Random Thoughts

[Sycophant]

The word itself is completely arbitrary.

Only as arbitrary as "house" meaning a modestly sized building where people live.

[Sycophant]

Also, differences in power, access, and privilege keep the word powerful.

[soitgoes...]

Yes, because there's so much cultural pressure to do so. But if I lived in a country where it was not the norm, I would stop shaving in a heartbeat.

Oregon.

[Spinal]

Oregon.

Indeed. You wouldn't get a second glance.

[Barty]

Girl awarded valedictorian. Decided to use her graduation speech to rip the school and the American education system apart.

http://americaviaerica.blogspot.com/

So awesome. And true.

[number8]

But overreaction, by its definition, doesn't mean the offending material isn't rightfully offensive. It just means the individual chose to react in a disproportionate manner. Beating the crap out of someone for anything is most often an overreaction in our daily lives.

"Nigger" is an offensive word because it has a painful historical connotation. I'm not suggesting we completely excise the word and censor it at all cost, but if you say that word, you are making the conscious recognition that it is an offensive word. The alternative is non-existent. There's just no other way to see it. Even if you think the word can be used in a very funny way, like I actually do with my sense of humor, it is precisely because it's an offensive word to begin with and there's an element of rebellion to it. Now, when black people use it as a term of endearment, it is also precisely endearing because they take into account what the actual meaning of it is and they're actively working against that. It's not something arbitrary, and it's really not interchangable at all.

[megladon8]

But overreaction, by its definition, doesn't mean the offending material isn't rightfully offensive. It just means the individual chose to react in a disproportionate manner. Beating the crap out of someone for anything is most often an overreaction.

"Nigger" is an offensive word because it has a painful historical connotation. I'm not suggesting we completely excise the word and censor it at all cost, but if you say that word, you are making the conscious recognition that it is an offensive word. The alternative is non-existent. There's just no other way to see it. Even if you think the word can be used in a very funny way, like I actually do with my sense of humor, it is precisely because it's an offensive word to begin with and there's an element of rebellion to it. Now, when black people use it as a term of endearment, it is also precisely endearing because they take into account what the actual meaning of it is and they're actively working against that. It's not something arbitrary, and it's really not interchangable at all.

I am not arguing that the word is not offensive. It is, I agree.

What I am saying is that its use being met by violence (by some, not all of course) is absolutely ridiculous and completely retroactive.

[Sycophant]

And what 8 is saying is that basically anything being met by violence is absolutely ridiculous.

[megladon8]

And what 8 is saying is that basically anything being met by violence is absolutely ridiculous.

Which I agree with as well.

But we were talking about the word and its use and so I was talking about that specifically.

[number8]

And what 8 is saying is that basically anything being met by violence is absolutely ridiculous.

More or less, yeah. You might as well be complaining that it's so ridiculous that people are throwing down because they can't agree which Pokemon is the best. Of course it's ridiculous. No one would say otherwise.

In fact, meg, since you already agreed that the word itself is categorically offensive, then doesn't it make more sense (as wrong as it is) to react with violence to someone saying "nigger" than, according to your examples earlier, a TV show you don't like? Both have no justification, but one has a legitimate social reason while the other is just plain loony.

[Spinal]

So, leaving violence out of it, if a black person is offended when a white person says 'nigger', it is because that word has been historically used to say you are a lesser person than me. Less than human.

Reversing it and using the word 'honky' or whatever just isn't the same. I can still be offended and object to the person seeing me only for my race, but there isn't the same kind of weight that goes along with it. I wouldn't even know what they were saying about me. That I like to barbeque and make mortgage payments?

[megladon8]

More or less, yeah. You might as well be complaining that it's so ridiculous that people are throwing down because they can't agree which Pokemon is the best. Of course it's ridiculous. No one would say otherwise.

In fact, meg, since you already agreed that the word itself is categorically offensive, then doesn't it make more sense (as wrong as it is) to react with violence to someone saying "nigger" than, according to your examples earlier, a TV show you don't like? Both have no justification, but one has a legitimate social reason while the other is just plain loony.

Well the example I was thinking of specifically was the animosity that a show like "South Park" receives from groups all the time.

Like those guys who said they were going to hunt down and kill Parker and Stone because of their use of the prophet Muhammad. Though of course with Parker and Stone this is exactly what they're trying to do - stir shit up. But I think their thought is the same as mine - it's just a word, on a show. If you don't like it, nobody's forcing you to watch it.

Yes, I agree any word, phrase or expression inciting physical violence is ridiculous. The response to the n-word is just something I see as quite prevalent particularly in urban society.

Again, I think the only way we can take away this word's power is to stop responding to it in such a way.

[number8]

So, leaving violence out of it, if a black person is offended when a white person says 'nigger', it is because that word has been historically used to say you are a lesser person than me. Less than human.

Reversing it and using the word 'honky' or whatever just isn't the same. I can still be offended and object to the person seeing me only for my race, but there isn't the same kind of weight that goes along with it. I wouldn't even know what they were saying about me. That I like to barbeque and make mortgage payments?

Looks like I have to repost this.

[youtube]TG4f9zR5yzY[/youtube]

[megladon8]

I agree "honkey" or "cracker" doesn't have the same offensive history as the word "nigger", but it is a conscious choice by the offended parties to continue giving the word this incredible power over them.

[Spinal]

Looks like I have to repost this.

Haven't had a chance to watch it yet. Will do so later.

[number8]

In that case...

[youtube]zuLrBLxbLxw[/youtube]

[Derek]

I agree "honkey" or "cracker" doesn't have the same offensive history as the word "nigger", but it is a conscious choice by the offended parties to continue giving the word this incredible power over them.

The same offensive history? Does it have any offensive history? I don't know a single white person who has ever been offended by either of those words. Arbitrary words can still be incredibly hurtful even when there's very little history behind it. If I said "stop being a cunt, meg," you would most likely be offended to which, using your reasoning, I could respond that you should not allow the c-word to have such power over you, that it's simply referring to a part of the female anatomy that most men enjoy and, therefore, my statement should be inoffensive. Of course, we all know I'd be an asshole if I called you a cunt.

[megladon8]

The same offensive history? Does it have any offensive history? I don't know a single white person who has ever been offended by either of those words. Arbitrary words can still be incredibly hurtful even when there's very little history behind it. If I said "stop being a cunt, meg," you would most likely be offended to which, using your reasoning, I could respond that you should not allow the c-word to have such power over you, that it's simply referring to a part of the female anatomy that most men enjoy and, therefore, my statement should be inoffensive. Of course, we all know I'd be an asshole if I called you a cunt.

Yes but I'm talking strictly about the physical confrontations that these words provoke.

Thinking someone is an asshole and beating the shit out of him or even worse killing him are two different things.

And I think it's been established here that beating someone up or killing them for any reason is ridiculous.

But the fact is that white people can still be killed for saying the word "nigger". And that's ridiculous and retroactive to the cause of black activism.

[Russ]

Yep, yep, yep, today's version of this forum has been one of those scarjo-popcorn-gif kinda days.

[number8]

I know "cracker" refers to a white person who cracks a whip, ostensibly a term signifying dominance; so really, it could even be a compliment.

Anyone know where "honky" came from?

[megladon8]

I know "cracker" refers to a white person who cracks a whip, ostensibly a term signifying dominance; so really, it could even be a compliment.

Anyone know where "honky" came from?

"Origin
Honky, when used as a pejorative meaning white, was first used in 1967 by black militants within SNCC seeking a rebuttal for the term ******. They settled on a familiar word they felt was disparaging to certain Americans of European descent; hunkie meaning an American of Slavic or Hungarian descent.[1][2]


The word "honky" as a pejorative for caucasians comes from "bohunk" and "hunky". In the early 1900's, these were derogatory terms for Bohemian, Hungarian, and Polish immigrants. According to Robert Hendrickson, author of the Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins, African-American workers in Chicago meat-packing plants picked up the term from white workers and began applying it indiscriminately to all Caucasians."

[number8]

No, I really don't think white people are in some kind of constant danger of being murdered for going around saying "nigger." Not without deliberate provocation, at least, a la John McClane in Die Hard with a Vengeance, the third film in the Die Hard trilogy which teamed the esteemed but unlucky cop with Samuel L. Jackson's taxi driver.

[Derek]

But the fact is that white people can still be killed for saying the word "nigger". And that's ridiculous and retroactive to the cause of black activism.

But you seem to suggest that these are normally peaceful people who will flip out and murder someone just for saying nigger. I imagine the people you're talking about are looking for any excuse for violence and would probably be willing to kill people for equally ridiculous things (ie, calling him "bitch", making fun of his mother, etc).

[megladon8]

Unless someone I know is abusing or misusing it, I just leave the word nigger alone. Way too much history and context for me to even begin to parse things out.

...which is exactly what everyone should do.

None of this "I can say it, but he can't. She can but only at this time, and he can but only when there's a full moon on the 12th of the month. And I can say it here to this guy, but not to this person, and not when this person is around."

It's a bad word. It should be a bad word for everyone.

[megladon8]

But you seem to suggest that these are normally peaceful people who will flip out and murder someone just for saying nigger. I imagine the people you're talking about are looking for any excuse for violence and would probably be willing to kill people for equally ridiculous things (ie, calling him "bitch", making fun of his mother, etc).

This is true. The people who would kill over this word would probably kill over something equally ridiculous.

Which I guess comes down to the (unfortunate) fact that there are still some black people out there with an inordinate amount of rage towards whites. Just like there are still Jews with incredible (and misdirected) anger towards Germans, Irish with anger towards Brits, and so on.

It's just that the situation with blacks directing unwarranted hatred towards whites in general is something I have, myself, seen. And it leaves me befuddled.