28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Scar]

This game was the fucking shit:

http://www.starwarsklub.hu/06_toys_comics_&_games/toys_002/jpg/tie_fighter.jpg

[Sycophant]

I don't think I have any films I make a point of watching annually. Though I think I've had viewings of Fireworks, Tokyo Godfathers and God of Cookery every year for the last few years, but that wasn't necessarily by design.

ASIAN CULT.

[MadMan]

Not only do I still love Star Wars Battlefront to death (my friends and I played it for hours and hours back in high school), I still love the old arcade Star Wars game where you got to sit in the chair and play out scenes from the old trilogy. Just freakin' awesome.

[baby doll]

The image of a young baby doll playing a Star Wars video game in his room blows my mind.Actually, I played in the living room.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I don't think I have any films I make a point of watching annually. Though I think I've had viewings of Fireworks, Tokyo Godfathers and God of Cookery every year for the last few years, but that wasn't necessarily by design.

ASIAN CULT.

I usually watch the original Dawn of the Dead once per year. This year I had the pleasure of watching it on a large plasma screen for the first time, and the DVD transfer was lovely.

I'm thinking I might start doing that with Lawrence of Arabia.

[megladon8]

There are a few movies I try to watch annually.

While you all know that my dad and I used to watch every Bond movie every year as an unofficial countdown to Christmas, that has been cut down to watching maybe 5-10 of them around that time of year.

Every Halloween I watch one or both of the first two Evil Dead films. After that I watch either House of 1,000 Corpses or the original Halloween.

I probably watch American Psycho at least once a year.

Other than that, yeah, there are certainly movies I watch repeatedly/more often than others, but nothing I mindfully schedule time every year to watch.

[number8]

I just watched Detective Story. Takashi Miike is absolutely out of his mind. :lol:

[Sycophant]

Man, I don't really have time to rewatch films I like. If I do have time, I'd usually prefer to watch a new film. The only time I ever get to seeing films again is when introducing friends to good films.

Occasionally, I work in a rewatch to reconsider a film or because I'm curious about studying a certain aspect of a film or a director. Makes me wonder why I have so many goddamned DVDs.


I just watched Detective Story. Takashi Miike is absolutely out of his mind. :lol:

DO WANT.

[Ivan Drago]

This game was the fucking shit:

I'll see you that and raise you:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/81/Mastersbox.jpg

[Rowland]

When I was younger, I watched the first two Terminators, Predator, The Shining, and Halloween at least once a year. I no longer have the time nor the inclination for such a steady schedule of repeat viewings, though I would like to revisit all of those soon.

[dreamdead]

I've watched Punch-Drunk Love, The Thin Red Line, The New World, ESotSM, and Before Sunset every year since '05. Good times.

[Spun Lepton]

I don't plan it out, but I do end up watching Evil Dead II about once a year. The Thing is a close second.

[D_Davis]

I love rewatching movies, I do it all the time.

Like a good album, a good movie can offer up a lot on repeat viewings.

[Winston*]

I'll see you that and raise you:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/81/Mastersbox.jpg

Zac Efron?

[Stay Puft]

I rented the Passion of Joan of Arc for the Dreyer consensus thread. Plan on watching it in about an hour. Question: With or without Voices of Light?

[B-side]

I rented the Passion of Joan of Arc for the Dreyer consensus thread. Plan on watching it in about an hour. Question: With or without Voices of Light?

I watched it with. Can't imagine watching it without it. Bear in mind I've only seen it once, though.

[MacGuffin]

I rented the Passion of Joan of Arc for the Dreyer consensus thread. Plan on watching it in about an hour. Question: With or without Voices of Light?

I haven't heard the Voices of Light soundtrack, but Dreyer intended it to be watched without a sound accompaniment.

[Spinal]

I rented the Passion of Joan of Arc for the Dreyer consensus thread. Plan on watching it in about an hour. Question: With or without Voices of Light?

With. Definitely.

[Watashi]

Definitely with.

[Sycophant]

Can't speak for the with, 'cause the only time I watched it, I watched it without, and it was beautiful.

[Yxklyx]

I rented the Passion of Joan of Arc for the Dreyer consensus thread. Plan on watching it in about an hour. Question: With or without Voices of Light?

Without. The music is great until the finale.

[Spinal]

Well, this really hasn't helped Stay Puft at all.

[baby doll]

If Dreyer intended it to be shown without music, then that's the way to see it. But having seen both, I'd say it works better with music.

[Derek]

With music, but put an ear plug in one of your ears.

But seriously, with.

[Stay Puft]

I haven't heard the Voices of Light soundtrack, but Dreyer intended it to be watched without a sound accompaniment.

This is why I asked. According to the information on the DVD, the film was shown with different musical accompaniments, but it never states unambiguously that Dreyer did not intend for there to be music.

Popular vote says with, so I think I'll go with.

[Rowland]

Okay, I probably wouldn't have revisited it without the nagging of my girlfriend, but I found myself being passably diverted by Transformers today, enough so that I can count myself amongst those looking forward to the sequel. Perhaps the home environment, complete with a smaller screen and a pause button, dilutes the impact of Bay's garish vulgarity enough so that it no longer plays as quite so headache-inducingly oppressive, but rather as a sort of baroque pulp. The politics are still shady, but I've grown increasingly used to this being the norm with blockbusters of this ilk, coupled with the obvious Bay bluster that has grown almost charming in its predictable misogyny/xenophobia/racism/jingoism/fetishism, and the pacing is misbegotten, as are roughly half of the picture's ideas of humor and pathos. LaBeouf humanizes the proceedings a great deal however, the special effects are neat, the action is choreographed with reasonable flair, and the narrative has a goofy, anything-goes thrust to it that proves charming. Bring on the sequel.

[soitgoes...]

Weekend!

Devils on the Door Step
The Terrorizer
Carnival in Flanders
Floating Weeds
Ministry of Fear
The Downfall of Osen

[Rowland]

The Strange Vice of Mrs. Wardh (Martino 71) - 8.0Really? I found this to be a rather flat and unremarkable giallo as compared to much of the output from Argento, Bava, Fulci, and others at the time. Martino improved in the following years however, with the deliciously macabre Your Vice is a Locked Room and Only I Have the Key, the gorgeously hallucinatory All the Colors of the Dark, and the utterly brilliant Torso, which is one of the best giallo/slashers around, period.

[Qrazy]

I only ever read 1 SW book though: a Han Solo adventure. I never saw the point in reading sub-par SF when there was so much good stuff to read.

So even as a child playing Sarlac Pit you were ranting to the other rugrats about the pros and cons of soft and hard sci-fi? *slap*

[soitgoes...]

Really? I found this to be a rather flat and unremarkable giallo as compared to much of the output from Argento, Bava, Fulci, and others at the time. Martino improved in the following years however, with the deliciously macabre Your Vice is a Locked Room and Only I Have the Key, the gorgeously hallucinatory All the Colors of the Dark, and the utterly brilliant Torso, which is one of the best giallos around, period.
I thought he did a great job at showing the titular (heh ;)) character's unhinging as everyone around her gets killed. Also throw in some ingenious camera work (the closeup of the killer killing his killer pal by way of his glasses was wonderful), and I have to say it was one of the most fun experiences watching a film in awhile. Sure the story was somewhat convoluted, and there were plot holes aplenty, but I very much enjoyed my 90 minutes.

[Qrazy]

I'll see you that and raise you:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/81/Mastersbox.jpg

I re-raise.

http://www.licentejocuri.ro/images/Star%20Wars%20Knights%20of%20t he%20Old%20Republic.jpg

[soitgoes...]

Your Vice is a Locked Room and Only I Have the Key

Also, this has to be in the running for best film title of all time. It will probably be my next Martino film.

[B-side]

Trust is funny. Trust is uneven. Trust has lines of dialogue that come out of characters that don't seem to be speaking them so much as reciting them. Trust occasionally reaches deep and pulls back a nub. Trust has two very amusing characters. Trust revels in the coincidences, sometimes hilarious, that define our lives. Trust hates TV. Trust promotes individualism. Trust shows how we seem to always end up as captives to our upbringing. Trust mocks irresponsible parents. Trust utilizes a nice sense of circular circumstance that lends additional humor to the proceedings. Trust knows how you feel. Trust could be saying more than I'm currently processing. Trust is my first Hal Hartley film. Trust is effortlessly entertaining.

[soitgoes...]

So... best film titles, I offer up these:

Seven Men from Now
Your Vice is a Locked Room and Only I Have the Key
Come Drink with Me or alternately A Touch of Zen
The Profound Desire of the Gods
Days of Being Wild

[Sven]

Okay, I probably wouldn't have revisited it without the nagging of my girlfriend

So the ol' B.U. didn't happen, I take it.


Perhaps the home environment, complete with a smaller screen and a pause button, dilutes the impact of Bay's garish vulgarity enough so that it no longer plays as quite so headache-inducingly oppressive

This is exactly how I felt about the LOTR films. Your reaction to Transformers roughly equals my own.

[Qrazy]

After seeing The Professionals and half of Elmer Gantry (I like it but it's long) I think I'm going to start actively seeking out Burt Lancaster films. I guess I should have started after From Here to Eternity, The Killers and The Sweet Smell of Success but the man seems like he had a long career of mostly good to excellent films. I have The Birdman of Alcatraz so I'll probably go there next.

[Sven]

After seeing The Professionals and half of Elmer Gantry (I like it but it's long) I think I'm going to start actively seeking out Burt Lancaster films. I guess I should have started after From Here to Eternity, The Killers and The Sweet Smell of Success but the man seems like he had a long career of mostly good to excellent films. I have The Birdman of Alcatraz so I'll probably go there next.

I saw that you were working on Dassin a little while back... Brute Force is very good. A bit Hollywood, but still relentless.

[Qrazy]

I saw that you were working on Dassin a little while back... Brute Force is very good. A bit Hollywood, but still relentless.

Seen it, liked it. Not Lancaster related but I have Never on Sunday, may watch that sometime soon as well.

[Sven]

Seen it, liked it. Not Lancaster related but I have Never on Sunday, may watch that sometime soon as well.

Easily my least favorite of his films that I've seen. A bit too inconsequential. However, I love Dassin as an actor, and this is his biggest role.

[balmakboor]

Some random distributor guy just emailed me and asked if I'd like a screener so I can review a new movie opening soon in Bismarck. It's Call of the Wild 3-D (he apologized that all he can send me is a 2-D screener) with Christopher Lloyd.

I said sure, send away.

It's directed by some guy named Richard Gabai. Here is his filmography:

Call of the Wild (2009)
Miracle Dogs Too (2006) (V)
Popstar (2005)
American Black Beauty (2005) (TV)
Motocross Kids (2004)
The Bike Squad (2002)
Virtual Girl 2: Virtual Vegas (2001) (V)
Vice Girls (2000)
Virtual Girl (1998) (V)
Kickboxing Academy (1997)
Assault of the Party Nerds 2: The Heavy Petting Detective (1995)
Hot Under the Collar (1991)
Virgin High (1991)
Assault of the Party Nerds (1989)
Blood Nasty (1989)

Fuck! Why can't some random distributor offer to send me something like The Limits of Control? (Well, I know why. But I can still dream. Can't I?)

As for this particular movie, I'll try to keep an open mind as always. I like Jack London. I like Christopher Lloyd. Somehow though, I think I'd rather see something called Blood Nasty.

[Mara]

So... best film titles, I offer up these:

Seven Men from Now
Your Vice is a Locked Room and Only I Have the Key
Come Drink with Me or alternately A Touch of Zen
The Profound Desire of the Gods
Days of Being Wild

I find this an interesting topic. I'm trying to think of my favorite titles.

Murder by Death
The Englishman who Went up a Hill but Came Down a Mountain
Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?
Dr. Strangelove: Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

I haven't seen, but have always liked the titles of:
Wife, Be Like a Rose!
There Will be Blood
The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford

[D_Davis]

Best film title:

Dirty Ho

[Ezee E]

Despite Dreyer not intending music to be with the movie, I couldn't imagine it without it.

And I can't think of a better Star Wars game then Knights of the Old Republic. Creates every fan's dream of having their own Star Wars character in the universe, and you see pretty much everything you'd want. Shadows of the Empire had some fun stuff too.

[Russ]

Best film titles? Herzog, ftw.

My favorites include:

Even Dwarfs Started Small
Every Man for Himself and God Against All (aka The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser)
Where the Green Ants Dream
How Much Wood Would a Woodchuck Chuck?

..and his new one coming out next year, My Son, My Son, What Have Ye Done? (and check out that cast: Willem Dafoe, Chloë Sevigny, Brad Dourif, Udo Kier, Grace Zabriskie. Wowza!)

[Derek]

For Herzog-related titles, I prefer Werner Herzog Eats His Shoe. :)

[Mara]

..and his new one coming out next year, My Son, My Son, What Have Ye Done?

That title is fantastic.

[Rowland]

It can be so difficult to the find the time for uninterrupted movie viewing. I watched the first half of Fritz Lang's Fury today, and it has been exceptional so far. Hopefully I can finish the rest later.

[Wryan]

It can be so difficult to the find the time for uninterrupted movie viewing. I watched the first half of Fritz Lang's Fury today, and it has been exceptional so far. Hopefully I can finish the rest later.

/thumbs up

[MacGuffin]

Bosco B Thug: Did you get my pm about those Godards? I really want to know what you think of them as they're not as extensively written about as his more widely seen works.

[MadMan]

balmakboor appears to be a familiar Match-Cut user, yet looking at his/her rep total I know its a regular who just changed their name. Yet I have no idea who they are...

Knights of the Old Republic is indeed very awesome.

Weekend Viewing:

*Le Cercle Rouge-I'm going to watch this tonight after work. Seriously.
*Days of Heaven-For some strange reason I'm putting this off.

[MacGuffin]

balmakboor appears to be a familiar Match-Cut user, yet looking at his/her rep total I know its a regular who just changed their name. Yet I have no idea who they are...

fasozupow

[MadMan]

fasozupowOh. Thanks.

[Bosco B Thug]

Bosco B Thug: Did you get my pm about those Godards? I really want to know what you think of them as they're not as extensively written about as his more widely seen works.
Ah! No, I missed that. For sure, I'll try to get some thoughts down on them. I actually didn't download Nouvelle Vague and JLG/JLG, I've been taking a class on Godard and I've got access to them (meaning, Region 2 DVDs and a region-free player).

WEEKEND: Irreversible, La Chinoise, The Call of Cthulhu

[MacGuffin]

Ah! No, I missed that. For sure, I'll try to get some thoughts down on them. I actually didn't download Nouvelle Vague and JLG/JLG, I've been taking a class on Godard and I've got access to them (meaning, Region 2 DVDs and a region-free player).

Fantastic! Please do keep us updated on your studies. I find Godard is especially interesting. Which textbook is your class using? I'll probably be reading Everything is Cinema over the summer and would be happy to share anything interesting I learn.


WEEKEND: Irreversible, La Chinoise, The Call of Cthulhu

Yeah, I'll probably watch Irréversible again too and also re-watch I Stand Alone. Also, those Chabrols I've been meaning to see (and re-see) along with some other stuff.

[Stay Puft]

weekend...

They Shoot Horses, Don't They?

And I'll probably be back at the video store to rent something else. Or maybe I'll go see Star Trek. Haven't been to the theatres in a couple weeks, and I'm falling behind on my summer blockbusters!

[MacGuffin]

Haven't been to the theatres in a couple weeks, and I'm falling behind on my summer blockbusters!

Impossible! If anything, you should fall behind falling behind watching them.

[Stay Puft]

Impossible! If anything, you should fall behind falling behind watching them.

I can only watch so many old movies about singing and dancing and religious saints before I need things to start randomly exploding, or Tony Jaa to kill somebody with his elbow.

[Sycophant]

I've been thinking lately I wanna watch a movie where shit blows up real good, and frequently. Any suggestions?

[jamaul]

I've been thinking lately I wanna watch a movie where shit blows up real good, and frequently. Any suggestions?

Satantango

[Sycophant]

You bastard.

[jamaul]

You bastard.

Sorry, I misunderstood the question. What I meant to say was Apocalypse Now, which has shit blowing up in the opening shot.

[Qrazy]

I've been thinking lately I wanna watch a movie where shit blows up real good, and frequently. Any suggestions?

I haven't seen it but it's one of imdb's top action titles.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104561/

[Sycophant]

Thanks! I think I wanna see this!

[Ezee E]

I've been thinking lately I wanna watch a movie where shit blows up real good, and frequently. Any suggestions?
Terminator has lots of stuff blowing up.

[Winston*]

Frost/ Nixon - Pretty good made for TV movie. Langella is excellent. Rockwell, Platt and Bacon have probably never been more dull; I'd like to see a movie where the three of them play down on their luck types that hatch some kind of scheme and circumstances go awry.

[Grouchy]

..and his new one coming out next year, My Son, My Son, What Have Ye Done? (and check out that cast: Willem Dafoe, Chloë Sevigny, Brad Dourif, Udo Kier, Grace Zabriskie. Wowza!)
Hey, is that the Bad Lieutenant remake?

Sycopanth, my top action movie of all time is Hard Boiled. You've probably seen it. Shit blows up very frequently in that one.

[Sycophant]

Oh, shit. I just might be craving a rewatch of Hard Boiled. Love that movie.

[megladon8]

Oh, shit. I just might be craving a rewatch of Hard Boiled. Love that movie.


That's what I was going to suggest.

[Stay Puft]

Hey, is that the Bad Lieutenant remake?


No, the Bad Lieutenant film is Port of Call New Orleans, which Herzog says is not a remake. According to imdb, both are in post-production, but My Son, My Son is a 2010 release.

[Sven]

It can be so difficult to the find the time for uninterrupted movie viewing. I watched the first half of Fritz Lang's Fury today, and it has been exceptional so far. Hopefully I can finish the rest later.

This is one of the worst movies to watch interrupted. Normally I don't really buy the whole "experiential fidelity" thing, but this is one where the immediacy of the juxtaposition of the two halves of the film is practically essential. Oh well, I hope you like it.

[baby doll]

Weekend:

1900 (Bernardo Bertolucci, 1976)
Les Chansons d'amour (Christophe Honoré, 2007)
Fists in the Pockets (Marco Bellocchio, 1965)
Kagemusha (Akira Kurosawa, 1980)

[origami_mustache]

Weekend:
Le Samouri
Bolero: Dance of Life

[balmakboor]

W/E

Terminator
The Atheism Tapes
Tess
Finish reading The Blind Watchmaker

[Boner M]

w/e

The Lusty Men
Charuluta and/or Mahanagar
Innocents With Dirty Hands and/or Cop au vin

[B-side]

For the weekend, I'm hoping to tackle a few of these:

Medea (Trier, 1987)
Humanite (Dumont, 1999)
Le Samourai (Melville, 1967)
Zoo Zero (Fleischer, 1979)
Kidnapped (Ko, 1983)

[BuffaloWilder]

Weekend viewing:

George Steven's Shane, again - hopefully do a write-up on it.

Try to see Terminator: Salvation, if I can. Do something with that, if it hasn't blinded me by inherently being a McG film.

And, I'll just play it by ear, from there.

[baby doll]

Innocents With Dirty HandsJust to warn you, it's not one of Chabrol's better films. But then you liked Jerichow, so maybe you have a higher tolerance than me for pointless retreads of The Postman Always Rings Twice. At least this one's got Romy Schneider and Jean Rochefort.

[Qrazy]

Weekend viewing:

George Steven's Shane, again - hopefully do a write-up on it.


Random, I'm watching that now.

[Qrazy]

Just to warn you, it's not one of Chabrol's better films. But then you liked Jerichow, so maybe you have a higher tolerance than me for pointless retreads of The Postman Always Rings Twice. At least this one's got Romy Schneider and Jean Rochefort.

Man there were a crapload of these adaptations.

[Ezee E]

Weekend:
Blue Collar
A Short Film About Killing
Underworld: Rise of the Lycans (something along those lines?)

[Derek]

The Burmese Harp (Kon Ichikawa, 1956) - 10

Nice!

[Bosco B Thug]

Once a certain major plot turn happens early in the film, Jane Campion's The Piano goes from meh to really really good.

For all the effort Godard goes through to re-paint the heterosexual couple in his films and his superlative drawing of the "male characteristics" onto the female character in Nouvelle Vague, The Piano might just trump him on both counts with the fascinating Ada and her triangle with Baines and the also fascinatingly drawn Sam Neill character.

[megladon8]

For the weekend, I'm hoping to tackle a few of these:

Le Samourai (Melville, 1967)



Please, please enjoy this one.

It's fracking wonderful. A brilliant genre-crossing piece, filmed with an almost inhuman precision, but ultimately one of the most human crime films I've ever seen.

I hope you have a good time with it.

[Winston*]

Bleh.

Die Another Day > Quantum of Solace

If I have to choose between a poorly directed Kurosawa Fan-esque Bond that's boring and self serious and a poorly directed Kurosawa Fan-esque Bond with surfing on a tidal wave, I know where my allegiance lies.

Though if they'd used this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOH8_Vf_xIE) as the theme song then my opinion might've been different.

[B-side]

Please, please enjoy this one.

It's fracking wonderful. A brilliant genre-crossing piece, filmed with an almost inhuman precision, but ultimately one of the most human crime films I've ever seen.

I hope you have a good time with it.

I'm happy to see someone's invested in my enjoyment of it.:P

Admittedly, and possibly embarrassingly, I've not loved either of the two Melville's I've seen(Army of Shadows and Le Doulos). I'm hoping that changes with Le Samourai.

[Mara]

Once a certain major plot turn happens early in the film, Jane Campion's The Piano goes from meh to really really good.

For all the effort Godard goes through to re-paint the heterosexual couple in his films and his superlative drawing of the "male characteristics" onto the female character in Nouvelle Vague, The Piano might just trump him on both counts with the fascinating Ada and her triangle with Baines and the also fascinatingly drawn Sam Neill character.

You know, I still really like this film. The acting from the three leads was incredible, and I still think Anna Paquin gives one of the best child performances I've ever seen.

[Mara]

One of the first serious film discussions I had in my life was my freshman year of high school, when a friend and I got in an intense discussion about The Piano.

He insisted that the film would have been better if she had drowned at the end. Although I agreed that the "bah-bah-bah" scene at the end where she's learning to speak is a little treacly, I think that the entire film is building up to that moment when she decided to live, and to have her die would have been a betrayal of the story.

[megladon8]

My friend did a short animated film for his final project before graduating from the Animation Program at a college here in town.

It's really good, and it's actually been mentioned and linked on several big sites.

Here it is - "Charged" (http://vimeo.com/4736191)

[MadMan]

Bleh.

Die Another Day > Quantum of Solace

If I have to choose between a poorly directed Kurosawa Fan-esque Bond that's boring and self serious and a poorly directed Kurosawa Fan-esque Bond with surfing on a tidal wave, I know where my allegiance lies.

Though if they'd used this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOH8_Vf_xIE) as the theme song then my opinion might've been different.You're crazy. Die Another Day is the worst Bond movie ever made. Quantum of Solace is easily better. Silly Winston :P

Hard Boiled is gloriously awesome. When Chow Yun Fat slide down the railing, guns blazing, I thought to myself "That is the coolest goddamn thing I have ever seen."

And Le Samourai is on my Netflix list. So I will get to it, eventually.

[Mara]

After careful brain-combing, I'm pretty sure that I've never seen more than ten minutes of any Bond film. But I think I've seen ten minutes or less of, like, a dozen of them.

[MadMan]

I've seen all of them. With that in mind, I'd say that only about roughly half (or a little bit more so) of the series is truly any good. Or at least worth seeing.

[Mara]

I know I've read at least one or two of the original Ian Flemming novels. The only one I remember was told from the main female's perspective, and she was surprisingly okay with being raped by the villians. Sex with Bond fixes her right up.

That is all I remember.

Bah. Give me Chitty Chitty Bang Bang any day.

[D_Davis]

My friend did a short animated film for his final project before graduating from the Animation Program at a college here in town.

It's really good, and it's actually been mentioned and linked on several big sites.

Here it is - "Charged" (http://vimeo.com/4736191)

That is some really, really nice art.

I totally dig it.

[BuffaloWilder]

I know I've read at least one or two of the original Ian Flemming novels. The only one I remember was told from the main female's perspective, and she was surprisingly okay with being raped by the villians. Sex with Bond fixes her right up.

Ah, The Spy Who Loved Me.

I don't remember her being raped in the present-tense, but she does talk about that happening to her, in the past. Out of all of Fleming's female characters, she's one of the most fleshed-out.

[Mara]

Ah, The Spy Who Loved Me.

I don't remember her being raped in the present-tense, but she does talk about that happening to her, in the past. Out of all of Fleming's female characters, she's one of the most fleshed-out.

They rape her when she was already unconcious, in the shower.

She wakes up and is, like, "Oh. Darn."

[Mara]

And I know everyone is slobberingly in love with Once Upon a Time in the West, but I have the same problem with that film.


If you want to, you can lay me over the table and amuse yourself. And even call in your men. Well. No woman ever died from that. When you're finished, all I'll need will be a tub of boiling water, and I'll be exactly what I was before - with just another filthy memory.

I had to grit my teeth and file it under "things not written by women, or for women, or by someone who has ever met a woman."

[BuffaloWilder]

They rape her when she was already unconcious, in the shower.

She wakes up and is, like, "Oh. Darn."

Well, she's got a good world outlook. What can she say?

Don't be too fast to dismiss Fleming as completely misogynist, though. He plays that as dramatic irony to great effect in Casino Royale.

[Grouchy]

I had to grit my teeth and file it under "things not written by women, or for women, or by someone who has ever met a woman."
But the character is a prostitute. Presumably she has already been a victim of abuse at one point, and is saying that to put on a strong front because she mistakes Cheyenne's intentions. Not condoning rape in any way, just putting the quote in context.

Leone seems pretty concerned with rape. In Once Upon a Time in America, it's also a key detonator of the tragedy.

[D_Davis]

And I know everyone is slobberingly in love with Once Upon a Time in the West, but I have the same problem with that film.

I had to grit my teeth and file it under "things not written by women, or for women, or by someone who has ever met a woman."

That's one of the all time great character reveals.

What she is saying there is that she is so far above feeling anything (even hatred) for the men who mistreat her (or men in general really) that she couldn't even be bothered to care even if they committed the worst act they possibly could.

She's completely cold and unemotional towards the act, and she is also as strong and stoic as any of the most manly of men in Leone's westerns.

That line puts the men in their place - as nothing, no, less than nothing. Nothing they can do can phase her.

She's a fascinating character on so many levels.

[Mara]

But the character is a prostitute. Presumably she has already been a victim of abuse at one point, and is saying that to put on a strong front because she mistakes Cheyenne's intentions. Not condoning rape in any way, just putting the quote in context.

I felt like I understood what they were trying to say-- this is a woman so broken down that she hardly feels pain anymore, etc. etc. but the character and portrayal felt false to me. Instead of "dead inside" it was just "dead."

And don't get me started on her interactions with Frank.

(Yes, if you're wondering, I was so annoyed by that character that she's pretty much all I remember about the film. There was some plot about... um... shooting people.)

[Mara]

What she is saying there is that she is so far above feeling anything (even hatred) for the men who mistreat her (or men in general really) that she couldn't even be bothered to care even if they committed the worst act they possibly could.

Yeah. Right.

Because when Frank finally does rape her, she's all breathless and sweaty and take-me-now-you-animal.

Just talking about it makes me want to put my fist through a wall.

[Mara]

And it's too bad that he doesn't deign to marry her (although so good and condescending of him to consider it), because then it could have been Richardson's Pamela all over again. I'm so glad that women's issues have progressed so much in the last 300 years.

[D_Davis]

Does the way men are treated in Leone's films bother you? Many of the men are portrayed as dirty animals, murderers, rapists, beasts. Eastwood took this to a classic and disturbing level in High Planes Drifter; he made the 'hero' into a man as bad as the villains.

I know all men aren't like that.

I don't really see the point of the hatred, or the accusation of it being misogynistic. Jill is a complex character, full of nuance and mystery. Also, I still don't know if Frank raped her - sometimes I think he did, while other times I think Jill gave herself to him. Why? I don't know. Their relationship is an odd one, that's for sure. There is a lot going on inside her head. She most definitely does not play the victim, nor is she ignorant.

I should watch this again soon to see if I can discover anything more. It's been awhile.

EDIT:
But then again, I am not a woman, so I am approaching this film on a completely different level than you are, looking for and interested in different things.

[Ivan Drago]

Leone seems pretty concerned with rape. In Once Upon a Time in America, it's also a key detonator of the tragedy.

Would I be asking to have the movie spoiled for me if I ask what the tragedy is? Or is the whole movie itself a tragedy, in the Greek sense?

[Mara]

Does the way men are treated in Leone's films bother you? Many of the men are portrayed as dirty animals, murderers, rapists, beasts. Eastwood took this to a classic and disturbing level in High Planes Drifter; he made the 'hero' into a man as bad as the villains.

No, and I can accept if that makes me a little hypocritical, here. I'm not talking about Jill being a bad person or presented in a bad light. She's certainly a more moral person than most of the characters in the film.

But literature and film have a history of perpetrating myths about rape; specifically, either that it is no big deal, or that women secretly enjoy it. (Can you say Gone with the Wind?)

I just found Once Upon a Time in the West to be a particularly egregious example of this. The film puts a woman in a disturbingly vulnerable position. She has a past as a prostitute. She is far from home and friendless. Her husband has been murdered. She has been kidnapped by the murderer, who insults her and calls her a tramp.

Then they have sex (rape?), and she loves it because she's a whore.

I can't handle that. I'm sorry.

[Mara]

I should watch this again soon to see if I can discover anything more. It's been awhile.

I think I should watch it again while tuning out the stuff that bothered me so much. I remember, at the time, enjoying other aspects of the film, especially the music and Fonda's performance.

[D_Davis]

I do understand where you are coming from. Rape in cinema bothers me a lot, especially when it is shown in detail. It makes me more uncomfortable than anything. I still cannot watch A Clockwork Orange with a woman in the same room. I feel terrible. Rape and animal abuse are really two of the only things I won't watch.

[Mara]

Rape is always upsetting to watch, but can be used responsibly, to convey something important. (For instance, the rape scene in American History X is a drastic turning point for the character.)

The rape scene in A Clockwork Orange, disturbing as it is, is used to show how deviant and oblivious to other people's humanity the main characters are.

[Grouchy]

I never understood from the movie that Frank had raped Jill. I always considered that consensual sex.

And Ivan, just watch it. You won't regret the hours put into it.

[D_Davis]

I never understood from the movie that Frank had raped Jill. I always considered that consensual sex.


Same here (most of the time) - what I don't know, though, is why? What were Jill's motives?

[Mara]

I never understood from the movie that Frank had raped Jill. I always considered that consensual sex.

I don't know. She's just been kidnapped.

[BuffaloWilder]

There's a plug for two interesting essays, one about The Fall (to tredge that up again) and another for Happy Feet, at the blog below.

I'm really just biding my time, y'see. Working on this article about Joseph Campbell in film, and it's a doozy.

Still, give them a read.

[Russ]

There's a plug for two interesting essays, one about The Fall
Repped. Thank you so much for that blog link for The Fall essay.

[Qrazy]

Blackboard Jungle (Richard Brooks) was well made but so ill-conceived. The approach the story takes, demonstrating a power struggle between a young teacher and his inner city class, is facile, surface and idiotic.

[Bosco B Thug]

One of the first serious film discussions I had in my life was my freshman year of high school, when a friend and I got in an intense discussion about The Piano.

He insisted that the film would have been better if she had drowned at the end. Although I agreed that the "bah-bah-bah" scene at the end where she's learning to speak is a little treacly, I think that the entire film is building up to that moment when she decided to live, and to have her die would have been a betrayal of the story. My butt Ada should have died at the end! No no no, you're right. Totally right. When she got pulled under, I was literally thinking, "Jane Campion! You blew it! At the last second..." I was very happy when she survived, paired with the hilarious voice-over work she's given, no less. I love that freakin' voice over.

Killing her really would've made no sense. Ada is a completely liberated female character, and the story's not about how Anna Karenina her life is.

[megladon8]

I thought these were cute. (http://www.cinematical.com/photos/lego-movie-posters/)

[Ivan Drago]

And Ivan, just watch it. You won't regret the hours put into it.

Oh believe me I do want to see it. I was just wondering what kind of tragedy (psychological, moral, fall from grace, etc.) the rape sets off.

[Spinal]

I've had the same films out from Netflix for about two weeks now. I hate when that happens.

[B-side]

Fassbinder's Whity is a somewhat bizarre deconstruction of the western. Fassbinder brings forth the racism, homoerotic subtext and racial power struggles of the average western and places them at the forefront. Fassbinder was recorded as saying that he wanted to keep the film to himself, it was that personal to him. The white family at the center has white and ghastly makeup caked on their faces to deliberately exaggerated effect. Whity, the mulatto butler, the film's focal point, is one of only two characters without exaggerated makeup. The other being his saloon singer lover. His mother is smothered in blackface, complete with a big afro.

The film is wholly elegiac. Fassbinder utilizes a pace that's stately at best, painfully slow at worst. Something tells me Fassbinder liked draining any sense of the bombastic thrill of the typical western out of his film so you could absorb the issues at hand. Luckily, the movie's bizarre enough to be funny at times to allow you to escape the zombified white family's stasis and the bits of harsh racism. Fassbinder himself has a neat role as a barfly gunslinger.

[baby doll]

À propos of nothing, my top ten Fassbinder films:

1. The Marriage of Maria Braun (1979)
2. The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant (1972)
3. In a Year of 13 Moons (1978)
4. The Third Generation (1979)
5. Katzelmacher (1969)
6. The Merchant of Four Seasons (1972)
7. Veronika Voss (1982)
8. Beware of a Holy Whore (1971)
9. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul (1974)
10. Querelle (1982)

I still need to see Berlin Alexanderplatz (1980) and Martha (1974), among others.

[MacGuffin]

À propos of nothing, my top ten Fassbinder films:


Here are my top ten Fassbinder films:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

[baby doll]

Here are my top ten Fassbinder films:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.I take it you're not a fan?

[B-side]

À propos of nothing, my top ten Fassbinder films:

1. The Marriage of Maria Braun (1979)
2. The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant (1972)
3. In a Year of 13 Moons (1978)
4. The Third Generation (1979)
5. Katzelmacher (1969)
6. The Merchant of Four Seasons (1972)
7. Veronika Voss (1982)
8. Beware of a Holy Whore (1971)
9. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul (1974)
10. Querelle (1982)

I still need to see Berlin Alexanderplatz (1980) and Martha (1974), among others.

13 Moons is far and away my current favorite. I rank my Fassbinder's as follows:

1. In a Year with 13 Moons


2. Veronika Voss
3. Whity
4. The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant
5. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul
6. Fear of Fear
7. Lola

I definitely recommend you check out Whity if you haven't yet. At the very least, it's interesting.

[megladon8]

I thought Three Amigos was quite fun and funny.

Movie - 6

Gorgeous Mexican women - 10

[MacGuffin]

I take it you're not a fan?

I haven't seen anything by him.

[Qrazy]

Clipper Ship he seems up your alley... maybe... can't be sure but I think so.

---

A rewatch of Shane wasn't too kind to it. A rewatch of Hud revealed it was just as good as it was a decade ago.

[MacGuffin]

Clipper Ship he seems up your alley... maybe... can't be sure but I think so.

No, he actually really does. I just don't know what to see first. I think back in my Rotten Tomato days I tried to get into him and never did - in fact, I remember trying a bit of Ali: Fear Eats the Soul, liking it, but never finishing it… strange.


A rewatch of Shane wasn't too kind to it. A rewatch of Hud revealed it was just as good as it was a decade ago.

I really liked it when I saw it three or four years ago. I wonder how it would be now with not a whole lot better of an understanding of the western genre.

[Qrazy]

No, he actually really does. I just don't know what to see first. I think back in my Rotten Tomato days I tried to get into him and never did - in fact, I remember trying a bit of Ali: Fear Eats the Soul, liking it, but never finishing it… strange.



I really liked it when I saw it three or four years ago. I wonder how it would be now with not a whole lot better of an understanding of the western genre.

Just dive into In a Year with 13 Moons.

---

What are you referring to Shane or Hud?

[BuffaloWilder]

A rewatch of Shane wasn't too kind to it.

There have certainly been better attempts at the archetype since then, of this there is no doubt. However, the cinematography is stunning, and if I weren't a stronger man, I would admit to a man-crush on Alan Ladd.

But, I am. So I won't.


sigh

[balmakboor]

Here are my top ten Fassbinder films:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

I hope that means you haven't seen any yet.

Edit: Nevermind. I missed your admission. :)

[MacGuffin]

Just dive into In a Year with 13 Moons.

---

What are you referring to Shane or Hud?

Queued. Shane.

[balmakboor]

Fassbinder top ten for me:

1. Berlin Alexanderplatz
2. Martha
3. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul
4. Veronika Voss
5. In a Year With 13 Moons
6. Why Does Herr R Run Amok?
7. Lola
8. The Marriage of Maria Braun
9. Beware of a Holy Whore
10. The Merchant of Four Seasons

Edit: Oh shit. I forgot all about Bitter Tears of Petra Von Kant. Stash it in the number 4 spot and slide everything else down.

Or something like that. I consider Whity and Querelle pretty damn great as well.

[B-side]

I can't be the only one that found Ali a bit slight. I liked it well enough, but considering its reputation, you'd think it had a bit more going on. Admittedly, I could be missing something.

[MacGuffin]

Any thoughts on Adam Sandler as an actor? I'm not going to call him great, because I haven't seen Punch-Drunk Love, but I certainly think he is decent. Big Daddy and Billy Madison are by no means "great" movies, but I enjoy the characters he plays. Looking forward to Funny People, that said.

[Ezee E]

Him as Billy Madison is one of the most annoying creations I've ever seen. Love the Family Guy rip on him.

He has since gotten better, much better.

[B-side]

Any thoughts on Adam Sandler as an actor? I'm not going to call him great, because I haven't seen Punch-Drunk Love, but I certainly think he is decent. Big Daddy and Billy Madison are by no means "great" movies, but I enjoy the characters he plays. Looking forward to Funny People, that said.

I like him. I don't care what anyone says. The man can act, too. Punch-Drunk Love, Reign Over Me, Big Daddy, Spanglish -- he was good in all of those. I also think he's got a terrific ability to express emotion that feels nothing short of absolutely genuine. I'll cite the courtroom sequence of Big Daddy as an example.

[MacGuffin]

Him as Billy Madison is one of the most annoying creations I've ever seen. Love the Family Guy rip on him.

He has since gotten better, much better.

Yeah, maybe that was a bad example (although I think the movie has its share of funny moments), but I hate to see him put in the same category as, say, Rob Schnider.

[MacGuffin]

I like him. I don't care what anyone says. The man can act, too. Punch-Drunk Love, Reign Over Me, Big Daddy, Spanglish -- he was good in all of those. I also think he's got a terrific ability to express emotion that feels nothing short of absolutely genuine. I'll cite the courtroom sequence of Big Daddy as an example.

Good. But Spanglish sucks.

[megladon8]

I can't be the only one that found Ali a bit slight. I liked it well enough, but considering its reputation, you'd think it had a bit more going on. Admittedly, I could be missing something.


I thought its reputation was that it was pretty mediocre.

[MacGuffin]

I thought its reputation was that it was pretty mediocre.

Baby doll loves it, or he used to.

[balmakboor]

Any thoughts on Adam Sandler as an actor? I'm not going to call him great, because I haven't seen Punch-Drunk Love, but I certainly think he is decent. Big Daddy and Billy Madison are by no means "great" movies, but I enjoy the characters he plays. Looking forward to Funny People, that said.

He's one of my pleasures. I don't want to say guilty pleasures because I don't feel guilty about any of my pleasures. I thought PDL was good, or at least interesting. It's roles like 50 First Dates, The Wedding Singer, and The Waterboy that I find myself compulsively watching every time they pop up on cable or whatever.

I thought at one point he was going to be in Inglourious Basterds. That would've been cool.

[MacGuffin]

I don't want to say guilty pleasures because I don't feel guilty about any of my pleasures.

Yes! I hate that term.

[Spinal]

Sandler is used to great effect in Punch-Drunk Love. I don't think that's the same thing as a good acting performance.

[megladon8]

Baby doll loves it, or he used to.


I don't think baby doll's opinion represents a film's overall reception.

[MacGuffin]

I don't think baby doll's opinion represents a film's overall reception.

No, probably not, just sayin'.

[balmakboor]

Sandler is used to great effect in Punch-Drunk Love. I don't think that's the same thing as a good acting performance.

Yeah. For me, PDL is, as I said a moment ago, a good and quite interesting movie. I also think it is the one movie where PTA tried too hard. He achieved some of his intended effects. Unfortunately, the performances in general feel to me like effects, like the weird musical score and those strange shots of abstract colors were effects.

He sure snapped back nicely though. There Will Be Blood is one of the greatest American films I've seen lately.

[Winston*]

I thought its reputation was that it was pretty mediocre.

Are you thinking of Michael Mann's Ali?

[B-side]

I thought its reputation was that it was pretty mediocre.


Are you thinking of Michael Mann's Ali?

?

[balmakboor]

Are you thinking of Michael Mann's Ali?

I should have a double-bill sometime. There are two sports movies that got a bit trashed by the critics and I've never seen, probably because of that, but that I want to see. Mann's Ali and Stone's Any Given Sunday.

[Ezee E]

I should have a double-bill sometime. There are two sports movies that got a bit trashed by the critics and I've never seen, probably because of that, but that I want to see. Mann's Ali and Stone's Any Given Sunday.
I bet you'd love Any Given Sunday

[Winston*]

?

Ali: Fear Eats the Soul has a reputation as being one of these masterpiece arthouse films, Michael Mann's Ali has a reputation of being mediocre. I thought it was possible that megladon8 misread your post and thought you were referring to the latter.

[balmakboor]

I bet you'd love Any Given Sunday

I kind of suspect I will too.

[Ivan Drago]

Him as Billy Madison is one of the most annoying creations I've ever seen. Love the Family Guy rip on him.

He has since gotten better, much better.

Which one are you talking about? The seagull at an Adam Sandler movie? Or another one?

And I agree he's gotten a lot better since Billy Madison. I'm one of the few in my group of friends that doesn't like that movie.

- I want to see Ali and Any Given Sunday. The former for Jon Voight as Howard Cosell and the latter because...it's Al Pacino...in a football movie. Sold.

[Ezee E]

The seagull one.

[origami_mustache]

I've only seen the BDR trilogy and Ali: Fear Eats the Soul so far, but I'm finally getting around to Fassbinder's stuff. Next up is The Third Generation and In Year With 13 Moons, both of which he shot himself apparently.

[Qrazy]

There have certainly been better attempts at the archetype since then, of this there is no doubt. However, the cinematography is stunning, and if I weren't a stronger man, I would admit to a man-crush on Alan Ladd.

But, I am. So I won't.


sigh

I didn't find the cinematography all that stunning. It had it's moments.

[Qrazy]

Sandler is used to great effect in Punch-Drunk Love. I don't think that's the same thing as a good acting performance.

He gives a good performance in that film, whether the director brought it out of him or not, he still gave the performance. Credit where it's due.

[megladon8]

Ali: Fear Eats the Soul has a reputation as being one of these masterpiece arthouse films, Michael Mann's Ali has a reputation of being mediocre. I thought it was possible that megladon8 misread your post and thought you were referring to the latter.


And you were right in thinking that ;)

Sorry for the confusion.

[The Mike]

Any Given Sunday is one of the most difficult movies for me to turn away from if I ever catch it on TV. I don't know if I can count the times I've watched half of it edited, then got mad and put in the DVD to watch the full thing.

Love it.

[B-side]

Ali: Fear Eats the Soul has a reputation as being one of these masterpiece arthouse films, Michael Mann's Ali has a reputation of being mediocre. I thought it was possible that megladon8 misread your post and thought you were referring to the latter.

Right. I quoted your post as I was wondering the same thing.

[Watashi]

I couldn't believe that Papillon was based on a true story and when I read that the author (the main character in the film) made most of it up, it made sense.

[chrisnu]

Any thoughts on Adam Sandler as an actor? I'm not going to call him great, because I haven't seen Punch-Drunk Love, but I certainly think he is decent. Big Daddy and Billy Madison are by no means "great" movies, but I enjoy the characters he plays. Looking forward to Funny People, that said.
He can act well when working with good material. The same goes for Ben Stiller. I really hate most of their disposable comedies, though.

[MacGuffin]

He can act well when working with good material. The same goes for Ben Stiller. I really hate most of their disposable comedies, though.

I don't know if I can stand up for Ben Stiller, he doesn't do much for me.

[soitgoes...]

I don't know if I can stand up for Ben Stiller, he doesn't do much for me.

I would much rather watch a Stiller movie over a Sandler film. Sandler has never been funny to me. I hated him on SNL, and I'll almost always avoid his films. The exception is PDL which uses him perfectly. Stiller has Zoolander which is endlessly quotable, as well as Flirting with Disaster.

[MacGuffin]

I would much rather watch a Stiller movie over a Sandler film. Sandler has never been funny to me. I hated him on SNL, and I'll almost always avoid his films. The exception is PDL which uses him perfectly. Stiller has Zoolander which is endlessly quotable, as well as Flirting with Disaster.

This "uses him perfectly" thing is really intriguing me.

[soitgoes...]

This "uses him perfectly" thing is really intriguing me.
The role is perfect for him, but it doesn't mean he's a great actor. The role, as written, fits his persona perfectly, but without the immense dose of annoying that he usually brings to his films. Keanu Reeves has The Matrix and Point Break, Sandler has PDL.

[B-side]

I'm starting to think Ozu just isn't for me. Good Morning was a chore. His characters are so robotic and lifeless. This could be intentional. I don't know. I honestly cannot recall a single scenario in which I even admired any sense of wit, let alone laugh or even care. I started doing other stuff in the meantime. It's just so dull. Tokyo Story was at least pretty engaging. Ugh.

[balmakboor]

I'm starting to think Ozu just isn't for me. Good Morning was a chore. His characters are so robotic and lifeless. This could be intentional. I don't know. I honestly cannot recall a single scenario in which I even admired any sense of wit, let alone laugh or even care. I started doing other stuff in the meantime. It's just so dull. Tokyo Story was at least pretty engaging. Ugh.

I had happened to buy Good Morning just days before I came down with some virus that put me on the couch for a week. I watched it twice a day all week and totally fell in love with it. It was my favorite movie for a while and it has now settled in as merely one of about a dozen favorite Ozus. I find the entire "Noriko Trilogy" (Late Spring, Early Summer, Tokyo Story) to be delicious beyond compare.

Btw, I wish I'd been born about 40 year earlier so I could have married Setsuko Hara.

[MacGuffin]

Hmm, should I get the Six Moral Tales box set or the 4 by Agnes Varda box set. I'm leaning strongly towards the Rohmer, but how are the extras and the packaging for them (I already know the Rohmer set comes with those books)?

[megladon8]

I'm with Qrazy.

Regardless of whether the performance was brought out by the director, or if the role was "perfect for him", Sandler was still the one who was doing the acting.

I thought he was great in it, and generally I find Sandler is able to give a believable humanity to his roles.

[number8]

Has anyone here ever tried to watch Ben Stiller's dramatic work?

You know, Permanent Midnight, Black and White...

[chrisnu]

Has anyone here ever tried to watch Ben Stiller's dramatic work?

You know, Permanent Midnight, Black and White...
The only dramatic work I've seen of his is Your Friends & Neighbors, and I thought he was very good.

[baby doll]

Hmm, should I get the Six Moral Tales box set or the 4 by Agnes Varda box set. I'm leaning strongly towards the Rohmer, but how are the extras and the packaging for them (I already know the Rohmer set comes with those books)?Varda's way awesomer than Rohmer.

[Ezee E]

I saw one serious movie where he was a drug user. Seeing his comedic roles, it makes me laugh watching him be serious.

[MacGuffin]

The Forest for the Trees is extremely difficult. It is about a woman who leaves her small German town, her job as a college professor, and her boyfriend and moves to a bigger city where she is given a job as a fifth grade teacher at a prestigious high school. Unfortunately, she gets herself into so many social blunders that she completely alienates herself from society and from the moment where she meets one of her neighbors and says she has a housewarming gift for him and then corrects herself and says that would be something he would give to her, I knew I would be watching a train wreck, and it really is. The students misbehave and throw chocolate milk at her. The teachers hate her because she can't control her students — she even moves up to teach ninth grade and doesn't do any better. The one person who seems to understand how she might be feeling is shut down by her (in a move by the film's writer, if all of the lead's other dumb decisions that made her appear rather weak didn't do it, that made me go as far as not really feeling sorry for her alienation). She goes to the point of stalking her neighbor, who is nice the woman at first, but then the woman won't give her neighbor any distance and clings to her as if she was her best friend (she even spies on her with binoculars). So yeah, not a very pleasant movie, but the director has some talent, I think.

[Sycophant]

The only dramatic work I've seen of his is Your Friends & Neighbors, and I thought he was very good.

Indeed.

[Ezee E]

Blue Collar - :eek:

Who has seen this? Never heard it discussed, and loved the hell out of it.

[number8]

I saw one serious movie where he was a drug user. Seeing his comedic roles, it makes me laugh watching him be serious.

That would be Permanent Midnight. He was pretty good, actually.

[Rowland]

I'll throw a :eek: out there for my first viewing of Wendy and Lucy tonight. Phenomenal work, gracious to the integrity of its characters and the milieu they inhabit, elegant in its expressive formal and narrative minimalism, and thoughtfully politicized without being overly didactic, ending with a powerful, absolutely earned emotional climax that had me fighting back tears.

[baby doll]

Although it's a good film, Les Chansons d'amour was painful to watch in places because it kept reminding me of how beautiful Paris is.

[Spun Lepton]

I Am Legend -- Did they need to computer-animate all of the ghouls? Ending was pretty bleh. Good performance from Smith. 6/10

Heartbeeps is on cable right now. It's so bad, I can't stop watching. Andy Kaufman and Bernadette Peters should be able to carry a movie, but the dialogue is so inane, nobody could've made it sound good. The characters are inconsistent as hell, emotional one moment, and stiffly logical the next. They couldn't decide whether it was a kids movie or something more mature. She's a companion-bot. There's a lot of talk about rubbing, er, engaging "pleasure centers" and whatever. Then, for the kids, there's the cute robot, and the robot that tells bad one-liners. Stan Winston did the make-up on this! John Williams did the music!! There's a really young Randy Quaid, too. 2/10

[B-side]

Kinda random, but I'm delving into the early surrealist/dadaist movement. Wasn't even a conscious decision, just started happening. I was watching a Guy Maddin short and just, somehow, felt compelled to see some Man Ray. Moved onto Entr'acte after 2 Ray's and am now acquiring The Blood of a Poet. It's nice to see a group of filmmakers so enamored with the medium and its possibilities.

[origami_mustache]

I Am Legend

Heartbeeps is on cable right now. It's so bad, I can't stop watching. Andy Kaufman and Bernadette Peters should be able to carry a movie, but the dialogue is so inane, nobody could've made it sound good. The characters are inconsistent as hell, emotional one moment, and stiffly logical the next. They couldn't decide whether it was a kids movie or something more mature. She's a companion-bot. There's a lot of talk about rubbing, er, engaging "pleasure centers" and whatever. Then, for the kids, there's the cute robot, and the robot that tells bad one-liners. Stan Winston did the make-up on this! John Williams did the music!! There's a really young Randy Quaid, too. 2/10

Yeah, it's pretty awful, but watching Andy do anything is captivating enough so it was worth it for me at least. It actually was nominated for an Oscar for makeup haha.

[balmakboor]

Heartbeeps is on cable right now.

I've never seen this although I am admittedly curious. It was Allan Arkush's follow-up to one of my favorite movies Rock 'n' Roll High School. He also may a pretty good rock 'n' roll movie after it called Get Crazy. That movie flopped completely and only saw some life on cable and home video. Since then, he's gone on to become one of the busiest and most successful TV directors in the business.

[Russ]

I've never seen this although I am admittedly curious. It was Allan Arkush's follow-up to one of my favorite movies Rock 'n' Roll High School. He also may a pretty good rock 'n' roll movie after it called Get Crazy. That movie flopped completely and only saw some life on cable and home video. Since then, he's gone on to become one of the busiest and most successful TV directors in the business.
Get Crazy is pretty great. I would love to see it get a release on DVD. Some inspired casting too, esp. Malcolm McDowell as the Jagger-esque singer, Reggie Wanker.

[balmakboor]

Get Crazy is pretty great. I would love to see it get a release on DVD. Some inspired casting too, esp. Malcolm McDowell as the Jagger-esque singer, Reggie Wanker.

Yeah, I hedged my bet on it a bit. I haven't seen it for about 20 years. I remember enjoying it quite a bit though.

Rock 'n' Roll High School is on DVD and is very much worth a look. Arkush wanted to get Cheap Trick for the band within the movie, but it didn't work out. It was a great stroke of luck that he got The Ramones instead. The scene where PJ Soles fantasizes that they are performing in her bedroom is one of my all-time favorite scenes.

[Russ]

The scene where PJ Soles fantasizes that they are performing in her bedroom is one of my all-time favorite scenes.
Heh. Mine too.

Ah, PJ Soles. Was that not as perfect a casting choice as the Ramones? Btw, seems like I remember reading somewhere that RnRHS was originally supposed to cash in on the disco craze with the title, Disco High (courtesy of Corman), until Arkush heard the Ramones and lobbied for them.

There's some really neat trivia on this film from IMDb. My favorite:

As an inside joke regarding producer Roger Corman's notoriously stingy budget on the movie, sounds of birds going "cheap, cheap, cheap" can be heard as the New World Pictures credit appears onscreen.


:)

[Melville]

Kinda random, but I'm delving into the early surrealist/dadaist movement. Wasn't even a conscious decision, just started happening. I was watching a Guy Maddin short and just, somehow, felt compelled to see some Man Ray. Moved onto Entr'acte after 2 Ray's and am now acquiring The Blood of a Poet. It's nice to see a group of filmmakers so enamored with the medium and its possibilities.
Have you seen Emak Bakia? It's one of my favorites. Entr'acte is fun, but I found The Blood of a Poet kind of tedious.

[megladon8]

I went into a re-watch of Donnie Darko expecting it to be a huge letdown. I hadn't seen it since the age of 16, and honestly expected it to be one of those films that I appreciated as a teenager, but now find simplistic and ridiculous.

But no, it's still just as good as it was back then.

Like American Psycho, it's as much a commentary on '80s culture as it is its own psychological thriller/horror.

It has an energy and purity to it that is so rare I just cannot deny that I still find it exhilirating to watch.

And I can really identify with how Donnie felt. I, too, was an over-medicated teenager who, as a result, just became a shell of my former self. And I hadn't realized until now how much my own film script, "Awake", was influenced by this film's themes and tone.

Oh and it has one of the best soundtracks of any movie, ever. Any film that opens with Echo & the Bunnymen can't be all that bad.

[Grouchy]

http://www.alicia-logic.com/capsimages/o_000TildaSwinton.jpg

Huh, Orlando was weird. I wish I'd read the Woolf novel so that I could take more out of it, but this film really did a good job of stimulating me into getting into her. Tilda Swinton is an AMAZING actress - she provides really good close-ups, too. He/She really makes the backbone of the film. I find Sally Potter somehow went too over the top with the strangeness at times, like that angel thingy on the ending scene. I didn't get what that was supposed to be all about. The film has some hilarious scenes that capitalize on that same absurdity, though, so it's all good.

Benny's Video is lesser Haneke on my book. In fact, scratch that - it's amazing until the kid gets sent to Egypt and then it becomes too slow and morose for my tastes, although the conclusion is awesome. One of Haneke's greatest strenghts is that he makes violence, even off-screen violence, as painful as it's supposed to be, even for desensitized movie audiences like, eh, me. His usage of Toxic Avenger footage was a little problematic for me, since it's a parody movie, so if he was trying to make any statement on media violence, he picked the wrong VHS. I found a big Bresson influence on this movie, by the way, specially with all the shots of hands early on.

[megladon8]

I just haven't been able to get into Haneke at all.

I haven't enjoyed any of the three films I've seen by him.

[Ezee E]

Code Unknown is the only Haneke I don't like of the for I've seen.

[soitgoes...]

I just haven't been able to get into Haneke at all.

I haven't enjoyed any of the three films I've seen by him.
I can definitely see how he can be disliked, but for me he is one of, if not the, best contemporary directors out there. I still have to see a couple more of his films. Added bonus: KG has fan-made subs for Wer war Edgar Allan?. I'm excited to see some of his early TV work.

[Melville]

Huh, Orlando was weird. I wish I'd read the Woolf novel so that I could take more out of it, but this film really did a good job of stimulating me into getting into her. Tilda Swinton is an AMAZING actress - she provides really good close-ups, too. He/She really makes the backbone of the film. I find Sally Potter somehow went too over the top with the strangeness at times, like that angel thingy on the ending scene. I didn't get what that was supposed to be all about. The film has some hilarious scenes that capitalize on that same absurdity, though, so it's all good.
Yeah, I didn't quite know what to make of that angel. But I loved the movie. svensos and I had a pretty good discussion about it, which ended here (http://match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=66008&postcount=13348).

[Grouchy]

Code Unknown is the only Haneke I don't like of the for I've seen.
Same here. I didn't get what that was all about. Maybe a rewatch would help.

And meg, I'd that you're not supposed to "enjoy" some of Haneke's films, like Funny Games for example, at least on the basic entertainment level. In fact, the slow pacing is a hint that sometimes you're supposed to read things in the images and actions of the characters that aren't on the surface.

[megladon8]

And meg, I'd that you're not supposed to "enjoy" some of Haneke's films, like Funny Games for example, at least on the basic entertainment level. In fact, the slow pacing is a hint that sometimes you're supposed to read things in the images and actions of the characters that aren't on the surface.


Eh, that's kind of the same as saying "you just don't get it".

I understand that they are not films to entertain the same way that a Batman movie is, but I still don't like them.

I don't find them interesting, intriguing or thought-provoking. After seeing three of his films and not liking any of them, there are other arthouse directors I'm more interested in exploring.

[Dukefrukem]

Didn't we have a Taken thread somewhere? it's not coming up in a search.

[soitgoes...]

Didn't we have a Taken thread somewhere? it's not coming up in a search.

EDIT: Nevermind. You found the thread. Apparently there are two threads for this mediocre film.

[megladon8]

I was absolutely sure I'd seen Blue Velvet before - so sure that I've rated it on here before.

However, it was given to me for my birthday, and while watching it last night I didn't remember or recognize any of it. The plot with finding the ear I remembered, but none of it rang a bell at all.

Anyways, I was enjoying it. I watched about half of it before falling asleep (from exhaustion, not boredom).

[Sven]

Sorry if I'm late to the game, but has anyone seen the trailer for that new Judd Apatow film Funny People?

I'm honestly trying to be as objective as I can, but boy, oh, boy, that was just about the worst thing I've ever seen.

[megladon8]

Sorry if I'm late to the game, but has anyone seen the trailer for that new Judd Apatow film Funny People?

I'm honestly trying to be as objective as I can, but boy, oh, boy, that was just about the worst thing I've ever seen.


I thought it looked awful, too.

[MacGuffin]

Sorry if I'm late to the game, but has anyone seen the trailer for that new Judd Apatow film Funny People?

I'm honestly trying to be as objective as I can, but boy, oh, boy, that was just about the worst thing I've ever seen.

It looks pretty funny to me.

[Raiders]

I'm back!

Reading through the thread there is little I really have to say to all the discussions.

Oh, and of the four Haneke films I have seen, Code Unknown is the only one I actually like. So, there's that.

[Boner M]

I think I hated movies this weekend. Tried to watch S. Ray's Mahanagar, made it 1/2 hour before deciding it was boring didactic crap and switched it off; tried N. Ray's The Lusty Men and just got kinda bored for no good reason and switched it off a 1/3 of the way through, then decided to watch Texas Chainsaw Massacre for the umpteenth time and thought 'I know this movie's awesome but I'm just not feeling it' and gave it the boot as well. I also got my Imamura and American Avant-Garde boxsets in the mail and could only be frustrated with how much I paid for each.

Then there was reading that Cannes thread... :frustrated:

[soitgoes...]

Floating Weeds is indeed great. Ozu once again tackles the everyday struggles of a family. His family this time is more dysfunctional than in most of his films. There's a strong bitter streak that runs through the film, Ã* la Flavor of Green Tea Over Rice, but it is balanced nicely with some lighter moments. Ozu as usual frames his shots impeccably, absolutely beautiful mise en scène. Definitely a step up from his original A Story of Floating Weeds, as well as his other remake of the same year, the much lighter Good Morning.

[soitgoes...]

I think I hated movies this weekend. Tried to watch S. Ray's Mahanagar, made it 1/2 hour before deciding it was boring didactic crap and switched it off; tried N. Ray's The Lusty Men and just got kinda bored for no good reason and switched it off a 1/3 of the way through, then decided to watch Texas Chainsaw Massacre for the umpteenth time and thought 'I know this movie's awesome but I'm just not feeling it' and gave it the boot as well. I also got my Imamura and American Avant-Garde boxsets in the mail and could only be frustrated with how much I paid for each.

Then there was reading that Cannes thread... :frustrated:
Well that being said, I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts on the Imamura films when you get around to them. Sorry your film experiences were crappy this weekend.

[Winston*]

I think I hated movies this weekend. Tried to watch S. Ray's Mahanagar, made it 1/2 hour before deciding it was boring didactic crap and switched it off; tried N. Ray's The Lusty Men and just got kinda bored for no good reason and switched it off a 1/3 of the way through, then decided to watch Texas Chainsaw Massacre for the umpteenth time and thought 'I know this movie's awesome but I'm just not feeling it' and gave it the boot as well. I also got my Imamura and American Avant-Garde boxsets in the mail and could only be frustrated with how much I paid for each.

Then there was reading that Cannes thread... :frustrated:

I saw Star Tracks. It had 'splosions and was fun to see.

[Rowland]

I think I hated movies this weekend. Tried to watch S. Ray's Mahanagar, made it 1/2 hour before deciding it was boring didactic crap and switched it off; tried N. Ray's The Lusty Men and just got kinda bored for no good reason and switched it off a 1/3 of the way through, then decided to watch Texas Chainsaw Massacre for the umpteenth time and thought 'I know this movie's awesome but I'm just not feeling it' and gave it the boot as well. I also got my Imamura and American Avant-Garde boxsets in the mail and could only be frustrated with how much I paid for each.

Then there was reading that Cannes thread... :frustrated:I feel you, these spells happen to me every now and then as well. I sometimes wonder if movies I dislike were merely unfortunate enough to be viewed during one of my down times.

[B-side]

Have you seen Emak Bakia? It's one of my favorites. Entr'acte is fun, but I found The Blood of a Poet kind of tedious.

Not yet. I'll watch it tonight.

[Boner M]

No cover for it yet, but Jeanne Dielman is finally getting a Criterion release on August 25th. :pritch:

Also:

http://criterion_production.s3.amazon aws.com/release_images/2293/NikkatsuNoir.jpg

http://criterion_production.s3.amazon aws.com/release_images/2281/485_box_348x490.jpg

[Amnesiac]

Yeah. For me, PDL is, as I said a moment ago, a good and quite interesting movie. I also think it is the one movie where PTA tried too hard. He achieved some of his intended effects. Unfortunately, the performances in general feel to me like effects, like the weird musical score and those strange shots of abstract colors were effects.

Yeah, I'm not seeing this.

[Ezee E]

Been waiting for Last Days of Disco for quite some time. Awesome.

[BuffaloWilder]

So, during one of those many penguin-centric discussions, I posted a link to a page discussing some of the stuff that Miller had cut out of Happy Feet. None of it was confirmed, but it was all very interesting, if suspect.

Well, rooting around Google earlier (because I have naught else to do with my time), this page (http://brooks.boyd.name/wordpress/2007/08/live-from-the-happy-feet-discussion-at-siggraph-2007/)turned up, after following link to link, completely by chance.

Here's what's most interesting -


5:55pm One of the underwater ice caves that Mumble gets chased by the leopard seal through has a face frozen into it in the concept art; wonder if that ever made it to the film…

5:58pm Some of the concept art is for “Spaceship interior” options 1-3… I don’t remember a spaceship in the movie. They’ve also got some concept for an ethereal-looking penguin, like what appeared over the heads of the dads at the beginning of the movie while they were singing in the night, but I don’t remember actually meeting ‘alien’ penguins…

So, there was a massive, massive chunk of plot cut out of the film.

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Watchmen-the-watchmen-215413_225_185.jpg

Herm. Possible conspiracy. Must investigate further.




Meanwhile, Terminator 2 still holds up almost as well as it did since the last time I'd seen it - however, I do believe that, throughout, I wanted to maim the young John Conner.

[BuffaloWilder]

I Am Legend -- Did they need to computer-animate all of the ghouls? Ending was pretty bleh. Good performance from Smith. 6/10



I Am Legend works remarkably well until the ending - both the theatrical and unused ending are pretty terrible, but the theatrical one abandons all intention of bringing the subplot of the vampire/zombies social development and Neville's status among them to a head, in favor of - well, you saw.

[B-side]

Have you seen Emak Bakia? It's one of my favorites. Entr'acte is fun, but I found The Blood of a Poet kind of tedious.

Just watched Emak Bakia. Definitely my favorite of the Man Ray's I've seen thus far.

[BuffaloWilder]

Also, speaking of things left on the cutting room floor, this article (http://chud.com/articles/articles/19577/1/EXCLUSIVE-WHAT-WENT-WRONG-WITH-TERMINATOR-SALVATION/Page1.html) about Terminator:Salvation is - pretty interesting.

[Grouchy]

Valkyrie is not as bad as early buzz had me believing, but it's not a great movie either. It's sort of torn between its limitations, since on the one side it has to make the most boring part of espionage (planning) exciting, but on the other hand it handles material too historically important to completely go the Hollywood way. On the former challenge, I think Synger did a good job of making a huge amount of characters distinct from each other and approachable from a human standpoint. Where the movie fails, I think, it's that it becomes too Cruise-centric. We learn more about his character than about anyone else except for Wilkinson's character, who isn't even one of the plot members, at least not officially. I don't think, for example, that the last shot of the film should have been dedicated to him, since the whole thing was clearly a joint effort. Still a very watchable and solid movie.

[Pop Trash]

http://criterion_production.s3.amazon aws.com/release_images/2281/485_box_348x490.jpg

I don't get Whit Stillman. I tried to watch Disco back when it first came out on video, got about a half an hour in, then turned it off. Then years later I tried to watch Metropolitan, and did the same thing. I found the characters unbearably bourgeois and the dialogue just :rolleyes: I seem to remember literally feeling physically worse watching the film then with it shut off.

I feel sort of the same way about Hal Hartley, but probably like him better than Stillman. Oddly, I like Noah Baumbach, who could be comparable to them.

[balmakboor]

Yeah, I'm not seeing this.

??

That was a strange and random post. Do you mean you're not planning to see Punch Drunk Love? Or do you mean you don't see what I mean?

I think everyone should see PDL. It's a very interesting film.

[balmakboor]

I notice that Criterion is releasing a Blu-ray of Playtime soon. Awesome! I have a question if anyone knows the answer. I own the standard def version already (actually I own both standard def releases). Do they have some kind of price break or trade-in option for people who want to upgrade?

Edit: Actually I found my answer in the FAQ. Send them the standard disc and $20.00 and they'll send you the Blu-ray disc.

[Spun Lepton]

Kung-Fu Panda -- Best Dreamworks computer-animated movie to date. I was so happy that it wasn't chocked full of pop-culture references. I'm flip-flopping between 7/10 and 8/10.

Get Smart -- I liked the cast quite a bit, and nobody phoned it in, which was nice. But the story was kind of bland and scattershot, and maybe two of the jokes made me really laugh. 5/10

[EyesWideOpen]

Rian Johnson is now two for two in my book with fantastic films. I really look forward to seeing where he goes from here.

[Amnesiac]

??

That was a strange and random post.

Was it really that strange? I meant I don't agree with your criticisms. I do not see the film that way. I guess I should have been clearer.

Anyways, Punch Drunk Love is actually one of my favorite movies and I am eagerly awaiting the recently announced Bluray.

[B-side]

Rian Johnson is now two for two in my book with fantastic films. I really look forward to seeing where he goes from here.

I really don't care about that movie at all. Brick was quite good, though.

[EyesWideOpen]

I really don't care about that movie at all. Brick was quite good, though.

I went into it blind without seeing a single trailer or anything about the plot other then the actors and the director.

[MacGuffin]

I went into it blind without seeing a single trailer or anything about the plot other then the actors and the director.

Yes, but is it quirky?

[EyesWideOpen]

Yes, but is it quirky?

Almost all movies are quirky, so I guess yes.

[B-side]

Has anyone here seen Venom and Eternity? It's been recommended to me highly.

[Grouchy]

Has Atlman ever made a bad movie? My first guess is no. Buffalo Bill and the Indians might be a simple-minded satire of Americana, ok (far more critical of Hollywood than The Player), but it's ridiculously good stuff. Paul Newman was fucking born to play these kind or roles (he's unbelievably amazing in a better movie, The Lifes and Times of Judge Roy Bean) and Altman simply stages the whole thing into a huge roller-coaster of irony that's hard to upstage. Sure, the dream sequence where he talks to Sitting Bull isn't the most subtle piece of social/political filmmaking, but the close-up of Newman's troubled eyes near the end expresses the whole idea of the movie quite brilliantly, and frankly, it's all very entertaining to watch. Bob Altman is quickly becoming one of my favorite directors.

http://chud.com/nextraimages/cable_hogue_image%20(4).jpg

Right after this I popped in Stealing Beauty, but since it wasn't anamorphic and I was quickly becoming quite drunk, I chose to put one of my favorite movies, The Ballad of Cable Hogue, and damn it if it isn't one of the best things I've ever watched. Simply a great monument to life and its many quirky moments. Love the movie and will always hold it up as a proof of all the emotions the films are capable of arousing.

[megladon8]

So Blue Velvet was quite good, but not without some glaring flaws. I still feel Mulholland Dr. is Lynch's best film to date.

It explored some controversial themes in fascinating ways, the most interesting of which was its strong and perhaps even sexist look at female sexuality. Though I felt it was more a comment on how female sexuality has evolved in a world dominated by men.

Frank was certainly a...creep. :confused:

[chrisnu]

So Blue Velvet was quite good, but not without some glaring flaws. I still feel Mulholland Dr. is Lynch's best film to date.
I feel that's his best film also, but I'd like to read a little more about what you considered the film's flaws. I had misgivings about Blue Velvet when I first saw it, particularly with how the film ended, but everything clicked for me on a second viewing.

[Amnesiac]

Speaking of Blue Velvet, has anyone here seen River's Edge (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091860/)?

[megladon8]

I feel that's his best film also, but I'd like to read a little more about what you considered the film's flaws. I had misgivings about Blue Velvet when I first saw it, particularly with how the film ended, but everything clicked for me on a second viewing.


Well I found both Laura Dern's dream about robins (and similarly the ending with the robin landing at the window) to be a little too obvious an analogy, especially since so many of the film's themes are presented in a way that require substantial thought from the audience.

While I've read interpretations of this saying that the obviously-fake robin eating the bug at the end is showing that this "love" brought into their lives is only a fleeting illusion, I find this a little hard to take. Personally I think it was just a poor effect, and the message conveyed was a very simple "Frank's gone, things are better" type thing which didn't sit well after all I'd seen prior.

It made the film feel almost like a fairy tale, which is interesting in concept but, again, coming after all that we have seen and experienced before-hand, to suddenly throw that in there was a little silly.

I also found that whole conversation between Kyle MacLachlan and Laura Dern where she tells of the robin dream to be pretty guilty of "theme-spouting" as some might call it. While I've never been one to pick on this type of thing, it wasn't consistent with the rest of the film. I quite liked the repeated line "It's a strange world", but when MacLachlan starts saying things like "Why are there people like Frank? Why is there so much trouble in the world?" it was like Lynch was trying to drive home one of the most basic themes in the story - and one that really didn't need that clarification.

[Amnesiac]

It made the film feel almost like a fairy tale, which is interesting in concept but, again, coming after all that we have seen and experienced before-hand, to suddenly throw that in there was a little silly.

I'm pretty certain you're expected to find that scene a little suspect. That's the point. I don't think Lynch was trying to wipe away all that had happened and sell that little episode with Frank as a fairy-tale. The point is that the film's finale is decidedly silly after what Jeffrey has seen. Just like the group of ravenous insects undermining the buoyancy of happy-go-lucky American suburbia, I totally buy the off-kilter artificiality of the robin as Lynch's way of pointing towards the same kind of dissonance. And even if you don't buy the robin as a deliberate conceit, then the film's over joyous finale and its return to an existence that is so excessively blithe should be a strong indicator that Lynch believes in that facade about as much as you do.



I quite liked the repeated line "It's a strange world", but when MacLachlan starts saying things like "Why are there people like Frank? Why is there so much trouble in the world?" it was like Lynch was trying to drive home one of the most basic themes in the story - and one that really didn't need that clarification.

I saw this as fitting in rather well with Jeffrey's characterization as an especially wide-eyed, ingenuous youth getting his first look at the seedy underbelly of his suburban milieu. I don't see that as Lynch driving home one of the most basic themes so much as staying true to Jeffrey's characterization as a guileless, yet intrepid, protagonist. There's a naivety to Jeffrey that I think is pretty deliberate.

[chrisnu]

Hmm. I can understand how if you don't buy the ending as ironic, or even cynical, it could come across as corny. Sandy telling Jeffrey about her dream came across as genuine to me; if I remember correctly, it happened after the most effervescent moments of the film (when Sandy and Jeffrey go to the party). It felt like a genuine emotional response to me. I think Jeffrey asking "Why are there people like Frank? Why is there so much trouble in the world?" is his way of questioning the darkness in himself, which is revealed to him more and more as the film goes on. While I don't think Frank is exactly correct when he tells Jeffrey "you're like me", he does have more in common with Frank than he'd like to admit. I think the ending of the film shows that he'll continue to willfully ignore that, particularly now that the reminder is out of the way.

I haven't seen River's Edge, so I can't comment.

[megladon8]

Yes, I recognized that Jeffrey was quite naive and that all of the events of the film formed a brutal awakening for him with sex, violence and depravity.

But I still find that line clunky. I knew that Jeffrey was naive, and that Lynch was showing us this suburban underbelly of corruption and sickness. I didn't need Jeffrey to say those lines to remind me of his character or of the film's themes.

[Amnesiac]

It felt like a genuine emotional response to me. I think Jeffrey asking "Why are there people like Frank? Why is there so much trouble in the world?" is his way of questioning the darkness in himself, which is revealed to him more and more as the film goes on.

Yeah, this is a good point as well. The naivety is two-fold. It operates both in regards to him discovering the seedier aspects of his social milieu that had long remained hidden from him as well as coming to terms with (and later disavowing) his own propensity for subversive behaviour.

I can't really find much to hate with that line as I view it more as a case of consistent, and relevant, characterization rather than something wholly redundant.

[Spun Lepton]

Evolution is on HBO right now. (At least, I think it's HBO. Too lazy to check. :P) Orlando Jones is the funniest part of this flick.

"I think we established that caw-caw and tookie-tookie don't work!"

[baby doll]

Has Atlman ever made a bad movie?A Wedding and The Player come to mind.

[Raiders]

Evolution

Most people despise and hate this movie. I have always found it somewhat endearing and amusing. Maybe it is just my love of Duchovny.

[baby doll]

I don't get Whit Stillman. I tried to watch Disco back when it first came out on video, got about a half an hour in, then turned it off. Then years later I tried to watch Metropolitan, and did the same thing. I found the characters unbearably bourgeois and the dialogue just :rolleyes: I seem to remember literally feeling physically worse watching the film then with it shut off.

I feel sort of the same way about Hal Hartley, but probably like him better than Stillman. Oddly, I like Noah Baumbach, who could be comparable to them.I don't know what to say, except: Duh! Of course the characters are unbearably bourgeois. That's the whole freakin' point!

[Spinal]

Altman has made more than one bad movie:

Beyond Therapy
Ready to Wear
Gosford Park

I'll reserve judgment on Popeye until I see it as an adult.

[Spun Lepton]

Altman's Kansas City is mind-numbing.

[Milky Joe]

Yeah, I don't think it's possible for someone to make as many films as Altman did and not make a bad one or two (or several). When he hits, though...

[number8]

Most people despise and hate this movie. I have always found it somewhat endearing and amusing. Maybe it is just my love of Duchovny.

Lost of people on Match Cut love it, though. See Ghostbusters 3 thread for proof.

[Spinal]

Yeah, I don't think it's possible for someone to make as many films as Altman did and not make a bad one or two (or several). When he hits, though...

I've seen about 25 Bergman films and I've yet to see one that I would call bad. Haven't seen Serpent's Egg though, which seems to be the one with the poorest reputation.

[Spinal]

Out of the 74 films from 2001 I have seen, Evolution is my 74th favorite.

[Beau]

I've seen about 25 Bergman films and I've yet to see one that I would call bad. Haven't seen Serpent's Egg though, which seems to be the one with the poorest reputation.

I'm watching that soon.

[MacGuffin]

Everyone needs to see La cérémonie before the consensus.

[Russ]

Altman has made more than one bad movie:

Beyond Therapy grrrrrr
Ready to Wear
Gosford Park

I'll reserve judgment on Popeye until I see it as an adult.
My point has always been that there is indeed some "value", even to the bad ones; your mileage (read: Spinal) may vary, but...it's Altman. Yeah, I know BT's "bad" in a textbook sense, but I don't let that prevent it from being a film I really enjoy(a lot, and I ain't ashamed to admit it) for a plethora of reasons.

Case in point: H.E.A.L.T.H., a film (from memory of many years ago), that I utterly despise; however, from reading Sven's observations of a recent viewing he had, I remember certain highlights that were primo Altman. My original opinion of that film, however, was a distaste for the toxicity and bitterness with which Altman laced the film...it's incredibly mean-spirited...no doubt a reflection of his disillusionment with many things at the time, the film industry probably primary among them.