Match Cut Madness 2: Best of the 90s

[Peng]

At least one swap of mine (Ed Wood) still hangs on, I guess.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Voting for the Elite Eight is now open! Vote now by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood


Contenders or Pretenders?

Coming off a blowout win over The Shawshank Redemption, Ed Wood appears to be red hot. If you look a little closer, however, you'll notice it's the only remaining movie that survived an early-round nailbiter (against Seven). Meanwhile, Fargo has quietly amassed three solid, if unexceptional, wins over Dead Man, L. A. Confidential, and Three Colors: Red. Does wily newcomer Ed Wood have more tricks up its sleeves, or will the Fargo institution take care of business as usual and prime the wood chipper?

It's been a rough road to the the Elite Eight for Princess Mononoke and Terminator 2. Mononoke had to go through Tarantino, Lynch, and Fincher to get here (pulling out multiple upset wins in the process), while Terminator 2 had close upset wins against both Heat and #1 seed The Silence of the Lambs. They've already made their mark on Madness 2.0 by making it this far -- but with match-ups against Pulp Fiction and Boogie Nights, do these underdogs suddenly find themselves surrounded by wolves?

On the eve of the 93rd Academy Awards, here's an Oscar rundown of the films remaining in Madness 2.0:
-- Aside from Boogie Nights and Princess Mononoke, every movie in the Elite Eight won at least one Oscar.
-- Unforgiven is Oscar's favorite, with four wins including Best Picture and Best Director. The only other movie with as many wins is Terminator 2.
-- Three other movies were nominated for Best Picture but didn't win. Goodfellas lost to Dances with Wolves, Pulp Fiction lost to Forrest Gump, and Fargo lost to The English Patient.
-- Goodfellas' loss to Dances with Wolves is one of Oscar's most notorious snubs. As the only movie in Madness 2.0 to enjoy multiple blowout victories, is Goodfellas gearing up to "take care" of Unforgiven, thus satiating its vengeful bloodlust against the Academy?


Find out when voting closes in four days!

[Peng]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[Idioteque Stalker]

At least one swap of mine (Ed Wood) still hangs on, I guess.

I'm shocked any swap has made it this far. Ed Wood has surpassed all reasonable expectation.

[Spun Lepton]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[megladon8]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[Idioteque Stalker]

From the same point in Madness 1.0:


I'm betting it will be Do the Right Thing vs Blue Velvet and that Do the Right Thing will win.

Excellent call with Do the Right Thing, bad call with Blue Velvet. Predictions for Madness 2.0?

[Skitch]

Those sweet 16 results and I'M the monster?? You people should be ashamed.

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[DFA1979]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke-Man I really should have seen Mononoke by now.
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights-T2
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven-Goodfellas. Sorry Clint.
Fargo vs. Ed Wood-Fargo although I love Ed Wood

[Spun Lepton]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

Contrarian bastard!

[Idioteque Stalker]

Contrarian bastard!

Haha, y'all cancelled out each other's vote, like me and my mom in the last election!

[Pop Trash]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[Yxklyx]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[quido8_5]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke @DFA 1978, I feel ya... really regretting not watching Mononoke by this point
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights (easy match-up... why is T2 still here?)
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven (easy)
Fargo vs. Ed Wood (difficult)

[Ivan Drago]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[Skitch]

(easy match-up... why is T2 still here?)

Because its arguably the best action movie of all time. But ya'll prefer a movie where an underwear model tries to act in a story where he sells peeps at his cock for a fiver. Feel the vibration

[Idioteque Stalker]

Because its arguably the best action movie of all time. But ya'll prefer a movie where an underwear model tries to act in a story where he sells peeps at his cock for a fiver. Feel the vibration

Sperminator 2000: Judgment Lay vs Booger Knights is def the week's hardest match-up for me.

[quido8_5]

Because its arguably the best action movie of all time. But ya'll prefer a movie where an underwear model tries to act in a story where he sells peeps at his cock for a fiver. Feel the vibration

It's a good movie with excellent visual effects. It has a script riddled with hamhanded writing and a plot that is straight out of Screenwriting for Dummies. I don't want to underplay it's significance or very strong action sequences, but one of rhe greats it is not.

As for Boogie Nights, I would be much more comfortable voting for Magnolia, but Boogie Night's scope and preternaturally assured direction gives it the edge.

[Lazlo]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[Pop Trash]

It's a good movie with excellent visual effects. It has a script riddled with hamhanded writing and a plot that is straight out of Screenwriting for Dummies. I don't want to underplay it's significance or very strong action sequences, but one of rhe greats it is not.

As for Boogie Nights, I would be much more comfortable voting for Magnolia, but Boogie Night's scope and preternaturally assured direction gives it the edge.

I love Boogie Nights and T2 but I don't see how Boogie Nights' script is wildly better than T2 from a structure standpoint. Boogie Nights is a classic rise / fall / settle for the love of your adapted "family" after fucking up with drugs and a big ego. It's like "Behind the Music" but with porn stars instead of rock stars.

[Skitch]

.. and a plot that is straight out of Screenwriting for Dummies.

Oh yeah, that 'ol time travelling robot sent back to protect targets of another assassin time travelling robot to protect the future of humans in the upcoming rise of the robot wars cliche. I do remember when T2 came out, most people were like "we're doing this again? groan"

[quido8_5]

Oh yeah, that 'ol time travelling robot sent back to protect targets of another assassin time travelling robot to protect the future of humans in the upcoming rise of the robot wars cliche. I do remember when T2 came out, most people were like "we're doing this again? groan"

Just because it's a convoluted time travel savior storyline doesn't make it a novel one. In film, San Soleil comes immediately to mind as having a similar story line, but the idea in fiction is old hat.

[Pop Trash]

Just because it's a convoluted time travel savior storyline doesn't make it a novel one. In film, San Soleil comes immediately to mind as having a similar story line, but the idea in fiction is old hat.

I think you mean La Jetee?

[quido8_5]

I think you mean La Jetee?

Yep, that's the one. Getting Chris Marker mixed up is what I do on most Friday nights.

[Mr. McGibblets]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven (bleh)
Fargo vs. Ed Wood (Ed Wood would probably be #2 among the 7 of these I've seen)

[quido8_5]

I love Boogie Nights and T2 but I don't see how Boogie Nights' script is wildly better than T2 from a structure standpoint. Boogie Nights is a classic rise / fall / settle for the love of your adapted "family" after fucking up with drugs and a big ego. It's like "Behind the Music" but with porn stars instead of rock stars.

I totally agree. Would not defend either on the strength of the script. Boogie Nights' relative advantage is in the scope (so many characters, so many relationships, and yet I feel like I know most of them) and direction (Cameron's fx-dependent direction isn't outside of what he had shown before and has shown since).

[Mal]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[Idioteque Stalker]

It may be recency bias, but at the moment T2 is my favorite James Cameron movie. I also love Titanic, but it gives me anxiety.

[baby doll]

Princess Mononoke
Boogie Nights
Goodfellas
Fargo

Terminator 2 isn't even the best Terminator movie, much less the best action movie.

[baby doll]

Also, I've never understood the love for Unforgiven, which isn't very gripping as storytelling. It's a western for people who think they're above watching westerns and that deconstructing the genre and/or Clint's screen persona is a higher purpose than telling a good story.

[Ezee E]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[Skitch]

Also, I've never understood the love for Unforgiven, which isn't very gripping as storytelling. It's a western for people who think they're above watching westerns and that deconstructing the genre and/or Clint's screen persona is a higher purpose than telling a good story.

This is me as well. I still dig the flick, but I was never blown away about it the way most people act about it.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I would very much like to see a list of baby doll's favorite action movies.

[transmogrifier]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[Skitch]

You Pulp Fiction people are just out of control. Can't even tell the difference between squares and rectangles.

[transmogrifier]

You Pulp Fiction people are just out of control. Can't even tell the difference between squares and rectangles.

To tell you the truth, I would happily vote against it given that I think its good but not "Top 8 of the Decade" good, but it keeps getting an easy ride through.

[StuSmallz]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven (both are straight-up 10s for me, though)
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[Skitch]

To tell you the truth, I would happily vote against it given that I think its good but not "Top 8 of the Decade" good, but it keeps getting an easy ride through.

Couple of its slots I agree, but Princess Mononoke??? C'mon now! Its time to take a stand against the kitsch lol

[transmogrifier]

A top 4 of Fargo, GoodFellas, T2, and Pulp Fiction is probably the most boring possible result.

[transmogrifier]

Couple of its slots I agree, but Princess Mononoke??? C'mon now! Its time to take a stand against the kitsch lol

I like Mononoke just fine, but PF wins that match up, unfortunately

[Skitch]

A top 4 of Fargo, GoodFellas, T2, and Pulp Fiction is probably the most boring possible result.

Agreed and also PEAK Match-Cut

[transmogrifier]

Agreed and also PEAK Match-Cut

It could be the Top 4 of r/movies on reddit, and we should be better than that.

(I'm just joking really, because like what you like, but still.....)

[Skitch]

It could be the Top 4 of r/movies on reddit, and we should be better than that.

(I'm just joking really, because like what you like, but still.....)

Same page, sir, same page ;)

[Idioteque Stalker]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke (ouch)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights (OUCH)
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven (YAWN)
Fargo vs. Ed Wood (yawn)

[Idioteque Stalker]

Couple of its slots I agree, but Princess Mononoke??? C'mon now! Its time to take a stand against the kitsch lol

I know... I really do feel like a monster.

[megladon8]

A top 4 of Fargo, GoodFellas, T2, and Pulp Fiction is probably the most boring possible result.

Was thinking this exactly.

We are much quirkier than this list would lead an outsider to think.

[Idioteque Stalker]

IMDB's Sweet Sixteen:
1. The Shawshank Redemption
2. Schindler's List
3. Pulp Fiction
4. Fight Club

5. Forrest Gump
6. The Matrix
7. Goodfellas
8. Seven

9. Life Is Beautiful
10. The Silence of the Lambs
11. Saving Private Ryan
12. The Green Mile

13. Leon: The Professional
14. The Lion King
15. The Usual Suspects
16. Terminator 2

[quido8_5]

IMDB's Sweet Sixteen:
1. The Shawshank Redemption
2. Schindler's List
3. Pulp Fiction
4. Fight Club

5. Forrest Gump
6. The Matrix
7. Goodfellas
8. Seven

9. Life Is Beautiful
10. The Silence of the Lambs
11. Saving Private Ryan
12. The Green Mile

13. Leon: The Professional
14. The Lion King
15. The Usual Suspects
16. Terminator 2

I don't see why we all can't get on board with Life is Beautiful.

[Peng]

These Princess Mononoke results... make it stop...

https://64.media.tumblr.com/0c417f50003242f66da66196ae3be0 c1/tumblr_nqqmemaJzd1rf1vfdo1_540 .gifv

[baby doll]

I would very much like to see a list of baby doll's favorite action movies.Define action movie.

[StuSmallz]

Also, I've never understood the love for Unforgiven, which isn't very gripping as storytelling. It's a western for people who think they're above watching westerns and that deconstructing the genre and/or Clint's screen persona is a higher purpose than telling a good story.While I obviously feel that Unforgiven did a good job of deconstructing the Western (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?7947-Stu-Presents-Genre-Deconstruction-In-Film-A-Crash-Course!/page3&p=636177&viewfull=1#post636177) as a whole, that's not the main reason why I love it, as I barely noticed that aspect of the film at all when I first watched it (at the age of 14); the main reason I loved it was because I found it to be emotionally entrancing as a stand-alone narrative, and then I appreciated the way it deconstructed the genre much later.

[Dukefrukem]

Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven

[Dukefrukem]

Would have voted for Pulp Fiction regardless of what was going against it.

[quido8_5]

These Princess Mononoke results... make it stop...

https://64.media.tumblr.com/0c417f50003242f66da66196ae3be0 c1/tumblr_nqqmemaJzd1rf1vfdo1_540 .gifv

Can't say as much for Princess Mononoke staying in the competition.

[transmogrifier]

Define action movie.

"a movie built around action set pieces"
- transmogrifier, 2021

[DFA1979]

I thought it was a movie with action and big explosions plus dudes and chicks with muscles. Also lots of bullets and some kung fu, maybe. Action!

[Idioteque Stalker]

Define action movie.

There are lots of ways to define it, and I'm no expert, but in this instance I'll say movies with at least two explosions and one chase scene.

[quido8_5]

Define action movie.

A movie built around forward momentum, facilitated by exciting set pieces (e.g., explosions, gun rights, car chases), with the main purpose to vicariously thrill and entertain the audience.

I'm fond of saying that boring movies aren't necessarily bad and I think action may be the one genre where that's absolutely untrue. Are action movies defined by their entertainment value?

[Dukefrukem]

Define action movie.

Why is anyone not surprised by this response.

[Skitch]

Why is anyone not surprised by this response.

Because I've interacted with bd before. I rolled my eyes and moved on.

Those responding to it are giving him his upcoming excuses. Quit taking the bait.

Define it however you want, bd. You will anyway.

[transmogrifier]

Why is anyone not surprised by this response.


It's worth asking. I've seen a number of "Best Action Films of X Year/Decade", and there are always a number of listed films where I think "Bullshit that is an action film"

From Time Out's (https://www.timeout.com/film/the-101-best-action-movies-ever-made) list, I don't think The Wild Bunch, Once Upon a Time in the West, Heat, Oldboy etc are action movies

[Idioteque Stalker]

I agree it’s worth asking. Somebody mentioned Stagecoach for instance, and while I get it, defining terms can be useful.

[megladon8]

I don't see what's wrong with baby doll's question.

I've never considered Aliens an action movie, yet it is frequently on "best action movies" lists.

[Skitch]

I don't mean its wrong to ask, I think people inclined to make lists should set their own parameters. The argument about what is and what isn't in such and such genre is annoying and stupid.

[megladon8]

Depends, I guess.

I'll argue all day and night that Star Wars is fantasy, not sci fi. I think "it takes place in space" is often conflated with sci fi. But Star Wars has much more in common thematically and narratively with Lord of the Rings than it does, say, Blade Runner.

Where the line can theoretically get blurry is space opera. But even that typically has strong emphasis on extrapolated real world scientific ideas, and socio political commentary. Look at The Expanse for an example of space opera. The core of the series (books and show) is character and dramatic narrative, but it bases its universe on relatively grounded science and a relatable political climate.

Star Wars is basically Arthurian legend (which is already fantasy) retold in a different setting.

If it had been underwater people would have still called it fantasy. It's purely due to the fact that it is set in space that people call it sci fi.

And I call those people plebs.

[Skitch]

I think it's more than space. Its spaceships and lasers and different planets and aliens. I don't disagree it's heavy fantasy as well.

And this is what I mean...these arguments are dumb. Make any list you like and put any movie on it, who cares.

[megladon8]

Pleb.

[quido8_5]

Depends, I guess.

I'll argue all day and night that Star Wars is fantasy, not sci fi. I think "it takes place in space" is often conflated with sci fi. But Star Wars has much more in common thematically and narratively with Lord of the Rings than it does, say, Blade Runner.

Where the line can theoretically get blurry is space opera. But even that typically has strong emphasis on extrapolated real world scientific ideas, and socio political commentary. Look at The Expanse for an example of space opera. The core of the series (books and show) is character and dramatic narrative, but it bases its universe on relatively grounded science and a relatable political climate.

Star Wars is basically Arthurian legend (which is already fantasy) retold in a different setting.

If it had been underwater people would have still called it fantasy. It's purely due to the fact that it is set in space that people call it sci fi.

And I call those people plebs.

Are action/sci-fi/fantasy mutually exclusive?

[megladon8]

Are action/sci-fi/fantasy mutually exclusive?

Not at all.

But if we made a ven diagram of the 3, I would have Star Wars in the action/fantasy overlap, not sci fi.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Is “adventure” a genre, or is that just video games? Because that’s where I’d put stuff like Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and LOTR.

[megladon8]

Is “adventure” a genre, or is that just video games? Because that’s where I’d put stuff like Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and LOTR.

I feel like it's an offshoot of action.

Not every action movie is an adventure, but pretty much every adventure movie is action.

[Skitch]

Is “adventure” a genre, or is that just video games? Because that’s where I’d put stuff like Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and LOTR.

Yes, adventure is a genre imo, separate from action and scifi.

[quido8_5]

Hypothetical:

You are working at Hollywood Video and you've been tasked with putting away the returned cassettes, after ensuring they're all rewound. Your boss Jarod has been on your ass about getting the genres correct. You have the following sections: Sci-fi, Action, Drama, Comedy. Where do you put the following film:

- Robocop
- Blade Runner
- Mad Max
- Time Bandits
- Satantango

[megladon8]

Robocop sci fi
Blade Runner sci fi
Mad Max action
Time Bandits comedy
Satantango drama

Come on, that was baby town frolics.

[megladon8]

Besides, we all know that any real world video store would have had Satantango in that genre called "foreign".

[Idioteque Stalker]

Besides, we all know that any real world video store would have had Satantango in that genre called "foreign".

Your boss Jarod doesn’t believe in segregation according to language. Your boss Jarod is not ethnocentric.

EDIT: I would put Satantango in the comedy section, then when a customer returns the vhs tape and complains it isn’t funny, I would slap the other five tapes on the counter and say, “You just haven’t gotten to the good parts yet.”

[Ezee E]

Yeah, I would always think of video stores as the best way to classify genre.

The Wild Bunch would be located in Western before Action.
Star Wars would like be in Sci-Fi
Satantango would clearly be located in Comedy.
The Insider would be in Drama

But as Skitch said, make your list, and move on. Certainly open to anyone's interpretation of action.

[quido8_5]

Robocop sci fi
Blade Runner sci fi
Mad Max action
Time Bandits comedy
Satantango drama

Come on, that was baby town frolics.

Jarod disagrees with Robocop. He is on the fence about Time Bandits, but is still docking you because he's a dick.

[Skitch]

Jarod disagrees with Robocop.

Jarod can eat a dick.

But a rental business would probably have some sticker on the tape saying what they classify it, so it can be properly put back on the shelf. Whatever they want to call it, fine. Don't shit where you eat.

[dreamdead]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[StuSmallz]

It's worth asking. I've seen a number of "Best Action Films of X Year/Decade", and there are always a number of listed films where I think "Bullshit that is an action film"

From Time Out's (https://www.timeout.com/film/the-101-best-action-movies-ever-made) list, I don't think The Wild Bunch, Once Upon a Time in the West, Heat, Oldboy etc are action moviesI definitely agree with you about Once Upon A Time (I mean, it's good, but an Action movie it is not), while Heat (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/heat-1995/1/)& ​Oldboy (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/oldboy/) are a Crime Drama/Revenge Thriller (speaking respectively) that just so happen to have one particularly iconic action scene in them apiece, but I think it makes a lot of sense to include The Wild Bunch in that list. I mean, it may not be as "pure" an Action film as something like Die Hard, (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?7947-Stu-Presents-Genre-Deconstruction-In-Film-A-Crash-Course!/page2&p=635718&viewfull=1#post635718) but if you look at it outside the context of its Western setting, I think it has more than enough intense action in it to qualify as partially part of the genre, certainly more so than what else people typically thought of as "Action" movies around that time, like The Dirty Dozen or Bullitt, both of which had one major action scene in them apiece, and that's it.

I also think its importance to Action movies is underestimated because it primarily came from a genre (the Western) where, while the outbursts of violence are common, their portrayals tended to be pretty perfunctory, and, like Tom Breihan wrote (https://film.avclub.com/one-of-the-greatest-westerns-ever-also-birthed-the-john-1798244467) in his article on TWB, "the mechanics of the gunfights in, say, Rio Bravo don’t matter as much as John Wayne’s reaction to what’s happening around him". Compare that to the final shootout in Bunch, and how much time/effort Peckinpah obviously put into it (or even just into the first shootout), and there's a world of difference between it and the typical Western. Plus, its level of influence on future Action movies is undeniable, from the machine gun-driven carnage of Rambo, the slow-motion bloodletting of Woo (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/tag/woo/reviews/), and there are even a couple of handheld cam shots in it that I would argue possibly influenced the cinematography of the Bourne (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/the-bourne-supremacy/)films as well, sort of making it feel like the "Rosetta's Stone" of modern Action movies, even though it may not be the first movie that people typically associate with the genre, you know?
(https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/baby-driver/)

[transmogrifier]

I definitely agree with you about Once Upon A Time (I mean, it's good, but an Action movie it is not), while Heat (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/heat-1995/1/)& ​Oldboy (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/oldboy/) are a Crime Drama/Revenge Thriller (speaking respectively) that just so happen to have one particularly iconic action scene in them apiece, but I think it makes a lot of sense to include The Wild Bunch in that list. I mean, it may not be as "pure" an Action film as something like Die Hard, (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?7947-Stu-Presents-Genre-Deconstruction-In-Film-A-Crash-Course!/page2&p=635718&viewfull=1#post635718) but if you look at it outside the context of its Western setting, I think it has more than enough intense action in it to qualify as part of the genre, certainly more so than what else people typically thought of as "Action" movies around that time, like The Dirty Dozen or Bullitt, both of which had one major action scene in them apiece, and that's it.

I also think its importance to Action movies is underestimated because it primarily came from a genre (the Western) where, while the outbursts of violence are common, their portrayals tended to be pretty perfunctory, and, like Tom Breihan wrote (https://film.avclub.com/one-of-the-greatest-westerns-ever-also-birthed-the-john-1798244467) in his article on TWB, "the mechanics of the gunfights in, say, Rio Bravo don’t matter as much as John Wayne’s reaction to what’s happening around him". Compare that to the final shootout in Bunch, and how much time/effort Peckinpah obviously put into it (or even just into the first shootout), and there's a world of difference between it and the typical Westerm. Plus, its level of influence on future Action movies is undeniable, from the machine gun-driven carnage of Rambo, the slow-motion bloodletting of Woo (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/tag/woo/reviews/), and there are even a couple of handheld cam shots in it that I would argue possibly influenced the cinematography of the Bourne (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/the-bourne-supremacy/)films as well, sort of making it feel like the "Rosetta's Stone" of Action movies, even though it may not be the first movie that people typically associate with the genre, you know?
(https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/baby-driver/)

Good analysis. I still don't really consider it an action film in that it is not really about kineticism and the shootouts are just Western staples ramped up by Peckinpah's excess, but I appreciate that you and others would disagree.

[Dukefrukem]

Heat has three action scenes.

[baby doll]

Besides, we all know that any real world video store would have had Satantango in that genre called "foreign".Not if the video store is in Hungary.

[DFA1979]

Because I've interacted with bd before. I rolled my eyes and moved on.

Those responding to it are giving him his upcoming excuses. Quit taking the bait.

Define it however you want, bd. You will anyway.

I donno I liked his question. Why not define it? I mean adventure movie and action film get mixed up way too much.

[DFA1979]

It's worth asking. I've seen a number of "Best Action Films of X Year/Decade", and there are always a number of listed films where I think "Bullshit that is an action film"

From Time Out's (https://www.timeout.com/film/the-101-best-action-movies-ever-made) list, I don't think The Wild Bunch, Once Upon a Time in the West, Heat, Oldboy etc are action movies

I think Heat kind of is but it's more film noir drama thriller instead to me. Oldboy is definitely not an action movie and the other two are very much westerns.

[DFA1979]

I don't see what's wrong with baby doll's question.

I've never considered Aliens an action movie, yet it is frequently on "best action movies" lists.Aliens is a sci-fi horror flick with strong war movie overtones. So yeah not an action flick to me.

[DFA1979]

Is “adventure� a genre, or is that just video games? Because that’s where I’d put stuff like Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and LOTR.

I think adventure is it's own genre.

[DFA1979]

Video stores are mostly dead so that's just a hypothetical question powered by nostalgia. I'm good.

[megladon8]

Not if the video store is in Hungary.

I laughed.

[StuSmallz]

Good analysis. I still don't really consider it an action film in that it is not really about kineticism and the shootouts are just Western staples ramped up by Peckinpah's excess, but I appreciate that you and others would disagree.Thanks, trans! Anyway, just for the record, I'm not trying to say I feel that The Wild Bunch is a 100% an Action movie, just that, with the amount/intensity of action that it had at such an early point in the genre's history, and its undeniable influence on its subsequent development, I have no problem with it making an Action movies list, especially not when they're trying to come up with as many as 100 picks to fill it up; genre is subjective anyway (as we can see from the last couple of posts in this thread, ha), the lines blur between categories, and some movies are going to have one foot in one genre, and one in another, so I get the decision to avoid a strict genre purism for that list, just like I wouldn't bat an eye if a list of the 100 greatest Horror movies had something Silence Of The Lambs somewhere on it (or even at the #1 spot), you know?

[Gizmo]

Damn, probably my favorite era for films and I missed most of this. Guess I should poke in more often. Anyway:

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

[Idioteque Stalker]

Match Cut seems to have found its sweet spot in the Elite Eight. Match-ups are pretty even across the board, with no blowouts on the horizon. With ~24 hours left to vote, we have two uber-close nail-biters:

Terminator 2 vs. Boogie Nights
Fargo vs. Ed Wood

If you've been thinking about voting and have a preference in these match-ups (or any others), now would be a great time to vote by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

[Grouchy]

Terminator 2
Fargo

[megladon8]

Terminator 2
Ed Wood

[Spun Lepton]

You already voted, Meg, you bastard.

[Skitch]

You already voted, Meg, you bastard.

He's voting in Florida.

[megladon8]

Shit sorry. Honestly misunderstood I thought IS was asking everyone to vote again on those two.

My bad.

[Spun Lepton]

You'll be sorry when you got my foot up your ass. Then you'll have something to cry about. Don't make me turn this message board around.

[megladon8]

...

Are you...coming on to me?

[Skitch]

You'll be sorry when you got my foot up your ass. Then you'll have something to cry about. Don't make me turn this message board around.

Dude...warm up with a trip to Applebees or something.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Dude...warm up with a trip to Applebees or something.

Stop stealing my moves.


"Applebee's: Wouldn't it be funny to go to Applebee's?"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpSo-VJTeE8

[megladon8]

Denny's or bust.

[Philip J. Fry]

Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven

[Ezee E]

Heat can be found in the Crime section.

[StuSmallz]

Heat has three action scenes.I assume the other two you're talking about are the armored truck heist and the shootout with Van Zant's men at the abandoned drive-in? There are a few cool stunts in those scenes, but neither are really lengthy enough IMO (not even when combining them with the bank robbery) for me to consider Heat an Action movie on the whole, not when so much of that 170-minute runtime is taken up by dialogue-driven scenes; a true Action movie for me would have a more even balance of action in it, like Die Hard, that good ol' platonic ideal of the genre, you know?

[Grouchy]

Pulp Fiction
Goodfellas

[Idioteque Stalker]

The Elite Eight is now closed. Here are MC's results:


Pulp Fiction vs. Princess Mononoke
Terminator 2: Judgment Day vs. Boogie Nights (TIE -- goes to Filmspotting winner)
Goodfellas vs. Unforgiven
Fargo vs. Ed Wood (NAILBITER)

[megladon8]

Those are some very disappointing results.

[Skitch]

1 for 4. Way to go MC. Boogie Night and Pulp Fiction's overratedness is only peaked by Scarface.

[megladon8]

I'm done with you guys, professionally.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Voting for the Final Four is now open! Vote now by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo


-- During Elite Eight voting there was plenty of discussion questioning whether or not Match Cut was paving its own way through the tournament. The route to the Final Four has taken many detours, but in the end MC shares three out of four movies with Filmspotting (the only difference is Boogie Nights has replaced The Silence of the Lambs). Of those who may be displeased, megladon8 is the only person who has earned the right to complain, as he was the only one to vote exclusively for the underdogs in the Elite Eight. On the flip-side, Mal was the only one to vote exclusively for the frontrunners, but you may want to direct your hate mail elsewhere since her contrarian bonafides are well-documented in Round One.


But what does your boss Jarod think of all this?

Seeing that I've been early-shift manager at Hollywood Video for nearly four months, you should trust me when I say the 1990s are by far the best era in all of movie history. I don't follow the crowd haha, like for instance everyone says Shawshank is the greatest movie of all time, but for me it's like mayyybe top-five. And I love crazy languages and shit so obviously Life is Beautiful is a must-see, but you gotta make sure you're in the right mood because the dad tries to convince his son the Holocaust is a big joke and, you know, can you imagine what that was like? Man...

Anyway, I know Match Cut wants to know what genre their Final Four belongs in. Lucky for you, I'm gonna make it easy and save you all the hassle of deciding whether Pulp Fiction goes in "comedy" or "action," even though the gimp is HILARIOUS. It just so happens that all these movies -- Boogie Nights, Fargo, Goodfellas, and Pulp Fiction -- make up four of my five choices in the "Jarod's Picks" section near the front of the store. Any guesses what the fifth one is? Haha, just kidding, like I said I'm pretty weird and chances are you haven't heard of it. Jarod out!

-- Which movie will make it to the MC Madness 2.0 Championship: the crime drama with comedic elements? The dramatic comedy with crime elements? Could it be the crime comedy with dramatic elements? Or will Jarod's favorite movie -- which he describes as a "mixture of crime, drama, and comedy" -- reign supreme?


Find out when voting closes in three days!

[Skitch]

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo

...I guess

[baby doll]

Based purely on which movie I'd rather rewatch right now, I vote Boogie Nights and Goodfellas.

[megladon8]

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo

...I guess

Same.

And I echo your sentiment of "I guess..."

[Dukefrukem]

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo

Pretty cut and dry for me.

[Yxklyx]

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo

[Mal]

Boogie Nights
Fargo

[transmogrifier]

Pulp Fiction vs Boogie Nights


​Don't care about the other match up

[quido8_5]

Pulp Fiction
Goodfellas

Wondering if Ed Wood might've been more competitive? It's underdog status may well have propelled it to the top. Kind of a boring top four, but as IS correctly points out: I'm sure this all makes Jarod very happy.

[Idioteque Stalker]

but as IS correctly points out: I'm sure this all makes Jarod very happy.

That was a real interview. My job is to simply report the facts.

[Ezee E]

Pulp Fiction
Goodfellas

I have no problems with this.

[StuSmallz]

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo

[Pop Trash]

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo

[megladon8]

I imagine the best of the 2000's winner will be something like Gladiator.

[Pop Trash]

I imagine the best of the 2000's winner will be something like Gladiator.

Geez I hope not. I just rewatched it. It's not that great. Master and Commander is much better.

[StuSmallz]

I imagine the best of the 2000's winner will be something like Gladiator.I actually wouldn't mind that (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/gladiator-2000/) that much, to be honest with you...

:eek:

[megladon8]

It was the first movie I could think of as being the most boring pick possible for a best of the decade pick.

Like, if Fargo or Pulp Fiction were chosen for the 90s.

[Pop Trash]

It was the first movie I could think of as being the most boring pick possible for a best of the decade pick.

Like, if Fargo or Pulp Fiction were chosen for the 90s.

Except Fargo and Pulp Fiction are much better films than Gladiator imo. It's not even the best historical epic starring Russell Crowe of the 2000s.

[Mr. McGibblets]

The Dark Knight is the Pulp Fiction of the aughts.

[transmogrifier]

I imagine the best of the 2000's winner will be something like Gladiator.

Top 4 Predictions: No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, Inglorious Basterds, Mulholland Dr.

Possible spoilers depending on the match ups: The Dark Knight, Spirited Away, Memento, The Fellowship of the Ring

[Mr. McGibblets]

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo

[Yxklyx]

No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, Inglorious Basterds - all so overrated. I love Master and Commander though. OK, the Tarantino film I like too. I would most likely not vote for the first two against any other film, the Tarantino film could win some but it shouldn't go higher than 16.

[Ivan Drago]

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo

[Peng]

Sigh. Might as well go full bro now:

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo

[Idioteque Stalker]

Top 4 Predictions: No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, Inglorious Basterds, Mulholland Dr.

Possible spoilers depending on the match ups: The Dark Knight, Spirited Away, Memento, The Fellowship of the Ring

There are one or two you are overlooking imo, but yeah... Not bad predictions.

EDIT: And I doubt Gladiator will even make it into the final 64 contestants.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Dances with Wolves is the Gladiator of the 90s, and Memento is the Pulp Fiction of the 00s.

[transmogrifier]

There are one or two you are overlooking imo, but yeah... Not bad predictions.

EDIT: And I doubt Gladiator will even make it into the final 64 contestants.

Eternal Sunshine, Before Sunset, Children of Men, The Royal Tenenbaums? Has to be movies with broad popular support (i.e., not polarizing) that have been widely seen by everyone on the boards, which cuts out a lot of the foreign language options

[transmogrifier]

No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, Inglorious Basterds - all so overrated.

Very true. They will thus cruise into the final 4, unless they end up matching up with each other on the way.

[Ezee E]

2000s predictions:
Children of Men
No Country for Old Men
Human Centipede
Minority Report

[Idioteque Stalker]

Human Centipede

Had to look up release date on LB to see if it was eligible, found it currently sitting at exactly 69k views. Nice.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Eternal Sunshine, Before Sunset, Children of Men, The Royal Tenenbaums?

Pretty sure at this point you are four movies away from the Madness 3.0 Sweet Sixteen. Post four more movies: If you correctly predict all sixteen then I will let you swap one of them out for another movie of your choice that has already been voted out.

It's incredibly unlikely, but what the hell.

[transmogrifier]

Hah, the next four? No idea....

The Incredibles (or Up/Wall-E/Ratatouille... basically a Pixar film, but I can see kind of a split-vote thing happening), In the Mood For Love (could be underseen though), City of God/Oldboy (a requisite "edgy" foreign option), Lost in Translation...

[Idioteque Stalker]

transmogrifier's official Sweet Sixteen predictions:


No Country for Old Men
There Will Be Blood
Inglorious Basterds
Mulholland Dr.
Dark Knight
Spirited Away
Memento
Fellowship of the Ring
Eternal Sunshine
Before Sunset
Children of Men
Royal Tenenbaums
Any ONE Pixar movie (if nothing else, this will be your downfall)
In the Mood for Love
City of God/Oldboy (I'll allow it since the odds are so incredibly against you)
Lost in Translation

Very good predictions overall, but you still get 40/1 odds.

[transmogrifier]

Don't worry, even if I got it exactly correct, I still wouldn't swap anything out because you can't mess with a democracy :)

[Pop Trash]

The Dark Knight is the Pulp Fiction of the aughts.

Na. I've said this before but it's the Terminator 2 of the 2000s. Replete with every middle school boy of their respective eras having the poster on their wall. I don't even know what the Pulp Fiction of the 2000s is. Maybe something like The Royal Tenenbaums (respected young auteur bumps up to a slightly higher budget, more ambition, and gets a hell of an ensemble cast in the process).

[Pop Trash]

Sigh. Might as well go full bro now:

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo

BRO. DUDE. BIG KAHUNA BURGER. smashes a beer bottle on Peng's head

[Idioteque Stalker]

Don't worry, even if I got it exactly correct, I still wouldn't swap anything out because you can't mess with a democracy :)

You don't want to be the king, and that is why you must become the king.



I've said this before but it's the Terminator 2 of the 2000s.

T2 > Dark Knight, if for no other reason than T2 has a sense of humor.

[Ezee E]

I don't think there's a "Pulp Fiction" of the 90's in that it created many imitations, captured the zeitgeist of a generation, and kickstarted (or restarted) several careers.

Closest I can think would be Donnie Darko.

[Yxklyx]

Oh man I have to see that Centipede movie now? Dark Knight is so meh.

[Pop Trash]

I don't think there's a "Pulp Fiction" of the 90's in that it created many imitations, captured the zeitgeist of a generation, and kickstarted (or restarted) several careers.

Closest I can think would be Donnie Darko.

I don't think so either. Not seeing the Donnie Darko comparison. Donnie Darko made like $00.05 at the box office. Pulp Fiction was a runaway theatrical hit with people seeing it multiple times. Maybe something like The Departed, but everyone was well established and the budget was much higher.

[baby doll]

Predictions for the 2000s:

À la verticale de l'été (Tran Anh Hung, 2000)
About Elly (Asghar Farhadi, 2009)
Bamako (Abderrahmane Sissako, 2006)
Los bastardos (Amat Escalante, 2008)
Crimson Gold (Jafar Panahi, 2003)
Devils on the Doorstep (Jiang Wen, 2000)
Distant (Nuri Bilge Ceylan, 2002)
Goodbye, Dragon Inn (Tsai Ming-liang, 2003)
Moolaadé (Sembène Ousmane, 2004)
La niña santa (Lucrecia Martel, 2004)
Platform (Jia Zhangke, 2000)
Shirin (Abbas Kiarostami, 2008)
Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)
Three Times (Hou Hsiao-hsien, 2005)
Tony Manero (Pablo LarraÃ*n, 2008)
Tropical Malady (Apichatpong Weerasethakul, 2004)

[transmogrifier]

I don't think there's a "Pulp Fiction" of the 90's in that it created many imitations, captured the zeitgeist of a generation, and kickstarted (or restarted) several careers.

Closest I can think would be Donnie Darko.

I think The Dark Knight fits there. You could argue that Batman Begins started the trend towards overly serious, stacked cast superhero films, but you could also argue that Reservoir Dogs started the 90s indie crime wave. Pulp Fiction and The Dark Knight took those nascent ventures and blew them up into the public consciousness and gave their creators carte blanche to do what they want.

[transmogrifier]

T2 > Dark Knight, if for no other reason than T2 has a sense of humor.

It's not even close, IMO.

Batman Returns and Batman are both miles better as well.

[Ezee E]

I think The Dark Knight fits there. You could argue that Batman Begins started the trend towards overly serious, stacked cast superhero films, but you could also argue that Reservoir Dogs started the 90s indie crime wave. Pulp Fiction and The Dark Knight took those nascent ventures and blew them up into the public consciousness and gave their creators carte blanche to do what they want.

The only thing for The Dark Knight is that it was an established franchise already. Not original. But you're certainly right in that it led to many imitators afterwards (everything had to be "dark") until MCU took over about 5-6 years later. It made Bale a superstar... Made Nolan the top director in the world.

Yeah, I'll agree with this.

[Philip J. Fry]

Fargo over GoodFellas. I've not seen Boogie Nights.

[Dukefrukem]

I imagine the best of the 2000's winner will be something like Gladiator.

Only if it goes up against Juno every round.

[Lazlo]

Boogie Nights
Goodfellas

[quido8_5]

Sigh. Might as well go full bro now:

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo

Embrace the bro, yo.

[Spun Lepton]

Goodfellas vs. Fargo

Never seen Boogie Nights.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Embrace the bro, yo.

https://higherunlearning.files.wordpre ss.com/2012/12/bro-hug.jpg?w=648

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights (ouch)
Goodfellas vs. Fargo (YAWN)

[Idioteque Stalker]

Predictions for the 2000s:

À la verticale de l'été (Tran Anh Hung, 2000)
About Elly (Asghar Farhadi, 2009)
Bamako (Abderrahmane Sissako, 2006)
Los bastardos (Amat Escalante, 2008)
Crimson Gold (Jafar Panahi, 2003)
Devils on the Doorstep (Jiang Wen, 2000)
Distant (Nuri Bilge Ceylan, 2002)
Goodbye, Dragon Inn (Tsai Ming-liang, 2003)
Moolaadé (Sembène Ousmane, 2004)
La niña santa (Lucrecia Martel, 2004)
Platform (Jia Zhangke, 2000)
Shirin (Abbas Kiarostami, 2008)
Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)
Three Times (Hou Hsiao-hsien, 2005)
Tony Manero (Pablo LarraÃ*n, 2008)
Tropical Malady (Apichatpong Weerasethakul, 2004)

You have broken the machine that generates odds. Presuming it's 500k/1, your prize for a correct prediction is I burn my house down and cut off both pinkies.



Only if it goes up against Juno every round.

If the Madness 3.0 Championship is Juno vs. Gladiator then someone else will need to take over for Madness 4.0, as I will announce my retirement.

[Yxklyx]

Note that if a movie that has only been seen by one person gets in, that movie would automatically win (as long as that one person keeps voting for it) because no one could vote against it due to it not being seen. I hope that's taken into account with these rules... So À la verticale de l'été vs Gladiator for the top spot - Gladiator loses.

[megladon8]

Only if it goes up against Juno every round.

I forgot about Juno.

MatchCut's best of the 2000s winner will be Juno.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Note that if a movie that has only been seen by one person gets in, that movie would automatically win (as long as that one person keeps voting for it) because no one could vote against it due to it not being seen. I hope that's taken into account with these rules... So À la verticale de l'été vs Gladiator for the top spot - Gladiator loses.

This is precisely why the #1 Play-In Round rule is you can only suggest movies that have more LB views than the movie you're replacing.



MatchCut's best of the 2000s winner will be Juno.

Clueless is the Juno of the 90s.

[Mal]

Clueless is the Juno of the 90s.
Nah

[baby doll]

So À la verticale de l'été vs Gladiator for the top spot - Gladiator loses.I should hope so. Of the two, Tran's film is the one that doesn't suck.

[megladon8]

American Hustle will be MatchCut's #1 of the 2010's.

[Dukefrukem]

No Tree of Life

[Grouchy]

Pulp Fiction
Goodfellas

[Ezee E]

1970s will be interesting though. And maybe the better way to go, IMO

[megladon8]

1970s will be interesting though. And maybe the better way to go, IMO

The Godfather.

[Spun Lepton]

Torque will be the winner of the 2000s. Let's be real.

[Dukefrukem]

1970s will be interesting though. And maybe the better way to go, IMO

Not for me. It's my most hated decade.

[StuSmallz]

Not for me. It's my most hated decade.Aw, why? The 70's is my favorite decade (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=2199490#post2199490) in Hollywood history, bro...

[megladon8]

Torque will be the winner of the 2000s. Let's be real.

This made me laugh.

[megladon8]

I love the 70s too but I totally understand Duke's reasoning.

[baby doll]

In terms of Hollywood cinema (since that's pretty obviously what we're discussing here, rather than the New German Cinema or the independent films of Cassavetes, Jost, and Rappaport), the 1970s is an exceptionally overrated decade and it's still leagues better than any decade since. With the sole exception of Billy Wilder's Avanti!, even the best Hollywood films of the decade--McCabe & Mrs. Miller, Barry Lyndon, Days of Heaven--lack the synthesis of narrative, technique, and meaning that ones finds in the best studio-era films: Make Way for Tomorrow, Only Angels Have Wings, Notorious, Letter from an Unknown Woman, Johnny Guitar, The Tarnished Angels, Wild River. Hollywood directors today are more interested in being Genius Auteurs than they are in storytelling and craft.

[dreamdead]

Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo

[Idioteque Stalker]

1970s will be interesting though. And maybe the better way to go, IMO

We will eventually get there, but it will be a while.

[transmogrifier]

I know it will lose, but at least seeing Boogie Nights being competitive makes me happy. Such a great film.

[Dukefrukem]

Aw, why? The 70's is my favorite decade (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=2199490#post2199490) in Hollywood history, bro...

We talked about this in another thread recently and I can't remember which one but I despise the aesthetic. Feels like I'm watching everything through a screen door.

[Ezee E]

Definitely don't think Godfather will win. Although I could see I and II making the Elite Eight.

Godfather
Star Wars
Taxi Driver
Apocalypse Now

[baby doll]

Predictions for the 1970s:

Bildnis einer Trinkerin (Ulrike Ottinger, 1979)
Bush Mama (Haile Germia, 1979)
Ceremonies (Oshima Nagisa, 1971)
Cuadecuc, vampir (Pere Portabella, 1971)
Duvidha (Mani Kaul, 1973)
Geschichtsunterricht (Danièle Huillet/Jean-Marie Straub, 1972)
Ici et ailleurs (Jean-Luc Godard/Anne-Marie Miéville, 1976)
India Song (Marguerite Duras, 1975)
Red Psalm (Miklós Jancsó, 1972)
The Scenic Route (Mark Rappaport, 1978)
Serene Velocity (Ernie Gehr, 1970)
Der Tod der Maria Malibran (Werner Schroeter, 1972)
The Traveling Players (Theo Angelopoulos, 1975)
W.R.: Mysteries of the Organism (Dušan Makavejev, 1971)
Xala (Sembène Ousmane, 1975)
Zorns Lemma (Hollis Frampton, 1970)

[Idioteque Stalker]

Predictions for the 1970s:

Bildnis einer Trinkerin (Ulrike Ottinger, 1979)
Bush Mama (Haile Germia, 1979)
Ceremonies (Oshima Nagisa, 1971)
Cuadecuc, vampir (Pere Portabella, 1971)
Duvidha (Mani Kaul, 1973)
Geschichtsunterricht (Danièle Huillet/Jean-Marie Straub, 1972)
Ici et ailleurs (Jean-Luc Godard/Anne-Marie Miéville, 1976)
India Song (Marguerite Duras, 1975)
Red Psalm (Miklós Jancsó, 1972)
The Scenic Route (Mark Rappaport, 1978)
Serene Velocity (Ernie Gehr, 1970)
Der Tod der Maria Malibran (Werner Schroeter, 1972)
The Traveling Players (Theo Angelopoulos, 1975)
W.R.: Mysteries of the Organism (Dušan Makavejev, 1971)
Xala (Sembène Ousmane, 1975)
Zorns Lemma (Hollis Frampton, 1970)

You forgot the years '77 and '74. I can only assume you meant to include Saturday Night Fever and the original Gone in 60 Seconds.

[baby doll]

You forgot the years '77 and '74. I can only assume you meant to include Saturday Night Fever and the original Gone in 60 Seconds.Unlikely. Match Cut has a well-known bias against crime movies and macho dramas about ethnic New Yorkers.

[Philip J. Fry]

Aw, why? The 70's is my favorite decade (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=2199490#post2199490) in Hollywood history, bro...First time I've seen this forum.

[StuSmallz]

First time I've seen this forum.It's got some good people there (some of whom you may even remember from other places), definitely.

[Idioteque Stalker]

24 hours left to vote in the Final Four! These last two rounds are quick.

[megladon8]

In terms of Hollywood cinema (since that's pretty obviously what we're discussing here, rather than the New German Cinema or the independent films of Cassavetes, Jost, and Rappaport), the 1970s is an exceptionally overrated decade and it's still leagues better than any decade since. With the sole exception of Billy Wilder's Avanti!, even the best Hollywood films of the decade--McCabe & Mrs. Miller, Barry Lyndon, Days of Heaven--lack the synthesis of narrative, technique, and meaning that ones finds in the best studio-era films: Make Way for Tomorrow, Only Angels Have Wings, Notorious, Letter from an Unknown Woman, Johnny Guitar, The Tarnished Angels, Wild River. Hollywood directors today are more interested in being Genius Auteurs than they are in storytelling and craft.

Make Way for Tomorrow is one of the most heartwrenching films I have ever seen.

I've only seen it once, and while I loved it enough to count among some of the best I've ever seen, I have yet to muster the strength to watch it again.

Brutal stuff.

[DFA1979]

Pulp Fiction and Goodfellas get my votes.

[DFA1979]

The 1970s rules. I'll take the decade that set multiple standards in different genres, please.

[DFA1979]

Torque will be the winner of the 2000s. Let's be real.

God willing. Now that's real cinema.

[Idioteque Stalker]

The Final Four is now closed. Here are MC's results:


Pulp Fiction vs. Boogie Nights
Goodfellas vs. Fargo (UPSET + BLOWOUT)

[Idioteque Stalker]

Voting for the Championship/Losers Bracket is now open! The Losers Bracket match-up is to determine 3rd place. Vote now by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

Championship
Pulp Fiction vs. Goodfellas

Losers Bracket
Boogie Nights vs. Fargo

Voting closes in three days!

[Dukefrukem]

Shame on all of you for voting in Goodfellas.

[Dukefrukem]

Championship
Pulp Fiction vs. Goodfellas

Losers Bracket
Boogie Nights vs. Fargo

[baby doll]

Championship
Pulp Fiction vs. Goodfellas

Losers Bracket
Boogie Nights vs. Fargo

[Idioteque Stalker]

I'm with BD on this one. Sorry Duke.

Championship
Pulp Fiction vs. Goodfellas (ouch)

Losers Bracket
Boogie Nights vs. Fargo (yawn)

[Peng]

Championship
Pulp Fiction vs. Goodfellas

Losers Bracket
Boogie Nights vs. Fargo

[megladon8]

Goodfellas

Fargo

[Idioteque Stalker]

Goodfellas is out to an early lead, but Pulp Fiction holds the tie-breaker...

The Losers Bracket is neck and neck -- can underdog Boogie Nights upset Filmspotting Madness Champion Fargo?

[megladon8]

Can we scrap this and give it to Spice World?

[Idioteque Stalker]

I've seen Spice World more times than I care to admit.

[Mal]

Pulp Fiction
Boogie Nights

[megladon8]

I've seen Spice World more times than I care to admit.

So I guess we are saving it for the MatchCut Madness: Best of All Time thread?

[Idioteque Stalker]

So I guess we are saving it for the MatchCut Madness: Beat of All Time thread?

I may swap it in over Aliens in the Play-In Round.

[Yxklyx]

Championship
Pulp Fiction vs. Goodfellas

Losers Bracket
Boogie Nights vs. Fargo

[DFA1979]

Championship
Pulp Fiction vs. Goodfellas

Losers Bracket
Boogie Nights vs. Fargo

[Skitch]

Championship
Pulp Fiction vs. Goodfellas (I'm not sorry)

Losers Bracket
Boogie Nights vs. Fargo (gun to my head)

[quido8_5]

Championship
Pulp Fiction vs. Goodfellas (I'm not sorry)

Losers Bracket
Boogie Nights vs. Fargo (gun to my head)

Bwahah. Losers bracket is definitely more difficult for me than the winners. Have to go with:

Winners
Goodfellas vs. Pulp Fiction

Losers
Fargo vs. Boogie Nights

[baby doll]

Championship
Pulp Fiction vs. Goodfellas (I'm not sorry)Yeah, it was kind of a no-brainer for me as well. I find the pleasures of Scorsese's film (which are primarily behavioural, sociological, and stylistic) a lot more durable than the pleasures of Tarantino's film (structure, plot, and punchy dialogue), making it more fun to revisit. I wouldn't say it necessarily gets better with age but, of the two, it's the one that holds up better over time. Also, Scorsese and Pileggi seem to know the characters' milieu from firsthand experience whereas Tarantino has only seen movies about it. One telling difference between the two films is that, in Scorsese's film, one believes that Lorraine Bracco's character would get involved with Ray Liotta, whereas it's impossible to fathom how Maria de Medeiros got into an abusive relationship with Bruce Willis or why she stays with him (especially when he's willing to put her life in danger).

[Idioteque Stalker]

Fargo vs. Boogie Nights

I thought I knew ye, monster.

[Ezee E]

Goodfellas
Boogie Nights

The real winner: Big steadicams and cocaine

[Spun Lepton]

Championship
Pulp Fiction vs. Goodfellas

[transmogrifier]

Boogie Nights.

Abstain from the most boring decider in history.

[StuSmallz]

Championship
Pulp Fiction vs. Goodfellas

Losers Bracket
Boogie Nights vs. Fargo

[Ivan Drago]

Championship
Pulp Fiction vs. Goodfellas

Losers Bracket
Boogie Nights vs. Fargo

[quido8_5]

I thought I knew ye, monster.

At the end of the day, Boogie Nights just wasn't big enough.

[Mr. McGibblets]

Fargo
Fargo

[Idioteque Stalker]

Fargo
Fargo


Nice try.

EDIT: For now I will count this as one vote for Fargo, abstain from championship.

[Gizmo]

Losers bracket was my championship picks, but i was too late checking in again.

Pulp Fiction

Fargo

[StuSmallz]

In terms of Hollywood cinema (since that's pretty obviously what we're discussing here, rather than the New German Cinema or the independent films of Cassavetes, Jost, and Rappaport), the 1970s is an exceptionally overrated decade and it's still leagues better than any decade since. With the sole exception of Billy Wilder's Avanti!, even the best Hollywood films of the decade--McCabe & Mrs. Miller, Barry Lyndon, Days of Heaven--lack the synthesis of narrative, technique, and meaning that ones finds in the best studio-era films: Make Way for Tomorrow, Only Angels Have Wings, Notorious, Letter from an Unknown Woman, Johnny Guitar, The Tarnished Angels, Wild River. Hollywood directors today are more interested in being Genius Auteurs than they are in storytelling and craft.I thought Notorious was very good, but still about a step and a half down from something like Vertigo, which I've always considered to be peak Hitchcock because of that incredibly vivid, psychologically immersive style, which I feel is more comparable to the general output of the New Hollywood Movement than it is to the Classical Era (which is probably part of the reason why the critics didn't appreciate it as much at the time, heh). Anyway, I'm not saying I feel that movies with relatively "heightened" aesthetics are automatically always better than ones with more subdued overall directions, as there are examples of the former that went a bit too crazy with their artistic expression, like Easy Rider (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?7234-Stu-Presents-1967-1980-A-History-Of-New-Hollywood!&p=594352&viewfull=1#post594352) (and even in some of Hitchcock's work, like the Dali sequence in Spellbound​ that I remember feeling gratuitous). But, at the same time, when a movie can successfully marry a more stylish approach with a certain amount of creative discipline, like the sensible flourishes that The Graduate took with its soundtrack, editing, cinematography, etc. to get us deeper inside Benjamin's emotional "headspace", I feel it serves to enhance the base-level emotions in a way you don't find often in the movies of the studio era, which is why I still have a special fondness for the films of the period that immediately followed the Classical Era to this day.

[baby doll]

I thought Notorious was very good, but still about a step and a half down from something like Vertigo, which I've always considered to be peak Hitchcock because of that incredibly vivid, psychologically immersive style, which I feel is more comparable to the general output of the New Hollywood Movement than it is to the Classical Era (which is probably part of the reason why the critics didn't appreciate it as much at the time, heh). Anyway, I'm not saying I feel that movies with relatively "heightened" aesthetics are automatically always better than ones with more subdued overall directions, as there are examples of the former that went a bit too crazy with their artistic expression, like Easy Rider (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?7234-Stu-Presents-1967-1980-A-History-Of-New-Hollywood!&p=594352&viewfull=1#post594352) (and even in some of Hitchcock's work, like the Dali sequence in Spellbound​ that I remember feeling gratuitous). But, at the same time, when a movie can successfully marry a more stylish approach with a certain amount of creative discipline, like the sensible flourishes that The Graduate took with its soundtrack, editing, cinematography, etc. to get us deeper inside Benjamin's emotional "headspace", I feel it serves to enhance the base-level emotions in a way you don't find often in the movies of the studio era, which is why I still have a special fondness for the films of the period that immediately followed the Classical Era to this day.For me it's less a matter of "heighted" vs. "subdued" than a question of how purposeful a given film's style is. Whether one prefers Notorious or Vertigo (or Rear Window or Marnie for that matter), Hitchcock's stylistic choices are invariably motivated by the narrative. He would never move his camera simply to give a scene "energy" or frame a shot so as to pay homage to an earlier film. That's not to say Hitchcock didn't have influences, but there's a world of difference between Hitchcock's assimilation of German expressionism and Soviet montage and, for instance, De Palma's mechanical reproduction in The Untouchables of the Odessa Steps sequence in Battleship Potemkin, which is merely an act of theft.

Incidentally, the term "immersive" makes my skin crawl, especially in reference to classical Hollywood cinema, since this wasn't something people were talking about until about twenty years ago circa The Lord of the Rings as video game aesthetics started to infiltrate mainstream filmmaking. In Hitchcock's day (and even into the New Hollywood period), people were more likely to speak of expressiveness than immersion.

[Lazlo]

Goodfellas
Boogie Nights

[StuSmallz]

For me it's less a matter of "heighted" vs. "subdued" than a question of how purposeful a given film's style is. Whether one prefers Notorious or Vertigo (or Rear Window or Marnie for that matter), Hitchcock's stylistic choices are invariably motivated by the narrative. He would never move his camera simply to give a scene "energy" or frame a shot so as to pay homage to an earlier film. That's not to say Hitchcock didn't have influences, but there's a world of difference between Hitchcock's assimilation of German expressionism and Soviet montage and, for instance, De Palma's mechanical reproduction in The Untouchables of the Odessa Steps sequence in Battleship Potemkin, which is merely an act of theft.

Incidentally, the term "immersive" makes my skin crawl, especially in reference to classical Hollywood cinema, since this wasn't something people were talking about until about twenty years ago circa The Lord of the Rings as video game aesthetics started to infiltrate mainstream filmmaking. In Hitchcock's day (and even into the New Hollywood period), people were more likely to speak of expressiveness than immersion.I actually feel the same way you do about movies that feel "pointlessly" stylish, like I mentioned with Easy Rider, or certain De Palma films where he indulged in "over-direction", especially with something like Dressed To Kill (which wasn't a very good movie anyway)​. But, heightened aesthetics in films are still one of those element that vary from being good or bad depending on the individual film, and it's the good examples, the ones that are able to possess a more vivid style, while still retaining a sense of purpose to it, are the ones that I have my special fondness for.

[baby doll]

I actually feel the same way you do about movies that feel "pointlessly" stylish, like I mentioned with Easy Rider, or certain De Palma films where he indulged in "over-direction", especially with something like Dressed To Kill​. But, heightened aesthetics in films are still one of those element that vary from being good or bad depending on the individual film, and it's the good examples, the ones that are able to possess a more vivid style, while still retaining a sense of purpose to it, are the ones that I have my special fondness for.I'm actually not totally sure what you mean by "heightened aesthetics," since anything aesthetic is by definition heightened compared with ordinary perception or else one wouldn't perceive it as aesthetic in the first place. Even in highly realistic films, like those of Naruse Mikio (who largely abandoned subjective camera techniques after the '30s), the settings are simplified and streamlined compared with real life, purifying them of any distracting "noise" that would detract from the narrative. As Dave Kehr observed in a review of Naruse's When a Woman Ascends the Stairs, "It's an irony of the art of movies that, while middle-range directors begin anonymously and develop their expressive quirks over the course of their careers, the greatest filmmakers—Ford, Renoir, Lang, Hawks—begin in a burst of baroque expressionism and gradually narrow their stylistic choices, moving toward simplicity and plainness." Of course, there's a huge difference between the genuine anonymity of any hack director and the elegant simplicity of late Naruse, which betrays infinite care and patience in the staging and framing of each shot.

Regarding De Palma, I would argue that his most interesting and substantial films are precisely those in which the narrative is largely a pretext for his directorial virtuosity: Sisters, Dressed to Kill, Raising Cain, and especially Femme fatale--all of which he wrote himself. It's when he's working with somebody else's material that his style feels inorganic: the ostentatious set pieces in The Untouchables, Carlito's Way, and Mission: Impossible, and the bonkers finale of The Black Dahlia, strike me as strained efforts to elevate lousy scripts by cramming some personality into the margins of the story. (Of the films he didn't write himself, Carrie is the only one I've seen that approaches the level of my four favourites, although I need to take another look at Obsession.)

[Idioteque Stalker]

~12 hrs left.

[Irish]

~12 hrs left.

Am I eligible to vote?

[Idioteque Stalker]

Am I eligible to vote?

Of course! :)

[Irish]

I am offering my vote in exchange for rep.

Are you deeply invested in Boogie Nights or ... whatever the other film is?

Now is your chance to make Match Cut history and see your favorite win the contest!!!!

I will need +2 rep to vote for Boogie Nights OR +4 rep to vote for ... whatever the other film is.

LIMITED TIME OFFER! ACT NOW!



Uh .. Stalker, don't click the spoiler.

[Irish]

Everyone else go ahead and click before noon!!!!

[Irish]

Of my own free will and under absolutely no outside influence, I vote for Pulp Fiction and Fargo.

[Skitch]

Thats steep price, bro. Whats one get me?

[Idioteque Stalker]

Voting is closed. Here are MC's results:

Champion

Goodfellas
Directed by Martin Scorsese
1990

https://filmmakermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Goodfellas-31-1024x576.jpg

Scorsese stated that the film's style comes from the first two or three minutes of Jules and Jim: extensive narration, quick edits, freeze frames, and multiple locale switches. It was this reckless attitude towards convention that mirrored the attitude of many of the gangsters in the film.

The long tracking shot through the Copacabana nightclub came about because of a practical problem: the filmmakers could not get permission to go in the short way, and this forced them to go round the back.

Two weeks in advance of the filming, the real Henry Hill was paid $480,000. Later, Liotta met him in an undisclosed city; Hill had seen the film and told the actor that he loved it.


https://c4.wallpaperflare.com/wallpaper/827/413/230/movie-goodfellas-wallpaper-preview.jpg

More than any earlier Scorsese film, Goodfellas is memorable for the ensemble nature of the performances... The movie has been beautifully cast from the leading roles to the bits. There is flash also in some of Mr. Scorsese's directorial choices, including freeze frames, fast cutting and the occasional long tracking shot. None of it is superfluous. - Vincent Canby

No finer film has ever been made about organized crime – not even The Godfather. - Roger Ebert

In 2012, the Motion Picture Editors Guild listed Goodfellas as the fifteenth best-edited film of all time.


https://brobible.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/goodfellas-dining-room-scene.jpeg


Runner-Up

Pulp Fiction
Directed by Quentin Tarantino
1994

https://eliseabernathy.files.wordpress .com/2013/01/untitled1.png

Tarantino wrote the role of Jules for Laurence Fishburne, who turned it down. According to Tarantino, Fishburne refused it because his team did not see it as a starring role; Fishburne later said he turned it down because he felt the film glamorized heroin.

Tarantino cast Travolta in Pulp Fiction because Michael Madsen, who had played Vic Vega in Reservoir Dogs, chose to appear in Kevin Costner's Wyatt Earp instead. Madsen has since expressed regret over his decision. In 2004, Tarantino discussed an idea for a movie starring Travolta and Madsen as the "Vega Brothers."

Before Pulp Fiction's premiere, Tarantino convinced Roger Avary to forfeit his agreed-on cowriting credit and accept a "story by" credit, so the line "Written and directed by Quentin Tarantino" could be used in advertising and onscreen.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5d/15/ac/5d15ac65c3cf30e8db928db0428f4c 9d.jpg

A triumphant, cleverly disorienting journey through a demimonde that springs entirely from Mr. Tarantino's ripe imagination, a landscape of danger, shock, hilarity and vibrant local color ... [He] has come up with a work of such depth, wit and blazing originality that it places him in the front ranks of American film makers. - Janet Maslin

The violent intensity of Pulp Fiction calls to mind other violent watershed films that were considered classics in their time and still are. Hitchcock's Psycho [1960], Arthur Penn's Bonnie and Clyde [1967], and Stanley Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange [1971]. Each film shook up a tired, bloated movie industry and used a world of lively lowlifes to reflect how dull other movies had become. - Gene Siskel

The way that [it] has been so widely ravened up and drooled over verges on the disgusting. Pulp Fiction nourishes, abets, cultural slumming. - Stanley Kauffmann


https://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Whats-In-the-Briefcase-Pulp-Fiction.png


Third Place

Fargo
Directed by the Coens
1996

https://film-grab.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/182.jpg


The madness is over... or is it?

[Ezee E]

I like the trivia bits on the first two movies, and then.... Fargo.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I like the trivia bits on the first two movies, and then.... Fargo.

Damn, my images didn't upload. Fixed.

[DFA1979]

I did an ok write up about Goodfellas years back for my Top 10. Eh I could do better this time I think. Maybe.

[Dukefrukem]

Goodfellas is excellent in the first half. But the second half drags and drags.

Pulp Fiction is great from start to finish.

[Skitch]

Pulp Ficton is second to Scarface on my most overrated movie ever list. But I guess I'm a rectangle.

[baby doll]

Goodfellas is excellent in the first half. But the second half drags and drags.I must've seen a different movie than you did. Are you sure you're not thinking of Casino?

[Grouchy]

Goodfellas is excellent in the first half. But the second half drags and drags.
Wow, I've never heard anyone say this about Goodfellas. I don't know any other movie that is so compulsively watchable, to be honest.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Bonus Round! Madness 1.0 Champs vs. Madness 2.0 Champs.

Do the Right Thing vs. Goodfellas
The Shining vs. Pulp Fiction
Aliens vs. Fargo
Amadeus vs. Boogie Nights

What appears to be a general dissatisfaction with the 90s results may lead one to think the 80s could sweep, but there's only one way to know for sure. Vote now!

[baby doll]

Do the Right Thing vs. Goodfellas
The Shining vs. Pulp Fiction
Aliens vs. Fargo
Amadeus vs. Boogie Nights

[Idioteque Stalker]

Do the Right Thing vs. Goodfellas (OUCH)
The Shining vs. Pulp Fiction
Aliens vs. Fargo
Amadeus vs. Boogie Nights (yawn)

[Skitch]

Goodfellas
The Shining
Aliens
Amadeus

[Dukefrukem]

Alright alright I went too far with the drags thing.

I just start to lose it around the whole helicopter following bit.

[Mal]

Do the Right Thing vs. Goodfellas
The Shining vs. Pulp Fiction
Aliens vs. Fargo
Amadeus vs. Boogie Nights

[Idioteque Stalker]

I just start to lose it around the whole helicopter following bit.

Best sequence of the movie. Anxiety-inducing, sure, but still. One of Scorsese/Schoonmaker’s greatest creations.

[Ezee E]

The helicopter sequence is one of the sequences that drew me to loving movies. Still holds up for me.