28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Derek]

Silverman's jab at Paris Hilton was brilliant.

I don't understand how you can't appreciate that meg. Paris is blonde and skinny!

[number8]

That was mean, really?

Maybe I've just seen too many roast shows, but that was uber-tame to the taming max.

[megladon8]

I like how I'm being made to look like an asshole. :confused:

[DavidSeven]

Welcome to Match-Cut!

[Dead & Messed Up]

I agree with this, completely.

I still thought it was a mean thing to say. At an awards show.

Ribbing is fun and expected from a comedian, but that was mean.

Sure. I just felt it was warranted and cathartic. Like when Conan makes one of his jabs at her expense; the really blatant ones that point out what we all know to be true but few actually cop to.

It reminds me of how much I loved Norm MacDonald on Weekend Update, when he would just skip the joke and call Michael Jackson a pedophile, or OJ a wife-killer.

[Derek]

That was mean, really?

Maybe I've just seen too many roast shows, but that was uber-tame to the taming max.

I think it's the environment (ie, not a roast) that made it so shocking to people. But I think you're right - too many roasts seen for that to seem "overboard" to me, especially directed towards someone like Paris.

[number8]

Sure. I just felt it was warranted and cathartic. Like when Conan makes one of his jabs at her expense; the really blatant ones that point out what we all know to be true but few actually cop to.

It reminds me of how much I loved Norm MacDonald on Weekend Update, when he would just skip the joke and call Michael Jackson a pedophile, or OJ a wife-killer.

Same. And Conan does the same, as well, which I love. His OJ jokes are almost always terrible and nonsensical ("One of the men who was allegedly robbed by O.J. Simpson is now saying he won't press charges. In exchange, O.J. has promised not to double murder the man."), but the punchline is always the same: OJ did it.

[Boner M]

So, Chan-Wook Park's Thirst opens tomorrow in Sydney, with Joon-ho Bong's Mother the next week. :pritch:

[B-side]

Not a big Sarah Silverman fan. Hate Leslie Mann. Tina Fey's cool. Wiig is hot.

[Watashi]

Not a big Sarah Silverman fan. Hate Leslie Mann. Tina Fey's cool. Wiig is hot.
I agree with this completely.

[B-side]

I agree with this completely.

:cool:

[Sycophant]

Sarah Silverman's pretty limited as an actor, but her show is often brilliant. It has a lot of interesting things to say about liberalism, egocentrism, and television.

Oh, and Wats, I do remember you hating Enchanted, and I love you for it.

Also, props to DavidSeven mentioning Ellen. She's pretty great. Kind of wish she'd act more.

[B-side]

Got Last Year at Marienbad to watch here soon. This is one of those movies where I feel like I really wanna love it. Oh, the pressure.

[Sycophant]

So, Chan-Wook Park's Thirst opens tomorrow in Sydney, with Joon-ho Bong's Mother the next week. :pritch:

The only people I'm more jealous of right now are those lucky bastards who have an opportunity to see Evangelion 1.0: Your Are (Not) Alone in North American theaters this Summer/Autumn.

[Sycophant]

Other good comedic actresses: Cheryl Hines, Regina King

I wish Anne Ramsey still had a career.

And though I can't really stand her in most things, I think Wanda Sykes is great when she shows up in Curb Your Enthusiasm.

[B-side]

Other good comedic actresses: Cheryl Hines, Regina King

I wish Anne Ramsey still had a career.

And though I can't really stand her in most things, I think Wanda Sykes is great when she shows up in Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Cheryl Hines is hot. And I totally agree with the last part.

[Spinal]

Anna Faris and Jane Lynch together! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKy6tGlWZiQ&feature=related)

I love it when Faris says, "ARE YOU READY?" :lol:

[Ezee E]

Tea Leoni should be mentioned, but also seems to take eccentric mom roles all the time.

I really like Julia Louis-Dreyfus, but can't think of a movie she's in. Tina Fey seems to have the same comedic timing as her. Both should do movies.

[Ezee E]

I wasn't expecting much, but the Friday the 13th reboot sure knew how to show that horror is in a dry spell right now. It felt like a class exercise in making a horror film in which a new student directs each scene.

The preview sums it up perfectly. Basically a body count without any regard for characters.

The bottom three movies of 2009 are all horror.

[soitgoes...]

I wasn't expecting much, but the Friday the 13th reboot sure knew how to show that horror is in a dry spell right now. It felt like a class exercise in making a horror film in which a new student directs each scene.
I kinda saw this the other night. Kinda, in that it was on the TV, but my attention was lost after the first 20 minutes, so I did a bunch of other stuff with it as background noise. If a horror film can't grab you right off the bat, then something is wrong.

[trotchky]

I believe that Gregg Araki has made two very successful movies (Smiley Face, The Doom Generation) and one hit-and-miss film (Mysterious Skin). My opinion on his oeuvre, however, tend to run contrary to even what his fans think.

I really, truly do not understand how anyone can call Smiley Face predictable. Gags? It's a freewheeling film about post-collegiate waywardness, which is completely nailed by Anna Faris' tragicomic performance.

I'm a fan and you opinion isn't too different from mine. Smiley Face and Mysterious Skin are his two masterpieces, imo, while The Doom Generation and Totally F***ed Up are both great. The rest range from really good to average.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I started boycotting horror film remakes last year. It's made me happier.

Although I did buckle and see Halloween, but that was mostly because I'm a fan of Rob Zombie. And I thought it fascinating stuff, even though it clearly was not that good of a movie.

[trotchky]

I'm a fan of Rob Zombie too; I really want to see his Halloween remake.

[Stay Puft]

I think I'm done with ghost stories. I always get distracted by how stupid they are.

[MacGuffin]

horror is in a dry spell right now.

I don't believe it. There have been four major horror movements in my opinion: 1) The horror movies of Universal Studios and Jacques Tourner of the 30s and 40s (I'm not too familiar with this one; I've seen some Universal horror movies of this period, but nothing by Jacques Tourner, shockingly enough). 2) 50s and 60s gothic horror: William Castle and Vincent Price. 3) 60s and 70s gialli and more gothic horror: Italian directors like Argento and Bava. 4) Today's current French New Wave of Horror movement with movies by Aja, Du Welz, etc. I'm leaving out the grindhouse movement because some of that stuff isn't even horror, and was basically purposefully underground and really only a cult novelty.

[soitgoes...]

I don't believe it. There have been four major horror movements in my opinion: 1) The horror movies of Universal Studios and Jacques Tourner of the 30s and 40s (I'm not too familiar with this one; I've seen some Universal horror movies of this period, but nothing by Jacques Tourner, shockingly enough). 2) 50s and 60s gothic horror: William Castle and Vincent Price. 3) 60s and 70s gialli and more gothic horror: Italian directors like Argento and Bava. 4) Today's current French New Wave of Horror movement with movies by Aja, Du Welz, etc. I'm leaving out the grindhouse movement because some of that stuff isn't even horror, and was basically purposefully underground and really only a cult novelty.
I think you're boiling this down too far. Hammer horror? The rise of the slasher film in the 70's? J-horror and all its Asian brothers? German Expressionist films in the 20's? Personally I don't think that horror films can be broken down into clear cut movements. There are always and have always been tons of horror films released every year for the past 90 years. Some are good, most are not.

[MacGuffin]

I think you're boiling this down too far. Hammer horror? The rise of the slasher film in the 70's? J-horror and all its Asian brothers? German Expressionist films in the 20's? Personally I don't think that horror films can be broken down into clear cut movements. There are always and have always been tons of horror films released every year for the past 90 years. Some are good, most are not.

Oh, yeah. I didn't think about that. But I think it's safe to say that there is a movement of sorts in France right now (although I don't know if Ezee was just saying that he's sick of horror remakes).

[soitgoes...]

Oh, yeah. I didn't think about that. But I think it's safe to say that there is a movement of sorts in France right now (although I don't know if Ezee was just saying that he's sick of horror remakes).Is it a true movement? Or just a bunch of good horror films from France coming out in the last few years? What makes it a "movement of sorts?"

[MacGuffin]

Is it a true movement? Or just a bunch of good horror films from France coming out in the last few years? What makes it a "movement of sorts?"

What constitutes a "true movement"? Has anybody ever sat down and said, 'Okay, we're going to do this?' As far as I'm aware, movements become over a period of time, the most popular example of course being the results of a bunch of young film critics with a yearning to make movies similar to the essays they wrote, based on the society the way that they saw it. Maybe movements are the result of trends. Perhaps those words are synonymous. The "superhero movie" movement, wherein people see specific movies make money, so they make that sort of movie themselves. Obviously, I'm being a bit general, and while I don't want to get into semantics, these are a few of my thoughts on the matter. I think there seem to have been many horror movies out of France, however good they are, they seem to be occurring one after the other. Whether this is a movement, I guess I'm not really sure, but I certainly don't think horror movies are stuck in a dry spell.

[soitgoes...]

What constitutes a "true movement"? Has anybody ever sat down and said, 'Okay, we're going to do this?' As far as I'm aware, movements become over a period of time, the most popular example of course being the results of a bunch of young film critics with a yearning to make movies similar to the essays they wrote, based on the society the way that they saw it. Maybe movements are the result of trends. Perhaps those words are synonymous. The "superhero movie" movement, wherein people see specific movies make money, so they make that sort of movie themselves. Obviously, I'm being a bit general, and while I don't want to get into semantics, these are a few of my thoughts on the matter. I think there seem to have been many horror movies out of France, however good they are, they seem to be occurring one after the other. Whether this is a movement, I guess I'm not really sure, but I certainly don't think horror movies are stuck in a dry spell.Basically, is there something defining among all the horror films out of France that would constitute it as a movement? Outside of it being "horror" or "French" I think there has to be something more. The gialli have more to them than just being Italian horror. The French have always made horror films, why are these films now a part of a "movement?" That was what I was getting at. Perhaps it is, I don't know. I've only seen 2-3 French horror films from the past few years, so my knowledge is limited on the matter. I guess I'm looking for an answer more akin to the semantics of what is a movement, and more directly, a French horror movement. ;)

I also don't think horror is in a dry spell. There is always one or two each year that stand out for me, and there are about 10 that are shit.

[MacGuffin]

Basically, is there something defining among all the horror films out of France that would constitute it as a movement? Outside of it being "horror" or "French" I think there has to be something more. The gialli have more to them than just being Italian horror. The French have always made horror films, why are these films now a part of a "movement?" That was what I was getting at. Perhaps it is, I don't know. I've only seen 2-3 French horror films from the past few years, so my knowledge is limited on the matter. I guess I'm looking for an answer more akin to the semantics of what is a movement, and more directly, a French horror movement. ;)

Probably not, no.

[Qrazy]

Sarah Silverman's pretty limited as an actor, but her show is often brilliant. It has a lot of interesting things to say about liberalism, egocentrism, and television.


No it doesn't.

[MacGuffin]

Oh, by the way, I saw Karina Longworth walking around tonight, I think.

[Boner M]

Whereas Ride Lonesome felt a little flabby and inert in the early stages only to pick up considerably later on, The Tall T is a lean, perfectly engineered piece of entertainment with never a dull or superfluous moment; every beat registers with full force so that you almost forget how predictable the outcome is given that Boetticher creates tension within the scenes so immaculately. Randolph Scott's final line is just the icing on the cake for probably the best B-western I've seen yet.

[B-side]

There seems to be some sort of Boetticher re-evaluation going on. I've seen nothing from him. I suppose I should change this.

[B-side]

Face (Tsai, 2009) ***

How did you see this?

I'm sure this has been asked before, I just haven't seen it.

[soitgoes...]

Whereas Ride Lonesome felt a little flabby and inert in the early stages only to pick up considerably later on, The Tall T is a lean, perfectly engineered piece of entertainment with never a dull or superfluous moment; every beat registers with full force so that you almost forget how predictable the outcome is given that Boetticher creates tension within the scenes so immaculately. Randolph Scott's final line is just the icing on the cake for probably the best B-western I've seen yet.
Hmm... I found Ride Lonesome superior, though I enjoyed both. Seven Men from Now is also great and should be next for you.

[Ezee E]

I'd have to take a look at what I've seen over the past two or three years, but The Strangers and Aja's remake are the only effective horror movies that come to mind. Aja went on and did the unwatchable (didn't even bother) Mirrors.

Oh wait, Let the Right One In could be considered horror.

But still... with the "torture" horror stint coming to an end, I'm curious as to what the new type of horror will be, and when it'll come.

[MacGuffin]

I'd have to take a look at what I've seen over the past two or three years, but The Strangers and Aja's remake are the only effective horror movies that come to mind. Aja went on and did the unwatchable (didn't even bother) Mirrors.

Oh wait, Let the Right One In could be considered horror.

But still... with the "torture" horror stint coming to an end, I'm curious as to what the new type of horror will be, and when it'll come.

Here's a list of every horror movie I seen since 2000 and whether I found them worthwhile or not.

Worth watching:
The Abandoned (Spain)
Baghead (US)
Calvaire (France)
High Tension (US)
The Hills Have Eyes (US)
Inside (France)
Irréversible (France)
Let the Right One In (Sweden)
Martyrs (France)
The Others (US)
Pelts (US)
Pulse (Japan)
[•Rec] (Spain)
The Ring (US)
Session 9 (US)
Sheitan (France)
The Strangers (US)
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (US)
Them (France)
Twentynine Palms (France)
Vinyan (France)

Not worth watching:
Cabin Fever (US)
Dark Water (Japan)
Dawn of the Dead (US)
The Devil's Backbone (Spain)
The Devil's Rejects (US)
Drag Me to Hell (US)
Frontier(s) (France)
Gutterballs (US)
Hollow Man (US)
Hostel (US)
The Host (South Korea)
House of 1000 Corpses (US)
In My Skin (France)
Maléfique (France)
100 Tears (US)
The Ring Two (US)
Saw (US)
Saw II (US)
Saw III (US)
Silent Hill (US)
Slither (US)
Vacancy (US)
Wolf Creek (Australia)

You can see that most of the ones I found not worthwhile come from the US. I am not sure whether or not this is by coincidence, but it suggests that the ratio of good horror movies made in the US so far this decade to the good movies made elsewhere in the world is about 3:4.

[soitgoes...]

Here's a list of every horror movie I seen since 2000 and whether I found them worthwhile or not...
Watch The Descent.

[Ezee E]

The Descent is great, and possibly the best horror movie this decade.

When I say it's in a dry spell, I'm referring to what has come out in the last two-three years. I believe only two or three movies from your 'worth watching' list are on that.

[B-side]

The Hills Have Eyes (US)

Thoughts on this? I remember kinda enjoying it, but I never gave it any more credit than being a gross-out horror.


The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (US)

Really? The remake?

[Mara]

As I was falling asleep last night, I realized I forgot Portia De Rossi, who is hilarious. Luckily, Qrazy mentioned her.

[Raiders]

Whereas Ride Lonesome felt a little flabby and inert in the early stages only to pick up considerably later on, The Tall T is a lean, perfectly engineered piece of entertainment with never a dull or superfluous moment; every beat registers with full force so that you almost forget how predictable the outcome is given that Boetticher creates tension within the scenes so immaculately. Randolph Scott's final line is just the icing on the cake for probably the best B-western I've seen yet.

Hm, yeah, I'm the direct opposite of this. I was never very engaged by The Tall T and it certainly has nothing in it as awesome as the final ten minutes or so of Ride Lonesome.

[Pop Trash]

I'd already put Drag Me to Hell in my top horror movies of this decade.

[Pop Trash]

And Clipper's list is pretty wrong on a lot of those movies.

[Boner M]

Hmm... I found Ride Lonesome superior, though I enjoyed both. Seven Men from Now is also great and should be next for you.
Seen it, and it's great indeed.

Also, you and Raiders are edging me toward another Ride Lonesome viewing before I return the set back to my library, although Comanche Station is a priority.

[Boner M]

How did you see this?

I'm sure this has been asked before, I just haven't seen it.
Sydney Film Fest. Probably not a good idea to put it in the festival's 'offical competition, as I imagine there are now hundreds of people who will never want to see another Tsai Ming-Liang film in their life.

[Qrazy]

What constitutes a "true movement"? Has anybody ever sat down and said, 'Okay, we're going to do this?


Dogme and probably Dada.


As far as I'm aware, movements become over a period of time, the most popular example of course being the results of a bunch of young film critics with a yearning to make movies similar to the essays they wrote, based on the society the way that they saw it. Maybe movements are the result of trends. Perhaps those words are synonymous. The "superhero movie" movement, wherein people see specific movies make money, so they make that sort of movie themselves. Obviously, I'm being a bit general, and while I don't want to get into semantics, these are a few of my thoughts on the matter. I think there seem to have been many horror movies out of France, however good they are, they seem to be occurring one after the other. Whether this is a movement, I guess I'm not really sure, but I certainly don't think horror movies are stuck in a dry spell.

Most movements are established retroactively but they also tend to have themes/aesthetics/styles tying them together. From what I've seen (haven't seen much) other than genre, contemporary french horror films don't really have any unifying factors.

[Dead & Messed Up]

The Descent is great, and possibly the best horror movie this decade.

When I say it's in a dry spell, I'm referring to what has come out in the last two-three years. I believe only two or three movies from your 'worth watching' list are on that.

From 2006 to 2009, I've found the following to be worthwhile horror films:

Bug
The Black Cat
Cloverfield
Cthulhu
Drag Me to Hell
Hostel
Let the Right One In
The Mist
The Signal
Slither

Clearly not a huge amount, but I think there are some real winners in there. Hostel gets a bad rap, but I dig its thematic elements and Roth's relative restraint (compared to his previous film).

[Ezee E]

Bug is a good one, and possibly the most original out of the crop.

[Raiders]

Larry Fessenden's The Last Winter is probably my favorite horror film of the last three years. Definitely not for everyone though.

[Melville]

Dogme and probably Dada.
Also Futurism, Symbolism, Surrealism,...

Modern artists seemingly love to get together in groups and declare the goals and principles of their "movement":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_manifesto

[Dead & Messed Up]

Larry Fessenden's The Last Winter is probably my favorite horror film of the last three years. Definitely not for everyone though.

Fessenden continues to make interesting films, but the only one that I thought was great was Habit. His two films afterward both got lost in their overreliance on third-act effects.

If you liked The Last Winter, I highly recommend Cthulhu.

[Grouchy]

Don't you people forget about May. That's a Horror milestone right there.

Man, Class of 1999 is so much funs it hurts the loins. It's got everything that is wrong and amazing about the '80s although it's a 1990 release, but at the same time it's a pretty good movie with exciting action scenes and impressive special effects that look better than anything I saw on Terminator: Salvation last week. The premise is that in the year 1999 public schools are dominated by gang violence. To battle this, the principal (Malcolm McDowell) hires an experimental program of robotic teachers. As you can probably guess the droids soon start getting their own ideas about education. Pam Grier is awesome and sexy as the chemistry teacher and I only wish her character had more scenes. The acting by the kids is bad and the dialogue cheesy, but that's obviously not what matters here.

http://voiceover.blogdiario.com/img/crossir.jpeg

Cross of Iron is a great movie by Peckinpah and another testament to his often overlooked and singular talents. It's an anti-war message delivered with conviction and intelligence, and with a complex and heartfelt central performance by James Coburn. It's also the most atmospheric war film I've ever seen. I loved how most dialogue scenes between officers are punctuated by dust, noise and the scenery crumbling around them. The effect is sort of comical, but it's also a great way to involve us in a world where the characters are living in constant mayhem, both internal and from their environment. The hospital scenes are among the trippiest stuff I've seen from Bloody Sam. The movie also takes on some aspects of service that are not frequently portrayed, like homosexuality on the field. The sad/funny part is that Peckinpah probably only got away with it because it's a story about Nazis and not Americans. The ending, while reportedly improvised by the crew when the movie suddenly lost funding, is totally appropriate and effective. Oh and those are the coolest closing credits for any movie EVAH.

[lovejuice]

Also Futurism, Symbolism, Surrealism,...

Modern artists seemingly love to get together in groups and declare the goals and principles of their "movement":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_manifesto
is that also applicable to impressionists as well? or at least, they sure hanged out together a lot.

[Spinal]

Twentynine Palms a horror movie? :confused:

High Tension worth watching? :confused:

[Dead & Messed Up]

Don't you people forget about May. That's a Horror milestone right there.

We could move this to the horror discussion thread - May is one of my faves of the decade.

[Raiders]

Fessenden continues to make interesting films, but the only one that I thought was great was Habit. His two films afterward both got lost in their overreliance on third-act effects.

Been a long, long while since I have seen Habit but I have liked/loved both of his subsequent films. Wendigo in particular since I thought he at least justified the stilted effects given that:

The wendigo we see is essentially an extension of the wooden figure inside the boy's mind made literal.

I do agree that the effects finale of Last Winter was a little disappointing, but the first hour or so was pretty special.

[dreamdead]

Continuing my study of the South Korean wave, I watched My Sassy Girl, which wears its melodramatic heart on its sleeve, so critiques of it being occasionally maudlin are pointless. While charming throughout, the primary concern is one of why the young girl is so physically violent, though much of the pain is played for laughs. She is essentially presented as a character traumatized by events from her past, yet the film cedes those moments for more conventional mock-injury moments, which disavows a sense of reality to the whole affair. I like some of the filmic metatextual moments, as when the film acts out (bad) filmscripts that she's written, and some of the merging of time and space in the final act is memorably achieved. That said, the most interesting thing about this film is the central question: is the film suggesting such a huge shift in Korean female dominance over men, or is this simply a product for reversing reality...

[Grouchy]

High Tension worth watching? :confused:
Hey, High Tension's ending sucks, but the movie's early slasher scenes are very well made.

[Sycophant]

Thanks for the thoughts on My Sassy Girl, dreamdead. I more or less enjoyed the film when I saw it a few years back; probably felt about the same about it as you did.

Everyone skipped the American remake, right? Now that I think about it, I'd be kind of interested in checking it out, seeing as how the source material just feels so terribly Korean.

[DavidSeven]

My Sassy Girl (original) was pretty good. The story is pretty standard Korean melodrama, but it was balanced well with the off-the-wall humor. Agree with Sycho in that this material just wouldn't work outside the context of Korean culture.

I really loved how it was shot though. Just another middle finger to those who claim broad comedy and interesting filmmaking can't coexist.

[Sycophant]

The running gag of Cha Tae-Hyun near-throwing up along with Jun Ji-hyun was pretty great.

I need to watch more Korean romantic dramedies.

[dreamdead]

My Sassy Girl (original) was pretty good. The story is pretty standard Korean melodrama, but it was balanced well with the off-the-wall humor. Agree with Sycho in that this material just wouldn't work outside the context of Korean culture.

I really loved how it was shot though. Just another middle finger to those who claim broad comedy and interesting filmmaking can't coexist.

Definitely agree with the artistry of the filmmaking throughout. Kwak engineers some really marvelous shots and couples the images with nice rhythmic pace. The scenes where Kyun-woo brings the girl flowers in the girl academy, and how that scene is echoed in the third act reveal, are just handled really well. Not a replica of the former event, but capturing the same beatific quality.

[transmogrifier]

That said, the most interesting thing about this film is the central question: is the film suggesting such a huge shift in Korean female dominance over men, or is this simply a product for reversing reality...

Having lived in Korea, I can safely say it is Option #1 above, at least for the age-group depicted in the movie. Before marriage, especially at university, the girls have all the power. Men basically cater to their every wish. After marriage, once the gruelling hours spend in numbing office environments punctured by demands from superiors to go out and get drunk every second night start kicking in, the wife tends to be backburnered, especially if he gets to knock her up early, thus increasingly the likelihood that she won't demand a divorce.

[Amnesiac]

Speaking of horror, has anyone here seen Carter Smith's short film, Bugcrush (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0492940/)?


http://i44.tinypic.com/5kka49.jpg

It's definitely worth a look. Amazingly well done, thoroughly disturbing. To say anymore would cheapen the experience.

[MacGuffin]

Watch The Descent.

Seen it; must've forgot to rate it on RYM, but it's definitely worth watching.


Thoughts on this? I remember kinda enjoying it, but I never gave it any more credit than being a gross-out horror.

I think Aja is really good at creating and sustaining a tone and atmosphere. It's not great, but it's certain'y worthwhile. I'm not a big fan and soundtrack volume changes in order to create scares, and I think this has a few.


Really? The remake?

It's okay. I don't think it's that good, and is probably barely worthwhile, but it's very well shot.

[Ezee E]

I'm not sure why I watched all of Stuck. I kept thinking, since I liked Edmond, that it would go in a direction I liked, but it managed to just keep getting worse and worse, until it all went up in flames.


Pun intended

[MacGuffin]

I also forgot Eden Lake, which is definitely worth watching.

[Ivan Drago]

I'm not sure why I watched all of Stuck. I kept thinking, since I liked Edmond, that it would go in a direction I liked, but it managed to just keep getting worse and worse, until it all went up in flames.

You are in desperate need of a good movie, from the looks of your signature.

[Ezee E]

You are in desperate need of a good movie, from the looks of your signature.
Indeed.

I have my first Chabrol on the way, and I have The Girlfriend Experience waiting to be watched.

[soitgoes...]

Indeed.

I have my first Chabrol on the way, and I have The Girlfriend Experience waiting to be watched.
Kieslowski.

What Chabrol?

[Sycophant]

Okay, I know this is a day early for the weekend plans posting, but I'm kind of excited about what I'm gonna be watching:

The Hangover, Year One, Star Trek, Deadly Outlaw: Rekka and maybe even Repo! The Genetic Opera or Cheeky!

Haven't watched a new (to me) movie... since Up? Woohoo!

Also gonna catch a performance of "Much Ado About Nothing!"

[soitgoes...]

Does anyone else get joy from typing Kieslowski's name. Try it. Two letters with each hand alternating back and forth. Kinda like making two circles.

[Bosco B Thug]

I'm not sure why I watched all of Stuck. I kept thinking, since I liked Edmond, that it would go in a direction I liked, but it managed to just keep getting worse and worse, until it all went up in flames.


Pun intended I'm struggling to remember if Stuck was actually "good" in regards to directorial craft right now... Well, the big Argento-esque crash, the sex scene, and the finale are all rather distinguished... but I'm also reminded of his blockheaded approach to the subplot with the Mexican family.

Anyway, I loved Stuck. The film's exaggerated contemporary parable fit Stuart Gordon's underachieving ways like a glove. You didn't even just enjoy it, on an "Oh now that's just f'in outrageous..." level? i.e. as a crazy black comedy?


Does anyone else get joy from typing Kieslowski's name. Try it. Two letters with each hand alternating back and forth. Kinda like making two circles. :) Haha, nice thought. I do!

[Dead & Messed Up]

I'm struggling to remember if Stuck was actually "good" in regards to directorial craft right now... Well, the big Argento-esque crash, the sex scene, and the finale are all rather distinguished... but I'm also reminded of his blockheaded approach to the subplot with the Mexican family.

I thought it was "good." The craft wasn't distinguished, but Gordon's interest seemed more in the perverse story. Which is fair, because it's fucking ridiculous.

I liked Stuck significantly more than Edmond, which was a serviceable character piece but little more.


:) Haha, nice thought. I do!

I just tried this. Kieslowski. Huh.

[Sven]

My Sassy Girl was one of the most unbearable films I've ever made it all the way through. Preposterous at every step. I can't even really care to recall it.

[Ezee E]

I can't really think of anything worth noting on Stuck. Seemed like an extended episode of Masters of Horror. Ridiculous, but that was the only option. Stuart Gordon is capable of better.

[Ezee E]

It may have been you soitgoes, but I saw Kieslowski's (I prefer typing Tarkovsky) A Short Film About Killing and forgot to update my Film Swapping thread. I'll get to that.

[Derek]

Pun intended

I'm pretty sure that's how Gordon intended it...

[Pop Trash]

I can't really think of anything worth noting on Stuck. Seemed like an extended episode of Masters of Horror. Ridiculous, but that was the only option. Stuart Gordon is capable of better.

Wow, you are the wrongest of the wrongs. Still one of the best films of last year.

[Sven]

Wow, you are the wrongest of the wrongs.

Well, I guess the phrase isn't copyrighted, so...

[Derek]

Well, I guess the phrase isn't copyrighted, so...

I don't know if it'll help, but I would vote for that phrase being reserved for you only. ;)

[Spinal]

Repo! The Genetic Opera or Cheeky!

:lol:

All you could want from a double feature.

[Sycophant]

:lol:

All you could want from a double feature.

My Netflix queue tells me you are a very persuasive poster.

[number8]

Stuck was amazing. That's really the best example of how to do a chamber horror.

[number8]

Repo! The Genetic Opera was amazing. That's really the best example of how to do a science-fiction horror-comedy opera.

[dreamdead]

My Sassy Girl was one of the most unbearable films I've ever made it all the way through. Preposterous at every step. I can't even really care to recall it.

And yet, here I am asking you to recall it. :) What in the execution was inbearable, if I may? Kyun-woo's continuous seeking of the girl out despite the pain, emotional and otherwise, that she causes him? Some of the escaped military guy stuff? Details, my man...

[Sven]

I don't know if it'll help, but I would vote for that phrase being reserved for you only. ;)

Thanks!

...

Heeeey, wait a minute.

[Sven]

Details, my man...

Honestly, all I can recall before my mind blacks out in a self-induced haze of selective memory is the enormous stretches in recognizable human motivation compounded by a seriously retarded final voice-over that changes (for the worse from the already bad) the nature of those interactions to be even more alien. The military antics did not help.

[number8]

Honestly, all I can recall before my mind blacks out in a self-induced haze of selective memory is the enormous stretches in recognizable human motivation compounded by a seriously retarded final voice-over that changes (for the worse from the already bad) the nature of those interactions to be even more alien. The military antics did not help.

High five. That movie is wretched.

Try being in Asia when it came out. It was akin to Twilight.

[Ezee E]

I'm pretty sure that's how Gordon intended it...
Strong work then Gordon. You successfully made your film suck.

[MacGuffin]

Hey, someone recommend me Tokyo crime Yakuza movies. I've seen some of Johnnie To's stuff (Breaking News and Election) and wasn't really overly impressed, but I'd try more.

[MadMan]

Repo! The Genetic Opera is a musical that I flat out loved. Considering my dislike for the genre at the moment, I'd say that's remarkable and noteworthy.

Aside from Up, I haven't really seen anything worthy of reviewing at the moment. Meh.

[Qrazy]

Hey, someone recommend me Tokyo crime Yakuza movies. I've seen some of Johnnie To's stuff (Breaking News and Election) and wasn't really overly impressed, but I'd try more.

Well technically Election is about triads (Chinese), not Yakuza (Japanese). Suzuki is your man for Yakuza... I like to varying degrees Branded to Kill, Youth of the Beast, Tokyo Drifter, Gate of Flesh. Kitano did Yakuza stuff also but I can't say I was that impressed with what I saw (Sonatine, Violent Cop). Kids Return, Boiling Point and Brother are well regarded. There's also old school Yakuza stuff... Kurosawa's Yojimbo, Sanjuro and Drunken Angel... High and Low isn't really yakuza but it's Japanese crime and I'd recommend it. Tampopo has very minor Yakuza elements and I hear Itami's Minbo is Yakuza but I've only seen the former. It's awesome and hilarious.

Oh, Shinoda's Pale Flower is also great.

Then there's Miike (Gozu, Ichi the Killer). I have not seen either but I don't like his stuff in general.

I've only seen the first one of Fukasaku's The Yakuza Papers and I was not impressed. I've heard better things about Sympathy for the Underdog.

Kobayashi's Inn of Evil and Black Rain are both fairly decent gang/crime films, but not excellent.

Nakajima made a number of Yakuza films but I have not seen any.

---

Alternatively if you want to watch more Triad films Johnny To and John Woo are the staples. The Killer and Hard Boiled are the two best I've seen from Woo.

Aside from what you've seen quality films to see from To (semi triad oriented for the most part) are Election 2, Exiled, The Mission, Sparrow (about pickpocketing), Throw Down and PTU.

Infernal Affairs is also decent but I did not love it.

I found Ringo Lam's City on Fire to be fairly lame. Reservoir Dogs ripped it off though so it has that going for it.

I've also heard good things about Ishii's Gonin (Yakuza) and Hark's Time and Tide (Triad).

[MacGuffin]

Geez, thanks Qrazy. That post was more than I asked or was hoping for.

[MacGuffin]

Of those mentioned, I have seen Youth of the Beast and Gate of Flesh and I thought they were both great and would give them 3.5/5.

[Qrazy]

Of those mentioned, I have seen Youth of the Beast and Gate of Flesh and I thought they were both great and would give them 3.5/5.

Yeah, Suzuki is the man. I need to dive back in and see some more.

[MacGuffin]

Yeah, Suzuki is the man. I need to dive back in and see some more.

Yeah, I've heard his black and white stuff is even more stylish, surprisingly enough. He uses color magnificently, so it will be interesting to see how he uses black and white.

[Derek]

Fuck you, Michael Bay.


But really, welcome back, buddy. This is the Michael Bay I love to hate. Nothing bad or mediocre, just balls-to-wall, fully accelerated suckitude that I've not had the pleasure of encountering for some time now.

[MacGuffin]

Fuck you, Michael Bay.


But really, welcome back, buddy. This is the Michael Bay I love to hate. Nothing bad or mediocre, just balls-to-wall, fully accelerated suckitude that I've not had the pleasure of encountering for some time now.

Why did you watch this?

[origami_mustache]

Fuck you, Michael Bay.


But really, welcome back, buddy. This is the Michael Bay I love to hate. Nothing bad or mediocre, just balls-to-wall, fully accelerated suckitude that I've not had the pleasure of encountering for some time now.

You didn't see the first Transformers?

[Derek]

Why did you watch this?

Went to see it with a couple guys from work.


You didn't see the first Transformers?

I did. It was bad, but not nearly as awful as this one.

[lovejuice]

High five. That movie is wretched.

Try being in Asia when it came out. It was akin to Twilight.
third you and 8. Ji-hyun became every straight boy's fantasy after this which's simply beyond me. the prequel is not any better.

[B-side]

This may have been posted already somewhere, but Antichrist has an official US release date of October 23rd (http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/06/24/lars-von-triers-antichrist-gets-october-release-dates/). Those of us with On-Demand get it 2 days early.

[origami_mustache]

Went to see it with a couple guys from work.



I did. It was bad, but not nearly as awful as this one.

woooooow...that kind of suckitude is hard to fathom.

[Spinal]

This may have been posted already somewhere, but Antichrist has an official US release date of October 23rd (http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/06/24/lars-von-triers-antichrist-gets-october-release-dates/). Those of us with On-Demand get it 2 days early.

OK. Four months. I can do that.

Also, Antichrist is being turned into a video game (http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/06/17/wtf-lars-von-triers-antichristthe-video-game/)? :eek:

[B-side]

OK. Four months. I can do that.

Also, Antichrist is being turned into a video game (http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/06/17/wtf-lars-von-triers-antichristthe-video-game/)? :eek:

Yeah, I saw that. I lol'd at first, but reading some details has me kinda looking forward to it.

[MacGuffin]

Yeah, I saw that. I lol'd at first, but reading some details has me kinda looking forward to it.

It probably won't be released in the US.

[B-side]

It probably won't be released in the US.

Ooh. Yeah. You have a point. Way to deflate me, Clipper. Way to go.:sad:

[MacGuffin]

PROS and CONS of why I should or shouldn't go watch Winter Light right now:

PRO
+ If I watch it now, I can send it back to Netflix and get Waltz With Bashir and Innocence for the weekend.
+ It's only 80 minutes, so it's not too big of a time commitment.
+ Supposedly, it's a masterpiece.
+ I want to watch this movie.

CON
- I'm a little bit tired.
- I haven't been sleeping well lately.
- I kind of wanted to listen to the commentary track with Tony Rayns; I guess I still could, but I probably wouldn't listen to it fully.

[soitgoes...]

PROS and CONS of why I should or shouldn't go watch Winter Light right now:

PRO
+ If I watch it now, I can send it back to Netflix and get Waltz With Bashir and Innocence for the weekend.
+ It's only 80 minutes, so it's not too big of a time commitment.
+ Supposedly, it's a masterpiece.
+ I want to watch this movie.

CON
- I'm a little bit tired.
- I haven't been sleeping well lately.
- I kind of wanted to listen to the commentary track with Tony Rayns; I guess I still could, but I probably wouldn't listen to it fully.
PRO
+ It is one of the best films ever, and is the best film of perhaps the best filmmaker who ever lived.

[MacGuffin]

PRO
+ It is one of the best films ever, and is the best film of perhaps the best filmmaker who ever lived.

Yeah, I don't think I want to watch it tonight. I should probably be basically wide awake and I'm not.

[soitgoes...]

Hey, someone recommend me Tokyo crime Yakuza movies. I've seen some of Johnnie To's stuff (Breaking News and Election) and wasn't really overly impressed, but I'd try more.
Sympathy for the Underdog is Fukasaku's masterpiece I'd imagine. It takes place on Okinawa, not Tokyo, so I'm not sure if that would meet your requirement. FWIW it is probably my third favorite yakuza film after Exiled and Violent Cop.

[MacGuffin]

Sympathy for the Underdog is Fukasaku's masterpiece I'd imagine. It takes place on Okinawa, not Tokyo, so I'm not sure if that would meet your requirement. FWIW it is probably my third favorite yakuza film after Exiled and Violent Cop.

Oh yeah, I don't really care where it takes place (although Tokyo is a great setting due to its lights and structures and stuff). I'll keep those in mind.

[Boner M]

weekend

Thirst
The Hangover
Comanche Station
Innocents With Dirty Hands
Cop au vin

[number8]

Exiled is not a yakuza film. :sad:

[D_Davis]

Hey, someone recommend me Tokyo crime Yakuza movies. I've seen some of Johnnie To's stuff (Breaking News and Election) and wasn't really overly impressed, but I'd try more.

To is my 2nd favorite director, but he's definitely not for everyone.

I'll second Qrazy's recs of The Mission and Exiled. These are his two best films. The Mission is often cited by fans and critics as being one of the best HK crime films ever made, and it is. If you don't like these two films there is a very good chance that you just won't get along with To.

If you do like them, I'd also suggest:

PTU
Where a Good Man Goes
Throwdown
Running Out of Time
A Hero Never Dies

While all are not necessarily triad films, they do deal with the criminal element.

[MacGuffin]

Okay, I'll put The Mission towards the top of my queue for now.

[D_Davis]

Okay, I'll put The Mission towards the top of my queue for now.

Be forewarned: the DVD transfer is terrible. Absolutely the worst I've ever seen; I've seen better pictures on a VHS tape. Why a film so highly regarded hasn't even been remastered is a complete and total mystery to me.

[Stay Puft]

Yeah, I saw that. I lol'd at first, but reading some details has me kinda looking forward to it.

Apparently a Myst clone? I'd play it.

On that note, where's a good place to start for Trier? The last time I was at my local video store I noticed copies of both Breaking the Waves and Dancer in the Dark. All the Antichrist talk lately around Cannes, etc., got me interested in finally checking out his work.

[MacGuffin]

Be forewarned: the DVD transfer is terrible. Absolutely the worst I've ever seen; I've seen better pictures on a VHS tape. Why a film so highly regarded hasn't even been remastered is a complete and total mystery to me.

Wow, should I just hold off until someone releases a better transfer?


Apparently a Myst clone? I'd play it.

On that note, where's a good place to start for Trier? The last time I was at my local video store I noticed copies of both Breaking the Waves and Dancer in the Dark. All the Antichrist talk lately around Cannes, etc., got me interested in finally checking out his work.

While I haven't seen all of his movies, I'd probably say go from Breaking the Waves to Dogville.

[Stay Puft]

TIFF 09 site went live a couple days ago and the first batch of films have been announced:

Masters

Eccentricities of a Blonde-Haired Girl Manoel de Oliveira, France/Portugal/Spain
Les Herbes Folles Alain Resnais, France
Air Doll Hirokazu Kore-eda, Japan


Visions

Face Tsai Ming-liang, France/Taiwan/The Netherlands/Belgium
Independencia Raya Martin, France
Irène Alain Cavalier, France
Karaoke Chris Chong Chan Fui, Malaysia
Nymph Pen-Ek Ratanaruang,Thailand
To Die Like a Man João Pedro Rodrigues, Portugal/France


Vanguard

Fish Tank Andrea Arnold, United Kingdom


Discovery

Gigante Adrian Biniez, Uruguay/Germany/Argentina/The Netherlands
The Happiest Girl in the World Radu Jude, Romania/The Netherlands
Kelin Ermek Tursunov, Kazakhstan
La Pivellina Tizza Covi and Rainer Frimmel, Austria/Italy
Samson and Delilah Warwick Thornton, Australia
Should I Really Do It Ismail Necmi, Turkey


Contemporary World Cinema

Eyes Wide Open Haim Tabakman, Israel
Huacho Alejandro Fernandez Almendras, Chile
Like You Know It All Hong Sang-soo, Republic of Korea
Lourdes Jessica Hausner, Austria/France/Germany
Men on the Bridge Asli Özge, Germany/Turkey/The Netherlands
Police, Adjective Corneliu Porumboiu, Romania
The Time that Remains Elia Suleiman, France/Belgium/Italy
The Wind Journeys Ciro Guerra, Colombia

[Stay Puft]

Probably posting for my own benefit because I'm super excited. So far the only announcements concern films picked up from other festivals (lots of Cannes stuff there, obviously).

Oliveira is 101 years old. :eek:

[soitgoes...]

Wow, should I just hold off until someone releases a better transfer?
Yeah, I had to turn off the DVD that Netflix offers. It is truly abysmal. There are better versions out there though. I have finally seen it (I'm not sure how, KG maybe), and while it is good I don't think it is among To's best work.

[MacGuffin]

Maybe I'll just stick with Seijun Suzuki for now.

[MadMan]

Weekend:

*He Got Game
*Mona Lisa
*The Life of Brian

And anything else I have time to watch. Oh and last night I saw Eraserhead. It was, um, good? A movie? I think? Certainly not conventional cinema, that's for sure.

[Spinal]

On that note, where's a good place to start for Trier?

Breaking the Waves

[baby doll]

Masters

Air Doll Hirokazu Kore-eda, JapanReally, TIFF? Granted, I quite liked After Life, and to a lesser extent, Nobody Knows, but calling the guy a master?... It's a bit much. For one thing, isn't a tad soon, when Hirokazu wasn't even born at the time that fellow master Alain Resnais made Hiroshima mon amour and L'Année dernière Ã* Marienbad? But more importantly, he's just not that good. I realize that I'm way in the minority on Hirokazu's previous film, Still Walking, but doesn't its very popularity--embodied by it winning the critics' prize at last year's Toronto film festival--only confirm its essential blandness? Spicier fare, like Resnais' early films, tends to divide people. (Check out Pauline Kael's huffy dismissals of both films, as well as a passing shot at Muriel ou Le temps d'un retour, in I Lost It at the Movies.) Writing about Tony Manero in the winter issue of Cinema-Scope, the Argentine film critic and programmer QuintÃ*n (who hated the film, incidentally), described it as a "strong" film, in the sense that it couldn't be ignored. Hirokazu is a filmmaker who I could just as easily ignore.

EDIT: Furthermore, does this mean that João Pedro Rodrigues and Tsai Ming-liang aren't masters, but Hirokazu is?

[Sycophant]

My god, baby doll, that's the most baby doll-y post I could ever hope for.


I realize that I'm way in the minority on Hirokazu's previous film, Still Walking, but doesn't its very popularity--embodied by it winning the critics' prize at last year's Toronto film festival--only confirm its essential blandness?

I mean, wow. Also, considering TIFF loved his film so much last year, that might have something to do with the fact they're elevating his newest picture.

And I personally can't ignore Hirokazu. He's one of my favorite filmmakers, and I'd call a few of his films masterful.

[dreamdead]

This weekend I'm gonna try for A Taste of Cherry and Salo. Clearly I'm due to have a great uplifting experience... :confused:

[baby doll]

My god, baby doll, that's the most baby doll-y post I could ever hope for.

I mean, wow. Also, considering TIFF loved his film so much last year, that might have something to do with the fact they're elevating his newest picture.

And I personally can't ignore Hirokazu. He's one of my favorite filmmakers, and I'd call a few of his films masterful.Well, Still Walking was the most popular film among reviewers at TIFF last year, making it the art house Slumdog Millionaire. But I sense that was more a matter of group consensus (read: compromise) than personal enthusiasm. The most enthusiastic piece of criticism I've seen on the film is David Bordwell's lengthy analysis of Hirokazu's group stagings in long shot and deep focus, but that just begs the question: How is that different from Hirokazu's other films, which had more interesting stories (particularly After Life), or the Ozu classics he so reverently alludes to? I also seem to recall A.O. Scott making a special case for it as the kind of film so unambitious and slight (my words, not his, but that's basically what he's saying) that it could easily get lost in the shuffle among more audacious and interesting films.

[Sycophant]

How recently did you read what A.O. Scott said? Because you've rather contorted a sentence of his anoke phrase to fit your perspective on this.


There is the transcendent vitality of “Soul Power” and then, in the screening room next door, the equally transcendent serenity of “Still Walking,” Hirokazu Kore-eda’s delicate examination of the emotional dynamics of a middle-class Japanese family. This is exactly the kind of film — quiet, modest, untroubled by ambitions of importance — that risks being lost in the news media shuffle. And yet it is so completely absorbing, so sure of its own scale and scope that while you’re watching it the rest of the world fades into irrelevance.

He says it risks being lost "in the news media shuffle," which is more about films with an inherently exciting angle (such as colorful, rags-to-riches poverty porn like Slumdog Millionaire) overshadowing yet another quiet, unassuming Japanese family drama. It says nothing about being lost among more "interesting" films. It being "untroubled by ambitions of importance" is not quite the same thing as being unambitious.

Scott later made special mention of Still Walking's excellence in his Cherry Blossoms review.


Her attempts to balance emotional circumspection with an openness to feeling, and to infuse her images with a simple, unaffected beauty, evoke a Japanese tradition going back to Kenji Mizoguchi and Yasujiro Ozu and flourishing in the work of Hirokazu Kore-eda.

If Still Walking is disqualified as being masterful because of its small scale, quiet demeanor, classical technique, and near-universal critical admiration, then so probably is Tokyo Story.

[Boner M]

The great thing about using 'divisiveness' as a measure of quality is that you don't have to have seen the film in question to make a case for it. Isn't cinema wonderful?

[Sycophant]

This weekend I'm gonna try for A Taste of Cherry and Salo. Clearly I'm due to have a great uplifting experience... :confused:

I wouldn't necessarily qualify A Taste of Cherry as non-uplifting.

[Qrazy]

The great thing about using 'divisiveness' as a measure of quality is that you don't have to have seen the film in question to make a case for it. Isn't cinema wonderful?

Indeed.

Here is a picture I took of my teddy bear killing itself.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn264/cigarshirts/suicide-bear-didnt-even-leave-a-not.jpg

[baby doll]

How recently did you read what A.O. Scott said? Because you've rather contorted a sentence of his anoke phrase to fit your perspective on this.Actually, I haven't read it since last fall, so maybe I was remembering it wrong. In any event, I didn't say he was trashing the film, just that he was praising it for the very things I find objectionable.


He says it risks being lost "in the news media shuffle," which is more about films with an inherently exciting angle (such as colorful, rags-to-riches poverty porn like Slumdog Millionaire) overshadowing yet another quiet, unassuming Japanese family drama. It says nothing about being lost among more "interesting" films. It being "untroubled by ambitions of importance" is not quite the same thing as being unambitious.But really, who the hell wants to see yet another quiet, unassuming family drama of any nationality? (Would no one tolerate this kind of crap from a film set in suburban Toronto? Does the fact that it's Japanese make it seem zen and sublime instead of merely insignificant and plodding?) Even when the grandmother belatedly turns out to be a horrible person roughly seventy or eighty minutes into the film, it's still in a very quiet, passive-aggressive kind of way. Maybe it was seeing the film in the context of a major film festival--where one expects to see, if not greatness then at least reckless ambitious (as Mike D'Angelo said of the films at Cannes, this is their shot at the Citizen Kane derby)--that made this such a disappointing experience, but even if you like the film on its untroubled, unimportant level, to call the guy a master is simply ridiculous.


Scott later made special mention of Still Walking's excellence in his Cherry Blossoms review.

If Still Walking is disqualified as being masterful because of its small scale, quiet demeanor, classical technique, and near-universal critical admiration, then so probably is Tokyo Story.Well, Tokyo Story isn't my favorite Ozu film (I Was Born, But..., Late Spring, Early Summer, Early Spring, Tokyo Twilight and Floating Weeds all have a bit more juice and drama), but I would, first of all, dispute the idea that any of Ozu's late films are classical in their technique. He had a very singular way of framing a shot and cutting together a sequence that's like no other filmmaker in the history of cinema, and the crux of Bordwell's book on Ozu is that even self-conscious Ozu imitators (like Hirokazu, although the book was written in 1988) haven't pursued this aesthetic as rigorously as Ozu did. Furthermore, Tokyo Story, like a lot of Ozu films, is really an angry movie, even if it doesn't qualify as a social protest film (which is more the case with I Was Born, But..., Early Spring and Tokyo Twilight). Unlike Still Walking, it's not a film that could ever be mistaken for a light crowd-pleaser--although he did make a number of those, as well.

[baby doll]

The great thing about using 'divisiveness' as a measure of quality is that you don't have to have seen the film in question to make a case for it. Isn't cinema wonderful?What I'm more curious about is why you felt to you had to see Transformers 2.

[Boner M]

What I'm more curious about is why you felt to you had to see Transformers 2.
Dragged along by a friend; got in for free.

[Qrazy]

Lilith (Rossen) - Jean Seberg is great in this. She plays a modern day Lilith in an insane asylum, plying her seductive skills on fellow patient (a young) Peter Fonda as well as Warren Beatty who works at the asylum. Most of these patients are fairly well adjusted. This isn't exactly Cuckoo's Nest or The Ninth Configuration when it comes to an exploration of psychosis, but that's not really what the film is about. It's much more about the relationship between Beatty and Seaberg as he succumbs to her charms. The film sports a beautiful image of Seaberg kissing her own reflection while wading in a river.

The principle cast is excellent (also a solid cameo at the start of his career by Gene Hackman) and the film is well shot with a few experimental flourishes (both visually and with the sound design). Some of the scenes and character histories are a bit half baked. The ending doesn't have quite the punch Rossen seems to be looking for, but as it was his last film I'll cut him some slack.

[Spinal]

I wouldn't necessarily qualify A Taste of Cherry as non-uplifting.

I wouldn't qualify it as great.

[Sycophant]

But really, who the hell wants to see yet another quiet, unassuming family drama of any nationality?

Me.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Lilith (Rossen) - Jean Seberg is great in this. She plays a modern day Lilith in an insane asylum, plying her seductive skills on fellow patient (a young) Peter Fonda as well as Warren Beatty who works at the asylum. Most of these patients are fairly well adjusted. This isn't exactly Cuckoo's Nest or The Ninth Configuration when it comes to an exploration of psychosis, but that's not really what the film is about. It's much more about the relationship between Beatty and Seaberg as he succumbs to her charms. The film sports a beautiful image of Seaberg kissing her own reflection while wading in a river.

The principle cast is excellent (also a solid cameo at the start of his career by Gene Hackman) and the film is well shot with a few experimental flourishes (both visually and with the sound design). Some of the scenes and character histories are a bit half baked. The ending doesn't have quite the punch Rossen seems to be looking for, but as it was his last film I'll cut him some slack.
I've been wanting to see this for a while, I hadn't really heard much about it. I'm happy to hear it'll probably be worth my time.

[Qrazy]

I've been wanting to see this for a while, I hadn't really heard much about it. I'm happy to hear it'll probably be worth my time.

It's nothing exceptional but it's definitely worthwhile.

[B-side]

Apparently a Myst clone? I'd play it.

On that note, where's a good place to start for Trier? The last time I was at my local video store I noticed copies of both Breaking the Waves and Dancer in the Dark. All the Antichrist talk lately around Cannes, etc., got me interested in finally checking out his work.

Breaking the Waves is the perfect place to start. Dancer in the Dark is a great film too, so it's just as good a place to start.

[MacGuffin]

Yeah, shockingly enough, I still need to see Breaking the Waves.

[Qrazy]

Breaking the Waves is the perfect place to start. Dancer in the Dark is a great film too, so it's just as good a place to start.

As I don't like either I'm going to rec The Element of Crime instead because I think it might end up having more in common with Antichrist.

[Spinal]

As I don't like either I'm going to rec The Element of Crime instead because I think it might end up having more in common with Antichrist.

It really doesn't have much in common with any of Trier's other films, so that would be a weird place to start unless you were committed to going through them chronologically.

[Qrazy]

It really doesn't have much in common with any of Trier's other films, so that would be a weird place to start unless you were committed to going through them chronologically.

I still maintain that it's probably more like Antichrist than his other films (excepting the short Nocturne). Firstly because it's not ensconced in a Dogme aesthetic and secondly it has a nightmarish quality that I'm guessing Antichrist shares.

[MacGuffin]

I still maintain that it's probably more like Antichrist than his other films (excepting the short Nocturne). Firstly because it's not ensconced in a Dogme aesthetic and secondly it has a nightmarish quality that I'm guessing Antichrist shares.

Soori, is that you?

[Qrazy]

Soori, is that you?

There's a difference between gauging the value of a film one hasn't seen and guessing at it's atmospheric and aesthetic approach after witnessing trailers and reviews.

If I'm wrong than I'm wrong which is why I said probably, but something tells me I'm right.

[MacGuffin]

There's a difference between gauging the value of a film one hasn't seen and guessing at it's atmospheric and aesthetic approach after witnessing trailers and reviews.

I'm just kidding around, dude.

[MacGuffin]

Does anybody know what the hell this means?

Helpful Hints:
– Maximum 10 sessions for CD and 10
multi border for DVD are supported.
– For DVD-R and DVD-RW multi border,
only fi nalised discs are supported.

It's from the Phillips DVP5990/5992 manuals. Is this saying that you could essentially play ten multi region DVDs before the player locks back into Region 1 mode, or am I reading that totally wrong? Thinking about buying a DVD player, so I'm looking at its manual and just wanting to make sure.

[Qrazy]

I'm just kidding around, dude.

http://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/arsenal/teamrocs/bert/crazy_harry.jpg

Don't test me man. I will bury this place!

[Sycophant]

Does anybody know what the hell this means?

Helpful Hints:
– Maximum 10 sessions for CD and 10
multi border for DVD are supported.
– For DVD-R and DVD-RW multi border,
only fi nalised discs are supported.

It's from the Phillips DVP5990/5992 manuals. Is this saying that you could essentially play ten multi region DVDs before the player locks back into Region 1 mode, or am I reading that totally wrong? Thinking about buying a DVD player, so I'm looking at its manual and just wanting to make sure.

Sessions can refer to how many times a CD can be burned. If I'm reading this correctly, this means for reading CDs, this player can one that has had up to ten burning sessions. I'm not sure, but I think "multi border" is the same thing, but for DVDs. When you've done your final burning sessions, you tell your burning program to "finalize" this disc. So that's saying that it can only read DVD-Rs and DVD-RWs that have been burned as multisession/multiborder if they've actually been finalized.

Most players don't support multisession discs of any kind.

[MacGuffin]

Sessions can refer to how many times a CD can be burned. If I'm reading this correctly, this means for reading CDs, this player can one that has had up to ten burning sessions. I'm not sure, but I think "multi border" is the same thing, but for DVDs. When you've done your final burning sessions, you tell your burning program to "finalize" this disc. So that's saying that it can only read DVD-Rs and DVD-RWs that have been burned as multisession/multiborder if they've actually been finalized.

Most players don't support multisession discs of any kind.

Wait, so this has nothing to do with DVD regions or how many times I could play, say, region 2 DVDs?

[Sycophant]

Wait, so this has nothing to do with DVD regions or how many times I could play, say, region 2 DVDs?

Nope. Just burned media restrictions.

[MacGuffin]

Nope. Just burned media restrictions.

Yay, I was worried there for a little while.

[B-side]

I have Short Cuts to watch today. I should be getting Kar-Wai's Happy Together and My Night at Maud's for the weekend.

[kuehnepips]

...Kar-Wai's Happy Together ....

My fav. WKW.

I'll watch Death Race (2008) this weekend. I'm serious.

[Ezee E]

The Butcher and Bergman Island for me.

[balmakboor]

I started boycotting horror film remakes last year. It's made me happier.

Although I did buckle and see Halloween, but that was mostly because I'm a fan of Rob Zombie. And I thought it fascinating stuff, even though it clearly was not that good of a movie.

I thought it clearly was a very good movie. It surprised me how good and absorbing it was.

[Raiders]

For Von Trier, I recommend starting with Epidemic. It's an awful movie and should sufficiently lower your expectations for all his other movies so you can enjoy them as much as possible.

[D_Davis]

I thought it clearly was a very good movie. It surprised me how good and absorbing it was.

The first half, up until the remake part, is incredible. I also love how huge and menacing the new Michael Meyers is; he has a very frightening presence. The second half is OK, but I enjoyed the biopic part a lot more. It's a really well made film, and I'm stoked to see part 2.

[Ezee E]

I thought the remake was awful, mostly for the ridiculous acting from Michael Myers' family.

[Qrazy]

For Von Trier, I recommend starting with Epidemic. It's an awful movie and should sufficiently lower your expectations for all his other movies so you can enjoy them as much as possible.

Did you not like The Element of Crime? I thought it had some problems but not my usual Trier problems. It was also very well shot and had an excellent atmosphere.

[Rowland]

Regarding the theatrical cut of the Halloween remake, I was most taken by Zombie's ability to make his violence really ugly and visceral, and his thematic reconfiguration of Halloween into a biopic melodrama is, if nothing else, certainly audacious, mounted with a flair for kineticism and expressive flourishes cannily employed as dramatic punctuation, but it never coheres into an altogether satisfying piece from either a thematic or emotional perspective. In the end, for all its surface excitement and flirting with auteurist ambition, it just kinda sits there. McDowell was a pretty uninspired Loomis as well.

[Dead & Messed Up]

The first half, up until the remake part, is incredible. I also love how huge and menacing the new Michael Meyers is; he has a very frightening presence. The second half is OK, but I enjoyed the biopic part a lot more. It's a really well made film, and I'm stoked to see part 2.

If Zombie would've taken the first-half devolution of Myers and made that the entire focus of the film, I think it could've been a real winner.

[D_Davis]

If Zombie would've taken the first-half devolution of Myers and made that the entire focus of the film, I think it could've been a real winner.

Totally.

I absolutely love the imagery of Meyers in his cell with all those masks.

[megladon8]

I agree. The idea of Myers' fascination with masks was wonderful, and I wanted to learn more about that.

Zombie's commentary on the unrated DVD is probably one of my favorite commentary tracks on any film. He's an intelligent guy, and very humble. He talks about how so much of the film just didn't work the way he wanted it to, and how many scenes were utter failures because his concept was beyond both the budget and his own skill.

I'm looking forward to seeing what he has in store in H2. I think his passion shows in all three of his films, and they're more interesting to watch than a lot of today's other horror cinema.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Weekend
Food Inc.
The Damned
Lola (1961)

[Ezee E]

I'll definitely say that Zombie has talent. There are some great pieces in The Devil's Rejects. But in that movie, as well as Halloween, he has his actors say some stupid stuff. He's a pretty awful writer, and he's got to keep his wife out of his films as well.

[Qrazy]

Lola (1961)

I'm thinking you'll love this.

[Spinal]

Weekend possibilities:

wacky Russian Hamlet
Margot at the Wedding
Girls Rock!

[Philosophe_rouge]

I'm thinking you'll love this.
So do I :D I've loved every Demy so far.

[Qrazy]

So do I :D I've loved every Demy so far.

Also you might want to give Don't Make Waves (Mackendrick) a look. It gave me a Man's Favorite Sport or Gentlemen Prefer Blondes vibe although I prefer it to both. It's a light film but it's well shot with very solid SFX and quality comedy. It stars Tony Curtis and I know you like Some Like it Hot a lot so I figure your affections for that film might extend to him as well.

Not sure how easy it is to get a hold of, I got it on Karagarga.

[Bosco B Thug]

If Zombie would've taken the first-half devolution of Myers and made that the entire focus of the film, I think it could've been a real winner. This is a surprisingly popular sentiment...

Sure there was a lot to admire about the first half of Halloween (along with a lot to shake your head at), but I for one was eagerly, impatiently awaiting the slasher flick portion of the film and was glad I got it, and glad with what I got (although everything with big Michael before he actually gets to Haddonfield is pretty lame).

[megladon8]

I still don't like that Michael was a giant.

But, different interpretations and whatnot. I know many love the giant, Herculean Michael Myers.

[Pop Trash]

Went to see it with a couple guys from work.


So what did they think of it? Did you all agree it sucked or were they like "that was awesome!" while you awkwardly said "eh it was OK?"

[Derek]

So what did they think of it? Did you all agree it sucked or were they like "that was awesome!" while you awkwardly said "eh it was OK?"

One of the guys thought the first one was crap and that this one was slightly better. The other liked the first and thought this one was okay, basically more of the same. So yeah, I was able to talk shit about it immediately.

[Qrazy]

So what did they think of it? Did you all agree it sucked or were they like "that was awesome!" while you awkwardly said "eh it was OK?"

Yeah, it tends to go better that way. With Slumdog Millionaire I went for broke and spewed vitriol all over the place. Everyone was fairly quiet after that. Much easier to feign mild enthusiasm.

[Bosco B Thug]

I still don't like that Michael was a giant.

But, different interpretations and whatnot. I know many love the giant, Herculean Michael Myers. I don't know about him being a giant, either, but I'm still really lovin' his new "vagrant" look.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/Bosco_Von/halloween_2_2.jpg

[Bosco B Thug]

Yeah, it tends to go better that way. With Slumdog Millionaire I went for broke and spewed vitriol all over the place. Everyone was fairly quiet after that. Much easier to feign mild enthusiasm. Totally. 'Slumdog' was such a universal success among even discerning moviegoers, it was just really unpleasant bagging on it. Quietness is exactly what happens, and I also got identical cowed expressions from an astonishing number of people.

[Derek]

Yeah, it tends to go better that way. With Slumdog Millionaire I went for broke and spewed vitriol all over the place. Everyone was fairly quiet after that. Much easier to feign mild enthusiasm.

I was expecting this to be the case as it often is, but the one guy has pretty good taste and was trashing the first Transformers and the new Terminator movie, so I could let the vitriol spew. :)

[MacGuffin]

Martyrs (Pascal Laugier, 2007) - 6

Thoughts?

[Pop Trash]

Totally. 'Slumdog' was such a universal success among even discerning moviegoers, it was just really unpleasant bagging on it. Quietness is exactly what happens, and I also got identical cowed expressions from an astonishing number of people.

Exactly, thankfully I didn't totally hate Slumdog Millionaire, so me going "it was OK" was actually correct. My mom loved it, so she thought I was being a giant snob by not declaring it the best movie of the year and by picking at the screenplay problems I had with it. It's always odd having to navigate around conversations about super popular movies that are out that you didn't think were all that great.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Exactly, thankfully I didn't totally hate Slumdog Millionaire, so me going "it was OK" was actually correct. My mom loved it, so she thought I was being a giant snob by not declaring it the best movie of the year and by picking at the screenplay problems I had with it. It's always odd having to navigate around conversations about super popular movies that are out that you didn't think were all that great.
This sounds just like my mother, she LOVED Slumdog and couldn't fathom why someone wouldn't.

[Bosco B Thug]

Thoughts? Soon hopefully. Feel a bit in a thought-writing lull. I will say my reactions to this film felt a bit similar to my reaction to Irreversible in both the good and the bad, and I even came to the decision that Irreversible should be raised to 6.5 because this movie was getting a 6.

It's a surprisingly (shockingly) epic and ambitious film that I felt dropped the ball a bit in the end with

the film deciding to sum up the secret organization's purposes with their desire to "see beyond," when I had thought their purposes were grounded in modifying their perceptions of the real, material world. Didn't like the CGI sequence portraying her new sight into the beyond, it's kind of meaningless.

I thought the twenty minutes of awfulness that is the girl's imprisonment was really well done, so no repeat of our disagreement over Irreversible's "awful parts."

It's a very well-made film. Maybe nothing stunning, but it's certainly not artless.

I loved the understated lesbianism angle, and the insinuations of social worthlessness that is implied in the phone conversation with the mother, a worthlessness proved wrong in the divine selflessness that we eventually see she wholly embodies.

So there's a lot going on in the film, even if it's a bit overstated sometimes.

I was going to come on here immediately after watching it and post something along the lines of: ":eek: Jesus Christ." so the film definitely had an effect. Those photographs, especially the first time we see them on the walls... Holy crap is all I can say. I think my heart stopped at one point.

We'll see if I have any more to say about the film later. Not quite sure.

[Pop Trash]

This sounds just like my mother, she LOVED Slumdog and couldn't fathom why someone wouldn't.

I think my mom and your mom should be friends and go shopping while talking about how wonderful Slumdog Millionaire was. :pritch:

[Qrazy]

Weekend (some of these):

Devil's Advocate
Of Freaks and Men
Becket
The Sand Pebbles
Time Regained
Marketa Lazarova
Love Streams
Double Suicide
La Luna
Black Rain

[trotchky]

Sweet Movie is like experiencing bipolar disorder all at once; not since I saw Visitor Q have I seen a movie that is as simultaneously erotic and repellent as this one. Sweet Movie, however, has a few things Visitor Q lacks: a ferocious sense of purpose, a hilarious sense of humor, and really nice looking visuals (the first scene has a color palette that Paul Thomas Anderson "paid homage to" in Boogie Nights's porno shoot scene) . As many erections as Sweet Movie gave me, it remains a piece of social satire that is acute, nuanced, and flat-out ballsy, and when it's not being hilarious it's being hilarious and disturbing. A better comparison, then, might be Lindsay Anderson's also-godly O Lucky Man!. I always knew I should buy WR - Mysteries of the Organism some day, but who knew that day would come so soon?

[balmakboor]

I always knew I should buy WR - Mysteries of the Organism some day, but who knew that day would come so soon?

Btw, I loaned out my copy of WR to a friend. He loved it and has since been talking about it constantly. He knows two women who are planning a documentary on issues surrounding sexuality and he talked them into watching it as well.

[origami_mustache]

I thought Boy was great. Anyone have Nagisa Oshima recommendations besides Cruel Story of Youth?

[MadMan]

I, too, thought that the first half of Zombie's Halloween was the best thing about the remake. Even though what made the original so great is how mysterious Myers' rampage really is. He just does it because he's pure evil. With the remake, its all about the sister angle. But I don't really mind that either, considering how much I liked the original sequel to the original film.

[Qrazy]

I thought Boy was great. Anyone have Nagisa Oshima recommendations besides Cruel Story of Youth?

Derek's Oshima Thread. (http://www.match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=2015)

[origami_mustache]

Derek's Oshima Thread. (http://www.match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=2015)

ty kind sir...I was unaware of the existence of this great thread.

[trotchky]

Guys, guys. I just realized something. Eyes Wide Shut's opening line is "Honey, have you seen my wallet?" and its closing line is "Fuck." What does it MEAN?!

[Qrazy]

She put his wallet in her vagina?

[chrisnu]

Guys, guys. I just realized something. Eyes Wide Shut's opening line is "Honey, have you seen my wallet?" and its closing line is "Fuck." What does it MEAN?!
It's a critique of America's obsession with money and sex, respectively.

[Grouchy]

It means Kubrick knew about 9/11.
For all I know he filmed it right after the moon landing.

I don't remember when did I mention that, looking at Sidney Lumet's filmography on IMDb, I was surprised by how prolific he was and how the bulk of his work is rarely mentioned as "great". I knew some other gem had to be in there, and The Hill proved me right. It's a fantastic thriller set in a British prisoner camp for war criminals. Sean Connery headlines the cast because he's the biggest star but, in true Lumet spirit, it's actually an ensemble piece and the one actor who steals the camera's attention is Ossie Davis, specially when he goes progressively "nuts" and violent with the officers towards the end. The Hill is expertly shot, and the camera is always standing (or moving) where it needs to be for the audience to feel the blows applied to the characters as if they're real. Like in 12 Angry Men, I suspect Lumet started closing the shots and making them purposefully more "awkward" to convey the growing heat and violence among the characters but, at least on my first viewing of this, I was too inmersed into it to really notice. The ending has to be seen to be believed. If I'd seen this on a theater I'd still be cursing my mouth off ten blocks from the door.

This sort of stuff should be dissected in film class instead of beating us over the head with goddamn Chantal Ackerman.

[origami_mustache]

Most people I know really liked Transformers and think I'm "weird" for thinking otherwise...sigh I need to meet some new people :/

At least I have match-cut.

[Watashi]

Welcome to outside of the internet.

Population: Everyone Else

[MacGuffin]

Buffalo '66 is an invigorating piece of well-realized Americana. I originally had written a lot more, but it can basically be boiled down to this: I liked the formative experiments; the overhead shots, the picture-in-picture, the aspect ratios (which coincidentally, showed up in Tetro). I also liked the approach it took to trying to show us a different side of a very disturbed character (Billy), while at the same time, adding depth to this character with everyone he encountered. The movie also has a lot to say about America's obsession with sports (obviously there's the title, but the movie could not have taken place in any other country). Anyway, I loved it, but I still think Gallo gave a better performance in Tetro and The Brown Bunny may be even better than this.

[MacGuffin]

For all I know he filmed it right after the moon landing.

I deleted this post because I didn't think anyone would get the reference. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't it on Match Cut where people were claiming directors knew about 9/11 happening or something? I think I'm way off, which is why I decided to delete the post.

[soitgoes...]

Winter Light (Ingmar Bergman, 1962) 3.5/5
Bah!

[MacGuffin]

Bah!

It's a great movie (technically and performance-wise), but it just seems like such a bleak film to sit through for basically the exact same thing I understood perfectly well with The Virgin Spring. I'm not done with Bergman yet. He's consistently impressed me.

[Qrazy]

I don't remember when did I mention that, looking at Sidney Lumet's filmography on IMDb, I was surprised by how prolific he was and how the bulk of his work is rarely mentioned as "great".

Yeah I think he's very good and I look forward to seeing some of his lesser spoken about work.

Seen:

12 Angry Men
The Pawnbroker
Fail-Safe
Serpico
Dog Day Afternoon
Equus
Prince of the City
The Verdict

Equus is the only one I did not like. The Pawnbroker and Prince of the City are lesser but still solid work and the rest are good to great.

Looking Forward to:

Stage Struck
The Fugitive Kind
Long Day's Journey Into Night
The Hill
The Deadly Affair
The Sea Gull
Last of the Mobile Hot Shots
The Anderson Tapes
Murder on the Orient Express
Q&A

[MacGuffin]

Disclaimer: I have no problem with movies that are bleak, it's when the movie is bleak and I feel the director perfectly established the fact that he is losing hope in God in the four or five other movies I watched by him that I begin to get a little irritated. It is a great movie, though, and I liked the look of the movie (I don't know, maybe I prefer Sven Nykvist as an artist to Bergman) as well as the performances by Gunnar Björnstrand, Max von Sydow and Gunnel Lindbolm. I didn't really care for Ingrid Thulin's slightly over-the-top performance in this movie. I didn't feel it was subtle enough, though I applaud the movie for not being as heavy-handed as The Virgin Spring. If I was going to rate the movies to a T using the 10 with halves scale, I'd say The Virgin Spring 7, Winter Light 7.5.

[soitgoes...]

It's a great movie (technically and performance-wise), but it just seems like such a bleak film to sit through for basically the exact same thing I understood perfectly well with The Virgin Spring. I'm not done with Bergman yet. He's consistently impressed me.Well considering faith plays as the main theme in most of his films, especially his pre-Persona films, Bergman just might not jive with you. He's almost always bleak, he is Scandinavian after all. Maybe Smiles of a Summer Night might be a better Bergman film for you. It is lighter than most of his films, and at the same time very good (though Spinal will disagree).

Still, I'm glad you're giving him a try.

[MacGuffin]

Edit: I was prepared to give the movie a 4.5 about thirty minutes in, a 4 sixty minutes in, and then settled on a 3.5 after it was over. I don't know if that says anything to you, soitgoes..., but I think it may have something to do with the dynamics between the priest and the woman who loved him, but whom he did not love in return. Something there irked me.

[MacGuffin]

Well considering faith plays as the main theme in most of his films, especially his pre-Persona films, Bergman just might not jive with you. He's almost always bleak, he is Scandinavian after all. Maybe Smiles of a Summer Night might be a better Bergman film for you. It is lighter than most of his films, and at the same time very good (though Spinal will disagree).

Still, I'm glad you're giving him a try.

Yeah, perhaps you are right, but I'm still determined to watch a few more at least, and I also think it's worth-noting that 3.5/5 essentially means "great" on my scale, so I did really like the movie. I don't have a problem with movies that are bleak either, as I said above (I mean, Bruno Dumont is one of my favorite directors, if we forget about Flandres). I thought Spinal liked this movie?

[Qrazy]

I also like Smiles of a Summer Night but I'd say check out Hour of the Wolf or Fanny and Alexander for your next venture.

[MacGuffin]

I also like Smiles of a Summer Night but I'd say check out Hour of the Wolf or Fanny and Alexander for your next venture.

Yeah, I think I may watch Hour of the Wolf next even though I think I said it'd be Cries and Whispers. I've heard Hour of the Wolf is a horror movie, which seems like it may be perfect as it could potentially cater to precisely the things I like about Bergman movies, especially if Sven Nykvist is the cinematographer.

[soitgoes...]

I thought Spinal liked this movie?Smiles of a Summer Night? No, he's not much of a fan, but he's wrong. I forgive him though, because of his overall Bergman love.

[soitgoes...]

Disclaimer: I have no problem with movies that are bleak, it's when the movie is bleak and I feel the director perfectly established the fact that he is losing hope in God in the four or five other movies I watched by him that I begin to get a little irritated. It is a great movie, though, and I liked the look of the movie (I don't know, maybe I prefer Sven Nykvist as an artist to Bergman) as well as the performances by Gunnar Björnstrand, Max von Sydow and Gunnel Lindbolm. I didn't really care for Ingrid Thulin's slightly over-the-top performance in this movie. I didn't feel it was subtle enough, though I applaud the movie for not being as heavy-handed as The Virgin Spring. If I was going to rate the movies to a T using the 10 with halves scale, I'd say The Virgin Spring 7, Winter Light 7.5.


Yeah, I think I may watch Hour of the Wolf next even though I think I said it'd be Cries and Whispers. I've heard Hour of the Wolf is a horror movie, which seems like it may be perfect as it could potentially cater to precisely the things I like about Bergman movies, especially if Sven Nykvist is the cinematographer.

This Nykvist stuff is a bit weird to me. Yes, he is obviously talented, but it's not like Bergman's films weren't striking without Nykvist. Bergman's earlier, non-Nykvist work has much the same look as his later Nykvist stuff. That tells me that Bergman had much more of a say in how he wanted his films filmed than you're implying.

[MacGuffin]

This Nykvist stuff is a bit weird to me. Yes, he is obviously talented, but it's not like Bergman's films weren't striking without Nykvist. Bergman's earlier, non-Nykvist work has much the same look as his later Nykvist stuff. That tells me that Bergman had much more of a say in how he wanted his films filmed than you're implying.

I do not claim to be the be-all, know-all on Bergman, so if this is indeed the case, please forgive me. I just was always under the assumption that the cinematographer was in charge of lighting (or, in the very least, telling the director which lighting arrangements would best be suitable for the shot that the director is trying to get) and operating the camera. If the things that you are saying are true, then the praise probably goes to Nykvist and Bergman equally, if not more to Bergman, although perhaps I was a bit biased in my views, because I do not believe I have actually seen a Bergman movie with Nykvist (although, maybe I have; I'm not sure).

[origami_mustache]

Welcome to outside of the internet.

Population: Everyone Else

where are these intertube wiz kids?

[soitgoes...]

I do not claim to be the be-all, know-all on Bergman, so if this is indeed the case, please forgive me. I just was always under the assumption that the cinematographer was in charge of lighting (or, in the very least, telling the director which lighting arrangements would best be suitable for the shot that the director is trying to get) and operating the camera. If the things that you are saying are true, then the praise probably goes to Nykvist and Bergman equally, if not more to Bergman, although perhaps I was a bit biased in my views, because I do not believe I have actually seen a Bergman movie with Nykvist (although, maybe I have; I'm not sure).You've seen The Seventh Seal? That isn't Nykvist. I don't want to slight Nykvist. He is obviously talented. I'm sure his input in the look of the films he worked on are noted by Bergman, and used by Bergman. I'm just saying, as the director, Bergman should be held most responsible for what the end product is. After all outside of a Tarkovsky film, a Polanski film, and What's Eating Gilbert Grape? has anyone seen a Nykvist filmed non-Bergman film?

[MacGuffin]

You've seen The Seventh Seal? That isn't Nykvist. I don't want to slight Nykvist. He is obviously talented. I'm sure his input in the look of the films he worked on are noted by Bergman, and used by Bergman. I'm just saying, as the director, Bergman should be held most responsible for what the end product is. After all outside of a Tarkovsky film, a Polanski film, and What's Eating Gilbert Grape? has anyone seen a Nykvist filmed non-Bergman film?

Oh, yeah, I've seen The Seventh Seal, but not for a while.

[soitgoes...]

After all outside of a Tarkovsky film, a Polanski film, and What's Eating Gilbert Grape? has anyone seen a Nykvist filmed non-Bergman film?Of note, that is.

[origami_mustache]

IFC's 50 greatest trailers of all time.
(http://www.ifc.com/news/2009/06/50-greatest-trailers.php)
some odd choices...but stirring up controversy is what these lists are best at.

Seriously cannot believe Godard's Contempt trailer isn't even on it...or any Godard trailer for that matter....seems like it's limited to English language films although I don't think it mentions that.

[The Mike]

Bah. Y'all are crazy regarding Zombie's Halloween. What they did to Michael Myers is the equivalent of a remake of Jaws that spends an hour with the shark and his underwater family having precious moments about why he can't stop eating wanna-be pirates.

[soitgoes...]

Oh, yeah, I've seen The Seventh Seal, but not for a while.

Have you seen Wild Strawberries yet? That one's great too. It's more about old age and coming to terms with not accomplishing anything of value in one's life. It has silent film director Victor Sjöström as the lead, and he does fantastic.

[MacGuffin]

Have you seen Wild Strawberries yet? That one's great too. It's more about old age and coming to terms with not accomplishing anything of value in one's life. It has silent film director Victor Sjöström as the lead, and he does fantastic.

No, I haven't. I will have to see that one sometime, though.

[Spinal]

Smiles of a Summer Night? No, he's not much of a fan, but he's wrong. I forgive him though, because of his overall Bergman love.

To be fair, I've admitted myself that I'm probably wrong. :)

[Spinal]

IFC's 50 greatest trailers of all time.
(http://www.ifc.com/news/2009/06/50-greatest-trailers.php)

Strange Days! Excellent choice. Loved that trailer.

[trotchky]

More thoughts on Sweet Movie:

I thought it was really hilarious and like Austin Powers in its use of visual puns, like the penis montage at the end of Austin Powers. However, this movie, Sweet Movie, used sex related visual puns in a much more transgressive and pointed way and I felt it was pretty heavily self-critical in the second half.

Spoilers, but they don't really matter.

I think the second half really rips on Communism much more than Capitalism; I felt the point of the commune was to criticize the communist movement as it existed in the early '70s, by showing these people who have taken a particular doctrine to its extreme and lived in deluded, self-imposed squalor because of that.

This could be universally established already (haven't read any lit. on the movie), but, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the commune meant to take place in a metaphorical "future" where the Potemkin Sailor and the Anarchist Woman have fucked and produced ideological offspring, represented by the people in the commune? And the squalor they actively embrace is basically what is being criticized. And their indoctrination to it. The whole boat thing is a metaphor for communism's literal progress in soviet nations and ideological progress in the west.

As for The Queen Virgin, she ended up there through a series of things that happen to her, each with her going lower and lower on the economic latter, after she rejects her husband's degrading sexual fetish.

Lots of obvious implications there, etc.

The first part, the footage of victims of Nazi experiments being uncovered, "We must always remember these things, and never speak of them," or whatever, yeah, it's interesting that that is used as a metaphor for both America and Communism up to a certain point, when offspring "SLASH" another generation is conjured up, hence the baby being physically injured news footage and the final shot being the the little children waking up wrapped in plastic on the beach. What will these children do next??

However, the sheer visceral joy of watching the movie is what I was most taken by.

[Qrazy]

You've seen The Seventh Seal? That isn't Nykvist. I don't want to slight Nykvist. He is obviously talented. I'm sure his input in the look of the films he worked on are noted by Bergman, and used by Bergman. I'm just saying, as the director, Bergman should be held most responsible for what the end product is. After all outside of a Tarkovsky film, a Polanski film, and What's Eating Gilbert Grape? has anyone seen a Nykvist filmed non-Bergman film?

# Crimes and Misdemeanors (1989) - Solid work.
# New York Stories (1989) (segment "Oedipus Wrecks") - Poor work.
# Another Woman (1988) - Mediocre work.
# The Unbearable Lightness of Being (1988) - Solid work.
# The Postman Always Rings Twice (1981) - Average work.
# Black Moon (1975) (director of photography) - Solid work.

[B-side]

Buffalo '66 is an invigorating piece of well-realized Americana. I originally had written a lot more, but it can basically be boiled down to this: I liked the formative experiments; the overhead shots, the picture-in-picture, the aspect ratios (which coincidentally, showed up in Tetro). I also liked the approach it took to trying to show us a different side of a very disturbed character (Billy), while at the same time, adding depth to this character with everyone he encountered. The movie also has a lot to say about America's obsession with sports (obviously there's the title, but the movie could not have taken place in any other country). Anyway, I loved it, but I still think Gallo gave a better performance in Tetro and The Brown Bunny may be even better than this.

Yeah, I really liked it, too. I don't wanna sound like "that guy", but was all that road footage really necessary? I understand it's more about mood and atmosphere than anything, but it got to be kinda excessive. Luckily, before it grated me too much, Bud got to Daisy's house and I was thoroughly engaged for the rest of the film and sufficiently blown away by the entire hotel sequence.

[Qrazy]

Have you seen Wild Strawberries yet? That one's great too.

It's alright. Pretty good.


It has silent film director Victor Sjöström as the lead, and he does fantastic.

Yeah, he does.

[soitgoes...]

# Crimes and Misdemeanors (1989) - Solid work.
Forgot about that one. Also Sleepless in Seattle, for whatever that is worth.

The point stands his success kinda seems tied to the quality of the directors he works with.

[Qrazy]

Forgot about that one. Also Sleepless in Seattle, for whatever that is worth.

The point stands his success kinda seems tied to the quality of the directors he works with.

I think they both deserve a lot of credit. It's hard to know with visuals. I believe Nykvist did have a rather revolutionary aesthetic but the two careers are inextricably tied together. Gunnar Fischer was also a quality DP.

[Qrazy]

I never realized that the guy who DP'd Terms of Endearment, The Verdict, Prince of the City, a bunch of other Lumet films and Speed... went on to direct Romeo Must Die, Exit Wounds, Cradle 2 the Grave and Doom.

WTF?

[Grouchy]

I deleted this post because I didn't think anyone would get the reference. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't it on Match Cut where people were claiming directors knew about 9/11 happening or something? I think I'm way off, which is why I decided to delete the post.
I've never heard that one before. I did hear the one about the televised moon landing being a fake shoot directed by Kubrick for the U.S. government as a way to win the Cold War.

Qrazy, watch The Hill inmediately. The Fugitive Kind is good too, but it's mostly Brando's show.

[Qrazy]

I've never heard that one before. I did hear the one about the televised moon landing being a fake shoot directed by Kubrick for the U.S. government as a way to win the Cold War.

Qrazy, watch The Hill inmediately. The Fugitive Kind is good too, but it's mostly Brando's show.

Will do.

---

On a Nykvist note I'd be very interested to see this adaptation of Siddhartha (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070689/) which he apparently DP'd.

[Mysterious Dude]

I actually don't think the cinematography for The Seventh Seal or Wild Strawberries is anywhere near as good as it is in the films photographed by Nykvist. There are moments that are very good, but overall, I find the lighting a lot less natural.

[Derek]

Bah. Y'all are crazy regarding Zombie's Halloween. What they did to Michael Myers is the equivalent of a remake of Jaws that spends an hour with the shark and his underwater family having precious moments about why he can't stop eating wanna-be pirates.

I've only seen the first 20-25 minutes, but I was wondering who cares about Michael Meyers being picked on as a kid. Apparently a lot of people...

[Mara]

I have to admit, I was quite surprised... and, indeed, impressed, with Kiss of the Spider Woman. It's one of those films that sets itself up to be one thing and then slowly unravels into something less simple and facile. The premise-- of the two prisoners trying to pass the interminable time-- becomes more deeply nuanced as the film progresses.

The original tension is I think one of gender relations, despite the fact that both the main characters are male. Luis is not only homosexual, but really transgendered-- he wants to be a woman and despises his own masculinity. He figures into all the stereotypes, both positive and negative, about women. He is sentimental and irrational. He is kind and gentle. He is motivated almost entirely by emotion. He is weak.

Valentin, on the other hand, is overwhelmingly masculine. He is cold and calculating, brave and ideal-driven, angry and proud. He wears his beard, his blood, and his dirt as a badge of honor, while Luis is forever grooming and cleaning himself.

This begins to play out in their fantasy-land, where Luis tells a story that means one thing to him-- the triumph and tragedy of love-- and quite another thing to Valentin, who sees it as political brainwashing. (Is it either? Is it both?) And it probably would have been a decent film if it had stopped there.

A few of the reviews I've skimmed about this film suggest that the two characters "change" each other. I don't think this is true. They are who they have always been. Luis is, in fact, strong. What seemingly makes him weak (his sentimentality, his gentleness) are actually his strengths. He is not becoming a man when he, without flinching, cleans the clothes and floor that Valentin soils while sick. He is, instead, being maternal. His femininity is like the science experiment we had to do in eighth grade, when we mixed corn starch and water-- fluid when at rest, but hard as a rock when under pressure.

Valentin doesn't soften while in prison. He does not become more gentle. Instead, we are slowly shown that part of being masculine is compassion.

And the final quarter of the film, which surprised me extremely, shows that either man can do great things, even when moved from opposite motivations... that political fervor and love are both potent passions.

This is one of those films that I wanted to rewatch immediately after seeing it. I think I need to see it again to sort out how I really feel about it.

[megladon8]

I'll have to see that one, Mara. Raul Julia played Valentin, right? I loved him. I think he could have made a killing in the voice-over market today.


Jen and I watched Donnie Darko last night. She hadn't seen it since it first came out, and hated it. The trailers had apparently sold it as a horror, and she was deeply disappointed.

However, she seemed to like it more this time around. And I still adore it. It really is one of the greatest looks at adolescent angst I have ever seen, and a very important movie in my "lifetime movie line".

Jen did point out a significant problem that I hadn't caught on to despite having seen it countless times and analyzing it from every direction...

...if Frank the Bunny was helping Donnie to save all these lives by taking him back in time to die when the jet engine hit his room, then why would Frank have bothered waking him up and getting him out of bed that night to begin with?

However, my explanation for this is that Frank (or whatever entity it was that took on the persona of Frank to communicate with Donnie) was giving Donnie a look at his "set path" and the opportunity to change it if he felt he wanted to.

Anyways, it's a wonderful movie, with one of the greatest soundtracks of all time.

[Mara]

I'll have to see that one, Mara. Raul Julia played Valentin, right? I loved him. I think he could have made a killing in the voice-over market today.

Did you notice I got all the way through my thoughts without mentioning how smoking hot Raul Julia was in the film? I'd like to think I'm growing as a person.

;)

[megladon8]

Did you notice I got all the way through my thoughts without mentioning how smoking hot Raul Julia was in the film? I'd like to think I'm growing a person.

;)


You're growing a person???

Is this what the kids are calling it these days?

:lol:

[Mara]

Err... oops.

[Qrazy]

I actually don't think the cinematography for The Seventh Seal or Wild Strawberries is anywhere near as good as it is in the films photographed by Nykvist. There are moments that are very good, but overall, I find the lighting a lot less natural.

Well yeah natural lighting is Nykvist's thing. I agree about Wild Strawberries. I thought I was enthusiastic about The Seventh Seal lighting but it's been 6 years so I can't be sure.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I've only seen the first 20-25 minutes, but I was wondering who cares about Michael Meyers being picked on as a kid. Apparently a lot of people...

It's not that. The first hour or so showed Zombie clearly in his element, finding a fresh dynamic with the material. Meyers was clearly fucked up from the beginning, but it's nice to see him retreat further and further into madness.

And I don't take the film as canon or anything. It's just another way of looking at a cultural icon.

[Grouchy]

Mara, the novel by Manuel Puig is one of my favorite things I ever read. In fact, anything by Puig is worth your time. An anomaly in my country's literature, but one of the greatest.

I haven't seen the movie but I'll get around to it.

[Mara]

Mara, the novel by Manuel Puig is one of my favorite things I ever read. In fact, anything by Puig is worth your time. An anomaly in my country's literature, but one of the greatest.

I'm actually trying to bookmooch it. We'll see...

[lovejuice]

Mara, the novel by Manuel Puig is one of my favorite things I ever read. In fact, anything by Puig is worth your time. An anomaly in my country's literature, but one of the greatest.

I haven't seen the movie but I'll get around to it.
if i ever finish my top 100 book thread, spider-woman will be really high on the list.

i'm interested, why he's "anomaly?" care to explain more?

[B-side]

I think Happy Together might be my favorite Kar-Wai so far. It's so wonderfully expressive.

[trotchky]

One remarkable thing I want to add about Sweet Movie while I'm still coherent enough to do so: the last ~25 minutes are some of the most hauntingly tragic I've seen, and for the film to accomplish that all through metaphor, well, we're talking about some Synecdoche, New York-caliber shit right there. It's often funny and sad at the same time and for the same reason. Few films can lay claim to that.