28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Rowland]

I have problems with his film and those types of (food) stunts in general but I agree that the figures being thrown around here about the relatively 'harmless' fast-food industry are entirely arbitrary. Even regardless of the nutrition issues here, the industry is absolutely terrible for the environment.Ahh! I didn't say the industry was harmless. I said the occasional hamburger and fries within the context of the average diet is relatively harmless. Extrapolation! :frustrated: :lol:

[Barty]

If only all fast food was like In-N-Out :pritch:

[Qrazy]

You say this like it doesn't describe the majority of our population.

That's why I host my own parties.

[Rowland]

Kurosawa's Loft is more or less another Doppelganger. What starts out as a serious, creepy horror film quickly becomes a series of anti-horror film gestures that are ridiculous and absurd, none moreso than the wonderful shot of a man turning face to face with a ghost, and casually walking right by it. The ending was also hilarious.Doppelganger works straight as well though, in the sense that the narrative, characters, and subtext have a certain grounding to them. Loft just thrashes about all willy-nilly into baffling, increasingly awkward absurdity.

[Qrazy]

I edited my post to make my point clearer. The movie just strikes me as toothless. He's too busy goofing around, when the subject deserves a beared-fangs approach.

Disagree, comedy is a better way to get a point across.

[Rowland]

Disagree, comedy is a better way to get a point across.Not when the comedy is too prevalent over so many points that are missed. The movie panders by too-often shooting fish in a barrel, all under the veneer of easily digestible comedy and everyman affability, when it should be tearing down and inspiring.

[Sycophant]

Kurosawa's Loft is more or less another Doppelganger. What starts out as a serious, creepy horror film quickly becomes a series of anti-horror film gestures that are ridiculous and absurd, none moreso than the wonderful shot of a man turning face to face with a ghost, and casually walking right by it. The ending was also hilarious.By the way, did you find a copy that was actually decent (widescreen, etc.), as opposed to what Rowland watched a while back?

[Qrazy]

Ahh! I didn't say the industry was harmless. I said the occasional hamburger and fries within the context of the average diet is relatively harmless. Extrapolation! :frustrated: :lol:

No, you didn't but I'm just saying that even if people go there once a month there still funding an exploitive institution that has little to no, perhaps negative, social value.

Anyway, I think I more or less agree with you about the film technique... although he did contextualize the experiment in with the lawsuits. But Spurlock and Moore films are more about attention seeking and pushing their political agenda than about saying anything particularly contemplative.

I think Fasozupow was on to something earlier when he hinted that we really ought to be discussing whether or not rhetoric and band-standing has a place in cinema, and if it has a place than to what degree and in what sense can it be compared to other documentaries. Also, is it disingenuous to push a particular piece of deliberately (but perhaps not overly so) manipulative rhetoric on an audience, or only when you cloak it in the veil of objectivity. What should the goal of documentary film be? Should there be a goal?

I would venture that there should not be a goal per se but that filmmakers and artists in general ought to approach craftsmanship with a certain level of integrity... in the sense that their aim is to expose the truth without (m)any preconceived notions as to what that truth actually is... i.e. Let the film document speak for itself in order to effect change (if it has political goals)... versus pushing an agenda deliberately though-out, often resorting to manipulative or misleading tactics in order to do so.

[Spinal]

I hope I haven't come across as a fast-food apologist with all of this. Trust me, as exploitative corporate institutions, I think the industry is absolutely abhorrent. I've just been trying to fashion an argument around why I believe the movie to be less effective than I wish it was, which has inadvertently resulted in all these tangents. If anything, I believe the movie should have been so much more vicious, and more thoughtful in its approach as such. :)

Understood. You've made me think twice about places like Applebee's and Red Robin, etc.

[Watashi]

Is it just me or these last few pages making me really really hungry?

[Spinal]

Is it just me or these last few pages making me really really hungry?

Totally. I've been craving some chicken fajitas.

[Grouchy]

Speaking of longer cuts, anyone have any rough cut viewing stories? My only one was an on campus screening of an early 3+ hour cut of the ZAZ film Top Secret. It was interesting. Zucker, Abrams, and Zucker were in the audience taking notes. Basically, if the crowd laughed, they kept it in. I'd say the final runtime of 90 minutes was about right.
No, and this is only tangentially related to what you were asking, but a friend of mine rented a movie (El Fondo del Mar [The Bottom of the Sea], from here in Argentina) in VHS and for some reason it was the working copy. That means the sound wasn't properly equalized yet, there was still foley to be done and, in one blue screen shot (the man hanging from the building), well, huh, the screen was there. Raving bongo. I happened to be on his house while he was still holding it and he showed me the best parts.

What I don't get - regarding all this fast food talk - are those fat backwards mongoloids that sue McDonald's because they're sick or obese. Well, actually, they aren't so fucking stupid, because they must make some money in settlements out of their weaknesses, but still... I haven't seen Spurlock's movie, but I don't have anything against its existence despite the fact that most people already know McDonald's isn't too healthy to eat everyday. But those shitnecks suing companies because they're addicted to something absolutely EVERYONE knows is dangerous to consume in excess bug the living hell out of me.

I saw Amazon Women on the Moon today. It's a sketch movie aiming its darts mostly at TV and B-class science fiction, and with good directors like Joe Dante and John Landis involved. It's also clearly inspired by the craziness of Monty Python's Meaning of Life, which was released four years earlier. Still, Cleese and Co. this is not. Some of the sketchs are awesome (Silly Paté, Blacks without Soul, Son of the Invisible Man, Bullshit or Not?, Titan Condoms and well, a couple more), while others are either too stupid or go on for too long, something which the Pythons often did, but they spiced it up by increasing the nonsense. It's worth seeing once, though, and it has many star cameos from Michelle Pfeiffer, Griffin Dune, Arsenio Hall, B.B. King and other cool people. One of the final sketches, Video Pirates, is similar to one I thought of a while ago, only in reverse - the one in the movie is about real pirates stealing VHS as booty, and mine was about a "pirate" video store that doesn't actually sell bootlegs, it's just being run by pirates.

[Mysterious Dude]

Just watched Hiroshi Teshigahara's Pitfall. It seemed very surreal and artistic at first, but once you get past the dead guy walking around, it was a pretty standard murder mystery. Still, it was entertaining, and I like the ending. I think I should rewatch Woman in the Dunes.

I didn't like When a Woman Ascends the Stairs one bit. I found it very soap operatic and false.

[origami_mustache]

I know what it means. I think it's incorrect, though. I don't believe he had anything to do with Fail-Safe. If he did, I'd like to see it from a non-IMDB source.

Looks like you're right...
This is what Wikipedia had to say:

Red Alert is a 1958 novel by Peter George about nuclear war. The book was the basis for Stanley Kubrick's film, Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb. It differs significantly from Kubrick's movie in that it is not a comedy.

Eugene Burdick and Harvey Wheeler's later bestseller Fail-Safe so closely resembled Red Alert in its premise that George sued on the charge of plagiarism, resulting in an out-of-court settlement. Both novels would inspire very different films that would both be released in 1964.

[Li Lili]

Again, your criticism begins with genre expectations and how Moore's film do not conform to those expectations.
I believe Moore's documentaries are only worth for the US, and can mainly, or even only, interest US or Anglo-Saxon countries, as an art form (cinema), there isn't much value.
Ok, it may sound a bit direct and harsh, but considering the amount of documentaries that are made in the world, his works are rather weak.
I apologize in advance for my acerbity.

[origami_mustache]

I believe Moore's documentaries are only worth for the US, and can mainly, or even only, interest US or Anglo-Saxon countries, as an art form (cinema), there isn't much value.
Ok, it may sound a bit direct and harsh, but considering the amount of documentaries that are made in the world, his works are rather weak.
I apologize in advance for my acerbity.

Completely agree.

[Mysterious Dude]

I do think Roger & Me is an excellent film, and a far better documentary than his other films.

[Li Lili]

Just watched Hiroshi Teshigahara's Pitfall. It seemed very surreal and artistic at first, but once you get past the dead guy walking around, it was a pretty standard murder mystery. Still, it was entertaining, and I like the ending. I think I should rewatch Woman in the Dunes.

I didn't like When a Woman Ascends the Stairs one bit. I found it very soap operatic and false.
Yes, I felt the same with Pitfall. The Face of Another and Woman in the Dune are masterpieces. I loved The Face of Another, highly recommended if you haven't seen it yet, very haunting and astonishing.
I still ahven't seen When a Woman Ascends the Stairs but Floating Clouds is a favourite film of mine.

[Bosco B Thug]

Kurosawa's Loft is more or less another Doppelganger. What starts out as a serious, creepy horror film quickly becomes a series of anti-horror film gestures that are ridiculous and absurd, none moreso than the wonderful shot of a man turning face to face with a ghost, and casually walking right by it. The ending was also hilarious. :eek: Does it have merits as such?! :eek:

[Melville]

Despite the negative reactions around here, I still had high hopes for Control. Unfortunately, it just wasn't very good. Scenes like that with the record company guy fainting after signing the contract with his own blood, or the earlier scene with Ian Curtis and his buddy visiting Curtis' future wife while high, were intolerably cute. The scene where Curtis laments in voice-over about the burdens of public performance seemed to come out of nowhere, and was never really tied into Curtis' general malaise. But the major problem was that the central love triangle was so poorly developed; Curtis' downward spiral entirely depended on one scene where he first meets and is smitten by his mistress, but the scene was completely unconvincing, and his mistress seemed like a perpetual nonentity. Without really evoking Curtis passion for his mistress, or his bitterness toward the bondage of his family life and fame, all the tragic scenes toward the end seemed like unearned tear-jerking. There was so much potential in this story that the end product is still worth watching, but I kept thinking that the story would have been better served by Peter Watkins in his Edvard Munch mode: Curtis' various obsessions should have been constantly hanging over the narrative, rather than just being perfunctorily introduced to show the tragedy of his downfall.

[origami_mustache]

Despite the negative reactions around here, I still had high hopes for Control. Unfortunately, it just wasn't very good. Scenes like that with the record company guy fainting after signing the contract with his own blood, or the earlier scene with Ian Curtis and his buddy visiting Curtis' future wife while high, were intolerably cute. The scene where Curtis laments in voice-over about the burdens of public performance seemed to come out of nowhere, and was never really tied into Curtis' general malaise. But the major problem was that the central love triangle was so poorly developed; Curtis' downward spiral entirely depended on one scene where he first meets and is smitten by his mistress, but the scene was completely unconvincing, and his mistress seemed like a perpetual nonentity. Without really evoking Curtis passion for his mistress, or his bitterness toward the bondage of his family life and fame, all the tragic scenes toward the end seemed like unearned tear-jerking. There was so much potential in this story that the end product is still worth watching, but I kept thinking that the story would have been better served by Peter Watkins in his Edvard Munch mode: Curtis' various obsessions should have been constantly hanging over the narrative, rather than just being perfunctorily introduced to show the tragedy of his downfall.

Disappointing to hear this...AGAIN. I too have been holding on to the hopes that Control isn't as meh as everyone has been saying. I guess I'll just wait to rent it then.

[Yxklyx]

Watched Mr. Hulot's Holiday again. There are so many subtleties in this little gem. For instance, during the card game mishap - the guy who plays the card sees the table and thinks that the card he played has been picked up so he folds all his cards together - the lady to his left who is expecting him to play a card takes this to mean that he doesn't want to play anymore so she gets all displeased and folds her cards too. All this is told in just a few frames of film without any dialogue. Another example, the English woman is searching around for Hulot who's gone missing and we hear the dogs barking off in the distance as she enters the hotel.:)

[BirdsAteMyFace]

Yay!Uh, indeed.

[balmakboor]

Watched Mr. Hulot's Holiday again. There are so many subtleties in this little gem. For instance, during the card game mishap - the guy who plays the card sees the table and thinks that the card he played has been picked up so he folds all his cards together - the lady to his left who is expecting him to play a card takes this to mean that he doesn't want to play anymore so she gets all displeased and folds her cards too. All this is told in just a few frames of film without any dialogue. Another example, the English woman is searching around for Hulot who's gone missing and we hear the dogs barking off in the distance as she enters the hotel.:)

Tati's films seem to have been designed to teach one how to be observant. No matter how closely I watch his films, I always find things I missed on subsequent viewings.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I rewatched the Man Who Planted Trees, still an awe-inspiring film that champions the redemptive side of the human spirit. The narration, in English or French is pitch perfect and the flickering animation style suits the content and is just so damn beautiful. It's not manipulative in the least but always manages to reduce me to tears. I think everyone should have to see this film.

[Watashi]

All About Eve ruled. George Sanders kicks so much ass.

[Philosophe_rouge]

All About Eve ruled. George Sanders kicks so much ass.
Yes, just yes. I need to revisit this, but I was talking about George Sanders yesterday for some reason and he indeed rocks the pants off this film. I want to strangle Eve, GAH!!! So much hatred. The party scene is incredible, and poor Marilyn having to endure the endless barbs from DeWitt.

[Rowland]

After being let down by my first Johnny To movie, the merely okay Breaking News, I'm extremely pleased to discover that Exiled is amazing. Now this is what I'm talking about. The doctor's apartment sequence had me so giddy that I was literally giggling from its sheer delirium.

[MacGuffin]

After being let down by my first Johnny To movie, the merely okay Breaking News, I'm extremely pleased to discover that Exiled is amazing. Now this is what I'm talking about.

I thought the only good thing about Breaking News was the opening shot.

[Melville]

While good, Tsai Ming-Liang's The Hole was slightly disappointing. Most of the same themes were more thoroughly and entertainingly dealt with in The Wayward Cloud. Anyway, besides this slight blip, my recent batch of blind buys was a great success. Thanks to everybody for their advice on the old website. Boner gets a special mention for first alerting me to the existence of Friday Night and The Son.

[Grouchy]

After being let down by my first Johnny To movie, the merely okay Breaking News, I'm extremely pleased to discover that Exiled is amazing. Now this is what I'm talking about. The doctor's apartment sequence had me so giddy that I was literally giggling from its sheer delirium.
I disagree with the "merely ok" part (I think Breaking News is a fantastic Woo-esque action film), but if you're looking for more To I can't recommend Election enough and even more Election 2 - renamed Triad Election in US. They're slow-paced crime dramas, very different from the shoot-out craze of News, and very unglamorous in their views of the mob while at the same time portraying the realistic and very unusual behavior of the Triads.

I haven't seen Exiled.

[Rowland]

While good, Tsai Ming-Liang's The Hole was slightly disappointing. Most of the same themes were more thoroughly and entertainingly dealt with in The Wayward Cloud. Anyway, besides this slight blip, my recent batch of blind buys was a great success. Thanks to everybody for their advice on the old website. Boner gets a special mention for first alerting me to the existence of Friday Night and The Son.I was a bit disappointed with The Hole as well, though I did like it just fine, and my appreciation for it has grown in retrospect. I LOVE the last shot, and the sight gag with the old man wandering around the deserted market still cracks me up.

[Rowland]

I disagree with the "merely ok" part (I think Breaking News is a fantastic Woo-esque action film), but if you're looking for more To I can't recommend Election enough and even more Election 2 - renamed Triad Election in US. They're slow-paced crime dramas, very different from the shoot-out craze of News, and very unglamorous in their views of the mob while at the same time portraying realistic and very unusual behavior of the Triads.

I haven't seen Exiled.Yeah, I'm going to have to get around to exploring the rest of his movies. The man has a large body of promising work.

If you thought Breaking News was fantastic, you have to see Exiled. It's much better.

[Melville]

I was a bit disappointed with The Hole as well, though I did like it just fine, and my appreciation for it has grown in retrospect. I LOVE the last shot, and the sight gag with the old man wandering around the deserted market still cracks me up.
Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised by the happy ending (which made me suddenly reevaluate the whole point of the movie), and the old guy scurrying around like a cockroach was disturbingly hilarious.

[origami_mustache]

I was a bit disappointed with The Hole as well, though I did like it just fine, and my appreciation for it has grown in retrospect. I LOVE the last shot, and the sight gag with the old man wandering around the deserted market still cracks me up.

I loved The Hole...although I really haven't been disappointed by any of Tsai's films. True, he does reexamine and expand upon many of the same themes in The Wayward Cloud, but reoccurring patterns in his filmography are common. Also I saw it before The Wayward Cloud, and saw the musical sequences as almost an antithesis to Tsai's usual work; incorporating lavish costuming, more rapid cutting, and quick camera movements, as well as lighting effects. I also found it be be Tsai's most amusing film. I still have an equal appreciation for both films.

[Rowland]

saw the musical sequences as almost an antithesis to Tsai's usual work; incorporating lavish costuming, more rapid cutting, and quick camera movements, as well as lighting effects.Really? Maybe my memory is faulty, but I remember the musical sequences being single-take affairs with deliberate camera movements.

[Stay Puft]

A Hero Never Dies is my favorite of the To films I've seen (admittedly only a handful). Some stark, colorful and arresting visuals throughout, and To is great at withholding information for dramatic effect (see also the opening segment of PTU).

Breaking News was fun, but only because of Nick Cheung and his infectious, gung-ho attitude. The opening shot of the movie is dullsville. Nick Cheung in pursuit of the bus is a much more accomplished scene. And he just keeps going, limping his way to the very end. Inspiring!

[origami_mustache]

Really? Maybe my memory is faulty, but I remember the musical sequences being single-take affairs with deliberate camera movements.

I think some might have been as such, but there were definitely cuts and moving shots.

[MacGuffin]

I couldn't finish Paprika. At least the soundtrack was good.

[Li Lili]

After being let down by my first Johnny To movie, the merely okay Breaking News, I'm extremely pleased to discover that Exiled is amazing. Now this is what I'm talking about. The doctor's apartment sequence had me so giddy that I was literally giggling from its sheer delirium.
Yes, I think I've seen almost all his films. Exiled is a very solid To's film, same as Election 1&2. In order of preference :
- The Mission (perhaps because it was one of the first I saw when it came out in theater).
- Running on Karma
- Election 1&2
- Exiled
- Running Out of Time
- PTU
- Where a Good Man Goes
- Throw Down
- A Hero Never Dies
- Fulltime Killer
- Breaking News
- Fireline

His wu xia/action comedies :
- Wu yen
- Justice, My Foot!
- The Heroic Trio
- Executioners
- The Enigmatic Case

His romantic comedies (mostly average but I guess entertaining)
- Yesterday Once More
- My Left Eye Sees Ghosts
- Loving You
- Turn Left, Turn Right
- Needing You...
- Love on a Diet
- Fat Choi Spirit

wow, I didn't think I've seen almost all... I guess I like Johnnie To. :P

[Li Lili]

While good, Tsai Ming-Liang's The Hole was slightly disappointing. Most of the same themes were more thoroughly and entertainingly dealt with in The Wayward Cloud. Anyway, besides this slight blip, my recent batch of blind buys was a great success. Thanks to everybody for their advice on the old website. Boner gets a special mention for first alerting me to the existence of Friday Night and The Son.
The thing is that The Hole was made much before The Wayward Cloud. I like very much this one also because the songs performed are Grace Chang's, very well known 60s star.

[Li Lili]

I loved The Hole...although I really haven't been disappoint by any of Tsai's films. True, he does reexamine and expand upon many of the same themes in The Wayward Cloud, but reoccurring patterns in his filmography are common. Also I saw it before The Wayward Cloud, and saw the musical sequences as almost an antithesis to Tsai's usual work; incorporating lavish costuming, more rapid cutting, and quick camera movements, as well as lighting effects. I also found it be be Tsai's most amusing film. I still have an equal appreciation for both films.
:pritch:

[Qrazy]

Yeelen was meh.

[Duncan]

Most Walmarts nowadays have a McDonalds inside them. Coincidence? I think not.

I don't know what that means.

[Spinal]

I couldn't finish Paprika. At least the soundtrack was good.

Iconoclasm!

[Winston*]

Iconoclasm!

He is The Captain. He is a rebel and an enigma. His ways are not our ways. His views are not our views, and for no man will he reveal the secrets of their birth. You ask for reason. You ask for logic. You ask for common courtesy. He will shout "Nay!". For He is The Captain.

[Qrazy]

Veronika Voss was a real disappointment, by far the worst Fassbinder I've seen yet. Scenes begin and end arbitrarily, shifting with some of the most atrocious wipes seen in cinematic history. The score never seems to fit the moment and in general the film just plods along to it's inevitably tragic conclusion.

It's a shame the execution is so poor, because the story at the heart of the film seems worth telling. And as usual Fassbinder's camera-work is composed of concise, often compelling imagery. His use of flares and bright lights provides an interesting and unique visual metaphor for the actress's glory days. The film has a few compelling monologues, such as the speech by the prescription doctor regarding the role of society as guardian of it's members, but by and large the film doesn't have that much to say and what it does say it says exceedingly poorly.

Not recommended.

Just to clarify, I didn't think it was a terrible film. Overall it was just mediocre, but very poor compared to the other Fassbinder's I've seen.

[Qrazy]

I like all of Egoyan's films, but Next of Kin, Speaking Parts and Ararat are especially interesting. I might've added Family Viewing to the list if it weren't for the lame ending, or Calendar for that matter, except it felt a bit too neat (the three characters are obviously stand-ins for different approaches to the issue of Armenian identity, making it Egoyan's most rhetorical film; it also happens to be his lightest and funniest). The Adjuster looks a lot better on second viewing (probably because I was watching it on DVD rather than VHS and cropped), though it still strikes me as somewhat forgettable, and it's been too long since I've seen Felicia's Journey to comment on it in any meaningful way. And Where the Truth Lies is definitely not lame; as grand, sleazy entertainment with one of Kevin Bacon's slimiest performances, it puts most Hollywood product to shame, although a second viewing confirmed for me that there's less here than meets the eye.

Thanks for the in depth response I'll get on those first three, hopefully over Christmas break.

[Qrazy]

On the other hand, Broadway Danny Rose was quite a pleasant surprise. I enjoyed the film a great deal. Allen is at his best when he's partnered with Gordon Willis. Allen can focus more explicitly on staging and drama while Willis seizes control of the visual mechanics of the film, which allows both the visuals and the drama to play out more naturally overall.

East of Eden wasn't nearly as good as I'd remembered it. After recently watching Boomerang, Baby Doll and Panic in the Streets I'd probably rank it below the last two but above Boomerang. One thing is that the film feels much too short for the subject matter and I understand that huge portions of the book were left out.

[Duncan]

I like that there's a small group of people here who consider Broadway Danny Rose one of Allen's best films, and even one or two who are willing to say it's his very best. Love that film.

[Qrazy]

Someone needs to rescue Griffin Dunne's career, the guy's incredibly like-able.

[Melville]

I saw it before The Wayward Cloud, and saw the musical sequences as almost an antithesis to Tsai's usual work; incorporating lavish costuming, more rapid cutting, and quick camera movements, as well as lighting effects.
I agree with Rowland: the musical sequences, while obviously contrasting to a large extent with the surrounding scenes, didn't really strike me as the antithesis of Tsai's usual work. I thought that the fairly static camera and drab architectural surroundings were part of the point of the scenes, creating a dichotomous relationship between the performers and the world of ennui and alienation that they had entered into. Maybe I should watch those scenes again.


The thing is that The Hole was made much before The Wayward Cloud. I like very much this one also because the songs performed are Grace Chang's, very well known 60s star.
I'm not sure why it matters which film came first. My point was that The Wayward Cloud seems like an improvement on The Hole. Are you suggesting that The Wayward Cloud deserves less esteem because it's indebted to Tsai's earlier film? I don't think I agree with that, but your avatar is clouding my mind at the moment, so it's hard to say.

[Sven]

On the other hand, Broadway Danny Rose was quite a pleasant surprise. I enjoyed the film a great deal. Allen is at his best when he's partnered with Gordon Willis. Allen can focus more explicitly on staging and drama while Willis seizes control of the visual mechanics of the film, which allows both the visuals and the drama to play out more naturally overall.


I like that there's a small group of people here who consider Broadway Danny Rose one of Allen's best films, and even one or two who are willing to say it's his very best. Love that film.

Wahoo!

[origami_mustache]

I agree with Rowland: the musical sequences, while obviously contrasting to a large extent with the surrounding scenes, didn't really strike me as the antithesis of Tsai's usual work. I thought that the fairly static camera and drab architectural surroundings were part of the point of the scenes, creating a dichotomous relationship between the performers and the world of ennui and alienation that they had entered into. Maybe I should watch those scenes again.


Well, before this film, Tsai hadn't really shown any versatility as a director (not that I doubted him or he needed to) and his films are based in the tradition of realism. The musical sequences are the first time that I can recall or am aware of that he delves into a world of fantasy or surrealism and strays from the style he is known for. I suppose your point about the juxtaposition of decadence and ennui is valid, but I still see the style incorporated to be virtually the polar opposite of Tsai's usual fair. Although not at the level of Busby Berkeley's musical numbers, these daydream scenes resemble studio quality numbers with professional lighting, dolly movements, glossy costuming, makeup, and choreography.



I'm not sure why it matters which film came first. My point was that The Wayward Cloud seems like an improvement on The Hole. Are you suggesting that The Wayward Cloud deserves less esteem because it's indebted to Tsai's earlier film? I don't think I agree with that, but your avatar is clouding my mind at the moment, so it's hard to say.


It's not uncommon to see directors expand upon themes and concepts from earlier works. In fact this auteurism is partially why such directors are so interesting to explore; especially lesser known works. For Instance: Woody Allen, Bergman, Tarkovsky, Kubrick, yada yada.

[baby doll]

Veronika Voss was a real disappointment, by far the worst Fassbinder I've seen yet. Scenes begin and end arbitrarily, shifting with some of the most atrocious wipes seen in cinematic history. The score never seems to fit the moment and in general the film just plods along to it's inevitably tragic conclusion.

It's a shame the execution is so poor, because the story at the heart of the film seems worth telling. And as usual Fassbinder's camera-work is composed of concise, often compelling imagery. His use of flares and bright lights provides an interesting and unique visual metaphor for the actress's glory days. The film has a few compelling monologues, such as the speech by the prescription doctor regarding the role of society as guardian of it's members, but by and large the film doesn't have that much to say and what it does say it says exceedingly poorly.

Not recommended.

Just to clarify, I didn't think it was a terrible film. Overall it was just mediocre, but very poor compared to the other Fassbinder's I've seen.That's just crazy talk; I can't think of any scenes that begin or end arbitrarily, and the scene in the restaurant, where she gets him to give her the money for a broach so she can return it later and use the money for drugs, is just beautifully developed--especially when she goes to return it, and they only let her because the owner recognizes her from her films (and by giving the owner her autograph, it becomes another kind of exchange; it also illustrates that all she has left of value is her name). And the wipes are great, partly because they're just awesome for their own sake, but also because it adds to the idea that Voss' life has become a version of the films she made in the 30's.

[baby doll]

I like that there's a small group of people here who consider Broadway Danny Rose one of Allen's best films, and even one or two who are willing to say it's his very best. Love that film.Yeah, it's easily his best film after Manhattan--maybe better.

[Sven]

... but also because it adds to the idea that Voss' life has become a version of the films she made in the 30's.

This is an interesting idea, and one I find reinforced by the very enigmatic opening sequence where she is in the theatre, watching a movie of her life with Fassbinder himself. It's an awesome movie!

[Raiders]

Yeah, I was watching part of Broadway Danny Rose the other day, but was unfortunately forced to leave. I was loving it, though.

[Sycophant]

Erik the Viking, even in its new, truncated, 79-minute form is a frustrating and wholly disappointing experience. I have a group of friends who describe the film as great in retrospect, as you think about what happened, even though its dull and unfunny while it's all happening. I can't say that I agree with them, but I do see where they're coming from. There's a lot of stuff in the movie that should have worked. Jokes are funny in theory, they just fall flat on their face in execution. For some reason, Tim Robbins just isn't funny, nor does he seem to do much acting. The entire production budget seems to have gone into all the wrong places. The story is so muddle and poorly-structured that it's barely coherent. My friends tell me, though, that this cut is actually quite superior to the original cuts. So, there's something.

[Sycophant]

In order of preference :
- The Mission (perhaps because it was one of the first I saw when it came out in theater).Word. Rowland, after checking out the Election films, I'd recommend this one. It was my first To film as well and it's pretty amazing.

- Running on KarmaHell yes! This film's a bit insane, but I love it. A very interesting, strangely/supposedly commercial, utterly weird (Andy Lau running around naked in a fat suit, calling himself "Big") rumination on fate, Karma, religion, and morality.

[Rowland]

Loft (2005) 70I honestly cannot imagine... I'll watch the version on KG to give it a second chance, but man. :|

This is by interpreting the movie as genre deconstruction? I know that Cult loved it, but she took it all seriously.

[dreamdead]

Samuel Fuller's The Steel Helmet, though successful on pretty much all fronts, is interesting more so in what it explores in the margins. That is, the examination of race and ethnic inequality (through the African- and Japanese-American), and how Fuller allows his characters to acknowledge and give voice to their experiences with an admittedly racist America. And although the Short Round character veered close to a stereotype in the beginning, Fuller offers him enough quiet moments that he exists as something beyond a caricature. It's a powerful film, and even though the last image (exchanging the helmets) doesn't quite resonate as powerfully as it should, the intertitle over the end ("This story has no end") solidifies the transgrssiveness of this film against typical Hollywood productions of war. It's not perfect, but it's always fascinating.

[Melville]

Well, before this film, Tsai hadn't really shown any versatility as a director (not that I doubted him or he needed to) and his films are based in the tradition of realism. The musical sequences are the first time that I can recall or am aware of that he delves into a world of fantasy or surrealism and strays from the style he is known for. I suppose your point about the juxtaposition of decadence and ennui is valid, but I still see the style incorporated to be virtually the polar opposite of Tsai's usual fair. Although not at the level of Busby Berkeley's musical numbers, these daydream scenes resemble studio quality numbers with professional lighting, dolly movements, glossy costuming, makeup, and choreography.
I don't mean to suggest that the style of those scenes fits snugly into his usual style, which it obviously doesn't. But I think he maintains a very significant portion of his style in these scenes, such that his style comments on the glossy musical ideal and vice versa.


It's not uncommon to see directors expand upon themes and concepts from earlier works. In fact this auteurism is partially why such directors are so interesting to explore; especially lesser known works. For Instance: Woody Allen, Bergman, Tarkovsky, Kubrick, yada yada.
Certainly. And it's definitely worth examining the progression between The Hole and The Wayward Cloud. But that doesn't affect my conclusion that the latter film is more successful than the former; it just colors my conclusion by allowing me to say that Tsai's depiction of his themes in The Hole has become more complex and interesting over time.

[D_Davis]

After being let down by my first Johnny To movie, the merely okay Breaking News, I'm extremely pleased to discover that Exiled is amazing. Now this is what I'm talking about. The doctor's apartment sequence had me so giddy that I was literally giggling from its sheer delirium.

Excellent! I love how To keeps coming up on Match Cut. It makes my constant pimping of his films not seem like a total waste of time.

Make sure to check out The Mission and PTU.

[D_Davis]

Quick takes:

- The Mission - great, great film. On my Top 100
- Running on Karma - totally gonzo. One of the strangest film I've ever seen.
- Election 1&2 - I like part 1, but I do not like part 2. These films contain some awesome music.
- Exiled - this, I think, is To's masterpiece
- Running Out of Time - Pretty good, but the bad make-up at the end almost spoils the tone.
- PTU - great film. Such a strange trip.
- Where a Good Man Goes - awesome. A very dense character study. Lau Ching Wan is amazing in this.
- Throw Down - a very subtle, almost anti-action action film. Dense, and nicely shot.
- A Hero Never Dies - one of the cheesiest of all heroic bloodshed films. Fun, but it gets really silly.
- Fulltime Killer - I used to love this film, but now I can't stand it.
- Breaking News - pretty good. The opeing shoot out is great.
- Fireline (I think this is called Lifeline) - It's the Hong Kong Backdraft.

His wu xia/action comedies :
- Wu yen - pretty good, but way too long
- The Heroic Trio
- Executioners - I don't care for either of these films
- The Enigmatic Case - an interesting addition to the Hong Kong new wave movement, but when compared to Tsui's Butterfly Murders, and Tam's The Sword, it is a disappointment. Too much aimless wandering about.

His romantic comedies (mostly average but I guess entertaining)
- Yesterday Once More
- Loving You
- Turn Left, Turn Right
- Needing You...

I like all of these. Good, harmless fun.

[Sven]

Erik the Viking, even in its new, truncated, 79-minute form is a frustrating and wholly disappointing experience. I have a group of friends who describe the film as great in retrospect, as you think about what happened, even though its dull and unfunny while it's all happening. I can't say that I agree with them, but I do see where they're coming from. There's a lot of stuff in the movie that should have worked. Jokes are funny in theory, they just fall flat on their face in execution. For some reason, Tim Robbins just isn't funny, nor does he seem to do much acting. The entire production budget seems to have gone into all the wrong places. The story is so muddle and poorly-structured that it's barely coherent. My friends tell me, though, that this cut is actually quite superior to the original cuts. So, there's something.

I'm sad I missed the party.

Wait a minute, no I'm not. And you know, these "friends" of yours that made you watch this... they don't actually think it's funny in retrospect. This is a fact I know.

[Raiders]

I honestly cannot imagine... I'll watch the version on KG to give it a second chance, but man. :|

This is by interpreting the movie as genre deconstruction? I know that Cult loved it, but she took it all seriously.

Well, that is the lowest score I have given to any KK film so far. Maybe I am overrating it a bit, but I think it deserves some serious recognition for its wonderful compositions and its anti-horror second half which throws in all genre conventions only to cut them off at the knees. I think Kurosawa is too gifted a filmmaker to be doing this stuff unintentionally (not to mention he considers this a personal project). The scene where he edits together a series of about ten different angles of a girl haunted by a ghost, finally coming face to face and then -- cut to next day when all is fine. I have already mentioned the scene where the guy is "attacked" by a ghost and merely walks right by, obviously thinking deeply about something else.

Ultimately though, I think it works as something of a scattershot, marginally coherent version of Vertigo. The ghost story is pretty much hokum, giving way to the film's tortured romance, which is ultimately resolved in a scene almost straight out of Hitchcock's film, but here seems a little bit of an attempt at ironic posturing by Kurosawa.

There's some undercurrents of the preservation of beauty (it seems little coincidence that our first shot of Reiko is in a vanity mirror only to be followed by the coughing up mud--the ancient instrument through which women, and in our story the mummy, attempted to preserve their image) and how that beauty corrupts men (the mummy's stated purpose is the destruction of men). I think Reiko's early indicators with the mud give way to the ending where she is the force that compels him to unearth the body.

I don't doubt the film is absolutely a mess and borderline incoherent and that it leaves multiple plot lines unexplained. Nonetheless, his craftsmanship, some of the unexpected humor and the intriguing strands left laying around made it an enjoyable and effective film, if wholly underformed.

[balmakboor]

That's just crazy talk; I can't think of any scenes that begin or end arbitrarily, and the scene in the restaurant, where she gets him to give her the money for a broach so she can return it later and use the money for drugs, is just beautifully developed--especially when she goes to return it, and they only let her because the owner recognizes her from her films (and by giving the owner her autograph, it becomes another kind of exchange; it also illustrates that all she has left of value is her name). And the wipes are great, partly because they're just awesome for their own sake, but also because it adds to the idea that Voss' life has become a version of the films she made in the 30's.

I think VV is perhaps Fassbinder's best film. I do need to watch it again before trying to defend it as skillfully as baby doll.

[number8]

Exiled is definitely the best To film I've seen.

Breaking News is awesomely boring. And bad.

[Spinal]

For some reason, Tim Robbins just isn't funny, nor does he seem to do much acting.

I've never thought Robbins was much of an actor, although he can be quite funny. He's a much, much better director. That said, the part where he thinks he is invisible is hilarious, in my opinion.

[Sycophant]

- Election 1&2 - I like part 1, but I do not like part 2. These films contain some awesome music.
Aw. I didn't know you felt that way about part 2. :sad: Put together, I think the films are devastating, near-perfect, and the best thing To's done to date.


- Breaking News - pretty good. The opeing shoot out is great.I'm glad some other people like this one. It's a minor, flawed work, for sure. But I had a blast while watching it, though I was on a total To binge at the time. I'll have to watch it againt o see how it stands up.

[KK2.0]

Didn't found any thread about Across The Universe, maybe it was lost in the transition to this new site.

I enjoyed it more than i expected, the way they used the songs to set the mood and lyrics to express the characters thoughts were fun to watch and moving at times. I like Beatles songs but i'm not a huge fan and still got many of the visual references, like the club Jude goes in the beggining being similar to the one The Beatles first played for instance. Speaking about visuals, they were a huge draw, nearly every scene is meticulously shot and some of the surreal bits were great. On the down side, the story isn't very original and the film would benefit of more cuts, i'd remove Prudence entirely despite liking that song but overall, it's a nice rock musical.

[Rowland]

I think it deserves some serious recognition for its wonderful compositionsI can't really judge this, since I watched it in fullscreen with a murky transfer.
The scene where he edits together a series of about ten different angles of a girl haunted by a ghost, finally coming face to face and then -- cut to next day when all is fine.Are you referring to the sequence with the girl being haunted in the woods? That really felt to me like he was slumming. Very Ju-On-esque.
I have already mentioned the scene where the guy is "attacked" by a ghost and merely walks right by, obviously thinking deeply about something else.I don't remember this. The scene that stands out the most in my mind similar to what you're describing is the mummy-reanimation sequence, which was so awkwardly performed and executed, I honestly didn't know what to make of it. I did get a good chuckle out of it though.
Ultimately though, I think it works as something of a scattershot, marginally coherent version of Vertigo. Hmm, well you already got more out of it than I managed to. Whenever I felt like I was starting to understand what he was going for, everything was thrown into a jumble. I don't think I ultimately managed to glean any coherent plot or themes out of the mess. That said, it probably didn't help that my growing frustration in the last act threw my concentration into a tizzy.

his craftsmanship
I suppose I could make out some of the techniques he usually employs, but this felt a lot sloppier than most of his work.
some of the unexpected humor I mostly recall laughing at how awkwardly some of the performances, writing, and scene executions played out. If I honestly believed that the movie was a big fuck you, then I'd be more willing to give the benefit of the doubt. In that case though, he should have at least made the romance work, when that was probably the most awkward aspect of the movie......... intentionally? :frustrated:

[D_Davis]

Aw. I didn't know you felt that way about part 2. :sad: Put together, I think the films are devastating, near-perfect, and the best thing To's done to date.


In part 1, there is a subtle and dry sense of humor running throughout. I like how To pokes fun at the pageantry of the triads, while also paying it respect; the film walks a very fine line. You've got all of these grown men running around and acting tough for what amounts to a wooden stick. The humor is sly and nuanced. I think part 2 is far too serious. I know it is supposed to be allegory for socioeconomic relationship between Hong Kong and the Mainland, but I just couldn't connect any of the dots. I thought it was too obtuse and distant, there was nothing for me to latch onto.

[D_Davis]

I'm glad some other people like this one. It's a minor, flawed work, for sure. But I had a blast while watching it, though I was on a total To binge at the time. I'll have to watch it againt o see how it stands up.

A big part of my enjoyment of this stems from my appreciation of Lam Suet. He is one of my favorite actors, and he always totally rocks in To's films.

[Rowland]

An interview with Armond White that makes for an interesting and amusing read:

http://bigmediavandal.blogspot.com/2007/12/in-world-that-has-darjeeling-limited.html

[D_Davis]

An interview with Armond White that makes for an interesting and amusing read:

http://bigmediavandal.blogspot.com/2007/12/in-world-that-has-darjeeling-limited.html

I started reading this, pretty good. It's funny, I often times hate White's commentary on specific films, but on the other hand I often find that I like what he has to say about films and criticism in general.

[Eleven]

I'm sure Rowland found the Armond interview from The House Next Door, where I also noticed a Shooting Down Pictures entry (http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/?p=198#more-198) for Il Posto, one of my favorite movies. Then I read his collection of quotes and see my own writing! I left a comment to that effect on Lee's blog there, but I'm still frankly amazed that he was able to find my article at all.

[Watashi]

The Armond White quotes are pretty hilarious. Like his #1:


Does the Wayans family realize that the concept behind Little Man, their latest collective project, makes it a near-classic comedy? Director Keenen Ivory Wayans and his performing brothers Marlon and Shawn are notorious for childish impudence and sarcasm in such hits as Scary Movie and White Chicks. But in Little Man, dealing with their habitual irrepressible immaturity unleashes something poignant. It makes this silly, lightweight film almost deep.

[Li Lili]

I'm not sure why it matters which film came first. My point was that The Wayward Cloud seems like an improvement on The Hole. Are you suggesting that The Wayward Cloud deserves less esteem because it's indebted to Tsai's earlier film? I don't think I agree with that, but your avatar is clouding my mind at the moment, so it's hard to say.
I watched his films in chronological order, so I saw The Hole when it came out and same for The Wayward Clouds and all his films (apart Rebels of the Neon God which I saw a couple of years ago I think), so I see the evolution of his films as he directs them, and I have also the feeling that his films are getting better and better but couldn't exist if he didn't make the previous ones (and also it's quite interesting to notice the evolution of Lee Kang-sheng in his films). The Wayward Clouds was made just after Good Bye, Dragon Inn, which was a turning point in his filmography as it was the most minimalist and radical film in its formal aspect.
But while The Hole was in a rainy, humid and grim atmosphere with greenish and blue tones, The Wayward Clouds was "brighter", colourful and "dry".
Again my avatar is taken from Help me Eros by Lee Kang-sheng, it's Yin Shin, the leading actress, a very charming lady in real life, and very humble too.

[Watashi]

I couldn't even make it through 30 minutes of Welcome to the Dollhouse. Yeah... not my type of film at all.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I couldn't even make it through 30 minutes of Welcome to the Dollhouse. Yeah... not my type of film at all.
I watched this in a course once, I felt like walking out a few times. I don't think it's a bad film, but I think we have a simliar aesthetic and it's really not my type of film either.

[Watashi]

I watched this in a course once, I felt like walking out a few times. I don't think it's a bad film, but I think we have a similar aesthetic and it's really not my type of film either.

I'm just wondering if there is a filmmaker out there can capture the real essence of high school naturally and not this exaggerated fairy tale world we have here. Through my entire junior high/high school life, I never once witnessed or was a part of any act of cruelty on the level that was thrown upon Dawn. It's just not like that. If someone made a film on what high school was really like, it would be rather boring.

[Li Lili]

Hell yes! This film's a bit insane, but I love it. A very interesting, strangely/supposedly commercial, utterly weird (Andy Lau running around naked in a fat suit, calling himself "Big") rumination on fate, Karma, religion, and morality.I watched it several times, the opening sequence is so great, the music goes perfect and it's so.... so... well I love it :)
Pity Cecilia Cheung didn't play in more of his films. Ah yeah Andy Lau in this suit is so funny

[Philosophe_rouge]

I'm just wondering if there is a filmmaker out there can capture the real essence of high school naturally and not this exaggerated fairy tale world we have here. Through my entire junior high/high school life, I never once witnessed or was a part of any act of cruelty thrown upon Dawn. It's just not like that. If someone made a film what high school was really like, it would be rather boring.
I see what you mean, and the film doesn't ressemble my experience in the least. Sometimes the atmosophere comes close to capturing the anxiety though, and it's very nerve wracking because of it. I lived in a bubble though, so I rarely feel high school films capture my experience at all.

[Sycophant]

An interview with Armond White that makes for an interesting and amusing read:

http://bigmediavandal.blogspot.com/2007/12/in-world-that-has-darjeeling-limited.htmlI just about pulled my hair out by the roots in White's dismissal of digital and acceptance of film as bourgeouis medium, in that he has a certain point but was completley missing Steven Boone's point.

A very entertaining interview, though, that snuck into debate territory. I think White's the sort of person I'd like to meet once, though he'd surely disagree with and disparage most everything I'd have to say.

[Boner M]

I'm just wondering if there is a filmmaker out there can capture the real essence of high school naturally and not this exaggerated fairy tale world we have here. Through my entire junior high/high school life, I never once witnessed or was a part of any act of cruelty on the level that was thrown upon Dawn. It's just not like that. If someone made a film on what high school was really like, it would be rather boring.
Pump up the Volume!!!

WttD sucks. I generally find Solondz to be part of the crowd of indie filmmakers who tries to capture some truth about human behaviour/interaction by going in the exact opposite direction of the Hollywood mode, thereby creating something equally false.

That said, I found Happiness pretty good, and Storytelling was reasonably interesting.

[ledfloyd]

If someone made a film on what high school was really like, it would be rather boring.
Dazed & Confused is the film I've seen that most closely resembles high school for me.

[Li Lili]

Quick takes:

- The Mission - great, great film. On my Top 100
- Running on Karma - totally gonzo. One of the strangest film I've ever seen.
- Election 1&2 - I like part 1, but I do not like part 2. These films contain some awesome music.
- Exiled - this, I think, is To's masterpiece
- Running Out of Time - Pretty good, but the bad make-up at the end almost spoils the tone.
- PTU - great film. Such a strange trip.
- Where a Good Man Goes - awesome. A very dense character study. Lau Ching Wan is amazing in this.
- Throw Down - a very subtle, almost anti-action action film. Dense, and nicely shot.
- A Hero Never Dies - one of the cheesiest of all heroic bloodshed films. Fun, but it gets really silly.
- Fulltime Killer - I used to love this film, but now I can't stand it.
- Breaking News - pretty good. The opeing shoot out is great.
- Fireline (I think this is called Lifeline) - It's the Hong Kong Backdraft.
Yes, it must be.
It's hard to rank his films but up to Exiled, I think, it's my first batch of preference. Then from Running out of Time (I like some sequences very much) to Throw Down. Then A Hero Never Dies up to Lifeline. I must admit that I vaguely remember them, apart Fulltime Killer (because I saw it twice, including on in a cinema and I usually remember more a film I see in a cinema) and Breaking News (also seen at the cinema when it came out and again afterwards on dvd).


His wu xia/action comedies :
- Wu yen - pretty good, but way too long
- The Heroic Trio
- Executioners - I don't care for either of these films
- The Enigmatic Case - an interesting addition to the Hong Kong new wave movement, but when compared to Tsui's Butterfly Murders, and Tam's The Sword, it is a disappointment. Too much aimless wandering about.
I forgot Justice my Foot with Stephen Chow and Anita Mui and Mad Monk also with Stephen Chow. I prefered them two than the 4 above (so....).


His romantic comedies (mostly average but I guess entertaining)
- Yesterday Once More
- Loving You
- Turn Left, Turn Right
- Needing You...

I like all of these. Good, harmless fun.
Yes, I can handle them more than I used to.

[Li Lili]

So, I watched Where the Truth Lies last night and I don't know but I expected something much better and far more appealing for an Atom Egoyan film!
I have vague memories of Exotica, Family Viewing, The Adjuster, even The Sweet Hereafter, films I saw years ago (argh!!! I'd rather not count!) that astonished me and moved me and watching this one was 'what happened ?'.

[D_Davis]

I forgot Justice my Foot with Stephen Chow and Anita Mui and Mad Monk also with Stephen Chow. I prefered them two than the 4 above (so....).


I always forget about Mad Monk as well, and The Barefooted Kid, two Shaw Brothers films that To made! I like both of these.

It is strange to think of To as a Shaw Brothers director.

[DavidSeven]

I didn't know there was such an anti-Welcome to the Dollhouse contingent here. That's a bit odd. Solondz is a director I like more in theory than in practice, but I've still found all of his films worthwhile. This one is no exception.

[Qrazy]

That's just crazy talk; I can't think of any scenes that begin or end arbitrarily, and the scene in the restaurant, where she gets him to give her the money for a broach so she can return it later and use the money for drugs, is just beautifully developed--especially when she goes to return it, and they only let her because the owner recognizes her from her films (and by giving the owner her autograph, it becomes another kind of exchange; it also illustrates that all she has left of value is her name). And the wipes are great, partly because they're just awesome for their own sake, but also because it adds to the idea that Voss' life has become a version of the films she made in the 30's.

I agree that scene worked well. I just don't think the film worked in it's entirety.

I don't remember seeing this many terrible wipes in any of the good films I've seen from the 30's.

[Qrazy]

I have little appreciation for Solondz.

[Qrazy]

Soori, do you still have that website of Fassbinder's favorite's of his own work? I'd be interested to see it again.

[balmakboor]

Soori, do you still have that website of Fassbinder's favorite's of his own work? I'd be interested to see it again.

http://jclarkmedia.com/fassbinder/index.html#top10

Keep in mind though that he made the list before BA.

[D_Davis]

Raiders,

I think your score for -- Muriel's Wedding (1994) 68 -- is way too low. Although it is more positive than negative, so that's good.

I toyed with putting this on my Top 100, and in retrospect it probably should have been included. An oversight that will be corrected during my next revision.

[jesse]

I couldn't even make it through 30 minutes of Welcome to the Dollhouse. Yeah... not my type of film at all. I made it through because I love Heather Matarazzo. Otherwise, I can't remember a redeeming thing about it.

It's not likely I'll ever watch another Solondz film.

[origami_mustache]

I didn't know there was such an anti-Welcome to the Dollhouse contingent here. That's a bit odd. Solondz is a director I like more in theory than in practice, but I've still found all of his films worthwhile. This one is no exception.

It's been a while since I've seen a Solondz film, but it seemed to me Welcome to the Dollhouse is his best film. I found Happiness to be be interesting as well, while Storytelling and Palindromes were less than stellar.

[baby doll]

I agree that scene worked well. I just don't think the film worked in it's entirety.

I don't remember seeing this many terrible wipes in any of the good films I've seen from the 30's.But that's the point, that she didn't make good films. She's a forgotten, Nazi-era actress. Can there be that many Ufa productions made between 1933 and 1945 that are worth seeing? And how are the wipes terrible? (Personally, I think they're fun.)

[Spinal]

1. Palindromes ****
2. Welcome to the Dollhouse ****
3. Happiness ****
4. Storytelling ***

[Rowland]

I made it through because I love Heather Matarazzo.
She's in it, huh? It was a shame watching her in Hostel II earlier this year.

[Boner M]

1. Palindromes ****
2. Welcome to the Dollhouse ****
I never realised our forum had a censor.

[eternity]

I never realised our forum had a censor.Rep.

[Spinal]

Rep.

You should expect more from your Boner. That was not a solid effort.

Palindromes is probably the least loved film in my top 100. I found the critical reaction to that one somewhat mystifying. I think it's utterly brilliant and moving.

[Rowland]

You should expect more from your Boner. That was not a solid effort.Yeah, that was a notably limp witticism by his usually stiff standards.

[Mysterious Dude]

You guys are crazy. That joke is positively ejaculating with creativity.

Okay, I'm not subtle.

*waits for negative rep*

[Qrazy]

But that's the point, that she didn't make good films. She's a forgotten, Nazi-era actress. Can there be that many Ufa productions made between 1933 and 1945 that are worth seeing? And how are the wipes terrible? (Personally, I think they're fun.)

I find it's usually too frustrating to debate aesthetic disagreements so I vote we just agree to disagree on the wipes... but in terms of how they affect dramatic flow, I find they connote a certain narrative continuity and so when there's a complete shift of energy and focus, tying two scenes together with a wipe, undercuts the primary dramatic purpose behind the juxtaposition of the two scenes in the first place.

My understanding from the film was that she used to be a big at least marginally talented star, but that her addiction as well as political difficulties, destroyed that for her. If she had such name recognition she must have been in at least a couple worthwhile pictures, WIPELESS pictures!!!

[Sven]

An interview with Armond White that makes for an interesting and amusing read:

http://bigmediavandal.blogspot.com/2007/12/in-world-that-has-darjeeling-limited.html

This exchange is just awesome:


SB: We're absolutely on the same page there. But Michael Bay, what that guy has is-- there's something to him when it comes down to certain lyric interludes or whatever. He's invested in every shot in a similar sense that you say Wes Anderson is.

AW: Well, in that sense he's more of an artist than Ridley Scott. Ridley Scott's a hack as well. The television visual sense. That's why Blade Runner doesn't hold up.

SB: Oooh.

AW: Of course. It's television. It was impressive for a moment, like, uh, June of 1982 to July of 1983. Then everybody copied. There's nothing in Blade Runner now that's impressive. Nothing.

SB: (staring in disbelief)

AW: Easily imitated, cuz Ridley Scott's a hack!

SB: The cinematography, the production design.

AW: Art direction, not film direction.

SB: You mean all that shining spotlights through the slats, the rain--

AW: Yeah, its garbage now.

SB: Wow.

AW: He's a hack. He's a gifted hack, in the sense that he does have an eye for beautiful things-- no, not beautiful, pretty things. Trained in television. Michael Bay has surpassed him.

[Sven]

I luvs the Armond. That interview is great!

[Raiders]

I love Armond White because he makes it so easy for me. I always want to make fun of him, and then I read what he has said, quote it, and realize my work is done.

[Eleven]

I'm trying to decide whether the "Oooh" or the "(staring in disbelief)" is the single best moment.

[Sven]

I love Armond White because he makes it so easy for me. I always want to make fun of him, and then I read what he has said, quote it, and realize my work is done.

I find this attitude to be a great example of the old "hater using the hated's purported tactics" double standard. If you can't see any wisdom in White, then you are blind or ignorant. In your case, it would have to be a willing ignorance, because I know you and him are on the same page more often than you'd like to think.

[Spinal]

Well, I agree with him on Ridley Scott at least.

[Raiders]

I find this attitude to be a great example of the old "hater using the hated's purported tactics" double standard. If you can't see any wisdom in White, then you are blind or ignorant. In your case, it would have to be a willing ignorance, because I know you and him are on the same page more often than you'd like to think.

Should I have put a smiley in my post?

:|

[lovejuice]

after so many garbages, i sorta forget how good john woo used to be during his prime. just re-watched bullet in the head. love it. the movie combines the action element with the depiction of war cruelty. this is among a few cases that violent on film is successfully employed to send out anti-violent message.

[Sven]

Should I have put a smiley in my post?

:|

Probably. I know you've only disparaged him in the past.

[Raiders]

Probably. I know you've only disparaged him in the past.

I think I have disparaged individual reviews or statements more than the man himself. I love his passion for cinema. I just think too often he gets caught up in the peripherals and for my personal interest in criticism, he's not really my cup of tea. But when we do agree, I find much usefulness in his thoughts.

[Sven]

I think I have disparaged individual reviews or statements more than the man himself. I love his passion for cinema. I just think too often he gets caught up in the peripherals and for my personal interest in criticism, he's not really my cup of tea. But when we do agree, I find much usefulness in his thoughts.

Gotcha. Cool! I guess I find the periphery much more interesting (and important) than most.

[Qrazy]

I read about half the interview and got tired of it because the guy seems like a total asshole.

[Qrazy]

http://jclarkmedia.com/fassbinder/index.html#top10

Keep in mind though that he made the list before BA.

Thank ya.

[number8]

That interview is great. White is a certified nutjob because of his opinions, but I have to admit I kind of admire how he takes everything so matter-of-factly serious and doesn't care if he's reaching for some of the stuff he pulls out of a movie (I still shake my head at the American politics and cultural commentary that he got out of Hot Fuzz). It's nice, at least, to see how he still maintains that zeal even candidly and is not just doing it to be anti-populist.

[Qrazy]

Cria Cuervos was quite a good little film. Nothing about it particularly blew me away, but the emotions felt genuine... and now I have 'porque te vas' stuck in my head.

[transmogrifier]

Candyfloss on a bitter, bitter stick, Brewster McCloud is a bat-shit insane fantasy/cop drama spoof, a barrage of random asides corraled into a barely-there narrative that serves to dissect our outward reliance on order and structure and underlying attraction to the abnormal and unusual. Altman delivers one of his shaggiest tales, but spikes it with some razor-sharp images (such as Michael Murphy's final scene, a breath-taking, hilarious reveal) and pure cynicism, which actually ends up giving the film a bit of ballast and prevents it from floating away. The final scene is at once crushingly obvious and crushing.

Also, first there was nothing. Then there was Shelley Duvall's eyes.

[Qrazy]

Candyfloss on a bitter, bitter stick, Brewster McCloud is a bat-shit insane fantasy/cop drama spoof, a barrage of random asides corraled into a barely-there narrative that serves to dissect our outward reliance on order and structure and underlying attraction to the abnormal and unusual. Altman delivers one of his shaggiest tales, but spikes it with some razor-sharp images (such as Michael Murphy's final scene, a breath-taking, hilarious reveal) and pure cynicism, which actually ends up giving the film a bit of ballast and prevents it from floating away. The final scene is at once crushingly obvious and crushing.

Also, first there was nothing. Then there was Shelley Duvall's eyes.

I like when the cop kills himself because his legs are shot. Hilarious.

[transmogrifier]

I like when the cop kills himself because his legs are shot. Hilarious.


Yeah, that's the shot I was referring to. We see the puff of smoke from the car, and the camera keeps on pulling back........

[Winston*]

He has returned! Boner can rest at ease.


Also, Meh-owulf? Pfft. More like Hilari-owulf. Get it? Y'know...because this movie is really funny.
*is a wordplay master*

[Qrazy]

Yeah, that's the shot I was referring to. We see the puff of smoke from the car, and the camera keeps on pulling back........

Ah yeah, I misread and thought you meant Brewster's final moments. Woopsy.

[transmogrifier]

He has returned! Boner can rest at ease.


Seems to me that you are letting boner off too easily.

[number8]

I'd never let boner get off so easily. I'd milk boner for all his worth.

[Qrazy]

Boner this, boner that. Let's be a bit more pro zac_efron I say. Credit where credit is blew.

[Bosco B Thug]

Candyfloss on a bitter, bitter stick, Brewster McCloud is a bat-shit insane fantasy/cop drama spoof, a barrage of random asides corraled into a barely-there narrative that serves to dissect our outward reliance on order and structure and underlying attraction to the abnormal and unusual. Altman delivers one of his shaggiest tales, but spikes it with some razor-sharp images (such as Michael Murphy's final scene, a breath-taking, hilarious reveal) and pure cynicism, which actually ends up giving the film a bit of ballast and prevents it from floating away. The final scene is at once crushingly obvious and crushing.

Also, first there was nothing. Then there was Shelley Duvall's eyes. I want to see this. IMDb board sleuthing says there'll be a 2008 DVD.

Don't Look Now is pretty brilliant, I don't know why I missed that on my first viewing. Donald Sutherland and Julie Christie (who is effin gorgeous) turn in very charismatic performances, and I'm suddenly seeing - banalities now, for want of brevity (or just all I can muster) - incredibly nuanced, multi-layered existential subtext. Christie creates an troublingly flesh-and-blood character - an attractive, light-hearted woman who unfortunately has the curse of a gentle, unaggressive personality and thus gets buried in all the neurotics that such a gentle person with no mental capacity for deep, angry mental demons and fears ends up with - such as having to take pills to "level her out," such an inherently existential notion by itself! Sutherland's the guy with the capacity for deep thoughts and cynicism. Sex, ceremony, and religion interweave in the film as pragmatic opiates for the suppression of sentiments. When Sutherland indulges in sentiments, look where it gets him!

Anyway, this was a pleasant surprise of a re-watch, sure to become a favorite.

[Qrazy]

I want to see this. IMDb board sleuthing says there'll be a 2008 DVD.

Anyway, this was a pleasant surprise of a re-watch, sure to become a favorite.

Yeah, Roeg is all about subtext. Can't say I find his text particularly engaging but his nuanced aesthetic makes me keep coming back to his films. The Man who Fell to Earth is still absolute dog shit however.

[Boner M]

I went to see The Assassination of Jesse James again, and I dunno... the narration bugged me a little more this time even though I understand it's purpose and still think it's quite subversive, ditto for the stereoscope shots, and the score felt more monotonous; kinda like a warmed-over version of Cave and Ellis' far superior one to The Proposition. I guess my main complaint is that it all feels a little too calculated, and so obsessed with the idea of demystification that it loses a much needed sense of mystery itself. Still a very fine film, but the performances and Deakins are the true auteurs here; Dominik's work is impressive and I look forward to what he has next, but he still has yet to truly find his groove. Baby steps, baby steps...

[Boner M]

And yay for trans finally appearing at my behest + another cavalcade of boner puns. Me me me.

[Sven]

Trans, detailed reaction to Beyond Therapy plzkthx.

[Qrazy]

Soldier of Orange was quite good. It's a pity Verhoeven ever left the Netherlands, something tells me his filmography could have been superb.

[D_Davis]

Soldier of Orange was quite good. It's a pity Verhoeven ever left the Netherlands, something tells me his filmography could have been superb.

Without Robocop and Starship Troopers though, it wouldn't be as good.

I need to see Soldier of Orange.

[Sycophant]

Pang Ho-Cheung's Exodus wants to be admired and provoke thought more than it wants to entertain, which is an interesting choice from a director who, just 5 or 6 years ago, brought us such ridiculously bombastic fare as You Shoot, I Shoot and Men Suddenly in Black and will bring us the crazy-looking Trivial Matters for his second 2007 film. Exodus carries a similarly ridiculous premise, spawned from the director's teenage paranoia about women who travel to the bathroom in packs. It plays out without a lot of suspense, payoff, action, or much of anything else, yet when thought through, there's a lot actually going on. This is the formal conceit of the film, consisting almost entirely of long takes and some of the most gorgeous cinematography I've seen out of Hong Kong (though parts of it look like an IKEA commercial). It's not somewhere I'd recommend starting in Pang's filmography, but it's certainly worth a look.

The film may actuallyl have my favorite ending of 2007.

[Rowland]

The Trouble With Harry is funnier than I expected, given its reputation. I was expecting something thoroughly arid, but it turns out that any aridity is merely the comic tone that Hitchcock was obviously playing with. All in all, an amusing black comedy.

[Philosophe_rouge]

The Trouble With Harry is funnier than I expected, given its reputation. I was expecting something thoroughly arid, but it turns out that any aridity is merely the comic tone that Hitchcock was obviously playing with. All in all, an amusing black comedy.

I was surprised by this as well, the word of mouth is really quite terrible, and I expected it to be a real bore. Overall I thought it was quite funny, and all around enjoyable. Shirley Maclaine is also adorable.

[Sycophant]

I was surprised by this as well, the word of mouth is really quite terrible, and I expected it to be a real bore. Overall I thought it was quite funny, and all around enjoyable. Shirley Maclaine is also adorable.

Oh, wow. The word of mouth on this is terrible? That's really surprising to me. This is one of the films that, strangely enough, actually started getting me to think about film seven or eight years ago. It's got a special place for me, but it's also a solid, quality film.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Oh, wow. The word of mouth on this is terrible? That's really surprising to me. This is one of the films that, strangely enough, actually started getting me to think about film seven or eight years ago. It's got a special place for me, but it's also a solid, quality film.
I always get called out on word of mouth things here, I obviously know very strange people because they're always so out of tune with the Match-cut crowd. Cool to hear about it being one of the films that ignited your interest in film, I always find it interesting what films made people start becoming interested in film, at least beyond being pure, mindless entertainment.

[Sycophant]

Cool to hear about it being one of the films that ignited your interest in film, I always find it interesting what films made people start becoming interested in film, at least beyond being pure, mindless entertainment.It was one of the first films where I really figured out that tone and the way things are shot have as much or more to do with a film's effect than its simple storyline. It happened at kind of a late date, but was still quite formative.

[Rowland]

I always get called out on word of mouth things here, I obviously know very strange people because they're always so out of tune with the Match-cut crowd.No, you are right that the movie's reputation isn't exactly sterling. Besides, I don't know if Sycophant and I typify how it is generally perceived around here either.

[MadMan]

The Trouble With Harry is funnier than I expected, given its reputation. I was expecting something thoroughly arid, but it turns out that any aridity is merely the comic tone that Hitchcock was obviously playing with. All in all, an amusing black comedy.I love that film. Its not one of his best pictures, but it really is a delightful, funny and entertaining dark comedy. And Shirely McClaine is quite good in it. I caught it back when AMC was showing their week of Hitchcock films and I'm glad I saw it. A hidden gem indeed, one that I want to revisit sometime.

[Sycophant]

No, you are right that the movie's reputation isn't exactly sterling. Besides, I don't know if Sycophant and I typify how it is generally perceived around here either.Yeah. I'd say it's more true that I'm constantly wrong about the popular perception of things.

[balmakboor]

I have a certain fondness for The Trouble With Harry too. It was something my aunt introduced me to. It was her favorite film. She was a Hitchcock fan and had turned me into one by taking me to see Family Plot in theaters during its first run. When she saw how much I enjoyed that one -- and once home video came around -- she took pleasure in exposing me to as many Hitchcocks as possible.

[jesse]

Cria Cuervos was quite a good little film. Nothing about it particularly blew me away, but the emotions felt genuine... and now I have 'porque te vas' stuck in my head. I love Jeanette. I moved the film up my queue when I found out the song is in the film.

[transmogrifier]

Trans, detailed reaction to Beyond Therapy plzkthx.

A terrible screenplay, more or less, that seems to assume that "hey, therapists are crazier than their patients!" and "..though their patients ARE pretty crazy" are insight enough to drive an entire film. Basically, it's a string of mostly unfunny non-sequiturs coming from a series of poorly sketched characters with Altman pretty much sleep-walking through the direction (for example, he only ever films the therapists offices from one angle - a wide shot from just outside the window - which might be saying something, I guess, but it's lost in the barrage of puerile comments wrapped around each other like some unholy DNA molecule that, when transcribed, becomes a lazy playwrite with the inability to separate genuine human interaction from writerly bullshit.

[transmogrifier]

And yay for trans finally appearing at my behest + another cavalcade of boner puns. Me me me.

What can I say, I'm forever at the behest of boner.

[Watashi]

Trans is here.

[Spinal]

Durang's writing style and Altman's directorial style are a match made in hell. Durang writes broad farces and the understatement Altman uses just doesn't work at all. I don't think the play is genius or anything, but it can be funny when performed in a particular way. This was not the way.

[Sycophant]

What can I say, I'm forever at the behest of boner.

Hey! You liked four of the last five films you watched! Awesome!

[DavidSeven]

And yay for trans finally appearing at my behest + another cavalcade of boner puns. Me me me.

It's all you. You can't have a tranny without a boner.

[transmogrifier]

Trans is here.

Tis I.

You'll be pleased to know, I have the following mission statement:

1. No lists (except this one)
2. No baiting Watashi for no good reason

[transmogrifier]

Hey! You liked four of the last five films you watched! Awesome!

It happens.

[Morris Schæffer]

I just saw Little Miss Sunshine again just now. What a wonderful little movie. That finale is just great. I just wanna get up from the couch and yell "THAT'S RIGHT!! FUCK YOU ALL!!"

Awesome Mychael Danna score as well.

[lovejuice]

I just saw Little Miss Sunshine again just now. What a wonderful little movie. That finale is just great. I just wanna get up from the couch and yell "THAT'S RIGHT!! FUCK YOU ALL!!"

Awesome Mychael Danna score as well.

i support your statement here. it's really a good movie that's being undeservedly railed against. perhaps if i was ebert or someone, i'd call it the last american indy.

[Rowland]

perhaps if i was ebert or someone, i'd call it the last american indy.Wait... what?

[transmogrifier]

I just saw Little Miss Sunshine again just now. What a wonderful little movie. That finale is just great. I just wanna get up from the couch and yell "THAT'S RIGHT!! FUCK YOU ALL!!"

Awesome Mychael Danna score as well.

Yeah, it's not as bad as some would have you believe - I always find it amusing that there is such a backlash by cinephiles against anything branded indie-quirk (it seems you can only be afforded the luxury of dysfunctional families if you go deep and dark, or cynical and sarcastic) - it does lack sophistication behind the camera (it's plain and dull, with no inherent meaning or outlook), the body-out-of-the-hospital bit is ridiculous and the jokes could be funnier.

[lovejuice]

Wait... what?

i actually say it in a joking manner. sorta like the last action hero. :P

although a case, i believe, can be made that any indy road movies made after LTS -- reading Wristcutters, Eagle vs. Shark -- is in some way inspired to be the next LTS, and thus is not truely indy in its spirit.

i'm not trying to make sense, really. :P

[origami_mustache]

Flowers of Shanghai (Hsiao-hsien Hou, 1998)

http://www.sensesofcinema.com/images/04/33/flowers_shanghai.jpg


Flowers of Shanghai is an ensemble period piece taking place in the opulent brothels, referred to as flower houses, in late 19th century China. Hou's meticulous style and pacing has never been more appropriate, as the stunning mise en scéne, cinematography, fade in/out editing transitions, music, long master shots, and drifting camera moves all mesh together perfectly to evoke a seductive mood. Hou's direction excellently balances the screen time of the many characters, alternating between the group scenes where men gamble and drink, and more intimate scenes between the courtesans and the mistresses. The characters try to decipher the differences between love, lust, hypocrisy, manipulation, and greed. The claustrophobic nature of the film is also worth noting as the film consists of only interior shots. Despite the beauty of the brothels they are much like a prison in many regards. The indentured servants are owned and bound financially to the brothel, while the gentleman callers are contractually obligated to their flower girls, and of course no one is free from the vice of opium.

[Ezee E]

Wow, Shoah is some pretty heavy stuff. I don't know if I can take four more discs of it. It nearly had me in tears.

[Raiders]

Wow, Shoah is some pretty heavy stuff. I don't know if I can take four more discs of it. It nearly had me in tears.

Wuss.

[Boner M]

Yeah, it's not as bad as some would have you believe - I always find it amusing that there is such a backlash by cinephiles against anything branded indie-quirk (it seems you can only be afforded the luxury of dysfunctional families if you go deep and dark, or cynical and sarcastic) - it does lack sophistication behind the camera (it's plain and dull, with no inherent meaning or outlook), the body-out-of-the-hospital bit is ridiculous and the jokes could be funnier.
Weird post.

[Li Lili]

Pang Ho-Cheung's Exodus wants to be admired and provoke thought more than it wants to entertain, which is an interesting choice from a director who, just 5 or 6 years ago, brought us such ridiculously bombastic fare as You Shoot, I Shoot and Men Suddenly in Black and will bring us the crazy-looking Trivial Matters for his second 2007 film. Exodus carries a similarly ridiculous premise, spawned from the director's teenage paranoia about women who travel to the bathroom in packs. It plays out without a lot of suspense, payoff, action, or much of anything else, yet when thought through, there's a lot actually going on. This is the formal conceit of the film, consisting almost entirely of long takes and some of the most gorgeous cinematography I've seen out of Hong Kong (though parts of it look like an IKEA commercial). It's not somewhere I'd recommend starting in Pang's filmography, but it's certainly worth a look.

The film may actuallyl have my favorite ending of 2007.
Glad you saw it and like it, I agree the cinematography was neat and rich, actually Isabella, the cinematography was kind of the same (great warm colours, the set, the angle of shooting and the smooth camera movements, although if I recall there weren't many... all this underlined even more the atmosphere of Macau). Exodus is colder (colours and the set which kept just the minimal things). I, personally, prefered Isabella (adding also great performance especially from Chapman To), but those 2 films are very different from You Shoot, I Shoot, which didn't do much to me.
I liked the opening in Exodus, and yes, the ending was good too.

[Li Lili]

Flowers of Shanghai
I read the book, if I recall well, the film is a bit different, but the tone and atmosphere are the same.

[Derek]

Weird post.

Glad I'm not the only one to think so. I'm not sure what's amusing about people disliking a film that he's admitting is plain, dull, and not that funny.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I just saw Little Miss Sunshine again just now. What a wonderful little movie. That finale is just great. I just wanna get up from the couch and yell "THAT'S RIGHT!! FUCK YOU ALL!!"

Awesome Mychael Danna score as well.
I enjoyed it very much too, the final scenes especially always have me laughing like a loonie.

[Rowland]

Flowers of Shanghai (Hsiao-hsien Hou, 1998) I didn't like this. I suppose you can reasonably argue that it was appropriate for the movie to drift along at a constant lull for the entire running time, but it wasn't interesting to watch. It's my least favorite movie I've seen by Hou.

[origami_mustache]

Glad I'm not the only one to think so. I'm not sure what's amusing about people disliking a film that he's admitting is plain, dull, and not that funny.

It's neither a horrible nor a great film, but the movie at least has a decent message about the ills of superficiality, family bonding, and the pressures parents, society, and the media put on children, although this isn't anything innovative.

[number8]

I don't understand what's great about LMS' finale. The whole beauty pageant bit is awful. When the family went up to the stage with her, I nearly turned the damn movie off, but other people were watching it with me.

[transmogrifier]

Glad I'm not the only one to think so. I'm not sure what's amusing about people disliking a film that he's admitting is plain, dull, and not that funny.

The use of the camera is plain and dull, but I thought the character interaction and acting was engaging. It certainly doesn't deserve its reputation around here as some sort of cinematic anti-Christ.

I was just trying to be balanced, yo. Part of my new mission statement.

[Sycophant]

The end of the beauty pageant also really bothered me, as did the hopsital sequence. Otherwise, I actually liked it, though it never really gets anywhere near spectacular.

[origami_mustache]

I didn't like this. I suppose you can reasonably argue that it was appropriate for the movie to drift along at a constant lull for the entire running time, but it wasn't interesting to watch. It's my least favorite movie I've seen by Hou.

Aside from the aesthetics I found the characters and their situations to be pretty fascinating and more intricate than usually given credit for. I suppose you could argue the characters are underdeveloped, but to me this film is much more about the mood. It's a story about the brothels themselves and the tragedies and triumphs of the women confined to them.

[Rowland]

Aside from the aesthetics I found the characters and their situations to be pretty fascinating and more intricate than usually given credit for. I suppose you could argue the characters are underdeveloped, but to me this film is much more about the mood. It's a story about the brothels themselves and the tragedies and triumphs of the women confined to them.The characters and their situations were plenty intricate, too much so in fact, given that it was extremely difficult to keep track of who was who, and whatever narrative there was existed almost entirely in the periphery, imparted primarily through fleeting gossip. As for the mood... yeah, it's just one constant, virtually unwavering mood for two hours. I took all of this to be an intended approach, but it still made the movie something of a chore to sit through.

[Sven]

A terrible screenplay, more or less, that seems to assume that "hey, therapists are crazier than their patients!" and "..though their patients ARE pretty crazy" are insight enough to drive an entire film. Basically, it's a string of mostly unfunny non-sequiturs coming from a series of poorly sketched characters with Altman pretty much sleep-walking through the direction (for example, he only ever films the therapists offices from one angle - a wide shot from just outside the window - which might be saying something, I guess, but it's lost in the barrage of puerile comments wrapped around each other like some unholy DNA molecule that, when transcribed, becomes a lazy playwrite with the inability to separate genuine human interaction from writerly bullshit.

I love the movie, but I'd say good call.

I appreciate your mission statement. I, too, was going to not participate in listifying action, but was caught up in a limbo that I'm currently working my way out of.

[origami_mustache]

The characters and their situations were plenty intricate, too much so in fact, given that it was extremely difficult to keep track of who was who, and whatever narrative there was existed almost entirely in the periphery, imparted primarily through fleeting gossip. As for the mood... yeah, it's just one constant, virtually unwavering mood for two hours. I took all of this to be an intended approach, but it still made the movie something of a chore to sit through.

I can understand this perspective. It's certainly not for everyone, and sometimes an acquired taste. I personally enjoy subtlety and dedramatization in general as it is based more in reality and I find it more relatable.

[Rowland]

I can understand this perspective. It's certainly not for everyone, and sometimes an acquired taste. I personally enjoy subtlety and dedramatization in general as it is based more in reality and I find it more relatable.I can enjoy subtlety as well. Still, unless you're an opium addict, I'm not sure how you could relate to this movie's colorless somnambulance.

[origami_mustache]

I can enjoy subtlety as well. Still, unless you're an opium addict, I'm not sure how you could relate to this movie's colorless somnambulance.

If eliminating ennui by gambling, drinking, and sex is not engaging and relatable enough the relationships and interactions between the patrons and flower girls convey universally relevant and identifiable human emotions.

[soitgoes...]

I too just watched To's Exiled last night, and I have to say it was the most fun I've had watching a film since I saw Kiss Kiss Bang Bang a number of months ago. I actually watched the first third or so again immediately after finishing it... at 3AM. Such awesome action sequences. There were a couple little things that bothered me, but all in all a near perfect film.

[Philosophe_rouge]

The Browning Version (1951) exceeded all my expectations, which where fairly high in the first place. A first rate character study of a hated school teacher who comes to realise his own failures as a teacher, husband and a human being. Michael Redgrave delivers one of the best performances I've ever seen, and the careful direction by Asquith helps maintain the subtlety of his evolution and relationships. The film is far more than just an actor's film though, and it reveals so much about perceptions and human nature. It's a film I hardly see getting any mention... anywhere, and it's a damn shame. I don't think I am doing the film justice, or if I can give it enough praise. Do yourself a favour and see it if you haven't already.

[Rowland]

If eliminating ennui by gambling, drinking, and sex is not engaging and relatable enough the relationships and interactions between the patrons and flower girls convey universally relevant and identifiable human emotions.I was mostly referring to the aesthetic, which does absolutely nothing to bring the movie to cinematic life. You can argue that it reflects the ennui and insularity in the story, but this still makes for little more than a boring Art-with-a-capital-A project. I'd rather watch Goodbye South, Goodbye again any day.

[Watashi]

Everyone Says I Love You is middle-tier Woody. It's goofy, and surprisingly soft for Woody, even if he did get carried away at the end there. The non-musical aspects work best (a lot of the songs are just not performed well) and I was surprised at the cast of Ed Norton and Natalie Portman both in the beginning of their careers. If there ever was a director who worked with the best cast of actors, Woody Allen is it.

[Sven]

Everyone Says I Love You is middle-tier Woody. It's goofy, and surprisingly soft for Woody, even if he did get carried away at the end there. The non-musical aspects work best (a lot of the songs are just not performed well) and I was surprised at the cast of Ed Norton and Natalie Portman both in the beginning of their careers. If there ever was a director who worked with the best cast of actors, Woody Allen is it.

Altman has him beat. Mostly because he never worked with *ahem* Edward Norton or Natalie Portman. ZING!

[Watashi]

Altman has him beat. Mostly because he never worked with *ahem* Edward Norton or Natalie Portman. ZING!
I don't get it. What was so suppose to be so "zing" about that? Both actors were very good in their limited roles they had.

[soitgoes...]

The Browning Version (1951) exceeded all my expectations, which where fairly high in the first place. A first rate character study of a hated school teacher who comes to realise his own failures as a teacher, husband and a human being. Michael Redgrave delivers one of the best performances I've ever seen, and the careful direction by Asquith helps maintain the subtlety of his evolution and relationships. The film is far more than just an actor's film though, and it reveals so much about perceptions and human nature. It's a film I hardly see getting any mention... anywhere, and it's a damn shame. I don't think I am doing the film justice, or if I can give it enough praise. Do yourself a favour and see it if you haven't already.
Indeed. Asquith's Pygmalion is great as well.

[number8]

I don't get it. What was so suppose to be so "zing" about that? Both actors were very good in their limited roles they had.

I think he's saying they're both terrible actors, so by never working with them, Altman wins.

Or something.

You can use Lindsay Lohan if you like.

[Watashi]

I think he's saying they're both terrible actors, so by never working with them, Altman wins.

Or something.

You can use Lindsay Lohan if you like.

Yeah, but they're not terrible actors, so I still don't get.

[origami_mustache]

I was mostly referring to the aesthetic, which does absolutely nothing to bring the movie to cinematic life. You can argue that it reflects the ennui and insularity in the story, but this still makes for little more than a boring Art-with-a-capital-A project. I'd rather watch Goodbye South, Goodbye again any day.

Oh wow, I didn't think the aesthetics were disputable. To me Goodybe South, Goodbye was a pretty typical crime drama only distinctive because of the directorial style applied.

[Sven]

Lindsay Lohan has more charm than both Edward Norton or Natalie Portman, both of whom have been good in the past, neither of whom are particularly great actors. Which is not to suggest Lohan is, but she's better than the other two. It was a lame joke, I know, but this is the gist of what I was getting at: Altman has Allen beat in terms of the overall quality (and quantity) of actors he's directed.

[Rowland]

Oh wow, I didn't think the aesthetics were disputable. To me Goodybe South, Goodbye was a pretty typical crime drama only distinctive because of the directorial style applied.Disputable in what sense? Are you disputing what I said?

Goodbye South, Goodbye has more to say than Flowers of Shanghai, and it does so in a far more engaging way... but I still think it's merely okay. The only Hsiao-hsien I really like is Millennium Mambo.

[MacGuffin]

Little Miss Sunshine: one of the decade's most annoying movies thus far.

[origami_mustache]

Disputable in what sense? Are you disputing what I said?

Goodbye South, Goodbye has more to say than Flowers of Shanghai, and it does so in a far more engaging way... but I still think it's merely okay. The only Hsiao-hsien I really like is Millennium Mambo.


I'm not disputing, I respect your opinion, just not used to hearing that. Most people that disliked the film that I've heard from at least acknowledge the aesthetic beauty. I just found the mise en scéne especially gorgeous, and assumed that was the general consensus. Goodbye South, Goodbye didn't have anything to say that I haven't seen from Hou before in his other films. Flowers of Shanghai was a refreshing digression.

[Li Lili]

Disputable in what sense? Are you disputing what I said?

Goodbye South, Goodbye has more to say than Flowers of Shanghai, and it does so in a far more engaging way... but I still think it's merely okay. The only Hsiao-hsien I really like is Millennium Mambo.
Millennium Mambo is a minor work of all his films...

[Li Lili]

And City of Sadness one of his best works and a must-see film.

[Qrazy]

Without Robocop and Starship Troopers though, it wouldn't be as good.

I need to see Soldier of Orange.

Those films don't do much for me. I'd take Soldier, Turkish Delight and Black Book... hell even The Fourth Man over either any day.

[Qrazy]

No, you are right that the movie's reputation isn't exactly sterling. Besides, I don't know if Sycophant and I typify how it is generally perceived around here either.

On the other hand it did make the 1,001 movies to see before you die list.

[Qrazy]

I love Jeanette. I moved the film up my queue when I found out the song is in the film.

It's played often throughout. So you're in luck, you'll be hearing it quite a few times. :)

[Philosophe_rouge]

Indeed. Asquith's Pygmalion is great as well.
I'll be checking this out then.

[Qrazy]

Wait... what?

I believe he's trying to embody Ebert's senility.

[Rowland]

Most people that disliked the film that I've heard from at least acknowledge the aesthetic beauty. I just found the mise en scéne especially gorgeousIt is beautiful, in a pretty way. I said it does nothing to bring the movie to life. It's just the same sepia look for two hours, shot in the exact same way, with people just sitting around. There is virtually no deviation, no animation, no cinema. It looks like a stageplay. As for the mise en scéne, that strikes me more as set design.
Goodbye South, Goodbye didn't have anything to say that I haven't seen from Hou before in his other films.Right. Well I'm no Hou expert. I just thought it was more interesting to parse, and I wasn't as bored while watching it.
Flowers of Shanghai was a refreshing digression.Have you seen Millennium Mambo? I think it tackles similar themes in a much more appealing manner.

[Rowland]

Millennium Mambo is a minor work of all his films...So I'm told. :shrug:

[Qrazy]

The Browning Version (1951) exceeded all my expectations, which where fairly high in the first place. A first rate character study of a hated school teacher who comes to realise his own failures as a teacher, husband and a human being. Michael Redgrave delivers one of the best performances I've ever seen, and the careful direction by Asquith helps maintain the subtlety of his evolution and relationships. The film is far more than just an actor's film though, and it reveals so much about perceptions and human nature. It's a film I hardly see getting any mention... anywhere, and it's a damn shame. I don't think I am doing the film justice, or if I can give it enough praise. Do yourself a favour and see it if you haven't already.

Fantastic film, I love it too. I have to say though I don't think it's really about his coming to realize his own failings per se. Granted he does begin to get a better understanding of the depths of his difficulties as a teacher... but I feel the film is more about how and why he's become the way he is... Self-fulfilling prophecies, the way in which feeling he's not inspiring anyone, he shuts down and does not even try to inspire anyone... Also his relationship with a woman who has no love or respect for him and how all these things come together so that he closes off his emotions and finds his solace in the routine, the mundane realities of life.

I think the film resonates so powerfully, because most of us have had an incredibly cold or dry teacher like this... and the film shows the reasons behind the facade, how they became this way, and what it was that crushed their spirit.

[Qrazy]

Yeah, but they're not terrible actors, so I still don't get.

Portman is middling but Norton? He's terrific.

[origami_mustache]

It is beautiful, in a pretty way. I said it does nothing to bring the movie to life. It's just the same sepia look for two hours, shot in the exact same way, with people just sitting around. There is virtually no deviation, no animation, no cinema. It looks like a stageplay. As for the mise en scéne, that strikes me more as set design. Right. Well I'm no Hou expert. I just thought it was more interesting to parse, and I wasn't as bored while watching it. Have you seen Millennium Mambo? I think it tackles similar themes in a much more appealing manner.

I don't see the need for deviation. It didn't look stagey to me. The tight spaces, different rooms, and crevices sold it for me and it worked because the brothel is a cage imprisoning the characters not fortunate enough to gain freedom. I have seen Millenium Mambo, and enjoyed it. It's been a while since I saw it though.

[Sven]

I'll be checking this out then.

There's no way you won't love it. One of the greatest films ever made.

[origami_mustache]

And City of Sadness one of his best works and a must-see film.

Watching this tonight I also snatched The Sandwich Man, but without English subs. :(

[Sven]

Portman is middling but Norton? He's terrific.

Terrifically smug.

[Philosophe_rouge]

There's no way you won't love it. One of the greatest films ever made.
I don't think I could be more excited :pritch:

[Spinal]

I would love, love, love to embrace a movie with Toni Collette, Alan Arkin and Steve Carell. Quirky indie sensation or not. I don't imagine myself a cineaste, so I have no qualms about heaping praise on unfashionable films.

However, the teenage son character made me want to do violence to other human beings. I count that as a major strike against the film.

[Rowland]

the brothel is a cage imprisoning the characters not fortunate enough to gain freedom. Yeah, which is why I said that you can kinda sorta justify it, on these merits. Nevertheless, a movie about stifled characters doesn't need to be so stifling. Ming-liang is much more expressive with his rigorous formalism. I see more beauty in any ten minutes of What Time Is It There? than all of Flowers of Shanghai.

[origami_mustache]

Ming-liang is much more expressive with his rigorous formalism. I see more beauty in any ten minutes of What Time Is It There? than all of Flowers of Shanghai.

I slightly prefer Ming-liang Tsai myself. I think Hsiao-hsien Hou's films are often better understood when familiarized with the Taiwanese history.

[MacGuffin]

There is a dispute going on regarding I'm Not There, and Jonathan Rosenbaum's criticism of it (http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/moviereviews/2007/071122/). Bob Dylan's Alter Ego has posted a lengthy refute on why both of these are "bogus", and admits to having not even seen I'm Not There. (http://bobdylanalterego.blogspot.com/)

[baby doll]

There is a dispute going on regarding I'm Not There, and Jonathan Rosenbaum's criticism of it (http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/moviereviews/2007/071122/). Bob Dylan's Alter Ego has posted a lengthy refute on why both of these are "bogus", and admits to having not even seen I'm Not There. (http://bobdylanalterego.blogspot.com/)The only thing I'm less interested in than the real Bob Dylan's opinion of the film is the opinion of some one pretending to be Bob Dylan who hasn't even seen the film--esspecially when the refute is a lengthy one.

[MacGuffin]

The only thing I'm less interested in than the real Bob Dylan's opinion of the film is the opinion of some one pretending to be Bob Dylan who hasn't even seen the film--esspecially when the refute is a lengthy one.

Yeah, it looked kind of phony. Then again, Jonathan Rosenbaum seemed to like it, but he may have just been trying to cover the fact that everybody seemed to hate his review.

[Sycophant]

The few sentences I lighted upon while scanning that article were amazingly shrill.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Madame de... is my second Ophuls film, and I have to say my appreciation for him has grown significantly. While I was able to respect Letters from an Unknown Woman, I found it too melodramatic, and Joan Fontaine's character too feeble for me to truly enjou the film. I can't profess being fully under the spell of this film either, but it's more to do with my own difficulties with the tonal changes, from comedy, to drama and something in between. The acting is divine, I know the actors mostly for their comedy, which is probably why I found the transition a little difficult to adjust to. I love how the film looks, and Ophuls moving camera is a marvel... nearly every shot is a marvel, and yet there isn't anything excessive or superfluous about it. The importance of fate, and the consequences and effects of the doomed romance on all three parties are incredibly well "woven". While much credit is due to Ophuls, the script is equally as vital... it hits every note perfectly. I would love to see this film again, and I can only see my appreciation for it growing.

[Mysterious Dude]

About Madame de...

I kind of wish they had shown the outcome of the duel. I guess it was pretty obvious how it was going to turn out, but at least give me something!

Also, did she die in the end? I wasn't clear on that, either.

My favorite line:

- I'm not even pretty anymore.
- You're as pretty as ever.
- Really?!

[Philosophe_rouge]

About Madame de...

I kind of wish they had shown the outcome of the duel. I guess it was pretty obvious how it was going to turn out, but at least give me something!

Also, did she die in the end? I wasn't clear on that, either.

My favorite line:

- I'm not even pretty anymore.
- You're as pretty as ever.
- Really?!

I'm not sure myself, I assume what you assume... but even then, I'm not quite so sure. Leading up to the duel I had a weird idea that the General would let the Baron win, but I don't now where that came from. I assume she did die, but like you I'm not quite sure...

That was a great part, the film was quite funny at times. Especially in the first half, but like in the section you mention, the humour was sparkled throughout.

[Ezee E]

Wuss.
It's terrific stuff. I'm surprised you're still around after your 9-hour marathon.

[Li Lili]

So I'm told. :shrug:
Considering to his other films of this era, yes. Ok, Shu Qi she's great in Hou's films (probably on,e of the only director who can show the best of her, she has presence and some talent but very well exploited in most of the films she's in), again the cinematography, typical in his style is great too, but for instance, Café Lumière is much more interesting, less narration, even more based on the actors (Tadanobu Asano is anyway one of the best actors of today). Even though it was commissioned for the occasion of the 100th anniversary of Ozu's birth, and therefore we can find some references and parallels, its narrative is much blurred, and less important.
To me Café Lumiere and Three Times are films mainly based on impressions, presence of things and characters, Millennium Mambo doesn't reach this.

[origami_mustache]

To me Café Lumiere and Three Times are films mainly based on impressions, presence of things and characters, Millennium Mambo doesn't reach this.

You were right about A City of Sadness. Easily Hou's greatest accomplishment in filmmaking. Such a beautiful and important film both politically and for Taiwanese cinema.

[number8]

Today I watched Anti-Trust for the first time since I saw it in theaters.

It is awful, but oh-so-good. Tim Robbins' Bizarro Bill Gates is amazing.

[transmogrifier]

Secret Sunshine

Starts off an insightful, emotionally-affecting look at how religion is often used to fill a hole that is too painful to fill with anything tangible and real; spirituality as a distraction, spirituality as a salve. It even ups the ante, by showing how the deeply religious can actually tune themselves out of the humanistic wavelength, sitting in a circle praying when they could be aiding someone directly themselves. Up to this point, the film is neatly balancing character drama and grimly engaging melodrama to great effect - but then, as with so many other Korean dramas, the plot grinds to a halt in the 3rd act and the vicitimization machine starts spinning in place, with redundant, shrill scenes of the protagonist going through the psychological wringer, and coming out the other end less a real person and more a pinata for a good idea stretched too far into literalism with good intentions. It's a pity, because it's gorgeous to look at, the super wide compositions cinematically reprocessing smalltown ordinariness, quite the elegant visual metaphor for the heroine's spiritual makeover, and the acting is never less than excellent.

66

[Boner M]

Today marks the death of the real Mr. Lazarescu - RIP Ion Fiscuteanu (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/10/arts/10ficuteanu.html?ex=1197954000&en=b71462db9712c83d&ei=5123&partner=BREITBART). :sad:

[Rowland]

To me Café Lumiere and Three Times are films mainly based on impressions, presence of things and characters, Millennium Mambo doesn't reach this.You don't think it does... whatever it is you mean. Most movies have the presence of things and characters.

[megladon8]

Watched Raising Arizona last night, and it took me quite a long time to come to the final rating of 6.5. It's the third time I've seen the film, but this is the first time I really felt I "got it".

There's some absolute gold in there. Very funny dialogue, and some wonderful camerawork.

But there's also a lot of stuff I really didn't like. Leonard Smalls, for example, seemed totally pointless to me. It really didn't seem like he was necessary to the story, and this is actually the first time I understood that he's supposed to be H.I.'s father.

Anyways, yeh, it's good, but a lot of it bugs me, so I can't bring myself to give it a higher rating.


Then after watching that, I tried to watch Alien vs. Predator. I couldn't get farther than 27 minutes...what a wretched, terrible, stupid, pathetic excuse for a movie.

[Rowland]

Leonard Smalls, for example, seemed totally pointless to meLeonard Smalls is hardly pointless. He is Raising Arizona's Chigurh, only he resonates on a more immediately personal level for H.I.
he's supposed to be H.I.'s father.
What? No he's not.

[megladon8]

What? No he's not.


Yes he is.

The baby boots. The matching tattoo. Then H.I. saying "I'm so sorry".

[Rowland]

The baby boots. The matching tattoo. Then H.I. saying "I'm so sorry".That doesn't make him his father. You're reading it too literally.

[number8]

Once = :)

[megladon8]

That doesn't make him his father. You're reading it too literally.


Then what is he in relation to H.I.?

[Ivan Drago]

Raising Arizona has the single greatest prison break scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5HVPKO9Aow) in all of film.

[megladon8]

Raising Arizona has the single greatest prison break scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5HVPKO9Aow) in all of film.


I actually found Goodman's "AAAAHHHHHH!" to be incredibly annoying in that scene.

I turned the volume down until it was over.

[Rowland]

Then what is he in relation to H.I.?Smalls doesn't have any actual relation to H.I. (he is hardly even portrayed as human), though he does have plenty of metaphorical significance. Note that he is introduced in H.I.'s dreams the night they kidnap the baby, rocketing out from a wall of flames.

[Rowland]

Raising Arizona has the single greatest prison break scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5HVPKO9Aow) in all of film.You've seen enough prison break scenes to know this? :P

[Spinal]

I actually found Goodman's "AAAAHHHHHH!" to be incredibly annoying in that scene.

I turned the volume down until it was over.

Clearly you are not embracing the comedic style of the film.

[chrisnu]

Clearly you are not embracing the comedic style of the film.
I think that was my problem when I watched the film for the first time, which was at least a couple years ago. I recently re-watched the diaper robbery on YouTube and enjoyed it a lot, so I think this warrants a re-visit.

[megladon8]

Clearly you are not embracing the comedic style of the film.


...or maybe I just found that scene to be annoying? :P

I mean, I am an admitted non-fan of the Coens.

[Watashi]

...or maybe I just found that scene to be annoying? :P

I mean, I am an admitted non-fan of the Coens.
Yet you have seen the film three times?

[EvilShoe]

...or maybe I just found that scene to be annoying? :P


Only a lesser man would feel that way.
Are you a lesser man?

[Qrazy]

Terrifically smug.

He still pwns in Kingdom of Heaven.

[Qrazy]

I think Raising Arizona is my favorite Coens.

[megladon8]

Yet you have seen the film three times?


Once when I was a kid.

Once over a year ago when my dad wanted to see it.

And last night I thought I'd throw it on to see if it had grown on me at all.

[transmogrifier]

I think Raising Arizona is my favorite Coens.

Insert a "least" in there and I'm right with you.

[/conveniently forgets The Ladykillers]

[Winston*]

Insert a "least" in there and I'm right with you.


But that would completely change the meaning of his statement!

[Qrazy]

But that would completely change the meaning of his statement!

I call shenanigans.

[transmogrifier]

But that would completely change the meaning of his statement!

Get out!