28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[baby doll]

Oh, and he probably doesn’f think Bresson is cinema, because Bresson doesn’t care about emoting?Emoting ≠ Emotion

[Dukefrukem]

Please post this outside the thread so I can attack you for it


There's no film on here you can convince me otherwise. That includes all three Mummy movies.

https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/remake-adaptations-reboots-better-than-the/

[Irish]

There's no film on here you can convince me otherwise. That includes all three Mummy movies.

https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/remake-adaptations-reboots-better-than-the/

Who said anything about convincing you?

I just wanted to hit you about the head and neck with a blunt object

smacc
smacc
smacc

;)

[Irish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWMNDgOPTBY

^ RDJ on Scorsese's comments.

[Dukefrukem]

I heard that live. He more or less shrugged it off.

[Grouchy]

"I mean, it plays in theaters" was a pretty subtle snide comment, right?

[Dukefrukem]

"I mean, it plays in theaters" was a pretty subtle snide comment, right?

So is saying a Marvel movie is a theme park.

[Yxklyx]

The Florida Project is still the best movie I've seen in the past few years.

[Irish]

Nicolas Winding Refn is doing a TV show based on "Maniac Cop" and HBO picked up the NA distribution rights. Whaaaa tf. This sounds too weird to be true.

https://deadline.com/2019/10/maniac-cop-tv-series-remake-reimagening-nicolas-winding-refn-hbo-canal-bynwr-originals-1202757504/

[TGM]

Wish he’d go back to making movies instead of shows. >.>

[Ivan Drago]

That is the best entertainment news I've read all year.

[Dukefrukem]

Wish he’d go back to making movies instead of shows. >.>

I'm fine with him doing none of the above.

[TGM]

But... but his movies are so good. o.O

[Grouchy]

His movies are excellent and actually getting better and better. I just don't watch TV these days - there are too many options, too little time.

[TGM]

I just don't watch TV these days - there are too many options, too little time.

Yup, this is the same boat that I’m in.

[Dukefrukem]

I guess I only really hated Only God Forgives. One bad movie, and you reach 'Duke's Mental Hate list'... I forgot about Drive entirely and Valhalla Rising

[TGM]

And The Neon Demon. ;)

[Skitch]

Only God Forgives was okay but didn't really go anywhere in the end imo.

Drive was the best movie that year.

[Ezee E]

Another Refn discussion eh?

[PURPLE]

Emoting ≠ Emotion"It isn’t the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being."

Bresson is not the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another being. That is "emoting" - the conveying.

Scorsese is full of shit, as usual.

[baby doll]

"It isn’t the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being."

Bresson is not the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another being. That is "emoting" - the conveying.It seems you have a rather low estimation of the potential for cinema to be an expressive art form in general and Bresson's films in particular, which I find extremely moving, although they need to be seen on the big screen to achieve their full impact. I saw Au hasard Balthazar on projected 35mm a few years ago, and even without emotive acting, I found it overwhelmingly powerful (far more so, indeed, than any of Scorsese's films).

Incidentally, when an interviewer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVODh2lkVdc) asked him if he thinks people understand his films, Bresson's response was, "I'd rather people feel a film before understanding it."

[PURPLE]

It seems you have a rather low estimation of the potential for cinema to be an expressive art form in general and Bresson's films in particular, which I find extremely moving, although they need to be seen on the big screen to achieve their full impact. I saw Au hasard Balthazar on projected 35mm a few years ago, and even without emotive acting, I found it overwhelmingly powerful (far more so, indeed, than any of Scorsese's films).

Incidentally, when an interviewer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVODh2lkVdc) asked him if he thinks people understand his films, Bresson's response was, "I'd rather people feel a film before understanding it."No.

I didn't say anything bad about Bresson. I used Bresson as an example of someone that absolutely does not meet Scorsese's criteria to show that Scorsese's statement was bullshit. Obviously, the only reason I would use an example is if I thought they were good and didn't meet Scorsese's criteria. That the films are moving does not mean that they meet Scorsese's criteria: "human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being." He says this specifically and explicitly in the context of actors, meant to contrast with the impossibility of creating meaningful art while acting against a greenscreen. Clearly, Bresson didn't find any issue with it being difficult to act in a convincing and realistic manner, whether against greenscreens or not, because he didn't find that important at all. Which is to say: According to Scorsese's criteria, Bresson's films aren't real cinema because the actors don't emote to each other - and Scorsese is full of shit. Simple.

[Yxklyx]

Bresson's characters are like empty vessels we pour ourselves into (that's a compliment) - and Refn hasn't done anything great since his Pusher films way back when.

[Grouchy]

No.

I didn't say anything bad about Bresson. I used Bresson as an example of someone that absolutely does not meet Scorsese's criteria to show that Scorsese's statement was bullshit. Obviously, the only reason I would use an example is if I thought they were good and didn't meet Scorsese's criteria. That the films are moving does not mean that they meet Scorsese's criteria: "human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being." He says this specifically and explicitly in the context of actors, meant to contrast with the impossibility of creating meaningful art while acting against a greenscreen. Clearly, Bresson didn't find any issue with it being difficult to act in a convincing and realistic manner, whether against greenscreens or not, because he didn't find that important at all. Which is to say: According to Scorsese's criteria, Bresson's films aren't real cinema because the actors don't emote to each other - and Scorsese is full of shit. Simple.

Scorsese wasn't talking about acting at all with that quote but about the intentions of the MCU filmmakers in making the movies. I think he just mentioned the actors in the previous sentence mostly to take the blame off them ("doing the best they can under the circumstances" and all), and you're selling Marty very short if you think he has such a narrow view of cinema in general. Bresson, as a filmmaker, absolutely wants you to feel emotional and psychological experiences of other human beings. He just rejects the traditional way in which actors emote because that's his thing. He'd rather express emotion through the frames and the editing. Frankly, I don't want to provoke a fight of anything, but you don't understand either filmmaker.

Also, Scorsese wasn't writing an essay. He answered a question orally about his own tastes and it got blown completely out of proportion.

[baby doll]

I have to second Grouchy on this: There's nothing in Scorsese's answer to the question to suggest he views expressive acting as being indispensable to cinematic expression. (Nor for that matter did he say there was anything inherently wrong with green screen effects. Didn't Scorsese use a ton of them himself in Hugo?)

[PURPLE]

Whatever it is that Scorsese said, it doesn't really matter, because there's nothing you can say about comic book films that you can't say about his endless crime films and hyper-masculine films. OMG MUCH EMOTION! Please. Crime media is so cheap and easy and uninteresting, and he does the same thing over and over. Maybe if he didn't spend so much time making such silly films his other films wouldn't be so completely out of touch with human life, as well. Oh, wait - Taxi Driver, The King of Comedy, Aviator, Bringing Out the Dead, Shutter Island - he's so in touch with real human emotions! Or - maybe:

The man has only one look for Christ's sake! Blue Steel? Ferrari? Le Tigre? They're the same face! Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

[transmogrifier]

Whatever it is that Scorsese said, it doesn't really matter, because there's nothing you can say about comic book films that you can't say about his endless crime films and hyper-masculine films. OMG MUCH EMOTION! Please. Crime media is so cheap and easy and uninteresting, and he does the same thing over and over.

When you have to ignore a good portion of the man's filmography to make a point (New York, New York, After Hours, The King of Comedy, The Last Temptation of Christ, The Age of Innocence, Kundun, Silence...) it may well be that your point is kind of silly.

[baby doll]

Whatever it is that Scorsese said, it doesn't really matter, because there's nothing you can say about comic book films that you can't say about his endless crime films and hyper-masculine films. OMG MUCH EMOTION! Please. Crime media is so cheap and easy and uninteresting, and he does the same thing over and over. Maybe if he didn't spend so much time making such silly films his other films wouldn't be so completely out of touch with human life, as well. Oh, wait - Taxi Driver, The King of Comedy, Aviator, Bringing Out the Dead, Shutter Island - he's so in touch with real human emotions! Or - maybe:

The man has only one look for Christ's sake! Blue Steel? Ferrari? Le Tigre? They're the same face! Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
"A film is not what it is about, but how it is about it. A good film or a bad film can be made about anything. Therefore, to dismiss (or praise) a film solely because of its subject matter, it is not necessary to see it. That is why people who make statements beginning with the words 'I don't like films about...' are idiots, or censors."
—Roger Ebert

[Dukefrukem]

When you have to ignore a good portion of the man's filmography to make a point (New York, New York, After Hours, The King of Comedy, The Last Temptation of Christ, The Age of Innocence, Kundun, Silence...) it may well be that your point is kind of silly.

The Last Temptation of Christ is the ultimate superhero film. #stolenjoke

[Grouchy]

Whatever it is that Scorsese said, it doesn't really matter, because there's nothing you can say about comic book films that you can't say about his endless crime films and hyper-masculine films. OMG MUCH EMOTION! Please. Crime media is so cheap and easy and uninteresting, and he does the same thing over and over. Maybe if he didn't spend so much time making such silly films his other films wouldn't be so completely out of touch with human life, as well. Oh, wait - Taxi Driver, The King of Comedy, Aviator, Bringing Out the Dead, Shutter Island - he's so in touch with real human emotions! Or - maybe:

The man has only one look for Christ's sake! Blue Steel? Ferrari? Le Tigre? They're the same face! Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
You might be confusing Scorsese with Guy Ritchie. Scorsese grew up in a mob-heavy neighborhood and with Mean Streets or Goodfellas he's talking about stuff he lived at least close enough to witness. If you listen to interviews with him he often points out specific scenes that were inspired by those early experiences.

There is only one example of Scorsese sort of making the same movie again, and that's the Goodfellas and Casino double-whammy, and that's just because the idea for making the latter originated while they were writing the former with Nicholas Pileggi, and they share the same kind of rythm, some of the cast and the quasi-documentary approach to the real story. I don't even have to list examples of the variety of different films he has made because you already did that for me on your own post. Also, the accusation that he doesn't care about his female characters is old and stale and implies that the person making it hasn't seen Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore.

[Skitch]

The Last Temptation of Christ is the ultimate superhero film. #stolenjoke

#iseeyou #mustspreadrep

[Skitch]

What Marty said is irrelevant. We must stand up for ourselves! In the same way that most filmmakers scoff at critics, we (for the most part, aside from a few here that are in fact filmmakers, fall into the category of "critics", professional or not) shouldn't care what he thinks. Sorry not sorry but whether its Scorese or Uwe Boll, when you shit all over critics, you dont get expect us to value your criticism.

I dont mean this as a negative on them. Have your opinion. I have no fucks. It impacts neither my opinion of the movies your criticizing or the films you make/making.

[baby doll]

There is only one example of Scorsese sort of making the same movie again, and that's the Goodfellas and Casino double-whammy, and that's just because the idea for making the latter originated while they were writing the former with Nicholas Pileggi, and they share the same kind of rythm, some of the cast and the quasi-documentary approach to the real story.All the same, the end result is pretty stale, a somewhat ungainly hybrid of Scorsese's greatest hits (Pesci's psycho mobster from Goodfellas, DeNiro's disintegrating marriage to a morally dubious blonde bombshell from Raging Bull) and assorted spare parts from the French New Wave (the theme music from Godard's Le Mépris, Truffaut-esque iris effects). It's slick and entertaining but far from peak Scorsese.

[baby doll]

What Marty said is irrelevant. We must stand up for ourselves! In the same way that most filmmakers scoff at critics, we (for the most part, aside from a few here that are in fact filmmakers, fall into the category of "critics", professional or not) shouldn't care what he thinks. Sorry not sorry but whether its Scorese or Uwe Boll, when you shit all over critics, you dont get expect us to value your criticism.

I dont mean this as a negative on them. Have your opinion. I have no fucks. It impacts neither my opinion of the movies your criticizing or the films you make/making.Okay, but what's the case for the MCU films?

[transmogrifier]

All the same, the end result is pretty stale, a somewhat ungainly hybrid of Scorsese's greatest hits (Pesci's psycho mobster from Goodfellas, DeNiro's disintegrating marriage to a morally dubious blonde bombshell from Raging Bull) and assorted spare parts from the French New Wave (the theme music from Godard's Le Mépris, Truffaut-esque iris effects). It's slick and entertaining but far from peak Scorsese.

Casino is better than GoodFellas, IMO. Does a better job of contrasting surface flash with the unsavory backend.

[PURPLE]

"A film is not what it is about, but how it is about it. A good film or a bad film can be made about anything. Therefore, to dismiss (or praise) a film solely because of its subject matter, it is not necessary to see it. That is why people who make statements beginning with the words 'I don't like films about...' are idiots, or censors."
—Roger Ebertlol I laughed when I saw Ebert at the bottom.

It's funny that Ebert's quote contradicts Scorsese's blind dislike of comic book films that he also claims to not watch LOLOLOLOLOL

[PURPLE]

You might be confusing Scorsese with Guy Ritchie. Scorsese grew up in a mob-heavy neighborhood and with Mean Streets or Goodfellas he's talking about stuff he lived at least close enough to witness. If you listen to interviews with him he often points out specific scenes that were inspired by those early experiences.lol yeah and Sarah Palin can see Russia from her house, so she is the next Sokurov. You might be confusing Scorsese with... someone who didn't major in English at university.
There is only one example of Scorsese sort of making the same movie again, and that's the Goodfellas and Casino double-whammy, and that's just because the idea for making the latter originated while they were writing the former with Nicholas Pileggi, and they share the same kind of rythm, some of the cast and the quasi-documentary approach to the real story. I don't even have to list examples of the variety of different films he has made because you already did that for me on your own post. Also, the accusation that he doesn't care about his female characters is old and stale and implies that the person making it hasn't seen Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore.Scorsese does quasi-documentary in the same way Keeping Up With the Kardashians does. I also never said whatever you said that I said, and I don't really care that he made one film about a woman. He's made a lot of films. A lot.

Or is Scorsese often confused for Kelly Reichardt? I don't understand.

I still stand by the statement that I am not very impressed by the many Scorsese films I have seen. Because it can't really be any other way, since that's the way it is.

[PURPLE]

Okay, but what's the case for the MCU films?They're all different, so there is no case except to discuss each one that any person might find worth making a case for. That's kind of the point of Scorsese's quote being stupid, no?

I did one for one of the few that I watched!

GotG2 (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?6759-Guardians-of-the-Galaxy-Vol-2-(James-Gunn)/page2&p=592313&viewfull=1#post592313)

[Grouchy]

I still stand by the statement that I am not very impressed by the many Scorsese films I have seen. Because it can't really be any other way, since that's the way it is.
Yeah, there's no accounting for taste. Yours is shitty, but it's all yours.


They're all different, so there is no case except to discuss each one that any person might find worth making a case for. That's kind of the point of Scorsese's quote being stupid, no?
Heh, no, actually, most MCU films follow roughly the same formula. Hell, I like them, but they found out what worked and stuck with that but for a few exceptions.

[baby doll]

lol I laughed when I saw Ebert at the bottom.

It's funny that Ebert's quote contradicts Scorsese's blind dislike of comic book films that he also claims to not watch LOLOLOLOLOLExcept, of course, that Scorsese didn't criticize comic book films generally, only Marvel comic book films (as I mentioned earlier in this thread, he did sign on to produce Joker), and he wasn't criticizing them for their subject matter but for privileging sensation over emotion.

[transmogrifier]

I realize that taste is subjective, but holding the opinion that all Scorsese films are the same at the same time as believing that all MCU movies are different is as close to objectively wrong as you could possibly be when analyzing a finished film. It's pretty impressive, actually.

[baby doll]

I realize that taste is subjective, but holding the opinion that all Scorsese films are the same at the same time as believing that all MCU movies are different is as close to objectively wrong as you could possibly be when analyzing a finished film. It's pretty impressive, actually.I wouldn't say that. As is often the case on social media, the real intent of Purple's posts is to construct an online identity (rather than arguing the merits of any film), and his/her only means of doing so is to insult other people's online identities (e.g., Scorsese and his fans). Only he/she is really bad at this, and in trying to slag Scorsese for things he never said, Purple only makes himself/herself look foolish.

[PURPLE]

I wouldn't say that. As is often the case on social media, the real intent of Purple's posts is to construct an online identity (rather than arguing the merits of any film), and his/her only means of doing so is to insult other people's online identities (e.g., Scorsese and his fans). Only he/she is really bad at this, and in trying to slag Scorsese for things he never said, Purple only makes himself/herself look foolish.lol I never said anything about Scorsese fans. What a silly person you are.

[baby doll]

lol I never said anything about Scorsese fans. What a silly person you are.I rest my case.

[PURPLE]

Yeah, there's no accounting for taste. Yours is shitty, but it's all yours.lol what is this supposed to even mean? You don't know my tastes, and why would I care what you thought of them? So strange!

Heh, no, actually, most MCU films follow roughly the same formula. Hell, I like them, but they found out what worked and stuck with that but for a few exceptions.Sure, right, generalities, they're all narrative conflict based cinema, same as all Scorsese films. The third Thor film is a parody of the first two, though, which doesn't really fit the idea that they're all the same or that they follow a formula or that they're a homogenous set.

Now, granted, I watch few of them because I don't watch much Hollywood narrative conflict based cinema, but as far as that goes, I'll take them over Scorsese awful shit like (insert most of the Scorsese shit I've seen). Except The Depahhhhted because OMG EMOTIONS! SO MUCH ORIGINAL!

[PURPLE]

I rest my case.If only you would stop replying to my posts lol do you actually think I take anything you say seriously after the nonsense "debate" we had before?

[baby doll]

If only you would stop replying to my posts lol do you actually think I take anything you say seriously after the nonsense "debate" we had before?Subtext: "I care very much what you and Grouchy think, but because I'm feeling cornered in this argument, I need to shut down the conversation quickly by dismissing you both, as if there were no point in discussing this topic with you guys even though I've been discussing this topic with you for hours."

[transmogrifier]

lol what is this supposed to even mean? You don't know my tastes, and why would I care what you thought of them? So strange!
Sure, right, generalities, they're all narrative conflict based cinema, same as all Scorsese films. The third Thor film is a parody of the first two, though, which doesn't really fit the idea that they're all the same or that they follow a formula or that they're a homogenous set.

Now, granted, I watch few of them because I don't watch much Hollywood narrative conflict based cinema, but as far as that goes, I'll take them over Scorsese awful shit like (insert most of the Scorsese shit I've seen). Except The Depahhhhted because OMG EMOTIONS! SO MUCH ORIGINAL!

Welcome, redditor from r/movies. Are you on vacation or something?

[Dukefrukem]

I realize that taste is subjective, but holding the opinion that all Scorsese films are the same at the same time as believing that all MCU movies are different is as close to objectively wrong as you could possibly be when analyzing a finished film. It's pretty impressive, actually.

Dude. Casino and Goodfellas are the same film.

[transmogrifier]

Dude. Casino and Goodfellas are the same film.

Um, he's saying all Scorsese films are the same. Unless Scorsese has made just two films, I don't know what you're getting at.

[Dukefrukem]

Um, he's saying all Scorsese films are the same. Unless Scorsese has made just two films, I don't know what you're getting at.

Iron Man 3 is not the same as Thor Ragnarok. Just pointing that out to you for the 37th time. Unless the MCU consists of just Black Panther and Doctor Strange, I don't know what you're ever getting at.

[MadMan]

I kind of feel that Casino and Goodfellas are a bit different in that one features a couple of not very high up mob guys and the other one covers two guys who ran an entire city. Also I really need to see Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore.

[MadMan]

Iron Man 3 is not the same as Thor Ragnarok. Just pointing that out to you for the 37th time. Unless the MCU consists of just Black Panther and Doctor Strange, I don't know what you're ever getting at.

Wait I thought the MCU was only Captain America movies and Captain Marvel wink wink.

[Skitch]

Okay, but what's the case for the MCU films?

Does there need to be one?

[transmogrifier]

Iron Man 3 is not the same as Thor Ragnarok. Just pointing that out to you for the 37th time. Unless the MCU consists of just Black Panther and Doctor Strange, I don't know what you're ever getting at.

Then let's just drop it, shall we? You love the MCU, I do not. I find them all samey and superficial (still have not had the desire to rewatch a single one), you do not. You think Scorsese films are all the same because of GoodFellas and Casino. About cover it? Good. Let's move on.

[megladon8]

Jesus Christ I hate fandom so much.

[Ezee E]

Jesus Christ I hate fandom so much.

I hate your fucking face.

[transmogrifier]

I hate your fucking face.

That's the spirit!

[transmogrifier]

Jesus Christ I hate fandom so much.

I think you should be able to love anything you want in any way you want - as long as you are able to handle criticism from some people who don't like it. And by "handle" I don't even mean "listen and consider" - I mean, just ignore it and keep on loving what you do. That is what is most amusing about the Scorsese thing - he is just giving his opinion about some movies, and MCU fans are up in arms. Like, everyone has their own definition of what cinema is, so deal with it?

Edit to add: Just a reminder, there is a huge difference between saying "I don't like Movie X" and "I don't think Person Y should talk about Movie X if they don't like it" - yes, they are both superficially opinions about Movie X, but one is focused on the movie itself to the exclusion of other things, and one is actively encouraging dissent to be quashed to prevent hurt feelings.

[Skitch]

- I mean, just ignore it and keep on loving what you do.

EXACTLY. I ain't afraid of no remakes!

[transmogrifier]

EXACTLY. I ain't afraid of no remakes!

History is littered with remakes. They are a neutral phenomenon. Especially since I don't have to watch them.

[Skitch]

History is littered with remakes. They are a neutral phenomenon. Especially since I don't have to watch them.

I check em out. And when they blow, I just watch the original and absolutely nothing has changed in my world.

[baby doll]

Does there need to be one?When you said, "We must stand up for ourselves," I just assumed that standing up for yourself meant explaining why you like the things that you like.

[Dukefrukem]

Then let's just drop it, shall we? You love the MCU, I do not. I find them all samey and superficial (still have not had the desire to rewatch a single one), you do not. You think Scorsese films are all the same because of GoodFellas and Casino. About cover it? Good. Let's move on.

Not quite. Can you, just for once, explain to me, objectively, how the two movies i mentioned are the same?

[Skitch]

When you said, "We must stand up for ourselves," I just assumed that standing up for yourself meant explaining why you like the things that you like.

Well sure one can if they want. Doesnt mean anyone has to listen to it.

I more meant to stand up for ourselves when someone blasts critics.

[baby doll]

Well sure one can if they want. Doesnt mean anyone has to listen to it.

I more meant to stand up for ourselves when someone blasts critics.I wasn't aware that Scorsese said anything negative about critics.

[PURPLE]

Um, he's saying all Scorsese films are the same. Unless Scorsese has made just two films, I don't know what you're getting at.*by quoting Zoolander
I think you should be able to love anything you want in any way you want - as long as you are able to handle criticism from some people who don't like it. And by "handle" I don't even mean "listen and consider" - I mean, just ignore it and keep on loving what you do. That is what is most amusing about the Scorsese thing - he is just giving his opinion about some movies, and MCU fans are up in arms. Like, everyone has their own definition of what cinema is, so deal with it?

Edit to add: Just a reminder, there is a huge difference between saying "I don't like Movie X" and "I don't think Person Y should talk about Movie X if they don't like it" - yes, they are both superficially opinions about Movie X, but one is focused on the movie itself to the exclusion of other things, and one is actively encouraging dissent to be quashed to prevent hurt feelings.I don't even like MCU films in general, I just think Scorsese's statement is stupid. And I used Zoolander to make a frivolous statement about it - because his silly statement doesn't deserve serious consideration. You don't have to be up in arms to find the statement absolutely silly.

[MadMan]

History is littered with remakes. They are a neutral phenomenon. Especially since I don't have to watch them.

That means you don't care to watch John Carpenter's The Thing, for example? Ok then.

[transmogrifier]

That means you don't care to watch John Carpenter's The Thing, for example? Ok then.

"I don't have to watch them" =/= "I don't watch any of them"

[MadMan]

"I don't have to watch them" =/= "I don't watch any of them"

Yeah, sure, ok, whatever. Unlike most of the people on this site I find arguing semantics to be really dull and a waste of time. Especially on a mostly dead site.

[transmogrifier]

Yeah, sure, ok, whatever. Unlike most of the people on this site I find arguing semantics to be really dull and a waste of time. Especially on a mostly dead site.

I'm not arguing semantics. I'm arguing what I actually said. Because you misrepresented my opinion.

[Skitch]

I wasn't aware that Scorsese said anything negative about critics.

I didnt say he did. Its possible to discuss multiple angles of a topic at the same time.

[Grouchy]

I think this Matchcut chapter is better left behind.

[Skitch]

It really is going nowhere.

[MadMan]

I'm not arguing semantics. I'm arguing what I actually said. Because you misrepresented my opinion.

Your post was cut and dry. Ok, Jane.

[MadMan]

It really is going nowhere.

Oh it's very Match-cut. 100%.

[Dukefrukem]

Your post was cut and dry. Ok, Jane.

But it was cut and dry and you still completely interpreted it wrong. I'm on Trans's side on this one.

[megladon8]

I think you should be able to love anything you want in any way you want - as long as you are able to handle criticism from some people who don't like it. And by "handle" I don't even mean "listen and consider" - I mean, just ignore it and keep on loving what you do. That is what is most amusing about the Scorsese thing - he is just giving his opinion about some movies, and MCU fans are up in arms. Like, everyone has their own definition of what cinema is, so deal with it?

Edit to add: Just a reminder, there is a huge difference between saying "I don't like Movie X" and "I don't think Person Y should talk about Movie X if they don't like it" - yes, they are both superficially opinions about Movie X, but one is focused on the movie itself to the exclusion of other things, and one is actively encouraging dissent to be quashed to prevent hurt feelings.


This is exactly what I mean when I say “fandom” (and why I hate it).

It’s toxic.

[baby doll]

This is exactly what I mean when I say “fandom” (and why I hate it).

It’s toxic.Last month at TIFF, I saw a grown man in the rush line waiting to see Joker in full costume and makeup, and it occurred to me that this guy had clearly already made up his mind that he was going to like the film even before he saw it--which I think is indicative how people in this century construct their identities around acts of consumption. (Similarly, I often see people on the subway carrying New Yorker tote bags as a way of signalling to strangers that they're people who read.) So when someone criticizes the things fragile young white men consume (in this case, comic book movies, but also video games, Rick and Morty, and Joe Rogan), the fans interpret it as an affront to their identity. This is why I'm curious about what the pro-MCU argument would be, because it sometimes seems to me that people are consuming the films as a lifestyle choice more than enjoying them as movies: i.e., it's less about the aesthetic experience of watching any one movie than it is about mastering the Marvel Cinematic Universe as a body of knowledge, hence the increasing tendency of franchise films to spread themselves across multiple sequels and prequels and across different media, so that a fan's apprenticeship in the series can continue indefinitely.

[transmogrifier]

Your post was cut and dry. Ok, Jane.

Look, it's simple. You misrepresented my post in order to take a jab at me for some reason, and then get haughty and offended when I try to clarify what I said and why you were wrong to interpret that way. In this day and age where the internet is full of people making shit up about an outgroup and using that to attack them, I'm not going to let someone invent an opinion for me that I don't hold. If you are too sensitive to accept that, bad luck for you. But I'm sick of people setting up a false argument and then acting all pissy when called on it.

[MadMan]

Not offended, just amused that you are clearly upset that someone pointed out a good remake after you bashed remakes. I was also being sarcastic. If anything you are the one being pissy and sensitive.

[transmogrifier]

Not offended, just amused that you are clearly upset that someone pointed out a good remake after you bashed remakes.


History is littered with remakes. They are a neutral phenomenon. Especially since I don't have to watch them.

Here we see Stages 2, 3 and 4 in the Insincere Internet Arguments for Dummies handbook:

Stage 2: Double down and misrepresent the opposing position even harder.
Stage 3: It was a joke, calm down.
Stage 4: Ha, defending yourself against blatant false accusations, such a snowflake, amirite?

This is quite impressive in its economy, I will give you that. It will save a lot of time getting to the endgame, you storming off blaming me for victimizing you, which would be Stage 5.

[MadMan]

The "Yeah, ok, whatever" was a joking reference to an X-Files episode. Also if you don't like me asking you questions, then um ok. I noticed you ignored Duke which surprised me. Also how does one storm off a message board? I mean you can skip away perhaps, or slowly walk away I guess. Plus the personal attacks earlier were unnecessary, but I choose to shrug them off. I thought you were not so thin skinned, and I advise you to not post on Twitter any time soon. Have a nice day, and if you have any other complaints I can refer you to a manager or our store director.

[Dukefrukem]

This is why I'm curious about what the pro-MCU argument would be, because it sometimes seems to me that people are consuming the films as a lifestyle choice more than enjoying them as movies: i.e., it's less about the aesthetic experience of watching any one movie than it is about mastering the Marvel Cinematic Universe as a body of knowledge, hence the increasing tendency of franchise films to spread themselves across multiple sequels and prequels and across different media, so that a fan's apprenticeship in the series can continue indefinitely.

Personally, it's both. It is an event that I invite my entire family to. I buy five to six tickets (depending on whether my sister has a boyfriend at the time) three months before the movie opens, and we go out to dinner, then see an MCU movie on a Thurs night. It's fun for me on two levels. One) The characters I grew up on I am finally seeing in major motion picture instead of inked on a page. I think the entire MCU has been cast perfectly for the characters. and 2) I get to spend time with my family on a random Thurs night.

So yes, I am consuming them as a lifestyle. But I also own each one, rewatch them several times a year and thoroughly enjoy the majority of them. They are fun. Entertainment is fun. And there's nothing toxic about that.

[Grouchy]

Personally, it's both. It is an event that I invite my entire family to. I buy five to six tickets (depending on whether my sister has a boyfriend at the time) three months before the movie opens, and we go out to dinner, then see an MCU movie on a Thurs night. It's fun for me on two levels. One) The characters I grew up on I am finally seeing in major motion picture instead of inked on a page. I think the entire MCU has been cast perfectly for the characters. and 2) I get to spend time with my family on a random Thurs night.
Hahah I like you, Duke.

[Dukefrukem]

Hahah I like you, Duke.

Who knows... could have been the final family outing (https://www.instagram.com/p/BxLxvS4l5wr/) for a long time.

[Irish]

Q: I’m not really an Old Movie Guy, and you chose to focus only on movies from the '80s---and really the '90---on. Are you like me in that you don't see a ton of appeal in movies older than that?

A: I'm with you on that. I watch old movies and I'm like, "No, thanks." They're not fun. It's clear they were still trying to figure out how to do things. Some of them, of course, were undeniable, like a Jaws or Star Wars or Indiana Jones. You watch those and you go, "Oh, I see in this the bones of what eventually became whatever action franchise." Or Alien. [But mostly], they're just not that fun to watch.

When I was working on the "Heist" chapter, I was reading best lists of heist movies. One that kept appearing on the list was this movie called Rififi. It's in black and white. Everybody talks about how great it was. They do this really cool trick in there where there's a long stretch of just straight-up silence while they try to break into wherever. I get it. That part was cool, and I imagine, at the time, it was really fun. But you watch it today, and it's just not that great.

God, this dude really bums me the fuck out (https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a29353613/shea-serrano-movies-and-other-things-interview/)

[Grouchy]

Who the fuck is that idiot?

[Yxklyx]

God, this dude really bums me the fuck out (https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a29353613/shea-serrano-movies-and-other-things-interview/)

A lot of the appeal to me of older movies is to travel back in time and try to empathize with older cultures, psyches, and values. I'm interested in understanding how we got to where we are today - like Archaeology. That reviewer believes that only the present matters.

[MadMan]

I became a diehard fan of the MCU after Winter Soldier. I liked the other films before it, however it was that one that really got me hooked.

[Dukefrukem]

God, this dude really bums me the fuck out (https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a29353613/shea-serrano-movies-and-other-things-interview/)

Yeh this guy is a tool. Is he 14 years old?

Oh man I've been addicted to older 50s and 60s movies lately. Just went through all of the Universal Mummy movies.

I want to go back and do the same for all Universal classic horror movies.

Jaws and Alien aren't that old dude.

[Skitch]

I admit, I'm not the biggest fan of classic cinema. Then I stumbled across Seven Samurai at 2 am one sleepless night, and assumed it would put me right to sleep. I watched the whole damn thing, gripping my coffee table. I still am not the biggest fan of classic cinema, but I have found more than enough over the years that I would never shit on any decade. Theres good in every one of them, some just may be tougher to find.

[Grouchy]

I think the stupidest concept he puts forth is the idea that there's a learning curve in filmmaking that somehow reached a peak (I guess in the '80s according to the movies he mentions?) and then it stays the same until our days.

[megladon8]

What the hell is going on with RT’s box office top 10 list?

https://i.postimg.cc/JhZ6pNmv/841-E0001-F8-B1-47-FC-B68-F-462-D92-F51-E03.jpg

[baby doll]

I haven't seen Gregory's Girl yet but I've been hearing good things about it (and Bill Forsyth's work generally) for over a decade now.

[MadMan]

The House of the Devil is a near great flick, though. I hope I like The Lighthouse more than I did The Witch.

[megladon8]

Kinda missing the point, I think.

Why are they listing a decade old indie horror and a 30 year old comedy in the top box office list for the week?

[MadMan]

Kinda missing the point, I think.

Why are they listing a decade old indie horror and a 30 year old comedy in the top box office list for the week?

No I got it, I just wanted to note how good House of the Devil is. I never saw the other one. Maybe someone in RT is playing a fun joke.

[Peng]

How does Major League (1989) rank among baseball films? I'm looking through films that expire on Thai Netflix at the end of the month and this is one of them, so wonder if it's worth watching.

[Dukefrukem]

How does Major League (1989) rank among baseball films? I'm looking through films that expire on Thai Netflix at the end of the month and this is one of them, so wonder if it's worth watching.

I enjoy it. What's super hilarous... is pay close attention to Wesley Snipes. Apparently, he was one of the least athletic actors in the movie and all of the athletic scenes were shot trying to avoid that quality.

[Skitch]

How does Major League (1989) rank among baseball films? I'm looking through films that expire on Thai Netflix at the end of the month and this is one of them, so wonder if it's worth watching.

As a Cleveland sports fan, I adore that movie. "Fuck you JoBu! I do it myself!"

[Ezee E]

It still works today. For a comedy, that's pretty tough to do.

Remember loving Willie Mayes Hayes, so they must've shot around that pretty well.

[MadMan]

Major League is good, but not as good as Bull Durham. Still it's worth a viewing for the awesome cast and the fun one liners.

[megladon8]

BASEketball is where it’s at for sports movies.

[Dukefrukem]

I love that movie too

[Skitch]

Yep! I havent seen that in years.

[Dukefrukem]

Ummm what the fuck? https://www.boxofficemojo.com/

Genre, actor, inflation...... gone with most of the useful stuff hidden by a paywall.

[Skitch]

Fuck me. I already hate how it looks. At least the daily numbers and theaters are still there.

[Ezee E]

Ummm what the fuck? https://www.boxofficemojo.com/

Genre, actor, inflation...... gone with most of the useful stuff hidden by a paywall.

At least the fantasy league won't be impacted.

Didn't they try a paywall a few years ago and it failed completely?

[Dukefrukem]

At least the fantasy league won't be impacted.

Didn't they try a paywall a few years ago and it failed completely?

I dunno, but even the paywall stuff has completely removed some of the features that made boxofficemojo fun. The earnings per actor, genre and sub genre appear to all be gone.

[Irish]

Update on Disney, Fox, and rep houses:

https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/disney-is-quietly-placing-classic-fox-movies-into-its-vault.html

Looks like the worst has happened. Disney isn't allowing Fox movies to be shown at "for profit theaters." This includes back catalog stuff like "Alien," "Fight Club," "The Fly," and "The Princess Bride."

They just disappeared all that shit into their vaults.

[transmogrifier]

All hail our Disney overlords.

[MadMan]

BASEketball is where it’s at for sports movies.

That movie is hilarious.

[MadMan]

Update on Disney, Fox, and rep houses:

https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/disney-is-quietly-placing-classic-fox-movies-into-its-vault.html

Looks like the worst has happened. Disney isn't allowing Fox movies to be shown at "for profit theaters." This includes back catalog stuff like "Alien," "Fight Club," "The Fly," and "The Princess Bride."

They just disappeared all that shit into their vaults.I've seen all of those movies but viewing them on the big screen would have been nice. FUCK. Plus hurting independent theaters is a dick move.

[StanleyK]

Tim Burton:

Vincent - 5.5
Frankenweenie - 5.5
Pee-wee's Big Adventure - 8.5
Beetlejuice - 7
Batman - 5.5
Edward Scissorhands - 8.5
Batman Returns - 4
Ed Wood - 8.5
Mars Attacks! - 5.5
Sleepy Hollow - 5.5
Planet of the Apes - 4
Big Fish - 5.5
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory - 4
Corpse Bride - 7
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 5.5
Alice in Wonderland - 1
Dark Shadows - 5.5
Frankenweenie - 2.5
Big Eyes - 5.5
Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children - 2.5
Dumbo - Not watching it 'cause fuck that shit.



So does this guy win the 'biggest disparity between potential at the start of career and actual career' award or is he just a top contender?

[TGM]

Update on Disney, Fox, and rep houses:

https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/disney-is-quietly-placing-classic-fox-movies-into-its-vault.html

Looks like the worst has happened. Disney isn't allowing Fox movies to be shown at "for profit theaters." This includes back catalog stuff like "Alien," "Fight Club," "The Fly," and "The Princess Bride."

They just disappeared all that shit into their vaults.

But hey, at least the X-Men can be in the MCU though, right? :rolleyes:

[Dukefrukem]

But hey, at least the X-Men can be in the MCU though, right? :rolleyes:

That's a trade I'm fine with. How many of you actually went to re-watch these in theaters? Be honest. I think I saw Alien and Terminator 2 back in college.. back before it wasn't available in 37 other places.

If you haven't seen them, then this is complete faux outrage. Conglomerate or not.

[Lazlo]

That's a trade I'm fine with. How many of you actually went to re-watch these in theaters? Be honest. I think I saw Alien and Terminator 2 back in college.. back before it wasn't available in 37 other places.

If you haven't seen them, then this is complete faux outrage. Conglomerate or not.

Yeah, but whether people can see Alien in a theater or not is a lesser concern of the issue. The bigger deal is that there are enough people who do want to see these movies in a theater that it's a significant contribution to the bottom line of these independent theaters and small chains. If you take that away, it just makes it that much harder for them to compete against Regal and AMC, which are not paragons of quality or variety. That's the crux of the story, not the actual availability of the movies. I for one am not cool with anything that makes the business harder for people who actually give a shit about the movie on the screen and the experience of the audience member after they've paid for their ticket.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeah, but whether people can see Alien in a theater or not is a lesser concern of the issue. The bigger deal is that there are enough people who do want to see these movies in a theater that it's a significant contribution to the bottom line of these independent theaters and small chains. If you take that away, it just makes it that much harder for them to compete against Regal and AMC, which are not paragons of quality or variety. That's the crux of the story, not the actual availability of the movies. I for one am not cool with anything that makes the business harder for people who actually give a shit about the movie on the screen and the experience of the audience member after they've paid for their ticket.

Fair point. Totally whiffed on that aspect.

Counterpoint. It's the Walmart conundrum all over again. They are shutting down small business, but creating thousands of jobs in the process.

[transmogrifier]

That's a trade I'm fine with. How many of you actually went to re-watch these in theaters? Be honest. I think I saw Alien and Terminator 2 back in college.. back before it wasn't available in 37 other places.

If you haven't seen them, then this is complete faux outrage. Conglomerate or not.

How is this even an argument? I've never had an abortion, but I'm going to complain if my country ever outlaws it.

[Dukefrukem]

How is this even an argument? I've never had an abortion, but I'm going to complain if my country ever outlaws it.

You missed my last post maybe? I could post it again or you can read better.

[transmogrifier]

You missed my last post maybe? I could post it again or you can read better.

Please explain to me how what I quoted is an argument first, and we'll go from there.

[Dukefrukem]

Please explain to me how what I quoted is an argument first, and we'll go from there.

Well if I was ONLY thinking about availability of a film, and not taking into account the other things wrong with this Disney move, then maybe, just maybe, my post wouldn't be so myopic. Just maybe.

[transmogrifier]

Well if I was ONLY thinking about availability of a film, and not taking into account the other things wrong with this Disney move, then maybe, just maybe, my post wouldn't be so myopic. Just maybe.

Okay, but I don't understand the general concept of you thinking that if we don't personally watch the films ourselves, we can't complain about them being taken away from others, that's all. Seems like an odd way of looking at things (if it doesn't personally affect you, then it is "faux outrage" and thus... not genuine? Dismissable? I don't know. That's what I wanted to clarify.). Anyway.....

[Lazlo]

Fair point. Totally whiffed on that aspect.

Counterpoint. It's the Walmart conundrum all over again. They are shutting down small business, but creating thousands of jobs in the process.

It's Walmart but I don't see any upside. Harms small businesses and harms Disney competitors. There's a bit in the article about Disney would rather have one more screen of Frozen II whether anyone actually buys a ticket or not just because it keeps Sony or Paramount from having a screen for their movie. I don't see job creation at the big chains as a result of this either.

[Dukefrukem]

Okay, but I don't understand the general concept of you thinking that if we don't personally watch the films ourselves, we can't complain about them being taken away from others, that's all. Seems like an odd way of looking at things (if it doesn't personally affect you, then it is "faux outrage" and thus... not genuine? Dismissable? I don't know. That's what I wanted to clarify.). Anyway.....

Because I thought those others were just upset at not being able to see it in theaters, rather than *checks Just Watch* Amazon, google, Apple, Youtube, Fandango Now, Playstation, VuDU, Microsoft, Redbox and whatever fuboTV is.

And here we are, on the internet, upset that this poor cinephiles, can't watch it on the big screen. (if that was the only reason). If that WAS the only reason, doesn't that feel a bit sad?
There's a lot of millennial complaints I dismiss that doesn't impact me personally. We are supposed to fight for everything everywhere all the time? Apparently, millennials don't like cereal because they have to clean up after they are done eating. We should campaign on the streets for a cereal box that throws itself away when you are done eating it.

[Irish]

Because I thought those others were just upset at not being able to see it in theaters, rather than *checks Just Watch* Amazon, google, Apple, Youtube, Fandango Now, Playstation, VuDU, Microsoft, Redbox and whatever fuboTV is.

And do you really think those all those films will still be available once Disney+ goes live? Or will Disney let their contracts expire and keep everything exclusive to their service?

What if they did the same with DVDs and Blus? What if they introduced an artificial scarcity into Disney+ and only allowed access to certain films during narrow windows, a few times a year?

Would you be so blase then?

Vendor lock-in and platform exclusives are bad for everybody.

But you already know this, just like you're aware that seeing a movie projected, with an audience, is often a different experience than watching it a home, and a lot of folks place a high value on one experience over the other.

[Dukefrukem]

And do you really think those all those films will still be available once Disney+ goes live? Or will Disney let their contracts expire and keep everything exclusive to their service?

What if they did the same with DVDs and Blus? What if they introduced an artificial scarcity into Disney+ and only allowed access to certain films during narrow windows, a few times a year?

Would you be so blase then?

Vendor lock-in and platform exclusives are bad for everybody.

But you already know this, just like you're aware that seeing a movie projected, with an audience, is often a different experience than watching it a home, and a lot of folks place a high value on one experience over the other.

If they do move to Disney+ just add it to the list. No different paying $3.99 on Amazon than paying $3.99 for Disney. And none of those other things have happened and I try not to live in a world of hypotheticals.

And yeh, seeing a movie projected with an audience sucks these days.

[Irish]

If they do move to Disney+ just add it to the list. No different paying $3.99 on Amazon than paying $3.99 for Disney. And none of those other things have happened and I try not to live in a world of hypotheticals.

Disney has done, at one time or another, everything I described with their own original properties. Why wouldn't they do the same with Fox?

You're assuming that something like "Alien" will be available to rent (and at the same price). But why would it be? Subscriptions are a lot more lucrative than one-off rentals.

Most of this stuff is now in a "Roma" sort of category --- you can't see the movie projected on screen and it's also locked to a single vendor's platform, which also means you can't rent or own a copy, either.

Saying you don't deal in hypotheticals is a weak defense here, dude. I mean, c'mon. Half this website is people talking about hypotheticals.


And yeh, seeing a movie projected with an audience sucks these days.

At chain theaters, yeah. But at rep houses, not in my experience.

[Dukefrukem]

Saying you don't deal in hypotheticals is a weak defense here, dude. I mean, c'mon. Half this website is people talking about hypotheticals.


I just mean these things you listed haven't happened yet and I'm not going to get all bent out of shape for something that hasn't and maybe won't happen.

And no, I dont think they will do this with the FOX properties. They lock stuff behind their Disney brand vault for a reason but it doesn't make any sense to do this to the FOX stuff.

I can still buy/rent/stream Avengers movies on Amazon and that has been owned by Disney since day 1. Shouldn't they be pulling these things off the shelves?

https://www.amazon.com/Marvel-Studios-Avengers-Robert-Downey/dp/B07QYQR614/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=avengers&qid=1572027464&sr=8-4

same with Pixar

https://www.amazon.com/Toy-Story-Tim-Allen/dp/B0094KTAEY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Toy+Story&qid=1572027577&sr=8-1

same with Walt Disney Pictures

https://www.amazon.com/Moana-Theatrical-Version-Aulii-Cravalho/dp/B01MSPICKN/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Moana&qid=1572027598&sr=8-1

[Irish]

IThey lock stuff behind their Disney brand vault for a reason but it doesn't make any sense to do this to the FOX stuff.

Yeah. Unfortunately, marketers don't think that way. If something worked for them before, they'll likely try it again.


I can still buy/rent/stream Avengers movies on Amazon and that has been owned by Disney since day 1. Shouldn't they be pulling these things off the shelves?

They weren't competing directly with Amazon before. Now they are.

Exclusives are the only value these platforms have. Maintaining Disney properties on Amazon would undermine Disney+ and Hulu. Why would they do that?

ETA: And they're about to pull their shit off Netflix, whose licensing deal with Disney expires at the end of this year. So all those Pixar and LucasFilm movies will be gone by mid-2020 at the latest.

[megladon8]

Duke aren’t you the same age as me?

[Dukefrukem]

ETA: And they're about to pull their shit off Netflix, whose licensing deal with Disney expires at the end of this year. So all those Pixar and LucasFilm movies will be gone by mid-2020 at the latest.

Everything but the Netflix shows.


Duke aren’t you the same age as me?

I dunno are we the same age? You have me blocked on Facebook.

[Irish]

Everything but the Netflix shows.

aka "everything we've been talking about"

Not sure I understand your point?

There's a reason why Netflix shitcanned their Marvel shows in the same year ...

Man, this whole conversation is bumming me out now

[Dukefrukem]

I was agreeing with you. More like continuing your ETA statement.

[megladon8]

Everything but the Netflix shows.



I dunno are we the same age? You have me blocked on Facebook.

No I don’t. I don’t have Facebook. I sent you a message on messenger months back and you never replied.

I was born in 87.

[Dukefrukem]

No I don’t. I don’t have Facebook. I sent you a message on messenger months back and you never replied.

I was born in 87.

84 Here. And I just went in and looked- apparently there are two headers on top of the messages place on FB. One that says "recent" and one that says "message requests". I had 37 message requests that I never knew existed, from people I had no idea were trying to contact me. Facebook is weird man.

[TGM]

84 Here. And I just went in and looked- apparently there are two headers on top of the messages place on FB. One that says "recent" and one that says "message requests". I had 37 message requests that I never knew existed, from people I had no idea were trying to contact me. Facebook is weird man.

Yeah, I hate that about fb. I've seriously gone years before realizing people were trying to contact me, and they probably thought I had just blown them off. You'd think they'd notify you of that. I mean hell, they notify you about every single damn thing else you couldn't give a crap less about. >.>

[Ezee E]

We'll just have to settle for

https://www.n3rdabl3.com/wp-content/images/uploads/2016/09/xmen-aliens.jpg

[megladon8]

84 Here. And I just went in and looked- apparently there are two headers on top of the messages place on FB. One that says "recent" and one that says "message requests". I had 37 message requests that I never knew existed, from people I had no idea were trying to contact me. Facebook is weird man.

Ah, well my point was just that you are a millennial :p

[Dukefrukem]

Ah, well my point was just that you are a millennial :p

I denounce millennial and classify myself as generation x.

[transmogrifier]

Because I thought those others were just upset at not being able to see it in theaters, rather than *checks Just Watch* Amazon, google, Apple, Youtube, Fandango Now, Playstation, VuDU, Microsoft, Redbox and whatever fuboTV is.

And here we are, on the internet, upset that this poor cinephiles, can't watch it on the big screen. (if that was the only reason). If that WAS the only reason, doesn't that feel a bit sad?
There's a lot of millennial complaints I dismiss that doesn't impact me personally. We are supposed to fight for everything everywhere all the time? Apparently, millennials don't like cereal because they have to clean up after they are done eating. We should campaign on the streets for a cereal box that throws itself away when you are done eating it.

Yeah, as I thought, it wasn't an argument that made any sense. Moving on....

[Skitch]

I denounce millennial and classify myself as generation x.

I'm gonna need a birth year before I allow you in my club.

[Ezee E]

I'm gonna need a birth year before I allow you in my club.

Think he said '84. Not even on the cusp.

[Skitch]

Think he said '84. Not even on the cusp.

If so, DENIED.

[megladon8]

I denounce millennial and classify myself as generation x.

How millennial of you.

[MadMan]

Big monopolies are not a good thing. Ever.

[Dukefrukem]

Think he said '84. Not even on the cusp.

Definition of Gen X is early 80s. I qualify,

Plus they never would have made those pepsi generation x commercials advertising directly to me in the 90s.

[Skitch]

1965-1980.

[Ezee E]

Definition of Gen X is early 80s. I qualify,

Plus they never would have made those pepsi generation x commercials advertising directly to me in the 90s.

You and I are 83-84. We can accept Xenniels or even Oregon Trail Generation... but not in the same club as those damn slackers.

[Irish]

Duke was like 10 when Cobain died, lol

:D

[Dukefrukem]

1965-1980.

"early 80s"


You and I are 83-84. We can accept Xenniels or even Oregon Trail Generation... but not in the same club as those damn slackers.

That we can agree.

[Dukefrukem]

Duke was like 10 when Cobain died, lol

:D

I remember it. I also remember Bradley Nowells death, Tpacs, Princess Diana, Biggie, Phil Hartman, Chris Farley and Reggie Lewis.

[Irish]

I remember it. I also remember Bradley Nowells death, Tpacs, Princess Diana, Biggie, Phil Hartman, Chris Farley and Reggie Lewis.

Yeah ... uh ... those events all made national news?

I mean, I like John Wayne, "A Hard Day's Night," Lester Bangs, and Joan Didion ... but that doesn't make me a boomer.

What's wrong with being a millennial?

[Skitch]

What's wrong with being a millennial?

Nothing. I'll take millennials over boomers all fucking day. I consider early 80s to 90s what they used to call Gen Y. For some reason that label went away and got lumped in with millennials. Ya'll deserve more cred because you at least remember pre-internet. Us Gen X-ers though, we remember when there was only 3 channels and audio cassettes cost $10-$20, VHS tapes were $20-$70, and laserdiscs could be up to $100. When I started smoking, a pack cost 75 cents to a buck.

[baby doll]

The fact that we can't even agree where millennials start and stop just goes to show how completely arbitrary and meaningless these generational distinctions are. Millennial is just a media term hacks use to conjure up a stereotyped image of broke young people taking selfies of themselves eating avocados. It's not surprising Duke would want to reject that stereotype but I'm not sure piggybacking an older bullshit media cliché is the best way to go about it.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/290d6d67948341ee1d912a2aafd610 0b/tumblr_pceahhzj311uzae1ko1_400 .gifv

[Irish]

We mostly agree outside of Duke and Duke is wrong, because the boundaries of Generation X don't extend to the mid-1980s.

Anyway, the distinctions are mostly meaningless but I'm not sure they're arbitrary. They're merely labels meant to provide context.

Curious that you made a similar argument around "best films of the year" or whatever awhile back.

[Irish]

OTOH I've spent the morning listening to Nirvana bootlegs on YouTube and that's all down to Duke so .... :thumbsup:

[Skitch]

The first Nirvana album (cassette) I bought (and still tied for best album they made) was Bleach.

No wait...first one I bought was In Utero. Second was Bleach. But those are the best.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeah ... uh ... those events all made national news?

I mean, I like John Wayne, "A Hard Day's Night," Lester Bangs, and Joan Didion ... but that doesn't make me a boomer.

What's wrong with being a millennial?

I guess my point was I was between 9-13 when most of these events happened. Do a lot of 9 year olds pay attention to famous deaths?


Whats wrong with being a millennial??

[Irish]

The first Nirvana album (cassette) I bought (and still tied for best album they made) was Bleach.

No wait...first one I bought was In Utero. Second was Bleach. But those are the best.

Give this a listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTXepeaGlT0&list=OLAK5uy_lT4oJ3dFTyOKpVSPu sUV4IlXKg9tMgOnM

Good mix

[megladon8]

I don’t think there’s anything more millennial than saying “I don’t identify as a millennial”.

[Ezee E]

I came across Oregon Trail Generation, and that's my favorite. Sticking to that.

Millennials end at 9/11 right? What the heck happened in 1980 to distinguish that transition? Reagan? Pac-Man? Richard Pryor on fire?

John Lennon being assassinated could be it.

[baby doll]

Curious that you made a similar argument around "best films of the year" or whatever awhile back.Did I? I don't remember that.

[Dukefrukem]

I don’t think there’s anything more millennial than saying “I don’t identify as a millennial”.

I'm pretty sure demanding student loan forgiveness, marching on occupy wall-street and being an overall entitled douche is more millennial than not wanting to be a millennial.

[megladon8]

Lmao.

Jesus Duke.

[baby doll]

I'm pretty sure demanding student loan forgiveness, marching on occupy wall-street and being an overall entitled douche is more millennial than not wanting to be a millennial.On the student loan thing, I think that's largely an American phenomenon as university tuition there has skyrocketed over the last thirty years or so, and the reason for that is because the number of administrators has increased exponentially during the same period. In other words, kids are paying more for a crappier education and there are few jobs for them when they get out. I don't know if debt forgiveness is the solution since it doesn't address underlying economic conditions, but the idea that young people are entitled is a lazy Republican talking point deflecting attention from the neoliberal economic policies that created this situation.

[Dukefrukem]

On the student loan thing, I think that's largely an American phenomenon as university tuition there has skyrocketed over the last thirty years or so, and the reason for that is because the number of administrators has increased exponentially during the same period. In other words, kids are paying more for a crappier education and there are few jobs for them when they get out. I don't know if debt forgiveness is the solution since it doesn't address underlying economic conditions, but the idea that young people are entitled is a lazy Republican talking point deflecting attention from the neoliberal economic policies that created this situation.

Not too sure about that. I know people who have well over $150k in student loan debt. And instead of at least attempting to pay it off, they would rather travel the world, make lavish purchases and make minimum payments while the interest continues to build, and then take a job that allows it to get washed away by the taxpayers. It's not surprising I feel this way. I had a ton of debt, and paid it off over a 10 year period. Why should I have to pay for other people's terrible decision making? Take responsibly. Stop being a non-contributing zero and do something positive for society.

I dont disagree that the education cost is a real problem; but these people are co-signing these loans and not putting an ounce of thought of what they are getting into. Then they go four years to a private institution, major in literature or political science, and wonder why there aren't $100k/year jobs lying around for them.

[Irish]

Why should I have to pay for


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhe3RlzgTiQ

[megladon8]

Yes, it’s the people with debt who are robbing you.

Not the corporations worth billion/trillions who fight tooth and nail to keep every nickel and dime from going back to the people or the country, while also treating their own employees like garbage and changing laws so they can do whatever they want under the protection of Uncle Sam.

[baby doll]

Not too sure about that. I know people who have well over $150k in student loan debt. And instead of at least attempting to pay it off, they would rather travel the world, make lavish purchases and make minimum payments while the interest continues to build, and then take a job that allows it to get washed away by the taxpayers. It's not surprising I feel this way. I had a ton of debt, and paid it off over a 10 year period. Why should I have to pay for other people's terrible decision making? Take responsibly. Stop being a non-contributing zero and do something positive for society.

I dont disagree that the education cost is a real problem; but these people are co-signing these loans and not putting an ounce of thought of what they are getting into. Then they go four years to a private institution, major in literature or political science, and wonder why there aren't $100k/year jobs lying around for them.I'm not sure how student loans work in the United States, but assuming those loans come from the government, technically you wouldn't pay anything if debt forgiveness were to become a thing. Not to get into a whole thing about MMT (Modern Monetary Theory), but when the government spends money (in this case, by issuing loans), it's producing money out of thin air, increasing the total amount of money in the economy; when it takes in money (as when people pay their loans off), that money disappears from the economy. In a country that prints its own currency like the US, money is an infinite resource, and since inflation is low at the moment, this is the time when governments should be making it rain like a second-tier rapper in an Atlanta strip club.

[Dukefrukem]

Yes, it’s the people with debt who are robbing you.

Not the corporations worth billion/trillions who fight tooth and nail to keep every nickel and dime from going back to the people or the country, while also treating their own employees like garbage and changing laws so they can do whatever they want under the protection of Uncle Sam.

The United States doesn't raise taxes because Amazon hides its revenue overseas. They raise taxes to pay for bottom feeders and military budgets.

[megladon8]

Bottom feeders?

Jesus, man.

[baby doll]

The United States doesn't raise taxes because Amazon hides its revenue overseas. They raise taxes to pay for bottom feeders and military budgets.When was the last time the US raised federal taxes, during the first Bush administration? Incidentally, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now if a government-funded research team hadn't invented the internet.

[megladon8]

Duke should move to India where there’s still a caste system.

He’d love it. It’s exactly what he wants.

[Dukefrukem]

When was the last time the US raised federal taxes, during the first Bush administration? Incidentally, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now if a government-funded research team hadn't invented the internet.

Well why does Meg keep bringing up corporations? For state taxes that Amazon actually ends up paying? No its the federal taxes that grab the Canada headlines.


Duke should move to India where there’s still a caste system.

He’d love it. It’s exactly what he wants.

Third world countries aren't exactly my thing. So no, I dont think I would.

[megladon8]

Why do you always bring up how you hate poor people so much, and think anyone who has nothing and wishes things were different is “entitled”?

To you, poor = lazy. And that’s such a horrific viewpoint I can’t even begin to sympathize with that kind of world view.

[Peng]

That the discussion includes some asides from We Love Amazon thread feels fitting somehow.

[Skitch]

So films, amirite?

[TGM]

So films, amirite?

Was just thinking this, lol. :p

[Dukefrukem]

Why do you always bring up how you hate poor people so much, and think anyone who has nothing and wishes things were different is “entitled”?

To you, poor = lazy. And that’s such a horrific viewpoint I can’t even begin to sympathize with that kind of world view.

Just curious, where in my posts do you get these profound statements. "hate poor people" / "anyone who has nothing is entitled" / "poor = lazy" / and just the statement "poor".

For all the "republican spin talk" on MC, this takes the cake when it comes to spinnnn. This is spin zone to the MAX.

[Irish]

So films, amirite?

Yeah, man. Movies. I dig em. How about you?

[MadMan]

Last I checked Duke is at least a moderate GOPer so no one should be surprised by any of his posts.

[MadMan]

Although hey plenty of liberals also hate poor people too...

Anyways cinema is good.

[Dukefrukem]

Last I checked Duke is at least a moderate GOPer so no one should be surprised by any of his posts.

Voted for Obama first term so nice try.

[Skitch]

Yeah, man. Movies. I dig em. How about you?

So good. *eats pie*

[TGM]

So good. *eats pie*

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/James-Franco-Wink-Gif-In-Spider-Man-3.gif

[MadMan]

Voted for Obama first term so nice try.So? The man was a moderate Republican pretending to be a Dem.

[Irish]

Does anyone (still) use Letterboxd?

Thinking of starting up my account again & I'm wondering how/ why people use it. Is there a trick to it being a doubleplusgood experience that I'm missing?

[transmogrifier]

Does anyone (still) use Letterboxd?

Thinking of starting up my account again & I'm wondering how/ why people use it. Is there a trick to it being a doubleplusgood experience that I'm missing?

I use it. It is excellent for keeping up to date with the general consensus for a film from people whose taste you trust. (Pick who you follow well.) Also a good way of keeping track of what you have seen, though I use an Excel sheet for that. Add people read what you write occasionally!

[Dukefrukem]

Does anyone (still) use Letterboxd?

Thinking of starting up my account again & I'm wondering how/ why people use it. Is there a trick to it being a doubleplusgood experience that I'm missing?

Daily, but you already knew that because I post my lists here all the time.

[Lazlo]

Yeah, probably my most visited website. I love how easy it makes it to keep track of what I'm watching. I use the average rating of movies to help guide what to watch next. Overall I find it a visually stimulating and easy-to-use representation of my movie watching life. Of all the websites that have been around that help you catalog and rank your movie-watching, it's far and away the best.

One (minor) downside that I can't figure how to shake (other than just to watch fewer movies and care less about them) is that I have this creeping sense of gamification in the way I think about watching movies that's directly tied to juicing my stats on Letterboxd. Not to compete with others, but to impress myself mostly. Nevertheless, it's a great site and I'd love to be able to follow you on it.

[MadMan]

Does anyone (still) use Letterboxd?

Thinking of starting up my account again & I'm wondering how/ why people use it. Is there a trick to it being a doubleplusgood experience that I'm missing?

I still do, but not as much as I should. It is great for list making.

[Skitch]

I visit it often, but I'm a year and a half behind on my movie log.

[Ezee E]

Use it for general logging and keeping track of what I watch. Good site.

[Irish]

When I was in England in early October, I gave an interview to Empire magazine. I was asked a question about Marvel movies. I answered it. I said that I’ve tried to watch a few of them and that they’re not for me, that they seem to me to be closer to theme parks than they are to movies as I’ve known and loved them throughout my life, and that in the end, I don’t think they’re cinema.

Some people seem to have seized on the last part of my answer as insulting, or as evidence of hatred for Marvel on my part. If anyone is intent on characterizing my words in that light, there’s nothing I can do to stand in the way.

Many franchise films are made by people of considerable talent and artistry. You can see it on the screen. The fact that the films themselves don’t interest me is a matter of personal taste and temperament. I know that if I were younger, if I’d come of age at a later time, I might have been excited by these pictures and maybe even wanted to make one myself. But I grew up when I did and I developed a sense of movies — of what they were and what they could be — that was as far from the Marvel universe as we on Earth are from Alpha Centauri.

continued: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-marvel.html

I had guessed that his response would come earlier, and initially wondered why he spoke out now, weeks after the initial story broke.

"The Irishman" is in limited run now and premieres on Netflix November 22.

[Ivan Drago]

I use Letterboxd as the hub for both the list of films I've seen for the first time every year and my year-end best list.

[Irish]

Oof -- I meant to follow up on the Letterboxd thing & thank everyone for their responses. You've sold me on it. I'll set up a new account soon.

[StuSmallz]

I love using Letterboxd too, follow me there if you feel like it, etc., etc.

[Dukefrukem]

Oof -- I meant to follow up on the Letterboxd thing & thank everyone for their responses. You've sold me on it. I'll set up a new account soon.

Thought you already had one?

https://letterboxd.com/brude/

[Dukefrukem]

So? The man was a moderate Republican pretending to be a Dem.

Forgot to LOL this post.

[MadMan]

Forgot to LOL this post.

You don't hang out with too many leftists, do you?

[Dukefrukem]

You don't hang out with too many leftists, do you?

And why would I? I don't hang out with the nut jobs either. But you're a fool to think Obama was by any stretch of the imagination republican.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/0b/26/a40b268057bc8b96d43f6b4dea6623 cf.png

[Grouchy]

I'm surprised none linked to this piece (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-marvel.html?fbclid=IwAR2LYboa5 vd1ng2KQFZOKHJukwnuror0yVVOTzY puQ8CLMhgM4axbHYGsEw#commentsC ontainer) by Scorsese expanding on his Marvel comments.

Whether you agree with him or not, it's such a privilege to have a guy like Marty alive and so outspoken about the way he views his favorite medium.

[Irish]

I'm surprised none linked to this piece (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-marvel.html?fbclid=IwAR2LYboa5 vd1ng2KQFZOKHJukwnuror0yVVOTzY puQ8CLMhgM4axbHYGsEw#commentsC ontainer) by Scorsese expanding on his Marvel comments.

I did, 2 days ago, but it got lost amidst the Letterboxd convo.

[MadMan]

And why would I? I don't hang out with the nut jobs either. But you're a fool to think Obama was by any stretch of the imagination republican.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/0b/26/a40b268057bc8b96d43f6b4dea6623 cf.png
Well honestly there is no left wing party in this country, first off. The GOP has gone far right wing and the Dems are center right. You do know the basis for the ACA came from Mitt Romney, and GOP think tanks, right? Also Obama's immigration and foreign policy was about as left wing as George W. Bush. It's funny to see Republicans attack him when he bailed out Wall Street with no strings attached.

[TGM]

http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?6670-The-Match-Cut-2017-Political-Thread-(or-The-Lord-of-the-Leaks-The-Trump-Towers)

[Dukefrukem]

The Best Films of 2019 (So Far)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/26/movies/best-films-of-2019.html?mc=contentTWdom&ad-keywords=auddevgate

[megladon8]

Well honestly there is no left wing party in this country, first off. The GOP has gone far right wing and the Dems are center right. You do know the basis for the ACA came from Mitt Romney, and GOP think tanks, right? Also Obama's immigration and foreign policy was about as left wing as George W. Bush. It's funny to see Republicans attack him when he bailed out Wall Street with no strings attached.

Because he’s black, that’s why.

[Grouchy]

Well honestly there is no left wing party in this country, first off. The GOP has gone far right wing and the Dems are center right. You do know the basis for the ACA came from Mitt Romney, and GOP think tanks, right? Also Obama's immigration and foreign policy was about as left wing as George W. Bush. It's funny to see Republicans attack him when he bailed out Wall Street with no strings attached.
From an outsider's perspective, Democrats and Republicans have always looked like two sides of the same coin, specially where foreign policies are concerned.

[Ivan Drago]

I've been scrolling through past posts here about Satantango because I'm curious about the consensus on it here, and the 4K restoration of it is coming to my arthouse theater next weekend, so I'm thinking about going. Bela Tarr's filmmaking style is something I've been interested in seeing for a while because slow, meditative films fascinate me as a filmmaker. The only things keeping me from committing otherwise are the daunting 7 1/2 hour run time, depressing story and philosophical ideas that I worry could go over my head. So I ask this of you, my fellow Match-Cutters: knowing my film tastes, would I be into Satantango?

Then again, I see clips like this and think "Holy shit, this looks like an incredible, immersive theatrical experience":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP03MOABUOY

[baby doll]

It's pretty wonderful, though obviously not as great as the novel. My only minor issue with the film is that the last half hour of the film really drags.

[Irish]

Bela Tarr's filmmaking style is something I've been interested in seeing for a while because slow, meditative films fascinate me as a filmmaker. The only things keeping me from committing otherwise are the daunting 7 1/2 hour run time, depressing story and philosophical ideas that I worry could go over my head. So I ask this of you, my fellow Match-Cutters: knowing my film tastes, would I be into Satantango?

I would go because this kind of event doesn't happen very often. It's also the sorta thing you'll remember for decades to come. It'll become something you will talk about.

(And if you don't like it, just leave at the intermission! That'll be part of your story too.)

[Dukefrukem]

Definition of Gen X is early 80s. I qualify,

Plus they never would have made those pepsi generation x commercials advertising directly to me in the 90s.

I definitely qualify. Bah... took this from the WSJ and looks like it's layered.

https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/B3-FK974_SRHOUS_16U_2019111117395 9.jpg

edit: Tweeted to host the image.

1194320439755104256

[Skitch]

It looks like it ends at...81?

[MadMan]

I was born in 1986 so I don't think I'm Gen X. Honestly I had to Google it.

[MadMan]

Because he’s black, that’s why.Most likely.

[MadMan]

From an outsider's perspective, Democrats and Republicans have always looked like two sides of the same coin, specially where foreign policies are concerned.

Oh yeah both suck on foreign policy. At times the Dems are less likely to go for big wars these days but that is only because of Iraq. I give it 10 years or less before the US does something like invading Iran.

[Ezee E]

I'd like to add that I'm PEAK GEN-X in a way.

How has no one called out the "Greatest Generation" for being a bunch of elitists?

[Skitch]

Because literally slaughtering Nazi-faces gives you a lifetime pass.

[Ezee E]

Because literally slaughtering Nazi-faces gives you a lifetime pass.

That works.

[Skitch]

How are you peak gen-x btw?

[baby doll]

How are you peak gen-x btw?He wears flannel and used to date Courtney Love.

[baby doll]

It looks like it ends at...81?Or six months into '82 at the latest.

[Dukefrukem]

Because literally slaughtering Nazi-faces gives you a lifetime pass.

Also they survived the great depression right before that.

[baby doll]

Some Gen-X icons:

Kurt Cobain (b. 1964)
Claire Daines (b. 1979)
Bret Easton Ellis (b. 1964)
Nigel Farage (b. 1964)
Courtney Love (b. 1964)
River Phoenix (b. 1970)
Keanu Reeves (b. 1964)
Winona Ryder (b. 1971)
Paul Ryan (b. 1970)
Tupac Shakur (b. 1971)
Eddie Vedder (b. 1964)

[Skitch]

Also they survived the great depression right before that.

Point. Yeah I may not agree with all the older gens, but I wouldn't say shit to that gen. Holy shit.

[Irish]

Some Gen-X icons:

Kurt Cobain (b. 1964)
Claire Daines (b. 1979)
Bret Easton Ellis (b. 1964)
Nigel Farage (b. 1964)
Courtney Love (b. 1964)
River Phoenix (b. 1970)
Keanu Reeves (b. 1964)
Winona Ryder (b. 1971)
Paul Ryan (b. 1970)
Tupac Shakur (b. 1971)
Eddie Vedder (b. 1964)

WTF


I wouldn't say shit to that gen

tbf you couldn't even if you wanted to --- most of them are dead

[Skitch]

tbf you couldn't even if you wanted to --- most of them are dead
How dare you point out my privilege.

[MadMan]

Boomers really screwed up everything after the Greatest Generation survived the Depression and WW2.

[TGM]

http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?6670-The-Match-Cut-2017-Political-Thread-(or-The-Lord-of-the-Leaks-The-Trump-Towers)

Love how this just got completely and immediately ignored, and continues to do so...

[Ivan Drago]

I just got home from Sátántangó and still trying to put my thoughts and feelings about it into words. So for now, all I will say is this:

I am forever changed.

[Ivan Drago]

Okay so basically I went into Sátántangó hoping to learn something about the style of ‘slow cinema’, and got all that and then some. Tarr’s trademark long takes, black-and-white cinematography and haunting sound design create an ominous tone and chilling atmosphere that leaves room for the audience to ponder over storytelling motifs that parallels its characters to animals, and meditate over how they each process time as they wait with despair and uncertainty for their unreliable prophet to return to their village, often times sauntering from shot to shot like spectres rather than human beings. Images of the Doctor running through the woods at night underneath falling rain screaming for Estike, and immersive wide shots of characters walking toward the horizon as ambient wind blows around them remain seared into my brain, and leave me contemplating the film’s ideas about the monstrousness of artistry, self-destruction, blind loyalism, dictatorship, and the absence of governance right here and now, to the point where I’m shaken to the core. Sátántangó is one of the best films I’ve ever seen, and boasts one of the most visceral, singular movie-watching experiences I’ve ever had. I cannot thank those who encouraged me enough for talking me into seeing this.

[StanleyK]

I just got home from Sátántangó and still trying to put my thoughts and feelings about it into words. So for now, all I will say is this:

I am forever changed.

Be honest, did you stay fully awake for the entire duration of the film?

[baby doll]

Be honest, did you stay fully awake for the entire duration of the film?I've seen the film several times and never had trouble staying awake.

[megladon8]

How many breaks were there during the viewing?

[Ivan Drago]

Be honest, did you stay fully awake for the entire duration of the film?

I did! And there were two breaks; one every 2 1/2 hours.

[StanleyK]

I did! And there were two breaks; one every 2 1/2 hours.

Kudos, I watched a screening with two breaks as well and even with the excellence of the film I started to kinda doze off towards the end lol. I think when I eventually rewatch I'll split over a few days.

[Ivan Drago]

Kudos, I watched a screening with two breaks as well and even with the excellence of the film I started to kinda doze off towards the end lol. I think when I eventually rewatch I'll split over a few days.

It definitely dragged for the third-to-last and the penultimate chapter. But THEN....

...The Doctor returned to his now-empty village, oblivious to how and why the townsfolk had abandoned it. And what he does upon discovering how alone he was and how incalcuable his future was is so chilling in its hopelessness that I doubt it'll ever leave my mind.

[megladon8]

Is it pretty much only available to be seen when it pops up for a showing here and there?

A search for DVD / BR copies yielded only non-R1 and/or OOP copies for extravagant prices.

[Grouchy]

The Irishman opened in only one theater in all of Buenos Aires - one that's far, far away from where I live and work and only has two showings some days of the week. Most theater chains and owners simply refused to show it because it opens on Netflix next week.

I'm still going, of course. I don't know how many more new Scorsese films I'll get to watch on the big screen.

[Grouchy]

By the way, has anyone here commented on this (https://www.indiewire.com/2019/11/mark-ruffalo-solution-marvel-movie-problem-1202189203/?fbclid=IwAR3zAVYglpgN2ZsVzClu gwEpHbEQ-51_8rh-lq1Gwv7OwFKlzjPsRBh3cLA) yet? Mark Ruffalo proposing a national film endowment to address Scorsese's Marvel problem. I think many yanks would consider this something akin to the dreaded Red Scare, but it's the best take I've read on the subject so far.

[Ivan Drago]

Is it pretty much only available to be seen when it pops up for a showing here and there?

A search for DVD / BR copies yielded only non-R1 and/or OOP copies for extravagant prices.

It's going to be released on blu-ray early next year after the 4K restoration finishes its theatrical run. I'm buying it for sure.

[PURPLE]

By the way, has anyone here commented on this (https://www.indiewire.com/2019/11/mark-ruffalo-solution-marvel-movie-problem-1202189203/?fbclid=IwAR3zAVYglpgN2ZsVzClu gwEpHbEQ-51_8rh-lq1Gwv7OwFKlzjPsRBh3cLA) yet? Mark Ruffalo proposing a national film endowment to address Scorsese's Marvel problem. I think many yanks would consider this something akin to the dreaded Red Scare, but it's the best take I've read on the subject so far.The Red is what we need. The film subsidies behind the Iron Curtain produced some of the most fascinating and some of the most unusual films ever made. The Polish system in particular was quite interesting. There are better articles on the internet to read about it, but if I recall correctly they created film units consisting of directors, cinematographers, etc. that were essentially entirely self-directed. Their sole responsibility was to make films, not make a specific type of film. This birthed Kieslowski, Zulawski, etc. The Czech system produced an insane amount of great films in a short period, and the Soviet system gave insane budgets to War and Peace as well as to Solaris, and gave money to German and Sokurov and others to make totally uncommercial films. From a capitalist perspective, the Brits birthed both Jarman and Greenaway through public endowments. Red is the color of great, daring art!

Sure, the Soviets banned a lot of great art, but Ruffalo was in Margaret so...

[baby doll]

The Red is what we need. The film subsidies behind the Iron Curtain produced some of the most fascinating and some of the most unusual films ever made. The Polish system in particular was quite interesting. There are better articles on the internet to read about it, but if I recall correctly they created film units consisting of directors, cinematographers, etc. that were essentially entirely self-directed. Their sole responsibility was to make films, not make a specific type of film. This birthed Kieslowski, Zulawski, etc. The Czech system produced an insane amount of great films in a short period, and the Soviet system gave insane budgets to War and Peace as well as to Solaris, and gave money to German and Sokurov and others to make totally uncommercial films. From a capitalist perspective, the Brits birthed both Jarman and Greenaway through public endowments. Red is the color of great, daring art!

Sure, the Soviets banned a lot of great art, but Ruffalo was in Margaret so...As much as I admire Wajda's Ashes and Diamonds, Kawalerowicz's Mother Joan of the Angels, and Zanussi's Illumination, I'm not sure I'd want to live in communist Poland (or, for that matter, Thatcher-era England).

In any case, the premise that state-subsidized filmmaking automatically leads to aesthetically freewheeling masterpieces strikes me as dubious at best. Canada's National Film Board is hardly a hotbed of avant-garde experimentation, and most of the Eastern Bloc films you cite appeared during periods of relative liberalization (e.g., the Prague Spring produced some great films in a short period, but the key phrase here is "short period").

Furthermore, one could point out that the masterpieces of the Japanese New Wave, which were contemporary with the Czech, Polish, and Russian films you cite, were made within a purely capitalistic system: Imamura, Oshima, Shinoda, and Yoshida all got their start as contract directors for vertically integrated studios, and even after forming independent production companies and partnering with the ATG distribution company, their careers were still completely at the mercy of the free market.

Also, I'm curious how your enthusiasm for socialist art squares with your loudly professed belief in Romantic individualism. There's nothing more bourgeois than the idea of the artist as a uniquely creative individual (as opposed to an ordinary labourer, which is how Dziga Vertov saw his man with a movie camera), and the Soviet filmmaker who is most associated with this Romantic conception of the artist, Tarkovsky, died in exile.

[StuSmallz]

I've been thinking some about the overall concept of subtlety in film lately, and how, in my experience, most people in the serious cinephile community (at least, the ones that are serious enough to post in-depth discussions on film forums) tend to prefer a "less is more" approach when it comes to cinematic storytelling, seeing as how I've read far, FAR more criticism in my time directed at films for trying to hit us too hard over the collective head with super-obvious visual representations of themes, too much reliance on overly expository dialogue (as much as I love him otherwise, Nolan, anyone?), or characterizations that are far too broad, unrealistic, and dumbed down for ease of mass consumption, and I've certainly seen a lot more complaining about those flaws than I've seen criticism for filmmakers understating elements in their films, as that usually tends to be welcomed. And, to be fair, I'm generally of that same mind, as I usually prefer a "less is more" approach to film, one that's as subtle as possible while still retaining a maximum effective impact, but not all the time, since, as always, there are certain exceptions to that "rule", which I can see when comparing the various Statue Of Liberty shots in the first two Godfathers:


https://i.imgur.com/mwlr4an.jpg


Taking a look at the shot in "leave the gun, take the cannoli" scene the original film, I have to say that, while certainly not a bad piece of cinematography (did that film actually have any?), the contrast of the bloodiness of gangland execution in the midground with the ideals represented by Statue in the back still strikes me like the film is trying to be too "clever" about fitting in some visual irony, and the juxtaposition honestly feels somewhat amateur-ish to me. I feel like the shot would've worked better without the Statue, as you'd still have the contrast of the field of wheat swaying peacefully in the foreground (and behind the car as well), placed against a guy getting his brains blown out, and, while the shot certainly reinforces the film's theme of shining a light on the dark side of the American dream, it doesn't strike me as any more effective or appropriate than the much-derided "SuperJesus" shot in Man Of Steel (https://i.imgur.com/lXL0TYJ.jpg), and it sticks out as the foremost representation of my main complaint (https://corrierino.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=852#p1240241) with The Godfather feeling like it was trying to put on the skin of a "great" film, rather than letting that greatness occur more naturally. And the shot's not even that subtle anyway, as the camera lingers on it for far too long for anyone to not notice the Statue back there, so it strikes me as neither hot nor cold, but the proverbial "lukewarm", and it either should've been underplayed more (either by cutting it down, cutting it out completely, or reshooting or editing it so that the Statue isn't in the shot at the same time as the actual murder), or just gone all the way, so to speak, like the Statue shot in Part II:


https://i.imgur.com/Pk2xS7O.jpg


Of course, this shot isn't "subtle" in its symbolism at all, as, even before Vito walks into the shot, we can still see it in the window, looming larger even in reflection than it did in the original, and when Vito walks up and stares out, there's no keeping our eyes from being directed to what he's looking at as well, but, as a result of this up-frontness, it's far more evocative and memorable, with the sight of a young, innocent Vito, after having witnessed the violent murder of his mother (and having just barely escaped death himself) looking out and getting inspiration from the sight of Lady Liberty like so many other new immigrants of that time, but unlike them, this is contrasted with the chilling foreknowledge we possess from the original of what exactly he ended up doing with the freedom represented by that statue, partly as a result of his brush with death that we just witnessed, so it sets up his entire arc across both films pretty much perfectly. And, in doing this, Part II calls back to this visual motif of its predecessor, while still significantly improving upon it, and showing a way that Coppola had grown as a filmmaker between films. Anyway, what say you guys? Do you have any general thoughts on the overall subject of subtlety in cinematic style versus all-out maximalism, or any other specific examples of "more being more" in film?

[Yxklyx]

I dunno. I like that scene from The Godfather - can't a movie just have ONE obvious shot like this? Some movies can be littered with them - and it works because of the movie's style/tone. I think what you're saying is that the style/tone of the rest of the film doesn't mesh with that scene.

[Grouchy]

the premise that state-subsidized filmmaking automatically leads to aesthetically freewheeling masterpieces strikes me as dubious at best
That premise is ridiculous and it's not what I'm talking about. I would argue that state-subsidized filmmaking leads to movies that wouldn't be made otherwise due to their limited commercial appeal.

[Ezee E]

I'm kind of confused. Are we supporting the idea of "less is more" with images contributing to theme?

I'm very much for it as long as it's done with a little ambiguity, and not as a punchline. In fact, I think it's necessary for the artform. It should also apply to the characters, and not just the viewers.

But like anything, it can be done wrong... an example:

The Departed's final image of a rat walking along the window is nearly 4th Wall-Breaking. I don't even think this was meant to be comedic, but it definitely comes across that way for how obvious it was. Unlike the earlier mentioned Godfather images, which resonate with Vito Corleone for understandable reasons, "I believe in America," this is an image that only applies to the audience.

[baby doll]

That premise is ridiculous and it's not what I'm talking about. I would argue that state-subsidized filmmaking leads to movies that wouldn't be made otherwise due to their limited commercial appeal.I didn't think you were. I was responding to Purple's bizarre claim that Eastern Bloc countries were throwing wads of cash at filmmakers to use however they wished.