28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Kurosawa Fan]

To me the ending of Spielberg's film is about the futility and ultimate failure of humans to play God.

The whole film is about the cultural deification of the pre-cogs and the illusion that the system is "perfect" when it is actually precipitated on a lie and a deceit. Lamar proved that there is a way around the system, forever tarnishing the ideal it represents. Even more however is the film's ultimate humane reprieve for the real victims of pre-crime which are the pre-cogs themselves. The final two images, that of the abandoned, empty shell of Pre Crime headquarters and of the pre-cogs freed from their bonds and agonizing non-existence is a near-perfect encapsulation of what the film ultimately represents. I think people get too stuck on Anderton's story when those final minutes of the film show him as a messenger for the ultimate truth that man has no business trying to play God and stresses the ultimate difference between a Biblical God and man; where God gives us free will, Pre Crime does not. Not only where we are arresting people for something not actually committed but in the pre-cogs who are imprisoned by man and then held as some kind of beacon of perfection but who are just genetic experiments gone wrong.

Any thoughts on my brief Park Row critique?

[Raiders]

I very much agree that the system must fold and that the precogs should be freed but I don't feel that they should necessarily live happily ever after.

Why not?

[balmakboor]

MINORITY REPORT and BRAZIL SPOILERS

Except there's a) not that much textual evidence for it and b) is such an ending really a good one or in keeping with what the film is about? In the case of Brazil that ending works wonderfully because that film is about a world where the system wins absolutely. As I see it Minority Report isn't about that. It's about a program for handling crime, the flaws of which (given the film's basic metaphysics) must be exposed by the film's end. In my opinion it's important that Burgess loses and the system is dismantled. The problem is that Spielberg always wants to have his cake and eat it too. He doesn't seem to recognize that it reads much better when there's personal loss for greater gain. At the same time the film has to be about that basic ambiguity (also present in A Clockwork Orange) which is that while it's important for a society to maintain freedom, this entails the freedom to murder, to choose and make the 'wrong' choice. The film should also be about the fact that while we can control our own actions, we have little control over the circumstances of our deaths. We do have control, but this control is finite. I'm not sure what the best way would have been for the film to communicate all these ideas narratively. I have some ideas but I'm not entirely happy with any of my own endings either.

The link below is to a great discussion on the matter. Especially lively is the debate between Numanoid and ScandalUMD.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=258049&highlight=minority+ending

I should watch it again. I once outlined my reasons for siding with the dream interpretation crowd, but no longer have the list. I do recall that evidence is spread throughout the movie and not just the "all your dreams will come true" line by the jailor.

[Qrazy]

Why not?

Because it doesn't mesh tonally with what came before and it's also just overly assuring, simplistic, dogmatic and treacly (as is the end of War of the Worlds, the end of Schindler's List, the end of The Terminal, etc). It's important for the film to recognize that without the precogs the murder rate will go up. It's a trade off, freedom vs risk, but a trade off well worth making. As it stands the film instead concludes freedom = good, precog system = bad. The film should be about the importance of freedom in the face of danger, not just gloss over the reality of that danger and our capacity for bad choices.

[Spinal]

There's a big difference between a plot twist and a copout. I'm disappointed in you, Spinal.

Wait, which is which? Because the scene in Raiders is totally a cop-out. Every piece of information that we receive about Marion's fate is a lie. It's not ambiguous. It simply gives us the wrong information in order to manipulate our emotions. Yes, there are many baskets and we see Indy momentarily confused. But then we hear Marion calling out from a specific basket. We see those same men with that same basket place it into the back of the truck. We see that truck explode into flames. There is about 3 seconds where Indy is distracted by beggars. I'm supposed to believe that in those 3 seconds, the bad guys decided to switch baskets. Where did the other basket come from? How could they have anticipated Marion would hide in a basket? Why would they think that would be a better plan than simply putting her in the back of the truck and driving off? What was in the second basket? Why were they in such a hurry to leave if it didn't contain Marion? All of this was an elaborate bluff? It makes no sense.

It not a plot twist so much as a deliberate lie.

I'd have to rewatch War of the Worlds to give a detailed accont of its level of ambiguity, but this one I've got sitting right in front of me.

[Qrazy]

The link below is to a great discussion on the matter. Especially lively is the debate between Numanoid and ScandalUMD.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=258049&highlight=minority+ending

I should watch it again. I once outlined my reasons for siding with the dream interpretation crowd, but no longer have the list. I do recall that evidence is spread throughout the movie and not just the "all your dreams will come true" line by the jailor.

I read the first and last pages of the thread. The only other evidence (in those pages) is what has already been said, the 'everything fits together too well' and the perceived homage to Solaris. I find the arguments against the dream ending much more compelling (namely the perspective of the 'dream', the lack of Anderton's dreams earlier in the film, the lack of many cues during the 'dream', Spielberg's history as a director and the info. Anderton had going into the 'dream' that doesn't match up with what happens in the 'dream'. But as I've said already even if it was a dream I don't consider that a very good ending either.

[Raiders]

Any thoughts on my brief Park Row critique?

I think you're right about the ending, but as always with Fuller, he never half-asses anything. It also manages to be rooted entirely in ethics and principles and Fuller sees it more as a hopeful recognition of the kind of integrity the media ought to have as opposed to strictly a corny love offering. I almost can see Fuller the young newspaper reporter using Charity as a stand-in, swooning as she does over Phineus.

As for the emotional moments in the film, I can't remember specifics of everything you might be referring to (the film is due for another viewing), but I would say that I recognized the style as intentionally muting the emotional impact in favor of the lack of intimacy allowed by the frenzied, deadline-consumed nature of the business and perhaps it is why the ending stands out as even cornier than it may otherwise be.

[balmakboor]

I read the first and last pages of the thread. The only other evidence (in those pages) is what has already been said, the 'everything fits together too well' and the perceived homage to Solaris. I find the arguments against the dream ending much more compelling (namely the perspective of the 'dream', the lack of Anderton's dreams earlier in the film, the lack of many cues during the 'dream', Spielberg's history as a director and the info. Anderton had going into the 'dream' that doesn't match up with what happens in the 'dream'. But as I've said already even if it was a dream I don't consider that a very good ending either.

Page 3 was the best. ;)

I don't even pretend to be in a position to debate this. I've only seen it once in the past five years and that viewing was pretty much ruined by my overly literal minded daughter who grumbled about plot holes and stuff all the way through.

I would like to re-visit it though, take my best shot at defending the dream idea (if I still subscribe to it), let you shoot it down, and then go merrily on my way.

I do remember feeling the same way as the guy in that thread who said it is either a flawed but fascinating attempt at an ambiguous dream ending or a potentially great movie destroyed by a happy ending.

[Qrazy]

Page 3 was the best. ;)

I don't even pretend to be in a position to debate this. I've only seen it once in the past five years and that viewing was pretty much ruined by my overly literal minded daughter who grumbled about plot holes and stuff all the way through.

I would like to re-visit it though, take my best shot at defending the dream idea (if I still subscribe to it), let you shoot it down, and then go merrily on my way.

I do remember feeling the same way as the guy in that thread who said it is either a flawed but fascinating attempt at an ambiguous dream ending or a potentially great movie destroyed by a happy ending.

Yeah I definitely agree with the latter point. It's expertly crafted and remarkably researched. I have the utmost respect for Spielberg as a visual director. It's only his sentimentality and some poor narrative choices which hold him back imo.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I think you're right about the ending, but as always with Fuller, he never half-asses anything. It also manages to be rooted entirely in ethics and principles and Fuller sees it more as a hopeful recognition of the kind of integrity the media ought to have as opposed to strictly a corny love offering. I almost can see Fuller the young newspaper reporter using Charity as a stand-in, swooning as she does over Phineus.

As for the emotional moments in the film, I can't remember specifics of everything you might be referring to (the film is due for another viewing), but I would say that I recognized the style as intentionally muting the emotional impact in favor of the lack of intimacy allowed by the frenzied, deadline-consumed nature of the business and perhaps it is why the ending stands out as even cornier than it may otherwise be.

Fair enough. I got the same feeling about the style, I guess it just didn't work as well for me as I hoped it would, or as Fuller wanted it to. I'd be interested to get your thoughts if and when you view it again.

[Winston*]

What kind of animal is that at the end of The Element of Crime?

[Qrazy]

Lemur.

[B-side]

...and it's a masterpiece, right? I love that film. Really captures the spirit of young love better than any other film I can think of. Really surprised Carax isn't more of a hot commodity among young cinephiles; his two Binoche/Lavant films (Lovers on the Bridge being the other) are as good as modern French cinema gets.

Masterpiece might be a bit much, but I did love it. I'll be checking out The Lovers on the Bridge next. I'm excited.

[Winston*]

Lemur.

Thanks. That's an awesome looking animal.

[Rowland]

Anyone catch the movie Fighting? The one about Channing Tatum fighting people? I caught about half of it the other day, and was surprised by how authentically wrought and altogether involving it was, given the typically cliche-ridden narrative. I'll try to watch the whole thing eventually, but what I saw was directed and performed with real integrity.

[Winston*]

Is Epidemic worth seeing?

[number8]

Anyone catch the movie Fighting? The one about Channing Tatum fighting people? I caught about half of it the other day, and was surprised by how authentically wrought and altogether involving it was, given the typically cliche-ridden narrative. I'll try to watch the whole thing eventually, but what I saw was directed and performed with real integrity.

I did. If you watch only parts of it, I can imagine it feeling that way. I would probably have the same reaction. If you watch it from start to finish, though, it's pretty bad (http://www.justpressplay.net/movie-reviews/40-reviews/5191-Fighting.html).

[Rowland]

I did. If you watch only parts of it, I can imagine it feeling that way. I would probably have the same reaction. If you watch it from start to finish, though, it's pretty bad (http://www.justpressplay.net/movie-reviews/40-reviews/5191-Fighting.html).I was most struck by how it lacked the polished sheen and more overt teen-audience pandering of last year's Never Back Down. What I saw of Fighting felt like a real movie, particularly in its strength for consistently setting an evocative milieu for its surprising focus on reasonably convincing drama. Perhaps if I had sat through it from beginning to end, its writing may have wore me down more as it apparently did for you.

[Qrazy]

Is Marilyn Monroe's lip quiver a nervous tic or is she doing it on purpose? Cause it's pretty obnoxious.

[megladon8]

Is Marilyn Monroe's lip quiver a nervous tic or is she doing it on purpose? Cause it's pretty obnoxious.


Link to an example?

[MadMan]

Charley Varrick (1973) ****Thoughts? I revisited it last year and thought it was pretty damn good. Walter Mathau should have taken more dramatic roles. People forget that him and Jack Lemmon were both really good actors, and went beyond their usual comedic fare. For now, I'd say that Lemmon was the better actor but Mathau was funnier. Maybe.

[Spinal]

Is Epidemic worth seeing?

Not really. It's pretty bad. Quite easily his worst film.

[Winston*]

Not really. It's pretty bad. Quite easily his worst film.

But the wikipedia summary makes it sound so neat.:sad:

[Raiders]

But the wikipedia summary makes it sound so neat.:sad:

It's wretched. Trust Spinal.

[Raiders]

Thoughts? I revisited it last year and thought it was pretty damn good. Walter Mathau should have taken more dramatic roles. People forget that him and Jack Lemmon were both really good actors, and went beyond their usual comedic fare. For now, I'd say that Lemmon was the better actor but Mathau was funnier. Maybe.

http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=202684&postcount=34824

[Watashi]

I saw my first Lon Chaney film in school a few hours ago. Neat guy that Chaney fellow is. Shame that he died so young.

[Ezee E]

I saw my first Lon Chaney film in school a few hours ago. Neat guy that Chaney fellow is. Shame that he died so young.
Nic Cage's favorite actor.

Have you seen Vampire's Kiss Wats?

[megladon8]

I saw my first Lon Chaney film in school a few hours ago. Neat guy that Chaney fellow is. Shame that he died so young.


He was pretty amazing.

Check out The Unknown, and if you can track it down, He Who Gets Slapped.

[Watashi]

Nic Cage's favorite actor.

Have you seen Vampire's Kiss Wats?
Nope.

[Ezee E]

Nope.
Nic Cage basically channels his idea of Lon Chaney in it.

You should check it out at some point. It's Nic Cage as the most Nic Cage he'll get.

[Boner M]

origami_mustache, your sig is full of deplorable ratings. Plz substitute it entirely with a funny Wats quote, stat.

[Grouchy]

Plenty of generally good movies seen over the weekend.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sundance/images/2009/01/20/adventureland_filmstill1.jpg

Adventureland was probably the most surprising, or at least the only one that went completely againt my expectations. I thought I was in for an indy comedy, when in fact it was a slow burning coming-of-age drama with some comedy naturally flowing from the characters and the workplace boredom they try to survive. What I loved the most were the quiet jokes in this - the protagonist's father, for example, is always seen with a glass of orange drink on his hands. Ryan Reynolds is amazing in it. The soundtrack is great although a bit obvious at times - I get it, it's the '80s, enough already. Still, I was gladly taken off guard by this very solid film - I think it's what Squid and the Whale desperately tried to be.

Then came Miss Pettigrew Lives For A Day, where I think most of the praise for the film's strenght should go to the unexpected pairing of Frances McDormand and Amy Adams. While the former plays a character which could have turned out ridiculous with genuine emotion, Adams starts out with a caricature and gradually unpeels other layers. The film itself is nothing special, although it's quite succesful at being a modern-day screwball comedy. A chick flick that's well written and easy on the eye.

http://blog.cine.com/criticas/files/2008/11/transsiberian-1.jpg

Transsiberian was another pleasant surprise. I recognize the merits of Session 9 and The Machinist, but the first one always struck me as too vague and the second one too dependant on its multiple plot twists to work, although it has an admittedly awesome atmosphere. But with this movie, Brad Anderson really gets to kick some cinematic ass. The film is slow-burning for a thriller, with over forty minutes (I'm sure) of exposition and building of the different characters. All of the actors are awesome, specially Emily Mortimer in the lead, and the script is genuinely intelligent and challenging for the audience. This is a movie that's strictly in the Hitchcock school, more so than any other thriller I've seen recently.

Then I saw El Secreto de Sus Ojos [The Secret of Her Eyes], which is a huge hit here in Argentina right now. The film is a crime drama with Ricardo DarÃ*n as a lawyer who can't let go of a case that went unsolved 25 years ago. The movie does a great job of creating a huge ensemble of colorful characters, and Guillermo Francella is specially awesome as the drunken sidekick for DarÃ*n's straight arrow "hero". Sometimes, though, it felt like the movie was a battle between the characters and the development of the plot - this could have been shorter and more to the point. Some of the metaphors used are a bit heavy-handed and the happy ending felt like too much of a compromise given how dark the story is, but this is a movie with a level of ambition that the rest of the cinema in my country should be taking notes about. The long take in the Racing football match is enough proof of that.

[B-side]

Is Epidemic worth seeing?

I liked it. It's interesting, if nothing else.

[Adam]

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss47/adamstone20/dead-snow-version2-tsrimg.jpg

Død snø

Yep, comes in pretty much as-advertised. Seven Norwegian twenty-somethings on holiday in the middle of frozen nowhere find themselves being hunted down and ripped apart by Nazi zombies. Cribs very liberally from Shaun of the Dead, Dog Soldiers, the Evil Deads and probably any other sorta offbeat, meta-horror type flick you could think of, but it doesn't have the charm of any of them. Also, (and this is kind of cliched to say about what's essentially a slasher flick) none of the characters have even a trace of identifiable personality, so when they do get horribly mutilated you don't really care. It has it's moments, especially 'round the middle 20 minutes or so, but it's ultimately weirdly unsatisfying and nothing you've never seen before

[Dead & Messed Up]

Transsiberian was another pleasant surprise. I recognize the merits of Session 9 and The Machinist, but the first one always struck me as too vague and the second one too dependant on its multiple plot twists to work, although it has an admittedly awesome atmosphere. But with this movie, Brad Anderson really gets to kick some cinematic ass. The film is slow-burning for a thriller, with over forty minutes (I'm sure) of exposition and building of the different characters. All of the actors are awesome, specially Emily Mortimer in the lead, and the script is genuinely intelligent and challenging for the audience. This is a movie that's strictly in the Hitchcock school, more so than any other thriller I've seen recently.

Session 9 > Transsiberian > "Sounds Like" > The Machinist

Brad Anderson is one of my very favorite current "thriller" filmmakers. His works have a distinct attention to character, and how character interaction builds violence. He's hardly one for overly plotting, instead placing the suspense on how far his creations will go with their ambitions and (more often) fears. And Session 9 merits comparison to Wise's The Haunting.

[Rowland]

Alright, I've renewed my Netflix account, and I'm going to start by catching up with some 2009 releases I've missed, beginning with Cargo 200. The reactions to this have been sharply divided, which always sparks my interest.

[B-side]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2lstbt3.jpg

Stagefright was a strange film.

[Ezee E]

Alright, I've renewed my Netflix account, and I'm going to start by catching up with some 2009 releases I've missed, beginning with Cargo 200. The reactions to this have been sharply divided, which always sparks my interest.
Starts off pretty good, but takes a horrible, bizarre turn.

[StanleyK]

Just rewatched Batman Returns, and wow, it's one of the most thematically laden films about human sexuality I can think of. It's on par with The Cook the Thief His Wife & Her Lover, no joke. Easily my favorite Batman film.

[megladon8]

Just rewatched Batman Returns, and wow, it's one of the most thematically laden films about human sexuality I can think of. It's on par with The Cook the Thief His Wife & Her Lover, no joke. Easily my favorite Batman film.


It's without a doubt the best pre-Nolan Batman film.

It's probably my second favorite Burton film, behind Ed Wood.

[Dead & Messed Up]

It's interesting as a Burton picture, less so as a Batman film. Probably the best of the four live-actions that came before Nolan.

I do think Mask of the Phantasm is better, though.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Also, I watched The Third Man over the weekend, and I quite liked it. The zither music wasn't exactly doing it for me, but I love Joe Cotten and Welles, so seeing them was a treat. And the look of the picture - wow! That final shot was also amazing. Exactly right.

[Boner M]

I love The Third Man on a moment-to-moment basis, for the performances, and the zither score rules, but there's something about its overall narrative shape that doesn't really do it for me. I'll be sure to rewatch it for the upcoming Carol Reed consensus, but I prefer Odd Man Out.

[Spun Lepton]

I'm glad more people are coming around to liking Batman Returns. I love DeVito's Penguin -- so disgusting and nasty. I think the bit where the penguins carry DeVito off into the sewer was the worst part of it, but I can overlook it, since I like the rest of the movie so much.

[Qrazy]

The entire climax of the film is idiotic.

[EyesWideOpen]

I refuse to get involved in anymore Batman film conversations.

I just watched The Soloist and have some questions for anyone whose seen it:

Did anyone else get a hugely pro-scientology propaganda feel from the film? I tried looking online and couldn't find any article or comment connecting the two. The main message of the film is that medication and diagnosis of people's condition cause more harm to people and that all they need is love and friendship. In one of the newspaper clippings they show on the screen the main focus of the camera is the article about Jamie Foxx's character but the secondary article is about Scientologists helping people in treatment by taking them off meds and talking to them instead and how people were supporting it. Their is also the randomly inserted scene to bash atheists and a randomly inserted buffoonish christian character.

[megladon8]

I do think Mask of the Phantasm is better, though.


Agreed, completely.

Mask of the Phantasm and Return of the Joker are both better than any of the pre-Nolan films.

[origami_mustache]

origami_mustache, your sig is full of deplorable ratings. Plz substitute it entirely with a funny Wats quote, stat.

I didn't think they were that outrageous. I don't know any funny Wats quotes...did he say something like WALL-E is the greatest film ever made, 8 months before it was released?

[MadMan]

Batman Returns feels like weirdness done for weirdness sake. I did not care for it, although its easily better than the Schoemacher films. Burton's Batman is good stuff, though.

I miss Batman TAS. I watched it when I was a kid, and recall how dark, forceful, and entertaining it really was.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I love The Third Man on a moment-to-moment basis, for the performances, and the zither score rules, but there's something about its overall narrative shape that doesn't really do it for me. I'll be sure to rewatch it for the upcoming Carol Reed consensus, but I prefer Odd Man Out.
I need to rewatch Odd Man Out, I ADORE it, but recent viewings of The Third Man have pushed it back into first place as far as Reed is considered. I think my appreciation for Odd Man Out will also appreciate though, I imagine they will duel it out in my mind to the end.

[number8]

Mask of the Phantasm > The Dark Knight.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Mask of the Phantasm > The Dark Knight.

Could be.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Just saw Mystery Team, or, should I say, Mehstery Team?

I'm really, really sorry about that one.

I liked the good-natured spirit of the "team," who some may know from the internet group Derrick Comedy. At two to three minutes, their online skits frequently offer big laughs. Their feature feels overlong and relies too heavily on scatology, especially during a sequence in a strip club involving a vulgar kid, c-sections, and breast milk. Meanwhile, comedians like Aubrey Plaza and Bobby Moynihan are mostly left to their own devices. I'd hate to say it's bad, because it's so clearly a film of passion, and there are some unexpected pleasures (one of the team never quite learns what sex is), but Mystery Team's current cult status seems something of a...what's the word...

C

[Qrazy]

The Misfits - I feel like this is probably a decent film but... does it make me a bad person that I was hoping Marilyn Monroe's character would get her head kicked in by a horse at the end?

[MadMan]

Finally saw "Marnie." I have to say there are some really interesting psychological elements involved, and Sean Connery is quite good (he should have been in more than one Hitchcock movie). But at the same time, I can't help but feel that this is movie is a bit underdeveloped, and while well made full of too many spaced out, dull moments that do not work. The last act is probably the best thing about the entire movie, which may say something about its overall quality. Yet I still say this is decent by the standards of the master, and certainly not as bad as "Dial M For Murder," which is the worst Hitchcock movie I have seen to date.

[Ezee E]

Dial M For Murder is bad? Say it ain't so!

[balmakboor]

I refuse to get involved in anymore Batman film conversations.

I just watched The Soloist and have some questions for anyone whose seen it:

Did anyone else get a hugely pro-scientology propaganda feel from the film? I tried looking online and couldn't find any article or comment connecting the two. The main message of the film is that medication and diagnosis of people's condition cause more harm to people and that all they need is love and friendship. In one of the newspaper clippings they show on the screen the main focus of the camera is the article about Jamie Foxx's character but the secondary article is about Scientologists helping people in treatment by taking them off meds and talking to them instead and how people were supporting it. Their is also the randomly inserted scene to bash atheists and a randomly inserted buffoonish christian character.

No I didn't make that connection, but those are some terrific observations.

[Raiders]

The Fallen Idol is actually quite easily my favorite Carol Reed film. Still really need to see Odd Man Out.

[dreamdead]

Finally saw "Marnie." I have to say there are some really interesting psychological elements involved, and Sean Connery is quite good (he should have been in more than one Hitchcock movie). But at the same time, I can't help but feel that this is movie is a bit underdeveloped, and while well made full of too many spaced out, dull moments that do not work. The last act is probably the best thing about the entire movie, which may say something about its overall quality. Yet I still say this is decent by the standards of the master, and certainly not as bad as "Dial M For Murder," which is the worst Hitchcock movie I have seen to date.

Boo. I love the way that Hitchcock obviously frames his painted backdrops in Marnie, making us question the reality of our perspective, the ways in which Connery is frequently given more of an animal sexual hunger than a caring and responsible "husband," willing to drive Hedren to suicide, and the visual metaphors sustained throughout (purses that repeatedly get close-ups and hint at female sexual anatomy). The biggest problem here is actually, to my eyes, is that Hedren plays Marnie with a rather one-note emotive range, which simultaneously suggests her limitations as an actress and her character's limitations to feel and connect emotionally.

[Boner M]

Accident is a total cinemagasm. It's The Conversation meets Final Destination!!

[Kurosawa Fan]

Accident is a total cinemagasm. It's The Conversation meets Final Destination!!

I'm in love with the thought of this combination.

[Boner M]

I'm in love with the thought of this combination.
You'll be in love with the film, as it certainly makes good on its premise... pretty much everyone here will love it, I imagine. It's nowhere near as outlandish as that soundbite makes it seem, though; it's not only the most formally impressive genre film I've seen in the last few years, but despite a bare-bones plot, it manages to be quite a moving character study of an emotionally detached professional, in the tradition of J-P Melville.

Gotta ask has anyone seen Cheang's Dog Bites Dog? My viewing company said it was crap, but I was so impressed by this latest film of his that I'll certainly seek it out.

[The Mike]

The Fallen Idol is actually quite easily my favorite Carol Reed film. Still really need to see Odd Man Out.Fallen Idol is darn good. I think I too prefer it to The Third Man.

[Watashi]

I'm sorry Spinal and Eleven.

[BuffaloWilder]

You know, watching it over again, I think Terminator Salvation may have two of the better-orchestrated set-pieces that I've seen, this year. It's a pity they're both surrounded by so much toxic muck. Visually, McG may have really found his groove - if he could just get everything else to gel, we'd be right on.

He really seems like he'd feel more at home purely as a second unit director.

[Winston*]

Is the 3D in Up as good as the 3D in Coraline or is it something I can just give a miss?

[balmakboor]

I just watched Silent Light and was pretty well blown away by it. Certainly ranks up with Days of Heaven in terms of photographic beauty. I actually had the thought come to mind repeatedly that what I was watching was transcendent cinema, like 2001: A Space Odyssey. It owes a lot to Ordet and yet it definitely finds its own unique place to live, not necessarily beyond Ordet (although I think I liked Silent Light better) but just some different spiritual place altogether. And such a stroke of genius to make the "other woman" so plain and not particularly attractive. Let's just pray that Hollywood never does a remake because they're sure to fuck that part up by casting Scarlett Johansson or something.

[Ezee E]

Is the 3D in Up as good as the 3D in Coraline or is it something I can just give a miss?
I liked Coraline's a good amount more.

[Watashi]

I liked Up's 3D a lot. Doesn't really add anything you haven't seen before, but it's a better experience.

[Bosco B Thug]

Is the 3D in Up as good as the 3D in Coraline or is it something I can just give a miss? It doesn't hurt, but yeah, Up's 3-D is nowhere near as integral to the experience as Coraline's, which I think is pretty integral. I'd say you can settle with 2-D.

[megladon8]

I've yet to see anything in 3D where I'd say that part of it is "integral".

Yes, the 3D in Coraline was fantastic, but I can't say that seeing it on DVD without the 3D lessened it in any way.

[BuffaloWilder]

Maybe you know more about the responsibilities of a second unit director than I do, but I'm not sure, given your few compliments, why that's a position he's better suited for. I haven't seen Salvation, but as a director we'd at least get those spurts of goodness you noticed, whereas that kind of finesse might not even crop at all if he were to be demoted.

Well, when a guy's got a point, he's got a point. Maybe he just needs better writers.

[Bosco B Thug]

I've yet to see anything in 3D where I'd say that part of it is "integral".

Yes, the 3D in Coraline was fantastic, but I can't say that seeing it on DVD without the 3D lessened it in any way. Well, I agree with you if you're saying 3-D generally shouldn't be integral to any film's most lauded merits.

But Coraline is an interesting film in that, from pretty much every angle (that is, thematically and otherwise), it's pretty much about spectacle and empty spectacle, and the 3-D just plays so nicely into that. I'm sure Coraline is fine in 2-D, but the film is pretty much built around the 3-D imagery. It's like 2 hours of the Paddle Ball man from House of Wax, only thematically integrated and thoughtful and not idiotic.

[Bosco B Thug]

When you called it integral, I immediately thought of the way Selick gave it a Wizard of Oz-esque formal twist by downplaying Coraline's actual home life in terms of depth (insisting on presenting it very flat and two dimensional) before significantly upping opening the space up once she ventures out and meets her Other Mother. Yeah, he definitely does do this.


I never really thought about it in terms of empty spectacles, and I'm not sure how that fits into the film, but I haven't really given it much thought since seeing it... I really wasn't that enamored with it on a first viewing. Well, I wrote something back when I saw it here, about how this film had to be one of the most "non-message-laden" films I've ever seen; that there's really no sappy message or anything in the end which you come to expect from children's films. And then something about how the story's theme is a warning against the perils of empty spectacle (the splendor of the Other life is actually misleading and destructive), all while the film itself revels in its meta-tier 3D treatment of the Dream world's way-random acrobatic mice and tight-roping fun, which interestingly (and I think purposefully) is more Dada/circus than Freud/Jung.

I don't love the film, either, though. It's just good.

[Ezee E]

I doubt that the walk through the dreamland or the unknown area, whatever it was called, would be as effective in 2D.

[EyesWideOpen]

The whole time I was watching Coraline in 3D I kept thinking how much I would have rather watched it in 2D. I've seen like 6-7 movies in 3D in theaters and the 3D effect annoyed more then enhanced any of the films.

[Ivan Drago]

It doesn't hurt, but yeah, Up's 3-D is nowhere near as integral to the experience as Coraline's, which I think is pretty integral. I'd say you can settle with 2-D.

I'm really regretting missing Coraline 3D in theaters. When I rented it on DVD and put on the glasses all I got was a shit ton of purple and not a lot of 3D. Yes, I had the DVD on the right side.

[Adam]

What's the thought process behind all these industry types pushing 3-D so hard as the sorta next big thing in moviedom?

How is it any less of a novelty than, say, Smell-O-Vision?

[Philosophe_rouge]

What's the thought process behind all these industry types pushing 3-D so hard as the sorta next big thing in moviedom?

How is it any less of a novelty than, say, Smell-O-Vision?
It's a marketing strategy to get people to pay to watch movies.

[Bosco B Thug]

I'm really regretting missing Coraline 3D in theaters. When I rented it on DVD and put on the glasses all I got was a shit ton of purple and not a lot of 3D. Yes, I had the DVD on the right side. Huh. So does 3-D on home video suck? It's great in cinemas.


What's the thought process behind all these industry types pushing 3-D so hard as the sorta next big thing in moviedom?

How is it any less of a novelty than, say, Smell-O-Vision? Yeah, I'm not all into it. Perhaps it'll be big as a development in entertainment and its slam-bangness, but it has no role in movies as art.

Well, unless it's Coraline.

[Watashi]

This surge of 3D is not a fad.

It's not going away anytime soon. Animated films are just the beginning.

[BuffaloWilder]

Your rating for Spinal Tap confuses and frightens me.

[Dead & Messed Up]

This surge of 3D is not a fad.

But many of us wish it was...

[Ivan Drago]

Your rating for Spinal Tap confuses and frightens me.

Maybe he meant 2 and 1/2 feet instead of inches.

[number8]

In case you haven't heard, Werner Herzog opened a film school (http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/movie-news/5905-werner-herzogs-film-school-sounds-crazyamazing.html).

[Boner M]

w/e & beyond

Why Does Herr R Run Amok?
The Embalmer (earlier film by Matteo 'Gomorrah' Garrone)
Brute Force
La Cienega
Blood and Black Lace
The Life of Oharu
the rest of Historie(s) of Cinema (excellent so far)

[Yum-Yum]

Weekend Viewings:

Twin Sitters
Poison Ivy: The New Seduction
Grandpa Loves Cream Pie #3
Ovoce stromu rajských jÃ*me
Assault of the Killer Bimbos
Bat Pussy
Magnificent Obsession

[Dukefrukem]

No Signal! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIZVcRccCx0)

[Benny Profane]

No Bright Star thread? It was about as boring as you'd expect a movie about poetry to be. God I couldn't wait for it be finished.

[Dead & Messed Up]

No Signal! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIZVcRccCx0)

Yeah, it sucks, but thriller filmmakers are kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place with cell phones.

Good montage. I knew it was frequent, but I didn't realize how pervasive it was. Props to Identity, Cellular, and Hostel for offering something more than the usual "No bars! Shit!" response.

[balmakboor]

No Bright Star thread? It was about as boring as you'd expect a movie about poetry to be. God I couldn't wait for it be finished.

Man, that's like on my must see list right now.

[Sycophant]

Next Day Air wasn't as fun as it told me it would be at the beginning. I don't believe it earned its ugliness, and I certainly don't think it earned that ending.

[Bosco B Thug]

I need to see another Campion fast. Probably won't be Bright Star, unfortunately.

WEEKEND: Dead & Buried, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas, Hail Mary

[Watashi]

Bat Pussy is underrated.

[balmakboor]

I need to see another Campion fast. Probably won't be Bright Star, unfortunately.

What have you seen?

[balmakboor]

W/E

The Wayward Cloud
Storytelling
Hi, Mom
War of the Worlds (Spielberg)

[Dukefrukem]

Yeah, it sucks, but thriller filmmakers are kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place with cell phones.


Agreed. Everyone has a cell phone nowadays.

[baby doll]

It was about as boring as you'd expect a movie about poetry to be.[Insert glib, dismissive comment here]

[baby doll]

I need to see another Campion fast. Probably won't be Bright Star, unfortunately.Sweetie is a masterpiece. The Piano is pretty good, despite the over-emphatic feminist symbolism. I need to take another look at An Angle at My Table. Holy Smoke has Harvey Keitel in a dress.

[Mysterious Dude]

I thought Bright Star was wonderful.


Yeah, it sucks, but thriller filmmakers are kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place with cell phones.

It's not really any worse than in older movies when the killer would cut the phone line, which was always placed conveniently on the outside of the house.

[Bosco B Thug]

What have you seen? Just The Piano, but I pretty mch went gaga over it.

[Eleven]

[Insert glib, dismissive comment here]

I think we should all keep this in mind when soori posts from now on. :P

[Adam]

Next Day Air wasn't as fun as it told me it would be at the beginning. I don't believe it earned its ugliness, and I certainly don't think it earned that ending.

Eh, I don't know. A little unsatisfying at times, sure, but I think it was charming enough to make it worth a watch. At first, it did seem to me like it backed itself into a corner and had nowhere else to go other than the way it did, but now I'm thinking the ending jibed with the rest of the movie just fine. You call the ugliness unearned, (and I kind of get that if you're just seeing it as this silly, post-tarantino ditty) but to me the whole film comes off like a playful nod to seedy '70s blaxploitation flicks and I thought it totally worked in that regard

[Dead & Messed Up]

Eh, I don't know. A little unsatisfying at times, sure, but I think it was charming enough to make it worth a watch. At first, it did seem to me like it backed itself into a corner and had nowhere else to go other than the way it did, but now I'm thinking the ending jibed with the rest of the movie just fine. You call the ugliness unearned, (and I kind of get that if you're just seeing it as this silly, post-tarantino ditty) but to me the whole film comes off like a playful nod to seedy '70s blaxploitation flicks and I thought it totally worked in that regard

For a while I thought you were talking about Up in the Air (not Next Day Air), and I was like, "Wow, the ads really hide a lot of stuff..."

:lol:

[balmakboor]

Just The Piano, but I pretty mch went gaga over it.

Sweetie is indeed great. I also loved An Angel at My Table. Those and The Piano are all I've seen so far.

[Qrazy]

I quite liked Sweetie as well, did not care for An Angel at My Table which just bored me. That woman's life sure was one bummer after another though.

[Qrazy]

Visitor of a Museum - Another interesting post-apocalyptic film from Lopushansky. It possesses all of the strengths and weaknesses of Letters from a Dead Man although it's a bit more formally precise while slightly less emotionally affecting. The strength of both films lies in superbly realized world building communicated by evocative and powerful imagery. The film's weaknesses lie in it's fragmented plotline which cuts out a number of connecting moments and as such the story and certain characters never quite congeal. However this approach furthers the dreamlike approach the film takes particularly near it's end. It's all ultimately left a bit too unfocused but there are many excellent scenes sprinkled throughout. I also didn't care for the lead actor here as much as I did in Letters. All in all though both films are unique and fascinating works of cinema.

"In a post-apocalyptic world, in which a large part of the population consists of demented and deformed mutants being kept in reservations, a man embarks upon visiting the ruins of a museum buried under the sea which can only be accessed during low tide."

Picture Tarkovsky meets Herzog.

Imagery (not plot spoilers):

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/8895/posxvidssdw2.jpg

[kuehnepips]

Weekend:

Up (3D) - with my children

[Watashi]

Qrazy, please spoiler huge long screencaps next times. It took me 10 minutes to load that page.

[Spun Lepton]

Qrazy, please spoiler huge long screencaps next times. It took me 10 minutes to load that page.

Indeed.

[Ivan Drago]

Weekend:

9
Cloudy With A Chance of Meatballs
Ponyo

[Yxklyx]

Weekend:

Sugar
The Son
something else like maybe Catch-22

[Rowland]

Milk (Van Sant, 2008) 61

The first half really dazzles, with convincingly performed homosexual sensuality, consistently expressive visual flourishes, a vibrant sense of humor, and the tension derived from Milk's burgeoning social-consciousness. The second half stumbles however as Van Sant's directorial approach settles into a more staid modesty, the conventionality of the piece's structure becomes increasingly apparent and a resultant degree of redundancy sets in, and Milk's love for opera is exploitated for some really silly symbolism. What keeps the latter half of the film afloat is its remarkably evenhanded portrayal of Milk's assassin Dan White, performed without a hint of condescension by Brolin with just the right blend of halfway decency, wounded egotism, and an intense temperment. His efforts are unfortunately offset to some degree by Diego Luna's repellent performance as a hysterically flamboyant lover that renders his scenes borderline-embarrassing to watch. Also noteworthy is how Van Sant gracefully applies archival footage throughout, and is it just me, or would the ending have been far more interesting had the White Night riots been intercut with the images of mass candlelit mourning?

[Qrazy]

Are you dinosaurs on dial-up or something?

[[ETM]]

Are you dinosaurs on dial-up or something?

It's not about downloading speed, it's Imageshack and their slow-ass hosting.

[Watashi]

I've seen more movies in the past week than I have in the past two months.

[Qrazy]

Hrm, expected a bit more from From Russia with Love. I think I prefer Goldfinger from the Connery films. Can't remember if I've seen Thunderball or not.

[megladon8]

Qrazy, please spoiler huge long screencaps next times. It took me 10 minutes to load that page.


There's also the issue of breasts in one of the photos.

[megladon8]

Hrm, expected a bit more from From Russia with Love. I think I prefer Goldfinger from the Connery films. Can't remember if I've seen Thunderball or not.


I've always found Goldfinger horribly over-praised. I just never got what was supposedly so special about it.

[Qrazy]

There's also the issue of breasts in one of the photos.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii241/drftguy123456/BOOBIES.jpg

[megladon8]

People post from work and school, you know.

Stuff like that could get them in trouble.

[Spun Lepton]

People post from work and school, you know.

Stuff like that could get them in trouble.

He says as he quotes the same non-worksafe image ... :|

Yup, and since I want to continue to access the site while I'm at work, I put anybody who posts work-unsafe photos on my ignore list.

[Dead & Messed Up]

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii241/drftguy123456/BOOBIES.jpg

Boobs are so cool.

[Spun Lepton]

:frustrated:

[megladon8]

He says as he quotes the same non-worksafe image ... :|

Yup, and since I want to continue to access the site while I'm at work, I put anybody who posts work-unsafe photos on my ignore list.


Didn't think of that, sorry.

Hitting "Quote" is like reflex to me now.

[Winston*]

Qrazy has some real cuntish tendencies.

[megladon8]

Qrazy has some real cuntish tendencies.


:lol:

Let's redo The Ramones' "Judy is a Punk" as "Qrazy is a Cunt".

[Boner M]

I got fired from my last job because my boss saw the word "reductive" while I was browsing match-cut. :sad:

[number8]

ANAL SEX

[balmakboor]

Rewatched De Palma's Hi, Mom! tonight. Still looks great and still a lot of fun. It may be my favorite of his films. I never realized before just how much Scorsese/De Niro were riffing on the character when they made Taxi Driver.

[Spun Lepton]

You're all a bunch of bastards. If I get fired, I'm going to pay a visit every last one of you! I'll bring a hatchet. :|






:P

[Qrazy]

People post from work and school, you know.

Stuff like that could get them in trouble.

If you guys can't see cleavage at work, get a new job.

In relation to the first post I spoiler tagged it immediately after Wats asked.

[Qrazy]

Qrazy has some real cuntish tendencies.

http://www.artbusiness.com/1open/images/06180916.jpg

[Spun Lepton]

If you guys can't see cleavage at work, get a new job.

Sorry, Q, some of us have desk jobs. Not everybody can be a strip barrista like yourself.

[Qrazy]

Sorry, Q, some of us have desk jobs. Not everybody can be a strip barrista like yourself.

I just find it hard to believe that you'd be fired or even warned for scrolling past an image of cleavage. The average female facebook profile picture has as much if not more cleavage than that. Which pages are you allowed to visit at work (actually curious)?

[Spun Lepton]

I just find it hard to believe that you'd be fired or even warned for scrolling past an image of cleavage. The average female facebook profile picture has as much if not more cleavage than that. Which pages are you allowed to visit at work (actually curious)?

Social networking sites are outright blocked by the firewall. Any sites with sexually suggestive or explicit dialog are usually blocked. (Honestly, I'm surprised that Match-Cut hasn't been blocked, yet. I'm anticipating it.) ANY site with the word "game" in the URL is blocked. We're given regular lectures on what we can and can not look at, and it essentially amounts to: You can look at your email, but everything else is on probation.

[Qrazy]

Social networking sites are outright blocked by the firewall. Any sites with sexually suggestive or explicit dialog are usually blocked. (Honestly, I'm surprised that Match-Cut hasn't been blocked, yet. I'm anticipating it.) ANY site with the word "game" in the URL is blocked. We're given regular lectures on what we can and can not look at, and it essentially amounts to: You can look at your email, but everything else is on probation.

Bummer, what's the job?

[balmakboor]

I have a confession to make. I'm a total and unabashed Brian De Palma fanboy. I finally had to give in to this fact this evening. Last night I rewatched Redacted and The Black Dahlia and loved both even more than ever before. I can especially watch the latter over and over again. Then tonight after rewatching Hi, Mom! I went to Netflix to queue up Dressed to Kill which I haven't seen in over a decade. And, whoa!, it isn't available. I went to amazon and saw that it is OOP. So I scooped up a copy from resellers for $9.00. Then I noticed something that saddened me. Resellers have almost 300 copies of The Black Dahlia for as low as $.01. One fucking penny. That's like an insult. And the rating was ridiculously low with review after review calling it the worst movie ever made.

Oh screw them and the horse they rode in on.

Btw, I love Mission to Mars as well and really enjoyed Bonfire of the Vanities until the last 10 minutes or so.

My De Palma Top Five goes something like:

1. Blow Out
2. Casualties of War
3. Hi, Mom!
4. Sisters
5. Carlito's Way

[Adam]

I like DePalma a lot, too. I recently watched Redacted for the first time and kinda hated it, but I'm still glad I saw it. Haven't seen The Black Dahlia because I heard from enough people I trust that it sucked, but maybe I'll give that a spin one day, too, especially if someone wants to give me a copy for a penny. Here's my top five of his

Blow Out
Obsession
Untouchables
Dressed To Kill
Body Double

Maybe too much Hitchcock-lite on that list, but hey, what are ya gonna do? What do you get out of Carlito's Way, though, balmakboor? That's like Al Pacino in his most full-on mug-mode and that's saying something

[B-side]

I need to see a lot more De Palma. I've seen The Black Dahlia twice. I like it.
______________

I'm thinking I'll watch my first Max Ophuls tonight. Divine. Looks interesting.

[Qrazy]

Don't care for De Palma. I admire his structural control and certain shots here and there but I find his drama to be very poor, ranging between stilted to very cheesy (he gets good performances sometimes, but I mean the drama in general). I also find his brand of voyeurism rather off putting. That being said after a recent television viewing of Mission Impossible III I decided to give MI I a rewatch. Haven't done that yet but I will in the next month or so.

[Adam]

I get the sense that he's not a wiz with actors, but the man knows (or knew) how to set up a shot and make a movie bleed with suspense. You gotta appreciate how cool and inventive so much of his stuff was, especially in the '80s, and even if he was a bit of a rip-off artist, he's still a way talented one

[MadMan]

This is Spinal Tap (Rob Reiner, 1984) - **½:This rating is wrong, damnit. WRONG! :|

[Watashi]

I'm not the only one who rates movies, Madman.

[Rowland]

I've always found Goldfinger horribly over-praised. I just never got what was supposedly so special about it.I haven't been terribly impressed with any of the early Bond movies I've seen. I'd rate Dr. No and Goldfinger in the 50s, and was surprised to find From Russia with Love terribly dull, rated it in the low 40s.

Maybe I'd prefer the Moore entries.

[transmogrifier]

Don't care for De Palma. I admire his structural control and certain shots here and there but I find his drama to be very poor, ranging between stilted to very cheesy (he gets good performances sometimes, but I mean the drama in general). I also find his brand of voyeurism rather off putting. That being said after a recent television viewing of Mission Impossible III I decided to give MI I a rewatch. Haven't done that yet but I will in the next month or so.

De Palma can't carry a narrative to save his life, but occasionally his cheesy earnest superficiality results in a gloriously entertaining film (Carlito's Way, for example). The Black Dahlia is abysmal, however.

[transmogrifier]

This rating is wrong, damnit. WRONG! :|

I've seen the movie once, and it goes all the way to meh-leven.

[B-side]

I'm thinking I'll watch my first Max Ophuls tonight. Divine. Looks interesting.

Consider me pleasantly surprised. I wasn't sure how I'd react to Ophuls, but if the rest of his work is as good or better than Divine, then I'm in for a real treat. The decor, coupled with the feminism, really worked. It was nice seeing such an active camera in such an old film. Might be a bit ignorant to call Divine a precursor to films like Mulholland Dr. and Inland Empire, but they are very similar. Naive, wide-eyed actresses being chewed up and spit out by the industry and brought into a slightly surreal world of crime and misogyny.

[EyesWideOpen]

This rating is wrong, damnit. WRONG! :|

It is wrong. It's too high.

[Raiders]

I luv me sum DePalma 2.

1. Blow Out [****]
2. Phantom of the Paradise [****]
3. Femme Fatale [****]
4. Hi, Mom! [***½]
5. Mission to Mars [***½]
6. The Fury [***½]
7. Sisters [***½]
8. Body Double [***]
9. Carrie [***]
10. Mission: Impossible [***]
11. Carlito's Way [***]
12. Redacted [***]
13. Snake Eyes [**½]
14. Casualties of War [**½]
15. Scarface [**]
16. The Untouchables [**]
17. The Black Dahlia [**]
18. Bonfire of the Vanities [*½]

I really need to see Dressed to Kill and to rewatch Casualties of War. I will eventually watch all of his films.

[Adam]

Untouchables gets kind of a bad rap with a lot of people and I don't really get that. It's maybe DePalma's most visually dynamic movie and, I dunno, I just find it incredibly watchable

[megladon8]

Scarface gets kind of a bad rap with a lot of people and I don't really get that. It's maybe DePalma's most visually dynamic movie and, I dunno, I just find it incredibly watchable


Yes.

[balmakboor]

"I like DePalma a lot, too. I recently watched Redacted for the first time and kinda hated it, but I'm still glad I saw it."

I've seen Redacted a number of times. It reminds me a lot of the interweaving of disparate materials in Hi, Mom! And the night vision house raid sequence in Redacted is a very close cousin to the central Be Black, Baby sequence in Hi, Mom! It also, of course, takes a differently angled look at ideas from Casualties of War and re-envokes De Palma's obsession with Vertigo's Scottie character, eternally tormented for failing to act at a crucial moment.

I suppose what I find most interesting about Redacted though is the extent to which it examines how we can't trust anything we see in a movie, not even documentaries, especially not even documentaries. I wrote a reaction to the movie quite some time ago that touches on this:

http://www.cinema100.com/2008/03/redacted.html

"Haven't seen The Black Dahlia because I heard from enough people I trust that it sucked..."

I can counter that by saying some people I trust consider it to be a masterpiece.

http://www.thehousenextdooronline.com/2006/09/all-is-loss-brian-depalmas-black.html
http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/film_review.asp?ID=2507

I'm still sorting through my thoughts. Firstly, the skill of craftsmanship and technique that is on display is almost without equal here. Every time I watch the movie, I'm more dazzled by how De Palma uses his camera. Secondly, I find the casting of the film to be quite interesting. De Palma seemed to have been forced by the studio to cast big names and, as a result, having actors like Hartnett and Johansson in these roles feels almost Bugsy Malone like, almost like kids acting as adults. But De Palma has put more thought into his casting than that suggests. I jotted down a few notes about the two female leads the other day:

"Hilary swank is included in the online urban dictionary as a term used to describe some with an androgynous appearance. Hilary Swank has always stood out to me as an example of highly noticeable lips enhancement. Her boob job and lip collagen injections have also drawn celebrity headlines saying she isn't boyish any more. She is first seen in a lesbian nightclub. Her Oscar winning roles have been as a transgendered teen who preferred life in a male identity but was born biological female in "Boys Don't Cry" and as an androgynous female boxer in "Million Dollar Baby."

"Scarlett johansson" may as well be urban slang for natural, voluptuous femininity. Scarlett has always struck me most by her full lips. She appears all natural. She is shot throughout in Hollywood glamour poses and her constant association with the household and the kitchen – and a pair of shots of her in the bedroom as seen by Bucky from the bottom of the stairs – constantly suggest a sexuality quite the opposite of that exhibited by Swank.

Yeah, they're very preliminary, but they do suggest that, in this day and age of "meta" being on everyone's tongue here at match-cut, that De Palma's casting decisions in The Black Dahlia should be added to the conversation.

There is a lot going on in The Black Dahlia. It is about a lot. It is about Hollywood and all of its swirl of tangled gender identifications and obsessions with image. I actually see it as an examination of Hollywood's and popular culture's fascination with cosmetic surgery. It also explores -- in many ways -- the notion of cutting the body in half, of separating the head from the genitals.

"Maybe too much Hitchcock-lite on that list, but hey, what are ya gonna do?"

This alludes to a criticism of De Palma that I thoroughly disagree with: That he is a Hitchcock rip-off artist. Sure, he borrows heavily from Hitchcock, particularly Psycho, Vertigo, and Rear Window. But he doesn't do so in a way that exhibits a lack of ideas on his part. He doesn't so to enter into a dialog between his text and Hitchcock's. Robin Wood wrote a piece years ago that examined the relationship between Psycho, Sisters, and Dressed to Kill. He did a fantastic job of extricating the complex interrelationship between the texts and demonstrated that De Palma wasn't merely copying, he was making careful inclusions and omissions and alterations that changed or even inverted the meaning of Hitchcock's narrative. I highly recommend reading Wood's chapter on De Palma in Hollywood From Vietnam to Reagan. Critics like Kael and White mostly adore(d) De Palma. Wood gives one sound reason to admire De Palma.

"What do you get out of Carlito's Way, though, balmakboor?"

I think Carlito's Way works on every level and it ages better than Scarface which is kinda crippled by its many '80s-ish affectations. I probably like it so much though because it is one of the most perfect expressions of De Palma's sentimental, romantic side. This is what I like about Mission to Mars so much as well. De Palma seems to have a very good understanding of love and the joys and fears that come bundled together when one falls in love. I wrote about this -- quite awkwardly I now think -- a while back in relation to M2M:

http://www.cinema100.com/2007/11/mission-to-mars.html

[Yxklyx]

Regarding The Day of the Locust's narrative Qrazy. I just found the story to be rather uninteresting and trite. Some characters are emphasized early and then somewhat neglected, new characters enter and aren't fully developed. I loved some of the individual scenes but the whole thing didn't hold together as it would have in an Altman film. I still liked it a lot though.

[Boner M]

Honestly, in the past few years I've gone from being elated by the resurgence of De Palma discourse via online communities and web critics, to completely exasperated by that same adulation. I mean, being cute and meta is fine and all, but his complete lack of any interest in narrative/characters/people/emotion makes me wonder why he doesn't just make non-narrative structual films or something. I still find his films fun, but they're really the kind of thing that one outgrows eventually.

[balmakboor]

Honestly, in the past few years I've gone from being elated by the resurgence of De Palma discourse via online communities and web critics, to completely exasperated by that same adulation. I mean, being cute and meta is fine and all, but his complete lack of any interest in narrative/characters/people/emotion makes me wonder why he doesn't just make non-narrative structual films or something. I still find his films fun, but they're really the kind of thing that one outgrows eventually.

While I agree that The Black Dahlia strays into a territory that is best -- or perhaps only -- appreciated as a sort of meta textual game, I don't agree in general that De Palma displays a "lack of any interest in narrative/characters/people/emotion." I find all of the films I listed in my top 5 for starters as being filled with interest in all of these things. I find Carrie and Mission to Mars to be thoroughly absorbed by the four things you mention.

With Redacted, I actually think De Palma did move very much in the direction of non-narrative, structural filmmaking, or something, with admittedly mixed results. I do find "Collateral Damage" -- redactions and all -- to be among the most powerful things I've ever seen in the cinema and the painted final image one of the greatest final images in any movie ever. The primary weakness for me with Redacted is its lack of a focused narrative drive.

I find the narratives of films like Carrie, Blow Out, Dressed to Kill, Body Double, and Snake Eyes -- to name a few -- to be highly engaging. There may be deficiencies of traditional logic and flourishes that smack of melodrama and high camp, but they don't bother me. And why should they bother me? When characters send a meal flying through the air to passionately jump each other's bones on the dining room table, why should I be bothered by its obvious soap opera theatrics? Is there a rulebook somewhere that I missed reading that says such corniness is forbidden in movies?

I'd rather ponder what De Palma is saying -- or at least trying to say -- through such moments.

[transmogrifier]

Honestly, in the past few years I've gone from being elated by the resurgence of De Palma discourse via online communities and web critics, to completely exasperated by that same adulation. I mean, being cute and meta is fine and all, but his complete lack of any interest in narrative/characters/people/emotion makes me wonder why he doesn't just make non-narrative structual films or something. I still find his films fun, but they're really the kind of thing that one outgrows eventually.

Nail. Hammer. Head. Sometimes, it seems like De Palma is merely a convenient rallying point for critics trying to prove they can have "guilty" pleasures too.

[Qrazy]

Honestly, in the past few years I've gone from being elated by the resurgence of De Palma discourse via online communities and web critics, to completely exasperated by that same adulation. I mean, being cute and meta is fine and all, but his complete lack of any interest in narrative/characters/people/emotion makes me wonder why he doesn't just make non-narrative structual films or something. I still find his films fun, but they're really the kind of thing that one outgrows eventually.

So Boner how's this Pusher series? Someone rec'd me Bronson so I'm going to check that out soon but if I like it I might look into the Pusher films.

[Pop Trash]

Honestly, in the past few years I've gone from being elated by the resurgence of De Palma discourse via online communities and web critics, to completely exasperated by that same adulation. I mean, being cute and meta is fine and all, but his complete lack of any interest in narrative/characters/people/emotion makes me wonder why he doesn't just make non-narrative structual films or something. I still find his films fun, but they're really the kind of thing that one outgrows eventually.

I often feel this way too. I loved a lot of DePalma's movies when I was a kid, mostly because they had violence, nudity, and a complete lack of subtlety. As I grew older and watched more of Hitch's movies, I realised (and I know this is old news and has been debated to death) how much he had been influenced by Hitch. Then again...I still often like DePalma. His movies are always totally watchable, even when objectively your brain is telling you (as in the case of The Black Dahlia) this movie just isn't very good. Even that had the crazy, campy lady with the weird smile hamming it up in every scene.

I have a sneaking suspicion M. Night Shyamalan will be for the 90s and 00s what DePalma was for the 70s-80s.

[ledfloyd]

a review by me of a 1916 silent film, hell's hinges (http://ledfloyd18.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/hell-needs-this-town/)

[The Mike]

My DePalma favorites would be Blow Out, Phantom of the Paradise, The Untouchables, and Femme Fatale. I'm dying to see Obsession.

Oh, I also love Body Double to an unhealthy degree.

[Raiders]

I have a sneaking suspicion M. Night Shyamalan will be for the 90s and 00s what DePalma was for the 70s-80s.

I have a strong feeling you're dead wrong.

[Eleven]

I have a sneaking suspicion M. Night Shyamalan will be for the 90s and 00s what DePalma was for the 70s-80s.

M. Night doesn't know the definition of "playful."

[Pop Trash]

I have a strong feeling you're dead wrong.

Oh come on Raiders. The French and Tarantino love Shyamalan already. French critics have long been influential (ie Bazin, Godard, and Truffaut championing Nicholas Ray and Fuller back when most American critics were still championing what Manny Farber would label 'White Elephant' movies).

That's two points in favor of my theory already. And I don't even like Shyamalan that much.

[Rowland]

My De Palma love has been well-documented over the years, but I've grown sorta tired of him myself, especially reading about his films. Still, I'll watch one every now and again and remember why he appeals to me so much. Which isn't to say I'm an apologist, because there are plenty of his films I'm indifferent to (The Fury, The Untouchables, Casualties of War, Mission to Mars) or flat-out don't like (Greetings, Obsession, The Black Dahlia, REDACTED). I will say however that most of his '90s work is severely undervalued.

[Bosco B Thug]

I have a sneaking suspicion M. Night Shyamalan will be for the 90s and 00s what DePalma was for the 70s-80s. Factoring in sophistication deflation, right? (in both the filmmaking craft and audience tastes).


Oh come on Raiders. The French and Tarantino love Shyamalan already. Ew, really?

I find the general moviegoing public is still pretty behind him as well (that means people who don't talk about movies on the internet) if that helps your point.

[number8]

M. Night doesn't know the definition of "playful."

http://www.agirlsworld.com/rachel/beat-street/reviews/pix/signs2.jpg

[Pop Trash]

Ew, really?

I find the general moviegoing public is still pretty behind him as well (that means people who don't talk about movies on the internet) if that helps your point.

Both The Village and Lady in the Water made Cahier du Cinema's top ten movies of those years over much more lauded films.

People also dissed on Hitchcock too before the young French critics defended them as someone to be taken seriously. Now look how many academic texts have been written about Hitch. Just sayin'.

[Eleven]

http://www.agirlsworld.com/rachel/beat-street/reviews/pix/signs2.jpg

Actually, Wide Awake may be a laugh riot, I don't know. But one decent (intentional) joke in six movies does not playful make.

But yeah, Joaquin's perf is one of the most charming in Shyamalan's filmography.

[Bosco B Thug]

Both The Village and Lady in the Water made Cahier du Cinema's top ten movies of those years over much more lauded films. Hmm. Well, at least my stomach's been taken easy on as opposed to you having said the duo The Sixth Sense and Signs.


People also dissed on Hitchcock too before the young French critics defended them as someone to be taken seriously. Now look how many academic texts have been written about Hitch. Just sayin'. So what does it say in that one deserves the reassessment, and the other doesn't? Not to say I believe there'll be academic texts on Shyamalan forty years from now.

[Grouchy]

De Palma is one of the most interesting directors in the Movie Brats generation. He's a master at creating tension out of nowhere and, contrary to the popular misconception, he gets outstanding performances out of most of his actors. He's also without a doubt a greater storyteller than Coppola or Spielberg. That being said, there are only two movies of his I dislike, and they're Black Dahlia and Redacted.

For the first one I'd say the main problem I had is that I had read the awesome novel first and found the movie to be too clumsy and literal in adapting it. It conveyed all of the complicated plot but none of the heart of the story.

With Redacted I thought the powerful material didn't gel very well with the somewhat exploitative approach De Palma used. However, the first half of the film is very powerful and I might have to watch it again to make a full judgement. I suspect I'd still prefer Casualties of War which covers a lot of the same ground in a "straight" way.

Sisters - 8
Phantom of the Paradise - 9
Carrie - 10
Dressed to Kill - 9
Blow Out - 10
Scarface - 9
Body Double - 9
The Untouchables - 7
Casualties of War - 8
Carlito's Way - 8
Mission: Impossible - 6
Snake Eyes - 8
Mission to Mars - 10
Femme Fatale - 10
The Black Dahlia - 5
Redacted - 4

[Grouchy]

http://flakmag.com/film/images/summerofsam.jpg

Summer of Sam - motherfucker, what a movie. For me it ranks somewhat middle tier in Spike's filmography, but there's no denying its incredible impact. The funny thing is that I can imagine the Son of Sam murders being covered by other directors like Scorsese or Stone with totally different results. And this movie is very distinctly Spike. Loved the characters, specially Leguizamo's with his Maddona/whore complex, and this movie made me realize how much Adrien Brody has wasted his talents after earning stardom with The Pianist. Nowadays it seems all he does is deadpan comedy instead of creating characters.

A couple of things didn't gel well with me, though. The usual Spike Lee excess didn't bother me since it went along with the story. And I understand the movie is not about the murders but about the small-time neighborhood paranoia they create. But some of the arrangement of the events is a little strange. When Spike reveals the real murdered being caught by the police, for example, he does so in a way that kills every possible suspense we could have felt about Brody's character who's the main suspect. And the most obvious of all flaws, why does the Ben Gazzara mobster character even exist? He has one awesome introduction scene and then it's like Spike doesn't know what to do with him anymore. His investigations go nowhere and the rest of his scenes seem to exist only to remind us he's still around.

Another thing I didn't understand - why does Leguizamo refer to the killer as Son of Sam before the first note is even found by the police? That's either another editing flaw or an implication of something else that's simply not in the story. This is glorious filmmaking that falls under the weight of its own ambition.

[megladon8]

Funny that after watching the three Apatow-fuelled comedies I own, I watched High Fidelity which is similar yet just so, so much better.

The writing is more clever in its humor (both sexual and otherwise), its direction is more affecting, the characters less grating.

Just a great movie.

[Mara]

I'm not quite finished with The Running Man yet, but it might be one of the five worst films I've ever seen.

I can't decide if it's so bad it's awesome, or if it's just plain bad. The hairstyles keep getting me giggling, though.

[Spun Lepton]

I'm not quite finished with The Running Man yet, but it might be one of the five worst films I've ever seen.

I can't decide if it's so bad it's awesome, or if it's just plain bad. The hairstyles keep getting me giggling, though.

I loved that movie when it first came out, but I think I was only 15 or 16.

I caught the end of it recently and was rolling with laughter. Ahnold was in overdrive with his, "GYAAAAHH!! HOOAAUUGGHLL!!" yells and screams.

[Pop Trash]

I'm not quite finished with The Running Man yet, but it might be one of the five worst films I've ever seen.

I can't decide if it's so bad it's awesome, or if it's just plain bad. The hairstyles keep getting me giggling, though.

Oh man I love The Running Man. I keep meaning to buy that on DVD.

"You Sub Zero? Now Plain Zero!"

"I think I'm going to throw-up all over you...Go ahead. Won't show on this shirt."

Sooo awesome!

[Raiders]

Both The Village and Lady in the Water made Cahier du Cinema's top ten movies of those years over much more lauded films.

And Redacted just topped their 2008 list. Why would Shyamalan be the "De Palma" of today when De Palma is still De Palma. I also don't think their styles are particularly complementary nor do I see why you would single him out.

[Ezee E]

Speechless rating. Awesome, I'm thinking.

[balmakboor]

And Redacted just topped their 2008 list. Why would Shyamalan be the "De Palma" of today when De Palma is still De Palma. I also don't think their styles are particularly complementary nor do I see why you would single him out.

Uh oh. Cahiers du cinéma put Redacted at the top of their list? Maybe I am wrong about it.

[Mara]

Oh man I love The Running Man. I keep meaning to buy that on DVD.

"You Sub Zero? Now Plain Zero!"

"I think I'm going to throw-up all over you...Go ahead. Won't show on this shirt."

Sooo awesome!

The dialogue was so ear-bleeding bad that I couldn't breathe, I was laughing so hard. ("I live to see you eat that contract, but I hope you leave enough room for my fist because I'm going to ram it into your stomach and break your god-damn spine!")

But it crossed the line into disturbing with the beat-her-up-tie-her-up-and-kidnap-her school of romance. He literally manhandles this woman the entire film, pushing, pulling, threatening, and swearing at her, and then at the end, they make out.

My friends and I were making awkward jokes ("Spit in her eye! So she knows it's love!") but the truth is it was really upsetting.

[Grouchy]

I just saw Superman/Batman: Public Enemies on YouTube. Not bad. Ed McGuiness draws in a style that adapts very well to animation, and the voice acting straight from the DCAU TV series is unsurprisingly awesome. But, most important of all, this movie is much better plotted than the comic-book it's based on. It establishes the numerous characters and events a lot better (even if no origins are explained since this is clearly a movie aimed at comic book geeks only) and, by cutting down on the reiterative Jeph Loeb dialogue and using only the good bits ("Clark... What the hell is a 'good' villain?") it makes the Superman/Batman dichotomy much more vibrant and believable.

[Rowland]

Cargo 200 (Aleksei Balabanov, 2009) 68

Aptly described by some as a Russian spin on the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre, both in terms of narrative and thematic structure, only this loses its sense of immediacy in the second half where Hooper's film continuously escalates in nerve-jarring tension. The first half of this film, after a relaxed period-milieu-establishing prologue, builds to a gripping scenario that, while inarguably contrived, is nevertheless remarkably effective. The second half goes into a completely unforeseen direction as it grows increasingly fragmentary and dependent on a sort of allegorical nightmare logic that certainly has its moments, but I was no longer viscerally engaged with the material and began to question whether the increasingly distaff tonal shifts were intentional, up to the conclusion that plays more like a dispirited sigh than the final twist in the gut I suspect Balabanov was going for. Still, I cannot say I was ever remotely bored, and it does attain the pitch of black humor by the final act, while throwing in some really caustic political commentary for good measure. It's beautifully lensed as well, which always helps.

[Watashi]

Beside 8, who is seeing the Toy Story 1 & 2 double feature next week? I am, obviously, but to the MC parents, this would be a wonderful treat to have your kids see these movies on the big screen. I have vague, vague memories of seeing both in theaters.

[megladon8]

I don't imagine many young kids doing well at a double feature.

Parents have a hard enough time keeping their kids interested in one movie.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Beside 8, who is seeing the Toy Story 1 & 2 double feature next week? I am, obviously, but to the MC parents, this would be a wonderful treat to have your kids see these movies on the big screen. I have vague, vague memories of seeing both in theaters.

Are there theaters showing them in 2D?

[Spinal]

Parents have a hard enough time keeping their kids interested in one movie.

Really? I don't tend to have this problem. He got a little impatient with Whisper of the Heart, but I think he was a little young for that one.

[megladon8]

Really? I don't tend to have this problem. He got a little impatient with Whisper of the Heart, but I think he was a little young for that one.


Restless/crying/loud children are one of the very worst things to have in a theatre.

It's why I often wait 'til a Pixar or Disney movie has been out for a couple of months, so I don't need to deal with that crap.

[BuffaloWilder]

Oh god, reading interviews with Tucker Max where he analyzes himself like some fictional character is just so - fucking - creepy. Lots of third person self-referencing.

[eternity]

Oh god, reading interviews with Tucker Max where he analyzes himself like some fictional character is just so - fucking - creepy. Lots of third person self-referencing.
It's his shtick. Tucker Max is a character of a guy with the same name and the mostly same lifestyle.

[number8]

I saw the double feature this morning, actually.

Theater was full of kids. They were surprisingly quiet and respectful. They were nowhere near as annoying as the parents who kept texting and checking the time on their phones, lighting up in the dark. If it wasn't a theater full of kids, my expletives would've been flying.

[Spinal]

Teenagers are far worse movie goers than kids.

[megladon8]

Teenagers are far worse movie goers than kids.


This I'll agree with.

I've stood up and yelled at teens behind me on more than one occasion.

[number8]

Anyway, my impressions. Toy Story just doesn't hold up well at all. It has some nice moments, but overall they were too concerned with making things wacky and Saturday Morning-y. It was kind of weird, because it's so different from Pixar's house style now. Plus, four fucking Randy Newman songs in one movie is fucking torture.

Toy Story 2 remains a masterpiece.

The 3D is interesting, but it's bound to disappoint people. It's incredibly subtle, because the movies were not made with 3D in mind, so there were like, a total of one of those "pop out" moments in each movie. The rest of the time they're used to seperate the 3D models from the backgrounds—and this is for the entire two films, throughout—but it is so subtle that it's hardly noticable unless it's one of the shots with a long-distanced background (the elevator scene in Toy Story 2, for example). I loved it, but I'm sure some parents were scratching their heads wondering where the 3D was.

[EyesWideOpen]

Oh god, reading interviews with Tucker Max where he analyzes himself like some fictional character is just so - fucking - creepy. Lots of third person self-referencing.

EW reviewed I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell higher then any other of the 7new release movies in the current issue. They gave it a B+. I've never put much stock in their reviews but that is pretty ridiculous.

[Ezee E]

Anybody before 3 PM in theaters are usually fine, and that includes teenagers. It's at night when the bad ones come... Mostly.

[[ETM]]

I'm not quite finished with The Running Man yet, but it might be one of the five worst films I've ever seen.

I envy you on the high average quality of viewed films.

I have a soft spot for The Running Man because of the surprisingly balanced portrayal of the show and its impact. I mean, it never goes into Robocop territory, yet retains a pretty sharp satirical edge and dark humor. The message gets all but lost in the horrendous acting and corny one-liners, which is what most remember from it, besides the violence.

A decent remake/retelling could be interesting, but reality television has pretty much killed any chance of that. The films with similar themes have since mostly taken the action approach, without any depth.

[Watashi]

For kids movies, I usually see the very last showing of the day.

I've made the mistake of seeing big movies in the 7 o'clock hour.... never again.

[chrisnu]

Beside 8, who is seeing the Toy Story 1 & 2 double feature next week? I am, obviously, but to the MC parents, this would be a wonderful treat to have your kids see these movies on the big screen. I have vague, vague memories of seeing both in theaters.
Me, probably with family. I tend to go to shows in the morning or early afternoon, particularly now that all shows before noon at AMC theaters are $6. I don't remember seeing either of these films in theaters, just on DVD.

[Hugh_Grant]

Roman Polanski said to be arrested in Switzerland. (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/09/27/movies/AP-EU-Switzerland-Polanski.html?_r=1&src=twt&twt=nytimes)

[shaun]

Roman Polanski said to be arrested in Switzerland. (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/09/27/movies/AP-EU-Switzerland-Polanski.html?_r=1&src=twt&twt=nytimes)Tough break, but I can't feel much sympathy for someone who drugs and rapes an underage girl, and then flees to avoid taking responsibility. He should have stayed in France or Poland.

[Grouchy]

Fuck, that's bad news.

I hope appeals and the support from the industry get him out of it.

[Skitch]

Watched Election...not the Witherspoon one, the triad one. Pretty interesting stuff.

[dreamdead]

Hit up Winter Light, Princess Mononoke, La Belle et la Bete, and The Heiress yesterday as the wife and I took a break from school and responsibility. Only the last two were new viewings, though I had retained so little of Miyazaki's film that it was like watching it all over again. Of them all, I must say that Wyler's The Heiress might have been most affecting, not only because it tugs at various melodramatic strings unapologetically, but because Montgomery Clift affects the right range of longing and disinterest throughout that even as the film's machinations work to reveal his facade, Clift's acting (in every sense of that word) give slivers of doubt and respectability to his character.

[ledfloyd]

Tough break, but I can't feel much sympathy for someone who drugs and rapes an underage girl, and then flees to avoid taking responsibility. He should have stayed in France or Poland.
allegedly.

[[ETM]]

allegedly.

Didn't he plead guilty?

[ledfloyd]

;207303']Didn't he plead guilty?
apparently, i wasn't aware of that.

[The Mike]

On the bright side, it's a fitting ending for an eventual biopic.

[balmakboor]

On the bright side, it's a fitting ending for an eventual biopic.

Since when is an arrest the end? This could be merely the midpoint.

[Scar]

Fuck, that's bad news.

I hope appeals and the support from the industry get him out of it.

I certainly hope not.

[number8]

The case confuses me.

He plead guilty, got a plea bargain, reported to Chino, served prison time, and was released early.

...but there's still a warrant for his arrest?

[number8]

I was hoping someone could explain that to me.

[Scar]

I was hoping someone could explain that to me.

According to wiki, he was sent to prison initially for a 90 day 'psychological evaluation', and then released after 42 days. That was not his prison sentence.

[shaun]

The 90 day psych eval was to be done prior to sentencing. After 42 days he was granted a stay in order to travel overseas for something film related. That's when he found out that the judge was likely going to reject the plea with the DA and sentence him to more than "time served". He didn't come back for the sentencing.

The judge probably figured 44 year olds who drug and sodomize 8th graders should maybe get a harsher sentence than a psych eval where he's allowed to come and go as he pleased. Understandable.

[number8]

According to wiki, he was sent to prison initially for a 90 day 'psychological evaluation', and then released after 42 days. That was not his prison sentence.

Hm. I thought the plea agreement was that all the drug and rape charges were dropped, and it was agreed that the 90-day evaluation was all there's going to be... unless the Judge changed his mind to trump up publicity—which many believe was the reason Polanski fled.

In any case, there's a pretty big chance he'd get out of it. France is fully behind him and both Sarkozy and the foreign minister, alongside Poland's, are going to ask the US for a clemency. I think his age, the suspicious circumstances surrounding the prosecution (there's evidence of misconduct) and the victim repeatedly asking for the case to be dropped would lead to the clemency being granted.

[megladon8]

The judge probably figured 44 year olds who drug and sodomize 8th graders should maybe get a harsher sentence than a psych eval where he's allowed to come and go as he pleased. Understandable.


He drugged and sodomized her?

I guess I misunderstood the case. I thought she has said repeatedly since the incident that despite her young age, she was entirely consensual.

Granted I still believe he was in the wrong and should receive punishment. I'm just hazy on the particulars of the case.

[number8]

He drugged and sodomized her?

Those charges were dropped. Polanski maintains that it was consensual.

So... allegedly.

[Pop Trash]

I saw the now grown woman victim on Larry King Live one time and she said that it was consensual, but that she didn't really want to do it and she basically allowed him to have sex with her so he would take her home faster. She also didn't seem that angry at him and my impression is that she wouldn't mind if they dropped the charges against him.

Also, she wasn't a virgin at the time.

[shaun]

You can read her grand jury testimony and determine how consensual you think it was.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskia1.html

[number8]

She also didn't seem that angry at him and my impression is that she wouldn't mind if they dropped the charges against him.

That's kind of an understatement. Earlier this year, she filed a court affidavit asking for the case to be dropped, stating that she believes Polanski has suffered enough and that he shouldn't be pursued any longer:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/12/polanski.case/index.html

[Pop Trash]

That's kind of an understatement. Earlier this year, she filed a court affidavit asking for the case to be dropped, stating that she believes Polanski has suffered enough and that he shouldn't be pursued any longer:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/12/polanski.case/index.html

I was talking about her responses during a Larry King interview with her around the time of The Pianist.

[number8]

I was talking about her responses during a Larry King interview with her around the time of The Pianist.

I know. I was providing more info.

[Grouchy]

Bah, I thought it was already pretty clear to anyone not into witch-hunting that the case was overblown.

[Scar]

Bah, I thought it was already pretty clear to anyone not into witch-hunting that the case was overblown.

:|

[Spinal]

While they have him in custody, can they investigate his involvement in directing The Ninth Gate?

[balmakboor]

There is a terrific documentary out there on Roman Polanski's case call Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired. I caught it on Netflix instant watch.

[balmakboor]

I finally re-watched Spielberg's War of the Worlds. Pretty amazing piece of work. I don't really understand the complaints about the ending. Spielberg so carefully set it up right from the very beginning. Or think of it this way, as Michael Moore would say: The son of a working class man is perfect food for the military, but there is no way the son of the rich and privileged will be allowed to die at war.

[Rowland]

Or think of it this way, as Michael Moore would say: The son of a working class man is perfect food for the military, but there is no way the son of the rich and privileged will be allowed to die at war.I don't understand your analogy. Is Cruise's character rich and privileged?

[balmakboor]

Just watched Solondz's Storytelling. I liked everything I saw, but when the credits started rolling I had that "Is that all there is?" feeling. Solondz has a way of growing on me though. I'll watch it again after a while. I know Palindromes went from meh to pretty great for me on repeat viewing.

[balmakboor]

I don't understand your analogy. Is Cruise's character rich and privileged?

No, he's a union man. Working class all the way just like all of the people terrorized by the aliens. His ex-wife and her new husband are definitely Boston upper class. Notice the glowing light Spielberg bathes them in when we first see them? The same light that flows out of the home at the end, in a totally untouched neighborhood.

There is also a striking visual link between his occupation -- lifting things and setting them down from high in the air -- and the tripods. It's sort of the whole return of the repressed monster horror film thing with what oppresses him via his wealthy employer coming up from underground -- his subconscious -- to attack him.

[Rowland]

No, he's a union man. Working class all the way just like all of the people terrorized by the aliens. His ex-wife and her new husband are definitely Boston upper class. Notice the glowing light Spielberg bathes them in when we first see them? The same light that flows out of the home at the end, in a totally untouched neighborhood.Hmm. Such an interpretation may have seemed more organic to the material if Spielberg had fleshed out this class-conscious sociopolitical angle to a greater degree beforehand. Also, you're forgetting that his wife's neighborhood, itself a middle-upper class suburbia, was obliterated earlier in the movie. They may not have been killed, but it suggests nevertheless that such an environment isn't precluded from the invasion. Of course, they were at least forewarned and able to evacuate, unlike the lower-class citizens whose church is among the first societal stabilizers to be undermined by the tripod as it emerges from the underground, a sly nod to (and refutation of) the original film's conservative conclusion.

[balmakboor]

Hmm. Such an interpretation may have seemed more organic to the material if Spielberg had fleshed out this class-conscious sociopolitical angle to a greater degree beforehand. Also, you're forgetting that his wife's neighborhood, itself a middle-upper class suburbia, was obliterated earlier in the movie. They may not have been killed, but it suggests nevertheless that such an environment isn't precluded from the invasion. Of course, they were at least forewarned and able to evacuate, unlike the lower-class citizens whose church is among the first societal stabilizers to be undermined by the tripod as it emerges from the underground, a sly nod to (and refutation of) the original film's conservative conclusion.

That true about the wife's house. And the house at the end actually belongs to the older couple. Her parents? Hmm.

[Qrazy]

Contrary to the popular misconception, he gets outstanding performances out of most of his actors. He's also without a doubt a greater storyteller than Coppola or Spielberg.

I disagree!

[Qrazy]

No, he's a union man. Working class all the way just like all of the people terrorized by the aliens. His ex-wife and her new husband are definitely Boston upper class. Notice the glowing light Spielberg bathes them in when we first see them? The same light that flows out of the home at the end, in a totally untouched neighborhood.

There is also a striking visual link between his occupation -- lifting things and setting them down from high in the air -- and the tripods. It's sort of the whole return of the repressed monster horror film thing with what oppresses him via his wealthy employer coming up from underground -- his subconscious -- to attack him.

I still don't understand your point, then why did the son survive?

[balmakboor]

Such an interpretation may have seemed more organic to the material if Spielberg had fleshed out this class-conscious sociopolitical angle to a greater degree beforehand.

I think he did flesh out aspects of it. The whole milieu may as well be out of a Spike Lee movie like Do the Right Thing and it is made very clear that those under attack are exclusively lower class. And those people have to learn to work together. They fight each other at first, over getting on the ferry, over the car. Then, when they learn to cooperate, they defeat the monster during that scene of everyone helping to pull Tom Cruise out of the mouth/anus of the monster. (That scene felt a lot like "everyone swim down" from Finding Nemo.)

That it is an upper versus lower class kinda thing is only really set up by the argument with the boss over returning to work after only four hours off and Tom saying its a union thing. And the wife and new husband -- clearly well-to-do -- escaping the whole fray by conveniently leaving early.

I think that the sort of interpretation I'm suggesting for the ending is what Spielberg intended, but the argument against this interpretation is usually "if that's what he intended, he didn't set it up very well." That sounds like the same argument against the "ending is a dream" interpretation for Minority Report. (Which I also agree with.)

These two endings -- along with the very sad "happy" ending for A.I. -- suggest to me that Spielberg is very interested in complex and ambiguous endings, but may not be quite yet a master of properly setting them up and executing them.

[balmakboor]

I still don't understand your point, then why did the son survive?

I'm suggesting the son survives for the same reason someone like George W. Bush was scooped out of harms way. The boy has a rich mom and rich grand parents.

I'm saying that the son initially got pulled away to fight because he is the son of a lower class man. Kind of a tug of war between feeding the boy to the military and protecting him from going to war made possible by the particular configuration of divorced parents.

There does seem to be a lack of commitment one way or the other on Spielberg's part between the sort of class conscious ending I'm suggesting and a sappy, happy ending though. But that halo-like glow of light surrounding the mom and new husband as they dropped off the kids and its link to the same use of light at the end (in a film where all of the rest of the lighting is very natural, almost documentary-like) seems to be Spielberg suggesting that no way is any harm going to come to these people or their kids.

[balmakboor]

Other than possibly that very brief scene of father/son reunion though, I think War of the Worlds is one of Spielberg's most thrilling and visually and technically accomplished films. It is filled with shots that are flat out knockouts.

[BuffaloWilder]

I think you may be seeing apparitions of meaning, balmakboor.

[megladon8]

Other than possibly that very brief scene of father/son reunion though, I think War of the Worlds is one of Spielberg's most thrilling and visually and technically accomplished films. It is filled with shots that are flat out knockouts.


Agreed completely about its visuals.

But I still find it to be lacking...something. It just isn't as great as it could have been.

It doesn't even touch Minority Report.

I hope Cruise and Spielberg collaborate again.

[B-side]

For those that are interested, I'm doing my top 30 of the 80s on RT with some other folks. I've posted #'s 30-15 already. I'll post them here in short form:

30. Dimensions of Dialogue (Svankmajer, 1982)
29. The Man Who Planted Trees (Back, 1987)
28. The Sacrifice (Tarkovsky, 1986)
27. The Shining (Kubrick, 1980)
26. Bad Timing (Roeg, 1980)
25. Virile Games (Svankmajer, 1988)
24. The Empire Strikes Back (Kershner, 1980)
23. Ms. 45 (Ferrara, 1981)
22. Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters (Schrader, 1985)
21. Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind (Miyazaki, 1984)
20. The Element of Crime (Trier, 1984)
19. Come and See (Klimov, 1985)
18. Videodrome (Cronenberg, 1983)
17. Blue Velvet (Lynch, 1986)
16. Mauvais sang (Carax, 1986)
15. Street of Crocodiles (Quay, 1986)

[Grouchy]

I disagree!
I know!

I really don't see any of those social themes on War of the Worlds. It occurs to me that maybe they are something that the writer (David Koepp, right?) wanted to introduce on the film, but Spielberg wasn't really interested on it, or he would have explored it better.

[Mysterious Dude]

Other than possibly that very brief scene of father/son reunion though, I think War of the Worlds is one of Spielberg's most thrilling and visually and technically accomplished films. It is filled with shots that are flat out knockouts.

I don't give Spielberg much credit for making technically accomplished films; he has an almost infinite amount of resources at his disposal, so the technical elements ought to be top notch.

And if War of the Worlds has anything intelligent to say, it is buried under a mountain of stupidity.

[Grouchy]

I don't give Spielberg much credit for making technically accomplished films; he has an almost infinite amount of resources at his disposal, so the technical elements ought to be top notch.
That's a stupid argument. He has the same amount of resources at his disposal as Michael Bay.

[Mysterious Dude]

That's a stupid argument. He has the same amount of resources at his disposal as Michael Bay.
I think Bay's films are technically accomplished, too.

[Grouchy]

I think Bay's films are technically accomplished, too.
His action scenes are just confusing, though. Quick cut / explosion / noise / actor's face / another explosion.

I don't like War of the Worlds, but it has some kick-ass, sustained shots.

[number8]

Jackie Earle Haley should star as Roman Polanski in the biopic.

[megladon8]

I don't give Spielberg much credit for making technically accomplished films; he has an almost infinite amount of resources at his disposal, so the technical elements ought to be top notch.


This doesn't make any sense to me.

[Mysterious Dude]

His action scenes are just confusing, though. Quick cut / explosion / noise / actor's face / another explosion.

I don't like War of the Worlds, but it has some kick-ass, sustained shots.

I'll grant that Spielberg has a better editor, but in terms of cinematography and visual effects, I think War of the Worlds and Pearl Harbor are about equal (i.e. very good).

[megladon8]

Cinematography and visual effects are leagues apart.

[Mysterious Dude]

Cinematography and visual effects are leagues apart.

I do not believe I have attempted to argue otherwise.

[B-side]

The Testament of Orpheus (1960) ***½

How does this compare to Orpheus? I liked that one well enough, but it was a pretty big letdown in comparison to The Blood of a Poet.