View Full Version : 28 Film Discussion Threads Later
D_Davis
10-21-2008, 02:07 AM
I wish and wish and wish Night of the Creeps could hit DVD.
Yeah, it's just crazy that this film isn't on DVD.
Grouchy
10-21-2008, 02:10 AM
Yeah, I revisited Monster Squad this weekend, and remembered how much I love it quickly. I never realized it was co-written by Shane Black until this time, but you can definitely hear it. :lol:
Fred Dekker was great too. I wish and wish and wish Night of the Creeps could hit DVD.
Shane Black? Yeah, that makes sense! Mainly the dialogue.
I didn't know who Fred Dekker was until now. Robocop 3 jumped the shark badly, though.
EDIT: Re-watched Pink Flamingos today in class. That guy with the asshole... It haunts my dreams. He's definitively worse than the turd munching.
The Mike
10-21-2008, 02:36 AM
I didn't know who Fred Dekker was until now. Robocop 3 jumped the shark badly, though.
Oh, most definitely. :lol:
But, Night of the Creeps and Monster Squad might be the best horror comedy duo of the '80's. And, his Tales from the Crypt episode is one of my all-time favorites from the series (mostly due to an "80's hot" Teri Hatcher).
megladon8
10-21-2008, 03:16 AM
Pumpkinhead is great. I, for one, would like to see Winston direct again.
He died earlier this year.
Grouchy
10-21-2008, 04:06 AM
Oh, most definitely. :lol:
But, Night of the Creeps and Monster Squad might be the best horror comedy duo of the '80's. And, his Tales from the Crypt episode is one of my all-time favorites from the series (mostly due to an "80's hot" Teri Hatcher).
I'll try to rent Night of the Creeps. I'm almost positive my cult video store carries it on VHS, but I've almost completely lost my ability to watch stuff on tape.
He died earlier this year.
Damn. I remember now.
MadMan
10-21-2008, 04:34 AM
If I can ever get my hands on a VHS copy of Night of the Creeps, I will be quite happy.
SirNewt
10-21-2008, 04:40 AM
Ah yes, The Running Man. Gloriously cheesy, quite funny in some parts, and overall entertaining even if most (actually, all of) the film's themes are undeveloped and not explored further. Still I guess the film must be noted for calling the whole human game show craze that would happen starting with Survivor in the 21st century. I guess it deserves some points for that. Oh and for having Arnuld, naturally.
It's just this epic construct in my imagination.
I remember seeing a good portion of it on television while no one but my brother was around. The concept seemed so cool, yet as a child I had no patience for film or even television (I was always lost at the commercials and would begin some other entertainment that wasn't interrupted every ten minutes) so I didn't finish it. It was one of the first R rated films I saw though so it instantly became mythic, like Rambo: First Blood. Heh, now Rambo might struggle to get a PG-13 rating.
Anyway the film was regularly broadcast on Friday and Saturday television later on. A second viewing of the film is probably my first memory of indignation at human exploitation. (actually, I'm sure there was some Disney film that instilled this first)
MacGuffin
10-21-2008, 05:12 AM
I am going to in the next weekend hopefully watch John Carpenter's Halloween, I think. I am also going to probably consider giving his The Thing another try regardless of a somewhat negative first viewing. It feels like a movie I should like, and that said, I am going into it with slightly higher hopes even though I didn't like it a first time.
Dead & Messed Up
10-21-2008, 05:21 AM
It's just this epic construct in my imagination.
I remember seeing a good portion of it on television while no one but my brother was around. The concept seemed so cool, yet as a child I had no patience for film or even television (I was always lost at the commercials and would begin some other entertainment that wasn't interrupted every ten minutes) so I didn't finish it. It was one of the first R rated films I saw though so it instantly became mythic, like Rambo: First Blood. Heh, now Rambo might struggle to get a PG-13 rating.
Yeah. That film for me was Terminator 2. I remember the first time I saw glimpses of it - at a community center when no one was looking. It looked so frightening and awe-inspiring. Thankfully, it's held up over the years.
Winston*
10-21-2008, 09:51 AM
Tony Takitani - Not very good. Feels way too much like someone just reading me a story with visual accompaniment. I can read a story myself, I can visualize what the prose says, I own this particular Murakami short story, what is is the reason for this movie?
megladon8
10-21-2008, 11:06 AM
I am going to in the next weekend hopefully watch John Carpenter's Halloween, I think. I am also going to probably consider giving his The Thing another try regardless of a somewhat negative first viewing. It feels like a movie I should like, and that said, I am going into it with slightly higher hopes even though I didn't like it a first time.
I'm definitely going to watch Halloween, like every year...and I was actually thinking of re-watching The Thing, myself.
I've seen a few great horrors this year. Have you seen the Irish film Isolation? I always joke that if you're just told the premise - "a monster movie about a zombie cow fetus" - you have no idea what you're in for :) I was really surprised, it was pretty scary. Great writing and acting, as well.
Also Altered, a film by one of the guys who did The Blair Witch Project. A group of guys who were abducted by aliens in the past manage to capture one when it comes back to Earth. Things do not go well.
It also has one of the most original spaceship designs I've seen in a long time.
Boner M
10-21-2008, 11:28 AM
Hmm, I liked Head-On much better on second viewing. Kinda surprising to me, since it's primary virtues - boundless energy, bravado, emotional rawness - are the kinds of things that shoudn't hold up on second look.
Not gonna lie, tho - about 5 point of my rating are probably for Sibel Kekilli's looks alone.
But in a nostalgic, "I grew up with this movie" type of way?
Or in a "seeing it for the first time today, it still rocks" kind of way?
I did not grow up with the monster, I didn't see Pumpkinhead for the first time until '02 or so. If you're expecting fine wine, you won't be getting it here. You've got one good actor, one good monster, and a bunch of not so good actors, but it all works.
I remember shutting off Altered. The actors annoyed the shit out of me.
megladon8
10-21-2008, 12:08 PM
I remember shutting off Altered. The actors annoyed the shit out of me.
Yeah I can understand that. I found a lot of it to be pretty creepy, though. Some great shocks, and a pretty sadistic version of "little green men".
Grouchy
10-21-2008, 04:50 PM
I can also sort of see why someone would be annoyed by the constant screaming hysterics in Altered.
But I liked it enough. We used to have a famous show in Argentina, "Final Time", which was basically suspense/horror stories in real time (an hour, sans commercials) - Altered feels a lot like an episode of that.
MadMan
10-21-2008, 06:26 PM
meg my local video store has Altered. I may check it out. Also today in class I finally penned a review of Eyes Without a Face. While its still in the basic review stages I may just throw it up here anyways. Or put it off for four years :P
Watashi
10-21-2008, 08:43 PM
I always found it amusing that Scorsese has called The Age of Innocence his "most violent movie" due to the emotional vs. physical battle of words and ideals. Now that I've seen it, I have to give Marty props in backing that statement up. The film's bourgeoisie design is reminiscent of Scorsese's Little Italy with a hierarchy of social gatherings and confined quarters. Even as a period piece yawner, I felt glued to Scorsese's scrumptious and passionate direction. It's easily one of his best directed films purely on a visual level. I think I now prefer Scorsese's quaint smaller project over his critically-lofted spectacles (though I do think Gangs of New York is still one of his best) .
3 more to go.
Kurosawa Fan
10-21-2008, 09:18 PM
Man. I hated The Age of Innocence. Visuals aside, it felt so lazy. I might as well have read the book. Blech.
Qrazy
10-21-2008, 09:36 PM
Man. I hated The Age of Innocence. Visuals aside, it felt so lazy. I might as well have read the book. Blech.
Personally aside from a handful of exceptions I found the camerawork in the film to be fairly lacking. The final shot of the film was retarded.
Speaking of bad endings Gangs of New York has an awful one.
Watashi
10-21-2008, 09:38 PM
Personally aside from a handful of exceptions I found the camerawork in the film to be fairly lacking. The final shot of the film was retarded.
Speaking of bad endings Gangs of New York has an awful one.
The final shot in AoI is amazing. It's an ending that Orson Welles would have done.
Qrazy
10-21-2008, 09:44 PM
The final shot in AoI is amazing. It's an ending that Orson Welles would have done.
Don't really agree with that in the slightest given that Welles is very theatrical and the final shot of AoI is bland and banal... but to clarify in terms of my complaint I'm referring only to the haphazard execution of the shot itself and not so much it's intent. I have problems with the intent of the final shot in Gangs of New York but in AoI I think the intent is worthwhile but my issue is with the execution. DDL just sort of wanders away down the road and behind a tree it's about as poignant as the string of old people filing out of the church at the end of Indy IV. Another shot/sequence I hated were the dissolves down by the lake, ugh.
Ivan Drago
10-21-2008, 10:19 PM
3 more to go.
3 more...Scorsese movies? If so what do you have left to see?
Just finished watching The Strangers. So few films have the ability to raise the hairs on the back of my neck. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but sorta wished I'd waited until after I got back from a couple weeks away from home.
Just finished watching The Strangers. So few films have the ability to raise the hairs on the back of my neck. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but sorta wished I'd waited until after I got back from a couple weeks away from home.
Did you see Ils/Them?
Did you see Ils/Them?
No, but I do remember reading somewhere that there's quite a correlation between the two.
Its been added to the queue.
MacGuffin
10-22-2008, 12:29 AM
No, but I do remember reading somewhere that there's quite a correlation between the two.
Its been added to the queue.
It's a good one; I liked it as much as The Strangers.
It's a good one; I liked it as much as The Strangers.
Should I leave a couple week gap between viewing the two, if not more?
MacGuffin
10-22-2008, 12:51 AM
Should I leave a couple week gap between viewing the two, if not more?
I don't think it is necessary unless you have a low tolerance to home invasion movies. Ils is very stylish and relies on psychological scares. I'd say give it a go.
I don't think it is necessary unless you have a low tolerance to home invasion movies. Ils is very stylish and relies on psychological scares. I'd say give it a go.
One home invasion movie is enough right now since I'll be gone from home for two weeks leaving the wife home alone.
When I get back, I'll be all over it like stink on shit.
D_Davis
10-22-2008, 01:50 AM
I can't see home invasion films. This is something that actually scares the hell out of me IRL, something that I actually worry about sometimes. I can't imagine watching something like this, I'd be scared out of my gourd.
Maybe I can handle them better because I live in an urban sardine can. There's nowhere for anyone to hide that I won't find within two minutes of being home. :|
megladon8
10-22-2008, 01:55 AM
I didn't get the big deal with Funny Games.
It wasn't frightening but instead seemed to go for the same type of exploitative shock value as something like Hostel, but masking it in a thin veneer of intellectual pretentiousness.
A condescending movie, to say the least.
Come to think of it, I don't know that I've seen many home invasion films. Can't say it's a subject I am constantly on the lookout for.
I'm pretty interested in seeing The Strangers, though. I like Liv Tyler, and the positive reviews it got on here are promising.
Spinal
10-22-2008, 01:57 AM
I didn't get the big deal with Funny Games.
It wasn't frightening but instead seemed to go for the same type of exploitative shock value as something like Hostel, but masking it in a thin veneer of intellectual pretentiousness.
A condescending movie, to say the least.
:frustrated:
megladon8
10-22-2008, 01:58 AM
:frustrated:
What, you loved Funny Games?
I didn't get the big deal with Funny Games.
Original or remake?
megladon8
10-22-2008, 02:06 AM
Original or remake?
Original.
I have a hard time not rolling my eyes at a director who says that if you sit through the whole movie, you're a bad person, but if you leave becuase the violence sickens you, then you're a bad filmgoer.
I guess we can't all be gods like Michael Haneke.
Ezee E
10-22-2008, 02:14 AM
Original.
I have a hard time not rolling my eyes at a director who says that if you sit through the whole movie, you're a bad person, but if you leave becuase the violence sickens you, then you're a bad filmgoer.
I guess we can't all be gods like Michael Haneke.
Rephrasing his words a bit.
Spinal will correct you.
Spinal
10-22-2008, 02:15 AM
What, you loved Funny Games?
This whole line of critique against this film drives me absolutely nuts. I cannot relate. To me, it's a playful film. I don't get why so many people take offense to it. Cannot make it compute in my brain.
Ezee E
10-22-2008, 02:15 AM
Rephrasing his words a bit.
Spinal will correct you.
Oh yeah, and Age of Innocence is lower-Scorsese. Despite his love for the movie, it's the least interesting of all his films really.
Original.
I have a hard time not rolling my eyes at a director who says that if you sit through the whole movie, you're a bad person, but if you leave becuase the violence sickens you, then you're a bad filmgoer.
I guess we can't all be gods like Michael Haneke.
Well, I liked it quite a bit, but the ending was admittedly cruel and tough to stomach--I can see why it, and the movie in general, would turn people off. I actually like the other two of his I've seen a lot more (Piano Teacher and Cache), though I would only recommend the latter to you, given your thoughts on FG.
Spinal
10-22-2008, 02:17 AM
I have a hard time not rolling my eyes at a director who says that if you sit through the whole movie, you're a bad person, but if you leave becuase the violence sickens you, then you're a bad filmgoer.
Yes, and here is the inevitable second stage. Critiquing the filmmaker's interview about the film rather than the film itself. Complete with a misinterpretation of his comments.
This whole line of critique against this film drives me absolutely nuts. I cannot relate. To me, it's a playful film. I don't get why so many people take offense to it. Cannot make it compute in my brain.
Oh, you have to realize that while it is in ways a dark comedy, it's got some serious darkness to it as well. Like the intended kind.
Dead & Messed Up
10-22-2008, 02:19 AM
This whole line of critique against this film drives me absolutely nuts. I cannot relate. To me, it's a playful film. I don't get why so many people take offense to it. Cannot make it compute in my brain.
I suspect it's because Haneke's too good of a suspense filmmaker. I became very empathetic to the plight of the family, and the subversion of that narrative reality frustrated me because I felt the message wasn't deep or useful. Approaching it lightly is tough when the film seems so serious.
Duncan
10-22-2008, 02:20 AM
:lol: Poor Spinal.
Just because its ironically titled Funny Games, doesn't mean it should be viewed that way.
megladon8
10-22-2008, 02:25 AM
I never said the film offended me.
I understand its attempts to question our voyeuristic nature when it comes to violence - why we revel in seeing others tortured and killed on screen.
But it turned into what it was trying to condemn.
Oh and those two young guys were total goofs.
Boner M
10-22-2008, 02:32 AM
This whole line of critique against this film drives me absolutely nuts. I cannot relate. To me, it's a playful film. I don't get why so many people take offense to it. Cannot make it compute in my brain.
I agree that it is playful in a sense, but c'mon, he didn't photoshop the film for American audiences just so they could get a taste of its playfulness. He's too downright angry at his audience for that tone to register.
Winston*
10-22-2008, 02:44 AM
Film ratings discussion or Funny Games discussion? Which is more rewarding for the parties involved?
Spinal
10-22-2008, 02:49 AM
I agree that it is playful in a sense, but c'mon, he didn't photoshop the film for American audiences just so they could get a taste of its playfulness. He's too downright angry at his audience for that tone to register.
What makes you characterize him as angry? I see no evidence of that in his work or in his public persona. If anything, he is cold and methodical.
MadMan
10-22-2008, 02:51 AM
Film ratings discussion or Funny Games discussion? Which is more rewarding for the parties involved?Neither. I think we should talk about funny hats in movies. Who has the funniest hat? Who's funny hat is the best? Those are questions that must to be answered.
Spinal
10-22-2008, 02:51 AM
Just because its ironically titled Funny Games, doesn't mean it should be viewed that way.
It's not so much laugh out loud funny as it is sly and witty.
Spinal
10-22-2008, 02:52 AM
Neither. I think we should talk about funny hats in movies. Who has the funniest hat? Who's funny hat is the best? Those are questions that must to be answered.
Gangs of New York is a great funny hat movie.
It's not so much laugh out loud funny as it is sly and witty.
Yes, agreed. But I don't think it's ridiculous to be offended by it. Even as a satirical critique of violence in movies, it's still disturbing on its own.
Do you really just kick back and watch it from time to time as you would Gosford Park or something? (If you do, I'm not condemning. I've seen Blue Velvet quite a few times myself.)
Spinal
10-22-2008, 03:09 AM
Do you really just kick back and watch it from time to time as you would Gosford Park or something?
This is a very difficult question to answer because I would never choose to watch Gosford Park again.
But, yes, I've watched it a few times. I enjoy the experience. I enjoy the performances and the way the film is constructed. I find it to be a rewarding experience and I also enjoyed seeing the remake to see the subtle shifts made to scenes that were very familiar to me.
This is a very difficult question to answer because I would never choose to watch Gosford Park again.
I hate that movie, it was just the first thing that popped into my head for some reason... :lol: I thought most other people around here loved it. Maybe that's RT.
Speaking of disturbing films, I watched the 1986 Mick Jagger vanity project Running Out of Luck last night. He has a sex scene in which he exaggeratedly and unsettlingly uses his tongue on a girl's neck. I also think I counted like three irrelevant rape scenes. Five stars for camp value.
megladon8
10-22-2008, 03:20 AM
For some reason your mentioning that Mick Jagger scene reminded me of the part in "Lolita" when he licks the eyelash out of her eye.
*shudders*
For some reason your mentioning that Mick Jagger scene reminded me of the part in "Lolita" when he licks the eyelash out of her eye.
*shudders*
This was also followed up by him awkwardly grabbing the girl's boobs as if they were doorknobs in a shot that went on way longer than it should have.
And even though the movie is silly in spirit, I think he really was going for sexy in that scene. Which makes it creepier.
Boner M
10-22-2008, 03:29 AM
What makes you characterize him as angry? I see no evidence of that in his work or in his public persona. If anything, he is cold and methodical.
...Cold and methodical yet concealing anger, yes. He said he remade the film because the intended audience that consumes violence uncritically didn't see the original film. Similarly I see the playfulness of Funny Games as the means and not the ends. FWIW, playful:
1. full of play or fun; sportive; frolicsome.
2. pleasantly humorous or jesting: a playful remark.
I suppose a wink to the camera or using a remote control to rewind the onscreen action could be construed as a playful trope in any other context, but here they serve as a rude awakening, just like the avant-metal piece interrupting the classical music at the beginning.
Gremlins 2, Shoot the Piano Player, Celine and Julie Go Boating... playful! Funny Games... not so much.
Spinal
10-22-2008, 03:30 AM
Did you really think I didn't know the definition of the word 'playful'? :|
MacGuffin
10-22-2008, 03:31 AM
I like what I've seen for the most part from Michael Haneke and Peter Greenaway, but golly, do they seem like pompous assholes in real life.
Did you really think I didn't know the definition of the word 'playful'? :|
Oh, it's on! It is ON!!
Boner M
10-22-2008, 03:33 AM
Did you really think I didn't know the definition of the word 'playful'? :|
Now you know how it feels to watch Funny Games!
Spinal
10-22-2008, 03:34 AM
I like what I've seen for the most part from Michael Haneke and Peter Greenaway, but golly, do they seem like pompous assholes in real life.
OK, OK, I get it. You guys all teamed up and decided to fuck with me tonight. Nicely done. Rep to all of you!
MadMan
10-22-2008, 03:40 AM
Gangs of New York is a great funny hat movie.Yes. Yes it is. Gotta love them period piece funky 19th century hats.
Ezee E
10-22-2008, 03:47 AM
Oh yeah...
So, Body of Lies is like The Departed meets Iraq.
Only mediocre.
Qrazy
10-22-2008, 03:49 AM
OK, OK, I get it. You guys all teamed up and decided to fuck with me tonight. Nicely done. Rep to all of you!
Come on now... Trier, Haneke, Greenaway... you love condescending pompousity in cinema, it's your thing, that thing that you love.
Grouchy
10-22-2008, 03:52 AM
The Age of Innocence is one of Scorsese's more beautiful movies. What the hell is wrong with the final shot? It makes complete sense to me. It has absolutely shit balls nothing to do with the ending of the last Indy.
Oh, right. Nobody cares now. That was on the last page.
Boner M
10-22-2008, 03:52 AM
OK, OK, I get it. You guys all teamed up and decided to fuck with me tonight. Nicely done. Rep to all of you!
We're just being playful.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/mhk.jpg
Spinal
10-22-2008, 03:52 AM
Come on now... Trier, Haneke, Greenaway... you love condescending pompousity in cinema, it's your thing, that thing that you love.
Condescending pomposity combined with rampant and preferably graphic nudity. If we're going to assign labels, let's be precise.
Ezee E
10-22-2008, 03:53 AM
Oh yeah...
So, Body of Lies is like The Departed meets Iraq.
Only mediocre.
Oh, and teh Van Houten was nowhere to be seen. Thought she was suppose to be in it.
MadMan
10-22-2008, 03:58 AM
Come on now... Trier, Haneke, Greenaway... you love condescending pompousity in cinema, it's your thing, that thing that you love.I have no clue what my "thing" is. Maybe I'll find out when I finally grow up.
Qrazy
10-22-2008, 03:59 AM
The Age of Innocence is one of Scorsese's more beautiful movies. What the hell is wrong with the final shot? It makes complete sense to me. It has absolutely shit balls nothing to do with the ending of the last Indy.
Oh, right. Nobody cares now. That was on the last page.
I'm just saying both last shots irritated me with their banality, that was the only connection between the two. He just sort of wanders off behind a tree or was it a buggy... I don't remember.
Grouchy
10-22-2008, 04:01 AM
I'm just saying both last shots irritated me with their banality, that was the only connection between the two. He just sort of wanders off behind a tree or was it a buggy... I don't remember.
Ok, but there's a significance to that shot, right? It's his final departure from the life he could have had. I think that's a tiny wee bloody obvious.
Qrazy
10-22-2008, 04:03 AM
Condescending pomposity combined with rampant and preferably graphic nudity. If we're going to assign labels, let's be precise.
True say.
Qrazy
10-22-2008, 04:03 AM
Ok, but there's a significance to that shot, right? It's his final departure from the life he could have had. I think that's a tiny wee bloody obvious.
Again my problem is not with the intent of the scene but with the shot itself.
*double checks online*
Alright so he wanders behind a tree and then a buggy. Oh and the light off the window into the eyes resulting in partial dissolves back to the memory of the lake is absolutely dreadful. Just cut, just bloody cut, and if you have to dissolve don't do a foreground/background dissolve with DDL dissolving out separately. This film and Cape Fear are the only Scorsese films with stylistic flourishes that I simply cannot stand to watch (well there are probably a few others in other films but these are the ones that spring to mind for me most).
Qrazy
10-22-2008, 04:07 AM
I have no clue what my "thing" is. Maybe I'll find out when I finally grow up.
Wolves in peoples necks apparently.
SirNewt
10-22-2008, 04:24 AM
Yeah. That film for me was Terminator 2. I remember the first time I saw glimpses of it - at a community center when no one was looking. It looked so frightening and awe-inspiring. Thankfully, it's held up over the years.
Hmmm. . . yeah, T2 has held up but I don't know about 'Running Man'. I've kind of avoided it over the years as I don't really want to know.
Grouchy
10-22-2008, 04:28 AM
Again my problem is not with the intent of the scene but with the shot itself.
*double checks online*
Alright so he wanders behind a tree and then a buggy. Oh and the light off the window into the eyes resulting in partial dissolves back to the memory of the lake is absolutely dreadful. Just cut, just bloody cut, and if you have to dissolve don't do a foreground/background dissolve with DDL dissolving out separately. This film and Cape Fear are the only Scorsese films with stylistic flourishes that I simply cannot stand to watch (well there are probably a few others in other films but these are the ones that spring to mind for me most).
Ok... I sort of don't have any problem with that.
Cape Fear, by the way, is almost entirely a Roger Corman throwback in the style. Freddie Francis as the DP probably influenced the more colorful parts of the film, too.
Also, Kourei/Seance was excellent. I'd heard mostly lukewarm to negative things, so that was a great surprise. Has anyone else seen it? I'm guessing maybe Rowland.
Can I have my username changed to K. Kurosawa Fan?
MadMan
10-22-2008, 04:41 AM
Wolves in peoples necks apparently.Its a Halloween thing man.
Dead & Messed Up
10-22-2008, 05:36 AM
Also, Kourei/Seance was excellent. I'd heard mostly lukewarm to negative things, so that was a great surprise. Has anyone else seen it? I'm guessing maybe Rowland.
Can I have my username changed to K. Kurosawa Fan?
Nice. I'm getting that from Netflix tomorrow. I loved Pulse and enjoyed Cure, so you may have some competition for that username.
Nice. I'm getting that from Netflix tomorrow. I loved Pulse and enjoyed Cure, so you may have some competition for that username.
Oh, I hope you like it! It's a lot smaller and less polished than those two (made for TV I believe), but still masterful and has some amazing scenes.
Pop Trash
10-22-2008, 06:35 AM
I watched Stuck and I also read the discussion about it a few pages back.
I too really liked it and thought there was a sly social commentary in there about bureaucracy and the class system.
I don't think Mena Suvari's character was meant to be "bourgeois." At least not in my definition of the term. She's definitely middle-working class. I think Gordon establishes that she is not in a privileged position at her job when the first thing she does in the film is clean up a bunch of shit. And by "shit" I mean literally human feces. I think she is meant to be something of a self absorbed airhead who encounters a problem she knows will complicate her life immensely so she makes a series of bad decisions.
What's interesting is that it seems to show how lower classes relate to each other. I mean Suvari is definitely working class and probably not college educated. But her and her boyfriend treat someone in a class right under them (poor and newly homeless) as if it's OK to kill them since they are homeless and as such don't matter. By this rationale it would be OK for someone who is upper middle class or just upper class (like say a doctor or lawyer) to kill one of them since they are working class and thus their lives aren't as valuable.
This is an example of an independent film falling through the cracks because it doesn't really fill any direct genre. It's too dark and creepy to ever become Oscar bait. But it's not horrific enough to be filed as a horror movie. But it deserves to be seen. It actually reminded me a little of the "ripped from the headlines" style of Sam Fuller.
Anyways: 8/10
SirNewt
10-22-2008, 06:52 AM
Netflix email:
Film Noir Collection: The Stranger
Arriving on or around: Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008
Wooooohooooo!
The last time I posted that I was excited about Netflix shipping something it was 'The Most Dangerous Game'. One of you told me it was disappointing, and it was, and whoever you are, I hate you.
transmogrifier
10-22-2008, 07:56 AM
Half-watching Indy 4 again - boy, it's bad. I can't believe THIS was the script that made George Lucas happy. No, scratch that - I understand completely. It lifts quite a bit from King Kong at first, I reckon - the mad dash along the cliff changes from a dinosaur stampede to a jeep race, a lot of different bugs become ants, the group of naturally violent "natives" who are scared off by Kong become the group of naturally violent "natives" who are scared off by a crystal skull - and does so very, very badly, before deciding to abandon the poor facsimilie of KK for a poor facsimilie of The Mummy.
I think Gordon establishes that she is not in a privileged position at her job when the first thing she does in the film is clean up a bunch of shit. And by "shit" I mean literally human feces.
I think this is both beside the point and proof still that the reading of her as a product of middle-class exploitation is valid. The idea is that she is in a place to move up from shit cleaner to clipboard carrier is a model of the bourgeois mobility myth (a myth as substantiated by Rea's decline).
It lifts quite a bit from King Kong at first, I reckon - the mad dash along the cliff changes from a dinosaur stampede to a jeep race, a lot of different bugs become ants, the group of naturally violent "natives" who are scared off by Kong become the group of naturally violent "natives" who are scared off by a crystal skull...
Kinda illustrates how forehead-slappingly dumbass King Kong is. Although I agree, it is the better film.
Dead & Messed Up
10-22-2008, 05:50 PM
Clearly I need to watch Stuck. I'm a big fan of Gordon's other stuff, even Edmond, which wasn't exactly a pick-me-up.
Watashi
10-22-2008, 06:43 PM
The Island (Bay, 2005) ***1/2
AI (Spielberg, 2001) ***
*facepalm*
*waits for the "I agree with led" from iosos*
*facepalm*
*waits for the "I agree with led" from iosos*
3 things:
1) iosos is dead
2) I've never seen The Island
3) I'm sure if I had, I wouldn't like it, a Michael Bay film, more than AI, a film that I love
Cheap shot, BlueBomber, and you still missed.
Watashi
10-22-2008, 06:47 PM
3 things:
1) iosos is dead
2) I've never seen The Island
3) I'm sure if I had, I wouldn't like it, a Michael Bay film, more than AI, a film that I love
Cheap shot, BlueBomber, and you still missed.
I'm never going to call you Sven and you know this. You can't just change horses during midstream.
I thought you and Davis were MC's wacky Bay supporters. I guess not.
Ezee E
10-22-2008, 06:48 PM
3 things:
1) iosos is dead
2) I've never seen The Island
3) I'm sure if I had, I wouldn't like it, a Michael Bay film, more than AI, a film that I love
Cheap shot, BlueBomber, and you still missed.
Sven jabs, jabs, then fucks the shit out of Wats.
Ezee E
10-22-2008, 06:48 PM
I'm never going to call you Sven and you know this. You can't just change horses during midstream.
I thought you and Davis were MC's wacky Bay supporters. I guess not.
Hook attempt. Missed.
dreamdead
10-22-2008, 08:22 PM
Also, Kourei/Seance was excellent. I'd heard mostly lukewarm to negative things, so that was a great surprise. Has anyone else seen it? I'm guessing maybe Rowland.
I don't think it's as powerful formally as Pulse or Cure, but there's a handful of really powerful and evocative images in this film that inspire me consider a solid success. The business with Koji's double and the fire are classic K. Kurosawa, and their deadpan handling makes the film subtly scary. It lacks the fullness of vision of KK's best, but it's nonetheless solid.
Meanwhile, I watched The Lives of Others (and can thus claim I've seen all of the MC top ten of '06) and was struck by the thoroughness of the film's quality. That said, the ideas of art vs. politics come off a bit too direct, and the film lacks a sense of ambiguity at times that keeps it from being a superlative achievement. This is one of those times that I support baby doll's contentions of this being a film that pacifies rather than provokes us, but Ulrich Mühe is undeniably incredible. At times it reminded me of Kieslowski or Bertolucci in its exploration of color, but the ambiguity of either of those artists was missing; still, the camera had several interesting choices that it rises above traditional celebrations of art.
D_Davis
10-22-2008, 09:58 PM
The Island is cool, but AI is more awesome.
Rowland
10-22-2008, 10:26 PM
Also, Kourei/Seance was excellent. I'd heard mostly lukewarm to negative things, so that was a great surprise. Has anyone else seen it? I'm guessing maybe Rowland.Seance isn't one of my favorite Kurosawa joints, but it's still definitely very good. With all the explicitly creepy moments, my favorite scene in the film is a very subtle bit with the wife cleaning the house while the girl is in the garage. She looks down the hallway in the direction of the garage door and watches as the hall darkens and illuminates repeatedly as clouds drift by overhead, blocking out the sun and creating this really evocative, dreamlike natural effect.
You need to see License to Live, Serpent's Path, and Eye of the Spider.
Rowland
10-22-2008, 10:33 PM
I watched Stuck and I also read the discussion about it a few pages back. Excellent, I'm happy that someone else decided to give this a shot.
Watashi
10-22-2008, 11:55 PM
I can't believe I wasted 90 minutes watching Walk Hard. I usually fall for the occasional Apatow shlock, but this was pretty silly, gross, and overall pointless. It reminded me a lot of Team America.
Ezee E
10-22-2008, 11:58 PM
Leatherheads is a great example of too much talent doing a horrible script. Such a bore.
EyesWideOpen
10-23-2008, 01:52 AM
I can't believe I wasted 90 minutes watching Walk Hard. I usually fall for the occasional Apatow shlock, but this was pretty silly, gross, and overall pointless. It reminded me a lot of Team America.
Wrong again, both films are great especially Team America.
Raiders
10-23-2008, 02:03 AM
I too loved Kurosawa's Seance and actually found it an overwhelmingly sad film.
Rowland
10-23-2008, 02:07 AM
Just finished watching The Strangers. So few films have the ability to raise the hairs on the back of my neck. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but sorta wished I'd waited until after I got back from a couple weeks away from home.The first act is the creepiest, after which it grows increasingly conventional and unconvincing, right up to the clunker of a conclusion. Still, I give it major props for the neck hairs it does manage to raise, and for not pandering to the teeny bopper set, instead playing like a stripped down genre exercise aimed at the more mature bracket of horror fans.
Eye of the Spider.
Saw that one--wasn't overly impressed. It was pretty funny, but didn't stick with me so much. Next one I'm going to watch is probably Charisma.
I don't think it's as powerful formally as Pulse or Cure, but there's a handful of really powerful and evocative images in this film that inspire me consider a solid success. The business with Koji's double and the fire are classic K. Kurosawa, and their deadpan handling makes the film subtly scary. It lacks the fullness of vision of KK's best, but it's nonetheless solid.
Yes, that's a great scene, and even more interesting given that he made Doppelganger a few years later.
MadMan
10-23-2008, 02:16 AM
I can't believe I wasted 90 minutes watching Walk Hard. I usually fall for the occasional Apatow shlock, but this was pretty silly, gross, and overall pointless. It reminded me a lot of Team America.Okay I can understand those who didn't like Walk Hard, even though its pretty damn funny. But those who didn't like Team America completely confuse me. I don't get it. That movie is hilarious. Its one of the best spoofs ever made, and the politics resulting from it are really just a side effect of said spoofing.
Rowland
10-23-2008, 02:49 AM
Saw that one--wasn't overly impressed. It was pretty funny, but didn't stick with me so much. Next one I'm going to watch is probably Charisma.
That's too bad, I thought it was one of his more interesting experiments in tonal manipulation, comprised of many striking sequences both humorous and serious. In any case, don't look over Serpent's Path because you weren't too impressed by this one, since it's the superior movie. I'm not a fan of Charisma.
D_Davis
10-23-2008, 03:02 AM
I can't believe I wasted 90 minutes watching Walk Hard. I usually fall for the occasional Apatow shlock, but this was pretty silly, gross, and overall pointless. It reminded me a lot of Team America.
I watched about 30 minutes of Walk Hard before turning it off in total disgust. A complete and total piece of crap. Couldn't find a redeemable quality about it.
D_Davis
10-23-2008, 03:03 AM
Yes, that's a great scene, and even more interesting given that he made Doppelganger a few years later.
I still thank Doppelganger is his best film, or at least my favorite.
Qrazy
10-23-2008, 03:05 AM
I watched about 30 minutes of Walk Hard before turning it off in total disgust. A complete and total piece of crap. Couldn't find a redeemable quality about it.
Haha same here except I could only watch 15 minutes.
Derek
10-23-2008, 03:07 AM
Yup, Walk Hard was abysmal. If Tim Meadows is the funniest part of your movie, you've got problems.
transmogrifier
10-23-2008, 03:12 AM
Just for a change, I'm going to disagree and say Walk Hard was pretty damn funny.
MacGuffin
10-23-2008, 03:14 AM
Yup, Walk Hard was abysmal. If Tim Meadows is the funniest part of your movie, you've got problems.
Didn't you like Mean Girls? ;)
Qrazy
10-23-2008, 03:19 AM
Yup, Walk Hard was abysmal. If Tim Meadows is the funniest part of your movie, you've got problems.
Tim Meadows is awesome, don't be a hater.
Derek
10-23-2008, 03:21 AM
Didn't you like Mean Girls? ;)
I fail to see the correlation. Mean Girls is an biting and funny satire. Walk Hard is a spoof as limp as the dick it repeatedly throws in our face for a cheap laugh.
D_Davis
10-23-2008, 03:22 AM
Haha same here except I could only watch 15 minutes.
It actually made me mad. The film seemed to hate me.
MacGuffin
10-23-2008, 03:24 AM
Mean Girls is an biting and funny satire.
If by "satire", you mean reinforcing those high school stereotypes we are all familiar with, than yeah, I guess I know what you mean, but I don't find that funny.
Qrazy
10-23-2008, 03:30 AM
It actually made me mad. The film seemed to hate me.
Yeah I was just disgusted by it's laziness.
Watashi
10-23-2008, 03:31 AM
The only good part of the movie was Jenna Fisher's boobs.
Sycophant
10-23-2008, 03:44 AM
Haha same here except I could only watch 15 minutes.
Oh yeah? Well, I only got through TWELVE minutes! HA!
Actually, I enjoyed it quite a bit. I thought its genre skewering was pretty fantastic. The childhood stuff at the beginning was actually some of the weakest material. But if you couldn't stand it, I doubt it would've improved.
Ivan Drago
10-23-2008, 03:58 AM
Okay I can understand those who didn't like Walk Hard, even though its pretty damn funny. But those who didn't like Team America completely confuse me. I don't get it. That movie is hilarious. Its one of the best spoofs ever made, and the politics resulting from it are really just a side effect of said spoofing.
I love both Walk Hard and Team America, the former even more.
"Man fuck nobility!"
"Fuck ancient Egypt!"
"...Fuck...cats!"
Ezee E
10-23-2008, 04:19 AM
Just for a change, I'm going to disagree and say Walk Hard was pretty damn funny.
Yeah, I enjoyed it too, and Tim Meadows isn't the funniest part.
Qrazy
10-23-2008, 04:29 AM
Oh yeah? Well, I only got through TWELVE minutes! HA!
Actually, I enjoyed it quite a bit. I thought its genre skewering was pretty fantastic. The childhood stuff at the beginning was actually some of the weakest material. But if you couldn't stand it, I doubt it would've improved.
Haha wasn't trying to one up him I just couldn't watch any more of it.
Kurious Jorge v3.1
10-23-2008, 04:51 AM
I will be watching Seance in a day or two for the film swap.......the ravesw have set the bar high.
SirNewt
10-23-2008, 06:25 AM
Hey, I caught part of film on TCM but didn't get the name and don't remember any actors.
I think it's a classic Hollywood era flick but it might be early fifties. Three either Nazis or Soviet agents somehow end up in the northern USA and hide out in an Armenian commune. Two turn. I think one of which is killed. The loyal one tries to escape to Canada on a train. Can anyone help me here.
Boner M
10-23-2008, 06:47 AM
Just for a change, I'm going to disagree and say Walk Hard was pretty damn funny.
I actually agree, got some hearty l*lz from that one.
Philosophe_rouge
10-23-2008, 06:54 AM
Hey, I caught part of film on TCM but didn't get the name and don't remember any actors.
I think it's a classic Hollywood era flick but it might be early fifties. Three either Nazis or Soviet agents somehow end up in the northern USA and hide out in an Armenian commune. Two turn. I think one of which is killed. The loyal one tries to escape to Canada on a train. Can anyone help me here.
The 49th Parallel.
origami_mustache
10-23-2008, 07:08 AM
Yup, Walk Hard was abysmal. If Tim Meadows is the funniest part of your movie, you've got problems.
hahaha I said almost exactly the same thing
Derek
10-23-2008, 07:11 AM
If by "satire", you mean reinforcing those high school stereotypes we are all familiar with, than yeah, I guess I know what you mean, but I don't find that funny.
That's exactly what I mean! I'd invite you to read and respond to my actual thoughts on the film, but I'm sure there's a widely revered classic waiting for you to shit upon it.
Philosophe_rouge
10-23-2008, 07:36 AM
I never understand when high school films are attacked for reinforcing stereotypes. Did these people go to high school? I was there just a few years ago, and it was easily the most cliched and predictable experience of my life. Then again, never been a huge fan of films depicting the teenage years. Heathers and Ginger Snaps excepted.
transmogrifier
10-23-2008, 07:58 AM
The 49th Parallel.
Awesome, awesome, awesome.
Awesome.
megladon8
10-23-2008, 11:28 AM
I never understand when high school films are attacked for reinforcing stereotypes. Did these people go to high school? I was there just a few years ago, and it was easily the most cliched and predictable experience of my life. Then again, never been a huge fan of films depicting the teenage years. Heathers and Ginger Snaps excepted.
Repped for Ginger Snaps love.
dreamdead
10-23-2008, 02:23 PM
Weekend:
All the Vermeers in New York
Troll 2
The Incredible Hulk
London to Brighton
The Tiger's Tail
and hopefully Yi Yi again on Monday... :pritch:
The Tiger's Tail
Recently acquired this myself. How are you seeing it?
dreamdead
10-23-2008, 02:30 PM
Recently acquired this myself. How are you seeing it?
The Gene Siskel Film Center in Chicago is showing both that and London to Brighton at a two-film discount. Sarah loves all things British and Irish, so we're off for a train-into-Chicago and film jaunt on Saturday. I suspect that day's viewing will be immensely better than the Friday night expected mediocritython of Troll 2 and '08 Hulk. And since my Boorman is still limited to merely Point Blank I presume I'll see another side of his artistry.
The Gene Siskel Film Center in Chicago is showing both that and London to Brighton at a two-film discount. Sarah loves all things British and Irish, so we're off for a train-into-Chicago and film jaunt on Saturday. I suspect that day's viewing will be immensely better than the Friday night expected mediocritython of Troll 2 and '08 Hulk. And since my Boorman is still limited to merely Point Blank I presume I'll see another side of his artistry.
Oh neato.
I haven't seen it yet, so I can't speak for how well it represents Boorman, but I'm sure it's great. I highly recommend The General (for a taste of his modern sensibilities) and Excalibur (for the apex of his mythic sensibilities).
Kurosawa Fan
10-23-2008, 02:40 PM
Whoa. Did someone just call Troll 2 mediocre? I didn't just read that, did I?
Yxklyx
10-23-2008, 02:41 PM
The Gene Siskel Film Center in Chicago is showing both that and London to Brighton at a two-film discount. Sarah loves all things British and Irish, so we're off for a train-into-Chicago and film jaunt on Saturday. I suspect that day's viewing will be immensely better than the Friday night expected mediocritython of Troll 2 and '08 Hulk. And since my Boorman is still limited to merely Point Blank I presume I'll see another side of his artistry.
That's a good place to watch films. They serve alcohol too including the essential Guinness. Borzage's Man's Castle is playing there Friday night - might go see that.
dreamdead
10-23-2008, 02:50 PM
Whoa. Did someone just call Troll 2 mediocre? I didn't just read that, did I?
I had typed the Friday suckathon, but I didn't want to offend meg or other lovers of '08 Hulk, so I tempered the response while doing a disservice to Troll 2. My apologies. I expect Samurai Cop gloriousness with that one.
Kurosawa Fan
10-23-2008, 03:15 PM
I had typed the Friday suckathon, but I didn't want to offend meg or other lovers of '08 Hulk, so I tempered the response while doing a disservice to Troll 2. My apologies. I expect Samurai Cop gloriousness with that one.
Samurai Cop is better for the laughs, but Troll 2 still kicks all kinds of ass. Enjoy.
Raiders
10-23-2008, 03:22 PM
Weekend:
Rachel Getting Married (huzzah!)
The Furies
Day of the Outlaw
dreamdead
10-23-2008, 03:34 PM
The Furies
Awesome. I've had this near the top of the queue for some time now, what with Stanwyck and... um, Stanwyck. Curious to hear if it necessitates immediate viewing.
Amnesiac
10-23-2008, 03:34 PM
Weekend:
Rachel Getting Married (huzzah!)
Me too. Really looking forward to it.
MadMan
10-23-2008, 03:38 PM
Troll 2's hilarious badness must be seen by all. I recently penned a writeup of it on another website for a thread covering all of the horror films I'm viewing during this October.
dreamdead
10-23-2008, 03:41 PM
Troll 2's hilarious badness must be seen by all. I recently penned a writeup of it on another website for a thread covering all of the horror films I'm viewing during this October.
Farking post it then, amigo.
::takes a shot every time someone references a write-up that they then don't link to or cut n paste here::
Ezee E
10-23-2008, 03:44 PM
I tried watching Troll 2, but despite its horribleness, I still couldn't sit through it all.
Raiders
10-23-2008, 05:01 PM
what with Stanwyck and...
Anthony Mann.
balmakboor
10-23-2008, 05:03 PM
The 49th Parallel.
Except nobody in The 49th Parallel tries to escape to Canada on a train. The whole film takes place in Canada.
Wryan
10-23-2008, 05:17 PM
I never understand when high school films are attacked for reinforcing stereotypes. Did these people go to high school? I was there just a few years ago, and it was easily the most cliched and predictable experience of my life. Then again, never been a huge fan of films depicting the teenage years. Heathers and Ginger Snaps excepted.
Rep for Ginger Snaps. I like the sequel maybe even more.
Yxklyx
10-23-2008, 05:19 PM
Except nobody in The 49th Parallel tries to escape to Canada on a train. The whole film takes place in Canada.
They're trying to escape FROM enemy Canada to neutral USA.
baby doll
10-23-2008, 05:29 PM
I count Chabrol among my favorites, but then again, I've only really seen his lionized films... innocent 'til proven guilty, I guess. Though I did think A Girl Cut in Two was pretty mediocre despite solid reviews. I haven't seen the one you mentioned, but he made the fantastic Juste Avant la Nuit in the same year, so that counts for something (as well as Le Boucher the previous year).Le fleur du mal (2003) and La Demoiselle d'honneur (2004) were both competently executed but instantly forgettable. He tends to be at his best when he has a star on the level of Stéphane Audran (Les Bonnes femmes [1960], La Femme infidèle [1969], La Rupture [1970]; I haven't seen Juste avant la nuit but it's supposedly one of his best) or Isabelle Huppert (La Cérémonie [1995], and to a lesser extent, Une affaire de femmes [1988] and Merci pour le chocolat [2000]). I don't know what went wrong with Le Décade prodigieuse, because it had Anthony Perkins, Michel Piccoli and Orson Welles, and it still sucked.
EDIT: Oh, screw it, if I can't rate Chabrol in this thread, where can I?
La Demoiselle d'honneur (2004) [4]
Le fleur du mal (2003) [5]
Merci pour le chocolat (2000) [6]
La Cérémonie (1995) [10]
Une affaire des femmes (1988) [6]
Les Innocents aux mains sales (1975) [4]
Nada (1974) [4]
Le Décade prodigieuse (1971) [3]
La Rupture (1970) [8]
Le Boucher (1970) [8]
La Femme infidèle (1969) [8]
Que la bête meure (1969) [6, but I need to rewatch]
Les Biches (1968) [5]
Les Bonnes femmes (1960) [8]
Philosophe_rouge
10-23-2008, 05:36 PM
Except nobody in The 49th Parallel tries to escape to Canada on a train. The whole film takes place in Canada.
I'm still 95% sure that's the film in question :p Someone not paying much attention, could easily miss if it's set in Canada or not. I think.
Rep for Ginger Snaps. I like the sequel maybe even more.
I actually saw the sequel earlier this week. I think the first half is just a strong a film as the first, but once they leave the clinic it only goes downhill from there. The absence of Katharine Isabelle also wears on it.
Izzy Black
10-23-2008, 05:40 PM
Among living American directors, I'll take Wes Anderson, Albert Brooks, Todd Haynes, Jim Jarmusch, Spike Lee or David Lynch any day of the week.
Wes Anderson? He's terrible. Jarmusch is interesting, but has never been great. Brooks never made a great movie either. Spike Lee, Lynch, and Haynes make more sense. I would also put Abel Ferrara, Darren Aronofsky, Michael Mann, Hal Hartley, Mike Nichols, Tony Scott, Richard Linktar, Whit Stillman, Bill Viola, and Terrence Malick all day everyday over the former three you mentioned.
thefourthwall
10-23-2008, 06:04 PM
Weekend:
All the Vermeers in New York
High School Musical 3
London to Brighton
The Tiger's Tail
Hopefully HSM3 will be better than Troll 2/'08 Hulk?
Watashi
10-23-2008, 06:32 PM
Weekend:
Synecdoche, New York
Let the Right One In
New York, New York
Rachel Getting Married also comes out, but meh.
Farking post it then, amigo.
::takes a shot every time someone references a write-up that they then don't link to or cut n paste here::
Yeah, I recently wrote up a 4000+ word piece on the negative aspects of ignoring the auteur theory when film going in other parts of the world, and how it cultivates unsavory audience habits both abroad and at home. I'm not going to link to it because it's not for all tastes.
Raiders
10-23-2008, 06:49 PM
Synecdoche, New York also comes out, but meh.
Okay, of the following films which should I watch and in what order? I ask because I have to manage my time more tightly these days and can only average one movie per day:
Millennium Mambo
The Hole (Tsai Ming-liang)
Man with the Movie Camera
Spider
The World
Qrazy
10-23-2008, 07:02 PM
Okay, of the following films which should I watch and in what order? I ask because I have to manage my time more tightly these days and can only average one movie per day:
Millennium Mambo
The Hole (Tsai Ming-liang)
Man with the Movie Camera
Spider
The World
1. Man with the Movie Camera
2. Spider
3. Millennium Mambo
Haven't seen the other two.
Derek
10-23-2008, 07:04 PM
Millennium Mambo
The World
[I]Man with the Movie Camera
I haven't seen the other two you listed, but all three of these are great. Those are actually my favorites from Hou and Jia from what I've seen so far.
Wryan
10-23-2008, 07:25 PM
I actually saw the sequel earlier this week. I think the first half is just a strong a film as the first, but once they leave the clinic it only goes downhill from there. The absence of Katharine Isabelle also wears on it.
The girls' dynamic is incredibly good, but I frankly didn't miss Isabelle all that much. I adore Perkins in both movies. The third film is quite tired. I thought the child in the second film, and how that all plays out, was amazing.
MadMan
10-23-2008, 08:49 PM
Farking post it then, amigo.
::takes a shot every time someone references a write-up that they then don't link to or cut n paste here::Okay, fine. I will :P
Troll 2 (1990, Claudio Fragasso)
http://www.filmjunk.com/images/weblog/troll2party.jpg
What more can I say about a film that has accurately been labeled one of the worst movies of all time? This film has to be seen to be believed, for its badness is all in a class by itself. The hilarity level is insanely high, and I can't imagine anyone aside from small children finding this movie to be at all scary.
http://www.bestworstmovie.com/images/infection/joshua_green_goo.jpg
Nevermind the wretched dialogue, the acting that makes the people in the Friday the 13th series look like trained thesipians, or the fact that many scenes absolutely do not make any sense at all. I was laughing so hard throughout, not only at the crazy ghost grandpa that keeps appearing and then vanishing at all the wrong times, but at the evil she-bitch supposedly driving things.
http://www.headinjurytheater.com/images/troll2%20worst%20guardian%20an gel%20ever.jpg
This film has everything from corn porn (I'm not kidding. You have to see it to really believe it, and its very funny), to a guy screaming about them eating him, and oh yeah Grandpa is actually creepier than any of the goblins. There's not a troll to actually be found in this film, which means that the film makers cannot only be sued for wasting people's time and money with this crap, but also for a misleading title. Not that anyone would waste their time doing so, although God knows at the same time we did end up with something that proves that anyone can make a movie. And sucker someone into financing it regardless of how horrible it is. 2.5, but a 8.0 on the laughter scale
Scare Level=-5
And now, I bring to you, the immortal scene of "They're eating her. And then they're gonna eat meeeee!!!! OH MY GOOOOODDDDD!!!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyophYBP_w4
Amnesiac
10-23-2008, 09:01 PM
Wes Anderson? He's terrible. Jarmusch is interesting, but has never been great. Brooks never made a great movie either. Spike Lee, Lynch, and Haynes make more sense. I would also put Abel Ferrara, Darren Aronofsky, Michael Mann, Hal Hartley, Mike Nichols, Tony Scott, Richard Linktar, Whit Stillman, Bill Viola, and Terrence Malick all day everyday over the former three you mentioned.
What do you dislike about Wes Anderson and what do you like about Tony Scott?
Boner M
10-23-2008, 09:15 PM
Heat and Sunlight
Germany, Year Zero
Man on Wire
The Furies
Kurious Jorge v3.1
10-23-2008, 09:49 PM
Weekend:
Seance (Film swap)
Witness for the Prosecution (just watched Anatomy of a Murder; hunger for more court film!)
Of Time and City (Chicago Int'l Film Fest)
A Christmas Tale (Chicago " " ")
The Fugitive Kind
MadMan
10-23-2008, 10:00 PM
Weekend:
*Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers(1988)
*Halloween 5: The Revenge of Michael Myers(1989)
*Pepping Tom(1960)
*Vampyr - Der Traum des Allan Grey(1932)-This last one is a second viewing. I'm looking forward to seeing a decent print of this film.
Ezee E
10-23-2008, 10:45 PM
Rachel Getting Married
W.
You Can Count On Me
Gunnin' For That #1 Spot
Stardust Memories
Yxklyx
10-23-2008, 11:41 PM
Weekend:
Scream
Misery
and more...
*Halloween 5: The Revenge of Michael Myers(1989)
No. Please, no.
megladon8
10-23-2008, 11:56 PM
How do people feel about the films of Shinya Tsukamoto?
Spinal
10-23-2008, 11:56 PM
Weekend:
Iron Man
and
*sigh* *shakes head* ... Indy 4
Spinal
10-23-2008, 11:58 PM
How do people feel about the films of Shinya Tsukamoto?
I liked A Snake of June very much, but thought Tetsuo was irritating and tedious.
megladon8
10-24-2008, 12:07 AM
I liked A Snake of June very much, but thought Tetsuo was irritating and tedious.
Have you seen Vital?
Or Nightmare Detective?
Those two look pretty neat. The first has Tadanobu Asano - he's great.
Spinal
10-24-2008, 12:09 AM
Have you seen Vital?
Or Nightmare Detective?
No, the ones I listed are the only ones I've seen.
megladon8
10-24-2008, 12:11 AM
No, the ones I listed are the only ones I've seen.
Ah, I suppose that would make sense.
Have you seen Vital?
Or Nightmare Detective?
Those two look pretty neat. The first has Tadanobu Asano - he's great.
Vital, yes, yes, yes! One of my all-time favorites.
ND is also very good.
Don't have time to post more thoughts, but I had to say that. I'll come back on it.
MadMan
10-24-2008, 12:40 AM
Weekend:
Scream
Misery
and more...I've been meaning to revisit Scream. I haven't seen it since I was a freshman in high school.
No. Please, no.I must embark upon that journey. I'm going to wait and view the 6th film some other, very special, special, time.
Aka probably never.
Stay Puft
10-24-2008, 12:49 AM
How do people feel about the films of Shinya Tsukamoto?
I love his work.
I just watched Tetsuo II: Body Hammer the other night, and while it was not nearly as accomplished as the first, it still had plenty of memorable moments and images. The style is still there, and it's wonderful. I am drawn to it. I find his cinema irresistable.
And Chu Ishikawa is an integral part of that aesthetic. I love his music.
The Mike
10-24-2008, 12:55 AM
I must embark upon that journey. I'm going to wait and view the 6th film some other, very special, special, time.
Aka probably never.
The sixth movie is about 4,739 times better than Halloween 5. Heck, I can't think of much that's not better than Halloween 5. I don't even think Uwe Boll's ever made a movie as bad as Halloween 5.
The sixth movie is about 4,739 times better than Halloween 5. Heck, I can't think of much that's not better than Halloween 5. I don't even think Uwe Boll's ever made a movie as bad as Halloween 5.
Sorry Mike, you're wrong.
It 4740 times better.
Qrazy
10-24-2008, 01:24 AM
Have you seen Vital?
Or Nightmare Detective?
Those two look pretty neat. The first has Tadanobu Asano - he's great.
Bullet Ballet is where it's at.
Ezee E
10-24-2008, 01:41 AM
Wats, do tell about Cape Fear.
MadMan
10-24-2008, 01:51 AM
The sixth movie is about 4,739 times better than Halloween 5. Heck, I can't think of much that's not better than Halloween 5. I don't even think Uwe Boll's ever made a movie as bad as Halloween 5.So I should see the 6th movie too? Well AMC is showing that one as well. Plus the original first film, since tomorrow night they're celebrating the 30th anniversary of its release.
MacGuffin
10-24-2008, 02:00 AM
So I should see the 6th movie too? Well AMC is showing that one as well. Plus the original first film, since tomorrow night they're celebrating the 30th anniversary of its release.
Isn't AMC edited for television and doesn't it include commercials? I hate to break it to you, but you're not actually seeing the movie that way. Why would you watch a slasher movie on network television?
MadMan
10-24-2008, 02:03 AM
Isn't AMC edited for television and doesn't it include commercials? I hate to break it to you, but you're not actually seeing the movie that way. Why would you watch a slasher movie on network television?I've seen the original before. Three times actually. And um, 4th and 5th are free. I like free stuff. I'll bare with the commercials. They clearly don't affect me too much. And yeah sometimes stuff gets edited. If I really want to see them unedited, I will. But neither one seems to be important enough to warrant the effort. I'm amused by people who get upset over such things.
Raiders
10-24-2008, 02:04 AM
Isn't AMC edited for television and doesn't it include commercials? I hate to break it to you, but you're not actually seeing the movie that way. Why would you watch a slasher movie on network television?
It's not like he's watching Jeanne Dielman. Chill out.
MacGuffin
10-24-2008, 02:07 AM
Why would I be upset about it? I just don't see why you would want to bother watching a style of movie that exists solely from the tension it creates before and during the kill scenes when all the murder sequences are trimmed. I'm probably watching the first movie this weekend.
The Mike
10-24-2008, 02:11 AM
Sorry Mike, you're wrong.
It 4740 times better.
Good point. If forgot to add in the unintentional comedy factor when Michael rigs the clothes dryer to work without electricity.
MadMan, I would recommend seeing all the Halloween sequels as a Myersaholic and completist, but would not really recommend any of them outside of 4 as decent films.
The Mike
10-24-2008, 02:12 AM
And, if AMC shows Halloween in full screen, it's not the same movie. Same goes for any Carpenter flick.
They probably have it right by now, I would hope. :frustrated:
megladon8
10-24-2008, 03:08 AM
Vital, yes, yes, yes! One of my all-time favorites.
ND is also very good.
Don't have time to post more thoughts, but I had to say that. I'll come back on it.
Well, I just got Vital for $9 at a Halloween horror movie sale.
Lookin' forward to it!
Grouchy
10-24-2008, 03:21 AM
Both Tetsuo and Nightmare Detective are incredible.
The guy is like a more perfectionist, body-obsessed version of Miike. And a master at crazy editing.
EDIT: Boy, have I seen me some movies. I'll tell you all about 'em tomorrow.
Dead & Messed Up
10-24-2008, 03:36 AM
And, if AMC shows Halloween in full screen, it's not the same movie. Same goes for any Carpenter flick.
Rep.
And I can't watch horror on television. Suspense cannot co-exist with fullscreen, edited perversions interrupted every seven minutes by the Charmin' bears.
soitgoes...
10-24-2008, 03:37 AM
How do people feel about the films of Shinya Tsukamoto?
I've seen Gemini and Vital, both of which are pretty great.
Ivan Drago
10-24-2008, 03:40 AM
Rep.
And I can't watch horror on television. Suspense cannot co-exist with fullscreen, edited perversions interrupted every seven minutes by the Charmin' bears.
Unless they're in widescreen, I can't watch movies on television, period. Fucking Pan & Scan.
soitgoes...
10-24-2008, 03:43 AM
Weekend viewings:
The Tracker - this time for realz
Peppermint Candy and/or Green Fish
Silent Light
The Edge of Heaven
Ploy
Subtract three or four of the above. Then add a couple not listed, and you'll have my weekend viewings.
balmakboor
10-24-2008, 03:44 AM
Weekend:
Zack and Miri Make a Porno
Pasolini's The Decameron
The Small Back Room
The Burmese Harp
Pop Trash
10-24-2008, 03:52 AM
Weekend:
Synecdoche, New York
Let the Right One In
Rachel Getting Married
I'm way jealous you have the opportunity to see all of these. I'd love to have anyone of them come to my city let alone all three!
balmakboor
10-24-2008, 04:04 AM
I'm way jealous you have the opportunity to see all of these. I'd love to have anyone of them come to my city let alone all three!
Rachel Getting Married is coming soon to my town -- Bismarck, ND. You must really be in the sticks if you're not getting it.
Pop Trash
10-24-2008, 04:12 AM
Rachel Getting Married is coming soon to my town -- Bismarck, ND. You must really be in the sticks if you're not getting it.
Eh, prolly less sticky than Bismark. I'm quite sure Rachel Getting Married will play here eventually. Less sure about the other two.
Kurious Jorge v3.1
10-24-2008, 04:42 AM
Weekend viewings:
The Tracker - this time for realz
Peppermint Candy and/or Green Fish
Silent Light
The Edge of Heaven
Ploy
Subtract three or four of the above. Then add a couple not listed, and you'll have my weekend viewings.
Go for Peppermint Candy over Green Fish. .
Well, I just got Vital for $9 at a Halloween horror movie sale.
Lookin' forward to it!
Awesome, but I'm not sure I would call it a horror, so don't be expecting that so much. Creepy and unsettling, definitely.
Speaking of, I haven't gotten to my aforementioned movies yet--but I did just watch The Strangers after the recommendations here. Pretty good, but maybe dampened a bit by the fact that I already saw Ils. Which I still prefer by a few hairs.
Watashi
10-24-2008, 06:22 AM
Indiana Jones and the Portable Deus Ex Machina (Spielberg, 2008) *1/2.
Heh. I remember when I defended this film. A second viewing has not been kind. First half is still pretty fun, I guess.
Barty has also lowered his enthusiasm, but he'll never admit it.
Watashi
10-24-2008, 06:23 AM
Wats, do tell about Cape Fear.
Amazing B-movie with knockout performances by everyone.
I'll write more when I finish Scorsese's filmography.
SirNewt
10-24-2008, 06:30 AM
I'm still 95% sure that's the film in question :p Someone not paying much attention, could easily miss if it's set in Canada or not. I think.
I looked up 49th Parallel and that's it. It looked great. I checked and it's in my Netflix queue so I bumped it to the top from position 230.
SirNewt
10-24-2008, 06:32 AM
Weekend:
The Burmese Harp
Sweet, I'm a big fan. I think I like "Fires" better though.
SirNewt
10-24-2008, 06:49 AM
EDIT: I suck at the internet.
soitgoes...
10-24-2008, 07:08 AM
Go for Peppermint Candy over Green Fish. .
I'll watch both within the next week, but I might keep the better one for last.
Spinal
10-24-2008, 07:14 AM
Heh. I remember when I defended this film. A second viewing has not been kind. First half is still pretty fun, I guess.
Even when it's kinda fun, it's still really dumb. And then it stops being fun and all you're left with is dumb. Really embarrassing effort.
Winston*
10-24-2008, 07:22 AM
Spinal, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the gophers. Extended thoughts, preferably.
Pop Trash
10-24-2008, 07:27 AM
Even when it's kinda fun, it's still really dumb. And then it stops being fun and all you're left with is dumb. Really embarrassing effort.
You're right. I didn't like Speed Racer either.
Winston*
10-24-2008, 07:35 AM
Pop Trash, I swear to God if you mention Speed Racer one more fucking time, I will PM chrisnu immediately in request for your banning.
Ezee E
10-24-2008, 07:39 AM
Watched The Strangers a second time, and it still works. It may be labeled with the torture porn series of horror films, but it's actually creepy instead of grotesque, and I actually like the characters on screen, instead of just waiting for their time to go.
The sound design is the best this year.
I'll have to check out Them.
Also, I will never watch the Kingdom of Skulls or whatev again.
soitgoes...
10-24-2008, 07:40 AM
Pop Trash, I swear to God if you mention Speed Racer one more fucking time, I will PM chrisnu immediately in request for your banning.Says the man with the gopher fetish.
baby doll
10-24-2008, 09:20 AM
Wes Anderson? He's terrible. Jarmusch is interesting, but has never been great. Brooks never made a great movie either. Spike Lee, Lynch, and Haynes make more sense. I would also put Abel Ferrara, Darren Aronofsky, Michael Mann, Hal Hartley, Mike Nichols, Tony Scott, Richard Linktar, Whit Stillman, Bill Viola, and Terrence Malick all day everyday over the former three you mentioned.Say what?! Anderson is one of the most distinctive stylists around. Jarmusch has been great twice (Stranger Than Paradise, Dead Man) and he's never been bad. And maybe you're thinking of James L. Brooks, because Real Life, Modern Romance, Defending Your Life and Mother are all brilliant films.
I need to see more of Ferrara's work, though I quite liked Mary.
I thought Aronofsky's Pi showed a lot of promise but I find his films get less challenging proportionate to the increase in budget. (That said, I still liked Requiem for a Dream and The Fountain quite a bit.)
I've just seen two films by Mann: The Insider and Collateral, both undistinguished and instantly forgettable.
Richard Linklater should've been on my list. His exclusion was pure oversight.
I liked Whit Stillman's first two films and would like to see The Last Days of Disco, but he's never impressed me as anything more than a rich man's Kevin Smith.
I loved Hartley's first two features, and generally like the others I've seen (No Such Thing, however, is a train wreck), but he hasn't done anything as ambitious as the Godard films he so reverently alludes to.
I've seen a few of Nichols' films and nothing's really impressed me--certainly not half as much as Elaine May's A New Leaf and Mikey and Nicky. Closer in particular seemed to me a Neil Labute film drained of edginess and social commentary. His specialty seems to be churning out square, prestigious adaptations of successful plays. (He's a poor man's Elia Kazan.) I think HBO is a better place for his work than the cinema.
After Domino, I was sufficiently intrigued to go through as much of Scott's back catalogue as I could get my hands on, and what I found is that he has loads of craft but only rarely does he get a script of any substance. Most of his films are slick and boring. Still, he's clearly a better director than Sir Ridley.
I've only seen Viola's earlier, single channel work (I haven't seen anything more recent than The Greeting [1995]), and even then I can't claim any particular expterise, but what I've seen is, for the most part, impressive.
And I loved Malick's first three features, but I was disappointed by The New World because it was too much like his other films. It's a film that plays to its base.
soitgoes...
10-24-2008, 10:14 AM
In M. Hulot's Holiday, the scene where Hulot is painting while sitting in his boat is simply amazing. It's a scene straight out of a Chaplin film.
Spinal, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the gophers. Extended thoughts, preferably.
I'm sorry, but I laughed my ass off at the gopher reaction shot to the rocket sled. And I was even sober....
Watched The Strangers a second time, and it still works. It may be labeled with the torture porn series of horror films, but it's actually creepy instead of grotesque, and I actually like the characters on screen, instead of just waiting for their time to go.
The sound design is the best this year.
I'll have to check out Them.
Also, I will never watch the Kingdom of Skulls or whatev again.
I need to watch it again, but I swear I heard faint footsteps behind me early on in the movie. Not sure if its the part where Liv is getting a drink of water, and you eventually see a guy walk into the room. The sound design kicks ass.
Spinal
10-24-2008, 01:40 PM
You're right. I didn't like Speed Racer either.
Grating.
Raiders
10-24-2008, 01:44 PM
Grating.
Speed Racer? Yes it was!
:twisted:
Raiders
10-24-2008, 02:42 PM
Good news all you homosexuals amongst us; Peter Travers has found the movie for you!
If you're gay and/or eight years old, HSM3 is the movie event of the year.
Izzy Black
10-24-2008, 02:43 PM
Say what?! Anderson is one of the most distinctive stylists around.
Then he should go into fashion. A decorative mise-en-scene and saturated color palette hardly qualifies one as a great stylist as far as I am concerned. His deep wide-angle lens is hallow substantively and the man gives little to nothing to chew on. I am not impressed.
Jarmusch has been great twice (Stranger Than Paradise, Dead Man) and he's never been bad.
Stranger Than Paradise might qualify him, but at best, that puts him alongside Allen, which is not quite trumping him.
And maybe you're thinking of James L. Brooks, because Real Life, Modern Romance, Defending Your Life and Mother are all brilliant films.
I am thinking of Albert Brooks, who has never been good. He is a by-the-numbers, uncinematic, dull dramatist who clearly, like all the other 80s romantic dramedy filmmakers at the time, is aping Woody Allen something awful. I have no idea why you included him on your list, but his films are entirely forgettable and dated. To put this guy over the guy that made his career possible just seems silly to me.
I need to see more of Ferrara's work, though I quite liked Mary
I recommend The Addiction, Bad Lieutenant, and New Rose Hotel.
I thought Aronofsky's Pi showed a lot of promise but I find his films get less challenging proportionate to the increase in budget. (That said, I still liked Requiem for a Dream and The Fountain quite a bit.)
I did not find Requiem for a Dream or The Fountain any less challenging than Pi. In fact, Pi is not incredibly challenging. It is a bit film school amateurish at times, but it is an interesting film no less. In either case, as a stylist with something to say, Wes Anderson is not coming close.
I've just seen two films by Mann: The Insider and Collateral, both undistinguished and instantly forgettable.
Mann is a self-made stylish and you should see Miami Vice and Heat for clear evidence. Collateral and The Insider carry much of his LA atmospherics, however.
I liked Whit Stillman's first two films and would like to see The Last Days of Disco, but he's never impressed me as anything more than a rich man's Kevin Smith.
Except Kevin Smith is apolitical and uncritical. The comparison is bunk. Stillman is invoking a European tradition more than an American one.
I loved Hartley's first two features, and generally like the others I've seen (No Such Thing, however, is a train wreck), but he hasn't done anything as ambitious as the Godard films he so reverently alludes to.
OK - Hartley is no Godard. I am not sure that says anything. He is still making good movies, Fay Grim being the most recent, and is far more interesting than dull, by-the-numbers Brooks and hallow Anderson.
I've seen a few of Nichols' films and nothing's really impressed me--certainly not half as much as Elaine May's A New Leaf and Mikey and Nicky. Closer in particular seemed to me a Neil Labute film drained of edginess and social commentary. His specialty seems to be churning out square, prestigious adaptations of successful plays. (He's a poor man's Elia Kazan.) I think HBO is a better place for his work than the cinema.
Neil Labute? That's off. I see little relationship (as with most of your comparative reaches). Neil Labute deals with misogyny and masculine identity codes, which puts him closer to the camp of David Mamet. I suppose you think anyone who deals with relationship ethics invariably qualifies them as an either weaker or stronger Labute, since he is somehow an authority; not quite, his nihilism is not particularly Nichols' cup of tea. More properly, Nichols comes from the Rohmer camp, and is more concerned with relationships and liberated bourgeois identities.
After Domino, I was sufficiently intrigued to go through as much of Scott's back catalogue as I could get my hands on, and what I found is that he has loads of craft but only rarely does he get a script of any substance. Most of his films are slick and boring. Still, he's clearly a better director than Sir Ridley.
I am only looking at his late work (save The Hunger -- his late work is a return to form, I think). Enemy of the State, Domino, Man on Fire, and Deja Vu are all interesting films, albeit flawed. I find him immensely more fascinating than, again, Wes Anderson.
And I loved Malick's first three features, but I was disappointed by The New World because it was too much like his other films. It's a film that plays to its base.
He is yet another living American director who has made films Wes Anderson can only take notes from and wish to make.
Wryan
10-24-2008, 02:53 PM
Good news all you homosexuals amongst us; Peter Travers has found the movie for you!
Nice.
NickGlass
10-24-2008, 03:55 PM
I'm deeply offended.
Wryan
10-24-2008, 03:56 PM
I'm deeply offended.
As an eight-year-old or as a gay?
Ezee E
10-24-2008, 04:29 PM
I need to watch it again, but I swear I heard faint footsteps behind me early on in the movie. Not sure if its the part where Liv is getting a drink of water, and you eventually see a guy walk into the room. The sound design kicks ass.
Yup, that's one where I'd really like to have surround sound blasted.
Yup, that's one where I'd really like to have surround sound blasted.
The Blu-Ray version has been added to my 'Christmas List'. We'll see if I wait that long... :P
Pop Trash
10-24-2008, 05:43 PM
Speed Racer? Yes it was!
:twisted:
:lol:
D_Davis
10-24-2008, 05:47 PM
I'm offended and I'm straight and 33.
baby doll
10-24-2008, 06:01 PM
Then he should go into fashion. A decorative mise-en-scene and saturated color palette hardly qualifies one as a great stylist as far as I am concerned. His deep wide-angle lens is hallow substantively and the man gives little to nothing to chew on. I am not impressed.Isn't mise-en-scène always, to a large degree, decorative? As for his colour palette, as in most films, it's an indication of tone. A more sombre, Eastwood-esque look would hardly suit a film like The Royal Tenenbaums. That said, he's hardly pumping out light weight fare. Seeing The Life Aquatic With Steve Zsissou again the other night, I was struck by how unlikeable the Bill Murray character is.
Stranger Than Paradise might qualify him, but at best, that puts him alongside Allen, which is not quite trumping him.Dead Man is much darker and more ambitious than anything Allen's even attempted.
I am thinking of Albert Brooks, who has never been good. He is a by-the-numbers, uncinematic, dull dramatist who clearly, like all the other 80s romantic dramedy filmmakers at the time, is aping Woody Allen something awful. I have no idea why you included him on your list, but his films are entirely forgettable and dated. To put this guy over the guy that made his career possible just seems silly to me.I don't what uncinematic means. If style is simply the physical substance of a motion picture--light, shadow, camera placement, sound, montage, acting style--then no film is more or less cinematic than any other.
There is, however, such a thing as boring direction. But in Brooks' case, there's a lot to admire on this front--admittedly more so in his early films, where he pursued his long take style more vigorously. Still, his later films are hardly by-the-numbers. Even in a film as late as Mother, his tendency towards longer than average shot lengths and relatively few close-ups help move the performances towards greater realism. (He relies on music more heavily here, and employs it more conventionally--especially in relation to Modern Romance--and I suspect it's as a result of studio interference.)
In relation to Allen, I think his earlier films, especially Real Life and Modern Romance, are a lot edgier than anything I've seen by Allen. Brooks doesn't care if we like him (or at least he didn't then). When has Allen ever burned down some one's house?
I recommend The Addiction, Bad Lieutenant, and New Rose Hotel.Thanks for the recommendations. I'm also pumped to see The Driller Killer, Ms. 45, Body Snatchers, The Funeral and Go Go Tales.
I did not find Requiem for a Dream or The Fountain any less challenging than Pi. In fact, Pi is not incredibly challenging. It is a bit film school amateurish at times, but it is an interesting film no less. In either case, as a stylist with something to say, Wes Anderson is not coming close.What does he have to say that's so important? There's a fine line between genius and madness? Diet pills are just as bad as heroin? Death is really change, and when you die you become something else?
I'm less interested in what he says that how he says it. Stylistically, Pi was no less distinctive than Rushmore--admittedly, a little rough in spots, but still an impressive first film. Requiem for a Dream, with a bigger budget, was a much slicker, more confident film, but it was also less ambitious. And The Fountain retreats completely into a more conventional style.
Mann is a self-made stylish and you should see Miami Vice and Heat for clear evidence. Collateral and The Insider carry much of his LA atmospherics, however.I'll concede he has a strong sense of atmosphere, but in terms of plot, I found Collateral disjointed and episodic to the point that I could never get as involved in the story as I felt I should've. The film takes place over a single night and I can't reall how many people get shot, but it some how lacked urgency. The Insider is both more ambitious and more compelling as storytelling, so I'm not sure why I found it so forgettable. Maybe I need to give it another look. I'll get around to Heat one of these days, but I dunno about Miami Vice. If Mann wanted to do it "right," why allude to the TV show at all?
Except Kevin Smith is apolitical and uncritical. The comparison is bunk. Stillman is invoking a European tradition more than an American one.By "European tradition," I guess you mean he's aping Rohmer more than sex, lies & videotape and Stilman's own apings of Rohmer's style. And I'm not sure how Barcelona, an American neo-con's view of American foreign policy, isn't uncritical.
OK - Hartley is no Godard. I am not sure that says anything. He is still making good movies, Fay Grim being the most recent, and is far more interesting than dull, by-the-numbers Brooks and hallow Anderson.It's not that Hartley doesn't take risks (The Girl From Monday supplies plenty of evidence to the contrary), but I wish he'd be more ambitious or at least darker.
Neil Labute? That's off. I see little relationship (as with most of your comparative reaches). Neil Labute deals with misogyny and masculine identity codes, which puts him closer to the camp of David Mamet. I suppose you think anyone who deals with relationship ethics invariably qualifies them as an either weaker or stronger Labute, since he is somehow an authority; not quite, his nihilism is not particularly Nichols' cup of tea. More properly, Nichols comes from the Rohmer camp, and is more concerned with relationships and liberated bourgeois identities.The connection between Nichols and Labute has more to do with their respective attempts at filmed theatre than their themes. Neither one is particularly impressive as a stylist, but Labute's content is darker and more critical. Closer is a film about "unlikeable" people for audiences who need like the characters, or at least having empathy for them, to enjoy the film. Labute's original screenplays usually have one nice character, but that doesn't let the others off the hook so much as provide a point of referrence for their awful behavior.
I am only looking at his late work (save The Hunger -- his late work is a return to form, I think). Enemy of the State, Domino, Man on Fire, and Deja Vu are all interesting films, albeit flawed. I find him immensely more fascinating than, again, Wes Anderson.I found Enemy of the State to be a shopworn, sub-post-Watergate paranoia thriller (and if the connection was lost on anyone, the film cops to it by casting Gene Hackman) that I started to forget before it was over. Man on Fire was racist and absurd, but more importantly, Scott's mise-en-scène, outside the action scenes, was insufficiently decorative with the camera craning around two characters standing in a room before moving into alternating close ups as quickly as possible.
He is yet another living American director who has made films Wes Anderson can only take notes from and wish to make.I'd rank both of them higher than Allen. Each has a distinctive style, and with both, I'm not sure where they can go from here.
From Badlands to Days of Heaven to The Thin Red Line, Malick seemed to grow in leaps and bounds from one film to the next, so I was all the more disappointed to see him treading water in The New World.
I have little use for Anderson's Bottle Rocket, but Rushmore was a major stylistic breakthrough. The Royal Tenenbaums was more ambitious and more refined (slicker), but where was there to go from there? The Life Aquatic is a darker film, and it breaks new ground thematically in terms of self reflexivity (there's plenty to chew on with regards to the filmmaking process itself, and how everything becomes fiction). And as Michael Sicinski noted at the time of the film's release, Anderson's style is less rigid here. But The Darjeeling Limited, though masterfully executed (which is more than I can say for The New World, which is a bit of a mess and a bore), takes very few risks.
Duncan
10-24-2008, 06:23 PM
I'm always eager to bash The Fountain, but the one thing I won't do is call its style conventional.
Qrazy
10-24-2008, 06:24 PM
I'm always eager to bash The Fountain, but the one thing I won't do is call its style conventional.
Yeah not quite sure what that criticism was about... it was primarily the love story that didn't work for me.
Kurosawa Fan
10-24-2008, 07:55 PM
I watched My Kid Could Paint That last night. I came away with the certainty that Marla didn't paint most of those paintings. That was surprising. Not sure the mother was aware of what was going on (she seemed genuine), but it was pretty clear the father was at the very least cleaning them up and making the paintings more interesting, if not doing all of it himself. The film itself felt like a long TV special. It was worth seeing, but nothing to get excited about.
Melville
10-24-2008, 08:05 PM
I watched My Kid Could Paint That last night. I came away with the certainty that Marla didn't paint most of those paintings. That was surprising. Not sure the mother was aware of what was going on (she seemed genuine), but it was pretty clear the father was at the very least cleaning them up and making the paintings more interesting, if not doing all of it himself. The film itself felt like a long TV special. It was worth seeing, but nothing to get excited about.
Wow. After seeing the footage that the parents shot, in which Marla clearly seems to paint with creativity and purpose, I thought it was pretty clear that she was doing the paintings (or at least some of them). After that, I wondered why the director kept harping on the question and basically badgering the parents. It just made him come off as needlessly confrontational. I think the film would have been much better if it had focused on people's response to the paintings, as a means of examining society's perception of modern art, rather than focusing so much on who actually painted them.
Kurosawa Fan
10-24-2008, 08:20 PM
Wow. After seeing the footage that the parents shot, in which Marla clearly seems to paint with creativity and purpose, I thought it was pretty clear that she was doing the paintings (or at least some of them). After that, I wondered why the director kept harping on the question and basically badgering the parents. It just made him come off as needlessly confrontational. I think the film would have been much better if it had focused on people's response to the paintings, as a means of examining society's perception of modern art, rather than focusing so much on who actually painted them.
Seriously??? I mean, she's good for a 4 year old, but that Ocean painting looked no better than the 60 Minutes painting, and it wasn't even close to the paintings in her first show. Not a chance that those first paintings were made without influence of someone else. Every painting she did on camera was basically the same technique. She showed none of the skill needed to create those early works.
balmakboor
10-24-2008, 08:45 PM
I thought it was intentionally inconclusive whether or not Marla painted the works herself. That things are uncertain was the source of most of the film's interest.
Kurosawa Fan
10-24-2008, 09:01 PM
I thought it was intentionally inconclusive whether or not Marla painted the works herself. That things are uncertain was the source of most of the film's interest.
I think it started out that way, but by the end the director even put himself on camera calling the parents liars. He said he felt bad about it, and they were some of the nicest people he knew, but that he felt there was no way she was painting that stuff. Plus, his focus on the woman who's pressured to purchase Ocean was telling.
Oh, and how big a slimeball was Marla's "agent", the owner of that local art gallery? What a douche.
Rowland
10-24-2008, 09:02 PM
The action sequences in the first half of Indy 4 had some pop to them, and I thought the scene with the nuclear testing site was genuinely clever, but the movie grows increasingly tedious and contrived when Jones and his son go to South America. Karen Allen is downright irritating, as are most of the attempts at humor and pathos. Oddly enough, I think Spielberg's most inspired direction is during the opening credits.
Bosco B Thug
10-24-2008, 09:24 PM
Oddly enough, I think Spielberg's most inspired direction is during the opening credits. Yeah, that was pretty much the high point of the film.
Spinal
10-24-2008, 11:18 PM
Speed Racer? Yes it was!
:twisted:
Ah, so we're encouraging Pop Trash to randomly respond to every third post by referencing his dislike for Speed Racer. I was thinking that it was universally considered tiresome and that he should know that it probably makes people like him less. My mistake.
Spinal
10-24-2008, 11:21 PM
Karen Allen is downright irritating, as are most of the attempts at humor and pathos.
Karen Allen's character was a real disappointment. And she certainly had something to do with that. But, to be fair, all that obnoxious family connection stuff is intensely stupid. It was dumb with Sean Connery in the third film and it's even worse here.
Kurious Jorge v3.1
10-24-2008, 11:24 PM
Just got finished with Clive Donner's Whats New Pussycat?. Complete garbage. It contains groan-out-load parodies of art house cinema and the Guido whipping women scene from 8 1/2. There are some inspiring comedic moments but they are few.
If you want smart Brit comedy from this period, you check out The Knack and How to Get It. If you want stupid, you watch the films of Clive Donner.
Just got finished with Clive Donner's Whats New Pussycat?. Complete garbage. It contains groan-out-load parodies of art house cinema and the Guido whipping women scene from 8 1/2. There are some inspiring comedic moments but they are few.
Ad it's boring, too.
Clive Donner: the poor man's Richard Lester.
Qrazy
10-25-2008, 12:07 AM
Karen Allen's character was a real disappointment. And she certainly had something to do with that. But, to be fair, all that obnoxious family connection stuff is intensely stupid. It was dumb with Sean Connery in the third film and it's even worse here.
Nah it was awesome with Connery.
Boner M
10-25-2008, 12:09 AM
I thought The Knack was pretty lame. I'd still like to see more Lester.
megladon8
10-25-2008, 12:13 AM
The Last Crusade was the best Indy film, largely because of the Connery/Ford stuff.
Yxklyx
10-25-2008, 12:16 AM
Amazing B-movie with knockout performances by everyone.
I'll write more when I finish Scorsese's filmography.
Have you seen the original? It's really bizarre that the remake uses the same music soundtrack from the original. Mitchum is pretty outstanding in that one.
Ezee E
10-25-2008, 01:36 AM
New Bunnies (http://www.starz.com/promotions/bunnies)
Grindhouse, No Country For Old Men, and Goodfellas are all pretty hilarious. "I had two dreams, and then I woke up."
Raiders
10-25-2008, 01:50 AM
I thought The Knack was pretty lame. I'd still like to see more Lester.
I rather liked it, though it's his 1964 Beatles film I consider necessary viewing. I would also like to see more, including his Superman film which some hate and some consider an interesting, and somewhat contemptuous, diversion from the first two.
Boner M
10-25-2008, 01:54 AM
Oh, I've seen (and love) A Hard Day's Night.
Qrazy
10-25-2008, 01:57 AM
Help! is also fairly hilarious. I wouldn't say it's particularly great on a cinematic level but it's good fun.
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