Match Cut Madness 2: Best of the 90s

[Idioteque Stalker]

Welcome to Match Cut Madness 2.0, a March Madness-style bracket tournament in which movies engage in 1v1 battles for glory and for shame. In Madness 1.0, MC chose its favorite films of the 80s (results: Champion: Do the Right Thing, Runner-Up: The Shining, Third Place: Aliens). With Madness 2.0, we are tackling a new decade: the best movies of the 90s.

The Rules: Vote for one of two movies. If you haven't seen both movies, don't vote. If you have seen both movies, you must vote no matter how painful. The movie with the most votes moves to the next round, and the other is burned in a fire and can never be seen again by anyone. Eventually one movie will reign supreme.

____________________________


New in Madness 2.0: The Play-In Round
Have you ever looked at the list of movies in a Madness tournament, thought to yourself, "What is doing here when [superior movie Y] would be a better competitor," and wanted to do something about it? Well now you can -- with The Play-In Round!

No voting will occur in this round. Instead, MC posters (up to a maximum of three times each) are invited to suggest a replacement for any movie that is considered "on the bubble," so long as the suggested replacement has more views on Letterboxd. (https://letterboxd.com/) This way MC can trend toward greater participation while still customizing the brackets (which are again based on Filmspotting's) to reflect its own unique taste.

The 32 movies that are "on the bubble," and therefore able to be replaced:
Arranged in order of Letterboxd views, then separated into groups in order to keep movies competing in their own "weight class," so to speak, since Forrest Gump has no business picking on The Sweet Hereafter.

Fat Chance! (no maximum)
The Truman Show 724k
The Lion King 712k
Jurassic Park 697k

Good Luck (no maximum)
Edward Scissorhands 460k (Replaced by Titanic -- Idioteque Stalker)
Saving Private Ryan 448k
The Sixth Sense 406k
Leon: The Professional 405k
Clueless 369k (Replaced by The Nightmare Before Christmas -- Yxklyx)
Princess Mononoke 328k

Give It Your Best Shot (500k Max)
The Usual Suspects 292k
The Iron Giant 272k
Blair Witch Project 258k
There’s Something About Mary 149k
Office Space 145k
Starship Troopers 141k (Replaced by Scream - Ezee E)

Shouldn’t Be Too Hard (300k Max)
The Thin Red Line 103k
Three Colors: Blue 100k (Replaced by Contact -- Peng)
Boyz N the Hood 86k (Replaced by Ed Wood -- Peng)
My Own Private Idaho 81k (Replaced by Lost Highway -- Yxklyx)
Wild at Heart 80k (Replaced by Three Colors: Blue -- Baby Doll)
All About My Mother 77k
JFK 61k
Glengarry Glen Ross 60k (Replaced by Run Lola Run -- Yxklyx)
Dead Man 59k

Ripe for the Picking (200k Max)
The Piano 52k (Replaced by Three Colors: Red -- Peng)
The Insider 51k (Replaced by The Piano -- Baby Doll)
The Player 48k (Replaced by Basic Instinct -- Baby Doll)
Close-Up 44k
Naked 41k (Replaced by La Haine -- Ezee E)
Safe 31k

You Monster! (100k Max)
Metropolitan 17k (Replaced by Three Kings -- Ezee E)
The Sweet Hereafter 15k

[I]For example: if you would like to suggest The Lost World: Jurassic Park (266k views) you may NOT replace The Iron Giant (272k views) because the movie you suggest has to have more views than the movie you're replacing. Additionally, you may NOT replace The Piano (52k views) because movies in the "Ripe for the Picking" group can only be replaced by movies with fewer than 200k views. You are left with the thirteen movies in between -- plenty of options for a militant evangelizer of The Lost World!

The 32 movies that are locked in, and therefore shouldn't be suggested as replacements:

Barton Fink
Before Sunrise
Being John Malkovich
The Big Lebowski
Boogie Nights
Chungking Express
Dazed and Confused
Eyes Wide Shut
Fargo
Fight Club
Goodfellas
Groundhog Day
Heat
Hoop Dreams
Jackie Brown
LA Confidential
Magnolia
Malcolm X
The Matrix
Miller’s Crossing
Out of Sight
Pulp Fiction
Reservoir Dogs
Rushmore
Schindler’s List
Seven
The Shawshank Redemption
The Silence of the Lambs
Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Toy Story
Trainspotting
Unforgiven

In the end, I alone shall bear the full weight and responsibility of determining which replacements are accepted. As supreme ruler I will always strive to remain fair and impartial, but there are certain ways you can increase/decrease the likelihood your suggestion goes through:

Your film is more likely to be chosen if:
-- Other MC posters chime in with support.
-- You give an impassioned plea.
-- You have seen the movie you are trying to replace.
-- It is part of an underrepresented group: documentaries (only 2 in current bracket), animated films (4), non-English language films (5), cast/crew are minority groups, etc.

Your film is less likely to be chosen if:
-- Other MC posters chime in with dissent.
-- Your main reason for replacing a film is it is too popular or too obscure.
-- You have not seen the movie you are trying to replace.
-- You are trying to replace a film in an underrepresented group (see above) with a film in a group already sufficiently represented (normie films, you know the type). Theoretically, if you tried to replace Hoop Dreams with The Boondock Saints, I’d tell you to save your energy.

If your film is chosen, I HAVE to vote for it in round 1. But don't dilly dally -- once a film has been replaced it can't be replaced again!

____________________________


Round One Results

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense (BLOWOUT)
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe (NAILBITER)
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway (UPSET)
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke (UPSET)
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up (TIE goes to Filmspotting winner)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King (BLOWOUT)
Heat vs. JFK
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine
Malcolm X vs. Contact
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show (BLOWOUT)
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic (BLOWOUT)
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary (BLOWOUT + HUMILIATION)
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother (BLOWOUT)
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space (BLOWOUT)
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas (NAILBITER)
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project (BLOWOUT)
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line (TIE goes to Filmspotting winner)
Fargo vs. Dead Man
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red (UPSET)
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter (NAILBITER)
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood (UPSET)
Seven vs. Scream (BLOWOUT)

Round Two Results

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan (BLOWOUT + HUMILIATION)
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List (UPSET + BLOWOUT)
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional (BLOWOUT)
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke (BLOWOUT)
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day (UPSET)
Heat vs. Basic Instinct (BLOWOUT)
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich (UPSET + BLOWOUT)
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting (BLOWOUT)
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Ed Wood vs. Seven (UPSET + NAILBITER)

Sweet Sixteen Results

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke (UPSET)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia (BLOWOUT)
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood (UPSET + BLOWOUT)

Elite Eight Results

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights (TIE -- goes to Filmspotting winner)
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood (NAILBITER)

Final Four Results

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo (UPSET + BLOWOUT)

Championship Results

Champion: Goodfellas
Runner-Up: Pulp Fiction
Third Place: Fargo

[Idioteque Stalker]

Play-In Round TL;DR

-- You may suggest movies to replace movies that are "on the bubble"
-- The movie you suggest must have more views on Letterboxd than the movie you're replacing
-- I choose which suggestions are accepted, and will vote for all accepted movies in round 1

The 32 movies that are "on the bubble," and therefore able to be replaced:
Arranged in order of Letterboxd views, then separated into groups in order to keep movies competing in their own "weight class," so to speak, since Forrest Gump has no business picking on The Sweet Hereafter.

Fat Chance! (no maximum)
The Truman Show 724k
The Lion King 712k
Jurassic Park 697k

Good Luck (no maximum)
Edward Scissorhands 460k (Replaced by Titanic -- Idioteque Stalker)
Saving Private Ryan 448k
The Sixth Sense 406k
Leon: The Professional 405k
Clueless 369k (Replaced by The Nightmare Before Christmas -- Yxklyx)
Princess Mononoke 328k

Give It Your Best Shot (500k Max)
The Usual Suspects 292k
The Iron Giant 272k
Blair Witch Project 258k
There’s Something About Mary 149k
Office Space 145k
Starship Troopers 141k (Replaced by Scream - Ezee E)

Shouldn’t Be Too Hard (300k Max)
The Thin Red Line 103k
Three Colors: Blue 100k (Replaced by Contact -- Peng)
Boyz N the Hood 86k (Replaced by Ed Wood -- Peng)
My Own Private Idaho 81k (Replaced by Lost Highway -- Yxklyx)
Wild at Heart 80k (Replaced by Three Colors: Blue -- Baby Doll)
All About My Mother 77k
JFK 61k
Glengarry Glen Ross 60k (Replaced by Run Lola Run -- Yxklyx)
Dead Man 59k

Ripe for the Picking (200k Max)
The Piano 52k (Replaced by Three Colors: Red -- Peng)
The Insider 51k (Replaced by The Piano -- Baby Doll)
The Player 48k (Replaced by Basic Instinct -- Baby Doll)
Close-Up 44k
Naked 41k (Replaced by La Haine -- Ezee E)
Safe 31k

You Monster! (100k Max)
Metropolitan 17k (Replaced by Three Kings -- Ezee E)
The Sweet Hereafter 15k

For example: if you would like to suggest The Lost World: Jurassic Park (266k views) you may NOT replace The Iron Giant (272k views) because the movie you suggest has to have more views than the movie you're replacing. Additionally, you may NOT replace The Piano (52k views) because movies in the "Ripe for the Picking" group can only be replaced by movies with fewer than 200k views. You are left with the thirteen movies in between -- plenty of options for a militant evangelizer of The Lost World!

The 32 movies that are locked in, and therefore shouldn't be suggested as replacements:

Barton Fink
Before Sunrise
Being John Malkovich
The Big Lebowski
Boogie Nights
Chungking Express
Dazed and Confused
Eyes Wide Shut
Fargo
Fight Club
Goodfellas
Groundhog Day
Heat
Hoop Dreams
Jackie Brown
LA Confidential
Magnolia
Malcolm X
The Matrix
Miller’s Crossing
Out of Sight
Pulp Fiction
Reservoir Dogs
Rushmore
Schindler’s List
Seven
The Shawshank Redemption
The Silence of the Lambs
Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Toy Story
Trainspotting
Unforgiven

These two lists combined make up the 64 movies in MC Madness. If you hate some of the movies which are "on the bubble," now's your chance to take them down!

[Dukefrukem]

nevermind... too many views.

[Dukefrukem]

nevermind... not enough views.. WTF

[Dukefrukem]

Okay.. Replace The Piano, with Army of Darkness

[Peng]

Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion 91k replaces Boyz N the Hood 86k
Three Colors: Red 76k replaces The Piano 52k
Contact 105k replaces Blue 100k

[Idioteque Stalker]

The Piano over here like, "WTF did I do?"

[Dukefrukem]

Contact 105k replaces Blue 100k

Seconded

[Ezee E]

Three Kings (64k) > Metropolitan
Perfect Blue (157k) > Close-Up
Scream (328k) > Starship Troopers

Want to throw Home Alone in there, but not from one of those movies.

[Ezee E]

La Haine (130k) > Naked
Speed (182k) > Safe

[Idioteque Stalker]

Okay.. Replace The Piano, with Army of Darkness

+ horror/comedy is a unique genre
- The Piano is part of an underrepresented group
= I am currently undecided on this one. If fellow MCers chime in with support/dissent that may clear things up, or you can try choosing a different movie to replace. (EDIT: The Piano has already been replaced by Peng. You may choose another movie if you want.)



Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion 91k replaces Boyz N the Hood 86k
Three Colors: Red 76k replaces The Piano 52k
Contact 105k replaces Blue 100k

+ Evangelion is animated
- Evangelion is too niche (mainly for people who have completed the series), and Boyz N the Hood is part of an underrepresented group
= Thank you, try again!

+ Three Colors: Red is non-English language
- The Piano is part of an underrepresented group and Three Colors: Blue is already in this tournament (or is it?)
= The Piano is out! Three Colors: Red is in!

+ Contact received support from another MCer (duke), you voted Red in
- Three Colors: Blue is part of an underrepresented group (non-English language)
= Three Colors: Blue is out! Contact is in!



Three Kings (64k) > Metropolitan
Perfect Blue (157k) > Close-Up
Scream (328k) > Starship Troopers

+ Russel is a respected director and hardly anyone has seen Metropolitan
- Whit Stillman is a respected director
= Metropolitan is out! Three Kings is in!

+ Perfect Blue is animated and Satoshi Kon is a respected director
- Close-Up is part of several underrepresented groups (non-English language documentary) and Kiarostami is a respected director
= Thank you, try again!

+ Scream is iconic, a "nah duh" addition
- Starship Troopers is a cult classic and Verhoeven is a respected director
= Starship Troopers is out! Scream is in!

[Idioteque Stalker]

La Haine (130k) > Naked
Speed (182k) > Safe

+ La Haine is non-English language
- Mike Leigh is a respected director
= Naked is out! La Haine is in!

Ezee E has reached the maximum allowed replacements. Peng has one possible replacement left. Duke still has all three.

[Ezee E]

Now get The Piano back in!

Nice thread idea on this!

[Idioteque Stalker]

Now get The Piano back in!

A movie that has been kicked out can be put back in, but a movie that has been put in can not be kicked out. So if someone wants to suggest The Piano replace something, they can do that; but La Haine, for instance, is locked in (as would be The Piano if someone were to get it back in).

Anyways, I agree with you. But I remain impartial!

[baby doll]

Trois couleurs: Bleu replaces Wild at Heart (or are we talking about Derek Jarman's Blue?)
Naked replaces The Player
The Piano replaces The Insider

[Idioteque Stalker]

Trois couleurs: Bleu replaces Wild at Heart (or are we talking about Derek Jarman's Blue?)
Naked replaces The Player
The Piano replaces The Insider

+ Three Colors: Blue is non-English Language, Wild at Heart is hard to track down
- David Lynch is a respected director, Three Colors: Red is already in
= Wild at Heart is out! Three Colors: Blue is in!

Naked does not have more Letterboxd views than The Player. You can suggest another movie to replace if you'd like.

+ The Piano is part of an underrepresented group and isn't Heat enough representation for Michael Mann
- Michael Mann is a respected filmmaker
= The Insider is out! The Piano is in!

EDIT: Not Jarman's Blue. At 7k views, that one is too obscure for a tournament like this. I will refer to Blue as Three Colors: Blue from now on as to avoid confusion. You have one possible replacement left.

[baby doll]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding the rules, but could Basic Instinct (98k views) replace The Player?

[baby doll]

- Michael Mann was a respected filmmakerFixed.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding the rules, but could Basic Instinct (98k views) replace The Player?

+ Paul Verhoeven is a respected filmmaker
- Robert Altman is a respected filmmaker
= The Player is out! Basic Instinct is in!

(Unless you were asking hypothetically, but for now I will assume you were not.)



Fixed.

Haha, I couldn't think of anything else to say. If I were on the other side of this round, The Insider would've been one of the first movies I tried to take down.

[baby doll]

Maybe we ought to change the title of this thread from "Best of the '90s" to "Most Popular Films of the '90s" since so many of the decade's best movies have too few Letterboxd views to even be in consideration:

Alone. Life Wastes Andy Hardy (Martin Arnold, 1998): 1.2k
Les Amants du Pont Neuf (Leos Carax, 1991): 16k
The Apple (Samira Makhmalbaf, 1998): 2.4k
La Cérémonie (Claude Chabrol, 1996): 12k
Cyclo (Tran Anh Hung, 1995): 2.9k
Drifting Clouds (Aki Kaurismäki, 1996): 4.5k
Fast, Cheap, and Out of Control (Errol Morris, 1997): 3.7k
From the Journals of Jean Seberg (Mark Rappaport, 1995): 430
Irma Vep (Olivier Assayas, 1996): 16K
Life, and Nothing More... (Abbas Kiarostami, 1992): 11k
A Moment of Innocence (Mohsen Makhmalbaf, 1996): 9.7k
New Rose Hotel (Abel Ferrara, 1998): 7.2k
Nouvelle vague (Jean-Luc Godard, 1990): 1.8k
El patrullero (Alex Cox, 1991): 795
The Puppet Master (Hou Hsiao-hsien, 1993): 2.5k
Rosetta (Jean-Pierre and Luc Dardenne, 1999): 13k
Ruan Lingyu (Stanley Kwan, 1991): 2.1k
Sátántangó (Béla Tarr, 1994): 17k
Simple Men (Hal Hartley, 1992): 3k
The Story of Qiu Jiu (Zhang Yimou, 1992): 2.4k
The Suspended Step of the Stork (Theo Angelopoulos, 1991): 2.1k
Tilaï (Idrissa Ouédraogo, 1990): 407
To Sleep with Anger (Charles Burnett, 1990): 6.4k
Underground (Emir Kusturica, 1995): 15k
Vive l'amour (Tsai Ming-liang, 1994): 9.7k

[Yxklyx]

Why does it say "Ripe for the Picking (200k Max)" when the highest it can be is 58K since 59K puts it in the next bracket? Anyway, I think I understand, replacing within the same bracket...

Run Lola Run 102K > Glengarry Glen Ross 60k (foreign films under-represented)
Lost Highway 108K > My Own Private Idaho 81k (shouldn't we have at least one Lynch film)
The Nightmare Before Christmas 463K > Clueless 369k (animation under-represented)

have not seen Boyz N the Hood. Surprised that last one wasn't on the original list.

Yeah, it has to be based on popularity otherwise a movie that only ONE person has seen would automatically win - because only he/she could ever vote against it. I would have liked to have seen Careful and Trust on the list but I like my three replacements.

edited: after reading ENTIRE original post.

[baby doll]

have not seen Boyz N the Hood.Having watched both films within the past few years, I'd much rather watch Singleton's film again than Lola rennt.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Why does it say "Ripe for the Picking (200k Max)" when the highest it can be is 58K since 59K puts it in the next bracket? Anyway, I think I understand, replacing within the same bracket...

Yeah, still working out how best to word it. Essentially, you may suggest a replacement for a movie in the "Ripe for the Picking" group as long the new movie has fewer than 200k views but more views than the movie it's replacing. So if you were to replace Safe, the new movie would have to have between 32k and 200k views. Or if you wanted to replace Office Space (which is in the "Give it your best shot" group) the new movie would have to have between 146k and 500k views.

Out of all these rules I've made up, this one is the most confusing. I may take it out for Madness 3.0 if I can't find a better way to explain it. FWIW, my logic was to protect the teeny tiny movies from being replaced by uber blockbusters.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Run Lola Run 102K > Glengarry Glen Ross 60k (foreign films under-represented)
Lost Highway 108K > My Own Private Idaho 81k (shouldn't we have at least one Lynch film)
The Nightmare Before Christmas 463K > Clueless 369k (animation under-represented)

Yxklyx nailed it.

+ Run Lola Run is non-English language
- David Mamet is a respected screenwriter
= Glengarry Glen Ross is out! Run Lola Run is in!

+ David Lynch is a respected director, Good Will Hunting could be voted in for GVS
- My Own Private Idaho is part of an underrepresented group
= My Own Private Idaho is out! Lost Highway is in!

+ The Nightmare Before Christmas is a classic animated musical
- Clueless is part of an underrepresented group
= Clueless is out! The Nightmare Before Christmas is in!

[Ezee E]

Just like in the NCAA Tourney, it could be "On the Bubble Movies."

[Ezee E]

Maybe we ought to change the title of this thread from "Best of the '90s" to "Most Popular Films of the '90s" since so many of the decade's best movies have too few Letterboxd views to even be in consideration:


Make a tourney! It'll be like the NIT

[Irish]

Maybe we ought to change the title of this thread from "Best of the '90s" to "Most Popular Films of the '90s" since so many of the decade's best movies have too few Letterboxd views to even be in consideration:

Fast, Cheap, and Out of Control (Errol Morris, 1997): 3.7k
Irma Vep (Olivier Assayas, 1996): 16K
New Rose Hotel (Abel Ferrara, 1998): 7.2k
Nouvelle vague (Jean-Luc Godard, 1990): 1.8k
Simple Men (Hal Hartley, 1992): 3k
The Story of Qiu Jiu (Zhang Yimou, 1992): 2.4k
To Sleep with Anger (Charles Burnett, 1990): 6.4k

Legit surprises me these films don't have enough votes on LB.

But this reminds me of a pet theory of mine: Different generations of filmgoers have permanent viewing blindspots, usually centered around when they were old enough to watch movies but not old enough for movies aimed at adults. For Gen X, this period is around the late 70s through the early 80s. For Millennials, it's the early 90s.

So, nobody talks about Julie Christie or "Coming Home," and the careers of Zhang Yimou and Hal Hartley largely disappears. Likewise: "The Horseman on the Roof," "Belle Epoque," "Sirens, "Flesh and Bone," "Wrestling Ernest Hemingway."

The only exceptions are films made by filmmakers who have a legacy, ie, people who are still working and popular now, or films whose subject matter naturally attracts teenage boys (eg: horror movies and war films).

[Ezee E]

Irish, I think he made up all those titles to make up a point.

Verifies...

Fuck.

[Idioteque Stalker]

But this reminds me of a pet theory of mine: Different generations of filmgoers have permanent viewing blindspots, usually centered around when they were old enough to watch movies but not old enough for movies aimed at adults. For Gen X, this period is around the late 70s through the early 80s. For Millennials, it's the early 90s.

Wait wait wait... so this is why I've seen The Big Green, Little Giants, Wild America, Black Beauty, Flubber, The Little Rascals, The Swan Princess, Fly Away Home, Fern Gully, Casper, The Secret Garden, Homeward Bound, Balto, Blank Check, Rookie of the Year, and Heavyweights all multiple times... but I still haven't seen Satantango?

[Peng]

Ed Wood relaces Boyz N the Hood

[transmogrifier]

Ed Wood relaces Boyz N the Hood

Ed Wood is not even in the final 32??? What even is this now

[Ezee E]

Wait wait wait... so this is why I've seen The Big Green, Little Giants, Wild America, Black Beauty, Flubber, The Little Rascals, The Swan Princess, Fly Away Home, Fern Gully, Casper, The Secret Garden, Homeward Bound, Balto, Blank Check, Rookie of the Year, and Heavyweights all multiple times... but I still haven't seen Satantango?

You could rewatch all of those, back-to-back, and still finish before Satantango I'm pretty sure.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Ed Wood relaces Boyz N the Hood

+ Part of an underrepresented group and another MCer chimed in with support (trans)
- Part of an underrepresented group
= Boyz N the Hood is out! Ed Wood is in!

[Idioteque Stalker]

Ezee E, Baby Doll, Yxklyx, and Peng have reached the maximum allowed replacements. Here's what can be gleaned about them as board game players.

Hitting the max in only a few hours (and ruthlessly taking down a movie from the "You Monster!" group), Ezee E hopes for a seven every time he rolls the die in Settlers of Catan because more than anything else he loves using the robber to prey upon weakened/unsuspecting opponents.

After Peng did away with The Piano and Three Colors: Blue, Baby Doll turned right around and put them back into the tournament, locking them in in the process -- clearly the type of person who maintains perfect eye contact when playing an Uno reverse card.

Spending the time to actually read the novel-length post at the beginning of this thread, Yxklyx's tendency to hold up a game of Risk due to analysis paralysis is tolerated by the gaming group -- but the fact that Yxklyx always wins is getting a little old, especially to the guy who drives 45 minutes each way every other Thursday and still hasn't won even once.

After no small amount of hardship -- one suggestion denied and the other two reversed by Baby Doll -- Peng refused to concede, like a Monopoly player who somehow hits Pennsylvania Avenue with three houses, gets a bad Chance draw, then lands on a Boardwalk with hotels but nevertheless proclaims "I'm still in this thing!" Ed Wood himself would be proud.

[Idioteque Stalker]

We have already made significant changes to the original brackets, but my gut tells me we can alter them even more toward Match Cut's taste. In case it helps anyone to have their memory refreshed, here are some movies at all viewership levels that are not currently in Madness 2.0 but I find noteworthy for whatever reason:

Crumb 24k
Beau Travail 27k
The Celebration 35k
Breaking the Waves 39k
Buffalo 66 60k
Paris Is Burning 65k
Chasing Amy 73k
Kids 77k
Audition 80k
Funny Games 95k
Point Break 124k
South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut 126k
Ghost In the Shell 140k
Perfect Blue 157k
Total Recall 170k
The Virgin Suicides 184k
Life Is Beautiful 205k
12 Monkeys 218k
Batman Returns 244k
Romeo and Juliet 250k
Beauty and the Beast 400k
Mulan 432k
Good Will Hunting 507k
Titanic 737k

There are plenty of others, of course. But I figured I'd save some people the hassle.

Also, movies that have been kicked out but theoretically could be put back in: Clueless, Starship Troopers, Boyz N the Hood, My Own Private Idaho, Wild at Heart, Glengarry Glen Ross, The Insider, The Player, Naked, and Metropolitan.

Play-In Round rules reminder: Find a movie you'd like to replace that's "on the bubble" (list can be found in top post of thread), then suggest a movie that has more letterboxd views.

I may even consider allowing one more replacement for Ezee E, Baby Doll, Yxklyx, and Peng...

[Ezee E]

I just assumed Titanic was in there. Damn.

But Breaking the Waves and Good Will Hunting tho.

[Idioteque Stalker]

The Play-In Round is almost over.

At this time Ezee, Baby Doll, Yxklyx, and Peng are invited to make one more replacement beyond their max of three. Of course, others may still play as well.

I will also suggest some replacements of my own. If any one of these receives more support than dissent then it will be locked in:

Paris Is Burning > The Sweet Hereafter
Perfect Blue > There’s Something About Mary
Beauty and the Beast > The Usual Suspects
Titanic > Edward Scissorhands

[Ezee E]

I'll second Titanic to replace Edward Scissorhands. Eddie has first round knockout written all over it.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I'll second Titanic to replace Edward Scissorhands. Eddie has first round knockout written all over it.

Yeah, plus thanks to Peng we now have Burton/Depp covered with Ed Wood.

[Yxklyx]

The Play-In Round is almost over.

At this time Ezee, Baby Doll, Yxklyx, and Peng are invited to make one more replacement beyond their max of three. Of course, others may still play as well.

I will also suggest some replacements of my own. If any one of these receives more support than dissent then it will be locked in:

Paris Is Burning > The Sweet Hereafter...

I would like to use my option to "lock-in" The Sweet Hereafter if that's possible (so that it's not replaced) - if not then it should be made possible :)

[Ivan Drago]

I'll second Titanic to replace Edward Scissorhands. Eddie has first round knockout written all over it.

Thirded.

[transmogrifier]

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/884862_90b8076edddd43718befb4b 3b3574a73~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_1000,h_416,al_c,q_90,usm_0.6 6_1.00_0.01/884862_90b8076edddd43718befb4b 3b3574a73~mv2.jpg

That's me on the left, and the organizers of the competition on the right, for not having The Last of the Mohicans on there. It's better than Heat, people!

[baby doll]

The book is lots of fun. Haven't seen any of the film versions, but I'm more interested in the 1920 silent version than the Daniel Day-Lewis one.

[transmogrifier]

I'm more interested in the 1920 silent version than the Daniel Day-Lewis one.

Hmmm, that's a surprise.

:)

[StuSmallz]

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/884862_90b8076edddd43718befb4b 3b3574a73~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_1000,h_416,al_c,q_90,usm_0.6 6_1.00_0.01/884862_90b8076edddd43718befb4b 3b3574a73~mv2.jpg

That's me on the left, and the organizers of the competition on the right, for not having The Last of the Mohicans on there. It's better than Heat, people!Eh, it isn't a bad film or anything, but it still felt like lesser Mann to me (and certainly not as good as Heat) (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?14-28-Film-Discussion-Threads-Later/page2813&p=632193&viewfull=1#post632193), with its standard-issue obligatory romance, and the wannabe "stately" tone that couldn't help but make it feel a fairly inauthentic effort overall, since it's so far removed from the urban grit that Mann usually specializes in. It was basically his Spartacus​, if you ask me.
The book is lots of fun. Haven't seen any of the film versions, but I'm more interested in the 1920 silent version than the Daniel Day-Lewis one.Haven't read the book, but it sure does seem to be popular in the prison system:


https://youtu.be/EoIjlYPIFlM

[Idioteque Stalker]

Voting for Round One is now open! Vote now by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

Rules Reminder: Vote for one of two movies. If you haven't seen both movies, don't vote. If you have seen both movies, you must vote no matter how painful. The movie with the most votes moves to the next round, and the other is burned in a fire and can never be seen again by anyone.

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
Heat vs. JFK
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine
Malcolm X vs. Contact
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line
Fargo vs. Dead Man
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood
Seven vs. Scream


The Who's Who of Madness 2.0

-- Eight directors have more than one movie in the tournament. Paul Thomas Anderson, James Cameron, David Fincher, Krzysztof Kieslowski, and Richard Linklater have two each. Steven Spielberg and Quentin Tarantino have three each. The Coens have four. Might this be a predictor of later rounds, or will MC rally behind directors with less representation?

-- Madness 1.0 champion Spike Lee (Do the Right Thing) and runner-up Stanley Kubrick (The Shining) each have a movie in the tournament: Malcolm X and Eyes Wide Shut. Can these MC superstars repeat by making another run, or will they take their wins for granted and hit a post-victory slump?

-- Of the 64 movies in the tournament, four (of a possible ten) won the Oscar for Best Picture: The Silence of the Lambs, Unforgiven, Schindler's List, and Titanic. Another nine (of a possible forty) were nominated, but didn't win. No Best Picture nominees from 1995 are in the tournament -- if the tastes of Match Cut and the Academy are as different as they seem, does this spell good fortune for 1995's top seed: David Fincher's Seven?


Find out when voting closes in one week!

[baby doll]

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue (Kieślowski's film has more substantial characters and is more stylistically accomplished)
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan (Soderbergh's film is at least diverting and sexy, if not much else)
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe (Hayne's film is largely successful in what it tries to do; Fincher's isn't)
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway (both are great, but given the choice, I'd rather re-watch Wong's than Lynch's)
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke (see previous)
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up (I haven't watched Demme's film in close to twenty years, and although I liked it, have little desire to see it again, unlike Kiarostami's film)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King (Cameron's film is less a sequel than a big-budget remake but at least it's not terrible)
Heat vs. JFK (Mann's film looked better the last time I saw it whereas Stone's looked worse)
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct (pretty good Linklater vs. Verhoeven's best)
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine (basically a coin-toss decision here)
Malcolm X vs. Contact (of course)
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show (see previous)
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic (I like both of these a lot)
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary (see previous)
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park (can't say I have much desire to re-watch either of these)
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother (I like Anderson's swagger)
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space (not a hard choice)
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings (Eastwood's film may be the most overrated film of the '90s; I prefer White Hunter, Black Heart and A Perfect World)
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas (Boyle's film isn't totally successful--the ending is pretty lame and unconvincing--but it may be the most entertaining thing he's ever done, rivalled only by Millions)
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line (Malick's film is arguably the less successful of the two--it falls apart completely in the last hour--but the first two hours are as brilliant as anything he's done)
Fargo vs. Dead Man (a good movie vs. a great one)
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run (a near-great movie vs. a so-so one)
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano (Linklater's best vs. Campion's second-best)
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red (Kieślowski's may be my favourite film in this tournament)
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter (both are great)
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects (a good but overrated film vs. a thoroughly mediocre one)
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood (Burton's film is good, probably his best, despite the one-note performance from Depp; Tarantino's is better but not one of his best)
Seven vs. Scream (the former is Fincher's best and most disciplined film; I remember the latter being fun)

[Idioteque Stalker]

The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up (I haven't watched Demme's film in close to twenty years, and although I liked it, have little desire to see it again, unlike Kiarostami's film)

This week's toughest match-up for me. I keep going back and forth.




Groundhog Day vs. Titanic (I like both of these a lot)
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary (see previous)

Years ago, someone would've put this in their sig to remind everyone of the time Baby Doll said...




Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space (not a hard choice)

Understatement of the day.




Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red (Kieślowski's may be my favourite film in this tournament)

You monster.




The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects (a good but overrated film vs. a thoroughly mediocre one)

Normie match-up of the week! One college roommate loved Shawshank (the sensitive type) and another loved Usual Suspects (the bad boy).

[Ezee E]

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
Heat vs. JFK
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine
Malcolm X vs. Contact
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line
Fargo vs. Dead Man
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood
Seven vs. Scream

[Ezee E]

Seven VS. Scream

WHYYYYYY????????

[Idioteque Stalker]

Ezee E locks in three movies of his choice (La Haine, Scream, and Three Kings) and then promptly votes AGAINST them in round 1:

https://media.tenor.com/images/580cce40676689f39bde67e95d2ba0 aa/tenor.png

EDIT:



Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space


Monster!

[transmogrifier]

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
Heat vs. JFK
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine
Malcolm X vs. Contact
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line
Fargo vs. Dead Man
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood
Seven vs. Scream

[Idioteque Stalker]

It's official. Trans hates Tarantino.

And I'm learning that Match Cut loves James Cameron? Aliens and The Terminator went way further than I expected in Madness 1.0, and Terminator 2 is currently destroying The Lion King.

[Lazlo]

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
Heat vs. JFK
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine
Malcolm X vs. Contact
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line
Fargo vs. Dead Man
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood
Seven vs. Scream

[Peng]

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
Heat vs. JFK
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine
Malcolm X vs. Contact
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line
Fargo vs. Dead Man
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood
Seven vs. Scream

[Ezee E]

It's official. Trans hates Tarantino.

And I'm learning that Match Cut loves James Cameron? Aliens and The Terminator went way further than I expected in Madness 1.0, and Terminator 2 is currently destroying The Lion King.

lol. I said the same thing.

[baby doll]

Fight Club vs. Safe*Shakes head disapprovingly*

[transmogrifier]

*Shakes head disapprovingly*

Shit, I had to change my vote because I realized I haven't even seen Safe.

[transmogrifier]

It's official. Trans hates Tarantino.

And I'm learning that Match Cut loves James Cameron? Aliens and The Terminator went way further than I expected in Madness 1.0, and Terminator 2 is currently destroying The Lion King.

I like both Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs plenty, they are just up against better films. Jackie Brown is mad overrated though.

And The Lion King is boring. I would have voted against it against pretty much any film in this competition... actually, looking at the list, I would have voted against it against every single film in this competition, except the two I haven't seen.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Shit, I had to change my vote because I realized I haven't even seen Safe.

Thanks for noting this. I usually tally votes as they come in, so if something changes I won't catch it unless someone says something.

[Dukefrukem]

I hate that I can't vote for Pulp Fiction.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I hate that I can't vote for Pulp Fiction.

So far it's a surprisingly tight match-up with Three Colors: Blue. In fact, aside from Goodfellas (which is creaming There's Something About Mary), all of the #1 seeds are currently in danger: Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue, The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up, and Fargo vs. Dead Man. Take one or two of those out in the first round and things will turn wild.

FWIW, the Filmspotting champs were 1. Fargo 2. Pulp Fiction. 3. Goodfellas.

[StuSmallz]

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Unforgiven (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/unforgiven/) vs. Three Kings
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood
Seven vs. Scream (although to be honest, I'm not crazy about either movie, and would prefer if they hadn't made this list at all)

[Yxklyx]

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway <- tough choice
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
Heat vs. JFK
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct UPDATED
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine
Malcolm X vs. Contact
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show <- tough choice
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line
Fargo vs. Dead Man
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood
Seven vs. Scream

How are ties broken?

[Idioteque Stalker]

How are ties broken?

Tie breaker goes to the movie that had more success in Filmspotting's tournament -- the movie that won its match-up, made it further, or had the higher average margin of victory. (Replacement movies assume the results of the movie they replace.)

Only two ties in Madness 1.0: Dead Poets Society vs. Midnight Run (went to DPS because it won in other tourney), and Stop Making Sense vs. Vagabond (went to SMS because it made it further in other tourney).

[Idioteque Stalker]

According to my self-imposed draconian rule set, I have to vote for replacement movies in round 1. Yes, in some cases it really hurts.

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue (Baby Doll replaced Wild at Heart)
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway (Yxklyx replaced My Own Private Idaho)
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up (OUCH)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
Heat vs. JFK (yawn)
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct (Baby Doll replaced The Player)
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine (Ezee E replaced Naked)
Malcolm X vs. Contact (Peng replaced Three Colors: Blue)
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show (yawn)
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic (I replaced Edward Scissorhands)
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space (YAWN)
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings (Ezee E replaced Metropolitan)
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas (Yxklyx replaced Clueless)
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project (OUCH)
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line
Fargo vs. Dead Man (ouch)
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run (Yxklyx replaced Glengarry Glen Ross)
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano (Baby Doll replaced The Insider)
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red (Peng replaced The Piano)
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood (Peng replaced Boyz N the Hood)
Seven vs. Scream (Ezee E replaced Starship Troopers)

[DFA1979]

I own Safe and haven't seen it yet so I should probably get on that eventually.

[baby doll]

Shit, I had to change my vote because I realized I haven't even seen Safe.It's an apt pairing since they're both movies that posit a link between consumerism and (mental) illness. The difference is that the plot of Haynes' film develops in a way that's logical and convincing, whereas Fight Club--as I've argued elsewhere on this forum--doesn't, betraying a certain contempt for the spectator's intelligence on the part of the filmmakers: either we're not supposed to notice the plot is wildly improbable or we're not supposed to care. The same sort of contempt can be detected to a lesser extent in Pulp Fiction, where John Travolta's character doesn't watch TV when the film needs Samuel L. Jackson to explain what a pilot is and then later references an episode of Cops and laughs at Jackson's reference to Green Acres, as well as some of the more pretentious moments in Magnolia, where the film strains for a significance that the story can't support (e.g., when the gay barfly declares, Ã* propos of nothing, that it's dangerous to confuse children with angels in order to elicit a contrary response from William H. Macy). Conversely, the greatness of the Dardennes, Haynes, Jarmusch, Kieślowski, Kiarostami, Tarr, Téchiné, Yang, and Linklater (excepting the atrocious School of Rock) is in large part a matter of their respect for the integrity of their characters which translates into a respect for the intelligence of the spectator--or, alternatively, a respect for the intelligence of the spectator which manifests itself as a respect for their characters.

[quido8_5]

Long time reader, intermittent poster.

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke (haven't seen Princess Mononoke since I was in over 20 years)
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up (haven't seen close up)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King (great matchup)
Heat vs. JFK (although, JFK's editing is on point)
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine (La Haine is what I want to vote, but haven't seen Boogie Nights in over 20 years as well)
Malcolm X vs. Contact (haven't seen Malcom X)
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show (This one hurt. Both are Fantastic Four
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park (had to think about thi
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line (c'mon, why? Is this the same challenge?)
Fargo vs. Dead Man (Haven't seen Dead Man)
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run (brutal)
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter (Ouch)
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects (Substance > Style)
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood (probably the hardest decision)
Seven . Scream (Scream is a good movie, though! ****/***** IMO)

[quido8_5]

It's an apt pairing since they're both movies that posit a link between consumerism and (mental) illness. The difference is that the plot of Haynes' film develops in a way that's logical and convincing, whereas Fight Club--as I've argued elsewhere on this forum--doesn't, betraying a certain contempt for the spectator's intelligence on the part of the filmmakers: either we're not supposed to notice the plot is wildly improbable or we're not supposed to care. The same sort of contempt can be detected to a lesser extent in Pulp Fiction, where John Travolta's character doesn't watch TV when the film needs Samuel L. Jackson to explain what a pilot is and then later references an episode of Cops and laughs at Jackson's reference to Green Acres, as well as some of the more pretentious moments in Magnolia, where the film strains for a significance that the story can't support (e.g., when the gay barfly declares, Ã* propos of nothing, that it's dangerous to confuse children with angels in order to elicit a contrary response from William H. Macy). Conversely, the greatness of the Dardennes, Haynes, Jarmusch, Kieślowski, Kiarostami, Tarr, Téchiné, Yang, and Linklater (excepting the atrocious School of Rock) is in large part a matter of their respect for the integrity of their characters which translates into a respect for the intelligence of the spectator--or, alternatively, a respect for the intelligence of the spectator which manifests itself as a respect for their characters.

I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you have a problem with American fiction (Jarmusch and Linklater being exceptions, whose work one might argue isn't built on a concept of complete fiction).

[baby doll]

I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you have a problem with American fiction (Jarmusch and Linklater being exceptions, whose work one might argue isn't built on a concept of complete fiction).In addition to the filmmakers cited above (and I should've included Charles Burnett as well), I'm also a big fan of Nathaniel Hawthorne, Henry James, and William Faulkner. I have nothing against American fiction per se; what I object to is bad storytelling and storytelling has no nationality, although for whatever reason it seems to me that this sort of contempt for the spectator's intelligence has become increasingly pervasive in mainstream US filmmaking since the end of the studio era in the early '60s.

[Irish]

, whereas Fight Club--as I've argued elsewhere on this forum--doesn't, betraying a certain contempt for the spectator's intelligence on the part of the filmmakers: either we're not supposed to notice the plot is wildly improbable or we're not supposed to care. The same sort of contempt can be detected to a lesser extent in Pulp Fiction, where John Travolta's character doesn't watch TV when the film needs Samuel L. Jackson to explain what a pilot is and then later references an episode of Cops and laughs at Jackson's reference to Green Acres,

To defend Tarantino and nitpick your nitpick ---

There are plausible explanations as to why Travolta's character in "Pulp Fiction" contradicted himself (he's watched television in his lifetime, but not recently, for instance), but ultimately it's inconsequential to both the movie and the character. Whether he knows what a pilot is or whether he's seen this or that doesn't add to or subtract from his Vincent Vegas-ness. It's a small disconnect (although an interesting one) but it doesn't register to me as contempt.

It isn't on the same level as something like "Fight Club," whose third act reveal and entire plot requires the audience to throw their suspension of disbelief out the window, and then follow it down and actively bludgeon it on the sidewalk.


[...] it seems to me that this sort of contempt for the spectator's intelligence has become increasingly pervasive in mainstream US filmmaking since the end of the studio era in the early '60s.

Another quibble --- I think this had more to do with the advent of tv than the fall of the studio system. In 1959, television penetration was something like 5% of US households. A few years later, it hovered around 90%. TV is dumb by design. It needs to be, given the limitations of the medium.

Television killed the short story, injured theater and the novel, and eliminated the B picture. All of these were major sources of material for mainstream Hollywood movies. So I can sorta understand why movies floundered; they had less and less to adapt. (It's isn't a coincidence that major weeklies such as The Saturday Evening Post and Collier's declined in readership and eventually stopped publishing during this period.)

I'm not sure how much of that has to do with an active contempt, though, as it does with salability. By the mid to late 70s, smaller studios had closed and larger ones sold themselves to multinational corporations that had nothing to do with the movies, putting more and direct financial pressure on every picture.

[DFA1979]

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue-Only seen Pulp
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant-Only seen Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe-Only seen Fight Club
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke-Only seen JB
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up-Only seen SOTL
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
Heat vs. JFK-Woof this is tough
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine
Malcolm X vs. Contact-Only seen X but I have a feeling I would vote for that one anyways.
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show-This is too hard
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic-Um ok...
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary-Weird pairing
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park-This hurts.
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother-Only seen Magnolia
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space-Only seen Office Space
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line-Only seen Hoop
Fargo vs. Dead Man
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run-Only seem LA
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano-N/A
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red-N/A
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter-Only seen Rushmore
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood
Seven vs. Scream

[baby doll]

To defend Tarantino and nitpick your nitpick ---

There are plausible explanations as to why Travolta's character in "Pulp Fiction" contradicted himself (he's watched television in his lifetime, but not recently, for instance), but ultimately it's inconsequential to both the movie and the character. Whether he knows what a pilot is or whether he's seen this or that doesn't add to or subtract from his Vincent Vegas-ness. It's a small disconnect (although an interesting one) but it doesn't register to me as contempt.

It isn't on the same level as something like "Fight Club," whose third act reveal and entire plot requires the audience to throw their suspension of disbelief out the window, and then follow it down and actively bludgeon it on the sidewalk.Obviously it's not on the same level of egregiousness as Fight Club (nice metaphor by the way), and it is a minor slip up, although I think it's indicative of how thinly the character is conceived: given what we know about him, that he doesn't watch TV seems as probable as him watching TV. Similarly, Jackson's character is so narrowly conceived as a bad motherfucker that it's impossible to imagine him having any career beside gangsterism, so when Tarantino has to gesture towards some kind of future life for him after the movie's final scene, he reverts to references to old TV shows to fill in the gap ("What you mean 'walk the earth'?" "Like Caine in Kung Fu").


Another quibble --- I think this had more to do with the advent of tv than the fall of the studio system. In 1959, television penetration was something like 5% of US households. A few years later, it hovered around 90%. TV is dumb by design. It needs to be, given the limitations of the medium.

Television killed the short story, injured theater and the novel, and eliminated the B picture. All of these were major sources of material for mainstream Hollywood movies. So I can sorta understand why movies floundered; they had less and less to adapt. (It's isn't a coincidence that major weeklies such as The Saturday Evening Post and Collier's declined in readership and eventually stopped publishing during this period.)

I'm not sure how much of that has to do with an active contempt, though, as it does with salability. By the mid to late 70s, smaller studios had closed and larger ones sold themselves to multinational corporations that had nothing to do with the movies, putting more and direct financial pressure on every picture.I didn't mean to suggest that the decline of the studio system caused a decline in the quality of screenwriting, only that even average films from the studio era tend to be less contemptuous of the spectator's intelligence than commercial films made in subsequent decades. (I suspect this phenomenon is not exclusive to the US, although being less familiar with average films from other countries, I can't say for sure.) Television is certainly a contributing factor here, although there are probably other reasons as well--one of which may be the disappearance of the salaried screenwriter. In much the same way that a director like P.T. Anderson needs to make a Big Statement in order to impress himself on the public and the industry as a capital-A Auteur, contemporary screenwriters need to come up with novel gimmicks to sell scripts, even if they wind up making hash of the characters in the process.

[Irish]

Obviously it's not on the same level of egregiousness as Fight Club (nice metaphor by the way), and it is a minor slip up, although I think it's indicative of how thinly the character is conceived: given what we know about him, that he doesn't watch TV seems as probable as him watching TV. Similarly, Jackson's character is so narrowly conceived as a bad motherfucker that it's impossible to imagine him having any career beside gangsterism, so when Tarantino has to gesture towards some kind of future life for him after the movie's final scene, he reverts to references to old TV shows to fill in the gap ("What you mean 'walk the earth'?" "Like Caine in Kung Fu").

On one hand: Excellent point. I agree. You've pinpointed a weakness in Tarantino that's always bugged me --- a preference for attitude and color over character. On the other: "Pulp Fiction" is all about attitude, from individuals (when Jackson literally says, "Alright, let's get into character" to Travolta early on) to the ridiculous figures of Marcellus Wallace and Mr Wolf, to the scenario when Mia demands Vincent help her win a dance trophy at a diner.

The movie is hyper-aware of itself, with a heightened artificiality, and Tarantino is self-consciously writing a genre piece. He's doing pastiche of pastiche. So how much character do we really need?

I'm gonna bait you a little and ask --- how much character is there in Dean Martin's Borrachón in "Rio Bravo"? That doesn't depend on Martin's natural charisma? Or in Ricky Martin's Colorado?

Or to take another example: "Bad Day at Black Rock"? That movie has something like 5 Academy Award winning actors in it and all of them lean into personas and portrayals they've done before. I haven't read the script but I imagine some of those characters read pretty flat on the page.

PS: Admittedly, I creeped on your letterboxd diary and cherry picked 2 examples I knew you'd seen and loved. :D


I didn't mean to suggest that the decline of the studio system caused a decline in the quality of screenwriting, only that even average films from the studio era tend to be less contemptuous of the spectator's intelligence than commercial films made in subsequent decades. (I suspect this phenomenon is not exclusive to the US, although being less familiar with average films from other countries, I can't say for sure.) Television is certainly a contributing factor here, although there are probably other reasons as well--one of which may be the disappearance of the salaried screenwriter. In much the same way that a director like P.T. Anderson needs to make a Big Statement in order to impress himself on the public and the industry as a capital-A Auteur, contemporary screenwriters need to come up with novel gimmicks to sell scripts, even if they wind up making hash of the characters in the process.

I think you're right again. That every screewriter is essentially a stringer certainly doesn't help the art.

But I also think audience expectations are at play. Much as I love (and sometimes hate) the movies, I've probably watched 10,000 more hours of television than anything else. If writers dumb down their writing because they can never be sure their audience is actually in the room (a requirement since TVs inception), I can't help but think that eventually bleeds into other mediums. Over time, both audience and critics can no longer tell good writing from bad (witness the misguided praise towards Disney's terrible MCU television shows, or toward movies as empty as the "John Wick" franchise.)

ETA: Also need to say, good point about PTA & those kinds of gimmicks.

[StuSmallz]

Obviously it's not on the same level of egregiousness as Fight Club (nice metaphor by the way), and it is a minor slip up, although I think it's indicative of how thinly the character is conceived: given what we know about him, that he doesn't watch TV seems as probable as him watching TV.It isn't a slip-up though, not even a minor one; Vincent says "I don't watch TV", as in he doesn't generally watch it in the present tense for whatever reason (maybe because he doesn't own one, for instance), not "I've never watched a single second of TV in my entire life". There's no contradiction between Vincent saying that, and him remembering a detail from a popular show like Green Acres because he used to watch TV as a child back in the 60's (because everybody did back then), or him remembering something from an episode of Cops because as far as we know, he happened to glance at the TV in Lance's living room one time while he was waiting around to buy some more smack.

[quido8_5]

In addition to the filmmakers cited above (and I should've included Charles Burnett as well), I'm also a big fan of Nathaniel Hawthorne, Henry James, and William Faulkner. I have nothing against American fiction per se; what I object to is bad storytelling and storytelling has no nationality, although for whatever reason it seems to me that this sort of contempt for the spectator's intelligence has become increasingly pervasive in mainstream US filmmaking since the end of the studio era in the early '60s.

Contempt for the spectator's intelligence? C'mon, that's a bit of a jump. I doubt most artists go in to the process of creating something with contempt for their audience.

[dreamdead]

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
Heat vs. JFK
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine - still haven't seen La Haine; should throw the dvd in this year...
Malcolm X vs. Contact
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line painful, but Malick stans gonna stan
Fargo vs. Dead Man
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood
Seven vs. Scream

[Idioteque Stalker]

All About My Mother is finally on the board!


Before Sunrise vs. The Piano

How dare you turn your back on your own avatar.

[Idioteque Stalker]

According to Letterboxd, the most obscure movie in this tournament is The Sweet Hereafter at 15k views (followed by Safe at 32k); I find it noteworthy then that Rushmore vs. Sweet Hereafter is not the match-up with the fewest votes (that would be Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up, followed by Malcolm X vs. Contact and Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway). Apparently Match Cut is an internet oasis of Atom Egoyan love.

[Spun Lepton]

Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings (this is tough one)
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Fargo vs. Dead Man
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood
Seven vs. Scream

[Yxklyx]

We all have different things we value in movies. For me, with exceptions the visual component is the most important. Everything else would be secondary with music being the most important of those. Substance is usually important to some degree but if I want real substance I'll read a book. Movies for me are primarily a visual art-form. That's why the movies I like are usually visually appealing. Safe looks ugly to me. It has a washed out color palette - in sharp contrast to films by Jeunet, Almodóvar etc... and the story is just not compelling enough for me. Maybe Haynes was trying to put us in the protagonist's frame of reference, interesting idea but not for me. (I love his audio-visual driven movie Velvet Goldmine) Fight Club on the other hand is made up of one lovely frame after another. Now substance does matter usually so I while find Wes Anderson's films visually appealing they're vapid for the most part, the one notable exception being Moonrise Kingdom. This explains why I love movies like Run Lola Run, Donnie Darko, 2001, Enter the Void, Amelie, Hukkle - all these movies are glorious to look at. Then there are movies that I love because of interesting stories, they're funny or because they are unique. In this category would fall movies like What's Up Doc?, Groundhog Day, Being John Malkovich and Jeanne Dielman - the latter is also very visually appealing in subtle ways (not the typical flashy video experience) - and some films I just love because of their stories or their characters like Nights of Cabiria. Those are the exceptions but for me movies are first and foremost a visual experience.

[Yxklyx]

According to Letterboxd, the most obscure movie in this tournament is The Sweet Hereafter at 15k views (followed by Safe at 32k); I find it noteworthy then that Rushmore vs. Sweet Hereafter is not the match-up with the fewest votes (that would be Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up, followed by Malcolm X vs. Contact and Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway). Apparently Match Cut is an internet oasis of Atom Egoyan love.

There was lots of Egoyan discussion on this forum years ago, maybe in Match Cut version 1 so this might be from the old guard.

[baby doll]

On one hand: Excellent point. I agree. You've pinpointed a weakness in Tarantino that's always bugged me --- a preference for attitude and color over character. On the other: "Pulp Fiction" is all about attitude, from individuals (when Jackson literally says, "Alright, let's get into character" to Travolta early on) to the ridiculous figures of Marcellus Wallace and Mr Wolf, to the scenario when Mia demands Vincent help her win a dance trophy at a diner.

The movie is hyper-aware of itself, with a heightened artificiality, and Tarantino is self-consciously writing a genre piece. He's doing pastiche of pastiche. So how much character do we really need?

I'm gonna bait you a little and ask --- how much character is there in Dean Martin's Borrachón in "Rio Bravo"? That doesn't depend on Martin's natural charisma? Or in Ricky Martin's Colorado?

Or to take another example: "Bad Day at Black Rock"? That movie has something like 5 Academy Award winning actors in it and all of them lean into personas and portrayals they've done before. I haven't read the script but I imagine some of those characters read pretty flat on the page.

PS: Admittedly, I creeped on your letterboxd diary and cherry picked 2 examples I knew you'd seen and loved. :DThe difference between those films and Pulp Fiction is that the characters' traits, actions, and their star personas are all of a piece with one another, whereas some of the traits of Tarantino's characters feel glued on (e.g., Travolta insisting on a please in the episode with Harvey Keitel).

[baby doll]

It isn't a slip-up though, not even a minor one; Vincent says "I don't watch TV", as in he doesn't generally watch it in the present tense for whatever reason (maybe because he doesn't own one, for instance), not "I've never watched a single second of TV in my entire life". There's no contradiction between Vincent saying that, and him remembering a detail from a popular show like Green Acres because he used to watch TV as a child back in the 60's (because everybody did back then), or him remembering something from an episode of Cops because as far as we know, he happened to glance at the TV in Lance's living room one time while he was waiting around to buy some more smack.Of course it's possible to rationalize this seeming contradiction, but I believe my point about the character being thinly conceived still stands.

[baby doll]

Contempt for the spectator's intelligence? C'mon, that's a bit of a jump. I doubt most artists go in to the process of creating something with contempt for their audience.Just the other day Andrei Konchalovsky (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/apr/08/andrei-konchalovsky-im-very-glad-i-failed-in-hollywood) gave an interview in the Guardian where he described an incident in Hollywood in the 1980s in which a producer told him he should move his camera in every shot, regardless of story. Although Konchalovsky doesn't elaborate, I think this kind of thinking does betray a certain contempt for the spectator, who is assumed to have no attention span whatsoever.

[Idioteque Stalker]

We all have different things we value in movies. For me, with exceptions the visual component is the most important. Everything else would be secondary with music being the most important of those. Substance is usually important to some degree but if I want real substance I'll read a book.

You got me thinking. I'm not sure I can definitively say/rank what I find most important in a movie, but I will say that editing has become more and more important to me through the years. Also a great/bad performance can elevate/tank a movie (I feel like acting isn't brought up on MC nearly as much as it is brought up irl).


There was lots of Egoyan discussion on this forum years ago, maybe in Match Cut version 1 so this might be from the old guard.

This is a convincing theory. Pretty sure I watched The Sweet Hereafter because Raiders loved it.

[baby doll]

We all have different things we value in movies. For me, with exceptions the visual component is the most important. Everything else would be secondary with music being the most important of those. Substance is usually important to some degree but if I want real substance I'll read a book. Movies for me are primarily a visual art-form. That's why the movies I like are usually visually appealing. Safe looks ugly to me. It has a washed out color palette - in sharp contrast to films by Jeunet, Almodóvar etc... and the story is just not compelling enough for me. Maybe Haynes was trying to put us in the protagonist's frame of reference, interesting idea but not for me. (I love his audio-visual driven movie Velvet Goldmine) Fight Club on the other hand is made up of one lovely frame after another. Now substance does matter usually so I while find Wes Anderson's films visually appealing they're vapid for the most part, the one notable exception being Moonrise Kingdom. This explains why I love movies like Run Lola Run, Donnie Darko, 2001, Enter the Void, Amelie, Hukkle - all these movies are glorious to look at. Then there are movies that I love because of interesting stories, they're funny or because they are unique. In this category would fall movies like What's Up Doc?, Groundhog Day, Being John Malkovich and Jeanne Dielman - the latter is also very visually appealing in subtle ways (not the typical flashy video experience) - and some films I just love because of their stories or their characters like Nights of Cabiria. Those are the exceptions but for me movies are first and foremost a visual experience.The achievement of Safe is in large part due to its purposeful visual style--and sound mix--in which the tastefully antiseptic environments overwhelm the characters. The film's creepiness emerges largely from Haynes' style, which defamiliarizes the story's milieu. In contrast, the visual styles of Fight Club, Lola rennt, Donnie Darko, Enter the Void, and Amélie are flashy and attention-grabbing but less purposeful, a case of stylishness taking the place of style.

[Irish]

The difference between those films and Pulp Fiction is that the characters' traits, actions, and their star personas are all of a piece with one another, whereas some of the traits of Tarantino's characters feel glued on (e.g., Travolta insisting on a please in the episode with Harvey Keitel).

Another good point. (I can't rep you again so soon.)


Substance is usually important to some degree but if I want real substance I'll read a book.

This is sorta like saying, "Visuals are usually important to some degree, but if I want to look at pretty pictures, I'll visit a museum."

[dreamdead]

How dare you turn your back on your own avatar.

I will fight anyone on Before Sunset. And ...Midnight is quite challenging in its final third act, plus the gorgeous Rohmer homage in the avatar. However, Sunrise has always felt to me like a pleasant romance film, yet one that hasn't assimilated all of its ideas into its very film design. So I'll happily celebrate Campion, especially since her 90s run was so great.

[baby doll]

Apparently Match Cut is an internet oasis of Atom Egoyan love.I've never met the guy but I once saw him at a screening of Tian Zhuangzhuang's Horse Thief in 2016 where he boldly unbuckled his belt before the house lights went down.

[baby doll]

The same year I passed Jim Jarmusch on King St. during TIFF. That dude is tall (unlike Egoyan).

[quido8_5]

I remember Sweet Hereafter was was really high on a list that Raiders made. That's why I watched it and loved it. I t is a profoundly sad movie. I don't know how I would react to this after having children. Manchester by the Sea wrecked me, but it's also top five of the last decade for me.

To the obscurity point: when you Google it, the first result is this: http://hereafterpdx.com/

[quido8_5]

Just the other day Andrei Konchalovsky (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/apr/08/andrei-konchalovsky-im-very-glad-i-failed-in-hollywood) gave an interview in the Guardian where he described an incident in Hollywood in the 1980s in which a producer told him he should move his camera in every shot, regardless of story. Although Konchalovsky doesn't elaborate, I think this kind of thinking does betray a certain contempt for the spectator, who is assumed to have no attention span whatsoever.

I think that's a really good point. I hated my experience at film school because they were so condescending about the audience. At the same time, they're not wrong about the average spectator's attention span.

[quido8_5]

I wonder which Coen Brothers film will go the furthest.

[Idioteque Stalker]

To the obscurity point: when you Google it, the first result is this: http://hereafterpdx.com/

I'll have the Jamaican Bowl, and Ezee E will have the Fried Chk'n Po Boy -- with two Oaxacan Old Fashioneds, please and thank you.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I've never met the guy but I once saw him at a screening of Tian Zhuangzhuang's Horse Thief in 2016 where he boldly unbuckled his belt before the house lights went down.

That is either 1. a boss move or 2. an indication he has given up on life -- I won't try to guess which.

And Horse Thief is yet another movie I want to see that is very hard to track down. But I did recently get my hands on copies of City of Sadness and A Moment of Innocence via interlibrary loan, so I'm feeling hopeful these days.

[Ezee E]

I'll have the Jamaican Bowl, and Ezee E will have the Fried Chk'n Po Boy -- with two Oaxacan Old Fashioneds, please and thank you.

Don't tempt me with a good time.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I wonder which Coen Brothers film will go the furthest.

Even though Fargo was the champ in Filmspotting's tourney, I bet you 50 MC rolls with Lebowski.

[baby doll]

That is either 1. a boss move or 2. an indication he has given up on life -- I won't try to guess which.Both of those things can be true.

[Dukefrukem]

Even though Fargo was the champ in Filmspotting's tourney, I bet you 50 MC rolls with Lebowski.

I will do everything in my power to make sure that isn't the case.

[DFA1979]

Fargo is the better of the two. Also I think I have a Coens Brothers related unpopular opinions post based on this discussion.

[Mal]

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up (X)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
Heat vs. JFK
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine (X)
Malcolm X vs. Contact (X)
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line
Fargo vs. Dead Man
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood
Seven vs. Scream

[Yxklyx]

Fargo is the better of the two. Also I think I have a Coens Brothers related unpopular opinions post based on this discussion.

I love Dead Man and would vote for it against half the films here, but not against Fargo.

[transmogrifier]

Dead Man >> Fargo. That's just the way it is.

[Mal]

Dead Man suuuucks (talkin’ smack, yes I am!)

[Ivan Drago]

Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
Malcolm X vs. Contact
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line
Fargo vs. Dead Man
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood
Seven vs. Scream

[Idioteque Stalker]

Neither Dead Man nor Fargo are my favorite from their respective directors, but I gotta support my main man Jim Jarmusch. Plus, Coens have four movies in this tournament. They'll be fine.

[transmogrifier]

Dead Man suuuucks (talkin’ smack, yes I am!)

"Every night and every morn, some to misery are born."

[StuSmallz]

Of course it's possible to rationalize this seeming contradiction, but I believe my point about the character being thinly conceived still stands.Eh, I don't know about that. I also don't know how Vincent insisting on a "please" from The Wolf in "The Bonnie Situation" is evidence of an inconsistent characterization on his part either; could you elaborate any?

[baby doll]

Eh, I don't know about that. I also don't know how Vincent insisting on a "please" from The Wolf in "The Bonnie Situation" is evidence of an inconsistent characterization on his part either; could you elaborate any?It doesn't really seem to gel with any other aspect of his character; it feels like Tarantino included it because he thought it would make for a funny scene.

[Irish]

It doesn't really seem to gel with any other aspect of his character; it feels like Tarantino included it because he thought it would make for a funny scene.

I agree Vincent is a thin character, but not about this detail. It's entirely within his character, because Vincent is a pain in the ass with a chip on his shoulder.

Vincent is the low man on the Marcellus Wallace totem pole and takes everything too personally. He's defensive and sullen when Paul and Jules kid him about Mia in the bar, then immediately starts shit with Butch for no reason ("You looking at something, friend?" "I'm not your friend, palooka.") He has no social grace in casual settings, like at Lance's suburban dopehouse ("Which one's Trudy? The one with all the shit in her face?" "No, that's Jody. That's my wife."). He's also opinionated at the worst times, as when Jules gives Honey Bunny and Pumpkin the money out of his own wallet ("Jules, you give this fucking nimrod $1,500, I'll shoot him on general principle").

So when he should be humble in front of Mr Wolf because Wolf is saving his ass, he's not. Instead, he talks back, and in the same way he does to everybody else, no matter who they are.

Vincent is a consistently a dickhead. He's thin because that's all he ever is, just like the conception behind Jules (as I think you noted before) can be entirely summed up by that "bad motherfucker" wallet.

[StuSmallz]

It doesn't really seem to gel with any other aspect of his character; it feels like Tarantino included it because he thought it would make for a funny scene.I don't see how, because it's essentially 100% true to Vincent's overall character based off of the way he's portrayed throughout the rest of Pulp (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/pulp-fiction/). I mean, think about it; what do we know about Vincent's general persona? We know that he tends to be laid-back (as seen when he just hangs back and lets Jules do all the talking in the apartment scene, and why his drug of choice just so happens to be a depressant), he's often inconsiderate to others (as seen early on in his lack of empathy for "Tony Rocky Horror" when he says "You play with matches, you get burned"), and he tends to be either hostile to, or at the very least, uncomfortable around strangers (as is noticable in the early part of his date with Mia). So, taking all of that into account, why would it be inconsistent for him, this laid-back, inconsiderate individual who's uncomfortable around strangers to inappropriately ask for The Wolf (a man he's never met before) for a "please" when the guy starts brusquely ordering him around? Plus, part of the point of that scene is to demonstrate his refusal to change for the better in light of the second chance that life (or God, or whatever other force you want to ascribe it to) has given him, as opposed to Jules, which is the reason why one of them gets killed "later" on, and the other lives to wander the earth as a man of peace, you know?

[StuSmallz]

I agree Vincent is a thin character, but not about this detail. It's entirely within his character, because Vincent is a pain in the ass with a chip on his shoulder.

Vincent is the low man on the Marcellus Wallace totem pole and takes everything too personally. He's defensive and sullen when Paul and Jules kid him about Mia in the bar, then immediately starts shit with Butch for no reason ("You looking at something, friend?" "I'm not your friend, palooka.") He has no social grace in casual settings, like at Lance's suburban dopehouse ("Which one's Trudy? The one with all the shit in her face?" "No, that's Jody. That's my wife."). He's also opinionated at the worst times, as when Jules gives Honey Bunny and Pumpkin the money out of his own wallet ("Jules, you give this fucking nimrod $1,500, I'll shoot him on general principle").

So when he should be humble in front of Mr Wolf because Wolf is saving his ass, he's not. Instead, he talks back, and in the same way he does to everybody else, no matter who they are.

Vincent is a consistently a dickhead. He's thin because that's all he ever is, just like the conception behind Jules (as I think you noted before) can be entirely summed up by that "bad motherfucker" wallet.Good points, man.

:cool:

[Dukefrukem]

I agree Vincent is a thin character, but not about this detail. It's entirely within his character, because Vincent is a pain in the ass with a chip on his shoulder.

Vincent is the low man on the Marcellus Wallace totem pole and takes everything too personally. He's defensive and sullen when Paul and Jules kid him about Mia in the bar, then immediately starts shit with Butch for no reason ("You looking at something, friend?" "I'm not your friend, palooka.") He has no social grace in casual settings, like at Lance's suburban dopehouse ("Which one's Trudy? The one with all the shit in her face?" "No, that's Jody. That's my wife."). He's also opinionated at the worst times, as when Jules gives Honey Bunny and Pumpkin the money out of his own wallet ("Jules, you give this fucking nimrod $1,500, I'll shoot him on general principle").

So when he should be humble in front of Mr Wolf because Wolf is saving his ass, he's not. Instead, he talks back, and in the same way he does to everybody else, no matter who they are.

Vincent is a consistently a dickhead. He's thin because that's all he ever is, just like the conception behind Jules (as I think you noted before) can be entirely summed up by that "bad motherfucker" wallet.

He's also bad at his job. Which is shown twice.

[Mr. McGibblets]

There are a lot more of these (than 80s films) that I haven't seen or haven't seen in 20 years.

Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe (I have not seen safe, but would like to vote against Fight Club anyway)
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King
Heat vs. JFK
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine
Malcolm X vs. Contact
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line
Fargo vs. Dead Man
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood
Seven vs. Scream

[Idioteque Stalker]

Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary

I would call you a monster, but at this point a vote for Mary registers as compassion.

[Idioteque Stalker]

With 48 hours left in Round One, we have three ties:

The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line

If you've been thinking about voting and have a preference in these match-ups (or any others), now would be a great time to vote by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

[Yxklyx]

I'll watch Basic Instinct tonight...

[Mal]

I should watch Close-Up and La Haine tonight.

[Idioteque Stalker]

My guess is Mal had a better overall time but Yxklyx had more fun.

[Irish]

It doesn't really seem to gel with any other aspect of his character; it feels like Tarantino included it because he thought it would make for a funny scene.

Having just watched the film again (mostly due to this conversation), I'm gonna reverse myself and agree with you.

Vincent didn't strike me as cantankerous as I thought he was, and Travolta's delivery in this scene feels forced. I think that's due to the weakness in the writing. The dialogue lacks energy, the violence is too grisly, and there's only a small amount dramatic tension. (A ticking clock, which Tarantino undercuts by having Mr Wolf express confidence they can clean the car before Bonnie returns home.)

[Mal]

My guess is Mal had a better overall time but Yxklyx had more fun.

My internet buffered 20 minutes into La Haine and I fell asleep.

[Yxklyx]

Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct - edit to my original post

[Idioteque Stalker]

Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct - edit to my original post

Recency bias!

[transmogrifier]

Ha, Dazed and Confused is the actual best film of the 90s, so it would make sense it would lose to a flashy, shallow piece of nonsense. Never change, Match Cut :)

[quido8_5]

Ha, Dazed and Confused is the actual best film of the 90s, so it would make sense it would lose to a flashy, shallow piece of nonsense. Never change, Match Cut :)

Well, I guess now we know what the actual best film is and can skip the pretense of a competition.

[transmogrifier]

Well, I guess now we know what the actual best film is and can skip the pretense of a competition.

Bingo!

[Peng]

After checking I'm confused. Wasn't Dazed and Confused leading, then when Yxklyx watched it to vote because of the tie's announcement, it actually becomes a tie?

Dazed & Confused - trans, Lazlo, Peng, quido8_5, DFA1979
Basic Instinct - babydoll, Yxklyx, Idioteque Stalker, dreamdead, Mal

[Dukefrukem]

Ha, Dazed and Confused is the actual best film of the 90s, so it would make sense it would lose to a flashy, shallow piece of nonsense. Never change, Match Cut :)

Dazed and Confused sits right next to the Breakfast Club as the most overrated-overappreciated-films on the planet.

[Idioteque Stalker]

After checking I'm confused. Wasn't Dazed and Confused leading, then when Yxklyx watched it to vote because of the tie's announcement, it actually becomes a tie?

Dazed & Confused - trans, Lazlo, Peng, quido8_5, DFA1979
Basic Instinct - babydoll, Yxklyx, Idioteque Stalker, dreamdead, Mal

You have all the votes in the thread correct, but remember PMs are accepted as well.

[Yxklyx]

Recency bias!

Nah, I only gave the former a 7 and the latter is definitely a low-middle 8.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Dazed and Confused sits right next to the Breakfast Club as the most overrated-overappreciated-films on the planet.

Disagree on all accounts. They both get better every time I watch them.

[Yxklyx]

After checking I'm confused. Wasn't Dazed and Confused leading, then when Yxklyx watched it to vote because of the tie's announcement, it actually becomes a tie?

Dazed & Confused - trans, Lazlo, Peng, quido8_5, DFA1979
Basic Instinct - babydoll, Yxklyx, Idioteque Stalker, dreamdead, Mal

Some votes are secret - better that way. I should vote secret a few times.

[Peng]

Oh right, I forgot about PM votes.

[Ezee E]

I've seen Dazed & Confused but can't remember a single scene from it.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I've seen Dazed & Confused but can't remember a single scene from it.

I get this criticism. That being said, it could be levied against many Linklater movies.

[transmogrifier]

Dazed and Confused sits right next to the Breakfast Club as the most overrated-overappreciated-films on the planet.

Nah, it is fantastic. Gets better and better with every viewing. I don't think I've ever seen TBC all the way through.

[DFA1979]

I love Dead Man and would vote for it against half the films here, but not against Fargo.

Fargo is better imo.

[DFA1979]

Dead Man suuuucks (talkin’ smack, yes I am!)

Ok Roger Ebert :p

[DFA1979]

Ha, Dazed and Confused is the actual best film of the 90s, so it would make sense it would lose to a flashy, shallow piece of nonsense. Never change, Match Cut :)

Can't blame me I voted for Dazed and Confused.

[DFA1979]

Dazed and Confused sits right next to the Breakfast Club as the most overrated-overappreciated-films on the planet.

Boooo. Both are awesome.

[transmogrifier]

Can't blame me I voted for Dazed and Confused.

We tried our best. It's a harsh world out there.

[DFA1979]

We tried our best. It's a harsh world out there.Oh well. If anything now I'm planning on buying it on Criterion during their next sale.

[Mal]

Boogie Nights vs. La Haine

La Haine was fine. Unfortunately it did not become nor unseat my favorite movie of all time.

[Mal]

Dazed and Confused is overrated and its a great movie.

[transmogrifier]

Boogie Nights vs. La Haine

La Haine was fine. Unfortunately it did not become nor unseat my favorite movie of all time.

I adore La Haine. Boogie Nights is better.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Round One is now closed. Here are MC's results:


Pulp Fiction vs. Three Colors: Blue
Out of Sight vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. The Sixth Sense (BLOWOUT)
Schindler’s List vs. The Iron Giant
Fight Club vs. Safe (NAILBITER)
Barton Fink vs. Leon: The Professional (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Chungking Express vs. Lost Highway (UPSET)
Jackie Brown vs. Princess Mononoke (UPSET)
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Close-Up (TIE goes to Filmspotting winner)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. The Lion King (BLOWOUT)
Heat vs. JFK
Dazed and Confused vs. Basic Instinct (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Boogie Nights vs. La Haine
Malcolm X vs. Contact
The Big Lebowski vs. The Truman Show (BLOWOUT)
Groundhog Day vs. Titanic (BLOWOUT)
Goodfellas vs. There’s Something About Mary (BLOWOUT + HUMILIATION)
Miller’s Crossing vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. All About My Mother (BLOWOUT)
Being John Malkovich vs. Office Space (BLOWOUT)
Unforgiven vs. Three Kings
Trainspotting vs. The Nightmare Before Christmas (NAILBITER)
The Matrix vs. The Blair Witch Project (BLOWOUT)
Hoop Dreams vs. The Thin Red Line (TIE goes to Filmspotting winner)
Fargo vs. Dead Man
L. A. Confidential vs. Run Lola Run
Before Sunrise vs. The Piano
Eyes Wide Shut vs. Three Colors: Red (UPSET)
Rushmore vs. The Sweet Hereafter (NAILBITER)
The Shawshank Redemption vs The Usual Suspects
Reservoir Dogs vs. Ed Wood (UPSET)
Seven vs. Scream (BLOWOUT)

[Idioteque Stalker]

Voting for Round Two is now open! Vote now by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption
Ed Wood vs. Seven


The Smoldering Aftermath of Round One

-- With nearly a fourth of all match-ups ending in upsets, the massive destruction of round one has left Madness 2.0 a fetid and hopeless wasteland from which MC can only pray to recover. If you feel like blaming/thanking someone, the posters who went with the underdog most frequently (while voting in over half the match-ups) were Yxklyx (50% of the time), Peng (48%), and Mal (40%). Leave some iconoclasm for the rest of us, you agents of chaos!

-- Only three directors with multiple movies have emerged unscathed: PTA, Fincher, and Spielberg -- who, with Saving Private Ryan, Schindler's List, and Jurassic Park, now has the most movies left in the tournament. And while Tarantino and the Coens may have technically survived round one, a few high-profile upsets have left them battered, sore, and distraught, with two fewer movies each going forward. Amidst what seems to be a board-wide re-evaluation, might even their heavy hitters be at risk?

-- After its historic and humiliating win over There's Something About Mary -- which may as well have been knifed repeatedly in a trunk by Joe Pesci -- Goodfellas exits round one as the movie no one wants to go up against. (Sorry Jurassic Park!) It may be too early to predict Goodfellas as Madness Champion, but does anyone have the guts to say otherwise?


Find out when voting closes in five days!

[Yxklyx]

Ha, Dazed and Confused is the actual best film of the 90s, so it would make sense it would lose to a flashy, shallow piece of nonsense. Never change, Match Cut :)

One thing I remember was that the characters looked too old for who they were playing. This was done a lot in the 80s and prior; nowadays the casting is better, Breakfast Club had better age casting even though that was from the mid 80s, which is part of its appeal.

edit: 2nd round votes PM'd.

[Peng]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption
Ed Wood vs. Seven

[Idioteque Stalker]

Congratulations to Baby Doll, Peng, and Yxklyx for having movies they suggested in the Play-In Round make it through the round one gauntlet. (Ezee E also participated in the Play-In Round but none of his movies survived, though I doubt he is too upset since he voted against all of his own movies.)

Baby Doll: Basic Instinct
Peng: Ed Wood, Three Colors: Red
Yxklyx: Lost Highway

These posters will receive one extra vote for each of their movies that makes it to the Sweet Sixteen. The extra vote can then be redeemed for any match-up, in any remaining round of Madness 2.0.

[Mal]

I need to watch Malcolm X but I already know how its gonna go

[dreamdead]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption
Ed Wood vs. Seven

Biggest question mark is The Unforgiven/Trainspotting pairing here for me. Both are perhaps their directors' bests...

[Idioteque Stalker]

I need to watch Malcolm X but I already know how its gonna go

Yep, your new favorite movie.

[Mal]

Yep, your new favorite movie.

Its gonna get a fair shot, ha.

[Spun Lepton]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Ed Wood vs. Seven

[DFA1979]

I need to watch Malcolm X but I already know how its gonna go

Great flick. Sadly that is how I mostly learned about the man since Iowa history books decided not to even mention him when I was a kid. And if they did, well....smh.

[Lazlo]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption
Ed Wood vs. Seven

[Idioteque Stalker]

Dreamdead is the first person to vote in all match-ups this early (EDIT: Lazlo a close second). It wasn't until the Sweet Sixteen of Madness 1.0 that anyone had 100% completion.


The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day

I hereby take back your kudos, monster.

EDIT #2: Everything I've said here is incorrect. Yxklyx was first. I need a red bull. What is clear is we have seen more 90s movies than 80s movies.

[Mr. McGibblets]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day (I would pick GD against most of the movies here)
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption
Ed Wood vs. Seven

[Mal]

Great flick. Sadly that is how I mostly learned about the man since Iowa history books decided not to even mention him when I was a kid. And if they did, well....smh.

My comment was not about the content- rather, its up against Boogie Nights, which has been my favorite movie for 20+ years.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Jurassic Park currently holding its own against Goodfellas!

[baby doll]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L.A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption
Ed Wood vs. Seven

[StuSmallz]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption
Ed Wood vs. Seven

[Idioteque Stalker]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan (YAWN)
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List (ouch)
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X (ouch)
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day (yawn)
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park (YAWN)
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich (OUCH)
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams (OUCH)
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption (yawn)
Ed Wood vs. Seven

I promise to watch Terminator 2 if that match-up ends up being close. That being said, I hope Lambs blows it out because I'd really rather not.

EDIT: who woulda thunk

[megladon8]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption
Ed Wood vs. Seven

A few of these really hurt.

[transmogrifier]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption
Ed Wood vs. Seven

[Ezee E]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption
Ed Wood vs. Seven

[quido8_5]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day (WGAF?)
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day (this one very much hurts-- there are only a handful of movies in the competition that I'd vote over Groundhog Day)
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption
Ed Wood vs. Seven

[transmogrifier]

I hereby take back your kudos, monster.

This is one of the easiest match ups. Groundhog Day is way better than The Big Lebowski.

[megladon8]

I was jarred by how poorly Leon The Professional held up the last time I watched it.

[Dukefrukem]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption

[quido8_5]

I was jarred by how poorly Leon The Professional held up the last time I watched it.

Yeah, definitely one of those movies where I was like "did I watch a different movie when I was younger?" Everything that seemed so cool when I was young came off as either senseless or sleezy.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I promise to watch Terminator 2 if that match-up ends up being close. That being said, I hope Lambs blows it out because I'd really rather not.

Y'all really need to stop making Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2 a close match-up.

[Yxklyx]

Lots of votes for L. A. Confidential over Fargo which is surprising. I'd like to re-watch it but it's only on Starz and they have that stupid logo on the bottom right of the screen. Terminator 2 is good - you should watch it. I signed up with Starz through Prime to re-watch Blue Velvet and 7 minutes in that logo shows up and I fucked out of there and cancelled.

[Ivan Drago]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption
Ed Wood vs. Seven

[Idioteque Stalker]

A few of these really hurt.

this one very much hurts

(basically a coin-toss decision here)

WHYYYYYY????????

This is too hard

painful

(this is tough one)

Never change, Match Cut :)

#madness

[StuSmallz]

Lots of votes for L. A. Confidential over Fargo which is surprising.I liked Fargo a lot, but I wouldn't quite call it great Coen bros, due to it lacking the sheer atmosphere of Blood Simple, or the thematic depths of No Country (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/no-country-for-old-men/), and compared to Confidential, a movie I've grown to appreciate a lot more over the years, it doesn't quite measure up to that. It's still really good, though!

[Dukefrukem]

You guys mind giving me a top 4 priority watch for this list? https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/embarrassing-i-have-not-seen-these-movies/

Do the Right Thing is going to be #1.

[Idioteque Stalker]

You guys mind giving me a top 4 priority watch for this list? https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/embarrassing-i-have-not-seen-these-movies/

Do the Right Thing is going to be #1.

Even if you didn't have children, I would say Totoro.

[Dukefrukem]

Even if you didn't have children, I would say Totoro.

HBOMax!

[Peng]

Seeing some of your likes/dislikes over the year (maybe not exact), I would prioritize Run Lola Run, Princess Mononoke, Midnight Run, and The Right Stuff.

[quido8_5]

You guys mind giving me a top 4 priority watch for this list? https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/embarrassing-i-have-not-seen-these-movies/

Do the Right Thing is going to be #1.

I'd say
1) Amadeus
2) Magnolia
3) My Neighbor Totoro

Judging by what I've read in the past, I think you would thoroughly enjoy The Right Stuff and Broadcast News. They're both great films and easy to watch, but I don't know how much of a priority they should be.

[Mal]

Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Heat vs. Basic Instinct
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X (x)
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption
Ed Wood vs. Seven

[baby doll]

You guys mind giving me a top 4 priority watch for this list? https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/embarrassing-i-have-not-seen-these-movies/

Do the Right Thing is going to be #1.
Spicy
Chungking Express
Close-Up
Dead Man
Do the Right Thing
La Haine
The King of Comedy
Lost Highway
Magnolia
Malcom X
My Neighbour Totoro
Paris, Texas
Princess Mononoke
The Sacrifice
Safe
Sans toi ni loi
The Sweet Hereafter
Trois couleurs: Bleu
Trois couleurs: Rouge

Warm
Amadeus
Barton Fink
Broadcast News
Drugstore Cowboy
A Fish Called Wanda
Grave of the Fireflies
Hoop Dreams
JFK
sex, lies & videotape
The Thin Blue Line
This Is Spinal Tap

Mild
Crimes and Misdemeanors
Lola rennt
Miller's Crossing
Out of Sight
Raising Arizona
The Right Stuff
Stop Making Sense

Cold
Fast Times at Ridgemont High
Heathers
The Untouchables

[Ezee E]

Do The Right Thing
JFK
Hoop Dreams
Chungking Express

[Idioteque Stalker]

Terminator 2 is good - you should watch it.

I am going to watch, and my vote may very well decide the fate of the match-up:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/d045eb9b-694e-4bc9-926e-03cd78e02eec

[quido8_5]

I am going to watch, and my vote may very well decide the fate of the match-up:

https://cdn.dopl3r.com//media/memes_files/unlimited-power-PUsCu.jpg

Terminator 2 vs. Silence of the Lambs is the most bleh match up of this round. I'll be happy to say hasta la vista to either.

[Yxklyx]

Have we had two movies from the same director go head to head?

[Idioteque Stalker]

Have we had two movies from the same director go head to head?

We have not. The closest we've come so far was with Rob Reiner in Madness 1.0: This is Spinal Tap would've matched up with When Harry Met Sally in the sweet sixteen, but Amadeus took out WHMS in round two.

It is theoretically possible that Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List could match up in the Madness 2.0 sweet sixteen, but I'll level with you -- the outlook is grim for Private Ryan.

[StuSmallz]

Terminator 2 vs. Silence of the Lambs is the most bleh match up of this round. I'll be happy to say hasta la vista to either.Aw, you don't like either?

[DFA1979]

#madness

I was once a madman, yes.

[Dukefrukem]

Hey. I just watched Do the Right Thing.

I'm not sure Mookie did the right thing.

[transmogrifier]

Hey. I just watched Do the Right Thing.

I'm not sure Mookie did the right thing.

Welcome to a 30-year-old debate :)

[DFA1979]

Welcome to a 30-year-old debate :)

Nevermind all that the fact that 1989 had some legit great movies and the Academy choose Driving Miss Daisey as the BP winner is a war crime imo. And no I don't care how that movie is spelled.

[Dukefrukem]

Welcome to a 30-year-old debate :)

Any other multi-decade debates exist in films I have embarrassingly not seen?

[Yxklyx]

Hey. I just watched Do the Right Thing.

I'm not sure Mookie did the right thing.

I agree that it was not made clear but he was redirecting their anger from the store owners to the store - to prevent another death.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I agree that it was not made clear but he was redirecting their anger from the store owners to the store - to prevent another death.

I like this interpretation because it is assumes Mookie has good intentions, but I don't think this or any other interpretation is 100% certain.

[Dukefrukem]

I agree that it was not made clear but he was redirecting their anger from the store owners to the store - to prevent another death.

I know that's been the leading argument and it's a little bit suggestive in the way he comes back for his paycheck, but then he takes the extra $200 from Sal anyway... like fuck him.

[Idioteque Stalker]

With about 24 hours left in round two, we have one tie:

The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day

If you've been thinking about voting and have a preference in this match-up (or any others -- plenty of nailbiters at the moment), now would be a great time to vote by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

[Spun Lepton]

With about 24 hours left in round two, we have one tie:

The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day

I give you permission to count my vote twice.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I give you permission to count my vote twice.

I really, really wish I could.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Y'all really need to stop making Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2 a close match-up.

I'm so glad you did because Terminator 2 is one of the best action movies I've ever seen. Turning Arnold into a good guy was genius. Great moments of humor, plus a general "don't take this too seriously" tone that I always appreciate in action movies (the thumbs up at the end was still a little much lol). Breathless pacing. Fantastic villain -- the movie kept finding new ways to show off his powers with special effects that look cool even today. And the kid wasn't annoying!

I 100% assumed I would vote Silence of the Lambs, but:

Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day

[Pop Trash]

With about 24 hours left in round two, we have one tie:

The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day

If you've been thinking about voting and have a preference in this match-up (or any others -- plenty of nailbiters at the moment), now would be a great time to vote by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

Can I vote? I would vote GROUNDHOG DAY easily.

[transmogrifier]

Can I vote? I would vote GROUNDHOG DAY easily.

Yes!

[Pop Trash]

I like this interpretation because it is assumes Mookie has good intentions, but I don't think this or any other interpretation is 100% certain.

I really don't think so either, esp with what Spike Lee has said about the film (which I think you should take with a grain of salt, because the film is much more interesting if it's open ended). The only thing I'll say is that multiple people will have multiple views about the ending of DTRT, and those views likely split by race (although def not always!).

[StuSmallz]

Hey. I just watched Do the Right Thing.

I'm not sure Mookie did the right thing. Don't you think that was the entire point of the film, though?

[Dukefrukem]

Don't you think that was the entire point of the film, though?

Point or message? I don't know what the point of the film is. But the message should be DO THE RIGHT THING? Instead of what actually is shown. And then later justified with a Malcom X quote.

[Ezee E]

What would the right thing have been?

[StuSmallz]

I agree that it was not made clear but he was redirecting their anger from the store owners to the store - to prevent another death.I've never understood the rationale behind this theory; I mean, in addition to Lee denying that that was his intent with the scene, there's no solid evidence supporting it in the film itself (and even some against it, in fact). If the intent in Mookie's reaction was to protect Sal, then why wouldn't he have brought it up in his defense in their confrontation the next day, by saying something like "I only attacked the pizzeria to distract everyone from you?", rather than justify it the way he did instead? As it is, it feels like a theory that white people came up with so they wouldn't have to feel uncomfortable, and accept that a movie portrayed a black man acting out of (justified) anger without explicitly condemning that anger.

[Yxklyx]

I've never understood the rationale behind this theory; I mean, in addition to Lee denying that that was his intent with the scene,...

What Lee thinks is irrelevant when considering the film itself. Only the film is canon, now you can go ahead and include other things not part of the film as part of your analysis but then you're analyzing something more than the film. That said I've flip-flopped on the interpretation myself.

[Dukefrukem]

What Lee thinks is irrelevant when considering the film itself.

I can only think of one other example where the director is wrong about his own interpretation of his film. Any guesses?

[Idioteque Stalker]

Any guesses?

Louis CK with I Love You, Daddy.

[Dukefrukem]

Louis CK with I Love You, Daddy.

Heh. No. Released originally in the 80s.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Round Two is now closed. Here are MC's results:


Pulp Fiction vs. Saving Private Ryan (BLOWOUT + HUMILIATION)
Toy Story vs. Schindler’s List (UPSET + BLOWOUT)
Fight Club vs. Leon: The Professional (BLOWOUT)
Lost Highway vs. Princess Mononoke (BLOWOUT)
The Silence of the Lambs vs. Terminator 2: Judgment Day (UPSET)
Heat vs. Basic Instinct (BLOWOUT)
Boogie Nights vs. Malcolm X
The Big Lebowski vs. Groundhog Day (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Goodfellas vs. Jurassic Park
Magnolia vs. Being John Malkovich (UPSET + BLOWOUT)
Unforgiven vs. Trainspotting (BLOWOUT)
The Matrix vs. Hoop Dreams
Fargo vs. L. A. Confidential
Before Sunrise vs. Three Colors: Red (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Rushmore vs. The Shawshank Redemption (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Ed Wood vs. Seven (UPSET + NAILBITER)

[Idioteque Stalker]

Congratulations to Peng for having TWO movies he suggested in the Play-In Round make it to the Sweet Sixteen (Ed Wood and Three Colors: Red). Peng now has two extra votes that can be redeemed in any match-up, in any remaining round of Madness 2.0.

[Yxklyx]

I can only think of one other example where the director is wrong about his own interpretation of his film. Any guesses?

As I see it, film is an artistic collaboration in which the director's role is just one part. He/She may want X but the end result can end up interpreted as Y by most viewers - and even if the art is entirely under the control of one individual (maybe a novel but even there there could be an editor) there might be subconscious directions that the artist is unaware of and he creates something he wasn't intending to. Ultimately, the viewer's interpretation is the most valid one - for that viewer. There is no right/wrong interpretation and also many of the films we see/analyze today might be looked at in a totally different light decades from now.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Voting for the Sweet Sixteen is now open! Vote now by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood


Underdog Watch!

-- Groundhog Day just defeated The Big Lebowski, an old MC favorite which made Filmspotting's Elite Eight, while Terminator 2: Judgment Day just took out #1 seed The Silence of the Lambs, which made it all the way to Filmspotting's Final Four. It seems as though current-day MC loves movies with titles that end in "Day" -- if Heat and Boogie Nights go down in the Sweet Sixteen, could a match-up of Judgment Day vs. Groundhog Day cause a rift in the space-time continuum and send us back twelve years to an infinite time loop in which Lebowski is one of MC's top ten movies to see before you die? (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?1924-Match-Cut-s-Movies-to-See-Before-You-Die-(or-Get-a-Girlfriend)/page34&p=156069&viewfull=1#post156069)

-- Through a series of notable upsets, Princess Mononoke has outlasted Toy Story to become the last remaining animated film of Madness 2.0. In the Sweet Sixteen of Madness 1.0, Miyazaki's My Neighbor Totoro lost in a nail-biter match-up to The Empire Strikes Back -- can Mononoke destroy something beautiful in Fight Club and become the longest-lasting animated film in MC Madness history?

-- Ed Wood and Three Colors: Red (both submitted by Play-In Round MVP Peng) are undoubtedly the tournament's Cinderella stories up to this point. And while Red's victories over Eyes Wide Shut and Before Sunrise are certainly impressive, it's Ed Wood that is really turning heads after massive wins against Reservoir Dogs and Seven. The clock must eventually strike midnight, however -- does Red stand a chance against Filmspotting champion Fargo, and can Ed Wood stand up to IMDB's top-rated movie The Shawshank Redemption?


Find out when voting closes in four days!

[Dukefrukem]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day (only because Groundhog Day wouldn't make it out of the Elite Eight)
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix

[dreamdead]

Some of these are painful. Surprised about Matrix beating Hoop Dreams.

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood

[StuSmallz]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood

[Idioteque Stalker]

As I see it, film is an artistic collaboration in which the director's role is just one part. He/She may want X but the end result can end up interpreted as Y by most viewers - and even if the art is entirely under the control of one individual (maybe a novel but even there there could be an editor) there might be subconscious directions that the artist is unaware of and he creates something he wasn't intending to. Ultimately, the viewer's interpretation is the most valid one - for that viewer. There is no right/wrong interpretation and also many of the films we see/analyze today might be looked at in a totally different light decades from now.

I agree with this, but am still curious what movie Duke is thinking about.

[Mr. McGibblets]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood

[Idioteque Stalker]

I would take a turn voting by PM this round except I'm the only person who shouldn't do that, since there wouldn't be a second set of eyes.

[baby doll]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood (not crazy about either of these)

[Idioteque Stalker]

-- Only three directors with multiple movies have emerged unscathed: PTA, Fincher, and Spielberg -- who, with Saving Private Ryan, Schindler's List, and Jurassic Park, now has the most movies left in the tournament. And while Tarantino and the Coens may have technically survived round one, a few high-profile upsets have left them battered, sore, and distraught, with two fewer movies each going forward.


In round two Fincher lost Seven, the Coens lost Lebowski, and Spielberg lost both Saving Private Ryan and Jurassic Park. There is now only one director with multiple films left in the tournament: Paul Thomas Anderson.



Have we had two movies from the same director go head to head?

This could still happen but is extremely unlikely because, due to how the brackets were set up, Magnolia and Boogie Nights can only match up in the championship.

[Ezee E]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood

[transmogrifier]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood

[megladon8]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood

[Pop Trash]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke (abstain ... I don't care)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day (real tough, both are in my top ten o' the '90s)
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood (both are top 5 of 1994 tho)

[Idioteque Stalker]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List (OUCH)
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke (ouch)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat (yawn)
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day (YAWN)
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia (OUCH)
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood (yawn)

[Lazlo]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood

[Peng]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day (Sad this is getting semi-trampled)
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia (this one I have to look up my own 90s ranking, because they're very close in my mind, although it's been over a decade and a half since I last saw the latter)
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood

[Spun Lepton]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix

[Idioteque Stalker]

Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day (Sad this is getting semi-trampled)


Don't be so sure. Groundhog Day made a more wild comeback in round two.

[StuSmallz]

What Lee thinks is irrelevant when considering the film itself. Only the film is canon, now you can go ahead and include other things not part of the film as part of your analysis but then you're analyzing something more than the film. That said I've flip-flopped on the interpretation myself.I don't think what he thinks is irrelevant, but a director's intentions are never the starting point of my arguments anyway, because a filmmaker can obviously deliver a message poorly, give off mixed signals, or deliver one they never even intended to, etc. But, the way I approach interpreting movies is, I first look at the movie on its own in a vacuum, and try to come to my own conclusions just based off that, and then I take the filmmakers' intentions into account. So, on top of Lee saying that he never intended the motivations behind Mookie's actions to be to protect Sal from the crowd, I never saw any evidence for that interpretation in the film itself, and arguing for it just feels like indulging in wishful thinking, and hoping that Mookie had been "heroic", rather than the angry man he was in that moment, IMO (although since you feel differently, I'd be interested in hearing the case for the opposite viewpoint).

[DFA1979]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List-Only seen Pulp
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke-Only seen Fight Club
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat-Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day-Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia-Goodfellas, easily
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix-Unforgiven of course
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red-Only seen Fargo
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood-Ed Wood no question

[Yxklyx]

... and hoping that Mookie had been "heroic", rather than the angry man he was in that moment, IMO (although since you feel differently, I'd be interested in hearing the case for the opposite viewpoint).

Well, I've flip-flopped. I thought the opinion I mentioned was a general consensus but when I first watched it I had the opposite opinion (same as you) so I'm ambivalent now. I never take the director's intent into consideration for the same reason that David Lynch doesn't talk about his movies. Donnie Darko would be a classic case of director had no idea what he was doing :) I have the director's cut on blu-ray but refuse to watch it. I couldn't stand those GoT creator commentaries after each episode where they start explaining things - noped right out. I do watch Director's cuts though in general and commentaries for some shows/movies are fine.

[Ivan Drago]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood

[quido8_5]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood

[Mal]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood

[Philip J. Fry]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day - Not seen Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red - Not seen TC:R
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood - Not seen Ed Wood

[Idioteque Stalker]

Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke

I was hoping you'd pop in to support Mononoke. :)

[Philip J. Fry]

I was hoping you'd pop in to support Mononoke. :):cool:

[Idioteque Stalker]

From Madness 1.0:

Raiders vs. Aliens is now the tightest race of the tournament so far.


With MC Madness 2.0's record-setting voter participation in the Sweet Sixteen, we now have a match-up that's even closer:

Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat

With 24 hours left in the Sweet Sixteen -- if you've been thinking about voting and have a preference in this match-up (or any others -- this isn't the only close match-up), now would be a great time to vote by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

[Skitch]

Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix

The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood

[Idioteque Stalker]

Madness Milestone: twenty voters!



Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke

Aaaaand you're a monster.

[Skitch]

Aaaaand you're a monster.

You're the bigger monster making me sophies choice this shit lol

[Idioteque Stalker]

The Sweet Sixteen is now closed. Here are MC's results:


Pulp Fiction vs. Schindler’s List
Fight Club vs. Princess Mononoke (UPSET)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Heat (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Boogie Nights vs. Groundhog Day
Goodfellas vs. Magnolia (BLOWOUT)
Unforgiven vs. The Matrix (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Fargo vs. Three Colors: Red
The Shawshank Redemption vs. Ed Wood (UPSET + BLOWOUT)