The Book Discussion Thread

[Ezee E]

Have you guys read Foer's other book, "Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close"

or something along those lines as far as the title goes.

I thought it was great.

[megladon8]

Anyone read this book "Just a Couple of Days" by Tony Vigorito (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0156031221/ref=s9sflf_r3_asinmore-rfc_p?pf_rd_m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_s=right-3&pf_rd_r=08TAPD50BTMHT6GBRDV9&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=399890601&pf_rd_i=915398)?

Sounds interesting.

It's described as "A combination of hip philosophy, science fiction, and wordplay that keeps your gray matter busy."

[Ezee E]

The further I get into Shutter Island, the more my fear of a horrible twist ending becomes realized.

[Duncan]

Anyone read this book "Just a Couple of Days" by Tony Vigorito (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0156031221/ref=s9sflf_r3_asinmore-rfc_p?pf_rd_m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_s=right-3&pf_rd_r=08TAPD50BTMHT6GBRDV9&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=399890601&pf_rd_i=915398)?

Sounds interesting.

It's described as "A combination of hip philosophy, science fiction, and wordplay that keeps your gray matter busy." I tend to prefer my philosophy as un-hip as possible.

[Qrazy]

Burned through The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz. Not exactly great literature but very enjoyable and being a Jew living in Montreal a few blocks from where Duddy grows up and going to school where his brother did there was a certain degree of resonance for me, and a sense of kinship with Richler's world. I'd like to read more novels that encapsulate real places and groups of people as effectively. Joyce's short The Dead is another good example or at least I presume it is having not grown up in that world.

[Kurosawa Fan]

So close... sooooo close....

[Winston*]

I gotta say, I'm about 200 pages into IT right now, and King's constant rambling on pointless topics or descriptions has me almost ready to put it away for good.
If you'd stopped here you could've read 3 good novels with that time.

[megladon8]

Burned through The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz. Not exactly great literature but very enjoyable and being a Jew living in Montreal a few blocks from where Duddy grows up and going to school where his brother did there was a certain degree of resonance for me, and a sense of kinship with Richler's world. I'd like to read more novels that encapsulate real places and groups of people as effectively. Joyce's short The Dead is another good example or at least I presume it is having not grown up in that world.


How is it "not great literature"?

It's one of the best books I've read.

[Qrazy]

How is it "not great literature"?

It's one of the best books I've read.

I just mean in comparison to Joyce, Tolstoy, Beckett, Dostoyevsky, Chaucer, Milton etc. It's very good literature but it's not on that level.

[megladon8]

I just mean in comparison to Joyce, Tolstoy, Beckett, Dostoyevsky, Chaucer, Milton etc. It's very good literature but it's not on that level.


Eh I think that's pretty old thinking.

[Qrazy]

Eh I think that's pretty old thinking.

Or it's thinking about form and the literary depths Richler reaches, which aren't that remarkable in my opinion. The writing was good but not top tier, although the story was certainly an engaging one. Beckett and Joyce aren't that old. A few other semi-contemporary authors whose writing I find more remarkable are Faulker, Conrad, Nabokov, Hemingway, Steinbeck, Heller, Orwell, etc.

[megladon8]

Or it's thinking about form and the literary depths Richler reaches, which aren't that remarkable in my opinion. The writing was good but not top tier, although the story was certainly an engaging one. Beckett and Joyce aren't that old. A few other semi-contemporary authors whose writing I find more remarkable are Faulker, Conrad, Nabokov, Hemingway, Steinbeck, Heller, Orwell, etc.


Again, this seems like a very "old" list.

Have you ever read anything from the 1970s onward that you'd consider exemplary?

Modern fiction is way overlooked.

[Qrazy]

Again, this seems like a very "old" list.

Have you ever read anything from the 1970s onward that you'd consider exemplary?

Modern fiction is way overlooked.

We're not talking film history here, 50-60 years is not that long ago in terms of literature. Kravitz was written in 1959. Beckett wrote his trilogy in the early 50's. Steinbeck wrote Cannery Row in '45 and East of Eden in '52. Catch 22 was written in '61. 1984 was written in '48. And most of the other authors I mentioned were putting out major work from the 30's through the 60's. Richler is the next gen from most of those guys but still the majority of his work was put out in the 50's and 60's as well. No I haven't read that much from the 70s onward that I'd consider exemplary (as in pinnacle of the artform... but I haven't seen much from the 80's on that I'd consider the pinnacle of film either) but there are still lots of books out there that I have yet to explore (perhaps Pynchon, Updike, Morrison, McCarthy and others will do it for me).

[Duncan]

Pynchon, Ondaatje, maybe Robertson Davies because I love Fifth Business. Honestly, I think David Berman of the Silver Jews is one of the best writers around. Hmm...that's who comes to mind immediately in terms of personal favourites.

[Duncan]

Others: Coetzee, McEwan, Ishiguro, Rushdie...

Those are names I just picked off the Man Booker Prize list, so obviously it's a limited selection. And I haven't read a book by all those people (just Ishiguro) so I can't really lay a claim to them being deserving or not.

[Duncan]

Oh, Marquez. Of course.


Can you tell I have nothing to do at work today?

[Qrazy]

I've heard good things about Sebald and Primo Levi.

[Kurosawa Fan]

If you'd stopped here you could've read 3 good novels with that time.

I'm actually glad I stuck with it, as this ending is really intense. I'll post my complete thoughts when I finish. I have about 150 pages left. I will say that I'm fully prepared to knock out 4 or 5 really small novels after this one. I have a lineup ready to go.

[Benny Profane]

Pynchon, Ondaatje,

Have you read Divisadero yet?

[Melville]

I'd like to find a contemporary author that I really love, but I haven't been terribly impressed by any post-1960's literature that I've read. Of the authors mentioned in the last few posts, I've read things by Marquez, Coetzee, McEwan, Ishiguro, Rushdie, Davies, Morrison, and McCarthy, and they all felt a bit underwhelming to me, though none of them were bad. Contemporary literature seems to lack a certain feeling of density and seriousness that I like in late 19th/early 20th century literature; the scope of its themes seems lesser, the depth too which it probes them shallower, and its psychological insights narrower. In general, its ambitions just seem smaller.

[Benny Profane]

Though he doesn't write literature, per se, Jon Krakauer is one of my favorite writers. Can't wait for his next book Hero, which is about Pat Tillman.

Michael Lewis (Moneyball, Blind Side, Liar's Poker) falls in the same category.

[Qrazy]

I'm actually glad I stuck with it, as this ending is really intense. I'll post my complete thoughts when I finish. I have about 150 pages left. I will say that I'm fully prepared to knock out 4 or 5 really small novels after this one. I have a lineup ready to go.

Do you agree with my concerning the fright factor of the refrigerator and hotel sequences?

[Qrazy]

I'd like to find a contemporary author that I really love, but I haven't been terribly impressed by any post-1960's literature that I've read. Of the authors mentioned in the last few posts, I've read things by Marquez, Coetzee, McEwan, Ishiguro, Rushdie, Davies, Morrison, and McCarthy, and they all felt a bit underwhelming to me, though none of them were bad. Contemporary literature seems to lack a certain feeling of density and seriousness that I like in late 19th/early 20th century literature; the scope of its themes seems lesser, the depth too which it probes them shallower, and its psychological insights narrower. In general, its ambitions just seem smaller.

This is my feeling also although I have yet to explore the above authors. But I do remain hopeful that perhaps there are some unsung giants lurking in the corners of late century literature waiting to unleash their masterpieces upon the world.

[Duncan]

Have you read Divisadero yet?

Nope. Just In the Skin of a Lion and Anil's Ghost.

[Duncan]

I'd like to find a contemporary author that I really love, but I haven't been terribly impressed by any post-1960's literature that I've read. Of the authors mentioned in the last few posts, I've read things by Marquez, Coetzee, McEwan, Ishiguro, Rushdie, Davies, Morrison, and McCarthy, and they all felt a bit underwhelming to me, though none of them were bad. Contemporary literature seems to lack a certain feeling of density and seriousness that I like in late 19th/early 20th century literature; the scope of its themes seems lesser, the depth too which it probes them shallower, and its psychological insights narrower. In general, its ambitions just seem smaller.

Have you read 100 Years of Solitude? Because I think that's a highly ambitious book. Much more so than Love in the Time of Cholera.

And you should definitely read Gravity's Rainbow. In terms of ambition it's basically unsurpassed.

[Benny Profane]

If we're talking post-1970 era, or close to it, Saul Bellow is quite awesome.

[Melville]

Have you read 100 Years of Solitude? Because I think that's a highly ambitious book. Much more so than Love in the Time of Cholera.

And you should definitely read Gravity's Rainbow. In terms of ambition it's basically unsurpassed.
I read 100 Years of Solitude a few years ago. I can't remember why I found it somewhat lacking; maybe the lack of character depth? Maybe I just didn't understand what was going on with those ants at the end.

I'll definitely read Gravity's Rainbow sometime, though I have a hard time imagining anything being more ambitious than Joyce in terms of style, Dostoevsky in terms of psychological depth and thematic scope, and Melville in terms of awesomeness.

[Benny Profane]

Gravity's Rainbow is like nothing you will ever read. No sense comparing it to anything else.

[Melville]

If we're talking post-1970 era, or close to it, Saul Bellow is quite awesome.
The only thing I've read by him is Henderson the Rain King. I remember it being pretty funny, though somewhat slight, in its first half, but it kind of fell apart in its second half. What would you say is his best novel?

[Benny Profane]

The only thing I've read by him is Henderson the Rain King. I remember it being pretty funny, though somewhat slight, in its first half, but it kind of fell apart in its second half. What would you say is his best novel?

Herzog.

[Milky Joe]

I'd like to find a contemporary author that I really love, but I haven't been terribly impressed by any post-1960's literature that I've read. Of the authors mentioned in the last few posts, I've read things by Marquez, Coetzee, McEwan, Ishiguro, Rushdie, Davies, Morrison, and McCarthy, and they all felt a bit underwhelming to me, though none of them were bad. Contemporary literature seems to lack a certain feeling of density and seriousness that I like in late 19th/early 20th century literature; the scope of its themes seems lesser, the depth too which it probes them shallower, and its psychological insights narrower. In general, its ambitions just seem smaller.

David Foster Wallace. Read Infinite Jest.

[Lasse]

I borrowed Orwell's 1984 from a friend. Is it a masterpiece? I always get a little sceptical when people tell me that I need to read this fucking masterpiece.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Do you agree with my concerning the fright factor of the refrigerator and hotel sequences?

Definitely the fridge. That was terrifying. Easily the best part of the book. The hotel was less impressive, but still good.


I'd like to find a contemporary author that I really love, but I haven't been terribly impressed by any post-1960's literature that I've read. Of the authors mentioned in the last few posts, I've read things by Marquez, Coetzee, McEwan, Ishiguro, Rushdie, Davies, Morrison, and McCarthy, and they all felt a bit underwhelming to me, though none of them were bad. Contemporary literature seems to lack a certain feeling of density and seriousness that I like in late 19th/early 20th century literature; the scope of its themes seems lesser, the depth too which it probes them shallower, and its psychological insights narrower. In general, its ambitions just seem smaller.

Try The Zero by Jess Walter.

[Qrazy]

I borrowed Orwell's 1984 from a friend. Is it a masterpiece? I always get a little sceptical when people tell me that I need to read this fucking masterpiece.

It's pretty essential stuff. It's definitely a book that when I read it growing up it changed the way I looked at the world and the social systems around me.

[megladon8]

Some contemporary masterpieces...

"Atonement" by Ian McEwan
"A Confederacy of Dunces" by John Kennedy Tool
"Cat's Cradle" by Kurt Vonnegut
"I Am Legend" by Richard Matheson
"Salem's Lot" by Stephen King
"Sputnik Sweetheart" by Haruki Murakami
"The Giver" by Lois Lowry
The New York Trilogy by Paul Auster
"A Fine Balance" by Rohinton Mistry
"Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card

[thefourthwall]

Contemporary awesome awesome writers not yet mentioned?

A.S. Byatt (Possession)
Peter Carey (Jack Maggs)
David Lodge (Thinks...)
Zadie Smith (White Teeth)

[thefourthwall]

Oh, and

Julian Barnes (Flaubert's Parrot)

[Qrazy]

"The Giver" by Lois Lowry
"Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card

I've only read these but wouldn't call either a masterpiece.

[megladon8]

I've only read these but wouldn't call either a masterpiece.


I would.

[ledfloyd]

Some contemporary masterpieces...

"Atonement" by Ian McEwan
"A Confederacy of Dunces" by John Kennedy Tool
"Cat's Cradle" by Kurt Vonnegut
"I Am Legend" by Richard Matheson
"Salem's Lot" by Stephen King
"Sputnik Sweetheart" by Haruki Murakami
"The Giver" by Lois Lowry
The New York Trilogy by Paul Auster
"A Fine Balance" by Rohinton Mistry
"Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card
i agree with the first three. read but didn't care for the next two.

haven't read the rest with the exception of the new york trilogy which is freaking amazing. particularly the first one.

[megladon8]

i agree with the first three. read but didn't care for the next two.

haven't read the rest with the exception of the new york trilogy which is freaking amazing. particularly the first one.


Indeed. "City of Glass" was one of the very best books I read last year.

Actually last year was probably my best year of reading ever.

[Melville]

Herzog.
I used to own that. I'm not sure what happened to my copy.


David Foster Wallace. Read Infinite Jest.
I read a speech he gave at a college graduation ceremony. It was really good. But 1000+ pages? That's a lot of words. Maybe I'm just too lazy to read the modern masterpieces.


Try The Zero by Jess Walter.
I just read a synopsis. It definitely sounds promising.


Some contemporary masterpieces...

"Atonement" by Ian McEwan
"A Confederacy of Dunces" by John Kennedy Tool
"Cat's Cradle" by Kurt Vonnegut
"I Am Legend" by Richard Matheson
"Salem's Lot" by Stephen King
"Sputnik Sweetheart" by Haruki Murakami
"The Giver" by Lois Lowry
The New York Trilogy by Paul Auster
"A Fine Balance" by Rohinton Mistry
"Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card
I've read Atonement, City of Glass, and Ender's Game. I definitely wouldn't call any of them a masterpiece. I liked City of Glass and Ender's Game well enough, but the former was basically just a postmodern play with old philosophical ideas and literary archetypes (and I prefer the comic adaptation), and the latter was basically just an entertaining little story, with a completely unremarkable style and nothing much to think about. I didn't care for Atonement at all.

I've read a few books by Vonnegut (Player Piano, Breakfast of Champions, and Slaughterhouse Five), all of which struck me as being extremely shallow. The one book I read by King (The Shining) was so shoddily written that I have no interest in checking out anything else by him.



A.S. Byatt (Possession)

I have a copy of that, so I'll probably read it sometime.

[Qrazy]

I used to own that. I'm not sure what happened to my copy.


I read a speech he gave at a college graduation ceremony. It was really good. But 1000+ pages? That's a lot of words. Maybe I'm just too lazy to read the modern masterpieces.


I just read a synopsis. It definitely sounds promising.


I've read Atonement, City of Glass, and Ender's Game. I definitely wouldn't call any of them a masterpiece. I liked City of Glass and Ender's Game well enough, but the former was basically just a postmodern play with old philosophical ideas and literary archetypes (and I prefer the comic adaptation), and the latter was basically just an entertaining little story, with a completely unremarkable style and nothing much to think about. I didn't care for Atonement at all.

I've read a few books by Vonnegut (Player Piano, Breakfast of Champions, and Slaughterhouse Five), all of which struck me as being extremely shallow. The one book I read by King (The Shining) was so shoddily written that I have no interest in checking out anything else by him.


I have a copy of that, so I'll probably read it sometime.

I was also really let down by Slaughterhouse Five (I assume you were?). I'm drawn to the idea of purely mental time travel but aside from that it's just so metaphysically assumptive concerning the nature of free will and causality that I could never really get on board. And outside of those central ideas the plot and characterizations really just seemed like window dressing. I sort of have similar problems with A Clockwork Orange but at least there Burgess manipulation of language keeps things engaging. On the plus side in both cases I did find that the authors had a good sense of humor.

[Milky Joe]

I read a speech he gave at a college graduation ceremony. It was really good. But 1000+ pages? That's a lot of words. Maybe I'm just too lazy to read the modern masterpieces.

It's definitely requires a serious commitment. I read it off and on for a year before I finished it. It's so worth it though. And it's totally in the vein of Joyce, full of recursive literary puzzles and such, and with more than a few allusions/debts to Ulysses. I consider DFW to be the closest thing we've had or will have to a modern version of Joyce, and IJ is a book that will last.

I also highly recommend Robert Bolaño's last, latest book 2666 as a great piece of literature. I'm only 150 pages in (of 900--maybe I'm just predisposed to huge novels) but it's truly fantastic.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Woah, woah, woah Melville, you haven't read Confederacy of Dunces? You must. Seriously.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Woah, woah, woah Melville, you haven't read Confederacy of Dunces? You must. Seriously.

Absolutely. In my top five novels. I was laughing hysterically throughout.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished. Thoughts to come at some point. Last 100 pages were very underwhelming. What a drag.

[Qrazy]

The best parts of It are when they're kids. I had little patience for anything else.

[Kurosawa Fan]

The best parts of It are when they're kids. I had little patience for anything else.

Absolutely. I said the same thing a while back in this thread. The only part I didn't care for at all was how the kids got out of the sewers, with Bev helping them. Seemed like King was sitting at his typewriter thinking, "This is really edgy. This will definitely fuck with people!"

[Kurosawa Fan]

Decided to go with The Death of Ivan Ilyich next. Nice and small.

[ledfloyd]

i got The World Without Us. Joshua Ferris' Then We Came To The End. Ian McEwan's On Chesil Beach. and Guns Germs and Steel at the library today.

[Winston*]

Read The Cement Garden today. Pretty good, probably the least of the McEwans I've read. It's kind of like Nobody Knows except with less Japanese social critique and more wanting to fuck your sister.

[Benny Profane]

Decided to go with The Death of Ivan Ilyich next. Nice and small.

Masterpiece.

[Ezee E]

Benny and K-Fan just need to get it on so they can get that in their past. :)

[Kurosawa Fan]

Benny and K-Fan just need to get it on so they can get that in their past. :)

Don't assume we haven't already.

[megladon8]

KF - I haven't read "It" yet, it's actually one of the few King novels I've yet to read. But I get the impression it's very love it/hate it - some people thing it's the scariest thing ever, others think it's middle-to-lower tier King.

Have you read "'Salem's Lot"? That book is incredible. One of the finet examples of horror literature ever, and as is usual with King, a great allegory - this time for the innocence and honesty of youth.


And I hope I'm not the only one here who thinks there have been some book post-1970 that are just as masterful and essential as stuff by Dostoyevsky, Dickens, etc. I think limiting one's view of "brilliant literature" to this classical era is, well, very limiting.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Loved 'Salem's Lot. In fact, when we did the Match Cut top twenty-five books or whatever it was, I'm pretty sure I listed it. It was crap. The more I think about it, the more upset I am with myself for wasting so much time reading it instead of moving on to something else (yes Winston*, you were right).

[Ezee E]

I need to figure out what I'll be reading next. Any suggestions?

[Kurosawa Fan]

I need to figure out what I'll be reading next. Any suggestions?

The Zero by Jess Walter. Do it.

[Melville]

I was also really let down by Slaughterhouse Five (I assume you were?). I'm drawn to the idea of purely mental time travel but aside from that it's just so metaphysically assumptive concerning the nature of free will and causality that I could never really get on board. And outside of those central ideas the plot and characterizations really just seemed like window dressing. I sort of have similar problems with A Clockwork Orange but at least there Burgess manipulation of language keeps things engaging. On the plus side in both cases I did find that the authors had a good sense of humor.
I don't remember much about Slaughterhouse Five, but I recall it generally being too much silliness, not enough pointedness. The Vonnegut novel I read most recently, Breakfast of Champions, was really irritating. Its central idea is that the world is just too damn complicated to make sense of, so one may as well talk randomly about penis size. While that is a reasonable conclusion, Vonnegut didn't really seem to put all that much effort into making sense of things before giving up and moving onto penises.


Woah, woah, woah Melville, you haven't read Confederacy of Dunces? You must. Seriously.
Yet another book that I own but haven't read.

[Raiders]

After reading the last couple pages, I've decided I will never enter into a book club with Melville.

[Melville]

After reading the last couple pages, I've decided I will never enter into a book club with Melville.
I'm sure my combination of negativity and dismissiveness would eventually win you over.

[Milky Joe]

Seriously Mel, I insist that you read Infinite Jest at some point. To someone as well-read as yourself it will not be that much of an undertaking, especially if you read it carefully (and if it is an undertaking, it's one you'll enjoy immensely, like reading Joyce or Beckett or Proust or something). I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

And hey, I'm taking a class devoted to your namesake next term! Looking forward to it.

[Malickfan]

After reading the last couple pages, I've decided I will never enter into a book club with Melville.

Yeah. Melville is the Baby Doll of books.

[thefourthwall]

i got The World Without Us. Joshua Ferris' Then We Came To The End. Ian McEwan's On Chesil Beach. and Guns Germs and Steel at the library today.

I really, really liked On Chesil Beach (although I'll admit I listened to it rather than reading it--do people think that makes a difference?), and have been intrigued to read Anne Enright's The Gathering since she beat McEwan for the 2007 Booker--I can't believe there was a better book that year.


Read The Cement Garden today.

I like that he still writes books that can be read in a day.

[thefourthwall]

I recently finished reading Tom Sharpe's Porterhouse Blue and found it to be rather clever and vastly amusing. Does anyone else read academic fiction? (David Lodge, Malcolm Bradbury, Kingsley Amis's Lucky Jim, Zadie Smith's On Beauty, Jane Smiley's Moo, etc.) I wonder if I love them just because I'm a career academic or if everyone finds them as entertaining as I do.

[ledfloyd]

On Beauty is one of the best books i've read this year and i have no experience in that area.

[ledfloyd]

Also to respond to meg. I think there have been some masterpieces written since the 60s, however, I don't think any of them quite stand up to Dostoevsky, but really, what does?

Without putting too much thought into it:
Infinite Jest - David Foster Wallace
Underworld - Don DeLillo
Love in the Time of Cholera - Gabriel Garcia Marquez
A Confederacy of Dunces - John Kennedy Toole
The Rabbit Angstrom Novels - John Updike
also a few books by Vonnegut and Tom Robbins I'm sure Melville has no use for.

if short stories count add The Stories of John Cheever and everything by Raymond Carver


and some of my favorites of this decade

The Adventures of Kavalier and Clay
House of Leaves
The Corrections
Cloud Atlas
The Road
The Fortress of Solitude
Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close
Atonement

[megladon8]

"The Road" could hold its own very competently next to anything ever written.

[Melville]

To someone as well-read as yourself it will not be that much of an undertaking, especially if you read it carefully.
I'm a really slow reader.


Yeah. Melville is the Baby Doll of books.
Ouch. Baby Doll dismisses filmmakers, genres, and entire nations' cinematic output based on small or nonexistent samplings from them, and he is ridiculously reductive. I'm just dismissing books I've read and felt somewhat unimpressed by, and other than Breakfast of Champions, which I think deserves it, I don't think I've been reductive about any of them. Other than those by King and Vonnegut, I actually liked every book I've mentioned. Gabriel Garcia Marquez and Cormac McCarthy, in particular, are terrific stylists. I just haven't found a contemporary book that I've really loved.

[Duncan]

Yeah. Melville is the Baby Doll of books.

Ouch.

[Melville]

Ouch.

Ouch.
:lol:

[Malickfan]

Ouch. Baby Doll dismisses filmmakers, genres, and entire nations' cinematic output based on small or nonexistent samplings from them, and he is ridiculously reductive. I'm just dismissing books I've read and felt somewhat unimpressed by, and other than Breakfast of Champions, which I think deserves it, I don't think I've been reductive about any of them. Other than those by King and Vonnegut, I actually liked every book I've mentioned. Gabriel Garcia Marquez and Cormac McCarthy, in particular, are terrific stylists. I just haven't found a contemporary book that I've really loved.

I was just giving you shit Melville.

[Melville]

I was just giving you shit Melville.
Don't mess with me like that. I'm very fragile.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Books post-1960 that I've loved:

Blankets - Craig Thompson
Slaughterhouse-Five - Vonnegut
Catch-22 - Heller
A Confederacy of Dunces - Toole
Ham on Rye - Bukowski
The Bell Jar - Plath
Chronicle of a Death Foretold - Marquez
The Road - McCarthy
Life of Pi - Martel
The Zero - Jess Walter
'Salem's Lot - King
The Tenth Man - Graham Greene
The New York Trilogy - Auster

There have probably been a few others, but those are the first that come to mind.

[Melville]

Catch-22 - Heller
Now that I'll agree with. Funniest thing I've ever read.

Edit: also, it probably has the most deliriously uplifiting ending that I can think of, and the scene that explicates the central "thesis," with Snowden's guts pouring out, was powerful stuff.

[Qrazy]

Not really important but Meg said post 70's guys.

[Melville]

Not really important but Meg said post 70's guys.
Oh yeah. Now it makes sense that I didn't think of Catch-22.

[Qrazy]

Oh yeah. Now it makes sense that I didn't think of Catch-22.

But yeah I agree with both of you that it's great. I mentioned it in my initial better than Duddy Kravitz list.

So what are peoples thoughts on Life of Pi? This is another one of those contemporary novels where I really enjoyed the story but found it to be a bit too thematically light.

[Benny Profane]

Mason & Dixon (1997) -- Pynchon

An all-time top-tenner for me.

[Qrazy]

So has anyone read any Sebald or Primo Levi?

[Duncan]

Life of Pi sux.

Mason & Dixon is one of the all time greats.

[Raiders]

I need to actually read a Pynchon book. I think I'll start with V. or Gravity's Rainbow.

[Qrazy]

I need to actually read a Pynchon book. I think I'll start with V. or Gravity's Rainbow.

I think I'm starting with Gravity's Rainbow. I should really read it over Christmas.

[megladon8]

I started with "The Crying of Lot 49", as recommended by Benny.

From what I've read, it's definitely the best place to start with Pynchon. Gives a good introduction to his dense style.

And make sure to use this as you read. (http://www.pynchonwiki.com/) Again, thanks to Benny for this.

I would read each chapter three times. Once un-aided. Once reading along with the notations on this site. Then once again un-aided, but knowing what I know from the notations.

It's a very rewarding reading experience.

[Kurosawa Fan]

The Crying of Lot 49 is on my list of short books to tackle in the upcoming weeks.

[Duncan]

Finished Everything is Illuminated. It's a difficult book to judge. Uneven for sure. Some parts are genuinely hilarious. Some parts are genuinely sad. But then again, it's about the Holocaust. It's pretty loaded material. The fanciful history of a fictional Ukranian shtetl is probably the book's weakest part. I don't think the ridiculousness of it really jives with the rest of the book. On the other hand, the sections narrated by Alex are superb. I think, perhaps, there are mistakes made by a youthful author. However, I really respect it for being such a youthful book and taking a lot of chances. You can feel the difference between the anger of a Jew in their twenties writing about the Holocaust and the anger felt by someone who might be in their sixties. Same with the sense of humor. Maybe that's why the reviews on first publication were so generous. It does feel like something different, but that may be only because the author was so young. Anyway, I'd recommend it. I think it's an interesting book. But don't expect a masterpiece.


Also read David Berman's book of poetry titled Actual Air. The guy's music kinda carried me through sophmore year. I think he captures the sadness and humour of the everyday better than almost any author I know. I love his work.

[Duncan]

Oh, also read the first 70 pages of Dostoevsky's The Idiot yesterday. It's wicked good so far.


Regarding Pynchon, I'd jump right in with Gravity's Rainbow. V. works too, but I think it's a bit of a dry run for GR. I haven't read The Crying of Lot 49, but I hear Pynchon considers it his least book by a significant margin.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Wow. Just finished The Death of Ivan Ilyich. Incredible. For the first two chapters I was wondering what was so special, as it went through his achievements in a very simple fashion, but it was easy to see that purpose as the book slowly made its way to Ivan's despair. What an emotional impact for such a short story. It's a terrifying reminder of just how alone the act of dying is for a person. It made me want to blow off work and go home and play in the snow with my kids. Masterpiece is not too strong a word for that book.

[Benny Profane]

New Pynchon Book Due Next Summer (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2008/11/thomas-pynchons.html)


This is news that pleases me a ridiculous amount, though the plot reminds me a lot more of Crying and Vineland than his 4 "bigger" works.

[Benny Profane]

Oh, also read the first 70 pages of Dostoevsky's The Idiot yesterday. It's wicked good so far.


Regarding Pynchon, I'd jump right in with Gravity's Rainbow. V. works too, but I think it's a bit of a dry run for GR. I haven't read The Crying of Lot 49, but I hear Pynchon considers it his least book by a significant margin.

This is true. As for which novel to start out with, I think it depends. If you are really intimidated by complex literature, then Crying would be best. I started with V., and I'm glad I did, because I think from there to GR to M&D, there have been noticeable similarities and I can really see his progression as a writer. I haven't read Against the Day, but considering that M&D was about a line being drawn westward (i.e. with the day), AtD might expand on that in the opposite direction.

[megladon8]

I've started reading "Vineland".

It's hilariously quirky. I'm already in love with Zoyd.

[Raiders]

I bought V. yesterday. Will start once I'm done with my current book (collection), David Sedaris' Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim.

[Kurosawa Fan]

All this Pynchon talk means I'm going to read The Crying of Lot 49 next. I'll probably start it tonight.

[Ezee E]

I wised up today and instead of buying books, I'll just get them from the library. What a concept!

And I took up K-Fan on his recommendation, starting with The Zero.

[Winston*]

I wised up today and instead of buying books, I'll just get them from the library. What a concept!

Borders keeps sending me 40-50% off vouchers in my email, which makes me feel like I have to buy books. Those fuckers.

[Kurosawa Fan]

And I took up K-Fan on his recommendation, starting with The Zero.

Awesome. You won't be disappointed.

I read the first chapter of Lot 49. Intoxicating stuff. Can't wait to read more after the kids go to bed.

[megladon8]

If "The Crying of Lot 49" is his weakest work by far, then I expect to have my mind and soul irreparably ravaged by his other works, because "Lot 49" is one of the most amazing reading experiences I've ever had.

[D_Davis]

Here is a pretty cool interview with Stephen King, talking about the 30th Anniversary of 'The Stand', religion, politics, and stuff.

http://www.salon.com/books/int/2008/10/23/stephen_king/index.html

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished The Crying of Lot 49 last night. First, the good. Or should I say, the wonderful. Pynchon as a writer. There were several passages, two of which I'm going to post in the Quote Thread, that literally made me swoon. I had to read them aloud to my wife. Truly incredible stuff.

Not only that, but the depth of such a small novel is staggering. On the surface, it seems to be mostly about paranoia and identity, but what really struck me about it was how it questioned reality. Do the things that happen to us on a daily basis really happen if no one remembers it? Is it even important? So much of what occurs in our lives leaves no imprint, and will never be considered again. I don't know, I'm still thinking it over, and as I mull it over, I'm finding new things that strike me about it.

Now the bad. Or, just not as good. Despite its short length, a couple sections left me cold. One in particular was the very detailed narration of the Wharfinger play they watch. That could have been wrapped up much quicker, especially considering they only focus on that one particular line afterward. Also, in the last chapter, I was losing interest in the history of Tristero.

Still, the book was very good, and the next trip to Barnes and Noble will certainly have me walking away with V.


Next up, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum, which I picked up from the library yesterday.

[dreamdead]

The last several pages of Lot 49, where Pynchon meditates on the interconnectedness of the people, power lines, and the city is haunting. Among the best prose that I've ever read.

That said, I agree about the play's length. That part feels a bit too self-contained to work entirely as it's structured here.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Thoroughly disappointed by the writing in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Baum was as boring as boring gets. Finished it tonight and am happy to be moving on, though I will say that I'm now even more excited for Boorman's film. The story is infinitely better than the musical version.

[Mara]

Thoroughly disappointed by the writing in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz.

Really? Maybe I should go back and check it out-- I remember really enjoying the book and a few of the sequels.

[Ezee E]

I can't read as fast as K-Fan, but The Zero is pretty damn good in its first 50 pages.

[Raiders]

Thoroughly disappointed by the writing in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Baum was as boring as boring gets. Finished it tonight and am happy to be moving on, though I will say that I'm now even more excited for Boorman's film. The story is infinitely better than the musical version.

Wow. That was fast. I kind of agree; it's certainly the narrative and not the language that make it so memorable.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Well, it is a children's book that has 158 pages, with probably 40% of the space occupied by illustrations. But here's an example of an action sequence from the book (it's not verbatim, and obviously this doesn't really happen in the book, but I'm trying to avoid spoilers for those who haven't read it):

"The Scarecrow became angry at the Tin Woodsman and ran at him. The Tin Woodsman swung his axe and chopped off the Scarecrow's head.

They continued down the road of yellow bricks..."

Literally some of the most boring language, with barely an extra moment on describing the action. Any descriptions are reserved for the cities and people.

[D_Davis]

It's a case of story over prose and style, which can be okay sometimes.

I am feeling a bit of this in A Wizard of Earthsea, but Le Guin peppers the book with some wonderful phrasing and style often enough to know that the simplistic nature of the prose was a conscious one, and not a symptom of poor writing.

[Qrazy]

It's a case of story over prose and style, which can be okay sometimes.

I am feeling a bit of this in A Wizard of Earthsea, but Le Guin peppers the book with some wonderful phrasing and style often enough to know that the simplistic nature of the prose was a conscious one, and not a symptom of poor writing.

The first is really the only one particularly worth reading I found. The second is boring as all hell. The third is a slight improvement on the second.

[D_Davis]

The first is really the only one particularly worth reading I found. The second is boring as all hell. The third is a slight improvement on the second.

I've heard this same thing for each volume of the series from as many different people.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I've decided to round out my incredibly short novels/novellas run with Daisy Miller by Henry James.

[D_Davis]

I really like Daisy Miller.

I love novellas, novelettes, and short novels.

[megladon8]

It's a case of story over prose and style, which can be okay sometimes.

I am feeling a bit of this in A Wizard of Earthsea, but Le Guin peppers the book with some wonderful phrasing and style often enough to know that the simplistic nature of the prose was a conscious one, and not a symptom of poor writing.


Another by Le Guin you should check out is called "The Word for World is Forest".

A great little novel. I think you'd dig it.

[D_Davis]

Another by Le Guin you should check out is called "The Word for World is Forest".

A great little novel. I think you'd dig it.

Cool. Never heard of that one. Going to the bookstore today, I'll pick it up if they have it.

[D_Davis]

I just ordered The Word for World is Forest.

Thanks for the rec.

[Ezee E]

I read more Zero at work... He just met "The Boss," and I must read more. Stupid work.

::worker walks by::

"Uh..."

[jamaul]

Holy crap, I'm happy to see some discussion about Pynchon on these boards. I read Gravity's Rainbow in July or August . . . finished it in three weeks. I was obsessed with the novel: the poignancy, the humor, the satire, the characters, the various settings, various prose styles, the scope and the all encompassing narrative. It's one of the 20th Century's finest achievments, and may actually be my second favorite novel after Ulysses.

That said, I started reading The Crying of Lot 49 on Monday after finishing my Beckett-obsessed frenzy that lasted for two months or so. I finished it on Tuesday and I'm convinced that, were it a film (and I think it would work outstandingly as one) it very well could have been the greatest film of 1966 and one of the best films of the 60's (the greatest decade for film, imo). The work knocked me flat. I've since begun Sartre's Nausea, but I'm having a hard time getting into it. I want to read more Pynchon . . . Next I'm going to read V., and keep it in chronological order with Vineland. I can't friggin' wait to read Mason&Dixon, and Against the Day, every time I see it at Borders, just frightens me . . . in a good way.

The news that he is releasing a new novel next year makes me want to read all of his work before then.

[Qrazy]

I quite like LeGuin short story The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas.

[Mara]

I quite like LeGuin short story The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas.

I like it, but I always felt uncomfortable calling it a short story. A discourse, maybe. Or an exercise.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished Daisy Miller. A very good story that's harmed by an ending wrapped up too quickly. Still, I quite liked it. I'd like to read more by James. His prose was quite nice, staying on the good side of flowery.

I'll be reading Good-bye by Yoshihiro Tatsumi next, but I can't pick it up until Monday because I work tomorrow. Bummer.

[Ezee E]

Finished Daisy Miller. A very good story that's harmed by an ending wrapped up too quickly. Still, I quite liked it. I'd like to read more by James. His prose was quite nice, staying on the good side of flowery.

I'll be reading Good-bye by Yoshihiro Tatsumi next, but I can't pick it up until Monday because I work tomorrow. Bummer.
This gives me time to catch up.

December:
K-Fan 5
E 1

Hmm... I don't think the tortoise approach will win this race.

Heh.

[Raiders]

Yeah, I don't read half as much as some people here. I still haven't even started V. yet.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Guys, Daisy Miller was literally 69 pages. I don't really read that much or that fast. My recent history is deceiving. It took me nearly a month to finish It. I've just been reading incredibly small novels since I finished it. The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, children's story; The Crying of Lot 49, 152 pages; The 13 Clocks, children's story, 123 pages; The Death of Ivan Ilyich, 99 pages. Please don't give me more credit than I deserve.

[D_Davis]

As mentioned in the horror thread, I started reading David Morrell's The Totem tonight.

In doing a bit of research, I discovered this interesting interview.

http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue453/interview.html

I like this part:



You mention that Edgar Allan Poe expressed concern about his readers' attention span, and you say that, when you were writing The Brotherhood of the Rose, you decided that 50 pages an hour was about right for the average reader ... with "breaks" within that. Do you still feel that that page amount is "about right" for the reader of today?


Morrell: That is what I did in Creepers. It's 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock, midnight and so on. Each chunk of manuscript ran about 50 to 60 pages. I believe the task for a novelist is how to account for retaining the reader's attention span in a world where there are too many interruptions.
Poe thought one hour was the most you could count on. That's probably not it these days, probably more like a half an hour or 15 minutes. I still rely on the one hour as do-able. It gives me room, at least. I tend to write in arcs for readers—where they can go with me for an hour, and I signal it is clearly time to stop. I don't want people starting a new section, then getting in a situation where they get tired and they lose the forward momentum. On the structure, I am very, very careful how I manipulate the reader's attention.


I am really liking Morrell's writing. I've wanted to read First Blood for years, but I've never gotten around to it. I think I am going to check out more of his stuff.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Well, since I can't pick up my book from the library until tomorrow, I decided to read Our Town by Wilder. Finished Act One today at work. Very intriguing start.

[Malickfan]

I thought Our Town was incredibly boring.

As for me, I'm continuing the trend and reading The Crying of Lot 49.

[Duncan]

I'm halfway through The Idiot, and about two thirds of the way through Arthur Rimbaud Complete. Enoying them both.

[Benny Profane]

I read a great book called In the Heart of the Sea, which documented the tragedy of the whaleship Essex in the 1820s, a Nantucket boat that was sunk by a sperm whale in the Pacific whose crew members had to survive a long journey in open boats, feeding off nothing but a little bread, and eventually each other. This the story that inspired Melville to write Moby Dick, and it was truly engaging and fascinating. An unbelievable ordeal.

Any fan of Moby Dick (Melville) would love this book if they haven't gotten to it already. Any one who loves a well-written survival story would love it as well.

Now reading American Lightning, which is a true crime piece about the labor movement blowing up buildings across the U.S. in the early 20th century. D.W. Griffith actually factors heavily into the narrative, for those movie fans out there.

[Hugh_Grant]

I just re-read Death of a Salesman for the umpteenth time--it's a staple of my syllabus--and damnit, that play tears me up everytime.

[Benny Profane]

I just re-read Death of a Salesman for the umpteenth time--it's a staple of my syllabus--and damnit, that play tears me up everytime.

It really is great. As an aside, one of Dustin Hoffman's best roles. You still teach college?

[Hugh_Grant]

It really is great. As an aside, one of Dustin Hoffman's best roles. You still teach college?
I still teach college, and long ago, I used to not teach DoaS because I assumed the students had all read it in high school. Wrong.

Funny you mentioned Hoffman because I showed that filmed version this semester for the first time. John Malkovich, who has never been a favorite of mine, was fantastic as Biff. The "I'm not the leader of men" scene near of end of Act II was a master class in acting.

[Benny Profane]

I still teach college, and long ago, I used to not teach DoaS because I assumed the students had all read it in high school. Wrong.



Yeah, that's why I asked. I think I read it as a junior in HS.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Our Town was very good. Maybe too much "folksy" charm for its own good, but I found it rather affecting. I'm a sucker for a good rumination on death, and I liked the angle of the third act being from the point of view of the deceased, while remaining ambiguous about what comes after death. A very nice, very quick read.

On to Good-bye by Yoshihiro Tatsumi

[Raiders]

Please don't give me more credit than I deserve.

...


Well, since I can't pick up my book from the library until tomorrow, I decided to read Our Town by Wilder. Finished Act One today at work. Very intriguing start.

24 hours later...


Our Town was very good. Maybe too much "folksy" charm for its own good, but I found it rather affecting. I'm a sucker for a good rumination on death, and I liked the angle of the third act being from the point of view of the deceased, while remaining ambiguous about what comes after death. A very nice, very quick read.

You machine, you.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Guess what. I already finished Good-bye. Wasn't very good. Way to nihilistic for me.

[D_Davis]

Like K-fan, this year has been a very prolific reading year for me. I should finish up December with around 80+ books read in 2008. Of course they weren't heavy-hitting lit books (at least not many), and some were novellas, but this is by far the most I've ever read in a single year.

It's been fantastic, and I hope the trend continues in 2009.

I started off 2008 tackling the Hugo winners, and it led me to some new and exciting authors and places.

It looks like 2009 will kick off with the focus on more mythos fiction, along with a more detailed look at the early 1900's weird fiction.

[D_Davis]

Read in 2008 (plus a few read in November-December 2007):

A Wizard of Earthsea (Earthsea Trilogy, Book One)
The San Veneficio Canon (Hardcover)
A Choice of Gods (hardcover)
Prime Evil: New Stories by the Masters of Modern Horror (Paperback)
Adrift on The Haunted Seas: The Best Short Stories of William Hope Hodgson (Paperback)
The King in Yellow and Other Horror Stories (Dover Mystery, Detective, & Other Fiction)
My Work Is Not Yet Done: Three Tales of Corporate Horror (Hardcover)
The Divinity Student (Buzzcity Press First Editions)
Alone with the Horrors: The Great Short Fiction of Ramsey Campbell 1961--1991 (Hardcover)
The Number 121 to Pennsylvania & Others (Hardcover)
Narrative of the Life of Henry Box Brown (Hardcover)
Dark Gods (Mass Market Paperback)
Teatro Grottesco (Hardcover)
Forever Peace (Remembering Tomorrow)
Reassuring Tales (Hardcover)
Light (Paperback)
Ship of Fools (Paperback)
John Goldfarb, Please Come Home (Paperback)
I'll Tell Them I Remember You (Hardcover)
Now Wait for Last Year (Paperback)
Secret Hours (Paperback)
The Atrocity Exhibition (Flamingo Modern Classics)
Carlucci 3-in1 (Paperback)
The Goblin Reservation (Paperback)
City Come A-Walkin' (Paperback)
The Crystal World (Paperback)
999: Twenty-nine Original Tales of Horror and Suspense (Paperback)
Running Wild (Paperback)
Deliverance (Paperback)
The Dreaming Jewels (Paperback)
The Drive-In: A Double-Feature Omnibus (Mass Market Paperback)
War Fever (Hardcover)
Red Harvest (Paperback)
Islands in the Sky (Paperback)
Our Friends from Frolix 8 (Paperback)
Eye in the Sky (Paperback)
The Unreasoning Mask (Hardcover)
The Book of Skulls (Paperback)
Last Dragon (Paperback)
Short drive, sweet chariot (Paperback)
Legion (Hardcover)
The Exorcist (Mass Market Paperback)
ORPHAN (Paperback)
Cosmicomics (Paperback)
Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang (Hardcover)
Odd John and Sirius (Paperback)
Invasion of the Body Snatchers (Paperback)
Venus Plus X (Paperback)
Noctuary (Paperback)
Lost Echoes (Paperback)
Ninth Configuration (Paperback)
Hemingway Hoax (Paperback)
Dr. Bloodmoney (Paperback)
Sharp Teeth (Hardcover)
Cemetery World (Hardcover)
Master Of Space And Time (Paperback)
Solaris (Gebundene Ausgabe)
Enemy Stars (Paperback)
The Cosmic Puppets (Paperback)
City (Hardcover)
Dark Harvest (Paperback)
The Stars My Destination (Paperback)
Starshine (Paperback)
The Iron Dragon's Daughter (Hardcover)
Godbody (Signet)
I Am Legend (Paperback)
The Ugly Little Boy and The Widget, The Wadget, and Boff (Tor Double)
Mindbridge (Gollancz SF Collector's Edition)
Some of Your Blood (Paperback)
Case and the Dreamer (Paperback)
Double Star (Mass Market Paperback)
Way Station (Hardcover)
To Marry Medusa (Paperback)
The Lathe of Heaven (Paperback)
To Your Scattered Bodies Go (Riverworld Saga, Book 1)
Deathworld (Paperback)
Gateway (Heechee Saga 1)
Solar Lottery: A Novel (Paperback)

[Winston*]

I am Legend (Matheson)
Post Office (Bukowski)
As I Lay Dying (Faulkner)
The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle (H. Murakami)
A Game of Thrones (Martin)
The Stars My Destination (Bester)
A Clash of Kings (Martin)
A Confederacy of Dunces (Toole)
Sharp Teeth (Barlow)
The Trial (Kafka)
Enduring Love (McEwan)
Breakfast of Champions (Vonnegut)
Orlando (Woolf)
Half the Blood of Brooklyn (Huston
A Storm of Swords (Martin)
Cloud Atlas (Mitchell)
A Canticle for Leibowitz (Miller, Jr.)
The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay (Chabon)
The Demolished Man (Bester)
Vernon God Little (Pierre)
After Dark (Murakami)
The Cosmic Puppets (Dick)
The Master and Margarita (Bulgagov)
Rabbit, Run (Updike)
Flow my Tears, The Policeman said (Dick)
Lamb, the Gospel according to Biff, Christs Childhood pal (Moore)
Heart of Darkness (Conrad)
American Gods (Gaiman)
Chronicles Vol 1(Bob Dylan)
Freakonomics
In the Miso Soup (R. Murakami)
Every Last Drop (Huston)
The Cement Garden (McEwan)

There might be a couple of ones I forgot to add in.

Not very good. Meant to read a lot more. Have really trailed off since July or so. Will try and do better next year.

[Ezee E]

Probably ten or so for me.

:(

[Benny Profane]

Let's wait til the end of the year for these lists.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Let's wait til the end of the year for these lists.

Yeah, I'm not posting mine until I squeeze a few more books in. I'm right around 40 right now. I won't make it, but each year I'm getting closer to my 52 books a year goal.

[Ezee E]

I think I will have 11 by year's end. Next year, I'll shoot for 12.

[D_Davis]

Let's wait til the end of the year for these lists.

Didn't know there were official rules.

So sorry, it shant happen again.

Will you let us know the exact day?

Thanks!

[Kurosawa Fan]

I lied about the end of my small novel run. I'm going to read Lord of the Flies next, because I'm embarrassed that I haven't really read it yet.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I lied about the end of my small novel run. I'm going to read Lord of the Flies next, because I'm embarrassed that I haven't really read it yet.

People are little shits, and need mods.

[Raiders]

People are little shits, and need mods.

Indeed. I considered making it the manual for the mods of this site, but then I figured they had read it. I definitely didn't expect Johnny 5 here to have not read it yet.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Indeed. I considered making it the manual for the mods of this site, but then I figured they had read it. I definitely didn't expect Johnny 5 here to have not read it yet.

:lol:

Nice Short Circuit reference. I kinda half-ass-skimmed it when it was assigned in school, but I've never given it the attention it deserves.

[Mara]

Anyone read Netherland by Joseph O'Neill?

Ex-crush-who-only-writes-me-to-recommend-books-damn-him wrote and recommended it.

[Melville]

Any fan of Moby Dick (Melville) would love this book if they haven't gotten to it already. Any one who loves a well-written survival story would love it as well.
I had never even heard of it before. Thanks for the recommendation.

[Benny Profane]

I had never even heard of it before. Thanks for the recommendation.


Melville is talked about a lot in the book.

Edit: It's written by Nathaniel Philbrick.

[Malickfan]

Anyone read Netherland by Joseph O'Neill?

Ex-crush-who-only-writes-me-to-recommend-books-damn-him wrote and recommended it.

Not yet but it's gotten rave reviews.

[EvilShoe]

I'll be going against the grain, and will read Updike's Rabbit, Run instead of The Crying of Lot 49.

Suck it, yo's.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'll be going against the grain, and will read Updike's Rabbit, Run instead of The Crying of Lot 49.

Suck it, yo's.

Joke's on you bitch. We already went through that phase. You're just licking our boot-heels.

[EvilShoe]

Joke's on you bitch. We already went through that phase. You're just licking our boot-heels.
Don't you bitch me, bitch.
I'll fucking fuck you up.

[Duncan]

Anyone read much by J.M. Coetzee? His wikipedia bio intrigues me, and I would like to read one of his books. Recs? I was thinking of buying Disgrace on the way home from work

[Kurosawa Fan]

Anyone read much by J.M. Coetzee? His wikipedia bio intrigues me, and I would like to read one of his books. Recs?

I read Disgrace, and while it was an uneven experience, it was still a solid novel. It isn't something I'd jump to recommend people, but considering its reputation and the fact that I enjoyed it, it's probably worth taking a look at.

[Mara]

By the way, I've been commuting with my mother to work, and am taking the opportunity of reading aloud to her. Right now I'm making my way through The Tenant of Wildfell Hall with her, and reading it aloud has only increased my respect for this underread classic.

In fact, it beats out Wuthering Heights in my ranked list of Bronte novels:

1. Jane Eyre by Charlotte
2. The Tenant of Wildfell Hall by Anne
3. Wuthering Heights by Emily
4. Villette by Charlotte
5. Shirley by Charlotte
6. Agnes Grey by Anne
7. The Professor by Charlotte

I'm a Bronte nut, obviously. I've read four or so biographies of them, collected letters, juvenalia. I find them fascinating.

[Kurosawa Fan]

My wife bought a copy of Jane Eyre a few months back. I take it you'd suggest I read it? :)

[Mara]

My wife bought a copy of Jane Eyre a few months back. I take it you'd suggest I read it? :)

Um, yes. Because it's awesome. By the way, if you actually don't know what happens in the novel (like, if you've never seen one of the ho-hum film adaptations) don't read spoilers. The novel has one of the best OH HOLY CRAP moments in English Literature.

I had an English professor once who described Bronte novels as "Jane Austen having a nightmare." They are much darker and more intense, with deeply flawed and troubled characters. Both Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights are surrealistic and romantic, with almost supernatural elements. Anne's novels were much more realistic, and the debauchery and sexual politics in The Tenant of Wildfell Hall are downright shocking.

Jane Eyre gave me so many nightmares the first time I tried to read it (I was, I think, 12) that I had to put it away for a couple years.

[Duncan]

I read Disgrace, and while it was an uneven experience, it was still a solid novel. It isn't something I'd jump to recommend people, but considering its reputation and the fact that I enjoyed it, it's probably worth taking a look at.

OK, I'll go with that one then since it was the one I was leaning towards anyway. Thanks.

[Mara]

I wrote my senior thesis for my BA on Jane Eyre.

And it got published in a minor scholarly magazine.

And I got to present it at a literature conference.

And it got quoted in other scholarly papers twice.







So, you know. Go me.

[Mara]

Not yet but it's gotten rave reviews.

I blind-ordered it. A ridiculous thing to do right before Christmas, but it'll be my reward to myself for when I finish the GRE this weekend.

[D_Davis]

That's awesome Mara!

[D_Davis]

Anyone read, or going to read, 2666: A Novel?

http://www.amazon.com/2666-Novel-Roberto-Bolano/dp/0374100144

Sounds interesting.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Anyone read, or going to read, 2666: A Novel?

http://www.amazon.com/2666-Novel-Roberto-Bolano/dp/0374100144

Sounds interesting.

I think it's eternity that's pretty obsessed with Bolano as a writer, and is either tackling it now or will be very soon.

[D_Davis]

I think it's eternity that's pretty obsessed with Bolano as a writer, and is either tackling it now or will be very soon.

I've never read him before, but I saw this at the book store the other day.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Um, yes. Because it's awesome. By the way, if you actually don't know what happens in the novel (like, if you've never seen one of the ho-hum film adaptations) don't read spoilers. The novel has one of the best OH HOLY CRAP moments in English Literature.

I had an English professor once who described Bronte novels as "Jane Austen having a nightmare." They are much darker and more intense, with deeply flawed and troubled characters. Both Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights are surrealistic and romantic, with almost supernatural elements. Anne's novels were much more realistic, and the debauchery and sexual politics in The Tenant of Wildfell Hall are downright shocking.

Jane Eyre gave me so many nightmares the first time I tried to read it (I was, I think, 12) that I had to put it away for a couple years.

I saw the Welles/Fontaine version about 6 years ago or so, and to be honest, I don't remember much about it at all. So I'll avoid spoilers, and perhaps make it the next book I read.

[Melville]

The only book I've read by Coetzee was Foe. I wouldn't recommend it.


I think it's eternity that's pretty obsessed with Bolano as a writer, and is either tackling it now or will be very soon.
Milky Joe has mentioned him a few times.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I suck at remembering things. It's Milky Joe that loves Bolaño.




I also highly recommend Robert Bolaño's last, latest book 2666 as a great piece of literature. I'm only 150 pages in (of 900--maybe I'm just predisposed to huge novels) but it's truly fantastic.

[Hugh_Grant]

OK, I'll go with that one then since it was the one I was leaning towards anyway. Thanks.

I liked Disgrace, but my favorite Coetzee was the novel that was my introduction to him in college: Waiting for the Barbarians.

It tried to read Elizabeth Costello and couldn't get through it.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I read Waiting for the Barbarians by Coetzee. It was good, but it didn't make me rush out to read the rest of his stuff.

[Milky Joe]

Anyone read, or going to read, 2666: A Novel?

http://www.amazon.com/2666-Novel-Roberto-Bolano/dp/0374100144

Sounds interesting.

Yes, I read the first two parts before getting sidetracked with finals and such. I plan on reading it over Winter Break, and I really can't wait. It's a beautiful book.

[D_Davis]

Charlie Huston will be touring for his new book soon. He's coming to Seattle in January.

Awesome.

[D_Davis]

Yes, I read the first two parts before getting sidetracked with finals and such. I plan on reading it over Winter Break, and I really can't wait. It's a beautiful book.

Nice. I've read that it is actually a series of connected novellas. Can I read it in chunks, one novella at a time, with time in between, and still get the full effect? Didn't the author initially want to publish each novella separately?

[megladon8]

Anyone read Alan Lightman's "Ghost"?

I nearly picked it up yesterday at Barnes & Noble. Sounds great.

[D_Davis]

Anyone read Alan Lightman's "Ghost"?

I nearly picked it up yesterday at Barnes & Noble. Sounds great.

I have not yet.

I've read Einstein's Dreams (one of my favorites, read it every year), and Good Benito.

I still need to get Ghost. I really like Lightman.

[Milky Joe]

Nice. I've read that it is actually a series of connected novellas. Can I read it in chunks, one novella at a time, with time in between, and still get the full effect? Didn't the author initially want to publish each novella separately?

Not sure about your last question, but you can definitely read it in chunks like that, probably to your benefit. I've only read two of the five parts (totally 150 pages of 900--the last 3 parts are much longer than the first two it would seem), and I have a feeling that the next parts will resonate more after having spent some time with the first two parts lingering in my mind.

[thefourthwall]

I've read Einstein's Dreams (one of my favorites, read it every year), and Good Benito.


Thanks meg and Daniel for reminding me of Lightman! I've read and really enjoyed both of these as well, but haven't thought about them in a long time. One of the problems with having lots of books in a small space is inevitably (for me anyway) stacks of them end up in crates high up in a closet and I forget that I have them...but, finding and rereading those sounds like an excellent Christmas break activity to me!

[D_Davis]

There are days when I consider Einstein's Dreams my favorite book. It is simply stunning.

It's pretty much the definition of speculative fiction.

A perfect day is sitting at home, drinking coffee, and reading through this book.

Speaking of which, I am going to do this next week.

[Mysterious Dude]

I read Rudyard Kipling's Kim. I had trouble following it. I'd be in the middle of a scene where two people are talking, and I couldn't remember who was talking or where they were or how they came to be in each other's company. Am I just an inattentive reader?

[Duncan]

A Season in Hell by Arthur Rimbaud is an incredible piece of writing. I'm done his Complete Works except for some business letters which I may or may not read over the weekend. Quite a fascinating oeuvre and life.

Ecclesiastes was also pretty great.

[Qrazy]

A Season in Hell by Arthur Rimbaud is an incredible piece of writing. I'm done his Complete Works except for some business letters which I may or may not read over the weekend. Quite a fascinating oeuvre and life.

Ecclesiastes was also pretty great.

I may have to reread his stuff (didn't read the complete works, some smaller collection). I remember liking it and getting quite a bit out of it but I read it all on the subway over a week or so and it hasn't stayed in my memory as much as I would like.

[Duncan]

I may have to reread his stuff (didn't read the complete works, some smaller collection). I remember liking it and getting quite a bit out of it but I read it all on the subway over a week or so and it hasn't stayed in my memory as much as I would like.

The Complete Works is an interesting compilation. It starts with stuff he did as as a ten-year-old for school and takes you all the way through his development as a poet until he was 19. A lot of it is clearly inspired by opium, but the poetry is hallucinatory itself. It also includes letters to and from Rimbaud which sort of tell his biography. I didn't end up reading the entire collection of letters from his post-poet days, but I read enough to get the flavour. He became an trader in Africa selling everything from ivory to arms. There are even suggestions of slave trade. The letters to his sister after his leg was amputated are compelling stuff. He sure lived an amazing life.

[Duncan]

I've only got ~150 pages left in The Idiot. Not quite as great as I had hoped it would be so far, but still very good.

Read the first 50 pages of Disgrace last night. Too early to tell on that one. I'm a little ambivalent.

[Benny Profane]

I've only got ~150 pages left in The Idiot. Not quite as great as I had hoped it would be so far, but still very good.

Read the first 50 pages of Disgrace last night. Too early to tell on that one. I'm a little ambivalent.

I read the first 123 pages over the weekend. I'm actually liking it a lot.

Disgrace, that is.

[Ezee E]

Finished The Zero, and while it is extremely well written, with a fantastic use of satire, I found it to be a bit repetitive after a while, with the constant ends to scenes. It even got frustrating at times, whereas I think it was suppose to be funny. Nonetheless, it's a surprisingly accurate display of our times after 9/11, used for comedy no less. Sort of a Dr. Strangelove in a way.

I might check out Lamb next.

[Benny Profane]

Did Cormac McCarthy rip off J.M. Coetzee?

Page 190 of my edition, David says "No country, this, for old men".

Anyone else notice that?

[Hugh_Grant]

Did Cormac McCarthy rip off J.M. Coetzee?

Page 190 of my edition, David says "No country, this, for old men".

Anyone else notice that?

I see both as a nod to W.B. Yeats' "Sailing to Byzantium":


That is no country for old men. The young
In one another's arms, birds in the trees
- Those dying generations - at their song,
The salmon-falls, the mackerel-crowded seas,
Fish, flesh, or fowl, commend all summer long
Whatever is begotten, born, and dies.
Caught in that sensual music all neglect
Monuments of unaging intellect.

[Benny Profane]

I see both as a nod to W.B. Yeats' "Sailing to Byzantium":

I should have come to you first. That is very cool.

[Ezee E]

Decided to read An Oral Biography of Rant Casey, and while Chuck's previous two or three books before it were pretty poor, this one works again because it focuses on an isolated, strange person, rather then a large group of normal people.

And his humor works here again as well, with the "Easter Egg Grenade" and all.

[D_Davis]

I started The Sun Also Rises last night. Read about 50 pages, and it is fantastic.

[D_Davis]

The Sun Also Rises - about 100 pages in...

So far, so good. Although I am finding a little hard to empathize with the characters. I find their upper-class whining and complaining quite silly. Sitting around all day drinking and talking about getting published and going out at night is not something I usually find interesting.

However, Hemingway's writing is amazing, and he does the impossible - he makes all that stuff sound good. Left in lesser hands, I probably wouldn't be reading this.

The book is peppered with great wit, and it possesses many funny moments. More than once I've laughed out loud at the absurdity of the characters and their self importance; they're like a bunch of overgrown children playing make believe while their parents are away socializing. Like high school kids, they have blinders on, acting dramatically about the silliest of things.

Was Hemingway satirizing this 'lost generation,' showing us all how silly and pointless it was? Or is he romanticizing and glamorizing it? I don't yet, but I think that the key to my ultimate enjoyment lies within the answer to these questions.

I do now more fully understand William Saroyan's complaints about Hemingway, but I can't say if I agree with him or not.

But again, for me, right now, it all comes back to the prose - and it is absolutely masterful. I love Hemingway's economy of words; his brevity is a godsend, and a great inspiration.

[Robby P]

Has anyone read Netherland yet? It's drawing comparisons to The Great Gatsby.

[Mara]

Has anyone read Netherland yet? It's drawing comparisons to The Great Gatsby.

Oddly enough, I just started this tonight. I'm only about 20 pages in, and I'm kind of hoping it's not all about cricket.

The friend who recommended it is pretty solid, so I'm hoping it will be good.

[Hugh_Grant]

My husband and I are leaving in a couple days for a cruise. I had been thinking about what books to read on the trip when I spotted a copy of The Master and Margarita on a colleague's bookshelf. It's been on my to-read list for quite a while, so I'm excited.


But again, for me, right now, it all comes back to the prose - and it is absolutely masterful. I love Hemingway's economy of words; his brevity is a godsend, and a great inspiration.
Yes.

[Benny Profane]

The Master and Margarita is beyond excellent. It is one of my all-time favorites, high up there on the list.

[Benny Profane]

PS enjoy the cruise!

[Duncan]

I finished Disgrace last night. If I had known what the central metaphor was going in I never would have read it. I had to put my dog down about a month ago. This book ripped my fucking guts out. Jesus Christ that was a tough read.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I finished Disgrace last night. If I had known what the central metaphor was going in I never would have read it. I had to put my dog down about a month ago. This book ripped my fucking guts out. Jesus Christ that was a tough read.

Shit. I'm sorry man. If I had remembered that I wouldn't have recommended it, or I at least would have warned you first.

[monolith94]

Anyone else hear read The Black Swan? I listened to it on audiobook, actually, because that was the only version the library had (all the actual texts were checked out, and the waitinglist for it was very long).

Pretty interesting read, or listen as the case may be. Although Taleb can be frustratingly hypocritical at times. For example, when he mocks people for thinking that nationality is imporant in terms of shaping a person's outlook/psyche/ideas, and then he goes and pokes fun at French people every now and again.

[Mara]

Anyone else hear read The Black Swan?

I was going to say yes, but then your post made me think maybe we were talking about different books. (http://www.amazon.com/Black-Elemental-Masters-Fairy-Tales/dp/0886778905/ref=pd_bbs_sr_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1229710093&sr=8-7) Also, this (http://www.amazon.com/Black-Swan-Tyrone-Power/dp/B000FFJ83A/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1229710093&sr=8-3) is a fun movie.

[monolith94]

Nope. This is the book I mean:

http://www.bookswim.com/images_books/large/The_Black_Swan_The_Impact_of_t he_Highly_Improbable-119186023686830.jpg

It's really interesting, especially in light of all this financial fracas.

[Benny Profane]

I finished Disgrace last night. If I had known what the central metaphor was going in I never would have read it. I had to put my dog down about a month ago. This book ripped my fucking guts out. Jesus Christ that was a tough read.

Funny, I also finished this last night. I really liked his writing style. The prose was spare but made a lot if impact. David reminded me a lot of Saul Bellow's Herzog; a middle-aged scholar/intellectual with girl trouble who is experienced yet at the same time very innocent. I wonder how this book was received in South Africa.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Did either of you feel that the book was significantly better when he was on campus as opposed to when he was on the farm? That was my main gripe with the novel.

[Benny Profane]

Did either of you feel that the book was significantly better when he was on campus as opposed to when he was on the farm? That was my main gripe with the novel.

In terms of plausibility (Lucy deciding to stay put after what happened to her, give up her house, etc.) yes.

[Duncan]

Did either of you feel that the book was significantly better when he was on campus as opposed to when he was on the farm? That was my main gripe with the novel.

I felt the opposite actually. I thought the book was significantly better on the farm. The campus stuff was bourgeois intellectual trials that didn't really interest me.

[Benny Profane]

I didn't particularly care for the Byron opera but that didn't take up too much space.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I felt the opposite actually. I thought the book was significantly better on the farm. The campus stuff was bourgeois intellectual trials that didn't really interest me.

I remember feeling that Coetzee seemed more comfortable with the story and the characters when the campus was the setting. It seemed to flow easier, more naturally I guess.


Currently Reading: On Chesil Beach by Ian McEwan

That's exciting. I'm anxious to see how you respond to this one. I know... Lucky I think?... didn't care for it, but I thought it was very good.

[thefourthwall]

Disgrace was one of those books that I thought was fairly well written and dealt with some important issues, but I didn't especially enjoy it. There wasn't a character I could easily relate to or understand. They all kept making weird decisions that I couldn't rationalize. I always hoped that his other stuff was better, since he's a Nobel Prize winner.

[Duncan]

I thought the character motivations made a lot of sense. Even the daughter's, though it was misguided.

[thefourthwall]

Honestly, I read this book a couple of years ago (I tried to find a short paper I wrote on it, but can't :sad:), so maybe I'm not entirely remembering correctly. I think it was mainly the daughter and her decision...

...to stay on the farm after all the violence that occurred to her there. I did not understand her justification, believing that her opening herself up to victimization somehow helped heal racial injustices of the past. I don't believe that reciprocal violence will ever lead to peace.

I'm very sorry to hear about your dog though--I can imagine that the story hit a personal nerve.

[thefourthwall]

Read Evelyn Waugh's The Loved One because it apparently is one of J.G. Ballard's favorites, and because I was compelled by Waugh's description of it as "a little nightmare produced by the unaccustomed high-living of a brief visit to Hollywood." A short novel, it follows Dennis Barlow, a British poet in Hollywood, who works at a pet cemetary and falls in love with a cosmetician at a high profile funeral home. Bizarre and amusing. I was unprepared for the end of the book though I can't imagine it any other way. The tension between American and English sensibilities as well as Waugh's commentary on WWII poetry is highly enjoyable.

[Duncan]

Read The Loved One about 5 years ago. Remember liking it, but not much else.


I finished The Idiot today. It was very good, but didn't quite live up to my expectations. There are some tremendous scenes (day of Myshkin's first seizure, Ippolit's explanation, multiple scenes with Rogozhin). But overall I though the plot was too digressive, or had too many unsatisfactory sidebars. A lot of the time I just didn't really care what the minor characters had to say and wanted to get back to Myshkin and those immediately around him. It makes for an uneven experience. Nevertheless, Dostoevsky is as insightful as ever, always probing, never letting characters fall into arcs but making them dynamic, genuinely influenced by what is happening around them. I love that he very rarely says "So-and-so was thinking this." Their states of mind are conveyed through tone, facial expression, reaction to what other people say, etc. For example, the first time we really meet Madame Epanchin the General uses Myshkin as a distraction from his own improprieties and from the way he speaks we learn volumes about her. We know what she values, what angers her, what eccentricities she has - all from an unassuming conversation. Doesn't really need to be said, but Dostoevsky was an absolute master, man. Guy knew how to write a story ridiculously well. Still, I've read better by him.


Started The Crying of Lot 49.

[Melville]

Yeah, The Idiot's bizarre plot structure, which skips pivotal plot points in favor of dwelling on extended conversations between secondary characters, is very appealing in the way it fits with the book's philosophical inquiries, and it works very well with Dostoevsky's mastery of extended scenes of social events decaying into embarrassments and disputes—but in the end it just didn't work as well for me as his best novels.
What did you think of the scene in Rogozhin's bedroom, after the murder? That was probably one of the most gut-wrenching scenes I've ever read, on so many levels.

[Duncan]

Yeah, The Idiot's bizarre plot structure, which skips pivotal plot points in favor of dwelling on extended conversations between secondary characters, is very appealing in the way it fits with the book's philosophical inquiries, and it works very well with Dostoevsky's mastery of extended scenes of social events decaying into embarrassments and disputes—but in the end it just didn't work as well for me as his best novels.
What did you think of the scene in Rogozhin's bedroom, after the murder? That was probably one of the most gut-wrenching scenes I've ever read, on so many levels.

I don't know if it'd qualify for most gut-wrenching scenes I've ever read, but it was certainly haunting. Especially loved how he described the darkness in the room and the shrouded faces. Also like how he meters out our gradual realization that Myshkin has once again lost his mind.


Finished The Crying of Lot 49. It's good, of course, but I think a lesser novel than any of the other three Pynchon books I've read. The paranoia is full force but the book doesn't have time to breathe and explore like his other novels do. The conspiracy is constantly being unraveled but it doesn't have the same sinister periphery that Gravity's Rainbow does, or the integration of wildly different fields of study. It's not as enveloping or encyclopedic. It seems like a novel about the conspiracy whereas his other novels are more about living amidst the conspiracy.

[Benny Profane]

Breezed through On Chesil Beach. The ending pretty much makes it great. How pride and stubbornness can prevent you from saying what you mean to the people you love and it can ruin relationships forever. The things that are unsaid can be just as regretful as what is spoken aloud. And the past and regret lingers for a lifetime.

Moving on to 2666 by Roberto Bolano. In hardback this is a fkn doorstopper of a heavy book.

[Mara]

In terms of reading aloud on my work commute, we've finished The Tenant of Wildfell Hall and have moved on to Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, which I have been wanting to reread.

[Benny Profane]

[SPOILER]
The conspiracy is constantly being unraveled but it doesn't have the same sinister periphery that Gravity's Rainbow does, or the integration of wildly different fields of study. It's not as enveloping or encyclopedic. It seems like a novel about the conspiracy whereas his other novels are more about living amidst the conspiracy.


I am in stout agreement with you here.

[Melville]

I read the first 50 pages of Takovsky's Sculpting in Time yesterday. It strikes me as the most Duncan-y book ever.

[Qrazy]

I read the first 50 pages of Takovsky's Sculpting in Time yesterday. It strikes me as the most Duncan-y book ever.

It's pretty class. I think I'm about 2/3's through it, have it on my computer and read it in installments every once in a while.

[Benny Profane]

OK so I am only 70 pages into 2666 (only 828 pages to go) but I have a really really really good feeling about this book. Could be an all-timer.

[Ezee E]

OK so I am only 70 pages into 2666 (only 828 pages to go) but I have a really really really good feeling about this book. Could be an all-times.
What's it about?

[Benny Profane]

From Publisher's Weekly:


The novel is divided into five parts (Bolaño originally imagined it being published as five books) and begins with the adventures and love affairs of a small group of scholars dedicated to the work of Benno von Archimboldi, a reclusive German novelist. They trace the writer to the Mexican border town of Santa Teresa (read: Juarez), but there the trail runs dry, and it isn't until the final section that readers learn about Benno and why he went to Santa Teresa. The heart of the novel comes in the three middle parts: in The Part About Amalfitano, a professor from Spain moves to Santa Teresa with his beautiful daughter, Rosa, and begins to hear voices. The Part About Fate, the novel's weakest section, concerns Quincy Fate Williams, a black American reporter who is sent to Santa Teresa to cover a prizefight and ends up rescuing Rosa from her gun-toting ex-boyfriend. The Part About the Crimes, the longest and most haunting section, operates on a number of levels: it is a tormented catalogue of women murdered and raped in Santa Teresa; a panorama of the power system that is either covering up for the real criminals with its implausible story that the crimes were all connected to a German national, or too incompetent to find them (or maybe both); and it is a collection of the stories of journalists, cops, murderers, vengeful husbands, prisoners and tourists, among others, presided over by an old woman seer. It is safe to predict that no novel this year will have as powerful an effect on the reader as this one. (Nov.)

[Milky Joe]

OK so I am only 70 pages into 2666 (only 828 pages to go) but I have a really really really good feeling about this book. Could be an all-timer.

That's about how I felt. The prose is infectious, literally. It makes you feel diseased. It's hard to read for that reason, but also incredibly powerful because of it.

[Benny Profane]

That's about how I felt. The prose is infectious, literally. It makes you feel diseased. It's hard to read for that reason, but also incredibly powerful because of it.

I knew there was someone on the board who read it. You finish it Joe?

[Milky Joe]

I knew there was someone on the board who read it. You finish it Joe?

Nah, I'm only in the middle of the third part, a little over 300 pages in. It'll take me a while to finish, I think. I like to savor these long novels. Infinite Jest took me a year to finish, reading off and on in spurts. This is a quicker read than IJ, but it's also a lot more bleak and gut-wrenching, so who knows.

[Benny Profane]

If I can finish a 900 page book in under a month I'll be pleased with that.

[Duncan]

I'm almost done Sartre's Nausea. It's alright so far.

Also just started Infinite Jest, which I got for Christmas. Only like 30 pages in.

Bought 2666 for myself cuz it was half-price the other day. Probably won't be reading it for a while though.

[Melville]

I'm almost done Sartre's Nausea. It's alright so far.
Matchcut's lack of love for this is disturbing. It's a narrative exegesis of existentialism; what's not to love?

[Melville]

It's pretty class. I think I'm about 2/3's through it, have it on my computer and read it in installments every once in a while.
I finished it last night. It has some really great stuff in it, but overall I was a bit disappointed. Tarkovsky's view of cinema is way too dogmatic: it must present the artist's direct experience of the world, and anything else it can do debases that basic requirement. And the distinctions he draws between film and the other arts, based on his dogmatic definition of cinema, are way too strict.

His view of editing is especially problematic. He says that it does not provide rhythm, that the rhythm is inherent in the flow of time in each shot. This seems, as they say, counterfactual, and he never provides enough specifics to make clear how rhythm is contained within each shot. He also says that the notion of montage necessarily reduces films to a play of concepts, rather than directly conveying the artist's experience of time. This seems to me to undervalue the importance of concepts in our experience, and it also seems like an unnecessary consequence of juxtapositions; why must the impact juxtapositions rely on concepts?

He also seems to contradict himself quite frequently.

[Duncan]

I finished it last night. It has some really great stuff in it, but overall I was a bit disappointed. Tarkovsky's view of cinema is way too dogmatic: it must present the artist's direct experience of the world, and anything else it can do debases that basic requirement. And the distinctions he draws between film and the other arts, based on his dogmatic definition of cinema, are way too strict.

His view of editing is especially problematic. He says that it does not provide rhythm, that the rhythm is inherent in the flow of time in each shot. This seems, as they say, counterfactual, and he never provides enough specifics to make clear how rhythm is contained within each shot. He also says that the notion of montage necessarily reduces films to a play of concepts, rather than directly conveying the artist's experience of time. This seems to me to undervalue the importance of concepts in our experience, and it also seems like an unnecessary consequence of juxtapositions; why must the impact juxtapositions rely on concepts?

He also seems to contradict himself quite frequently.

I kind of agree. My favourite part is when he says he's a proponent of realism but that that doesn't necessarily mean you have to film things realistically. I have thought very hard about how I experience the world when I am remembering something or imagining something and I can't find anything truly analogous in cinema. But I think cinema has to include montage if it is to approach anything resembling realism. Maybe that's dogmatic too.

He also has an exceptionally high opinion of the artist and art as some ideal, which is an idea that I've never agreed with. Art is just something that can evoke meaningful ideas and feelings in life, like many other things we experience.

[Melville]

I kind of agree. My favourite part is when he says he's a proponent of realism but that that doesn't necessarily mean you have to film things realistically. I have thought very hard about how I experience the world when I am remembering something or imagining something and I can't find anything truly analogous in cinema. But I think cinema has to include montage if it is to approach anything resembling realism. Maybe that's dogmatic too.

He also has an exceptionally high opinion of the artist and art as some ideal, which is an idea that I've never agreed with. Art is just something that can evoke meaningful ideas and feelings in life, like many other things we experience.
Glad you agree. I thought you were a bigger fan. Especially in the early sections of the book, his focus on ethics and the more ineffable and poetic, less intellectual or analytical, aspects of film reminded me of things you've written.

[Duncan]

Glad you agree. I thought you were a bigger fan. Especially in the early sections of the book, his focus on ethics and the more ineffable and poetic, less intellectual or analytical, aspects of film reminded me of things you've written.

I probably am a bigger fan than my last post suggested. I'd like to re-read the title chapter. Not sure I remember everything properly.

[Benny Profane]

Matchcut's lack of love for this is disturbing. It's a narrative exegesis of existentialism; what's not to love?

I had a difficult time with the writing. But I was pretty young when I read it. 18 or 19 perhaps.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished Lord of the Flies a couple nights ago. Wonderful stuff. Disturbing and frightening. Speaks volumes to the necessity of government and police. Barty would love it.

Next up: Clockers, by Richard Price.

[Ezee E]

Clockers is a good one. Enjoy.

[ledfloyd]

i picked up walker percy's the moviegoer on a whim. the back flap made me think i'd finxd it relatable.

[Ezee E]

While I've seen many of the classic movies, I certainly have not read the classic books.

Right now, The Great Gatsby.

Yeah, it's pretty good.

[Melville]

While I've seen many of the classic movies, I certainly have not read the classic books.

Right now, The Great Gatsby.

Yeah, it's pretty good.
It seems that most people here were unimpressed by it, but I thought it was pretty great. It perfectly captures a time and place and some of the basic problems of the American Dream (though admittedly the latter is largely a recap of Great Expectations). Maybe people are unimpressed by it because it doesn't really do anything else; its structure is more like that of a short story than that of a novel, with everything fitting together to form one specific idea (at least that's how I remember it).

Edit: also, even though I related to it, The Moviegoer kind of sucks.

[Boner M]

Resolved to read 50 books this year. We'll see how that goes. Been 5 days and I've read 2 pages of Flann O'Brien's The Third Policeman. There's still hope.

[Ezee E]

It seems that most people here were unimpressed by it, but I thought it was pretty great. It perfectly captures a time and place and some of the basic problems of the American Dream (though admittedly the latter is largely a recap of Great Expectations). Maybe people are unimpressed by it because it doesn't really do anything else; its structure is more like that of a short story than that of a novel, with everything fitting together to form one specific idea (at least that's how I remember it).

Edit: also, even though I related to it, The Moviegoer kind of sucks.
It's a quick read, but I also love the setting and classiness that is in the culture of that time. The characters are all interesting to me. I'd like to see what people didn't like about it.

It's definitely tougher to review a book for me instead of a movie. Yeesh.

[Hugh_Grant]

i picked up walker percy's the moviegoer on a whim. the back flap made me think i'd finxd it relatable.

I decided to finally read this during my break, and I found it to be very disappointing.

[thefourthwall]

Right now, The Great Gatsby.

Yeah, it's pretty good.

I knew a girl who made a potential boyfriend take a general knowledge test of her own devising, which included the question "What is symbolized by the green light at the end of the pier in The Great Gatsby?"

So, clearly important stuff to know.

Plus, I think it's wonderful--Do we care about Gatsby because he truly is great or because Nick says he is?

[Raiders]

I knew a girl who made a potential boyfriend take a general knowledge test of her own devising, which included the question "What is symbolized by the green light at the end of the pier in The Great Gatsby?"

I had a high school test that asked the exact same question. I think that class may have forever ruined this book for me, because I read it once since and just didn't care much for it.

[Ezee E]

I had a high school test that asked the exact same question. I think that class may have forever ruined this book for me, because I read it once since and just didn't care much for it.
Maybe it's good that I didn't read it in high school.

[[ETM]]

I should read The Great Gatsby one of these days... I know that Gatsby shows off a Montenegrin medal as proof of his wartime endeavors. I'm Montenegrin and King Nikola I did indeed give out such medals for bravery, but some people then and now joke about the... sheer numbers of these medals, and the merits of those who received them.:)

[Malickfan]

Resolved to read 50 books this year. We'll see how that goes. Been 5 days and I've read 2 pages of Flann O'Brien's The Third Policeman. There's still hope.

One of my favorite authors, Stephen Graham Jones said this about The Third Policeman...

and, THIRD POLICEMAN, looking forward to it's maybe not the most healthy approach. best to look in a really sidelong way, like it's got thoughts about you too, and then, just all at once, scurry fast at it. if it feints away, even for an instant, then know that you've got it. otherwise, hold on.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Halfway through Clockers and loving it so far.

[Hugh_Grant]

My sister read The Great Gatsby in high school and also grew weary of the green light analysis. Reminds me of a colleague of mine who spends SIX WEEKS teaching William Faulkner's short story "A Rose for Emily."

[Mara]

I've been picking up and putting down books so fast that I haven't been keeping good track.

I'd heard fantastic things about The Astonishing Life of Octavian Nothing, Traitor to the Nation, Volume I: The Pox Party, which has an awesome name. Unfortunately, the book was disappointing, baffling, and meandering. It was stylistically interesting, but not for any particular reason, which made it feel sort of conceited. I didn't hate it, exactly, but I'm not going to seek out Volume II either.

I've been making my way through Payback: Debt and the Shadow Side of Wealth by Margaret Atwood, and so far I'm loving it. I geniunely believe that Atwood is the best fiction writer working in the English language right now, but this is non-fiction. It's not an economy text. Instead, it's Atwood's musings into how the idea of debt and credit are intregal to our understanding of life, religion, and literature.

[Duncan]

Finished Sartre's Nausea and ended up loving it.

I'm struggling a bit with Infinite Jest. The end notes thing is killing me. On average there is one every ~3 pages. All this seems to do is remind me that I've only read another 3 pages of a 1000 page book and have another 900 hundred to go. I can't just sit down and read the thing for a few hours straight. I always flip to the back, put it down and wander off to do something else.

edit: I feel like I'm re-taking thermodynamics and have to look up tables in the back of my text book constantly. If a novel wants to woo me, it should not remind me of thermo. On the other hand, I am enjoying the material itself very much even if I don't care for 5 page descriptions building ventilation systems.