28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Watashi]

I picked a random Match Cutter. It was you.

If I were at home, I would have found a picture of a Match Cutter (maybe you) and photoshopped it onto the described picture.

This joke doesn't work at all if you haven't seen any of Colbert's "Black friend" segments or whatever.
Oh, I thought you just got confused because there is a picture like that of me, but not of Stephen Colbert, but Thomas Lennon.

[soitgoes...]

Pabst recommendations? I've seen nothing.From what I can gather, he's pretty much golden on most everything pre-1932. I've seen 4 of his films and they've all been good, Westfront 1918 and Kameradschaft being the best. I imagine most would say that Pandora's Box, The Loves of Jeanne Ney and Diary of a Lost Girl are his best though.

BTW I decided to shy away from all of the PBR jokes that popped into my head.

[Qrazy]

Pabst recommendations? I've seen nothing.

Blue Ribbon (1844)

[Duncan]

From what I can gather, he's pretty much golden on most everything pre-1932. I've seen 4 of his films and they've all been good, Westfront 1918 and Kameradschaft being the best. I imagine most would say that Pandora's Box, The Loves of Jeanne Ney and Diary of a Lost Girl are his best though. Thanks.


BTW I decided to shy away from all of the PBR jokes that popped into my head. But it would seem Qrazy could not resist.

[Qrazy]

Thanks.

But it would seem Qrazy could not resist.

Hahaha oh man I got you so good! *high fives token Matchcutter*

[megladon8]

I've been thinking of putting together an essay examining why it's no longer "cool" for a character to be smart in the movies.

[transmogrifier]

That's fine. It just seems that most people are content to criticize it based on a very shallow sterotype.

Which you seem willing to do for all strippers that ever lived as well.

Zing!

D. Davis is so very wrong about Sleater-Kinney, it hurts. But I have a nagging suspicion that he is on to something about Miranda July regardinging her annoyingness (performance art having nothing to do with it, really). God, I hated Me You and Everyone...... So monumentally stupid - all the shallow quirk of your typical Little Miss Sunshine stripped of the incidental pleasure of humor in the mistaken grab for profundity that never really existed in the premise in the first place.

[Spinal]

Which you seem willing to do for all strippers that ever lived as well.

Zing!


Adding the word 'zing' with an exclamation point doesn't make this retort mean anything.

[transmogrifier]

Adding the word 'zing' with an exclamation point doesn't make this retort mean anything.

Again with the stereotypes. "Zing" is blameless; it can't choose which retort it will be paired with. Sometimes it rides the coattails of a superbly modulated, pithy takedown, and sometimes it's tacked on to something a typical RT poster might say, forlornly trying to drag the comment into the realm of the readable.

Which is the case here is not for me to say.

[Spinal]

Again with the stereotypes. "Zing" is blameless; it can't choose which retort it will be paired with. Sometimes it rides the coattails of a superbly modulated, pithy takedown, and sometimes it's tacked on to something a typical RT poster might say, forlornly trying to drag the comment into the realm of the readable.

Which is the case here is not for me to say.

Fair enough.

[megladon8]

At 4 posts, this is the longest discussion of the word "ZING!" that I have ever seen.

Congratulations, MatchCut.

[Rowland]

Actually there are about 5-7 MatchCut posters who I talk to on a regular (daily) basis, and I consider really great friends.

I think that's why I often carelessly make inappropriate jokes/comments that few find funny, because I forget that not everyone here "knows" me.Geez, I don't have anyone like that around here. I guess I'm probably not really personable anyway.

[Qrazy]

Geez, I don't have anyone like that around here. I guess I'm probably not really personable anyway.

Yeah, actually I think you're fairly loathed, just an unlikeable person really.

[Rowland]

Yeah, actually I think you're fairly loathed, just an unlikeable person really.I knew it. I should learn to trust my intuition.

[megladon8]

Geez, I don't have anyone like that around here. I guess I'm probably not really personable anyway.


I'll be your friend.

Wanna come over for a sleep-over? I just got a new tent.

[Rowland]

I'll be your friend.

Wanna come over for a sleep-over? I just got a new tent.
:P

Back to movies, if anyone was thinking about it, avoid The Other Boleyn Girl. I felt like seeing something that I knew nothing about, which proved to be a mistake.

[Winston*]

"Talk to"? Like on the phone? Daily?

[megladon8]

:P

Back to movies, if anyone was thinking about it, avoid The Other Boleyn Girl. I felt like seeing something that I knew nothing about, which proved to be a mistake.


A woman in my class said this as well.

It's her very favorite book, and she said the movie was basically a period soap opera, with horrendous dialogue.

[Qrazy]

I knew it. I should learn to trust my intuition.

But don't take my word for it!

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f356/anthony_school/reading-rainbow.gif

[Ezee E]

:P

Back to movies, if anyone was thinking about it, avoid The Other Boleyn Girl. I felt like seeing something that I knew nothing about, which proved to be a mistake.
When a movie starring Natalie Portman, Scarlett Johannson, and Eric Bana comes out, and I only know about it the day it's actually released... Something must be wrong.

[megladon8]

"Talk to"? Like on the phone? Daily?


Phone, MSN, e-mail, etc.

We keep in touch. Some less often than others (once a week/every couple of weeks), but there's constant contact, and it's friendly conversation, not just talk about movies and whatnot.

[Sycophant]

Congratulations on managing to dig up what must surely be the worst Reading Rainbow-related image on the Internet. Seriously. Kudos.

[Sycophant]

Phone, MSN, e-mail, etc.

We keep in touch. Some less often than others (once a week/every couple of weeks), but there's constant contact, and it's friendly conversation, not just talk about movies and whatnot.
"friendly conversation"

"not just talk about movies and whatnot"

I don't understand how these two things can be separate.

[Ezee E]

"friendly conversation"

"not just talk about movies and whatnot"

I don't understand how these two things can be separate.
With some of my friends, I'd say that 95% of our talk is about movies, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Qrazy]

Congratulations on managing to dig up what must surely be the worst Reading Rainbow-related image on the Internet. Seriously. Kudos.

Rep?

http://www.klru.org/readingrainbow/images/readingrainbow_lavar.jpg

[Spinal]

When someone calls me on the phone wanting to talk about whatnot, I hang up immediately.

[megladon8]

"friendly conversation"

"not just talk about movies and whatnot"

I don't understand how these two things can be separate.


I mean that we actually talk about things in our lives, personal situations, etc. We're friends, not just online acquaintances.

[Watashi]

I hope I never meet anyone of you.

Like that number8 and Barty fellow. Who would want to talk to them?

[Rowland]

I mean that we actually talk about things in our lives, personal situations, etc. We're friends, not just online acquaintances.He was kidding. I'm sure we all understand how friends talk.

[Watashi]

He was kidding. I'm sure we all understand how friends talk.
Honest to blog?

[ledfloyd]

I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. Hulk was incredibly bad. The first 45 minutes or so had some promise. The last hour was soooo bad. I wanted to like it to. I guess Ang is capable of making a bad movie.

[Rowland]

Honest to blog?Do you have any bones that need collecting?

[Watashi]

Do you have any bones that need collecting?
That's probably my most detested line in the entire film considering it's Denzel Washington, not Morgan Freeman who stars in The Bone Collector. You'd think Diablo Coyote would have caught that during drafts.

[Rowland]

That's probably my most detested line in the entire film considering it's Denzel Washington, not Morgan Freeman who stars in The Bone Collector. You'd think Diablo Coyote would have caught that during drafts.Oh, but the joke is that Juno is so pseudo-savvy in her precocious cultural wisdom that this is exactly the sort of mistake she would make. You could even classify it as foreshadowing! ;)

My least favorite line is probably still "All babies want to get borned!"

[Spinal]

My least favorite line is probably still "All babies want to get borned!"

Mine is "I listened to Sonic Youth and they're just noise!" or whatever she screams.

[Melville]

Diablo Coyote
:lol:

[Rowland]

Mine is "I listened to Sonic Youth and they're just noise!" or whatever she screams.Obviously she was a fake punk as well. No wonder she duets that shitty song with Cera at the end.

[dreamdead]

Marker's Sans Soleil is fascinating in that I really have no idea how to rate it. Regardless, it's endlessly fascinating, and a wonderful amalgamation of disparate images and ideas. The Coppola and Hitchcock references were the high point for me.

Johnnie To's Election, meanwhile, is disorienting for the first half hour because of the sheer number of characters, but the film has a solid sense of pacing thereafter. Interesting to watch modern and traditional ideas of brotherhood and fraternity war with one another; the sequence with the one hitman beating the guardian of the baton was dazzling in how it evolves. Also, the refusal to bring in gunplay became fascinating once I realized how To was subverting the genre. Not quite the revelation that was Exiled, but solid still.

[lovejuice]

wow, after my cody/kaufman statement, glad that no one yet neg-rep me. :D

[D_Davis]

Johnnie To's Election, meanwhile, is disorienting for the first half hour because of the sheer number of characters, but the film has a solid sense of pacing thereafter. Interesting to watch modern and traditional ideas of brotherhood and fraternity war with one another; the sequence with the one hitman beating the guardian of the baton was dazzling in how it evolves. Also, the refusal to bring in gunplay became fascinating once I realized how To was subverting the genre. Not quite the revelation that was Exiled, but solid still.

Election is not among my favorite To films, but I do like what he does with it.

I appreciate how he simultaneously pays respect to and belittles the triad societies.

He pays respect by showing their ceremonies in a light of great reverence. You can tell that To appreciates the sacred past of the triad societies, one that stems from burning of the original Shaolin Temple.

However, he also shows us how silly these grown men are by introducing the battle for the baton. All the reverence and sacredness of the ceremonies is rendered to nothing because all they really care about is being in possession of some silly piece of wood.

One thing I do love about Election is the score. It is stunning.

[Sycophant]

Glad you enjoyed Election, dreamdead. I'm a terrible Johnnie To whore and this duology represents my favorite of his work, though I know I'm in the minority here. Especially when coupled with Eleciton II/Triad Election, the film's a stunning allegory about the crookedness and deceptive nobility of the PRC's government. I'd recommend checking out the sequel, as I think they're stronger together than individually.

[Philosophe_rouge]

:P

Back to movies, if anyone was thinking about it, avoid The Other Boleyn Girl. I felt like seeing something that I knew nothing about, which proved to be a mistake.
Pretty much, I was dragged with friends. I was surprised that Portman was somewhat good, because NOTHING else was. I mean... nothing.

[MadMan]

So far Chopper is crazy. I must confess I'm having a hard time understanding the Aussie accents though. They are really thick.

WTF Bana is now just standing there, with multiple stab wounds, covered in blood. Holy shit. And now I just saw the image of him lying down with the blood on his face that was used for a previous Match-Cut banner.

I have to add that so far the cinematography and color scheme is really cool, and apparently the director of this film (Andrew something) also made Assassination of Jesse James... as well. At least I think he did.

[Sycophant]

You people and your mid-viewing check-ins. WTF.

[MadMan]

You people and your mid-viewing check-ins. WTF.I hardly do it. This is just one of those times.

[Sven]

Adding to the Banacentric theme of the past little bit, I thought his performance in Munich was an impressive slowburn in retrospect, despite his wavering accent. I think this film would benefit greatly from a rewatch.

[Sycophant]

Adding to the Banacentric theme of the past little bit, I thought his performance in Munich was an impressive slowburn in retrospect, despite his wavering accent. I think this film would benefit greatly from a rewatch.
I've had a major hankering to revisit this one. Maybe this weekend.

[Sven]

Has anyone here seen The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie? Is that movie Weirdsville or what?

[ledfloyd]

I loved Munich. The sex scene towards the end is terribly heavy-handed (you know the one). Other than that I really dug almost everything about it.

[baby doll]

I loved Munich. The sex scene towards the end is terribly heavy-handed (you know the one). Other than that I really dug almost everything about it.You didn't think Marie-Josee Croze's femme fatale was terribly heavy-handed? Or the portentous slow motion shot of Mathieu Kassovitz sliding the key into the bomb trigger that could blow up the guy's little girl? Or Mathieu Amalric's daddy issues? Or about a billion other things in the movie?

[MadMan]

Chopper(2000) was really entertaining, and very crazy. I'm not sure if Eric Banna played the real life Chopper Reed to a tee, but I think according to Reed he did for the most part. Anyways Banna was great in this, aptly portraying a man who started out as a criminal and ended up an insane monster of sorts. Who also inspired a great deal of celebrity worship and became pretty famous for his actions despite his brutality and the fact that um, yeah, he murdered people. To me though that sort of celebrity reminds me of how during the Wild West days outlaws became famous, and how even today people who do very bad things achieve a huge amount of fame oriented notority. Oh and I loved the color schemes and the cinemotography. Both were absolutely gorogous, and I loved how different color hues were used for different moments in the narrative. It very much reminded me of the vivid use of color in Apocalypse Now, which to to me is the most beautiful and stunning film visual wise I've ever seen. 84

I want to see Munich. But on Thursday I will view Weir's Fearless(1993).

[Bosco B Thug]

Man, you all are making it hard for me to like Juno when its worst moments are brought up every several pages or so.

I'm really unsure how I feel about Fat Girl... However, it does so in a fairly meandering manner, such that while it seems to espouse the futility and despair of life, it never makes that futility particularly artistically relevant. The film works somewhat well as a critique of and response to sexuality in the majority of French cinema, but it faulters as meaningful commentary on life in a broader context. I think meandering doesn't work so well regarding Fat Girl - it's very spare and economical with what scenes and dialogue it gives us, which makes its portrait of the sisters' psychological ties with each other very sharp. Not exactly sure what your complaints are, I don't see how sexuality (especially regarding children) can be any less than in a full context with reality, but I think the film presents to us enough (aloof/unstable parents, college break romance, television, semi-trucks) and uses a psychoanalytical tone with enough sentience to really ground the film. And Breillat's directing is great because it makes fascinating what its telling us is completely unremarkable or "textbook." The film seems to scream at all its characters, "Man, you're a pre-diagnosis! We know how this is going to turn out because we know where you got it and we've seen it before!" while they don't hear. In that sense, its got a sort of built-in context since its already a pre-determined, packaged and diagnosed story that's being given the room to unfold and die in a fully-realized (imo - if I needed mimesis for brutish mundanity, yes, semi-trucks ftw) world.

Has anyone here seen The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie? Is that movie Weirdsville or what? This was my 7th grade English teacher's favorite movie and she was weird. Connection?

[Sven]

This was my 7th grade English teacher's favorite movie and she was weird. Connection?

Undoubtedly.

[Qrazy]

I loved Munich. The sex scene towards the end is terribly heavy-handed (you know the one). Other than that I really dug almost everything about it.

Same here on both counts although I'm slightly less positive on it because I find it tries to have it's cake and eat it too. You can't comment effectively on the horror of violence and also revel in the spy genre/thrill ride at the same time.

[Qrazy]

I think meandering doesn't work so well regarding Fat Girl - it's very spare and economical with what scenes and dialogue it gives us, which makes its portrait of the sisters' psychological ties with each other very sharp. Not exactly sure what your complaints are, I don't see how sexuality (especially regarding children) can be any less than in a full context with reality, but I think the film presents to us enough (aloof/unstable parents, college break romance, television, semi-trucks) and uses a psychoanalytical tone with enough sentience to really ground the film. And Breillat's directing is great because it makes fascinating what its telling us is completely unremarkable or "textbook." The film seems to scream at all its characters, "Man, you're a pre-diagnosis! We know how this is going to turn out because we know where you got it and we've seen it before!" while they don't hear. In that sense, its got a sort of built-in context since its already a pre-determined, packaged and diagnosed story that's being given the room to unfold and die in a fully-realized (imo - if I needed mimesis for brutish mundanity, yes, semi-trucks ftw) world.

I don't know... they meet the guy arbitrarily at a restaurant/bar, walk around in the woods, squat naked at the beach, spend a good ten minutes driving at the end. All of this certainly serves a thematic purpose, but it's still fairly narratively meandering.

I'm not following your pre-diagnosis comments. I think I somewhat know what you're talking about but if you could clarify somewhat it would be helpful.

[Bosco B Thug]

I don't know... they meet the guy arbitrarily at a restaurant/bar, walk around in the woods, squat naked at the beach, spend a good ten minutes driving at the end. All of this certainly serves a thematic purpose, but it's still fairly narratively meandering. True, but instead of narrative, I see the scenes falling in line with the film's very specific sense of build-up.

I'm not following your pre-diagnosis comments. I think I somewhat know what you're talking about but if you could clarify somewhat it would be helpful. Hmm, not quite sure if I can, my last post was kind of a "I think I think this is how I think the movie works" post (my clarity and confidence of opinion on films I see for my first time is very very fleeting). I think I'm saying the subject matter is already a social issue of the ages, psychologized and annotized in numerous texts and institutions, so even though we're seeing it mystified again by the film's darker psychologies, it has the context of re-evaluation on two levels: the subject itself of teenage sexual preconceptions, and then also the very world that should be easing them through it (considering all those aforementioned psychological texts) but instead we see is just continuing to isolate and condition it.

[origami_mustache]

Not that this is really news anymore, but I was just reminded that the Guy Maddin's last "Jolly Corner" write up in the Jan/Feb issue of Film Comment was his last. :sad:

[Spinal]

Watching The Castle, I totally forgot that the novel was unfinished. I was wondering how on earth Haneke was going to wrap things up. Then I was like ... oh.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Same here on both counts although I'm slightly less positive on it because I find it tries to have it's cake and eat it too. You can't comment effectively on the horror of violence and also revel in the spy genre/thrill ride at the same time.

You think Spielberg was reveling? I found the film to be very dark throughout its runtime, with the "suspense" sequences generating dread and sadness rather than pulpy excitement.

[Melville]

Same here on both counts although I'm slightly less positive on it because I find it tries to have it's cake and eat it too. You can't comment effectively on the horror of violence and also revel in the spy genre/thrill ride at the same time.
Although the first one or two assassinations were extremely tense, I agree with DaMU that they weren't exciting in a reveling way. But more importantly, the film became less and less thrilling throughout the film, and the assassinations became increasingly perfunctory, as the characters and their ethics became increasingly weary. The final assassination attempt was completely bereft of thrills.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Has anyone here seen The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie? Is that movie Weirdsville or what?
I saw it four years ago, but I do remember the weirdness and liking it. Maggie Smith was great, and the final half hour was pretty interesting in a good way.

[Kurosawa Fan]

The Silent Partner was a pleasant surprise. I watched it last night on a whim, seeing it was OnDemand and starred Elliot Gould and Christopher Plummer. Pretty cool little flick. It had an absolutely pointless romance (with Gould's coworker), but my gosh is Celine Lomez gorgeous.

[Morris Schæffer]

It seems that Patrick Swayze has been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and has about five weeks to live.

:sad:

[Kurosawa Fan]

It seems that Patrick Swayze has been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and has about five weeks to live.

:sad:

The only source I can find is The National Enquirer (seems every news source is quoting them). I sure hope this isn't true, and knowing the source, it very well may not be.

[ledfloyd]

wow, i'm not a huge swayze fan, but i hope that's not true. i watched my grandma die from pancreatic cancer a few years ago and it's not something i'd wish on anybody.

[Qrazy]

You think Spielberg was reveling? I found the film to be very dark throughout its runtime, with the "suspense" sequences generating dread and sadness rather than pulpy excitement.

I agree it was dark and that the sequences generated dread but I still think he wants it both ways. I feel similarly about Saving Private Ryan. As much as he wants to condemn war or assassinations, he still loves his pyrotechnics too much. He likes to make things blow up and look cool, and that's fine but it keeps the film from being as far reaching and poignant in it's condemnation as something like Come and See or The Ascent for instance. Munich is impeccably crafted, but it loses points thematically for me for the above reasons.

[Morris Schæffer]

The only source I can find is The National Enquirer (seems every news source is quoting them). I sure hope this isn't true, and knowing the source, it very well may not be.

Let's hope for the best!

[Philosophe_rouge]

Even if the transfer was anything but, the Naked Spur (1953) was awesome. It's a great psychological western, with few characters and a huge setting. They feel so detached from society, not only in body but in morality and spirit that it's easy to feel as though they're the only people in the world (although they do encounter some Amerindians, at least one of the character's actions doesn't change the fact that they are caught outside society). The film has great action sequences, but it's the psychological wars that make it so thrilling and exciting. The cast is excellent, especially Robert Ryan who while playing a heavy (not really unusual) does it with a strange joyful sadism, which is somewhat unusual for him... the joyful part.

[Rowland]

Even if the transfer was anything but, the Naked Spur (1953) was awesome. It's a great psychological western, with few characters and a huge setting. They feel so detached from society, not only in body but in morality and spirit that it's easy to feel as though they're the only people in the world (although they do encounter some Amerindians, at least one of the character's actions doesn't change the fact that they are caught outside society). The film has great action sequences, but it's the psychological wars that make it so thrilling and exciting. The cast is excellent, especially Robert Ryan who while playing a heavy (not really unusual) does it with a strange joyful sadism, which is somewhat unusual for him... the joyful part.I remember liking this, but for the life of me, I can't remember a damn thing about it. Winchester '73 left more of a lasting impression for me.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Let's hope for the best!

This is from FoxNews:


FOXNews.com's calls to Swayze's reps were not immediately returned. But a "very good source" reportedly told blogger Perez Hilton that Swayze has seemed fine lately.


"Patrick has been at rehearsals for a new cheerleading movie at Century City studio frequently lately, and he definitely does not look like he has 5 more weeks of life left…i'm not sure of his medical condition(s), but if he is gravely ill, he is hiding it very well," the source wrote.

[Raiders]

The Man from Laramie is my favorite Mann western, but all I have seen are good to great.

[Derek]

The Man from Laramie is my favorite Mann western, but all I have seen are good to great.

:eek: Nice! I always thought I was alone in thinking that was his best.

[MadMan]

I've only seen two Mann westerns: The Man From Larmie and Winchester '73 which are both really damn good. I liked the former more than the latter though.

[Raiders]

:eek: Nice! I always thought I was alone in thinking that was his best.

Hm, that rating for Park Row is a little lower than I anticipated.

[megladon8]

So...Audition...

That was quite disturbing.

Reading that the dogbowl full of vomit was actually the actress' vomit was a little much.

But yes, I think it's the best Miike film I've seen so far. It's the first that seemed to have genuine purpose behind the brutally sadistic scenes, rather than being for sheer shock value.

[Wryan]

Swayze's publicist confirmed it.

I made a thread in general before I saw the talk about it here, btw.

[Spinal]

Reading that the dogbowl full of vomit was actually the actress' vomit was a little much.

Where did you read that?

EDIT: Never mind. Found it on the IMDb trivia. I really hope that this was a joke made in an interview that has been misinterpreted in translation.

[megladon8]

Having the son studying dinosaurs was a nice little touch, which evoked a laugh from me at one point.

[megladon8]

Is Audition a film that's already been discussed to death?

I typically avoided discussions of it so that it wouldn't be spoiled - and I'm glad, because the shock of the ending events would have really been cut down if I knew what to expect.

I'm sure others noticed the little bit of black comedy in the son studying dinosaurs...

[Boner M]

Late Spring was quite the film. The final scene is just devastating.

[Stay Puft]

I watched My Life to Live recently, and went back to Raider's Top 100 list to read his review. Props to you, sir. An excellent piece, and helped me sort out some thoughts on the film. I rather enjoyed it (the movie and the review).

I'll try and watch Ugetsu monogatari later this week and uphold my part of the last film swap. Almost forgot about it!

[Qrazy]

Yeah... Late Spring and My Life to Live do nothing for me and are the only two films in the Hall of Fame I don't think deserve to be there.

[megladon8]

I have had the Criterion of Ugetsu sitting in my DVD stack for over a year now.

Jen gave it to me, and we want to watch it together, but it's one we always seem to either forget about or we don't feel we're "in the mood" for it.

[origami_mustache]

Late Spring was quite the film. The final scene is just devastating.

found this Late Spring appreciation video on youtube...beautiful images from the film and I really like the music.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=P7m1GdMLrGk&feature=related

[Stay Puft]

I have had the Criterion of Ugetsu sitting in my DVD stack for over a year now.

I recorded it off IFC (using VHS!) about four years ago. And proceeded to never watch it. I have the Criterion disc now. I don't even know where my tapes went. Which is too bad, because I also had Three Outlaw Samurai and Samurai Spy.

[megladon8]

I recorded it off IFC (using VHS!) about four years ago. And proceeded to never watch it. I have the Criterion disc now. I don't even know where my tapes went. Which is too bad, because I also had Three Outlaw Samurai and Samurai Spy.


Ooo...both of those are films that have been at the top of my "must see samurai films" list, but the first is not available on DVD, and the second is a mighty-expensive Criterion.

Have you seen The Sword of Doom? It is one of my absolutely favorites - in my top 10-20 of all time. And it's a film that doesn't get near enough respect 'round these here parts...in fact, not enough people have even seen it.

[Boner M]

found this Late Spring appreciation video on youtube...beautiful images from the film and I really like the music.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=P7m1GdMLrGk&feature=related
Much thanks, that's one of the best fan-made music-montages I've seen. I thought the music sounded a little bit like Toumani Diabete at first, and then I clicked on the tags to see that he was one of the musicians in the group. Love that guy.

[Qrazy]

Samurai Spy is a lot of fun. Ugetsu is a masterpiece.

[Stay Puft]

Ooo...both of those are films that have been at the top of my "must see samurai films" list, but the first is not available on DVD, and the second is a mighty-expensive Criterion.

Three Outlaw Samurai is a lot of fun, and has some memorable set pieces. It's not great, but it's enjoyable. Strong sense of style, probably more accomplished than Goyokin, as far as action goes.

Samurai Spy I didn't care for as much, but I won't deny it's worth seeing. It has some striking compositions. Both have Tetsuro Tamba, so you can't go wrong there.


Have you seen The Sword of Doom? It is one of my absolutely favorites - in my top 10-20 of all time. And it's a film that doesn't get near enough respect 'round these here parts...in fact, not enough people have even seen it.

Afraid not. But it has been at the top of my "must see samurai films" list! I'll probably spring for the Criterion disc at some point. I have a copy of Okamoto's previous film, Samurai Assassin, which is damn good. Heavy on dialogue, but surprisingly engaging all the same. The ending is remarkable.

[megladon8]

Three Outlaw Samurai is a lot of fun, and has some memorable set pieces. It's not great, but it's enjoyable. Strong sense of style, probably more accomplished than Goyokin, as far as action goes.

Samurai Spy I didn't care for as much, but I won't deny it's worth seeing. It has some striking compositions. Both have Tetsuro Tamba, so you can't go wrong there.

How did you see Three Outlaw Samurai? Do you have a burn of it? One you could perhaps burn for me? :)



Afraid not. But it has been at the top of my "must see samurai films" list! I'll probably spring for the Criterion disc at some point. I have a copy of Okamoto's previous film, Samurai Assassin, which is damn good. Heavy on dialogue, but surprisingly engaging all the same. The ending is remarkable.


Jen has a bootleg of the Criterion disc, which I could try to burn for you if you'd like?

[Sycophant]

you never asked. woody was unstoppable in the 80s.
After watching September last night, that has rarely seemed truer. And it usually seems pretty damned true.

New York Stories begs to differ.
But I am still deficient on a few Allen films, true, even some from the eighties, like that.

As does September. Yeesh.
Oh no. This isn't consensus... is it?

i agree new york stories blows, but i love september.:pritch:

[Sven]

Oh no. This isn't consensus... is it?

'Tis, 'tis.

I like it, though. For what that's worth. Go read up on the production of the movie. It's interesting.

[origami_mustache]

I haven't seen the other two segments of New York Stories, but I've seen Scorsese's Life Lessons twice and found it to be pretty solid. :confused:

[Stay Puft]

How did you see Three Outlaw Samurai? Do you have a burn of it? One you could perhaps burn for me? :)

Jen has a bootleg of the Criterion disc, which I could try to burn for you if you'd like?

I can get it off zip.ca, so don't worry about it. But thanks.

I saw Three Outlaw Samurai on IFC. I'll try and dig around my basement tomorrow and let you know if I find my old tapes. There's a good rip of it on KG, too.

[megladon8]

I can get it off zip.ca, so don't worry about it. But thanks.

I saw Three Outlaw Samurai on IFC. I'll try and dig around my basement tomorrow and let you know if I find my old tapes. There's a good rip of it on KG, too.


What is KG?

*ignorant*

[Winston*]

What is KG?

*ignorant*

Karagarga, a torrent site for non-mainstream movies and things. Can't access it at all unless you get an invite from an existing member; there were a bunch of invites posted here a while back.

[Sven]

Karagarga, a torrent site for non-mainstream movies and things. Can't access it at all unless you get an invite from an existing member; there were a bunch of invites posted here a while back.

...

A snark free Winston post?

:eek:

[Stay Puft]

What is KG?

*ignorant*

See Winston's post.

See also:
http://www.match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=596

If you want an invite I'm sure someone could help you out.

[Winston*]

...

A snark free Winston post?

:eek:

Tryin' to tone down the snark. Positive vibes, man.

[megladon8]

See Winston's post.

See also:
http://www.match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=596

If you want an invite I'm sure someone could help you out.


Eh, it's not a big deal.

I never really got deeply into downloading movies. I used uTorrent a bit last year (got The Tripper, Tales From Earthsea, and a couple others), but it's just not a trend I've really taken up.

[Ezee E]

Tryin' to tone down the snark. Positive vibes, man.
Bout time. That high you've gotten after the dragon slaying gave you the biggest ego.


Anyways, Scream is on TV. Forgot how great that movie is. Like, top 50 worthy.

[Ezee E]

Y'know what movie is an awful like Scream?

Funny Games.

[Qrazy]

Bout time. That high you've gotten after the dragon slaying gave you the biggest ego.


Anyways, Scream is on TV. Forgot how great that movie is. Like, top 50,000 worthy.

Fixed.

Juno was OK. I agree with people who feel the dialogue is fairly obnoxious. I also agree with those who feel that most of it stems from the protagonist's insecurity. The plotting of the script is decent and it's not as if there are many films about high school pregnancy or adoption so it earns some points for that. On the flip side the script and screenwriter seem to share its protagonist's insecurity. Not much is ever risked, and therefore not much is gained. In so far as the protagonist masks her emotions the film masks it's emotions. Psychological and cinematic depth are exchanged for zingers (towards the nurse, jock, etc) and feel good endings. Still, it's much more enjoyable to sit through than the pure Hollywood alternative.

[Wryan]

Sat my dad down to watch Throne of Blood. I love the film, but this viewing reminded me that Kurosawa occasionally bludgeons a point, here when the two men are riding back and forth in the fog in the beginning about twenty times; and in Seven Samurai when drunk Mifune is hilariously staggering about while the men laugh at him, again almost ad nauseum; and in Ikiru.....almost everything. Whoops. Said that outloud. Love the wake!

[Wryan]

/contented sigh

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2023/1821933492_2492f6adcd_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2043/1821932540_e8662aada7_o.jpg

[DavidSeven]

[...]this viewing reminded me that Kurosawa occasionally bludgeons a point [...] in Ikiru.....almost everything.

Yep. The wake put me to sleep.

[/Nick]

[Wryan]

Yep. The wake put me to sleep.

[/Nick]

Not sure if this is a reference to something, but I actually liked the wake the most out of the entire film. :)

[Melville]

Sat my dad down to watch Throne of Blood. I love the film, but this viewing reminded me that Kurosawa occasionally bludgeons a point, here when the two men are riding back and forth in the fog in the beginning about twenty times; and in Seven Samurai when drunk Mifune is hilariously staggering about while the men laugh at him, again almost ad nauseum; and in Ikiru.....almost everything. Whoops. Said that outloud. Love the wake!
You said what we've all been thinking... or at least what I've been thinking. (Especially the concerns about speaking out loud what I write on the internet.)

[Qrazy]

You said what we've all been thinking... or at least what I've been thinking. (Especially the concerns about speaking out loud what I write on the internet.)

No.

Kurosawa is tits and anyone who does not recognize how tits he is, is less tits.

[ledfloyd]

My first experience with Bresson is quite positive. I rather liked Pickpocket, even though it's not going to crack my top 5 for 1959, ridiculously great year. It does however lock up the 6 spot.

[DavidSeven]

Not sure if this is a reference to something, but I actually liked the wake the most out of the entire film. :)

You and I are like Jerry/Bizarro Jerry in regards to that film.

[Melville]

No.

Kurosawa is tits and anyone who does not recognize how tits he is, is less tits.
I've never understood his supposed greatness. The marching forest in Throne of Blood and the killer shrieking despairingly at the beauty of the world in Stray Dog are brilliant. Everything else is just serviceable.

[DavidSeven]

I've never understood his supposed greatness. The marching forest in Throne of Blood and the killer shrieking despairingly at the beauty of the world in Stray Dog are brilliant. Everything else is just serviceable.

Whoa. Let's not start saying things that we can't take back.

[Sven]

I've never understood his supposed greatness. The marching forest in Throne of Blood and the killer shrieking despairingly at the beauty of the world in Stray Dog are brilliant. Everything else is just serviceable.

:|

Had I known this, I would've disallowed your participation in the top 100 thread.

I kid, I kid. Still, youch.

[origami_mustache]

I've never understood his supposed greatness. The marching forest in Throne of Blood and the killer shrieking despairingly at the beauty of the world in Stray Dog are brilliant. Everything else is just serviceable.

:crazy:

[megladon8]

I heart Kurosawa.

While Ran is my favorite, I can't say I've seen a bad film by him.

I'm so glad I rewatched Seven Samurai last year and corrected myself in thinking it was mediocre.

[Qrazy]

I've never understood his supposed greatness. The marching forest in Throne of Blood and the killer shrieking despairingly at the beauty of the world in Stray Dog are brilliant. Everything else is just serviceable.

How are Rashomon, Ran, and Seven Samurai just serviceable? I have never seen another film like Dersu Uzala anywhere.

[Spinal]

Cheeky certainly lived up to the title. There are certainly lots of cheeks in this film. It became comical after a while because the actors would be having a conversation about some serious disagreement in their characters' relationship, doing their best to bring heartfelt emotion to the scene and yet the camera would be at pelvis level for most of it. At one point we see the boyfriend arguing on the phone with the lead character. He is upset with her because she cannot stay faithful. At the end of the conversation we cut to the other end of the line and see her nude in her apartment. She bursts into tears and collapses to the floor. At this point, the camera zooms in quickly on her bare ass. Hilarious. Absolutely nothing to do with the content of the scene (but everything to do with the purpose of the film).

In other words, I highly recommend it.

[Sycophant]

I've never understood his supposed greatness. The marching forest in Throne of Blood and the killer shrieking despairingly at the beauty of the world in Stray Dog are brilliant. Everything else is just serviceable.Well, there's something you don't read every day!

[Watashi]

Weekend:

The Mission (1999)
About a Boy
We Own the Night
10,000 B.C.
Black Orpheus

[Dead & Messed Up]

Have you seen The Sword of Doom? It is one of my absolutely favorites - in my top 10-20 of all time. And it's a film that doesn't get near enough respect 'round these here parts...in fact, not enough people have even seen it.

The last twenty minutes go off the deep end in the best way possible. I remember watching Sword of Doom and remembering the reviews I'd read, most of which said, "It's good, but wait until the ending."

And wow. What a way to end.

Apparently it's based on an enormous Japanese legend, one much longer than the film, but the backers couldn't afford to follow it up.

[Duncan]

I've never understood his supposed greatness. The marching forest in Throne of Blood and the killer shrieking despairingly at the beauty of the world in Stray Dog are brilliant. Everything else is just serviceable.

Maybe he's been imitated so often that it appears this way? Even his worst work seems better that just serviceable.

[Qrazy]

The below comment, in relation to the Diablo Cody topless pic, cracked me up for some reason.

Riiiiight... Anyone got any pics of the writer of Napoleon Dynamite nude? How about the writer of Superbad taking a shit?

[Ezee E]

The below comment, in relation to the Diablo Cody topless pic, cracked me up for some reason.

Riiiiight... Anyone got any pics of the writer of Napoleon Dynamite nude? How about the writer of Superbad taking a shit?
Guess I have to know what the rest of the article is about to understand why it's funny.

Anyways, The Corner remains just as powerful in its fourth episode as it does since its first. Great stuff. The Wire actually reuses some of the incidents in its show.

[Melville]

I can't say I've seen a bad film by him.
I can't say I've seen a bad film by him, but I also can't say I've seen a great film by him, either.


How are Rashomon, Ran, and Seven Samurai just serviceable? I have never seen another film like Dersu Uzala anywhere.
*shrug* I haven't seen Dersu Uzala, but I just don't see anything exceptional about the other three. Nothing stands out as being particularly good or bad in any of them, although they are all prone to the violent overstatedness that Wryan pointed out.


Maybe he's been imitated so often that it appears this way?
I don't think so. There are plenty of directors who have been imitated often but who I still think are great.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I... I don't... what... I....

*leaves thread*

[Grouchy]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ght. Ok, moving on, nothing to see here, another subject, please, gentlemen.

Remember we were talking Eurotic cinema a while back? I watched The Beast. Jesus Christ's Lust for Glory, what a film. Hardcore stuff about bestiality, incarnated in a French werewolf legend, with plenty of cock and crotch close-ups and on-screen horse fucking. Terrible pacing, though - the editor didn't know when to stop a shot, and the movie could easily be half an hour shorter and it would be more endurable. I also thought the flashback/hallucination scenes were a bad idea as well.

[MacGuffin]

Cheeky certainly lived up to the title. There are certainly lots of cheeks in this film. It became comical after a while because the actors would be having a conversation about some serious disagreement in their characters' relationship, doing their best to bring heartfelt emotion to the scene and yet the camera would be at pelvis level for most of it. At one point we see the boyfriend arguing on the phone with the lead character. He is upset with her because she cannot stay faithful. At the end of the conversation we cut to the other end of the line and see her nude in her apartment. She bursts into tears and collapses to the floor. At this point, the camera zooms in quickly on her bare ass. Hilarious. Absolutely nothing to do with the content of the scene (but everything to do with the purpose of the film).

In other words, I highly recommend it.

Yeah, from what I saw, this looked fun. But does Netflix have the uncut Tinto Brass DVDs? In other words, how long was your copy? Because I rented All Ladies Do It and this, and I didn't finish watching them because they didn't seem like the full versions or something. Either way, yeah, maybe I'll rent this one again sometime.

[Spinal]

Yeah, from what I saw, this looked fun. But does Netflix have the uncut Tinto Brass DVDs?

It was plenty explicit. It certainly didn't seem like it had been cut for content.

[Morris Schæffer]

Well, we all know my feelings on Ran I suppose.:twisted:

[Melville]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ght. Ok, moving on, nothing to see here, another subject, please, gentlemen.
Says the man who prefers The Wild Bunch to Andrei Rublev.

[Raiders]

Says the man who prefers The Wild Bunch to Andrei Rublev.

He's a smart man.

[Benny Profane]

I can't say I was too impressed by Rashomon. I think it's all the yelling and overacting that diminishes it in my taste. Plus the story was kinda meh. And the premise that it was the "worst thing" the character has ever seen didn't really hold water. People lying in court? Seemed like one big exaggeration after another.

But it was OK.

[origami_mustache]

Weekend:
Curb Your Enthusiasm: Season 6: Disc 2
Christmas In July
The Miracle of Morgan's Creek

[Melville]

He's a smart man.
Bah. I'm not saying Andrei Rublev is bigger than Jesus or better than Jesus, but...

[Ezee E]

Weekend:
Election
Body Snatchers (Ferrera version)
The Corner

The Wire - FINAL EPISODE.
I was thinking of checking out The Bank Job, but we'll see.

[Sycophant]

This conversation is making me feel icky. I may need to watch one of the Kurosawas I have on DVD but haven't seen this weekend, like The Bad Sleep Well.

But I probably won't. This is what I expect my weekend to look like:
Boys N The Hood
Pierrot Le Fou (rewatch
Vengeance Is Mine
Superman Returns
Dororo
All About Ah Long
The Wire series finale

I'd love to be watching Curb Your Enthusiasm season six, but Netflix has it on Long Wait.

[Ezee E]

Bah. I'm not saying Andrei Rublev is bigger than Jesus or better than Jesus, but...
Rublev is no Peckinpah.

[Grouchy]

I can't say I was too impressed by Rashomon. I think it's all the yelling and overacting that diminishes it in my taste. Plus the story was kinda meh. And the premise that it was the "worst thing" the character has ever seen didn't really hold water. People lying in court? Seemed like one big exaggeration after another.

But it was OK.
But you're not considering the influence of Noh theatre in Kurosawa, where some performers wear masks and the acting is generally dramatic and excessive.


Rublev is no Peckinpah.
You, ma'am, are as bloody right as anyone ever was that stepped on this Earth.

[Benny Profane]

But you're not considering the influence of Noh theatre in Kurosawa, where some performers wear masks and the acting is generally dramatic and excessive.



Why should I care about the influence? I mean, it may help me understand where it's coming from, but it makes no difference as to whether I'll like it or not.

[D_Davis]

Says the man who prefers The Wild Bunch to Andrei Rublev.

Any sane man would.

:)

[Grouchy]

Why should I care about the influence? I mean, it may help me understand where it's coming from, but it makes no difference as to whether I'll like it or not.
Well, I can't do anything with what you like or dislike. But if you understand it, you'll realize it's a directorial choice and not poor acting.

[Ezee E]

The acting in some of Kurosawa's fans has distracted me a little, but that's why I have High & Low, and Ikiru on the top of my list for him.

[Spinal]

Ahhh ... The Wild Bunch vs. Andrei Rublev ...

Would I rather be bored senseless by mind-numbing violence or opaque Christian symbolism? Tough call, Match Cut. Tough call.

[Spinal]

The acting in Kurosawa's films should only bother you if you feel that realism is the only barometer for effectiveness.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Any sane man would.

:)
Or sane woman.

[Grouchy]

Cheeky certainly lived up to the title. There are certainly lots of cheeks in this film. It became comical after a while because the actors would be having a conversation about some serious disagreement in their characters' relationship, doing their best to bring heartfelt emotion to the scene and yet the camera would be at pelvis level for most of it. At one point we see the boyfriend arguing on the phone with the lead character. He is upset with her because she cannot stay faithful. At the end of the conversation we cut to the other end of the line and see her nude in her apartment. She bursts into tears and collapses to the floor. At this point, the camera zooms in quickly on her bare ass. Hilarious. Absolutely nothing to do with the content of the scene (but everything to do with the purpose of the film).

In other words, I highly recommend it.
I didn't realize at first I've seen this film under a different title - Tra(sgre)dire or Carla. Undeniably cool movie. Tinto's films are often like that, with zooms and pans reinforcing the sexual element even when it's not absolutely essential to the scene. The party scene with all the buttocks is awesome on this one, as is the torture one where they're on the boat.

[dreamdead]

Weekend:

Andrei Rublev :twisted:
L'Avventura
Trouble in Paradise
Strictly Ballroom

Spring break for us after Friday, so intense moviewatching will resume briefly.

[Spinal]

Tinto's films are often like that, with zooms and pans reinforcing the sexual element even when it's not absolutely essential to the scene.

I watched the 10-minute behind the scenes documentary because I wanted to hear what this guy would have to say about his work. He said that women are expert liars and that you can't tell if they are lying by looking at their faces. However, you can tell by looking at their ass. He said that the ass is the mirror to the soul. This seemed like a shaky hypothesis to me, but he has done more research in the field than I have, so I will have to concede to his expertise on the matter.

[D_Davis]

Or sane woman.

Okay! I didn't want to cast my blanket statement too wide.

[Raiders]

I watched the 10-minute behind the scenes documentary because I wanted to hear what this guy would have to say about his work. He said that women are expert liars and that you can't tell if they are lying by looking at their faces. However, you can tell by looking at their ass. He said that the ass is the mirror to the soul. This seemed like a shaky hypothesis to me, but he has done more research in the field than I have, so I will have to concede to his expertise on the matter.

I know that when speaking to a woman, I am more likely to look at her ass than face. So, he's probably on to something.

[balmakboor]

I know that when speaking to a woman, I am more likely to look at her ass than face. So, he's probably on to something.

What are you? Some kind of contortionist?

[Qrazy]

Wow, I just, wow.

Andrei Rublev may well be the greatest film ever made. Peckinpah isn't fit to stand in Tarkovsky's shadow.

And Kurosawa has made some of the most beautiful, most poignant films ever. Kurosawa is cinema.

[balmakboor]

Wow, I just, wow.

Andrei Rublev may well be the greatest film ever made. Peckinpah isn't fit to stand in Tarkovsky's shadow.

And Kurosawa has made some of the most beautiful, most poignant films ever. Kurosawa is cinema.

I count three sizable overstatements here. But that's ok. I too love to exaggerate at times

[megladon8]

Sorry it's a little late, but responding to a post earlier on the page...

I can't fathom being bored by The Wild Bunch.

[Spinal]

Sorry it's a little late, but responding to a post earlier on the page...

I can't fathom being bored by The Wild Bunch.

That's because you like people shooting each other more than I do.

[megladon8]

That's because you like people shooting each other more than I do.


And because it's a fantastic movie, people shooting each other aside.

[Spinal]

And because it's a fantastic movie, people shooting each other aside.

You really think you would like it without the people shooting each other? I'm skeptical.

[megladon8]

You really think you would like it without the people shooting each other? I'm skeptical.


You seem to think I'm some kind of violence-hungry savage.

I do like dialogue, story and characters you know :P

[D_Davis]

Andrei Rublev may well be the greatest film ever made. Peckinpah isn't fit to stand in Tarkovsky's shadow.

You really like Russian things, don't you?

[Spinal]

You seem to think I'm some kind of violence-hungry savage.

I do like dialogue, story and characters you know :P

Well, we don't need to put a negative spin on it. It's just a matter of taste. Is there any sound reason for me to give a Tinto Brass film three stars? Of course not. But it has content which appeals to me.

[megladon8]

Wow, I just, wow.

Andrei Rublev may well be the greatest film ever made. Peckinpah isn't fit to stand in Tarkovsky's shadow.

And Kurosawa has made some of the most beautiful, most poignant films ever. Kurosawa is cinema.


I find it strange how you were the one always calling people out for making "straw man arguments", yet you are perhaps the worst perpetrator of this :)

[Qrazy]

I count three sizable overstatements here. But that's ok. I too love to exaggerate at times

No, they're pretty much right on the mark.

[megladon8]

Well, we don't need to put a negative spin on it. It's just a matter of taste. Is there any sound reason for me to give a Tinto Brass film three stars? Of course not. But it has content which appeals to me.


I know, I'm just saying that I think there's great stuff to be found in The Wild Bunch outside of violence.

Much like Once Upon a Time in the West, it's a love letter to a dying genre.

[Qrazy]

You really like Russian things, don't you?

Yeah I'd say Russian and Japanese are the aesthetics I am most in tune with.

[Qrazy]

I find it strange how you were the one always calling people out for making "straw man arguments", yet you are perhaps the worst perpetrator of this :)

?

None of those are straw man arguments.

[DavidSeven]

Jean-Luc Godard's worst contribution to film culture was probably the "...is cinema" line.

[Spinal]

Saying Kurosawa is cinema is a little much. No one person is cinema.

However, the part about making some of the most beautiful, poignant films ever is the opposite of outrageous. It's conventional wisdom.

[megladon8]

?

None of those are straw man arguments.


They're pretty broad matter-of-fact statements.

And you do make flimsy arguments quite frequently, then call others out for doing the same thing.

But it's fine - it's all part of "you". :pritch:

[Sycophant]

Well, we don't need to put a negative spin on it. It's just a matter of taste. Is there any sound reason for me to give a Tinto Brass film three stars? Of course not. But it has content which appeals to me.
If I'm not exactly an ass man, will there be anything else I find rewarding in his work? I have one or two of his films coming up on my queue soon.

Of course, sheer enthusiasm for asses is something I'm sympathetic to, so even if I'm not big on the ass fixation myself, I can get down with the film's ass fixation if it's fun enough.

[Qrazy]

Jean-Luc Godard's worst contribution to film culture was probably the "...is cinema" line.

No, it was probably his career for the past 30 years.

[Qrazy]

They're pretty broad matter-of-fact statements.

And you do make flimsy arguments quite frequently, then call others out for doing the same thing.

But it's fine - it's all part of "you". :pritch:

That's still not what a straw man argument means.

[Qrazy]

Saying Kurosawa is cinema is a little much. No one person is cinema.


Kurosawa's lawyers beg to differ.

[DavidSeven]

No, it was probably his career for the past 30 years.

That would be true if his career had actually contributed to film culture over the past 30 years.

[Spinal]

I know, I'm just saying that I think there's great stuff to be found in The Wild Bunch outside of violence.

Much like Once Upon a Time in the West, it's a love letter to a dying genre.

It's difficult for me to separate The Wild Bunch from its violent content. It seems to me to be its raison d'etre.

Four decades later, we're still getting Westerns that are love letters to a dying genre. I wonder how long that will last.

[Raiders]

Four decades later, we're still getting Westerns that are love letters to a dying genre. I wonder how long that will last.

We are? Besides, Peckinpah's film isn't a love letter to the genre as much as it is a poignant study of the same territory the Coens just eviscerated.

[D_Davis]

Yeah I'd say Russian and Japanese are the aesthetics I am most in tune with.

I can understand this. I wonder if there is a phrase in Russian similar to the mono no aware in Japanese? It would make sense to me if there were, because there are some definite similarities between Russian and Japanese aesthetics.

[megladon8]

I thought The Wild Bunch was very much an epitaph for the "cowboy" archetype - the heroic figure riding into the sunset.

[megladon8]

I can understand this. I wonder if there is a phrase in Russian similar to the mono no aware in Japanese? It would make sense to me if there were, because there are some definite similarities between Russian and Japanese aesthetics.


When I was a kid, I didn't realize it was "domo arigato"...I thought the full phrase was actually "domo arigato mister roboto".

[Spinal]

If I'm not exactly an ass man, will there be anything else I find rewarding in his work? I have one or two of his films coming up on my queue soon.

Of course, sheer enthusiasm for asses is something I'm sympathetic to, so even if I'm not big on the ass fixation myself, I can get down with the film's ass fixation if it's fun enough.

I don't know that there's anything particularly exceptional about his grasp of cinema, but the films are well-lit, the camera angles have variety, the pacing is brisk and there is very little boring stuff in between the fun stuff. Also, the film absolutely objectifies women, but there is nothing in it that strikes me as being mean-spirited. I would call it excellent for what it is, but it certainly does not have aspirations beyond titilation.

But hey, people seem to be OK with considering Russ Meyer and Doris Wishman legitimately worthy of serious critique, so why not Tinto?

[Spinal]

We are?

Isn't that how people have been interpreting the Jesse James film? I thought so, but I didn't read the discussions in too much detail.

[Sycophant]

It seems at least one Western every year or two gets called a "love letter to a dying genre." Whether they actually are or not is of course open to debate, but people certainly throw that around pretty much every time one comes out of the gate.

Kind of like how one or two musicals every year "revive" the genre and some musicians have "comeback" albums every two years.

[/generalizing]

[Spinal]

It seems at least one Western every year or two gets called a "love letter to a dying genre." Whether they actually are or not is of course open to debate, but people certainly throw that around pretty much every time one comes out of the gate.

That was my impression as well. Glad it's not just me.

[DavidSeven]

It seems every Western is labeled as a love letter, rejuvenation or demystification of the genre.

[megladon8]

But...The Wild Bunch came out over 40 years ago...

When "a love letter to the dying genre" was actually relevant.

I agree, though, that too many new movies are labelled as such. Why can't they just be westerns in their own right?

[Spinal]

If The Wild Bunch is a love letter, it's the meanest, nastiest love letter I ever done seen. :)

[Qrazy]

That would be true if his career had actually contributed to film culture over the past 30 years.

Well I suppose that depends how you define culture, although narrow definitions necessarily lack much generalizability.

[D_Davis]

If The Wild Bunch is a love letter, it's the meanest, nastiest love letter I ever done seen. :)

I don't think it is a love letter at all. If anything, it is a postmodern deconstruction of a heroic archetype whose time had come and gone. I think it is more of a commentary on our society's growing cynicism towards our heroes and the fall of a easily distinguishable set of morals with which we can assign to our heroes or villains.

[lovejuice]

why on earth does someone want to write a love letter to some dying thing? if i made western, it would be mocking, spit-in-your-face hate mail to the dying genre.

[megladon8]

I don't think it is a love letter at all. If anything, it is a postmodern deconstruction of a heroic archetype whose time had come and gone. I think it is more of a commentary on our society's growing cynicism towards our heroes and the fall of a easily distinguishable set of morals with which we can assign to our heroes or villains.


I suppose this is what I meant with regards to my "love letter" comment.

Though not so much the cynicism, as, well, a look at a typically romantic figure, put in a decidedly unromantic world.

Maybe that is cynicism...I don't know, I'm very tired.

[Spinal]

Though not so much the cynicism, as, well, a look at a typically romantic figure, put in a decidedly unromantic world.

Which character in The Wild Bunch would you call a romantic figure? Or do you just mean 'the cowboy' in general?

[MacGuffin]

It was plenty explicit. It certainly didn't seem like it had been cut for content.

Was it dubbed in English?

[megladon8]

Which character in The Wild Bunch would you call a romantic figure? Or do you just mean 'the cowboy' in general?


Yes, the "cowboy" in general.

I could very much see William Holden's character as a rootable hero in another movie, but here he's obviously very far from that.

[Spinal]

Was it dubbed in English?

I think it starts out with a little dubbed English (since the film is set in England), but most of the film had subtitles.

[Spinal]

Yes, the "cowboy" in general.

I could very much see William Holden's character as a rootable hero in another movie, but here he's obviously very far from that.

I should probably give this film another try at some point, but man, I just remember it being really, really long. And there's so much else I want to see.

[MacGuffin]

I think it starts out with a little dubbed English (since the film is set in England), but most of the film had subtitles.

Okay, that's the uncut version. I'll likely rent it then. Have you seen Nazi Love Camp 27?

[Sycophant]

I should probably give this film another try at some point, but man, I just remember it being really, really long. And there's so much else I want to see.I should see the film. But I can sympathize. When the main thing you can remember about a film is that it's long--especially for a film under 2.5 hours long--that's not a lot of incentive to go back.

[number8]

Speaking of westerns, I saw Blood Brothers last night. It sucks ass.

[ledfloyd]

i plan to watch pat garret and billy the kid this weekend. can't wait. i'm on a dylan kick recently.

[MadMan]

It's difficult for me to separate The Wild Bunch from its violent content. It seems to me to be its raison d'etre.

Four decades later, we're still getting Westerns that are love letters to a dying genre. I wonder how long that will last.I hope it will last forever. I'll always go see westerns. To me they are the perfect mix of machoism and a certain ideal and belief system (the concept of the individual, something that the US has always been big on; also in terms of the person taking care of the shit as much as possible without relying on the state). I'd dive into this more but now that I think about it a great essay on the western and its ideals would be more suitable and best posted in a seperate thread. All I know is that its all more than just guns in dusters killing one another. The wild west was a rather violent place so yeah gunfights and killing is just par for the course.


Ahhh ... The Wild Bunch vs. Andrei Rublev ...

Would I rather be bored senseless by mind-numbing violence or opaque Christian symbolism? Tough call, Match Cut. Tough call.Wild Bunch? Boring? This is madness. And if anyone makes a 300 joke I will neg rep them.


I... I don't... what... I....

*leaves thread*See what you did Meville. You broke KF's heart. He may never post in here again.

:P

I honestly don't feel I can properly address the Wild Bunch or the western in general without revisiting the film again and also creating a rather large essay that would require research. Since I don't really like doing research unless its for school or academic purposes, that essay is likely to be full of mostly my own opinion and based on the westerns I have seen.

[megladon8]

I should probably give this film another try at some point, but man, I just remember it being really, really long. And there's so much else I want to see.


Oh I totally understand. It's just that, at the beginning of our convo., I got the impression that you thought I only liked it for the bloodshed.

Which isn't true.

But I love talking about and discovering westerns.

There are so many I haven't seen. I consider myself an enormous fan of the genre, but I'm not even close to being knowledgable.

[Spinal]

Have you seen Nazi Love Camp 27?

If I had a nickel for every time somebody asked me that ...

No.

[megladon8]

Speaking of westerns, I saw Blood Brothers last night. It sucks ass.


You mean this? (http://imdb.com/title/tt0072717/)

It's the only western I could find with that title.

And if that's the one...then I can't say I'm surprised. It looks pretty bad.

[D_Davis]

I should probably give this film another try at some point, but man, I just remember it being really, really long. And there's so much else I want to see.

It is really long, and it feels like it.

[MacGuffin]

If I had a nickel for every time somebody asked me that ...

No.

Probably gonna watch it soon. I guess it's Salon Kitty's long lost bastard brother.

[Qrazy]

I should probably give this film another try at some point, but man, I just remember it being really, really long. And there's so much else I want to see.

Lord knows Frivolous Lola isn't going to view itself.

[Sycophant]

Speaking of westerns, I saw Blood Brothers last night. It sucks ass.Which one? The Alexi Tan one?

[number8]

No, it's a 2007 Chinese movie. I'm sure Davis can fill in the details. :P

[Spinal]

Oh I totally understand. It's just that, at the beginning of our convo., I got the impression that you thought I only liked it for the bloodshed.

I guess what I meant is that enjoying that aspect makes you more likely to look for the finer points of it, whereas it just tends to put me in an impatient, uncharitable mood.

[lovejuice]

Speaking of westerns, I saw Blood Brothers last night. It sucks ass.

the bullet-in-the-head remake, right? damn, that's one amateurish film. i have this funny feeling that all the big names are sniggering, watching this movie, and saying to themselves "look, how cute are those kids. pretending to make movie and be like us."

[Qrazy]

i plan to watch pat garret and billy the kid this weekend. can't wait. i'm on a dylan kick recently.

Dylan is an awful actor and the film is a mixed bag, but some scenes are just tremendous... i.e. Knocking on Heaven's Door.

[number8]

Which one? The Alexi Tan one?

Yep

[Spinal]

Lord knows Frivolous Lola isn't going to view itself.

:lol: Not bad. Not bad.

[megladon8]

That Alexi Tan film doesn't look like a western...more like a '30s crime/mob movie.

[number8]

the bullet-in-the-head remake, right? damn, that's one amateurish film. i have this funny feeling that all the big names are sniggering, watching this movie, and saying to themselves "look, how cute are those kids. pretending to make movie and be like us."

Exactly. I was not surprised to learn that Tan was a fashion photographer. It looks like Men Vogue trying to make a movie. Ridiculous.

[Qrazy]

:lol: Not bad. Not bad.

I like how the majority of his films have an ass on the cover. That's fairly hilarious.

[Sycophant]

YepThat's a pity. I was so hyped for that one. I'll be checking it out one of these days, I'm sure, but the overwhelmingly negative reaction it's received (I've tried very hard to find any words above lukewarm for it) has certainly dampened my enthusiasm.

[D_Davis]

No, it's a 2007 Chinese movie. I'm sure Davis can fill in the details. :P

I avoided this one. Didn't look interesting. Looks like I made the right choice!

It looks like a movie made out of Asian Vogue magazine or something.

[megladon8]

On the other hand, I hear great things about Woo's Bullet in the Head!

Yet anoher great movie that hasn't made it's way to DVD yet (or at least hasn't been in print for quite a while).

[Spinal]

I like how the majority of his films have an ass on the cover. That's fairly hilarious.

He is nothing if not blunt. There was also nudity in the DVD menu and on the actual disc itself.

[number8]

That Alexi Tan film doesn't look like a western...more like a '30s crime/mob movie.

I don't equate westerns with cowboys.

[megladon8]

Last night I watched about 3/4 of King Boxer (The Five Fingers of Death).

It's not very good.

[MadMan]

Weekend:

The Wind and the Lion(1975)
The X From Outer Space(1967)
Plan 9 From Outer Space(1959)

And lots of partying. To celebrate my friend's b-day and mine as well.
Heh this is for the Match-Cut drinking thread. Of course.

[megladon8]

I don't equate westerns with cowboys.


Yes but watching the trailer, it looks like a mob movie to me.

But you've actually seen the movie, so obviously you know better. Lord knows trailers can be misleading as a tranny hooker.

[Qrazy]

In my opinion Peckinpah's greatest talent lies in his editing. He has an incredibly original and compelling sense of pacing and timing.

[megladon8]

In my opinion Peckinpah's greatest talent lies in his editing. He has an incredibly original and compelling sense of pacing and timing.


Oh, I agree!

Especially in Straw Dogs, which I didn't particularly like - but it's wonderfully put together.

[lovejuice]

On the other hand, I hear great things about Woo's Bullet in the Head!

it's great. imo, used to be among lesser woo's. now it's in the top. though that has something to do with the alternated ending.

speaking of western, it's funny how people think of it as a "genre", while i think it's more a "setting." for example, you can remake anything as a western by just throwing characters and events into the west more or less. seven samurais, hamlet, my best friend wedding, torque, a few good man, cabaret, you name it. on the other hand, i don't think you can remake king lear or the matrix into a rom com or courtroom drama that easily.

[megladon8]

Any thoughts or opinions on Peckinpah's Cross of Iron?

Aside from it's amazing DVD cover?

[MadMan]

I saw some of Flash Gordon(1980) today. Man was it awesome. The Queen soundtrack was as gloriously cheesy and over the top as the actual film appeared to be. I sadly only saw the last half of the film. But what I saw made me want to see it ASAP.

[Sycophant]

on the other hand, i don't think you can remake king lear or the matrix into a rom com or courtroom drama that easily.On it!

[Qrazy]

Let's all sit and reflect on how much better this scene is than anything in The Assassination of Jesse James (a film which I enjoyed).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MgubwywhiU

[Qrazy]

it's great. imo, used to be among lesser woo's. now it's in the top. though that has something to do with the alternated ending.

speaking of western, it's funny how people think of it as a "genre", while i think it's more a "setting." for example, you can remake anything as a western by just throwing characters and events into the west more or less. seven samurais, hamlet, my best friend wedding, torque, a few good man, cabaret, you name it. on the other hand, i don't think you can remake king lear or the matrix into a rom com or courtroom drama that easily.

Well I think things usually become a genre when there's a large enough number of them. Plus I'm not sure. I think you could make a western without a grain of sand in the frame. It's the archetypal characters and narrative which comes to define the genre even more so than the locale.

[Stay Puft]

Last night I watched about 3/4 of King Boxer (The Five Fingers of Death).

It's not very good.

Boo-urns! That's a fun movie. Did you at least get to the part when the guy is thrown through a tree?

[megladon8]

Boo-urns! That's a fun movie. Did you at least get to the part when the guy is thrown through a tree?


Yes, that was good.

I found the filming of the fight scenes to be pretty bad. At times it almost seems like it was edited to make up for actors not being convincing fighters. The camera is placed so that quite often you don't see the actual moves, or they're edited so choppily it's hard to tell what's going on.

Then suddenly someone's flying 20 feet in the air.

[ledfloyd]

king boxer is one of my absolute favorite shaw brothers films.

[megladon8]

I guess there's just something wrong with me :cry:

Don't get me wrong, it had its share of good scenes. But I really found many of the fights lacking - that first attack on the old man at the beginning of the film was particularly bad.

[lovejuice]

It's the archetypal characters and narrative which comes to define the genre even more so than the locale.

that may be so, and perhaps is why some people consider the getaway, some woo's, and blood brothers in the genre.

[Winston*]

I can kind of see a rom-com The Matrix.

[Duncan]

I rewatched bits and pieces of The Matrix a couple weeks ago, and I think there's enough unintentional hilarity in the exchanges between Trinity and Neo to make a case for rom-com classification already.

[D_Davis]

Last night I watched about 3/4 of King Boxer (The Five Fingers of Death).

It's not very good.

It's not very good, but it is an important film in that it bridged the transition from the wuxia pian to the kung fu pian (open handed combat), and helped to popularize the genre here in the states.

[MacGuffin]

It's not very good, but it is an important film in that it bridged the transition from the wuxia pian to the kung fu pian (open handed combat), and helped to popularize the genre here in the states.
:eek::frustrated:

Man, I have so many movies left to see.

[Rowland]

I'm confident that Gerry is my favorite of Van Sant's Trilogy of Death, probably in large part for its remarkable purity. If I could change one thing, it'd be the last shot, which I'd excise completely. Otherwise, it's nearly perfect.

[transmogrifier]

Which character in The Wild Bunch would you call a romantic figure? Or do you just mean 'the cowboy' in general?

I'm sorry, if you don't find any sense of connection with Pike or Deke, then I'm going to have to assume you slept through half the movie only to awaken when guns started firing, granddad style, thus creating a completely wrong-headed impression of the movie. Because that's what this is.

[ledfloyd]

I'm confident that Gerry is my favorite of Van Sant's Trilogy of Death, probably in large part for its remarkable purity. If I could change one thing, it'd be the last shot, which I'd excise completely. Otherwise, it's nearly perfect.
I more or less agree. My favorite part of the movie is when one of them wakes up on that tower. I think it's Casey. The dialogue is priceless

Gerry: Come on, dude, let's go.
Gerry: I can't.
Gerry: Why not?
Gerry: Fucking marooned.
Gerry: Come on. You're not rock-marooned. Just climb down.
Gerry: But I am rock-marooned. I can't climb down. I'm gonna have to jump. Why don't you make me a dirt-mattress?
Gerry: No, Gerry.
Gerry: Come on, dude. I crow's-nested all the way up here to scout-about the ravine 'cause you Gerried the rendezvous.
Gerry: Well, I gotta haul the dirt.
Gerry: Well, get haulin'.
Gerry: I can haul it from over here.
Gerry: Shirt basket?
Gerry: Shirt basket.

rock-marooned? dirt-matress? shirt basket? :lol:

[Spinal]

I'm sorry, if you don't find any sense of connection with Pike or Deke, then I'm going to have to assume you slept through half the movie only to awaken when guns started firing, granddad style, thus creating a completely wrong-headed impression of the movie. Because that's what this is.

This post doesn't really do anybody any good. But, hey, I'm glad you were able to get that off your chest.

[Yxklyx]

Any thoughts or opinions on Peckinpah's Cross of Iron?

Aside from it's amazing DVD cover?

I saw parts of it a long time ago on TV and blind bought it more recently (which I hardly ever do). It wasn't as good as I remembered but still pretty solid.

[transmogrifier]

This post doesn't really do anybody any good. But, hey, I'm glad you were able to get that off your chest.

Neither does your opinion on the movie, so let's call it even and listen to PJ.

[Rowland]

My favorite part of the movie is when one of them wakes up on that tower. I think it's Casey. The dialogue is pricelessYeah, my impression before watching the movie was that it'd be an entirely experimental, dialog-free formal narrative, so I was pleasantly surprised by the verbal banter between the characters.

[Qrazy]

I more or less agree. My favorite part of the movie is when one of them wakes up on that tower. I think it's Casey. The dialogue is priceless

Gerry: Come on, dude, let's go.
Gerry: I can't.
Gerry: Why not?
Gerry: Fucking marooned.
Gerry: Come on. You're not rock-marooned. Just climb down.
Gerry: But I am rock-marooned. I can't climb down. I'm gonna have to jump. Why don't you make me a dirt-mattress?
Gerry: No, Gerry.
Gerry: Come on, dude. I crow's-nested all the way up here to scout-about the ravine 'cause you Gerried the rendezvous.
Gerry: Well, I gotta haul the dirt.
Gerry: Well, get haulin'.
Gerry: I can haul it from over here.
Gerry: Shirt basket?
Gerry: Shirt basket.

rock-marooned? dirt-matress? shirt basket? :lol:

I found that fairly stupid. If you're going to opt for more realistic dialogue as opposed to more thematically relevant and intellectually engaging dialogue at least make it realistic. Have they spent lots of time getting rock-marooned, and making dirt mattresses with shirt baskets before? It's just absurd, and not in a Camus/Beckett oh that's really funny yet poignant absurdity... more like a that's really stupid and irritating absurdity.

He's stuck and can't get down... unless he jumps after a prolonged period of time and then doesn't even injure himself to propel some dramatic conflict... what a brilliant metaphor for human existence! *Slaps Van Sant*

[Watashi]

So I just saw a TV spot for Horton Hears a Who that advertised "featuring the voice cast of Steve Carrell, Jonah Hill, and Seth Rogen!". Of course who cares if they omit Jim Carrey because he is only voicing the main character of the movie!