28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Spun Lepton]

Well, I didn't think it was pretentious, but if I was to use your definition, then it would be, seeing as most of the jokes were humorless. It wasn't painful, because most of the actors are good, but it was, yeah, dull.

Pretentiousness isn't the exclusive result of overestimating your comedic abilities, only one of many. Usually, if you're already a little pretentious AND you think you're a comedic genius, your shitty comedy will reflect it.

[dreamdead]

Daniel Davis, do you have any thoughts of Save the Green Planet anywhere on the web? This film is just so completely eccentric and tonally different from other films, and I'd like to see some responses...

[megladon8]

Would anyone here tear me apart if I were to say the first Terminator is better than the second, and the best of the series?

Also, I've been re-watching the Nightmare on Elm Street movies. I'd rate them as such...


A Nightmare on Elm Street - 9
A Nightmare on Elm Street Part II: Freddy's Revenge - 5.5
A Nightmare on Elm Street III: Dream Warriors - 7.5
A Nightmare on Elm Street IV: The Dream Master - 6
A Nightmare on Elm Street V: The Dream Child - 4
Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare - 3
A New Nightmare - 8

[transmogrifier]

Would anyone here tear me apart if I were to say the first Terminator is better than the second, and the best of the series?

I don't think you need to worry; I think the third movie is the best in the series.

[Raiders]

Would anyone here tear me apart if I were to say the first Terminator is better than the second, and the best of the series?

I hope not. You're correct. Arnold is a much better and more terrifying villain than Robert Patrick.

[megladon8]

I hope not. You're correct. Arnold is a much better and more terrifying villain than Robert Patrick.


I also really liked Michael Biehn as Kyle Reese, and having a human versus the terminator (rather than terminator vs. better terminator) made the action more intense.

And it doesn't have Edward Furlong.

[number8]

Edward Furlong > Michael Biehn.

It's just one of those undisputed truths.

[Raiders]

Edward Furlong > Michael Biehn.

It's just one of those undisputed truths.

Heh. No.

...

Wait, are you even serious?

[Qrazy]

Daniel Davis, do you have any thoughts of Save the Green Planet anywhere on the web? This film is just so completely eccentric and tonally different from other films, and I'd like to see some responses...

I did not like it much. The first two thirds were OK, at least memorable, and then the last third including all of the idiotic twists was just obnoxious.

[number8]

Heh. No.

...

Wait, are you even serious?

Yes.

[Mara]

But the evolution of Sarah Connor between the first and second films was fantastic.

In fact, the T2 Sarah Connor may be one of my favorite female characters ever, and I'm not even a huge fan of the franchise.

In the first film she was all... weepy.

[megladon8]

But the evolution of Sarah Connor between the first and second films was fantastic.

In fact, the T2 Sarah Connor may be one of my favorite female characters ever, and I'm not even a huge fan of the franchise.

In the first film she was all... weepy.


I totally agree, Mara.

It's only a slight edge that I give the first. The second is still quite possibly the best action movie of all time, and like you said, Sarah Connor's character growth is fantastic.

I love the romance angle between Kyle Reese and Sarah Connor, and really missed Michael Biehn's presence in the second movie. Plus, ever since I was a kid, I found the concept fascinating - Kyle Reese is friends with her son, and younger than him, and comes back in time to protect her, thereby impregnating her with her son.

As people have demonstrated in the T4 thread, overthinking it shows that it makes no sense. But it's still neat.

[Spun Lepton]

Edward Furlong > Michael Biehn.

It's just one of those undisputed truths.

What's it like living in Bizarro World?!?!

Heh, that joke never gets old.

[Winston*]

Nick Stahl's the most talented guy to male lead a Terminator movie.

[dreamdead]

I did not like it much. The first two thirds were OK, at least memorable, and then the last third including all of the idiotic twists was just obnoxious.

Yeah, some of the last act for Save the Green Planet doesn't quite work. I think it's more in the plotting than actual performance or Jang's direction, though Jang is responsible for the writing. Shin Ha-kyun is especially amazing in the lead role, layering sad nakedness or emotional fury against one another; nice to see such range after a good but not revelatory performance in Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance. The greatest strength here is how madcap Jang designs the film, which allows for utter abandon in several places where a more stringent direction style would kill the energy or verve that's woven throughout. The diversity of genres that this film cycles through is stupendous, and its relative success in each mutes some of the criticisms that I would otherwise level at it for not remaining consistent. And though parts in the last act start down that road of invincibility, I like the despondency that closes the film. And some of the filmic techniques, culled from Kubrick and Fincher, have a nice sense of film history.

Also took in the 2006 filmed production of Sondheim's Company. Despite a slight misogyny that feels a bit too 1970s in its gender politics, where women are largely perceived of as flighty or black widows, the actual score and songs are wonderful. Marry Me a Little (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzA97oMW2_M) is gorgeous, and the staging for Being Alive (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBBPKedba5o) is just immense, even if some of the last-second choreography seems a bit obvious in retrospect. And Doyle's use of the actors-as-instruments metaphor, while likely not Brechtian, is a nice touch from this person who hasn't seen the trick before...

[MadMan]

I give the slight edge to T2. But both it and the first Terminator are fantastic movies, each with their own styles that make them unique and awesome. The first film is a great B-movie type flick, the second a kickass action movie, and each are intelligently made.

Weekend:

*MSTK: The Creeping Terror
*Walkabout

[The Mike]

Heh. No.

...

Wait, are you even serious?

This was my thought too.

[Ivan Drago]

Why did I put off seeing Ferris Bueller's Day Off for almost 21 years?

It's been a long time since I laughed that hard so many times during a movie.

[Spinal]

I'm getting soft. I've Loved You So Long was just about too painful for me to take on a Friday night.

Let's see ... what else do I have out from Netflix? Johnny Got His Gun. Oh, Jesus Christ ...

[Ezee E]

I've Loved You So Long is a very tough movie. So you're not getting soft. It's just a change of pace after such movies as Monsters VS. Aliens and Muppets From Space is all.

[BuffaloWilder]

I've Loved You So Long is a very tough movie. So you're not getting soft. It's just a change of pace after such movies as Monsters VS. Aliens and Muppets From Space is all.

http://www.theworldofgoddess.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/kelso_burn2.gif




Kind of.

[B-side]

Well, women are still concerned about it, like men are still concerned about penis size, even though for most it doesn't matter much at all outside of extreme cases. It's probably a bigger issue than you'd think, but because I think talking about it is still somewhat taboo, and many women don't like to... you don't hear about it.

Yeah, that was talked about in the film. Obviously, there's a bigger issue at hand here and I assume most of the women who are concerned about it really shouldn't be at all. I'm in line with Qrazy in that we all have preferences, but pizza is pizza and such. It's not about penetration, but oral. There was one extreme example in the film that had me reeling a bit. You could definitely understand why she'd want the surgery, though I felt bad even having the reaction I did. Personally, too much hair is the only thing that really bugs me. Makes me feel like I'm with a guy.:P

[chrisnu]

I'm getting soft. I've Loved You So Long was just about too painful for me to take on a Friday night.
That's getting bumped to the top of the list. After I re-watch Synecdoche, New York.

I'm a masochist.

Is Olivier's Hamlet considered to be the best film adaptation?

[Spinal]

Is Olivier's Hamlet considered to be the best film adaptation?

Won the Oscar, so probably considered by many to be the tops.

Branagh's is also very good. A couple goodies that don't get discussed much are the BBC version with Derek Jacobi and the Tony Richardson streamlined version with Nicol Williamson.

[BuffaloWilder]

A few links to a couple of writings about Inoshiro Honda's "Gojira" can be found at the blog below, just so you know.

[Qrazy]

Don't Make Waves (Mackendrick) - Incredibly slight and yet oh so much fun. Many people here probably won't give a damn about this one but I really enjoyed the film's carefree yet touching and nonsensical attitude. Tony Curtis plays a man who just arrives in California when his car and all of his possessions are accidentally destroyed by Claudia Cardinale. Scraping his way up from the bottom Curtis through smooth talk and tenacity Curtis manages to secure a job for himself as a pool salesman. The film focuses on a series of overlapping relationships between six or so individuals. It never really amounts to anything but it's still very enjoyable. Also the SFX work is really quite good for it's time. A sky diving jump without a parachute and a horrific mudslide are both very well rendered via miniatures and green screen.

[B-side]

I'm going to give ratings another go. Don't be surprised if they don't stick around.:P

[MacGuffin]

I'm going to give ratings another go. Don't be surprised if they don't stick around.:P

You're picking a strange way to jump back into them.

[B-side]

You're picking a strange way to jump back into them.

Am I? Part of my issue with ratings has always been distinguishing between ratings. You can give a dozen films an 8 if you're rating solely with whole numbers, but how is anyone supposed to know which of those you favor over the other? Then there's the fact that I've seemingly never been able to truly rate a film as my rating seems to change regularly in my head. I realize ratings aren't particularly important and very much relative, but that doesn't make rating one any less of a chore. Also, depending on the film, it can feel a bit like cheapening the experience by placing a numerical value on it.

[MacGuffin]

Am I? Part of my issue with ratings has always been distinguishing between ratings. You can give a dozen films an 8 if you're rating solely with whole numbers, but how is anyone supposed to know which of those you favor over the other? Then there's the fact that I've seemingly never been able to truly rate a film as my rating seems to change regularly in my head. I realize ratings aren't particularly important and very much relative, but that doesn't make rating one any less of a chore. Also, depending on the film, it can feel a bit like cheapening the experience by placing a numerical value on it.

Eh, I'm not getting into this. I was mostly referring to the fact that first you feel like you don't know how to rate movies so you don't and then you jump into what is arguably the most inarticulate style of grading. The reason people use the out of ten scale is because it is precise. The out of 100 scale is not. (But seriously, you probably shouldn't even respond to this; I don't think Match Cut needs another two pages dedicated to discussion about rating scales.)

[B-side]

Eh, I'm not getting into this. I was mostly referring to the fact that first you feel like you don't know how to rate movies so you don't and then you jump into what is arguably the most inarticulate style of grading. The reason people use the out of ten scale is because it is precise. The out of 100 scale is not. (But seriously, you probably shouldn't even respond to this; I don't think Match Cut needs another two pages dedicated to discussion about rating scales.)

I would think this would be arguably the most articulate style of grading as it's far more specific than /10.

[MacGuffin]

I would think this would be arguably the most articulate style of grading as it's far more specific than /10.

100 The best movie ever made
99 Almost the best movie ever made
98 Almost almost the best movie ever made
97 Really amazing, might be one of the best movies ever made
96 Really amazing
95 Borderline perfect
94 Borderline borderline perfect
93 Absolutely awesome
92 Awesome
91 Pretty awesome
90 Masterpiece
89 Almost a masterpiece
88 Almost almost a masterpiece
87 Awesome awesome
86 Awesome awesome awesome

Etc., etc.

10 Canonical
9 Masterpiece
8 Excellent
7 Great
6 Good
5 Average
4 Mediocre
3 Bad
2 Terrible
1 Painful
0 Irredeemable

I am having trouble seeing how the 100 point scale is more articulate.

[B-side]

100 The best movie ever made
99 Almost the best movie ever made
98 Almost almost the best movie ever made
97 Really amazing, might be one of the best movies ever made
96 Really amazing
95 Borderline perfect
94 Borderline borderline perfect
93 Absolutely awesome
92 Awesome
91 Pretty awesome
90 Masterpiece
89 Almost a masterpiece
88 Almost almost a masterpiece
87 Awesome awesome
86 Awesome awesome awesome

Etc., etc.

10 Canonical
9 Masterpiece
8 Excellent
7 Great
6 Good
5 Average
4 Mediocre
3 Bad
2 Terrible
1 Painful
0 Irredeemable

I am having trouble seeing how the 100 point scale is more articulate.

I guess this goes back to what I was saying about distinguishing between several films that rate the same, but are certainly not of equal quality.

[MacGuffin]

I guess this goes back to what I was saying about distinguishing between several films that rate the same, but are certainly not of equal quality.

That's why lists and words are used.

[B-side]

I guess this goes back to what I was saying about distinguishing between several films that rate the same, but are certainly not of equal quality.

Take these two ratings, for instance:


The Perfect Vagina (Leach, 2008) 60
Kicking and Screaming (Baumbach, 1995) 61

Both would equate to a 6 on the 10 scale. But using the /100 scale, you know that I prefer the latter to the former.

[B-side]

That's why lists and words are used.

But what if you can't really articulate what or why you prefer one to the other?

[MacGuffin]

But what if you can't really articulate what or why you prefer one to the other?

Then you probably didn't pay enough attention to the movie, especially if you have difficulty putting said movie on a list. Plus, you fail.

[B-side]

Then you probably didn't pay enough attention to the movie, especially if you have difficulty putting said movie on a list. Plus, you fail.

...

I'm just gonna assume you're joking around and drop it as it's obvious you're not going to discuss this seriously.

[trotchky]

I'm of the opinion that to attempt to assign an exact numeric value to a subjective aesthetic experience is to miss the point entirely, but hey, that's just me.

Btw Brightside, did you watch the Conrad & Butler Take a Vacation short on the Kicking and Screaming disc? Hilarious, hilarious movie; much funnier than the feature it comes packaged with, IMO.

[MacGuffin]

...

I'm just gonna assume you're joking around and drop it as it's obvious you're not going to discuss this seriously.

How am I not discussing this seriously? Or at least, as seriously as one can discuss rating scales.

[trotchky]

Take these two ratings, for instance:



Both would equate to a 6 on the 10 scale. But using the /100 scale, you know that I prefer the latter to the former.

Why not just use verbal descriptors like "good," "pretty good," "really good," "kind of good," "ungood," etc.? How do you come up with "60" and "61" in the first place?

[transmogrifier]

100 The best movie ever made
99 Almost the best movie ever made
98 Almost almost the best movie ever made
97 Really amazing, might be one of the best movies ever made
96 Really amazing
95 Borderline perfect
94 Borderline borderline perfect
93 Absolutely awesome
92 Awesome
91 Pretty awesome
90 Masterpiece
89 Almost a masterpiece
88 Almost almost a masterpiece
87 Awesome awesome
86 Awesome awesome awesome

Etc., etc.

10 Canonical
9 Masterpiece
8 Excellent
7 Great
6 Good
5 Average
4 Mediocre
3 Bad
2 Terrible
1 Painful
0 Irredeemable

I am having trouble seeing how the 100 point scale is more articulate.

This post pretty much makes no sense whatsoever. You prefer the 10 point scale, which is fine, but you've probably chosen the silliest reason possible.

[B-side]

I'm of the opinion that to attempt to assign an exact numeric value to a subjective aesthetic experience is to miss the point entirely, but hey, that's just me.

I'm kinda with you. But I do see the use in ratings if only as shorthand.


Btw Brightside, did you watch the Conrad & Butler Take a Vacation short on the Kicking and Screaming disc? Hilarious, hilarious movie; much funnier than the feature it comes packaged with, IMO.

I watched it on Netflix IW, but I'll watch it if I can find it online or something.

[B-side]

Why not just use verbal descriptors like "good," "pretty good," "really good," "kind of good," "ungood," etc.? How do you come up with "60" and "61" in the first place?

The same way anyone else comes up with a rating? The same way you come up with 3.5 instead of 4, but a bit more specific.

[B-side]

How am I not discussing this seriously? Or at least, as seriously as one can discuss rating scales.

Because you're opting for condescension instead of attempting any form of understanding.

[transmogrifier]

Why not just use verbal descriptors like "good," "pretty good," "really good," "kind of good," "ungood," etc.? How do you come up with "60" and "61" in the first place?

Trust me, it's not rocket science.

[MacGuffin]

Because you're opting for condescension instead of attempting any form of understanding.

Lighten up, man. It's just rating scales.

[B-side]

Lighten up, man. It's just rating scales.

Then why bother commenting on it at all?

[MacGuffin]

Then why bother commenting on it at all?


I was mostly referring to the fact that first you feel like you don't know how to rate movies so you don't and then you jump into what is arguably the most inarticulate style of grading.

Should we keep going in circles?

[trotchky]

The same way anyone else comes up with a rating? The same way you come up with 3.5 instead of 4, but a bit more specific.

It's more specific, but not more accurate. When you're dealing with 100 different possible value assignments for a movie...it just boggles my mind. The gradations are so minor as to be completely irrelevant, at least in my view. If you feel like you really need 100 different signifies of value to assign your latest viewing, hey, more power to you, but I just don't see it.

[trotchky]

Trust me, it's not rocket science.

It absolute isn't, and that's why I don't understand trying to make it ("it" being the experience of watching a film) rocket science.

[MacGuffin]

It's more specific, but not more accurate. When you're dealing with 100 different possible value assignments for a movie...it just boggles my mind. The gradations are so minor as to be completely irrelevant, at least in my view. If you feel like you really need 100 different signifies of value to assign your latest viewing, hey, more power to you, but I just don't see it.

Yeah, I mean, if you want more precision, why not just go for 1,000 point scale. Or better yet, 10,000 point scale. You know? I give Synecdoche, New York a 4,352.

[B-side]

Should we keep going in circles?

:pritch:


It's more specific, but not more accurate. When you're dealing with 100 different possible value assignments for a movie...it just boggles my mind. The gradations are so minor as to be completely irrelevant, at least in my view. If you feel like you really need 100 different signifies of value to assign your latest viewing, hey, more power to you, but I just don't see it.

That's fine. I can see where you're coming from.

[transmogrifier]

It absolute isn't, and that's why I don't understand trying to make it ("it" being the experience of watching a film) rocket science.

I'll repeat: the 100 point scale is not rocket science and I truly can't understand why anyone would feel the need to look down on any rating sytem at all. It's shorthand, that's all, whatever scale you use. Just because you couldn't separate films into more than ten groups doesn't mean other people can't or wouldn't want to. It's statistics and tallying and I find it rather interesting.

[transmogrifier]

Yeah, I mean, if you want more precision, why not just go for 1,000 point scale. Or better yet, 10,000 point scale. You know? I give Synecdoche, New York a 4,352.

Basically you're argument is that, because Clipper Ship Captain can't think of enough 100 different ways to describe graduation of quality in words, then the 100 scale is worthless. Which makes no sense whatsoever.

[MacGuffin]

I'll repeat: the 100 point scale is not rocket science

As trotchky said though, you're making it such.

[MacGuffin]

Basically you're argument is that, because Clipper Ship Captain can't think of enough 100 different ways to describe graduation of quality in words, then the 100 scale is worthless. Which makes no sense whatsoever.

Never said it was worthless.

[trotchky]

I'll repeat: the 100 point scale is not rocket science and I truly can't understand why anyone would feel the need to look down on any rating sytem at all. It's shorthand, that's all, whatever scale you use. Just because you couldn't separate films into more than ten groups doesn't mean other people can't or wouldn't want to. It's statistics and tallying and I find it rather interesting.

So do you also not understand why anyone would "look down" on anyone's means of articulation about their subjective experience of a work? Because that's what a rating is. Or the absence of a rating. So, like, when Armond White accuses movies he doesn't like of being for "hipsters," that's just his rating system, and we shouldn't "look down" on it, right?

[transmogrifier]

As trotchky said though, you're making it such.

Again, just because YOU think it's complicated, doesn't actually mean it is.

[transmogrifier]

So do you also not understand why anyone would "look down" on anyone's means of articulation about their subjective experience of a work? Because that's what a rating is. Or the absence of a rating. So, like, when Armond White accuses movies he doesn't like of being for "hipsters," that's just his rating system, and we shouldn't "look down" on it, right?

Yeah, I'll get my translators working on this and get back to you ASAP.

EDIT: In the meantime, I'll just say that a list of films in a signature on a messageboard full of cinephiles with numbers beside them seem like a strange thing to look down on, especially when you are surrounded by threads that actually have words and conversations and discussions and arguments, some that even begin with the immortal words "I see in your sig that you saw Movie X, why so low?".

In fact, one could almost say that you are struggling to maintain a po-faced sense of cinephilia through pointless criticism of miscellania related to the discussion of movies. Which seems silly.

[MacGuffin]

Again, just because YOU think it's complicated, doesn't actually mean it is.

It's more complicated than something so trivial needs to be, that's for sure. You say you like it for statistics and tallying, but can't you find the same things to like in a scale that makes it easier for everyone else to understand (it's really hard to follow with some online critics using the scale where a 60 indicates a 7 on the real out of 10 scale (Heilman, D'Angelo, etc., etc.) whereas some don't), like out of 10 with halves.

[trotchky]

Basically you're argument is that, because Clipper Ship Captain can't think of enough 100 different ways to describe graduation of quality in words, then the 100 scale is worthless. Which makes no sense whatsoever.

I think his argument is more that words and numbers are incompatible, and that to assign a non-mathematical, subjective experience a numeric value is going to be inherently less accurate than describing that experience in words. Which is why the simpler the numeric scale, the better it generally is, because numbers mean roughly nothing when it comes to discussion of an aesthetic object. Unless, you know, you have Asperger's or something, and that's just how your mind works. Which is cool! Nothing wrong with that!

[MacGuffin]

Yeah, I'll get my translators working on this and get back to you ASAP.

It sounds okay to me.

[trotchky]

Yeah, I'll get my translators working on this and get back to you ASAP.

This post gets a 6,734.23/100,000. Step up your game, trans. Your recent output has been really disappointing.

[trotchky]

Yeah, I'll get my translators working on this and get back to you ASAP.

EDIT: In the meantime, I'll just say that a list of films in a signature on a messageboard full of cinephiles with numbers beside them seem like a strange thing to look down on, especially when you are surrounded by threads that actually have words and conversations and discussions and arguments, some that even begin with the immortal words "I see in your sig that you saw Movie X, why so low?".

In fact, one could almost say that you are struggling to maintain a po-faced sense of cinephilia through pointless criticism of miscellania related to the discussion of movies. Which seems silly.

You seem to be equating "criticism" with "look down on," which is kind of odd to me.

One could almost say I'm...what now? Yeah, I'll get my translators working on this and get back to you ASAP.

P.S. If a guy makes a post calling attention to his new rating system, it's anyone's prerogative to respond with their feelings on it. Unless we just shouldn't discuss rating systems at all anymore (cue "that's a good idea"-esque post).

[MacGuffin]

Anyways, I'm done talking about this. Refer to the top of the page if you wish to know why I even brought this up in the first place (I think even transmogrifter may admit that if someone doesn't like to rate movies, perhaps the 100 scale is not right for them).

[transmogrifier]

Anyways, I'm done talking about this. Refer to the top of the page if you wish to know why I even brought this up in the first place (I think even transmogrifter may admit that if someone doesn't like to rate movies, perhaps the 100 scale is not right for them).

I like it. Adds a bit of mystery.

[MacGuffin]

I like it. Adds a bit of mystery.

Oops, sorry, man. Just googled your name, never read Calvin and Hobbes. What I posted has a better ring to it. But, obviously, that's not what it is.

[D_Davis]

I'm thinking about getting metal legs.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Oops, sorry, man. Just googled your name, never read Calvin and Hobbes. What I posted has a better ring to it. But, obviously, that's not what it is.

You should.

[Qrazy]

This conversation makes me want to...

http://moviebanter.files.wordpress.co m/2008/12/man_bites_dog_film.jpg

Shoot a baby in the face!

[Melville]

Weekend:

Miss Julie
White Dog
Sans Soleil
The Shanghai Gesture

[MacGuffin]

What's the consensus on Coppola's One From the Heart?

[Raiders]

What's the consensus on Coppola's One From the Heart?

I love it, but I don't think that is the consensus.

[Arthur Seaton]

What's the consensus on Coppola's One From the Heart?
Frederic Forrest is the bee's knees.

[balmakboor]

What's the consensus on Coppola's One From the Heart?

I think it is hit and miss. About 70% hit and 30% miss. But the misses are quite charming and the hits are simply brilliant.

[Derek]

Weekend:

Miss Julie
White Dog
Sans Soleil

Three great ones there. It's especially nice to see someone checking out Miss Julie, which remains an under-seen gem even since its Criterion release.

[Qrazy]

Three great ones there. It's especially nice to see someone checking out Miss Julie, which remains an under-seen gem even since its Criterion release.

Yeah I really need to get on that. Don't agree that White Dog is a great but it's quite solid for sure. I do agree about Sans Soleil, I think it's a re-watch for Melville after a lukewarm first viewing, hopefully he likes it more this go around.

[MacGuffin]

Yeah, I need to see some Alf Sjöberg movies myself (Torment and Miss Julie are both readily available on Netflix). Meanwhile, rate the movies of Ingmar Bergman everyone! I've seen a few, but that was a while ago. There are so many that he has many people have considered to be amazing, I don't know a good point to jump back into his work. This is what I have seen:

The Seventh Seal (1957) 7
Through a Glass Darkly (1961) 8
Persona (1966) 3

If I see more of his stuff, I will certainly give Persona another try, just because it seems like the right thing to do.

[Qrazy]

Yeah, I need to see some Alf Sjöberg movies myself (Torment and Miss Julie are both readily available on Netflix). Meanwhile, rate the movies of Ingmar Bergman everyone! I've seen a few, but that was a while ago. There are so many that he has many people have considered to be amazing, I don't know a good point to jump back into his work. This is what I have seen:

The Seventh Seal (1957) 7
Through a Glass Darkly (1961) 8
Persona (1966) 3

If I see more of his stuff, I will certainly give Persona another try, just because it seems like the right thing to do.

Check out The Virgin Spring next.

[MacGuffin]

Check out The Virgin Spring next.

Okay. I was actually going to check out Cries and Whispers because I heard for so long that it had a scene that was beyond psychologically disturbing, but I've heard good things about The Virgin Spring, too, so I may just check that out.

[MacGuffin]

Okay. I was actually going to check out Cries and Whispers because I heard for so long that it had a scene that was beyond psychologically disturbing, but I've heard good things about The Virgin Spring, too, so I may just check that out.

Actually, this may be a stupid thing to say, because The Virgin Spring has potentially to be a pretty "psychologically disturbing" movie also. Anyways, whatever!

[Ezee E]

Both are rough movies to watch. Both are also great.

[MacGuffin]

Both are rough movies to watch. Both are also great.

Yeah, I guess what I was getting at is how I am beginning to realize how dark Ingmar Bergman's movies were, especially for their time. I mean, I always knew he had an obsession with death and things like that, but it's only just occurring to me how prevalent it was. Then again, I never really had a great interest to seek out his work until now.

[Ivan Drago]

Bergman:

1. Persona 8.5
2. Wild Strawberries 8
3. Smiles of a Summer Night 8
4. Cries and Whispers 7
5. The Seventh Seal 5

Want to see: The Magic Flute, Through A Glass Darkly, Winter Light, The Silence, The Virgin Spring

[Qrazy]

Okay. I was actually going to check out Cries and Whispers because I heard for so long that it had a scene that was beyond psychologically disturbing, but I've heard good things about The Virgin Spring, too, so I may just check that out.

Personally I'm not that big a fan of Persona or Cries and Whispers. I think they're good films but they have an atmospheric quality about them which I find off putting. I prefer The Virgin Spring, Smiles of a Summer Night, Hour of the Wolf, Fanny and Alexander, Through a Glass Darkly, and The Seventh Seal. After those nine (including persona and cries and whispers) comes The Silence and Shame and finally The Serpent's Egg which I dislike and Autumn Sonata which I hate.

In terms of his supposedly first tier stuff I still need to see Winter Light, Scenes from a Marriage and Wild Strawberries.

[Melville]

Bergman movies:

Persona - 10
Cries and Whispers - 10
Fanny and Alexander - 10
Hour of the Wolf - 9.5
The Seventh Seal - 9.5
The Virgin Spring - 8.5
Scenes from a Marriage - 8.5
The Silence - 8
Sawdust and Tinsel - 8
Winter Light - 8
Shame - 7.5
Through a Glass Darkly - 7.5
Autumn Sonata - 7
The Passion of Anna - 7
Wild Strawberries - 6.5
Saraband - 6


Three great ones there. It's especially nice to see someone checking out Miss Julie, which remains an under-seen gem even since its Criterion release.
Yeah, I picked it up based on your top 100 list. It sounds promising.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, I guess what I was getting at is how I am beginning to realize how dark Ingmar Bergman's movies were, especially for their time. I mean, I always knew he had an obsession with death and things like that, but it's only just occurring to me how prevalent it was. Then again, I never really had a great interest to seek out his work until now.
Both of those movies are vastly different in how they approach death though. As is something like Wild Strawberries. I'm surprised about that actually.

[soitgoes...]

Top 3 director for me. The guy's the fucking shit.

Crisis (1946) - 5.5
A Ship Bound for India (1947) - 6.5
Prison (1949) - 7.5
To Joy (1950) - 8.0
Summer Interlude (1951) - 7.5
Secrets of Women (1952) - 6.5
Summer with Monika (1953) - 8.0
A Lesson in Love (1954) - 7.0
Dreams (1955) - 7.5
Smiles of a Summer Night (1955) - 9.5
The Seventh Seal (1957) - 8.0
Wild Strawberries (1957) - 9.5
Brink of Life (1958) - 7.5
The Virgin Spring (1960) - 9.5
Through a Glass Darkly (1961) - 7.5
Winter Light (1962) - 10
The Silence (1963) - 7.0
Persona (1966) - 8.5
Shame (1968) - 7.0
Cries and Whispers (1972) - 8.5
Scenes from a Marriage (1973) - 9.0
Autumn Sonata (1978) - 9.0
Fanny and Alexander (1982) - 9.0
Karen’s Face (1984) - 9.0

[B-side]

Ranked:

Passion of Anna
Autumn Sonata
Persona
Fanny and Alexander
Winter Light
The Seventh Seal
The Virgin Spring
Cries and Whispers
Saraband
Hour of the Wolf
Through a Glass Darkly

[B-side]

Ranked:

Passion of Anna
Autumn Sonata
Persona
Fanny and Alexander
Winter Light
The Seventh Seal
The Virgin Spring
Cries and Whispers
Saraband
Hour of the Wolf
Through a Glass Darkly

All of which have positive ratings. Rewatches are needed for just about all of them, too.

[Winston*]

What are some good films set in turn of the century London?

[MacGuffin]

This just in: Hiroshima mon amour is, in fact, an excellent movie.

[[ETM]]

What are some good films set in turn of the century London?

This century, or the 20th?

[trotchky]

I watched Blue Velvet for the first time in maybe three years last night, and while it's thematically and technically immaculate, I find the movie too tough and emotionally distant to really love it. Mulholland Dr. and Inland Empire are both more humane, in my opinion.

[MacGuffin]

I watched Blue Velvet for the first time in maybe three years last night, and while it's thematically and technically immaculate, I find the movie too tough and emotionally distant to really love it. Mulholland Dr. and Inland Empire are both more humane, in my opinion.

I don't think I've seen it in three years or so either, but I'd probably agree, if only because of that character with the oxygen mask and the woman who suffers from some especially off-putting fits.

The line "Heineken? Heineken? Fuck that shit!" is one of the best lines though.

[trotchky]

I don't think I've seen it in three years or so either, but I'd probably agree, if only because of that character with the oxygen mask and the woman who suffers from some especially off-putting fits.

The line "Heineken? Heineken? Fuck that shit!" is one of the best lines though.

Yeah, I laughed out loud at that part, and at a few other things Dennis Hopper says.

The part where she spreads her arms and says to Laura Dern, "He put his disease in me," and Dern's mouth absolutely gapes in a horrified wail, was hysterical.

[Winston*]

;171377']This century, or the 20th?

20th. I will also accept 22nd.

[Qrazy]

What are some good films set in turn of the century London?

I don't know.

[Winston*]

I don't know.

That's not very helpful. You could've said The Elephant Man and then I'd be like The Elephant Man is a good movie but I have seen it.

[Rowland]

Rouben Mamoulian's 1931 adaptation of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I watched Blue Velvet for the first time in maybe three years last night, and while it's thematically and technically immaculate, I find the movie too tough and emotionally distant to really love it. Mulholland Dr. and Inland Empire are both more humane, in my opinion.

I think humane is the last word I would associate with Inland Empire. What does that mean anyway? That it's less gruesome and upsetting towards its characters?

[chrisnu]

Watched this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExLtHxJTm5M&feature=channel_page) on YouTube. If Mommie Dearest had been all vampish goodness, it might've at least been entertaining. However, it's mostly dreary, boring, episodic melodrama, with little continuity and zero character insight. Like the Wicker Man remake, the camp nuggets are best reserved for YouTube clps.

[[ETM]]

I will also accept 22nd.

Got a TV show... Sherlock Holmes in the 22nd Century (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0218791/)

7.4/10 on IMDB, so it's gotta be awesom-o. Check out teh synopsis:
"A defrosted Holmes teams with a robotic Watson and a female Inspector Lestrade to stop the criminal rampage of Moriarty's clone." Hell yes.

[Qrazy]

That's not very helpful. You could've said The Elephant Man and then I'd be like The Elephant Man is a good movie but I have seen it.

Polanski's Oliver Twist isn't turn of the century but I liked it.

[MacGuffin]

I think humane is the last word I would associate with Inland Empire.

Wrong.

[trotchky]

I think humane is the last word I would associate with Inland Empire. What does that mean anyway? That it's less gruesome and upsetting towards its characters?

That it's far more compassionate towards its central character. I wouldn't call it less gruesome, though.

[trotchky]

The ending of Blue Velvet, with Laura Dern loyally serving Kyle McLaughlin, the film's number one lothario (with the arguable exception of Dennis Hopper), lunch is just too sickening for me to take, even if it is meant to be sarcastic.

[Rowland]

Timecrimes (Nacho Vigalondo, 2008) 55

A refreshingly rational exercise in time-travel metaphysics after that Terminator: Salvation boondoggle, almost to a fault even as the immediately intriguing set-up gives way to a middle act that devotes too much time to meticulously crossing t's and dotting i's that borders on tedium, but even if most of this proves fairly predictable, especially once you get a firm grasp on Vigalondo's modus operandi, it remains reasonably compelling through its duration. Despite muscular low-budget craftsmanship and game performances, this is a fairly chilly affair, a feeling exacerbated by the occasional moment of absurdly unconvincing behavior by the characters and acting that seems bizarrely nonplussed by the increasingly baroque circumstances. In retrospect, the entire enterprise comes across as rather self-contained and devoid of mystery, especially once it dawned on me that it all boiled down to a chess game of sorts between the id (Héctor 2) and super-ego (Héctor 3) over the libido (Héctor 1's ego) of a fully domesticized middle-aged man, underscored by the darkly poetic closing shot. I doubt this has much left to tease out of it subtextually, and as an experience subsequent viewings will no doubt be a bit wearisome, so this is best viewed as a very promising debut by an evidently skillful filmmaker.

[trotchky]

Eraserhead is far more interesting to me as a movie starring a Lynch stand-in; I'll take his rabbit-holeian swan-dives into the depths of his own psyche over his swipes at social commentary any day of the week.

[Milky Joe]

I am pretty sure they are all swan-dives. And they all contain social commentary, it's just inevitable. What do you think of The Straight Story? I ask because I think that is probably the most in-between of his films, as well as one of the best.

[B-side]

Eraserhead is far more interesting to me as a movie starring a Lynch stand-in; I'll take his rabbit-holeian swan-dives into the depths of his own psyche over his swipes at social commentary any day of the week.

How is Eraserhead any less of a swan-dive into his own psyche than any of his other films? I'd argue it's his most personal film.

[trotchky]

How is Eraserhead any less of a swan-dive into his own psyche than any of his other films? I'd argue it's his most personal film.

It isn't. That's what I'm saying. I find Eraserhead more interesting than Blue Velvet.

Milky Joe: I haven't seen The Straight Story, but I want to.

[B-side]

It isn't. That's what I'm saying. I find Eraserhead more interesting than Blue Velvet.

lol

I fail at reading comprehension.

[Boner M]

So I was doing film festival volunteer work today and managed to catch most of Winged Creatures, which takes the cake as being the most pointless entry into the grief-addled LA-bound ensemble-drama genre so far. Even describing the film to my housemate upon arriving home ("it's about how a random act of violence affects the lives of a half-dozen strangers...") made me wanna wash the stale taste out of my mouth.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Eraserhead is far more interesting to me as a movie starring a Lynch stand-in; I'll take his rabbit-holeian swan-dives into the depths of his own psyche over his swipes at social commentary any day of the week.

Agreed. I still think this is his best.

[Qrazy]

It isn't. That's what I'm saying. I find Eraserhead more interesting than Blue Velvet.

Milky Joe: I haven't seen The Straight Story, but I want to.

I prefer Blue Velvet to Eraserhead but I agree Eraserhead is tops. The Straight Story is not tops. No swan diving takes place.

[baby doll]

I prefer Blue Velvet to Eraserhead but I agree Eraserhead is tops. The Straight Story is not tops. No swan diving takes place.I'll have to second you on The Straight Story. It's a fine enough Oscar vehicle for Richard Farnsworth, but entirely forgettable. Along with The Elephant Man and Wild at Heart (though far better than either, obviously), it's one of the few Lynch films I have no desire to see again.

[Qrazy]

I'll have to second you on The Straight Story. It's a fine enough Oscar vehicle for Richard Farnsworth, but entirely forgettable. Along with The Elephant Man and Wild at Heart (though far better than either, obviously), it's one of the few Lynch films I have no desire to see again.

I like The Elephant Man. Content-wise it too can be construed as an Oscar vehicle but I felt Lynch pulled it off. Wild at Heart yeah, I couldn't stand it. I have no interest in seeing Dune again either.

[baby doll]

I like The Elephant Man. Content-wise it too can be construed as an Oscar vehicle but I felt Lynch pulled it off. Wild at Heart yeah, I couldn't stand it. I have no interest in seeing Dune again either.I loved Dune!

[Qrazy]

I loved Dune!

For Spinal:

http://arrakis.extra.hu/menu/hatterkepek/dune-cat.jpg

[Spinal]

OK, that's pretty funny.

[dreamdead]

Woah, L'appartement is fantastic. While it possesses all the shades of the typical missed encounters in the city (here Paris), it is hyper-aware of its own technique, and is so concerned with missed opportunity that it becomes less of a conceit than a philosophical quandary, a la Kieslowski's best work. While Cassel and Bellucci are strong, Romane Bohringer is just heartbreaking to watch. That finale, which contains so much potential, is just sad and so, so conflicting as a viewer, since Gilles Mimouni has successfully manipulated me into caring for true romance even as he deconstructs its options here in this film. A powerful, sensual film that needs far more notice.

The Korean animated film My Beautiful Girl Mari is frequently breathtaking to behold, but while it strives to connect childhood traumas and the traces that still linger as adults, it's a little too muted to resonate. It has an elliptical vibe going all about it, but it doesn't quite deliver on the various narratives at hand (the main girl is especially short-shifted in terms of narrative development). Decent overall, and worth tracking down by animation hounds, but it doesn't quite work.

von Sternberg's Scarlet Empress is impressive for its transgressive treatment of sexuality (the last film in '34 before the Production Code became fully enforced), so there's shots of naked breasts and frank torture, and an intriguing indifference to marital fidelity, but despite von Sternberg's immaculate framing, the film feels a little too predetermined in its performances. Marlene Dietrich's innocence in the first half is just too caricatured to work, so while she is sensual and simmering in the latter half, that bewildered expression at injustice in the beginning is just a little too transparent. Good stuff, especially for its historical value just before the Code, but nothing great. I will seek out more of the Sternberg/Dietrich collabs, though.

[BuffaloWilder]

So, I just saw Tinto Brass' Trasgredire, and - well, I think he may be my new favorite Italian C-grade director.

http://yvisc.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/supe-wink.jpg

[origami_mustache]

I highly recommend Alan Zweig's Vinyl about the eccentric personalities of record collectors and the psychology behind what drives them to collect. I certainly found myself relating to it a lot, and I'm sure everyone here can relate to a certain extent. It was shot on video and not especially aesthetically pleasing, which is typically a turn off for me, but I found it quite charming. I first heard about about Zweig's documentary trilogy in Film comment a few months ago, and plan to watch his others, I, Curmudgeon, and Lovable soon.

[baby doll]

I re-watched Mean Streets for the first time in some years. It's definitely impressively acted, and well lit and shot (the amount of camera movement is kind of amazing, considering the low budget), but the overall impression is one of a lot of good scenes in search of a structure. Scorsese obviously knows this milieu like the back of his hand, but sometimes I wish he didn't: I can only see so many scenes of guys in bars arguing about debts and getting into fights before it starts to get wearisome. The opening narration, reflecting the hero's guilty conscience, promises a metaphysical coherence that the film never delivers on; Charlie's sense of Catholic guilt never seems connected to anything else in the film. If he's supposed to feel guilty about seeing Theresa behind his uncle's back, I don't know where we're supposed to see this in the film. (Looking back on Roger Ebert's Great Movies essay, he makes the film's points better than Scorsese does.)

[baby doll]

I highly recommend Alan Zweig's Vinyl about the eccentric personalities of record collectors and the psychology behind what drives them to collect. I certainly found myself relating to it a lot, and I'm sure everyone here can relate to a certain extent. It was shot on video and not especially aesthetically pleasing, which is typically a turn off for me, but I found it quite charming. I first heard about about Zweig's documentary trilogy in Film comment a few months ago, and plan on watch his others, I, Curmudgeon, and Lovable soon.I, Curmudgeon was watchable.

[Qrazy]

Devil's Backbone - Half hour in... Disappearing ghost... not where it just was... it must be behind you! Ghost dissolves with muted scream sound effect. :rolleyes:

[Grouchy]

So, Frozen River - pretty damn good movie, with two impressive central performances by Melissa Leo and the Mohawk chick. At times it was contrived and too sentimental, like the whole scene that involves the Pakistani couple and their baby, but overall I was left with a feeling of truthfulness behind the whole thing. The digital cinematography is obvious and is not a look that I like to see out of TV, but I bet it helped the director because it allowed her to shoot a scene countless times and to get the most out of every actor. I find the last few scenes have a great, understated power and I want to see more from this Cortney Hunt girl in the future.

[Qrazy]

High Sierra - This is not a bad film per se but it's also an incredibly uninteresting one. There's no vision, nothing to care about. There's a yappy little dog, a black caricature, a tedious bank robbery. The whole thing is just dead on arrival. Which reminds me I ought to watch DOA soon.

[MacGuffin]

Today:

Friday Night (rewatch)
71 Fragments of a Chronology of Chance
Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance

[D_Davis]

The Straight Story is fantastic, and also contains Badalamentie's best score.

[Qrazy]

The Straight Story is fantastic, and also contains Badalamentie's best score.

National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation disagrees!

[MacGuffin]

High Sierra - This is not a bad film per se but it's also an incredibly uninteresting one. There's no vision, nothing to care about. There's a yappy little dog, a black caricature, a tedious bank robbery. The whole thing is just dead on arrival. Which reminds me I ought to watch DOA soon.

I love this movie. What's DOA?

[Qrazy]

I love this movie. What's DOA?

What do you love about it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.O.A._(1950_film)

It's directed by the cinematographer of Dreyer's Passion of Joan of Arc.

[MacGuffin]

What do you love about it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.O.A._(1950_film)

It's directed by the cinematographer of Dreyer's Passion of Joan of Arc.

I don't know, I guess I liked it because it's an inoffensive crowd pleaser. It's a big, theatrical spectacle, where the big mountain at the end seems to be a sort of metaphor for. I like the characters, I like settings and the way they are filmed. I just think it's a very well-made, well-paced Hollywood movie.

D.O.A. sounds really interesting for a film noir. I may have to check it out.

[Amnesiac]

This is kind of interesting (http://pixarblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/monsters-sequel-in-2013.html). Monsters, Inc. sequel may be on the way.

[chrisnu]

The Straight Story is fantastic, and also contains Badalamentie's best score.
I agree wholeheartedly.

[EyesWideOpen]

This is kind of interesting (http://pixarblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/monsters-sequel-in-2013.html). Monsters, Inc. sequel may be on the way.


That article is pretty idiotic.

[Qrazy]

I don't know, I guess I liked it because it's an inoffensive crowd pleaser. It's a big, theatrical spectacle, where the big mountain at the end seems to be a sort of metaphor for. I like the characters, I like settings and the way they are filmed. I just think it's a very well-made, well-paced Hollywood movie.

D.O.A. sounds really interesting for a film noir. I may have to check it out.

Fair enough, I felt about High Sierra the same way I felt about The Petrified Forest. I just didn't care.

[MacGuffin]

Fair enough, I felt about High Sierra the same way I felt about The Petrified Forest. I just didn't care.

Yeah, that's understandable (I haven't seen The Petrified Forest). What is Raoul Walsh known for anyways?

[Raiders]

Yeah, that's understandable (I haven't seen The Petrified Forest). What is Raoul Walsh known for anyways?

Being a good director? If you mean specific films, I suppose White Heat would be near the top, certainly among the most cherished gangster films as well as The Roaring Twenties, which features my favorite Cagney performance. My favorite is Pursued, a wickedly awesome noir-ish western. Also, apparently his adaptation of Sadie Thompson is supposed to be wonderful, but I haven't seen it.

I suppose he isn't among the elite, for me, of Hollywood's golden-era but he's got some good films stuck in there. I think he's rather notable for his films' moral ambiguity in dealing with the gangster and criminal world, often painted in shades of gray.

[MacGuffin]

Being a good director? If you mean specific films, I suppose White Heat would be near the top, certainly among the most cherished gangster films as well as The Roaring Twenties, which features my favorite Cagney performance. My favorite is Pursued, a wickedly awesome noir-ish western. Also, apparently his adaptation of Sadie Thompson is supposed to be wonderful, but I haven't seen it.

I suppose he isn't among the elite, for me, of Hollywood's golden-era but he's got some good films stuck in there. I think he's rather notable for his films' moral ambiguity in dealing with the gangster and criminal world, often painted in shades of gray.

Okay, thanks. That clears things up.

[Qrazy]

Okay, thanks. That clears things up.

Yeah he made over 100 films. Also notable (have not seen... only also seen White Heat which I really liked)... was the original The Thief of Bagdad (Monolith is a huge fan), The Big Trail, Me and My Gal, They Drive by Night and The Strawberry Blonde.

[MacGuffin]

Yeah he made over 100 films. Also notable (have not seen... only also seen White Heat which I really liked)... was the original The Thief of Bagdad (Monolith is a huge fan), The Big Trail, Me and My Gal, They Drive by Night and The Strawberry Blonde,

So, I guess he's just overlooked? I mean, he's not really talked about on here, in fact, I don't even think he's ever had a consensus.

[Spun Lepton]

I watched part of Hancock and then turned it off out of boredom.

I watched part of You Don't Mess with the Zohan and then turned it off out of boredom.

I didn't watch enough of either to really rate them.

[Qrazy]

So, I guess he's just overlooked? I mean, he's not really talked about on here, in fact, I don't even think he's ever had a consensus.

I guess so, not too sure. He's probably been covered in one of the consensuses over the last 4+ years. I"m sure Katie and a few others on RT have seen a ton of his films and I wouldn't be surprised if Rouge has seen quite a few as well.

[Raiders]

So, I guess he's just overlooked? I mean, he's not really talked about on here, in fact, I don't even think he's ever had a consensus.

Not really. I mean, how often does classic Hollywood get talked about around here? Search for Michael Curtiz or Leo McCarey and it isn't as though you'll find much either. Heck, even Howard Hawks likely has very little discussion.

Walsh, I'm fairly certain, did have a consensus in year two on the old site, but I could be wrong.

[BuffaloWilder]

The first Terminator film really is the better movie. I haven't seen it in a while, but it's clearly one of Cameron's two best films - the other being The Abyss.

[Qrazy]

The first Terminator film really is the better movie. I haven't seen it in a while, but it's clearly one of Cameron's two best films - the other being The Abyss.

Don't think so.

Aliens > Terminator 2 > The Abyss >>> Terminator >> Titanic >>> True Lies

[megladon8]

Terminator
The Abyss
Terminator 2
Aliens
Titanic
True Lies

[Spinal]

The Terminator is my favorite as well.

[BuffaloWilder]

Terminator
The Abyss
Terminator 2
Aliens
Titanic
True Lies

Basically my list, except switch the last two around, and you're golden.

[D_Davis]

Aliens
The Abyss
Titanic
Terminator
Terminator 2
True Lies

Hey - JC likes movies that start with the letters A and T.

[Beau]

Don't think so.

Aliens > Terminator 2 > The Abyss >>> Terminator >> Titanic >>> True Lies

I agree a lot with you lately.

[Barty]

The Abyss is his best film.

[MacGuffin]

I rented House of Bamboo from the library, along with some other stuff, because I need to see a first Fuller movie, but looking over his consensus, it doesn't look to be one of his best. Should I just go ahead, anyways? I mean, it looks pretty interesting for a film noir.

[lovejuice]

we never had JC consensus?

Aliens
Terminator 2
Terminator
True Lies
The Abyss
Titanic

but they all are so fucking awesome that ranking actually doesn't have any meaning here.

[Pop Trash]

1. Terminator 2
2. Titanic
3. Aliens
4. Terminator
5. The Abyss
6. True Lies

I love them all except True Lies.

[Ezee E]

Pretty sure we've had a JC consensus at some point. Maybe at the old site.

[BuffaloWilder]

Pretty sure we've had a JC consensus at some point. Maybe at the old site.

There's an older incarnation of this site? I must have a link, or an archive.

THUSLY

[Sycophant]

There's an older incarnation of this site? I must have a link, or an archive.

THUSLY

There is none.

Well, this: matchcut.org (http://matchcut.org), but it's a squatting site that may very well give your computer AIDS.

We moved here when we lost the old host in late 2007. We were supposed to keep an archive or something, but we lost touch with the guy who ran the old site and was just lost to the e-ether.

[Ivan Drago]

Cameron:

1. Titanic
2. Aliens
3. Terminator 2: Judgment Day

That's it. Yup.

[BuffaloWilder]

There is none.

Well, this: matchcut.org (http://matchcut.org), but it's a squatting site that may very well give your computer AIDS.



http://www.slammers.iaw.on.ca/pictures/moleman.jpg

oh no my brains

[Qrazy]

I agree a lot with you lately.

*high five*

[Raiders]

I rented House of Bamboo from the library, along with some other stuff, because I need to see a first Fuller movie, but looking over his consensus, it doesn't look to be one of his best. Should I just go ahead, anyways? I mean, it looks pretty interesting for a film noir.

Yeah, but it is the weakest of the thirteen I have seen to date. Still worth a look though.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Well, color me surprised. My niece and nephew are visiting from Nevada this week, and they stayed the night at our house last night. They're 13 and 11, respectively, and love the movie Hot Rod and insisted I watch it with them. It was actually pretty funny. Ridiculous, for sure, but just the kind of silly, irreverent humor that appeals to me. Some jokes definitely missed the mark, but there was enough there to keep me laughing and entertained through the short running time. Cool beans.

[number8]

DOA is pretty good, but the first time I saw it, the screwball comedy bits threw me off. The Three Stooges-style sound effects in particular seemed really out of place in a story so dark and depressing.

[number8]

Well, color me surprised. My niece and nephew are visiting from Nevada this week, and they stayed the night at our house last night. They're 13 and 11, respectively, and love the movie Hot Rod and insisted I watch it with them. It was actually pretty funny. Ridiculous, for sure, but just the kind of silly, irreverent humor that appeals to me. Some jokes definitely missed the mark, but there was enough there to keep me laughing and entertained through the short running time. Cool beans.

You liked it! Cool beans.

[Winston*]

Well, color me surprised. My niece and nephew are visiting from Nevada this week, and they stayed the night at our house last night. They're 13 and 11, respectively, and love the movie Hot Rod and insisted I watch it with them. It was actually pretty funny. Ridiculous, for sure, but just the kind of silly, irreverent humor that appeals to me. Some jokes definitely missed the mark, but there was enough there to keep me laughing and entertained through the short running time. Cool beans.

"Okay, that's kind of racist but..."

[Boner M]

I think I gave Hot Rod two stars or something when I first saw it, but have watched it many times since, and with different groups of friends, and it's fast becoming my favorite stupid comedy of recent years.

"It started off super-positive, then it just got kind of crazy!"

[Sycophant]

DOA is pretty good, but the first time I saw it, the screwball comedy bits threw me off. The Three Stooges-style sound effects in particular seemed really out of place in a story so dark and depressing.

Is it weird that my interest just shot way the hell up?

[MacGuffin]

Consensus on Wong's As Tears Go By, please?

[The Mike]

True Lies > Terminator > Abyss > Aliens > Terminator 2 > Titanic. Went there.

Also, Hot Rod is indeed amazing.

[Qrazy]

Consensus on Wong's As Tears Go By, please?

I believe it's considered his second worst film... My Blueberry Nights being the worst... those are the only two of his I have not seen.

[Rowland]

The best parts of Hot Rod are Ian McShane, its satirical take on 80's pop culture touchstones (including the endearingly retro soundtrack, the dancing Asian desperate to be our hero's sidekick, Artnett's asshole boyfriend), and that sublimely-OTT impromptu parade as Hot Rod approaches his final challenge. The rest I can't really remember.

[baby doll]

I believe it's considered his second worst film... My Blueberry Nights being the worst... those are the only two of his I have not seen.I liked My Blueberry Nights. If I had to pick his worst, without seeing As Tears Go By, it'd be Happy Together.

[MacGuffin]

I believe it's considered his second worst film... My Blueberry Nights being the worst... those are the only two of his I have not seen.

Ah, lame. Figure I'll give it a go anyways, since I've been meaning to see more of his work. I figure Fallen Angels is a must.

[MacGuffin]

Oh, hey, baby doll, I rented Baghead. Remember we were talking about mumblecore a few weeks back, so I'll let you know if it is as obnoxious as the other mumblecore movies I've seen.

[Amnesiac]

That article is pretty idiotic.

That article has its holes, but the possibility of a sequel has been substantiated by this less speculative report (http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/06/07/pixar-confirms-monsters-inc-sequel/).

[Raiders]

I believe it's considered his second worst film... My Blueberry Nights being the worst... those are the only two of his I have not seen.

My Blueberry Nights is a much better film than As Tears Go By. I have very little to say about the latter film really. Seemed like a formative film, Wong clearly developing his style while falling back on the John Woo genre film style (namely A Better Tomorrow). I have read some good defenses of it though, so I'll probably rewatch it at some point.

[baby doll]

Oh, hey, baby doll, I rented Baghead. Remember we were talking about mumblecore a few weeks back, so I'll let you know if it is as obnoxious as the other mumblecore movies I've seen.We talked about mumblecore?

[MacGuffin]

We talked about mumblecore?

Yeah. (http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=164774&postcount=330) Anyways, Baghead looks to have some style, and it's only 80 minutes, so why not?

[Pop Trash]

Yeah. (http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=164774&postcount=330) Anyways, Baghead looks to have some style, and it's only 80 minutes, so why not?

I liked it. It was in my top twenty of 2008 for awhile. It's actually a pretty dang clever hybrid of the slasher and "mumblecore" genres. But if you don't like the other mumbles you may not like it. Dunno.

[Boner M]

Baghead isn't a m-core movie; it's just a self-reflexive film about indie-filmmaking that happens to feature some of the pseudo-movement's key players. I found it very engaging and original, though it is fundamentally slight as most films about filmmaking tend to be (for me, at least).

[Winston*]

a self-reflexive film about indie-filmmaking.

Yucky.

[Raiders]

I didn't even know there was a movie called Baghead. I kept thinking you were misspelling Alan Ball's Towelhead, which was a wretchedly bad movie.

This Baghead movie sounds rather uninteresting.

[MacGuffin]

Alan Ball's Towelhead, which was a wretchedly bad movie.

Surprise!

But not really.

[Qrazy]

I liked My Blueberry Nights. If I had to pick his worst, without seeing As Tears Go By, it'd be Happy Together.

Yeah... that would be his best.

[Boner M]

Yucky.
It's a lot more interesting and enjoyable than I make it sound.

[Qrazy]

Ah, lame. Figure I'll give it a go anyways, since I've been meaning to see more of his work. I figure Fallen Angels is a must.

Yeah Fallen Angels is quality, top four for me.

[Boner M]

Yeah Fallen Angels is quality, top four for me.
Never would've pegged you as a fan. Glad you are.

[Dead & Messed Up]

True Lies > Terminator > Abyss > Aliens > Terminator 2 > Titanic.

Correct answer:

Aliens > Terminator 2 > The Terminator > Titanic > True Lies > The Abyss


Also, Hot Rod is indeed amazing.

Cool beans.

[Spun Lepton]

I'll play.

Aliens > Terminator 2 > The Terminator > The Abyss (Director's Cut) > True Lies > The Abyss (Dreaded theatrical version) > the second half of Piranha 2: The Spawning after the original director ducked out

I've never seen Titanic. No plans to change that, either.

[Bosco B Thug]

Aliens
The Abyss
Titanic
Terminator
Terminator 2
True Lies

Hey - JC likes movies that start with the letters A and T. Seriously, he has to be doing that on purpose.


It's a lot more interesting and enjoyable than I make it sound. You need to write something else on it, then, 'cause yeah, no one wants to see it now. :P Mumble-core movies that are doubly self-reflexive?

[Derek]

Seriously, he has to be doing that on purpose.

The man likes T & A. Nothing wrong with that.

[Boner M]

You need to write something else on it, then, 'cause yeah, no one wants to see it now. :P Mumble-core movies that are doubly self-reflexive?
I can't really remember it too well as I saw it on my NYC cinema-blitz last year. I saw it mostly because of Michael Koresky'senticing review (http://www.indiewire.com/article/review_disconnect_four_jay_dup lass_and_mark_duplasss_baghead/), which does a better job at pinpointing its appeal than I could.

[Qrazy]

Never would've pegged you as a fan. Glad you are.

Ah yeah he's one of those early formative directors for me but I still think he's quality. I recently watched the director's cut of Ashes of Time and ultimately came away disappointed but it's definitely an improvement over the theatrical cut. There's still a lot to like about the film.

[Boner M]

Ah yeah he's one of those early formative directors for me but I still think he's quality. I recently watched the director's cut of Ashes of Time and ultimately came away disappointed but it's definitely an improvement over the theatrical cut. There's still a lot to like about the film.
I was referring to FA specifically rather than Wong himself. Didn't strike me as a Q-friendly film.

[Qrazy]

I was referring to FA specifically rather than Wong himself. Didn't strike me as a Q-friendly film.

Out of curiosity could you define said films? Is it because of the gun play? The edgy atmosphere?

Speaking of Q-unfriendly films I didn't have much interest in/patience for Last Chants for a Slow Dance. It interested me enough that I'd like to check out some more Jost at some point (All the Vermeers in New York perhaps) but not so much such that about four years have gone by and I still have yet to see another film by him.

[Milky Joe]

I just saw Stanley Kubrick's Boxes. Has anyone heard of this? Fascinating stuff.

[Boner M]

Out of curiosity could you define said films? Is it because of the gun play?
I see FA as a piece with Jarmusch's work, who I know you dislike; it's a film that plays with and deconstructs notions of 'cool' and the like... I dunno, it just doesn't strike me as the kind of film you go for.

[origami_mustache]

I just saw Stanley Kubrick's Boxes. Has anyone heard of this? Fascinating stuff.

I saw this too. Pretty cool stuff...Kubrick was a lot more eccentric than I possibly could have imagined and I loved the crank letters and videos he saved. Too bad that narrator was so awful.

[Boner M]

Oh and regarding Last Chants... I was pretty restless in a few places while watching it, but it's been haunting me like crazy over the last few days. I'll write extended thoughts soon.

[Milky Joe]

I saw this too. Pretty cool stuff...Kubrick was a lot more eccentric than I possibly could have imagined and I loved the crank letters and videos he saved. Too bad that narrator was so awful.

Organizing his fan letters by the city they came from is pretty hilarious. Efficient, though. And yeah the narrator was pretty bad. The guy should have gotten Tom Cruise!

[Amnesiac]

I just saw Stanley Kubrick's Boxes. Has anyone heard of this? Fascinating stuff.

I hadn't heard of this but I'll definitely have to check it out. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Bosco B Thug]

The man likes T & A. Nothing wrong with that. I approve. [/rep-tease post]


I can't really remember it too well as I saw it on my NYC cinema-blitz last year. I saw it mostly because of Michael Koresky'senticing review (http://www.indiewire.com/article/review_disconnect_four_jay_dup lass_and_mark_duplasss_baghead/), which does a better job at pinpointing its appeal than I could. I will see it definitely, although. I just don't feel m-core should make fun of itself, but maybe it does it in a respectful way.

[Qrazy]

I see FA as a piece with Jarmusch's work, who I know you dislike; it's a film that plays with and deconstructs notions of 'cool' and the like... I dunno, it just doesn't strike me as the kind of film you go for.

Fair enough. I think the thing for me with Jarmusch is that I don't find his use of space and imagery formally compelling. Also the way he stages his drama nearly always has a film school vibe to me. I know fans certainly vehemently disagree but yeah aside from my general dislike of his thematic approach it's really the formal elements which fuel my disinterest... Fallen Angels and Chris Doyle on the other hand bring a fascinating aesthetic kick to the content.

[Qrazy]

Oh and regarding Last Chants... I was pretty restless in a few places while watching it, but it's been haunting me like crazy over the last few days. I'll write extended thoughts soon.

Looking forward to them.

[number8]

Yeah... that would be his best.

Clarify: did you mean to say that Happy Together is WKW's best? If so, I love you.

[trotchky]

Happy Together is pretty great. Either that or Days of Being Wild is my favorite Wong movie.

[balmakboor]

Saw Sweet Sweetback's Badasssss Song. Not what I expected. That's for sure. I was expecting some sort of action/exploitation film and, while it kinda sorta had some of that going on, it was more of a jazzy, free-form movie that would play well alongside Cassavetes' Shadows. I liked it.

Saw Daisies. I thought this was going to be a favorite for a while but it ultimately grew a bit tiresome with all of its camera and editing tricks. Still, mostly a fun, playful, and sexy little movie.

[Winston*]

Lifeboat is pretty sweet. You know who you can't trust? Nazis.

[soitgoes...]

Top Ten:
1. WR: Mysteries of the Organism
2. Sans Soleil
3. Slacker
4. Scorpio Rising
5. Dreamwood
6. 79 primaveras
7. Full Metal Jacket
8. Love Song (Brakhage)
9. Pierrot le fou
10. Berlin AlexanderplatzWhile great, I still think LBJ is the better film, and by a good margin.

[lovejuice]

yay to whoever support happy together. that's my favortie wkw's as well. and perhaps my favorite of tony leung's performance.

[Sycophant]

Happy Together is fantastic, though I'd place both Chungking Express and In the Mood for Love above it.

[MacGuffin]

One of the IMDb review titles (sorry, I know) for 71 Fragments of a Chronology of Chance by Michael Haneke reads: "Elephant by Haneke". I just wanted to point out how Gus Van Sant offers no certain answers as to why violence occurs in his movie, while Haneke does, and the certain answers that Haneke provides — and for that matter, the lead-up to which he provides them — are many times more thought-provoking and, indeed, "powerful" than the painfully naïve bulletpoint list, Reasons Why Violence Occurs In Society, that Gus Van Sant seems to use as a script for Elephant. Haneke has a cold, cynical command over the drive of the material in the movie, and his bitterness towards a society on the brink of self-destruction is refreshingly honest.

[Qrazy]

Clarify: did you mean to say that Happy Together is WKW's best? If so, I love you.

Indeed, followed by In the Mood for Love and then probably Fallen Angels and then Chungking.

[balmakboor]

While great, I still think LBJ is the better film, and by a good margin.

I guess I feel they are closer in quality than you do, but I agree that LBJ is amazing. I actually go back and forth on a number of the choices on my list.

79 primaveras vs. LBJ
Love Song vs. The Act of Seeing With One's Own Eyes
Dreamwood vs. The Golden Positions
Full Metal Jacket vs. Eyes Wide Shut vs. Barry Lyndon

Just not enough spots on a top ten list.

[MadMan]

Cameron seen/ranked:

1. T2
2. The Terminator
3. Aliens
4. Aquaman
5. True Lies
6. Piranha II (not sure if you can really credit that awful movie to him, though)

Haven't seen The Abyss or Titanic yet. Regardless, he's an awesome director, no matter how Avatar will end up turning up.

[Qrazy]

Cameron seen/ranked:

1. T2
2. The Terminator
3. Aliens
4. Aquaman
5. True Lies
6. Piranha II (not sure if you can really credit that awful movie to him, though)

Haven't seen The Abyss or Titanic yet. Regardless, he's an awesome director, no matter how Avatar will end up turning up.

Do see The Abyss sooner rather than later, seems right up your alley.

[Grouchy]

1. The Terminator
2. Aliens
3. T2
4. Titanic

Happy Together is fantastic, Wong's best movie tied with In the Mood for Love. I think you have to view As Tears Go By from the fan point of view and as a formative movie.

[Grouchy]

http://ricksflickspicks.animationblog spot.com/files/2007/09/SupermanDoomsday.jpg

Superman: Doomsday was fucking awful and a waste of a great story - I didn't feel Bruce Timm's touch on this one at all. The Lois/Clark love story, which occupies a lot of the running time, is very badly handled, with horrible dialogue and impossible situations that seem straight out of a Silver Age comic. The supporting characters are also misused - Jimmy's subplot about becoming a fashion photographer is retarded. Perry's is even worse because it continues the Hollywood movie cliché - if you're drinking, you're automatically depressed. Luthor as a villain, although ruthless, is completely simplistic and his catch-phrases are ridiculous and make him look like some fucking boxer or something. To finish the tirade, of all the possible ways they could simplify the resurrection into 70-minutes feature material, they probably chose the worse. The only reason to see this is the fight scene with Doomsday. It's obvious a lot more care went into animating that than into writing an actual script.

Oh, and whoever added those cheeckbones to the original Supes character design is a moron.

[number8]

Indeed, followed by In the Mood for Love and then probably Fallen Angels and then Chungking.

Mine's the same!

[Raiders]

Though Days of Being Wild will likely always hold my highest esteem, I'm slowly considering 2046 as WKW's best film.

But really, with the exception of As Tears Go By, I pretty much love them all. With the top three or four, ranking almost seems pointless.

[DavidSeven]

Days of Being Wild has long been my favorite. He does certain things better in other films, but those films are also littered with more pronounced flaws. Days is his most complete piece. I'd say I'm mixed at best on Fallen Angels and Happy Together. The rest are very strong including the sadly underrated My Blueberry Nights (haven't seen As Tears Go By and Ashes of Time).

[Ivan Drago]

All I've seen from Wong Kar-Wai is In The Mood For Love (10) and 2046 (7.5). I want to see a lot more from him though.

[megladon8]

I've only seen In the Mood for Love (10) and Chungking Express (6).

Really want to see more. Especially Happy Together.

[MacGuffin]

May as well rate what I have seen by him since I originally asked the question.

Chungking Express ***1/2
In the Mood for Love **1/2
2046 1/2

[baby doll]

Ratings? I like ratings!

Days of Being Wild (1990) / ***1/2
Chungking Express (1994) / ****
Happy Together (1997) / **
In the Mood for Love (2000) / ****
2046 (2004) / ***1/2
The Hand (2004) / ***1/2
My Blueberry Nights (2007) / ***

I need to re-see Ashes of Time and Fallen Angels. But yeah, I'm a total fanboy.

[MacGuffin]

Ratings? I like ratings!

Days of Being Wild (1990) / ***1/2
Chungking Express (1994) / ****
Happy Together (1997) / **
In the Mood for Love (2000) / ****
2046 (2004) / ***1/2
The Hand (2004) / ***1/2
My Blueberry Nights (2007) / ***

I need to re-see Ashes of Time and Fallen Angels. But yeah, I'm a total fanboy.

I may just have to see ITMFL and 2046 again. "The Hand" I forgot about, but probably wouldn't give it more than a **1/2, which is what I think I'd probably give Eros as a whole, as Wong's short and Soderbergh's short make up for Antonioni's middling short.

[megladon8]

I know it's an unfair criticism, but I was really tired of hearing "California Dreamin'" by the end of Chungking Express.

And I love that song.

[MacGuffin]

I know it's an unfair criticism, but I was really tired of hearing "California Dreamin'" by the end of Chungking Express.

And I love that song.

Yeah, I think that really is an unfair criticism, because that's basically the point.

[baby doll]

I may just have to see ITMFL and 2046 again. "The Hand" I forgot about, but probably wouldn't give it more than a **1/2, which is what I think I'd probably give Eros as a whole, as Wong's short and Soderbergh's short make up for Antonioni's middling short.Yeah, Antonioni's is a huge embarrassment. At least Michelangelo Eye to Eye rocked. As for Soderbergh's, I wasn't that impressed by it, but it's interesting to note that it's virtually the only film he's made since sex, lies & videotape that he wrote himself (that wasn't based on a book), and it's about basically the same thing--which suggests that, as slight as the film is in terms of its content, at least it's a subject that Soderbergh actually cares about (in contrast with Che, which isn't slight at all).

[megladon8]

Yeah, I think that really is an unfair criticism, because that's basically the point.


The point of the movie was to annoy me?

[MacGuffin]

The point of the movie was to annoy me?

No, the point of the song being used over and over was to show an accurate depiction of the obsession towards an object, and so it was supposed to make you tired of hearing "California Dreamin'".

[megladon8]

No, the point of the song being used over and over was to show an accurate depiction of the obsession towards an object, and so it was supposed to make you tired of hearing "California Dreamin'".


Well it certainly worked.

"Criticism" was a bad word to use in the first place on my part. I don't hold this against the movie. More like an observation I guess.

The movie just didn't work for me, especially since I saw it very shortly after seeing the sublime In the Mood for Love.

[MacGuffin]

Well it certainly worked.

"Criticism" was a bad word to use in the first place on my part. I don't hold this against the movie. More like an observation I guess.

The movie just didn't work for me, especially since I saw it very shortly after seeing the sublime In the Mood for Love.

I definitely understand, and can see where you are coming from. In the Mood for Love is certainly a much quieter film, which is why I am convinced I might have underrated it — and 2046, for that matter — the first time around, misreading it as a situation where style outdoes content.

[Qrazy]

Some of the storylines in Chungking Express and Fallen Angels work amazingly while other storylines interest me much less. It wouldn't really work but it would be fun to do a fan edit of the two films only keeping in the storylines I thought were exceptional.

[origami_mustache]

As Tears Go By (1989) - 6.5
Days of Being Wild (1991) - 8.5
Ashes of Time (1994) - 8
Chungking Express (1994) - 9
Fallen Angels (1995) - 10
Happy Together (1997) - 9
In the Mood for Love (2000) - 10
Hire: The Follow (2001) - 7.5
Six Days music video(2002) - 8
2046 (2004) - 10
Eros (segment: The Hand) (2004) - 7
There's Only One Sun (short) - 8
To Each His Cinema (segment: I Traveled 9000 km To Give It To You) - 7
My Blueberry Nights (2007) - 6.5

[baby doll]

To Each His Cinema (segment: I Traveled 9000 km To Give It To You) - 7Forgot about that one. Not as embarrassing as Gus Van Sant's segment (what's up with that?), but not far behind. (The better segments, in my opinion: the Moretti, the Trier, the Tsai and the Polanski.)

[number8]

WONG KAR WAI RATINGS??!!! GOODIES!!!!!!

As Tears Go By - 7
Days of Being Wild - 9
Chungking Express - 10
Ashes of Time - 4
Ashes of Time Redux - 6
Fallen Angels - 10
Happy Together - 10
In the Mood for Love - 10
The Follow - 8
2046 - 9
The Hand - 8
My Blueberry Nights - 9

[balmakboor]

Just been a lazy sort of night tonight. Watched Kubrick's Boxes and enjoyed it. It could've been nine hours long and I would've sat through it. Unfortunately, it's only a woefully too short 50 minutes.

Started watching Fulci's Zombie on instant watch. Holy shit that is a piece of crap.

Started watching some Japanese tv show thing called Vermilion Pleasure Night. God damn I loves me some hot Japanese girls. Pretty interesting show too. I think I'll watch all of it some time.

[MacGuffin]

Started watching Fulci's Zombie on instant watch. Holy shit that is a piece of crap.

On the contrary.

[origami_mustache]

Forgot about that one. Not as embarrassing as Gus Van Sant's segment (what's up with that?), but not far behind. (The better segments, in my opinion: the Moretti, the Trier, the Tsai and the Polanski.)

I can barely remember any of them to be honest.

[number8]

On the contrary.

Yes.

[Sycophant]

Isn't Vermillion Pleasure Night the source of Oh, Mikey! aka The Fuccons? I love that show.

[balmakboor]

On the contrary.

It gets a lot better?

[balmakboor]

Isn't Vermillion Pleasure Night the source of Oh, Mikey! aka The Fuccons? I love that show.

It must be. There was something about The Fuccons in the little bit I watched. The show seemed very fun and quirky. Kinda like a Japanese Saturday Night Live or Monty Python.

[Raiders]

It gets a lot better?

No. It's a turd. As are all three of Fulci's films I have seen. I don't get the appeal at all.