28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Raiders]

Yeah, Friday Night is one of the most sublime films I have ever seen.

A la Spinal, I will pimp myself: http://match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=1289

[Yxklyx]

Related to the recent Up discussion, with Apted responding:

“Q. To what extent are the logistics and rhythms of your life dictated by the demands of that very first project more than 40 years ago, and does it go beyond 56? Is there a point where you say that’s it.
“A. I’ve never had any plans to shut that down. I always worried is it going to get boring, and I found that it wasn’t. I suppose the big test was really “28 Up.” One is, the physical changes started reducing seriously. You know, 7 … 14 … 21 … oh, my goodness, look what’s happening to them. Twenty-eight, that physical thing wasn’t so operational, and yet the film is more compelling, I think, than any of the ones before it. I found that the kind of emotional geography of the series is richer than just the physical geography of it, so I never thought it would get boring and it hasn’t. It got richer. Got harder but it’s got richer. I suppose the only real reason I’d shut it down is if enough of them pulled out, and then I would spend my whole time trying to explain why they had. It’s always a worry for me, how many are going to do it. There’s never any guarantee. And it does fluctuate. I lost two forever. One at 21 and one at 28 — not lost in a deceased sense but lost. You know other people have dropped out then come back. I’m now preparing 56, and I may well lose someone else in it, but that would be the only reason I’d stop, if so many pulled out that it would kind of somehow make it all irrelevant. Because it’s the counterpointing and the contrasts that’s some of the richness of it, and to lose that, I think, is to lose one of my aces in the hand.”

[Spinal]

As far as I know, none of the Up subjects have died yet. That will certainly be upsetting when it happens.

[Boner M]

As far as I know, none of the Up subjects have died yet. That will certainly be upsetting when it happens.
W/o reading the prior posts, I thought you were referring to...

http://davisdunavin.files.wordpress.c om/2011/01/up52.jpeg

[Spinal]

No, that won't be upsetting. That will be sweet relief.

[Yxklyx]

I hope that when one dies they won't like show their gravestone or anything like that. :sad: Probably it would be best at the end of the film to just have an "in memory of..." credit and leave it at that.

[Spinal]

One thing I admire about the Up films is how open they are about how much the subjects dread it.

[Watashi]

Pixar's Up > Apted's Up

[B-side]

Harmony Korine's brilliant new short (http://www.proenzaschouler.com/special-projects/snowballs/snowballs-video), Snowballs. Eerie circus parody of Manifest Destiny with an unexpectedly humane ending.

[Qrazy]

I really liked Kazan's The Arrangement. It is not wholly successful and sure it's a little stylistically over loaded but that's part of the charm. And ultimately the film is chock full of scenes featuring genuine emotional and psychological honesty. It's sort of a cross between Malle's The Fire Within, Perry's The Swimmer with perhaps a dash of Ray's Bigger than Life for good measure. All in all 60's films about suburban ennui really put contemporary offerings such as American Beauty, Revolutionary Road and The Ice Storm to shame. I read a few reviews which were critical of the film's criticisms of big business and the advertising industry. The general feeling seemed to be that the film's angle on these issues is canned and cliche even by 60's standards. I don't really think that's the case but more importantly I think that misses the point. The commentary on big business here is merely a spring board to dive into the psychology of a certain individual. Is he insane? Or is it the world that's insane? Again, even this is besides the point. What's interesting is not how Kirk Douglas's character got to this point or how we should categorize him but the way he perceives the world now that he's here. And this perception is fractured and muddled yet also clear. He conflates the past with the present but in doing so finds courses of action which bring him some momentary emotional appeasement even as he continues to spiral out of control. This is a film which attempts to cover a lot of ground in a relatively short runtime and so certain moments may have benefited with a little more room to breathe, but all in all, it's a very interesting work. Certainly my favorite of Kazan's last three features.

Moments to watch for...

1. The scene where Douglas's character states that he's 'Going away'.
2. The father sitting on the porch after Douglas says something hurtful to him.
3. The husband and wife in bed together.

[B-side]

To Sleep with Anger is shaky stuff. Burnett is an entirely mediocre technician. Nothing to do with his small budgets. He just has no eye, and his mise en scène is thoroughly unremarkable. Jost has even smaller budgets and does much more interesting things with staging and framing. The premise is terrific, and Glover is perfect, but this is certainly an intermittently silly film. When the father said to the son not to treat them like slaves, I cringed a little. There are more bad lines, but that one really sticks out like a sore thumb. It is occasionally menacing, mostly toward the beginning of Harry's arrival. It's also hardly boring and the final act is appropriately darkly comedic, but I can't say I wasn't disappointed.

[Grouchy]

I've read the novel The Arrangement, also by Kazan. Very good stuff. I'd like to see how it fit into movie form.

[Raiders]

Wow, you seem to really just gloss over the film's rich and wonderful study of these characters, dismissing all of Burnett's careful work in constructing the menace, and outright later sadness, of Glover's demon by casting off a few dead-ear lines. It's a film that for me, absolutely shames much of what Spike Lee or other such filmmakers attempt when they try and depict the awkwardness of many African Americans attempting to assimilate themselves in "white, middle-class culture." Burnett essentially rails against the notions that black culture must involve hip-hop, gangs, 'hoods, or ethnic stereotypes; his family isn't far removed from the Cosbys. He also is extremely successful at attaching this family to a larger circle (an indefinite one I would surmise as the family is but a small picture or a larger system) and creating within the family the intense temporal struggles of the different generations; the way he subtly has characters constantly remark on the past at a whim, the way he fills the elderly couple's house with remnants and photos of the past. That temporal struggle is the heart of the film; Burnett carefully realizes that families in general and specifically in his view contemporary black families, are often still terrorized by the past. These characters don't just suddenly spring into view but are largely products of events and history we never even see. Or how about the way Burnett brings in the old folklore, the curses, voodoo and obscure references that hint at the way that no matter how you want to present yourself and family, there is a cultural history that lingers and follows, like a lonely demon coming in from the cold.

You also rail against Burnett's formal techniques, but you don't even mention the editing which throughout the film links the different generations at different locations; most specifically when the film will cut between a church or religious moment and Harry, with his old values and suppressed views of family dynamics, spirituality and conduct. His presence is obviously metaphorical, but Burnett nonetheless is able to make in him a full-fledged character--well, maybe not the right word, rather he is a well-rounded undefinable force. He clearly brings with him the menace, the unease and the buried past and seems to directly cause the tension, the writhing and the pain that occurs in the film. He is the allure of the old gender rules, he is the genial and funny remembrances and he is also the pain and the menace of clinging too tightly to trinkets and history. Ultimately, the film comes to no real resolution and never has much narrative. It's episodic and almost every scene feels unresolved and wavers between menacing and funny; and in the end we must remember that Harry, with all his insinuations and his gleefully devious presence, does nothing to anybody. I think in the end, Burnett manages to make us not only question Harry's identity, but whether he ever did anything at all or rather, did his mere showing up simply bring forth the rage, the gender roles and indentities, the pulling of past and present and create our perception of him as a monster when in fact, the monster was never him but everyone else. It is a film that revolves entirely in and around old folklore, past customs, traditions and so forth, but contains almost not a single bit of real mystical hokum. A magnificent balancing act and a truly wonderful film.

[Ezee E]

One thing I admire about the Up films is how open they are about how much the subjects dread it.
I think I only made it to 21 Up. Can you expand on that?

[Yxklyx]

I think I only made it to 21 Up. Can you expand on that?

A few of them have stated in the later films how they sort of dread their meetings with Apted - as they have to bring up things from the past 7 years that normal people would tend to forget or leave behind. Their lives are under much more scrutiny than typical people. For instance, one person had to bow out in 42 Up because he was going through a divorce and his mom died.

I also think the films have had more of an impact on these people's lives than the director thinks.

[Ezee E]

A few of them have stated in the later films how they sort of dread their meetings with Apted - as they have to bring up things from the past 7 years that normal people would tend to forget or leave behind. Their lives are under much more scrutiny than typical people. For instance, one person had to bow out in 42 Up because he was going through a divorce and his mom died.

I also think the films have had more of an impact on these people's lives than the director thinks.
Gotcha.

Well, that's for sure. Ebert has a good essay on the Up Series which got me interested in it to begin with. I believe he mentioned that they all became mini-celebrities in England. Problem was, I watched 7, 14, and 21 all together, and decided I'd have to wait a while for 28.

Thing is, even at the age of 7, you could see where they were heading. That's scary to me.

[Ivan Drago]

Criterion newsletter hint this month. . .anyone have any ideas?

http://i6.cmail3.com/ei/r/F0/63E/ED4/012755/wackkydrunkdog.jpg

[elixir]

Two things that caught my eye when I was looking at flyers on a board at my school.

1) The two movies playing this weekend on campus are X-Men: First Class and Jane Eyre. Both of the posters awkwardly feature Michael Fassbender's head in them. I find this funny.

2) A recently discovered (apparently?) Kieslowski film "The Photograph" is screening this weekend (with a lecture by a Polish film scholar afterwards). Does anyone know anything about this? I'm pretty excited because he is one of my favorite directors.

[MadMan]

Criterion newsletter hint this month. . .anyone have any ideas?

http://i6.cmail3.com/ei/r/F0/63E/ED4/012755/wackkydrunkdog.jpgIts a drunk dog that almost looks like a bear. Weird. So no idea.

[Yxklyx]

Criterion newsletter hint this month. . .anyone have any ideas?



Re-releasing Lost Weekend? Leaving Las Vegas?

[Qrazy]

Criterion newsletter hint this month. . .anyone have any ideas?

http://i6.cmail3.com/ei/r/F0/63E/ED4/012755/wackkydrunkdog.jpg

http://www.jameshyman.com/blog/archives/big%20wednesday.jpg

"Matt Johnson: I don't wanna be a star. Have my picture in magazines, have a bunch of kids looking up to me. I'm a drunk, Bear, a screw up. I just surf cause its good to go out and ride with your friends. I don't even have that anymore."

[Kurosawa Fan]

My piece of shit dumpy town's film festival lineup:

Features:
Another Earth
Another Year
Attack the Block
Beginners
A Better Life
The Concert
The Future
The Guard
The Illusionist
Life Above All
My Afternoons With Margueritte
Myth of the American Sleepover
Of Gods and Men
Red Hill
13 Assassins
The Way Back
Win, Win

Docs:
Benda Bellili
Buck
Cave of Forgotten Dreams
The Interrupters
Where Soldiers Come From


I'm going to attempt to see the bolded films, but I doubt I'll get to them all. It runs from November 2nd through the 6th, and I'll be pretty swamped with school at that point.

[B-side]

Wow, you seem to really just gloss over the film's rich and wonderful study of these characters, dismissing all of Burnett's careful work in constructing the menace, and outright later sadness, of Glover's demon by casting off a few dead-ear lines.

Well, no, I never mentioned it, but I never dismissed it. Glover's character is the only one who is really compelling. His interactions with his old flame are the highlight of the film; eliciting a wonderful tension. The same can't be said of any of the rest of the film. Like I said, I love the premise of the film, and some of the interactions as a result of his presence are good, but Burnett's mediocre form does nothing for them. The film is a fairly compelling stage play.

[Rowland]

Why is this movie that I've never heard of called Sarah's Key taking up two of my arthouse's screening rooms, and for three consecutive weeks, no less? Let's see, it's based on an allegedly best-selling novel, involves a modern investigation into the legacy of the holocaust, produced by the Weinstein Company, respectable but only mildly enthusiastic critical accolades... ehh, thanks but no thanks. Not even a David Nusair rave (http://reelfilm.com/mini115.htm#sarah) will drag me to this one.

[Rowland]

My piece of shit dumpy town's film festival lineup:.That's far better than anything Buffalo, NY can muster. I've only been inspired to attend one screening at my city's film festival ever, and that was for the restored Metropolis, which was worth it.

[Winston*]

My piece of shit dumpy town's film festival lineup:

Features:
Another Earth
Another Year
Attack the Block
Beginners
A Better Life
The Concert
The Future
The Guard
The Illusionist
Life Above All
My Afternoons With Margueritte
Myth of the American Sleepover
Of Gods and Men
Red Hill
13 Assassins
The Way Back
Win, Win

Docs:
Benda Bellili
Buck
Cave of Forgotten Dreams
The Interrupters
Where Soldiers Come From


I'm going to attempt to see the bolded films, but I doubt I'll get to them all. It runs from November 2nd through the 6th, and I'll be pretty swamped with school at that point.

The Guard is better than The Illusionist IMO.

[Raiders]

Well, no, I never mentioned it, but I never dismissed it. Glover's character is the only one who is really compelling. His interactions with his old flame are the highlight of the film; eliciting a wonderful tension. The same can't be said of any of the rest of the film. Like I said, I love the premise of the film, and some of the interactions as a result of his presence are good, but Burnett's mediocre form does nothing for them. The film is a fairly compelling stage play.

I just don't comprehend how you view the film, but so it is. I exhausted myself with the last post.

[Kurosawa Fan]

The Guard is better than The Illusionist IMO.

I very nearly bolded that one because of Gleeson. I know nothing about the film. They haven't posted a schedule yet, and obviously a lot will depend on what times work for me. I'll keep The Guard in mind. Thanks.

[Spinal]

After all these years of hearing about it, I have come to believe that KF actually attends something called My Piece of Shit Dumpy Town's Film Festival.

[MadMan]

After all these years of hearing about it, I have come to believe that KF actually attends something called My Piece of Shit Dumpy Town's Film Festival.Hah. At least his piece of shit dumpy town has a good film festival. Or has one, period.

[Boner M]

Not even a David Nusair rave (http://reelfilm.com/mini115.htm#sarah) will drag me to this one.
1 "Little doubt" per review!!! :pritch:

[Rowland]

1 "Little doubt" per review!!! :pritch:And yet only a mere 551 times over the span of his entire review catalog.

[Boner M]

Nusair has inspired me to use 'sensibility' less, so there's that going for him.

[Yxklyx]

The two-week 47th Chicago International Film Festival is huge with over 180 films from 50 countries. 50 first time directors as well. I'd post the films here but I can't find a comprehensive list in text format. Not too many films from people most here know but I did notice a new Lynne Ramsay film.

[baby doll]

Pixar's Up > Apted's UpThey both pale in comparison with Russ Meyer's Up!

[Kurosawa Fan]

After all these years of hearing about it, I have come to believe that KF actually attends something called My Piece of Shit Dumpy Town's Film Festival.

You should help me petition for a name change.

Here's the website for the festival, for anyone who cares:

http://www.riversidesaginawfilmfestiv al.org/

[Stay Puft]

Yo philosophe_rouge, you nay'd Love in the 2011 thread. Any thoughts? I've been looking into what to see at the Toronto After Dark film fest and had that one on my short list.

[elixir]

It's always interesting when I watch two films of wildly differing quality one after the other.

The Sound of Music is one of the most irritating films I've seen--saccharine and overly precious, awful songs, unnecessarily long. Blah.

Thankfully, after that I saw a wonderful film that is one of the best I've viewed all year, Il Posto. Man, talk about quietly devastating. But not exactly without hope either. It perfectly captures that awkward transition from adolescence into young adulthood, with all its trials of entering the workforce and trying to form a connection with a new love. Even what seems like an unnecessary diversion midway through the film reveals itself to be of vital importance to the main character and adds to the potency of the film's ending. This really got to me, I'm really quite taken with this film. Very highly recommended. What others films of the director (Olmi) is worth checking out?

And before those two, I finished up Terence Davies' filmography. The House of Mirth probably became my second favorite of his (behind The Long Day Closes), and while its atmosphere is quite different from the rest of his features, his textured camerawork and empathy for his protagonists are still definitely on display. A great lead performance and a killer of an ending shot (that the credits roll over). Society's a bitch, huh? Of Time and the City was alright, and the narration was hilariously bitter and awesomely bombastic, but I felt as if I was already forgetting it as I was watching it...it was enjoyable enough, but not really too memorable for me.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention that the girl in Il Posto is ridiculously cute. This is important. http://my.picresize.com/vault2/FA69MQJU6D.jpg

[B-side]

Manoel on the Island of Marvels (Raoul Ruiz, 1984) 9

:)

Thoughts?

[elixir]

:)

Thoughts?

I'm trying to gather them! I feel like I need to see it again to write about it a bit more intelligently, but I'll try.

Thought #1: This film needs a better print now. Criterion, please?

Okay, the thing is incredible I think. It's only my third Ruiz (Lisbon and Hypothesis being the other two). It's such a fascinating conflation of fate and choice, of the past and present...in which at once one decision can change a person's fate and yet certain things are inescapable (as in the first episode he keeps trying to stop the loss of a parent, but is never able to do so). It's also hilarious, I was always constantly smirking at some absurdity or subtle remark. Even with a shitty rip, it was visually stunning--especially his play with colors, I love the orange in the film, especially in the scenes with the kids playing that game (end of ep 2, beginning of ep 3). The film's narrative shifts from being easily coherent to one that is more elliptical, and similarly Manoel's whole situation seems to gradually become more complex as the film continues. I found the whole thing pretty exhilarating, and moments like Manoel flying, or seeing the shadows outside his room, or seeing his cousins escape in that wormhole of sorts left me elated. Then it becomes even more intriguing when Manoel becomes the narrator midway through and begins questioning the nature of his memory! These are my poorly formed thoughts.

[soitgoes...]

What others films of the director (Olmi) is worth checking out?
The other three I've seen of his (I fidanzati, The Crush and The Tree of Wooden Clogs) were all good, but they come nowhere close to Il posto.

[B-side]

I'm trying to gather them! I feel like I need to see it again to write about it a bit more intelligently, but I'll try.

Thought #1: This film needs a better print now. Criterion, please?

Okay, the thing is incredible I think. It's only my third Ruiz (Lisbon and Hypothesis being the other two). It's such a fascinating conflation of fate and choice, of the past and present...in which at once one decision can change a person's fate and yet certain things are inescapable (as in the first episode he keeps trying to stop the loss of a parent, but is never able to do so). It's also hilarious, I was always constantly smirking at some absurdity or subtle remark. Even with a shitty rip, it was visually stunning--especially his play with colors, I love the orange in the film, especially in the scenes with the kids playing that game (end of ep 2, beginning of ep 3). The film's narrative shifts from being easily coherent to one that is more elliptical, and similarly Manoel's whole situation seems to gradually become more complex as the film continues. I found the whole thing pretty exhilarating, and moments like Manoel flying, or seeing the shadows outside his room, or seeing his cousins escape in that wormhole of sorts left me elated. Then it becomes even more intriguing when Manoel becomes the narrator midway through and begins questioning the nature of his memory! These are my poorly formed thoughts.

The poor print on that is devastating, but I, like you, managed to rather enjoy it in spite of it. I'm glad you enjoyed it so much. You'll find that the nature of memory, and children playing games with reality, are recurring themes throughout his work. I'd recommend you check out Three Crowns of the Sailor and/or City of Pirates next.

[B-side]

In the long line of films I watch that nobody cares about, Mameluke is a good old fashioned epic romantic saga. The title means slave; more specifically a slave that fought in the military that seized control of the Egyptian sultanate in 1250, ruled until 1517, and remained powerful until massacred or dispersed by Mehemet Ali in 1811. Three kids -- a boy, his best friend and the girl he falls in love with after being abducted the first time -- are plucked from the comfort of Georgia where slavery was outlawed and sold into slavery elsewhere. The film has the characteristics of an American western: an initial rural setting, a "Cowboys and Indians" narrative complete with slavery and warrior training, and horses. It turns into a Soviet epic in the second half, with a Shakespearean romance of fate emboldened with incredible, striking colors. Rondeli's depiction of the slave owners is surprisingly ambivalent. The king of Egypt ends up seeming more like an aging man desperate to be a father. There's a very subtle deadpan humor about seeing human beings inspected in a street market for value right next to the likes of fruit. Eisenstein and Ford seem to both be pretty clear influences. Some screencaps below:

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/vlcsnap-2011-09-30-06h21m12s190_400x300.jpg
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/vlcsnap-2011-09-30-06h47m43s196_400x300.jpg
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/vlcsnap-2011-09-30-07h10m40s187_400x300.jpg
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/vlcsnap-2011-09-30-07h19m34s140_400x300.jpg
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/vlcsnap-2011-09-30-07h33m20s209_400x300.jpg
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/vlcsnap-2011-09-30-08h07m26s169_400x300.jpg

[Qrazy]

The other three I've seen of his (I fidanzati, The Crush and The Tree of Wooden Clogs) were all good, but they come nowhere close to Il posto.

Fidanzati comes somewhat close I think, but not quite to the same level. This is where Elixir should go next.

[B-side]

Eskiya - B

Hey, this looks pretty good. I don't think I've had any experience with Turkish cinema at all. This will most certainly be rectified soon.

[Raiders]

Il posto is exceptional; The Tree of Wooden Clogs is exceptionally boring.

[baby doll]

I saw Il posto a couple months ago, and while it was charming enough and features some striking location photography, I can't say that I was that impressed by it.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Yo philosophe_rouge, you nay'd Love in the 2011 thread. Any thoughts? I've been looking into what to see at the Toronto After Dark film fest and had that one on my short list.

A variety of reasons. it's one of my least favourite films I've seen this year and I've seen a lot of crap. Mostly it comes down to the fact that it looks like a beautiful but empty TV commercial. The images carry no weight at all.

I have a full review here:

http://www.soundonsight.org/fantasia-2011-love-lacks-depth/

The film has it's supporters, I am fairly certain one of the programmers at After Dark, said it was his favourite film at Fantasia.

[Qrazy]

Hey, this looks pretty good. I don't think I've had any experience with Turkish cinema at all. This will most certainly be rectified soon.

It's alright. I probably graded it more kindly than it deserves. It's a very unique crime film in that it really takes it's time and has a contemplative air about it. It gets a little silly and melodramatic in places though, especially near the very end. But all in all it's a pretty well done film and the lead actor/performance anchors the film strongly.

[Mara]

Idris Elba considered for next Bond. (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44732514/ns/today-entertainment/#.ToYjluyIU7o)

I don't even watch that series, and yet I'm all over this.

[MadMan]

Idris Elba considered for next Bond. (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44732514/ns/today-entertainment/#.ToYjluyIU7o)

I don't even watch that series, and yet I'm all over this.Man I sure hope so. He would be awesome in the role.

[MadMan]

The Sound of Music is one of the most irritating films I've seen--saccharine and overly precious, awful songs, unnecessarily long. Blah.This post is 100% correct :pritch:

[Raiders]

Wow, not a single post here (in the Upcoming forum) about 50/50? Granted, Rogen's presence is enough to make me want to stay away but the word-of-mouth is solid and I'm a sucker for JGL.

Nothing else is out at the multiplex I have much desire to see.

[Kiusagi]

Wow, not a single post here (in the Upcoming forum) about 50/50? Granted, Rogen's presence is enough to make me want to stay away but the word-of-mouth is solid and I'm a sucker for JGL.

Nothing else is out at the multiplex I have much desire to see.

I'm with you, I'm looking forward to 50/50. I think with Rogen perhaps taking a step back into the background (looks like a small step, but a step nonetheless) could make him a lot more tolerable. I remember liking him in 40 Year Old Virgin before I knew who he was.

Also, I'm surprised Dream House turned out as bad as it apparently did. It didn't look very good, but with Craig, Watts, and Weisz starring and Sheridan directing, I thought it might at least be somewhat worthwhile. But no, it's getting brutalized by the critics.

[EyesWideOpen]

This post is 100% correct :pritch:

boooo

[Yxklyx]

boooo

I love the first half of The Sound of Music. I love the music and the energy and everything else about it. The film suffers greatly in the second half though. First half 10/10 - Second half 6/10.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Idris Elba considered for next Bond. (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44732514/ns/today-entertainment/#.ToYjluyIU7o)

I don't even watch that series, and yet I'm all over this.

What.

Wait.

Wait, hold on.

WHAT.

[Ezee E]

Great casting. I really hope they just let him wallop a person. Unless I'm forgetting an episode of The Wire, I have yet to see him just beat the shit out of someone... Closest to it was ripping a door out of its frame on an episode of Luther.

[Glass Co.]

I am highly in favour of this. If he's saying that he doesn't want is race to define the role though, I have a feeling there might be similar media coverage just like his role in Thor. They better not ruin this, or I will personally kill Rupert Murdoch.

[Mysterious Dude]

The only thing I really hate about The Sound of Music is the puppet show. It stops the movie dead, and why'd they have to use such ugly puppets?

[[ETM]]

Elba has been in some weird crap across the pond... I had not even heard of "Obsessed" (2009), where Beyonce plays his wife, and Ali Larter, of all people, harasses him sexually at work. :confused:

[Irish]

I can't tell if you're joking or not. Aren't those puppets Punch & Judy?

[Irish]

If he's saying that he doesn't want is race to define the role though, I have a feeling there might be similar media coverage just like his role in Thor.

There would be enormous media coverage, dwarfing the comments about Thor. This is a media icon with a 50 year history, not an obscure supporting character from comic books & Norse mythology. There'd be a huge outcry, much bigger than the one surrounding Miles as the new alt-Spiderman.

The difference, though, between Thor & Bond is there's absolutely nothing about Bond that requires him to be white.

Unfortunately, I don't see this happening. Elba isn't bankable for a number of reasons, and only one of those reasons is his skin color (although that's a major one).

The other problem is that, last I heard, MGM is so broke they couldn't afford to release a Jame Bond cartoon, much less a feature.

This article reads like it was placed by a publicist; somebody lobbying on Elba's behalf. Not based on any kind of, well, reality.

[MadMan]

I'm still hoping they release one more Bond movie at least. Stupid MGM going broke.

PS: 1,000 pages. Wahoo :pritch:

[Mara]

;374933']Elba has been in some weird crap across the pond... I had not even heard of "Obsessed" (2009), where Beyonce plays his wife, and Ali Larter, of all people, harasses him sexually at work. :confused:

I remember trailers from that!

[Mara]

I can't tell if you're joking or not. Aren't those puppets Punch & Judy?

No, it's the lonely goatherd and his lady love! And a goat with too much eyeshadow.

[Mara]

I love the first half of The Sound of Music. I love the music and the energy and everything else about it. The film suffers greatly in the second half though. First half 10/10 - Second half 6/10.

This is pretty much correct. I find most of the music pretty fun, too.

[Irish]

Ahhh, right! Perhaps Isaac would enjoy a more modern version?

szRZvF0WTU8

[Ezee E]

There would be enormous media coverage, dwarfing the comments about Thor. This is a media icon with a 50 year history, not an obscure supporting character from comic books & Norse mythology. There'd be a huge outcry, much bigger than the one surrounding Miles as the new alt-Spiderman.

The difference, though, between Thor & Bond is there's absolutely nothing about Bond that requires him to be white.

Unfortunately, I don't see this happening. Elba isn't bankable for a number of reasons, and only one of those reasons is his skin color (although that's a major one).

The other problem is that, last I heard, MGM is so broke they couldn't afford to release a Jame Bond cartoon, much less a feature.

This article reads like it was placed by a publicist; somebody lobbying on Elba's behalf. Not based on any kind of, well, reality.
Bond doesn't need to be bankable. Daniel Craig was an unknown before he became Bond.

[number8]

Great casting. I really hope they just let him wallop a person. Unless I'm forgetting an episode of The Wire, I have yet to see him just beat the shit out of someone... Closest to it was ripping a door out of its frame on an episode of Luther.

Dude! You've never seen Ultraviolet? This is where I first saw Elba. He beats the shit out of people there.

[Irish]

Bond doesn't need to be bankable. Daniel Craig was an unknown before he became Bond.

Let's talk when Elba lands a few roles in Steven Spielberg movies (Craig might not have been opening films, but his profile pre-Bond was much higher than Elba's is now.)

There's one black actor who could open a big action movie in the United States. His name is Will Smith. All others need not apply. (It sucks, but that's the way it is).

Bond doesn't need to be bankable? George Lazenby and Timothy Dalton say otherwise.

[[ETM]]

Irish, you're pushing questionable (at best) opinions as facts again. Nothing will come of it... again.

[DavidSeven]

No one even remembers that Daniel Craig was in Munich. In terms of celebrity, he was an absolute nobody before Bond. Quite certain he got the part based on L4yer Cake alone, and the general public didn't see that.

[Irish]

;374962']Irish, you're pushing questionable (at best) opinions as facts again. Nothing will come of it... again.

A few years ago I read an interesting article about the casting on the movie Hitch. I can't remember where, but I want to say the New Yorker. Anyway, they needed to find someone to play Will Smith's girlfriend. They couldn't cast a white actress, because of obvious racial politics. They couldn't cast a black woman, because then the picture might be perceived as "black" and white audiences would stay away. That limited the safe choices to Latina or Asian. They cast Eva Mendes.

I thought about that when Danny Glover was drumming up interest around him being cast as Spiderman. I thought it was cool. For some reason, I could totally see him in the role. I knew it would never happen though. Partially because of the fear white audiences would stay away, but also because casting a black man as your lead makes every other casting decision a loaded question, for Hitch style reasons.

There's a small number of black actors who can open movies. In the 90s, there were 3: Will Smith, Martin Lawrence, and Wesley Snipes. (By open I mean bring in impressive weekend box office without the help of a white male costar.) These days, only Will Smith is left. White audiences will see him in just about anything.

Do ever wonder why there's rarely two black speaking roles in the same project? That's not an accident.

About six months ago there was an article in the LA Times about authors complaining that their book covers had been "white washed." Books with minority heroes, regardless of genre, suddenly became white on the dust jacket. Why? Because the publishers know that white consumers don't buy books with black people on the cover.

As for Elba, he's bounced back and forth between the UK and the US for years but outside Wire fans, Thor was probably the first time most people saw him. And that was an incredibly slight role. For Bond, he'd be a hard sell even disregarding the racial issue (which would be massive around a character like Bond. Good god, just look at the flap over Ultimate Spiderman. And that was about a comic book that sells ~1 million copies a year).

Racial politics in the US is deeply fucked up. The entertainment industry is a reflection of that. You only need to glance at the cast lists for nearly every high profile movie and tv show coming out of LA, put two and two together, and know that Elba, or any other minority actor, doesn't have a chance in hell of being the next Bond.

But hey, just my opinion and it's not based on anything, right? I eagerly await your massive list of black actors who can open action films in the United States.

You can follow that up with a list of actors over 35 who have opened tentpole movies in the US while never having been given a leading role or a significant supporting role in a major motion picture.

Take your time, E. I'll wait while you scour IMDb. I'm eager to be educated, because you have so obviously considered this much more carefully than I have.

[Ezee E]

There's one black actor who could open a big action movie in the United States. His name is Will Smith. All others need not apply. (It sucks, but that's the way it is).

http://images.askmen.com/galleries/men/denzel-washington/pictures/denzel-washington-picture-1.jpg

Right here. And I didn't have to check IMDB. Go figure.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Bond doesn't need to be bankable? George Lazenby and Timothy Dalton say otherwise.

Pierce Brosnan is/was bankable? :confused:

[Winston*]

Sean Connery was bankable?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Roger Moore was bankable?

[Winston*]

Roger Moore was bankable?

Actually he was. Probably the only bankable actor to play Bond.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Actually he was. Probably the only bankable actor to play Bond.

At the box office? Because there's a big difference between pulling in ratings with TV series' like The Saint, and filling a movie theater.

[Winston*]

At the box office? Because there's a big difference between pulling in ratings with TV series' like The Saint, and filling a movie theater.

You're right KF. I concede the point.

[EyesWideOpen]

Danny Glover would make an interesting Spider-Man.

[Winston*]

Danny Glover would make an interesting Spider-Man.

"I'm too old for this suit".

Ugh. Winston* kill yourself.

[Raiders]

I wavered in my interest to the central character and certainly to the confusing narrative about a missing cop and his gun, but Johnnie To's Mad Detective is perfectly directed. Perfect.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I wavered in my interest to the central character and certainly to the confusing narrative about a missing cop and his gun, but Johnnie To's Mad Detective is perfectly directed. Perfect.

YES.

[Yxklyx]

Infernal Affairs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Departed

[Irish]

I wavered in my interest to the central character and certainly to the confusing narrative about a missing cop and his gun, but Johnnie To's Mad Detective is perfectly directed. Perfect.

I haven't seen everything in the period but seems like To was firing on all cylinders for about 5-7 years there.

[Raiders]

I haven't seen everything in the period but seems like To was firing on all cylinders for about 5-7 years there.

Only seen this and Exiled from that period (only other I have seen at all is The Mission). I'm going to quickly go on a binge here soon though.

[B-side]

Has anyone else seen Breaking News? I've only seen it and Vengeance from To. The former being much better.

[Irish]

Pierce Brosnan is/was bankable? :confused:

Are you honestly asking that question or are you just messing around?

At the time of his eventual casting, Brosnan was a firmly established actor in both American tv and movies. (Hell, they wanted him for Bond in 1985 on the basis of Remington Steele alone, but he got screwed by NBC.)

A lot of people here are Elba fans. I am too. But he's absolutely unknown to the public. That's not a guy you pick to carry a $200 million dollar movie (while hoping for $400 mil box office).

This is without thinking about the racial issue at all, which is most likely to be an ugly third rail to this kind of project.

My point with Lazenby etc: You go for a Bond with a shallow following and the audience half heartedly shows up. Those two guys have some of the lowest, if not the lowest, takes at the box office in the franchise's history. And they got fired pretty damned quickly. The producers don't want to have to introduce a new Bond every 3 years. They want a guy who is going to sign for multiple movies and carry 4 or more over a 10 year period.

[Ezee E]

I don't know if an actor from Mrs. Doubtfire and The Lawnmower Man is someone that I'd have in mind for Bond if I"m looking for bankable.

[MadMan]

Really in the end if they keep making Bonds Craig is probably good to go for at least two-three more, so its really all a moot point anyways. Waste of a good 1,000th page so far, folks :P

[MadMan]

Infernal Affairs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The DepartedTo me its the other way around, which reminds me that I should bump my "Original v. Remake" thread that I had fun making.

[Irish]

Right here. And I didn't have to check IMDB. Go figure.

Oh good, you named one guy. Go ahead and take a look at his IMDb profile and you'll see he's cast opposite a high profile white actor more than half the time.

Not sure he can open anymore. The closest thing he's done to what we're taking about it is stuff like Man on Fire and Book of Eli, both of which had mediocre domestic box office.

He's done a fair amount of genre stuff but he's never been an action star. Try again. And don't say Morgan Freeman.

[Irish]

I don't know if an actor from Mrs. Doubtfire and The Lawnmower Man is someone that I'd have in mind for Bond if I"m looking for bankable.

Remington Steele is on Hulu. Watch 10 minutes of any episode and you'll see why everyone thinks "James Bond" as soon as Brosnon walks in the room. The show got middlin' ratings, but it was high profile and got a ton of press, mostly because Brosnan was a newcomer and managed to steal all the attention away from costar Stephanie Zimbalist, who was supposed to be the star.

Doubtfire was a huge success.

[Irish]

Only seen this and Exiled from that period (only other I have seen at all is The Mission). I'm going to quickly go on a binge here soon though.

Oh, see Vengeance. It's worth it for the opening 20 minutes alone. Post about it if you do, because I'd be very interested in your take on it.

[ledfloyd]

people either need to stop engaging irish in arguments or start kicking into my advil fund.

[MadMan]

people either need to stop engaging irish in arguments or start kicking into my advil fund.Well I've done the first thing, but I can't really afford the second one. Sorry....

[Irish]

people either need to stop engaging irish in arguments or start kicking into my advil fund.

:lol: ran out of rep today but I owe you a +1.

[Qrazy]

Has anyone else seen Breaking News? I've only seen it and Vengeance from To. The former being much better.

Yes, Breaking News is a decent second tier work from him. Neither of those is near his best output though... certainly watch more. In no particular order just because I don't feel like ranking right now but these are his best.

Mad Detective
Sparrow
Election 1
Election 2
Exiled
The Mission
PTU
Throwdown

[number8]

Pairing a leading black man with a female is hard? It's James Bond. Just have him fuck a rainbow of women and put all of them on the poster.

[baby doll]

Infernal Affairs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The DepartedThat's not saying much. Tight, unpretentious genre picture > bloated self parody.

[Rowland]

I've only seen a handful of To, which I'd rank as Exiled being the best followed closely by Mad Detective, with Vengeance being more problematic but still dazzlingly directed, and lastly Breaking News which left me kinda indifferent.

[Watashi]

I want to see Take Shelter so bad.

[Skitch]

Irish, you make me laugh. Mostly because I think you really believe what you're saying is true.

[Irish]

Pairing a leading black man with a female is hard? It's James Bond. Just have him fuck a rainbow of women and put all of them on the poster.

Then your movie becomes "too ethnic" and you risk alienating white audiences.

Did you think it was just happenstance that you never see white women paired with ethnic men in mainstream movies and tv shows?

Take something like Pelican Brief. Two of the best looking performers in the country in their prime, at the height of their careers, and they barely give each other a glance. Do you think that plays the same way with different racial dynamics? If the two leads had been white, do you think producers would have spun the story differently?

Take Kiss the Girls and Along Came a Spider. Middle age man and comely young woman ... Same thing. They behave like automatons.

But you look over at other movies with different dynamics, you see plenty middle aged guys sexing up younger women. The only difference is ... They're both white. (eg Sean Connery, Michael Douglas, and Jack Nicholson opposite Catherine Zeta Jones, Demi Moore, and Helen Hunt, respectively).

That's not an accident, and it's not because minority actors aren't capable or interested in performing those kind of roles.

Glover wants Spidey and I'm sure Elba would love to be Bond. They won't get the chance because nobody green lighting this shit is going to risk their job by taking a massive gamble on marketplace perceptions.

[Llopin]

Johnnie To film rankings? Yehey.

Exiled > The Mission > Election 2 > Mad Detective > Election > Running Out of Time > PTU > Breaking News > Justice, My Foot! > Vengeance > The Heroic Trio

I'd like to see more of his romcoms/HK extravaganzas. I didn't find Breaking News to be that compelling besides the first scene, which is expertly shot. It certainly isn't one of his most impressive efforts.

[Ezee E]

people either need to stop engaging irish in arguments or start kicking into my advil fund.
Strong point.

I apologize.

Also... Tyler Perry. :lol: And yes, Doubtfire was a success, but not for Brosnan's 12 minutes of screentime on it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Remington Steele is on Hulu. Watch 10 minutes of any episode and you'll see why everyone thinks "James Bond" as soon as Brosnon walks in the room. The show got middlin' ratings, but it was high profile and got a ton of press, mostly because Brosnan was a newcomer and managed to steal all the attention away from costar Stephanie Zimbalist, who was supposed to be the star.

Doubtfire was a huge success.

Your definition of the word "bankable" must be a lot different than mine. A TV show that received moderate ratings at best and a bit part as the foil (who spends the entire film being abused, completely against type for Bond) in a hugely successful movie doesn't translate into someone who can carry a $100-200 million movie.

Brosnan was successful because Bond is an established franchise. The first Dalton Bond, The Living Daylights (1987), cleared $50 million, which puts it right in the middle as far as Bond box office receipts, ahead of A View to Kill (1985) and just shy of For Your Eyes Only (1981) and Never Say Never Again (1983). When the public decided they didn't care for Dalton, they voiced that opinion by not showing up for his second go. Outside of Lazenby, once the franchise had been solidified by Connery, a new Bond's first film was successful every time, despite "bankability," which I still maintain you're stretching the definition of pretty thin.

You can argue race, and that's something I would probably agree would be a tough sell to the American public, but your assertion that Bond has to be played by a bankable star is incorrect.

[Russ]

Sterne / Stars (Konrad Wolf, 1959) ****

Masterpiece.

A great film that I'll be championing for quite some time: an East German/Bulgarian co-production that valiantly presents a humanized portrait of wartime relationships juxtaposed against the backdrop of Auschwitz-themed wartime atrocities. A compassionate look at the sympathizers (of all nationalities) involved in German occupied Bulgaria as Jews are being held for tansportation to Poland. A suppressed romance between a sensitive German corporal (Jürgen Frohriep) and a brave Jewish prisoner (terrific performance by Sasha Krusharska) is at the center of this devastating account of inhuman injustice. The evolution of Frohriep's character from indifferent participant to sympathetic confidant to willing conspirator is both courageous and remarkable. But here's the icing on the cake: this is an absolutely amazing job by East German director Konrad Wolf -- including some incredible long tracking shots, beautifully atmosperhic and poetic scenes, expert use of close-ups and deep focus -- why haven't I ever heard of this guy? And for his effort, Wolf was nominated for the 1959 Cannes Palme d'Or (he won the Grand Prize of the Jury).

[Irish]

Your definition of the word "bankable" must be a lot different than mine. A TV show that received moderate ratings at best and a bit part as the foil (who spends the entire film being abused, completely against type for Bond) in a hugely successful movie doesn't translate into someone who can carry a $100-200 million movie.

Brosnan was successful because Bond is an established franchise. The first Dalton Bond, The Living Daylights (1987), cleared $50 million, which puts it right in the middle as far as Bond box office receipts, ahead of A View to Kill (1985) and just shy of For Your Eyes Only (1981) and Never Say Never Again (1983). When the public decided they didn't care for Dalton, they voiced that opinion by not showing up for his second go. Outside of Lazenby, once the franchise had been solidified by Connery, a new Bond's first film was successful every time, despite "bankability," which I still maintain you're stretching the definition of pretty thin.

You can argue race, and that's something I would probably agree would be a tough sell to the American public, but your assertion that Bond has to be played by a bankable star is incorrect.

Take a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bond_(film_series)#Box_o ffice_results

The series was in decline when Dalton was hired (Moore was pushing 60 toward the end of his run). He got a small bump from being the new guy, but then it declined again with his second outing. Lazenby's turn was the worst performing Bond up to that time.

I'm using bankable to mean someone who's known to the public and has got a proven track record as a lead in and out of the industry. Elba doesn't have that at all. His biggest American project was as a supporting player with less than 10 minutes of screen time and mostly notable because he was a black guy playing a Norse god.

Were any Bonds as bankable (in terms of guaranteed return) as a Will Smith or a Tom Cruise? No, but that's not what I've been arguing. The guys who succeeded in the role all had strong public visibility and some kind of track record as leads. Elba doesn't. Even if you reduce "bankable" to mean pure name recognition, Elba doesn't meet the criteria.

On top of that there's the racial issue, which exists even if people don't want to acknowledge it. It's not an accident that a majority of the leads on tv cop shows and action movies are white (and male).

PS: Never Say Never wasn't technically a Bond film, not being produced by Eon.

PPS: Still eagerly waiting for your list, ETM.

[Rowland]

Speaking of Bond, I just rewatched Dr. No a few weeks ago. I still don't care for it too much, but it is admittedly charming in its lo-fi way, and for its relative innocence in that everyone involved is obviously still fumbling to capture what would become the Bond formula. The pacing is abysmal however, and it's hilariously racist.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Take a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bond_(film_series)#Box_o ffice_results

The series was in decline when Dalton was hired (Moore was pushing 60 toward the end of his run). He got a small bump from being the new guy, but then it declined again with his second outing. Lazenby's turn was the worst performing Bond up to that time.

This is exactly what I said in my post. Did you read my post? The point of it was that a new Bond almost always (Lazenby excepted) puts up solid numbers because it's Bond. Elba could do the same, despite not being "bankable." If the audience then thinks you make a good Bond (Dalton didn't), they'll keep showing up, a lá Moore, Brosnan, Craig, and Connery. This refutes your claim that the actor playing Bond has to be a bankable star in order for the franchise to make money.


I'm using bankable to mean someone who's known to the public and has got a proven track record as a lead in and out of the industry. Elba doesn't have that at all. His biggest American project was as a supporting player with less than 10 minutes of screen time and mostly notable because he was a black guy playing a Norse god.

Were any Bonds as bankable (in terms of guaranteed return) as a Will Smith or a Tom Cruise? No, but that's not what I've been arguing. The guys who succeeded in the role all had strong public visibility and some kind of track record as leads. Elba doesn't. Even if you reduce "bankable" to mean pure name recognition, Elba doesn't meet the criteria.

MY argument is that Bond doesn't need a "bankable" actor in order to pull in BO numbers. Brosnan wasn't bankable, if we're using the bolded definition above. He hadn't carried any film, and considering this is film, that's what matters. Television success doesn't translate into box office success. He carried Remmington Steele to mediocre ratings. Just because there was some clamoring for him to take the role doesn't mean the general public showed up because it was Brosnan. There's clamoring for Nathan Fillion to play Nathan Drake. If they give him the role, they haven't given it to a "bankable" star just because a particular audience wants him and he is the lead on Castle. Audiences showed up for Brosnan because it was Bond, same as they did for Dalton's first go. They liked Brosnan in the role (and not Dalton), so they kept coming back. Craig wasn't a "bankable" star, again by your definition. He hadn't carried anything noteworthy as a lead prior to Casino Royale. Audiences showed up for Bond, liked him in the role, and they came back a second time. Elba could see the same result if given the chance (and again, this isn't taking into account the racial element, something I'm not arguing against, because unfortunately I'm inclined to agree that it would hurt the BO numbers).


On top of that there's the racial issue, which exists even if people don't want to acknowledge it. It's not an accident that a majority of the leads on tv cop shows and action movies are white (and male).

And again, sadly, I'm not arguing this. That would most probably be a hurdle, and a difficult one.


PS: Never Say Never wasn't technically a Bond film, not being produced by Eon.

You're arguing semantics. It's considered by just about everyone who doesn't care about producing (which is 99% of filmgoers) as a Bond film.

[Irish]

KF, it comes down to this: Nobody knows who Elba is. If it makes you feel better, we can throw out my use of "bankable" completely, and still no one knows who Elba is.

Brosnan had the lead in six movies, two tv miniseries, and a supporting role in a smash hit before he got Bond. This on top of Steele. Craig had Layer Cake and supporting roles in two Spielberg movies, among others, going back half a decade. He might not have had the visibility of Brosnan, but people still knew who he was. These were guys with track records and name recognition.

Your other points are well taken, but again nobody is going to put a half billion dollar franchise into the hands of an unknown. They've tried that before and it didn't work. Introducing a new Bond is a risky venture. They want someone who can carry the series for a least 4 movies or more. You're sure as hell not to going to gamble on an invisible actor pushing 40, especially in the current market environment.

If you want to think about it in the starkest way possible, Bond is one of the best jobs Eon and MGM has to offer. Why would you give your best position to an employee with zero experience?

PS: I wasn't really trying to argue semantics about Never Say Never, but it's essentially professionally done fan fic. It only got made because of a legal loophole around the name "James Bond" and is a remake of Thunderball. On several levels, it's not really a Bond film, just a fun bit of trivia.

[Ezee E]

I'll still venture to say that people at least recognize Idris Elba. The Wire has a significant amount of people that have at least seen it at some point. He's had significant roles since 2007, both TV and film. Let's talk The Office, Luther, Takers, Thor, and the upcoming Ghost Rider, Prometheus, and Guillermo Del Toro's next film. By the time the Bond movie would come out, he WOULD be recognizable.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Irish, I'm not arguing that Elba should or will get the gig. I agree that he won't. I just think you're severely overrating Brosnan and Craig's status with the general populace before they became Bond, and disagree with the assertion by you that someone without established status could bring in an audience. Bond is the established status.

[Qrazy]

I'll still venture to say that people at least recognize Idris Elba. The Wire has a significant amount of people that have at least seen it at some point. He's had significant roles since 2007, both TV and film. Let's talk The Office, Luther, Takers, Thor, and the upcoming Ghost Rider, Prometheus, and Guillermo Del Toro's next film. By the time the Bond movie would come out, he WOULD be recognizable.

He was in American Gangster as well.

[Kurosawa Fan]

He was in American Gangster as well.

28 Weeks Later, as well as a Tyler Perry movie, in which he was the lead. Certainly more recognizable than Daniel Craig when he became Bond.

[Sycophant]

Infernal Affairs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Departed

Very much agreed. Lau directed a tight, personal-feeling thriller. Scorsese made a tone-deaf chunk of bloat.

[Irish]

28 Weeks Later, as well as a Tyler Perry movie, in which he was the lead. Certainly more recognizable than Daniel Craig when he became Bond.

I was with you on your last post, but not this. If I'm overreaching in arguing the visibility of Brosnan, you've just lept over the Grand Canyon with this post here.

Elba has done no significant, mainstream film work. Afaik, he's only been cast as the lead in Luther. He's entirely obscure outside a small cabal of BBC and Wire fans (like the people on this board).

I can guarantee you that if you randomly walked around and asked 50 people who he was, first by name and then by showing them a picture, about 3 would recognize him. The general public doesn't keep crazy track of this stuff like we do. (When Elba is on the cover of Entertainment Weekly or heading up his own Jason Statham style actioners, then it's a different story).

(Also, the existence of Tyler Perry is sad commentary on what I was talking about a few pages back. I don't begrudge him the success, but he's essentially succeeding by specifically marketing movies to a segregated audience. Unfortunately, the more money he makes the more that sort of media and self-segregation continues.)

[Derek]

I can guarantee you that if you randomly walked around and asked 50 people who he was, first by name and then by showing them a picture, about 3 would recognize him.

Hey, just like Daniel Craig before he was Bond!

[Bosco B Thug]

I've only skim-read the current argument, but I think I'm with Irish here. Having not watched The Wire, I have very little idea of Idris Elba. Surely Daniel Craig had a celebrity presence when he became Bond, he was in so many high-profile movies.

[Qrazy]

I've only skim-read the current argument, but I think I'm with Irish here. Having not watched The Wire, I have very little idea of Idris Elba. Surely Daniel Craig had a celebrity presence when he became Bond, he was in so many high-profile movies.

Get your life in order.

[Qrazy]

I can guarantee you that if you randomly walked around and asked 50 people who he was, first by name and then by showing them a picture, about 3 would recognize him. The general public doesn't keep crazy track of this stuff like we do. (When Elba is on the cover of Entertainment Weekly or heading up his own Jason Statham style actioners, then it's a different story).


Statistics don't work because the researcher guarantees their hypothesis to be the case. Go do that and then we'll see, not that it matters because even if you're right about his obscurity as has been pointed out the other Bond actors were also fairly obscure.

[Ezee E]

Funny that my post was ignored about how he's getting top billing in three big budget Hollywood movies next year.

And also being a temp boss on one of the biggest sitcoms of America.

But it's okay.

[Bosco B Thug]

Get your life in order.

:) I knew someone would slap some sense into me about that. Glad it was you, Qrazy, wink.

On second thought, I think I should have stayed out of the argument, because I'm not saying Elba is not at a celebrity level that doesn't warrant him consideration as Bond. I just think Craig is validly seen as being at a different level, as Elba only has the visibility to me of a character actor (from Thor to The Office), not a leading man, and I suspect Craig, even in that early part of his career, was being cultivated as a possible hunky white celebrity dude who's been in action movies and made memorable badass quips in a Spielberg movie.

[Ezee E]

This was a big thing a while ago, but I was looking at Craig's IMDB...

He was in Road to Perdition?

:lol:

[Kurosawa Fan]

This was a big thing a while ago, but I was looking at Craig's IMDB...

He was in Road to Perdition?

:lol:

Yeah, he was the sniveling son that was the catalyst for the central conflict.

Irish, I don't have anything more to say. Elba has been in just as many high profile films as Craig pre-Bond. My opinion remains unchanged, and I don't believe you've done anything to legitimately refute any of my main points.

[Lucky]

Funny that my post was ignored about how he's getting top billing in three big budget Hollywood movies next year.

And also being a temp boss on one of the biggest sitcoms of America.

But it's okay.

I would also include the movie with Beyonce that he did. No one saw it here, but mainstream moviegoing audiences would probably recognize him from that over The Wire.

[Irish]

Statistics don't work because the researcher guarantees their hypothesis to be the case. Go do that and then we'll see, not that it matters because even if you're right about his obscurity as has been pointed out the other Bond actors were also fairly obscure.

Believe it or not, I actually have done something like that, and the results were depressing (although the person in question was TS Elliot. Don't ask).

We're quibbling over the visibility of these guys. But Brosnan was on the cover of Newsweek in the late 80s. How is that 'fairly obscure'?

I've already said that Craig didn't have the profile as some of the others, but if he was obscure then Elba is anonymous, about as well known as the players in a local community theater.

[Irish]

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lemo2gy1JV1qzs5cqo1_500 .jpg

:lol: I found that in about 2 minutes. Gotta love the Internet.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Fair enough, but that's not about Pierce, it's about metrosexuality. He's a captioned picture. Either way, the point has been proven, as far as I'm concerned, that an unestablished actor can take portray Bond and still have the film make a ton of money. That was my only argument. As for Elba, he won't be Bond anyway, so I don't really care. :lol:

[Irish]

Irish, I don't have anything more to say. Elba has been in just as many high profile films as Craig pre-Bond. My opinion remains unchanged, and I don't believe you've done anything to legitimately refute any of my main points.

*shrug* I don't either. I think you're wrong, but you did raise fair points.

[Irish]

Fair enough, but that's not about Pierce, it's about metrosexuality. He's a captioned picture. Either way, the point has been proven, as far as I'm concerned, that an unestablished actor can take portray Bond and still have the film make a ton of money. That was my only argument. As for Elba, he won't be Bond anyway, so I don't really care. :lol:

:P You're killing me because the basis of my opinion is that an actor who has never played a leading role in a major motion picture isn't what I'd call "established"; Bosco made a good point about Craig's presence and being groomed, etc.

But fair enough. Good talking to you and at you. ;)

[Melville]

Craig, even in that early part of his career, was being cultivated as a possible hunky white celebrity dude who's been in action movies and made memorable badass quips in a Spielberg movie.
Munich came out after he was cast as Bond. What other Spielberg movie was he in? In any case, all the press at the time pointed to his performance in Layer Cake as what got him the role, and Layer Cake was seen by like 10 people.

[Winston*]

Why are you guys all forgetting his most important role as British poet laureate Ted Hughes in the 2003 biographical film about Sylvia Plath, Sylvia, starring Gwyneth Paltrow?

It's the reason he was credited as Daniel 'Ted Hughes' Craig on the first Casino Royale poster.

[Bosco B Thug]

Munich came out after he was cast as Bond. What other Spielberg movie was he in? In any case, all the press at the time pointed to his performance in Layer Cake as what got him the role, and Layer Cake was seen by like 10 people. Obviously that one Spielberg movie no one knows about except me, obviously. :cool:

I think Elba should totally be Bond, and it'll totally make money, but there was just way too much Daniel Craig and Pierce Brosnan-underestimating going on!

[Li Lili]

Johnnie To film rankings? Yehey.

Exiled > The Mission > Election 2 > Mad Detective > Election > Running Out of Time > PTU > Breaking News > Justice, My Foot! > Vengeance > The Heroic Trio

I'd like to see more of his romcoms/HK extravaganzas. I didn't find Breaking News to be that compelling besides the first scene, which is expertly shot. It certainly isn't one of his most impressive efforts.

Hi Llopin ! :)

Well, I'll rank almost the same way as you, except I haven't seen Vengeance (too scared that it would be rather too bad).

I would add many others (I've just realized that I've seen a fair bit!), including his romance films... I loved 'Running On Kharma' (seen several times), 'My left eye sees Ghosts' (funny and cute).
Recently I've seen 'Don't go breaking my heart' a romance not his best ones though, with Louis Koo and Daniel Wu, but pleasant to watch still.

[Li Lili]

Ah and recently I've seen at the theatre 'Restless' by Gus Van Sant and 'We need to talk about Kevin' by Lynne Ramsay, anyone seen it ?
Restless was for me just ok, a bit 'naive' and 'sweet' in a way, We need to talk about Kevin was rather raw, with a heavy, cold, grim ambiance.

[Sycophant]

Wow! Welcome back, Li Lili! I had to do a double take when I saw your name on the front page.

[Ezee E]

Indeed. Welcome back. Hope you stick around.

I saw We Need To Talk About Kevin at Telluride. I wasn't a big fan of it. Well made by Ramsey, but way over-the-top to me. Too much.

[Spinal]

Wow! Welcome back, Li Lili! I had to do a double take when I saw your name on the front page.

Yes. Thumbs up to that.

[Ivan Drago]

Are you someone from RT, Lili?

[B-side]

Just as a heads up as it's a pretty big deal, Rivette's L'amour fou finally has a decent print and English subtitles on KG.

[baby doll]

Just as a heads up as it's a pretty big deal, Rivette's L'amour fou finally has a decent print and English subtitles on KG.Thanks for the heads-up.

[Li Lili]

Thanks for the welcome back... Well, at the moment, I have some free time, so I may come more often...
And yes, Ivan Drago, I was also someone from RT, a long time ago (even forgot when was it...)

Indeed. Welcome back. Hope you stick around.

I saw We Need To Talk About Kevin at Telluride. I wasn't a big fan of it. Well made by Ramsey, but way over-the-top to me. Too much.
Yes, I can understand, thinking more about it afterwards, it's true that it can be over the top such as for the obsession with the colours, especially the reds, or the unrealistic situation. The fact that their kid at 8 years old still wearing nappies, hardly talks or hardly has a reaction, or shows some "odd" behaviours, and the parents don't see a specialist (only once she sees a doctor, who doesn't seem very competent), it's a bit unreal, even if it's from the mother's memories, therefore her own point of view (but a memory has always something unreal, biased, incomplete or disproportionate) we sees.

[Llopin]

Hi Llopin ! :)

Well, I'll rank almost the same way as you, except I haven't seen Vengeance (too scared that it would be rather too bad).

I would add many others (I've just realized that I've seen a fair bit!), including his romance films... I loved 'Running On Kharma' (seen several times), 'My left eye sees Ghosts' (funny and cute).
Recently I've seen 'Don't go breaking my heart' a romance not his best ones though, with Louis Koo and Daniel Wu, but pleasant to watch still.

So awesome to read you! Hope everything's going all right!

I find it interesting how To's reputation in the west consists on his crime/action flicks - which endure a complete festival exposure - but probably in HK most people would recognize him for his lighter efforts. I'm aware his gangster films have been critically aclaimed over there (having won several HK awards), but his romantic comedies/dramas and Chow projects have been among his most commercially strong releases.

I'd really like to see Spacked Out, which seems to be an atypical film even for his eclectic standards.

[Dukefrukem]

Thomas Jane was a gay hooker? (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/10/thomas_jane_gay.html)

[Ivan Drago]

And yes, Ivan Drago, I was also someone from RT, a long time ago (even forgot when was it...)

LillyVon? Just a shot in the dark.

[Ezee E]

Thomas Jane was a gay hooker? (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/10/thomas_jane_gay.html)
Arrested Development?

[Stay Puft]

LillyVon? Just a shot in the dark.

Ouyang Feng, iirc

[Li Lili]

So awesome to read you! Hope everything's going all right!

I find it interesting how To's reputation in the west consists on his crime/action flicks - which endure a complete festival exposure - but probably in HK most people would recognize him for his lighter efforts. I'm aware his gangster films have been critically aclaimed over there (having won several HK awards), but his romantic comedies/dramas and Chow projects have been among his most commercially strong releases.

I'd really like to see Spacked Out, which seems to be an atypical film even for his eclectic standards.
It's fine, thanks !
I think his romance, or non gangster films, are more for Chinese viewers due to cultural reasons. Those films have too much like a "local taste" (and a film to be distributed internationally has to have a 'universal taste', or values, themes). Plus they are purely commercial, like mostly evething in HK, as long there are big names and stars and a story and characters with whom any local would link.

I haven'y seen Spacked Out. I have a few of his productions to see.

And perhaps I will watch this week Wind Blast (China/HK fiml) and The Unjust (Korean films)... maybe will check if there is an Asian film thread somewhere... :)

[Li Lili]

Ouyang Feng, iirc
yep !
:)

[Irish]

http://adage.com/article/mediaworks/paramount-offers-transformers-streams-direct-consumers/230191/

Paramount is streaming the last Transformers movie directly to consumers. Interesting.

[MadMan]

http://adage.com/article/mediaworks/paramount-offers-transformers-streams-direct-consumers/230191/

Paramount is streaming the last Transformers movie directly to consumers. Interesting.Instead of watching a crappy Micheal Bay movie in theaters, you can view it at home. Hurray! :pritch:

[Boner M]

yep !
:)
Oh wow, you sent me a really great library of British industrial/neofolk music back in the RT day... I never sent anything back because I was a relative music-n00b/lazy.

[Llopin]

Oh wow, you sent me a really great library of British industrial/neofolk music back in the RT day... I never sent anything back because I was a relative music-n00b/lazy.

Current 93 ftw.

[Li Lili]

Oh wow, you sent me a really great library of British industrial/neofolk music back in the RT day... I never sent anything back because I was a relative music-n00b/lazy.
Oh ! I completely forgot this! Bah, no worry, I wasn't expecting you to send me anything back! :)
And now, I don't even listen to this kind of music anymore (I've turned the page!).
Although I saw Enter the Void with Throbbing Gristle (last year or so), and seriously the movie is rubbish (to stay polite) I turned off after a few minutes ! I get bored now with those kind of films, and this movement of music...

Even C93, Coil, Nurse with wound, all these groups, I left them behind me and haven't listened to it for years now...

[Boner M]

Yeah, I only really listen the folky stuff of those bands nowadays. Did you see the doco The Ballad of Genesis & Lady Jaye? (to keep things OT) It's really excellent, even if you're not into TG's music anymore.

[Qrazy]

TDzbFu05qoo&feature=related

Now we know.

[B-side]

Upon a rewatch of Harakiri, I noticed two things I hadn't noticed before. 1. This film has a very warm sense of humor. Kobayashi doesn't make it terribly obvious, but there's humor in the constant delaying of the act of harakiri and the "across the stomach" gestures made in place of actually saying the words. 2. Taking into account that the film was made in 1962, post-WWII, that both samurai who ended up committing harakiri were from a clan in Hiroshima that was ultimately destroyed, and that Miho and the baby died of mysterious illnesses (radiation poisoning?), I'm inclined to read an equally pertinent more modern allegory into the film. Even if that reading doesn't hold up as a secondary interpretation, what's presented outright is terrific. Kobayashi's form is so disciplined (pardon the pun). The framing is appropriately geometric in all the right places, emphasizing the rigidity of the samurai code and the excessive formality of the era. That the men who say they wish to commit harakiri to escape their desperate circumstances are praised is delightfully absurd, and the dialogue has them repeat that praise until it becomes clear Kobayashi seeks to have you share that sentiment. In keeping with his de-romanticization of the samurai, he stages the fight sequences as nearly all anticipation. They are fights imbued with hesitance, fear and survivalist instincts. Most of the time is spent searching for a way past the others' defenses and attempting to escape another's blade. There's no glory here, only a broken man trying to avenge the wrongful death of his children and grandchild on his way out. Though those with power dictate history, and thus Hanshiro and Motome's real stories will never see the light of day, the blood Hanshiro spilled in their samurai and himself continues to stain the walls of the Iyi clan's home.

[Grouchy]

Yesterday I saw Raising Arizona for the first time. It was the only Coen Bros film I had left to see.

Won't be the last. In retrospect I like that movie more and more. The ending is just genius. Surprisingly tender, too, for those who often accuse the Coens of being cold towards their characters.

[Li Lili]

Yeah, I only really listen the folky stuff of those bands nowadays. Did you see the doco The Ballad of Genesis & Lady Jaye? (to keep things OT) It's really excellent, even if you're not into TG's music anymore.
No I haven't seen it, and actually I'm surely won't, even if it's excellent. I saw Genesis P.Orridge on stage a few years ago. At the time, I liked and was even quite pleased, now it doesn't interest me.

[B-side]

L'amour fou is Rivette's usual blending of theater and reality. Anecdotal queries regarding acting and the right way to stage a play don't permeate much beyond the surface. They're situated as digressions from the recurring and repetitive rehearsal sequences. The actors and Sebastien are interviewed by the crew filming the rehearsals, and they sporadically remark on the goings-on with Sebastien, and even his turbulent relationship with Claire, his wife. These interviews serve as nice ways of getting perspective on the narrative and some background info we don't otherwise get. The film is more or less split into two major threads: that of the rehearsals and Sebastien and Claire's domestic drama. They bounce off of each other and life for the two of them ends up resembling a lot of the dramatic pieces of the play. This ends up being a lot more interesting in concept than execution. A great majority of the interest and pathos in the film resides in the domestic sequences where their relationship displays brilliant, spontaneous, organic and complex chemistry perfectly handled by Rivette. Though there's repetition in their arc, Rivette injects their interactions with enough nuance to maintain interest throughout. Really, though the theater rehearsals are important, and likely serve a greater thematic purpose I haven't yet identified, they also drag the film down after the first hour. The two best sequences in the film take place just between Sebastien and Claire at home. The first sees Claire proposing that they take a break for a few weeks to hopefully return things to normal between them, and after hearing this, Sebastien quietly walks to a dresser, grabs a razor, and begins slicing away at his clothing, and Claire gazes on as she only then gets a real sense that Sebastien hasn't lost his passion for her. It effectively reverses their roles and has Claire playing the more level-headed consoler. The second is toward the end when Sebastien takes a few days off from rehearsing the play to stay at home with Claire, and they turn that time into a sex-fueled romp of genuine love and passion while they tear apart their apartment in gleeful negligence only to have Claire become bored and wish to see Sebastien back at the theater. Complaints aside, it wasn't a trying 4 hours, and I do really look forward to the upcoming DVDs for Out 1.

[Boner M]

the upcoming DVDs for Out 1.
whoa what where when

[B-side]

whoa what where when

German company is releasing both of them next month. They'll surely be on KG the day of or close to. If they don't have English subtitles, someone can synch the already existing ones to the new rips.

[Russ]

Aventurera (Alberto Gout, 1950) ***

Wildly energetic entry in the Mexican cabaretera genre, this equal parts film noir / lurid melodrama / extravagant musical proves irresistible through the sheer force of its stars, Cuban-born spitfire Ninón Sevilla and her arch-nemesis, the conniving Andrea Palma, as it breathlessly careens from one improbable plot twist to the next. This one is endless fun and far more entertaining than I was expecting.


http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/29/29_images/029aventurera.jpg

[Raiders]

I have actually seen that film (think it was a special showing on TCM years ago). Didn't care much for it. Don't think this style of film, shadowy melodrama piling on incredulously, is really my bag and I was rather annoyed by it. Can't remember anything specific though, except snippets of the singing which even now seemed to stand awkwardly within the film.

[Russ]

Possessing a camp sensibility, while not required, probably goes a long way in aiding one's appreciation of these types of films, so yeah, definitely an acquired taste. I love this kind of stuff, tho, and Aventurera is considered a bit of a classic by many, and one of the best of its kind. Makes me want to investigate further (especially Ninón Sevilla).

[Scar]

Newsbreak:

The video quality for the Pulp Fiction bluray is amazing, at least based on the first sequence.

Carry on.

[megladon8]

Ugh. I really don't like Braveheart.

[B-side]

German company is releasing both of them next month. They'll surely be on KG the day of or close to. If they don't have English subtitles, someone can synch the already existing ones to the new rips.

Heh. Coincidentally, I just checked the site again and they were delayed into 2012.:sad:

[Bosco B Thug]

Touch of Evil dilemma: I watched the first 30 minutes of the original version, then I watched the first 30 or so minutes of the restored version, and I don't know which version to watch the rest of.

Restored version had the restored opening credits and did intercutting that made the film much more dynamic, but I think I prefer all that studio trimming... and even their additions. There's a little expositiony talk between Heston and Janet Leigh that is taken out of the Restored version, and frankly, IMO, the studio had the right idea. But, I'll probably go on with the Restored version, my brain is telling me as of now.

[Boner M]

Eros Plus Massacre (Yoshida 69) - 8.5

I drifted in and out of sleep when I saw this a few years ago, and didn't really know what was going on, but it seemed pretty magnificent even with a superficial skim-viewing. Thoughts?

[Bosco B Thug]

I drifted in and out of sleep when I saw this a few years ago, and didn't really know what was going on, but it seemed pretty magnificent even with a superficial skim-viewing. Thoughts? Not really, unfortunately. Lots of political philosophizing beyond my ken of thought, and narrative abstractions I just went with. Approached it like a Godard film, didn't try to match it intellectually, just looked at it formally, and in that regard, it is definitely magnificent and more Tarkovsky than Godard. A magnificent, abstract, neverendingly visually-ingenious history report on women as related to radicalism. I actually was gonna give it an 8, not too much into this much avant garde, but it's so different from anything else in cinema - it fuses constant avant garde technique with genuinely powerful dramatic scenes (in this way, Godard could pick up a thing or two from Yoshida) - so I decided to distinguish it from all my other 8s.

[Boner M]

Hey, those are thoughts!

[Bosco B Thug]

Hey, those are thoughts! You r my muse.

[Qrazy]

Touch of Evil dilemma: I watched the first 30 minutes of the original version, then I watched the first 30 or so minutes of the restored version, and I don't know which version to watch the rest of.

Restored version had the restored opening credits and did intercutting that made the film much more dynamic, but I think I prefer all that studio trimming... and even their additions. There's a little expositiony talk between Heston and Janet Leigh that is taken out of the Restored version, and frankly, IMO, the studio had the right idea. But, I'll probably go on with the Restored version, my brain is telling me as of now.

Why would you watch a movie like that?

Also, watch the restored version.

[Qrazy]

Redline (anime) > Speed Racer

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/1/11000/224646-redline_hd03.jpg

[Winston*]

Does anyone own Fires on the Plain or The Human Condition on Criterion DVD?

[baby doll]

Does anyone own Fires on the Plain or The Human Condition on Criterion DVD?I have a Chinese bootleg of the Criterion DVD of Fires on the Plain but haven't gotten around to watching it. (So many bootlegs, so little time.) So far I haven't been able to find The Human Condition with English subtitles, but I did come across a bootleg of the French DVD.

[Winston*]

Cheers, I sorted it though. You should watch Fires on the Plain btw. It's really great.

[Bosco B Thug]

Why would you watch a movie like that?

Also, watch the restored version. Cuz I was getting no conclusive answers about which version to watch from reluctant internet-surfing.

Thanks for the vote!

[Sycophant]

Sounds like Winston* has whatever he wanted to take care of taken care of, but if for no other reason than to boast, I, too, have the Criterion Human Condition set.

[Winston*]

Sounds like Winston* has whatever he wanted to take care of taken care of, but if for no other reason than to boast, I, too, have the Criterion Human Condition set.

It was to do with a citation in a history essay I was writing about those movies and No Regrets for Our Youth. Last assignment of my degree done, Sycophant, woo!

[Grouchy]

I didn't get Hereafter at all. Wasn't bad, but was I supposed to care about any of it? It's too languid a movie to ever generate suspense or even interest. Plus it's always more or less obvious where it's going.

[elixir]

I didn't get Hereafter at all. Wasn't bad, but was I supposed to care about any of it? It's too languid a movie to ever generate suspense or even interest. Plus it's always more or less obvious where it's going.

It's an awful movie.

[Sycophant]

It was to do with a citation in a history essay I was writing about those movies and No Regrets for Our Youth. Last assignment of my degree done, Sycophant, woo!

Congratulations!

I should watch No Regrets for Our Youth during this week's break from school.

[Winston*]

Congratulations!

I should watch No Regrets for Our Youth during this week's break from school.

It's not very good IMO. More interesting as a historical artifact than as a work of art.

[Sycophant]

With where I'm at right now, historical value is about as interesting as artistic or entertainment value.

[soitgoes...]

I thought No Regrets for Our Youth to be the first Kurosawa film to show greatness.

[Rowland]

McQueen's Shame is getting praised like mad by most of the critical press, while the folks at Slant, Reverse Shot, and the D'Angelo et. al. crew are uniformly laying on the hate pretty thick. Hunger left me deeply conflicted, so this response is intriguing me.

[Ezee E]

McQueen's Shame is getting praised like mad by most of the critical press, while the folks at Slant, Reverse Shot, and the D'Angelo et. al. crew are uniformly laying on the hate pretty thick. Hunger left me deeply conflicted, so this response is intriguing me.
Fairly sure it'll be divisive here also.

[Watashi]

McQueen's Shame is getting praised like mad by most of the critical press, while the folks at Slant, Reverse Shot, and the D'Angelo et. al. crew are uniformly laying on the hate pretty thick. Hunger left me deeply conflicted, so this response is intriguing me.
Methinks you should watch the film first. Form your own opinion. Then look at the reviews.

[Rowland]

Methinks you should watch the film first. Form your own opinion. Then look at the reviews.I haven't read any of the reviews, but I take note of responses. Which I sorta wish I didn't do either, because knowing the divisive nature of the film in advance (and who lands on which side) does inevitably color my expectations to some degree, but I suppose that goes with the territory as a criticism junkie.

[Ezee E]

Think I may apply for Butt Numb-A-Thon... Anyone in on this?

[Ezee E]

Think I may apply for Butt Numb-A-Thon... Anyone in on this?
First thing's first for Butt-Numb-A-Thon... Review a movie where a girl sings "Jingle Bells" while being raped. What am I getting myself into?

[MadMan]

First thing's first for Butt-Numb-A-Thon... Review a movie where a girl sings "Jingle Bells" while being raped. What am I getting myself into?:eek: :lol: :confused:


Modern Times (Chaplin, 1936) ***½At some point I need to watch my Criterion copy I bought during the last sale. Easily one of Chaplin's best.

Oh and I'm hoping that my DVR taped Limelight. I would take more advantage of TCM showing Buster Keaton's movies every Sunday if many of the more famous ones weren't on Netflix Instant Viewing. Still I'll be on the lookout for some of his lesser ones they decide to air.

PS: 11,000th post. Should have used it on something more special.

[Ivan Drago]

First thing's first for Butt-Numb-A-Thon... Review a movie where a girl sings "Jingle Bells" while being raped. What am I getting myself into?

What the hell is this movie marathon and how did you get in on it? What else do you have to watch?

And what's the MC consensus on Le Amiche? I saw a trailer for it before Stalker a while back and thought it looked interesting. Also thought the trailer for it was interesting too, considering it had the same trailer structure as old American Hollywood movies of the 40s.

[Irish]

It's Harry Knowles' annual event in Austin. You have to apply to get tickets. There are 200 seats, and last year Ain't It Cool claimed 10,000 people applied.

[Ezee E]

It's Harry Knowles' annual event in Austin. You have to apply to get tickets. There are 200 seats, and last year Ain't It Cool claimed 10,000 people applied.
10K? Wow. I figured it was like 500, haha.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Shame is among the best films I've seen in years. Over a month since I've seen it, I still think about it almost daily. I was not a huge fan of Hunger, I found it intriguing but middling and dull for some stretches.

[B-side]

Frammartino's first feature, The Gift, is purified semi-documentary cinema. Any sound beyond that of the working people seems alien. Intrusive. A marching band's music is a cacophony that easily encompasses the entire village. Cars and mopeds feel like loud and strange visitors. Any dialogue is mere atmospheric sound. The handful of lines are usually background noise. It's a compliment to the film that the most dramatic aspect is when a boy loses his ball down the winding and labyrinthine roads and alleys and eventually off the cliff the town resides on. The architecture of concrete is roughly organized and beginning to crumble. This is as pared down and image-driven as narrative cinema gets, and it's pretty terrific.

[dreamdead]

Rowland,

Since the Three Times debacle, how has your university film studies course been?

[Yxklyx]

What the hell is this movie marathon and how did you get in on it? What else do you have to watch?

And what's the MC consensus on Le Amiche? I saw a trailer for it before Stalker a while back and thought it looked interesting. Also thought the trailer for it was interesting too, considering it had the same trailer structure as old American Hollywood movies of the 40s.

I liked it a lot. It's like a Sirk film but with Antonioni's sensibilities.

[Rowland]

Rowland,

Since the Three Times debacle, how has your university film studies course been?It's better, at least in the sense that we've been watching some classics that I've neglected, so first time viewings of A Trip to the Moon, Strike, Modern Times, and Singin' in the Rain have been cool. The class has seemed a bit more engaged as the material has grown more modern (I was surprised by how well Singin' in the Rain played), and while the instructor's methods are still sloppy, I've discovered that he's a grad student teaching his first class, so I have a bit more empathy for the guy.

[B-side]

Kairat (Omirbaev, 1992) ***

I need thoughts. Not sure I like that you watched it on YouTube, but I'll try not to nitpick.:P

[Boner M]

Not sure I like that you watched it on YouTube, but I'll try not to nitpick.:P
Yeah, I should've watched it on a glorious 35mm print like you always do. :D

I thought it was gonna be amazing with that opening scene, of staccato shots aboard and outside trains with a stone finally shattering the train window (the reprisal of that shot at nighttime later on is stunning, too) introducing the credits, but it eventually became a little too elliptical to really cohere into an absorbing character piece. I was kinda lost by the end. Still, a great film of moments - I'm sure I've seen a closeup of man and a woman's arms touching on public transport, but it feels especially erotically charged in this context. Omirbaev really seems to absorbed Hitchcock and Bresson into a style of his own; the innate pleasure in train scenes and men following women of the former, and the expressivity between images (rather than within them) of the latter. Also like how the blurring of dream and reality emphasising how the drudgery of the protag's life has colonised his subconscious.

Plus, it's really damn funny at times in the deadpan Kaurismaki-ish way; the girl on the train's stonefaced line-reading of "a bee stung my tongue" brought me many lolz.

[Boner M]

What else of his have you seen, btw?

[B-side]

Yeah, I should've watched it on a glorious 35mm print like you always do. :D

sshhhh


I thought it was gonna be amazing with that opening scene, of staccato shots aboard and outside trains with a stone finally shattering the train window (the reprisal of that shot at nighttime later on is stunning, too) introducing the credits, but it eventually became a little too elliptical to really cohere into an absorbing character piece. I was kinda lost by the end. Still, a great film of moments - I'm sure I've seen a closeup of man and a woman's arms touching on public transport, but it feels especially erotically charged in this context. Omirbaev really seems to absorbed Hitchcock and Bresson into a style of his own; the innate pleasure in train scenes and men following women of the former, and the expressivity between images (rather than within them) of the latter. Also like how the blurring of dream and reality emphasising how the drudgery of the protag's life has colonised his subconscious.

Plus, it's really damn funny at times in the deadpan Kaurismaki-ish way; the girl on the train's stonefaced line-reading of "a bee stung my tongue" brought me many lolz.

Hm. Well, I'm glad you liked it.


What else of his have you seen, btw?

Nothing yet, but he's got a few more on KG with subs.

[Qrazy]

America, America felt like Kazan's take on an Italian film. Definitely a unique work in his oeuvre, very different stylistically than anything else he ever did. The film was quite good, not one of his best but it's fairly hard for him to top himself.

[Grouchy]

America, America felt like Kazan's take on an Italian film. Definitely a unique work in his oeuvre, very different stylistically than anything else he ever did. The film was quite good, not one of his best but it's fairly hard for him to top himself.
I liked that a lot. I thought it was a movie that had the density of classic literature at times.

EDIT: Whatever the shit that means.

[Russ]

Since Drive premiered, there's been a lot of renewed interest in Nicolas Winding Refn lately, so I'm wondering if anyone here has seen/can reco his earlier film, Fear X. I've got it queued up next. Anyone a fan? Like to hear some thoughts.

[Rowland]

We watched the first half of Birth of a Nation in my film history class, I'm thinking I'll finish the rest of it on Netflix Instant since the instructor ever so benevolently decided to spare us the post-Civil-War half, which I understand contains most of the film's allegedly offensive material.

[Winston*]

I'm not sure you should be showing The Birth of a Nation if you are going to skip the second half. What was the instructor trying to illustrate with the film?

[Rowland]

I'm not sure you should be showing The Birth of a Nation if you are going to skip the second half. What was the instructor trying to illustrate with the film?Early developments in visual narrative storytelling. He spent more time discussing Griffith's pioneering use of color filters than the dubious politics of the material.

[EyesWideOpen]

Two amazon reviews for The Orphanage:

"DID NOT REALIZE THIS MOVIE WAS IN SPANISH (MY FAULT I GUESS). DO NOT WANT TO READ WHILE WATCHING MOVIES YOU MISS TOO MUCH. TOSSED IT"

"I BOUGHT THIS FILM, ASSUMING I'D BE ABLE TO WATCH IT IN ENGLISH SINCE I LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY AND THIS IS A PRIMARILY ENGLISH SPEAKING TOWN. YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO WATCH THIS MOVIE IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SPANISH. WHY THE PRODUCERS OF THIS FILM FAILED TO FILM IT WITH ENGLISH SPEAKING ACTORS IS BEYOND ME. AT THE VERY LEAST THEY COULD HAVE DUBBED THE FILM IN ENGLISH WITH VOICE-OVER ACTORS SO WE COULD UNDERSTAND THE PLOT. I HAD TO GIVE THIS DVD TO A MEXICAN FRIEND WHO COULD AT LEAST WATCH IT. THE DIRECTOR AND PRODUCER OF THIS FILM WASTED THEIR TIME IN MAKING A MOVIE FOR THE SPANISH SPEAKING MARKET ONLY. HEY, NO SE HABLA AND NO SE COMPRENDE SPANISH!"

[Watashi]

People speak English in New York?

[Dukefrukem]

http://blastr.com/assets_c/2011/10/ImagePixarDreamWorks101211-thumb-501x1231-73412.jpg

[elixir]

But, How to Train Your Dragon > Toy Story 3.

[Dukefrukem]

But, How to Train Your Dragon > Toy Story 3.

I think I would actually say

How to Train Your Dragon & Kung-Fu Panda > Toy Story 2 & 3

[Mara]

Also, The Prince of Egypt is underrated.

Chicken Run and Wallace & Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit are both great.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, pretty dumb. Toy Story could easily be on the dreamworks side...

They're toys... BUT THEY HAVE LIVES.

[Sven]

While saying nothing of Dreamworks, I can think of little else regarding contemporary film-related attitudes more ludicrous than the pedestalization of Pixar. Have they made great films? Yes. Have they made poor ones? Oh yes. Let go.

[Sven]

Chicken Run and Wallace & Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit are both great.

Well, obviously, Aardman is the superior studio.

[Mysterious Dude]

It also seems pretty unfair to reduce Shrek to being a movie about talking animals.

Plus, I think Pixar has the same process: "What dumb animal or inanimate object have we not done yet?"

[Sven]

Antz is better than defensible.

[Dukefrukem]

While saying nothing of Dreamworks, I can think of little else regarding contemporary film-related attitudes more ludicrous than the pedestalization of Pixar. Have they made great films? Yes. Have they made poor ones? Oh yes. Let go.

Wats just felt a disturbance in the force.

[Grouchy]

While saying nothing of Dreamworks, I can think of little else regarding contemporary film-related attitudes more ludicrous than the pedestalization of Pixar. Have they made great films? Yes. Have they made poor ones? Oh yes. Let go.
IMO about 80% of Pixar's output is great. When you compare that with the rest of Hollywood's child-oriented films, which are (mostly) totally fucking terrible and insulting to the intelligence of kids, I'd say there's no pedestalization going on. If anything they're underrated.

[Irish]

While saying nothing of Dreamworks, I can think of little else regarding contemporary film-related attitudes more ludicrous than the pedestalization of Pixar. Have they made great films? Yes. Have they made poor ones? Oh yes. Let go.

They had an amazing 10 year run from 1995-2005. They made six popular movies, all but one based on original IP, all of them technical achievements and all of them huge moneymakers.

By any standard by which you'd care to measure, they did incredible work during that decade. Acknowledging that level of achievent isn't ludicrous.

Now, if you want to talk post 2006, then that's a different conversation because it involves Disney.

[Rowland]

So yeah, Birth of a Nation. Contrary to the popular/politically correct consensus, the second half > the first half.

[Sven]

They had an amazing 10 year run from 1995-2005. They made six popular movies, all but one based on original IP, all of them technical achievements and all of them huge moneymakers.

By any standard by which you'd care to measure, they did incredible work during that decade. Acknowledging that level of achievent isn't ludicrous.

I didn't say that the company hasn't made tons of cash. But I don't think acknowledging their fiscal victories equals legitimizing product quality, which is what I was originally commenting on, and is what people are usually talking about when they are fawning en masse.

[Watashi]

Wats just felt a disturbance in the force.
Nah. It's just Match-Cut's... thing.

[Ezee E]

So yeah, Birth of a Nation. Contrary to the popular/politically correct consensus, the second half > the first half.
Despite the second half being ridiculously racist, isn't it the more applauded half as well? Seems to be the only half I see clips of, etc.

[Watashi]

I do have to say DreamWorks is kicking Pixar's ass this year. Puss in Boots looks great too.

However, Brave looks like it will be Pixar's most original and mature film yet.

[Rowland]

Despite the second half being ridiculously racist, isn't it the more applauded half as well? Seems to be the only half I see clips of, etc.Maybe I was mistaken, but most of the reviews I've skimmed through almost uniformly appear to praise the first half in favor of the second, whereas I'd argue that a great deal of the film's most impressive technical/formal/storytelling merits are found in the ideologically repugnant but anthropologically fascinating second half.

[Ezee E]

Maybe I was mistaken, but most of the reviews I've skimmed through almost uniformly appear to praise the first half in favor of the second, whereas I'd argue that a great deal of the film's most impressive technical/formal/storytelling merits are found in the ideologically repugnant but anthropologically fascinating second half.
Maybe I was mistaken. I always found the second half to cause so much commotion because of how well it's all done.

[Russ]

Since Drive premiered, there's been a lot of renewed interest in Nicolas Winding Refn lately, so I'm wondering if anyone here has seen/can reco his earlier film, Fear X. I've got it queued up next. Anyone a fan? Like to hear some thoughts.
Saw this and my initial reaction was mixed, though I'm liking it more on reflection. Also can easily understand why lots of viewers would be hostile towards the film: it really requires you to work to get any meaning at all out of it. After a promising start with John Turturro as a mall cop obsessed with finding the killer of his wife, who was seemingly randomly shot, Refn switches gears and spends time inside the head of the killer, James Remar. They eventually meet and the film ends with absolutely no resolution nor explanation. Because the events are so closely tied to the film's ambiguity, the viewer is free to interpret the narrative as he sees fit, with obsession and mental stability becoming front and center themes. Those who choose not to participate in the intellectual investiture will doubtless feel cheated.

The stylistic choices are heavily indebted to Lynch and Kubrick. As one would expect, the cinematography is outstanding. Turturro and Remar are both excellent in their roles, and the soundtrack is courtesy of Brian Eno. It's not a worthless film like many of the reviews would have you believe, but it is an extremely challenging one. I would think more than one viewing is required, and I can easily see my rating improve on a second viewing.

** / ****

[MadMan]

I'm Not Scared was actually quite good, even though the middle part of the film is weak and it wanders a bit. I loved the stunning shots of the countryside, and how the film properly handles its kid actors-I was also reminded a bit of George Washington and also Stand By Me as well, to a certain degree. The ending wasn't quite what I expected, either, and the movie had a really understated and excellent score, too. I rented this thinking it was a thriller for some reason, but I would say that it was mostly a drama with elements of tension, and a little bit of film noir only towards the conclusion.

[Winston*]

The Town - Enjoyed this. Completely unmemorable, but the good kind of completely unmemorable. Didn't leave me irritated like Gone Baby Gone.

[Yxklyx]

The Mexican film Leap Year (directed by an Aussie) was very good! A lot like a Ming-liang Tsai film.

[Watashi]

http://criterion-production.s3.amazonaws.com/release_images/3638/594_box_348x490.jpg

Such an awesome cover.

[MadMan]

That one will be made a priority. Even though some other lesser known 50s sci-fi/horror monster movies could have been picked (wait, I bet most of them have already been featured in the Criterion catalog anyways).

But what the hell, man. Its freakin' Godzilla. King of the Monsters.

[Boner M]

Blind-buyin' this:

http://criterion-production.s3.amazonaws.com/release_images/3641/Gorin_box.png

[transmogrifier]

Some brief thoughts on recent films:

Red River - 84
A "road" movie of sorts that shows both the benefits and drawbacks of being single-minded and confident in your own decisions. In the end, perhaps it comes down to choosing the right dictator at the right time. The whole film is imbued with a strong melancholic streak, as loyaties are tested when good people make bad decisions. Clift is almost saintly in the aura he brings to the role, and Wayne inhabits almost a Walter Whitish character, ending up the nominal villain of the piece. Great stuff.

Head - 47
Starts off funny, and you think that surreal humor, aligned with the quite willing and game young men of the Monkees, and a heady sense of "Fuck you all" will carry it quite far, but it starts to become too self-serious and drops any pretense of comedy, making it a huge drag by the end. A missed opportunity.

Afterschool - 36
Grindingly obvious message movie directed as a sort of art-film-by-numbers. Yes, the shallow depth of field helps to remind you about the narrow depth of field the protagonist has, but once you get to minute 100 of this, it becomes a tiresome, hectoring drag. It also doesn't help that I have an aversion to sad-sack borderline mute protagonists who act like hollowed out shells of humans and don't really engage in standard social interactions. The true fascination in this type of lecture is in the friction between the "normal" social outlook you want to convey to others and your actual thoughts and personality. Here, all that conflict is jettisoned for a boring young man moping around for the whole movie and apparently standing in for the soul-sucking effect of instant-media. Boring - show me the descent, show me the stuggle, not the Haneke-inspired "Reefer Madness" bullshit on offer here.

Across 110th Street - 77
Beautifully primal, this is a revenge movie done right, with no standard (anti-) hero, but instead a bunch of flawed, arrogant humans trying to be the hardest man in the room. Even Yaphet Kotto, wearing his incorruptability like a neon sign to anyone who looks his way still feels the need to be the alpha dog. The violence bites, the characters are shaded just right so we can empathize without necessarily endorsing their actions, and Anthony Quinn is a bitter marvel as the two-faced, bullying detective being squeezed out of both his job with the police and his job on the payroll of major crimelords. Grungy goodness.

Brooklyn's Finest - 40
Instead of just making one cliched cop movie, Fuqua has the ambition to make three at the same time: the undercover cop who wants to get out, the corrupt cop who wants to help his family, and the retiring cop with a point to prove. Now, I know Don Cheadle compentently played a psycho in Out of Sight, and was effective as a psychotic in Devil in a Blue Dress, but here he comes across as the wimpiest, least-believable criminal OR cop ever.

[MadMan]

I still haven't seen all of Red River, but its a priority. Head was okay-I enjoyed the weirdness, but I agree that in the end it doesn't mean anything or has really something interesting at all to say. Now Across 110th Street, that movie is a 70s grindhouse/blaxplotation gem. I think it might end up being a new favorite.

[Irish]

Damn, Ip Man 2 was so much fun. The story is pretty much Rocky IV, but set in 1949 Hong Kong. The plot is basically the same as the first movie, where Ip Man, Saint of Facial Bruises, has to defend Chinese pride against barbaric foreign devils (this time it's England). Most of it is an excuse to move from one fight scene to the next and the pacing is just about breakneck. They pretty much manage to hit all of the usual wuxia tropes to good effect. Each fight sequence is unique, and all of them have that crazy, frenetic energy common to the genre.

Even though the movie is going hard for the nationalist (heh) thing, and damned near canonizes Ip Man, they don't make it easy for him in the end. The climax of the movie lasts over 10 minutes and contains a good amount of brutality.

Lotta fun. Flies by. If you appreciate this genre, you'll like this movie. (There's a special guest "cameo" at the end that'll make you grin like an idiot, too.)

[transmogrifier]

Oh yeah, and sick with the flu at the moment and last night put on Boogie Nights just to see the opening and cheer myself up, and ended up watching the whole thing. Possibly, as of right now, one of my Top 10 Films. It is a perfect evocation of that specific era, with the filmmaking style perfectly complementing the content. And it has so many amazing individual scenes.

[Stay Puft]

Lotta fun. Flies by. If you appreciate this genre, you'll like this movie. (There's a special guest "cameo" at the end that'll make you grin like an idiot, too.)

Haha, that scene was so stupid. Agree that the film is a lotta fun, though. Love the scene when Donnie Yen has to fight each of the school masters one on one using that table as a combat ring.

[MadMan]

Haha, that scene was so stupid. Agree that the film is a lotta fun, though. Love the scene when Donnie Yen has to fight each of the school masters one on one using that table as a combat ring.That scene was my favorite one in the entire movie.