Random Thoughts

[D_Davis]

The worst people are those who think that child pornography is just for pedophiles. I mean, come on!

[EyesWideOpen]

I don't consider myself a "devoted fan" of anything.

[Glass Co.]

I like air, water and earth myself. Fire when I'm angry.

[Ezee E]

Only thing wrong with fanboy ism is when it's in favor of something I don't like.

[Watashi]

I don't consider myself a "devoted fan" of anything.

Not even your wife?

[number8]

If you have a Batman tattoo and your wedding ring is Batman, I think it's okay to say you're devoted to Batman.

[EyesWideOpen]

If you have a Batman tattoo and your wedding ring is Batman, I think it's okay to say you're devoted to Batman.

Funny you should bring that up. I just sold all my Batman collectibles (posters, prints, action figures, etc) to a guy on craigslist yesterday. I've been over Batman for at least a year now. I'm slowly working on getting rid of all my superhero single issues. The tattoo is obviously never going away. It's just a small Bat symbol on my leg anyway so I never even see it and I haven't worn my wedding ring since probably the first month I was married. I'm just not a ring wearing person. I find them uncomfortable.

So my Batman room in my house has been converted to a movie room so I guess I'm devoted to movies.

[EyesWideOpen]

Not even your wife?

Devoted? Sure.

Fan? Ehhhh.

[Dukefrukem]

OMG pics of your Batman tattoo now.

[Dukefrukem]

Top 25 Most Devoted Fanbases.... how many do you belong to?

Meh. I suppose I am a Joss Whedon fan having loved Firefly and his most recent 2012 successes. Other than that... I enjoyed Arrested Development and the Star Wars universe.

[Irish]

This. This right here.

I don't obsess about much anymore, but I get incensed when I hear that shit. It's American culture, tho. Animated = kids stuff.

I keep hoping Brad Bird and company will help us - as a movie watching nation - get over that hurdle, but to be honest, after a small peak, it seems everyone is starting to backslide.

Brude, why even include "grown men" in that comment? Unless you were purposely trying to get a rise out of Watashi (or me), its reeks of ignorance.

(And yes, I may be projecting after that incident / intervention my "friends" staged a couple of years ago, thinking I was a pedophile because I loved animated films. Don't judge)

Fezz, there isn't anything inherently juvenile about the medium. I think you're right in describing the lack of more sophisticated, adult-focused animation in the US. I always thought that was a shame.

So my answer depends on what you mean when you say "kid's stuff."

US culture has always been oddly youth focused, but today that seems to extend toward keeping everyone in a perpetual state of adolescence. It's that trend I find distasteful and unsettling -- people in their thirties talking about Pokemon and Harry Potter and Hunger Games and How to Train Your Dragon as if they were serious and meaningful and at all relevant to adult life. These are things produced for children. They may or may not be well made, and skillfully done, but they're still for children.

I got to a point recently where I just can't engage with any of that stuff, even the things I used to enjoy and I still think are well made. I've tried; not five minutes go by and I'm left feeling foolish and thinking, "What the hell am I doing? I'm a grown man watching a cartoon in my free time."

[number8]

I know man, we should be like drinking beer and watching football or something mature like that.

[EyesWideOpen]

OMG pics of your Batman tattoo now.

[D_Davis]

I know man, we should be like drinking beer and watching football or something mature like that.

Not at all. There are genre things made by adults for adults. You can like fantasy as an adult. Adults could read J.M. McDermott, or Michael Cisco, or Gene Wolfe for example. There is Science Fiction made for adults, by adults. There are post-apocalyptic human dramas made for adults, by adults. Older adults can't enjoy genre related stuff without reading YA and kids stuff. An adult can like animation without having to like the stuff made for kids. I do find it odd that there are adults who read Twilight, watch My Little Pony, or listen to Justin Bieber. I would encourage them to read, watch and listen to things that, while still fun and exciting, are more challenging and more adult-orientated simply because I want more and better things to be more successful.

[D_Davis]

During the whole Twilight craze I wanted to keep copies of the Joe Pitt books with me to give to the adult men I'd see reading Twilight on the bus. Now, I'm not saying that the Joe Pitt books are GREAT LITERATURE or anything. However, they are more appropriate for an adult male who wants to read some vampire fiction to read. Also, Huston just happens to be a very good noir/hardboiled writer with great prose. So, if those books would have been as popular as Twilight, then we would probably have more better vampire stuff now than we do. I want the best stuff to be the most successful so we get more of the best stuff.

I guess I'm just into age-appropriate forms of media consumption. Sure, sometimes its good to be nostalgic and do kid things, but I believe that there comes a time when it's healthy for an adult to put away childish things.

[Sycophant]

I haven't considered myself a part of a fandom since 2001 when I let my Darkwing Duck website die. I ran a Darkwing blog for a bit about 2 years ago, but I ran out of steam because the new comic book's writing wasn't great and the fan community was wearing me down.

I think fandoms can be good and healthy for people. Mine was for a while. And other people from around my time in that community have taken the talents they developed there and became successful artists and authors. But for myself, I stopped working on bigger, more original creative projects and other pursuits to write bad fanfiction and draw bad fanart and probably became more damaged and upset by fandom drama than I actually benefited anything from it.

I guess that's what I think of when I think of "fandom." Most fan art of things I like leave me cold. But I'm basically content to let people have their fun wherever they find it. That can be in Batman, The Wire, Twilight, or Justin Bieber. I may not have a lot in common with you if your world revolves around Twilight or Justin Bieber, and I will definitely get into arguments about the artistic merit and moral content of Twilight, but I guess your shit's your shit?

Though right now, I'm dangerously close to becoming a slavishly devoted U.C. Gundam fan.

Sieg Zeon.

[Sven]

I haven't considered myself a part of a fandom since 2001 when I let my Darkwing Duck website die.

Devotees of Chow?

[Sycophant]

Devotees of Chow?

Fair point. But I never felt like that was a fandom in the Internet sense so much as a bunch of good friends who loved the same thing?

I'm a giant Stephen Chow fan, of course, though, so.

[Sven]

Fair point. But I never felt like that was a fandom in the Internet sense so much as a bunch of good friends who loved the same thing?

Good distinction.

[number8]

Not at all. There are genre things made by adults for adults. You can like fantasy as an adult. Adults could read J.M. McDermott, or Michael Cisco, or Gene Wolfe for example. There is Science Fiction made for adults, by adults. There are post-apocalyptic human dramas made for adults, by adults. Older adults can't enjoy genre related stuff without reading YA and kids stuff. An adult can like animation without having to like the stuff made for kids. I do find it odd that there are adults who read Twilight, watch My Little Pony, or listen to Justin Bieber. I would encourage them to read, watch and listen to things that, while still fun and exciting, are more challenging and more adult-orientated simply because I want more and better things to be more successful.

It's the idea that it's one or the other than I find baffling.

I think part of the fun comes from navigating between both sides of the output and seeing areas that crossover. I mean, we're talking about entertainment here. You may see adults propose that My Little Pony give them joy or cute fits of inspiration, because those things can come from anywhere, but rarely would you see anyone seriously propose it as an intelligent text. My response to Brude was in regards to how people entertain themselves in their free time. Some days we spend it by going to the park and reading that classic you've always put off, some days we decide to burn through the Criterion entries available on Hulu, some days people just want to be lazy for 30 minutes so they watch an episode of The Price is Right or Rosemary and motherfucking Thyme, while I prefer to put on Yo Gabba Gabba or Adventure Time for a smile or two. They're equally passive, but the idea that it's less pathetic to spend it on an "age appropriate" program is absolutely illogical outside of arbitrary social construct.

Let's not conflate discussions of quality with discussions of demographic. Because if we just pick animation, for example, which started this nonsense, now there's an area where you can't depend on the latter for the former. You of all people I think know how many juvenile and poor anime there are made for an adult audience, while a lot of quality work are made for the shonen audience.

[number8]

During the whole Twilight craze I wanted to keep copies of the Joe Pitt books with me to give to the adult men I'd see reading Twilight on the bus. Now, I'm not saying that the Joe Pitt books are GREAT LITERATURE or anything. However, they are more appropriate for an adult male who wants to read some vampire fiction to read. Also, Huston just happens to be a very good noir/hardboiled writer with great prose. So, if those books would have been as popular as Twilight, then we would probably have more better vampire stuff now than we do. I want the best stuff to be the most successful so we get more of the best stuff.

I guess I'm just into age-appropriate forms of media consumption. Sure, sometimes its good to be nostalgic and do kid things, but I believe that there comes a time when it's healthy for an adult to put away childish things.

By and large, our biggest consumers have always been teenagers. Because the entertainment industry is profit-driven and cultural talking points are driven by success stories, it's inevitable that cultural icons are going to be those that affect teenagers.

It's been that way since The Beatles, Elvis, and Bob Dylan.

[megladon8]

D_Davis has always been really judgmental about what people read. It's kinda weird.

[number8]

For the record, I agree that the Joe Pitt Casebooks are better than Twilight. I don't want to cause confusion there...

[Watashi]

Does it really matter who the fucking target audience for a medium is? Good storytelling is good storytelling for all that matters. A Pixar movie could be equally as engaging and meaningful as any "adult" piece of literature, movie, or whatnot.

It reminds me one of my favorite Bread Bird quotes, "We [Pixar] make films that we ourselves would want to see and then hope that other people would want to see it. If you try to analyze audiences or think there's some sophisticated recipe for success, then I think you are doomed". People spend so much time arguing what demographic a movie is for rather than the actual movie. A movie is a personal statement of feelings and inspiration and if something like Harry Potter or Avatar: The Last Airbender makes a grown adult feel like a better person, then so be it.

[Grouchy]

Have you seen the Rebuild films? Amazing.

No, I actually haven't! That should tell you how far from fandom I fell.