Oh man, the next episode is titled, Haunted Houses. This show might be the closest thing to giving me nightmares.
Oh man, the next episode is titled, Haunted Houses. This show might be the closest thing to giving me nightmares.
I'm starting to lean this way. I'm wondering if Cohle's last ten years have been working the case from the outside. His scenes in interrogation rooms in this show are reminding me of the performances that the detectives would go through in Homicide: Life on the Street.Quoting ThePlashyBubbler (view post)
Out of 4 stars:
The Guest: ***1/2
Furious 7: ***
The Tale of Princess Kaguya: ***
It Follows: ***1/2
Thanks.
I binged on this over the weekend. Excellent show.
Didn't like this episode as much as the last two, but the comedown was expected. I am starting to agree with articles like this one regarding the females on this show, though.
I agree more with Molly Lambert over @ Grantland. Her take on the women of the show reflects mine: that episode 6 had a real showcasing turn for Michelle Monaghan and that Monaghan nailed it, stealing the spotlight from Rust and Marty for an episode. I loved this episode by the way. It brought the show back down to earth from all the nutty hypothesizing about the Yellow King and flat circles and so on. This show has some of those trappings, but this show is more than a philosophical whodunnit - it's about complex, well-acted, and well-drawn characters and their relation to one another.
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/t..._s_a_good.html
Another perspective on TD + women.
I was actually going to add that article into my edit, because you're right, she does make some good points. That being said, I don't see how Monaghan's character has been a complex character, at all. To me, it doesn't feel like much thought is given to Maggie other than being the doormat wife who then lashes out at her husband in a very soap opera-ish manner. I agree that Monaghan hits it out of the park with her scenes in this past episode, but her character hasn't been given any real depth and the show seems more interested in what she can provide for the Rust and Chole's relationship. Doesn't feel like there's a lot of complexity there, even though Monaghan is doing what she can.
At least people aren't proclaiming she's the worst, like they did with Skylar. That's something I guess.
Crime fiction has always been about male-centric worlds with peripheral female characters. There are a few exceptions but very few. This type of neo-noir is also primarily concerned with one or two primary antagonists and not in an Altman-esque examination of the life and times of everyone that populates the world. While it's true that the women are flat so are most of the peripheral male characters. It's a plot driven narrative. So yes, I agree that True Detective doesn't feature women in strong female roles but it's not unexpected that this would be the case. In terms of physical objectification (shots of strippers T&A, sex scenes, etc) this is a larger problem with a great deal of 'adult' media in general (TV/film). Sexual content is thrown in to titillate the viewer on a regular basis. Say what you will about the Hayes code in relation to free speech (it was ultimately a bad thing) but at least it kept things a little classier in the boudoir.
I also have no doubt though that the show will draw out the connection between the fact that our two leads succumbed to their sexual desires and the impulses of the killer(s). That would also be in typical noir fashion.
The Princess and the Pilot - B-
Playtime (rewatch) - A
The Hobbit - C-
The Comedy - D+
Kings of the Road - C+
The Odd Couple - B
Red Rock West - C-
The Hunger Games - D-
Prometheus - C
Tangled - C+
Wow - this show references The King in Yellow? OK. It now has my interest.
Not only is The King in Yellow the best weird fiction ever written, it also contains my all-time favorite short story, "The Repairer of Reputations." A creepier, more doom-ridden story does not exist. I'm not quite sure how Chambers accomplished what he did with mere words, because after reading the story for the first time I swore there was actually something supernatural about it. I've never felt more hypnotized by printed words - there has to be some kind of weird metaphysical thing going on with the way Chambers structured his prose, because it reaches deep down into the reader's psyche, and utterly chills the soul.
That io9 article basically reads like a list of my favorite things.
Also, The King in Yellow is in public domain, and can be read for free, and "The Repairer of Reputations" kicks off the version they have on Google.
http://books.google.com/books?id=qHgKEqjdy-wC&oe=UTF-8
Genre is not an excuse. "This is how it's always been done, so we shouldn't expect it to be done any other way." Westerns have also traditionally been about male-centric worlds with peripheral female characters but that didn't stop David Milch from avoiding male-gazey bullshit and crafting a rich tapestry of women (however still beholden to men they are by necessity of the setting) in Deadwood. Same could be said of police procedurals, David Simon, and The Wire. You can have female characters be peripheral without being flat and unbelievable. Of course, in order to do that you have to know how to write human beings and not just fantasist extensions of oneself, which I gather from all this that Nic Pizzolatto doesn't really know how to do. I haven't seen the show though, so I'm just guessing.
The severed arm perfectly acquitted itself, because of the simplicity of its wishes and its total lack of doubt.
My take (for what it's worth) is that the show is both acknowledging and subverting the trope of the peripheral women. In many ways, the story that it is telling is a story of masculinity-- a story told by men, to men. The show doesn't dwell on the female characters because the men telling the story don't particularly care about the female character's outside lives. When the show subverts that, it's not for the male characters (who never seem to get it) but for the outside audience.
Take Marty-- who considers it his masculine duty and right to get violent when "his" women are compromised. His violent outbursts are when someone sexually violates something that he considers "his." He beats up his girlfriend's date. He beats up his daughter's sex partners. He beats up his wife's lover. He's the Big Man. There's the acknowledgment of the trope.
The subversion of it is more subtle, and it's more for the audience than it is for the characters, who are completely oblivious. In this example: the women in Marty's life loathe him. They're not grateful for his protection. They don't appreciate his defense of them-- it just makes them angrier. His life is filled with women who can't wait to get the hell away from him. Part of Marty's eternal confusion is that he thinks he is doing, over and over again, what good men do. He can't understand why everyone doesn't appreciate that.
Now, it's a fair argument to say that these kind of subversions could be a bigger part of the story. I thought maybe, with this episode, it might change a little because we finally had a woman come in to tell her story. It didn't-- because Maggie is not her husband. Marty loved having men willing to sit and let him talk on and on about his glory days. He was gregarious and acted like a man of wisdom and experience, sharing his insight with younger, less powerful colleagues. He only got angry and left when his own ego was threatened. His wife, though, doesn't put up with that bullshit for one second. She comes in, and instead of telling it how it was, she says, tiredly, "In a former life I used to exhaust myself navigating crude men who thought they were clever. So ask your questions or I'm leaving."
It's rare for the show to come right out and call the men on their crap, but when they do it's pretty good. In the second episode, when Mr. Big Man Savior gives the teenage prostitute Beth some money to have a better life (or, as Rust prophetically calls is, a "down payment") the madam of the area shuts him down hard.
"Such holy bullshit from you. It's a woman's body, ain't it? A woman's choice... Girls walk this earth on the time screwing for free. Why is it you add business to the mix and boys like you can't stand the thought? I'll tell you. It's cause suddenly you don't own it the way you thought you did."
...and the milk's in me.
Hah. Mara, you highlighted exactly the two lines I was going to cite.
Movie Theater Diary
I don't think I made myself clear. I'm not defending the tradition. I'm saying that it is a problem but it's a problem with crime fiction in general and it seems pointless to me to single out True Detective in this case. The article ought instead to be written about genre and this problem generally.
The Wire avoids the issue up to a point because it's more naturalistic but it still features plenty of gratuitous sex. Sopranos also featured shots of strippers T&A. Deadwood did too. That's why I sought to explain difference between characterization and sexual objectification in my previous post.
Also I don't know why I'm having this conversation given that you haven't even seen the show. The primary female character in True Detective has desires and uses the tools at her disposal to get what she wants as much as any Deadwood character. I hate Deadwood anyway for completely different reasons.
---
My point about the nature of the noir, detective story genre is that as an example replace a female character with any peripheral male role and see if it actually helps empower women at all. I find it typically doesn't because those who aren't protagonists are themselves there to serve the narrative. If a story is fixated upon plot they are typically less focused on character the way say an art drama would be. Let's say we replace the drug dealer Marty beats up for information with a woman or any of the antagonists or etc... You could replace the police captain with a woman or one of the two protagonists but that's about it. The thing about this genre is almost everyone is morally compromised and it's typically a cynical take on how shitty the world is precisely because it's driven by ugly male desires. Women then either become victims or femme fatales.
Top of the Lake did what I suggested as an alternative and made the protagonist a female detective. Women are still portrayed as victims though (even the protagonist) although in that case they are searching for a means by which to escape their victimhood and the ugliness of men.
The Princess and the Pilot - B-
Playtime (rewatch) - A
The Hobbit - C-
The Comedy - D+
Kings of the Road - C+
The Odd Couple - B
Red Rock West - C-
The Hunger Games - D-
Prometheus - C
Tangled - C+
The madam's retort to him was so fucking good. I was literally cheering when watching it.
The domestic drama in this is so well done, though. McConaughey may get all the cool cop scenes that people go crazy for, but Harrelson is getting the juicier character stuff to me. In fact, I think my favorite scene in the episode is Maggie discovering that he's cheating again and then serving Marty spaghetti. Harrelson's complete obliviousness to how much his daughters and his wife don't like him is equally believable and overwhelming in that. My roomies and I all laughed out loud at the "I love you." "Thank you." exchange. What a fucking idiot. And he probably thinks all he did wrong was sleep with another woman. Nevermind that he treats his family like shit.
Movie Theater Diary
Fukunaga will not direct Season 2.
I'm okay with this! Get another interesting indie director to bring their visual style, make it different.
Movie Theater Diary
Rust's was even better, actually, because it turned out to be a prophecy.
"That a down payment?"
Movie Theater Diary
I really liked that scene because it did feel like a corrupt king enjoying his undeserved spoils.
Interesting conversation, you guys have swayed me a bit back to my original position of not buying into the show being purposefully misogynistic. That being said, I think the scene that stuck out to me in the last episode was the scene where Marty's talking to the ex-prostitute on the phone and of course she's in her lingerie and the camera is luridly giving the audience it's fill of HBO T&A. That kind of thing sticks out to me as unnecessary and not really a moment where the show is trying to say anything.
Eh. I think it's fair to linger on a sexy ass when there is a conversation about anal sex.
Movie Theater Diary
Fair enough. :lol:
The show isn't necessarily trying to "say" something there, but it is an effective trick of using her relative nudity to appropriately position the conversation that Marty is having with her and reinforce his objective world view and predatory nature. I think it works much better as a lurid moment than not.
Recently Viewed:
Thor: The Dark World (2013) **½
The Counselor (2013) *½
Walden (1969) ***
A Hijacking (2012) ***½
Before Midnight (2013) ***
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There was really no need for the anal sex scene at all with or without the ass shot. We already know he's a weak willed character, having a two-dimensional former prostitute talk him into having sex with her again is unnecessary. Cut that scene out entirely and I don't think you lose much. It would probably have been in the show's favor anyway to have him pursue this new girl rather than having her pursue him. As it stands he's just falling off the wagon and he's less responsible, just weak willed. That said, we'll see. It's possible she was sent to him to distract him from the case and to keep Rust isolated. Perhaps they will do more with this new girl's character arc.
The Princess and the Pilot - B-
Playtime (rewatch) - A
The Hobbit - C-
The Comedy - D+
Kings of the Road - C+
The Odd Couple - B
Red Rock West - C-
The Hunger Games - D-
Prometheus - C
Tangled - C+
That was my least favorite episode of the show.
It's pretty funny to read r/truedetective where all these dudes are claiming the show doesn't objectify women ("it's like, about the way men objectify women, dumbass feminists, lol") while the page is simultaneously full of gifs of all the hot naked women on the show for the same dudes to jerk off to.
The severed arm perfectly acquitted itself, because of the simplicity of its wishes and its total lack of doubt.
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