The Book Discussion Thread

[Kurosawa Fan]

When I think about it, it really makes me want to prioritize, and I realize that those last 6 hours I've spent playing Geometry Wars 2 probably weren't spent very well.

Seeing as video games aren't important to me, it's why I pretty much have given them up. Every time I go to play them, I think about the time I could be spending with my family or the movie I could be watching or the book I could be reading and I no longer have any desire to play the game.

[D_Davis]

Seeing as video games aren't important to me, it's why I pretty much have given them up. Every time I go to play them, I think about the movie I could be watching or the book I could be reading and I no longer have any desire to play the game.

Totally. They've moved WAY down on my list of things to do - probably in second to last place, just above watching movies now. This year has been all about reading and playing music. I still like VGs, but I just feel bad if I play for too long. But sometimes I just give in and indulge. It's fun to every once in awhile.

[Grouchy]

Very intriguing since I see part of it is set in Barcelona and that's where I'm headed. This is in the lead for now.
It's set in Barcelona, Mexico DF, Paris, Chile, Africa, and a long-ass etcetera. Globe-trotting story and characters. Plenty of outlandish comedy, too, and the structure is unique.

[D_Davis]

Finished John Goldfarb. It is okay. It is really well written, and pretty dang funny, but I wasn't really into the story or the characters. It's almost too unhinged for its own good. I think this would be better read in a group setting, in which it could be discussed at length. There is so much going on that it is kind of hard to internalize it all, and having someone else to bounce ideas and thoughts of of would be beneficial.

[Duncan]

I read T.S. Eliot's Collected Poems. He's not really my kind of poet. A lot of it seems like standard the modern world is so impersonal type stuff. And his solution is to go to church? Still, some impressive use of language on display. And the section Four Quartets was great. Almost like it was written by a different person.

[Qrazy]

I read T.S. Eliot's Collected Poems. He's not really my kind of poet. A lot of it seems like standard the modern world is so impersonal type stuff. And his solution is to go to church? Still, some impressive use of language on display. And the section Four Quartets was great. Almost like it was written by a different person.

Yeah but he was one of the forerunners and more linguistically talented of the modern world is so impersonal type stuff. I've always read The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock as sort of a long delayed critique/reaction to Goethe's The Sorrows of Young Werther.

[Melville]

I've always read The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock as sort of a long delayed critique/reaction to Goethe's The Sorrows of Young Werther.
Interesting. Care to expand on that?

The only things I've read by Eliot are Prufrock and The Wasteland. I loved the former, but I found the latter interesting primarily for the way it integrates Eliot's explanatory commentary and the poem into a single text.

[Qrazy]

Interesting. Care to expand on that?

The only things I've read by Eliot are Prufrock and The Wasteland. I loved the former, but I found the latter interesting primarily for the way it integrates Eliot's explanatory commentary and the poem into a single text.

Well I don't know if there's any historical support for the notion but I read somewhere that he was fond of Goethe... anyway I feel that way I suppose because of the similarities between the two characters... Werther's always wandering around, fragile child of romanticism that he is, pissing and moaning about true love and very concerned with how his romance will unfold. Prufrock to me seemed like a ribbing of this Woe is me, emotionally fragile mentality that Werther essentially embodies. Or perhaps Prufrock is a slightly different creature, the modern Romantic, hardly able to express his love at all for fear of alienation and failure.

[Duncan]

I've always read The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock as sort of a long delayed critique/reaction to Goethe's The Sorrows of Young Werther. I should read that one. I enjoyed Faust a lot, especially since I've gone back over certain passages recently.

Finally started up Anna Karenina again today.

[D_Davis]

Starting Robert Littell's The Company today, a 1000+ page historical fiction of the CIA and the Cold War. I've heard it is brilliant, and this will definitely be the longest book I've ever read.

[Benny Profane]

It's set in Barcelona, Mexico DF, Paris, Chile, Africa, and a long-ass etcetera. Globe-trotting story and characters. Plenty of outlandish comedy, too, and the structure is unique.

Grouchy, I was all set to buy this but once I got to the bookstore I totally spaced both the title and the author. So I went with The Executioner's Song by Mailer instead.

[Benny Profane]

Starting Robert Littell's The Company today, a 1000+ page historical fiction of the CIA and the Cold War. I've heard it is brilliant, and this will definitely be the longest book I've ever read.

I think I've read 3 books over 1,000 pages. I used to be intimidated by anything over 400 pages, but now I consider 400 pages to be short.

[Hugh_Grant]

I think I've read 3 books over 1,000 pages. I used to be intimidated by anything over 400 pages, but now I consider 400 pages to be short.

Wow, I wish my students felt this way.
"That reading is ten pages long!?!? That's too much."

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished The Devil in the White City. Quite good, though perhaps not as good as I was expecting considering the praise. Benny, you complained of the repetition of Malcolm Gladwell in The Tipping Point, but I found the same to be true of Larson. How many times did we need to read about Olmsted and his misgivings about his landscaping being changed/ruined/incomplete? Or about Burnham and his fight to keep things on schedule? The book ended up feeling stuffed with too much filler, especially when Holmes wasn't present. The length would have perhaps been fine had they divided more equally the time spent with Burnham and Holmes. It's probably due to limitations of information on Holmes' activities, and Larson's need to avoid speculation in place of facts, but in that case I think some trimming to the information on the Fair would have helped the overall pace of things. I found myself too often anticipating what was going to happen with Holmes when I should have been focusing on Burnham and the struggles of the Fair.

Still it was fascinating for the most part. You're still batting 1.000.

[Melville]

I've just about finished Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation. It's littered with great ideas, but it doesn't really work too well as philosophy; it's mostly just a string of assertions and questionable readings of recent historical events, and a some of its concepts are so vaguely formulated that they're almost meaningless.

Also, despite the Wachowski's apparently having been inspired by Baudrillard, The Matrix seems pretty superficially related to his ideas.


Well I don't know if there's any historical support for the notion but I read somewhere that he was fond of Goethe... anyway I feel that way I suppose because of the similarities between the two characters... Werther's always wandering around, fragile child of romanticism that he is, pissing and moaning about true love and very concerned with how his romance will unfold. Prufrock to me seemed like a ribbing of this Woe is me, emotionally fragile mentality that Werther essentially embodies. Or perhaps Prufrock is a slightly different creature, the modern Romantic, hardly able to express his love at all for fear of alienation and failure.
Yeah, I guess that's reasonable, although I'm not sure that Werther needs to be singled out. Prufrock seems like a response to the whole history of melancholy, indecisive young literary heroes, from Telemachus to Hamlet to Werther to Raskolnikov.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I think I'm going to read The Film Club next. Seems like a very quick read.

[Qrazy]

I've just about finished Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation. It's littered with great ideas, but it doesn't really work too well as philosophy; it's mostly just a string of assertions and questionable readings of recent historical events, and a some of its concepts are so vaguely formulated that they're almost meaningless.

Also, despite the Wachowski's apparently having been inspired by Baudrillard, The Matrix seems pretty superficially related to his ideas.


Yeah, I guess that's reasonable, although I'm not sure that Werther needs to be singled out. Prufrock seems like a response to the whole history of melancholy, indecisive young literary heroes, from Telemachus to Hamlet to Werther to Raskolnikov.

Ehh I found it less about indecisiveness in general and more about indecisiveness in relation to love, which is why I singled the character out.

[Sven]

The Matrix seems pretty superficially related to... ideas.

Agreed

[D_Davis]

Yeah, as a SF nut, I thought the "out there ideas" of the Matrix were not so great. I guess it is more thoughtful than most action films, but as SF it is pretty dang shallow, and rather pedestrian. It basically took the philosophical and technological ideas explored in books by Gibson, Dick, Shirley, and Bester and skimmed the very top of the surface of these to craft its own narrative. Of course those authors are probably only wading in the philosophies they are exploring, so take that as you will.

[Duncan]

I've just about finished Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation. It's littered with great ideas, but it doesn't really work too well as philosophy; it's mostly just a string of assertions and questionable readings of recent historical events, and a some of its concepts are so vaguely formulated that they're almost meaningless.
I read about half of Screened Out, a collection of his essays, before coming to the same conclusion. I like him more for his perspective on history as it unfolds than as a philosopher. Definitely some original ideas even if they aren't convincingly argued.

[Benny Profane]

Finished The Devil in the White City. Quite good, though perhaps not as good as I was expecting considering the praise. Benny, you complained of the repetition of Malcolm Gladwell in The Tipping Point, but I found the same to be true of Larson. How many times did we need to read about Olmsted and his misgivings about his landscaping being changed/ruined/incomplete? Or about Burnham and his fight to keep things on schedule? The book ended up feeling stuffed with too much filler, especially when Holmes wasn't present. The length would have perhaps been fine had they divided more equally the time spent with Burnham and Holmes. It's probably due to limitations of information on Holmes' activities, and Larson's need to avoid speculation in place of facts, but in that case I think some trimming to the information on the Fair would have helped the overall pace of things. I found myself too often anticipating what was going to happen with Holmes when I should have been focusing on Burnham and the struggles of the Fair.

Still it was fascinating for the most part. You're still batting 1.000.

Glad you read it and liked it.

For me, I thought the re-telling of the events building up to the Fair were just as interesting as Holmes. These guys pulled off the seemingly impossible and made it spectacular in the process. All the bullshit they had to put up with, the red tape, the committees, the railroads, their own exhaustion and sickness, and them overcoming it all was very cathartic. To be honest, when I was reading about people's reactions to the Fair when they first walked through it, I got a little emotional. It made me proud of my country. I really had no complaints in that regard. Gladwell repeats himself in a totally different manner than Larson.

The way it bounced between good and evil (the Fair and Holmes) really kept my interest. I was totally unaware of the importance/grandness of the Fair, nor did I know anything about Holmes, so I felt like a learned a lot. Larson had a keen way of developing suspense, which is what I love about the non-fiction crime genre.

[Benny Profane]

Kafka on the Shore was a quick read but it is horrible. Absolutely flat-out horrible. Murakami throws 100 balls up into the air and catches none of them.

[Duncan]

I'm reading The Story of Utopias by Lewis Mumford while I'm at work. I found a free copy online at Sacred Texts. My good friend in uni did his thesis on Mumford's work, so I thought I'd give him a shot. I print out a chapter or two a day and work my way through them. So little to do otherwise.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I finished The Film Club already. Very short book, one I was ready to write off after 50 pages due to some really poor writing and general corniness. However, as the book progresses Gilmour finds direction and the story becomes much more engrossing. He's still prone to some unbearable analogies and "metaphors", but he's very honest about his experience and being a father of two sons it was interesting to say the least. Not sorry I read it, but I wouldn't really recommend it either.

[megladon8]

That wouldn't be Pink Floys'd David Gilmour, would it? :|

[Kurosawa Fan]

That wouldn't be Pink Floys'd David Gilmour, would it? :|

Certainly not.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Oh, and I'm probably going to read The New York Trilogy next. It's been on my shelf for years.

[Duncan]

I finished Anna Karenina. I didn't like it. I feel like 400 pages of that thing could be hacked out and you'd have a better novel. Literature majors across the world will certainly disagree with me. As a document of its time it's stupendous, I'm sure. Skewers the upper class just fine. But I'm just not interested in the hypocrisy of Russia's late 19th century nobility. They're immoral, indulgent, superficial, two-faced, yada yada yada. I get it. Their biggest sin is that they don't "live for their souls" as Anna tried to do but couldn't embrace. It has its high points: some of Levin's internal struggles, the visit he and Kitty pay to Nikolai, Anna's stream-of-consciousness segment towards the end of Part 7. And it's structured magnificently. Amazing that he could weave all those characters together so seamlessly, never forcing anything. But too much of it was parlour chats, and arguments over which mansion to live in, and discussions about how Anna is such a repulsive, fallen woman (all of which are obviously and I don't think originally critical of the characters involved) for me to enjoy the novel.

[Melville]

I finished Anna Karenina. I didn't like it.
Have you read Madame Bovary? I loved that one, and I've always wondered how the two compare.

[Duncan]

Have you read Madame Bovary? I loved that one, and I've always wondered how the two compare.

I have not.

[Melville]

I have not.
I guess I'll have to read Anna Karenina to find out then. Bummer.

[Duncan]

I guess I'll have to read Anna Karenina to find out then. Bummer.

Well, a lot of people call it the best novel ever so it's probably worth giving a shot.

[Duncan]

Started Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas after Anna Karenina. 50 pages in. Funny and quick so far. Pretty much the kind of book I was looking to read.

[Melville]

Well, a lot of people call it the best novel ever so it's probably worth giving a shot.
Well, a lot of people also call War and Peace the best novel ever, but besides the last couple hundred pages of bizarre ruminations, I didn't think it was that great.

Funnily enough, when I searched for Madame Bovary and Anna Karenina on Google, I found this list of the ten greatest books ever written:

1. Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
2. Madame Bovary by Gustave Flaubert
3. War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy
4. Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov
5. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
6. Hamlet by William Shakespeare
7. The Great Gatsby F. Scott Fitzgerald
8. In Search of Lost Time by Marcel Proust
9. The Stories of Anton Chekhov by Anton Chekhov
10. Middlemarch by George Eliot

(It's compiled from a poll of 125 noted modern authors, whose individual top ten lists are presented in a book called "The Top 10". Review here: http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1578073,00.html)

[Milky Joe]

Gatsby, Chekhov over Ulysses? Hmph.

Oh, hah, that's the list where David Foster Wallace put Tom Clancy and Stephen King in his top 10.

[D_Davis]

I'm starting, Narrative of the Life of Henry Box Brown, a slave narrative published in 1851 about a slave who mailed himself to freedom by hiding in a 3x2 wooden crate.

I had no idea there is an entire genre of slave narratives, and often these memoirs were best sellers, and were received with rave reviews.

This will be cool, something totally new for me.

[Qrazy]

Finished The Unbearable Lightness of Being, I had mixed feelings about it. I'm either moving on to East of Eden or a collection of Eugene O'Neill plays.

[Melville]

I just finished two late 18th/early 19th Century books about people being perverted by religious ideals and then murdering their families. The first was Wieland, or The Transformation: An American Tale by Charles Brockden Brown, which is apparently considered the first great American novel. It focused on the instability of the human mind and of the rational basis of society, and it had a compelling mood of Gothic horror. It seemed like it was probably a major influence on Hawthorne and Melville. The second book was Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner by James Hogg, in which Satan leads a man to murder and blasphemy by preaching an extreme version of the Calvinist doctrine of salvation by grace. It was primarily satirical, unlike the wrought seriousness of Wieland, and it used a lot more literary pyrotechnics (e.g. an unreliable narrator, multiple versions of events, an epistolary structure) and more directly studied the consequences of perverting Christian theology. Both books were really good.



Finished The Unbearable Lightness of Being, I had mixed feelings about it. I'm either moving on to East of Eden or a collection of Eugene O'Neill plays.
Have you gotten around to reading Jimmy Corrigan yet?

[Duncan]

Finished Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. It was very funny and certainly gets its point across about the perverted American Dream. However, a lot of the humour is bitter and even hateful. At the very least it's a condescending book. Like when Thompson describes being high on mescalin watching an obese cop make out with his wife. He's so disgusted he can barely take it. So Pigs aren't allowed to have a little free love? Or just fat people? The rest of the book is mostly harmless situations where we're constantly asked to remark "wow, those guys are so high!" Basically, I was hoping for a little more insight, and a little less condescension.

I also read a collection of Thoreau's writing. On Civil Disobedience, some poetry, some diary entries. I really like that guy. I stumbled across my new sig in this book.

Started A Tale of Two Cities. About 100 pages in so far. I'm liking it.

[Mysterious Dude]

So Frankenstein is hardly anything like the movie so far (100 pages in). I keep waiting for the "main" story to start, with the castle and Igor and such, but I'm beginning to think it may never happen. He's already created a monster, but it is a surprisingly articulate monster.

[Qrazy]

I just finished two late 18th/early 19th Century books about people being perverted by religious ideals and then murdering their families. The first was Wieland, or The Transformation: An American Tale by Charles Brockden Brown, which is apparently considered the first great American novel. It focused on the instability of the human mind and of the rational basis of society, and it had a compelling mood of Gothic horror. It seemed like it was probably a major influence on Hawthorne and Melville. The second book was Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner by James Hogg, in which Satan leads a man to murder and blasphemy by preaching an extreme version of the Calvinist doctrine of salvation by grace. It was primarily satirical, unlike the wrought seriousness of Wieland, and it used a lot more literary pyrotechnics (e.g. an unreliable narrator, multiple versions of events, an epistolary structure) and more directly studied the consequences of perverting Christian theology. Both books were really good.



Have you gotten around to reading Jimmy Corrigan yet?

Not yet I started Anna Karenina actually. I've decided I need to make it and Ulysses priorities.

[Grouchy]

So Frankenstein is hardly anything like the movie so far (100 pages in). I keep waiting for the "main" story to start, with the castle and Igor and such, but I'm beginning to think it may never happen. He's already created a monster, but it is a surprisingly articulate monster.
It's never gonna happen. Don't expect fucking Igor. Instead, delight in one of the best Gothic Horrors ever written.

And yes, the monster is able to talk and read. It's nothing like the James Whale adaptation.

[Winston*]

Rabbit Angstrom, what a fucking arsehole.

[Benny Profane]

Rabbit Angstrom, what a fucking arsehole.

Isn't he great?

[Winston*]

Isn't he great?

Man, reading Rabbit, Run he made me angrier than I think it's healthy to be at a fictional character. Think I'll hold off on the sequels for a bit.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished The New York Trilogy tonight. It's safe to say I'll be reading more Auster in the future. That was quite an experience. The way he plays with reality, constantly questioning identity and existence, is intoxicating. It took me a bit to crack into the first story, but once I did I couldn't stop reading, all the way through The Locked Room. I'm truly impressed.

Not sure what I'll read next.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Man, reading Rabbit, Run he made me angrier than I think it's healthy to be at a fictional character. Think I'll hold off on the sequels for a bit.

This type of reaction demands that I read Rabbit, Run next.

[Benny Profane]

This type of reaction demands that I read Rabbit, Run next.

About time.

[Kurosawa Fan]

About time.

I can never make you happy, can I?

[Benny Profane]

I can never make you happy, can I?

You shut me out.

[Kurosawa Fan]

You shut me out.

WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?!?

[Benny Profane]

WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?!?

We've been over this and over this. You'll never get it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

We've been over this and over this. You'll never get it.

You've changed. You're not the same man I met four years ago.

[Duncan]

I finished A Tale of Two Cities. I thought it was excellent. Dickens is terrific with metaphors. The grindstone, the footsteps in the street, the endless knitting - I liked all that stuff. The very last twist regarding Madame Defarge was too much. I wish she had just been a fervent supporter of the Republic rather than being spurred on by personal motives. Otherwise it was very moving. Sacrifice, man. It gets me every time.

I hope to quickly read The Great Gatsby, then start either The Idiot or Mason & Dixon as my next big book.

[dreamdead]

Finished The New York Trilogy tonight. It's safe to say I'll be reading more Auster in the future. That was quite an experience. The way he plays with reality, constantly questioning identity and existence, is intoxicating. It took me a bit to crack into the first story, but once I did I couldn't stop reading, all the way through The Locked Room. I'm truly impressed.


Yeah, Auster really came into his own by the last novella in the trilogy. Whereas the first book is very much a celebration of various postmodern ideas of alienation and the fragmented self, but rather devoid of characters, the last book had three-dimensionality and true artistic explorations of character. If you haven't already checked 'em out, I'd recommend Leviathan and The Book of Illusions, as they're Auster's best beyond the trilogy. The former explores individualism, liberty, and questions notions of terrorism on landmarks (written back in '92/93), so it's not a cash-in, while the latter identifies the link between film and literature, with heavy emphasis on authorship and self-sacrifice for one's art. Good stuff, both; the rest of his work never quite came up to those levels of artistry in my eyes.

[Benny Profane]

I hope to quickly read The Great Gatsby, then start either The Idiot or Mason & Dixon as my next big book.

Glad to see that Mason & Dixon is on your radar as I don't know anyone else who has read it. It's my favorite Pynchon.

In the future, if you or anyone is looking for a big book to read, The Executioner's Song is absolutely amazing and definitely one of the best books I've ever read. For those who don't know it's the true story of Gary Gilmore, a guy with a 130 IQ and a brilliant artist who spent most of his life in prison, was released in 1976 and murdered two people. He was sentenced to death, and rather than appeal the sentence, he fought hard to accept his punishment. A lot of interest groups like the ACLU stepped in and created a whole media circus with movie deals, interviews, and a whole legal obstacle course for the lawyers and judges. It's told in a very blunt, straightforward style by Mailer and it never felt it's length. I read it in under 2 weeks.

Now reading "Interpreter of Maladies" which is very overrated so far.

[Mara]

Just started an Eleanor Roosevelt biography, which is fascinating so far. Also picked up a Chabon and a Gaiman I haven't read yet... although I can't remember the names.

Oh, and, just for the record, I didn't like Frankenstein the book at all. I found it dull, implausible, and overwrought.

[Duncan]

Finished The Great Gatsby. It was great.

[Sven]

Finished The Great Gatsby. It was great.

Used to be my favorite book. Then it was Moby Dick. Now it is Midnight's Children. Never thought Rushdie would overtake Melville, but bam... there it is.

[D_Davis]

I recently started Living Buddha, Living Christ by Nhat Hanh. It is very good. He reminds me of the Buddhist counterpart to Thomas Merton, and it was cool to discover recently that they were good friends. What I would have given to sit down with both of these men.

[Sven]

I have to read the entirety of Plato's Republic by next Monday. Goodbye happiness, hello loneliness, I wish I were dead.

Luckily it appears to be a lot of:

A: So if A, then B, right?
B: Apparently.
A: So if B, then we can deduce C, no?
B: If you say so, dude.

So hopefully it'll be a quicker read than anticipated.

[EvilShoe]

I'm halfway through The World According To Garp for the moment. Anyone else read it? I must say it's a very entertaining book so far, although I do wonder if it'll stay with me for a long time. It sometimes feels as if it reads a bit too easy.

Anything else by Irving worth reading?

[Duncan]

200 pages into Mason & Dixon. Liking it a lot so far. Funnier than Gravity's Rainbow or V.

"The Victim of a Cheese malevolent." Great line. I wonder why he didn't capitalize 'malevolent'?

[Duncan]

I also read about half of The Baghavad Gita last night. Pretty cool so far. I love these little chats with deities.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished Rabbit, Run. I'm a bit mixed. I liked the novel, and I can't wait to read more Updike. There are certain writers who, while I'm reading them, describe something in a way I never would have thought of myself, but which is immediately familiar to me, and clicks in an eye-opening way. It always puts a smile on my face. Updike is one of those writers. His descriptions are amazing, even moreso when you consider his drastic transitions from the simple dialogue of Rabbit and Janice and Ruth.

The book is mostly wonderful. Updike delves into all of his characters, finding depth that makes them feel real. All, that is, except for Rabbit. My problem with the book is that, I would have rather spent the novel reading about every other character outside of Rabbit. Rabbit is shallow. He feels shallow. He chases tail and evades responsibility. I'm not saying there isn't any depth to him. He's in that point of his life where he's afraid of the direction it's heading, and he wants desperately to hang on to the days of his youth, when he felt confident and important. I guess what I'm saying is that, frankly, that part of life isn't terribly interesting to me. Eccles is interesting. A man trying to be confident in his religion, struggling to find a connection with the young people around him, loving their youth and vitality while having a hard time loving his wife and daughters with the same passion. Janice is interesting. A girl without much in the way of book smarts, but who's smarter than most give her credit for, who lived in the shadow of a successful and cold father, and a demanding and judgemental mother, and who's struggling to break free of that weight around her neck, but who has no hope of doing so. Tothero, Ruth, Eccles wife, the Angstroms, etc. These are far more interesting characters than Rabbit. He has his moments, especially with the birth of Rebecca and the events that take place afterward. He shows flashes of becoming something deeper, something more interesting. But he never rises above a certain level for me, and so it was difficult spending so much time in his mind.

I was really anxious to read the other Rabbit novels, so much so that I was considering reading them in succession (after a certain obligation I must fulfill), until the conclusion of the book. It was a natural conclusion, and probably the most honest way to wrap things up, but it made me far less interested to invest myself in his life a second time. Loved the writing, didn't care much for the title character, and therefore liked (instead of loved) the novel itself. Still, I'll be reading more Updike in the future, that's for sure.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Oh, and that obligation I speak of is to my wife, whom I promised that if she read The Road, I would read a book of her choosing. I'm dreading it, but hoping she recommends me something with my taste in mind and not just her own. We shall see.

[Winston*]

So you agree then KF, that Rabbit Angstrom is a worthless cunt of a man who deserves to be bludgeoned repeatedly in the genitals?

[Ezee E]

Oh, and that obligation I speak of is to my wife, whom I promised that if she read The Road, I would read a book of her choosing. I'm dreading it, but hoping she recommends me something with my taste in mind and not just her own. We shall see.
How much did she like it? That may have some influence.

[Kurosawa Fan]

So you agree then KF, that Rabbit Angstrom is a worthless cunt of a man who deserves to be bludgeoned repeatedly in the genitals?

Abso-friggin-lutely.

[Kurosawa Fan]

How much did she like it? That may have some influence.

She really liked it. Didn't love it, was a little put off by the repetition in the beginning, but liked it a lot and is anticipating the movie.

[Ezee E]

She really liked it. Didn't love it, was a little put off by the repetition in the beginning, but liked it a lot and is anticipating the movie.
The repetition is interesting to me, because while it was annoying, I kept on reading and reading, knowing that something would happen eventually.

And when things did happen...

Jees, I can't wait to see how they approach the movie.

[Sven]

Plato's Republic is balls.

Wait, does "balls" mean "bad"? If so, yeah. Balls. Hated it and its entire family, massive philosophical import be damned.

[Qrazy]

I'm halfway through The World According To Garp for the moment. Anyone else read it? I must say it's a very entertaining book so far, although I do wonder if it'll stay with me for a long time. It sometimes feels as if it reads a bit too easy.

Anything else by Irving worth reading?

A Prayer for Owen Meany as long as you can swallow the Jesus allegory.

[Qrazy]

Plato's Republic is balls.

Wait, does "balls" mean "bad"? If so, yeah. Balls. Hated it and its entire family, massive philosophical import be damned.

Ehh...

[Kurosawa Fan]

So my wife has chosen Charity Girl by Michael Lowenthal. It's a historical fiction of sorts, about a time during WWI when young women were being incarcerated for having sex with soldiers in an effort to prevent venereal disease. I'd be more excited if it were historical non-fiction, but it seems to have been praised by some reputable critics and was an Editor's Choice by the New York Times Book Review (whatever significance that holds), so I'm cautiously optimistic.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'm still waiting for Benny to pop up and tear me down for not outright loving one of his favorite novels. I see you're online Benny. Take a moment away from the game and tell me why I'm wrong. I know you want to.

[Sven]

Ehh...

You're just not trying anymore. :P

[Benny Profane]

I'm still waiting for Benny to pop up and tear me down for not outright loving one of his favorite novels. I see you're online Benny. Take a moment away from the game and tell me why I'm wrong. I know you want to.

My head is spinning from a hangover and all the work I have to do today. I'll check back later.

[Qrazy]

You're just not trying anymore. :P

Indeed.

[Malickfan]

Reading The Long Trial of Nolan Dugatti by Stephen Graham Jones...what he ended up writing in that 3-Day novel writing contest last year.

After that, I will read Twilight by William Gay. No vampires in this one.

[Malickfan]

Anyone read Zeroville by Steve Erickson? Since you all love film, I highly recommend reading it. It was a blast to read. Has one of my favorite characters in Vikar who is someone who isn't all the way there but he LOVES film. Has a tattoo on the side of his bald head of a scene from A Place In The Sun. Moves to LA right when the Manson murders take place. Becomes an editor and goes through the 70's and early 80's of Hollywood.

Please trust me on this.

[Grouchy]

Plato's Republic is balls.

Wait, does "balls" mean "bad"? If so, yeah. Balls. Hated it and its entire family, massive philosophical import be damned.
Negative raped for not reading it properly.

[Benny Profane]

Finished Rabbit, Run. I'm a bit mixed. I liked the novel, and I can't wait to read more Updike. There are certain writers who, while I'm reading them, describe something in a way I never would have thought of myself, but which is immediately familiar to me, and clicks in an eye-opening way. It always puts a smile on my face. Updike is one of those writers. His descriptions are amazing, even moreso when you consider his drastic transitions from the simple dialogue of Rabbit and Janice and Ruth.

The book is mostly wonderful. Updike delves into all of his characters, finding depth that makes them feel real. All, that is, except for Rabbit. My problem with the book is that, I would have rather spent the novel reading about every other character outside of Rabbit. Rabbit is shallow. He feels shallow. He chases tail and evades responsibility. I'm not saying there isn't any depth to him. He's in that point of his life where he's afraid of the direction it's heading, and he wants desperately to hang on to the days of his youth, when he felt confident and important. I guess what I'm saying is that, frankly, that part of life isn't terribly interesting to me. Eccles is interesting. A man trying to be confident in his religion, struggling to find a connection with the young people around him, loving their youth and vitality while having a hard time loving his wife and daughters with the same passion. Janice is interesting. A girl without much in the way of book smarts, but who's smarter than most give her credit for, who lived in the shadow of a successful and cold father, and a demanding and judgemental mother, and who's struggling to break free of that weight around her neck, but who has no hope of doing so. Tothero, Ruth, Eccles wife, the Angstroms, etc. These are far more interesting characters than Rabbit. He has his moments, especially with the birth of Rebecca and the events that take place afterward. He shows flashes of becoming something deeper, something more interesting. But he never rises above a certain level for me, and so it was difficult spending so much time in his mind.

I was really anxious to read the other Rabbit novels, so much so that I was considering reading them in succession (after a certain obligation I must fulfill), until the conclusion of the book. It was a natural conclusion, and probably the most honest way to wrap things up, but it made me far less interested to invest myself in his life a second time. Loved the writing, didn't care much for the title character, and therefore liked (instead of loved) the novel itself. Still, I'll be reading more Updike in the future, that's for sure.

First of all, glad your reaction is, for the most part it seems, quite positive. Whole-heartedly agree that Updike has masterful control over the language and narrative and I like what you said about the way he describes things that are familiar but making you see it in a different light.

That said, How to respond to this when I so fundamentally reject your complaints. If a character is shallow, then he should be portrayed as being shallow. Rabbit is shallow, so he's written that way. If you don't like reading about shallow people, what can you do. Personally, I don't think I have to like the main character, or have them rise to a certain level by the end, in order to find him interesting. And I found Rabbit very interesting. He's an anti-hero so there isn't going to be much arc for him. Reminds me of Benny Profane in V. when a character asks him towards the end what he's learned on all his travels and he replies "offhand I'd say I haven't learned a goddamn thing". To me, this rings just as true as the other way around.

Updike uses Rabbit's personality deficiencies as a commentary on all around him, and we see the effect such a personality can have on other's lives. Who tries to help him, who needs him, who rejects him, etc. It's just a different window through which we see the world.

By the way, it's been over 4 years since I read the original but have read the sequels one per year since.

At least tell me you found the chapter in which the baby drowns to be one of the best things you've ever read in your life.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I guess I have a hard time believing that people are truly shallow. I always feel like people who appear shallow are really covering for insecurities. Perhaps that's my problem. It's not about him being likable. Ignatious J. Reilly isn't exactly a likable person and he's one of my favorite characters in literature. I guess it's that I never felt like I got past the surface with Rabbit, and I felt that, especially with the way he reacted to the birth of his daughter and visiting Janice in the hospital, there was more to him than what Updike was giving us. I do like what you say about Rabbit merely existing as a window for those around us. Perhaps I'll try to view it from that perspective when I eventually tackle the other novels.

As for the chapter you speak of, you have no need to worry. It's among the most affecting moments in a novel I've ever read.

[Benny Profane]

I just read what I wrote and cannot believe my writing skills have diminished that much over the years. That reply was a monstrosity.

If you read the sequels, mathematically I'd say it goes Rest > Run > Rich > Redux.

So you have to wait til the end for the best but it's worth it. The two in between are also great but just not quite as great.

[Duncan]

Read the Baghavad Gita. I liked the early parts a lot. There's the same tension between individual Self and whole Self that I really liked from the Upanishads. Then towards the end it's kind of just Krisha bragging about how awesome he is. It's almost childish.

Half way through Mason & Dixon. Liking it a lot.

[Malickfan]

Half way through Mason & Dixon. Liking it a lot.

I mentioned Stephen Graham Jones earlier in the week. When he was going for his PHD, he read both Mason & Dixon and Infinite Jest in one week.

Unreal.

[Duncan]

I mentioned Stephen Graham Jones earlier in the week. When he was going for his PHD, he read both Mason & Dixon and Infinite Jest in one week.

Unreal.

If you don't have a day job that seems pretty doable. It'd be about 250 pages per day. There were times in university (finals week comes to mind...) that I'd read 300 pages a day to study.

[Malickfan]

Yeah, he doesn't think he could do that ever again. I know I couldn't. I read slow.

[Milky Joe]

Yeah, he doesn't think he could do that ever again. I know I couldn't. I read slow.

Seriously. I don't see how you could do that (barring immense genius and/or amphetaminic support) and properly absorb more than 25% of either novel.

[Mara]

I read very, very quickly. People always accuse me of not "getting" everything in a book, but I feel like I do.

By the way, I'm now on the second volume of that Eleanor Roosevelt biography, and so solidly into the White House years. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Blanche Wiesen Cook has gotten around to Volume Three yet, and most of what really interests me about Eleanor happens in her later years. I may have to switch biographers, which would be sad.

[Mara]

Also, even though Eleanor Roosevelt built my town, apparently it wasn't high enough on her list of accomplishments to rate a mention in this book.

I realize she's a busy lady, but c'mon. It's a freaking town.

[Mysterious Dude]

I am currently reading Cyrano de Bergerac's Journey to the Moon. I bet you didn't know that the Garden of Eden was on the moon, and that on the moon, people walk on all fours and eat by smelling.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I am currently reading Cyrano de Bergerac's Journey to the Moon. I bet you didn't know that the Garden of Eden was on the moon, and that on the moon, people walk on all fours and eat by smelling.

Actually I was aware of this. What else you got?

[Melville]

Read the Baghavad Gita. I liked the early parts a lot. There's the same tension between individual Self and whole Self that I really liked from the Upanishads. Then towards the end it's kind of just Krisha bragging about how awesome he is. It's almost childish.
It's interesting that eastern religions and philosophies tend to stress self-abnegation in one form or another, while western religions and philosophies tend to stress the Self engaging in the world. What's up with that? Anyway, I like how Buddhism appears as a progression of the Baghavad Gita's notion of Self: while the Baghavad Gita says that the engaged-in-the-world-Self is a form of self-alienation that must be held at a distance in order to attain one's true, unified Self, Buddhism says that even the unified Self is an illusion that must be overcome. (The Mahabarata, the epic poem that contains the Baghavad Gita, also makes for an interesting comparison with the Iliad, especially in its contrasting ideas about morality and "great men", but also in its treatment of myth—compared to the thumb-sized gods and invincible heroes of the Mahabarata, the Iliad comes off as the height of realism.)

Also, Krishna isn't bragging; he's just telling it like it is. He is awesome. After all, he can become death, the destroyer of worlds, at will.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished Charity Girl. Wasn't a bad book, but through the whole thing I just kept wishing that I was reading a nonfiction account of this period in our history, rather than some dramatized reenactment. Lowenthal isn't much for style. His writing is very plain, even in description. Still, it held my attention, and I whipped through it in a few true days of reading. Plus, the ending was much better than I thought it would be which was a nice surprise. He listed a few books in his Author's Note that are nonfiction on the subject of women being detained for VD, so I'm going to look into those and possibly pick one up.

I think I'm going to read The Quiet American by Greene next. Iosos got me excited about it, and considering my love for Greene, it seems a logical next step.

[D_Davis]

It's interesting that eastern religions and philosophies tend to stress self-abnegation in one form or another, while western religions and philosophies tend to stress the Self engaging in the world. What's up with that?

Nhat Hanh argues that these two differing ideas are more similar than most people think. As soon as I get to the crux of his argument, I'll have more to say on this.

[Duncan]

Nhat Hanh argues that these two differing ideas are more similar than most people think. As soon as I get to the crux of his argument, I'll have more to say on this.

I've actually been thinking about it a lot the last couple days. My conclusion is that it's really complicated.

I was surmising though, from what I've read of Being and Time, that Heidegger's ideas on Dasein being spatial and de-severance could be interpreted in ways analogous to at least some of the earlier sections of the Bhagavad Gita. But that would probably require a dissertation to argue convincingly so...

[Sven]

so...

So DO IT.

[Duncan]

Anyway, I like how Buddhism appears as a progression of the Baghavad Gita's notion of Self: while the Baghavad Gita says that the engaged-in-the-world-Self is a form of self-alienation that must be held at a distance in order to attain one's true, unified Self, Buddhism says that even the unified Self is an illusion that must be overcome. I think I see the Bhagavad Gita's notion of the ideal Self as more like ultimate engagement with the world to the point where the engagement requires no effort and everything is without the raging passions our not-wholly-engaged-Self has. And then since you're so wholly engaged that previous Self is shed and becomes a unified-with-the-world-Self...or something.


(The Mahabarata, the epic poem that contains the Baghavad Gita, also makes for an interesting comparison with the Iliad, especially in its contrasting ideas about morality and "great men", but also in its treatment of myth—compared to the thumb-sized gods and invincible heroes of the Mahabarata, the Iliad comes off as the height of realism.) Have you read the whole thing? Isn't it like 2000 pages long?


Also, Krishna isn't bragging; he's just telling it like it is. He is awesome. After all, he can become death, the destroyer of worlds, at will. That line wasn't in the translation I read! So mad about that. I heard Oppenheimer translated the text himself. That's more than a little impressive.

[Duncan]

Man, I am absolutely terrible at spelling Indian names. It's really embarassing.

[D_Davis]

I've actually been thinking about it a lot the last couple days. My conclusion is that it's really complicated.


I think this is a good conclusion.

:)

As for myself, I am just now starting down this particular path, and I am under no false pretense that I understand it, at all, but I am fascinated by the possibility of a greater understanding.

[Melville]

Nhat Hanh argues that these two differing ideas are more similar than most people think. As soon as I get to the crux of his argument, I'll have more to say on this.
I think that Mahayana Buddhism, Taoism, and (at least some interpretations of) Christianity definitely make them very similar. But I don't think the extreme examples of them, exemplified at the Western end by the kind of philosophy espoused in, say, Homer's work (or Nietzsche's philosophy) and at the Eastern end by something like Theravada Buddhism, can be said to be at all similar (unless one argues that they are both wrong precisely because they deny their similarity).


I was surmising though, from what I've read of Being and Time, that Heidegger's ideas on Dasein being spatial and de-severance could be interpreted in ways analogous to at least some of the earlier sections of the Bhagavad Gita. But that would probably require a dissertation to argue convincingly so...
I tend to interpret everything in terms of Heidegger, so I'm with you there.


I think I see the Bhagavad Gita's notion of the ideal Self as more like ultimate engagement with the world to the point where the engagement requires no effort and everything is without the raging passions our not-wholly-engaged-Self has. And then since you're so wholly engaged that previous Self is shed and becomes a unified-with-the-world-Self...or something.
Hm...that's not at all what I got out of it. I thought the idea was to have no engagement, to act strictly according to rules of honor, or whatever, without having any attachment to one's actions. (In terms of Heidegger, this is a complete abnegation of one's being, since being is care.) Once you are unattached to the world, you become your unified, heavenly Self...and then, I suppose, you are engaged in the world, but in a more pure way where you don't conflate your own concerns with it. (And in terms of Heidegger, this could be seen as a route to authenticity.) But I seem to recall that once you become unattached, your cycle of reincarnation comes to an end, and you reach heaven as your unified Self, which would seem to go against the whole engagement in the world thing (unless you listen to those Mahayana guys). Am I misremembering that part?


Have you read the whole thing? Isn't it like 2000 pages long?
Hah...No, I read the 350-page abridged version (which included only part of the Baghavad Gita, which I then had to read separately on its own, in a version which didn't contain Oppenheimer's line, which made me mad as well). Apparently the full version contains lots of stuff like recipes for herbal
remedies, so I don't think I'd have the patience to read the whole thing. And I couldn't even find a full translation when I wanted to buy one.

[Winston*]

Reading the Bob Dylan autobiography atm. Enjoying it a lot. Love the way it's structured.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Reading the Bob Dylan autobiography atm. Enjoying it a lot. Love the way it's structured.

Nice try. This is only worthy of rep when you finish and still give a glowing review.

[Ezee E]

Nice try. This is only worthy of rep when you finish and still give a glowing review.
Yeah. The only time Winston gets rep from me is for the lulz.

He provides many of them at least.

[Watashi]

So far I'm currently reading City of Ember, Blood Meridian, The Road, and The Film Club.

The Film Club is awesome. Does it get talked a lot in here? It seems it was made for the ultimate film buff.

[Malickfan]

So far I'm currently reading City of Ember, Blood Meridian, The Road, and The Film Club.

How?

[D_Davis]

I can only read one fiction, and one non-fiction book at a time. Often times I get confused as to which is which.

[Malickfan]

Four books is way too much for me...especially when two of them are The Road and Blood Meridian.

[Watashi]

I'm reading them one at a time.

[Winston*]

I'm reading them one at a time.

Then what do you mean by "currently reading"?

[Watashi]

Then what do you mean by "currently reading"?

As in books I have in my possession.

[Malickfan]

As in books I have in my possession.


That could lead to carpal tunnel.

[Ezee E]

I'm reading them one at a time.
Do you get to be a Borders Recommendation person at your store?

[Qrazy]

I actually do jump between books quite a bit. I often have 3-4 in rotation... still in the process of finishing up Walden II (I think I blind recommended this to Melville once... don't read it, it's crap)... reading Anna Karenina... John Broome's Weighing Lives (for class)... and a collection of Eugene O'Neil plays.

[Duncan]

still in the process of finishing up Walden II (I think I blind recommended this to Melville once... don't read it, it's crap Man, nothing about that book appeals to me.

Sometimes I'll get in a 2 or 3 book rotation, but mostly I keep it to 1.

[Benny Profane]

Interpreter of Maladies is highly overrated. Joseph Pulitzer must be rolling in his grave.

Now reading Brideshead Revisited. I can only hope it's as good as A Handful of Dust.

[Qrazy]

Man, nothing about that book appeals to me.

Sometimes I'll get in a 2 or 3 book rotation, but mostly I keep it to 1.

BF Skinner is no novelist... although it's interesting to see how transposing theories of behaviorism onto a writing style makes for some terrible literature. It sort of intuitively demonstrates the central flaws with the theory in the first place.

[Kurosawa Fan]

The Film Club is awesome. Does it get talked a lot in here? It seems it was made for the ultimate film buff.

My thoughts, from a few pages ago:


I finished The Film Club already. Very short book, one I was ready to write off after 50 pages due to some really poor writing and general corniness. However, as the book progresses Gilmour finds direction and the story becomes much more engrossing. He's still prone to some unbearable analogies and "metaphors", but he's very honest about his experience and being a father of two sons it was interesting to say the least. Not sorry I read it, but I wouldn't really recommend it either.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Now reading Brideshead Revisited. I can only hope it's as good as A Handful of Dust.

My wife bought this a few weeks ago and I was thinking of reading it next. I'll be interested to see what you thought of it.

[Winston*]

Finished the Bob Dylan autobiography. Enjoyed it a lot. Loved the way it's structured.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished the Bob Dylan autobiography. Enjoyed it a lot. Loved the way it's structured.

And thus, rep has been bestowed upon you.

[Winston*]

And thus, rep has been bestowed upon you.

Especially dug how digressiony it is. Like when he starts talking about seeing Mickey Rourke in a movie and how awesome he is or how fantastic Elton John's pinball table looked in a magazine article. Love it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Especially dug how digressiony it is. Like when he starts talking about seeing Mickey Rourke in a movie and how awesome he is or how fantastic Elton John's pinball table looked in a magazine article. Love it.

Take the foot off the gas pedal pal, the rep was already issued.

[Winston*]

Also, Kurosawa Fan is an excellent husband and father with a charming family and the best damn bird keeping store in the state of Michigan.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Also, Kurosawa Fan is an excellent husband and father with a charming family and the best damn bird keeping store in the state of Michigan.

*sigh*

Alright, one more rep. But that's it.

[EvilShoe]

75 pages into Tristram Shandy, and I still have to force myself to read it... I can't call it a bad book, as it's frequently funny but me and it just don't click.
I'll probably lay it down for a while, and start with something else.

[thefourthwall]

I think I'm going to read The Quiet American by Greene next. Iosos got me excited about it, and considering my love for Greene, it seems a logical next step.

I read this last year and loved it, but sadly, it's the only Greene I've read (although The End of the Affair has been waiting on my shelf for a looooong time). I love how he deals with morality in the modern world.

If anyone's read more of him, what are the favs?



Now reading Brideshead Revisited. I can only hope it's as good as A Handful of Dust.

When I was in junior high, I thought about reading this because it was on some Modern Library Classic Best list or some such. However, I kept thinking that "Revisited" meant it was some sort of sequel or re-written story, so I waited until I could find the first/original, which I couldn't--very frustrating.

Many years later when I looked at the book again, I realized my error, hehe.

Brideshead Revisited is marvelous. Waugh at the top of his game showing the end of the aristocracy in England and the lingering tensions between Protestants and Catholics along with some keen insight into WWI.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I read this last year and loved it, but sadly, it's the only Greene I've read (although The End of the Affair has been waiting on my shelf for a looooong time). I love how he deals with morality in the modern world.

If anyone's read more of him, what are the favs?


He's one of my favorite authors. My favorites of his, in an ever-changing order:

The Power and the Glory
Brighton Rock
The End of the Affair
The Tenth Man


The only thing I've read by him that I haven't much cared for was The Heart of the Matter.

[EvilShoe]

Gave up on Tristram Shandy for now, and opted for Catch 22 instead. 30 pages in, and already enjoying this a lot.

Are the sequels (or is one a prequel?) any good, or should I just skip them?

[Malickfan]

Yossarian Lives!

Haven't read the sequel...Closing Time it's called?

[Kurosawa Fan]

The Quiet American was brilliant. The best Graham Greene novel I've read, and among the best books I've ever read, period. This is why I read as often as I do, to experience something like this. It was incredibly relevant, especially in this political climate. There are so many passages I'd love to quote if I had a photographic memory. The last paragraph of the novel is just crushing. This is one of those books that I'm going to make a point to read over and over in my life. Seriously, anyone who is looking for something to read, grab this book immediately. It's very short, but packs an incredible amount of depth in those pages. I'm just stunned.

I don't even know what to read next, because I feel like whatever I read it's going to disappoint me.

[Duncan]

I finished Mason & Dixon a couple days ago. One of the best books I'ver ever read. Right up there with Gravity's Rainbow. Probably funnier overall, and definitely more openly compassionate with regards to its characters. I laughed at how he has characters call out the narrator on his more Romantick comments, almost like Pynchon was reluctant to write so sentimentally but decided to anyway. I like that. It's one of the better accounts of male friendship I've encountered. Almost like Altman's California Split.

So many hilarious and sad creations. The Learned English Dog, the mechanical duck, Timothy Tox's Golem, Timothy Tox himself (author of the Pennsylvaniad, often quoted).

Loved his reflections on time, memory and conscience. Some seriously profound stuff related with wit and inimical prose. Also loved the idea of an imperfect return. (Hey Benny, do you remember the first time this came up? It's mentioned near the end and I know he mentioned it earlier but now I can't place it.)

I also consistenly find that, though the ideas may be different, I recognize myself in his thought patterns - in how he sees so much in spatial/temporal relationships (like the line's onward perfection or the rocket's arc) and witnesses moral depth in the abstract or inert. It's a mind I feel at home in, even if it is intimidating.


Started Beyond Good and Evil last night.

[Kurosawa Fan]

:|

What the fuck do you think you're doing? You don't come on here and brag about one of the best books you've ever read right after I've just finished doing the same thing. You're like the Kanye West of this thread, jumping into other people's limelight. Take a backseat Duncan. Wait for your own moment.

[Duncan]

:|

What the fuck do you think you're doing? You don't come on here and brag about one of the best books you've ever read right after I've just finished doing the same thing. You're like the Kanye West of this thread, jumping into other people's limelight. Take a backseat Duncan. Wait for your own moment.

KF doesn't care about black people.

[Kurosawa Fan]

KF doesn't care about black people.

Awww, HELL NO!!!

[Duncan]

Btw, I wikipedia-ed and made a mental note of The Quiet American. Sounds good. I'll be on the lookout for it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Btw, I wikipedia-ed and made a mental note of The Quiet American. Sounds good. I'll be on the lookout for it.

Hmm. Decent damage control. I'll accept it for now. But keep in mind, I don't let shit like this pass.

[Malickfan]

I don't even know what to read next, because I feel like whatever I read it's going to disappoint me.

Zeroville by Steve Erickson. It should be required reading on this board.

[D_Davis]

I don't even know what to read next, because I feel like whatever I read it's going to disappoint me.

I know the feeling. After finishing Thomas Ligotti's Teatro Grottesco, everything else seems trite.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Zeroville by Steve Erickson. It should be required reading on this board.

I still have this on my "to read" list, but I don't have it in my possession, so I'll have to pass for now.

I'm going to go with The Time Traveler's Wife. It's something fluffy and (apparently) very romantic, so I think it'll be a nice change for now, and I won't be expecting another experience like Greene just gave me, instead just hoping for a pleasant read. That or I might read another Michael Connelly book. He's always fun.

[Malickfan]

I still have this on my "to read" list, but I don't have it in my possession, so I'll have to pass for now.

At least it's on your list. You won't regret it when that time comes.

The definitive fiction book for film junkies.

[Silencio]

I still have this on my "to read" list, but I don't have it in my possession, so I'll have to pass for now.

I'm going to go with The Time Traveler's Wife. It's something fluffy and (apparently) very romantic, so I think it'll be a nice change for now, and I won't be expecting another experience like Greene just gave me, instead just hoping for a pleasant read. That or I might read another Michael Connelly book. He's always fun.It's an easy enough read, if that's what you mean by pleasant and fluffy, but it's certainly not the happiest of stories, quite the opposite in fact. Romantic, yes, but also deeply sad.

[EvilShoe]

Yossarian Lives!

Haven't read the sequel...Closing Time it's called?
That's the one.
Is anything else by Heller even worth reading?

[Benny Profane]

Someone I don't really know too well said I would like Christopher Buckley novels. Anyone have some thoughts on him?

[Malickfan]

That's the one.
Is anything else by Heller even worth reading?

I personally never read any. I've heard some good things from people about Something Happened and Closing Time.

Found this quote on Heller when he was being interviewed...

Told by an interviewer that he had never produced anything else as good as Catch-22, Heller famously responded, "Who has?"

[Philosophe_rouge]

I finished reading Leonard Cohen's Beautiful Losers, my first novel in what seems like years (more like 9 months). I was completely enthralled, I usually find experimental novels too self-indulgent and often impennetreable, but this one feels so raw and human. For a moment it reminds me of the work of the beat poets, especially Kerouac’s On the Road, but subdued and more introspective. It’s an exploration of relationships and interaction, history and the self. It typifies Canadian literature, without being obvious or clear. It’s a search for identity, and warmth. The protagonist working to survive each day, his best friend F living a life too big for any man is crushed by his own spirit and the unnamed narrator’s wife, who is doomed from the onset, unable to connect with a world that has already cut her short. Wildly explorative, sensual and experimental, the book is one of those rare pieces of art that seems to hit a stride of consciousness that replicates the logic of thoughts and dreams. It’s just free. I love it's focus on the body and the spirit, tying it with both sex and religion. Bringing the past into the present. I want to just re-read it all over again because I felt I missed so much. Absolutely wonderful.

[Sycophant]

Hi. Sarah Vowell's new book is out today. I just realized that. I can barely contain my excitement for visiting the book store after work tonight.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Hi. Sarah Vowell's new book is out today. I just realized that. I can barely contain my excitement for visiting the book store after work tonight.

I saw her on Letterman last night. She was great. Compelled me to make Take the Cannoli my next read (it'll be my first Vowell book).

[Sycophant]

I saw her on Letterman last night. She was great. Compelled me to make Take the Cannoli my next read (it'll be my first Vowell book).

It's a rather exquisite read. Hope you like it.

My bastard bookstore didn't receive their shipment today. Goddammit.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished The Time Traveler's Wife tonight. It was entertaining, but I'm not as in love with it as most seem to be. I found Niffenegger to be a moderate writer at best, and frankly, some sections were unforgivably bad. I found nearly all of the characters outside of Clare and Henry to be caricatures, at times offensive ones when it came to race. The plot was pretty predictable for the most part. A big event would inevitably be accompanied by Henry disappearing, and Clare worrying about him and hoping he wasn't discovered. It led to a pretty boring middle section.

Still, it was enjoyable for the most part because of how well fleshed out the love story was, and how well the gimmick of time travel worked, despite its obvious scientific flaws. Worth reading, but only recommendable if you're in need of a good love story and don't mind poor writing.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I finished The Great Gatsby. First time I read it.

Overall, the novel seemed to grow into itself, building from a serviceable travelogue into a shockingly good story. The last twenty pages contain a lot of resonance, and power, and emotion. Calling it the Great American Novel? I can't say, and I doubt I'll ever be able to say. But it was damn good.

I'll definitely be reading it again sometime in the future. For now, it's time to give Philip K. Dick

[D_Davis]

I'll definitely be reading it again sometime in the future. For now, it's time to give Philip K. Dick

Awesome. Crack in Space is one of the very few of his novels I haven't read yet. It is sitting on my to read shelf, but I want to wait. It saddens me that, sometime very soon, I will have no new PKD books to read, and so I am saving the last few for special times.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Awesome. Crack in Space is one of the very few of his novels I haven't read yet. It is sitting on my to read shelf, but I want to wait. It saddens me that, sometime very soon, I will have no new PKD books to read, and so I am saving the last few for special times.

Strangely, now would be a good time to read it. One of the main plot threads revolves around a black presidential nominee who works off a platform of renewed unity, to middling success.

[D_Davis]

Strangely, now would be a good time to read it. One of the main plot threads revolves around a black presidential nominee who works off a platform of renewed unity, to middling success.

Cool. PKD has a lot of books with a president or presidential election as a character/sub-plot. He was very concerned with the Government.

[Duncan]

Read Selected Poems by Samuel Taylor Coleridge. The early stuff wasn't that interesting. Mostly romantic musings about Nature. Really picked by the time I had gotten to stuff I had already read (Rime of the Ancient Mariner, Kubla Khan, Fears in Solitude). The later stuff was also very good, but maybe not reaching the heights of his most famous work. Exceptionally earnest poet, nowadays to the point of comedy ("woe is me" is mentioned more than once). But it's nice to read such heartfelt stuff every once in a while. Utter lack of irony.

[Malickfan]

The #1 section for stolen books at a bookstore is religion.

They're all going to hell.

[Kurosawa Fan]

The #1 section for stolen books at a bookstore is religion.

They're all going to hell.

This can't be true. I'd believe that people are grabbing other books around the store and walking to the religion section to shove them down their pants or something, seeing as religion is usually tucked away in a corner and not exactly a hot spot of activity.

[Qrazy]

I've heard the book that has the Guinness World Record for being most often stolen from libraries is... The Guinness Book of World Records.

[Malickfan]

This can't be true. I'd believe that people are grabbing other books around the store and walking to the religion section to shove them down their pants or something, seeing as religion is usually tucked away in a corner and not exactly a hot spot of activity.

At two bookstores that I have worked for, religion is the leader. Back in '96 when I worked for Brentano's, bibles were pretty much it. And now at Barnes & Noble, it's bibles and books by tv stars such as Joel Osteen and T.D. Jakes.

There was a new one released last week (can't think of the author) but we found the dust jacket in the section...the book was gone.

Sinners!

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'm floored. Doesn't that action defeat the purpose of the book? How could you walk out of the bookstore with a clear conscience? Maybe it's a prank?

[Duncan]

Maybe some well intentioned person didn't think it was right for anyone to spend money on a book by Joel Osteen, so they stole it in order to save some sap 30 bucks.

[Malickfan]

People just think that bibles should be free, period. As for the other books, I have no idea what compels them to do that. Lack of money?

[Benny Profane]

Tonight I hope to find out the answer to the age-old question: Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?




Brideshead Revisited -- I give it a 10.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Brideshead Revisited -- I give it a 10.

Anything more to add? Is it "among the best books I've read" type of 10, or just "fantastic read" 10?

[Ezee E]

Watchmen really is all it's cracked up to be. Amazing.

[thefourthwall]

Watchmen really is all it's cracked up to be. Amazing.

I'm 2/3rds of the way through and agree--it's super amazing. Unfortunately, my book club is vaguely pressuring me to catch up, so I've got to finish reading Ender's Game before finishing Watchmen.

Fortunately, Ender's Game is also pretty awesome thus far.

[Benny Profane]

Anything more to add? Is it "among the best books I've read" type of 10, or just "fantastic read" 10?

I'd say more like "fantastic read" 10. If you dig the bouts with religion that Greene's character has in The Power and the Glory, I think you will really like this. It's much better written, too.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'd say more like "fantastic read" 10. If you dig the bouts with religion that Greene's character has in The Power and the Glory, I think you will really like this. It's much better written, too.

Had to throw a cheap shot in there, didn't you?

[Duncan]

I re-read Where the Wild Things are while killing time in a book store the other day. I think maybe American foreign policy over the last 8 years was predicated on the assumption that this was non-fiction.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished Take the Cannoli tonight. Pretty great stuff. Some essays were better than others (the highlight of the collection being when Vowell learns how to drive from Ira Glass), but all were entertaining and most were insightful. I'll certainly be reading more from her in the future.

I'm undecided about what to read next. I'll figure it out tomorrow morning.

[D_Davis]

A cross post from the horror thread, but it is just too good not to mention. For those of you who don't often venture into the realms of genre fiction, but might want to check something unique out:

The Divinity Student - Michael Cisco

Just about the damned finest, most brilliant, exciting, haunting, and inventive thing I've ever read.

A total masterpiece.

127 pages of sheer literary perfection.

It begins with a guy getting struck by lightning. He dies, and is resurrected when he is cut open having his guts removed and replaced by pages of random books. He is, the Divinity Student. He is then sent on a journey to become a wordfinder, a sort of linguistic bounty hunter hunting down lost words and filling them in a ledger-like dictionary.

It is captivating. I read it one sitting because I simply couldn't put it down.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Decided to go with Wise Blood by O'Connor next. My love for "A Good Man is Hard to Find" knows no bounds, and I've always been ashamed that I haven't read anything else by her. Time to remedy!

[D_Davis]

Decided to go with Wise Blood by O'Connor next. My love for "A Good Man is Hard to Find" knows no bounds, and I've always been ashamed that I haven't read anything else by her. Time to remedy!

Wise Blood is awesome. Great movie, too.

[Duncan]

So I read Beyond Good and Evil and thought I'd drudge up this old conversation.


Inspired by my recent argument with Qrazy about Nietzsche, I decided to read Beyond Good and Evil. It was pretty great, possibly the best thing I've read by Nietzsche, and certainly the most nuanced and cogent presentation of his views. I love his criticism of the assumption of a unified Self, which he asserts is actually based on "the synthetic concept 'I'", and especially his relation of that synthesis to traditional morality, truth and language, and the will to power. Here are some choice quotes that would have been relevant to my discussion with Qrazy and Duncan:

I also think it's his most cogent writing (at least that I've read). But I like Zarathustra more. His writing there is more poetic and inspiring, even if it is less clear. Less objectionable content in Zarathustra too. Anyway, I'll go through and comment on these quotes. Don't think poorly of me if it gets a little fascist in here.


On the Ubermensch:
"The ideal of the most high-spirited, alive, and world-affirming human being who has not only come to terms and learned to get along with whatever was and is, but who wants to have what was and is repeated into all eternity, shouting insatiably 'from the beginning'—not only to himself but to the whole play and spectacle." I think this is a good ideal, one of the most appealing ideals philoshophy has offered me. I have no problems with this quote.


On everybody else:
"Their most profound desire is that the war they are should come to an end." I don't remember the context for this quote, and I find that with Nietzsche context is everything because he has a tendency to say some pretty harsh, outrageous things that only make sense within a larger framework.

That said, I am guessing this is referring to the search for absolute truth, a clear good and evil, and the "synthetic concept I." He is saying that, in general, people have a tendency to want distinctions and definitions when in fact these do not exist. The Self is actually "many souls" competing. This competition should be embraced as a creative source rather than crushing those parts of the soul we have been conditioned to find objectionable.


On politics:
1. "The vast majority of ordinary human beings exist for service and the general advantage."
2. "The democratic movement is not only a form of the decay of political organization but a form of the decay, namely the diminution, of man, making him mediocre."
3. "More after my heart—I mean such an increase in the menace of Russia that Europe would have to resolve to become menacing, too, namely, to acquire one will by means of a new caste that would rule Europe, a long, terrible, will of its own that would be able to cast its goals millenia hence... The time for petty politics is over: the very next century will bring the fight for the dominion of the earth."

1. This is, without a doubt, the reason Nietzsche is offensive to many readers. That's a hell of a statement that can be interpeted many ways. In the worst sense it could mean embracing Slavery on a literal level for the sake of a few Napoleons. Based on a few passages from Zarathustra that seem defiantly anti-Fascist, I don't think this is the case.

In the best sense it could mean that "mediocre" people support civilization so that the best examples of humanity may produce those higher thoughts and evoke those higher emotions that, while inhabited, distinguish and exalt the rest of us. These are the moments that make life worth living and so all those mediocre people actually serve a vital, important role.

The question I would raise here is: are these actually the moments that make life worth living? And don't those mediocre people encounter such high moments when they glance at their children, or, perhaps, when they are struck by the pattern of bark on a tree? Goethe was certainly a great person who produced great works, but are his works the most important end that civilization can achieve?

2. I can form no concensus on where Nietzsche stands politically. His philosophy at times seems necessarily anarchistic, or at least individualist to the point where the individual cannot function in society without malevolence.

At certain times he writes vehemently against tyrants.

At certain times he tells us how great Napolean is.

At certain times he says stuff like this, which, though tough to swallow, is also partially true. I think the U.S. election this year proves it. 6 months ago everybody considered John McCain an honorable man. Guy sold himself to the lowest common denominator. 2 years ago I thought Barack Obama was one of the greatest public figures in my lifetime. Never had I encountered such a high profile person who wrote / spoke to thoughtfully and with such nuance. As this campaign has gone on and on he too has had to lower himself. He can't be too "elite." His speeches aren't nearly as subtle. His policies have seemed more and more pandering. I genuinely think the Democratic process has choked out a lot of Obama's best qualities.

Nietzsche goes on to write later in BGaE that Democracy is a breeding ground for tyrants. I think if you peruse history you'll find this can prove true in certain cases. Of course, despotism always produces tyrants, so...uh...

3. This seems rather prescient to me. He leaves out America, but other than that he pretty much nails it, especially if you consider the change in world order that nuclear weapons brought about.


On suffering:
"You want, if possible—and there is no more insane "if possible"—to abolish suffering. And we? It really seems that we would rather have it higher and worse than ever. Well-being as you understand it—that is no goal"
"In man creature and creator are united... Your pity is for the 'creature in man', for what must be formed, broken, forged, torn, burnt, made incandescent, and purified—that which necessarily must and should suffer."

I don't really have much to say about this. I agree that pity for the creature is misplaced. I don't think suffering should be eliminated. I believe I have seen just as deeply into the human condition during my happy times as my times of suffering. I even believe I have found joy in both.

It's certainly another one of Nietzsche's harsh sounding quotes, but at the same time I often think he's just sounding harsh for the sake of sounding harsh. He repeatedly returns to German Jews and the suffering they endure and how strong a race he considers them. He holds them higher than any other people. Why pity people who have proven that they can endure and overcome? Does he change his mind if he knew 6 million of them would be killed by Germans? I don't know.


On the will to power:
"Life itself is essentially appropriation, injury, overpowering of what is alien and weaker." There's another quote on what life essentially is near the beginning on the Stoics. I'll quote it when I get home. Once again though, I still think this is mostly a personal overcoming. I keep returning to how he holds Goethe in such high regard. Goethe was hardly a tyrant and hardly used his intellect to overpower anybody. He just seems like a complete, life-affirming person.


On master morality:
"Moralities must be forced to bow first of all before the order of rank"
"It is not the works, it is the faith that is decisive here, that determines the order of rank: some fundamental certainty that a noble soul has about itself... the noble soul has reverence for itself."

"The noble soul has reverence for itself" is actually one of my favourite quotes. I think a certain egoism is necessary. I have genuine faith that there is nobility in my soul. The closer I come to that nobility, and the more perfect my conception of it is, the easier it is to see in other people as well. Maybe that's arrogant. I don't know.


If Nietzsche's misses something then, to me, it is the small. It is the gentler, weaker parts of us that he disregards and I think provide nuances required for all "higher" work. Not that the hardness he espouses isn't also very worthwhile.

I also find reading Nietzsche very sad because he always seems borderline dishonest. All this talk of overpowering and at heart I get the feeling he's actually a romantic. He seems keenly sensitive to life's poetics and very, very lonely. Some of his writing seems prideful and violent, but also exceptionally vulnerable. I don't know if the story of his breakdown is apocryphal, but I can forgive a guy a hell of a lot if the sight of a man beating a horse is what makes his mind finally break. I think he holds people higher than almost any other philosopher, and the frustration he felt with our baseness and mediocrity
made him pretty wretched.

On the other hand, dude needs to shut the fuck up about women. I was embarrassed for him.

All told, he's one of the most challenging and compelling thinkers I know and I'm glad he wrote the things he did so that I can read them and feel the way I do when I do.

[Duncan]

I also finished The Story of Utopias by Lewis Mumford. A lot of it is just summarizing the work of others and providing brief commentary. It's best at the beginning and end when it's just him pondering things like what exactly constitutes the good society. He comes to the conclusion that there's no "exactly," naturally. An interesting read though, especially about how art and science have diverged and that's, like, killing us all or something. My good friend did his thesis on Mumford so I figured I was obliged to read something by him. I don't know if I'd recommend it to everyone else, but if you're kind of interested in the very high level workings of society and urban planning than you will probably like it.

[Melville]

I also think it's his most cogent writing (at least that I've read). But I like Zarathustra more. His writing there is more poetic and inspiring, even if it is less clear. Less objectionable content in Zarathustra too.
Zarathustra definitely has the poetic bit down pat. My major problem with it is that it's so repetitive.



On the Ubermensch:
"The ideal of the most high-spirited, alive, and world-affirming human being who has not only come to terms and learned to get along with whatever was and is, but who wants to have what was and is repeated into all eternity, shouting insatiably 'from the beginning'—not only to himself but to the whole play and spectacle." I think this is a good ideal, one of the most appealing ideals philoshophy has offered me. I have no problems with this quote.
Agreed.



On everybody else:
"Their most profound desire is that the war they are should come to an end." I don't remember the context for this quote, and I find that with Nietzsche context is everything because he has a tendency to say some pretty harsh, outrageous things that only make sense within a larger framework.
I don't think it's harsh at all; I think it's generally true. Most people's most profound desire is for unity, both in the sense of wanting their selves to be precise, unified entities rather than synthetic ones, and in the sense of wanting the world to be unified with their ideas (moral and otherwise) of it. The Ubermensch strives for mastery, both of himself and of the world (not necessarily in a political sense, but in a more vague sense of making it his own), but he knows and embraces the fact that it is a perpetual striving, never an end.



"More after my heart—I mean such an increase in the menace of Russia that Europe would have to resolve to become menacing, too, namely, to acquire one will by means of a new caste that would rule Europe, a long, terrible, will of its own that would be able to cast its goals millenia hence... The time for petty politics is over: the very next century will bring the fight for the dominion of the earth."
This seems rather prescient to me. He leaves out America, but other than that he pretty much nails it, especially if you consider the change in world order that nuclear weapons brought about.
It's the "more after my heart" preface that might seem bothersome.



On the will to power:
"Life itself is essentially appropriation, injury, overpowering of what is alien and weaker."
There's another quote on what life essentially is near the beginning on the Stoics. I'll quote it when I get home. Once again though, I still think this is mostly a personal overcoming. I keep returning to how he holds Goethe in such high regard. Goethe was hardly a tyrant and hardly used his intellect to overpower anybody. He just seems like a complete, life-affirming person.
I think Nietzsche thought most highly of self-overcoming, but I don't think his admiration of Goethe reduces the generality of his statement about life; I don't see any contradiction between them. Nietzsche's ideal man embraces the violent essence of life, but that doesn't mean he has to get out there and bust heads. He looks at all the terrible things that happen, the suffering that we inflict on one another, and he says, "all the better: that's life, and you take the pleasant with the unpleasant." He appropriates, injures, and overpowers in the sense that he makes the world his; he does precisely what he thinks is right, he puts his stamp on the world, etc. (Note also that Faust is full of jibes at people Goethe didn't think too highly of.) This sort of highly metaphorical violence needn't be accompanied by the less metaphorical sorts, but I think Nietzsche's master morality could certainly accommodate them all.



On master morality:
"Moralities must be forced to bow first of all before the order of rank"
"It is not the works, it is the faith that is decisive here, that determines the order of rank: some fundamental certainty that a noble soul has about itself... the noble soul has reverence for itself."
"The noble soul has reverence for itself" is actually one of my favourite quotes. I think a certain egoism is necessary. I have genuine faith that there is nobility in my soul. The closer I come to that nobility, and the more perfect my conception of it is, the easier it is to see in other people as well. Maybe that's arrogant. I don't know.
The problem is that master morality makes the "noble soul" correct by virtue of having faith in its own correctness. That seems like a really lousy, and potentially very dangerous, basis for morality.


I generally agree with your other assessments. Nietzsche often goes way too far to make a point, but his points generally have some merit.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just picked up Blood Meridian and Candide, the former because of my rabid McCarthyism, the latter to help inspire me when I write my searing indictment of social mores and silly people. I'm thinking of entitling it: Shysters and Charlatans.

In any case, anyone read these books? Feedback welcome.

[Duncan]

Just picked up Blood Meridian and Candide, the former because of my rabid McCarthyism, the latter to help inspire me when I write my searing indictment of social mores and silly people. I'm thinking of entitling it: Shysters and Charlatans.

In any case, anyone read these books? Feedback welcome.
I've read Candide. I think I described it as a delightful book about unimaginable suffering when I first read it. It's a solid satire, often funny.

[Duncan]

I don't think it's harsh at all; I think it's generally true. Most people's most profound desire is for unity, both in the sense of wanting their selves to be precise, unified entities rather than synthetic ones, and in the sense of wanting the world to be unified with their ideas (moral and otherwise) of it. The Ubermensch strives for mastery, both of himself and of the world (not necessarily in a political sense, but in a more vague sense of making it his own), but he knows and embraces the fact that it is a perpetual striving, never an end. Right. I agree.


It's the "more after my heart" preface that might seem bothersome. Hmm. Yeah, I see where you're coming from there. Didn't really consider that...


I think Nietzsche thought most highly of self-overcoming, but I don't think his admiration of Goethe reduces the generality of his statement about life; I don't see any contradiction between them. Nietzsche's ideal man embraces the violent essence of life, but that doesn't mean he has to get out there and bust heads. He looks at all the terrible things that happen, the suffering that we inflict on one another, and he says, "all the better: that's life, and you take the pleasant with the unpleasant." He appropriates, injures, and overpowers in the sense that he makes the world his; he does precisely what he thinks is right, he puts his stamp on the world, etc. (Note also that Faust is full of jibes at people Goethe didn't think too highly of.) This sort of highly metaphorical violence needn't be accompanied by the less metaphorical sorts, but I think Nietzsche's master morality could certainly accommodate them all. I agree that it could accommodate them all.


The problem is that master morality makes the "noble soul" correct by virtue of having faith in its own correctness. That seems like a really lousy, and potentially very dangerous, basis for morality.

Nietzsche argues earlier on that all philosophies start as faith, and then people construct intellectual frameworks to support that faith. If the framework is robust enough, is it still dangerous?

I agree that there are some troubles there, but at the same time I think a person has to have that faith in his or herself. That it's a healthy, necessary thing.

[Duncan]

Decided to tackle some of the Greek tragedies. I'll read Agamemnon for sure, as well as Euripides' Elektra. I want to read something by Sophocles, but haven't decided which one yet. I found a three volume set in my parents' basement so I have a lot to choose from. I'll start with one by each of them, and probably return to the ones I like best after reading something else.

[thefourthwall]

Finished reading Ender's Game. Love, love, loved it. Loved Ender. While it was vastly engaging and entertaining on a sci-fi level, it was also a super quick read (despite the fact that it took me a little over a month...sigh, free reading time...), and yet, it deals with a lot of big complex moral issues regarding war, humanity, philosophy, and most interestingly for me, narrative. I thought the idea that knowing each other's stories is what defines humanity to be an amazing truth.

[Duncan]

I read Ender's Game many years ago. I can't say much more than it was good at this point. Actually, it must have been really good because I read all the sequels as well.

[Grouchy]

I was prepared to be revulsed or puzzled by Naked Lunch, but nobody told me it was such a fucking funny book. It achieves some kind of delirious grandeur, and it's in fact a straight-forward novel told in the most unconventional possible way, with no discernable chronology or respect for the reader uninitiated in street slang. It took me so long to read it because I kept coming back to read other passages and try to figure out how it all connected. I'm just gonna post a page here:




'Selling is more of a habit than using,' Lupita says. Nonusing pushers have a contact habit, and that's one you can't kick. Agents get it too. Take Bradley the Buyer. Best narcotics agent in the industry. Anyone would make him for junk. (Note: Make in the sense of dig or size up.) I mean he can walk up to a pusher and score direct. He is so anonymous, grey and spectral the pusher don't remember him afterwards. So he twists one after the other ...

Well the Buyer comes to look more and more like a junky. He can't drink. He can't get it up. His teeth fall out. (Like pregnant women lose their teeth feeding the stranger, junkies lose their yellow fangs feeding the monkey.) He is all the time sucking on a candy bar. Baby Ruths he digs special. 'It really disgust you to see the Buyer sucking on them candy bars so nasty,' a cop says.

The Buyer takes on an ominous grey-green color. Fact is his body is making its own junk or equivalent. The Buyer has a steady connection. A Man Within you might say. Or so he thinks. 'I'll just set in my room,' he says. 'Fuck 'em all. Squares on both sides. I am the only complete man in the industry.'

But a yen comes on him like a great black wind through the bones. So the Buyer hunts up a young junky and gives him a paper to make it.

'Oh all right,' the boy says. 'So what you want to make?'

'I just want to rub against you and get fixed.'

'Ugh ... Well all right ... But why cancha just get physical like a human?'

Later the boy is sitting in a Waldorf with two colleagues dunking pound cake. 'Most distasteful thing I ever stand still for,' he says.
'Some way he make himself all soft like a blob of jelly and surround me so nasty. Then he gets well all over like with green slime. So I guess he come to some kinda awful climax ... I come near wigging with that green stuff all over me, and he stink like a old rotten cantaloupe.'

'Well it's still an easy score.'

The boy signed resignedly; 'Yes, I guess you can get used to anything. I've got a meet with him again tomorrow.'

The Buyer's habit keeps getting heavier. He needs a recharge every half hour. Sometimes he cruises the precincts and bribes the turnkey to let him in with a cell of junkies. It gets to where no amount of contact will fix him. At this point he receives a summons from the District Supervisor:

'Bradley, your conduct has given rise to rumors -- and I hope for your sake they are no more than that -- so unspeakably distasteful that ... I mean Caesar's wife ... hrump ... that is, the Department must be above suspicion ... certainly above such suspicions as you have seemingly aroused. You are lowering the entire tone of the industry. We are prepared to accept your immediate resignation.'

The Buyer throws himself on the ground and crawls over to the D.S. 'No, Boss Man, no ... The Department is my very lifeline.'

He kisses the D.S.'s hand thrusting his fingers into his mouth (the D.S. must feel his toothless gums) complaining he has lost his teeth 'inna thervith.' 'Please Boss Man, I'll wipe your ass, I'll wash out your dirty condoms, I'll polish your shoes with the oil on my nose ...'

'Really, this is most distasteful! Have you no pride? I must tell you I feel a distinct revulsion. I mean there is something, well, rotten about you, and you smell like a compost heap.' He put a scented handkerchief in front of his face. 'I must ask you to leave this office at once.'

'I'll do anything, Boss, anything.' His ravaged green face splits in a horrible smile. 'I'm still young, Boss, and I'm pretty strong when I get my blood up.'

The D.S. retches into his handkerchief and points to the door with a limp hand. The Buyer stands up looking at the D.S. dreamily. His body begins to dip like a dowser's wand. He flows forward ...

'No! No!' screams the D.S.

'Schlup ... schlup schlup.' An hour later they find the Buyer on the nod in the D.S.'s chair. The D.S. has disappeared without a trace.

The Judge : 'Everything indicates that you have, in some unspeakable manner uh ... assimilated the District Supervisor. Unfortunately there is no proof. I would recommend that you be confined or more accurately contained in some institution, but I know of no place suitable for a man of your caliber. I must reluctantly order your release.'

'That one should stand in an aquarium,' says the arresting officer.

The Buyer spreads terror throughout the industry. Junkies and agents disappear. Like a vampire bat he gives off a narcotic effluvium, a dank green mist that anesthizes his victioms and renders them helpless in his enveloping presence. And once he has scored he holes up for several days like a gorged boa constrictor. Finally he is caught in the act of digesting the Narcotics Commissioner and destroyed with a flame thrower -- the court of inquiry ruling that such means were justified in that the Buyer had lost his human citizenship and was, in consequence, a creature without species and a menace to the narcotics industry on all levels.

[Grouchy]

My volume also has a fairly long section of outtakes and other short Burroghs writings more or less related. One of the best is something written for a magazine called Letter from a Master Addict on Dangerous Drugs.


Cannabis Indica (hashish, marijuana). --The effects of this drug have been frequently and luridly described: disturbance of space-time perception, acute sensitivity to impressions, and flight of ideas, laughing jags, silliness. Marijuana is a sensitizer, and the results are not always pleasant. It makes a bad situation worse. Depression becomes despair, anxiety panic. I have already mentioned my horrible experience with marijuana during acute morphine withdrawal. I once gave marijuana to a guest who was mildly anxious about something ("On bum kicks" as he put it). After smoking half a cigarette he suddenly leapt to his feet screaming, "I got the fear!" and rushed out of the house.

[Melville]

Just picked up Blood Meridian and Candide, the former because of my rabid McCarthyism, the latter to help inspire me when I write my searing indictment of social mores and silly people. I'm thinking of entitling it: Shysters and Charlatans.

In any case, anyone read these books? Feedback welcome.
They're both good. That's all I've got.


Nietzsche argues earlier on that all philosophies start as faith, and then people construct intellectual frameworks to support that faith. If the framework is robust enough, is it still dangerous?
Well, no more dangerous than any other moral philosophy. But Nietzsche makes the intellectual framework secondary. A vague sort of nobility of spirit is primary. What's that quote of his where he says he can't be bothered to carry around the reasons for his opinions?


Decided to tackle some of the Greek tragedies. I'll read Agamemnon for sure, as well as Euripides' Elektra. I want to read something by Sophocles, but haven't decided which one yet. I found a three volume set in my parents' basement so I have a lot to choose from. I'll start with one by each of them, and probably return to the ones I like best after reading something else.
Have you read Euripides' Medea and The Bacchae? Those are tops. Also, Antigone is the best thing I've read by Sophocles.

[Hugh_Grant]

I love Candide. In college, I had a small role in a play adaptation. I may have had a bigger role had my French not sucked so much.

My favorite Greek play is Lysistrata.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'm about halfway through Wise Blood, and decided in the spirit of Halloween I'm going to read It next. Chrisnu was my inspiration. It was between that and The Stand, but I've heard more good things about It.

[dreamdead]

I'm about halfway through Wise Blood, and decided in the spirit of Halloween I'm going to read It next. Chrisnu was my inspiration. It was between that and The Stand, but I've heard more good things about It.

Best of luck on that endeavor. I did it back in my teens and took four months to make it halfway, before doing a 600 page marathon over a weekend at some point. It's an incredibly lived-in world that King creates, and is likely still the pinnacle of his non Dark Tower career in how it culminates all of his central themes.

[D_Davis]

Thomas Ligotti's My Work is Not Yet Done is absolutely brilliant so far. I mention it here because it is not really horror at all. While classified as "corporate horror," it has more in common with Kafka or William S. Burroughs (two authors Ligotti is often compared to), and is as unique as anything by those authors (at least of what I've read from them). Imagine Office Space, but instead of just absurd and humorous in its depiction of corporate life, it also adds a thick sinister layer of deception, paranoia, and fear.

Ligotti is a master at writing in the voice of his characters while still maintaining his own unique style. Like Lovecraft and other weird fiction authors, Ligotti almost exclusively writes in first person, in a documentary style in which the narrator is conveying information about his discoveries to the reader. From the very first paragraph Ligotti expertly illustrates the main character's voice and personality. His misanthropic outlook on life and his extreme and comical cynicism is apparent throughout, and it is easy to tell that these are the character's opinions and not necessarily Ligotti's (although I wouldn't be surprised to find that Ligotti shares many of his character's beliefs).

I encourage everyone here to read this - it is quite fascinating. Ligotti needs, deserves, more readers, and again I cannot imagine anyone interested in well written fiction of any kind not being impressed by his work. Genre or not, he is simply a skillful writer. I was lucky enough to find this at my local library, as the book is quite expensive to purchase (limited pressing), so check the public library system in your area. It is being reprinted sometime early next year (February I think), though, so it will be much easier to find then.

[Duncan]

Read three Greek tragedies. All pretty great.

Antigone (Sophocles) - One of the amazing things about reading literature from this long ago is realizing how small the few stumbles forward we've made as a species are. Or, more cynically, realizing that those moves forward don't exist at all. Here the prideful king Creon refuses to accept counsel and will not reverse his decision to keep Antigone's brother unburied. The kingdom goes to hell. A lot of people kill themselves. Reminds me of the arrogance of the Bush administration. Totally insular, no outside opinions accepted, the whole American empire goes to hell.

The Bacchae (Euripides) - Probably the closest to the complete three act narrative that we are familiar with today. These plays throw us right into the action. The motivations are strong and direct. Sometimes this feels limiting, but here the narrative's architecture is more open than in Antigone. The Bacchae's narrative has drive; its plot points have real cause and effect relationships. The final punishment is gruesome and cruel, but I guess that's just what people deserve for a lack of reverence...

Agamemnon (Aeschylus) - This was my favourite of the three. Glorious and bloody. The characters here have the same strong motivations, but there are some nuances that I think elevate it further. Some jaw-droppingly awesome lines which I will quote when I have access to the book if I remember. I don't think it's one of the better plays I've read in terms of overall structure, but from moment to moment it's way up there.

I think I'll leave off there for now, but I'll definitely return to these books in the future. Will probably read Love in the Time of Cholera next.

[EvilShoe]

I finished Catch 22, which was rather brilliant.
Great combination of satire and pathos. The two chapters that stood out for me were the one that centered on Major Major, and the one about Doc Daneeka's fate.
(Major Major reminded me of Day of the Locust's Homer Simpson several times. That's not a bad thing.)

I'm not sure if I'll check out Closing Time. I don't want it to taint my memory of Yossarian & co.

[Melville]

Antigone (Sophocles) - One of the amazing things about reading literature from this long ago is realizing how small the few stumbles forward we've made as a species are. Or, more cynically, realizing that those moves forward don't exist at all. Here the prideful king Creon refuses to accept counsel and will not reverse his decision to keep Antigone's brother unburied. The kingdom goes to hell. A lot of people kill themselves. Reminds me of the arrogance of the Bush administration. Totally insular, no outside opinions accepted, the whole American empire goes to hell.
I actually had the opposite reaction. I thought Antigone was recklessly endangering people, while Creon had very sound reasons for wanting to maintain the rules of society.


The Bacchae (Euripides) - Probably the closest to the complete three act narrative that we are familiar with today. These plays throw us right into the action. The motivations are strong and direct. Sometimes this feels limiting, but here the narrative's architecture is more open than in Antigone. The Bacchae's narrative has drive; its plot points have real cause and effect relationships. The final punishment is gruesome and cruel, but I guess that's just what people deserve for a lack of reverence...
I like how Euripides gets the closest to making the gods seem otherworldly and unknowable, and his characters struggle with that ineffableness. He's definitely my favorite of the Greek tragedians.


Agamemnon (Aeschylus) - This was my favourite of the three. Glorious and bloody. The characters here have the same strong motivations, but there are some nuances that I think elevate it further. Some jaw-droppingly awesome lines which I will quote when I have access to the book if I remember. I don't think it's one of the better plays I've read in terms of overall structure, but from moment to moment it's way up there.
Yeah, Aeschylus really lays on the mood of bloody doom. Fate seems like much more of an overwhelming force in his plays than in the others'.

[SirNewt]

Read three Greek tragedies. All pretty great.

Antigone (Sophocles) - One of the amazing things about reading literature from this long ago is realizing how small the few stumbles forward we've made as a species are. Or, more cynically, realizing that those moves forward don't exist at all. Here the prideful king Creon refuses to accept counsel and will not reverse his decision to keep Antigone's brother unburied. The kingdom goes to hell. A lot of people kill themselves. Reminds me of the arrogance of the Bush administration. Totally insular, no outside opinions accepted, the whole American empire goes to hell.

The Bacchae (Euripides) - Probably the closest to the complete three act narrative that we are familiar with today. These plays throw us right into the action. The motivations are strong and direct. Sometimes this feels limiting, but here the narrative's architecture is more open than in Antigone. The Bacchae's narrative has drive; its plot points have real cause and effect relationships. The final punishment is gruesome and cruel, but I guess that's just what people deserve for a lack of reverence...



I read these for my introduction to classical lit. class.

Unfortunately we had to read passages from George Steiner's, "Antigones" which I found insufferable. It kind of poisoned the whole experience for me.

I did enjoy The Bacchae but sparagmos, YUK!

[SirNewt]

I picked up "The Gulag Archipelago" again. Talk about Holocaust. Lenin and Stalin were way ahead of the curve.

[Malickfan]

I finished Catch 22, which was rather brilliant.

And everyone gets a share!

You know you're a fan when you start signing things Washington Irving.

[Duncan]

Skipped over Love in the Time of Cholera, read The Unbearable Lightness of Being over the course of the weekend.

Pretty good, not as good as I was hoping it would be. There's a lot of direct mental cause and effect that I didn't find very convincing. Like, she did this because her mother did something when she was a child. Or, he felt this way because of a way that she looked 10 years ago. I don't think people's heads work that way. I wish there was a little more shading there.

Good story though. The part with the dog was very moving because my dog is at that stage right now. I give him a couple weeks...anyway, I liked his thoughts on kitsch. Pretty insightful, funny. Also some of his stuff on animals. Basically, I really liked the first couple chapters (Nietzsche! I can't get away from you!), then the last two Parts. A lot in between I was fairly indifferent to.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Felt almost the same about Unbearable Lightness. I liked it a bit more than you, but the middle was a bit weak in comparison to the beginning and end. The section with the dog was easily the highlight of the book for me.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Wise Blood was fantastic. What an ending. I've only scratched the surface of her work, but O'Connor is something special. I've rarely felt that much constant tension while reading a book. She has a way of creating this palpable sense of dread that climbs into you in the beginning and grows like a cancer through to the end.

On to It. I hope it scares the shit out of me.

[Raiders]

Skipped over Love in the Time of Cholera, read The Unbearable Lightness of Being over the course of the weekend.

You chose... poorly. Though, I'm probably the biggest Marquez fan I know.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Wise Blood was fantastic. What an ending. I've only scratched the surface of her work, but O'Connor is something special. I've rarely felt that much constant tension while reading a book. She has a way of creating this palpable sense of dread that climbs into you in the beginning and grows like a cancer through to the end.

On to It. I hope it scares the shit out of me.

I hope you enjoy it.

I really dislike it. I find that it really points to King's weakness as a long-form author, namely that his narrative strength dissipates the more and more he piles on the convolution, flashbacks and confrontations.

I'm working my way through The Catcher in the Rye. A little over halfway through, and I'm surprised that I still have no idea what to make of Holden Caulfield. I keep alternating between sympathy and irritation.

[Qrazy]

I read It when I was young and it is pretty scary in parts... the freezer/fridge bit as well as the apartment building segments are fucked.

[thefourthwall]

I'm working my way through The Catcher in the Rye. A little over halfway through, and I'm surprised that I still have no idea what to make of Holden Caulfield. I keep alternating between sympathy and irritation.

I always choose irritation.

[EvilShoe]

Just finished reading Salinger's Nine Stories. DAM U: If you have mixed feelings about Holden, you'll loathe the kid from DeDaumier-Smith's Blue Period. (Funny story though. Lots of good stories in this one.)

I still have to finish Tristram Shandy, but I just can't seem to... I'll probably read The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay instead.

[Sven]

I've been putting off a 5-7 page paper, 1.5 spaced, 11-font, on the notion of freedom in Notes from the Underground. It's due on Friday, I write very slowly, and I have zilch. Zero. No ideas. I'm kind of dying.

[Mara]

I'll probably read The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay instead.

This is an excellent book.

Good to see love for Ender's Game earlier on the page, too.

[Benny Profane]

So far the praise and accolades for Richard Wright's Native Son are very well earned.

[thefourthwall]

CNN just told me that Michael Chrichton died from cancer. He wrote some decent books.

[Malickfan]

They're gonna need a big coffin. Crichton was 6'9.

Rising Sun was a great book.

[ledfloyd]

So far the praise and accolades for Richard Wright's Native Son are very well earned.
indeed. great book. it and invisible man are probably the two best books on black life in america.

[Benny Profane]

indeed. great book. it and invisible man are probably the two best books on black life in america.

You should read Go Tell it on the Mountain by James Baldwin if you haven't already. It is staggering.

[Sycophant]

Read Sarah Vowell's The Wordy Shipmates. It was overall a lot less Vowell-centric than her previous work, but was by no means out of pace with her engaging and witty body of work. It illuminated 17th century New England like it never has been for me. Definitely recommended reading for anyone with an interest in American history or good non-fiction.

Now reading Gregory Maguire's Son of a Witch. I love the way this guy writes. About a third of the way through.

[Lucky]

Saturday was a return to greatness for McEwan after the tepid On Chesil Beach. Here's the dynamite climax that was notably absent from the latter work I mentioned. McEwan has such complete control over language and his characters that not once did I question his intentions during the novel's episodes. If this was the first McEwan novel I read, I would undoubtedly accuse it prematurely of meandering, but McEwan has earned my complete trust. And with that, this novel was a satisfying ride. Throughout the course of one man's day, he manages to encapsulate the milieu of an entire population. Another psychological and social masterwork from McEwan's pen.

[Grouchy]

Wow, after spending some days having trouble getting into it, I can't fucking put down Dune.

[Malickfan]

Wow, after spending some days having trouble getting into it, I can't fucking put down Dune.

How many pages did it take?

[Grouchy]

How many pages did it take?
80-100.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I gotta say, I'm about 200 pages into IT right now, and King's constant rambling on pointless topics or descriptions has me almost ready to put it away for good. He literally spent nearly an entire page describing the posters in the Derry Public Library. Why the fuck do I need to know, or fucking care for that matter, what the posters say in the library? When he was typing that, didn't it occur to him, even for a split second, that maybe he was wasting the reader's time with pointless information? How could it not? And this certainly isn't the first pointless diatribe he's put in the book thus far, just the most memorable (and most recent). So far there have been two, count them TWO, appearances by It, and I'm pretty sure both happened in the first 20 pages of the book. So the other 180 pages have been character back-stories, rife with hokey cliches. This had better pick up quickly, otherwise it'll join the short list of books I failed to finish.

[Sycophant]

Finished Gregory Maguire's Son of a Witch last night. While not as strong or as good as its predecessor, Wicked, it moves along at a brisk pace, never fails to impress me with its wit, and is ultimately very satisfying, if a little muddled plotwise in the middle.

Planning to begin Ryu Murakami's Pierced later today over lunch.

[EvilShoe]

Wow, after spending some days having trouble getting into it, I can't fucking put down Dune.
I stopped after about 30 pages... That was a long time ago.

I went with Lord of the Flies instead of Kavalier and Clay (didn't have enough room in my bag).
Great idea to tell people your nickname was Piggy, idiot.

[Grouchy]

I gotta say, I'm about 200 pages into IT right now, and King's constant rambling on pointless topics or descriptions has me almost ready to put it away for good. He literally spent nearly an entire page describing the posters in the Derry Public Library. Why the fuck do I need to know, or fucking care for that matter, what the posters say in the library? When he was typing that, didn't it occur to him, even for a split second, that maybe he was wasting the reader's time with pointless information? How could it not? And this certainly isn't the first pointless diatribe he's put in the book thus far, just the most memorable (and most recent). So far there have been two, count them TWO, appearances by It, and I'm pretty sure both happened in the first 20 pages of the book. So the other 180 pages have been character back-stories, rife with hokey cliches. This had better pick up quickly, otherwise it'll join the short list of books I failed to finish.
Don't ever try reading Moby Dick. I mean it.

[Sycophant]

Has anyone else read anything by Ryu Murakami (the author of the story on which Audition was based)?

Last year, I read Almost Transparent Blue and was pretty satisfied with it. Now I'm reading Piercing and am about halfway through it. It's fascinating. At the very opening, a new father stands over his infant daughter with an ice pick, trying to convince himself that he would never stab her. Murakami tells this bleak and dark story of a damaged person using the very sorts of rationale that would actually allow such a lost soul to commit the past and pending acts alluded to in the book. It's fascinating and truly shaking.

[Sycophant]

Also, does anyone know any good books on Iran? I'm looking to acquaint myself better with the history, the culture, and current social-political climate there.

[Milky Joe]

So Robert Bolaño's epic novel 2666 is released today in English. Thinking about picking it up (as if I need another huge book to read).

[ledfloyd]

So Robert Bolaño's epic novel 2666 is released today in English. Thinking about picking it up (as if I need another huge book to read).
i saw it at barnes and noble yesterday. i was tempted.

i picked up Generation of Swine. i'm almost finished reading HST's complete works.

i'm also reading Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell, Portrait of the Artist by James Joyce and the Lincoln biography Team of Rivals.

i have Catch 22 on deck. and a few others.

[Duncan]

Also, does anyone know any good books on Iran? I'm looking to acquaint myself better with the history, the culture, and current social-political climate there.

Reza Aslan's No god but God talks quite a bit about Iran. It's primarily a concise and excellent introduction to the history and beliefs of Islam from a progressive viewpoint.

Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis is the only other book about Iran that I've read. Also great. It's a personal memoir, but it incorporates a lot of the history and culture of Iran.

[Duncan]

Haven't been reading as much as I usually do lately, but I'm almost done Love in the Time of Cholera. So far so good.

[Winston*]

Has anyone else read anything by Ryu Murakami (the author of the story on which Audition was based)?
I read In the Miso Soup not so long ago. Kind of find it hard to get past how grotesque the central set piece is to assess the overall quality of the novel. Ultimately I think the novel kind of feels like an excuse to write that scene, which bothers me a little.

[Sycophant]

Reza Aslan's No god but God talks quite a bit about Iran. It's primarily a concise and excellent introduction to the history and beliefs of Islam from a progressive viewpoint.

Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis is the only other book about Iran that I've read. Also great. It's a personal memoir, but it incorporates a lot of the history and culture of Iran.Thanks, Duncan. I'll be sure to check out Aslan's book. I'm also looking for a better understanding of Islam as well, so that should be good. Persepolis is one I frequently toy with picking up and plan to soon.


I read In the Miso Soup not so long ago. Kind of find it hard to get past how grotesque the central set piece is to assess the overall quality of the novel. Ultimately I think the novel kind of feels like an excuse to write that scene, which bothers me a little.I was planning on reading that one after Coing Locker Babies and maybe Sixtynine (which I hear is actually a lot sweeter than the work he's most known for).

Your complaint has me a little wary, though it's not one I'd ascribe to the two books of his I've read thus far. Glad to know at least some people are reading him. I've found his writing very absorbing.

[thefourthwall]

Persepolis is one I frequently toy with picking up and plan to soon.


Stop toying and do it. It is vunderbar.


I finally finished Watchmen last night (I was unsure where to put this...Comics? Sci-Fi? straight Lit?) and can't believe I hadn't read it until now. It is all that I love about reading in one amazing book. Complex, embedded narrative structure. Dealings with epic myths and archetypes. Definitely an Important Book. I'm toying with the notion of teaching it next semester in my Brit Lit survey class but am slightly intimidated at the thought. There is just so much packed in there.


So now, it's on to Twilight, which I have vowed to read before attending a midnight showing with friends.

[Grouchy]

I finally finished Watchmen last night (I was unsure where to put this...Comics? Sci-Fi? straight Lit?) and can't believe I hadn't read it until now. It is all that I love about reading in one amazing book. Complex, embedded narrative structure. Dealings with epic myths and archetypes. Definitely an Important Book. I'm toying with the notion of teaching it next semester in my Brit Lit survey class but am slightly intimidated at the thought. There is just so much packed in there.
It'd be awesome if you did it, though. I for one give you moral support.

Funny thing about Bolaño - he used to say in interviews that he considered editions of his books too expensive, so he recommended stealing them from the bookstores. The guy even gives advice on how to do it without getting caught.

[thefourthwall]

It'd be awesome if you did it, though. I for one give you moral support.


dreamdead has done it, so there's hope that I could crib his lecture notes and pedagogical ideas...

[Watashi]

For someone who has never read a single Michael Crichton book, what's a good starting point (besides Jurassic Park)?

[Kurosawa Fan]

For someone who has never read a single Michael Crichton book, what's a good starting point (besides Jurassic Park)?

I loved Congo (that was my first one), but I was probably 12 or 13 when I read it, so I don't remember much. I also really liked A Case of Need and Sphere, but again, I was really young. The only books of his I've read late enough in life to know that they were of good quality was Jurassic Park and The Lost World.

[MadMan]

After I finish reading The Watchmen I plan on picking up a Crichton book I haven't read before. I'm thinking that maybe I'll go with The Andromeda Strain before I actually see the movie adaption, as I've already read three of his books. Out of those three I loved Jurassic Park the best, although I also dug Congo a lot. The Lost World was good, but kind of forgettable, and its amazing how the movie is nothing like it at all.

[Benny Profane]

Little Green Men is terrific satire so far. How have I not read any Christopher Buckley before???

[Wryan]

For someone who has never read a single Michael Crichton book, what's a good starting point (besides Jurassic Park)?

Congo or The Great Train Robbery are probably best, as they are probably the most accessible while also being good. Sphere is top tier. Prey and Timeline are aight.

I love 13th Warrior with a strange passion, but never read Eaters of the Dead. Heard it was decent.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Little Green Men is terrific satire so far. How have I not read any Christopher Buckley before???

Awesome. I picked up Florence of Arabia from the used book sale a few weeks back because I've wanted to read something by Buckley for a while now.

[Duncan]

Finished Love in the Time of Cholera. It was good, not as good as 100 Years of Solitude. There are a few amazingly awesome lines in it, but I actually wasn't very moved by the central love story.

Started Leonard Cohen's Beautiful Losers. Very vulgar so far. I'm a little taken aback, to be honest.

[Ezee E]

In the process of reading Shutter Island. The first two chapters were a bit tough, but since, I haven't really been able to put the book down. It's pulpy, but I love that stuff.

I have a feeling the cops may actually be inmates, but I hope that isn't true.

It'll be interesting to see what Scorsese does with this. It almost seems more David Fincher.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Really struggling with It. I'm 600 pages in, and at this point I want to finish it (that's just too much to get through just to give up), but it's a struggle to pick it up. His writing for the adults is uber-lame. I flew through the first section of 1958, but now that we're back in the "present", I just can't get interested. Hopefully I can finish it before the end of the year.

*sigh*

[Duncan]

Almost done Beautiful Losers. I have not read Fight Club, but judging from the movie that book is a total ripoff of this one, except it replaced sex with violence. There are way too many coincidences to ignore, right down to the crazy mentor character who may or may not exist making soap from human fat.

[SirNewt]

Just finished "White Nights". The end is a little unfulfilling but I suppose that's what happens when reality intrudes on fantasy. I'll be starting "Atmospheric Distrubances" when the semester ends. I've been reading a lot lately and need to focus on my school work.

[Malickfan]

For someone who has never read a single Michael Crichton book, what's a good starting point (besides Jurassic Park)?

That's easy. Rising Sun...and skip the movie.

[Benny Profane]

Little Green Men was really entertaining and hilarious political satire. I will definitely be reading more Buckley in the future. Now on to The Waves by Virginia Woolfe, my second novel of hers. Just like the first, it took me about 40 pages to really get used to her style. Once it clicks and starts to make more (read: some) sense, it's very rewarding.

[Duncan]

Almost done Beautiful Losers. I have not read Fight Club, but judging from the movie that book is a total ripoff of this one, except it replaced sex with violence. There are way too many coincidences to ignore, right down to the crazy mentor character who may or may not exist making soap from human fat.

Finished this last night. I liked it a lot. I will not be convinced that all the sentences mean anything, but that's OK. I stand by the Fight Club statement. They're extremely similar, plotwise.


I read about 30 pages of Everything is Illuminated last night. Seems like an interesting book, but maybe a little too cute so far.

[Duncan]

Read 100 more pages of Everything is Illuminated and I'm finding it hilarious, as well as tender and melancholy. I was skeptical at first, but this is pretty great so far.

[Benny Profane]

For some reason I've always turned my nose up at that book. Maybe it's the cover. Or maybe it's the Elijah Wood factor. But since our tastes our fairly aligned I will give it a go.

[Kurosawa Fan]

For some reason I've always turned my nose up at that book. Maybe it's the cover. Or maybe it's the Elijah Wood factor. But since our tastes our fairly aligned I will give it a go.

:lol:

I've passed it by several times, and I'm certain it's the Elijah Wood factor. That and I found the film mediocre. Which is probably Elijah's fault too.

[Duncan]

It's definitely one that takes a while to get into. I thought the Ukrainian broken English was a total gimmick at first, but it's worked out very well so far.