesis about the effects of late capitalism on the masculine psyche

Although, I don't know how you can say that doesn't play into the film, in a big way - it's not even necessary to look at it subtextually, I mean it's like right there.


but story points, like Edward Norton beat up Jared Leto really good and everyone in the room is just stunned).

Oh, you mean character moments. Oh noes, he underlines character evolution visually.


He's a conventional commercial director, not bad but not really great either.

He's pretty great, dude.


Pretty good for the Age of Intensified Continuity, I guess, but personally, intensified continuity just isn't my thing.

I'm sorry?


I like Otto Preminger, I like mise en scène (I know, what a douche).


Oh, Oh I see. You're trying to imply that Fincher has no control over his film's visual composition - or, that people who enjoy Fincher don't enjoy Preminger. Or, that I'm singling you out because you're defending quality. Or all three, I dunno. They're all kind of silly.


Uh... yeah? What are you driving at here? (But seriously, I do.)

It was just a passing question.

[number8]

It jumped up a notch.

It did, didn't it?!

[Derek]

Trans' Kim Ki-duk hate makes me warm and fuzzy inside. I do love Time though.

[MacGuffin]

Valhalla Rising (Refn, 2010) ***½
Bronson (Refn, 2008) *

This is interesting to see, as I also thought that Bronson was basically shite.

[number8]

This is interesting to see, as I also thought that Bronson was basically shite.

Same here. 'Sup with all the love for that one? Tom Hardy, I'm guessing.

[BuffaloWilder]

Well, he is pretty great.

[MacGuffin]

Same here. 'Sup with all the love for that one? Tom Hardy, I'm guessing.

I'm going to guess that the over-stylized nature of it all just isn't for me. I didn't even like the miming scenes, which seemed to be the high point for most people (and yeah, it's probably because of Tom Hardy).

[Spinal]

Watching Fellowship of the Ring with my son. Man, oh man, I love the ring wraiths. Probably my favorite part of the whole shebang.

[Ezee E]

Watching Fellowship of the Ring with my son. Man, oh man, I love the ring wraiths. Probably my favorite part of the whole shebang.
Easily. I never read the books, so I was always wishing for more to show up throughout the entire trilogy.

[Rowland]

Yeah, they're just a part of why FotR remains my favorite entry in the trilogy.

[number8]

...Dementors are cooler.

[baby doll]

I love this. I love how you're consciously misinterpreting what's pretty dern clear in the original post purely for a lot of posturing about nothing - and, then you just kind of peter out with a half-hearted "eff you!" at the end. Chillax.If I'm misinterpreting what you said, I can assure you it's not deliberate. Maybe I was overly harsh before, and for that I apologize, but the way you phrased that sentence seemed to me jargony to the point of being unintelligible.


Also, when I was referring to the film's particular concepts, that's - well, exactly what I meant. Not their plot, but their central conceit. Fincher's more fascinated by the hard, dangerously violent emotions coursing through the members of the Fight Club in Fight Club, or the loping and lyrical wistfulness that would come with the backward-aging at the heart of Button.I think the particular weakness of both films as storytelling is that they're all conceit with no follow through. Because the story unfolds over a century, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button is almost inevitably episodic and plodding, so even though it's an intriguing enough premise, this guy aging backwards, and the film more or less held my interest as I was curious to see how it would unfold, it just unfolded so slowly and leisurely, and it never really grabbed me on a gut level. There's no real dramatic tension here; it's more like a three-hour illustration of a general principle (i.e., what would happen if some one aged backwards?) than a story that really comes to life and engages the viewer. I suppose that's partly because Benjamin Button, apart from his unique medical condition, just isn't that interesting as a character; he's just so bland, and so passive about everything--it's almost like he's a spectator to his own life.

And in the case of Fight Club, again it's an intriguing premise, but where do you go from middle-class guys beating each other up for fun except escalating levels of silliness (which is the path the film ultimately goes down, so that each reel is a little less compelling than the last)?


As far as his style is concerned, I'd say he's pretty fairly idiosyncratic, as mainstream directors go - among other things, all of his movies have a noticeably dense, almost pulpy atmosphere that's unmistakable when compared to the output of any other director, I think.I think you can trace the grungy noir look of Fight Club (and evidently Seven as well, based on the clips I've seen in TV promos over the years)--which seems to be what most folks would regard as the Fincher Look--all the way back to Ridley Scott's Alien and Blade Runner.


On the narrative construction of his films, I'm going to assume you're using a really, really broad standard of conventional, here - because neither Button nor Se7en or Zodiac unfold in anything resembling "Hollywood Conventional Style," whatever that might be, with their span of years and with the latter in particular heading toward a conclusion that's something of a moral reversal of any other police procedural film I've seen - and, on that note, the same could be said of many, many other directors.I haven't seen Forrest Gump to which Benjamin Button has been widely compared (and I think both movies were even written by the same guy), but I have seen Big Fish, and like Burton's film, it's very much an Oscar-baiting magic realist weepy, although here the daddy issues (though very much present) aren't so much in the foreground, but made secondary to the romantic interest subplot.

But more generally, what I mean by conventional Hollywood storytelling is this three-act structure that's been imported from the theatre, which is all about having a protagonist with a goal and then making us identify with that goal, whether it's catching a serial killer on the loose, thereby restoring law and order, or stopping his imaginary friend from blowing up the financial system (and killing his lady friend), thereby restoring the status quo. I don't think the hero failing to achieve his goals can be considered a "moral reversal" (unless in Zodiac, which obviously I haven't seen, the ending implies that the serial killer is the good guy, and the cops trying to catch him are the real crooks). I mean, Chinatown is a classic example of a Hollywood movie where the detective doesn't get the bad guy locked up and fails to save the girl (who's shot in the head by the cops while trying to save her daughter from being raped by her father. Now that's what I call a moral reversal, although it doesn't in any way complicate our identification with Gittes as the hero, and the fact of his odiousness as a person only shows how strong the pull of the detective plot is that we still identify with him, in spite of what an unlikable guy he is).


...okay. Neither are very many other directors - because that's not the type of film they're trying to make, so trying to hold up some comparison between the two or implying that Fincher is worse for his propensity toward more linear storytelling is a little non-sequiter, I think.It's not a non-sequiteur insofar as Fincher is regarded as an idiosyncratic filmmaker, which I don't believe he is.


I don't even know what to respond to, in this.I was just giving an example of how his films are line with commercial norms.


Although, I don't know how you can say that doesn't play into the film, in a big way - it's not even necessary to look at it subtextually, I mean it's like right there.Okay, I wasn't being clear. I'm not saying that isn't part of the film; it obviously is. I just meant... well, I think you more or less got it with the next paragraph.


Oh, you mean character moments. Oh noes, he underlines character evolution visually.The issue isn't whether or not he underlines his plot points visually, but how he does this. And the way he emphasizes a point through editing is very much in keeping with any mainstream Hollywood movie going back to D.W. Griffith. He's not a director where you really have to look closely at what's going on in a scene, because he highlights everything for you through somewhat heavy-handed montage and sound cues. So this idea of him being an idiosyncratic Hollywood filmmaker seems to me a bit of an exaggeration, when he's not really demanding anything more of the viewer than any other mainstream commercial movie.


He's pretty great, dude.Maybe Seven and Zodiac will turn me around, but so far I'm not seeing it.


I'm sorry?David Bordwell's term for the style of late Hollywood movies.


Oh, Oh I see. You're trying to imply that Fincher has no control over his film's visual composition - or, that people who enjoy Fincher don't enjoy Preminger. Or, that I'm singling you out because you're defending quality. Or all three, I dunno. They're all kind of silly.If anything Fincher has too much control over visual composition. If he wants to emphasize something, he cuts to a close-up, as opposed to the less dictatorial deep focus style of Preminger, which guides the viewer's gaze more subtly through composition by moving one actor closer to the camera or having another turn away from it (resulting in what Charles Barr termed a "gradation of emphasis")--which isn't to say, of course, that Preminger never used close-ups, but did so more sparingly, and with greater force.


It was just a passing question.I see.

[Qrazy]

...Dementors are cooler.

STFU.

[Rowland]

Hating the Player, Losing the Game: The Armond White Meta-Review (http://www.slantmagazine.com/house/2010/07/hating-the-player-losing-the-game-the-armond-white-meta-review/).

[Derek]

Undisputed II: Last Man Standing (Florentine, 2005)

Why?

[Derek]

Hating the Player, Losing the Game: The Armond White Meta-Review (http://www.slantmagazine.com/house/2010/07/hating-the-player-losing-the-game-the-armond-white-meta-review/).

That's a great article.

[Rowland]

Why?The director, Isaac Florentine, has a reputation for being one of the finest directors in DTV. Vern has been singing his praises for years now, arguing that he's better than almost anyone in Hollywood at action direction, and even insisting that he prefers the DTV Undisputed sequels (both by Florentine) to Walter Hill's original. As a huge fan of the latter, I can't agree with him, but I see where he's coming from with Florentine; he just needs better material and actors, and to shed some of his tackier formal tics. Still, he's no John Hyams, who directed the kinda-amazing Universal Solider: Regeneration.

[baby doll]

Umm... weekend viewings, y'all?Barbe Bleue (Catherine Breillat, 2009)
Continental, un film sans fusil (Stéphane Lafleur, 2007)
I Don't Want to Sleep Alone (Tsai Ming-liang, 2006)
Serbis (Brillante Mendoza, 2008)

[B-side]

That's a great article.

Absolutely. Fantastic work. Besides the deconstruction of White's nonsense, I rather enjoyed this bit of philosophical insight:


Reading White, I am constantly reminded that the human intellect, which we often analogize to a courtroom judge dispassionately weighing arguments and evidence, actually operates much more like a lawyer-for-hire, rationalizing and enabling our emotional narratives.

[MacGuffin]

Umm... weekend viewings, y'all?

Diva (Beineix, 1981)
Millennium Actress (Kon, 2001)
The River (Tsai, 1997)
Ariel Pink's Haunted Graffiti live!

[B-side]

Barbe Bleue (Catherine Breillat, 2009)


The River (Tsai, 1997)

These are both good, so I hope you guys enjoy them.

As for me, it's impossible for me to say for sure what I'll be seeing, but I hope to get around to more Ruiz and possibly one or both of the Beauty and the Beast films I have.

[B-side]

Brightside/"Ruiz" search brings up 41 items. Not bad, but compared to megladon8/"Cthulhu" at 73, your fandom is not quite up to snuff. Plus meg has a Cthulhu tattoo, so until you get a tramp stamp of Ruiz's face, you're not doing your job. :)

Side note to anyone who may take offense to the above or perhaps has difficulty sleeping at night: This post is made in jest and it meant for comedic consumption only, what we in the internet posting biz like to call "a bit of friendly ribbing" or what the Brits calling "taking the piss". I'm not sure if this phrase is also popular in Australia, but I would assume that if it's not, they have an equally charming and amusing phrase to fill the void which Boner can clue us in on. Personally, I like the fact that Brightside pimps a lesser known auteur and his efforts are appreciated as are meg's, although the Cthulhu fascination is a bit more perplexing. But I haven't read any Lovecraft, so that probably explains it.

Ha, no worries. I know I've been a pest about Ruiz. Not half as bad as I am on the other forum, though.:P I'm a bit scared of how people will receive him, and considering how much I've been mentioning him, it would be pretty embarrassing if the reception was bad, or even lukewarm.

[MacGuffin]

Ha, no worries. I know I've been a pest about Ruiz. Not half as bad as I am on the other forum, though.:P I'm a bit scared of how people will receive him, and considering how much I've been mentioning him, it would be pretty embarrassing if the reception was bad, or even lukewarm.

Have you read any of Jorge Luis Borges' stories? He's often compared to Greenaway and Ruiz.

[Derek]

Ha, no worries. I know I've been a pest about Ruiz. Not half as bad as I am on the other forum, though.:P I'm a bit scared of how people will receive him, and considering how much I've been mentioning him, it would be pretty embarrassing if the reception was bad, or even lukewarm.

He has a strong rep with those who've seen a lot of his work. I have a feeling I'd love Time Regained if I saw it again.

[Spinal]

Whoa, Bluebeard is on Instant Watch. Nice.

How nice to revisit Fellowship of the Ring several years removed from the hype. And to watch it with someone who was still in his mother's belly when it was originally released. Favorite moment I hadn't remembered: the soft clinking of the arrows being fired at Aragorn after Gandalf's fall. Impressive. That first film has always been my favorite. Hope the other two don't let me down.

[B-side]

Have you read any of Jorge Luis Borges' stories? He's often compared to Greenaway and Ruiz.

If I ever decide to start reading, I'll have to look him up. I'm more enthusiastic about Ruiz than Greenaway, but that could be due to my lack of the same experience with Greenaway.


He has a strong rep with those who've seen a lot of his work. I have a feeling I'd love Time Regained if I saw it again.

I hesitate to go into much detail as I'm a notoriously poor writer and I think people benefit from not having Ruiz's idiosyncrasies and stylistic flourishes detailed to them beforehand, but I always urge people to enter with an open mind regardless of how implicit that may be.

[Spinal]

Drama removed. Carry on, my wayward sons.

[MacGuffin]

Lay your weary heads to rest! Don't you crrrrryyyy no morrrre. . .

[B-side]

*additional Kansas reference, this time involving the arguably as popular "Dust in the Wind"*

[BuffaloWilder]

Oh god oh god oh god what's going on in this thread

[B-side]

I see you rather enjoyed That Day, kopello. My Ruiz army is growing.

[Spinal]

Oh god oh god oh god what's going on in this thread

Bad trip?

[BuffaloWilder]

I fear all this aggression is a signal of the end.

kbP2zIa9HIM

[MadMan]

Damn, I seem to miss all the drama these days.

Anyways Spinal knowing your movie taste I bet for some reason(s) or another you find The Two Towers to be better than ROTK. I think that ROTK is the best in the trilogy, but I like FOTR the most out of the bunch. Mainly for Viggeo and Sean Bean's amazing performances, along with of course Ian McKellen being magnificent as Gandalf.

Not sure why we're doing weekend viewings lists already, as its only Wednesday :P

[Ezee E]

Damn. I missed out on what happened too.

I also think I should take a return to the LOTR trilogy. Maybe I'll borrow my brothers' extended editions this time around.

[MadMan]

I'm still burned out from the LOTRs movies (I watched the first way way too much-two viewings for the second one, three viewings for the third) but I think I'm at a point where I might finally revisit them all.

[Ivan Drago]

Drama removed. Carry on, my wayward sons.

Woah, what'd I miss?

[Derek]

Woah, what'd I miss?

You didn't miss a thing. It was less drama than the recent Gaga-related fiasco.

[Spinal]

I think that ROTK is the best in the trilogy, but I like FOTR the most out of the bunch.

How's that work?

[Winston*]

How's that work?

It works by MadMan saying it.

[B-side]

Watermelon Man was better than I expected. Such an energetic melting pot of styles. And Cambridge really give it his all in the lead.

[soitgoes...]

Weekend (though it seems 24 hours too soon for this):

Irreversible (insanely stoked for this now)
Ceddo
Killing of a Chinese Bookie
Eraserhead
Being There
Real Life

A little something for all my moods.

[Skitch]

Weekend:

The Children
Amedeus
Predators
Dial M for Murder

[Grouchy]

So I finally saw Showgirls. I have to say, it's an insanely fun movie. Verhoeven's tracking camera makes it all very dynamic, with characters often appearing out of nowhere and doing stuff with the speed of a cartoon. I also don't think I've ever seen an American movie that's not porn so interested in skin. I'm not exactly gonna comment on the "is it a satire?" debate. I think some of it is clearly intended for laughs and some of it is funny because of how ridiculously dramatic it all is. The dialogue, however, is completely fucking surreal, specially Gina Gershon's. I wouldn't mind a Nomi Malone lap dance right now. Agent Cooper seemed to be having fun.

[dreamdead]

Weekend:

Forbidden Games
Beloved
Lost: Season 5

[number8]

How's that work?

Madman has outdone himself. He is truly... mad.

[number8]

STFU.

Truth angers you.

[Qrazy]

Truth angers you.

The dementors are so clearly a pale imitation of The Ringwraiths it's not even funny. Ringwraiths exude terror. They have weight, substance, intelligence and freakin' implode when they're killed. Dementors move around like cattle and they have all of the physical substance of poorly rendered CGI.

[kopello]

I see you rather enjoyed That Day, kopello. My Ruiz army is growing.

Yea I really enjoyed it, great dark humor. Reminded me of one of Bunuel's later works.

[D_Davis]

How's that work?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4503893512_5a3945f10b_o.jpg

[Scar]

First time I watched FOTR, I loved the Wringwraiths up until the point that Vigo shows up and drives them all away. They lossed a significant amount of 'bad ass' points during that scene.

Made me sad.

[Ivan Drago]

Weekend (though it seems 24 hours too soon for this):

Irreversible (insanely stoked for this now)

Can't wait to hear what you think of it!

Weekend:

Manderlay
The A-Team
Lost: Season 2 (or 3 depending on how far I get the next 2 days)

[B-side]

Yea I really enjoyed it, great dark humor. Reminded me of one of Bunuel's later works.

Well, I'm pleased. I may try and see that one myself tonight.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Weekend Viewings:

JCVD
The Devil (Zulawski)
Final 2 World Cup Matches
Love Streams

[Russ]

Wats? I finished Season 2 - The Wire. Expect nothing but hyperbole from me. I'm officially on the bandwagon.

Weekend: More Wire and trying to finish up Jacobs' Star Spangled to Death.

[Rowland]

Weekend:

One of three Kurosawas on my DVR: Scandal, I Live in Fear, or The Bad Sleep Well
Babysitter Wanted

[Watashi]

Wats? I finished Season 2 - The Wire. Expect nothing but hyperbole from me. I'm officially on the bandwagon.

Weekend: More Wire and trying to finish up Jacobs' Star Spangled to Death.
I haven't finished it yet. I've been busy with other stuff.

[Milky Joe]

I saw MacGruber. It was hilarious.

[BuffaloWilder]

I'm being cautious - take a vote, should baby doll and I continue our raucous Fincher-centric debate with a word in edgewise by everyone else, or would my response get deleted?

[Spinal]

I'm being cautious - take a vote, should baby doll and I continue our raucous Fincher-centric debate with a word in edgewise by everyone else, or would my response get deleted?

I only deleted the stuff that involved people making personal comments about other people. Raucous debate is perfectly fine. And usually, people kid each other without it being an issue. This particular discussion seemed to be heading in a bad direction though, so I just cut it off.

[Spinal]

Also, just because I deleted one of your posts, it doesn't necessarily mean you did anything 'wrong'. It might have just meant it was a part of a larger discussion that was getting in the way of film discussion.

[BuffaloWilder]

I didn't know you deleted any of my stuff in particular - but, it did seem like that whole debate got a sizable chunk wished away into the cornfield.

Yours truly is a vengeful hand, Spinal. :lol:

[Skitch]

Do you guys ever feel like you just can't ever catch up with films?

I've been a fanatic as long as I can remember. I cancelled my cable a decade ago to make more room for cinema. I watch far more films from far more decades and genres than anyone I know (personally). Yet I'm still behind. I'm only 31, so I think that may be an issue. I'm doing my best to catch up with all the films that exsisted before me.

That being said, last night was my first viewing of North By Northwest, and I'm a little depressed that such a fine piece of cinema took me so long to get around to.

I think if I was independently wealthy I wouldn't be one of these playboys flying around the world, hang gliding off Peruvian mountain tops. I'm so pathetic I'd probably go to Best Buy and get a shopping cart, jack my Netfrix up to max, and never be heard from again.

[Spinal]

I didn't know you deleted any of my stuff in particular - but, it did seem like that whole debate got a sizable chunk wished away into the cornfield.

Yours truly is a vengeful hand, Spinal. :lol:

I truly tried to leave all the film debate untouched. If you're missing something in particular, let me know and I can try to retrieve it.

[Qrazy]

Do you guys ever feel like you just can't ever catch up with films?

I've been a fanatic as long as I can remember. I cancelled my cable a decade ago to make more room for cinema. I watch far more films from far more decades and genres than anyone I know (personally). Yet I'm still behind. I'm only 31, so I think that may be an issue. I'm doing my best to catch up with all the films that exsisted before me.

That being said, last night was my first viewing of North By Northwest, and I'm a little depressed that such a fine piece of cinema took me so long to get around to.

I think if I was independently wealthy I wouldn't be one of these playboys flying around the world, hang gliding off Peruvian mountain tops. I'm so pathetic I'd probably go to Best Buy and get a shopping cart, jack my Netfrix up to max, and never be heard from again.

http://psdblog.worldbank.org/.m/.a/6a00d834515e9269e20120a750927f 970b-500wi

[MacGuffin]

Has anybody seen this Le grand jeu that Masters of Cinema is releasing? It's supposedly one of those under-seen classics.

[B-side]

Has anybody seen this Le grand jeu that Masters of Cinema is releasing? It's supposedly one of those under-seen classics.

Feyder or Siodmak?

[MacGuffin]

Feyder or Siodmak?

Feyder.

[B-side]

Feyder.

Hm. I may have to check it out as it's already on KG.

[B-side]

Well, I'm pleased. I may try and see that one myself tonight.

Just watched it. I agree, it does have a bit of a Bunuel vibe. Certainly the most humorous of the Ruiz's I've seen. Good time.

[baby doll]

I'm being cautious - take a vote, should baby doll and I continue our raucous Fincher-centric debate with a word in edgewise by everyone else, or would my response get deleted?Bring it, bitch. [Emoticon smiley face.]

[B-side]

So, like, why is Gena Rowlands being such a raging cunt over Carney releasing the first version of Shadows and the longer version of Faces? Or have they been released already and I'm retarded?

[Boner M]

Melbourne film fest lineup: new Godard, Rivette, Bujalski, Hong Sang-Soo, Assayas' Carlos, Lee Chang-Dong's Poetry, Enter the Void, Let Each One Go Where He May, Au Hasard Balthasar revival, Sweetgrass aaaaand a Joe Dante spotlight w/ his 6-hour student film The Movie Orgy (Dante will also be in town for intros and other stuff).

Excited for all the films, though it's a pretty heady lineup and I'll probably have to pepper it with some token 'fun' films. Sadly I'll be missing Trash Humpers, Certified Copy and a few others.

[baby doll]

Just a thought: Is The Wizard of Oz secretly a Marxist allegory about product mystification?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just a thought: Is The Wizard of Oz secretly a Marxist allegory about product mystification?

omg, i was just about to ask this! No foolin'

[baby doll]

omg, i was just about to ask this! No foolin'Right after I wrote this, I thought: I'm sure some one else must have had this thought before, but I couldn't think who (whom?).

[Spaceman Spiff]

Right after I wrote this, I thought: I'm sure some one else must have had this thought before, but I couldn't think who (whom?).

To be honest, I don't think there was much behind that movie other than a couple of screenwriters sitting around smoking spliffs and coming up with something wacky that would make some serious dosh. I'm not sure if it's much of an allegory.

[baby doll]

To be honest, I don't think there was much behind that movie other than a couple of screenwriters sitting around smoking spliffs and coming up with something wacky that would make some serious dosh. I'm not sure if it's much of an allegory.Still, it's pretty uncanny. I mean, just as products are mystified by ads which endow them with supernatural powers (i.e., product x will magically get you laid), the characters go looking for the wizard believing he'll be able to transform them. But he's not a wizard, he's just some guy, and what he gives them are worthless objects: a diploma (a pretty pessimistic take on higher education), a cheap plastic heart, and a medal.

[Qrazy]

Still, it's pretty uncanny. I mean, just as products are mystified by ads which endow them with supernatural powers (i.e., product x will magically get you laid), the characters go looking for the wizard believing he'll be able to transform them. But he's not a wizard, he's just some guy, and what he gives them are worthless objects: a diploma (a pretty pessimistic take on higher education), a cheap plastic heart, and a medal.

Ehh, he also gives them sage advice which clues them into the fact that they never needed the supernatural objects in the first place. The objects aren't really the point. They are just 'awards' symbolic of the journey they had to take and of their new found knowledge. Which to a certain degree could support your point but...

Your position is fcomplicated by the fact that the wizard then flies away in a hot air balloon and Dorothy taps her special shoes together to get home... two objects which are useful and one which remains supernatural. However it is highly likely that Baum did intend a great deal of political allegory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_interpretations_of_T he_Wonderful_Wizard_of_Oz) By the by Spaceman, The Wizard of Oz was a book first.

[D_Davis]

Anyone seen Vampire Girl Vs. Frankenstein Girl, yet? Thinking of going this weekend. As good as Tokyo Gore Police?

[MacGuffin]

Melbourne film fest lineup: new Godard, Rivette, Bujalski, Hong Sang-Soo, Assayas' Carlos, Lee Chang-Dong's Poetry, Enter the Void, Let Each One Go Where He May, Au Hasard Balthasar revival, Sweetgrass aaaaand a Joe Dante spotlight w/ his 6-hour student film The Movie Orgy (Dante will also be in town for intros and other stuff).

Excited for all the films, though it's a pretty heady lineup and I'll probably have to pepper it with some token 'fun' films. Sadly I'll be missing Trash Humpers, Certified Copy and a few others.

I find it strange (and unfair) that Australia gets better film festivals than Hollywood.

[Ezee E]

Melbourne film fest lineup: new Godard, Rivette, Bujalski, Hong Sang-Soo, Assayas' Carlos, Lee Chang-Dong's Poetry, Enter the Void, Let Each One Go Where He May, Au Hasard Balthasar revival, Sweetgrass aaaaand a Joe Dante spotlight w/ his 6-hour student film The Movie Orgy (Dante will also be in town for intros and other stuff).

Excited for all the films, though it's a pretty heady lineup and I'll probably have to pepper it with some token 'fun' films. Sadly I'll be missing Trash Humpers, Certified Copy and a few others.
When is it?

I'm trying to predict Telluride's lineup.

[Grouchy]

http://totallydublin.ie/blog/wp-content/tetro.jpg

It's strange that it took me this long to see Tetro because I was very curious about it. I've met several people who worked in the production of the film and I'd heard stories about what a mess it all was, and how scenes were changed on the spot and disorder more or less reigned. I know a guy who took the Tetrocelli gravestone prop home and now proudly exhibits it in his bathroom.

The movie is kind of disconcerting from the start. It sort of reminded me of Rumble Fish in that it's an intimate family drama set in a black and white fantasy. The look of this movie is stranger, though, with stark widescreen compositions interrupted by color flashbacks recorded like digital home movies. It's a demanding movie in its own way, and sometimes it asks of us to fill in some of the story with our imaginations, at least until some key facts about this family's past are revealed. Gallo, which might have seemed an odd choice at first, brings the tormented artist routine perfectly. Maribel Verdú and Carmen Maura (no effort is made to hide their obvious Spain accents) support him quite well.

Once I got used to how strange the film looks and feels, I started to enjoy it. At best, though, it's a mixed bag. Some scenes are eye-rollingly awful and even quite random. Others are genuinely fresh and fun. The story unfolds with a lot of artificial flavour, as if it were an opera instead of a contemporary drama. Since the movie is so steeped on this bohemian lifestyle its characters inhabit, it's strange when a cellphone or a laptop appear. Leticia Brédice appears towards the end in a sexpot role and so does Susana Giménez, esentially playing herself. Moments like these made me wonder if Coppola just had a lot of wine and a lot of food with a lot of people and started making up a story as everything went along. Don't get me wrong, though. Tetro is impressive filmmaking that every once in a while becomes something so out there and unusual that, as an audience, I felt just a little bit alienated.

I had heard negative comments, one of which was to the effect that Coppola had taken a tourist's stance towards Buenos Aires, showing foreign-friendly spots like the Café Tortoni instead of really delving into the city. This is true, but I don't think it was Coppola's intention at all to offer a contemporary, real portrait of Buenos Aires. If he did, then yes, he failed miserably, but I think the whole movie takes place in a daydream bohemian world that's an idealization of my city. In that context, I don't mind that the Café Tortoni is highlighted even though no local person who isn't a complete asshole would sit there for coffee. And I'd like to point out that Coppola has a pivotal scene of the movie take place during a recording of Radio La Colifata, which is a non-profit radio show broadcast from Borda insane asylum and with full participation of the inmates. That's at least something that's not in every tourist's guidebook.

I applaud Coppola for making a genuinely strange movie. When it works, it works.

[MacGuffin]

I'm surprised at all the lukewarm responses toward Tetro - I honestly thought it'd get more acceptance around here. Which films do you reckon do a good job at portraying Buenos Aires, Grouchy?

[Rowland]

Never Give a Sucker an Even Break (Cline, 1941) **½

My first exposure to W.C. Fields, and from what I've read, perhaps not the most neophyte-friendly choice. This works best when it's either allowing Fields to comment upon or even control the action with his comic riffing, or unabashedly indulging in the anarchistic glee of its surreal satire. Unfortunately, the former is given little space to breathe through much of the hyperactive film (thus an early, strikingly laid back diner sequence being a highlight), and Fields' mumbled line delivery renders at least a quarter of his quips unintellible, which proved to be a most frustrating experience (and a warning to ensure the availability of subtitles when approaching future W.C. Fields joints).

And as for the absurd hodge-podge of heightened nonsense flung at the screen that passes as the narrative, it reminds of the Marx Brothers in its invigorating, frequently perverse anti-logic as well as how exasperating and exhausting such an approach can often prove to be without careful calibration as the film carries along into its distended final stretch, closing with a random chase sequence thats sheer obligatoriness as a Fields trademark is the joke in of itself, as the chase on its own merits is only moderately impressive compared to similar sequences accomplished even in many silent film classics.

The burlesquing of the film industry is blatant and likely innovative for its time, but also somewhat off-puttingly bitter and more than a bit irritating in the case of co-star Billie Jean, whose ear-splitting musical numbers are, however deservingly, contemptful to both the industry and the audience. I admire the film's spirit, even as I found it frequently numbing to watch and only sporadically funny. I'm likely underrating this, but I suspect a future revisit, with further exposure to the Fields persona under my belt and subtitles so I can consistently make out what the hell is being said, would likely improve the experience.

[number8]

Happy Together!

[Grouchy]

Happy Together!
Well, yes. Another outsider, romantic view but from another part of the spectrum entirely.

Assassination Tango is a lot more realistic. I also think that movie was kind of boring, though. I'm trying to come up with Argentine films that show what life in the city is like and coming up with a blank. Maybe Trapero's latest Carancho.

[B-side]

Thoughts on Stalker, Bosco?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thoughts on Stalker, Bosco?

I know you didn't ask me, but for such a compelling concept, it is a preposterously boring movie.

[Derek]

I know you didn't ask me, but for such a compelling concept, it is a preposterously boring movie.

You're right, he didn't ask you. ;)

[B-side]

I know you didn't ask me, but for such a compelling concept, it is a preposterously boring movie.

Nonsense.

[soitgoes...]

In the Realm of the Senses was a disappointment. It's a shame this is the film that Oshima is most known for, as it seems fairly atypical from the rest of what I've seen.

[B-side]

In the Realm of the Senses was a disappointment. It's a shame this is the film that Oshima is most known for, as it seems fairly atypical from the rest of what I've seen.

Bah. I guess balmak and I will remain its only fans, unless I'm missing someone, and I probably am. I'm interested in your thoughts on this, though:


I Stand Alone (Noé 98) ****

[baby doll]

In the Realm of the Senses was a disappointment. It's a shame this is the film that Oshima is most known for, as it seems fairly atypical from the rest of what I've seen.I'm more concerned with your two star rating for Real Life. What's up with that?

[Spaceman Spiff]

In the Realm of the Senses was a disappointment. It's a shame this is the film that Oshima is most known for, as it seems fairly atypical from the rest of what I've seen.

I thought it a decent skin flick.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You're right, he didn't ask you. ;)

How dare you

[soitgoes...]

Bah. I guess balmak and I will remain its only fans, unless I'm missing someone, and I probably am. I'm interested in your thoughts on this, though:Spinal.

Love the energy. The voice over narration works perfectly in this film, something that many films muck up. The two most talked about scenes definitely live up to their reputation, but both fall short of the two in Irreversible. I have heard that miscarriage scene at the beginning sets up the Butcher as being completely cruel too soon in the film, taking away the impact of the ending, but I think the progression from Carne to I Stand Alone as the perfect continuance. I love how Noé gives the viewer the option of choosing which outcome is "best," knowing full well there is no best. I can see how this film can be hated, but it totally worked for me. The only weak part was the very beginning prior to the Carne recap. I'm not sure why it was included.

Also, I loved how the camera leaves the apartment and hangs over the street outside for a few moments before the end. Then in Irreversible, Noé again leaves the Butcher's apartment and hovers over the street for a few moments before continuing on with that film.

FWIW, the biggest thing that didn't work for me in Irreversible was the many parallels in the Belucci/Cassel sex scene to the rape scene. I don't think there was a need for "foreshadowing" to that extent when he was going for crazy in your face realism. He was being too cute.

[soitgoes...]

I'm more concerned with your two star rating for Real Life. What's up with that?
Albert Brooks and I do not jive. At all. Loved Grodin and the camera head piece things though.

[B-side]

I haven't bothered with Carne yet. I should get on that.

[soitgoes...]

I haven't bothered with Carne yet. I should get on that.
It's good, and if you've seen I Stand Alone then you got the Cliff Notes version of it. There is a definite progression in editing and cinematography through all three films which is neat to see. I made a point of watching them in order.

[soitgoes...]

I thought it a decent skin flick.A skin flick that ends with genital mutilation always sounds like good fun!

[B-side]

It's good, and if you've seen I Stand Alone then you got the Cliff Notes version of it. There is a definite progression in editing and cinematography through all three films which is neat to see. I made a point of watching them in order.

I'll probably just marathon them sometime before I see Enter the Void.

[MacGuffin]

In the Realm of the Senses was a disappointment. It's a shame this is the film that Oshima is most known for, as it seems fairly atypical from the rest of what I've seen.

This is a relief. Actually, I have no doubts that he's a bad director, I just wish I would have went with Empire of Passion (which I still haven't seen) as my intro to his work. I know it's not highly lauded, but at least it's better than this big-budget porno.

Glad to see you liked Irréversible, by the way. I posted some thoughts (http://www.match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=2169) here a year or so ago, so you should check those out if you're interested. I go into detail about the symbolism and themes of the film, but honestly, I'm a big fan of the cinematographer, Benoît Debie, who is in my opinion one of the most talented cinematographers working today. If you want further proof, check out Innocence, by Gaspar Noé's wife. It is seriously filmed like a dream.

[Spinal]

I thought it a decent skin flick.

I don't think it works that way at all. I think the point is that you're repulsed by all the sex midway through. There's that part where the woman remarks on the stench of them. They become so immersed in each other that they lose contact with the world around them.

[Spinal]

... big-budget porno.



:|

[MacGuffin]

Ron Jeremy looked like he basically lost contact of the world around him in Slut Master Hoes #7.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't think it works that way at all. I think the point is that you're repulsed by all the sex midway through. There's that part where the woman remarks on the stench of them. They become so immersed in each other that they lose contact with the world around them.

I'm sorry. That sounds incredibly hot to me.

[MacGuffin]

Basically, I feel like Oshima was limited with this movie and that's why me and probably a lot of others don't like it. I think that the studio was really on his back about those sex scenes and as such a lot of the political backdrop and exposition is really half-assed.

[Spinal]

Ron Jeremy looked like he basically lost contact of the world around him in Slut Master Hoes #7.

This is not just me making shit up. The director's intent is clear if you watch the film. He makes a note of showing the political uprising going on nearby. I presume the director of Slut Master Hoes #7 was not quite as meticulous in his craft. But I have not seen it, so I will defer to your assessment.

[MacGuffin]

This is not just me making shit up. The director's intent is clear if you watch the film. He makes a note of showing the political uprising going on nearby. I presume the director of Slut Master Hoes #7 was not quite as meticulous in his craft. But I have not seen it, so I will defer to your assessment.

I was joking. :)

That said, I don't think the politics in In the Realm of the Senses are as clear-cut as you'd like me to believe.

[Spinal]

I was joking. :)



I know. But I didn't want my essential point to get dismissed. I think it's an effective film that has more in common with Salo than it does with Behind the Green Door.

[B-side]

I didn't take any note of any political subtext in the film, I just enjoyed it as it was. Why people seem so eager to marginalize anything to do with sex as just porn as if that's an insult is beyond me.

[MacGuffin]

I know. But I didn't want my essential point to get dismissed. I think it's an effective film that has more in common with Salo than it does with Behind the Green Door.

I can understand how you would like it. I think it would be safe to say it has a lot in common with Breillat's movies also, which as you may know by now, I don't care for very much either.

Didn't Stanley Kubrick praise Behind the Green Door? I always thought it was one of those porno-chic movies that certain circles deemed an arthouse success.

[Spinal]

I can understand how you would like it. I think it would be safe to say it has a lot in common with Breillat's movies also, which as you may know by now, I don't care for very much either.

Didn't Stanley Kubrick praise Behind the Green Door? I always thought it was one of those porno-chic movies that certain circles deemed an arthouse success.

Oh, it has everything to do with Breillat. It's one of her favorite films and has no doubt influenced her body of work.

Haven't seen BtGD, but Wikipedia confirms your memory regarding it's positive critical reception.

[soitgoes...]

This is a relief. Actually, I have no doubts that he's a bad director, I just wish I would have went with Empire of Passion (which I still haven't seen) as my intro to his work. I know it's not highly lauded, but at least it's better than this big-budget porno.
Yeah, I don't necessarily see it as being a porno. As Spinal said, you become sick of all the sex. Eroticism is not the film's strong suit. I just didn't think there was anything special going on.

Glad to see you liked Irréversible, by the way. I posted some thoughts (http://www.match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=2169) here a year or so ago, so you should check those out if you're interested. I go into detail about the symbolism and themes of the film, but honestly, I'm a big fan of the cinematographer, Benoît Debie, who is in my opinion one of the most talented cinematographers working today. If you want further proof, check out Innocence, by Gaspar Noé's wife. It is seriously filmed like a dream.Cool. Thanks.

[Spinal]

Roger Ebert saw BtGD. (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19731211/REVIEWS/312110301/1023)

No star rating, but he does mention Kubrick.

[MacGuffin]

Yeah, I don't necessarily see it as being a porno. As Spinal said, you become sick of all the sex. Eroticism is not the film's strong suit. I just didn't think there was anything special going on.

I know no one wants to get into semantics, but I'm pretty sure I read about how the studio behind the movie specifically wanted it to be a hardcore film. Whether or not "hardcore film" and "porno" mean the same thing to you, that's what I meant.

[Derek]

I know no one wants to get into semantics, but I'm pretty sure I read about how the studio behind the movie specifically wanted it to be a hardcore film. Whether or not "hardcore film" and "porno" mean the same thing to you, that's what I meant.

Ok, what do you mean by "hardcore film" than? "Porno" or "hardcore film" generally make people think of containing full penetration for the purpose of titillation and with little to no artistic goals. Whether or not this is what the studio wanted, I think it's clear that Oshima created something beyond just a skin flick.

[Spinal]

I recently checked out Oshima's Sing a Song of Sex from the library. What a great title.

[MacGuffin]

Ok, what do you mean by "hardcore film" than? "Porno" or "hardcore film" generally make people think of containing full penetration for the purpose of titillation and with little to no artistic goals. Whether or not this is what the studio wanted, I think it's clear that Oshima created something beyond just a skin flick.

Sorry, I didn't really mean or want to imply that the movie is nothing more than porn. I definitely see artistic value, and when I say "hardcore film", I guess I'm referring to a movie with hardcore sex (i.e., penetration, whether it's titillating or not).

[B-side]

Wait, why isn't porn art?

[Qrazy]

I didn't care for In the Realm of the Senses because I found it to be formally mediocre.

[MacGuffin]

Wait, why isn't porn art?

Never said it wasn't. Still, lots of art has no merit.

[Winston*]

Wait, why isn't porn art?

This discussion's getting in the realm of the senseless.

[soitgoes...]

I know no one wants to get into semantics, but I'm pretty sure I read about how the studio behind the movie specifically wanted it to be a hardcore film. Whether or not "hardcore film" and "porno" mean the same thing to you, that's what I meant.Well yes and no. It was Oshima who wanted to change Japan's public decency laws. I don't know if it was the studio, since the studio wasn't even Japanese, but rather French. It was made as a political statement, which entirely failed, as the same laws are in effect, and Oshima almost went to jail. So yes it is a hardcore film (there is penetration), but as porn I don't know (not exactly titillating).

[soitgoes...]

I recently checked out Oshima's Sing a Song of Sex from the library. What a great title.
Japanese films win at movie titles.

[soitgoes...]

I didn't care for In the Realm of the Senses because I found it to be formally mediocre.This.

[Derek]

I didn't care for In the Realm of the Senses because I found it to be formally mediocre.

I did too, which is odd considering all the other Oshima films I've seen are formally audacious.

[MacGuffin]

I dunno, guys. I mean, I thought the sets were pretty cool and all and it definitely could have evoked some sort of atmosphere that, for me, would have given the movie a little more intrigue.

[B-side]

Never said it wasn't. Still, lots of art has no merit.

You're sure making it seem like it intrinsically has no merit, which I disagree with entirely.


This discussion's getting in the realm of the senseless.

It's a perfectly reasonable discussion.

[Spinal]

Everybody wants porn. That's why they call it porn.

[MacGuffin]

You're sure making it seem like it intrinsically has no merit, which I disagree with entirely.

Yeah, I really don't know what to say. I don't think I could look at porn so generally and make any sort of judgement call of its merits.

[B-side]

Everybody wants Spinal. That's why he's named after the (arguably) most important set of bones in your body.

[Spinal]

Everybody wants Spinal.

If only that were true.

[B-side]

If only that were true.

Maybe not the lesbians, but we all know they're just faking it, right?

[B-side]

That wasn't as witty as I was hoping. You can go ahead and delete that if you want.

[Spinal]

Maybe not the lesbians, but we all know they're just faking it, right?

It's all politics.