28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Ezee E]

Hmm... My arthouse is showing a bunch of Kurosawa films. I wonder if they got prints, or if it's just a DVD. Might be a good time to rewatch Seven Samurai that way.

[Spinal]

Watched Life is Beautiful for the first time in ten years. Odd movie. Only the power of broad comedy will help your son survive a weird fantasy version of the holocaust.

I think the movie works. I don't think it's about the specifics of the Holocaust. I think it's about the generality of parenthood. It's about the conflict between the perfect world a father wishes for his son and the world as it actually is, often full of inexplicable cruelty. Although there is perhaps not a lot of historical truth, there is truth to be found in the father's desperation and self-sacrifice.

[eternity]

The family wants to go see The Change-Up today, so...that's going to happen. Ick.

[Raiders]

I think the movie works. I don't think it's about the specifics of the Holocaust. I think it's about the generality of parenthood. It's about the conflict between the perfect world a father wishes for his son and the world as it actually is, often full of inexplicable cruelty. Although there is perhaps not a lot of historical truth, there is truth to be found in the father's desperation and self-sacrifice.

I don't know. It struck me as by-and-large dangerous and irresponsible parenting, even despite the already terrible circumstances.

[transmogrifier]

I remember really liking Life is Beautiful, which is obviously a parable that many people for some reason expect to be gritty realism because of the subject matter. Don't remember much else about it though.

[Winston*]

I don't think the movie works and I understand its not a literal Holocaust Film. Basically I think the movie's about the triumph of Benigni's world-view and character over great adversity, and that adversity's represented by the Holocaust. So in the end it can have the mother and son surviving due to his ingenuity and self-sacrifice.

The problem with this is that in order to make this work Benigni has to de-fang the Holocaust: the Hogan's Heroes SS, the prank him and his son play with the intercom etc. Since he has to soften the adversity in this way, to me it makes the message of the film kind of meaningless. If you're going to use a historical event like the Holocaust as your character's crucible, I think you need to portray it in an emotionally authentic way.

[Sven]

The hardest thing for me to swallow was how stupid his kid was.

[Irish]

I don't know. It struck me as by-and-large dangerous and irresponsible parenting, even despite the already terrible circumstances.

Can you expound on that a bit? The last thing that occurs to me in the context of a death camp is something like "irresponsible parenting."

[Irish]

I don't think the movie works and I understand its not a literal Holocaust Film. Basically I think the movie's about the triumph of Benigni's world-view and character over great adversity, and that adversity's represented by the Holocaust. So in the end it can have the mother and son surviving due to his ingenuity and self-sacrifice.

The problem with this is that in order to make this work Benigni has to de-fang the Holocaust: the Hogan's Heroes SS, the prank him and his son play with the intercom etc. Since he has to soften the adversity in this way, to me it makes the message of the film kind of meaningless. If you're going to use a historical event like the Holocaust as your character's crucible, I think you need to portray it in an emotionally authentic way.

I disagree that he 'de-fangs' the Holocaust, at least not to something so broad as Hogan's Heroes. The balance he's playing with is tricky. He goes to dark, it ruins the comedy and the tone of the entire movie. He goes too light, and he falls into what you're accusing him of, being inauthentic and worse, being inauthentic for the sake of a laugh.

The biggest message of this movie lies in Guido's complete refusal to let the ugliness around him change who he is. He never gives into dispair, he never pushes back, he never succumbs to self pity. He knows who he is and what he values, so whatever the Nazis and anti-semitics do and say doesn't matter to him at all. Instead, Guido continues to the clown but he does so as a man of immense dignity. Up until the very end, he never wavers.

[Winston*]

Instead, Guido continues to the clown but he does so as a man of immense dignity. Up until the very end, he never wavers.

Yes, because the film portrays the Holocaust in a disingenuous manner that allows this to be the case.

[Irish]

Yes, because the film portrays the Holocaust in a disingenuous manner that allows this to be the case.

How so?

[Winston*]

How so?

I just talked about this in my previous post.

[Mysterious Dude]

Little Jewish boys did not sneak into the offices of Nazi death camps to usurp the intercom and live to tell about it.

[Irish]

I just talked about this in my previous post.

Oh. I was asking for more specific examples from the movie.

Historical inaccuracy does not automatically means emotional inauthenticity. It's the movies. You can just as easily claim that the LiB presents an overly idyllic view of pre-war Italy. But does that matter, given what Beningni is trying to achieve?

Whatever is on the screen needs to serve the story and the themes. In my mind, LiB does that and does it well.

[Winston*]

It does matter because he chose the Holocaust as the vessel through which to portray those themes. I'm not asking for strict historical accuracy, but scenes such as this:

Little Jewish boys did not sneak into the offices of Nazi death camps to usurp the intercom and live to tell about it.

Or the Shawshank redemption bit where Guido hijacks the gramaphone, or bit where his son just wanders away from the shower soften the real world event he's utilising too much. If you have to sanitise your chosen background to this extent to make your themes work, then use a different background. I'm repeating myself.

[Irish]

It does matter because he chose the Holocaust as the vessel through which to portray those themes. I'm not asking for strict historical accuracy, but scenes such as this:

Or the Shawshank redemption bit where Guido hijacks the gramaphone, or bit where his son just wanders away from the shower soften the real world event he's utilising too much. If you have to sanitise your chosen background to this extent to make your themes work, then use a different background. I'm repeating myself.

It sounds like you're on the more conservative side of the controversy that surrounded this movie when it was released. That the Holocaust is too big a subject, and defeats reason and imagination when you try and interpret it, that a movie attempting fable and genre mista around it is wholly inappropriate.

I think that's valid, to a degree, and a really interesting question. It's one I've never really been able to answer for myself, because while I can see the validity of the criticisms, at the same time I don't think it's Beningni's responsibility, or anyone else's, to treat these events as so sacrosanct that they defy storytelling and new interpretation.

Holding him to a rigid historical reality seems, to me, completely contrary to the overall point of the film, though, and blindly misses out on the beauty he was trying to convey.

PS: For some perspective what's possible for a little kid in concentration camps, by the way, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Schleifstein

PPS: If you want to consider the fluidity of true war stories, read this: http://www.stg.brown.edu/projects/WritingVietnam/readings/tob_true_war.html

[chrisnu]

Just watched Far From Heaven for the first time. I shouldn't have waited so long. Absolutely love it. Wouldn't change a thing about it.

[Spinal]

Vincent Gallo is being all crazy again ...


Specifically, a recent report at The Playlist found Gallo announcing that after a grand total of two festival outings, Promises [Written in Water] is never to be publicly screened again – because, from here on, "I do not want my new works to be generated in a market or audience of any kind."

It's a stance confirmed by his production company's website, one seemingly applied not just to the movie in question, but another made since that will now never know the simple pleasures of a paying crowd. Instead, says its maker, it is to be "stored [...] without being exposed to the dark energies from the public."

Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog/2011/aug/05/vincent-gallo-promises-written-water)

[Ezee E]

Good. Check that off as a shitty movie that won't take up a valuable spot at Telluride then.

NOTE: Love Buffalo '66 which I'm thinking was a fluke.

[chrisnu]

Just watched Far From Heaven for the first time. I shouldn't have waited so long. Absolutely love it. Wouldn't change a thing about it.
This reminds me, I need to check out the rest of Todd Haynes' filmography, given that I've now given two of his films perfect 10s (this and Safe).

[Derek]

Good. Check that off as a shitty movie that won't take up a valuable spot at Telluride then.

NOTE: Love Buffalo '66 which I'm thinking was a fluke.

That's pretty strange that you love one of his two features, yet are excessively happy that you won't get to see his new movie. Why always so dismissive all of a sudden?

[Irish]

Vincent Gallo is being all crazy again ...

So in other words, he's decided to become a producer of ... home movies?

[Ezee E]

That's pretty strange that you love one of his two features, yet are excessively happy that you won't get to see his new movie. Why always so dismissive all of a sudden?
I saw The Brown Bunny and a Q&A of his. I'd venture to say he'd be more interested in that direction.

[Ezee E]

And this is why:

He began filming without any preparation or a traditional script and did not in any way let his cast or crew in on the film's vision choosing instead to work with those around him unaware of things. Gallo stated however he did work closely with a few crew members including his cinematographer who was the only one who knew when they were actually filming or not. Gallo laughed at the rumors that he staged a coup to make this new film and suggested journalist will write simpleminded things to describe things they could never understand or ever care to understand. He explained the concept and process of making his new film may not fit easily into tabloid format and so writers will stick to easy brush-offs to avoid their own shortcomings. Gallo has not made himself open to the cinema press since 2004 and has completely avoided exchange with anyone from the press for most of the period since The Brown Bunny.

[Derek]

And this is why:

So you're sticking to easy brush-offs to avoid your own shortcomings? ;)

But seriously, I didn't realize that about the new project. I actually think The Brown Bunny is pretty good and I enjoy Gallo-crazy so I'd still love to see this new film, but I see where you're coming from now.

[Irish]

Choices tonight:

- Rango
- Source Code
- The Beaver

Not sure why, but I'm going with Beaver. Uhm. The Beaver.

[Boner M]

Not sure why, but I'm going with Beaver. Uhm. The Beaver.
Ahem; Jodie Foster's Beaver.

[Spinal]

I actually think The Brown Bunny is pretty good ...

I agree. I've said it before, but the much-maligned bj scene is actually quite effective in context.

[Boner M]

If Gallo sticks to his guns, my having seen Promises Written in Water at one of its two festival outings will forever be one of my greatest prides.

[transmogrifier]

the much-maligned bj scene

Heh, that's not how I remember it :)

[Qrazy]

Interesting conversation about Life is Beautiful, but the film is such a formal piece of shit, who cares.

[Spinal]

The heart of a film, the essence of what it is able to convey to a viewer is so much more interesting to me than its formal qualities. I don't remember immaculate photography or impeccable editing. I remember what it made me feel and think. If it's different for you, so be it.

[transmogrifier]

The heart of a film, the essence of what it is able to convey to a viewer is so much more interesting to me than its formal qualities. I don't remember immaculate photography or impeccable editing. I remember what it made me feel and think. If it's different for you, so be it.

Exactly. Evaluating this on its formal qualities is like evaluating The Tree of Life by its comic set pieces.

[Irish]

Fuckin' Beaver, man. I hate you.

[Qrazy]

Exactly. Evaluating this on its formal qualities is like evaluating The Tree of Life by its comic set pieces.

No, it's actually nothing like that.

[Qrazy]

The heart of a film, the essence of what it is able to convey to a viewer is so much more interesting to me than its formal qualities. I don't remember immaculate photography or impeccable editing. I remember what it made me feel and think. If it's different for you, so be it.

I require both. The essence of this film imo is manipulative treacle. It just doesn't help that it's wrapped in an ugly blanket of formal ineptitude. :D

[elixir]

So, I thought Dogville was really great. Not sure why people get so up in arms about the anti-American small towns thing, though the ending credits montage is pretty stupid. I think it was just in a town to more clearly relay what Trier was saying, but considering how many times throughout the film the idea of universality came out, I think we're supposed to think that the things that happened in the town (on a allegorical level) can happen anywhere...it's just exacerbated by being in a contained community, and the device used to relay this was bold and brilliant, I thought. Also of note I think is Tom's character--I've read somewhere than von Trier says he relates to his female protagonists, and I don't necessarily doubt that, but I couldn't help but feel he identified with Tom as well, who I find to be maybe the most interesting character in the film--constant claims about "illustration," and well, obviously it brings up von Treir's own illustration through the allegorical narrative as well as the literal illustration of the chalk lines and the set. Trier certainly gets great performances out of his female characters. Loved the conversation about arrogance, very smartly written but never smug I don't think. I still find some of von Trier's irony (though the narration is mostly great), contrivances, and pessimistic outlook a bit frustrating--though granted the cynicism serves for a great purpose here, it's not just empty bleakness--but overall I'm quite impressed.

[B-side]

Buffalo '66 and The Brown Bunny are both great. I was incredibly excited for Promises Written in Water. I desperately hope he caves and releases it in some format.

[Irish]

This is pretty interesting:

http://www.ebertpresents.com/movies/the-black-marble/videos/261

Lengthy clip of Siskel and Ebert and their old Sneak Previews show. This goes "behind the scenes" into the life of a critic and takes you into the offices and screening rooms as these guys review a movie.

[Ezee E]

Nicole Kidman somehow back to looking good again:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/367023969.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=A KIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1312735250&Signature=jplECiU4fYsunI3yVvJI TkZpYWM%3D

[B-side]

Kelly Reichardt's (yes, that Kelly Reichardt) first film, River of Grass, is a Jon Jost-influenced de-romanticization of the "Bonnie and Clyde" narrative. Violent passion is replaced with awkward co-dependence. The beautiful couple is replaced by two average small town people. The crimes are silly and almost satirical. Their mutual ennui brings them together, and an aging cop's gun, carelessly forgotten, is the impetus that brings about their new and exciting identity of murderers on the run; a superior alternative to the tedium they seem to have inherited from their parents. Having not actually hurt the person they accidentally shot at, let alone killed him, they spend the majority of the film hiding out in cheap motels and running from the tail they never actually acquired. This is a long shot stylistically from the minimalism she's known for, though I'd say it's better than Wendy and Lucy, the only other film of hers I've seen, which I did enjoy.

[Sven]

Finally watched Forbidden Planet. Totally groovy.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Finally watched Forbidden Planet. Totally groovy.

Excellent. I love how it stuffs some delicious subtext into its Buck Rogers-and-Shakespeare sandwich. Also, lovely film.

[Irish]

a Jon Jost-influenced

Whoa. There's a name I haven't heard in ages and ages.

[B-side]

Whoa. There's a name I haven't heard in ages and ages.

I'm a big fan of his. Haven't watched anything of his in a bit, though.

[Irish]

I'm a big fan of his. Haven't watched anything of his in a bit, though.

Heh! Never met anyone who described themselves as a fan. I met once of his producers once, Henry Rosenthal, the guy who did Vermeers. That was a strange and disturbing experience. He was bitter and stressed and kinda ugly about indie movies.

[B-side]

Heh! Never met anyone who described themselves as a fan. I met once of his producers once, Henry Rosenthal, the guy who did Vermeers. That was a strange and disturbing experience. He was bitter and stressed and kinda ugly about indie movies.

Huh. I know Boner's a fan, too. Jost is good people.

[Boner M]

I've only seen Last Chants for a Slow Dance but I loved it and I'm sure I'd be a fan if I saw more of his. Many cinephiles swear by him; Rosenbaum and Adrian Martin esp, and Godard once called him the greatest living American filmmaker.

From what I gather he once a pretty big deal before facing homelessness in the mid/late-90's and relocating to Portugal; I've read his name mentioned in 90's reference books and magazine articles alongside Linklater, Jarmusch, Hartley, Haynes and many other big names of that era's indie boom. Seems like a textbook example of a filmmaker ripe for DVD rediscovery. He still churns out DV cheapies but they rarely get seen outside of tiny European festivals.

[B-side]

I've only seen Last Chants for a Slow Dance but I loved it and I'm sure I'd be a fan if I saw more of his. Many cinephiles swear by him; Rosenbaum and Adrian Martin esp, and Godard once called him the greatest living American filmmaker.

From what I gather he once a pretty big deal before facing homelessness in the mid/late-90's and relocating to Portugal; I've read his name mentioned in 90's reference books and magazine articles alongside Linklater, Jarmusch, Hartley, Haynes and many other big names of that era's indie boom. Seems like a textbook example of a filmmaker ripe for DVD rediscovery. He still churns out DV cheapies but they rarely get seen outside of tiny European festivals.

I believe he's living in South Korea right now doing a teaching gig. He's still hard at work on films and doesn't seem like he plans on stopping anytime soon.

[Irish]

Was Luc Besson's The Extraordinary Adventures of Adele Blanc-Sec ever released in the US?

[Pop Trash]

From what I gather he once a pretty big deal before facing homelessness in the mid/late-90's and relocating to Portugal; I've read his name mentioned in 90's reference books and magazine articles alongside Linklater, Jarmusch, Hartley, Haynes and many other big names of that era's indie boom. Seems like a textbook example of a filmmaker ripe for DVD rediscovery. He still churns out DV cheapies but they rarely get seen outside of tiny European festivals.

There was an article about him in The Times recently. They discovered he was living in someones place in like Kansas or Montana (?) or something since he was flat broke. Very sad, since I know he was well regarded in the 80s/90s American indie film scene.

[Stay Puft]

Was Luc Besson's The Extraordinary Adventures of Adele Blanc-Sec ever released in the US?

Nope.

Actually forgot about this, though, so thanks for reminding me. Gotta go find a copy.

[Mara]

I watched The Ghost Writer for Olivia Williams, and so was not disappointed. They should come out with a six hour film called Olivia Williams is an Icy Bitch. I'd be there.

Other than that, I'm not sure the film really lived up to its bleak, gorgeous setting and aesthetics. The story was rather mundane and obvious, not too different from whatever political thriller comes out every summer, except this one was all dressed up in its nicest clothes and permitted to sit at the big kids' table.

Kim Cattrall was completely miscast and her accent was all over the map.

[Ezee E]

I watched The Ghost Writer for Olivia Williams, and so was not disappointed. They should come out with a six hour film called Olivia Williams is an Icy Bitch. I'd be there.

Other than that, I'm not sure the film really lived up to its bleak, gorgeous setting and aesthetics. The story was rather mundane and obvious, not too different from whatever political thriller comes out every summer, except this one was all dressed up in its nicest clothes and permitted to sit at the big kids' table.

Kim Cattrall was completely miscast and her accent was all over the map.
I want to live in that house though.

[Mara]

I want to live in that house though.

I want that wooden bathtub. Ayup.

[MadMan]

I thought that The Ghost Writer was really well made, and very efficient. Some of the political material didn't either go far enough, or was really way too obvious-in this case Polanski would have been better off going for something more deeper. Still its a fine, well made movie, and I love how it ends. I'm glad that Pierce Brosman has been able to get roles beyond James Bond, although my favorite one of his is still his alcoholic hitman in The Matador.

[B-side]

Boner, if you haven't seen David Holzman's Diary, it strikes me as something you'd rather enjoy.

[Boner M]

Boner, if you haven't seen David Holzman's Diary, it strikes me as something you'd rather enjoy.

Something I should've enjoyed, indeed; I saw it a few years ago and didn't care for it. Can't remember much except that I found the film padded and Holzman grating. I might give it another look someday; don't trust my initial reaction.

[Morris Schæffer]

The Ghost Writer is still my fave of 2010, but I understand what Mara is saying. Not an issue for me. The direction, atmoshpere, locations, all masterful. And that's where it's at. True originals rarely come along - Inception was one (1!) - and so most movies are a sort of derivative of others, but again, I didn't notice this. It practically felt like a true original.

[baby doll]

True originals rarely come along - Inception was one (1!)How are we defining "true" originality? I'll willingly concede that the film has a fairly novel SF premise, but it adheres to principles of continuity editing (notably, parallel montage) which have been around since the late 1910s, and storytelling techniques (stories-within-stories) which have been around for more than a millenia.

[Melville]

How are we defining "true" originality? I'll willingly concede that the film has a fairly novel SF premise.
It was a much more interesting premise than that of most Hollywood blockbusters, but people entering each other's dreams isn't novel, and even many of the details of the premise were already done in a Scrooge McDuck comic. I thought the movie's success lay in how well it made use of that premise with those traditional techniques you mentioned, not in the originality of the different elements.

[Sven]

and even many of the details of the premise were already done in a Scrooge McDuck comic.

I have yet to get over how awesome this is.

[Spun Lepton]

Original, if you don't include all of the primitive drawings about caveman dreams.

I mean, that's what you mean by using the term "original," right Morris? Ultimately and absolutely original, correct?

:|

[Thirdmango]

In the past couple days I watched the Transporter movies. Wanted some mindless action. The second was pretty terrible but both the first and third were better then expected, I think I actually liked the third the best.

[Thirdmango]

Just went back and read some life is beautiful stuff. One of the best decisions I ever or specifically didn't make is how ignorant I was to the movie at the time I watched it. I knew absolutely nothing, so watching the first half I thought it would stay a simple love story, I had no idea the holocaust was coming in the movie and so it was especially impactful in that way.

[B-side]

Something I should've enjoyed, indeed; I saw it a few years ago and didn't care for it. Can't remember much except that I found the film padded and Holzman grating. I might give it another look someday; don't trust my initial reaction.

I had a feeling you'd seen it. I was distracted while I was watching, but I still rather enjoyed it. I'd definitely recommend you give it another go.

[StanleyK]

Happened to watch For the Birds again today. Neat little story, and it makes some great use of sound and frames. I think Pixar has a better track record with their shorts, which tend to be more accomplished and entertaining than their feature films.

[MadMan]

Happened to watch For the Birds again today. Neat little story, and it makes some great use of sound and frames. I think Pixar has a better track record with their shorts, which tend to be more accomplished and entertaining than their feature films.I agree with this to a certain degree, as Geri's Game is fantastic and I love For The Birds. However I still haven't viewed Wall-E or Toy Story 3 yet.

[Morris Schæffer]

How are we defining "true" originality? I'll willingly concede that the film has a fairly novel SF premise, but it adheres to principles of continuity editing (notably, parallel montage) which have been around since the late 1910s, and storytelling techniques (stories-within-stories) which have been around for more than a millenia.

In Belgium we have a saying "fucking an ant up the ass." I believe here it's called splitting hairs. :D

Even without doing much thinking, Inception seems to have no equals in the past ten years. That's good enough for me. 1910, that's like before I was born. :D

[Irish]

It was a much more interesting premise than that of most Hollywood blockbusters, but people entering each other's dreams isn't novel, and even many of the details of the premise were already done in a Scrooge McDuck comic.

Also:
- The Lathe of Heaven (1980, based on Ursula Leguin's novel)
- Brainstorm (1983)
- Dreamscape (1984)

[kuehnepips]

In the past couple days I watched the Transporter movies. ... The second was pretty terrible ...

You don't like him gay, eh? :lol:

*note to self: Stay away from men from Belgium*

[Morris Schæffer]

Thirdmango is Belgian?

[MadMan]

Also:
- The Lathe of Heaven (1980, based on Ursula Leguin's novel)
- Brainstorm (1983)
- Dreamscape (1984)Haven't seen any of those save for Dreamscape, which despite its dated FX is awesome.

[Spinal]

Thirdmango is Belgian?

Unless I hear differently, I just assume everyone is Belgian.

[Spun Lepton]

Unless I hear differently, I just assume everyone is Belgian.

I LOVE BEER AND WAFFLES.

[Yxklyx]

Just went back and read some life is beautiful stuff. One of the best decisions I ever or specifically didn't make is how ignorant I was to the movie at the time I watched it. I knew absolutely nothing, so watching the first half I thought it would stay a simple love story, I had no idea the holocaust was coming in the movie and so it was especially impactful in that way.

Exactly the same here - looked like it was going to be a Light Italian Romance.

[MadMan]

I LOVE BEER AND WAFFLES.WE ARE ALL BELGIANS!

[B-side]

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/Miscellaneous/thedependentbanner.png

The Dependent deals with the surreal expedition into adulthood and married life of a lonely young man working under the tutelage of an old and ailing man in a hardware store. Preceding Lynch's similarly nightmarish tale of new adult anxiety by 8 years, it often feels like an influence with its thick atmosphere and insular world. Nothing seems to exist outside of the realm of this film, and it feels relentless because of it. All the emphasis is on the characters, but the atmosphere feels like a lingering possible threat. Favio has a fascinating and unique style driven by his manic and dynamic camera work. Fernández, the protagonist, meets a beautiful young woman while out in the streets of Argentina on a delivery, and her enigmatic behavior immediately draws him into her strange world. Her and her mother seem to switch roles between meek child and overly aggressive mother. The mother hasn't left her home since her husband died, who coincidentally resembles Fernández. An element of pitch black humor is introduced later in the film that I won't spoil. The ending is a fully macabre culmination of Fernández's fears. A very neat film.

[SirNewt]

Finally just caught "A Serious Man" and I'm just left scratching my head. I feel about as frustrated and confused as the main character. Can it be that that was the entire point of the movie?

[Spinal]

Finally just caught "A Serious Man" and I'm just left scratching my head. I feel about as frustrated and confused as the main character. Can it be that that was the entire point of the movie?

I found it to be straightforward, entertaining and satisfying personally. So, I would say no.

[Ezee E]

Finally just caught "A Serious Man" and I'm just left scratching my head. I feel about as frustrated and confused as the main character. Can it be that that was the entire point of the movie?
The thread we have about it has some great discussion on it which may help.

[Winston*]

Straightforward? Isn't the point of the film to be intentionally ambiguous? You could see this stuff as divine intervention or just randomness?

[Dead & Messed Up]

Straightforward? Isn't the point of the film to be intentionally ambiguous? You could see this stuff as divine intervention or just randomness?

It's straightforward about its ambiguity. We know that will be the subject from the first scene. There is no doubt that all is in doubt.

[Winston*]

It's straightforward about its ambiguity. We know that will be the subject from the first scene. There is no doubt that all is in doubt.

So you kind of are supposed to be as confused as the main character.

[Spinal]

The themes are expressed pretty clearly. It's basically laid out in the dentist scene.

[Winston*]

Just tell me if God exists or not, Spinal!

[SirNewt]

The themes are expressed pretty clearly. It's basically laid out in the dentist scene.

For sure. The idea of the chaotic universe leaving man at a loss with religion and science inadequate to explain its cruelty is pretty classic material. Quiet a few wagon wheels have dug that rut. I guess I expected more from the Coens.

I don't mean that disparagingly. The film is masterfully made. I just come away from a Coen movie with some new insight usually.

[Spinal]

Just tell me if God exists or not, Spinal!

What does your heart tell you?

[Winston*]

What does your heart tell you?

Can't say. If God does exist, I don't want St. Peter's evidence for my damnation to come from Match Cut transcripts.

[Arthur Seaton]

The Association of Black Women Historians is not a fan of The Help (http://www.abwh.org/images/pdf/TheHelp-Statement.pdf).

I think the movie looks like crap.

[Mara]

I think the movie looks like crap.

The book was crap.

[Mara]

The Association of Black Women Historians is not a fan of The Help (http://www.abwh.org/images/pdf/TheHelp-Statement.pdf).

That's a pretty good read, actually. It brought up a few of my issues with the book.

[baby doll]

If God does exist, I don't want St. Peter's evidence for my damnation to come from Match Cut transcripts.Damnation is a never-ending thread about the internal logic of Inception.

[Mara]

Damnation is a never-ending thread about the internal logic of Inception.

baby doll made a funny!

[MadMan]

I talked to God yesterday. Yep, God does exist. Now if only I could prove it...:P

[Arthur Seaton]

baby doll made a funny!

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. :D

[D_Davis]

Also:
- The Lathe of Heaven (1980, based on Ursula Leguin's novel)
- Brainstorm (1983)
- Dreamscape (1984)


Among many others, including:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5114J4YSRGL._SL500_AA300_.jpg



His name is Charles Render, and he is a psychoanalyst, and a mechanic of dreams. A Shaper. In a warm womb of metal, his patients dream their neuroses, while Render, intricately connected to their brains, dreams with them, makes delicate adjustments, and ultimately explains and heals. Her name is Eileen Shallot, a resident in psychiatry. She wants desperately to become a Shaper, though she has been blind from birth. Together, they will explore the depths of the human mind -- and the terrors that lurk therein

It's a SF convention as old as the genre.

[Derek]

Is there a 'Stupidest Thing You've Ever Heard About Movies' thread (or something along those lines) buried on this site? Because I heard something a couple months ago that still pisses me off for not only how stupid it was, but how disrespectful it was.

Is there an unwritten "Never Write Cliffhanging Posts So That People Have to Ask You to Complete Your Thoughts" law at MatchCut? If not, let's start one now. Drives me bonkers.

[Ivan Drago]

Is there an unwritten "Never Write Cliffhanging Posts So That People Have to Ask You to Complete Your Thoughts" law at MatchCut? If not, let's start one now. Drives me bonkers.

:shrug: Sorry. Found the closest thing to it anyway.

[Derek]

:shrug: Sorry. Found the closest thing to it anyway.

It's okay - yours seemed unintentional. :) It's just a pet peeve of mine when posters need people to inquire before posting what they already wanted to say. Out with it people, it's a message board. Fortunately, this is rarely an issue here at MC.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I saw the Help, and it's guilty of everything brought up in the article, including a bunch of really great performances. The whole female cast here is really really great, shame about the lackluster material.

[StanleyK]

I'In order to praise, criticize, just talk about something, you have to understand that thing, and Tarantino understands violence very well. The violence in Inglourious Basterds is scarily effective. Following the Leone and Kubrick school of thought, he draws out the scenes for as long as possible until there is a brief outburst of fury, meaning that when it happens, it really counts. I'm inclined to say this is his best film; it's the smartest one in a career of smart movies, the funniest comedy and the tensest thriller in recent memory, a very careful build-up to a finale that's as purely cathartic as it is questioning of that catharsis.

[MadMan]

Not to mention the massacre scene at the theater which was a clear display of QT paying homage to the famous last act of The Wild Bunch.

[Qrazy]

Not to mention the massacre scene at the theater which was a clear display of QT paying homage to the famous last act of The Wild Bunch.

It was?

[MadMan]

It was?Pretty damn obvious, yo. The extreme display of violence, the fact that those engaging in it didn't care if they were killed, so long as they blew away as many people as possible, etc....

Even if he wasn't playing direct homage, I can see the links to it. Which is cool to me. QT probably is the one director most influenced by Peckinpath these days, although John Woo also sort of comes to mind. Well at least in terms of The Killer and Hard Boiled, somewhat.

[Qrazy]

I don't really see how a suicide situation with a lot of violence makes it an homage. I feel like I've seen that in many films aside from The Wild Bunch including Butch Cassidy from the same year.

[elixir]

I feel like I should post some brief thoughts on my recent viewings.

In a Year with 13 Moons - Absolutely gorgeous and devastating stuff. Loved the use of doors that seemed to imprison the main character and some of the set designs were beautiful, especially the fractured mirror bathroom and the guy's apartment with all the candles. Interesting in its use of off-screen narration, which obviously isn't new, but I found the way it changes our understanding of what was being said (in conjunction with what's on screen) to be quite effective, in the slaughterhouse scene for sure but also in less obvious moments like at the orphanage when the camera reveals that the main character has collapsed.

Breakfast at Tiffany's - Yeah, what? Not sure how this is good in any way. I suppose the Hepburn factor has cemented the film's legacy, but honestly I'm not even too impressed with her. I don't even find her attractive. Anyways, an inane central love story told with bland, boring direction and irritating melodrama. WTF to Mickey Rooney's character.

Stalker - Good cinematography! FAITH! I'm still reeling quite a bit from the experience of having seen it and thus can't really form coherent thoughts or anything resembling insight in the least, but let's just say that Tarkovsky is the man...I actually don't see many talk about his writing but I found all the monologues (and dialogue) in the films to be quite effective and a great exploration of the film's themes while still feeling true to the characters (who are admittedly archetypes in many ways, which is fine). Still prefer The Mirror--a second watch of which has convinced me that it is top 5 status--but this packed quite a punch and has another awesome ending.

The Fountain - I want to like this film. I do. It is obviously quite earnest and I like films in which it feels like the director is baring their soul, and it deals with themes near and dear to me, but gosh, I found it all quite silly and ineffective. The central romance is not convincing in the least, the transitions between the storylines were ham-fisted--and I found the general use of the parallel storylines to be quite uneven and ineffective--and its "ambitious" attempts to tackle these big themes are so simplistic and literal-minded that they are robbed of any sort of emotion or specificity. I guess when you are earnest you open yourself up to ridiculousness, and stuff like Jackman trying to drink the sap and flowers bursting out of his stomach were hilarious rather than revealing in any manner. To be honest, I don't even find the film visually remarkable outside perhaps a few shots in the space sequence...also, the score is grating and wearisome and Jackman's performance is awful and unintentionally comedic.

Short Cuts - I really love me some Altman. Perhaps one of the things I love most about his ensemble films--well, any of them, but I suppose it stands out more in them??--are these unexpected moments of emotion that almost always ring true to me, such as Moore or Lemmon revealing past infidelities or the fisherman telling his wife about the dead body. And I love the way the camera slowly zooms in on the wife's face and holds it there as the story is being told. Quite effective. And the 3 hours ran by, never thought once about checking my watch. Great stuff.

[Bosco B Thug]

I feel like I should post some brief thoughts on my recent viewings. Those are all pretty spot-on with my opinions. Also, just watched In a Year With 13 Moons as well. Didn't love it as much as you - wasn't engrossed as much as I should've been, and I'd say I prefer Fassbinder's "drier" work Ali: Fear Eats the Soul (only other Fassbinder I've seen) - but it has brilliant premises (like its being a chronicle of this particularly martyr-like day of hers), and those two scenes you mention with the off-screen narration are pretty brilliant as well.

In addition, I am kinda resentful to it for using the Amarcord theme and making me spend lots of brain and internet-surfing energy just to figure that out.

[Bosco B Thug]

Also, I pretty much loved Performance, but I concede it probably shows a lot of what annoy Roeg-indifferent people about him. Lots of experimental cinema moments that just don't do much, and leave you thinking "Was that necessary?" more than "How brilliant." Just too much cluttering pretensions at times.

[Mara]

I've seen their writer-on-writer insults posted a few different places, but now they're giving us filmmaker-on-filmmaker (http://flavorwire.com/200745/the-30-harshest-filmmaker-on-filmmaker-insults-in-history) insults.

My thoughts: some of these people are in no position to be talking trash.

[Spinal]

Not surprisingly, Werner Herzog talks the best smack.

[Watashi]

Cronenberg has the best one.

[Watashi]

4qCbiCxBd2M

This is a lovely short animated film.

Yet some people are confused and didn't realize the little girl was blind until the end. C'mon... it's obvious from the get-go.

[Derek]

Most of those are good, though I'm wondering how Tyler Perry's limp comeback made the list.

[Spinal]

Most of those are good, though I'm wondering how Tyler Perry's limp comeback made the list.

Eastwood's is just as lame.

[Qrazy]

Vincent Gallo needs to get hit by a bus.

[baby doll]

I'In order to praise, criticize, just talk about something, you have to understand that thing, and Tarantino understands violence very well. The violence in Inglourious Basterds is scarily effective. Following the Leone and Kubrick school of thought, he draws out the scenes for as long as possible until there is a brief outburst of fury, meaning that when it happens, it really counts. I'm inclined to say this is his best film; it's the smartest one in a career of smart movies, the funniest comedy and the tensest thriller in recent memory, a very careful build-up to a finale that's as purely cathartic as it is questioning of that catharsis.Yeah, I saw this again recently the other day, and while it's easily Tarantino's best work in terms of pure craft, I can see why some folks would consider it a form of Holocaust denial, as it seeks to replace less palatable images of Jews dying in concentration camps with a feel-good revenge fantasy about Jews brutalizing Nazis. Maybe that's over-simplifying things a bit to call it a "feel-good" revenge fantasy as most of the major characters are either killed or blow themselves up, but I still think it's essentially true.

[baby doll]

Also, Ingmar Bergman makes a better filmmaker than film critic ("Art movies are boring, wah wah wah!").

[Philosophe_rouge]

Have to agree on Breakfast at Tiffany's, though I do like Hepburn. The film may be iconic, but I wouldn't even say her performance is. She's way better/interesting in a lot of her other roles.

[Derek]

Eastwood's is just as lame.

It is on its own, though context makes it a bit more understandable. Spike was complaining that Eastwood's Bird focused too much on Charlie Parker's marriage with his white wife and glossed over his marriage with his black wife. It really was a matter of Lee being ridiculous, at least as quoted through the interviewer, and Eastwood simply being perturbed by at the accusations of mild racism.

[Boner M]

Cronenberg has the best one.
The context (http://projectcinephilia.mubi.com/2011/06/09/re-making-criticism/) for it is even better:


At the time of its release, there was a French press junket for A History of Violence and a critic from a certain magazine was invited to attend. He asked the following question: “Mr. Cronenberg, I admired your film very much. And I wanted to ask you to talk about the obvious influence of M. Night Shyamalan on your work in general and on this film in particular.” There was a brief pause, and then Cronenberg answered, “I HATE that guy! Next question.”

[Fezzik]

I like Kevin Smith's retort to Tim Burton's "I've never read a comic book" crack.

[B-side]

Vincent Gallo needs to get hit by a bus.

No.

[EyesWideOpen]

I like Kevin Smith's retort to Tim Burton's "I've never read a comic book" crack.

I like Tim Burton as a filmmaker far more then Kevin Smith but yeah that comment was spot on.

[Qrazy]

No.

You'd prefer a semi?

[B-side]

You'd prefer a semi?

I'd rather you get hit by a bus than Gallo. He makes great films and great music. You make nothing. Check and mate.

[Spun Lepton]

I'd rather you get hit by a bus than Gallo. He makes great films and great music. You make nothing. Check and mate.

"Great" is certainly a matter of opinion here.

Alex Cox has no room to rip into anybody, considering he made this:

eThZr9If_I8

[Boner M]

Let's all just agree that no one has any right to voice their honest opinions about anything cos everyone sucks and will do and/or has done something shitty.

[Winston*]

Was that Gallo quote from before he worked with Francis Ford Copolla on Tetro?

[Boner M]

Was that Gallo quote from before he worked with Francis Ford Copolla on Tetro?
Yeah, it's from that unpublicised interview conducted in the early 00's that was leaked last year (that's where all of his quotes in that article are taken from).

[SirNewt]

Also, Ingmar Bergman makes a better filmmaker than film critic ("Art movies are boring, wah wah wah!").

Yeah, I was starting to wonder if he actually watches his own movies.

I mean I quite enjoy something like 'Through a Glass Darkly' but it's not exactly trotting along.

[Qrazy]

I'd rather you get hit by a bus than Gallo. He makes great films and great music. You make nothing. Check and mate.

Actually I make a great deal.

Gallo is a complete shithead who's an average actor, made one competent film, one shit film and one film no one will ever see.

Also by your logic you should get hit by a bus as well. You've pretty much dove headlong into the old line of bullshit... you can't criticize anything if you're not better at it!

[B-side]

Actually I make a great deal.

Gallo is a complete shithead who's an average actor, made one competent film, one shit film and one film no one will ever see.

Also by your logic you should get hit by a bus as well. You've pretty much dove headlong into the old line of bullshit... you can't criticize anything if you're not better at it!

I dove into that old line of joking around. You should know me well enough by now.:P

[Qrazy]

I dove into that old line of joking around. You should know me well enough by now.:P

Yeah it's true, my bad. :lol:

:)

[Winston*]

Any recommendations for good Japanese films about the war or that have stuff in them about the war?

[Qrazy]

Any recommendations for good Japanese films about the war or that have stuff in them about the war?

Kobayashi's Human Condition Trilogy
Ichikawa's Fires on the Plain and The Burmese Harp

[Pop Trash]

Any recommendations for good Japanese films about the war or that have stuff in them about the war?

Imamura's Black Rain about the slow and painful nuke fallout after the war is quite powerful.

[Milky Joe]

In addition to the great films, Gallo has a couple excellent albums worth of music under his belt.

Oof, what a pun that was.

[B-side]

In addition to the great films, Gallo has a couple excellent albums worth of music under his belt.

I hinted toward that, yeah. I've been listening to When recently and really enjoying it.

[B-side]

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/Miscellaneous/fifthsealbanner.png

The Fifth Seal, a morality tale about a group of friends living in Hungary under Nazi occupation, marks another terrific film seen during this cinematic journey. Roughly the first 35-40 minutes take place entirely within the confines of a bar where the lights are kept very low and an ear is always listening for an air raid siren. A partially crippled war veteran stumbles in the bar and his persona joins the mix as the guys continue to debate philosophical and moral issues in the face of an oppressive government and war. Fábri's camera swirls around the table and joins in the discussions with jaunty zooms accentuating faces. One of the guys, who'd thus far been obviously unimpressed with their certitude in their moral stances, poses a "be the slave or the master" question to test their convictions, which sends each of them reeling off into the night and back to their respective lives. After a group of local soldiers enter the bar again the next night after having came in the previous night and leaving without trouble, they kidnap the original four men and take them to a military compound. A young soldier is eager to execute them for accusing them of being murderers, an nice touch of irony, but the boss takes a more intellectual approach and seeks to strip them of their self-respect before letting them go free. They're each asked to slap the face of a resistance fighter twice in order to leave, who is strung up like Jesus, arms spread in the middle of a room complete with a spotlight shining directly in the mens' faces, effectively casting judgment upon them as they contemplate the deed. I'd be curious what people made, or will make, of the ending.

[baby doll]

Any recommendations for good Japanese films about the war or that have stuff in them about the war?I remember Grave of the Fireflies being good.

[Raiders]

Any recommendations for good Japanese films about the war or that have stuff in them about the war?

Kurosawa's No Regrets for Our Youth is very specifically about Japan in the 30s and 40s, leading from the Manchurian invasion to WWII, seen from Setsuko Hara's eyes.

[elixir]

Since I have now seen all their feature films, I shall rank the Coens!

Blood Simple - 7
Raising Arizona - 4 (I have tried twice. It's not for me. :|)
Miller's Crossing - 7
Barton Fink - 7
The Hudsucker Proxy - 7
Fargo - 9
The Big Lebowski - 8
O Brother, Where Art Thou? - 7
The Man Who Wasn't There - 8
Intolerable Cruelty - 4
The Ladykillers - 3
No Country for Old Men - 7
Burn After Reading - 6
A Serious Man - 9 (the best)
True Grit - 6

[transmogrifier]

Blood Simple - 84
Raising Arizona - 48
Miller's Crossing - 89
Barton Fink - 66
The Hudsucker Proxy - 72
Fargo - 78
The Big Lebowski - 66
O Brother, Where Art Thou? - 57
The Man Who Wasn't There - 58
Intolerable Cruelty - 49
The Ladykillers - 28
No Country for Old Men - 65
Burn After Reading - 66
A Serious Man - 70
True Grit - 55

[Qrazy]

If this is going to happen en masse as it usually does can it be in another thread please?

[Ezee E]

I was wondering what spawned that, but then I actually read the post.

[Henry Gale]

On a related note, I finally saw all of Raising Arizona for the first time the other night (I know, I know), and despite it being one of the few Coens I hadn't yet seen, it still managed to completely take me by surprise. It's just such a mindblowingly fun movie, which considering the rest of their work, isn't something they tend to set out to achieve without also adding their characteristically (though usually enjoyably) cynical world view in the form of a significant moral drama, whether you may consider that an asset or baggage in each individual case. If there's anything that I could bother to say negatively about it, it would maybe be that its shift to a more reflective, sentimental tone towards the end feels a bit sudden, and maybe not entirely justified considering the way it whimsically and cartoonishly presented its characters before that. But even then, once it got to the final dream, I couldn't help but feel like that last minute change was completely worth it. There's no way I could rank it anywhere near things like Ladykillers and Introlerable Cruelty.

Also, I feel like it's not brought up enough how thematically and structurally similar it is to No Country.

[Watashi]

Yeah, Raising Arizona is their best, but I love them all. Even The Ladykillers.

None of their films would receive less than a 7/10 from me.

[Pop Trash]

If this is going to happen en masse as it usually does can it be in another thread please?

NO!

Blood Simple -7
Raising Arizona -10
Miller's Crossing -7 (needs a rewatch)
Barton Fink -8
The Hudsucker Proxy -7
Fargo -10
The Big Lebowski -7
O Brother, Where Art Thou? -8
The Man Who Wasn't There -n/s
Intolerably Cruelty -n/s
The Ladykillers -n/s
No Country for Old Men -9
Burn After Reading -7
A Serious Man -7
True Grit -8

[Watashi]

http://criterion-production.s3.amazonaws.com/release_images/3566/216_BD_box_348x490.jpg

http://criterion-production.s3.amazonaws.com/release_images/3551/587_BD_box_348x490.jpg

http://criterion-production.s3.amazonaws.com/release_images/3557/591_BD_box_348x490.jpg

I want them all.

[MadMan]

I've only seen 12 Angry Men (sad, I know-I'll get to the other two eventually, honestly!) but those covers are amazing.

Thanks to Icine, I've grown tired of rating the Coens Brothers movies. Especially since I still have much to view from them anyways.

[Ezee E]

Sucks for the 12th man that gets a Criterion sticker covering his face.

[MadMan]

Guess they didn't think he was too important.

[Yxklyx]

...
I want them all.

I'm very lukewarm on blu-rays now. They don't seem to have a good lifespan - any little smudge can ruin them. I rented Bleak House on blu-ray from Netflix - towards the end of the first disk it would get stuck. I looked at the disk for a very long time and could see nothing at all wrong with it. Went to the local store and rented the DVDs and watched the rest of the series on that format and the experience wasn't any less. Sure, when you compare the two side by side, blu-ray looks better but I find the movie watching experience nearly the same.

[MadMan]

I'll consider getting Blu Ray when the players finally go down a lot in price. The Blu Ray DVDs are reasonable enough, but the players are still too goddamn expensive.

[Boner M]

Criterion have been very yawn lately.

[B-side]

Criterion have been very yawn lately.

Tell me about it. We really needed another release of 12 Angry Men, huh?

[Watashi]

Tell me about it. We really needed another release of 12 Angry Men, huh?
Another? What the hell are you talking about?

[B-side]

Another? What the hell are you talking about?

There are already two R1 DVDs for it with great prints. It's Hollywood canon, it would've gotten a Blu-ray release or two by one of the major companies. I'd prefer Criterion focus on releasing films that actually need R1 releases, and films that wouldn't otherwise be top priority for release on Blu.

[Rowland]

Southern Comfort (Hill, 1981) ***½I found the first half or so of this pretty grating, but it picks up considerably once the focus shifts from the badly written assholes walking circles in a thicket to the brilliantly orchestrated set pieces of the second half.

[transmogrifier]

I found the first half or so of this pretty grating, but it picks up considerably once the focus shifts from the badly written assholes walking circles in a thicket to the brilliantly orchestrated set pieces of the second half.

The ending sequence is awesome. But I like the first half as well.

[Boner M]

The first half is functional; only Keith Carradine emerges as a distinctive character and that's probably just from the presence he carries over from the Alan Rudolph films he's been in. The second half is murky, visceral, relentless grind in the best way possible, and the climax (particularly the cross-cutting emphasising alternately the violence and warmth of a culture existing in close proximity) is indeed awesome.

Cajun man's "KIIILLLL HIMMM" during the Powers Boothe/Fred Ward knife-fight is one of the most blood-curdling movie screams ever.

[Winston*]

Any recommendations for good Japanese films about the war or that have stuff in them about the war?

How about these?

Story of a Prostitute
Children of Hiroshima
Insect Woman

[B-side]

How about these?

Story of a Prostitute

This one's not bad.

[Boner M]

Insect Woman
I'll vouch for this, as well as Imamura's Pigs and Battleships.

[Raiders]

The first half is functional; only Keith Carradine emerges as a distinctive character and that's probably just from the presence he carries over from the Alan Rudolph films he's been in. The second half is murky, visceral, relentless grind in the best way possible, and the climax (particularly the cross-cutting emphasising alternately the violence and warmth of a culture existing in close proximity) is indeed awesome.

Cajun man's "KIIILLLL HIMMM" during the Powers Boothe/Fred Ward knife-fight is one of the most blood-curdling movie screams ever.

Still my favorite of Hill's films (with The Driver and The Long Riders close behind). But then again I really need to see Streets of Fire and Crossroads.

I'm stoked that he has finally starting shooting a new film, despite starring Stallone and sounding very blah.

[Boner M]

But then again I really need to see Streets of Fire
Oh man, ya gotta. Just a ton of fun; I know Derek things really highly of it too.

The Long Riders is next on my itinerary.

[Qrazy]

How about these?

Story of a Prostitute
Children of Hiroshima
Insect Woman

First and last are quite good. Second is adequate.

Gate of Flesh is Suzuki's best, and that's about the post-World War II Japan.

[Qrazy]

The Long Riders is next on my itinerary.

It's good.

[MadMan]

I've only seen some of The Long Riders. Southern Comfort is a priority, as is The Driver. I rather liked and enjoyed Streets of Fire-I'm sure Raiders will dig it a good deal.

[SirNewt]

If the Hallmark of a good documentary is the ability to manipulate you emotionally then "Bangkok Girl" is a genre masterpiece. If it's to illuminate a subject you may be unfamiliar with in an exciting way, then it's kinda crappy.

[B-side]

Southern Comfort (Hill, 1981) ***½

Grabbed this after you guys praised it and I enjoyed The Driver. By the looks of this download, I may not get to it for a few days, though.

[SirNewt]

The Killing

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_KMYbdNu8FOw/S8OeTE_m3gI/AAAAAAAABa8/oTYrrkECzkE/s1600/PDVD_001.BMP

If during the last five minutes of Kubrick's 'The Killing' you're still wondering what is going to happen, you probably just need to watch more film noir. And that sentiment underscores the entire film. Everything is characteristically film noir and not necessarily Kubrick. Maybe I'm showing a lack of perspective when I come down on this film for reveling in tried and true tropes. I go back and forth between thinking, that this is a well constructed genre piece, and thinking, "how many marginalized gangsters can I see get gunned down or arrested simply because of fate or worse because crime doesn't pay." The ending, in particular, seems lazy. Other directors have gotten away with worse. But this is Stanley Kubrick. He ought to have known better! Perhaps, other directors would've received a pass from me and that is unfair.

When we discuss film. we often associate homage with attentiveness, passion, and tradition. We also often associate imitation with laziness, unawareness, and cynicism. And then we draw a line between the two. 'The Killing' lands pretty squarely on that line. Which makes it difficult to take apart.

When I look at the streak of films Kubrick will begin after this, it becomes difficult for me to accuse him of those traits we often attach to imitation. Overall, 'The Killing' is a good film noir, maybe even a great one. The film's themes are about at the end of their Hollywood lifespan and they're looking threadbare.

There are still a handful of reasons to watch 'The Killing'. It has a charismatic lead, who's character I might've liked had I got know him a little better. The film has a fantastic plot curve, where about half the film's cast die in one scene. And, it features a very well constructed heist, which I enjoyed, even though films like 'Rififi' have already overindulged my planning fetish. But, if you're expecting that later Kubrick, meta-level, you might be disappointed.

[soitgoes...]

I am going to make it a point to go to the theaters in every country I visit. I saw Green Lantern, and the cultural aspect actually made the overall experience enjoyable.

[Yxklyx]

John Schlesinger's Sunday Bloody Sunday is impeccably crafted, one of his best. The subject matter though (love triangle with Peter Finch and Glenda Jackson in love with the same man) didn't grab me much. Still, this is a must see film for most people in this forum. Excellent performances from Finch and Jackson - gotta re-watch Network now.

Note: the title is pretty misleading for Americans - there's no blood or violence at all.

[BuffaloWilder]

So, this is interesting.

I recently came across a site that has the entire pre-production development of Super Mario Bros. up for viewing, from the initial pitch to the ungodly number of screenplay drafts to the liner notes, and revisions. And, I've got to say - this actually could've been a really, really good film, and I can see now why the film ended up being such a narrative mess, in its finished incarnation.

Each of the separate drafts are so entirely divergent from one another in terms of style and influence - running the gamut from The Princess Bride-esque fantasy that does actually come a lot from the games to something very unabashedly adult and cynical, with Die Hard and Mad Max as its predecessors (which includes one of my favorite one liners in a while, but I'll get to that in a minute). Alone, these are all actually really competent screenplays and adaptations of a relatively plotless game - the problem is, this film had about twenty-nine thousand writers, and rather than having each successive draft gradually develop and build up some kind of concrete narrative, they've all done their own thing.

In an attempt to hastily unify them, and you can see this in the late-term revisions, the light tone is pulled from one and stitched together with the set-pieces of another. Dialogue is reduced in complexity, and - it seems that the writers were all told to downplay the evolution of the characters as it took up screen-time in what they saw as mainly a toyetic film. In each draft of the screenplay, everything is pretty concretely drawn out - Mario is a cynic who who is ashamed of his family business and the fact that he's pulling Luigi into it as well and ruining whatever prospects his life might have in the future. Luigi is a New Age youth raised in Brooklyn with Brooklyn values. Even Koopa gets paid a lot of attention, with some pretty pointed and creepy sequences.

All this stuff was actually important to the work, early in the production, as strange as that sounds - being a Mario film. Alas, what could have been.


One of my favorite sequences comes as the end of the second draft, from early 1992. It's the climactic face-off between Mario and Koopa - this time, taking place on the Brooklyn Bridge. This scene is a lot more interesting than the finished draft, with Koopa fully reptile and climbing all over the bridge structures, breathing fire at Mario and choking him with his tongue. So, it all comes to a head, and Koopa says something like, "what can you do? You're just a plumber."

And, Mario's like ". . .you're goddamn right, you slimy piece of shit." AND THEN HE SHOOTS HIM IN THE FACE WITH HIS BOOT.

It's a great scene, shame we'll never see it.

[Winston*]

That doesn't sound like a very good scene. Mario shouldn't be saying "shit".

[Sven]

Whatever. Super Mario Bros. is an awesome movie as it is.

[BuffaloWilder]

That doesn't sound like a very good scene. Mario shouldn't be saying "shit".

I can dig it.

There's a note by one of the directors on a later draft that just says, "if there's only one swear word in the whole movie, it must be this one." I can agree with that.

[Spinal]

Just got done watching 2001 with the whole family. My son, who is 9, was watching it for the first time. To my surprise, he had a very large emotional reaction to Hal's death.

I don't think I've ever seen him that shaken up by a movie before. He's still kind of teary. I think he's having some complicated emotions around processing the scene's central dilemma. I'm curious to discuss it more with him, but I'm not sure he's fully ready to talk about it yet.

Anyway, the film is still pretty much the most brilliant thing ever. I know we get tired of hearing how great it is, but it really is a singular, soul-stirring experience.

[Spinal]

I'm not sure I see the appeal in a cynical, swearing Mario.

[Sven]

Anyway, the film is still pretty much the most brilliant thing ever. I know we get tired of hearing how great it is, but it really is a singular, soul-stirring experience.

I was touched by the story about your son. I was similarly shaken by that sequence, as I'm sure many who were able to lose themselves in the film's deliberations on the first viewing were. And it's been a while since I've heard it mentioned, actually, so thanks for stoking excellent memories.

[Spinal]

I was touched by the story about your son. I was similarly shaken by that sequence, as I'm sure many who were able to lose themselves in the film's deliberations on the first viewing were. And it's been a while since I've heard it mentioned, actually, so thanks for stoking excellent memories.

I was really just hoping he wouldn't get bored. But his response to it far surpassed my expectations. It made me appreciate both him and the film all the more.

[Sven]

I was really just hoping he wouldn't get bored. But his response to it far surpassed my expectations. It made me appreciate both him and the film all the more.

Very cool. I always get paranoid that K will be bored by the movies I make her watch, so much that it can be distracting. Though she just confirmed to me with an across-the-room nod that she liked the movie Sisters, so I guess that fear is a bit miscalculated.

[Watashi]

I can't imagine a 9-year old staying awake during 2001.

[Sven]

I can't imagine a 9-year old staying awake during 2001.

That's just because you can't imagine a 9-year old not being raised on Ninja Turtles and Dinosaucers.

[Watashi]

That's just because you can't imagine a 9-year old not being raised on Ninja Turtles and Dinosaucers.
That's a childhood I never want to imagine.

[SirNewt]

I'm curios Sven and Spinal. Do you guys shield your respective kids from the more manic, ADD inducing kid culture out there. Do you think it has a big impact on child behavior?

[Spinal]

I'm curios Sven and Spinal. Do you guys shield your respective kids from the more manic, ADD inducing kid culture out there. Do you think it has a big impact on child behavior?

Sven isn't a parent.

And I don't really do a whole lot of shielding. I just try to make sure he gets variety in his activities. Reading, going outside, etc. I'll steer him towards the stuff I think is good, but I don't think I've ever told him he couldn't watch something because it was 'manic'.

I mean, we also watch Monty Python together. That's kind of manic and catering to the ADD mentality, isn't it?

If he has the patience for something like 2001, my best guess is that it is because I read him lots and lots of books at bedtime.

[SirNewt]

Sven isn't a parent.

And I don't really do a whole lot of shielding. I just try to make sure he gets variety in his activities. Reading, going outside, etc. I'll steer him towards the stuff I think is good, but I don't think I've ever told him he couldn't watch something because it was 'manic'.

I mean, we also watch Monty Python together. That's kind of manic and catering to the ADD mentality, isn't it?

If he has the patience for something like 2001, my best guess is that it is because I read him lots and lots of books at bedtime.

Thanks, my girlfriend is due in a few weeks (her son not mine) and this is something I'm really curious about. When he's older I want to encourage him to be curious about a wide variety of things and not just whatever fad is going on at school.

A good friend of mine had kids. One month they were into Spider Man and had to have everything Spider Man. The next it was Star Wars. It kinda drove me nuts. But I'm not sure what is realistic to expect. Or even how much I should give in and let the kid do what he wants.

[B-side]

I don't really recommend people specific films, so I'll just throw it out there that I think a few folks here would really enjoy Waiting for Happiness, more specifically folks like Boner or soitgoes -- the types who enjoy that kind of observational French/Asian quotidian stuff. Of course, neither the film nor the director are Asian or French. The director and the film are Mauritanian, and the director was trained in Russia, but I doubt you'd know that from watching it. Anywho, it's a beautiful film. Quietly tragic. But not without a very dry sense of humor. Plus, it's pretty:

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/vlcsnap-2011-08-19-04h42m41s6_450x270.jpg
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/vlcsnap-2011-08-19-05h16m51s25_450x270.jpg
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/vlcsnap-2011-08-19-05h40m34s158_450x270.jpg
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/vlcsnap-2011-08-19-05h46m29s139_450x270.jpg

[Irish]

I can't imagine a 9-year old staying awake during 2001.

It's easy enough-- just tie him to a chair and pry his eyeballs open, Clockwork Orange style.

[Grouchy]

A good friend of mine had kids. One month they were into Spider Man and had to have everything Spider Man. The next it was Star Wars. It kinda drove me nuts. But I'm not sure what is realistic to expect. Or even how much I should give in and let the kid do what he wants.
Bah, I was the same as a kid. I probably had longer periods of excitement about stuff, say about six months to a year, but I was pretty similar. First it was dinosaurs, then space, then detective stories. Every single discovery replaced the previous one. I think that's normal.

I think about the best thing you can do with a kid is get them to read a lot without forcing them to. Waking up their interest on things, but not cutting them off anything - fads are fads. My mother used to try to get me out of reading comics for a long time, even forbidding me to read the ones I already had. That didn't work out too good.

[Robby P]

I haven't seen Paradise Lost but in case you haven't heard the three subjects of the documentary are on the verge of being exonerated 18 years later. Sounds like HBO is going to air the third part of the documentary in November.

[Ivan Drago]

I haven't seen Paradise Lost but in case you haven't heard the three subjects of the documentary are on the verge of being exonerated 18 years later. Sounds like HBO is going to air the third part of the documentary in November.

The West Memphis Three are free? FUCK YEAH!

[Stay Puft]

I hope Brightside is holding up today... Raul Ruiz has passed away. He was working on a couple new films, too.

[Boner M]

Brightened; Ive actually been meaning to give either WfH or Bamako a go; I've always been afraid African cinema would be too worthy/dull so I admittedly never bothered w/ either. Your direct reco has changed that. :)

[Boner M]

^abysmal post; still getting used to forum posting on my phone

[Derek]

^abysmal post; still getting used to forum posting on my phone

It's okay. It brightened my day a little.

[soitgoes...]

Black Test Car (Matsumoto, 1962) ***½
I haven't seen this one yet, but I'm a huge fan of Matsumoto, so this is great to see.

[Dukefrukem]

"Where's Wall-E"

http://blastr.com/walle.jpg

[Kurosawa Fan]

That was really easy. I hope it was supposed to be really easy, and was just an excuse to draw all those robots together.

[Ezee E]

That was really easy. I hope it was supposed to be really easy, and was just an excuse to draw all those robots together.
Fairly sure that's the case. I liked it.

[Dukefrukem]

He's so sad. :(

[Ezee E]

Speaking of Waldo. Someone in Boulder has been doing "Banksy" artwork of Waldo in random places all over Boulder. Some businesses liked it enough that they were going to keep it up, but then the city had them take it down. Now citizens are complaining.

[Mara]

That was really easy. I hope it was supposed to be really easy, and was just an excuse to draw all those robots together.

It took me a few minutes because I kept getting distracted by the "Bad Robot" robot.

Lots of fun references, some of them quite unusual.

[Spinal]

I hope it was supposed to be really easy

No, it's an IQ test and you are a super genius.

[B-side]

I hope Brightside is holding up today... Raul Ruiz has passed away. He was working on a couple new films, too.

It definitely killed whatever mood I had going. We lost one of the greats.

[B-side]

Brightened; Ive actually been meaning to give either WfH or Bamako a go; I've always been afraid African cinema would be too worthy/dull so I admittedly never bothered w/ either. Your direct reco has changed that. :)

Cool. I hope you enjoy it.

[Sycophant]

To offer another suggestion to Winston* on films about Japan during the war, Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence is definitely worth watching. It's not actually set in Japan proper, but is set in a Japanese-run POW camp.

Just finished watching Kobayashi's The Human Condition trilogy yesterday. Essential viewing, I'd say.

[B-side]

Just finished watching Kobayashi's The Human Condition trilogy yesterday. Essential viewing, I'd say.

The length of that has kept me away, but I do love Kobayashi.

[Sycophant]

The length of that has kept me away, but I do love Kobayashi.

The length was indeed intimidating. I actually watched the three films over the course of about 10 weeks. Each film actually contains two parts, so you could pretty easily justify splitting it up further. If you like Kobayashi, you should definitely get to it at some point.

[B-side]

The length was indeed intimidating. I actually watched the three films over the course of about 10 weeks. Each film actually contains two parts, so you could pretty easily justify splitting it up further. If you like Kobayashi, you should definitely get to it at some point.

I have the first film in the trilogy on my computer. Didn't know it was in two parts. Definitely makes things a bit easier for me considering I watch everything on my computer.

[Boner M]

Dear Sub-Nolans (http://dearsubnolans.tumblr.com/)

[B-side]

Dear Sub-Nolans (http://dearsubnolans.tumblr.com/)

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llj5v3f8CD1qkr1woo1_500 .jpg

I chuckled.

[Spinal]

I don't use this often, but ... :rolleyes:

[Watashi]

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lls6qorcrc1qkr1woo1_500 .jpg

This one is my favorite.

[Boner M]

Win:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_llg0z1gc2k1qkr1woo1_128 0.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHW SU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1313895685&Signature=So0ed6%2F3XIt6hSfbuV bi2NWtaAw%3D

[Boner M]

I don't use this often, but ... :rolleyes:
New tumblr idea: 'Spinal angrily shakes his walking stick at internet memes"

[B-side]

A few stills from Ruiz's last completed film, La noche de enfrentes:

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/Miscellaneous/lne-32.jpg
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/Miscellaneous/lne-27.jpg
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/Miscellaneous/lne-20.jpg
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/Miscellaneous/lne-14.jpg
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/Miscellaneous/lne-12.jpg

[Irish]

Old Siskel & Ebert about performances Oscar ignored. This was very good.

http://t.co/XqHB8EY

[B-side]

Ebert's kinda lame, yo.

[soitgoes...]

I have the first film in the trilogy on my computer. Didn't know it was in two parts. Definitely makes things a bit easier for me considering I watch everything on my computer.

There's no reason for you not to see it. Length has never been an issue for you before.

[Irish]

Ebert's kinda lame, yo.

You're right. He should use more colorful world flags in his reviews.

[B-side]

Length has never been an issue for you before.

Shows how much you know.:cry:


You're right. He should use more colorful world flags in his reviews.

Ouch.

[baby doll]

The New York Film Festival's blurb on Abel Ferrara's new movie, 4:44 Last Day on Earth:


How would we spend our final hours on Earth? And what does how we choose to die say about how we have chosen to live? In the hands of the inimitable Abel Ferrara (Go Go Tales, NYFF ’07), this thought experiment takes on a visceral immediacy. With the planet on the verge of extinction, a New York couple (Willem Dafoe and Shanyn Leigh) cycle through moments of anxiety, ecstasy, and torpor. As they sink into the havens of sex and art, and Skype last goodbyes in a Lower East Side apartment filled with screens bearing tidings of doom and salvation, the film becomes one of Ferrara’s most potent and intimate expressions of spiritual crisis. An apocalyptic trance film, 4:44 is also a mournful valentine to Ferrara’s beloved New York: the director’s first fiction feature to be filmed entirely in the city in over a decade, and coming 10 years after the September 11 attacks, a haunting vision of doom in the lower Manhattan skyline.

[B-side]

Jesus. I can't wait for that movie. First straight up fiction film he's made in 4 years, and it sounds amazing from that blurb.

[baby doll]

Jesus. I can't wait for that movie. First straight up fiction film he's made in 4 years, and it sounds amazing from that blurb.I'm pumped too, but it does seem too good to be true--the sort of project that sounds awesome on paper but doesn't really pan out.

[B-side]

I'm pumped too, but it does seem too good to be true--the sort of project that sounds awesome on paper but doesn't really pan out.

I don't know. This kind of thing seems right up Ferrara's alley. If anyone can pull this off, it's him.

[baby doll]

I don't know. This kind of thing seems right up Ferrara's alley. If anyone can pull this off, it's him.In any case, I hope that he and Lars von Trier come to some arrangement where they distribute this film and Melancholia as a Grindhouse-style double bill.

[Mysterious Dude]

So I saw The Help (because, unlike Brightside, I have a family that occasionally drags me to bad movies). The main character seemed like a 21st century girl who was somehow transported back to 1963. She was so different and more modern than any other character, and not just in racial issues; she also wants to have her own career and has little interest in getting married (which obsesses all the other women). There is a subplot about a boyfriend who she initially hates but eventually sorta likes. They should have just cut that part. It might have reduced the runtime down to a mere 136 minutes.

The movie also devotes an awful lot of time to a poop joke.

[Boner M]

I know Ferrara has been planning a Pasolini biopic for a while: maybe LDoE is a covert one? Just a theory based on the title/synopsis.

[Ezee E]

Wow... The Help is going to be #1 this weekend.

[Irish]

Wow... The Help is going to be #1 this weekend.

It has no competition and the book was enormously popular.

[Pop Trash]

Wow... The Help is going to be #1 this weekend.

I'm pretty happy Conan bombed. Looked awful. What's the budget for that? 100 mil?

[Pop Trash]

Dear Sub-Nolans (http://dearsubnolans.tumblr.com/)

This would be funnier if Nolan had a James Cameron-like reputation as an egomaniac. He strikes me as pretty down to earth.

[Yxklyx]

The length of that has kept me away, but I do love Kobayashi.

There's really no need to watch these one after the other within a short period of time. They were originally released within the span of 2 years and they each stand well alone - haven't gotten around to the last one yet.

[B-side]

BTW, it's nice to see Syco back. Hope he sticks around for a while. Any word on Clipper Ship Captain/MacGuffin?

[elixir]

Just throwing this out there to see if anyone might be able to help me find the name of this film...

It's a German black-and-white film...I want to say it's from the 60s or 70s but I can't be sure...it's directed by a female who also stars in it, and she plays a single mother and I think a photographer perhaps...it's considered a feminist film I believe, I remember a scene in which she is sitting in bed with a lover and in internal monologue she states that she doesn't really care if they stay a couple...um yeah. I can't remember the name of it and it's driving me crazy.

EDIT: I found the film. I guess it just took some perseverance and intense googling to get the job done. (It's this (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077150/) if anyone cares.)

[B-side]

Just throwing this out there to see if anyone might be able to help me find the name of this film...

It's a German black-and-white film...I want to say it's from the 60s or 70s but I can't be sure...it's directed by a female who also stars in it, and she plays a single mother and I think a photographer perhaps...it's considered a feminist film I believe, I remember a scene in which she is sitting in bed with a lover and in internal monologue she states that she doesn't really care if they stay a couple...um yeah. I can't remember the name of it and it's driving me crazy.

Can't help you there, but I can give this a thumbs up:


The Hypothesis of the Stolen Painting (Raoul Ruiz, 1979) 8

[B-side]

A.O. Scott interview with Ruiz 3 weeks before he died. (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/magazine/raoul-ruiz-a-mild-mannered-maniac.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all)

[Irish]

Holy shit Conan & Fright Night both bombed hard. Didn't expect that.

[B-side]

Ruiz's wonderful Three Crowns of the Sailor can currently be watched online for free (http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/raul-ruizs-three-crowns-of-a-sailor-1983).

[SirNewt]

Bah, I was the same as a kid. I probably had longer periods of excitement about stuff, say about six months to a year, but I was pretty similar. First it was dinosaurs, then space, then detective stories. Every single discovery replaced the previous one. I think that's normal.

I think about the best thing you can do with a kid is get them to read a lot without forcing them to. Waking up their interest on things, but not cutting them off anything - fads are fads. My mother used to try to get me out of reading comics for a long time, even forbidding me to read the ones I already had. That didn't work out too good.

Yeah, I figured. It's not the obsessions or their shifting nature that bothered me. It was the consumer nature of the kids' obsession. They had to see the movie, get all the toys, get the happy meals, etc.

I think your right though. Encouraging him to be curious is really important. I don't want to be a one of the jerk parents that is always down on what their kid is into because they don't like it.

[Henry Gale]

Holy shit Conan & Fright Night both bombed hard. Didn't expect that.

As much as they tried to market them heavily, though seemingly all at the last minute, I saw it as a good possibility. No matter how they may have looked, they're two late-August releases that are R-rated remakes of movies that weren't exactly blockbusters the first time around (and in 3D, possibly unavoidably to some audiences that might be sick of it). It's probably a bigger loss to Conan which apparently cost $90 million. Fright Night cost a third of that so it'll probably make its money back first, especially since horror movies apparently tend to do better over time on home video.

But I do want to see Fright Night, so I should probably hurry up with that before it disappears.

[MadMan]

Fright Night actually looks good/solid. Conan on the other hand looks terrible. I'd rather stick with the original.

[B-side]

So, like, China Girl was really good. Anyone seen it?

[megladon8]

A quick weird question about Ridley Scott's Hannibal.

Why is Verger (Gary Oldman's character) permanently wheelchair-bound?

His face was cut off. That shouldn't render you paralyzed and incapable of taking care of yourself.

[Scar]

A quick weird question about Ridley Scott's Hannibal.

Why is Verger (Gary Oldman's character) permanently wheelchair-bound?

His face was cut off. That shouldn't render you paralyzed and incapable of taking care of yourself.

In the book, Hannibal breaks Verger's neck before disfiguring him. I'm surprised they omitted that in the movie.

[Mara]

Of Gods and Men is a gut-punch. Quiet, measured, and thoughtful, it is nevertheless unflinching in its portrayal of violence and peril. It takes what should be a simple equation: go and live, or stay and die; and shows the viewer that to these men, this is a question of endless moral complexity.

For the most part, the film is one of great silence. There is no background music. The monks pray, and eat, and garden, and harvest honey. They speak only to communicate with each other and with God. They sing, without accompaniment, holy music. The villagers sing holy music as well, during their ceremonies. The only scene with secular music is the emotional apex of the film, when "Swan Lake" plays on an old cassette player while the monks eat dinner. And what music! It is passionate, surging, emotionally fraught, and without words it brings these men to tears, and we are, for the first time, invasively thrust upon them, brought so close to their faces that it is almost unbearably intimate.

Whether the monks were morally correct in their decision is a subject for much thought and debate. Still, it is shown as being an intensely personal decision, and is not ours (as viewers) to make for them.

I can't remember the last time I was this absorbed in a film. It really is extraordinary.