28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Qrazy]

I like that movie. I like Shelley Duval. I like wet towels. What's the problem here exactly?

Well I haven't finished the film so maybe she gets better but I kind of doubt it. She's just totally inexpressive and bland. 'Hrm the boy I like looks quite injured. I will walk blankly into the room, blink a few times at his bloody visage, passively state You Look Awful, pump some water into a basin and then pass a wet cloth over his forehead.'

[chrisnu]

Thieves Like Us - Shelley Duvall is about as expressive as a wet towel here.
Yeah, I was so indifferent toward the movie as a whole that I've forgotten pretty much all of it. Of course, I saw it over three years ago.

I enjoyed They Live By Night a great deal more.

[B-side]

So I'm having this desire to watch another Powell and Pressburger film despite still not seeing the supposed brilliance of these two. Black Narcissus was a pretty good melodrama. Peeping Tom had some excellent moments, but a very lame central love story and the blind mother was a stupid character. A Matter of Life and Death is up next.

[Yxklyx]

So I'm having this desire to watch another Powell and Pressburger film despite still not seeing the supposed brilliance of these two. Black Narcissus was a pretty good melodrama. Peeping Tom had some excellent moments, but a very lame central love story and the blind mother was a stupid character. A Matter of Life and Death is up next.

My favorites are A Canterbury Tale and The Red Shoes. The first 3/4 of The Tales of Hoffmann are excellent as well - falls apart at the end though.

[megladon8]

Re-watching The Devil's Rejects was great, because it fully opened my eyes to both the strengths and weaknesses of Rob Zombie's films.

Purely as a director, he's phenomenal. His style is palpably energetic and he's one of the few directors who can really make quick-cuts and shaky-cam work to their advantage. He may very well be the first new "auteur" we've seen in the horror genre in nearly 20 years.

However, while not as horrible here as it is in, say, Halloween (and from what I hear, H2), his writing really is horrible. Particularly his dialogue. No distinctive character voices at all - everyone's just in "obscene southern redneck" mode, and his attempts at shocking character interactions lose their power after the first 20 or 30 minutes, because there's nothing in the film to bring us down before the next jump up to extreme levels. The whole movie is super-charged, which really kills the effectiveness of some later scenes.

Anyways, just some brief thoughts. I really like it, and I would probably agree with those who say it's his best film (though some days that could also be House of 1,000 Corpses).

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll say again that he really, really needs to: a) either have a writing partner, or hand his ideas over to someone else for the actual script writing, and b) stop casting his wife, who is horrendous.

[baby doll]

Throw Down is one seriously wacky movie.

[Sycophant]

Throw Down is one seriously wacky movie.

It is. It's got a lot of good in it, though. Glad you liked it.

[Sycophant]

Rewatched Paprika last night for the first time since theaters. It's still great.

[Qrazy]

Yeah Throwdown is a fun film.

[megladon8]

According to two crew members who worked on both of the Transformers movies, Megan Fox is a huge bitch. (http://www.cinematical.com/2009/09/12/transformers-crew-members-absolutely-trash-megan-fox/)



She's as about ungracious a person as you can ever fathom. She shows little interest in the crew members around her. We work to make her look good in every way, but she's absolutely never appreciative of anyone's hard work. Never a thank you. All the crewmembers have stopped saying hi to Ms. Princess because she never says hello back...

...She doesn't know that one of the grips daughters wanted to visit their daddy's work to meet Megan, but he wouldn't let them come because he told them 'she is not nice.'

[Spinal]

Those crew members are whiny babies. Do your damn job, collect your paycheck and quit expecting the lead actress to take an interest in you.

[megladon8]

Those crew members are whiny babies. Do your damn job, collect your paycheck and quit expecting the lead actress to take an interest in you.


Did you read the article?

The things they wrote about her saying on set are pretty trashy, at the very least.

They wrote some things which make it sound like she makes it difficult for them to do their jobs, so I think that's a pretty genuine complaint.

[Spinal]

Did you read the article?

The things they wrote about her saying on set are pretty trashy, at the very least.

Why does this interest you?

[megladon8]

Why does this interest you?


Why do I need to justify myself?

Saw the article on Cinematical, found the letter pretty amusing, so I posted it.

I'm not losing sleep over this, if that's what you're thinking.

[Boner M]

Those crew members are whiny babies. Do your damn job, collect your paycheck and quit expecting the lead actress to take an interest in you.
Yeah, it sounds like it was written by this guy:

http://www.celebrity-gossip.net/images/photos/megan-fox-flower-snub.jpg

I mean, 'Cringe-able'? LOL.

[Boner M]

The Roaring Twenties was fun, zippy entertainment. I though for the first half that I might even prefer it to Angels With Dirty Faces and White Heat, but I thought it moved perhaps a little too quickly; it felt like their was no time to linger over some of the characters and their relationships, which would've given it a boost to greatness. Still, I can't think of a classic Hollywood filmmaker with a greater sense of propulsion than Walsh, nor a more watchable actor than Cagney. An awesome director/actor team.

[Ezee E]

Fairly sure she's not the only actress that is like that.

They do sound whiny, and seem to only talk about things they see from afar without knowing other details. Yes, they worked with her on set, but this is a HUGE set of hundreds of people. Some will never even know that they worked with each other.

I have yet to hear, "Michael Bay is Hitler," in any interview as well.

[Dead & Messed Up]

So what if she's a bitch? There are a lot of bitches in Hollywood. That's a large part of what makes it Hollywood. These guys need to get over themselves.

[number8]

I have yet to hear, "Michael Bay is Hitler," in any interview as well.

This is what Megan Fox said:

"[Michael] wants to create this insane, infamous mad-man reputation. He wants to be like Hitler on his sets, and he is. So he's a nightmare to work for but when you get him away from set, and he's not in director mode, I kind of really enjoy his personality because he's so awkward, so hopelessly awkward. He has no social skills at all. It's endearing to watch him. He's so vulnerable and fragile in real life and then on set, he's a tyrant."

[Mysterious Dude]

I've never seen Megan Fox in anything. Am I missing out?

[transmogrifier]

This is what Megan Fox said:

"[Michael] wants to create this insane, infamous mad-man reputation. He wants to be like Hitler on his sets, and he is. So he's a nightmare to work for but when you get him away from set, and he's not in director mode, I kind of really enjoy his personality because he's so awkward, so hopelessly awkward. He has no social skills at all. It's endearing to watch him. He's so vulnerable and fragile in real life and then on set, he's a tyrant."

Apparently, guys can be assholes, girls can't.

[number8]

Apparently, guys can be assholes, girls cunt.

FTFY.

[Ezee E]

This is what Megan Fox said:

"[Michael] wants to create this insane, infamous mad-man reputation. He wants to be like Hitler on his sets, and he is. So he's a nightmare to work for but when you get him away from set, and he's not in director mode, I kind of really enjoy his personality because he's so awkward, so hopelessly awkward. He has no social skills at all. It's endearing to watch him. He's so vulnerable and fragile in real life and then on set, he's a tyrant."
Basically goes along with what I said.

Why I'm defending Megan Fox, I don't know...

Megan Fox. Armond White. The faces of Match Cut.

[Ivan Drago]

Megan Fox. Armond White. The faces of Match Cut.

Danny Huston?

[Ezee E]

Danny Huston?
Indeed.

[origami_mustache]

This is what Megan Fox said:

"[Michael] wants to create this insane, infamous mad-man reputation. He wants to be like Hitler on his sets, and he is. So he's a nightmare to work for but when you get him away from set, and he's not in director mode, I kind of really enjoy his personality because he's so awkward, so hopelessly awkward. He has no social skills at all. It's endearing to watch him. He's so vulnerable and fragile in real life and then on set, he's a tyrant."

So basically he has a small penis.

[number8]

Stand & Deliver is a fantastic movie.

[balmakboor]

Permanent Vacation(Jim Jarmusch, 1980) - 8.5

Wow! Based on this, I should really give it another look. I'm a HUGE Jarmusch fan, but I found this almost unwatchable.

[number8]

Michael Bay, man of zen.

He took down the crew letter and replaced it with this:


I don't condone the crew letter to Megan. And I don't condone Megan's outlandish quotes. But her crazy quips are part of her crazy charm. The fact of the matter I still love working with her, and I know we still get along. I even expect more crazy quotes from her on Transformers 3.

[Ezee E]

Michael Bay, man of zen.

He took down the crew letter and replaced it with this:
Ha. Have you seen the "Michael Bay twitter"

It's pretty hilarious.

[Winston*]

I watched The Wackness, Derek, 'cos of you. It was okay.

[Boner M]

The Wackness was pretty crappy, although I was accompanied by a drunken NickGlass for the screening, so my opinion is possibly influenced by his profuse scoffing at coming-of-age conventions and sad-song montages.

[Watashi]

NickGlass sounds like one of those people who would scoff out loud during a movie.

[Winston*]

"When I look around me all I see is the dopeness, but all you see is...the wackness."

[Winston*]

I think that Josh Peck is a talented dude btw. Only seen him in this and Mean Creek, very different characters.

[megladon8]

I still don't understand how this racially regressive Tyler Perry bullshit does so well at the box office.

[number8]

Because there are a lot of racially regressive black people.

[megladon8]

Because there are a lot of racially regressive black people.


It's making me want to say something that starts with an "N"...














...negative reinforcement of offensive stereotypes.

[baby doll]

Yeah, it sounds like it was written by this guy:

http://www.celebrity-gossip.net/images/photos/megan-fox-flower-snub.jpgHow did you get my photo?

[Boner M]

How did you get my photo?
When did you get a boob job?

[Derek]

30 minutes of Paul Reubens rambling + Hollywood Cemetery + food and Sapporo + cute date + Pee Wee's Big Adventure = awesome (~80)

[Watashi]

Is that 80 for the cute date or the movie?

[Dead & Messed Up]

30 minutes of Paul Reubens rambling + Hollywood Cemetery + food and Sapporo + cute date + Pee Wee's Big Adventure = awesome (~80)

Dude, you live in LA? I checked out Sleeper at the cemetery a couple months ago. Good times.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, this Ramin Bahrani has done good work already, but he gets significantly better each time. He seems like the modern Vittorio DeSica.

[ledfloyd]

Yeah, this Ramin Bahrani has done good work already, but he gets significantly better each time. He seems like the modern Vittorio DeSica.
i'm a pretty big fan. it was interesting to see him use a more conventional aesthetic in solo. he actually uses close-ups and shot reverse shot. the reason it works though is it suits the story. just as the verite style suited chop shop and man push cart. his next film is a western that takes place in the 1850s. i can't wait.

[B-side]

A Matter of Life and Death was pretty damn great. Definitely my favorite Powell/Pressburger I've seen so far.

http://i32.tinypic.com/e04h9w.jpg

[Grouchy]

What's Up, Doc? is entertaining, but it models itself so lavishly after screwball comedies from the '40s it sometimes made me wish I was watching one of those. This is still admittedly great fun, and the best part are the supporting characters - from the hotel detective who uses his "charm" on an old lady to the concerned judge at the end. Barbara Streissand does a great Katharine Hepburn and Ryan O'Neal a more or less watchable Cary Grant and, although his character is a little far-fetched, he has great one-liners. I won't be watching this again, but good times all the same.

I also watched the DTV Kari Wuhrer movie Poison. I don't know what to say about that beyond admitting it.

[Qrazy]

What's Up, Doc? is entertaining, but it models itself so lavishly after screwball comedies from the '40s it sometimes made me wish I was watching one of those. This is still admittedly great fun, and the best part are the supporting characters - from the hotel detective who uses his "charm" on an old lady to the concerned judge at the end. Barbara Streissand does a great Katharine Hepburn and Ryan O'Neal a more or less watchable Cary Grant and, although his character is a little far-fetched, he has great one-liners. I won't be watching this again, but good times all the same.

I also watched the DTV Kari Wuhrer movie Poison. I don't know what to say about that beyond admitting it.

Have you seen Bogdanovich's Targets? It's a pretty good film and strikes me as something you'd like.

[Boner M]

Have you seen Bogdanovich's Targets? It's a pretty good film and strikes me as something you'd like.
Seconded.

[Derek]

Is that 80 for the cute date or the movie?

The movie. I use the Rosenbaum 4-star scale for dates. ;)


Dude, you live in LA? I checked out Sleeper at the cemetery a couple months ago. Good times.

Live in South Bay, work just north of downtown. I went to a few of the cemetary screenings last year and it's always a great time.

[Raiders]

Pee Wee's Big Adventure (Burton, 1985) 80

That's about right. Still my favorite Burton film.

[NickGlass]

NickGlass sounds like one of those people who would scoff out loud during a movie.

This is not true--Boner has cinematic ESP and could simply read my mind. Or perhaps I made a hand-motion, but I'm a fairly silent film partner. Well, I think I am (?).

All I remember is: I could not help myself from making disrespectful gestures during the (golden) shower sex scene. I'm fairly sure, however, whatever my reaction was, I was being more polite than the film.

[NickGlass]

Pee Wee's Big Adventure (Burton, 1985) 80

I hope that at least 72 of these points are attributed to the Alamo tour and, of course, our tour guide Tina (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxOm497_ohI).

[Qrazy]

Ed Wood FTW.

[dreamdead]

Roeg's The Man Who Fell to Earth does some truly interesting metatextual references with film to suggest mood (Bowie watching The Third Man in a nod to his existential crisis) and some of the camerawork displays his typical inventiveness, but this might be the first film of his where the crosscutting felt hackneyed and lazy rather than elucidating. Some of the cuts between Japanese theatre and sex are overt and disruptive in an obvious way; of far more interest, however, are those scenes that comment on Bowie's utterly stranded psychology and wayward demeanor, which Roeg does contextualize well in that final shot, which is iconographic in its own way. Similarly, the low-fi aesthetic with regard to his home planet works better than I anticipated. The central problems, then, lie in the perpetual distancing effect that Bowie's performance and Roeg's editing achieves, which leaves the film colder than necessary, and in the limp love relation, which never offers any transformative potential. Decent, but bringing in the rear for Roeg's filmography for me...

[Derek]

That's about right. Still my favorite Burton film.

I'm leaning that way myself now.


I hope that at least 72 of these points are attributed to the Alamo tour and, of course, our tour guide Tina (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxOm497_ohI).

Best line in the entire film: "Inez is holding a clay pot, of which she seems to be very proud."

[Grouchy]

Have you seen Bogdanovich's Targets? It's a pretty good film and strikes me as something you'd like.
That the Boris Karloff one? I haven't seen it, but you're right,I'd really like to.

The Last Picture Show is impressive, by the way. Excellent film about the love for cinema.

[Spun Lepton]

All right, which Match-Cutters helped Tyler Perry Presents a Tyler Perry production of Tyler Perry's I Can Do Bad All By My Tyler Perry Self Tyler Perry make it to #1 this weekend?

You're on my list.

Tyler Perry.

[Mara]

What's Up, Doc? is entertaining, but it models itself so lavishly after screwball comedies from the '40s it sometimes made me wish I was watching one of those. This is still admittedly great fun, and the best part are the supporting characters - from the hotel detective who uses his "charm" on an old lady to the concerned judge at the end. Barbara Streissand does a great Katharine Hepburn and Ryan O'Neal a more or less watchable Cary Grant and, although his character is a little far-fetched, he has great one-liners. I won't be watching this again, but good times all the same.

It has a superlative chase scene through San Francisco.

My favorite characters are the always-reliable Madeline Khan (in her screen debut, if I remember correctly) and the underestimated Kenneth Mars. He's a great voice actor, but has a wonderful screen presence as well.

[Ezee E]

Have any MCers watched a Tyler Perry movie?

[Derek]

Have any MCers watched a Tyler Perry movie?

I've seen Madea's Family Reunion. It so awful and hypocritical that I would recommend people check it out. And if the sit-com is dead, Perry's shows on TBS are its stinking, rotting corpse raised from the grave.

[Sycophant]

Have any MCers watched a Tyler Perry movie?

I once watched Why Did I Get Married?, but gave up after 28 minutes, because I kept forgetting I was watching it.

[Watashi]

I once watched Why Did I Get Married?, but gave up after 28 minutes, because I kept forgetting I was watching it.
More like Why Did I Watch This?, amirite?

[Dead & Messed Up]

I'm very curious to watch one of them. Although he's got somewhat questionable production tactics (his TV shows are non-union, so the cast/crews are supposedly worked ragged), Perry certainly seems earnest about his subject matter, and he's clearly tapped into a market.

I figure I'll keep mostly ignoring his stuff, he'll keep making them, and we'll both be alright.

[Derek]

Perry certainly seems earnest about his subject matter, and he's clearly tapped into a market.

So did Leni Reifenstahl.

[Dead & Messed Up]

So did Leni Reifenstahl.

Ohp! I was just

http://www.smsdesign.net/images/Godwin.jpg

[Qrazy]

So did Leni Reifenstahl.

Except she was a stronger formalist. :)

[Derek]

Except she was a stronger formalist. :)

But her lack of cross-dressing, physically abusive, fundamentalist Christian grandmothers takes her down a notch.

[Qrazy]

But her lack of cross-dressing, physically abusive, fundamentalist Christian grandmothers takes her down a notch.

Well, nobody is perfect.

[megladon8]

I re-watched The Ninth Gate and still really, really like it.

I would even say it's my second or third favorite Polanski film.

[balmakboor]

I re-watched The Night Gate and still really, really like it.

I would even say it's my second or third favorite Polanski film.

You mean the Ninth Gate? I've been meaning to see that one.

[megladon8]

You mean the Ninth Gate? I've been meaning to see that one.


Yes, I mean that.

Sorry...I wrote that within about 2 minutes of waking up :lol:

[megladon8]

I honestly don't understand the horrible rep The Ninth Gate has.

Goofy fight scene aside, it's beautifully filmed, well-acted, and manages to be quite creepy.

I think it's fantastic.

[Raiders]

I remember finding Ninth Gate insufferably cheeky. The whole thing seemed like a tongue-in-cheek exercise that never managed to interest or entertain me in the least. It was a very, very strange movie and one I have forgotten almost entirely. I'm halfway interested in seeing it again, but there just isn't time to bother.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I remember finding Ninth Gate insufferably cheeky. The whole thing seemed like a tongue-in-cheek exercise that never managed to interest or entertain me in the least. It was a very, very strange movie and one I have forgotten almost entirely. I'm halfway interested in seeing it again, but there just isn't time to bother.

This is how I felt. I also didn't find anything even remotely creepy. Just dull.

[megladon8]

I don't understand the description of it being cheeky. Could you explain?

I thought it was quite an interesting look at the "evils" present in religious belief, and how they both can and cannot translate to the modern world.

It was also a great love letter to books as art and education. Remember that...

...Balkan (Frank Langella's character) is the head of a massive book publishing company (like a fictional Harper Collins or Signet) and he was unable to unlock the secrets of the pages because he was in it for selfish power. Even Lucifer himself wouldn't honor Balkan's desire to meet him, because Balkan was unworthy.

Corso (Depp) however was in it for knowledge. Well, originally it was the money Balkan was paying him, but by the end of the film he had developed the same intense obsession over the pages that Balkan had, except Corso wanted to know things, whereas Balkan just wanted power. In the end, Corso finds the final authentic page and is allowed through the Ninth Gate, because he was more worthy of Lucifer's company than Balkan was.


I loved that there were no good, honorable characters in the film, which really fit with its themes of Satanism and Lucifer's influence over the world and the characters in the story. Even Corso, our protagonist, is kind of a scumbag. In our very first scene with him (and the first scene of the film) he lies to a grieving couple about the value of the book collection they've inherited, simply to screw over another "book detective" like himself.

I found it a fascinating look at the power of knowledge, and as I said earlier, the ways in which religion's hold on society has both changed and stayed the same over the course of the last few centuries.

[megladon8]

While I've admittedly seen much too little from him, this is how I'd rank/rate Polanski's films...


1.) Repulsion - 10
2.) The Pianist - 9
3.) The Ninth Gate - 8.5
4.) Frantic - 7
5.) Chinatown - 6
6.) Rosemary's Baby - 5

[balmakboor]

While I've admittedly seen much too little from him, this is how I'd rank/rate Polanski's films...


1.) Repulsion - 10
2.) The Pianist - 9
3.) The Ninth Gate - 8.5
4.) Frantic - 7
5.) Chinatown - 6
6.) Rosemary's Baby - 5

Well, I was right with you until you started doing crazy stuff like rating Frantic higher than Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby.

Definitely check out Bitter Moon (kinky fun), Tess (gorgeous but Kinski doesn't quite pull it off), and The Tenent (creepy personal favorite).

[Dead & Messed Up]

Trivia of the day: I was reading up on Conan the Destroyer, which I haven't seen in well over a decade, and (a) I realized how Lovecraftian the monster is, and (b) that the monster (Dagoth) was portrayed by none other than Andre the flippin' Giant!

Awesome.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4726/dagothmostrobn1.gif

[megladon8]

Well, I was right with you until you started doing crazy stuff like rating Frantic higher than Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby.

Chinatown is a good movie which I feel may be one of the most over-praised of all time.

Rosemary's Baby is a mediocre movie which I feel similarly about.



Definitely check out Bitter Moon (kinky fun), Tess (gorgeous but Kinski doesn't quite pull it off), and The Tenent (creepy personal favorite).

I definitely want to see more from him. Particularly The Tenant since I read the book.

[megladon8]

Josh Olsen (writer of the A History of Violence script) pens an article entitled "I will not read your fucking script." (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/09/i_will_not_read.php)

[Boner M]

^Could see where that was going, so in turn, I will not read your fucking article, John!

[Dead & Messed Up]

Josh Olsen (writer of the A History of Violence script) pens an article entitled "I will not read your fucking script." (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/09/i_will_not_read.php)

There was more discussion on this in the Writer's Thread.

[MadMan]

Chinatown is a good movie which I feel may be one of the most over-praised of all time.

Rosemary's Baby is a mediocre movie which I feel similarly about.:| and more of :| times :|, which equals :| to the millionth power :|

[Boner M]

Pusher 3 - Initially I thought the bloodbath climax was ill-advised for at first after the subdued/lurid Killing of a Chinese Bookie-esque ambience of the first hour, but the longer it goes on, the more it became apparent to me that we're asked to read it on a metaphysical level. Still incredibly blunt (esp. the final shot), but undeniably effective and haunting. Stunning central performance.

[balmakboor]

The House Next Door has been having a Brian De Palma blog-o-thon and I was just over there reading through it. I gotta say. De Palma was my first favorite director back in the early '80s and I still think he's pretty fucking great. One guy put together a video montage of stuff from Hi, Mom, Carrie, and Scarface and it made me want to drop everything and re-watch all three.

It was fun to read posts by others who love Mission to Mars and Redacted. Sometimes I think I'm the only one.

[Grouchy]

I also like The Ninth Gate a great deal, but let's not get crazy here and start calling Rosemary's Baby mediocre or anything.

[Boner M]

It feels like there's De Palma blog-o-thon every week somewhere.

[B-side]

I'm thinking Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters is in store for tonight. Thoughts?

[Derek]

I'm thinking Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters is in store for tonight. Thoughts?

I think it's a fine idea. I haven't seen the film so your response may well affect its placement in my Netflix queue.

[BuffaloWilder]

Well, now don't I feel like a douche. I haven't checked the site's email for two days, and it seems I got an email from somebody working on publicity for Cory McAbee's newest film, Stingray Sam. Apparently, it was premiering at Sundance the following day, which was yesterday, and online, and she'd wanted me to review it, I suppose.

But, I missed it. Because I was sick.

:frustrated:

[Qrazy]

I'm thinking Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters is in store for tonight. Thoughts?

My thoughts are how about watching your film swap film from the film swap you initiated instead.

[Qrazy]

I think it's a fine idea. I haven't seen the film so your response may well affect its placement in my Netflix queue.

It's pretty good, interesting and unique subject matter and the film develops a strong inertia over it's run time. Schrader isn't much of a visualist but he's relatively decent here. Makes me want to see American Gigolo. Cat People sucks hard though.

[transmogrifier]

The Ninth Gate is one of the worst films I have ever seen.

[Kurious Jorge v3.1]

After seeing Whistle Down the Wind tonight, I think I have seen enough "kids find things in a barn that they misinterpret as other things and hide it from the adults" films to last a lifetime.

Now watching I Shot Jesse James while icing my shoulder and drinking 5 hour energy drink.

[Raiders]

It was fun to read posts by others who love Mission to Mars and Redacted. Sometimes I think I'm the only one.

Nope!

[megladon8]

I don't understand the description of it being cheeky. Could you explain?


*cough*

[Raiders]

It's been a long time meg, so specifics aren't easy. I just remember there being quite a bit of off-kilter humor. A little kitsch thrown in if you will. Polanski oftens heightens drama/horror to the point of absurdity and comes away with more than a little wink. I just wasn't very impressed with the whole production. The film felt imbalanced.

[MadMan]

Raiders where is your avatar from? I keep squinting at it, trying to make out what's going on, and I can't quite tell.

Also I'm currently rewatching all of the Wallace and Gromit short films. A Grand Day Out is still my favorite of theirs, and is a joy to behold. Love the part where the robot is skiing on the moon.

[Qrazy]

Raiders where is your avatar from? I keep squinting at it, trying to make out what's going on, and I can't quite tell.

Also I'm currently rewatching all of the Wallace and Gromit short films. A Grand Day Out is still my favorite of theirs, and is a joy to behold. Love the part where the robot is skiing on the moon.

Songs from the Second Floor

[Raiders]

Raiders where is your avatar from? I keep squinting at it, trying to make out what's going on, and I can't quite tell.

As Qrazy said, Songs from the Second Floor. It's the image of an impossibly long line of customers dragging their luggage from the terminal desk to the exit. It's a brilliantly absurd moment (one of many in Andersson's film).

[megladon8]

Matt Zaller may just be the best celebrity interviewer working right now. (http://www.cinematical.com/2009/09/16/watch-matt-zallers-creepy-awkward-celeb-interviews/)

[Kurosawa Fan]

Matt Zaller may just be the best celebrity interviewer working right now. (http://www.cinematical.com/2009/09/16/watch-matt-zallers-creepy-awkward-celeb-interviews/)

He has nothing on Galifianakis' Between Two Ferns. Also, Megan Fox seemed very cool in that interview. She played along with his nonsense all the while seeming to enjoy herself. Someone who was a total bitch wouldn't act that way. She'd be above that type of behavior.

[megladon8]

He has nothing on Galifianakis' Between Two Ferns. Also, Megan Fox seemed very cool in that interview. She played along with his nonsense all the while seeming to enjoy herself. Someone who was a total bitch wouldn't act that way. She'd be above that type of behavior.


Yeah, she seemed pretty chill about it.

[Winston*]

I saw Walk Hard. This is a better film than Walk the Line but not as good a film as Die Hard.

[Boner M]

The final shot of The Holy Girl stands as both one of the most serene and troubling images I've ever seen in a film. All the praise I'd heard about Martel is true, even if she does seem to borrow a lot from Claire Denis. La Cienega is up next.

[Ivan Drago]

I saw Walk Hard. This is a better film than Walk the Line but not as good a film as Die Hard.

"Man, fuck nobility!"
"Fuck ancient Egypt!"
"Fuck....cats!"

:lol:

[The Mike]

I saw Walk Hard. This is a better film than Walk the Line but not as good a film as Die Hard.It's rare I agree with an entire post. But this one, like gravy on a biscuit, is all good.

[EyesWideOpen]

He has nothing on Galifianakis' Between Two Ferns. Also, Megan Fox seemed very cool in that interview. She played along with his nonsense all the while seeming to enjoy herself. Someone who was a total bitch wouldn't act that way. She'd be above that type of behavior.

Have you seen the recent Charlize Theron one? I had no idea she was that awesome.

[Ivan Drago]

It's rare I agree with an entire post. But this one, like gravy on a biscuit, is all good.

It's one of the most underrated comedies of the decade, and my 2nd favorite Apatow film of the decade, right behind Superbad.

[MadMan]

Walk Hard is better than many actual biopics, even though its a straight up parody. My favorite scene is when Reilly trips on PCP and runs through the streets like a madman, fighting the police.

[Ivan Drago]

Walk Hard is better than many actual biopics, even though its a straight up parody. My favorite scene is when Reilly trips on PCP and runs through the streets like a madman, fighting the police.

I couldn't tell you what my favorite scene is. Either rehab ("I'M HOT AND COLD AT THE SAME TIME!!!"), the acid trip, his band members telling him off, the sink pullings....so many candidates. Hell the whole movie could be 2 hours of sink pullings and it'd still be hilarious. I also couldn't see anyone else in the lead other than John C. Reilly.

[B-side]

I think it's a fine idea. I haven't seen the film so your response may well affect its placement in my Netflix queue.

It's great, and visually phenomenal. I'll grab some caps and entice you.

[B-side]

Mishima caps:


http://i32.tinypic.com/2hd60if.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/20jrech.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/mkukqb.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/14dkbxt.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/1z6zf5l.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/9jnlhy.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/2wnpn29.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/900siw.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/m8367o.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/25jhyjt.jpg

[origami_mustache]

I love screen caps...we should have a thread dedicated to them.

[B-side]

I love screen caps...we should have a thread dedicated to them.

As do I. Maybe if you start the thread, they will come?

[Boner M]

Weekend

The Fall of Otrar
Reflections of Evil
The Life of Oharu (rpt)
Historie(s) du Cinema (hopefully this time... it just looks so daunting)
Accident (not the Joseph Losey; new HK crime flick hot off Venice/Toronto)

[Raiders]

Weekend:

Jeanne Dielman
Masters of Horror: Chocolate
California Split

[Qrazy]

Weekend

[b]The Fall of Otrar


Damn, you might watch this before I get to. Perhaps I should watch it this weekend as well.

[Justin]

After watching Hard Target again today at work, I am pretty certain that the film was made with a little bit of intentional "unintentional" humor, almost as if Raimi had a decent amount of influence with the film. I came to this conclusion after watching the scene of Wilford Brimley riding away in a horse while a building exploded behind him, absolutely brilliant. I really need to buy that movie.

[Ivan Drago]

Weekend:

The Informant!
9
Ponyo
Cloudy With A Chance of Meatballs

[Rowland]

After watching Hard Target again today at work, I am pretty certain that the film was made with a little bit of intentional "unintentional" humor, almost as if Raimi had a decent amount of influence with the film. I came to this conclusion after watching the scene of Wilford Brimley riding away in a horse while a building exploded behind hem, absolutely brilliant. I really need to buy that movie.Yeah, it's a cheesy blast. The action sequences shame most of what's released these days as well.

[Watashi]

Who else besides Rowland really loved Gerry?

What an hypnotizing film. Truly astonishing.

[Raiders]

Who else besides Rowland really loved Gerry?

What an hypnotizing film. Truly astonishing.

:: raises hand ::

[BuffaloWilder]

Man, why was weather continuity such a big problem for, like, every film pre-1989? It's strange.

[BuffaloWilder]

Man, why was weather continuity such a big problem for, like, every film pre-1989? It's strange.

[megladon8]

You know what I've often wondered?

Why was weather continuity such a big problem for movies pre-1989?

[Raiders]

Man, why was weather continuity such a big problem for, like, every film pre-1989? It's strange.

Huh?

[BuffaloWilder]

You know what I've often wondered?

Why was weather continuity such a big problem for movies pre-1989?

Internet acting up. Cut out while I posted it the first time. Pressed button after it had reset. Posted twice.

Hmm.

[Ezee E]

Who else besides Rowland really loved Gerry?

What an hypnotizing film. Truly astonishing.
Is there anyone on Match Cut that hates it? I'm pretty sure everyone who's seen it here loves it.

I prefer Elephant out of that trilogy.

[Kurious Jorge v3.1]

Is there anyone on Match Cut that hates it?

Me. It was rubbish.


On another note, I cannot get Import/Export out of my head! The nursing home scenes were unreal and I haven't felt that unnerved watching scenes like that since Titicut Follies

Also, Leon Morin, Pretre was quite excellent for having a completely miscast, goofy Belmondo as a priest in Nazi-occupied France. This film does a better job at portraying the German (and Italian) armies as a bit inept with a deft touch of light comedy than the uber-cartoonish portrayal in Inglorious Basterds. I love the part where Belmondo tells Rivas she needs a husband and she replies "Nevermind, I just do it with a bit of stick." GROSS!

[Qrazy]

It's great, and visually phenomenal. I'll grab some caps and entice you.

The art design is very good. The cinematography and visual flow is quite good but not particularly excellent imo.

[Qrazy]

Why does that matter?

It doesn't especially but I was the first one to mention it on the site (but haven't ended up watching it yet) and so if it turns out to be any good it's fun to be the first one to champion a hidden gem.

[Qrazy]

Is there anyone on Match Cut that hates it? I'm pretty sure everyone who's seen it here loves it.

I prefer Elephant out of that trilogy.

I like it but I certainly don't love it. I'm not very taken with Van Sant in general. But I usually get something out of most of his work.

[Qrazy]

Me. It was rubbish.


On another note, I cannot get Import/Export out of my head! The nursing home scenes were unreal and I haven't felt that unnerved watching scenes like that since Titicut Follies

Also, Leon Morin, Pretre was quite excellent for having a completely miscast, goofy Belmondo as a priest in Nazi-occupied France. This film does a better job at portraying the German (and Italian) armies as a bit inept with a deft touch of light comedy than the uber-cartoonish portrayal in Inglorious Basterds. I love the part where Belmondo tells Rivas she needs a husband and she replies "Nevermind, I just do it with a bit of stick." GROSS!

Falstaff aka Chimes at Midnight (Welles - '65) 66

Why not higher?

[MadMan]

Finally saw Observe and Report. What a weird, funny, oddball movie. There were moments of greatness, and also moments of stupidity. I liked it in the end, but I'm still digesting what I really feel about the whole thing. Thoughts to come in the thread based on it, whenever I get around to using the search engine and bumping a thread about a movie released months ago.

[Bosco B Thug]

WEEKEND: Exte, The Legend of Hell House, Close Encounters of the Third Kind

Saw this documentary by respected 60s independent filmmaker Shirley Clarke called Portrait of Jason, which is pretty much an hour and forty-five minute interview with a 1960s-living black, gay, one-time hustler, now aspiring nightclub owner and performer. It is fascinating subject matter, and a knowingly intrusive probe into this man's life, who tells it all with touching honesty (as he gets progressively drunker and soon breaks out a joint), but ultimately, it's a monotonous exercise that, at some points, begins to smack of injudiciousness, not only in running time but in how freely and without guidance they let this man bare his soul in service of their austere little exercise.

[kuehnepips]

Weekend: JCVD

I'm serious.

[balmakboor]

Weekend: JCVD

I'm serious.

Why wouldn't you be? I've heard it's a really good film.

[Spinal]

I've been watching Deadwood lately, so I'll probably watch more of that. Might take the boy to the Meatballs movie. And 9 and District 9 are playing down the street. Might see one of those.

[Ezee E]

Weekend:
Sin Nombre
State of Play

Gamer? The Informant? Jennifer's Body?

It got bad reviews, but I'd really like to see The Burning Plain if it gets a better release.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Weekend:
The Host
The Third Man

I'm packing for a big trip, though, so maybe not.

[number8]

Weekend:

Drunken birthday party.

Oh, wait, I mean I'll be watching/writing about these movies:

Capitalism: A Love Story
Zatoichi
Iron Monkey
Mad Monster Party

[Yxklyx]

Minor thoughts on recent viewings:

Adventureland - ok but I've seen this movie before.
Duplicity - wasn't as bored as others here were, I found it somewhat entertaining.
I Want to Live! - fairly decent - I loved the detailed gas chamber setup procedure.
Two Lovers - loved this one a lot - brilliant and fresh execution of a story I've seen before.
I Know Where I'm Going (rewatch) - very talky but love the interplay of characters and the ending. I really dig Wendy Hiller.
Payday - excellent road movie - who says characters need to change over the course of a movie.
Run Lola Run (rewatch) - top 100
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (rewatch) - top 100
The Friends of Eddie Coyle - great to see Mitchum in color. Loved the attention to detail of the minor characters.
Michael Clayton - kind of meh
Charley Varrick - didn't care much for it - was ok.
The Sugarland Express - liked this one a lot. The ending with Goldie screaming her head off and the car ending up in a river! Excellent!
Quadrophenia (rewatch) - top 100
Silent Light - One of the best new movies I've seen this year. Reminded me of old school cinema yet at the same time very refreshing.
The Day of the Locust - kind of a mess with narrative but enough meat on the bones for me to enjoy it - especially that apocalyptic ending!
Jana Aranya - one of the best Ray films - up there with Mahanagar. Similar themes to that in The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit but very different in execution.

[Qrazy]

The Day of the Locust - kind of a mess with narrative but enough meat on the bones for me to enjoy it - especially that apocalyptic ending!


How so?

[Grouchy]

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/00/79/01/image_5501790.jpg

Wow, The Hustler is the shit. Certainly, nothing in its sequel The Color of Money (one of the few movies where it can be argued that Marty just phoned it in) had prepared me for it. Rossen directs this with a naturalistic flair that allows scenes to develop long enough to create a huge impression of tension and despair in the viewer, and the bleak b&w cinematography is excellent. Newman's performance would probably be his best if it weren't for Hud, where he also schools pretty much every other actor of his generation, and the turns of George C. Scott and Piper Laurie, who provides the heart of the tale (can't believe she went on to portray Carrie's mother), are also miraculous.

But what really creates such a lasting impression about this film is the characters. As I wrote regarding a '70s James Caan movie in my VHS review thread, old Hollywood dramas gave their characters room to be alive. Their reactions weren't always what the script called for - they were their own. A character such as "Fast" Eddie Nelson, with his penchant for neat scotch and self-absorbed focus, wouldn't be possible in a contemporary movie, where the script has to sell us information that's essential to the plot every single minute. Rossen wisely ends his movie in a scene that challenges our investment in the story. It's a traditional happy ending for a sports movie, where our hero beats his rival, but in fact, it's a supremely pessimistic ending from a human point of view. It makes me want to rewatch The Color of Money to see if the script also had this depth regarding Nelson's character.

[Pop Trash]

Silent Light - One of the best new movies I've seen this year. Reminded me of old school cinema yet at the same time very refreshing.


I made a valid attempt to watch this last night. Despite having the most awesome sunrise shot I think I've ever seen, I just couldn't get into it. It's one of those films where two people stare off into the clouds for a couple minutes before saying some dialogue gem like "I think the tractor needs a new fan belt." I think I managed to watch about 45 minutes of it.

[Grouchy]

I made a valid attempt to watch this last night. Despite having the most awesome sunrise shot I think I've ever seen, I just couldn't get into it. It's one of those films where two people stare off into the clouds for a couple minutes before saying some dialoge gem like "I think the tractor needs a new fan belt." I think I managed to watch about 45 minutes of it.
Yeah, it's pretty terrible.

I've already told this story like 40 times in here, but when I attended a Q&A with the director I asked him about the sunrise shot. He circled around the thing without answering before saying (when another audience member repeated my question) that he prefered to keep the technical things "a mystery".

He probably can't even be praised for that technical achievement.

[balmakboor]

Yeah, it's pretty terrible.

I've already told this story like 40 times in here, but when I attended a Q&A with the director I asked him about the sunrise shot. He circled around the thing without answering before saying (when another audience member repeated my question) that he prefered to keep the technical things "a mystery".

He probably can't even be praised for that technical achievement.

I plan to watch this over the weekend and decide if it's on or off my wishlist for our film series.

On another note, I started watching The Wayward Cloud last night and definitely plan to watch all of it this weekend. Crazy stuff with a watermelon.

[Pop Trash]

Yeah, it's pretty terrible.

I've already told this story like 40 times in here, but when I attended a Q&A with the director I asked him about the sunrise shot. He circled around the thing without answering before saying (when another audience member repeated my question) that he prefered to keep the technical things "a mystery".

He probably can't even be praised for that technical achievement.

Well that wouldn't really bother me. It's the type of thing Lynch would say. Actually lots of filmmakers are elusive like that.

[transmogrifier]

I wonder if I'm one of the only people around here who couldn't care less what any director at all says about any of their films. If they would just release the films, and then go on and make the next one, that would be great. This goes for every director including (especially?) the ones I really like.

The only time I will read an interview with a director is when it is one of those career retrospective-slash-gossip pieces.

[Adam]

I totally wish I could get on board with that and I agree with the sentiment, but sometimes it's hard. Like when Spike Lee just comes out and says no, there's only one way to read that scene in Do The Right Thing where Mookie throws his garbage can, it kinda takes away from whatever personal reading you had. And I mean screw Spike Lee for shitting on people's interpretations like that and ultimately you shouldn't listen, but still. I don't care to see Silent Light, but I do think it's generally cool when filmmakers leave it up to their audiences to determine what things mean in their movies

[number8]

I love Zatoichi so much. Looks fucking great on bluray.

[Izzy Black]

I totally wish I could get on board with that and I agree with the sentiment, but sometimes it's hard. Like when Spike Lee just comes out and says no, there's only one way to read that scene in Do The Right Thing where Mookie throws his garbage can, it kinda takes away from whatever personal reading you had. And I mean screw Spike Lee for shitting on people's interpretations like that and ultimately you shouldn't listen, but still. I don't care to see Silent Light, but I do think it's generally cool when filmmakers leave it up to their audiences to determine what things mean in their movies

I mean, you are entitled to a relativistic opinion of cinema, but I don't think Lee should be faulted for thinking people should interpret his movie one way, especially if there's something specific he's trying to accomplish with it. You can disagree with this approach to filmmaking, but does it really warrant disregard or offense?

[number8]

Directors are allowed to say they meant their movies a certain way and that people are taking it wrong.

I'm allowed to disagree and disregard whatever they say.

Tucker Max just released a press statement today saying I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell is not misogynistic, it is in fact "pro-women." He can go fuck himself.

[Izzy Black]

Directors are allowed to say they meant their movies a certain way and that people are taking it wrong.

I'm allowed to disagree and disregard whatever they say.

Tucker Max just released a press statement today saying I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell is not misogynistic, it is in fact "pro-women." He can go fuck himself.

What I'm saying is, why say "screw" Spike Lee if he thinks you shouldn't interpret his movie one way? Obviously I'm not taking issue with disagreement, otherwise I'd say we should all agree with everything a director says, but I'm not.

[number8]

Interestingly enough, I agree with Spike Lee's interpretation of Do the Right Thing. I do think that it's a dumb and racist film. We'd get along.

[Izzy Black]

Tucker Max just released a press statement today saying I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell is not misogynistic, it is in fact "pro-women." He can go fuck himself.

Maybe that's offensive (I don't necessarily think so), but is it offensive for Spike Lee to think that we shouldn't interpret his movies in different ways? Is it really that bothersome? He worked his ass off making the movie so I'd say it shouldn't ruffle our feathers up too much that he thinks his opinion is authoritative. It seems more like a theoretical disagreement rather than a moral one (as in the case of Tucker.)

[Izzy Black]

Interestingly enough, I agree with Spike Lee's interpretation of Do the Right Thing. I do think that it's a dumb and racist film. We'd get along.

Um, OK.

[Adam]

I mean, you are entitled to a relativistic opinion of cinema, but I don't think Lee should be faulted for thinking people should interpret his movie one way, especially if there's something specific he's trying to accomplish with it. You can disagree with this approach to filmmaking, but does it really warrant disregard or offense?

I dunno. I think that once someone's made a piece of art, it's out of their hands what people think about it. Sticking with Lee, for example, a lot of his latter films have suffered precisely because they've been too heavy handed and completely closed to any kind of separate interpretation. You know, I realize a lot films are meant to be taken a certain way, but it seems to me most of the best "message movies" are pretty ambiguous in whatever message they're dealing in and that makes sense to me

[number8]

Maybe that's offensive (I don't necessarily think so), but is it offensive for Spike Lee to think that we shouldn't interpret his movies in different ways? Is it really that bothersome? He worked his ass off making the movie so I'd say it shouldn't ruffle our feathers up too much that he thinks his opinion is authoritative. It seems more like a theoretical disagreement rather than a moral one (as in the case of Tucker.)

It's not offensive. It's not like I get angered that the director doesn't agree with my interpretation. It's just false of them to assume that authority, even if they're the authors, so I don't really place their interpretation higher than mine. I do take it into account. In the case of Tucker Max, I take it into account that he's a delusional idiot, and that's also a reflection of his film.

[Izzy Black]

I dunno. I think that once someone's made a piece of art, it's out of their hands what people think about it. Sticking with Lee, for example, a lot of his latter films have suffered precisely because they've been too heavy handed and completely closed to any kind of separate interpretation. You knwo, I realize a lot films are meant to be taken a certain way, but it seems to me most of the best "message movies" are pretty ambiguous in whatever message they're dealing in and that makes sense to me

I actually agree with you. I'm not really talking about the theoretical divide here, nor am I defending Spike Lee's stance. I just took issue with your characterization of him for having this opinion. You said "screw him" and dismissed him out of hand as if he didn't know what the hell he's talking about. I understand the disagreement and I actually side with you on this, but I don't think we should be offended by Lee's opinion on the matter. I don't think he's just "shitting" on other interpretations, I think he just comes from the intentionalist school of thought where there is a right and wrong interpretation of a film.

For example, I attended one of his lectures where someone asked whether the end of the 25th Hour really happened and Lee responded, "No it was a dream." The guy was perplexed and thought he didn't actually go to jail and Lee was like, "No his ass is in jail. That's part of the main punch of the movie." So, although I am more liberal in my reading of movies than Lee might be, there is at least some gravity in his stance. It's not just an offensive close-mindedness, but a valid approach to movies, I think, even if I disagree.

[Izzy Black]

It's not offensive. It's not like I get angered that the director doesn't agree with my interpretation. It's just false of them to assume that authority, even if they're the authors, so I don't really place their interpretation higher than mine. I do take it into account. In the case of Tucker Max, I take it into account that he's a delusional idiot, and that's also a reflection of his film.

You might not need to call it offense, but as I explain in my above post, I am concerned with some of the language used in the disagreement. If you are saying "Fuck Spike Lee" for his view, then not only are you no better than he, but you're worse.

[Adam]

You said "screw him" and dismissed him out of hand as if he didn't know what the hell he's talking about.


What I'm saying is, why say "screw" Spike Lee if he thinks you shouldn't interpret his movie one way?

Well, I don't really dislike Spike Lee. I meant for my "screw him" comment to be interpreted in more of an offhand sorta way and I'm sorry you interpreted it another way, but your interpretation was completely wrong

Actually, you know what, scratch all that. I do hate Spike Lee for his total abandonment of my beloved Knicks last season. So you're a Lakers fan now, Spike? Really?

[Izzy Black]

Well, I don't really dislike Spike Lee. I meant for my "screw him" comment to be interpreted in more of an offhand sorta way and I'm sorry you interpreted it another way, but your interpretation was completely wrong

LOL.


Actually, you know what, scratch all that. I do hate Spike Lee for is his total abandonment of my beloved Knicks last season. So you're a Lakers fan now, Spike? Really?

Owned.

[Izzy Black]

Why are you a retired movie buff now, Israfel?

I don't know. I've thought about it for a while. It's a combination of a few things, I think. The obvious first is that I don't have as much time anymore because of career life. The second, more alarmingly, is that I lack the motivation to see movies even when I have the time. I've had two netflix movies at my place for over 6 months that I've attempted and fail to watch. (Birth of a Nation rewatch and Angelopoulos' The Weeping Meadow). I can't recall the last foreign movie I've seen. (Hell, the last movie I even saw with subtitles was The Wind that Shakes the Barely on DVD with English subtitles on.) The best movie I've seen recently is 500 Days of Summer (which I've been told, in my normal non-movie deprived self, I would loathe this movie), and if that doesn't tell you how sad my cinephilia state is, then I don't know what does.

[Izzy Black]

Oh, I always thought (assumed?) you were a graduate student who studied film so it would thereby be nearly impossible for you to lose the film bug. I think you mentioned that before but I could be wrong.

Ha ha ha. You think film academics have to watch movies? I've seen enough to wax intellectual about for many years to come. Oh yes, I'm a hack academic too. It's sad - intellectual poverty (and dishonesty).

[Izzy Black]

This makes me think of a comment that Bordwell once made. Something to the effect of 'there are a lot of film scholars who would be perfectly content to never talk about actual films again for the rest of their career, but I'm not one of them'.

He's passionate - a great model and inspiration for many, but the rest of us are disingenuous and disaffected politicians shamelessly (or shamefully) striving to get tenure by any means necessary.


But, yeah, I did kind of assume that film academics and movie watching kind of go hand in hand to some extent. But I suppose you bring up a good, but probably facetious, point here...

I'm pretty confident I've got enough juice to write (the same thing in different ways) about Antonioni for another 40 years without having to watch another film again, or even acknowledge contemporary cinema as a whole.

[Grouchy]

I wonder if I'm one of the only people around here who couldn't care less what any director at all says about any of their films. If they would just release the films, and then go on and make the next one, that would be great. This goes for every director including (especially?) the ones I really like.

The only time I will read an interview with a director is when it is one of those career retrospective-slash-gossip pieces.
No, I agree with you. The Spike Lee comment is the perfect example on why the directors should refrain from talking about the meaning of their own films.

However, when you're asked a simple technical question by someone who could be genuinely interested in the craft of making movies, you give a random, unrelated answer and then when you're asked again about the same thing you refuse to answer, my guess is you really don't want to admit you don't know the answer.

It's not about the meaning of the shot. I praise Lynch for letting every audience member have his own interpretation. It's a technical question, and Reygadas is not a magician, he's a film director. I see no reason to keep stuff like that "a mystery".

[Grouchy]

Man, why was weather continuity such a big problem for, like, every film pre-1989? It's strange.
Eh, case in point?

[Izzy Black]

No, I agree with you. The Spike Lee comment is the perfect example on why the directors should refrain from talking about the meaning of their own films.

However, when you're asked a simple technical question by someone who could be genuinely interested in the craft of making movies, you give a random, unrelated answer and then when you're asked again about the same thing you refuse to answer, my guess is you really don't want to admit you don't know the answer.

It's not about the meaning of the shot. I praise Lynch for letting every audience member have his own interpretation. It's a technical question, and Reygadas is not a magician, he's a film director. I see no reason to keep stuff like that "a mystery".

Yeah but David Lynch makes movies about inherently ambiguous and open-ended subjects (dreams, consciousness, subjectivity). He's an author of relativism.

Spike Lee is a political kind of filmmaker. Obviously he finds his particular interpretation important and relevant to the overall end of the film.

Both Lynch and Lee, however, have certain intentions that they would like to see realized. (Just as Lee would take issue with Lynch's relativism, Lynch might take issue with Lee's rigid absolutism).

[megladon8]

I think it's more than a little careless, I think, to try to deny a filmmaker their right to insist that their film/scene/shot/character/whatever has a particular meaning.

You have every right to disagree with them, but I don't think you have the right to tell them they're wrong in insisting that this is how they intended it to be interpreted.

That is quite an arrogant stance to take.

[Izzy Black]

I'm inclined to agree with the above. (Doesn't mean I agree. I just want to clarify just in case this sparks controversy so I can save-face and avoid debate.)

[Grouchy]

I think it's more than a little careless, I think, to try to deny a filmmaker their right to insist that their film/scene/shot/character/whatever has a particular meaning.

You have every right to disagree with them, but I don't think you have the right to tell them they're wrong in insisting that this is how they intended it to be interpreted.

That is quite an arrogant stance to take.
The question is more if they have a right to impose that meaning on others.

And yeah, Lynch and Lee are in opposite sides of the director spectrum. I'm not saying anything groundbreaking here, but I think Lee would benefit from some of Lynch's relativism, even if his movies are political in nature and are thus forced to take sides to an extent. And I love Spike Lee movies.

[megladon8]

The question is more if they have a right to impose that meaning on others.


But wouldn't you be equally guilty by imposing on them this rule that they shouldn't tell people what their films mean?

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with whether or not directors should do this, at this point...I'm just saying that it's kind of the pot calling the kettle black.

[Adam]

You have every right to disagree with them, but I don't think you have the right to tell them they're wrong in insisting that this is how they intended it to be interpreted.

That is quite an arrogant stance to take.

But does it matter how they intended it to be interpreted? Isn't it all about how it ultimately turns out, intentions aside? I wouldn't argue with a filmmaker over their intent, but I do think it's kinda sorta arrogant on their part to tell people what to think of their stuff when it's finished and made available to the viewing public. My point is that the art should speak for itself and if it is truly great, then different people should probably get different things out of it

That's not arrogant


But wouldn't you be equally guilty by imposing on them this rule that they shouldn't tell people what their films mean?

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with whether or not directors should do this, at this point...I'm just saying that it's kind of the pot calling the kettle black.

It's not the same thing, because there's a distinct difference between the creator and the critic

And, you know, it's just that I personally think it does a disservice to their work. But of course anybody can say whatever the heck they want about anything

[Grouchy]

But wouldn't you be equally guilty by imposing on them this rule that they shouldn't tell people what their films mean?

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with whether or not directors should do this, at this point...I'm just saying that it's kind of the pot calling the kettle black.
Well, it is if you consider it on a social level, as in your rights end where other people's rights begin.

But on an art level, once the work is out, how much of it belongs to you and how much to the critics and thinkers that will apply it to their own lives and perceptions?

[Izzy Black]

And yeah, Lynch and Lee are in opposite sides of the director spectrum. I'm not saying anything groundbreaking here, but I think Lee would benefit from some of Lynch's relativism, even if his movies are political in nature and are thus forced to take sides to an extent. And I love Spike Lee movies.

Fair enough.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Directors are allowed to say they meant their movies a certain way and that people are taking it wrong.

I'm allowed to disagree and disregard whatever they say.

Tucker Max just released a press statement today saying I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell is not misogynistic, it is in fact "pro-women." He can go fuck himself.

God. That book's so misogynistic it renders the word "misogynistic" imperfect. From now on, people must replace it with "Tuckermaxian."

[Izzy Black]

But does it matter how they intended it to be interpreted? Isn't it all about how it ultimately turns out, intentions aside? I wouldn't argue with a filmmaker over their intent, but I do think it's kinda sorta arrogant on their part to tell people what to think of their stuff when it's finished and made available to the viewing public. My point is that the art should speak for itself and if it is truly great, then different people should probably get different things out of it


I don't know about this. Woody Allen's personal life and thoughts on his work, for example, can be extremely illuminating on understanding the meaning of his work (even if as a point of contrast.) If we consider other people's valuations in our interpretation of an artwork, can we not a filmmaker's as well? (Who ever said the filmmaker is not also basing their opinion on the end result of the work in question?)

[Adam]

No, I mean of course their thoughts on their work can be helpful. I brought up Spike Lee, though, because there's a major difference between floating ideas out there and outright telling your audience whatever they thought was wrong and there's literally only one way to look at something

[BuffaloWilder]

Eh, case in point?

Leone's The Good, The Bad and The Ugly is a big one, I noticed.

[Izzy Black]

OK. (I could quibble, but it would be silly to.)

[Boner M]

I made a valid attempt to watch this last night. Despite having the most awesome sunrise shot I think I've ever seen, I just couldn't get into it. It's one of those films where two people stare off into the clouds for a couple minutes before saying some dialogue gem like "I think the tractor needs a new fan belt." I think I managed to watch about 45 minutes of it.
"Welcome to Pop Trash Reductivism 101! I'll be your teacher today, but I think we'll end the class here on account of it being one of those kind of classes"

[Derek]

"Welcome to Pop Trash Reductivism 101! I'll be your teacher today, but I think we'll end the class here on account of it being one of those kind of classes"

*passes drop slip to boner*

[dreamdead]

Wyler's The Best Years of Our Lives doesn't quite match up to the legacy that Rosenbaum has established it to have. In terms of being a WW2 postwar film immediately following the war, it maintains an idealism that is interesting whenever any semblance of socialism creeps in, as that dessicated and dehuman aspect of Americana is ritualistically countered. Yet the film suffers in trying to establish a model opposite the idealistic vision of capitalism that is soon revealed to fail veterans, as bank owners refuse to spot poor veterans who are trying to begin a life anew. Yet there is something to the film's allowance of letting different social classes mingle, however briefly, through their military comaraderie; it is a move that feels honest and allows Wyler the ability to contrast familial reaction to the war.

If anything, the biggest weakness here is the young man whose arms have been replaced with the metal claws. His narrative is too rote and one dimensional, and it lacks the class conflict that the other, better narrative choices in the film allow for.

[Qrazy]

March of the Penguins was OK. I don't really know what a penguin is feeling though so I'm glad that Morgan Freeman seems to know and can tell me.

[The Mike]

March of the Penguins was OK. I don't really know what a penguin is feeling though so I'm glad that Morgan Freeman seems to know and can tell me.

But unfortunately, the journey is harsh, and many of the flock don't survive.

Rinse. Repeat. For 90 minutes. :frustrated:

[ledfloyd]

the little bit in encounters at the end of the world on penguins was far more moving than anything in march of the penguins.

[Dead & Messed Up]

March of the Penguins was OK. I don't really know what a penguin is feeling though so I'm glad that Morgan Freeman seems to know and can tell me.

http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/morgan-freeman.jpg

I remember the first time I met Tux the penguin. Seemed like a stiff breeze might blow him over. That was my first impression of the bird.

...a walrus ate him.

[BuffaloWilder]

rep

[Ezee E]

Sin Nombre, what a strange ending. However, what a fantastic first hour. Was absolutely loving it for a while.

[Boner M]

Memories of Underdevelopment - Always formally audacious and energetic; thoroughly complex and probing in its exploration of the personal being intertwined with the political. Loved the cheeky humour; esp. the reel of film clips censored by the Cuban government. Just wish I connected with the film a little more on the level of content. Poor DVD transfer probably detracted from experience.

[StanleyK]

I have a question about Mulholland Drive, regarding the audition scene: was Camilla Rhodes' performance supposed to be bad? She seemed just fine to me, but in this film, it's hard to tell.

It would make more sense if her performance was atrocious, considering it was all Diane's delusion.

[Pop Trash]

"Welcome to Pop Trash Reductivism 101! I'll be your teacher today, but I think we'll end the class here on account of it being one of those kind of classes"

It's not a stretch to say many people, indeed with very good taste in film, might not find this movie to be their cup of tea. But, hey, at least I gave it a chance.

[Boner M]

It's not a stretch to say many people, indeed with very good taste in film, might not find this movie to be their cup of tea. But, hey, at least I gave it a chance.I dunno, it has a pretty strong emotional centre, so it's at least a hell of a lot more accessible than Japon, which was equally visually stunning but throw-shoe-at-screen pretentious. I saw it last year with a packed Sydney Film Festival audience, who are usually pretty antsy, and I didn't notice one walkout (by contrast, this year Tsai Ming-Liang's Face drove nearly half of the same capacity crowd to the exits with 1/2 an hour to go).

[number8]

Ummmm. Did anybody realize that Joel Schumacher's latest thriller was released yesterday in a handful of dollar theaters, not unlike Midnight Meat Train?

How the Shoe has fallen.

EDIT: It's called Blood Creek and stars Dominic Purcell and Michael Fassbender.

[Spun Lepton]

Ummmm. Did anybody realize that Joel Schumacher's latest thriller was released yesterday in a handful of dollar theaters, not unlike Midnight Meat Train?

How the Shoe has fallen.

Schumacher has been making another movie ... ?

[chrisnu]

I have a question about Mulholland Drive, regarding the audition scene: was Camilla Rhodes' performance supposed to be bad? She seemed just fine to me, but in this film, it's hard to tell.

It would make more sense if her performance was atrocious, considering it was all Diane's delusion.
I think it was Betty in the audition scene, not Camilla. Is this the scene you were referring to?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyrea5ary-Y

I think that Betty is supposed to knock your socks off... and I thought she did. Even out of context, I think this scene is fantastic. Given Diane's state of mind, I think it's brilliant.

[Qrazy]

I believe he was referring to the musical audition scene but I don't quite follow his train of thought there either.

[number8]

Schumacher has been making another movie ... ?

My point exactly. No press, no ads, no nothing. It's just out.

[ledfloyd]

i reeeeeeeally didn't like 500 days of summer.

[Boner M]

i reeeeeeeally didn't like 500 days of summer.
More thoughts, plz? I enjoyed it, but in hindsight I side more with its detractors.

[ledfloyd]

More thoughts, plz? I enjoyed it, but in hindsight I side more with its detractors.
it seemed like it was trying too hard. trying too hard to be cute, trying too hard to make me like it, and trying too hard to be different. the narrator insists it's not a typical love story when, for all intents and purposes, it is. the pop culture references and indie music reminded me, negatively, of juno and garden state. annie hall does what 500 days is trying to do much better and with more sincerity. it was too precious and fawning.

[Pop Trash]

it seemed like it was trying too hard. trying too hard to be cute, trying too hard to make me like it, and trying too hard to be different. the narrator insists it's not a typical love story when, for all intents and purposes, it is. the pop culture references and indie music reminded me, negatively, of juno and garden state. annie hall does what 500 days is trying to do much better and with more sincerity. it was too precious and fawning.

I dunno. Obviously it rubbed you the wrong way, but I think you are being too glass half empty about it. Sure it has the oft mentioned flaws (voiceover, the sister character, and most especially for me, the ending), but I quite liked many of the movie-movie aspects like the split-screen, the musical number, and the movies JGL watches. I guess one could say "it tries too hard" but sometimes I like a bit of self-conscious style. As for the indie rock, I listen to a lot of that stuff so I can't complain. I mean The Doves, The Smiths, hell even Hall & Oates worked within the context of that scene.

[number8]

I never liked that criticism. "Trying too hard." I don't really know what that means.

[Ezee E]

I never liked that criticism. "Trying too hard." I don't really know what that means.
YES! This should be in the pet peeves of criticism thread.

[BuffaloWilder]

So, I found a wealth of essays from David Peary's much-referenced but long out-of-print Cult Movies series of books from the eighties, and - with the site they previously called home having undergone a facelift - I decided to go ahead and repost them, just for posterity's sake.

First up is, of course, his write-up on Mad Max 2, to be followed by King Kong, and then on to - Body Snatchers, perhaps.

[Qrazy]

Trying too hard is a perfectly fine criticism. It means trying too hard to emulate another set of films or trying but not succeeding to capture a certain energy. Comedy for instance should come easily. If a comedian is trying too hard the jokes seem forced and are therefore not that funny.

[Qrazy]

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/00/79/01/image_5501790.jpg

Wow, The Hustler is the shit. Certainly, nothing in its sequel The Color of Money (one of the few movies where it can be argued that Marty just phoned it in) had prepared me for it. Rossen directs this with a naturalistic flair that allows scenes to develop long enough to create a huge impression of tension and despair in the viewer, and the bleak b&w cinematography is excellent. Newman's performance would probably be his best if it weren't for Hud, where he also schools pretty much every other actor of his generation, and the turns of George C. Scott and Piper Laurie, who provides the heart of the tale (can't believe she went on to portray Carrie's mother), are also miraculous.

But what really creates such a lasting impression about this film is the characters. As I wrote regarding a '70s James Caan movie in my VHS review thread, old Hollywood dramas gave their characters room to be alive. Their reactions weren't always what the script called for - they were their own. A character such as "Fast" Eddie Nelson, with his penchant for neat scotch and self-absorbed focus, wouldn't be possible in a contemporary movie, where the script has to sell us information that's essential to the plot every single minute. Rossen wisely ends his movie in a scene that challenges our investment in the story. It's a traditional happy ending for a sports movie, where our hero beats his rival, but in fact, it's a supremely pessimistic ending from a human point of view. It makes me want to rewatch The Color of Money to see if the script also had this depth regarding Nelson's character.

I'd recommend Hombre since I know you like Westerns and Paul Newman. The film has a bit of a slow start (slow only in so far as it's not as good as what comes after) but it builds to a fantastically tense conclusion. Harper and The Drowning Pool are also quality private eye films with Newman.

[Watashi]

Stop torrenting movies, led.

[Watashi]

So The Class is right up there with High School as the best movies about adolescence. I found it to a be a pretty sad, tragic film.

[B-side]

A nos amours was good. Felt like a mix between Rohmer and Cassavetes. As good as the former, not quite so the latter.

[Ezee E]

So if Precious wins Best Picture, does that mean we'll be seeing Tyler Perry on the podium?

Please, no.

[Boner M]

Fell asleep ten minutes into The Fall of Otrar, woke up and it was in color (as opposed to sepia-tone) and I had no idea what was going on, except that I was watching a naked dude kill a bunch of people around a castle, with badly dubbed dialogue accompanying the action. Not as much fun as it sounds. W/O'd shortly after.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I just ran into Arsinée Khanjian and her kid at the local bookshop about 20 minutes ago. I thought it was pretty exciting. I wanted to tell her how much I liked her in Adoration, but she seemed pretty focused on the Jung she was reading. I did give her an "excuse me" as I slid past her to get to the A's of the Lit section though. I thought this was worth posting.

[Qrazy]

Fell asleep ten minutes into The Fall of Otrar, woke up and it was in color (as opposed to sepia-tone) and I had no idea what was going on, except that I was watching a naked dude kill a bunch of people around a castle, with badly dubbed dialogue accompanying the action. Not as much fun as it sounds. W/O'd shortly after.

This was a theater viewing?

[Spinal]

Watched Raiders of the Lost Ark with my kid. Still a great movie. More violent than I remembered.

However, let me stir up the pot by asking a question to the people who get so worked up over the 'resurrection' in War of the Worlds ...

Do you have a similar beef with the way Marion is 'resurrected' in Raiders of the Lost Ark? I think it's the film's biggest flaw. I watched it carefully to see if any information is given to us to key us into the fact that there might have been a switch in baskets. There isn't. As an audience, we are basically lied to. We are given every reason to believe that Marion is in that truck when it explodes. And then her return is explained away with a single line.

If you object to War of the Worlds, but not this, I label you a hypocrite.

[EyesWideOpen]

I dislike both movies so what does that make me?

[Qrazy]

Well I liked War of the Worlds and I guess I do have a problem with both situations but I think there is indeed a difference in the handling and that it's much more poorly handled in War of the Worlds. For starters it's a reveal right at the end of the film which completely changes the tone (of tragedy) of what came before. Suddenly the film becomes an oh it's a happy ending after all (ditto Minority Report ending)... keeping the son alive adds nothing to the film except to provide that happy ending. Although it's true that the son's entire arc was poorly handled in general. Perhaps he should have been fighting with the marines when they take down the last tripod or been injured in a group somewhere. In the case of Raiders Marion comes back much earlier and plays an important role in the events that follow.

[number8]

There's a big difference between a plot twist and a copout. I'm disappointed in you, Spinal.

[MadMan]

I never saw War of the Worlds. But I disagree with you, Spinal. I think she was in another basket.

[Boner M]

This was a theater viewing?
Yeah. I was actually surprised at how sloppily made it was; from the 20-30 minutes I consciously saw, there was no tonal or even formal consistency. I couldn't tell if it was supposed to be hallucinatory/dreamlike or just the product of inept filmmaking, but I was in no mood to stay and decide.

I'm curious as to how you'll react, though. Maybe it was just my mood at the time.

[Winston*]

I saw RockNRolla. Didn't mind this actually. It's pretty much Guy Ritchie making a Guy Ritchie movie in his sleep, which is a positive because his slumbering state dilutes his Guy Ritchieness.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Watched Samuel Fuller's Park Row tonight. It was a solid film, but I was a little let down. It moved at too fast a pace, hampering the emotion of certain key moments. Perhaps Fuller was attempting to emulate the frenzied nature of the newspaper industry, but it didn't work to the film's advantage. I'd have rather he took his time with certain scenes. Also, that ending couldn't have possibly been cornier. There had to be a better way to wrap things up. Tainted what was a pretty inspiring film. Still, I enjoyed it. Some really great exchanges throughout.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Do you have a similar beef with the way Marion is 'resurrected' in Raiders of the Lost Ark? I think it's the film's biggest flaw. I watched it carefully to see if any information is given to us to key us into the fact that there might have been a switch in baskets. There isn't. As an audience, we are basically lied to. We are given every reason to believe that Marion is in that truck when it explodes. And then her return is explained away with a single line.

If you object to War of the Worlds, but not this, I label you a hypocrite.

We're all hypocrites, Spinal.

I think it's worth noting that the two films are tonally very different. The son's "death" is an extended, dramatic moment, built up with speechifying, meaningful glances, slowed shots. Spielberg lingers on the drama between the two. By comparison, Marion's "death" is a sudden explosion, shocking, but as snappy as the other developments in a mostly "lightweight" film. In retrospect, it's almost sterile.

[Watashi]

Hey Boner/Winston, did you ever see Up yet?

[Qrazy]

Yeah. I was actually surprised at how sloppily made it was; from the 20-30 minutes I consciously saw, there was no tonal or even formal consistency. I couldn't tell if it was supposed to be hallucinatory/dreamlike or just the product of inept filmmaking, but I was in no mood to stay and decide.

I'm curious as to how you'll react, though. Maybe it was just my mood at the time.

Bummer, I've heard so many good things on the interwebs. I'll have to try and give it a look soon and get back to you. Glad to see you liked The White Balloon though, quality film that one.

[Winston*]

Hey Boner/Winston, did you ever see Up yet?

Nope. Might be seeing it tomorrow.

[Ezee E]

Dig the new av Wats.

[B-side]

Mauvais sang tonight. My first Carax.

[MadMan]

Dig the new av Wats.This one is nice, but I liked his other one better. And the one he had from Up was awesome.

[B-side]

Mauvais sang tonight. My first Carax.

So, yeah, I'm gonna take the easy way out and just direct you guys to that link in my sig for my thoughts on this.

Short version: It's a bizarre amalgam of stylistic flourishes that seems to wear its influences on its sleeve. Two beautiful lead women, a decorative mise-en-scene and unique cinematography.

[Boner M]

Hey Boner/Winston, did you ever see Up yet?
Saw it a few months ago; didn't post my thoughts because I'd prefer you not killing yourself.

:D

I'll see it this week or next. Still hopeful, despite the relatively cold reception here.


Bummer, I've heard so many good things on the interwebs. I'll have to try and give it a look soon and get back to you. Glad to see you liked The White Balloon though, quality film that one.
Don't let my reaction dissuade you; I was deadly tired at the time. As for The White Balloon, I was seriously impressed by it, and I might even add another half star in time. More thoughts later.


Short version: It's a bizarre amalgam of stylistic flourishes that seems to wear its influences on its sleeve. Two beautiful lead women, a decorative mise-en-scene and unique cinematography....and it's a masterpiece, right? I love that film. Really captures the spirit of young love better than any other film I can think of. Really surprised Carax isn't more of a hot commodity among young cinephiles; his two Binoche/Lavant films (Lovers on the Bridge being the other) are as good as modern French cinema gets.

[balmakboor]

I'm puzzled. Clean Flicks contains warnings if a movie contain some "jump scenes." WTF does that mean? Something to watch out for if your kids habitually disobey you and jump on their beds?

http://www.cleanflicks.com/parentalAdvice.html

(Why am I on this site at all, you might ask? Well, I was just reading up on the new documentary Cleanflix and kinda found my way to their site. It is encouraging that they no longer edit movies and they do honestly have a lot of great movies in their catalog.)

[Adam]

Well I liked War of the Worlds and I guess I do have a problem with both situations but I think there is indeed a difference in the handling and that it's much more poorly handled in War of the Worlds. For starters it's a reveal right at the end of the film which completely changes the tone (of tragedy) of what came before. Suddenly the film becomes an oh it's a happy ending after all (ditto Minority Report ending)... keeping the son alive adds nothing to the film except to provide that happy ending. Although it's true that the son's entire arc was poorly handled in general. Perhaps he should have been fighting with the marines when they take down the last tripod or been injured in a group somewhere. In the case of Raiders Marion comes back much earlier and plays an important role in the events that follow.

Yeah, I agree with all this but really it can't be said enough how Minority Report's last ten minutes or so are maybe the most disappointing thing Spielberg's ever done. And I mean the real bummer there is that he had the perfect flippin ending when Tim Blake Nelson says "you're part of my flock now, John." In fact, if Spielberg didn't have such a notorious sentimental streak, you could make the case that those last ten minutes are all in Cruise's head - that he's just dreaming an impossible escape in his prison dealie

[balmakboor]

In fact, if Spielberg didn't have such a notorious sentimental streak, you could make the case that those last ten minutes are all in Cruise's head - that he's just dreaming an impossible escape in his prison dealie

Oh, I'm very comfortable in making that case anyway.

[balmakboor]

No, I would think they are more likely referring to scenes that make you jump because they are startling or shocking. Cheap scares and the like.

Really? I thought they just hated the ending to Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid.

(Of course I jest with both of my interpretations. I know as well as anyone that we can't have kids jumping out of their seats. Popcorn is just too expensive.)

[Qrazy]

Oh, I'm very comfortable in making that case anyway.

MINORITY REPORT and BRAZIL SPOILERS

Except there's a) not that much textual evidence for it and b) is such an ending really a good one or in keeping with what the film is about? In the case of Brazil that ending works wonderfully because that film is about a world where the system wins absolutely. As I see it Minority Report isn't about that. It's about a program for handling crime, the flaws of which (given the film's basic metaphysics) must be exposed by the film's end. In my opinion it's important that Burgess loses and the system is dismantled. The problem is that Spielberg always wants to have his cake and eat it too. He doesn't seem to recognize that it reads much better when there's personal loss for greater gain. At the same time the film has to be about that basic ambiguity (also present in A Clockwork Orange) which is that while it's important for a society to maintain freedom, this entails the freedom to murder, to choose and make the 'wrong' choice. The film should also be about the fact that while we can control our own actions, we have little control over the circumstances of our deaths. We do have control, but this control is finite. I'm not sure what the best way would have been for the film to communicate all these ideas narratively. I have some ideas but I'm not entirely happy with any of my own endings either.

[Adam]

Isn't there an internet statute of limitations on spoilers for movies that are 7 and 24 years old?

Anyway, Minority Report spoilers below!

The textual evidence for everything after the "you're part of my flock now" line being a dream is just the fact that it all feels like such a rushed, deus ex machina cop-out. It gets wrapped up way too neatly and it completely clashes with the rest of the movie's tone

If Anderton winds up imprisoned in that nightmare chamber for the rest of his life, it would've proven the film's point just fine and actually it would ultimately feel a lot more satisfying that way. To me, anyway. Von Sydow wins and it's a devastating ending that says everything you want the movie to say. Why does the program have to be exposed in the universe of the film as flawed, when we the audience already can see how broken and corrupt it is?

[Qrazy]

Isn't there an internet statute of limitations on spoilers for movies that are 7 and 24 years old?

Anyway, Minority Report spoilers below!

The textual evidence for everything after the "you're part of my flock now" line being a dream is just the fact that it all feels like such a rushed, deus ex machina cop-out. It gets wrapped up way too neatly and it completely clashes with the rest of the movie's tone

If Anderton winds up imprisoned in that nightmare chamber for the rest of his life, it would've proven the film's point just fine and actually it would ultimately feel a lot more satisfying that way. To me, anyway. Von Sydow wins and it's a devastating ending that says everything you want the movie to say. Why does the program have to be exposed in the universe of the film as flawed, when we the audience already can see how broken and corrupt it is?

That isn't textual evidence, it's just poor plotting (most of Spielberg's contemporary output and poorly plotted happy endings are further evidence of this). Textual evidence would be a significant visual, dialogue or other cue cluing us in that this is all a dream. In Brazil we experience extended dream sequences throughout the course of the film. Here the dream sequence would be an arbitrary addition. The only evidence is one line of dialogue earlier in the film about people in suspended animation experiencing pleasant dreams.

In relation to your latter point, it's because if the film ended there we wouldn't actually see how broken and corrupt the system is (corrupt we'd see but not broken), because all the murders have been successfully predicted through precognition. It is only Burgess suicide at the end that reveals the cycle can truly be broken.

I would have found Anderton's imprisonment an unsuccessful communication of what I feel to be the film's basic metaphysical position (which is that we do have a choice). And even if we were to interpret the end of the film as a dream, what does this add? In the case of Brazil it shows a man who was finally able to escape the world around him by retreating into his own mind (not a happy ending per se but at least his mind remains under his own control... unlike 1984). In the case of Minority Report such a dream sequence doesn't communicate something as thematically resonant because such an escape is not what the film is about.

[Adam]

That isn't textual evidence, it's just poor plotting (most of Spielberg's contemporary output and poorly plotted happy endings are further evidence of this). Textual evidence would be a significant visual, dialogue or other cue cluing us in that this is all a dream. In Brazil we experience extended dream sequences throughout the course of the film. Here the dream sequence would be an arbitrary addition. The only evidence is one line of dialogue earlier in the film about people in suspended animation experiencing pleasant dreams.

In relation to your latter point, it's because if the film ended there we wouldn't actually see how broken and corrupt the system is (corrupt we'd see but not broken), because all the murders have been successfully predicted through precognition. It is only Burgess suicide at the end that reveals the cycle can truly be broken.

I would have found Anderton's imprisonment an unsuccessful communication of what I feel to be the film's basic metaphysical position (which is that we do have a choice). And even if we were to interpret the end of the film as a dream, what does this add? In the case of Brazil it shows a man who was finally able to escape the world around him by retreating into his own mind (not a happy ending per se but at least his mind remains under his own control... unlike 1984). In the case of Minority Report such a dream sequence doesn't communicate something as thematically resonant because such an escape is not what the film is about.

I agree with you that it's not meant to be a dream. And, you're right, even if it were, it wouldn't add to the film in the way Sam Lowry's mind escaping does for Brazil. I'm only playing devils advocate there because I wish the movie ended once Anderton was imprisoned. In the same way you feel that the whole dream idea is superfluous to the story - that's how I feel about everything that happens after the "you're part of my flock" line. And not only do I think that those last couple of scenes add nothing, for me they actually make the whole thing a lot more obvious/Spielbergian AND they take away from what could have been a very memorable, creepy ending

[Dead & Messed Up]

That isn't textual evidence, it's just poor plotting (most of Spielberg's contemporary output and poorly plotted happy endings are further evidence of this). Textual evidence would be a significant visual, dialogue or other cue cluing us in that this is all a dream. In Brazil we experience extended dream sequences throughout the course of the film. Here the dream sequence would be an arbitrary addition. The only evidence is one line of dialogue earlier in the film about people in suspended animation experiencing pleasant dreams.

In relation to your latter point, it's because if the film ended there we wouldn't actually see how broken and corrupt the system is (corrupt we'd see but not broken), because all the murders have been successfully predicted through precognition. It is only Burgess suicide at the end that reveals the cycle can truly be broken.

I would have found Anderton's imprisonment an unsuccessful communication of what I feel to be the film's basic metaphysical position (which is that we do have a choice). And even if we were to interpret the end of the film as a dream, what does this add? In the case of Brazil it shows a man who was finally able to escape the world around him by retreating into his own mind (not a happy ending per se but at least his mind remains under his own control... unlike 1984). In the case of Minority Report such a dream sequence doesn't communicate something as thematically resonant because such an escape is not what the film is about.

This may just be me, but I don't see how the ending of Minority Report doesn't tie in thematically and logically with the rest of the film.

Thematically, as you point out, it makes perfect sense, since the purpose of the film is to reconcile between fate and free will (and it elects free will). So the final confrontation between Anderton and Burgess has real weight and resonance, because we see the Precogs predicting everything that's going to happen between the two.

Logically, the film is an intentional nod to noir, not neo-noir, and there's a big difference between the two. Chinatown started neo-noir, and its despairing ending, in which problems are not resolved, differs greatly from the noir of the 1940's. In those films, order is always restored. Sometimes at great cost, yes, but they're resolved, and good triumphs, and that's the model Minority Report emulates.

Now, I'm certainly willing to concede that when Lara says, "I never said she drowned" to Lamar, it felt like the solution you read at the end of an Encyclopedia Brown book. What was Lamar's Fatal Flaw? Frustrating in its simplicity.

Overall, I quite like the ending, but I love if that rumored subtitle at the end would've stayed. It was something like this: "As of last year, there were one thousand murders in DC alone." Let's face it: that's exactly what would happen when Pre-Crime dismantles.

[Qrazy]

I agree with you that it's not meant to be a dream. And, you're right, even if it were, it wouldn't add to the film in the way Sam Lowry's mind escaping does for Brazil. I'm only playing devils advocate there because I wish the movie ended once Anderton was imprisoned. In the same way you feel that the whole dream idea is superfluous to the story - that's how I feel about everything that happens after the "you're part of my flock" line. And not only do I think that those last couple of scenes add nothing, for me they actually make the whole thing a lot more obvious/Spielbergian AND they take away from what could have been a very memorable, creepy ending

I agree that ending would be better than the one we have, but I don't think either fully works. Here's one ending I'm toying around with that I don't think fully works either but I somewhat prefer.

Lara dies in the escape attempt (but accidentally, not as a result of murder) which further fuels Anderton's no-win situation with Burgess. In this situation Anderton really doesn't care whether he lives or dies because both his son and Lara have been lost. The system is dismantled and the precogs are freed but the narrator announces that crime rates went up (we witness crime in the city instead of pregnant Lara) and Anderton continues his drug addiction and becomes a vagrant, perhaps ambiguously OD'ing at the end of the film (i.e. we just witness him going to sleep).

[Qrazy]

This may just be me, but I don't see how the ending of Minority Report doesn't tie in thematically and logically with the rest of the film.

Thematically, as you point out, it makes perfect sense, since the purpose of the film is to reconcile between fate and free will (and it elects free will). So the final confrontation between Anderton and Burgess has real weight and resonance, because we see the Precogs predicting everything that's going to happen between the two.

Logically, the film is an intentional nod to noir, not neo-noir, and there's a big difference between the two. Chinatown started neo-noir, and its despairing ending, in which problems are not resolved, differs greatly from the noir of the 1940's. In those films, order is always restored. Sometimes at great cost, yes, but they're resolved, and good triumphs, and that's the model Minority Report emulates.

Now, I'm certainly willing to concede that when Lara says, "I never said she drowned" to Lamar, it felt like the solution you read at the end of an Encyclopedia Brown book. What was Lamar's Fatal Flaw? Frustrating in its simplicity.

Overall, I quite like the ending, but I love if that rumored subtitle at the end would've stayed. It was something like this: "As of last year, there were one thousand murders in DC alone." Let's face it: that's exactly what would happen when Pre-Crime dismantles.

Yes, exactly. I agree that the Anderton/Burgess face off or at least something equivalent is necessary. It's more the very end where all the precogs are living happily, Anderton is starting a new family and the lack of that final subtitle that rings false.

[Raiders]

To me the ending of Spielberg's film is about the futility and ultimate failure of humans to play God.

The whole film is about the cultural deification of the pre-cogs and the illusion that the system is "perfect" when it is actually precipitated on a lie and a deceit. Lamar proved that there is a way around the system, forever tarnishing the ideal it represents. Even more however is the film's ultimate humane reprieve for the real victims of pre-crime which are the pre-cogs themselves. The final two images, that of the abandoned, empty shell of Pre Crime headquarters and of the pre-cogs freed from their bonds and agonizing non-existence is a near-perfect encapsulation of what the film ultimately represents. I think people get too stuck on Anderton's story when those final minutes of the film show him as a messenger for the ultimate truth that man has no business trying to play God and stresses the ultimate difference between a Biblical God and man; where God gives us free will, Pre Crime does not. Not only where we are arresting people for something not actually committed but in the pre-cogs who are imprisoned by man and then held as some kind of beacon of perfection but who are just genetic experiments gone wrong.

[Qrazy]

To me the ending of Spielberg's film is about the futility and ultimate failure of humans to play God.

The whole film is about the cultural deification of the pre-cogs and the illusion that the system is "perfect" when it is actually precipitated on a lie and a deceit. Lamar proved that there is a way around the system, forever tarnishing the ideal it represents. Even more however is the film's ultimate humane reprieve for the real victims of pre-crime which are the pre-cogs themselves. The final two images, that of the abandoned, empty shell of Pre Crime headquarters and of the pre-cogs freed from their bonds and agonizing non-existence is a near-perfect encapsulation of what the film ultimately represents. I think people get too stuck on Anderton's story when those final minutes of the film show him as a messenger for the ultimate truth that man has no business trying to play God and stresses the ultimate difference between a Biblical God and man; where God gives us free will, Pre Crime does not. Not only where we are arresting people for something not actually committed but in the pre-cogs who are imprisoned by man and then held as some kind of beacon of perfection but who are just genetic experiments gone wrong.

I very much agree that the system must fold and that the precogs should be freed but I don't feel that they should necessarily live happily ever after.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I think Qrazy and I are saying that the ending can and should be happy, it just didn't need to be HAPPY!

[Qrazy]

I think Qrazy and I are saying that the ending can and should be happy, it just didn't need to be HAPPY!

Agatha should have been killed by a strung out, drugged up Anderton!

[megladon8]

Minority Report is one of the best sci-fi films ever made.