28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Qrazy]

Rescue Dawn is everything I expected from the Herzog/Bale team-up and a bit more. It made me want to watch the previous documentary Little Dieter Needs to Fly. Basically a story that praises human endurance and determination in the face of adversity, it features the traditional Herzog music to great effect. Bale is awesome in the role, and so is Steve Zahn going progressively insane from suffering. It can be called Herzog's first Hollywood movie, I guess - there's an instance of a CGI effect during the plane crash that I would've never expected on one of his films, what with the voodoo of location and all that.

I felt it was an above average film but was a little disappointing overall coming from Herzog. I too now want to see the original doc though.

[Sycophant]

If you want a stiff, feature-length, forced version of Curb Your Enthusiasm without the zaniness or, y'know, the funny--but with a extra doses of self-loathing and self-pity--then has I Want Someone to Eat Cheese With ever got something to offer you!

[Sven]

If you want a stiff, feature-length, forced version of Curb Your Enthusiasm without the zaniness or, y'know, the funny--but with a extra doses of self-loathing and self-pity--then has I Want Someone to Eat Cheese With ever got something to offer you!

Sounds like the most obnoxious movie of all time.

[Sycophant]

Sounds like the most obnoxious movie of all time.I would go out of my way to keep you from watching it, my friend.

[Duncan]

Went to a screening of The Death of Mr. Lazarescu tonight. I dunno. It's very long. It's point was made very early on. The titular moment isn't very effective. The verité style isn't as nuanced as The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (apparently Puiu is compared to Cassavetes) or as compositionally interesting as its compatriot film 4 Months, 3 Weeks, 2 Days. It is written well, though sometimes the doctors are outright caricatures. Apparently the writer was responsible for the dinner table scene in 4M, 3W, 2D which I thought was the weakest part of that film. I have no complaints about the acting though. Solid all around. So, yeah, fairly disappointing.

[Grouchy]

I felt it was an above average film but was a little disappointing overall coming from Herzog. I too now want to see the original doc though.
There is a lot of Herzogness on display, though, what with the laughing midget and the investigation of nature's horrors.

The Devil-Doll is one of the weirdest camp classics anyone's ever likely to find. Directed by Tod Browning with a cross-dressing central performance by Lionel Barrymore, it's about a prison fugitive on a revenge quest against fellow businessmen who framed him and ruined his family. On the trip he runs across a dying mad scientist aided by a scary woman named Malita, who has managed to reduce people to 1/6 their original size, so that overpopulation will never cause hunger. Of course, he steals the invention for his own purposes, and then dresses up as a granny just for the kicks. While the premise and most of the dialogue are completely ridiculous, the film is made in earnest, and features excellent special effects and very solid performances. What's more, Barrymore's plight is very dramatic and most of the screentime is spent in developing the character and his family. Worth a look.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay was uninspired mostly, save the character of Rob Corddry, whose obliviousness and ignorance produce most of the relatively scant laugh-out-loud moments in the picture.

[Ezee E]

Weekend movie thoughts:

Backdraft - The epitomy of style over substance. While the scenes with fire were pretty great, even by today's standards, the movie has one of the worst stories I've seen. Practically following the Syd Field standard (I don't think his books existed just yet), you can figure out what will happen within the first thirty minutes of the movie. It tops off with a Rocky-esque montage that is quite hilarious.

Werckmeister Harmonies - Also style over substance in my mind, but in the fashion of Alain Resnais. I couldn't help but think of Last Year At Marienbad (a movie I hate) while watching this. Captivating, but without care, and a little too into its own substance as Antoine's criticism of the shots being too long is absolutely correct.

[Boner M]

The social commentary in The Phenix City Story might be as blunt as it gets, but the film's still dynamite as a pulpy indictment of corruption and vigilanteism. I'd seen the infamous child murder scene previously on Martin Scorsese's Personal Journey Through the Movies, but it's even more hard-hitting in the film's context. Great stuff; should really get to Karlson's Kansas City Confidential sometime.

[balmakboor]

Weekend movie thoughts:

Backdraft - Practically following the Syd Field standard (I don't think his books existed just yet), you can figure out what will happen within the first thirty minutes of the movie.

Oh brother. It has become so fashionable to knock Syd Field lately. Yes, his books existed. Backdraft is from 1991. His book Screenplay came out in 1979. There is nothing wrong with what he says in his books. Nothing that inherently leads to weak or predictable stories. The same with Christopher Vogler. It is all in the application. If one follows the advice in their books slavishly and lazily like a template, then yes the script would be weak and obvious. Backdraft is a great example of this. Terrible terrible movie.

But I could go on and on listing movies that match their descriptions exactly that would paint an entirely different impression. Chinatown, Network, 12 Angry Men, Ordinary People, Raging Bull, Au revoir les enfants, 4M3W2D, The Lord of the Rings, 8 1/2, Ikiru, Forbidden Games, Dawn of the Dead, Casablanca, Citizen Kane, ... All of those as well as 1000s of other very good films can effortlessly be mapped to the Field and Vogler/Campbell paradigms. Hell, even Pulp Fiction does so. Vogler devoted a whole chapter to demonstrating this.

The difference between the great Field/Vogler-like films and the crappy ones isn't Field/Vogler. It's a crappy screenwriter. (And Ron Howard has managed to saddle himself with some of the crappiest.)

[D_Davis]

Oh brother. It has become so fashionable to knock Syd Field lately. Yes, his books existed. Backdraft is from 1991. His book Screenplay came out in 1979. There is nothing wrong with what he says in his books. Nothing that inherently leads to weak or predictable stories. The same with Christopher Vogler. It is all in the application. If one follows the advice in their books slavishly and lazily like a template, then yes the script would be weak and obvious. Backdraft is a great example of this. Terrible terrible movie.

But I could go on and on listing movies that match their descriptions exactly that would paint an entirely different impression. Chinatown, Network, 12 Angry Men, Ordinary People, Raging Bull, Au revoir les enfants, 4M3W2D, The Lord of the Rings, 8 1/2, Ikiru, Forbidden Games, Dawn of the Dead, Casablanca, Citizen Kane, ... All of those as well as 1000s of other very good films can effortlessly be mapped to the Field and Vogler/Campbell paradigms. Hell, even Pulp Fiction does so. Vogler devoted a whole chapter to demonstrating this.

The difference between the great Field/Vogler-like films and the crappy ones isn't Field/Vogler. It's a crappy screenwriter. (And Ron Howard has managed to saddle himself with some of the crappiest.)

Excellent! Well said.

As a huge admirer of both Field and Vogler, I totally agree.

[Winston*]

I'm becoming pretty sure the only reason I visit Slant with the regularity I do is that it has a nicer website design than the other film criticism sites.

[MacGuffin]

Werckmeister Harmonies - Also style over substance in my mind, but in the fashion of Alain Resnais. I couldn't help but think of Last Year At Marienbad (a movie I hate) while watching this. Captivating, but without care, and a little too into its own substance as Antoine's criticism of the shots being too long is absolutely correct.

This post makes no sense.

[Qrazy]

Werckmeister Harmonies - Also style over substance in my mind, but in the fashion of Alain Resnais. I couldn't help but think of Last Year At Marienbad (a movie I hate) while watching this. Captivating, but without care, and a little too into its own substance as Antoine's criticism of the shots being too long is absolutely correct.

There's a distinct difference between style over substance and style as substance. Now the style may irritate you (in both Resnais' and Tarr's cases) but that doesn't mean it's not substantitive.

Although the depth and clarity of substance are certainly up for debate in all cases you'll have to make more direct criticism of the substance in order to get any reasoned feedback.

[balmakboor]

I've never seen Last Year At Marienbad. I really should get on it. I've always been interested ever since reading about it in Bordwell's "Film Art" textbook.

[Qrazy]

I've never seen Last Year At Marienbad. I really should get on it. I've always been interested ever since reading about it in Bordwell's "Film Art" textbook.

It's pretty unique and brilliant... the only thing I couldn't stand was the score, it really grates on the nerves.

[balmakboor]

It's pretty unique and brilliant... the only thing I couldn't stand was the score, it really grates on the nerves.

Eh, I made it through Mick Jagger's score for Invocation of My Demon Brother. I can make it through anything.

[Doclop]

It's a brilliant way of showing the character's grasp on reality slipping. I do fully believe that he committed all the murders, but I think the details got muddled in his head as he lost more and more of his sanity.
I think my read on the psychological and social implications are similar to yours, however, I always think the never-ending discussion of what happened vs. what is imagined is fairly moot. There is no answer to that because that's not what's being addressed in the film. The escalating richness of fantasy is purely a storytelling device meant to strengthen the theme, not complicate the plot. It is what it is. Dream or reality is seemingly besides the point in my estimation.

[Doclop]

Man, I love having Starz On Demand.

They have The Proposition and the 3 hour Grindhouse cut on HD!
Hmmm. That really is cool, particularly about Grindhouse, as that's not available commercially at all, let alone in HD. Too bad only 1080i...

[Qrazy]

I think my read on the psychological and social implications are similar to yours, however, I always think the never-ending discussion of what happened vs. what is imagined is fairly moot. There is no answer to that because that's not what's being addressed in the film. The escalating richness of fantasy is purely a storytelling device meant to strengthen the theme, not complicate the plot. It is what it is. Dream or reality is seemingly besides the point in my estimation.

I don't see it as beside the point. It is a device but it's also essential to the story being told and is thematic relevant to the 'psychoticness' the character has lapsed into.

But yeah it's an open question and left an open question so arguing one way or the other is what's moot.

[Doclop]

I don't see it as beside the point. It is a device but it's also essential to the story being told and is thematic relevant to the 'psychoticness' the character has lapsed into.

But yeah it's an open question and left an open question so arguing one way or the other is what's moot.
Those scenes are thematically relevant, but I'm not sure how the perception that it is either a dream or reality even enters the equation as meaningful to begin with. Just because there are so many fantastic occurrences doesn't mean we must now question whether its basis is in reality as a means to a thematic end, feels a little like external preconceived notions are conflating the issue. Feeding a cat to an ATM is obviously not a realistic situation, but isn't the point that something so absurd could go unnoticed or unquestioned, not just that it is absurd or a fantasy to begin with? You say it's an open question, but I guess I'm just missing where it was even asked in the first place.

[Qrazy]

Those scenes are thematically relevant, but I'm not sure how the perception that it is either a dream or reality even enters the equation as meaningful to begin with. Just because there are so many fantastic occurrences doesn't mean we must now question whether its basis is in reality as a means to a thematic end, feels a little like external preconceived notions are conflating the issue. Feeding a cat to an ATM is obviously not a realistic situation, but isn't the point that something so absurd could go unnoticed or unquestioned, not just that it is absurd or a fantasy to begin with? You say it's an open question, but I guess I'm just missing where it was even asked in the first place.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

It's left ambiguous whether or not what he's experiencing is dream or reality and to what degree it is dream and to what degree reality. This question is fairly apparent throughout the film as it is in many films in fact it's an open philosophical question in general... how much of what we perceive is 'real' and how much 'illusion'.

It's particularly thematically relevant here because we are experiencing the reality of a serial killer... or is he actually killing? It makes a difference for his state of mind and culpability of he's actually killing or if he just thinks/desires to kill. If he's actually killing and no one in society cares that's one thing... if he's just imagining these killings that's another thing... since the film allows for both possibilities to exist it therefore allows itself to communicate all the more (as a storytelling device as you point out) because it can comment both on th psychology of the character losing his grip on reality and the values of the society which will look the other way when white collar criminals prey on people of little to no 'social consequence'.

You're right that coming to a conclusion about the issue... is it dream or reality is impossible because the film (as it is with many films) consciously leaves the question open... but it's still a relevant and important question.

[SirNewt]

So should I just buy 'The Yakuza Papers" or should I be patient and watch them through Netflix?

[Stay Puft]

Has anybody seen The Man from Earth? Based on a screenplay that was, apparently, the last thing Jerome Bixby finished writing before he died. I could see this working much better as a short story. There's not much that strikes one as cinematic in a story about a small group people talking for two hours in a guy's living room, and sure enough the execution is fairly inconsistent anyways. Some of it is dialogue, which can get lame, but a lot of it is a mixed bag of performances, line delivery, and directing choices (right down to a terrible song for the closing credits).

However, I found it rather compelling as a conceptual work, as a simple narrative about a guy who begins spinning a story and captures an audience in the process, on the strength of his storytelling. The basic premise is that an academic professor decides to retire after ten years, and at an impromptu going away party, reveals to his colleagues that he is fourteen thousand years old. From there he begins telling his life story, and engages his audience in a bit of intellectual exercise, as they ponder the "what if" of a Cro-Magnon man who has survived to the present day, and by extension discuss science, philosophy, religion, human nature, etc. It captures everything I love about speculative fiction, and is indeed a celebration of the genre as such. I don't know if I like the ending, though (it's entirely predictable and almost lazy). But it's certainly worth a look for fans of speculative fiction.

[Qrazy]

So should I just buy 'The Yakuza Papers" or should I be patient and watch them through Netflix?

I've only seen the first one but based on that I recommend Netflix. I still want to see the rest but I wouldn't recommend a blind buy.

[Melville]

I'm with Rouge. I don't agree, keeping the question alive... is it real or a hallucination? This doesn't rob the film of anything it just gives it a little negative capability to the proceedings.
I find the question uninteresting, at least in the form the film presented it in. I'm all for negative capability, but only when the ambiguities make the whole more interesting. In this case, the nuances of the ambiguity never seemed to be explored. It almost seemed like two completely different storylines unfolding, each one rendering the other irrelevant rather than each one rendering the other ambiguous.


It's hard to follow up on one of the greatest openings of any film.
True. That opening rocked.

[Qrazy]

I find the question uninteresting, at least in the form the film presented it in. I'm all for negative capability, but only when the ambiguities make the whole more interesting. In this case, the nuances of the ambiguity never seemed to be explored. It almost seemed like two completely different storylines unfolding, each one rendering the other irrelevant rather than each one rendering the other ambiguous.


Ah well I see the technique as a useful device as much as it's also something that can be metaphysically/epistemologically examined. The film can't do everything and it takes moral concerns rather than epistemological ones as it's central concern... but by employing the ambiguous device, the moral becomes grounded in the epistemological and metaphysical, without the filmmakers having to devote storytelling time to examining the dream/reality dichotomy itself. I agree the nuances of the device aren't explored on a subtextual level but I don't agree at all that the device doesn't unify the two separate storylines... in fact I think the dream/supernatural/reality distinction here serves as the center of the hour glass... giving each storyline room to filter past each other and play off one another... i.e. is the effectiveness of the surgery what will cure him or is it winning his trial and therefore the continuance of his life a primarily supernatural and/or moral concern? It's like a very theatrical Ordet without the existential weight or necessarily pro-faith conclusion.

Just to be clear, I don't think it's an amazing film or anything... judgment in heaven is just way too overt for me and formally I agree the film doesn't live up to it's beginning... but I have no problems with the storytelling device in this instance.

[Watashi]

Harold and Kumar 2 was hilarious.

"I aint kidding about that Kool-Aid!"

I know there are fans of the first film on this site, anyone see the sequel?

[Sycophant]

Harold and Kumar 2 was hilarious.

"I aint kidding about that Kool-Aid!"

I know there are fans of the first film on this site, anyone see the sequel?
I'm glad to see some positive response. I'm a huge fan of the original and was a little worried about the tepid reaction the sequel's getting--though I was still gonna see it. Friday. If I can't wing sooner.

[MadMan]

Harold and Kumar 2 was hilarious.

"I aint kidding about that Kool-Aid!"

I know there are fans of the first film on this site, anyone see the sequel?I love the original. I'll be seeing the sequel in theaters after the semester ends.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I'm probably seeing Harold and Kumar 2 tomorrow. I have laugh-expectations. At the very least it'll be better than Prom Night, my last new release.

Tonight went to see Pierrot le fou on the big screen. I was really wet and cold because I walked, so I was uncomfortable throughout. Also some really mature jerk-wads behind me were making fun of me under the assumption that I don't understand or speak french. Really assholish. The movie itself was delightfully absurd, and surprisingly funny. I wouldn't rank it among my very favourite Godard but I enjoyed the overall experience and the general convulusion. It was pretty too.

[megladon8]

Wow, I'm terribly sorry about that theatre experience, Philosophe.

That's just unacceptable. I would have told those guys off...and I would have done it in French for the added sting.

[Derek]

Tonight went to see Pierrot le fou on the big screen. I was really wet and cold because I walked, so I was uncomfortable throughout. Also some really mature jerk-wads behind me were making fun of me under the assumption that I don't understand or speak french. Really assholish. The movie itself was delightfully absurd, and surprisingly funny. I wouldn't rank it among my very favourite Godard but I enjoyed the overall experience and the general convulusion. It was pretty too.

Glad you at least enjoyed Pierrot - it's my favorite Godard. He has a great sense of humor and I'm always amazed when that element of his work is largely overlooked.

I feel your pain regarding assholes. I walked to 7-11 (a mini-mart) this morning soon after showering and the girl working the DARE stand, asking for friggin' donations no less, literally started giving me shit about my hair being a little wet. She said I should've put a hat on or something. After nodding and basically ignoring her on my way in, she proceeded to ask me for a donation on my way out and continued giving me shit after I looked at her and dropped my change into my pocket. Let the kids have their drugs.

[Stay Puft]

Harold and Kumar 2 was hilarious.

"I aint kidding about that Kool-Aid!"

I know there are fans of the first film on this site, anyone see the sequel?

Yup, I enjoyed it. Maybe not as much as the first, but the strength of the cast (moreso than the material itself, perhaps) keeps it going.

[origami_mustache]

Twilight of the Ice Nymphs most resembles a gawdy made for television sci-fi melodrama you would likely see on late night "Skinemax." Maddin satirizes the most unappealing aesthetic style/genre in existence; one that in fact is so amusingly lame that no parody of it could ever be half as funny or entertaining. I suppose it would fit in nicely with the schlock The Sci-fi Channel is showing these days though.

However, this music video he directed for Sparklehorse's "It's a Wonderful Life" is fantastic.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MwHHgDaR72I/default.jpg (http://youtube.com/watch?v=MwHHgDaR72I)

[SirNewt]

Yup, I enjoyed it. Maybe not as much as the first, but the strength of the cast (moreso than the material itself, perhaps) keeps it going.

I strongly disagree. The first film actually had a lot of heart and because it was a quest film had a somewhat mythic quality. The second film had its funny sequences.

NPH on shrooms, Bush saying "cock meat sandwich, ahs maw favorite."

But, the narrative moments didn't feel the same, maybe it was the obtrusive score that put me off.

[Stay Puft]

But, the narrative moments didn't feel the same

No, I agree. The narrative impetus isn't as creative or interesting in the sequel. Much more conventional friendship/romance teen-comedy fare, although it still continues in a similar thematic vein with the racial profiling.

But if you weren't laughing, I don't know what to say. I laughed a lot. I think it was number8 who made a comment about the first, that a lot of the jokes are predictable or too broad or not that good, but the cast makes it work. That's exactly how I felt about the sequel. I still enjoyed it.

[Qrazy]

Top Ten Unclassics

http://entertainment.msn.com/movies/moviesfeature/dvd/not-classic-movies?GT1=7701

I've only seen six but the list seems relatively solid.

Completely agree with:

Gone with the Wind
Guess Who's Coming to Dinner

Mildly Agree with:

Easy Rider

After seeing a bunch of Bruce Conner and Jodorowsky, the films form doesn't seem nearly as interesting (it borrows a lot from both) and as an ode to a particular era the film is what it is, but aside from a time capsule film it feels kind of disposable.

Been to long since I've watched (but I remember being somewhat underwhelmed by both more so the latter):

Giant
Ten Commandments

[Qrazy]

I strongly disagree. The first film actually had a lot of heart and because it was a quest film had a somewhat mythic quality. The second film had its funny sequences.

NPH on shrooms, Bush saying "cock meat sandwich, ahs maw favorite."

But, the narrative moments didn't feel the same, maybe it was the obtrusive score that put me off.

I'd rate Marnie a bit higher than you did, but yeah I don't understand the love that film gets around here.

[DrewG]

Today I watched one of the best silents I think I've ever seen.

It was Yonggang Wu's 1934 film The Goddess and it was a really heartwarming but truly devastating experience. It's weird to go from watching Metropolis and see its commentary on modernization to this, where a mother is forced into prostitution in the city of Shanghai in order to feed her baby son. I don't even really know how to talk about it yet but...if you have the means, I really do truly recommend this film. So perfectly paced, perfectly acted (especially when it could have easily been overacted) and great use of the camera from the insides of the cramped home to the neon lights of the city.

Here is the link for it at KARAGARGA: http://karagarga.net/details.php?id=6772

[Sven]

Gone with the Wind is one of the most unspectacular movies ever. Its placement is just.

Giant, Gentleman's Agreement, and Guess Who's Coming To Dinner? are all superb. My feeling is that perhaps blunt didacticism is less appreciated, if not looked on with stern suspicion, by today's youthful moviehouse contingents. The writer of this list seems to confirm my hypothesis. I find that the more-or-less blanket rejection of overt message films to be near-appalling (almost as much as my befuddlement at the suggestions that some people reject musicals). Guess Who's Coming To Dinner is a fine example of a film dealing with liberal duplicity and the struggles of ideology in practical application (not to mention the amusing repartee of Spencer and Tracy). Giant is a solid epic that, while not as dynamic as, say, DeMille, still manages to create a time, place, and ethos. Gentleman's Agreement works as an uninhibited classic drama, tugging at the audience's impressions of a bigoted society and pleading for change. It's the cinematic equivalent of a rousing political speech delivered briskly by a charismatic politician. I can't imagine being bored by it.

I don't think that The Seven Year Itch is considered classic by anyone (beyond the iconic whats-it), but I think it's a fine picture.

I also like Easy Rider and Arsenic and Old Lace. I don't know what this dude's problem is.

And Marnie is a splendid entertainment that falls apart when considering its model of psychoses as mystery. I don't really buy Hitch's sometimes pop psychology, where characters' mental problems can be packaged up and solved in a jiff. See also Spellbound. Still, Marnie's got some exquisite filmmaking action going on. Love that horse scene. One of his best.

[Qrazy]

Gone with the Wind is one of the most unspectacular movies ever. Its placement is just.

Giant, Gentleman's Agreement, and Guess Who's Coming To Dinner? are all superb. My feeling is that perhaps blunt didacticism is less appreciated, if not looked on with stern suspicion, by today's youthful moviehouse contingents. The writer of this list seems to confirm my hypothesis. I find that the more-or-less blanket rejection of overt message films to be near-appalling (almost as much as my befuddlement at the suggestions that some people reject musicals). Guess Who's Coming To Dinner is a fine example of a film dealing with liberal duplicity and the struggles of ideology in practical application (not to mention the amusing repartee of Spencer and Tracy). Giant is a solid epic that, while not as dynamic as, say, DeMille, still manages to create a time, place, and ethos. Gentleman's Agreement works as an uninhibited classic drama, tugging at the audience's impressions of a bigoted society and pleading for change. It's the cinematic equivalent of a rousing political speech delivered briskly by a charismatic politician. I can't imagine being bored by it.

I don't think that The Seven Year Itch is considered classic by anyone (beyond the iconic whats-it), but I think it's a fine picture.


I dunno I think SYI is a fairly well reputed classic but yeah I forgot to mention it in my original post. It's OK, formally sound but second tier Wilder and I pretty much agree with all of the critic's criticisms except Wilder is a strong enough filmmaker to still make things work marginally well... same thing with Spirit of St. Louis. The Seven Year Itch is to Wilder as North by Northwest is to Hitchcock in my mind... formally precise, well executed pictures, but there's just not that much too them other than their craft.

I've been moving through Kazan's filmography so yeah I have a feeling I'd love Gentleman's Agreement. I think he's a great filmmaker.

Going to have to strongly disagree with your support of Guess Who's Coming to Dinner. I don't care if it's didactic if the filmmaking is strong but to me the film feels like the Hollywood oscar bait of yesteryear. Everything about the picture feels dry and safe to me. Hell other racially minded films like Pinky (kazan) and The Young One (Bunuel) have twice the bite and came decades earlier.

[Sven]

Hell other racially minded films like Pinky (kazan) and The Young One (Bunuel) have twice the bite and came decades earlier.

I can't speak for either of those films, as I've only read about them, but it seems like they're attempting something completely different. It's alright not to like the film for its "Oscar-baiting" (a vague term that I only kind of understand, and may push you to qualify in terms of the 60s, or even now), but what I don't like - and what seems like the norm - is to hear it criticized for its political discourse. It seems like people now are unwilling to accept overt political content in their entertainments. The success of Crash makes me question that, but as a blanket trend, I think it may stand.

But anyway, I don't see how a film with such entertaining rapport between Spencer and Tracy could be considered "dry", and Kramer is a pretty accomplished formalist, pretty good at constructing rhythm through meaningful juxtaposition, as well as consistently eliciting good performances.

[Sycophant]

Of the three of those unclassics I've seen, the two epics are films I can't remember clearly enough to come anywhere near an opinion on. Arsenic and Old Lace I love with the better part of my heart.

[Rowland]

I don't care much for Easy Rider, so I have no problem with its inclusion.

[Sven]

I don't care much for Easy Rider, so I have no problem with its inclusion.

I didn't either, the first time I saw it. Years later, I saw it again and found much to admire.

[Sven]

I was just invited to lunch with Paul Mazursky on Thursday. Eep. Nervous.

[MadMan]

I think that Easy Rider is a great film. A masterpiece, no, but still really awesome, and an extremely significant film in many ways. Important? No? Sort of a lucky accident/lightening in a bottle? Yeah, kind of.


4. "The Ten Commandments" (1956)
Cecil B. DeMille spared no expense with this remake of his 1923 take on the Old Testament, adding in even more spectacular set pieces and state-of-the-art special effects (part that Red Sea, Moses!). Once the movie was restored and rereleased in 1989, the notion that DeMille's final movie belonged in the pantheon might as well have been written in stone. But the combination of pulpy performances and all-consuming pretentiousness is hard to take seriously, especially when you've got Edward G. Robinson in brown-face screaming, "Where's your messiah neee-yeow?" The late, great Charlton Heston was certainly a better actor than many people credit him for, except his Moses never rises above a caricature of lock-jawed, leading-man beefcake. Perhaps an 11th commandment is in order: Thou shalt not dub Velveeta of biblical proportions a work of genius.The guy who wrote this can go screw himself. This movie has some pretentiousness? What the hell? The performances in the film are actually one of its strong points. The FX holds extremely well decades later. The film isn't a work of genius but it is a great film. This guy should be lucky that he doesn't get the Ten Plagues of Egypt for writing something so stupid.

I haven't seen the rest of the films on that list besides those two. I have a feeling I would enjoy some of them and dislike some of them.

[Qrazy]

I can't speak for either of those films, as I've only read about them, but it seems like they're attempting something completely different. It's alright not to like the film for its "Oscar-baiting" (a vague term that I only kind of understand, and may push you to qualify in terms of the 60s, or even now), but what I don't like - and what seems like the norm - is to hear it criticized for its political discourse. It seems like people now are unwilling to accept overt political content in their entertainments. The success of Crash makes me question that, but as a blanket trend, I think it may stand.

But anyway, I don't see how a film with such entertaining rapport between Spencer and Tracy could be considered "dry", and Kramer is a pretty accomplished formalist, pretty good at constructing rhythm through meaningful juxtaposition, as well as consistently eliciting good performances.

Oscar baity to me means something that takes no risks either in it's content or formal execution. Everything is played by the books to win awards... on the one hand you have political message films on the other hand you have mentally ill individual over coming all odds films... they take inherently emotionally potent material and milk it to ring emotions out of the audience... Guess Who is not a particularly bad offender in this regard but it's still a fairly by the books film.

Again, the reason people like myself don't respect films like this or Crash is not
because they're political or didactic but because we/I feel their execution is limp-wristed and pandering. There's nothing wrong with the central script conceit in and of itself. It's the execution which is dry and blatant.

Personally I didn't experience entertaining rapport I experienced bland rib nudging (a fault of the script and the direction much more so than the acting). Come to think of it overall I've had similar problems with most of Kramer's dramatic direction (fewer issues with visual direction). The drama always feels slightly off to me... in a Mad, mad, mad it was too hokey, in Judgment and Inherit the Wind it's too... something I'm not sure what the quality is exactly that puts me off (and I don't mean completely, I like all of these films to varying degrees, I guess even Guess Who (although least of the four I've seen) but they just lack a certain dramatic heft, a pathos). His characters always feel like characters, not like people to me... and not in an interesting drawing attention to artifice way (Suzuki, Godard) or a larger than life way (Fassbinder, Sirk), but just in a forgettable, not quite up to snuff way...

I feel similar about John Sturges dramatic direction (less The Great Escape although somewhat than Bad Day at Black Rock and The Magnificent Seven). I find that both directors take a very dry approach to drama.

[Qrazy]

I didn't either, the first time I saw it. Years later, I saw it again and found much to admire.

I was the other way around liked it more the first time and less the second.

[Qrazy]

I think that Easy Rider is a great film. A masterpiece, no, but still really awesome, and an extremely significant film in many ways. Important? No? Sort of a lucky accident/lightening in a bottle? Yeah, kind of.

The guy who wrote this can go screw himself. This movie has some pretentiousness? What the hell? The performances in the film are actually one of its strong points. The FX holds extremely well decades later. The film isn't a work of genius but it is a great film. This guy should be lucky that he doesn't get the Ten Plagues of Egypt for writing something so stupid.

I haven't seen the rest of the films on that list besides those two. I have a feeling I would enjoy some of them and dislike some of them.

I think he meant that he feels the film takes itself too seriously, pretentious probably wasn't quite the right word.

[Sven]

I feel similar about John Sturges dramatic direction (less The Great Escape although somewhat than Bad Day at Black Rock and The Magnificent Seven).

We can unite in this opinion. Never liked Sturges.

[Winston*]

This was a pointless post. Why would I bother posting it? I'm wasting everyone's time.

[balmakboor]

Top Ten Unclassics

http://entertainment.msn.com/movies/moviesfeature/dvd/not-classic-movies?GT1=7701

I've only seen six but the list seems relatively solid.

Completely agree with:

Gone with the Wind
Guess Who's Coming to Dinner

Mildly Agree with:

Easy Rider

After seeing a bunch of Bruce Conner and Jodorowsky, the films form doesn't seem nearly as interesting (it borrows a lot from both) and as an ode to a particular era the film is what it is, but aside from a time capsule film it feels kind of disposable.

Been to long since I've watched (but I remember being somewhat underwhelmed by both more so the latter):

Giant
Ten Commandments

I've never seen The Seven Year Itch and like Giant a fair amount, but I certainly agree about the other eight. I found Gentleman's Agreement, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, and Easy Rider especially unwatchable when I revisited them over the past couple years.

[MadMan]

I think he meant that he feels the film takes itself too seriously, pretentious probably wasn't quite the right word.Okay, I guess I can sort of buy that the film does take itself seriously. But come on man its a film epic. Those usually take themselves seriously, at times too much. To me that is a staple of that subgenre.

I haven't seen The Great Escape yet, but when it comes to Sturges he has a mixed track record so far for me. He seems like a capable macho action drama director, nothing more, nothing less.

[Qrazy]

Seems like a fine use of the word pretentious to me.

Alright, I haven't seen the film since I was a kid so can't really comment... I think 'pretentious' tends to be more often applied in the cases of strained arthouse ventures which don't really work though... like Resnais or Antonioni's worst films... where the intellectual goal far exceeds the grasp of the specific film... rather than something like Commandments where the exceeding grasp tends to lead to ponderousness and banality and boredom rather than pretentiousness.

I mean it certainly could be applied as he applied it I just think ponderous, strained or boring would have been more to the point as far as what he was (I think) trying to communicate.

[balmakboor]

Wow. I read some of the comments to the Unclassic column and people are calling the guy out as being unsuited to be a film critic because he doesn't love Gone With the Wind but considers The Wizard of Oz a classic. Stupid people.

[Qrazy]

Okay, I guess I can sort of buy that the film does take itself seriously. But come on man its a film epic. Those usually take themselves seriously, at times too much. To me that is a staple of that subgenre.

I haven't seen The Great Escape yet, but when it comes to Sturges he has a mixed track record so far for me. He seems like a capable macho action drama director, nothing more, nothing less.

The Great Escape is by far the best thing I've seen from him. I liked it. You'd probably like it I think.

[MadMan]

The Great Escape is by far the best thing I've seen from him. I liked it. You'd probably like it I think.I actually saw some of it on TCM one time and while I didn't have time to finish the film, I liked what I saw. I own it on DVD, its just a matter of making time to watch it.


Wow. I read some of the comments to the Unclassic column and people are calling the guy out as being unsuited to be a film critic because he doesn't love Gone With the Wind but considers The Wizard of Oz a classic. Stupid people.I have a feeling I won't like GOWTW, and I don't know if I'll ever make time for what is basically a love driven epic (just like James Cameron's Titanic). But I don't see how that means he's unsuited to be a film critic. Sure I disagree with him on "Commandments," but I don't think that makes him bad at what he does, even if the write up he did for it seemed to misuse the word "pretentious" which gets thrown around way too much.

[balmakboor]

I have a feeling I won't like GOWTW, and I don't know if I'll ever make time for what is basically a love driven epic (just like James Cameron's Titanic). But I don't see how that means he's unsuited to be a film critic. Sure I disagree with him on "Commandments," but I don't think that makes him bad at what he does, even if the write up he did for it seemed to misuse the word "pretentious" which gets thrown around way too much.

I just want to make sure you know that I'm not talking about comments made here at Match-Cut. I'm talking about the 31 pages of comments here:

http://boards.msn.com/Moviesboards/thread.aspx?threadid=637274

[Winston*]

Wow the white movies are consider classic to the white reporter and people.

Well Henson it just so happens that white movies are classics compared to "How High" and "Soulplane". And maybe some people could come up with their own movies instead of destroying classics like "The Wizard of Oz" and turning it into the piece of garbage The Wiz.
Yeah!

[balmakboor]

Yeah!

:crazy: Yes, I shook my head at those as well. And it is sad how many more are just as stupid.

[balmakboor]

I should tell suthernbeauty that The Wiz was directed by Lumet. You know, a white man.

[MadMan]

Yeah!Wow. Just wow.


I just want to make sure you know that I'm not talking about comments made here at Match-Cut. I'm talking about the 31 pages of comments here:

http://boards.msn.com/Moviesboards/thread.aspx?threadid=637274I know. I'm not sure why you mentioned that though.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Okay, the unclassics...

Love Story, I haven't seen. I didn't know it was considered a classic. I thought it was universally thought to be a grand joke. I guess I was wrong.

Arsenic and Old Lace is decent, I know a lot of people hate it here, but I think it's okay. I'll agree with the inclusion because it's just so average and ocasionally annoying.

I don't feel write saying anything about All the King's Men because I didn't watch it really. I was bored out of my mind so played on the computer while "watching" it. So, I'll refrain from judging.

Never saw, or care to see Guess...

I turned off Gentlemen's Agreement 15 minutes in, I'm surprised I lasted so long. Terribly dated, and young Peck annoys me for some really unknown reason.

I enjoy the Seven Year Itch, it's nothing particularly special though. There are a few choice moments that make it worthwhile, but overall it's pretty uninteresting.

I have never seen The Ten Commandments in it's entirety. What I have seen though, is very funny.

Haven't seen Easy Rider.

I could never finish Giant, boring.

I do love Gone with the Wind though, I actually outright adore it. I watch it often, I don't think it lags, and I find Scarlett O'Hara an entirely fascinating character. It's far from perfect, but I don't think there is a dull moment in it.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Wow, I'm terribly sorry about that theatre experience, Philosophe.

That's just unacceptable. I would have told those guys off...and I would have done it in French for the added sting.
I should have, probably if I was angry-miserable I would have, I was sad-miserable.


Glad you at least enjoyed Pierrot - it's my favorite Godard. He has a great sense of humor and I'm always amazed when that element of his work is largely overlooked.

I feel your pain regarding assholes. I walked to 7-11 (a mini-mart) this morning soon after showering and the girl working the DARE stand, asking for friggin' donations no less, literally started giving me shit about my hair being a little wet. She said I should've put a hat on or something. After nodding and basically ignoring her on my way in, she proceeded to ask me for a donation on my way out and continued giving me shit after I looked at her and dropped my change into my pocket. Let the kids have their drugs.
THat's an incredibly weird story. She was upset you had wet hair? Just wow.

[balmakboor]

I know. I'm not sure why you mentioned that though.

I just thought your comment sounded a bit defensive and it made me worry that you thought I was calling people around here "stupid." I think Hensen and suthernbeauty make it clear who I was actually referring to.

[soitgoes...]

Today I watched one of the best silents I think I've ever seen.

It was Yonggang Wu's 1934 film The Goddess and it was a really heartwarming but truly devastating experience. It's weird to go from watching Metropolis and see its commentary on modernization to this, where a mother is forced into prostitution in the city of Shanghai in order to feed her baby son. I don't even really know how to talk about it yet but...if you have the means, I really do truly recommend this film. So perfectly paced, perfectly acted (especially when it could have easily been overacted) and great use of the camera from the insides of the cramped home to the neon lights of the city.

Here is the link for it at KARAGARGA: http://karagarga.net/details.php?id=6772
Yeah, I really want to see this. I've almost downloaded it, but then I noticed that TCM was going to have it in a month or so. I'll just wait till then I suppose, as I have a shitload of stuff that I've already downloaded to watch yet.

[balmakboor]

Okay, the unclassics...

I do love Gone with the Wind though, I actually outright adore it. I watch it often, I don't think it lags, and I find Scarlett O'Hara an entirely fascinating character. It's far from perfect, but I don't think there is a dull moment in it.

I would never go out of my way to bash GWTW. It is ok. I just don't think it stands up very well beside other films from 1939. I don't think it should have topped the list and its being there was really just blatant provocation.

I like Gentleman's Agreement the least of the films on the list, but I don't think it is generally considered "classic" enough to belong, maybe I'm wrong. I would've topped the list with Easy Rider.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I would never go out of my way to bash GWTW. It is ok. I just don't think it stands up very well beside other films from 1939. I don't think it should have topped the list and its being there was really just blatant provocation.

I like Gentleman's Agreement the least of the films on the list, but I don't think it is generally considered "classic" enough to belong, maybe I'm wrong. I would've topped the list with Easy Rider.
It's not my favourite of 1939, and barely makes my top 5 so I'll agree with you on that.

A lot of the films on the list I'd be hard pressed to consider "classics". Aside from winning best picture, would Gentlemen's Agreement be remembered at all? Let alone considered a "classic"? I'm guessing not.

[Qrazy]

It's not my favourite of 1939, and barely makes my top 5 so I'll agree with you on that.

A lot of the films on the list I'd be hard pressed to consider "classics". Aside from winning best picture, would Gentlemen's Agreement be remembered at all? Let alone considered a "classic"? I'm guessing not.

All about the circles you run in I suppose... someone must have been touting it in his circle.

[Boner M]

'Bout time someone took Love Story out of the canon! Crappy article.

[balmakboor]

It's not my favourite of 1939, and barely makes my top 5 so I'll agree with you on that.

A lot of the films on the list I'd be hard pressed to consider "classics". Aside from winning best picture, would Gentlemen's Agreement be remembered at all? Let alone considered a "classic"? I'm guessing not.

One of my coworkers a few years ago knew I was a film nut and proudly told me that he'd just completed a personal goal of watching every single Best Picture Oscar winner. He was kinda taken aback when I couldn't help but give him a "why'd you do that?" reaction.

[balmakboor]

And speaking of that Unclassics list. I find far more to disagree with about Schrader's canon:

http://www.cinematical.com/2006/11/14/paul-schraders-film-canon/

I really haven't been impressed by Schrader's film criticism. I've read his Canon Fodder article and his book on Ozu, Bresson, Dreyer. I should read his Film Noir essay -- it's in one of my books -- but I'm not in a big hurry. Strange thing because I love his Taxi Driver script.

[Qrazy]

'Bout time someone took Love Story out of the canon! Crappy article.

Heh you read it, sucker. Muaha

---

On another note how does everyone feel about swooping super zoom/out shots? I find them to be primarily unnecessary, indulgent and so rarely used effectively... whether it's a fantasy film swoop out to the entire world (Stardust) or an epic swooping shot across a battlefield (Troy)... it's not the super long shot that bothers me, I kind of love extreme long shots actually, but it's all the twists and turns of the camera, the speeding up of time for the shot and such poor aesthetic stability... all that swooping makes the shot itself feel really unbalanced and asymmetrical. Some filmmakers have used them marginally well... like Jackson and Jeunet... but even they can fall prey to the needless indulgence (A Very Long Engagement zeppelin/bomb sequence, King Kong shot of the pole vaulting native)... Spielberg is another who can use the shots fairly well.

But even when they're used effectively I still I dunno... most of the time just Blegh.

[MadMan]

I just thought your comment sounded a bit defensive and it made me worry that you thought I was calling people around here "stupid." I think Hensen and suthernbeauty make it clear who I was actually referring to.Oh. No I was refering to the people on that board that you were talking about. The people of Match-Cut are pretty damn awesome. I'm constantly amazed that I'm actually allowed to post here.

Tonight TCM is screening big screen war epics. I find it amusing that they're showing two films featuring British imperialism in Khartoum and Zulu, followed by Glory. If I didn't have to wake up for class tomorrow I'd check out Glory. Criticker actually told me I'd really like Zulu, but I'll give it a try maybe some other time.

[Sven]

I normally don't like them if I can tell (most of the time I can) that they are computerized (most of the time they are). It far too often feels like a video game when I can tell that everything is digital and that what we're watching is merely a monitor window sweeping across an entirely phony landscape.

But maybe I don't know what you're talking about. Do you have any other specific examples, or clarify the kind of shot you mean? I don't remember King Kong well enough to remember the pole vaulting, nor have I seen Stardust, Troy, or the Jeunet film.

[Mysterious Dude]

On another note how does everyone feel about swooping super zoom/out shots? I find them to be primarily unnecessary, indulgent and so rarely used effectively... whether it's a fantasy film swoop out to the entire world (Stardust) or an epic swooping shot across a battlefield (Troy)... it's not the super long shot that bothers me, I kind of love extreme long shots actually, but it's all the twists and turns of the camera, the speeding up of time for the shot and such poor aesthetic stability... all that swooping makes the shot itself feel really unbalanced and asymmetrical. Some filmmakers have used them marginally well... like Jackson and Jeunet... but even they can fall prey to the needless indulgence (A Very Long Engagement zeppelin/bomb sequence, King Kong shot of the pole vaulting native)... Spielberg is another who can use the shots fairly well.

But even when they're used effectively I still I dunno... most of the time just Blegh.I can't think of one that didn't look incredibly fake to me.

[Qrazy]

And speaking of that Unclassics list. I find far more to disagree with about Schrader's canon:

http://www.cinematical.com/2006/11/14/paul-schraders-film-canon/

I really haven't been impressed by Schrader's film criticism. I've read his Canon Fodder article and his book on Ozu, Bresson, Dreyer. I should read his Film Noir essay -- it's in one of my books -- but I'm not in a big hurry. Strange thing because I love his Taxi Driver script.

What do you disagree with, that there's not enough breadth to it and the ordering/grouping of the films? His choices seem fairly by the books (of other canons) to me.

Just operating with the titles in his canon here's how I'd bump things around (with a few replacements of better films by the same director... films they're replacing are still good but might as well have the director's (imo) strongest film in the canon).

Gold

1. The Rules of the Game (1939, Jean Renoir) - Stay
2. Tokyo Story (1953, Yasujiro Ozu) - Stay or Floating Weeds
3. City Lights (1931, Charles Chaplin) - Stay
4. Pickpocket (1959, Robert Bresson) - Replace with Au Hasard Balthazar
5. Metropolis (1927, Fritz Lang) - Stay, maybe down to silver (M deserves a place too)
6. Citizen Kane (1941, Orson Welles) - Stay
7. Orphée (1950, Jean Cocteau) - Down to silver or bronze
8. Masculin-Feminin (1966, Jean-Luc Godard) - Haven't seen but I'm guessing I'd replace with another Godard.
9. Persona (1966, Ingmar Bergman) - Never really been as huge on this one as others are, would prob. replace with 5-6 other Bergman's which I prefer.
10. Vertigo (1958, Alfred Hitchcock) - Stay
11. Sunrise (1927, F.W. Murnau) - Maybe down to silver
12. The Searchers (1956, John Ford) - Down to silver... I suppose it is the quintessential John Ford entry.
13. The Lady Eve (1941, Preston Sturges) - Down to silver maybe replace with Sullivan's Travels.
14. The Conformist (1970, Bernardo Bertolucci) - Stay, maybe down to silver
15. 8 ½ (1963, Federico Fellini) - Replace with La Dolce Vita but no complaints really.
16. The Godfather (1972, Francis Ford Coppola) - Stay
17. In the Mood for Love (2000, Wong Kar-wai) - Maybe replace with Happy Together
18. The Third Man (1949, Carol Reed) - Down to silver.
19. Performance (1970, Donald Cammell/Nicholas Roeg) - Haven't seen but based on other Roeg's I've seen I'd prob. bump it off the canon completely.
20. La Notte (1961, Michelangelo Antonioni) - Any of the trilogy could be here I don't care.

Silver

21. Mother and Son (1997, Alexander Sokurov) - Bump down
22. The Leopard (1963, Luchino Visconti) - Haven't seen
23. The Dead (1987, John Huston) - Bump off, Huston's done a lot better... replace with Treasure of the Sierra Madre or Maltese Falcon.
24. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968, Stanley Kubrick) - Up to gold.
25. Last Year at Marienbad (1961, Alain Resnais) - Prefer Hiroshima Mon Amour.
26. The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928, Carl Theodor Dreyer) - Up to gold.
27. Jules and Jim (1961, Francois Truffaut) - Stay
28. The Wild Bunch (1969, Sam Peckinpah) - Stay
29. All That Jazz (1979, Bob Fosse) - Haven't seen
30. The Life of Oharu (1952, Kenji Mizoguchi) - Prefer Ugetsu and Sansho
31. High and Low (1963, Akira Kurosawa) - Throne of Blood, Ran, and others are all more deserving and should be in gold.
32. Sweet Smell of Success (1957, Alexander Mackendrick) - Stay
33. That Obscure Object of Desire (1977, Luis Bunuel) - I think Discreet Charm and Phantom are both stronger of his late period... Obscure is slightly stronger than Milky Way... both pale in comparison to Viridiana and Exterminating Angel.
34. An American in Paris (1951, Vincente Minnelli) - Singin in the Rain is prob. more deserving, switch 'em.
35. The Battle of Algiers (1966, Gillo Pontecorvo) - Stay
36. Taxi Driver (1976, Martin Scorsese) - Raging Bull then Goodfellas, and then Taxi Driver.
37. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul (1974, Rainer Werner Fassbinder) - Prob. stay like Godard Fassbinder has a number of interchangeable excellent films.
38. Blue Velvet (1986, David Lynch) - Sure... Eraserhead and Elephant Man could be substituted but Blue Velvet is probably a good compromise between crazy and regular Lynch.
39. Crimes and Misdemeanors (1989, Woody Allen) - Manhattan and Annie Hall are the more deserving I think but then Crimes.
40. The Big Lebowski (1998, Joel Coen) - Ehh... just go with Fargo and down to bronze.

Bronze

41. The Red Shoes (1948, Michael Powell/Emeric Pressburger) - Up to silver.
42. Singin' in the Rain (1952, Stanley Donen) - Switch
43. Chinatown (1974, Roman Polanski) - Up to silver.
44. The Crowd (1928, King Vidor) - Haven't seen
45. Sunset Boulevard (1950, Billy Wilder) - Up to silver
46. Talk to Her (2002, Pedro Almodovar) - Haven't seen
47. Shanghai Express (1932, Josef von Sternberg) - Haven't seen
48. Letter from an Unknown Woman (1948, Max Ophuls) - Stay.
49. Once Upon a Time in the West (1969, Sergio Leone) - Prefer GBU, up to silver
50. Salvatore Giuliano (1962, Francesco Rosi) - Haven't seen
51. Nostalghia (1983, Andrei Tarkovsky) - Stalker, Andrei Rublev are more deserving and up to platinum.
52. Seven Men from Now (1956, Budd Boetticher) - Haven't seen
53. Claire's Knee (1970, Eric Rohmer) - Haven't seen
54. Earth (1930, Alexander Dovzhenko) - Stay
55. Gun Crazy (1949, Joseph H. Lewis) - Off list
56. Out of the Past (1947, Jacques Tourneur) - Stay or off list.
57. Children of Paradise (1945, Marcel Carne) - Stay maybe up.
58. The Naked Spur (1953, Anthony Mann) - Haven't seen
59. A Place in the Sun (1951, George Stevens) - Haven't seen
60. The General (1927, Buster Keaton) - Sherlock, Steamboat stay or up a bit.

[Qrazy]

Oh. No I was refering to the people on that board that you were talking about. The people of Match-Cut are pretty damn awesome. I'm constantly amazed that I'm actually allowed to post here.

Tonight TCM is screening big screen war epics. I find it amusing that they're showing two films featuring British imperialism in Khartoum and Zulu, followed by Glory. If I didn't have to wake up for class tomorrow I'd check out Glory. Criticker actually told me I'd really like Zulu, but I'll give it a try maybe some other time.

Yeah I think you'd like Zulu... I still haven't seen Glory, haven't been in a hurry after Last Samurai and part of Blood Diamond... but I'll look into it and remain confident it's probably his best (despite having not seen it).

[Qrazy]

I normally don't like them if I can tell (most of the time I can) that they are computerized (most of the time they are). It far too often feels like a video game when I can tell that everything is digital and that what we're watching is merely a monitor window sweeping across an entirely phony landscape.

But maybe I don't know what you're talking about. Do you have any other specific examples, or clarify the kind of shot you mean? I don't remember King Kong well enough to remember the pole vaulting, nor have I seen Stardust, Troy, or the Jeunet film.

Yeah I think it's mostly a computerized fakeness/issue but also I think a lot is just shot composition/mise en scene... not just how the shot is framed but it's bobblyness and all over the placeness.

I don't mind the shots nearly as much when they're shots of reality... Gone with the Wind dead people crane shot, etc but I think it's also because they're also usually a lot less bobbly as well... snaking around and shite... I don't understand why contemporary flimmakers can't just CGI a long shot without going overboard into aesthetic crapland.

[Mysterious Dude]

I was really interested in computer animation when I was a kid. But somehow, I feel it's all gone downhill since Toy Story came out.

[MadMan]

Yeah I think you'd like Zulu... I still haven't seen Glory, haven't been in a hurry after Last Samurai and part of Blood Diamond... but I'll look into it and remain confident it's probably his best (despite having not seen it).Well it is true I'm into epics and macho male driven cinema. In fact I've been thinking a lot about directors who could be classifed as having made "Conservative/macho/male oriented films" and even making a thread about it. But I won't because I'm not big on making threads. I also do want to get to The Last Samurai (even though it appears to be Dancing With Wolves only with Tom Cruise and set in Japan, complete with samurai instead of Indians) and also Blood Diamond due to being a Leo fan at this point.

[Qrazy]

I normally don't like them if I can tell (most of the time I can) that they are computerized (most of the time they are). It far too often feels like a video game when I can tell that everything is digital and that what we're watching is merely a monitor window sweeping across an entirely phony landscape.

But maybe I don't know what you're talking about. Do you have any other specific examples, or clarify the kind of shot you mean? I don't remember King Kong well enough to remember the pole vaulting, nor have I seen Stardust, Troy, or the Jeunet film.

Burton also sometimes employs these kinds of all over the place sweeping tracking shot shots.

I wish all these guys would watch some Jansco, Tarr, Kubrick, etc and execute their crane/tracking shots more efficiently.

[Qrazy]

Well it is true I'm into epics and macho male driven cinema. In fact I've been thinking a lot about directors who could be classifed as having made "Conservative/macho/male oriented films" and even making a thread about it. But I won't because I'm not big on making threads. I also do want to get to The Last Samurai (even though it appears to be Dancing With Wolves only with Tom Cruise and set in Japan, complete with samurai instead of Indians) and also Blood Diamond due to being a Leo fan at this point.

In case it wasn't clear from my post I think Last Samurai is total dogshit and what I saw of Blood Diamond didn't impress me either.

[Qrazy]

I was really interested in computer animation when I was a kid. But somehow, I feel it's all gone downhill since Toy Story came out.

Well it's certainly being overly and improperly used in many Hollywood live action films but I dunno I think it's come a long way... particularly in terms of texturing and shading... whether or not Toy Story is still Pixar's strongest... Finding Nemo and Ratatouille have much, much more visual detail work.

[Qrazy]

fyi what prompted my comments was I started watching Stardust and was immediately annoyed by the overuse of broomsweepy shots.

Some others that use them a lot... the Harry Potter series, Narnia, pretty much all new fantasy films... and lots of new epics.

[MadMan]

In case it wasn't clear from my post I think Last Samurai is total dogshit and what I saw of Blood Diamond didn't impress me either.Heh, fair enough.

When it comes to FX I miss the old ways of doing it. Some of those older FX impress me as much as current CGI does now. But in the end a good film with a good story, acting, directing, and the whole package is all that matters. My friend says that Star Wars and Jaws were the biggest detriments to cinema because they showed that you could make a movie with FX and ignore the story. I think I should finally counter with "Dude they were doing that sort of thing before those two films" but I think he does have a point. As much as I love those two films both of them sort of ushered in the current age we have now, where subistance too often gets overruled by style. I'm guilty in liking some of those films, so I suppose I'm part of the problem.

[Sven]

I don't understand why contemporary flimmakers can't just CGI a long shot without going overboard into aesthetic crapland.

Excellent observation, one that I've said in different words many times. Alas, we do differ some in that I think that Jackson is quite guilty of crap aesthetics when getting CG happy (and given the nature of his earlier stuff, it seems he often wishes to embrace poor aesthetics, although Forgotten Silver is quality stuff). Funny you mention Burton, because most of the time I think he manages the movement while adhering to a sort of diorama model, maintaining the structural geography as well as visual unity. Not so much in his later stuff, when he abandoned models, but I still mostly appreciate his style (although there were moments of too-slickness in Sweeney Todd that I regretted).

I will say, now knowing what you're talking about, that the Harry Potter films are replete with these, never more damaging than in the fourth film, where we get one in nearly every scene (I'm counting here those wide panoramic shots that illustratively map out the location of the following scene). Gah, that series is annoying.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I really like Schrader's canon, and the article that goes with it. I own the issue of Film Comment and have read it several times over. I wonder what would go on my canon. I don't think I've seen enough to form one right now, and I would hate to try and be objective. I find it difficult to make a canonical list interesting.

[Mysterious Dude]

Well it's certainly being overly and improperly used in many Hollywood live action films but I dunno I think it's come a long way... particularly in terms of texturing and shading... whether or not Toy Story is still Pixar's strongest... Finding Nemo and Ratatouille have much, much more visual detail work.
I'm just saying... I miss these days (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7NqvCYybc).

[Qrazy]

Excellent observation, one that I've said in different words many times. Alas, we do differ some in that I think that Jackson is quite guilty of crap aesthetics when getting CG happy (and given the nature of his earlier stuff, it seems he often wishes to embrace poor aesthetics, although Forgotten Silver is quality stuff). Funny you mention Burton, because most of the time I think he manages the movement while adhering to a sort of diorama model, maintaining the structural geography as well as visual unity. Not so much in his later stuff, when he abandoned models, but I still mostly appreciate his style (although there were moments of too-slickness in Sweeney Todd that I regretted).


Yeah I was mostly think of Sweeney Todd when I made the comparison... although Big Fish does it sometimes too... haven't seen Willie Wonka but judging by the trailer I'm guessing it does as well.

I still need to see Forgotten Silver to complete Jackson's filmography, looking forward to it.

[Qrazy]

I'm just saying... I miss these days (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7NqvCYybc).

Haha yes... god damn that goes on for a while.

[Qrazy]

I really like Schrader's canon, and the article that goes with it. I own the issue of Film Comment and have read it several times over. I wonder what would go on my canon. I don't think I've seen enough to form one right now, and I would hate to try and be objective. I find it difficult to make a canonical list interesting.

After I finish criterion and 1001 films to see before you die (hopefully by the end of the summer although that's really pushing it) I'll make a top films list and that'll be canon enough for me... relegating the films I enjoy but don't think have much formal/tonal brilliance to a list of honorable mentions... the thing about trying to be too objective is I find it tends to have a negative effect on building a canon... personalized, diverse canons (i.e. being able to choose from TSPDT or 1001 films to see versus both lists being identical) are essential. We don't all just want to adopt the sight and sound top 100 consensus list ya know? Consensuses are important but maintaining a certain degree of individual taste is just as important. Of course we hope things don't bounce too far into the subjective realm and the canon makers don't feel Russ Meyer is the crowning jewel of cinematic achievement.

[Philosophe_rouge]

After I finish criterion and 1001 films to see before you die (hopefully by the end of the summer although that's really pushing it) I'll make a top films list and that'll be canon enough for me... relegating the films I enjoy but don't think have much formal/tonal brilliance to a list of honorable mentions... the thing about trying to be too objective is I find it tends to have a negative effect on building a canon... personalized, diverse canons (i.e. being able to choose from TSPDT or 1001 films to see versus both lists being identical) are essential. We don't all just want to adopt the sight and sound top 100 consensus list ya know? Consensuses are important but maintaining a certain degree of individual taste is just as important. Of course we hope things don't bounce too far into the subjective realm and the canon makers don't feel Russ Meyer is the crowning jewel of cinematic achievement.
I agree completely, and am REALLY looking forward to your list whenever it may come. Russ Meyer makes great films though, even his cheap stuff. Except Ultra Vixens, although it still has it's moments.

[Qrazy]

Excellent observation, one that I've said in different words many times. Alas, we do differ some in that I think that Jackson is quite guilty of crap aesthetics when getting CG happy (and given the nature of his earlier stuff, it seems he often wishes to embrace poor aesthetics, although Forgotten Silver is quality stuff). Funny you mention Burton, because most of the time I think he manages the movement while adhering to a sort of diorama model, maintaining the structural geography as well as visual unity. Not so much in his later stuff, when he abandoned models, but I still mostly appreciate his style (although there were moments of too-slickness in Sweeney Todd that I regretted).

I will say, now knowing what you're talking about, that the Harry Potter films are replete with these, never more damaging than in the fourth film, where we get one in nearly every scene (I'm counting here those wide panoramic shots that illustratively map out the location of the following scene). Gah, that series is annoying.

Another style I have no love for is the long static zoom... I forget who it was but some filmmaker complimented Visconti on his use of the zoom in one of his earlier films and then he went overboard and murdered the style in Death in Venice... unless the filmmaker is able to draw attention away from the zoom with compelling staging and drama the shot just becomes overbearing and insufferable.

Not too hot on 70's Kung Fu film whip zooms either... I mean every once in a while Ok but then in something like Seven Deadly Venoms... Ay caramba.

[Qrazy]

I agree completely, and am REALLY looking forward to your list whenever it may come. Russ Meyer makes great films though, even his cheap stuff. Except Ultra Vixens, although it still has it's moments.

Yeah I've only seen Fasterpussy Cat and enjoyed it... but something about cineastes holding him up as the golden standard for cinema just struck me as kind of funny.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Yeah I've only seen Fasterpussy Cat and enjoyed it... but something about cineastes holding him up as the golden standard for cinema just struck me as kind of funny.
I haven't seen that one honestly, Beyond the Valley is one of my favourite films though, and Up! is not far off. It is funny, and I'm sure he would get a kick out of it. I think his work is funny and smart, and well... titilating. Stimulating stuff.

[ledfloyd]

I had a similar response to Faster Pussycat. I really dug Beyond the Valley of the Dolls. Should probably check out more.

[Grouchy]

Old discussion but that uncanon list guy is just a self-proclaimed hipster asshole. I'm sure he's right about a couple of those examples, but from what I've seen of the list he got three out of three wrong. Giant is a flawed movie but the performances are the wrong thing to pick on because they're awesome, and not only Dean's. And he just missed the boat with Easy Rider and, specially, Gone with the Wind. That movie defines "it's cool to hate it" bullshit because none takes the time to actually watch it and learn from it.

Just seen an awesome classic film that would deserve to be canon, by the way, and it's The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean. Based on the life and times of a real self-proclaimed peace judge who served court issues on his own brothel-saloon, it's a field of opportunities for John Huston to kick ass and have a couple of laughs with the western genre. The film is well ahead of 1972 -at least for Hollywood- in a couple of things that we'd consider avant-garde today like zooming in to peek through a bullet wound (!!!), breaking the fourth wall (characters inside the scene turn to the screen to tell their take on the story) and using anachronistic music for the time period a lot better tan Sofia fucking Coppola. It also features one of the funniest Paul Newman performances, in full-on Butch Cassidy mode, and many other strange delights. Although the movie loses some momentum on the last third, it ends on the proper high note. Seriously, not to be missed. A new favorite western and my all-time favorite with comedy elements.

[Qrazy]

Old discussion but that uncanon list guy is just a self-proclaimed hipster asshole. I'm sure he's right about a couple of those examples, but from what I've seen of the list he got three out of three wrong. Giant is a flawed movie but the performances are the wrong thing to pick on because they're awesome, and not only Dean's. And he just missed the boat with Easy Rider and, specially, Gone with the Wind. That movie defines "it's cool to hate it" bullshit because none takes the time to actually watch it and learn from it.

So those of us who dislike Gone with the Wind just haven't taken the time to watch it. So that's what the problem was. Here I thought it was because the film is a bloated, racist, monotonous, insipid mess but no I just wasn't watching it. Right.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Sorta random thought, GWTW is actually one of the cases where the movie improves on the book. The book has no focus, so many pointless side stories, and she pops out way more babies.

[Qrazy]

Sorta random thought, GWTW is actually one of the cases where the movie improves on the book. The book has no focus, so many pointless side stories, and she pops out way more babies.

Racist babies.

[Qrazy]

Well Stardust kind of sucked... and on a side note I feel like Ricky Gervais is taking over Woody Allen's mantle... a very funny guy but he has the acting range of a pinecone. Actually Allen has a bit more range than what I've seen from Gervais so far.

[Duncan]

Another style I have no love for is the long static zoom... I forget who it was but some filmmaker complimented Visconti on his use of the zoom in one of his earlier films and then he went overboard and murdered the style in Death in Venice... unless the filmmaker is able to draw attention away from the zoom with compelling staging and drama the shot just becomes overbearing and insufferable. What's your opinion of Barry Lyndon?

[Qrazy]

What's your opinion of Barry Lyndon?

I think it's very good although not one of Kubrick's best... beautiful but could have done a bit more with it's storyline. Stylistically the zooms are the weakest part of the picture... when I watched the film I conceived of the zooms as some sort of meta-textual zooming in on/re-framing of and examination of 'history', but any mildly interesting intellectual concerns which are gained via the technique are in my mind lost in the aesthetic tedium which nearly always seems to be an intrinsic element of said technique.

Grouped categorically in order of preference (preferred category first - inside any given category the ranking is interchangeable).

# 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
# Paths of Glory (1957)

# Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964)
# A Clockwork Orange (1971)
# Lolita (1962)
# The Shining (1980)
# Barry Lyndon (1975)

# The Killing (1956)
# Spartacus (1960)

# Full Metal Jacket (1987)
# Eyes Wide Shut (1999)
Killer's Kiss

[Qrazy]

What do stars do? ... Shine!

Fuck you Neil Gaiman, stop writing.

[soitgoes...]

I know I am 3 months late, but...

The strangest product placement I've seen in awhile is a bottle of Campari in Cloverfield. Did they actually expect 70 year old Italian ladies to be their target audience? The stuff is godawful. I've been bartending for about ten years now, and I can probably count on both hands how many times I've poured Campari.
Otherwise a surprisingly good movie. Sure there are flaws. One of the biggest ones I can think of is the lack of the word "fuck." If I were in that situation I can guarantee you an R-rating.

[baby doll]

I didn't know anyone actually read my blog (look at how many comments I get compared to Roger Ebert--zero to sixty-five), but I was googling myself and I found a link to an entry on a Brian De Palma fan site (http://www.angelfire.com/de/palma/news2.html). (Just hit Ctrl+F and type "sooriyakumaran.") Apart from on here, how would anyone know my blog even exists?

[Sven]

Another style I have no love for is the long static zoom... I forget who it was but some filmmaker complimented Visconti on his use of the zoom in one of his earlier films and then he went overboard and murdered the style in Death in Venice... unless the filmmaker is able to draw attention away from the zoom with compelling staging and drama the shot just becomes overbearing and insufferable.

Not too hot on 70's Kung Fu film whip zooms either... I mean every once in a while Ok but then in something like Seven Deadly Venoms... Ay caramba.

See... these I like. How do you feel about Altman? And you've completely missed the boat on Lyndon. I've written about the zooms in that one, but this guy has done it better:

http://www.jeffreyscottbernstein.com/kubrick/barrylyndon.html

[Sven]

What do stars do? ... Shine!

Fuck you Neil Gaiman, stop writing.

To be fair, he didn't write the screenplay, and the novel is supposed to be taken as a children's story, so he paints his fantastic pictures in relatively simple terms.

Have you read anything he's written? He's quite good.

[balmakboor]

I didn't know anyone actually read my blog (look at how many comments I get compared to Roger Ebert--zero to sixty-five), but I was googling myself and I found a link to an entry on a Brian De Palma fan site (http://www.angelfire.com/de/palma/news2.html). (Just hit Ctrl+F and type "sooriyakumaran.") Apart from on here, how would anyone know my blog even exists?

You'd be surprised who reads your stuff. I put my thoughts on A.I. out there a number of years ago and then got this out-of-the-blue email a while later from a Presbyterian paster asking if he could print out copies and use it to spark discussion when they watched A.I. for their "movie night." I put THX 1138 on a top ten list once and got a phone call from a guy in San Francisco who wanted to point me toward an article on George Lucas he had just written for Wired. And just last week I got an email from an English professor in Kentucky who wanted to compliment me on my review of Gummo on my blog.

[balmakboor]

What do you disagree with, that there's not enough breadth to it and the ordering/grouping of the films? His choices seem fairly by the books (of other canons) to me.

Just operating with the titles in his canon here's how I'd bump things around (with a few replacements of better films by the same director... films they're replacing are still good but might as well have the director's (imo) strongest film in the canon).

Gold

1. The Rules of the Game (1939, Jean Renoir) - Stay
2. Tokyo Story (1953, Yasujiro Ozu) - Stay or Floating Weeds
3. City Lights (1931, Charles Chaplin) - Stay
4. Pickpocket (1959, Robert Bresson) - Replace with Au Hasard Balthazar
5. Metropolis (1927, Fritz Lang) - Stay, maybe down to silver (M deserves a place too)
6. Citizen Kane (1941, Orson Welles) - Stay
7. Orphée (1950, Jean Cocteau) - Down to silver or bronze
8. Masculin-Feminin (1966, Jean-Luc Godard) - Haven't seen but I'm guessing I'd replace with another Godard.
9. Persona (1966, Ingmar Bergman) - Never really been as huge on this one as others are, would prob. replace with 5-6 other Bergman's which I prefer.
10. Vertigo (1958, Alfred Hitchcock) - Stay
11. Sunrise (1927, F.W. Murnau) - Maybe down to silver
12. The Searchers (1956, John Ford) - Down to silver... I suppose it is the quintessential John Ford entry.
13. The Lady Eve (1941, Preston Sturges) - Down to silver maybe replace with Sullivan's Travels.
14. The Conformist (1970, Bernardo Bertolucci) - Stay, maybe down to silver
15. 8 ½ (1963, Federico Fellini) - Replace with La Dolce Vita but no complaints really.
16. The Godfather (1972, Francis Ford Coppola) - Stay
17. In the Mood for Love (2000, Wong Kar-wai) - Maybe replace with Happy Together
18. The Third Man (1949, Carol Reed) - Down to silver.
19. Performance (1970, Donald Cammell/Nicholas Roeg) - Haven't seen but based on other Roeg's I've seen I'd prob. bump it off the canon completely.
20. La Notte (1961, Michelangelo Antonioni) - Any of the trilogy could be here I don't care.

Silver

21. Mother and Son (1997, Alexander Sokurov) - Bump down
22. The Leopard (1963, Luchino Visconti) - Haven't seen
23. The Dead (1987, John Huston) - Bump off, Huston's done a lot better... replace with Treasure of the Sierra Madre or Maltese Falcon.
24. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968, Stanley Kubrick) - Up to gold.
25. Last Year at Marienbad (1961, Alain Resnais) - Prefer Hiroshima Mon Amour.
26. The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928, Carl Theodor Dreyer) - Up to gold.
27. Jules and Jim (1961, Francois Truffaut) - Stay
28. The Wild Bunch (1969, Sam Peckinpah) - Stay
29. All That Jazz (1979, Bob Fosse) - Haven't seen
30. The Life of Oharu (1952, Kenji Mizoguchi) - Prefer Ugetsu and Sansho
31. High and Low (1963, Akira Kurosawa) - Throne of Blood, Ran, and others are all more deserving and should be in gold.
32. Sweet Smell of Success (1957, Alexander Mackendrick) - Stay
33. That Obscure Object of Desire (1977, Luis Bunuel) - I think Discreet Charm and Phantom are both stronger of his late period... Obscure is slightly stronger than Milky Way... both pale in comparison to Viridiana and Exterminating Angel.
34. An American in Paris (1951, Vincente Minnelli) - Singin in the Rain is prob. more deserving, switch 'em.
35. The Battle of Algiers (1966, Gillo Pontecorvo) - Stay
36. Taxi Driver (1976, Martin Scorsese) - Raging Bull then Goodfellas, and then Taxi Driver.
37. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul (1974, Rainer Werner Fassbinder) - Prob. stay like Godard Fassbinder has a number of interchangeable excellent films.
38. Blue Velvet (1986, David Lynch) - Sure... Eraserhead and Elephant Man could be substituted but Blue Velvet is probably a good compromise between crazy and regular Lynch.
39. Crimes and Misdemeanors (1989, Woody Allen) - Manhattan and Annie Hall are the more deserving I think but then Crimes.
40. The Big Lebowski (1998, Joel Coen) - Ehh... just go with Fargo and down to bronze.

Bronze

41. The Red Shoes (1948, Michael Powell/Emeric Pressburger) - Up to silver.
42. Singin' in the Rain (1952, Stanley Donen) - Switch
43. Chinatown (1974, Roman Polanski) - Up to silver.
44. The Crowd (1928, King Vidor) - Haven't seen
45. Sunset Boulevard (1950, Billy Wilder) - Up to silver
46. Talk to Her (2002, Pedro Almodovar) - Haven't seen
47. Shanghai Express (1932, Josef von Sternberg) - Haven't seen
48. Letter from an Unknown Woman (1948, Max Ophuls) - Stay.
49. Once Upon a Time in the West (1969, Sergio Leone) - Prefer GBU, up to silver
50. Salvatore Giuliano (1962, Francesco Rosi) - Haven't seen
51. Nostalghia (1983, Andrei Tarkovsky) - Stalker, Andrei Rublev are more deserving and up to platinum.
52. Seven Men from Now (1956, Budd Boetticher) - Haven't seen
53. Claire's Knee (1970, Eric Rohmer) - Haven't seen
54. Earth (1930, Alexander Dovzhenko) - Stay
55. Gun Crazy (1949, Joseph H. Lewis) - Off list
56. Out of the Past (1947, Jacques Tourneur) - Stay or off list.
57. Children of Paradise (1945, Marcel Carne) - Stay maybe up.
58. The Naked Spur (1953, Anthony Mann) - Haven't seen
59. A Place in the Sun (1951, George Stevens) - Haven't seen
60. The General (1927, Buster Keaton) - Sherlock, Steamboat stay or up a bit.

You've actually echoed a fair number of my sentiments. Mostly what I feel to be better film choices by the represented directors and a few things that I consider to be glaring omissions. More later...

[origami_mustache]

Today I watched one of the best silents I think I've ever seen.

It was Yonggang Wu's 1934 film The Goddess and it was a really heartwarming but truly devastating experience. It's weird to go from watching Metropolis and see its commentary on modernization to this, where a mother is forced into prostitution in the city of Shanghai in order to feed her baby son. I don't even really know how to talk about it yet but...if you have the means, I really do truly recommend this film. So perfectly paced, perfectly acted (especially when it could have easily been overacted) and great use of the camera from the insides of the cramped home to the neon lights of the city.

Here is the link for it at KARAGARGA: http://karagarga.net/details.php?id=6772

Yeah, The Goddess is a really great and historically important film, being one of the major leftist films in 1930s China and starring Ruan Lingyu who was hugely popular, but killed herself at the age of 25.

[balmakboor]

My first cut at changes would go something like this:

Gold

1. The Rules of the Game (1939, Jean Renoir) - Stay
2. Tokyo Story (1953, Yasujiro Ozu) - Stay
3. City Lights (1931, Charles Chaplin) - Stay
4. Pickpocket (1959, Robert Bresson) - Replace with Diary of a Country Priest
5. Metropolis (1927, Fritz Lang) - Replace with M
6. Citizen Kane (1941, Orson Welles) - Stay
7. Orphée (1950, Jean Cocteau) - Haven't seen
8. Masculin-Feminin (1966, Jean-Luc Godard) - Replace with Contempt.
9. Persona (1966, Ingmar Bergman) - I didn't care for this. I don't even care for Bergman all that much. (Runs and hides.)
10. Vertigo (1958, Alfred Hitchcock) - Stay
11. Sunrise (1927, F.W. Murnau) - Probably replace with The Last Laugh or Nosferatu
12. The Searchers (1956, John Ford) - Stay
13. The Lady Eve (1941, Preston Sturges) - Haven't seen
14. The Conformist (1970, Bernardo Bertolucci) - Haven't seen
15. 8 ½ (1963, Federico Fellini) - Stay
16. The Godfather (1972, Francis Ford Coppola) - Stay
17. In the Mood for Love (2000, Wong Kar-wai) - Maybe replace with Chungking Express
18. The Third Man (1949, Carol Reed) - Don't really care for.
19. Performance (1970, Donald Cammell/Nicholas Roeg) - I like this, but is it canon fodder? Nope.
20. La Notte (1961, Michelangelo Antonioni) - Replace with Blow Up

Silver

21. Mother and Son (1997, Alexander Sokurov) - Haven't seen
22. The Leopard (1963, Luchino Visconti) - I saw this and don't really understand the love.
23. The Dead (1987, John Huston) - I'd get rid of Huston altogether.
24. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968, Stanley Kubrick) - Up to gold.
25. Last Year at Marienbad (1961, Alain Resnais) - Haven't seen
26. The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928, Carl Theodor Dreyer) - Replace with Ordet
27. Jules and Jim (1961, Francois Truffaut) - Replace with 400 Blows
28. The Wild Bunch (1969, Sam Peckinpah) - Stay
29. All That Jazz (1979, Bob Fosse) - Kick it outa here. (I do like it though.)
30. The Life of Oharu (1952, Kenji Mizoguchi) - Haven't seen
31. High and Low (1963, Akira Kurosawa) - Replace with Ikiru
32. Sweet Smell of Success (1957, Alexander Mackendrick) - I'd give this the boot.
33. That Obscure Object of Desire (1977, Luis Bunuel) - Replace with Discreet Charm for now. (I haven't seen any other Bunuel.)
34. An American in Paris (1951, Vincente Minnelli) - Singin in the Rain is prob. more deserving, switch 'em.
35. The Battle of Algiers (1966, Gillo Pontecorvo) - Stay
36. Taxi Driver (1976, Martin Scorsese) - Stay
37. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul (1974, Rainer Werner Fassbinder) - Stay or replace with Berlin Alexanderplatz
38. Blue Velvet (1986, David Lynch) - Replace with Eraserhead
39. Crimes and Misdemeanors (1989, Woody Allen) - Replace with Annie Hall by a mile
40. The Big Lebowski (1998, Joel Coen) - I've never found a love for Lebowski. Fargo and No Country are his best.

Bronze

41. The Red Shoes (1948, Michael Powell/Emeric Pressburger) - Up to silver.
42. Singin' in the Rain (1952, Stanley Donen) - Switch
43. Chinatown (1974, Roman Polanski) - Up to silver.
44. The Crowd (1928, King Vidor) - Haven't seen
45. Sunset Boulevard (1950, Billy Wilder) - Up to silver
46. Talk to Her (2002, Pedro Almodovar) - Replace with Women on the Verge or Matador
47. Shanghai Express (1932, Josef von Sternberg) - Haven't seen
48. Letter from an Unknown Woman (1948, Max Ophuls) - Haven't seen
49. Once Upon a Time in the West (1969, Sergio Leone) - Prefer GBU, up to silver
50. Salvatore Giuliano (1962, Francesco Rosi) - Haven't seen
51. Nostalghia (1983, Andrei Tarkovsky) - Stalker, Andrei Rublev are more deserving
52. Seven Men from Now (1956, Budd Boetticher) - Haven't seen
53. Claire's Knee (1970, Eric Rohmer) - Haven't seen
54. Earth (1930, Alexander Dovzhenko) - Haven't seen
55. Gun Crazy (1949, Joseph H. Lewis) - Off list
56. Out of the Past (1947, Jacques Tourneur) - Off list.
57. Children of Paradise (1945, Marcel Carne) - Haven't seen
58. The Naked Spur (1953, Anthony Mann) - Haven't seen
59. A Place in the Sun (1951, George Stevens) - Haven't seen
60. The General (1927, Buster Keaton) - Replace with Sherlock or Our Hospitality

I'd try to find places for:
Playtime - Tati
Sans Soleil - Marker
Scorpio Rising - Anger
Night of the Living Dead - Romero
The Terminator - Cameron

[Duncan]

Today I watched one of the best silents I think I've ever seen.

It was Yonggang Wu's 1934 film The Goddess and it was a really heartwarming but truly devastating experience. It's weird to go from watching Metropolis and see its commentary on modernization to this, where a mother is forced into prostitution in the city of Shanghai in order to feed her baby son. I don't even really know how to talk about it yet but...if you have the means, I really do truly recommend this film. So perfectly paced, perfectly acted (especially when it could have easily been overacted) and great use of the camera from the insides of the cramped home to the neon lights of the city.

Here is the link for it at KARAGARGA: http://karagarga.net/details.php?id=6772

Could you seed this? I got nothin' at the moment.

[MadMan]

I didn't know anyone actually read my blog (look at how many comments I get compared to Roger Ebert--zero to sixty-five), but I was googling myself and I found a link to an entry on a Brian De Palma fan site (http://www.angelfire.com/de/palma/news2.html). (Just hit Ctrl+F and type "sooriyakumaran.") Apart from on here, how would anyone know my blog even exists?I must confess I had no idea you had a blog. And wait your sooriyakumaran? I wondered what had happened to the guy....


Just seen an awesome classic film that would deserve to be canon, by the way, and it's The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean. Based on the life and times of a real self-proclaimed peace judge who served court issues on his own brothel-saloon, it's a field of opportunities for John Huston to kick ass and have a couple of laughs with the western genre. The film is well ahead of 1972 -at least for Hollywood- in a couple of things that we'd consider avant-garde today like zooming in to peek through a bullet wound (!!!), breaking the fourth wall (characters inside the scene turn to the screen to tell their take on the story) and using anachronistic music for the time period a lot better tan Sofia fucking Coppola. It also features one of the funniest Paul Newman performances, in full-on Butch Cassidy mode, and many other strange delights. Although the movie loses some momentum on the last third, it ends on the proper high note. Seriously, not to be missed. A new favorite western and my all-time favorite with comedy elements.I've never heard of that film. Thanks for mentioning it, as I shall add it to my never ending "To See" list.

[Stay Puft]

Could you seed this? I got nothin' at the moment.

I second this request. I'd like to see this.

[Scar]

Resident Evil was one I enjoyed back when it came out in '02.

A few years later I tried to watch it and absolutely hated it.

And the sequel was absolute balls.

I really don't have the drive to see Extinction any time soon.

Don't watch Extinction. I shut it off less then half way through. I told myself to shut it off at about the ten minute mark, but I didn't listen to myself.

[Qrazy]

See... these I like. How do you feel about Altman? And you've completely missed the boat on Lyndon. I've written about the zooms in that one, but this guy has done it better:

http://www.jeffreyscottbernstein.com/kubrick/barrylyndon.html

I dont see how I missed the boat when I directly referenced their purpose in my post and then conclude that while there is obvious thematic purposiveness I still dont feel its ultimately aesthetically effective.

I find it to be a case of the boom swinging too far in the other direction... the no one using long zooms to using exclusively long zooms... when used sparingly I find the technique can be (aesthetically) effective (I feel like theres some in The Conversation).

Both Altman, Tarkovsky and Sokurov employ the zoom in a very different way because they use with their tracking shots... I have no problem with this because I think it works and is visually dynamic. Its the repetitive use of slow, static zooms that grates for me.

[Qrazy]

To be fair, he didn't write the screenplay, and the novel is supposed to be taken as a children's story, so he paints his fantastic pictures in relatively simple terms.

Have you read anything he's written? He's quite good.

No Ive only seen this and Mirrormask in both cases the scripts and general story arc were weak.

[Qrazy]

9. Persona (1966, Ingmar Bergman) - I didn't care for this. I don't even care for Bergman all that much. (Runs and hides.)

23. The Dead (1987, John Huston) - I'd get rid of Huston altogether.

Playtime - Tati
Sans Soleil - Marker
Scorpio Rising - Anger
Night of the Living Dead - Romero
The Terminator - Cameron

Which Bergman have you seen? I was lukewarm on him too but its because my entry point was with the wrong films and bad prints. I started with films like Autumn Sonata and Serpents Egg (both of which I find are fairly suck) then watched a VHS of Persona and Cries and Whispers (the latter two I appreciated but didnt fall in love with)... also The Seventh Seal which is very good and very representative of Bergman but not his greatest effort. At this point I started warming to him more and more with each passing film... Shame (probably the least of the following), Smiles of a Summer Night (brilliant script), Hour of the Wolf, Through a Glass Darkly, The Silence, Fanny and Alexander (TV edition), The Virgin Spring.

Im highly confident Ill love Winter Light, The Magic Flute, Wild Strawberries... be positive but lukewarm on Scenes from a Marriage, The Magician and Sawdust and Tinsel and hate Passion of Anna and a few of his lesser works... these are my predictions.

I dunno I think Huston is pretty damn strong. I think he deserves admission but maybe in bronze (I still have to see Fat City but I hear its his best and I my cousins nomination for the best film ever made).

Id agree with your first two additions, the other three I dont think need to be in a canon. There are lots of other films and filmmakers I also think should be added but wont go into it now.

[Qrazy]

I must confess I had no idea you had a blog. And wait your sooriyakumaran? I wondered what had happened to the guy....

I've never heard of that film. Thanks for mentioning it, as I shall add it to my never ending "To See" list.

It's on Eberts best films list, been meaning to see it for a while... even though Im not super hot on Ebert... I do like Huston.

[megladon8]

Don't watch Extinction. I shut it off less then half way through. I told myself to shut it off at about the ten minute mark, but I didn't listen to myself.


That's just a little bit schizophrenic.

[Scar]

That's just a little bit schizophrenic.

Robert did it.

http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/hauntedfurniture/haunteddoll/robert/images/Robert-haunted-doll.jpg

[balmakboor]

The Bismarck Tribune just asked me to review A Plumm Summer with Henry Winkler and William Baldwin. Woo Hoo! I'm about to find out the hard way if movie critic is all it's cracked up to be.

[Qrazy]

Let's talk about lead actor/director partnerships that last much of a career or for a few pictures (bearing in mind that many directors have a ton of stock actors who they repeatedly use)... and some of the one's that aren't spoken about as frequently. Rank them if you want or just add your two cents.

Pasolini: Ninetto Davoli
Kurosawa: Mifune, Takashi Shimura
Bergman: Ullmann, Von Sydow
Scorsese: De Niro, Di Caprio
Tarkovsky: Anatolli Solonitsyn
Fellini: Marcello Mastroianni
Antonioni: Monica Vitti
Renoir: Julien Carette, Jean Gabin
Godard: Anna Karina
Wong Kar Wai: Tony Leung
Melville: Alain Delon
Herzog: Kinski, Bruno S.
Cassavetes: Gazzara, Falk, Rowlands
Huston: Bogart
Powell: Roger Livesey
Altman: Elliott Gould, Michael Murphy
Woody Allen: Diane Keaton


Any others?

[balmakboor]

Ozu - Chishu Ryu, Setsuko Hara
Powell - Anton Walbrook
Fassbinder - Hanna Schygulla
Yimou Zhang - Li Gong

[Russ]

Let's talk about lead actor/director partnerships that last much of a career or for a few pictures (bearing in mind that many directors have a ton of stock actors who they repeatedly use)... and some of the one's that aren't spoken about as frequently. Rank them if you want or just add your two cents.

Pasolini: Ninetto Davoli
Kurosawa: Mifune, Takashi Shimura
Bergman: Ullmann, Von Sydow
Scorsese: De Niro, Di Caprio
Tarkovsky: Anatolli Solonitsyn
Fellini: Marcello Mastroianni
Antonioni: Monica Vitti
Renoir: Julien Carette, Jean Gabin
Godard: Anna Karina
Wong Kar Wai: Tony Leung
Melville: Alain Delon
Herzog: Kinski, Bruno S.
Cassavetes: Gazzara, Falk, Rowlands
Huston: Bogart
Powell: Roger Livesey
Altman: Elliott Gould, Michael Murphy
Woody Allen: Diane Keaton


Any others?

Miike: Sho Aikawa
Burton: Depp
Coens: Goodman, Turturro, Buscemi

...


Ed Wood - Tor Johnson
John Waters - Divine


:)

[Eleven]

Hitchcock: Stewart, Grant
Ford: Wayne
Kazan: Brando
Lynch: Dern, MacLachlan
Anderson: Murray, Wilson
Carpenter: Russell
Raimi: Campbell
Woo: Chow-Yun

[balmakboor]

Ford - Wayne
Hitchcock - Grant, Stewart

[origami_mustache]

Ming-liang Tsai - Kang-sheng Lee and Shiang-chyi Chen

Sad Vacation (2007) (newest Shinji Aoyama film) on KG...but no subs :(

[Qrazy]

Is there anyone here who loves Ninetto Davoli? I find his happy go lucky attitude gets rather tiresome after awhile. Similarly with Liv Ullmann (I know I"m in the minority here but fuck you), although she has a lot more range than Davoli many of her character's often devolve into hysterics and have a staggering capacity for bad faith.

They're both good(ish) actors and Ullmann's given a fair share of great performances but I'm not fond of certain elements of their personality which bleed through into the roles (although the director often uses those traits well in the context of the film)... Similarly to how PS Hoffmann's slobbiness grates on Iosis.

[Qrazy]

Johnny To seems to be directing a remake (I guess?) of Melville's Le Cercle Rouge... Alain Delon has a role.

[Philosophe_rouge]

My favourite Bergman collaborator is easily Gunnar Björnstrand. I don't have much else to add because I don't feel like thinking right now. Umm, Grant and Hawks is a good one

[Eleven]

Bergman collaborated multiple times with several great actors: Thulin, Josephson, Dahlbeck, both Anderssons.

And Altman did some great stuff with Shelley Duvall.

[Stay Puft]

Lau Kar Leung / Gordon Liu

One of the best pairings ever, perhaps the best in action cinema.

[Qrazy]

And Altman did some great stuff with Shelley Duvall.

Pretty much the only time in her career where Duvall actually looked mildly attractive.

[megladon8]

Wes Anderson / Owen Wilson

And though they've only done 3 films together as of this year, I think Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale are a great team. Their styles suit each other very well.

[Winston*]

Jordan/Rea

[Derek]

Sad Vacation (2007) (newest Shinji Aoyama film) on KG...but no subs :(

Wonderful. Could you just kick me in the balls next time? ;)

Naruse - Hideko Takamine

[Qrazy]

Wes Anderson / Luke Wilson

And though they've only done 3 films together as of this year, I think Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale are a great team. Their styles suit each other very well.

Agreed... I don't like Bale's upcoming film choices though (Mann film has potential I suppose but)... Carnahan? McG? He's better than this. Going the Nick Cage route? Or at least he has the potential to be better based on his last few films or so and the direction he's gotten his career headed. Disappointing.

[megladon8]

Agreed... I don't like Bale's upcoming film choices though (Mann film has potential I suppose but)... Carnahan? McG? He's better than this. Going the Nick Cage route?


Well, he's also had some stinkers in the past.

Harsh Times was quite bad, and he was bad in it as well.

He's my favorite modern actor, and would probably be my 2nd or 3rd favorite actor of all time - but he can't play anything. And that Harsh Times role just wasn't for him at all.

Let's not forget he was also in Captain Corelli's Mandolin and Reign of Fire :)

I'm looking forward to his collaboration with Michael Mann, who is one of the greatest directors ever to work in the American crime film genre.

I think he probably just has a mediocre line-up for the next while. I don't expect it to be a trend or anything.

[Qrazy]

Well, he's also had some stinkers in the past.

Harsh Times was quite bad, and he was bad in it as well.


Yeah but my point isn't what his career has been but where he's gotten it to and what he has the potential to make it into.

I assume at this stage of his career with the draw he's amassed that he has the capacity to pick most of his own roles.

[Winston*]

Watched Suspiria last night. It was pretty cool. I like the colours.

Witches and magics are real, y'know? Gotta watch out for that shit.

[megladon8]

Yeah but my point isn't what his career has been but where he's gotten it to and what he has the potential to make it into.

I assume at this stage of his career with the draw he's amassed that he has the capacity to pick most of his own roles.


I don't see anything glaringly terrible in his choices, though.

The McG film is the next Terminator movie, which has been a ridiculously successful franchise thus far.

Then there's the Michael Mann film.

And despite Carnahan's Smokin' Aces (which I haven't seen, but I know most hate it), Narc was fantastic. One of the best cop dramas of the decade.

[Winston*]

Did you see Equlibrium, megladon8? What a terrible movie that one was. Hilariously bad.

[megladon8]

Did you see Equlibrium, megladon8? What a terrible movie that one was. Hilariously bad.


I didn't think it was that bad, but I also haven't seen it in a few years.

I thought it had serious pacing issues, and the dialogue was terrible.

But the gun-kata stuff was pretty neat.

[Winston*]

But the gun-kata stuff was pretty neat.
The silly kung fu shooting? That was one of the funniest things about the film.

[Scar]

The silly kung fu shooting? That was one of the funniest things about the film.

I lost count how many times I watched that movie....

[Dead & Messed Up]

TMNT was serviceable, notable mostly for its interesting, distinct animations and an effort to focus more on the tension between Raphael and Leonardo. Lord only knows why the plot is about interdimensional beasties, millienial curses, and contraptions that look like they've been stolen from Hellboy.

[megladon8]

TMNT was serviceable, notable mostly for its interesting, distinct animations and an effort to focus more on the tension between Raphael and Leonardo. Lord only knows why the plot is about interdimensional beasties, millienial curses, and contraptions that look like they've been stolen from Hellboy.


The fight between Leo and Raphael on the rooftop was flippin' awesome.

Without a doubt the best part of the movie.

[Russ]

I'd just like to welcome back Winston*

I love this review (http://matchcut.org/viewtopic.php?t=10904) almost as much as the infamous RT review of Plannet of Them Ape (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/showthread.php?t=118692)

[Qrazy]

I don't see anything glaringly terrible in his choices, though.

The McG film is the next Terminator movie, which has been a ridiculously successful franchise thus far.

Then there's the Michael Mann film.

And despite Carnahan's Smokin' Aces (which I haven't seen, but I know most hate it), Narc was fantastic. One of the best cop dramas of the decade.

McG just sucks, being in a decent franchise won't help him.

Maybe I"m jumping the gun on Carnahan, I haven't seen either film but I still have my doubts.

[Qrazy]

TMNT was serviceable, notable mostly for its interesting, distinct animations and an effort to focus more on the tension between Raphael and Leonardo. Lord only knows why the plot is about interdimensional beasties, millienial curses, and contraptions that look like they've been stolen from Hellboy.

I thought it was pretty crappy... shame cause I really liked TMNT as a kid.

[origami_mustache]

Wonderful. Could you just kick me in the balls next time? ;)



haha yeah that's pretty much how I felt, so I figured why not share the pain.

[Watashi]

Nothing will ever top Plannet of Them Ape.

Nothing.

[DrewG]

Would anyone mind giving me a recommendation for which soundtrack to finally watch with Nosferatu (1922)...the sepia toned restored version? Which is apparently the newest.

For reference:

The disc features two stereo soundtracks: the Audio 1 tracks present an original music score performed on synthesizers by Donald Sosin, with vocals by Joanna Seaton and some incidental sound effects; the Audio 2 tracks present music composed by Géard Hourbette and Thierry Zaboitzeff, performed on synthesizers by Art Zoyd. The Sosin music is very good and sometimes reveals a wry sense of humor within its in-turns somber and romantic tone. The Hourbette-Zaboitzeff-Zoyd music is eerily atmospheric, dynamic, and takes a far more modern approach to its synthesized sounds and aggressive arrangements, but it can also be at times annoying. Some viewers will appreciate the Sosin option.

[Qrazy]

New Gen Cinema:

So who else do you think deserves to be in or taken out of this group of filmmakers (mostly music video backgrounds)?

Michel Gondry
Spike Jonze
David Fincher
David Gordon Green
Christopher Nolan
Wes Anderson
PT Anderson
Wes Anderson

Some maybe inclusions:

Jonathan Glazer

[Qrazy]

You know what's usually awful? Old movie trailers. They say the film's title like 50 times, there's no sense of pacing, tone is all over the place... really just horrible to watch for the most part.

[Watashi]

You know what's usually awful? Old movie trailers. They say the film's title like 50 times, there's no sense of pacing, tone is all over the place... really just horrible to watch for the most part.
You obviously haven't watched the Citizen Kane (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyv19bg0scg) trailer. It's better than most trailer today.

[Qrazy]

You obviously haven't watched the Citizen Kane (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyv19bg0scg) trailer. It's better than most trailer today.

Yeah yeah I mean most (most big studio releases) Kane trailer is great, there are definitely exceptions.

---

Anyone seen any Pawlikowski? Found his name on the guardian's website... seems like someone worth looking into.

[DrewG]

My problem with some old film trailers (I guess I don't mean 40's-50's, more like 60's) is that they give away a ton of stuff. I remember one The Graduate trailer (I believe it was after all of its Academy Award noms) that gave away litereally everything including the ending scene of the banging on the class and that shrill call of "BENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!"

[megladon8]

Hey, another director/actor match-up I was impessed by...

Steven Spielberg and Tom Cruise.

Sure, they only made two movies together (and one of them was quite mediocre), but the other one - Minority Report - was a modern masterpiece.

Spielberg's artful-yet-definitively-mainstream style of filmmaking seems ready-made for Tom Cruise's emotive leading man.

[DrewG]

Director/actor match-up I love: Udo Kier with Lars von Trier.

I can imagine it on set: "Udo...sinister...look sinister...okay more sinister...okay don't look that sinister, that's like satan. Dammit, I need some Christopher Walken."

[DrewG]

Today I watched one of the best silents I think I've ever seen.

It was Yonggang Wu's 1934 film The Goddess and it was a really heartwarming but truly devastating experience. It's weird to go from watching Metropolis and see its commentary on modernization to this, where a mother is forced into prostitution in the city of Shanghai in order to feed her baby son. I don't even really know how to talk about it yet but...if you have the means, I really do truly recommend this film. So perfectly paced, perfectly acted (especially when it could have easily been overacted) and great use of the camera from the insides of the cramped home to the neon lights of the city.

Here is the link for it at KARAGARGA: http://karagarga.net/details.php?id=6772

Just because...I really feel like more people have gotta watch this masterpiece. :)

[Sven]

Replace Nolan with Glazer and get rid of one of those Wes's and I cannot complain. Maybe David Russell?

[Qrazy]

Director/actor match-up I love: Udo Kier with Lars von Trier.

I can imagine it on set: "Udo...sinister...look sinister...okay more sinister...okay don't look that sinister, you look like my father. Dammit, I need some Christopher Walken."

Fixed. :)

[origami_mustache]

New Gen Cinema:

Some maybe inclusions:


not sure how stringent you meant the music video bgs to be...but I typically think of these directors as new gen.

Darren Aronofsky
Tom Tykwer
Sofia Coppola
Toshiaki Toyoda
Shinya Tsukamoto
Rob Zombie

[Winston*]

Aside from the eyepatch movie, Tom Cruise's next two films are apparently titled Men and Hardy Men.

[DrewG]

Fixed. :)

Hahaha, well for von Trier to think about his father he'd have to be imagining a nudist Communist, so yeah, I guess that is like envisioning or enduring an unseen circle of hell.

[Russ]

So who else do you think deserves to be in or taken out of this group of filmmakers (mostly music video backgrounds)?
Graeme Whifler.

[DrewG]

No one has any input on what score to watch with Nosferatu?

[megladon8]

No one has any input on what score to watch with Nosferatu?


I have the Image DVD, and it has a score by The Silent Orchestra, as well as one by Type O Negative.

Avoid the latter at all costs.

[DrewG]

Could Lukas Moodysson be included in that list maybe? I mean, once the bastard gets back to making movies with narratives that actually make some sense.

[origami_mustache]

No one has any input on what score to watch with Nosferatu?

ummmm the new wave one?

[Winston*]

No one has any input on what score to watch with Nosferatu?
Blondie's Parallel Lines. Trust me on this one.

[Qrazy]

not sure how stringent you meant the music video bgs to be...but I typically think of these directors as new gen.

Darren Aronofsky
Tom Tykwer
Sofia Coppola
Toshiaki Toyoda
Shinya Tsukamoto
Rob Zombie

Toshiaki Toyoda hmmm... what has this guy done that's worth seeing? Dunno 'em.

All the others fit except maybe Zombie (approach wise I suppose)... but his visuals don't feel 'slick' enough to me.

[origami_mustache]

Toshiaki Toyoda hmmm... what has this guy done that's worth seeing? Dunno 'em.

All the others fit except maybe Zombie (approach wise I suppose)... but his visuals don't feel 'slick' enough to me.

Blue Spring
9 Souls
Hanging Garden (1st film I saw from him...watched this in a contemporary Japanese film class and I think it is easily his best.)

from what I've heard he was busted for drug possession which is a big deal in Japan and no one in the industry wants to touch him now, which is disappointing.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I don't think it needs a score. Score-less ftw.

[Dead & Messed Up]

You know what's usually awful? Old movie trailers. They say the film's title like 50 times, there's no sense of pacing, tone is all over the place... really just horrible to watch for the most part.

Really? I kind of adore them. They're so overwrought and certain. Every film is a "cinematic masterwork" and a "new shock-sensation for our time" and "features new stars" that we never heard from again.

I wish more movies today were that brash and silly.

[Spinal]

Could Lukas Moodysson be included in that list maybe? I mean, once the bastard gets back to making movies with narratives that actually make some sense.

Have you seen Container?

[Qrazy]

Really? I kind of adore them. They're so overwrought and certain. Every film is a "cinematic masterwork" and a "new shock-sensation for our time" and "features new stars" that we never heard from again.

I wish more movies today were that brash and silly.

First there was this, and then there was that and now finally there is... The Other!

The Other, the greatest motion picture of all time, coming to a theater near you, right now.

[Qrazy]

The only Moodysson I"ve seen was Lilya and I was underwhelmed, where should I go next?

[Winston*]

The only Moodysson I"ve seen was Lilya and I was underwhelmed, where should I go next?

I don't like that one either. Together and Show Me Love are teh rox, though.

[Spinal]

Yeah, Lilya is his worst, in my opinion. The two Winston mentions are probably your best bet. I can't see you liking A Hole in My Heart.

[DrewG]

The only Moodysson I"ve seen was Lilya and I was underwhelmed, where should I go next?

What are you looking for?

The two films he made before Lilja 4-Ever were actually pretty cheery affairs compared to what he's doing now. Together is great but I really really love Fucking Amal or the more appropriate title Show Me Love for just how short, sweet and simple it is. It's the story of two girls in high school, one popular, one unpopular who eventually discover they have feelings for each other despite their tremendous social gap and the harsh outlook of their school on homosexuality. I think the reason I like it is because it's a high school movie shot in that grainy, raw, handheld style which you really don't see very often. A Hole In My Heart is really off the wall, experimental mish mash that he made because after being so successful with his first four films. I don't know many people at all that like A Hole In My Heart so I'm guessing you don't want to go there.

To answer your question Spinal I actually haven't seen Container yet but I hope to soon. Have you seen his documentary? I believe it's called Terrorister: The Kids They Sentenced.

But Qrazy, I'd say look up Together or Show Me Love and decide which one sounds more interesting to you.

[DrewG]

Yeah, Lilya is his worst, in my opinion. The two Winston mentions are probably your best bet. I can't see you liking A Hole in My Heart.

:evil: You take that back. Now.

I haven't had many film experiences in my life like the first time I watched Lilja 4-Ever...I was really just stunned. I opened up Microsoft Word and just wrote about it all night as I sporadically went through the movie. The 2nd viewing wasn't better but it wasn't any worse. I really do adore that movie though.

[Rowland]

I wasn't a big fan of Together, it felt kinda forced to me, but it had its charms. That's the only Moodysson I've seen.

[DrewG]

So for my final Film History: Silent Screen paper I think I'm going to be working with silent cinema, specifically Weimar horror my main 2 films being Murnau's Nosferatu and Wiene's The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari. I've been thinking of just examining what characteristics of horror they exhibit but I don't think that's really worthy of 10 pages. I need a better thesis; perhaps Weimar horror films as a reflection of Germany in shambles as country after the war?

Anyone have any ideas?

[SirNewt]

I'd rate Marnie a bit higher than you did, but yeah I don't understand the love that film gets around here.

It seemed a pretty conventional Freudian case with obvious cinematography and awkward acting (not terrible just a little awkward). I had three more lesser Hitchcocks to watch but I'm moving so I had to take my DVR in and now they're lost LOOOOOOSSSSTTTTT!!!!!!!




Hurrah for Giant at #2 on that list.

and The Ten Commandments sucks.

[DrewG]

'The Virgin Spring' - How many times can Bergman blow my mind?

Truthfully, after many Bergman experiences this was the first one that really did blow my mind so yeah, I have to very much agree with you on this rating. Stunning flick.

[Spinal]

To answer your question Spinal I actually haven't seen Container yet but I hope to soon. Have you seen his documentary? I believe it's called Terrorister: The Kids They Sentenced.


Haven't seen the doc. I've been wanting to see Container for quite some time now. I've been tempted to order the Region 2 DVD, but I can't justify going over $30 for it.

[Spinal]

:evil: You take that back. Now.


If Container is worse, I will.

[DrewG]

Haven't seen the doc. I've been wanting to see Container for quite some time now. I've been tempted to order the Region 2 DVD, but I can't justify going over $30 for it.

I'm probably just gonna grab Container off of Karagarga, or rent it from Kim's Video. Ahhh...Kim's Video. The only place I know where they organize movies by country and director. :)

[Stay Puft]

Just because...I really feel like more people have gotta watch this masterpiece. :)

I grabbed it.

Thanks if that was anyone here seeding it this afternoon.

[SirNewt]

Truthfully, after many Bergman experiences this was the first one that really did blow my mind so yeah, I have to very much agree with you on this rating. Stunning flick.

the rape sequence :eek:

When I first came to Bergman I was experiencing a crisis of faith. I found his films barely survivable. Perhaps later in life they'll contain less potency.

[DrewG]

the rape sequence :eek:

Yes and;

The ending really got me...the sister, Ingeri breaking down at the site of her sisters death, cursing herself for thinking she willed it to happen. And then von Sydow's great performance as he asks for God's forgiveness for murdering the ones who destroyed his daughter, saying he will use his hands to build a church. And then...the water springs out and Ingeri throws it on her face and they all sit there in silence or in tears. It is a PERFECT ending.

I wrote a little thing about it on my site. Here's the link if you wanna check it out: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?journalid=346 678&entryid=477936&view=public

[DrewG]

I grabbed it.

Thanks if that was anyone here seeding it this afternoon.

I had seen it in class, so I wasn't doing anything seeding. I was happy when I came home to see that Karagarga had it though...the movie only has like 150 rating votes on IMDb.

I might make a thread for it if I write something for it...if not, please do tell me what you think.

[Spinal]

Yeah, there are few things more perfect than the ending to The Virgin Spring.

[DrewG]

I must say, The Virgin Spring was really quite a gorgeous movie to screencap. Prime example:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/SSHS/af83810e.png

Oh baby.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I'm actually going to watch 2 Bergman films this week, because I really need that extra little bump down to really send me over the edge. Cries and Whispers and the Silence. Should be a roaring good time.

[DrewG]

I'm actually going to watch 2 Bergman films this week, because I really need that extra little bump down to really send me over the edge. Cries and Whispers and the Silence. Should be a roaring good time.

Shall I bring the razor blades?

I think my next film I'll watch from him will be Through a Glass Darkly. One of my friends from class is a Bergman hound...whenever he needs to relax he'll watch a Bergman movie. How that makes any sense when you think about it I'm not quite sure, I'd be liable to start questioning God, faith and my furniture.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Shall I bring the razor blades?

I think my next film I'll watch from him will be Through a Glass Darkly. One of my friends from class is a Bergman hound...whenever he needs to relax he'll watch a Bergman movie. How that makes any sense when you think about it I'm not quite sure, I'd be liable to start questioning God, faith and my furniture.
I actually understand the logic, in a way films like this can work to really let you let loose of your baggage and pent up emotions. As often as I like to watch a great comedy when I'm feeling down, I'll go for the crazy melodrama, or Bergman flick. They almost have the same effect. I haven't seen Glass yet, should see it soon though.

[DrewG]

I actually understand the logic, in a way films like this can work to really let you let loose of your baggage and pent up emotions. As often as I like to watch a great comedy when I'm feeling down, I'll go for the crazy melodrama, or Bergman flick. They almost have the same effect. I haven't seen Glass yet, should see it soon though.

I'm by no means a Bergman expert but I think I'm going to really adore all his "straight forward stuff (The Virgin Spring and as I've been told Through a Glass Darkly) against the stuff that's a bit more narratively complex, such as two films of his I didn't really like that much: Hour of the Wolf and Persona.

Didn't Bergman make a noir? I remember seeing it on Karagarga but I can't remember the name. Eh, I just tried looking for it but I should be studying so I stopped.

[SirNewt]

Yes and;

The ending really got me...the sister, Ingeri breaking down at the site of her sisters death, cursing herself for thinking she willed it to happen. And then von Sydow's great performance as he asks for God's forgiveness for murdering the ones who destroyed his daughter, saying he will use his hands to build a church. And then...the water springs out and Ingeri throws it on her face and they all sit there in silence or in tears. It is a PERFECT ending.

I wrote a little thing about it on my site. Here's the link if you wanna check it out: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?journalid=346 678&entryid=477936&view=public

The end is a fantastic example of finding the mythic or mystical in real life. A spring spouting forth from a place where there was previously a great weight is unusual but not unheard of.

I enjoyed the read.

I have to say I enjoyed the scene in the old man's bridge/hut but the transitions around it, particularly the transition from it was awkward.

Oh and after Bergman I'm a mess.

[DrewG]

The end is a fantastic example of finding the mythic or mystical in real life. A spring spouting forth from a place where there was previously a great weight is unusual but not unheard of.

I enjoyed the read.

I have to say I enjoyed the scene in the old man's bridge/hut but the transitions around it, particularly the transition from it was awkward.

Thanks for reading. Yeah, I guess to each their own on that scene...I see it as a rather small blemish on an otherwise beautiful piece. I think I zoned out during that part though...perhaps a re-watch will do some good. All I remember is that guy being a total creeper.

[SirNewt]

Thanks for reading. Yeah, I guess to each their own on that scene...I see it as a rather small blemish on an otherwise beautiful piece. I think I zoned out during that part though...perhaps a re-watch will do some good. All I remember is that guy being a total creeper.

I enjoyed the homage to a pretty common literature archetype, the pagan prophet.

[Qrazy]

Thanks for reading. Yeah, I guess to each their own on that scene...I see it as a rather small blemish on an otherwise beautiful piece. I think I zoned out during that part though...perhaps a re-watch will do some good. All I remember is that guy being a total creeper.

I had no problems with the old man scene. I thought it was tonally and narratively consistent and important for the film to go there and for the sister's story arc... crazy old man or devil incarnate? You decide!

But yeah I've heard many lukewarm responses to The Virgin Spring and I really don't understand them. I think it's one of his best... and the ending with the spring is much more nuanced and affecting in my mind than either the ending of The Ninth Configuration (blunt) or Ordet (too conclusive).

I love me my negative capability... I wish in Ordet... she had been in a coma and not dead prior to the resurrection.

[Qrazy]

What's the film where the guy teaches people to do the twist by crushing a cigarette with your left foot, then with your right foot and then both together and then everyone starts dancing? I saw it not too long ago but can't remember now.

[MadMan]

That Citizen Kane trailer rocks.

Oh and I'm surprised that when people were listing actors directors frequently work with no one said Leone/Eastwood.

I'm not sure if it got mentioned but I'd also throw in QT/Jackson and QT/Uma as well. Although there are other actors QT has worked with more than once or twice.

[Qrazy]

Cantata was very good. In fact after seeing this... The Red and the White and Red Psalm, Jansco in general is very good. I'm greatly anticipating The Round-Up.

Cantata was a bit reminiscent of Feu Follet (Malle) and L'avventura in some ways... less so in others... another one of those doubt and existential crisis of the postmodern man type dealio.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I'm not a fan of most trailers new or old, I generally avoid watching them altogether especially before I see something. The exception being when I go to theatres. I really like this old one for Baby Doll though,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=57FXgg5A3c4

[Qrazy]

I'm not a fan of most trailers new or old, I generally avoid watching them altogether especially before I see something. The exception being when I go to theatres. I really like this old one for Baby Doll though,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=57FXgg5A3c4

What you done is better off more than you can chew.

*lick*

[Derek]

Anyone seen any Pawlikowski? Found his name on the guardian's website... seems like someone worth looking into.

My Summer of Love is worth checking out.

[Philosophe_rouge]

What you done is better off more than you can chew.

*lick*
I'm surprised you can even focus on the dialogue in that scene, I've seen the film five times and have no idea what's going on there. It's all about the ice cream cone. God, I love this movie.

[DavidSeven]

The Savages... I liked it. Seems like most around here hated it.

::shrug::

[Watashi]

The Savages... I liked it. Seems like most around here hated it.

::shrug::
Your last three ratings have all pleased me.

See, we're not so different after all.

[origami_mustache]

The Savages... I liked it. Seems like most around here hated it.

::shrug::

I didn't dislike it, just found it to be very mediocre which I think is probably where a consensus here would place it.

[DrewG]

I watched a...shall we say, interesting British television documentary the other night. It was The World's Biggest Penis, a short (a little over 40 minutes) but well paced and somewhat informative documentary about whether that universal desire is either a gift or a curse. Prior to seeing it I'd already known the answer to "who is biggest?" because I had read the Rolling Stone article about Jonah Falcon; some normal, fat, white dude from America who is 9 inches flaccid and 13.5 erect. I thought it was interesting, possibly sad, that all his ambitions to ever become an actor or a somebody are destroyed by the fact that the world is obsessed with his extraordinary feature.

It was a bit repetitive but it was short and pretty mindless so I guess I'd say if you're curious about these kind of things to see it. Hearing good things led to my look into it and while it's not really great (talking head segments with 'experts' aren't really that informative) it's at least a little bit out of the ordinary.

[DavidSeven]

Your last three ratings have all pleased me.

See, we're not so different after all.

Probably would have rated all three a little higher in a former life. My scale skews lower these days, but yeah, I liked all three very much.

[Bosco B Thug]

You know what's usually awful? Old movie trailers. They say the film's title like 50 times, there's no sense of pacing, tone is all over the place... really just horrible to watch for the most part. Totally. Old movie trailers baffle me. Some of them are so boring and long and, right, pacing and a lot of them give away the whole movie.


My Summer of Love is worth checking out. Ooh, I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about this one. A strange, ineluctably small and "indie-ish" little movie that seems primed for obscurity, if it didn't have Paddy Considine and a delectable Emily Blunt in full lesbian nookie-mode (not to be all objectify-y or anything).

I had never even heard of it until one night about two years ago a group of several kids (me included) decided to make a movie night out of it merely off of the recommendation of the token "obscure indie movie"-inclined kid. Definitely not movie night material, but I think I did like it. I found something fascinating about it and its caustic, nasty tone and corrosive character story. I'd say the ending worked for me, I remember it the most.


Let's talk about lead actor/director partnerships that last much of a career or for a few pictures (bearing in mind that many directors have a ton of stock actors who they repeatedly use)... and some of the one's that aren't spoken about as frequently.

Any others?

Koji Yakusho - Kiyoshi Kurosawa
Warren Oates - Monte Hellman
Michael Moriarty - Larry Cohen

So much awesomeness typed just right now, my fingers are tingling.

[Winston*]

I was watching Hell House and then I was like "Y'know what? I don't think I feel like feeling really angry at the moment" so I turned it off and played videogames.

[Boner M]

Wow, Forbidden Lies is the most compelling and entertaining doco I've seen in ages. Dunno why I missed it on its theatrical run. Kinda like F For Fake... but for real! Don't miss it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

My Summer of Love is worth checking out.

*remembers Emily Blunt*

I agree!

[dreamdead]

*remembers Emily Blunt*

I agree!

I keep confusing this title with that 5 hour, similarly titled film and retreating from the prospect of viewing it, but now that the Blunt connection has been jogged, I think it's time to queue this one up.

[balmakboor]

not sure how stringent you meant the music video bgs to be...but I typically think of these directors as new gen.

Rob Zombie

Yes. I find him very interesting. If I actually had time right now to write a director profile, he is who I would have chosen for that American Cinema Redux project.

[balmakboor]

the rape sequence :eek:

When I first came to Bergman I was experiencing a crisis of faith. I found his films barely survivable. Perhaps later in life they'll contain less potency.

Crisis of faith. That's one crisis I'll never have to face. I would think though that, if anything, Bergman's work would grow more potent later in life.

[balmakboor]

I love me my negative capability... I wish in Ordet... she had been in a coma and not dead prior to the resurrection.

I think Ordet leaves the door wide open for that very reading. Dreyer was struggling with his faith -- or so I've read anyway -- and crafted an ending that both believers and non-believers could appreciate.

Keep in mind that medical science in those times even led to people being accidently buried alive.

[Boner M]

Weekend:

Le Boucher
Suburbia (1984)
The Edge of Heaven
I Am Cuba

[Mysterious Dude]

Speaking as a non-believer, I couldn't appreciate Ordet's ending at all. I would have almost liked the movie without it.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Weekend
The Silence
Cries and Whispers
Mon Oncle
Lucifer Rising
Maybe something in theatres, probably Harold and Kumar 2, Iron man or Maman est chez le coiffeur

[Duncan]

I think you've got to be a pretty big fan of Fear and Trembling to like Ordet's ending. It makes a lot of sense in that context. At least, it does to me.

[Rowland]

Weekend:

Iron Man
Southland Tales
Sleuth (an acquaintance won't stop asking me about this, so she's basically forcing me to watch it just to shut her up)
Some of The Office (S2) and Golden Girls (S2)

[Melville]

I love me my negative capability... I wish in Ordet... she had been in a coma and not dead prior to the resurrection.
I've heard some bad ideas in my time, but that's the baddest idea that ever badded. The ending is already an exemplar of negative capability. Keats would have loved it, I'm sure.


I think you've got to be a pretty big fan of Fear and Trembling to like Ordet's ending. It makes a lot of sense in that context. At least, it does to me.
I hadn't read Fear and Trembling when I first saw and loved Ordet, but I agree that the two depict Christian faith in the same way: as absolute faith even in the face of the contradictory.

[balmakboor]

I've heard some bad ideas in my time, but that's the baddest idea that ever badded.

I disagree. It actually makes perfect sense. I imagine all so-called miracles have just such an explanation. To a believer, such a thing is a confirmation of faith. To a non-believer, it's something to laugh about. I think Dreyer was playing it both ways.

[Yxklyx]

Weekend:

El Dorado
Bus 174

[Spinal]

My weekend will consist of going to the Oregon Shakespeare Festival in Ashland and seeing a few plays. Might watch Germany Year Zero today. I have The Golden Compass and Cloverfield on the way from Netflix, though I probably won't get to them until Sunday night or Monday.

[Watashi]

Weekend:

Iron Motherfucking Man

That is all.

[Sycophant]

The Savages... I liked it. Seems like most around here hated it.

::shrug::Yeah, I wouldn't go so far as hate. There were parts of it I really liked, but ultimately found it pretty much shrug-worthy.

[balmakboor]

Weekend:

Iron Motherfucking Man

That is all.

Well, the reviews sure are good. Too bad I've never even heard of Iron Man -- the character that is. Is it some new Marvel character? Or some old as the hills Marvel character? Is it even a Marvel character? (If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm not much of a superhero/comicbook fan.)

[balmakboor]

The only incarnation of Batman that I truly enjoyed was the old TV series. I imagine this admission has truly painted me as a summer movie lost cause. I know I found what Nolan did to the character dreadfully boring. Maybe his next one will work for me.

[Sycophant]

I liked Batman Begins a great deal. But nevertheless.

Bale's Batman < West's Batman

[Watashi]

Well, the reviews sure are good. Too bad I've never even heard of Iron Man -- the character that is. Is it some new Marvel character? Or some old as the hills Marvel character? Is it even a Marvel character? (If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm not much of a superhero/comicbook fan.)
Iron Man has been around for a long time. Along with Spiderman and the Hulk, he's Marvel's most popular superhero.

[balmakboor]

I liked Batman Begins a great deal. But nevertheless.

Bale's Batman < West's Batman

When I was like 8 years old, my parents forbid me to watch Batman -- too violent they said. I'd always talk my sitter into letting me watch it and it really felt like I was getting away with something. My favorite episode now is when Batman goes surfing and all he changes is the shorts part of his costume into swim trunks.

[balmakboor]

Iron Man has been around for a long time. Along with Spiderman and the Hulk, he's Marvel's most popular superhero.

I'll have to check it out. I do like Spiderman a lot.

[origami_mustache]

Yes. I find him very interesting. If I actually had time right now to write a director profile, he is who I would have chosen for that American Cinema Redux project.

Yeah, I actually liked his version of Halloween, and I remember you mentioning you did as well. I think he is more interesting than a lot of people give him credit for.

Weekend:
Ulysses' Gaze
Umberto D

[MadMan]

Weekend:

TCM Viewings

*The Naked Spur(1953)
*Blacula(1972)

And that's pretty much it, seeing as studying for finals and last minute homework will occupy the rest of my time.

[Spinal]

I liked Batman Begins a great deal. But nevertheless.

Bale's Batman < West's Batman

Keaton's Batman > all. Never saw Clooney's.

[Spinal]

The Firemen's Ball (Forman, 1967) 43

You are out of your mind.