28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[DrewG]

So much that you had to stop it and tell us?

Was taking a break to eat heh. Figured I'd post. Didn't think it really mattered, unless you were joking with that post.

I just finished and really thought it was pretty good, reminded me of why I like The Thing, movies that are just relentless with moral stuff and intense horror/"it's quiet, too quiet" sequences. Fun, depressing, intense movie.

[Dead & Messed Up]

The Rapture just spanked me soundly. There's a sequence with "Hark the Herald Angel Sings" that I can't get out of my head.

[Qrazy]

Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs was pretty fucked up.

[Raiders]

Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs was pretty fucked up.

Indeed. I'm a big fan of it even in spite of its obvious racial stereotypes. It was an entry in my now defunct short animation thread.

[Ezee E]

Did I miss anything?

[Lucky]

The Ruins might have even been worse than Hostel. I'm still debating.

[dreamdead]

Ray's They Live by Night is probably best appreciated in how it traces its pulp origins, becoming something that is essentially a defeatist noir (hmm, is there any other kind of noir?) yet still bequeaths a sense of hope for the future vis-a-vis the regenerative prospect of birth and grace. It follows the generic conventions nicely, but I rather love the slow rise of the offscreen train during the climax, which feels like quintessential Ray and which parallels Bowie's growing fears. That is, it's very much a shift from objectivity to subjectivity in my mind, and it's a move that seems to counter any attempt to villify Bowie and his criminal past; this shift instead villifies Mattie and those criminals who rat out those who are, ostensibly or otherwise, trying to make good.

[dreamdead]

Late Spring (Ozu, 1949) 76


Any thoughts on your response? Ozu is probably the filmmaker whose works I appreciate as the work settles more and more in my mind...

[Kurosawa Fan]

The Ruins might have even been worse than Hostel. I'm still debating.

Well, nice to know it matches up well with the book.

[Sven]

Well, nice to know it matches up well with the book.

I thought you liked the book.

[Yxklyx]

Moonstruck was surprisingly good.

[lovejuice]

Moonstruck was surprisingly good.

it is. it really is. :)

[Rowland]

I don't know if a comedy necessarily needs to "say" anything beyond the typical archetypal stuff, but that said, I think there is plenty going on in Smiley Face beneath all the farce. It's a very crafty little movie... and funny as hell. I voted for Faris as one of my Best Actress noms in the MC Awards.

[Spinal]

I voted for Faris as one of my Best Actress noms in the MC Awards.

She was fantastic. I probably would have voted for her too.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I thought you liked the book.

No. Not at all. I liked the first 100 pages. After that it dropped faster than a lead balloon (rep to the poster who gets the reference). It became monotonous, repetitive, redundant, wordy, redundant, boring, redundant, silly, annoying and redundant, to the point where I didn't even want to finish. It sucked. Hard. There was a good book in there somewhere, but it was lost in near 600 pages of pure snooze.

[Sven]

No. Not at all. I liked the first 100 pages. After that it dropped faster than a lead balloon (rep to the poster who gets the reference). It became monotonous, repetitive, redundant, wordy, redundant, boring, redundant, silly, annoying and redundant, to the point where I didn't even want to finish. It sucked. Hard. There was a good book in there somewhere, but it was lost in near 600 pages of pure snooze.

Sad. I just bought the book. Needed something exciting. Sigh.

Are you referencing Keith Moon's comment about Zep?

[Philosophe_rouge]

Anyone seen The Beales of Grey Gardens ? How does it differ from Grey Gardens, and is it worth checking out?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Sad. I just bought the book. Needed something exciting. Sigh.

Are you referencing Keith Moon's comment about Zep?

Boy did you pick the wrong book. Sorry bud.

And yes, though your post is a bit misleading. It was a critic who, when first hearing The New Yardbirds, said they'd fail like a lead balloon, and Keith Moon suggested they rename the band to Lead Zeppelin. Their manager Peter Grant told them to drop the 'a' in lead so us stupid Americans would pronounce it correctly.

[Melville]

Boy did you pick the wrong book. Sorry bud.

And yes, though your post is a bit misleading. It was a critic who, when first hearing The New Yardbirds, said they'd fail like a lead balloon, and Keith Moon suggested they rename the band to Lead Zeppelin. Their manager Peter Grant told them to drop the 'a' in lead so us stupid Americans would pronounce it correctly.
Here's a history of the phrase:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/lead-balloon.html

[Kurosawa Fan]

Here's a history of the phrase:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/lead-balloon.html

Hmm. I had remembered it as a critic. Guess my memory is failing me.

[Bosco B Thug]

The Ruins might have even been worse than Hostel. I'm still debating. Aw. Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have expected too much from this one.

No. Not at all. I liked the first 100 pages. After that it dropped faster than a lead balloon (rep to the poster who gets the reference). It became monotonous, repetitive, redundant, wordy, redundant, boring, redundant, silly, annoying and redundant, to the point where I didn't even want to finish. It sucked. Hard. There was a good book in there somewhere, but it was lost in near 600 pages of pure snooze. I won't say the book was great literature (it isn't), it definitely has a monotonous story and the writing is very dry, so I completely understand someone getting bored of it - I myself almost gave up on the book at the beginning - but I think it has things to appreciate: the story is uncompromising in its bleak monotony, and I really really liked his spare, rather harrowing look at his characters and their petty and banal psychologies, which the situation makes them see and grapple with. I thought a movie can really powerfully bring out the nuance of the book, but yeah, looks like it's just horror schlock, of course.

[balmakboor]

Late Spring (Ozu, 1949) 76


Interesting. If someone forced me to make a list of cinema's few perfect films, I would start with Late Spring along with A Man Escaped and Notorious.

On a different note: I finally got around to The Darjeeling Ltd today and it may just be the film that finally turns me around and makes me a Wes Anderson fan.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Aw. Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have expected too much from this one.
I won't say the book was great literature (it isn't), it definitely has a monotonous story and the writing is very dry, so I completely understand someone getting bored of it - I myself almost gave up on the book at the beginning - but I think it has things to appreciate: the story is uncompromising in its bleak monotony, and I really really liked his spare, rather harrowing look at his characters and their petty and banal psychologies, which the situation makes them see and grapple with. I thought a movie can really powerfully bring out the nuance of the book, but yeah, looks like it's just horror schlock, of course.

I agree that there were things to appreciate, but I think that made me dislike it all the more. It had such potential, and it was just wasted. Like I said, there's a good book in there somewhere, it just gets lost in all the blathering on that Smith did. I'm a big fan of A Simple Plan, so this was really disappointing.

[Qrazy]

Interesting. If someone forced me to make a list of cinema's few perfect films, I would start with Late Spring along with A Man Escaped and Notorious.


None of those would make my list, all middle tier works from their respective director's.

[Derek]

None of those would make my list, all middle tier works from their respective director's.

Never change your user name.

[Qrazy]

Never change your user name.

*shrug*

Balthazar, Pickpocket, Tokyo Story, Floating Weeds, Vertigo and Strangers on a Train are all much better films.

Maybe lower upper tier would have been a better description given how many films Hitchcock and Ozu have made.

[baby doll]

Interesting. If someone forced me to make a list of cinema's few perfect films, I would start with Late Spring along with A Man Escaped and Notorious.I love all those films, but I'm not sure "perfection" is necessarily the highest criteria by which we should judge a film. Maybe I'm just paranoid of formalism.

[Grouchy]

I LOVE the Val Lewton films.

Have you seen The Body Snatcher? That's one of my favorites.
No, I need to see it. It was made almost simultaneously with Isle. I have Bedlam, another Lewton/Karloff, ready to watch.

[MadMan]

I don't believe that a perfect film exists. There are films that are near perfect however.

[Melville]

I think I may have just seen the most charming movie ever made: Top Hat.

[monolith94]

Not a fan - I can't remember it, and I gave it a c-, apparently. Top Hat over Scarface???

[Melville]

Not a fan - I can't remember it, and I gave it a c-, apparently. Top Hat over Scarface???
Top Hat way over Scarface. The latter was good, and it was certainly ahead of its time in terms of technique, but Top Hat was floating on air. The comedy was charming, the musical numbers were charming, the performances were charming; the whole thing had me charmed.

[Yxklyx]

Top Hat way over Scarface. The latter was good, and it was certainly ahead of its time in terms of technique, but Top Hat was floating on air. The comedy was charming, the musical numbers were charming, the performances were charming; the whole thing had me charmed.

Am I wrong in thinking that Astaire's black-face dance in Swing Time is his best dance number ever?

[Melville]

Am I wrong in thinking that Astaire's black-face dance in Swing Time is his best dance number ever?
Top Hat was the first Astaire film I've seen. I'll check out Swing Time next.

[Derek]

Top Hat was the first Astaire film I've seen. I'll check out Swing Time next.

Top Hat is glorious (http://www.cinematicreflections.com/tophat.html). For some reason, I still haven't seen another Astaire film.

[DrewG]

I think I may have just seen the most charming movie ever made: Top Hat.

I do like it a lot, but at first the flurry of miscommunication began to grate me, as if they were making it a bit too obvious. Once the song and dance numbers got to be so damn charming I couldn't help but smile, I really forgot about this though.

[Melville]

I do like it a lot, but at first the flurry of miscommunication began to grate me, as if they were making it a bit too obvious. Once the song and dance numbers got to be so damn charming I couldn't help but smile, I really forgot about this though.
Yeah, they really dragged out that miscommunication as long as possible. Luckily the plot mostly served as a springboard for flying witticisms.

[DrewG]

Yeah, they really dragged out that miscommunication as long as possible. Luckily the plot mostly served as a springboard for flying witticisms.

I must say, I liked this film even more after I saw The Purple Rose of Cairo. Allen really uses the film's most memorable and heartwarming moment to a crushing irony in that great film.

[Melville]

Top Hat is glorious (http://www.cinematicreflections.com/tophat.html). For some reason, I still haven't seen another Astaire film.
Nice review, but I definitely didn't see any implications of sadness in Astaire's position. He seemed overjoyed at every turn of events, even when they foiled his plans, and outright amused by the inferior people all around him.

[Melville]

I must say, I liked this film even more after I saw The Purple Rose of Cairo. Allen really uses the film's most memorable and heartwarming moment to a crushing irony in that great film.
Yeah, that scene ties in pretty well with Derek's comments (in his review) about the contrast between the Depression and Astaire's glamorous world.

[DrewG]

Yeah, that scene ties in pretty well with Derek's comments (in his review) about the contrast between the Depression and Astaire's glamorous world.

I'm also working on something comparing the use of the glory and happiness of the musical with the sadness of real life:

In Dancer in the Dark von Trier wages a dark battle against the overwhelming ideology that musicals are made to be incessantly optimistic, cheery affairs. In actuality, von Trier acknowledges the ideal, almost utopian world view presented by these early American musicals when he films his character of Selma at the movies watching Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers sing and dance charmingly in The Band Wagon. The connotations for certain viewers will be the mishaps, miscommunications and redemption that always fall upon the two actors in their films together; famous films like Top Hat find a way to shrug off sexual promiscuity and mistrust with the glory of song and dance. This upbeat, life affirming idea of the American musical in the 1930’s is what presents Selma with the idea that America will be a land of opportunity and promise in 1964.

In the court scenes when Selma reserves the truth of the her misinterpreted situation (her being pegged as a Communist for example) there is a feeling as if she is holding back in hope of the inevitable happy ending of the musicals she worships about love and life. Even the prosecutor grilling Selma emphasizes her love for the musical has overtaken her attempt to embrace or understand the true America, a land of conflict and consequence. The rapidly swaying gauntlet of Dancer in the Dark for Selma is a guessing game between her increasingly desperate situation and her imagined world of perfection, a place free of problems. In this sense, von Trier turns the musical formula on its head, implying that this perfect life is not a tangible reality but rather a delusion for ignoring the harsh reality of living in America.

[balmakboor]

*shrug*

Balthazar, Pickpocket, Tokyo Story, Floating Weeds, Vertigo and Strangers on a Train are all much better films.

Maybe lower upper tier would have been a better description given how many films Hitchcock and Ozu have made.

I think you've named great films by each director, possibly the greatest. I think the three films I listed would be in the running for greatest by each as well. I listed them though because they are among the very few films where I feel everything works. Tokyo Story is the only film you listed that I would say that about.

[balmakboor]

I just finished watching Tsui Hark's The Blade and all I can say right now is WOW! That is one helluva great movie. Good night.

[Melville]

In this sense, von Trier turns the musical formula on its head, implying that this perfect life is not a tangible reality but rather a delusion for ignoring the harsh reality of living in America.
I actually think von Trier is a bit too overt, and much too overtly pessimistic, in hammering that point home.

[Qrazy]

I think you've named great films by each director, possibly the greatest. I think the three films I listed would be in the running for greatest by each as well. I listed them though because they are among the very few films where I feel everything works. Tokyo Story is the only film you listed that I would say that about.

Things (amongst others) that I find don't work well:

1. Notorious - Car scene
2. Late Spring - Bicycle scene
3. A Man Escaped - First car escape

All of these stutter and interrupt the flow of the films (I'm referring to execution, not original scene intent).

[DrewG]

I actually think von Trier is a bit too overt, and much too overtly pessimistic, in hammering that point home.

I touch on this a bit in the part I'm writing right now. I said that his upbringing (radical socialist parents who let him make ALL his own decisions as a child) was so expansive for someone so young that it ended up sheltering him, not freeing him. I say that his films are divisive because he is intense about being about crafting, manipulating and displaying emotions because cinema has always been an outlet where he can control them. This grates some people while others love it.

[Qrazy]

I actually think von Trier is a bit too overt, and much too overtly pessimistic, in hammering that point home.

Personally I think that's even an understatement. His generalized misanthropy is downright oppressive. But I guess there's something to be said for constantly recasting Jesus as an innocent (re: mentally ill), naive (re: stupid), fair maiden... it certainly allows him to put the ole martyr in uncompromising sexual positions that were less visually appealing in the King James edition.

[balmakboor]

Things (amongst others) that I find don't work well:

1. Notorious - Car scene
2. Late Spring - Bicycle scene
3. A Man Escaped - First car escape

All of these stutter and interrupt the flow of the films (I'm referring to execution, not original scene intent).

Was it a conscious effort that you listed my favorite scene from each? No kidding. (One of my favorites from A Man Escaped anyway.)

[Melville]

Personally I think that's even an understatement. His generalized misanthropy is downright oppressive. But I guess there's something to be said for constantly recasting Jesus as an innocent (re: mentally ill), naive (re: stupid), fair maiden... it certainly allows him to put the ole martyr in uncompromising sexual positions that were less visually appealing in the King James edition.
Heh. I think his use of that structure was very powerful in Breaking the Waves, and his technique was so wonderful in Dogville that it overcame the overstated pessimism, but Dancer in the Dark just seemed to be beating me over the head with the misfortune of its heroine.

[Qrazy]

I say that his films are divisive because he is intense about being about crafting, manipulating and displaying emotions because cinema has always been an outlet where he can control them. This grates some people while others love it.

I can't speak for all dissenters, but it's not his unyielding control that grates me. Much like Boriska the bellmaker, he is able to craft a unique and beautiful bell, but unlike the boy, his bell rings false.

[Qrazy]

Heh. I think his use of that structure was very powerful in Breaking the Waves, and his technique was so wonderful in Dogville that it overcame the overstated pessimism, but Dancer in the Dark just seemed to be beating me over the head with the misfortune of its heroine.

Blind people always finish last.

[DrewG]

Heh. I think his use of that structure was very powerful in Breaking the Waves, and his technique was so wonderful in Dogville that it overcame the overstated pessimism, but Dancer in the Dark just seemed to be beating me over the head with the misfortune of its heroine.

Something I find interesting, if not odd, between Breaking the Waves and Dancer in the Dark:

I find it odd that Breaking the Waves ends with such direct, visual...I guess you could call it "optimism" with the bell ringing in the sky as Jan smiles. Dancer in the Dark however is just that title card on top of the screen that says “They say it's the last song. They don't know us, you see. It's only the last song if we let it be.” Then the camera goes up and out the roof, the EXACT camera motion that Selma hated about musicals. But she's dead...so she wasn't alive when it happened. So does the title card make it optimistic? Does the final camera movement make it pessimistic?

I always have these von Trier debates in my head haha.

[Melville]

I can't speak for all dissenters, but it's not his unyielding control that grates me. Much like Boriska the bellmaker, he is able to craft a unique and beautiful bell, but unlike the boy, his bell rings false.
To me, his rigorously constructed gloom is so rigorous in its gloominess that it doesn't even seem to be trying to control the viewers emotions. It's like he's building a monument to noble suffering on a foundation of humanity's most base traits, and we can take it or leave it.

Edit: I guess Dogville kind of switches that up a bit, what with the murderous rampage at the end.

[Melville]

Something I find interesting, if not odd, between Breaking the Waves and Dancer in the Dark:

I find it odd that Breaking the Waves ends with such direct, visual...I guess you could call it "optimism" with the bell ringing in the sky as Jan smiles. Dancer in the Dark however is just that title card on top of the screen that says “They say it's the last song. They don't know us, you see. It's only the last song if we let it be.” Then the camera goes up and out the roof, the EXACT camera motion that Selma hated about musicals. But she's dead...so she wasn't alive when it happened. So does the title card make it optimistic? Does the final camera movement make it pessimistic?

I always have these von Trier debates in my head haha.
I have no memory of the final scene in Dancer in the Dark, so I'm not sure.

[Qrazy]

Was it a conscious effort that you listed my favorite scene from each? No kidding. (One of my favorites from A Man Escaped anyway.)

I'll pare it down to individual shots rather than full scenes, because it's a few individual moments which destroy the scenes for me.

1. A Man Escaped (the running out, gun shots, handcuff, hit with gun)... it reminds me of another moment I hate in Mouchette... the rolling down the hill suicide. Both moments where the minimalism is pushed too far for me and becomes banality, but in such a silly way... the car seduction in Balthazar was right on the edge of this as well, but managed to stay afloat.

2. Late Spring (bluescreen bike riding frontal mid-shot), while I'd probably be less bothered by this in another film, here with Ozu's focus on elevating the mundane, the plasticness of this moment in a film with such a focus, poisons the entire scene and turns it into something completely insipid.

3. Notorious (another bluescreen stupidity) - So visually irrelevant to the story and simply monotonous, I wanted to fast forward.

[DrewG]

"A film should be like a stone in your shoe...it'd be boring if you made something people couldn't feel at all." -Lars von Trier

I guess it is a very big stone for Dancer in the Dark then.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I'm pretty sure I agree with Qrazy on the Trier, but my mind is twisted today and I don't understand much. I just know I think I agree.

[Eleven]

So The Bitter Tea of General Yen is a juicy slab of pre-code Sternbergian romantic melodrama, courtesy of...wait for it...Frank Capra. One of his most beautiful films and, like Lost Horizon, one that benefits from an earthbound exoticism tempered by the shroud of fate. It features a toughminded but naively beautiful Stanwyck performance; Swedish actor Nils Asther is a sensitive and mysterious General Yen, a heartthrob doppelganger to Warner Oland's Chang in Shanghai Express. There's some evocative scenes, of execution, of panic, and especially of the penultimate moment eluded to in the title. Close to being my favorite Capra flick now.

[Philosophe_rouge]

So The Bitter Tea of General Yen is a juicy slab of pre-code Sternbergian romantic melodrama, courtesy of...wait for it...Frank Capra. One of his most beautiful films and, like Lost Horizon, one that benefits from an earthbound exoticism tempered by the shroud of fate. It features a toughminded but naively beautiful Stanwyck performance; Swedish actor Nils Asther is a sensitive and mysterious General Yen, a heartthrob doppelganger to Warner Oland's Chang in Shanghai Express. There's some evocative scenes, of execution, of panic, and especially of the penultimate moment eluded to in the title. Close to being my favorite Capra flick now.
I haven't even heard of this until now, but I'll be checking it out ASAP. Pre-code + Stanwyck is enough to get me to see it
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/ScreaminJayHawkins/sd/vlcsnap-1725336.jpg

[DrewG]

Meh, I'm so indifferent on Stanwyck and I feel like I'm the only person that feels that way. Even though The Lady Eve had my man-crush Henry Fonda in it, I just couldn't stand her in that movie. I also, and this sounds odd, just don't like the way she looks at all, I really don't find her attractive in the slightest. Maybe some of the things she says in Double Indemnity, but that's kind of another story I guess.

[Yxklyx]

Songs from the Second Floor is the best movie to watch after breaking up with your woman.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Meh, I'm so indifferent on Stanwyck and I feel like I'm the only person that feels that way. Even though The Lady Eve had my man-crush Henry Fonda in it, I just couldn't stand her in that movie. I also, and this sounds odd, just don't like the way she looks at all, I really don't find her attractive in the slightest. Maybe some of the things she says in Double Indemnity, but that's kind of another story I guess.
I'm not a fan of the Lady Eve or Indemnity, but I love me some Stanwyck. She's far from conventionally attractive, but I like her strength and expression. It's difficult to explain why I like her so much, she strikes me as being so incredibly real... I don't know.

[Eleven]

Meh, I'm so indifferent on Stanwyck...

And, you lost me. Ball of Fire is where it's at.

[Yxklyx]

And, you lost me. Ball of Fire is where it's at.

In case you're wondering - that's Stanwyck in my signature.

P.S. Click on My Movie Page to get a fuller view.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Ball of Fire is pretty delicious, I love the linguistics and that dress! When Stanwyck is standing there, and the light bouncing off shines into the camera, I can't help wowing. Plus it has Dana Andrews. It's Rouge-approved.

[MadMan]

Raiders was right about Sunrise(1927) being a great film. I may have to take some time to flesh out some decent thoughts.

[Stay Puft]

According to imdb, some fans of Dark City prefer to mute the opening of the film, until Sutherland is on screen. Does anybody actually know someone who does this? Or heard of this? It strikes me as a terribly silly and misguided thing to do. Random trivia, I suppose, but its randomness perplexed me enough to type this post and push submit.

Anyways, it's an interesting movie. I liked it.

[Rowland]

According to imdb, some fans of Dark City prefer to mute the opening of the film, until Sutherland is on screen. Does anybody actually know someone who does this? Or heard of this? It strikes me as a terribly silly and misguided thing to do. Random trivia, I suppose, but its randomness perplexed me enough to type this post and push submit.

Anyways, it's an interesting movie. I liked it.The opening monologue by Sutherland was forced onto the movie after test audiences complained about it being too confusing. The opening basically spells out everything that should be a mystery for the first two acts of the movie. Proyas has always wanted to release a director's cut, and excising that opening would be one of the changes. So no, I don't think it's that silly or misguided.

[Stay Puft]

The opening monologue by Sutherland was forced onto the movie after test audiences complained about it being too confusing. The opening basically spells out everything that should be a mystery for the first two acts of the movie. Proyas has always wanted to release a director's cut, and excising that opening would be one of the changes. So no, I don't think it's that silly or misguided.

Oh man, but it works so well in retrospect. That's just hilarious. I love it.

[DavidSeven]

Did anyone bother to see Stop-Loss?

Do we have a name yet for this new genre of "define and publicize the issue" films (Blood Diamond, Hotel Rwanda, Rendition, etc.)? They definitely have archetypes and common aesthetics like Film Noir. It's just that the commonalities among these films are just all really boring.

[Rowland]

Collateral is dumber than I recalled (the GF and I were tearing it to shreds throughout), but it's also even more gorgeous than the fading imprints in my mind's eye led me to believe. Oh my god, is it beautiful to watch, possibly some of Mann's very best directorial work, which goes such a long way towards elevating the overly mediocre material.

[number8]

The opening monologue by Sutherland was forced onto the movie after test audiences complained about it being too confusing. The opening basically spells out everything that should be a mystery for the first two acts of the movie. Proyas has always wanted to release a director's cut, and excising that opening would be one of the changes. So no, I don't think it's that silly or misguided.

According to David Goyer, a director's cut is coming very soon.

[MadMan]

Collateral is dumber than I recalled (the GF and I were tearing it to shreds throughout), but it's also even more gorgeous than the fading imprints in my mind's eye led me to believe. Oh my god, is it beautiful to watch, possibly some of Mann's very best directorial work, which goes such a long way towards elevating the overly mediocre material.I think its a great film, and I consider the film to be fairly well made and smart, at least for the most of the film up to the finale, which is a mixed bag and I have some qualms with. I'm sure that chrisnu and I are probably the biggest fans of it here on the boards.

Aside from the dubbing and the film print itself which looks quite old I'm actually digging Contempt.

[Derek]

Aside from the dubbing and the film print itself which looks quite old I'm actually digging Contempt.

Oh god, I just checked it out and it's dubbed and pan-and-scan. WTF TCM? Fortunately, it's not exactly a rare film, but that makes the shoddy presentation all the more confusing.

[Rowland]

I think its a great film, and I consider the film to be fairly well made and smart, at least for the most of the film up to the finale, which is a mixed bag and I have some qualms with. I'm sure that chrisnu and I are probably the biggest fans of it here on the boards.Well, Mann's sophisticated visual artistry renders the material far smarter than it otherwise may have been, and he does this through strikingly cinematic means, which I applaud.

[Derek]

Collateral is dumber than I recalled (the GF and I were tearing it to shreds throughout), but it's also even more gorgeous than the fading imprints in my mind's eye led me to believe. Oh my god, is it beautiful to watch, possibly some of Mann's very best directorial work, which goes such a long way towards elevating the overly mediocre material.

That sounds about right. It's a mediocre script at best that's turned into a rather tense, exciting thriller almost solely through Mann's direction.

[Rowland]

Oh god, I just checked it out and it's dubbed and pan-and-scan. WTF TCM? Fortunately, it's not exactly a rare film, but that makes the shoddy presentation all the more confusing.Contempt in pan-and-scan? lolz

[MadMan]

Well, Mann's sophisticated visual artistry renders the material far smarter than it otherwise may have been, and he does this through strikingly cinematic means, which I applaud.Huh. Well this means since I own the film I'm going to have revisit a third time, only this time look more so at the dialogue and the screenplay than the visuals and the two awesome performances from Tom Cruise and Jamie Fox. Action and thrills wise the film rocks, and yes the visuals are absolutely stunning. LA at night time is downright beautiful and really sweet looking.


Oh god, I just checked it out and it's dubbed and pan-and-scan. WTF TCM? Fortunately, it's not exactly a rare film, but that makes the shoddy presentation all the more confusing.Really. Well damnit I'm too far into the film now to quit. March on I must.

[Duncan]

Ashes and Diamonds was excellent. Kind of makes me feel guilty for knowing so little about Poland despite being descended from there.

[Derek]

Contempt in pan-and-scan? lolz

I just feel bad for whoever's checking TCM's inbox come Monday morning.

[ledfloyd]

I just feel bad for whoever's checking TCM's inbox come Monday morning.
heh, i sent them an email about 5 minutes into the movie.

[Spinal]

Loved Beowulf. I don't understand the argument that it may as well be live action. There are countless moments in the film that are made possible (or at least much easier) due to the technology being employed. I mean, jeez, you have a nude viking who looks and sounds like Ray Winstone (except ultra-buff) wrestling around with a giant beast that eerily has Crispin Glover's frantic mannerisms. I don't know how else you accomplish something that awesome. I also really enjoyed how the film dealt with the idea of legend vs. history. Cool stuff. I thought it was loads of fun.

[Qrazy]

According to imdb, some fans of Dark City prefer to mute the opening of the film, until Sutherland is on screen. Does anybody actually know someone who does this? Or heard of this? It strikes me as a terribly silly and misguided thing to do. Random trivia, I suppose, but its randomness perplexed me enough to type this post and push submit.

Anyways, it's an interesting movie. I liked it.

I think I would have liked the film a lot more if I"d muted the entire thing. The incessant score is what killed it for me.

[Qrazy]

Collateral is dumber than I recalled (the GF and I were tearing it to shreds throughout), but it's also even more gorgeous than the fading imprints in my mind's eye led me to believe. Oh my god, is it beautiful to watch, possibly some of Mann's very best directorial work, which goes such a long way towards elevating the overly mediocre material.

Yeah, this sounds about right. It's too bad Mann seems to be on a downward spiral with idiotic scripts. Miami Vice was even worse, but again his direction makes the stupidity semi-bearable.

[Qrazy]

I just feel bad for whoever's checking TCM's inbox come Monday morning.

It's all kind of hilariously ironic given Godard's dislike at the time of shooting for Cinemascope... a dislike voiced by Lang's character in the finished film... "Cinemascope is only good for funerals and snakes."

[MadMan]

So Contempt is good stuff. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention (I felt like I was) but I didn't understand why Jack Palance and Brigitte Bardot died in that car crash. Was there a point to that I missed? Otherwise I enjoyed the movie despite feeling that at times the film dragged and wandered, and I noted the fact that the film sort of minored The Odyssey in some ways. I have to say I disagree with Fritz Lang that Odysses didn't want to get back to his wife during those 10 years. Last time I checked dude he had to battle the angry god Neptune plus other hairy elements to make it home. But who am I to argue with the guy who gave us Metropolis among other films? Heh. I noted how interesting it was that TCM showed this after Sunrise, considering its that film's polar opposite since it shows a relationship in full fledge decline and details its ultimate ruin. Featuring a decent amount of non-erotic nudity no less, and capped off with a final quite closing shot that doesn't mean much to me.

[Ezee E]

Rewatched Assassination of Jesse James... on Blu-Ray, and, while I'll stick to my guns of it easily being the best shot movie of the year, my opinion of it being a good-great movie has changed. It is nearly masterful the second time around, because every moment we see the influence of Jesse James on each character. The mannerisms by each actor is very interesting to watch.

I might need to buy this one now.

[balmakboor]

I'll pare it down to individual shots rather than full scenes, because it's a few individual moments which destroy the scenes for me.

1. A Man Escaped (the running out, gun shots, handcuff, hit with gun)... it reminds me of another moment I hate in Mouchette... the rolling down the hill suicide. Both moments where the minimalism is pushed too far for me and becomes banality, but in such a silly way... the car seduction in Balthazar was right on the edge of this as well, but managed to stay afloat.

2. Late Spring (bluescreen bike riding frontal mid-shot), while I'd probably be less bothered by this in another film, here with Ozu's focus on elevating the mundane, the plasticness of this moment in a film with such a focus, poisons the entire scene and turns it into something completely insipid.

3. Notorious (another bluescreen stupidity) - So visually irrelevant to the story and simply monotonous, I wanted to fast forward.

I appreciate your efforts, but you keep on merely highlighting what I admire most about these films. The way Bresson handles the scenes you mentioned in a very minimal and abstract way is precisely why I fell for them initially. I've since found many more reasons of course. Notorious is a high water mark for skillful and creative use of rear projection including the car scene. (No blue screen was used in Notorious.) If some form of process shot was used (most likely rear projection as well) in the bicycle scene in Late Spring, then it is so well executed that it never called attention to itself for me.

It was pointed out that "perfection" (whatever that means, we obviously don't agree to its terms) isn't a very good yardstick to use when comparing films and I totally agree. I would actually say that if I feel a film is perfect, then it wasn't taking enough risks. My favorite "film" right now is probably Berlin Alexanderplatz -- I would even claim it a contender for greatest/best film. But I would never dream of calling it perfect.

[Melville]

So The Bitter Tea of General Yen is a juicy slab of pre-code Sternbergian romantic melodrama
Man, I've wanted to see that for so damn long now. I need to start more actively seeking out the movies I've been wanting to see, rather than just picking up random movies that I've heard good things about.

[baby doll]

It's all kind of hilariously ironic given Godard's dislike at the time of shooting for Cinemascope... a dislike voiced by Lang's character in the finished film... "Cinemascope is only good for funerals and snakes."Did Godard dislike the 'Scope format? He had already shot one film in widescreen (Une femme est une femme [1961]) and would use it again in Pierrot le fou (1965). I think it would be more accurate to say that Lang didn't like shooting in widescreen (he only made one film in 'Scope, Moonfleet [1955], one of his better American films), and he's quoting himself in Le Mépris.

[baby doll]

Ashes and Diamonds was excellent. Kind of makes me feel guilty for knowing so little about Poland despite being descended from there.I don't think it's one of the great Wajda films. On the one hand, in terms of storytelling and craftsmanship, it represents an improvement on A Generation and Kanal, and I was excited to see a film dealing with the immediate aftermath of World War 2, when the democratic home army was fighting the communists, but given the context in which it was made, Wajda seems hesitant to criticize either side too strongly. In this regard, the starkness of the earlier films becomes a strength, while Ashes and Diamonds feels compromised. I suppose I'll have to see it again.

[Sycophant]

Interesting. If someone forced me to make a list of cinema's few perfect films, I would start with Late Spring along with A Man Escaped and Notorious.

On a different note: I finally got around to The Darjeeling Ltd today and it may just be the film that finally turns me around and makes me a Wes Anderson fan.The only other Ozu film I've seen is Tokyo Story. Compared to that film, Late Spring felt overlong and repetitive in and of itself. It was still quite good, but significantly less affecting than Tokyo Story.

And in another matter that will surely make me come off as insane, was anyone else wholly underwhelmed by Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter?

[Raiders]

The only other Ozu film I've seen is Tokyo Story. Compared to that film, Late Spring felt overlong and repetitive in and of itself. It was still quite good, but significantly less affecting than Tokyo Story.

And in another matter that will surely make me come off as insane, was anyone else wholly underwhelmed by Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter?

No. In fact, this entire post makes me weep.

[Sycophant]

No. In fact, this entire post makes me weep.
Yeah, sorry about that. I'm trying to figure out exactly why Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? didn't work for me. When I popped it in, I thought it would be a surefire thing.

[DavidSeven]

The only other Ozu film I've seen is Tokyo Story. Compared to that film, Late Spring felt overlong and repetitive in and of itself. It was still quite good, but significantly less affecting than Tokyo Story.

I agree. I liked Late Spring as well, but I'd rate it the lowest of the five or so Ozu films I've seen. It's nowhere near as powerful as Tokyo Story or Floating Weeds.

[DavidSeven]

We Own the Night (2007) 79

Nice. This one is still holding up well for me even though it felt kind of insubstantial at the time.

[balmakboor]

Anyone excited about seeing (or dreading) The Forbidden Kingdom? Every time I go to the theater, I stand and stare at that huge and gorgeous lobby display. Then I think, "Martial arts epic by the director of The Lion King. Hmm, could work I guess."

[Qrazy]

I appreciate your efforts, but you keep on merely highlighting what I admire most about these films. The way Bresson handles the scenes you mentioned in a very minimal and abstract way is precisely why I fell for them initially. I've since found many more reasons of course. Notorious is a high water mark for skillful and creative use of rear projection including the car scene. (No blue screen was used in Notorious.) If some form of process shot was used (most likely rear projection as well) in the bicycle scene in Late Spring, then it is so well executed that it never called attention to itself for me.


Yeah, I meant rear projection, my bad. My efforts are not to convince you why you are wrong to enjoy what you do, that would be absurd, but to explain to you why I feel as I do. Anyway, if those are the high water marks I'd hate to see the low water marks.

[Qrazy]

I was excited to see a film dealing with the immediate aftermath of World War 2, when the democratic home army was fighting the communists, but given the context in which it was made, Wajda seems hesitant to criticize either side too strongly.

That's like saying The Battle of Algiers refuses to criticize too strongly. Wajda didn't make the film to pick a side, but to explore the motivations and actions of each side and to expose the tragedy of the entire affair.

[balmakboor]

Anyway, if those are the high water marks I'd hate to see the low water marks.

Yeh, something I learned while watching the documentary on the Criterion dvd is just how much rear-projection was used. It's everywhere. It made me wish Hitchcock had used it during the "shooting" scene in North by Northwest. That kid with his fingers in his ears is sooo distracting once you know he's there.

I love rear-projection car scenes btw. Don't know why exactly other than I just love obvious artifice in my movies. One of my favorite scenes from any film is a short car driving scene in One From the Heart where scale models of Las Vegas pass by in the background. I can't remember if it involved rear-projection though.

[Qrazy]

Did Godard dislike the 'Scope format? He had already shot one film in widescreen (Une femme est une femme [1961]) and would use it again in Pierrot le fou (1965). I think it would be more accurate to say that Lang didn't like shooting in widescreen (he only made one film in 'Scope, Moonfleet [1955], one of his better American films), and he's quoting himself in Le Mépris.

Ehh some poster on RT way back when said that after shooting A Woman is a woman he decided he disliked it but then the American producers forced him to shoot in that style for Contempt which was another compounding reason fueling his contempt. I can't find any substantiating evidence of this however, so perhaps you're right, that'll teach me to believe everything I read.

[balmakboor]

Ehh some poster on RT way back when said that after shooting A Woman is a woman he decided he disliked it but then the American producers forced him to shoot in that style for Contempt which was another compounding reason fueling his contempt. I can't find any substantiating evidence of this however, so perhaps you're right, that'll teach me to believe everything I read.

I think Godard is just difficult to pin down on such matters. That's one of the things I like about him.

[Qrazy]

Yeh, something I learned while watching the documentary on the Criterion dvd is just how much rear-projection was used. It's everywhere. It made me wish Hitchcock had used it during the "shooting" scene in North by Northwest. That kid with his fingers in his ears is sooo distracting once you know he's there.

I love rear-projection car scenes btw. Don't know why exactly other than I just love obvious artifice in my movies. One of my favorite scenes from any film is a short car driving scene in One From the Heart where scale models of Las Vegas pass by in the background. I can't remember if it involved rear-projection though.

I don't mind artifice in it's proper context (where the film and the film's style is about it), say a Suzuki or Godard, but when it pops up in an improper context, I despise it.

[balmakboor]

I don't mind artifice in it's proper context (where the film and the film's style is about it), say a Suzuki or Godard, but when it pops up in an improper context, I despise it.

Fair enough. I just wish now that I could find my way back to appreciating Suzuki. Things started well with Branded to Kill and Tokyo Drifter but then Pistol Opera tore it all down again. (I think I must've just totally misunderstood that movie. The Pup at RT with his impeccably interesting tastes loved it to end all loves.)

[Qrazy]

Fair enough. I just wish now that I could find my way back to appreciating Suzuki. Things started well with Branded to Kill and Tokyo Drifter but then Pistol Opera tore it all down again. (I think I must've just totally misunderstood that movie. The Pup at RT with his impeccably interesting tastes loved it to end all loves.)

You'll probably like Youth of the Beast which works well with those first two, to changes things up a bit check out Gate of Flesh and Story of a Prostitute as well.

[Russ]

Fair enough. I just wish now that I could find my way back to appreciating Suzuki. Things started well with Branded to Kill and Tokyo Drifter but then Pistol Opera tore it all down again. (I think I must've just totally misunderstood that movie. The Pup at RT with his impeccably interesting tastes loved it to end all loves.)
Rosenbaum opens his review of Pistol Opera with the question, "Can I call a film a masterpiece without being sure that I understand it? " And there are some, like the Pup (and myself), who wholeheartedly agree with Rosenbaum's assessment.

[Raiders]

Rosenbaum opens his review of Pistol Opera with the question, "Can I call a film a masterpiece without being sure that I understand it? " And there are some, like the Pup (and myself), who wholeheartedly agree with Rosenbaum's assessment.

Indeed.

[number8]

Indeed x 2.

[Spinal]

Pistol Opera made more sense to me than Toyko Drifter.

[Qrazy]

If you weren't certain at first, this ought to clarify that Estonians... are fucking crazy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq37UBL8lII

[balmakboor]

Pistol Opera made more sense to me than Toyko Drifter.

Maybe "misunderstood" was a poor word choice. I wouldn't say I understood any of Suzuki's films. Entertained, yes. Understood, not really. Pistol Opera just seemed ugly and poorly made and uninvolving when I watched it. (That was about three years ago -- maybe more.) I'll read that Rosenbaun piece and probably give it another go. My dislike of The Thin Red Line turned to love recently. Maybe I've attained a higher sphere of film appreciation now.

[Spinal]

Maybe "misunderstood" was a poor word choice. I wouldn't say I understood any of Suzuki's films. Entertained, yes. Understood, not really. Pistol Opera just seemed ugly and poorly made and uninvolving when I watched it. (That was about three years ago -- maybe more.)

Huh, weird. That's pretty much how I felt about Tokyo Drifter. I just couldn't find an "in". I barely remember anything about it. Whereas, with Pistol Opera, I was very taken by the visuals and the suggestion of a mythological underworld (am I remembering this right?). I couldn't explain the film to you certainly, but I could at least grasp that there were themes being explored and that there was a nifty unusual universe being created.

[balmakboor]

I find myself attracted by extremes. Directors who fuss over every nook and cranny of every shot like Ozu and directors who work very quickly and instinctively and cheaply like Susuki. Sort of a Yin and Yang thing I guess. Approaches in between the extremes just don't seem as interesting and ballsy.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I forgot to mention that I watched Clerks 2 last night, for no other reason than I was tired and it was just starting on one of the movie channels. Morbid curiosity got the better of me and I didn't change the channel.

Anyone who was part of the standing ovation at Cannes has lost a lifetime of respect from me. That film was ridiculous. It just got worse and worse as it went on, and there wasn't a single funny moment throughout. It was lame, immature gross-out humor that should only appeal to the lowest common denominator. I apologize if I'm offending anyone with that comment, but I'm just floored that anyone could find enjoyment in that drivel.

[Qrazy]

I forgot to mention that I watched Clerks 2 last night, for no other reason than I was tired and it was just starting on one of the movie channels. Morbid curiosity got the better of me and I didn't change the channel.

Anyone who was part of the standing ovation at Cannes has lost a lifetime of respect from me. That film was ridiculous. It just got worse and worse as it went on, and there wasn't a single funny moment throughout. It was lame, immature gross-out humor that should only appeal to the lowest common denominator. I apologize if I'm offending anyone with that comment, but I'm just floored that anyone could find enjoyment in that drivel.

Kevin Smith is by far the least deserving member of the film canon... the canons he's included in that is.

[Raiders]

Leatherheads was pretty lame. It also made me realize Krasinski, as talented as he is on "The Office," doesn't really do well in big screen comedies (the 40 minutes or so I could stomach of License to Wed further confirmed this). And don't get me started on the truly awful Renee Zellweger, exuding zero charm and charisma. For a film that attempted to revive the screwball comedy, a subgenre rife with strong women, Zellweger's character and performance are just pitiful. If this film accomplished anything, it did make me realize how undervalued the Coens' Intolerable Cruelty really is.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Leatherheads was pretty lame. It also made me realize Krasinski, as talented as he is on "The Office," doesn't really do well in big screen comedies (the 40 minutes or so I could stomach of License to Wed further confirmed this). And don't get me started on the truly awful Renee Zellweger, exuding zero charm and charisma. For a film that attempted to revive the screwball comedy, a subgenre rife with strong women, Zellweger's character and performance are just pitiful. If this film accomplished anything, it did make me realize how undervalued the Coens' Intolerable Cruelty really is.

I actually don't think Krasinski is all that talented in The Office. I think it's a well-written character whose framework was established by Martin Freeman, and Krasinski just kind of mimics that. He's not bad or anything, but I think as an actor he's pretty expendable. I don't feel like the character would decline in the hands of someone else.

[number8]

I forgot to mention that I watched Clerks 2 last night, for no other reason than I was tired and it was just starting on one of the movie channels. Morbid curiosity got the better of me and I didn't change the channel.

Anyone who was part of the standing ovation at Cannes has lost a lifetime of respect from me. That film was ridiculous. It just got worse and worse as it went on, and there wasn't a single funny moment throughout. It was lame, immature gross-out humor that should only appeal to the lowest common denominator. I apologize if I'm offending anyone with that comment, but I'm just floored that anyone could find enjoyment in that drivel.

You know, I haven't seen that since it came out. Are the Transformers jokes all dated now?

[Raiders]

Anybody else know about Linklater's project Boyhood, where he is shooting over many years to capture the growth of a boy (thus it isn't due out until 2013)? This seems fruitless in a fiction film. There is a lot of discussion in the imdb boards about this being a quasi-sequel to Before Sunset, charting the life of Jesse's son and wife back home. Seems doubtful.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1065073/board/nest/80001805

[Grouchy]

Anybody else know about Linklater's project Boyhood, where he is shooting over many years to capture the growth of a boy (thus it isn't due out until 2013)? This seems fruitless in a fiction film. There is a lot of discussion in the imdb boards about this being a quasi-sequel to Before Sunset, charting the life of Jesse's son and wife back home. Seems doubtful.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1065073/board/nest/80001805
That looks a lot like what the Harvey Keitel character does in Smoke, documenting the progressive passing of time on a subject. And, coincidentally, I was talking about this with a photographer friend who wants to do the same thing, take the same picture of a street corner at the start of every month, notice the changes and then choose one for every season of the year and make a four-picture portrait.

I like it. It's obviously an experiment, not a device to use in every fiction film. If he's doing a fiction film with it, that's, well, interesting.

[Kurosawa Fan]

You know, I haven't seen that since it came out. Are the Transformers jokes all dated now?

It's not that they're dated, it's that they're easy. Calling Gobots the K-mart Transformers? We were doing that in elementary school. In other words, when I was 8 I would have thought that was funny. It's the same with 99% of the jokes in that film. It's middle school humor at best. Anyone older than 13 should find the jokes old and unfunny. An entire segment on donkey sex? And it ends up being a guy instead of a girl? That's supposed to be funny? Because that's literally all that scene had going for it. If you read that and couldn't find humor in it, Smith offers you nothing else. The film was complete garbage.

[Watashi]

Zellweger was the best part of Leatherheads.

[Raiders]

Zellweger was the best part of Leatherheads.

I'm not sure how one could come to this conclusion, but as long as we agree the film isn't very good, then I'm happy.

[Spinal]

Zellweger was the best part of Leatherheads.

Yikes.

[Watashi]

Considering I like Zellwegger, I won't understand the hate she gets.

Where is that unpopular opinions thread? She deserved her Oscar for Cold Mountain.

[D_Davis]

Anyone who was part of the standing ovation at Cannes has lost a lifetime of respect from me. That film was ridiculous. It just got worse and worse as it went on, and there wasn't a single funny moment throughout. It was lame, immature gross-out humor that should only appeal to the lowest common denominator. I apologize if I'm offending anyone with that comment, but I'm just floored that anyone could find enjoyment in that drivel.

A few years ago, I purged myself of all Kevin Smith - I sold everything I owned by the guy.

I was done.

I then went to see Clerks 2, and I loved it. It ended up on my Top 10 of that year.

A few months after it was released on DVD I watched it again and I totally hated it.

I thought it was terrible.

[D_Davis]

Considering I like Zellwegger, I won't understand the hate she gets.

Nurse Betty rules, and she is awesome in it.

[Qrazy]

A few years ago, I purged myself of all Kevin Smith - I sold everything I owned by the guy.

I was done.

I then went to see Clerks 2, and I loved it. It ended up on my Top 10 of that year.

A few months after it was released on DVD I watched it again and I totally hated it.

I thought it was terrible.

I don't understand the moral of this story.

---

Has anyone seen The 10th Kingdom (10 hour miniseries)? Looks good, mostly great feedback.

[Qrazy]

Anyone excited about seeing (or dreading) The Forbidden Kingdom? Every time I go to the theater, I stand and stare at that huge and gorgeous lobby display. Then I think, "Martial arts epic by the director of The Lion King. Hmm, could work I guess."

I dunno, he also directed The Haunted Mansion which looked like one of the worst things ever created... haven't seen the Stuart Little films.

[D_Davis]

I don't understand the moral of this story.


Don't fall for Smith's bullshit, again.

[number8]

I'll always stand by Mallrats. Don't ask me why.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'll always stand by Mallrats. Don't ask me why.

I thought the same thing until I rewatched it a couple years ago and laughed a grand total of twice. Smith writes for a (young) teenage audience.

[Sycophant]

I'll always stand by Mallrats. Don't ask me why.
Huh. That's my least favorite.

[Rowland]

I've never seen a Kevin Smith movie, and I can't say the prospect is too enticing. I remember seeing a commercial for Jersey Girls after it bombed opening weekend that was literally just Kevin Smith sitting in front of a black background begging the viewer to see it. "C'mon guys, it's got Arwen in the shower. Naked Arwen!" Any lingering interest I had in the man's work was lost at that moment. That said, I may have to make an exception for his porno comedy with Elizabeth Banks.

[Boner M]

An Evening With Kevin Smith is good stuff. Probably the only thing he's done that's worthwhile.

[Ezee E]

Kevin Smith hated Magnolia, I wonder how he feels on TWBB...

[DavidSeven]

I still think Dogma is a pretty good film. I'd rate the others on varying levels of annoyance (haven't seen anything post-Dogma).

[Melville]

The only Kevin Smith film I've seen is Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. I don't recall laughing.

[baby doll]

Kevin Smith hated Magnolia, I wonder how he feels on TWBB...Who cares? He doesn't watch foreign movies, therefore his opinions don't matter. He also says if it weren't for John Hughes that he wouldn't be making films, as if I didn't have enough of a beef with Hughes.

[MadMan]

I'll admit I liked Clerks II to some degree, but I have a feeling if I ever revisited it I wouldn't like the film as much as I did the first time. Jay and Silent Bob was fairly lame. I will defend Clerks as I think its rather funny and contains some entertaining dark humor, but honestly I'll go into the rest of his films with low expectations. Even Dogma which I hear is his "best" film." Honestly I foresee myself outgrowing Smith as well, especially since he's like the Farelly Brothers with only 1/16th the talent.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I really liked Grey Gardens, it's invaded my brain.

[balmakboor]

... haven't seen the Stuart Little films.

They are good for what they are.

[MadMan]

They are good for what they are.The first film is utter shit. One of the worst films I've ever seen. I bet the sequel is much of the same.

[balmakboor]

The first film is utter shit. One of the worst films I've ever seen. I bet the sequel is much of the same.

I watched the first one with my kids and we had a great time. No, it isn't utter shit, though it may not be your cup of tea.

[MadMan]

I watched the first one with my kids and we had a great time. No, it isn't utter shit, though it may not be your cup of tea.I did see the film when I was a kid, in middle school no less. That's the last and only time I ever saw it. I'm pretty sure my opinion wouldn't change if I revisited the film.

[balmakboor]

Two great nights in a row. After The Blade last night, I finally got around to House of the Flying Daggers. What a great movie. It's well up there among the most beautiful things I've ever watched.

[Spinal]

I really liked Grey Gardens, it's invaded my brain.

I've always thought you were a staunch character.

[Raiders]

Two great nights in a row. After The Blade last night, I finally got around to House of the Flying Daggers. What a great movie. It's well up there among the most beautiful things I've ever watched.

I started to watch this a couple months ago but it immediately seemed to me to be something I would dislike in many of the same ways I don't care much for Hero, so I didn't bother. I have heard many people say the films are quite different, but I have never gotten around to watching it.

[balmakboor]

I started to watch this a couple months ago but it immediately seemed to me to be something I would dislike in many of the same ways I don't care much for Hero, so I didn't bother. I have heard many people say the films are quite different, but I have never gotten around to watching it.

I've come to appreciate Hero to a degree. It certainly has great set pieces and pretty pictures, but it doesn't really engage me much. Flying Daggers sucked me in from the get go and worked on every level.

[Qrazy]

I've come to appreciate Hero to a degree. It certainly has great set pieces and pretty pictures, but it doesn't really engage me much. Flying Daggers sucked me in from the get go and worked on every level.

Nah, Hero is the better film on pretty much every level, way too much CGI in House.

[soitgoes...]

Nah, Hero is the better film on pretty much every level, way too much CGI in House.
Yes. Zhang's Curse of the Golden Flower suffers even more from this.

[balmakboor]

Nah, Hero is the better film on pretty much every level, way too much CGI in House.

Not you again. First you knock rear-projection. Now you knock CGI. What am I going to do with you?

I enjoyed the story and characters a whole lot more in House than in Hero. With Hero, I spent the time in between fight scenes looking forward to the next fight scene. With House, I enjoyed the scenes in between the fights as much if not more than the fights.

I suppose a martial arts cinema purist probably hates the very idea of CGI though.

[balmakboor]

Yes. Zhang's Curse of the Golden Flower suffers even more from this.

Yum, I can't wait. I'll be getting to that one soon. I'll be finally seeing Raise the Red Lantern first though.

[Watashi]

Yum, I can't wait. I'll be getting to that one soon. I'll be finally seeing Raise the Red Lantern first though.
No, trust me, Curse of the Golden Flower is aw-aw-ful. And I love HOTFD.

[balmakboor]

No, trust me, Curse of the Golden Flower is aw-aw-ful. And I love HOTFD.

I've heard that. It's the main reason I've put if off for so long. I put HOTFD off for so long because I didn't care for Hero the first time I saw it.

[Spinal]

I've heard that. It's the main reason I've put if off for so long.
Nah, it's pretty excellent. (http://filmepidemic.blogspot.com/2007/01/curse-of-golden-flower-zhang-2006.html)

[D_Davis]

Nah, it's pretty excellent. (http://filmepidemic.blogspot.com/2007/01/curse-of-golden-flower-zhang-2006.html)

It sure is:

http://www.genrebusters.com/film/review_goldenflower.htm

Really good. I like it a lot more than House...

And as a martial arts "purist," I have no problem with CGI.

It's just another technique to accomplish something.

It depends on the kind of film really.

Sure, if I am watching a more "realistic" kung fu pian, then I want actual physical performances. But when we are dealing with uber-human powers often found in the wuxia pian - flying, traveling underground, shooting lasers from swords, and tons of magical things - I see no problem with CGI. It's just another technique such as extensive wire work and optical effects as seen in Zu Warriors, The Buddha's Palm, Holy Flame of the Martial World and other early martial arts fantasies.

[Qrazy]

Yum, I can't wait. I'll be getting to that one soon. I'll be finally seeing Raise the Red Lantern first though.

His best film, absolutely fantastic.

[megladon8]

King Hu's Come Drink With Me is one of the near-future releases from Dragon Dynasty.

Definitely one I'll pick up, because I've wanted to see it for a while.

I'm wondering what happened to their plans to release The Killer this March?

[Melville]

Raise the Red Lantern - terrific study of repression in a brilliantly stylized world
House of Flying Daggers - great melodramatic romance accentuated by impossibly lush scenery
Curse of the Golden Flower - hilariously, gloriously absurd

I saw RtRL and CotGF around the same time, and I was impressed by how Zhang used similar techniques (particularly his use of music and editing to create structural and thematic elements out of daily rituals) to achieve such different goals in the two films.

[Rowland]

Curse was just goofy, but pretty entertainingly so. The visuals went beyond lush into the garish though, which one could argue is thematically justified, but it was still disappointing. I felt like I was watching half the movie through butterscotch-goggles. House of Flying Daggers is easily my favorite of his martial arts trilogy.

[origami_mustache]

Leatherheads was a huge waste of time; in fact I think Semi-Pro was less annoying. The story wasn't the least bit engaging, it was aesthetically dull, and I don't think I sincerely laughed once. The performances seemed pretty half-assed as well and Clooney completely missed the mark in his attempt at an homage to the old quick witted comedies from the 30s and 40s, but at least I didn't pay for the ticket.

[Rowland]

Death at a Funeral was predictably lame, but I still enjoyed the experience because my GF's laughter was so infectious.

[Qrazy]

Death at a Funeral was predictably lame, but I still enjoyed the experience because my GF's laughter was so infectious.

Really? I found it a bit too high pitched and self-conscious for my taste, no where near as charming as your former girlfriend's lilting falsetto.

[number8]

Nah, it's pretty excellent. (http://filmepidemic.blogspot.com/2007/01/curse-of-golden-flower-zhang-2006.html)


It sure is:

http://www.genrebusters.com/film/review_goldenflower.htm

Indeed:

http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/curse-of-the-golden-flower/review/

:lol:

[Rowland]

Really? I found it a bit too high pitched and self-conscious for my taste, no where near as charming as your former girlfriend's lilting falsetto.;) I'm just really happy, so don't mind me when I slip in references to her here and there. But yeah, the movie sucked. Poor Dinklage.

[MacGuffin]

Cowards Bend the Knee was just "okay". Thanks for the recommendation though, all. The next Guy Maddin movie that I see will likely be Archangel.

[lovejuice]

i like death at a funeral. won't waste my time definding it though. and it's a pleasant surprise to know these many of you like CURSE. i also like HOUSE. HERO is the only movie that doesn't work for me. then again, i don't even like rashomon, so i don't think this kinda storyline will ever win me.

[Rowland]

Hell, House of Flying Daggers is my favorite Zhang movie, period. Did anyone besides number8 see Riding Alone For Thousands of Miles? I may have thought Curse was overly mediocre, but it was still an improvement over that drably sentimental disappointment.

[Qrazy]

Hell, House of Flying Daggers is my favorite Zhang movie, period. Did anyone besides number8 see Riding Alone For Thousands of Miles? I may have thought Curse was overly mediocre, but it was still an improvement over that drably sentimental disappointment.

Have you seen his early work? Raise the Red Lantern, To Live, Red Sorghum and Ju Dou are all infinitely better.

[Stay Puft]

King Hu's Come Drink With Me is one of the near-future releases from Dragon Dynasty.

Oh, cool. I just picked it up a couple weeks ago, too. Not the Dragon Dynasty release, I mean, but a different R1 disc. Quality is eh... not great. Suppose I'll wait for the DD release and see what it's like.

I was looking at the list of films DD has optioned, and it's loaded with Shaw Brothers fare (lots of Chang Cheh and Lau Kar Leung). Can't wait for some those!

[balmakboor]

Indeed:

http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/curse-of-the-golden-flower/review/

:lol:

Cool. I go to bed thinking Curse of the Golden Flower is a waste of time and wake up the next morning to find it is now a must see. I love this Matchcut place.

[D_Davis]

Cool. I go to bed thinking Curse of the Golden Flower is a waste of time and wake up the next morning to find it is now a must see. I love this Matchcut place.

I forgot that Spinal, 8, and I all thought it was pretty good.

I need to see it again.

[Melville]

Curse was just goofy, but pretty entertainingly so. The visuals went beyond lush into the garish though, which one could argue is thematically justified, but it was still disappointing. I felt like I was watching half the movie through butterscotch-goggles. House of Flying Daggers is easily my favorite of his martial arts trilogy.
I'd say Hero and HoFD were already verging on being garish. Curse goes beyond garishness of the everyday sort into a world of garishness all its own. It ain't pretty, but it's mesmerizing in its absurdity.

[Lucky]

Hell, House of Flying Daggers is my favorite Zhang movie, period. Did anyone besides number8 see Riding Alone For Thousands of Miles? I may have thought Curse was overly mediocre, but it was still an improvement over that drably sentimental disappointment.

I saw it. I thought it passable, mainly due to the actor's performance. HOFD is definitely my favorite, but I've liked all of Zhang's movies -- even Curse.

[Spinal]

I re-watched Sweet Movie last night and, boy, it was even more outrageous than I had remembered. Previously, I had seen it on a Facets VHS, so having the Criterion DVD was glorious. It was a treat to see it with the video looking so sharp. The director interview is very enlightening as well. I had no idea that the shocking commune footage in the last third of the film is essentially documentary with him thrusting his lead actress into the madness. I also felt like I had a better grasp on what Makavejev was trying to communicate this time. Something about the Revolution being corrupted by decadence and co-opted by commercialism, I believe. I'd probably need to do a research paper to sort it all out.

[DavidSeven]

Curse of the Golden Flower is like all of the bad elements of Hero and HOFD magnified by 10 and more evenly distributed over the entire runtime.

[Rowland]

I need to see it again.It doesn't seem like the kind of movie that would have much to offer upon repeat viewings, besides marveling at the grotesque set design.

[Spinal]

I don't get why people knock the costumes and the sets when it is clear that the intention was to mirror the suffocating decadence of the royal family. All that excess is intentional and works wonderfully to support the film's central theme.

[Rowland]

I don't get why people knock the costumes and the sets when it is clear that the intention was to mirror the suffocating decadence of the royal family. All that excess is intentional and works wonderfully to support the film's central theme.Yeah, as I said on the previous page, it's arguably justified on thematic grounds. I suppose this reasoning isn't profound enough to justify how the visuals hurt my eyes... it's just kinda obvious.

[Ezee E]

The thing that is bad about CotGF is some ridiculously unintentional comedy. I laughed when Timmy from South Park more or less showed up in his live-action form in the end.

[Spinal]

The thing that is bad about CotGF is some ridiculously unintentional comedy.

Who says it's unintentional? It struck me as purposeful.

[lovejuice]

Curse of the Golden Flower is like all of the bad elements of Hero and HOFD magnified by 10 and more evenly distributed over the entire runtime.

yeah, what's an awesome movie! only thing missing is the emperor's missile shooting raptor.

[balmakboor]

Curse of the Golden Flower is like all of the bad elements of Hero and HOFD magnified by 10 and more evenly distributed over the entire runtime.

What are the bad elements of Hero and HOFD? I'm just curious because if I like those elements then magnifying them by 10 could lead to absolute bliss.

[balmakboor]

I was talking to a friend earlier today and he says the Blue Ray verison of Curse of the Golden Flower is his demo disc of choice right now. "Absolutely beautiful" he said.

[Sven]

Nah, Hero is the better film on pretty much every level, way too much CGI in House.

What CGI there is in HoFD is much less stultifying than the plethora of computer effects in Hero. Where do you draw the line, sir?

[DrewG]

Watched a good film in class today, which was apparently only fully restored in 2004. It was Different From The Others a Weimar film from 1919 directed by Richard Oswald. It was made in a time that Germany had this rule 175 that could have homosexuals jailed and subsequently outright shunned by society at large. The story is of a risky relationship between virtuoso viloinist Paul Korner and his student Kurt Sivers. Considering it was made before there was a production code it's able to get away with making the homosexuality quite evident and also have a sexologist show pictures of transvestites and others not comfortable with their own sex.

Unfortunately a lot of the film has been lost and still images and word heavy intertitles are used to make up for this. The commentary is surprisingly still very fresh and the ending is perfectly brave and something the entire movie really works you for.

IMDb page: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0009878/

[balmakboor]

What CGI there is in HoFD is much less stultifying than the plethora of computer effects in Hero. Where do you draw the line, sir?

What'cha talkin about. You mean those bazillion arrows weren't real?

[Sycophant]

Quick! Name me a film (or three) that feature the protagonist in every (or very nearly every) scene.

[Spinal]

Quick! Name me a film (or three) that feature the protagonist in every (or very nearly every) scene.

There Will Be Blood

[D_Davis]

Quick! Name me a film (or three) that feature the protagonist in every (or very nearly every) scene.

The Big Lebowski
Double Indemnity
The Big Sleep (I think)

[Sven]

Jeanne Dielman

[Russ]

Quick! Name me a film (or three) that feature the protagonist in every (or very nearly every) scene.
Memento
Inland Empire
Sleuth (1972)

[MacGuffin]

Inland Empire

Eh, that's pushing it. There are quite a few scenes that don't feature Laura Dern.

[Yxklyx]

Quick! Name me a film (or three) that feature the protagonist in every (or very nearly every) scene.

There are tons of films like these. How about a film in which the protagonist never appears in a scene?

[Yxklyx]

Near Dark (1987, Kathryn Bigelow) was very good - one of the better "vampire" films, in the vein of Martin. Man, the actor that played Homer - I though it was a girl all the time. Lance Henrickson never looked better.

[balmakboor]

Taxi Driver
Evil Dead
Chinatown

[Spinal]

There are tons of films like these. How about a film in which the protagonist never appears in a scene?

Jarman's Blue.

[balmakboor]

There are tons of films like these. How about a film in which the protagonist never appears in a scene?

Do you have some in mind?

[Sven]

There are tons of films like these. How about a film in which the protagonist never appears in a scene?

Excluding his brief appearances in reflections and in a talking head sequence used to introduce the story/tie together some loose ends, you don't see much of Montgomery in Lady in the Lake.

[Sycophant]

Thanks, everyone!

[Russ]

Eh, that's pushing it. There are quite a few scenes that don't feature Laura Dern.
I like to remember things my own way.

[D_Davis]

Isn't having the protagonist in almost every scene one of the staples of film noir?

[MadMan]

Isn't having the protagonist in almost every scene one of the staples of film noir?From what I've seen I'd say it is.

Has anyone here seen Major Dundee(1965)? Its playing on TCM right now. The cast for it is pretty awesome, what with Charlton Heston, Slim Pickens, Richard Harris, Ben Johnson and James Cogburn in the mix.

[Qrazy]

What CGI there is in HoFD is much less stultifying than the plethora of computer effects in Hero. Where do you draw the line, sir?

I shouldn't answer because I know what your rebuttal will be (since we have such varying aesthetics... i.e. you think Ultraviolet and Hard Boiled are aesthetically equivalent) but...

I draw the line when it looks bad.

ex: The seeds/pebbles? (can't remember) drum scene near the beginning... following shot of an unrealistic looking dagger... etc.

[Sven]

I shouldn't answer because I know what your rebuttal will be (since we have such varying aesthetics... i.e. you think Ultraviolet and Hard Boiled are aesthetically equivalent) but...

I draw the line when it looks bad.

ex: The seeds/pebbles? (can't remember) drum scene near the beginning... following shot of an unrealistic looking dagger... etc.

I do not find them aesthetically equivalent, however, I do find the ends of their aesthetic approach to be negligible in effect.

I agree that the bean thing was pretty irritating. But to me, that looked no less awful than all those arrows or the ping-pong with the water drop or the slow-mo sideways whirlpool thing.

[Melville]

I do not find them aesthetically equivalent, however, I do find the ends of their aesthetic approach to be negligible in effect.

I agree that the bean thing was pretty irritating. But to me, that looked no less awful than all those arrows or the ping-pong with the water drop or the slow-mo sideways whirlpool thing.
I'm with you on this. There are one or two moments of questionable CGI in HoFD, but overall the aesthetic is much more varied and natural. Everything in Hero looks too clean and synthetic, while the look of HoFD is much more tactile (e.g. the forests are more textured and the camera movements less mannered).

[Spinal]

Bah, the CGI effects in those films are great. Wholly appropriate for the kind of films they are. The drum scene is stunning in its beauty.

[Qrazy]

I'm with you on this. There are one or two moments of questionable CGI in HoFD, but overall the aesthetic is much more varied and natural. Everything in Hero looks too clean and synthetic, while the look of HoFD is much more tactile (e.g. the forests are more textured and the camera movements less mannered).

Nah, because of the poor CGI in the latter everything takes on a plastic feeling... and it's not just poor CGI, it's poor shot conception/storyboarding in relation to the former (in the sense that CGI shots don't seem forced in, in Hero where House possesses an over the top, cram that 'cool' shot in here vibe... it feels indulgent). Where shots of arrow splitting in the former serve some purpose, a shot following the dagger in slo-mo serves none. Any sense of reality or texture gained from the close environments is lost in relation to the false, unwieldy imagery. You see less mannered, I see less precise and purposeful. Hero is full of grain, blowing sand, water, etc as well so the texture is there, it's just not as organic (or rather as organic as House tries to be and fails) as in House.

[Qrazy]

Bah, the CGI effects in those films are great. Wholly appropriate for the kind of films they are. The drum scene is stunning in its beauty.

Nah, it's garish and indulgent. I view these films as martial arts operas, but operas can also lose their emotional poignancy if they're oppressed by their set design or in this case indulgent camerawork.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Rewatched A Clockwork Orange for the first time in years, I was never a fan, and although I like it more than I did I still fail to connect with it on any level. I always find myself losing interest in the characters and unfolding action. However, I did really enjoy Alex's confrontation with "adults" that he wasn't terrorizing, especially his teacher (?), who I find absolutely hilarious. The final scene also far more interesting than I remember, and better than the epilogue of the novel. Now I need to rewatch Barry Lyndon.

[MacGuffin]

Rewatched A Clockwork Orange for the first time in years, I was never a fan, and although I like it more than I did I still fail to connect with it on any level.

Yeah, I thought it was a piece of shit.

[trotchky]

Rewatched A Clockwork Orange for the first time in years, I was never a fan, and although I like it more than I did I still fail to connect with it on any level. I always find myself losing interest in the characters and unfolding action. However, I did really enjoy Alex's confrontation with "adults" that he wasn't terrorizing, especially his teacher (?), who I find absolutely hilarious. The final scene also far more interesting than I remember, and better than the epilogue of the novel. Now I need to rewatch Barry Lyndon.

It's probably the most formalistically perfect movie I've ever seen.

[Philosophe_rouge]

It's probably the most formalistically perfect movie I've ever seen.
Watching the film, especially in the first half I couldn't help feeling the same way. Every damn shot, moment, sound and cut felt right, if not "perfect". Still, no connection. The second half doesn't feel nearly as wonderful, but it's still quite reflective of Alex's state of mind.

[MadMan]

If you haven't viewed Major Dundee(1965), make sure you see the extended edition that is actually the cut that Peckinpah intended to be shown to the world. Truly a magnificiant western and a stirring war epic, the film is near great in almost every aspect. I felt that at times it fell short, and that some scenes and moments could have been cut. Eventually I plan on fully reviewing this movie, however I must say that not only does the cast add to its awesomeness but its also a rather unique film as well. I would compare this to The Professionals, not only because its set in Mexico but also because some similar themes are discussed and the style is very similar. Even though I think the latter film, which was made in 1966, is superior and features a much better cast.

Speaking of The Professionals which I own on DVD and is one of the best westerns I've ever seen, this is one of Alex Trebeck's selections to be shown next Monday on TCM. I had no idea he was a fan of this film and also Little Big Man, which is another one of his planned selections as well for Guest Programmer Month. I'm going to pimp out that film extensively as I think many here would enjoy it as much as I did (a second viewing only convinced me of its greatness). Oh and eventually that long planned out western thread will be made, if only I could finish many of the westerns I've been really wanting to see.

[dreamdead]

On the second time through, Hong Sangsoo's Turning Gate is a masterclass on pure formalism. There are a grand total of 12 camera pans in the film; everything else is conveyed through meticulous cutting and framing. Moreover, the study of masculinity and the lead's manipulation of truth in the name of desire are both patiently explored, with several layers of interiority underneath the folklore that grounds the film. Just wonderful.

And now I'm uber-excited to see Woman on the Beach later in the month.

[DrewG]

Hey if that person still needed a film with the protagonist in every scene I have a perfect example:

Children of Men

[Scar]

Yeah, There Will Be Blood just shot to the top of my shopping list. Let me know when its available on Blu-ray, k?

Jess looks at me like I'm crazy when I talk about the milk shake scene. :lol:

[Boner M]

Finishing essays on Friday, so I'll have a packed weekend schedule, with a handful of the following:

The Neon Bible
My Brother's Wedding
Good Men, Good Women
An Actor's Revenge
Daisy Kenyon
The Face of Another
The Music Room
Lars and the Real Girl
the rest of The Best of Youth

And I might head off to see a Bill Viola exhibition; never seen any video art in its proper context.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, There Will Be Blood just shot to the top of my shopping list. Let me know when its available on Blu-ray, k?

Jess looks at me like I'm crazy when I talk about the milk shake scene. :lol:
It didn't come out this week?

[Spinal]

Funny I was thinking the same thing when looking at your signature :):

Have you seen Smiley Face?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Have you seen Smiley Face?

If I remember correctly, he absolutely hated it.

[Spinal]

If I remember correctly, he absolutely hated it.

Bah, I bet he'd like it if it was some donkey that mistakenly ate too many marijuana cupcakes. He'd be all like, "Oh, that donkey's a martyr! Look how mistreated he is! What a saint! Blah blah blah Susan Sontag blah blah."

[Kurosawa Fan]

Bah, I bet he'd like it if it was some donkey that mistakenly ate too many marijuana cupcakes. He'd be all like, "Oh, that donkey's a martyr! Look how mistreated he is! What a saint! Blah blah blah Susan Sontag blah blah."

Hmm. Perhaps he would also like Clerks 2?

[Scar]

It didn't come out this week?

Not on blu-ray. I heard somewhere it was 'in progress'.

[Qrazy]

Bah, I bet he'd like it if it was some donkey that mistakenly ate too many marijuana cupcakes. He'd be all like, "Oh, that donkey's a martyr! Look how mistreated he is! What a saint! Blah blah blah Susan Sontag blah blah."

I once saw a man attempt to feed a cop's horse (while the cop was on it) a weed brownie at a Phish concert... good times.

[Qrazy]

Someone say something insightful about film, I'm fiending.

[D_Davis]

For those of you turned off by bad CGI in contemporary live action films, are you also turned off by bad effects like stop-motion, and rear screen projection in older films?

If not, why? The "charm"? Do you give older films a pass on effects and judge newer films more harshly? How old does a film have to be before it gets the effects pass? What about films from other countries with industries not as technologically advanced as Hollywood?

[balmakboor]

Someone say something insightful about film, I'm fiending.

Probably not very insightful, but...

"If you are not criticized, you may not be doing much." - Donald H. Rumsfeld

A few days ago when I was pondering "perfect" films, I almost arrived at this same quote. "If a film is perfect, its maker didn't take enough risks."

[Qrazy]

For those of you turned off by bad CGI in contemporary live action films, are you also turned off by bad effects like stop-motion, and rear screen projection in older films?

If not, why? The "charm"? Do you give older films a pass on effects and judge newer films more harshly? How old does a film have to be before it gets the effects pass? What about films from other countries with industries not as technologically advanced as Hollywood?

Yeah, I'd say it bothers me just as much in older films (i.e. Notorious and elsewhere)... I guess middling stop motion in older films doesn't bother me as much as long as the overall aesthetic is preserved (King Kong, early animation). I'm more bothered by effects for effects sake where I feel we're seeing something that isn't at the service of the story... but for the sake of showing the effect.

There are tons of older films where I think the rear projection and stop motion work wonderfully, and not because it's unnoticeable and flawless, but because the aesthetic of the overall picture remains intact and the effect serves a purpose.

[Qrazy]

Probably not very insightful, but...

"If you are not criticized, you may not be doing much." - Donald H. Rumsfeld

A few days ago when I was pondering "perfect" films, I almost arrived at this same quote. "If a film is perfect, its maker didn't take enough risks."

Yeah, really the most you can hope for is making a film where your major critics are the people who's opinions you value least... because there will always be critics.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I once saw a man attempt to feed a cop's horse (while the cop was on it) a weed brownie at a Phish concert... good times.

Don't mention Phish to Spinal! Hippie bands make him angry!

[Spinal]

Don't mention Phish to Spinal! Hippie bands make him angry!

Only when I have to listen to them.

[Ezee E]

That's a neat discussion topic davis, and I'm not sure how I feel about it, because I've been put off by a few movies that have had dated special effects. Particularly those in the 80's being the most for some reason. Others like Notorious seem embedded in my head that it's okay. Plus, it's not a focal point of the movie when they are driving around in cars.

[Derek]

Hmm. Perhaps he would also like Clerks 2?

Nah, Clerks 2 was awful but it wasn't as grating and miserable experience as Smiley Face. If you've ever smoked too much pot to the point where you can't really move, you're extra paranoid and can't think straight, here's a film to recreate that wonderful feeling for 90 minutes!

[megladon8]

For those of you turned off by bad CGI in contemporary live action films, are you also turned off by bad effects like stop-motion, and rear screen projection in older films?

If not, why? The "charm"? Do you give older films a pass on effects and judge newer films more harshly? How old does a film have to be before it gets the effects pass? What about films from other countries with industries not as technologically advanced as Hollywood?


For me, it depends most on the overall tone of the film, and whether the effects were aiming for lifelike quality or not.

In something like I Am Legend, the effects were supposed to look lifelike, but were not even close. Throw in the fact that they were completely unnecessary to begin with, and they stuck out like a sore thumb and really dragged the film down for me.

However, with something like Harryhausen's stop motion, most of the films he did were sci-fi spectacle type stuff. And I still find those effects thrilling and imaginative. Even stop-motion in modern film is awesome - the silent film The Call of Cthulhu from 2005 has stop motion effects (and uses rolling blankets to mimic the ocean) and I loved it.

I guess it's just a case of:

fake looking stop-motion effects > fake looking CGI

[Derek]

Bah, I bet he'd like it if it was some donkey that mistakenly ate too many marijuana cupcakes. He'd be all like, "Oh, that donkey's a martyr! Look how mistreated he is! What a saint! Blah blah blah Susan Sontag blah blah."

:lol:

I'm not sure I'd ever watch an Araki film about a mistreated donkey. That'd probably scar me for life.

[DavidSeven]

For those of you turned off by bad CGI in contemporary live action films, are you also turned off by bad effects like stop-motion, and rear screen projection in older films?

If not, why? The "charm"? Do you give older films a pass on effects and judge newer films more harshly? How old does a film have to be before it gets the effects pass? What about films from other countries with industries not as technologically advanced as Hollywood?

I'm not a fan of rear projection, but from what I've seen, it was used in moderation for most older films (driving sequences and the like). It was also a never dominant piece of what was happening in the frame. The function of it was like ambient sound. It was just background scenery to complete the picture. These days, CGI often becomes the focal point of the frame. It's the centerpiece of the shot and practically begs to be dissected and criticized.

There's plenty of MST3K level stuff with laughable effects that don't get passes from modern viewers. That's because they did the same thing a lot of modern directors are doing now. They're making the bad effects the focal point of their shots.

[Grouchy]

If you haven't viewed Major Dundee(1965), make sure you see the extended edition that is actually the cut that Peckinpah intended to be shown to the world. Truly a magnificiant western and a stirring war epic, the film is near great in almost every aspect. I felt that at times it fell short, and that some scenes and moments could have been cut. Eventually I plan on fully reviewing this movie, however I must say that not only does the cast add to its awesomeness but its also a rather unique film as well. I would compare this to The Professionals, not only because its set in Mexico but also because some similar themes are discussed and the style is very similar. Even though I think the latter film, which was made in 1966, is superior and features a much better cast.
I haven't seen The Professionals, but the director's cut of this is an early example of Peckinpah's mastery as a director and specially at getting incredible performances out of his actors. Of course, it's a classic Hollywood film compared to the movies with crazy editing and excessive violence that made him famous.

Also, for someone recently asking about Charlton Heston's good movies, this is one of them, and one of his better performances, too, considering he wasn't that good of an actor.

[Qrazy]

For anyone interested in seeing a terrible Peckinpah, The Deadly Companions is up there.

[Spinal]

Nah, Clerks 2 was awful but it wasn't as grating and miserable experience as Smiley Face. If you've ever smoked too much pot to the point where you can't really move, you're extra paranoid and can't think straight, here's a film to recreate that wonderful feeling for 90 minutes!

No, no, no. It's a film to recreate the the wonderful feeling of laughing at that pathetic schmuck for 90 minutes.

[Derek]

No, no, no. It's a film to recreate the the wonderful feeling of laughing at that pathetic schmuck for 90 minutes.

I suppose there's the problem. Laughing at a stoner gets old really quick, especially when it's made quite clear how absolute horrible she's feeling. Much of it didn't even seem to play for laughs and was there only to torture Farris' character who I just felt really sorry for by the end. It's a mean-spirited comedy minus the comedy. I agree with you and Rowland that Farris was great, but that's the only good thing I have to say about it.

[Spinal]

I suppose there's the problem. Laughing at a stoner gets old really quick, especially when it's made quite clear how absolute horrible she's feeling. Much of it didn't even seem to play for laughs and was there only to torture Farris' character who I just felt really sorry for by the end. It's a mean-spirited comedy minus the comedy. I agree with you and Rowland that Farris was great, but that's the only good thing I have to say about it.

I didn't think it was all that mean. I thought that Jane was fluctuating between a struggle to accomplish basic tasks and having a really good time. The film is sort of set up like a light-hearted fable, particularly with the way they steal the narrator from Babe. I laughed a lot while watching it and then smiled some more the next day as I recalled certain scenes, which is why I raised it up a notch from my initial rating.

You think I enjoy being on the side of an Araki stoner comedy over a critically-acclaimed Fassbinder film? It's not where I wanted to be! :lol:

[Rowland]

I'm probably crazy, but I don't think Smiley Face gets enough credit for its social commentary. No, really. Here's an excerpt from Matt Zoller Seitz's review that encompasses this perspective better than I could:


Despite its laid-back script, “Smiley Face” is as prankishly political as Mr. Araki’s “Doom Generation,” evincing a deep unease with the media-saturated capitalist nation that Jane crawls inside her bong to escape.

The film depicts Jane’s habit as pathetic even as it plays for laughs. At the same time, though “Smiley Face” suggests that the “straight” characters Jane encounters — the casting director (Jane Lynch); a bullying beat cop (Michael Shamus Wiles); a college professor’s wife (Marion Ross) from whom Jane steals an original copy of Marx and Engels’s “Communist Manifesto”; a couple of amiably clueless meat delivery men (Danny Trejo and John Cho); the humorless Brevin (John Krasinski of NBC’s “Office”), who likes getting his teeth cleaned because it makes him feel “prosperous” — are in thrall to an even more powerful drug: the myth of the American dream.

At one point Jane, who has somehow ended up at the meat-packing plant that employs the delivery men, deflects a supervisor’s ire by claiming to be a union organizer, then fantasizes launching into a Marxist soliloquy about industrial oppression of labor. Mr. Araki intercuts Jane’s rant with unsettling close-ups of meat being sliced, ground and liquefied.

The film’s title is drawn from a scene in which Jane envisions the sun as a smiley face. The implication is subtle but clear: Americans fancy themselves free-willed strivers who live in the best of all possible worlds, but they’re really sentient vegetables, rooted in comfort and nourished by manufactured images of bliss. Jane’s apathy-as-rebellion recalls a quotation from Stella Adler: “A junkie is someone who uses their body to tell society that something is wrong.”

Note how Jane is intelligent enough to correct her dealer about economic theory early in the movie, when it is revealed that she was a former student who dropped out for reasons unrevealed, and how we are shown her soliloquy in the meat-packing factory as it would be if she wasn't stoned, and then the real version that is garbled beyond recognition in her stoned haze. There is a poignancy to these moments, and to the lyrical ending at the ferris wheel.

And the movie is funny too, directed with real verve by Araki. He takes more aesthetic risks than several of your average Hollywood comedies combined, as does Faris commit to her role in a manner that is genuinely brave.

[Spinal]

An interesting read, but I kind of thought the film wasn't espousing the kind of ideas Seitz mentions so much as using them for the sake of parody. I thought it was gently poking fun at the kind of high-minded political ideas that someone might think are revelatory when they smokin' the chronic.

[Stay Puft]

What would be essential Rivette?

I rented a couple of his movies this month (Secret Defense and Gang of Four) and enjoyed them a fair deal. I had La Belle Noiseuse up next on the queue but it went on "waiting." So what should I hit next? What is imperative, so to speak?

And has anybody seen his new film, Don't Touch the Axe?

[Boner M]

And has anybody seen his new film, Don't Touch the Axe?
It got retitled The Duchess of Langeais for its US release. I fell asleep during it at the Sydney Film Festival, and Benny Profane said something to the effect of that it was one the most tedious films he's seen. It has a lot of good reviews from mainstream critics, surprisingly.

Anyway, watch Celine and Julie post haste!

[Raiders]

What would be essential Rivette?

I rented a couple of his movies this month (Secret Defense and Gang of Four) and enjoyed them a fair deal. I had La Belle Noiseuse up next on the queue but it went on "waiting." So what should I hit next? What is imperative, so to speak?

And has anybody seen his new film, Don't Touch the Axe?

Celine and Julie Go Boating without a doubt.

[Sven]

It has a lot of good reviews from mainstream critics, surprisingly.

Posers.

[monolith94]

For those of you turned off by bad CGI in contemporary live action films, are you also turned off by bad effects like stop-motion, and rear screen projection in older films?

If not, why? The "charm"? Do you give older films a pass on effects and judge newer films more harshly? How old does a film have to be before it gets the effects pass? What about films from other countries with industries not as technologically advanced as Hollywood?

I try to limit my criticism of effects to instances where the film itself is bad. For example, I thought the cgi baby in Children of Men was kind of shoddy, but the film itself was a stand-out. It was easy to overlook. Bad effects in a mediocre or poor film however... of course I'm going to mention the gravy on the crap sandwich!