28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Pop Trash]

The best year for film in the time you've been alive?

I'll play...

...and say 1997.

Top five of that year for me:
1. The Sweet Hereafter
2. The Ice Storm
3. Boogie Nights
4. Titanic (yup that's right)
5. Chasing Amy

1984 was the best for when I was a little kid:
1. The Neverending Story
2. Revenge of the Nerds
3. Ghostbusters
4. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
5. A Nightmare on Elm Street

[The Mike]

For me it's gotta be 1996, the year I fell further in love with movies than ever, thanks to a slew of blockbusters (The Rock, Mission: Impossible, Independence Day, Executive Decision, Eraser, Broken Arrow, The Long Kiss Goodnight, Dragonheart, Ransom); my introduction to independent cinema (Fargo, Sling Blade, Swingers, Lone Star, Bottle Rocket, Flirting with Disaster), a few good horrors (Scream, From Dusk Till Dawn, The Frighteners), and a bunch of other movies like Jerry Maguire, Mars Attacks!, Happy Gilmore, A Time to Kill, Primal Fear, The Fan, The Phantom, and more.

Oh, and Carpenter released Escape from L.A. that summer too.

Basically any time I see a movie from that year I get all reminiscy. And I'll buy a decent (or sometimes not) movie from that year just because I remember seeing previews for it or it playing in the theater next to one of those other movies.

[Grouchy]

I saw and enjoyed Hairspray. I think in all other John Waters movies I've seen (Pink Flamingos, Cecil B. Demented, A Dirty Shame) I could appreciate the camp factor, but I couldn't bring myself to think they were specially well made. Even worse, Cecil and Shame are pretty much one-joke efforts without any replay value. Instead, Hairspray is a much more "professional" satire on Americana, with set and costume designs worthy of Tim Burton. True, it's also tamer in a way, as the scatological factor is turned down, but the amazing cast (Jerry Stiller's crazy antics are awesome) makes it colorful and unusual enough not to lose its edgy credit. It's, at the very least, the best Waters from those I've seen. I'm curious as to how the musical version turned out, although it's hard to imagine Travolta could be more watchable than Divine.

I also saw an amazing film. Campy, cheesy, corny, but filled with movie magic - Enemy Mine. The whole fable of miscommunication and friendship between Dennis Quaid and Jerry the Crabface is a helluva tear-jerker. The script is full of contrivances, true - a more confident movie wouldn't have the alien learning the human language so early -, but it's also very visceral and watchable and it got me to weep up a little. Quaid and Gosset Jr. both give awesome performances. There's actually very little to explain about why this worked for me. It's a Hollywood sci-fi drama done right. It chooses easy paths, and it all ends in a satisfactory action scene instead of leavng any upbringing vs. empathy debate open, but I can't be so hard on a movie this heartfelt and exciting. There are very little aliens in movie history as tender as Jerry.

[soitgoes...]

1988
Landscape in the Mist (Theo Angelopoulos)
Grave of the Fireflies (Isao Takahata)
Cinema Paradiso (Guiseppe Tornatore)
Story of Women (Claude Chabrol)
The Last Temptation of Christ (Martin Scorsese)
A Short Film About Killing (Krzysztof Kieslowski)
The Vanishing (George Sluizer)
A Short Film About Love (Krzysztof Kieslowski)

or

2000
Dancer in the Dark (Lars von Trier)
The Heart of the World (Guy Maddin)
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (Ang Lee)
Wonder Boys (Curtis Hanson)
Yi Yi (Edward Yang)
Happy Times (Zhang Yimou)
You Can Count on Me (Kenneth Lonergan)
Almost Famous (Cameron Crowe)
Best in Show (Christopher Guest)
The Gleaners and I (Agnès Varda)
Memento (Christopher Nolan)
Amores Perros (Alejandro González Iñárritu)

More great films in 2000, but I've seen almost twice as many movies than in 1988.

[The Mike]

I also saw an amazing film. Campy, cheesy, corny, but filled with movie magic - Enemy Mine. The whole fable of miscommunication and friendship between Dennis Quaid and Jerry the Crabface is a helluva tear-jerker. The script is full of contrivances, true - a more confident movie wouldn't have the alien learning the human language so early -, but it's also very visceral and watchable and it got me to weep up a little. Quaid and Gosset Jr. both give awesome performances. There's actually very little to explain about why this worked for me. It's a Hollywood sci-fi drama done right. It chooses easy paths, and it all ends in a satisfactory action scene instead of leavng any upbringing vs. empathy debate open, but I can't be so hard on a movie this heartfelt and exciting. There are very little aliens in movie history as tender as Jerry.

I've always wanted to see this, but Wolfgang Petersen scares me off.

[Rowland]

it's hard to imagine Travolta could be more watchable than Divine.His is the worst performance, very awkward and out of sync tonally with the rest of the cast.

[Grouchy]

I've always wanted to see this, but Wolfgang Petersen scares me off.
I'd say this is his best from those I've seen - that is, Troy (awful) and The Neverending story (fucking classic).

The best years for cinema in my lifetime?

1999
Eyes Wide Shut
Fight Club
Magnolia
The Insider
Audition
Dying of Laughter
The Straight Story
South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut
Ghost Dog: Way of the Samurai
Buena Vista Social Club
Sweet and Lowdown
Toy Story 2
Bringing Out the Dead
eXistenZ
The Matrix
Payback

2004
The Incredibles
Dead Man's Shoes
3-IRON
Downfall
Kung Fu Hustle
Shaun of the Dead
Spiderman 2
2046
Hellboy
Napoleon Dynamite
The Bourne Supremacy
The Life Aquatic
The Holy Girl

[Bosco B Thug]

Images - Plot is kinda whatever and a good example of the pitfalls of films with schizophrenic subjects, but goddamn if Altman doesn't direct the shit out of it. Worked best when I just tuned out emotionally, and pretended it was a non-narrative film dedication to secluded country homes in autumn - then it really got under my skin. It's flawed and unsatisfying for sure, but ever since I saw it I can't seem to get it out of my head it's so well-done. I downloaded the score for it, too, and it has given me an all new appreciation for John Williams.


You knew it was coming:

Cat People 65
The Ghost Ship 67
The Seventh Victim 72
The Leopard Man 75
I Walked With a Zombie 78
The Body Snatcher 62
The Curse of the Cat People 77 Fo sho.

Cat People - 9
The Ghost Ship - 6.5
The Seventh Victim - 9
The Leopard Man - 8.5
I Walked With a Zombie - 9
The Body Snatcher - 6.5
The Curse of the Cat People - 8.5
Bedlam - 6.5
Isle of the Dead - 7


Brewster McCloud was unspeakably special. These obscure Altman flicks are too much non-formula, avant-garde rhetorical, rowdy and experimental sexy awesomeness to handle.

[origami_mustache]

The best year for film in the time you've been alive?


2000:

Eureka
In the Mood For Love
Yi Yi
George Washington
Werckmeister Harmonies
The Heart of the World
O Brother, Where Art Thou?
Code Unknown
Requiem For a Dream
Amores perros

maybe 2007 at #2

[MadMan]

1994 FTW. Followed by 1998, 1999 and 2004. Oh and 1989 was awesome, too.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Catching up, Lewton ratings:

Cat People - 9
The Seventh Victim - 8
I Walked With a Zombie - 8
The Body Snatcher - 9
The Curse of the Cat People - 8.5
Bedlam - 7.5
Isle of the Dead - 8.5

Best year for film since I was born... 2007 I guess

No Country for Old Men
Zodiac
There Will Be Blood
Black Book
The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford
28 Weeks Later
I'm Not There
Le Scaphandre et le papillon
Ratatouille
Atonement
The Mist
Gone Baby Gone

[NickGlass]

I saw and enjoyed Hairspray. I think in all other John Waters movies I've seen (Pink Flamingos, Cecil B. Demented, A Dirty Shame) I could appreciate the camp factor, but I couldn't bring myself to think they were specially well made. Even worse, Cecil and Shame are pretty much one-joke efforts without any replay value. Instead, Hairspray is a much more "professional" satire on Americana, with set and costume designs worthy of Tim Burton. True, it's also tamer in a way, as the scatological factor is turned down, but the amazing cast (Jerry Stiller's crazy antics are awesome) makes it colorful and unusual enough not to lose its edgy credit. It's, at the very least, the best Waters from those I've seen. I'm curious as to how the musical version turned out, although it's hard to imagine Travolta could be more watchable than Divine.

Next up: Pecker.

[soitgoes...]

5 Centimeters per Second was fantastic. A very sentimental feel, but I was able to relate to each of the main characters. On top of all that Shinkai gives us some of the most beautiful animation I've seen. The ending though, I'm not too sure a musical montage is what was needed.

[The Mike]

I saw and loved John Sayles' The Brother From Another Planet this weekend. A unique, interesting, humane sci-fi flick with a great respect for its setting and some goofy 80's-ness.

I've also seen Lone Star from him. What else should I check out?

[Winston*]

Limbo, but you're pretty safe with just about any Sayles.

[Raiders]

I'll second Limbo, though I think his best film might be Men With Guns.

[soitgoes...]

I'll second Limbo, though I think his best film might be Men With Guns.
This is absolutely correct.

[Sven]

His best film is City of Hope, but it is absent from DVD. Men with Guns, Limbo, Honeydripper, and The Secret of Roan Inish are my favorites.

[megladon8]

Matewan is great.

[Sven]

Matewan is great.

That one, too. Thought I'd listed it.

[Winston*]

His best film is City of Hope, but it is absent from DVD. Men with Guns, Limbo, Honeydripper, and The Secret of Roan Inish are my favorites.

Neato. Don't remember seeing you write anything about this one.

[Raiders]

Hm, I've been interested in seeing Honeydripper, but you're the first I've seen to be quite so positive about it.

[MadMan]

I saw and loved John Sayles' The Brother From Another Planet this weekend. A unique, interesting, humane sci-fi flick with a great respect for its setting and some goofy 80's-ness.

I've also seen Lone Star from him. What else should I check out?I've only seen those two as well, and I loved both. "Brother" is pretty damn good and "Lone Star" is pure greatness. I do want to check out more of his work, and I'm taking all recommendations into account.

[megladon8]

John Sayles is probably the writer I admire most in today's film scene.

[The Mike]

Matewan is great.
This is the one that jumped out at me on IMDB, but I plan to check out many, if not all, of them.

I had a VHS copy of City of Hope in my hands once back in the days of VHS, I recall, and passed on it for some reason. :crazy:

[soitgoes...]

It's too bad Men with Guns is OOP too. I'm always trying to pimp that underseen film. Casa de los Babys is the most recent of his I've seen, and I thought it to be relatively good. Return of the Secaucus 7 has been floating near the Top of my Netflix queue for a number of months now.

[The Mike]

Matewan is OOP too? Within the last year they had that at the local Target!

Looks like I'll take most's advice and start with Limbo.

[soitgoes...]

Matewan is OOP too? Within the last year they had that at the local Target!

Looks like I'll take most's advice and start with Limbo.The DVD available for Matewan was terrible.

[Pop Trash]

The DVD available for Matewan was terrible.
This. I think a Criterion edition is in order. It's certainly worthy.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Yep, Limbo and Men With Guns from me too. Anything but Silver City really. Oh, Return of the Secaucus Seven is great too.

[megladon8]

I always thought Peter Sellers played the lead role in Lolita - Humbert Humbert. The guy after the young girl.

Huh. Learn something every day.

[MadMan]

I always thought Peter Sellers played the lead role in Lolita - Humbert Humbert. The guy after the young girl.

Huh. Learn something every day.James Mason is pretty good in that film, as is Sellers. Both excel at playing rather creepy, obsessive men in that film. Good movie as well, although Kubrick made far better movies.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, Silver City is pretty bad. Same with the one with Edie Falco.

I really want to see Men WIth Guns but it's no longer available.

[megladon8]

Looks like Spielberg and co. are in trouble for making Disturbia "a rip off of Rear Window".

Article here. (http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/va/20080908/122091570200.html)

[Morris Schæffer]

This is the one that jumped out at me on IMDB, but I plan to check out many, if not all, of them.

I had a VHS copy of City of Hope in my hands once back in the days of VHS, I recall, and passed on it for some reason. :crazy:

Definitely do Matewan!! Boy is the cast all kinds of awesome in this. And you've got David Strathairn doing a Chow-Yun Fat.;)

[Raiders]

Same with the one with Edie Falco.

Sunshine State? No way. It's one of my favorites.

[megladon8]

Broke down crying watching The Fountain last night.

That really is an incredible film. So sad, yet also uplifting at the same time. Definitely one I will always treasure.

It means a lot to me.

[Scar]

Yeah, not a fan of the Fountain....

[megladon8]

It doesn't seem like a very "Scar" movie.

[Scar]

It doesn't seem like a very "Scar" movie.

....and the wife flat out hated it.

[megladon8]

....and the wife flat out hated it.


Different strokes.

Certainly isn't a universally loved movie at all.

[MadMan]

Looks like Spielberg and co. are in trouble for making Disturbia "a rip off of Rear Window".

Article here. (http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/va/20080908/122091570200.html)Hah, when that film came out last year my friend and I joked that we had already seen that movie, and its called Rear Window. Looks like we right on the money.

[balmakboor]

Good movie as well, although Kubrick made far better movies.

I used to think that as well. Now I tend to think Kael had Kubrick nailed. Lolita impresses me more and more over time. Most of his later works less and less.

The two later movies that may be better are Barry Lyndon and, possibly, Dr Strangelove.

[Raiders]

I cannot imagine a world where Lolita is superior to 2001. It's just too difficult to perceive.

[Grouchy]

I used to think that as well. Now I tend to think Kael had Kubrick nailed. Lolita impresses me more and more over time. Most of his later works less and less.

The two later movies that may be better are Barry Lyndon and, possibly, Dr Strangelove.
Jesus Christ, no.

I'm this close to negative raping you.

[Qrazy]

I used to think that as well. Now I tend to think Kael had Kubrick nailed. Lolita impresses me more and more over time. Most of his later works less and less.

The two later movies that may be better are Barry Lyndon and, possibly, Dr Strangelove.

1. Lolita is indeed excellent.
2. Kael never nailed anything.
3. I only felt Kubrick's decline with his last two films. Everything post-Lolita and pre-Full Metal Jacket were better than Lolita. His overall output was so strong though that I chalk this one up much more to my personal preferences than to formal merits. I wouldn't have a problem with someone naming most of Kubrick's films as their favorite from him.

[balmakboor]

1. Lolita is indeed excellent.
2. Kael never nailed anything.
3. I only felt Kubrick's decline with his last two films. Everything post-Lolita and pre-Full Metal Jacket were better than Lolita. His overall output was so strong though that I chalk this one up much more to my personal preferences than to formal merits. I wouldn't have a problem with someone naming most of Kubrick's films as their favorite from him.

I remember being very upset over Kael's pan of The Shining years ago. Picking it up again recently, I found myself agreeing with much of what she said. The same held true when I read her negative reviews of A Clockwork Orange and Full Metal Jacket. I like and admire all three of these Kubrick films to a point. All three seem much more deeply flawed to me today than when I was in my 20s and considered Kubrick as a god. His outlook on humanity is just too limited. His direction of actors is too limiting.

In the case of A Clockwork Orange, I find it veering closer to unwatchability with each viewing. It has a sadistic kick that carries it for a while, but that wears off leaving it actually quite flat and dull and poorly paced for the final two thirds.

Lolita has the best acting and the most genuine expression of emotions of anything Kubrick made. I think Barry Lyndon approaches it in the emotions department and Strangelove in the acting department though. Those are the only Kubricks I've felt like watching for several years now.

[Qrazy]

Kubrick really isn't about the emotional subtleties and intricacies of the human species, but not all art or film needs to be and his work is probably improved by not trying to tackle what he's not overly interested in. I would venture that Paths of Glory has the best acting and is the most dramatically powerful of his films while 2001 is far and away his most visionary and awe inspiring.

[Boner M]

Pitfall - The lesser of CC's three films by Teshigahara collection, but still damn good. The 'all over the map' approach means that some elements feel undercooked (esp. the police investigation) but it's a quintessential 'young filmmaker' film, whose pleasures derive from the energy with which Teshigahara and Abe juggle so many ideas, rather than aspiring to any sort of cohesiveness.

[balmakboor]

Kubrick really isn't about the emotional subtleties and intricacies of the human species, but not all art or film needs to be and his work is probably improved by not trying to tackle what he's not overly interested in. I would venture that Paths of Glory has the best acting and is the most dramatically powerful of his films while 2001 is far and away his most visionary and awe inspiring.

I think we all look for certain nutritional value out of art and that can change over time. I don't look for the same things in or get the same things out of films now as I did in my 30s or my 20 or my teens. It's probably just a matter of my current needs and Kubrick's gifts not being in alignment. They definitely were 20 years ago. They may be again some day.

As for Kael, I hold her as the gold standard as a film critic, not for her insights or the rightness or wrongness of her evaluations, but for her writing talents. I write reviews as often as I can and strive to write as well as she did. Other gold medal film critics as writers for me include Canby, Ebert, and Manny Farber.

[soitgoes...]

Katyn (aka Wajda makes a WWII film, surprise!) was a disappointment. I've only seen his 50's trilogy, so I figured with 50 years of filmmaking experience as well as a topic that is obviously close to his heart he would pull off something special, perhaps a cap to a long career in cinema. Well what he gave us is a film that is somewhat of a mess. Keeping track of the characters who enter the film, disappear for large chunks of time, and really aren't properly setup to begin with, is a chore. It's as if he had a sprawling epic of a film in mind, and then just decided to pare it down to under 2 hours, to hell with the overall flow of what's left. What is left, and understood, is without a doubt a terrifying film. An account of the 20,000+ Poles who were executed by the Soviets during the course of a few days in the isolated Katyn forest, and then the ensuing cover-up after the war. Wajda touches on the feeling of claustrophobia, as the Poles are basically squeezed from both sides with nowhere to run. A great sequence at the beginning of the film has a large group of Poles running across a bridge away from the Nazis only to meet another group running the opposite direction away from the Soviets. What do you do? Where do you go? To be that powerless, what an awful feeling. But by the end of the film one should have the feeling of being gut-punched, but instead you're wondering why you are lacking that feeling.

I'm not sure how this was nominated for Best Foreign Language Film award at the Academy Awards, actually yes, I suppose I do. The Academy is ignorant of what's released overseas, and add a well-regarded director at the end of his long career making a film touching on horrific events, and you're bound to garner some attention.

Having watched films at both ends of his career, I'm interested in what lies at the middle. Any idea where I should head next?

[Yxklyx]

...
Having watched films at both ends of his career, I'm interested in what lies at the middle. Any idea where I should head next?

Promised Land

[Watashi]

In prep for Burn After Reading, I decided to revisit Intolerable Cruelty since its release considering I have remembered very little since then. Well, it's still the weakest Coens film, but it's still a great film even though there are some shaky spots (nearly every scene with Cedric the Entertainer comes to mind), but the supporting cast is gold. I would never give it a rotten grade, but if you compare it to the other Coen giants, I can see why it's sorta left at the bottom of the barrel.

Time to revisit The Ladykillers next.

[Sven]

(nearly every scene with Cedric the Entertainer comes to mind)

He's gonna nail your ass.

[Izzy Black]

His outlook on humanity is just too limited.

What does this mean?

[transmogrifier]

I used to think that as well. Now I tend to think Kael had Kubrick nailed. Lolita impresses me more and more over time. Most of his later works less and less.

The two later movies that may be better are Barry Lyndon and, possibly, Dr Strangelove.


Exactly right. The slavering over Kubrick as some sort of cinema god is one of the most perplexing things about this existence. I. Just. Don't. Get. It. I know he was frighteningly intelligent, but in general his films are just...limp and lifeless. He made one or two great films, but so have a lot of directors.

*shrugs*

Oh, except I didn't like Lolita much either.

[transmogrifier]

And it always amuses me that Qrazy hates Kael so much, when they have so much in common. Or maybe I just answered my own question.

[MadMan]

So far I've liked or loved everything I've seen from Kubrick. Granted that isn't a whole lot, but it is the following:

*The Killing-81
*Lolita-85
*Dr. Strangelove-100
*2001-100
*The Shining-85
*Full Metal Jacket-100, although I think a 97 score makes more sense the more I think about it. But I'm too lazy to change it at the moment on Criticker.

[Melville]

2001 - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 10
Dr. Strangelove - 10
Barry Lyndon - 8.5
Eyes Wide Shut - 8.5
Paths of Glory - 7.5
Full Metal Jacket - 7
The Killing - 6.5
Spartacus - 5.5
Lolita - 5
The Shining - 4

I love rating things.

[transmogrifier]

Paths of Glory 90
Dr. Strangelove 79
A Clockwork Orange 66
Lolita 61
Spartacus 60
Eyes Wide Shut 59
2001: A Space Odyssey 55
Shining, The 51
Full Metal Jacket 37


Meh.

[The Mike]

From fave to least fave:

1. The Shining
1.5. The Killing
3. 2001: ASO
4. Full Metal Jacket
479. Dr. Strangelove

I have copies of Killer's Kiss and Paths of Glory to view, and I plan to get around to A Clockwork Orange.

[Watashi]

Anyone seen Kiss of the Spider Woman?

It's pretty good. Not sure if I ever hear it talked about here.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I need to revisit a lot of Kubrick, with the exception of Dr. Strangelove, Lolita, FMJ and Clockwork, because it's been years since I last watched them. Most I tackled right when I was a budding cinephile, and I think my perspective on them is going to be a lot different now then back then.

Dr. Strangelove 10
Paths of Glory 9
Lolita 9
2001: A Space Odyssey 8
Full Metal Jacket 7.5
Barry Lyndon 7 (I am most anxious to revisit this one)
A Clockwork Orange 7
The Killing 6.5
Killer's Kiss 6
Spartacus 5

[Grouchy]

Anyone seen Kiss of the Spider Woman?

It's pretty good. Not sure if I ever hear it talked about here.
I haven't, but I've read the book it's based on four times. I definitively need to watch the movie.

Kubrick is the greatest thing that ever happened to cinema in English. His use of cinematography and focus to convey complex ideas is still unmatched. My ranking of his films:

1. Eyes Wide Shut
2. A Clockwork Orange
3. Barry Lyndon
4. 2001: A Space Odyssey
5. The Shining
6. Full Metal Jacket
7. Dr. Strangelove
8. Paths of Glory
9. Lolita
10. Killer's Kiss
11. Spartacus

[Teh Sausage]

Yay, Kubrick. He's always one of the earliest directors people discover, which results in tiring rampant fanboyism, unfortunately. Even non-cinephiles have watched A Clockwork Orange and Full Metal Jacket and love them. (though usually for the wrong reasons) At times, I wonder if I've grown out of his films and should knock him off my top spot of favourite filmmakers. But then I rewatch one of his films and be blown away all over again. He's one of those 'underrated overrated' filmmakers.

My rankings:

2001: A Space Odyssey
Barry Lyndon
Eyes Wide Shut
The Shining
Dr. Strangelove
Paths of Glory
The Killing
Full Metal Jacket

His 1987 film is the only one of his that gets weaker the more I see it, but it's still got some great ideas. Not got round to Lolita yet.

[soitgoes...]

I can finally say I've seen a bad Kurosawa film. Sanshiro Sugata 2 is indeed straight up crap. Way to go Kurosawa-san, as if your death wasn't enough to prove your mortality, you left us this beauty! In his defense, I suppose, he didn't ever want to make this film in the first place. Toho "pressured" him into it.

[Scar]

Yay, Kubrick. He's always one of the earliest directors people discover, which results in tiring rampant fanboyism, unfortunately. Even non-cinephiles have watched A Clockwork Orange and Full Metal Jacket and love them. (though usually for the wrong reasons) At times, I wonder if I've grown out of his films and should knock him off my top spot of favourite filmmakers. But then I rewatch one of his films and be blown away all over again. He's one of those 'underrated overrated' filmmakers.


I know plenty of people who are thouroughly disgusted with A Clockwork Orange.

[Ezee E]

I know plenty of people who are thouroughly disgusted with A Clockwork Orange.
Yeah, most people have this problem the first time they see it.

[balmakboor]

All of this Kubrick talk. I guess you can always count on the guy to spark discussion. My thoughts about his work are so tangled and my history with the work so long -- I saw The Shining in first run while I was a teenager -- that I suddenly feel to urge to write something in an attempt to untangle things. In the shower this morning, I roughly outlined a piece in my mind titled "Lolita vs Full Metal Jacket." I really see them as two very similar movies structurally and in terms of the one big idea they explore in common. I also think a comparison would highlight both what I love about his work and what I dislike about his work and ultimately why I presently prefer Lolita. I'll post it when it's finished, whenever that is.

My teenager daughter and niece are both really getting into movies now and they asked me where they should start. I told them a lot of people start with Kubrick and for very good reason. Them I showed them Barry Lyndon which they both loved.

[Ezee E]

The Shining is my favorite of his still, but every time I watch Eyes Wide Shut, I can't help but think that it may actually be the better, and also, best of everything he's done. It more or less takes a bit of every movie he's done, and combines it into one somehow.

[balmakboor]

I know plenty of people who are thouroughly disgusted with A Clockwork Orange.

I once showed this at a movie party back in the 80s and one of the young women ran from the room in tears during the rape scene. Turns out, she had been raped as a teenager. I don't blame ACO for this of course, I actually applaud it in a way.

[Ezee E]

I once showed this at a movie party back in the 80s and one of the young women ran from the room in tears during the rape scene. Turns out, she had been raped as a teenager. I don't blame ACO for this of course, I actually applaud it in a way.
Applaud it for what?

[Qrazy]

And it always amuses me that Qrazy hates Kael so much, when they have so much in common.

For instance?

[Scar]

I once showed this at a movie party back in the 80s and one of the young women ran from the room in tears during the rape scene. Turns out, she had been raped as a teenager. I don't blame ACO for this of course, I actually applaud it in a way.

If you want to make some real points, show the movie to a room full of high school girls.

:|

[balmakboor]

Applaud it for what?

It certainly had an effect. I don't applaud it for terrorizing the poor woman of course.

[balmakboor]

If you want to make some real points, show the movie to a room full of high school girls.

:|

I'd thought about showing it to my daughter and niece, but I figured since they like Marie Antoinette (Coppola's) so much that Barry Lyndon would be more to their taste.

[balmakboor]

Just got word on our Cinema 100 October series. First three are confirmed and the last two are almost confirmed.

October 2: Days of Heaven
October 9: Blind Shaft
October 16: Paths of Glory
October 23: finalizing Cool Hand Luke
October 30: finalizing King of California

I'm pretty excited to see Days of Heaven on the big screen. I'm not too excited about King of California though. Anyone seen it?

[Teh Sausage]

I know plenty of people who are thouroughly disgusted with A Clockwork Orange.

I've yet to meet any, but that doesn't surprise me. Most would have that reaction, or the one I often encounter - "it's so awesomely sick and weird!!!"

[Grouchy]

The Shining is my favorite of his still, but every time I watch Eyes Wide Shut, I can't help but think that it may actually be the better, and also, best of everything he's done. It more or less takes a bit of every movie he's done, and combines it into one somehow.
This is exactly how I feel about it. It highlights every major theme in his work - dehumanization, sex, authority and fear.

[number8]

Ghost Rider is on HBO.

My god, is this shitty.

[Duncan]

I agree with Teh Sausage. I always revisit Kubrick's films expecting to be disappointed, and never am.

2001 is my fave, EWS is my second fave.

[Derek]

Ghost Rider is on HBO.

My god, is this shitty.

Wes Bentley is hilarious. He almost makes you forget how awful Eva Mendes is.

[Rowland]

A 92% for Tell No One, RT? An 83, Metacritic? Seriously? Possibly the year's most overrated movie heretofore, I didn't exactly dislike this gallic mystery-thriller that plays like a Hitchcockian update of The Big Sleep told in a distinctly modern style, but it hardly had me at the edge of my seat, and it certainly failed to resonate on any thematic or emotional level. So why a mildly positive score? Despite the haphazard plotting, lax pacing, overly talkative script weighed down by excessive exposition, and all-around hollowness, there are slight pleasures to be had, most found in the margins. The occasional absurdist aside, oddball minor character, and inspired formal touch, as well as the conviction conveyed by the actors, the overall logic that drives the ridiculously labyrinth plot (even if it isn't told particularly well), and one of the year's best action sequences that made me wish the director had cut out half the plot and tacked on a few more chases, kept me from being outright bored, even if it didn't leave much of an impression on any level. It's still better and more distinctive than most of Hollywood's attempts at this sort of movie, which is faint praise, but praise all the same.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Wes Bentley is hilarious. He almost makes you forget how awful Eva Mendes is.

I have a hard time concentrating on Eva Mendes' acting abilities. I just end up staring. It's a problem.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I've seen only five Kubricks. I get the love, but I don't share it. I find him a director whose heart is in the camera, not the characters or story.

[Raiders]

awful Eva Mendes is.

I thought she was pretty good in We Own the Night and perfectly acceptable in Out of Time, but I always hear about her awful acting. Maybe like KF, I am simply swayed by her hawtness.

[Morris Schæffer]

2001 - ****
A Clockwork Orange - ***½
Dr. Strangelove - **½
Eyes Wide Shut - ***½
Spartacus - ****
The Shining - **½

[Derek]

I have a hard time concentrating on Eva Mendes' acting abilities. I just end up staring. It's a problem.

The convenience is that there's no acting abilities to distract you. I agree she's absolutely gorgeous.

[Derek]

I thought she was pretty good in We Own the Night and perfectly acceptable in Out of Time, but I always hear about her awful acting. Maybe like KF, I am simply swayed by her hawtness.

She's perfectly acceptable in We Own the Night, but horrible in the other few I've seen her in. Always hawt of course.

[Winston*]

The only thing I remember seeing Eva Mendes in was Training Day. Remember how awful Training Day was? Pretty awful.

[Rowland]

The only thing I remember seeing Eva Mendes in was Training Day. Remember how awful Training Day was? Pretty awful.I haven't seen it in years, but I recall thinking it was a damn fine thriller.

[Melville]

The only thing I remember seeing Eva Mendes in was Training Day. Remember how awful Training Day was? Pretty awful.
Pretty really awful.

[MadMan]

I haven't seen it in years, but I recall thinking it was a damn fine thriller.Same here. I also recall liking Hawke's performance as much as Washington's.

You'll get no disagreement from me on the hotness level of Mendes. She's smokin'.

Some of the low scores for Dr. Strangelove in this thread are not only disappointing to me, but puzzling as well. The film is damn near perfect, and is very, very funny.

[The Mike]

I'm not too excited about King of California though. Anyone seen it?

I wouldn't say I was put off by it, but it didn't strike me as being as deep or smart as it wanted to be. It was just a mid-range indie flick, with some good things, most of which have been done better in a lot of other films.

[The Mike]

Some of the low scores for Dr. Strangelove in this thread are not only disappointing to me, but puzzling as well. The film is damn near perfect, and is very, very funny.

If one laugh for the entire film counts as very, very funny, then I agree.

[Rowland]

Within the next few days I hope to watch The Last Winter, Burn After Reading, Mad Detective, and Stuck, as well as repeat viewings of 28 Weeks Later, Hard Boiled, and Syndromes and a Century. I'm excited for them all, here's hoping I'm more enthused for them than I've been towards what I've been watching as of late.

[transmogrifier]

For instance?

Hatred.

[MadMan]

If one laugh for the entire film counts as very, very funny, then I agree.:| There was more than one laugh. There were many laughs.

Also I wish I could remember what movie the quote in your sig is from. Its very familiar.

[Qrazy]

Hatred.

Bah, I thought you had more up your sleeve than that, that's not much of anything.

[transmogrifier]

Bah, I thought you had more up your sleeve than that, that's not much of anything.

Well, as a committed purveyor of acidic venom towards all humanity, particularly films said humanity humbly lay at our feet for our amusement, I'm sure hatred is not much of anything in your world.

But really, Kael was pretty cutting in her opinions, you doubly so; she was outspoken and passionate, as a you; she stuck to her guns, as do you.

The only difference is that I agree with her a lot more than you. And I think she's a better writer, though I haven't read anything longer than two sentences from you outside of a debate with iosos, so it's an unfair comparison.

[Qrazy]

Well, as a committed purveyor of acidic venom towards all humanity, particularly films said humanity humbly lay at our feet for our amusement, I'm sure hatred is not much of anything in your world.

But really, Kael was pretty cutting in her opinions, you doubly so; she was outspoken and passionate, as a you; she stuck to her guns, as do you.

The only difference is that I agree with her a lot more than you. And I think she's a better writer, though I haven't read anything longer than two sentences from you outside of a debate with iosos, so it's an unfair comparison.

Did I insult your favorite film recently or something? Need tissue for cry?

[MadMan]

Tissue For Cry should become a poster here. He/she'd have a lot of business 'round these parts.




And yes I know its alias. But I don't know who's behind said alias.

[transmogrifier]

Did I insult your favorite film recently or something? Need tissue for cry?

Two sentences.

[Qrazy]

Two sentences.

Wah. Wah.

[transmogrifier]

Wah. Wah.

Fragments don't count. :)

[Qrazy]

Fragments don't count. :)

Eliot disagrees!

[transmogrifier]

Eliot disagrees!

What did he know about anything?

("She" if we are talking about the character from Scrubs)

[Qrazy]

What did he know about anything?

("She" if we are talking about the character from Scrubs)

I believe he was an expert on shores and ruins and conceivably ruins along shorelines.

[Watashi]

I think I've finally decided to finish up Scorsese's filmography.

Rank what I have left to see in top priority:

Shine a Light
Kundun
Casino
The Age of Innocence
Cape Fear
The Color of Money
The Last Waltz
New York, New York
Who's that Knocking at My Door?

[Sven]

Casino
The Last Waltz
Cape Fear
Kundun
New York, New York
The Age of Innocence
Shine a Light
The Color of Money

[Grouchy]

I think I've finally decided to finish up Scorsese's filmography.

Rank what I have left to see in top priority:

Shine a Light
Kundun
Casino
The Age of Innocence
Cape Fear
The Color of Money
The Last Waltz
New York, New York
Who's that Knocking at My Door?

1. The Age of Innocence
2. Casino
3. Cape Fear
4. New York, New York
5. The Last Waltz
6. Who's That Knocking At My Door?
7. The Color of Money
8. Shine a Light

[Boner M]

Weekend.

The Horse Thief
Funny Games USA
Boudu Saved From Drowning
Scarface (32)
Trafic

[Spinal]

Me ...

Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Bad Boy Bubby

Possibly:

Burn After Reading

[Boner M]

Bad Boy Bubby
You'll love this. Then I'll love you, Spinal.

[Watashi]

Weekend:

Burn After Reading
Vagabond
Legend
The Band Wagon

And maybe Righteous Kill for the lulz.

[Raiders]

Weekend:

Burn After Reading
Frozen River
Daisy Kenyon

[Boner M]

Friday Night (2002) 89
Yay, even the exact same rating as me. Thoughts?

[balmakboor]

I thought I'd share this email about our upcoming October series. If any of you have any interest in putting a film series together, this is what movies currently cost for a one-day, two-screening rental agreement. I also found the bit about some of them being shown on DVD interesting and somewhat disappointing. It won't be long until having a decent projector showing DVDs in your basement will be as good as a theater. I was watching Harry Potter on a $20,000 demo setup the other day and it WAS as good as some theaters I've been in.

---

Hi Brian, All films are set. Some will be on DVD now as that is a new way of doing things. They project beautifully through our new digital systems which are not yet in theatre #4, so we will move around. 10/2, DAYS OF HEAVEN...$250/ 10/9, BLINDSHAFT...$250/ 10/16, PATHS OF GLORY...$250/ 10/23, COOL HAND LUKE...$350/ 10/30, KING OF CALIFORNIA...$350. Let me know if you need changes...........Jerry

[dreamdead]

Weekend:
Platform (Jia)
Dead or Alive 2: Birds (Miike)
rewatch The Vertical Ray of the Sun (Tran)

[dreamdead]

I rather enjoyed Albert Brooks' Lost in America, which is the hearkening back to the anti-establishment and refusal of bourgeois, capitalist America. In that sense, it's sweet and endearing in its attempt to reestablish what is integral to a happy life together with a couple, even if both sexes have their own neuroses that problematize any attempt at happiness. Yet the film largely remains fixed on character and doesn't really rely on stereotype, though it is a bit problematic that Linda's character somehow comes off as more neurotic. Still, in the me-first economy of the '80s, it's unusual to see a film try as much as this one does to locate happiness outside of the economy (and the inherent incongruities with such a plan when we've been ingrained to regard the two as co-existing) iuntil the coda...

[Duncan]

Weekend:

Tokyo Sonata
Achilles and the Tortoise
Burn After Reading, maybe
A Taste of Cherry, maybe

[Yxklyx]

Weekend:

Satantango (final disc)
Trafic
Little Murders

[Stay Puft]

Weekend:

Tokyo Sonata
Achilles and the Tortoise

Ditto. Plus The Wrestler.

By the way, I successfully rushed 24 City, and I was near the back of the line. The theatre was only filled to about 2/3 capacity all said and done. Don't know why it was ever off sale. (That being Sunday night - don't know which one you were trying to get in.)

[Duncan]

By the way, I successfully rushed 24 City, and I was near the back of the line. The theatre was only filled to about 2/3 capacity all said and done. Don't know why it was ever off sale. (That being Sunday night - don't know which one you were trying to get in.) Hmm, I definitely tried for Sunday night. The Internet screwed me over.

[MadMan]

Weekend:

*Burn After Reading(2008)

That's probably about it.

[balmakboor]

Weekend:

I'll be reviewing Burn After Reading for the paper. I'll also finally get around to Visconti's The Damned, I hope.

[Ezee E]

I think I've finally decided to finish up Scorsese's filmography.

Rank what I have left to see in top priority:

Shine a Light
Kundun
Casino
The Age of Innocence
Cape Fear
The Color of Money
The Last Waltz
New York, New York
Who's that Knocking at My Door?

Casino
Who's That Knocking at My Door
Cape Fear
Age of Innocence
Kundun
New York, New York
The Last Waltz
Shine A Light

[Ezee E]

Weekend:
Burn After Reading
Vicki Cristina Barcelona

Benny's Video
The end of Season 3 of Lost
Time of the Wolf

[balmakboor]

I think I've finally decided to finish up Scorsese's filmography.

Rank what I have left to see in top priority:

Shine a Light
Kundun
Casino
The Age of Innocence
Cape Fear
The Color of Money
The Last Waltz
New York, New York
Who's that Knocking at My Door?

The Last Waltz
The Color of Money (far and away his most underrated film)
Casino
Age of Innocence
New York, New York
Cape Fear
Who's That Knocking at My Door
Kundun

Shine A Light (Haven't seen)

[Rowland]

Cape Fear
...
..
.
Casino

[Rowland]

Time of the WolfThe first half hour of this is fucking brilliant. The rest is meh.

[MadMan]

Casino is awesome. I must really continue to explore more of Marty's filmography. Especially his 1970s work, which I jumped into first with the great classic Taxi Driver.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Casino
The Color of Money
Cape Fear
The Age of Innocence


I don't particularly care for the last two.

[The Mike]

This weekend I'll be watching some Hitchcock flicks Friday night, Traitor or Burn after Reading or both, Redbelt, The Corpse Vanishes, The Brave One, Sweeney Todd, and/or Logan's Run.

[origami_mustache]

weekend:
The Office season 4

[D_Davis]

weekend:
The Office season 4

I just finished this on DVD, and it was not as bad as I remember. I missed a couple of episodes on TV, and they were actually really good. One in particular, The Deposition, was really good, and really sad.

[MadMan]

I need to rent Season 4, as I missed all of it except for one episode. Still I plan on watching the Office Season 5 when it starts up. I actually dived into the Office midway through the second season, and actually I still haven't seen the first half of Season 2. I have seen all of Season 1 and Season 3 though.

[origami_mustache]

I just finished this on DVD, and it was not as bad as I remember. I missed a couple of episodes on TV, and they were actually really good. One in particular, The Deposition, was really good, and really sad.

I've gotten through the first 2 discs...the first 3 "hour long" (42 min.) episodes weren't all that great, but the next 5 were solid. I especially enjoyed "Branch Wars."

[D_Davis]

I've gotten through the first 2 discs...the first 3 "hour long" (42 min.) episodes weren't all that great, but the next 5 were solid. I especially enjoyed "Branch Wars."

Totally agree. The season got off to a very ho-hum start, and it kind of spoiled my appetite for the rest. And then the writers' strike....

[transmogrifier]

The Major and the Minor - one joke spread far too thin.

[Scar]

Don't know if we'll get to many movies this weekend, since my little bro and his family are coming down on Saturday.

Might try to watch Miami Vice tonight.

Maybe after all the beers and video games, we'll give Casino Royale a spin. After watching the latest Quantum of Solace, I'm jonesing for a fix.

[soitgoes...]

Weekend possibilities:

Enamorada (Fernandez)
Dragnet Girl (Ozu)
News from Home (Akerman)
Through the Olive Trees (Kiarostami)
Prison (Bergman)

[Boner M]

Saw a pretty good new Australian film tonight - Three Blind Mice. Plenty of charm and energy and mostly well acted. More interesting was that I was the only person in the theatre on it's opening Friday night screening. Guess that's cultural cringe for ya.

[Boner M]

News from Home (Akerman)
Through the Olive Trees (Kiarostami)
I'll probably be watch the Kiarostami as well this w'end. I was trying to get a hold on the previous two in trilogy, but my university library only had this one. I guess having seen the predecessors isn't too much of a pre-requisite.

Will be curious to hear what you think of the Akerman. I was so surprised at how engaged I was by it, ditto with Les Rendez-vous D'Anna. Can't wait to see more of hers.

[balmakboor]

Ebert's still in there getting in his licks. :)

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2008/09/12/ap/entertainment/d934udc00.txt

[B-side]

Watching Denis' The Intruder tonight. I expect good things. My first Denis film, too.

[thefourthwall]

Did anyone see the new Brideshead Revisited and just refrain from mentioning it's awesomeness on this site?

I'm tempted to drive 45 min by myself for what appears to be my last opportunity to see it in the theaters, but I'm a bit conflicted. It's one of my favorite books, but the mini-series was unwatchable for me, so...how much effort do I expend for more potential heartbreak?

[balmakboor]

Did anyone see the new Brideshead Revisited and just refrain from mentioning it's awesomeness on this site?

I'm tempted to drive 45 min by myself for what appears to be my last opportunity to see it in the theaters, but I'm a bit conflicted. It's one of my favorite books, but the mini-series was unwatchable for me, so...how much effort do I expend for more potential heartbreak?

My review is on my BC Writer's page (link in sig). I liked it.

[soitgoes...]

I'll probably be watch the Kiarostami as well this w'end. I was trying to get a hold on the previous two in trilogy, but my university library only had this one. I guess having seen the predecessors isn't too much of a pre-requisite.

Will be curious to hear what you think of the Akerman. I was so surprised at how engaged I was by it, ditto with Les Rendez-vous D'Anna. Can't wait to see more of hers.I think the first one should be watched before the second, but I'm not sure whether or not it's important to see either prior to the last.

It'll be my first Akerman, and to be honest I'm as much nervous as I am excited.

[Derek]

I think the first one should be watched before the second, but I'm not sure whether or not it's important to see either prior to the last.

It helps to have seen And Life Goes On... first since Olive Trees is based on a couple that appeared in the earlier film, but you could probably find all you need about the background by browsing a couple reviews.

[soitgoes...]

It helps to have seen And Life Goes On... first since Olive Trees is based on a couple that appeared in the earlier film, but you could probably find all you need about the background by browsing a couple reviews.Yeah, this is pretty much what I was thinking, but obviously I wasn't sure, as I haven't seen the film yet. And Life Goes On... on the other hand references Where Is the Friend's Home? throughout, so those two I feel it is most necessary to watch in order.

[thefourthwall]

My review is on my BC Writer's page (link in sig). I liked it.

Thanks. Your review does make me want to see it more, but with the advent of a cold, this film might be consigned to rentals.

[balmakboor]

It'll be my first Akerman, and to be honest I'm as much nervous as I am excited.

Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

This is one of the most memorable theater experiences I've had, back in 1982. There were about 200 college students in the theater (lecture hall actually). About 150 walked out. I was totally absorbed from start to finish and had never even imagined a film being made like it before. It has really stuck with me. Here is a short clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C5Az-239uM

[Mysterious Dude]

Damn. Does it normally take that long to peel a potato?

[Winston*]

Maybe it's a something within the film, but devoid of context that youtube scene plays as parody.

[Ezee E]

She's got two more to go. Why not film that too?

[transmogrifier]

The bit at the end, where she follows two short strokes across the topof the potato with a longer stroke down the length of the potato was awesome!

[Boner M]

lol akerman is sooo slow only pretenshous ppl watch her filmz

[transmogrifier]

lol akerman is sooo slow only pretenshous ppl watch her filmz


The doods a chick! Woah!

That explains knowing about peeling potatoes, am I right?

[Boner M]

That explains knowing about peeling potatoes, am I right?
i bet she is hairy in places she shouldnt be hary lol

[transmogrifier]

i bet she is hairy in places she shouldnt be hary lol


Like yur mom lol

[Watashi]

The potato represents abortion, right?

[number8]

Gym Teacher: The Movie is awesome.

[Spinal]

I'm kicking myself for not seeing the Akerman at the IMAX theater.

[Boner M]

Anyway, that clip was awesome. Probably the #1 film on my all-time must-see list.

[Watashi]

I'm kicking myself for not seeing the Akerman at the IMAX theater.
Screw IMAX, I want to see it in Digital 3D. I have to have those potato peels fly up into my face to enhance the realism.

[Winston*]

I am sarcastically using language below my general level of rhetoric in order to criticize the lack of sophistication and cliched viewpoints I perceive to be present in the posts preceding mine

[transmogrifier]

I am sarcastically using language below my general level of rhetoric in order to criticize the lack of sophistication and cliched viewpoints I perceive to be present in the posts preceding mine

Spk english pinko

[Watashi]

I am sarcastically using language below my general level of rhetoric in order to criticize the lack of sophistication and cliched viewpoints I perceive to be present in the posts preceding mine
whatev, don't make me neg-rep you some more.

[transmogrifier]

Anyway, Winston* was right the first time: no context = parody.

[Boner M]

I am describing Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles in terms that suggest a more extravagant and fast-moving film than Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles in order to ironically suggest the opposite of what one experiences when watching Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

[Derek]

Gym Teacher: The Movie is awesome.

The Nickelodeon movie with Amy Sedaris? I like Sedaris, but the clip I saw looked ridiculously stupid.


And good call on posting that Akerman clip, fasozupow. Where's the story? Where's the character arc? Where's the huuuuuman drama!?

[Winston*]

whatev, don't make me neg-rep you some more.
Soon my internet forum reputation will surpass yours and there is nothing you and your pitiful "neg-rep" can do about it.

[transmogrifier]

And good call on posting that Akerman clip, fasozupow. Where's the story? Where's the character arc? Where's the huuuuuman drama!?

It's a woman peeling a potato.

[Spinal]

Thankfully, I am drinking alcohol with friends soon. My Friday night message board experiences never end well.

[Watashi]

Soon my internet forum reputation will surpass yours and there is nothing you and your pitiful "neg-rep" can do about it.
My internet penis is bigger than your internet penis.

[Derek]

I am describing Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles in terms that suggest a more extravagant and fast-moving film than Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles in order to ironically suggest the opposite of what one experiences when watching Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

Yes, films that challenge the notion of what a film is brings out the reactionary in all of us.

*Group hug*

[Boner M]

btw, where did Clipper Ship Captain go? This is usually the part where he schools us by calling us assholes and using the term 'raison d'etre' more than what is necessary.

[Winston*]

I am describing Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles in terms that suggest a more extravagant and fast-moving film than Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles in order to ironically suggest the opposite of what one experiences when watching Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

You should've satirised my post IMO. Then we could've had an old fashioned meta-escalation and brought this forum to its knees.

[transmogrifier]

Thankfully, I am drinking alcohol with friends soon. My Friday night message board experiences never end well.


Me too! Except it's Saturday here.

[Spinal]

Me too! Except it's Saturday here.

Ha ha. I have more weekend left.

It's the alcohol talking.

[Watashi]

I want Drunk Spinal to post more.

[transmogrifier]

Ha ha. I have more weekend left.

It's the alcohol talking.

Ha, I have no work Monday!

*still sober and just cruel*

[Derek]

It's a woman peeling a potato.

This statement is true. :)

[soitgoes...]

Enamorada turned out to be just as fantastic as I was hoping. A film by Emilio Fernández, better known for his acting in Sam Peckinpah movies to us gringos, (he's also the model for the Oscar statuette,) he was churning out gems in the 40's before Buñuel put Mexico on the cinematic map. With Enamorada he takes us to revolutionary Mexico where rebel General José Juan Reyes (Pedro Armendáriz of John Ford fame) takes over the town of Cholula, and begins to round up all the rich locals in order to relieve them of their wealth. One of these rich men has a daughter (the striking Mária Félix) who catches the eye of Reyes. He wants her. She is defiant, plus she's engaged to another.

It all boils down to a well made melodrama. Fernández injects a good amount of humor, and with some solid acting by the leads we get a great film. Also Gabriel Figueroa of Buñuel's Mexican phase lends his hand behind the camera, and one of the most beautiful renditions of "Ave Maria" is sung by actor Fernando Fernández.

Sorry if this reads all choppy, but I'm tired and I'm off to bed, but I wanted to get my thoughts down beforehand. So if you're able, check this out.

[Sven]

Man. iosos is totally hungover for the second time in his life and he gets on the board only to see that he missed out on some quality drunk Jeanne Dielman bashing. iosos is sad and his head hurts. Frowny face.

Dielman is a film that works great on paper (copping what I believe was Grouchy's description), but kind of only has one idea at play. It's a film that intentionally bores the hell out of you for three hours (the tedium is intentional and I think, having really tackled and dissected the film, that if you DON'T feel that tedium, you're not "getting it").

But dude... last thing I want to do is rattle a saber (thanks, Spinal!) right now. If you like it, great! To me, it's a film impossible to consider in terms of "like". But it does have my respect, however tempered with the frustration of watching twenty minutes of a woman go shopping for potatoes and then peeling those potatoes.

[dreamdead]

Finally saw a Takashi Miike film that is actually emotionally affecting, rather than the typical gonzo action/horror or static but understated drama, and weirdly that film is Dead or Alive 2: Birds. For a film that is ostensibly so concerned with levels of masculinity and machismo (see the trailer for testimony), it's straightforward in its yearning for childhood innocence and wonder, even if that yearning is only approachable through the film's intercuts back into the days of youth. Thus, the film has two scenes of undeniable power: one, when Miike intercuts between a children's play and a bloody gun battle, giving Coppola the finger in terms of thematic juxtaposition; and two, when Mizuki carries Shu up the hill, which is turn intercut with a promise of childhood loyalty. Strikingly effective in its color palette throughout, and a much stronger film than the original film, which never really delivered on its opening and finale.

[Russ]

Finally saw a Takashi Miike film that is actually emotionally affecting, rather than the typical gonzo action/horror or static but understated drama, and weirdly that film is Dead or Alive 2: Birds. For a film that is ostensibly so concerned with levels of masculinity and machismo (see the trailer for testimony), it's straightforward in its yearning for childhood innocence and wonder, even if that yearning is only approachable through the film's intercuts back into the days of youth. Thus, the film has two scenes of undeniable power: one, when Miike intercuts between a children's play and a bloody gun battle, giving Coppola the finger in terms of thematic juxtaposition; and two, when Mizuki carries Shu up the hill, which is turn intercut with a promise of childhood loyalty. Strikingly effective in its color palette throughout, and a much stronger film than the original film, which never really delivered on its opening and finale.
Right on the money with your observations. However, don't let your curiosity get the better of you if you're thinking about watching Dead or Alive: Final, one of the worst Miike films I've ever seen. It starts out with a pretty decent opening but it's all downhill from there. Everything about it, from the heavy-handed "story" to the grade-z special effects, screams going-through-the-motions.

For more thoughtful and substantive Miike, be sure to check out Big Bang Love: Juvenile A and especially The Bird People in China (hearsay recommendation, as I still have yet to see it, but those that have seem quite impressed).

[Kurosawa Fan]

I liked One Hour With You quite a bit. Very charming film, and if I wasn't sold on it before, the scene where Mitzi is untying Andre's tie on the veranda certainly did it. Yowza. Very hot for a film from the 30's. Lubitsch has yet to let me down.

[NickGlass]

Dielman is a film that works great on paper (copping what I believe was Grouchy's description), but kind of only has one idea at play. It's a film that intentionally bores the hell out of you for three hours (the tedium is intentional and I think, having really tackled and dissected the film, that if you DON'T feel that tedium, you're not "getting it").

But dude... last thing I want to do is rattle a saber (thanks, Spinal!) right now. If you like it, great! To me, it's a film impossible to consider in terms of "like". But it does have my respect, however tempered with the frustration of watching twenty minutes of a woman go shopping for potatoes and then peeling those potatoes.

It rocks my world.

[balmakboor]

Wow! This is the first time I've checked in since I posted that Jeanne Dielman clip. Fun comments. Trust me, there is more to the film than peeling a potato. She also washes dishes and takes a bath. (I can't remember if it reveals any hair where it shouldn't be.) The film is all pretty much at the pace of that clip and it is all about settling in and getting a feel for her daily routine. Then something happens -- off screen with a John (she's a prostitute) -- and then you start to notice all sorts of details about her routine no longer being the same. And then there is the ending...

I think most of you can understand from that clip why 3/4 of the audience walked out grumbling when I saw it.

[Sven]

I just watched the Coens's Ladykillers again, riding on the Burn After Reading high. Great film. Straddles profundity and expert silliness. It's like a beautiful cartoon.

[Ezee E]

I just watched the Coens's Ladykillers again, riding on the Burn After Reading high. Great film. Straddles profundity and expert silliness. It's like a beautiful cartoon.
YES! I'm glad you mention it. It is like a cartoon. The wildness of the characters, the ways they die, how the old woman manages to just screw everything up, the changing faces on the painting, and the Looney Tunes body dump. Exactly.

[NickGlass]

I just watched the Coens's Ladykillers again, riding on the Burn After Reading high. Great film. Straddles profundity and expert silliness. It's like a beautiful cartoon.

It's the only one of their films I consider terrible (or even very poor, to any degree). I just got back from Burn After Reading--which I really enjoyed, even if I'm not completely sure its misanthropy is in the right place--and it shows that the Coens are even fantastic writer-directors even when they're dealing with the theme of inconsequence.

With The Ladykillers, however, the humor is lame (IBS? Really, Joel and Ethan?), the performances miscalculated and...well, I don't remember much beyond that. I tried to watch some of it on some movie network recently and I didn't make it past 10 minutes. It's nearly indescribable; I just find it putrid.

[Boner M]

Eloge de l'amour - Passages of intense beauty (esp. near the end), but mostly abstruse and challenging with little reward. Don't want to write it off too quickly though; seems like the kinda thing I'll come back to in the future and slap my head for being such a neanderthal the first time around.

[Raiders]

Eloge de l'amour - Passages of intense beauty (esp. near the end), but mostly abstruse and challenging with little reward. Don't want to write it off too quickly though; seems like the kinda thing I'll come back to in the future and slap my head for being such a neanderthal the first time around.

I don't think your rating is low enough. Likely my least favorite Godard. Too much bitterness inside the beauty.

[Boner M]

I don't think your rating is low enough. Likely my least favorite Godard. Too much bitterness inside the beauty.
Bitterness is fine, but for the most part I don't think he channels it into anything worthwhile, other than rote Spielberg/Hollywood-related snark. It's only when he starts experimenting with grainy video textures that the film really clicked for me, creating sound + image abstractions that work on a primal, sensual (rather than intellectual) level.

[Raiders]

Bitterness is fine, but for the most part I don't think he channels it into anything worthwhile, other than rote Spielberg/Hollywood-related snark.

Yeah, that's what I meant. It all felt kind of petty to me and not delivered with the sly contempt he normally seems capable of.

[Derek]

Bitterness is fine, but for the most part I don't think he channels it into anything worthwhile, other than rote Spielberg/Hollywood-related snark. It's only when he starts experimenting with grainy video textures that the film really clicked for me, creating sound + image abstractions that work on a primal, sensual (rather than intellectual) level.

Incorrect (http://www.cinematicreflections.com/inpraiseoflove.html). The best thing Godard's done since the 60s along with Nouvelle Vague. Full of passion, anger, frustration, longing and regret. I admit to leaving the theater scratching my head a bit when I first saw it, but a second (and since third) viewing was a revelation.

[Sven]

Instead of doing anything pressing or responsible today, of which I have a bajillion, I watched Burn After Reading (excellent), The Ladykillers (ecstatic), Fury (masterful), and Die Hard 2 (ridiculous).

Great day indeed.

[transmogrifier]

Instead of doing anything pressing or responsible today, of which I have a bajillion, I watched Burn After Reading (excellent), The Ladykillers (ecstatic), Fury (masterful), and Die Hard 2 (ridiculous).

Great day indeed.

Die Hard 2 > The Ladykillers

[Sven]

Die Hard 2 > The Ladykillers

Following your own footsteps in arguments past, this leads me to conclude that you think:

Harlin > Coens

You = epic fail.

But seriously, it's my favorite Die Hard film. However, there's no denying its ludicrousness.

[Qrazy]

Mackendrick's Ladykillers > Better than anything else being discussed

[transmogrifier]

Following your own footsteps in arguments past, this leads me to conclude that you think:

Harlin > Coens

You = epic fail.

But seriously, it's my favorite Die Hard film. However, there's no denying its ludicrousness.

No, that was Qrazy's crazy idea - that liking one particular film over an other was an automatic judgement on the entire output of the respective directors.

Though Die Hard 2 is better than three, maybe four Coen films - Raising Arizona, The Ladykillers, Intolerable Cruelty......perhaps Oh Brother.

[Winston*]

Well, this weekend my media viewings consisted of several episodes of The Venture Bros and about half an hour of Jaws 3.

On this basis, I'm going to have to declare: television cartoons > movies

[soitgoes...]

Well, this weekend my media viewings consisted of several episodes of The Venture Bros and about half an hour of Jaws 3.

On this basis, I'm going to have to declare: television cartoons > movies
If you had seen Jaws 3 in theaters when first released, then you would have witnessed it in all its 3-D glory. Floating bits of stupid humans coming at you just as it would in reality with the added benefit of a strange blue-red hue > any cartoon.

[soitgoes...]

Will be curious to hear what you think of the Akerman. I was so surprised at how engaged I was by it, ditto with Les Rendez-vous D'Anna. Can't wait to see more of hers.It was great. It is a surprisingly engaging film. Once I felt the longing to hear Akerman's voice read one of her mother's letters I knew I was hooked. I like how towards the beginning her camera is distant, removed from everyone. As the film progresses she becomes more bold, but never fully integrated into being a New Yorker. Her mother's letters might be drowned out by everyday life, but in the end they are still the only thing she connects with. And the last scene...:eek:

[balmakboor]

It was great. It is a surprisingly engaging film. Once I felt the longing to hear Akerman's voice read one of her mother's letters I knew I was hooked. I like how towards the beginning her camera is distant, removed from everyone. As the film progresses she becomes more bold, but never fully integrated into being a New Yorker. Her mother's letters might be drowned out by everyday life, but in the end they are still the only thing she connects with. And the last scene...:eek:

Yes, Akerman does have a way of ending her films with...

[Qrazy]

No, that was Qrazy's crazy idea - that liking one particular film over an other was an automatic judgement on the entire output of the respective directors.

Though Die Hard 2 is better than three, maybe four Coen films - Raising Arizona, The Ladykillers, Intolerable Cruelty......perhaps Oh Brother.

No that was your misinterpretation of what I said so you still equal fail. Also Raising Arizona is one of the Coens better films.

[B-side]

I wasn't a big fan of In Praise Of Love either. Gorgeous looking film, but oh-so empty.

[Sven]

which I really enjoyed, even if I'm not completely sure its misanthropy is in the right place

Its misanthropy is a difficult, difficult thing.


With The Ladykillers, however, the humor is lame (IBS? Really, Joel and Ethan?), the performances miscalculated and...well, I don't remember much beyond that. I tried to watch some of it on some movie network recently and I didn't make it past 10 minutes. It's nearly indescribable; I just find it putrid.

Well, you'd have to do better than to point to one of the multitudinous gags to indicate its lame humor. Not that I even see anything inherently wrong with using IBS as a point for laughs. As for miscalculated performances, if you want to get into a row about this, without specifics to address, all I can say is that you're a hundred percent wrong (if we're going to be using objective terms like "calculation"). I'm sad that you don't remember much about it, because I would like to, through dialogue, emphasize the film's strengths, which are precisely in its imaginative gags and impeccable characterizations (remember, this is a cartoon). I would also add its visual sumptuousness, atmosphere, and strange fibers of moral explication. I think it's great.

But I do agree with Q: Mackendrick's is better.

[Amnesiac]

Also Raising Arizona is one of the Coens better films.

Really? From their oeuvre, I've seen O Brother, Where Art Thou, The Big Lebowski, Miller's Crossing, Fargo, No Country For Old Men and most recently, Burn After Reading. I'm not including The Ladykillers because it has been far too long since I last saw that one. Even so, all the other ones I listed are leaps and bounds ahead of Raising Arizona.

I actually just posted about how little I thought of Arizona in the Burn After Reading thread:


Just as a side-note, I happened to watch Raising Arizona for the first time after coming from home from this one last night. And, yeah, I really didn't think that much of it aside from a few points of mild interest, viz. an unashamedly campy premonition of Anton Chigurh and Nicholas Cage having a nightmare about Ghost Rider. A bit too wacky, I guess.

And I think it was because most of the characters were extremely dim, unlikable, self-interested and full of faulty logic and reasoning. But, I guess someone could make the same argument for the characters in Burn After Reading ... yet, it works for that film. Why? Is it because no one steals babies and packages of Huggies in the Coens' latest? I don't know. While Burn's characters may be dim, and perhaps occasionally unlikable, they never really tip over the precipice into true irritation ... there's always a certain bemusement and symapthy to be had. Their foibles are funnier and more interesting. I guess it has a lot to do with what NYTimes reviewer Manohla Dargis notes about Burn; that it centers around "three favorite American (and Hollywood) preoccupations: money, sex and self." Well, Arizona has two of those things - did it need more sex? Either way, I can understand greed, a propensity for self-delusion, and over-all witlessness as defining character traits ... but when these traits are being exercised by Cage and Holly Hunter's characters in Arizona, it got a bit grating. Petty convenience store robberies and whacked out plans to steal people's babies and some implacable and campy Hell's Angels biker? None of this struck a chord with me.

I mean, these are both films about desperate, wanting, unintelligent people who are prone to regression and bad habits. And yet I enjoy what one group of dolts is doing over the other. Better characterization? The absence of Burn's well-choreographed jumble of characters, story-lines, incidents, coincidences, and serendipity? I guess there's something appealing about Burn's wider canvas. Maybe that's a big part of it.

Or maybe I would have been easier on it had I watched it before their latest offering.

In case you don't want to read my little cross-post there, the verdict is basically this: I really didn't find much to like about it. Still, I'm curious to hear what validates it as top-tier Coens fare for you.

[Sven]

Forgive me, Spinal, for invoking your words, but nearly everything I want to say, you say here:


The Coen Brothers first comedy, Raising Arizona, is still their funniest film to date. With delightfully outrageous commitment, Nicolas Cage, Holly Hunter, John Goodman, Frances McDormand and the rest of the cast lay out the groundwork for a comedic style that ranks among the most popular in cinema today. Borrowing liberally from Preston Sturges and then layering on a modern sensibility, the Coen Brothers pack their film with wonderfully outrageous characters and situations, yet ground it all in genuine human emotions and desires. The Coens get loads of help from a few key contributors in establishing their delirious comedic rhythm. The mood is established early on with Carter Burwell’s half-yodeling theme promising a comedy that will be the very definition of ‘rollicking’. Editor Michael Miller pieces together an expository opening that provides more laughs before the credits roll than most comedies have in their entire run-time. Cinematographer Barry Sonnenfeld takes us down grocery aisles and through baby nurseries, punctuating the more active sequences with bold, yet carefully orchestrated motion. Watching all of these elements come together is to watch the creation of Coen comedy, one of the more delightful pleasures for the modern cinemagoer.

There is no question that the Coens have requested performances somewhat divorced from reality; however, these exaggerations spring from a core truth that is essential to making the comedy work. Let me offer an example. Through desperation at not being able to produce a child themselves, H.I. and Ed (a recovering criminal and a former cop respectively) plot to abduct one quintuplet away from the Arizonas, a wealthy family that has already been blessed with more than they can appreciate – or “more than they can handle” as Ed puts it. With severe coaxing, Ed convinces H.I. to break into the Arizonas’ residence and return with a toddler. While the farcical antics within the mansion are wonderfully executed, it is Ed’s reaction afterwards, holding the child in her arms that makes the scene. Hunter starts with very real feelings that can overwhelm a new parent and then ratchets them up to a comedic level than surprises us, yet feels appropriate within the film’s established tone. Another such moment occurs when Frances McDormand’s character, Dot, drills the new parents on the preparations they have made for the child’s future. It comes within the context of an outrageous comedy; yet no drama that I have seen has captured that sense of exhaustion and worry quite so well. H.I. and Ed are characters driven by greed, yes, but also by the notion of an America beyond their grasp and symbolized by the loudmouthed businessman, Nathan Arizona.

[Morris Schæffer]

Instead of doing anything pressing or responsible today, of which I have a bajillion, I watched Burn After Reading (excellent), The Ladykillers (ecstatic), Fury (masterful), and Die Hard 2 (ridiculous).

Great day indeed.

Potentially so, but stuntwork and FX are both masterful and so what I saw was something intensely thrilling and climactic. I think it's one of the great sequels.

[Amnesiac]

The Coen Brothers first comedy, Raising Arizona, is still their funniest film to date.

What about The Big Lebowski? I also got more laughs out of Burn After Reading, and that wasn't even as committed a comedy as Lebowski.


The Coen Brothers pack their film with wonderfully outrageous characters and situations, yet ground it all in genuine human emotions and desires.

Genuine human emotions and desires? Check. Outrageously annoying characters and dull situations? Check.



The Coens get loads of help from a few key contributors in establishing their delirious comedic rhythm. The mood is established early on with Carter Burwell’s half-yodeling theme promising a comedy that will be the very definition of ‘rollicking’. Editor Michael Miller pieces together an expository opening that provides more laughs before the credits roll than most comedies have in their entire run-time.

Yeah, the opening was pretty good. I guess I could concede to that ... even if I find this statement a bit hyperbolic. It established the tone fine enough, but it wasn't exactly a laugh-riot paragon of comedy.


Cinematographer Barry Sonnenfeld takes us down grocery aisles and through baby nurseries, punctuating the more active sequences with bold, yet carefully orchestrated motion.

Really? ...



There is no question that the Coens have requested performances somewhat divorced from reality; however, these exaggerations spring from a core truth that is essential to making the comedy work. Let me offer an example. Through desperation at not being able to produce a child themselves, H.I. and Ed (a recovering criminal and a former cop respectively) plot to abduct one quintuplet away from the Arizonas, a wealthy family that has already been blessed with more than they can appreciate – or “more than they can handle” as Ed puts it. With severe coaxing, Ed convinces H.I. to break into the Arizonas’ residence and return with a toddler. While the farcical antics within the mansion are wonderfully executed, it is Ed’s reaction afterwards, holding the child in her arms that makes the scene. Hunter starts with very real feelings that can overwhelm a new parent and then ratchets them up to a comedic level than surprises us, yet feels appropriate within the film’s established tone.

Yeah, I can't say I really felt the same way about Hunter holding the child. I guess there was a balance of heart and comedy, but it didn't do much to compel my interest or admiration. I guess it was because I couldn't sidle up to the idea of these bovine folks merrily stealing someone's kid and scuttling over to their trailer park home. There's an absurdity there to appreciate if you're in the right mood, but it also left me feeling a little cold in regards to these people. I couldn't buy it. It was too out there, their reasoning and justification too petty, their attitudes too dimwitted. I did not enjoy what they were doing. I guess there's an understandable sentiment there, an inexorable desire for the completion of the family unit, but it's not exactly potent. It's buried underneath these harebrained shenanigans and characters who push the boundary on annoyance, similar to the cast of My Name Is Earl.


Another such moment occurs when Frances McDormand’s character, Dot, drills the new parents on the preparations they have made for the child’s future. It comes within the context of an outrageous comedy; yet no drama that I have seen has captured that sense of exhaustion and worry quite so well.

What?



H.I. and Ed are characters driven by greed, yes, but also by the notion of an America beyond their grasp and symbolized by the loudmouthed businessman, Nathan Arizona.

This is a nice thought. But it doesn't save the movie from meandering in a dull subplot involving two escape convict bafoons whose tactlessness and stupidity quickly become more irritating than amusing. And punctuating their ridiculous attitudes with tiresome and cliche gags like 'where's the baby?!' doesn't exactly provide a saving grace. I can't excuse the film for not sticking to a coherent sense of realistic continuity, either. That whole Hell's Angels biker thing really felt a bit too silly. Regardless of whether it is intentional camp which fits in with the 'rollicking' energy of the film, I still found it to be one of Arizona's questionable excesses. Same goes for the contrived dialogue from Nathan Arizona when they decide to return Junior. And, not really caring for these dimwitted characters or their attitudes, I couldn't even bother to get invested in the film's closing moments ...I can applaud Cage's dream for offering an intriguing ambivalence and an effectively elegiac tone, but it's still centered around two characters who were always more grating than ingratiating.

[Spinal]

There is nothing that gives me greater joy than seeing a point by point rebuttle to something that I have posted. Gosh, I love that.

[Sven]

There is nothing that gives me greater joy than seeing a point by point rebuttle to something that I have posted. Gosh, I love that.

I feel guilty now. :cry:

[Amnesiac]

There is nothing that gives me greater joy than seeing a point by point rebuttle to something that I have posted. Gosh, I love that.

Heh. Sorry?

Since you didn't voluntarily post that, I guess I should have waited for your consent before diving in. Or ...something.

[Watashi]

Die Hard 2 better than Die Hard?

Only on Motherfucking Matchcut

[The Mike]

I just saw Raising Arizona for the first time this week. Had I seen it before Blood Simple, Miller's Crossing, Fargo, The Big Lebowski, O Brother Where Art Thou?, The Man Who Wasn't There, and No Country for Old Men; I'd have thought it was among the Coens' best works.

[Qrazy]

Really? From their oeuvre, I've seen O Brother, Where Art Thou, The Big Lebowski, Miller's Crossing, Fargo, No Country For Old Men and most recently, Burn After Reading. I'm not including The Ladykillers because it has been far too long since I last saw that one. Even so, all the other ones I listed are leaps and bounds ahead of Raising Arizona.

I actually just posted about how little I thought of Arizona in the Burn After Reading thread:



In case you don't want to read my little cross-post there, the verdict is basically this: I really didn't find much to like about it. Still, I'm curious to hear what validates it as top-tier Coens fare for you.

Because I find it bears most of their strengths (dark humor, almost cartoonish stylistic and narrative sensibilities as well as a light touch and joy for filmmaking) and fewer of their weaknesses (pseudo-profundity, hollow metaphors, and moments when their dark humor veers into cruel territory). I have trouble taking the brothers seriously so I appreciate it when they don't take themselves too seriously.

[Amnesiac]

Because I find it bears most of their strengths (dark humor, almost cartoonish stylistic and narrative sensibilities as well as a light touch and joy for filmmaking) and fewer of their weaknesses (pseudo-profundity, hollow metaphors, and moments when their dark humor veers into cruel territory). I have trouble taking the brothers seriously so I appreciate it when they don't take themselves too seriously.

I can see the cartoonish stylistic and narrative sensibilities and the light touch. I think some of that might have rubbed me the wrong way this time around. But, regardless, I think I can understand (but not agree with) your last point - you prefer the Coens' output to be more silly and irreverent because you don't think they're capable of effectively reaching anything higher than that.

I can totally see the cruel territory they tend to tread on, coating many aspects of their films with a certain sadistic delight. Still, I'm of the mind that such cruel territory serves a purpose greater than downright mean-spiritedness.

But now I'm really curious about which hollow metaphors you've encountered in their films?

[Qrazy]

I can see the cartoonish stylistic and narrative sensibilities and the light touch. I think some of that might have rubbed me the wrong way this time around. But, regardless, I think I can understand (but not agree with) your last point - you prefer the Coens' output to be more silly and irreverent because you don't think they're capable of effectively reaching anything higher than that.

I can totally see the cruel territory they tend to tread on, coating many aspects of their films with a certain sadistic delight. Still, I'm of the mind that such cruel territory serves a purpose greater than downright mean-spiritedness.

But now I'm really curious about which hollow metaphors you've encountered in their films?

Perhaps hollow wasn't precisely the right term... more so vague and open ended metaphors which paint with too wide a brush and lack the thematic precision which they formally possess... I'm thinking specifically of some dream sequence moments in The Big Lebowski, a bit of Hudsucker Proxy, and elements of Barton Fink. I don't think the metaphors in any of these cases are meaningless, they just lack precision in my book.

[Qrazy]

I can see the cartoonish stylistic and narrative sensibilities and the light touch. I think some of that might have rubbed me the wrong way this time around. But, regardless, I think I can understand (but not agree with) your last point - you prefer the Coens' output to be more silly and irreverent because you don't think they're capable of effectively reaching anything higher than that.

I can totally see the cruel territory they tend to tread on, coating many aspects of their films with a certain sadistic delight. Still, I'm of the mind that such cruel territory serves a purpose greater than downright mean-spiritedness.

But now I'm really curious about which hollow metaphors you've encountered in their films?

I dunno it just doesn't seem all that purposive to me to shoot up a cow or to create a whiny mafia boss son for the sole purpose of slapping him around.

[Rowland]

Mind Hunters > Die Hard 2

[MadMan]

Burn After Reading was utterly hilarious, and really awesome to boot. JK Simmons and Brad Pitt pretty much stole the entire film, and I have to say that Pitt's performance was really great. "Your shit is secure" had the entire audience (myself included) in stitches.

[The Mike]

I'm checking out Burn After Reading tonight. Following it up by catching The Hoff as Nick Fury: Agent of SHIELD on TV tonight! Talk about double feature city! :pritch:

[Spinal]

There's a Burn After Reading thread. Stop being lazy asses. ;)

[MadMan]

There's a Burn After Reading thread. Stop being lazy asses. ;)I will post there too. Eventually :P

[Spinal]

Yeah, the opening was pretty good. I guess I could concede to that ... even if I find this statement a bit hyperbolic. It established the tone fine enough, but it wasn't exactly a laugh-riot paragon of comedy.


This is really the only bit I want to respond to. I think for the rest of it I am content with my argument as phrased. The statement in question was not hyperbolic. When I watch the film, I find more to laugh at in the masterful opening sequence, one of my favorite stretches of film ever, than I do in most comedies I watch. That is not something I said (this blurb was taken from my top 100 thread) in order to unjustifiably inflate the film's worth. That is literal truth from my perspective. Your results may vary.

[Amnesiac]

This is really the only bit I want to respond to. I think for the rest of it I am content with my argument as phrased. The statement in question was not hyperbolic. When I watch the film, I find more to laugh at in the masterful opening sequence, one of my favorite stretches of film ever, than I do in most comedies I watch. That is not something I said (this blurb was taken from my top 100 thread) in order to unjustifiably inflate the film's worth. That is literal truth from my perspective. Your results may vary.

Fair enough. From your perspective, it would understandably be literal truth.

I shouldn't have tried to pull the objective card on something like comedic taste. I didn't find much to laugh at in Arizona, you did. As I noted, I also like the opening, though it left me anticipating a better film than the one I got. As for choosing not to touch on any of my other points beyond your original argument, I'll just accept that it's an indication that we simply of wholly different perspectives when it comes to this film. Which is fine.

At least I have Ebert on my side. ;)

[Morris Schæffer]

Die Hard 2 better than Die Hard?

Only on Motherfucking Matchcut

Uh no, definitely not. Who said that?


Mind Hunters > Die Hard 2

I suppose a door was opened and you had to enter. Now get the hell out.;)

[Grouchy]

At least I have Ebert on my side. ;)
Which is good because?

Double feature of European zombie movies this weekend:

First off, [REC], which was one of the coolest theater experiences ever. It's a movie that succesfully ass-rapes Cloverfield and Diary of the Dead, using the first-person camera thing to its full advantage. However, I think it's so much better than these two movies mainly because it has a strong set of characters who provide tension, comic relief and humanity to the plot. People react to the zombie epidemic like they would in real life - there are no heroes, no heroines, there's only chaos and madness. Also, the final scene is one of the most memorable in recent Horror, featuring a scary fucking creature achieved through incredible make-up, a night vision lens and the acting talents of Javier Botet, an unbelievably tall actor, as the sinister Niña de Medeiros. This one was made for the theater experience, with its shared laughs and loud noises.

Then I watched 28 Weeks Later on DVD. Keeping on with the stylistic choices of the Boyle movie, this is all shot in a very shaky camera style, combined with some sequences that have the feel of some post-modern videoclip. John Carlyle is the acting milestone of the movie, and his character plagued with survivor's guilt the most interesting part of the story by far. I found most of the film by contrast a bit of a bore. The CGI looked ridiculous, particularly during the bombing, and it all had a cheap TV feel to it. However, I gotta recognize it was as gritty and violent as the original. It's a worthy sequel, but being not that big of a fan of 28 Days Later, I find it even harder to get too worked up about the sequel.

[The Mike]

First off, [REC], which was one of the coolest theater experiences ever. It's a movie that succesfully ass-rapes Cloverfield and Diary of the Dead.

If I'm not mistaken (and if I am, IMDB also is), this premiered before those movies.

I hope it gets here, but odds are the remake will beat it to our theaters.

[Kurosawa Fan]

[REC] sucked. Hard. It was every lame zombie cliche wrapped into one film. Lacked any good scares or tension. Boring to the end, even the lame chicken lady.

[EvilShoe]

Reign over Me is one lame movie. Feels more like a collection of the greatest manipulative moments in movies combined. That trial scene was cringe-worthy.

Bob Dylan's hair deserved better.

[Grouchy]

If I'm not mistaken (and if I am, IMDB also is), this premiered before those movies.

I hope it gets here, but odds are the remake will beat it to our theaters.
Yes it premiered almost a year before, but it's the same concept.

And how is it clichéd? I mean, name the clichés.

[The Mike]

Yes it premiered almost a year before, but it's the same concept.

My point was simply that it can't ass-rape what isn't available to be ass-raped. Unless they were ass-raped while in the cinematic womb, but that seems difficult, and unpleasant to visualize.

[MadMan]

Invasion of the Body Snatchers (Siegel, 1956) **1/2Thoughts? :|

[Spinal]

Thoughts? :|

Major problem is lack of internal logic. Characters frequently leap to conclusions that they shouldn't be able to make unless they were in on the screenwriter's scenario. Example: my uncle is acting strange. Instead of thinking that my uncle is unwell or mentally unstable, I am convinced that it is not my uncle. We don't really get a good sense of why the characters leap to this belief given the information that they have. There are several instances of this where events occur or conclusions are reached for exposition purposes and not through any logical progression. Consequently, the film lacks the one thing it needs most: tension. Acting is generally poor despite a handful of nifty shots. The reputation of the film's allegorical relevance struck me as overblown. I did not find it to be a film with a compelling exploration of themes.

[soitgoes...]

Major problem is lack of internal logic. Characters frequently leap to conclusions that they shouldn't be able to make unless they were in on the screenwriter's scenario. Example: my uncle is acting strange. Instead of thinking that my uncle is unwell or mentally unstable, I am convinced that it is not my uncle. We don't really get a good sense of why the characters leap to this belief given the information that they have. There are several instances of this where events occur or conclusions are reached for exposition purposes and not through any logical progression. Consequently, the film lacks the one thing it needs most: tension. Acting is generally poor despite a handful of nifty shots. The reputation of the film's allegorical relevance struck me as overblown. I did not find it to be a film with a compelling exploration of themes.This leads me to believe that you are not Spinal.

[Sven]

You should really check out the remake, Spinal, if you have not. It's ten times better. Hypnotic. Scary. I think you'd like it.

[Spinal]

This leads me to believe that you are not Spinal.

Sorry, guys. My 6-year got on the computer and was fooling around with my account. Let me see what he did while he was on here ...

"Lack of internal logic ..."
"Poor acting ..."
"Overblown allegorical relevance ..."

Hmmmm, well I agree with all that. Looks like the boy is getting ice cream tonight after all.

[Watashi]

You should really check out the remake, Spinal, if you have not. It's ten times better. Hypnotic. Scary. I think you'd like it.

http://blogs.indiewire.com/reverseshot/archives/bodysnatchjwera23.jpg

[Spinal]

You should really check out the remake, Spinal, if you have not. It's ten times better. Hypnotic. Scary. I think you'd like it.

I intend to. Definitely seems like a prime candidate for a remake.

[The Mike]

I've never seen what people prefer about the remake of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. It's really not that interesting at all thanks to being overlong, it has Veronica Cartwright being the most annoying thing ever, and the ending is telegraphed and not as cool as it's believed to be.

I think I even prefer the Abel Ferrara version to this one.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I really enjoyed Before Night Falls, maybe even more than the Diving Bell and the Butterfly. Both tackle the idea of the mind as a freeing agent, and personally, in Before Night Falls the social and political context makes for a far richer and more interesting thesis. Both are beautifully made though, and I'm looking forward to seeing his Lou Reed concert film, and whatever else he has in the works.

[Raiders]

Major problem is lack of internal logic. Characters frequently leap to conclusions that they shouldn't be able to make unless they were in on the screenwriter's scenario. Example: my uncle is acting strange. Instead of thinking that my uncle is unwell or mentally unstable, I am convinced that it is not my uncle. We don't really get a good sense of why the characters leap to this belief given the information that they have. There are several instances of this where events occur or conclusions are reached for exposition purposes and not through any logical progression. Consequently, the film lacks the one thing it needs most: tension. Acting is generally poor despite a handful of nifty shots. The reputation of the film's allegorical relevance struck me as overblown. I did not find it to be a film with a compelling exploration of themes.

But don't the others initially believe it to be mental problems until proven wrong? I mean, why must a character respond logically and reasonably to all situations? I think the real world has proven many times over people don't react the way we think they ought to. And this being a sci-fi film, of course their absurd fears turn out correct.

I really can't imagine this film spending all the necessary exposition time for everyone's paranoia to be properly and medically examined before the shit hits the fan, so to speak. What a drag that would be.

[soitgoes...]

Winterbottom's 9 Songs was bad. Sex scene. Cut away to music concert. Repeat until end. Oh and add some Antarctica reflection time to give the film the added depth it needs to be considered arty. If I could boil down any meaningful relationship down to just sex and going to concerts, I'd punch myself it the face for wasting so much of my time, let alone reflect on it while drilling for core samples. Pun may or may not be intended.

[Ezee E]

Winterbottom's 9 Songs was bad. Sex scene. Cut away to music concert. Repeat until end. Oh and add some Antarctica reflection time to give the film the added depth it needs to be considered arty. If I could boil down any meaningful relationship down to just sex and going to concerts, I'd punch myself it the face for wasting so much of my time, let alone reflect on it while drilling for core samples. Pun may or may not be intended.
You nailed it. Horrible movie.