The Book Discussion Thread

[Melville]

Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal is awesome.
Damn straight. I found Swift's misanthropy extremely tedious in Gulliver's Travels, but his short stories and essays are perfect little nuggets of bitter satire.

[lovejuice]

15 pages?

definitely not my good man. even Anna Karenina require at least 30 pages. :twisted:

[jesse]

Damn straight. I found Swift's misanthropy extremely tedious in Gulliver's Travels, but his short stories and essays are perfect little nuggets of bitter satire. He was bring ripped apart today in an essay I was reading because of his misogyny. Kinda left a bitter taste in my mouth...

[Melville]

He was bring ripped apart today in an essay I was reading because of his misogyny. Kinda left a bitter taste in my mouth...
Was his misogyny really distinguishable from his general misanthropy? He did show an unusual disgust with the female body, but I saw that as a natural extension of his disgust with humanity as a whole. Although the "naturalness" of that extension relies on him responding to the object-hood of women (i.e. by linking his general disgust to a particular sexualized form) more than that of men, which I guess could be construed as sexist.

[jesse]

Was his misogyny really distinguishable from his general misanthropy? He did show an unusual disgust with the female body, but I saw that as a natural extension of his disgust with humanity as a whole. Although the "naturalness" of that extension relies on him responding to the object-hood of women (i.e. by linking his general disgust to a particular sexualized form) more than that of men, which I guess could be construed as sexist. I haven't read any more than bits and pieces of Swift, so I'm asking of ignorance, but does Swift also show such a vehement disgust for the male body as well? Because going by your line of thinking, that'd be a natural extension as well...

[Melville]

I haven't read any more than bits and pieces of Swift, so I'm asking of ignorance, but does Swift also show such a vehement disgust for the male body as well? Because going by your line of thinking, that'd be a natural extension as well...
He does show some disgust, but he doesn't dwell on it as much. His disgust with the body is very much a reaction against sexuality and sexual attraction, which he seemed to view as very low-minded. His linkage of his general disgust to a particular disgust with the female body thus seems natural because the body of the opposite sex (or the sexually attractive sex(es), to include non-heterosexuals) is typically more prominent to one's view—more "body," and definitely more sexualized body—than that of one's own sex. He just wouldn't naturally think of the male body, as body, as much as he would the female body. However, as I admitted in the last sentence of my previous post, this could be thought of as inherently sexist. But even if it's sexist, I don't think it's misogynistic. I haven't read a whole lot by Swift, though, and I remember even less, so I could be totally wrong.

[megladon8]

The first two in my book. The first was Rats in the Walls. The second I can't recall the title. Neither was very impressive.


I don't care much for Lovecraft either. I read a collection with short stories by him. Meh.



I can definitely see how one could find his work unlikable. It's very wordy and dense. He tends to go on and on with descriptions, but I really like it.

[Melville]

He does show some disgust, but he doesn't dwell on it as much.
After some more thought, I've decided that my argument doesn't really work. Swift really did show more disgust for the female body than for the male; and regardless of the cause of this disgust, it does qualify as misogynistic. I guess my point, then, is just that Swift's misogyny was rooted in his misanthropy.

[EvilShoe]

I can definitely see how one could find his work unlikable. It's very wordy and dense. He tends to go on and on with descriptions, but I really like it.
I guess me and K_fan are more Catcher in The Rye guys. :P

[Qrazy]

I don't find Swift's work that misanthropic, incredibly critical yes, but not hopeless in connexion with the overall potential for humankind.

[Melville]

After some more thought, I've decided that my argument doesn't really work.
After even more thought, I've changed my mind again. I think that his focus on women's bodies is probably justified by his presumed readership. If his readership was mostly male (which I'm guessing, perhaps incorrectly, that it was), then it makes much more sense for his attack on sexuality to focus on women's bodies more than men's. Since most men would already agree that other men aren't attractive, there would be no reason for Swift to push that point.


I don't find Swift's work that misanthropic, incredibly critical yes, but not hopeless in connexion with the overall potential for humankind.
Really? That last section of Gulliver's Travels seemed like an all-out carpet bombing of humanity. It wasn't really criticizing particular unlikable things about humanity: it was condemning humanity as a whole. But I read it a long time ago (this seems to be a recurring refrain for me). Maybe I wouldn't find it so misanthropic if I read it now.

[Sven]

The first two in my book. The first was Rats in the Walls. The second I can't recall the title. Neither was very impressive.

I suggest reading The Colour Out of Space. If that one doesn't do it for you, then I'd be comfortable with your letting him go. The Rats in the Walls isn't one of my favorites either, but in general, Lovecraft is absolutely indispensable. Nobody rocks the ambiguity like that cat.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I suggest reading The Colour Out of Space. If that one doesn't do it for you, then I'd be comfortable with your letting him go. The Rats in the Walls isn't one of my favorites either, but in general, Lovecraft is absolutely indispensable. Nobody rocks the ambiguity like that cat.

I'll take it under advisement. I'm not sure if that particular story is in my book or not, I'll have to check when I get home. I haven't given up on him. Heck, I only read two stories. He just wasn't gelling with me, and I'm not sure if it was my mood or his writing. I'll pick it up again in the future and see how it goes.

[Sven]

I'll take it under advisement. I'm not sure if that particular story is in my book or not, I'll have to check when I get home. I haven't given up on him. Heck, I only read two stories. He just wasn't gelling with me, and I'm not sure if it was my mood or his writing. I'll pick it up again in the future and see how it goes.

If you could inform me when you find out exactly what the other story was that didn't gel with you, I could perhaps give you a further recommendation.

[Kurosawa Fan]

If you could inform me when you find out exactly what the other story was that didn't gel with you, I could perhaps give you a further recommendation.

I believe it was The Picture in the House? Maybe? I'll have to double check the book when I get home tonight.

[Sven]

I believe it was The Picture in the House? Maybe? I'll have to double check the book when I get home tonight.
Did it have a guy who runs into the house to get out of the rain, whereupon he meets an old cannibal man?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Did it have a guy who runs into the house to get out of the rain, whereupon he meets an old cannibal man?

Nope. Cripe, I'll just check when I get home.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Nope. Cripe, I'll just check when I get home.

It was The Outsider. With Rats in the Walls, I thought it was needlessly wordy and fairly anti-climactic. The Outsider was better, much tighter and a bit surreal, but the story itself was fairly blasé. Like I said, I'll go back to him in the future. Two stories is hardly fair to judge the man, especially when I haven't heard much about the two I chose to read.

[D_Davis]

I thought it was needlessly wordy...

I don't think you'll like Lovecraft.

;)

[Kurosawa Fan]

I don't think you'll like Lovecraft.

;)

I enjoy his writing, he's certainly gifted at painting a vivid picture, but at times in that story it felt like he was dragging things out on purpose. It didn't feel that way in The Outsider. I loved his descriptions of the decrepit castle and the trees blotting out the sun.

I'm still holding out hope.

[Sven]

The Outsider is incredible for its descriptions even if the psychology and the big twist are telegraphed far too bluntly. Still, the images that its words paint are vivid and terrifying, of the subterranean castle and the "Outsider's" ascent.

So yeah, read Colour of Outer Space (an awesome psychotic alien story) and, given your limp reaction to The Outsider, try Celephais. It's not scary, but rather, a very colorful, poetic, comi-tragic imagining of the workings of a (possibly) delusional mind. Cool Air is also pretty neat, and I find it similar in tone and slightly superior to the convoluted if otherwise terrific Herbert West - Reanimator. The problem with that last story is that it was a serial and so all of the chapters spend a lot of the time recapping what has happened so far in the story because the original publication didn't run blurbs filling the audience in on previous installments. Still, it's roaring good fun, and the "redundancies" are always told in unique ways that do much, actually, to shade the story in unexpected colors.

[megladon8]

I'm particularly fond of "The Dunwich Horror", myself.

[D_Davis]

I enjoy his writing, he's certainly gifted at painting a vivid picture, but at times in that story it felt like he was dragging things out on purpose. It didn't feel that way in The Outsider. I loved his descriptions of the decrepit castle and the trees blotting out the sun.

I'm still holding out hope.

I've noticed, throughout the years, that I have to be in a very particular mood for Lovecraft. He is not an author I can easily turn to just to read something good. I actually have to be in the mood for Lovecraft.

My favorite is actually The Dream Cycle, which begins with the incredible, The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath. It is awesome.

This story actually inspired a 45-minute long song my last band would perform live. I wrote a children's story about the main character, Randolph, as a child, and then I had my computer read it in a robot voice while we played over it.

[SpaceOddity]

I'm starting Mary Barton by Elizabeth Gaskell. Cos I'm in an oppressed worker mood. :P

[Qrazy]

After even more thought, I've changed my mind again. I think that his focus on women's bodies is probably justified by his presumed readership. If his readership was mostly male (which I'm guessing, perhaps incorrectly, that it was), then it makes much more sense for his attack on sexuality to focus on women's bodies more than men's. Since most men would already agree that other men aren't attractive, there would be no reason for Swift to push that point.


Really? That last section of Gulliver's Travels seemed like an all-out carpet bombing of humanity. It wasn't really criticizing particular unlikable things about humanity: it was condemning humanity as a whole. But I read it a long time ago (this seems to be a recurring refrain for me). Maybe I wouldn't find it so misanthropic if I read it now.

I think it's mostly an issue of interpretation. The last section can certainly be interpreted as misanthropic but I don't think it's an intrinsic element of the text. I take the Yahoos to represent humanity as it's basest, and the Houyhnhnms to represent man's potential, sometimes achieved. Plus in a way Swift comes full circle with the final segment and even satirizes himself. Just as Gulliver becomes a recluse and spends most of his days talking to his horses, Swift was suspected of having a deteriorating mental condition later in his life, a condition he even suspected of himself.

Gulliver certainly lived with the Houyhnhnms amicably for a time, was his weakness, his failing, part of his very nature or did he merely fall prey to his baser side? Can he reach the level of the Houyhnhnms or is the Yahoo a fundamental element of his nature. I feel Swift leaves it an open question.

[Melville]

I'm starting Mary Barton by Elizabeth Gaskell. Cos I'm in an oppressed worker mood. :P
What happened to Our Lady of the Flowers? Was it good?


I think it's mostly an issue of interpretation. The last section can certainly be interpreted as misanthropic but I don't think it's an intrinsic element of the text. I take the Yahoos to represent humanity as it's basest, and the Houyhnhnms to represent man's potential, sometimes achieved. Plus in a way Swift comes full circle with the final segment and even satirizes himself. Just as Gulliver becomes a recluse and spends most of his days talking to his horses, Swift was suspected of having a deteriorating mental condition later in his life, a condition he even suspected of himself.
The only problem with that interpretation is that the Yahoos are people and the Houyhnhnms are horses. It's obvious that the Houyhnhnms represent humanity's "higher" nature, a kind of spiritual limiting value, and the Yahoos represent humanity's overtly materialistic, disgustingly fleshy and petty nature. However, by casting the higher nature as something fundamentally (physically) distinct from humanity, Swift presents that higher nature as an unattainable limit, since we can never escape our fleshy side. (That is, unless you believe in the immortal soul or some other form of transcendence... which just begs the question of whether it's actually "humanity" that transcends itself, or only one aspect of humanity that transcends its own humanity.) And even if Swift thought that higher nature could be attained, his condemnation of the "lower" nature is so fierce that I'd call it misanthropic in any case.


Gulliver certainly lived with the Houyhnhnms amicably for a time, was his weakness, his failing, part of his very nature or did he merely fall prey to his baser side?
I'm not sure if that's a meaningful distinction. How do you distinguish between a "side" and a part of one's "very nature"?

[SpaceOddity]

What happened to Our Lady of the Flowers? Was it good?

T'was ok. I much favoured Miracle of the Rose.

[Melville]

Can anybody recommend some good reading on psychology? I generally have a pretty low opinion of the field, but that's probably because I'm not very familiar with it. Recommendations from the more scientific side and from the more philosophical side would both be appreciated.

[Qrazy]

What happened to Our Lady of the Flowers? Was it good?


The only problem with that interpretation is that the Yahoos are people and the Houyhnhnms are horses. It's obvious that the Houyhnhnms represent humanity's "higher" nature, a kind of spiritual limiting value, and the Yahoos represent humanity's overtly materialistic, disgustingly fleshy and petty nature. However, by casting the higher nature as something fundamentally (physically) distinct from humanity, Swift presents that higher nature as an unattainable limit, since we can never escape our fleshy side. (That is, unless you believe in the immortal soul or some other form of transcendence... which just begs the question of whether it's actually "humanity" that transcends itself, or only one aspect of humanity that transcends its own humanity.) And even if Swift thought that higher nature could be attained, his condemnation of the "lower" nature is so fierce that I'd call it misanthropic in any case.


I'm not sure if that's a meaningful distinction. How do you distinguish between a "side" and a part of one's "very nature"?

I disagree that the physical distinction has to have such drastic thematic connotations. I feel it seems to suggest more that humanity en masse currently holds more of a resemblance to the Yahoos then to the Houyhnhnms, but not that we are the same as the Yahoos... Gulliver is taken as more Houyhnhnms-like at first, afterall. The Houyhnhnms are flesh and blood too, not some ethereal essence. I think we also have to bear in mind that Gulliver is not just an avatar for Smith. He's also a flawed character and sometimes his narration is suspect. Are the Houyhnhnms really as great as he professes in the first place? After all, they condemn him to the Yahoos for a somewhat minor crime and on the basis of his crime make a decision about his fundamental nature (i.e. they suppose him a yahoo) that seems extremely harsh and condemning given the circumstances. It's also relevant that they keep the Yahoos more or less as slaves. How enlightened are the Houyhnhnms really? I think this is Swift critiquing popular notions of the divine more than anything. In the Bible we are all servants of God, a terribly harsh and often vengeful God.

Well I'm inclined to agree with Sartre that there's a difference between motivation for action and the choice we make, the action itself. When I say a side I mean to say that greed serves as an inclination for action, but that doesn't mean we must give into that inclination. On the other hand, if it's part of our nature, then we're doomed to give in no matter what.

[Qrazy]

Can anybody recommend some good reading on psychology? I generally have a pretty low opinion of the field, but that's probably because I'm not very familiar with it. Recommendations from the more scientific side and from the more philosophical side would both be appreciated.

It's come leaps and bounds in the last 50 years, and has become much more of a hard science. William James is a great place to start for the philosophical side. I've only read excerpts of his work so I can't really recommend any of his books in particular. It's good to have some understanding of the history... from the phrenologists to behaviourists, gestalt theorists, cognitivists and so forth but primary readings aren't really the way to study this the most efficiently. However, for a good behaviourist text BF Skinner's Walden II is worth your time. Hebb, Berger, Damasio, Pavlov, Miller, Golgi, Cajal, Kohler, etc are worth looking into amongst a host of others.

[lovejuice]

William James is a great place to start for the philosophical side.

or read his brother's, if you're more fiction-oriented. my psychology teacher once said there's too much psychology in henry james's, and too much "fiction" -- whatever that means -- in william james's.

psychology always intriges me, but apart from a couple of freud's i've never digged into the field that much.

[Melville]

I disagree that the physical distinction has to have such drastic thematic connotations.
If not, then it seems like a flawed metaphor. In describing the Yahoos, Swift portrays humanity's particular physicality as despicable and emblematic of the Yahoos' general baseness. Since we cannot escape that physicality, this implies that we cannot escape at least that one aspect of our despicableness, and to some extent also suggests that we cannot escape the other lowly qualities which it signifies.


I feel it seems to suggest more that humanity en masse currently holds more of a resemblance to the Yahoos then to the Houyhnhnms, but not that we are the same as the Yahoos... Gulliver is taken as more Houyhnhnms-like at first, afterall. The Houyhnhnms are flesh and blood too, not some ethereal essence. I think we also have to bear in mind that Gulliver is not just an avatar for Smith. He's also a flawed character and sometimes his narration is suspect. Are the Houyhnhnms really as great as he professes in the first place? After all, they condemn him to the Yahoos for a somewhat minor crime and on the basis of his crime make a decision about his fundamental nature (i.e. they suppose him a yahoo) that seems extremely harsh and condemning given the circumstances. It's also relevant that they keep the Yahoos more or less as slaves. How enlightened are the Houyhnhnms really? I think this is Swift critiquing popular notions of the divine more than anything. In the Bible we are all servants of God, a terribly harsh and often vengeful God.
Ah, good point. I had completely forgotten about how Gulliver was cast out. But then that seems only to add to the misanthropy. Not only are we generally filthy, abominable Yahoos, but even our idealized horse-selves and/or horse-lords are a bunch of no-good, elitist slave-drivers.

Anyway, let's just agree that Swift was pretty damn harsh.


Well I'm inclined to agree with Sartre that there's a difference between motivation for action and the choice we make, the action itself. When I say a side I mean to say that greed serves as an inclination for action, but that doesn't mean we must give into that inclination. On the other hand, if it's part of our nature, then we're doomed to give in no matter what.
I wrote a lengthy paragraph about Sartre, erased it, then wrote a different one. Finally, I realized that you're probably aware of the subtleties of terms like "inclination" and "motivation" in Sartre, and that the distinction you're drawing makes perfect sense.

Thanks for the psychology suggestions. I've been meaning to pick up James' Essays in Radical Empiricism. I've also been meaning to read some novels by his brother.

[jesse]

I'm starting Mary Barton by Elizabeth Gaskell. Cos I'm in an oppressed worker mood. :P One of my friends did her Honors Thesis on the dialect in Mary Barton. It didn't sound terribly interesting to me.

[SpaceOddity]

One of my friends did her Honors Thesis on the dialect in Mary Barton. It didn't sound terribly interesting to me.

So far, it's no North and South.
*longs for Thornton*

Why do so many literary heroines possess grey eyes?
*wonders*

[Qrazy]

Finishing Beckett's Mercier and Camier tonight, probably move on to Jaspers: Way to Wisdom or a compendium of German tragedies (Lessing, Goethe, Schiller, Kleist, Grillparzer).

[Sycophant]

Anyone read Maguire's Wicked? I started it last week and finally really got into it on Saturday. I feel I may be doing Baum's books a disservice by not reading his Oz work first, but there's no turning back now. I'm anxious to see where this goes.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Anyone read Maguire's Wicked? I started it last week and finally really got into it on Saturday. I feel I may be doing Baum's books a disservice by not reading his Oz work first, but there's no turning back now. I'm anxious to see where this goes.

I'm actually quite anxious to read this. I assumed it wasn't something I'd be interested in when I first heard about it, but I've been recommended it by too many people whose taste in novels I respect. My wife owns it, so I'll be reading it fairly soon.

[Sven]

I haven't read the text of Wicked, but from knowing the musical, I think I'm fairly certain that I think the story is completely ridiculous (in a stupid way). It may be witty and well-written, I don't know, but its revisionisms are totally whack in a way that is a disservice to Baum and to the film (which is arguably a more essential element of pop culture than the books).

[Sycophant]

I haven't read the text of Wicked, but from knowing the musical, I think I'm fairly certain that I think the story is completely ridiculous (in a stupid way). It may be witty and well-written, I don't know, but its revisionisms are totally whack in a way that is a disservice to Baum and to the film (which is arguably a more essential element of pop culture than the books).I'm only passingly familiar with the musical, but I'm under the impression that it's pretty loosely inspired by the book. It's certainly a different take on Oz (Maguire's books are more a response to the books and not the film, which, while arguably a more significant cultural landmark in todays' world, bore a lot of dissimilarities to its source material), and from what I know of Baum's work, Maguire has in fact changed a lot of the workings of Oz, to the point where one might argue he should have removed it into its own, rebranded world. I can't agree though, as 100-odd pages in, it uses the world of Oz in the way that a more accomplished historical text defines what we learned in sixth-grade history classes. There's a lot of interesting stuff going on with religion, politics, classism, bigotry, and sex.

That said, you might very well not like it, and I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to sell you on it. There are parts of it that just ooze "dark-and-mature," though I'd say not in a bad way. :lol:

[Sven]

it uses the world of Oz in the way that a more accomplished historical text defines what we learned in sixth-grade history classes. There's a lot of interesting stuff going on with religion, politics, classism, bigotry, and sex.

The idea of sending up classic stories by updating them to textualize what was previously subtextual is a huuuuuuuuuuge pet peeve. That said, I love Into the Woods. He's a big ball of contradiction, iosos.


That said, you might very well not like it, and I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to sell you on it. There are parts of it that just ooze "dark-and-mature," though I'd say not in a bad way. :lol:

Oh jeez.

[megladon8]

I got my copy of Joe R. Lansdale's short story collection "High Cotton" in the mail today.

Looking forward to cracking it open once I'm done "A Canticle for Liebowitz".

[Benny Profane]

Read some good ones recently.

Vineland -- Thomas Pynchon. Straightforward hatred of Reagan-era war on drugs and America's addiction to TV, with lots of pop culture references. Definitely the most linear Pynchon novel I've read.

The Devil in the White City -- Erik Larson. Story of the Chicago World's Fair in 1893 with it's architect Daniel Burnham as protagonist, who seemingly pulled off the impossible. The story pings and pongs between the fair and Dr. Holmes, a serial killer who exploited the fair to murder at least 8 women and children. He was tried and executed in Philly. Non-fiction, but definitely written as a novel. A lot of it you have to assume is fictional filler.

No Country for Old Men -- Cormac McCarthy. Straight-up gripping suspense story and little more, but damn it was great.

Now reading Blink.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Read some good ones recently.

Vineland -- Thomas Pynchon. Straightforward hatred of Reagan-era war on drugs and America's addiction to TV, with lots of pop culture references. Definitely the most linear Pynchon novel I've read.

The Devil in the White City -- Erik Larson. Story of the Chicago World's Fair in 1893 with it's architect Daniel Burnham as protagonist, who seemingly pulled off the impossible. The story pings and pongs between the fair and Dr. Holmes, a serial killer who exploited the fair to murder at least 8 women and children. He was tried and executed in Philly. Non-fiction, but definitely written as a novel. A lot of it you have to assume is fictional filler.

No Country for Old Men -- Cormac McCarthy. Straight-up gripping suspense story and little more, but damn it was great.

Now reading Blink.

I have Vineland at home (my dad bought it and couldn't read it). Is it a good place to start with Pynchon? I'm more into linear novels as it is, so that comment intrigued me.

Also, I have owned The Devil in the White City for over a year, but haven't read it yet. Did you enjoy it? You don't really say either way in that little blurb. Was it worth the read?

Glad you enjoyed No Country for Old Men. I think it's deeper than you give credit for, but it's definitely a kick ass suspense story.

[Benny Profane]

I have Vineland at home (my dad bought it and couldn't read it). Is it a good place to start with Pynchon? I'm more into linear novels as it is, so that comment intrigued me.

Also, I have owned The Devil in the White City for over a year, but haven't read it yet. Did you enjoy it? You don't really say either way in that little blurb. Was it worth the read?

Glad you enjoyed No Country for Old Men. I think it's deeper than you give credit for, but it's definitely a kick ass suspense story.


Vineland is not quintessential Pynchon and still is fairly crooked in its narrative, but it still has his trademark themes of paranoia and repressive government, this time centering around the counter-culture movement and the U.S. response. I would start with this or The Crying of Lot 49, as these are clearly his least confusing works that I've read so far. Also his shortest.

The Devil in the White City is like In Cold Blood but with greater historical significance. How they pulled off the Fair, and it's impact since then, is downright fascinating. And Holmes is a very intriguing psychopath. How he got away with murder for so long is also pretty incredible. It's one of the best books I've read this year and that's saying a lot.

[Kurosawa Fan]

The Devil in the White City is like In Cold Blood but with greater historical significance. How they pulled off the Fair, and it's impact since then, is downright fascinating. And Holmes is a very intriguing psychopath. How he got away with murder for so long is also pretty incredible. It's one of the best books I've read this year and that's saying a lot.

Wow. I'll have to give this preference. Thanks.

[D_Davis]

I got my copy of Joe R. Lansdale's short story collection "High Cotton" in the mail today.

Looking forward to cracking it open once I'm done "A Canticle for Liebowitz".

I haven't read all of the stories in High Cotton, but that ones that I have read are awesome.

[Qrazy]

This isn't really book related but... I'm curious what Melville and Lovejuice think of Godel's Incompleteness theorem... since you both have a solid foundation in math.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del's_incompleteness_th eorem

[Melville]

I love Godel's incompleteness theorem. I especially love extrapolating its result way beyond its realm of applicability. It gives me a completely unjustified sense of surety when I assert that any finite system of axioms constructed for any philosophical purpose will inevitably allow undecidable statements.

[Melville]

After returning to and finally finishing Sartre's Being and Nothingness last month, I decided to return to Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit.



...It's a lot harder to get back into. I seem to have underlined about half of each page, and the margins are filled with all kinds of incomprehensible notes to myself.

[lwilson85]

Reading Proust. It makes absolutely no sense at all really so far. But I'm in the beginning of it. All these names and street names and places, ect. Combray chapter.

[Melville]

Reading Proust. It makes absolutely no sense at all really so far. But I'm in the beginning of it. All these names and street names and places, ect. Combray chapter.
That's probably my favorite section so far (I'm about one-third through the second volume). Why do you say it makes no sense?

[lwilson85]

That's probably my favorite section so far (I'm about one-third through the second volume). Why do you say it makes no sense?

Well it makes sense. But as to who is who when they mention all the names the aunt gossips about or all the places mentioned I draw blanks. Maybe it just takes awhile to settle down and it's all just set up. What I mean is I'm mainly having trouble separating who is who in this novel so far besides the aunt, the maid and the main character Proust.

[Melville]

Well it makes sense. But as to who is who when they mention all the names the aunt gossips about or all the places mentioned I draw blanks. Maybe it just takes awhile to settle down and it's all just set up. What I mean is I'm mainly having trouble separating who is who in this novel so far besides the aunt, the maid and the main character Proust.
Ah... well, it shouldn't take too long to familiarize yourself with the character names. I think the end of the last book in the series has a summary of all the characters (assuming you're reading the same edition as I am... which is probably an unsafe assumption).

[lovejuice]

After returning to and finally finishing Sartre's Being and Nothingness last month, I decided to return to Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit.


that's one of the books i'll eventually crack down even if it takes me my entire life!

[Kurosawa Fan]

I just finished Death Be Not Proud by Gunther. What a deeply affecting book, moreso considering I have two sons of my own. It does stray into boasting a bit too much, but it's hard to criticize a man for boasting about his 17 year old son who had just died of a brain tumor after a 15 month battle. Funnily enough, I think my favorite section was at the end of the book, written by Gunther's wife Frances. It's a painful look back at life lost, not only due to death but due to the busy nature of life while their son was still healthy. It's a beautiful message, to love life and live it to its fullest, and yet still not fear, but rather accept death as a part of the cycle and welcome it knowing that every moment of your life was worth the end that we all cannot avoid. I highly recommend it to those who haven't read it yet.

[SpaceOddity]

I'm reading The Pink Fairy Book.
*likes*

[Horbgorbler]

I'm reading The Pink Fairy Book.
*likes*

I borrowed the Crimson Fairy Book from a friend a few months ago and haven't given it back.

*is a bad person*

[SpaceOddity]

I borrowed the Crimson Fairy Book from a friend a few months ago and haven't given it back.

*is a bad person*

Did you finish it?
I've got the prettiest copy...

http://www.foliosoc.co.uk/books/details.php?OfferCode=BPFBB2&CatCode=1NT&pg=1&SearchMode=

*likes 'em pink*

[Horbgorbler]

Did you finish it?
I've got the prettiest copy...

http://www.foliosoc.co.uk/books/details.php?OfferCode=BPFBB2&CatCode=1NT&pg=1&SearchMode=

*likes 'em pink*

I have a few stories left, but haven't been in the fairy mood of late.

I'd have to join the Folio Society to see that page. *is tempted*

[SpaceOddity]

I have a few stories left, but haven't been in the fairy mood of late.

I'd have to join the Folio Society to see that page. *is tempted*

What have you been in the mood for of late?
*curious*

[Horbgorbler]

What have you been in the mood for of late?
*curious*

Sitting in front of the computer doing nothing, sadly.

And comics, when I do feel like reading something.

[jenniferofthejungle]

I'm reading No Country For Old Men and am really loving it so far.

[Mysterious Dude]

Though my experience with 19th century literature is limited, I'm exploring it now and I'm beginning to wonder. I found Confessions of an English Opium-Eater to be very dense, and I often got completely lost in the descriptions (and not in a good way). Is most 19th century literature just completely bourgeois? Did writers just assume that poor people were either illiterate or wouldn't read books anyway, so they didn't bother dumbing it down for them, and aimed their works solely for the rich/educated crowd?

[Benny Profane]

Tropic of Cancer -- Henry Miller.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I decided to go with The Zero by Jess Walter next.

[SpaceOddity]

Though my experience with 19th century literature is limited, I'm exploring it now and I'm beginning to wonder. I found Confessions of an English Opium-Eater to be very dense, and I often got completely lost in the descriptions (and not in a good way). Is most 19th century literature just completely bourgeois? Did writers just assume that poor people were either illiterate or wouldn't read books anyway, so they didn't bother dumbing it down for them, and aimed their works solely for the rich/educated crowd?

I think, initially the novel was essentially bourgeois (in Europe). But, this was revolutionary because previously literature had been predominantly aristocratic (Romance etc). The first novel to focus on the working class was probably Mary Barton by Elizabeth Gaskell.

[Duncan]

Started Gravity's Rainbow today.

[Thirdy]

I read One Hundred Years of Solitude again this week (I'd read it for the first time around two years ago). I really hope the English translation you guys have read is brilliant, because if there ever was a book to read in its original language, this is it. This second reading has further cemented it as one of my very favourite books. The use of language, the 'realismo mágico', the reflection of time's passing and its circular nature, the history and the stories of each character of the BuendÃ*a family, the transcendental last two pages or so... Just marvellous.

[Qrazy]

I read One Hundred Years of Solitude again this week (I'd read it for the first time around two years ago). I really hope the English translation you guys have read is brilliant, because if there ever was a book to read in its original language, this is it. This second reading has further cemented it as one of my very favourite books. The use of language, the 'realismo mágico', the reflection of time's passing and its circular nature, the history and the stories of each character of the BuendÃ*a family, the transcendental last two pages or so... Just marvellous.

Have you always known Spanish or did you learn it recently?

[Thirdy]

Have you always known Spanish or did you learn it recently?

I'm Spanish (born in Spain, Spanish parents, etc). I lived in the US for one year and in the UK for four, however.

[Ezee E]

I'm nearly a 100 pages into The Road by McCarthy, and it's pretty amazing. I'm really curious what the movie will be like. I have no idea what to expect either.

[Kurosawa Fan]

A friend of mine informed me the other day that The Ruins is being made into a film. I actually think as a tight, 90 minute movie, it could be pretty fantastic. Certainly better than the book.

[transmogrifier]

I'm nearly a 100 pages into The Road by McCarthy, and it's pretty amazing. I'm really curious what the movie will be like. I have no idea what to expect either.


I didn't like The Road. Goes nowhere. Well, not literally, but you get the drift.

Bought another Carl Sagan book. Guy was a genius.

[Lucky]

Has anyone read The Pillars of the Earth? It's a damn long book and I would love to hear if it's worth the effort before I buy it.

[Qrazy]

I've heard The Sparrow is a great read, anyone have thoughts or comments?

[Duncan]

I've heard The Sparrow is a great read, anyone have thoughts or comments?
It's a decent sci-fi novel, but if you're looking for a serious examination of suffering, or faith I suggest you look elsewhere. I remember actually being angered by the triteness of its conclusions.

[Benny Profane]

Start a new thread for this, please.

[Melville]

Start a new thread for this, please.
Sure.

[Sycophant]

Turned out that I really liked Maguire's Wicked. I rescind what I said earlier about it feeling pointedly "dark and mature." Rather, its revisionist take on Oz reads more like looking at a child's understanding with adult eyes, revealing a complexity in politics and characters. It helped that the way Maguire wrote 17-to-23-yeard-old Elphaba made me fall in love with her. The book's end feels a little rushed in its need to reconcile its vision of the Wicked Witch of the West with the events in the first book, but I liked it nonetheless. It's a fascinating book, and explores some very interesting ideas in a much meatier, more somber fashion than I'd expected.

[SpaceOddity]

I'm reading Bleak House. Esther's like a virtuoso study of blandness.

*hopes for tragic demise*

[Thirdy]

Currently reading Thomas Hardy's Jude the Obscure (a mint 1951 hardback edition that I bought used for 4 euros or so) and Harold Bloom's magnificent The Western Canon.

[SpaceOddity]

Currently reading Thomas Hardy's Jude the Obscure

*dislikes*

[jesse]

Harold Bloom's magnificent The Western Canon. *likes*

[lovejuice]

Currently reading Thomas Hardy's Jude the Obscure (a mint 1951 hardback edition that I bought used for 4 euros or so).


*dislikes*

ooh...ooh...why? jude is only one of the two books by hardy i've read. i much prefer it over casterbridge. in fact i think i really like jude.

[SpaceOddity]

ooh...ooh...why? jude is only one of the two books by hardy i've read. i much prefer it over casterbridge. in fact i think i really like jude.

Imo, compared to Tess it's crass and uninteresting.
I haven't read Casterbridge.

[jenniferofthejungle]

I'm nearly a 100 pages into The Road by McCarthy, and it's pretty amazing. I'm really curious what the movie will be like. I have no idea what to expect either.

I just started this today after reading No Country for Old Men a few days ago. I really like his style.

[megladon8]

Has anyone else here read "Baltimore, or, The Steadfast Tin Soldier and the Vampire" by Christopher Golden and Mike Mignola?

I'm around 75 pages into it and I'm really enjoying it. A great vampire tale with some beautiful, sparse black and white artwork by Mignola thrown in every couple of pages.

Parts of it read like a Bava-type gothic horror film.

[Ezee E]

I just started this today after reading No Country for Old Men a few days ago. I really like his style.
Yep. It's only gotten better as the book advances.

It seems repetitive, but Cormac writes it in a way where I just keep on reading it.

It would be tough to do a word-for-word adaptation into a movie, but the book definitely shows how much potential for a great movie it would be.

I'm going to read Suttree from him right when I finish this I think.

[Sycophant]

Per a couple posts back, I really liked Gregory Maguire's Wicked. After a cursory listen to the Original Broadway Cast recording of the musical, I think that I would be able to hate the play with all my heart.

[Ezee E]

Has there been any discussion on The Road in the back pages here or on the original site? I'd really like to read some of opinions from those who've read it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Has there been any discussion on The Road in the back pages here or on the original site? I'd really like to read some of opinions from those who've read it.

I'm not positive about which site, but I know there have been a couple discussions on the novel in the past. It completely devastated me. It's the only book that has made me cry.

[megladon8]

Yeh, "The Road" is devastating from the get-go.

But it's wonderful, and one of the best books I have ever, ever read.

[Duncan]

Took a break from Gravity's Rainbow (which I am roughly halfway through) to read Voltaire's Candide. I liked it a lot. Read it in one sitting. It's a delightful book about unimaginable suffering. I loved that one footnote defending his knock of the imaginary Pope.

[Qrazy]

Took a break from Gravity's Rainbow (which I am roughly halfway through) to read Voltaire's Candide. I liked it a lot. Read it in one sitting. It's a delightful book about unimaginable suffering. I loved that one footnote defending his knock of the imaginary Pope.

In your face Leibgloss!

[Duncan]

I read Persepolis yesterday. I bought it as a Christmas gift for my mom. She liked it, so I thought I sit down with it. I thought it was excellent. I have taken the time in the past to learn the basic facts of Iran's history, but this was a good refresher. And the history is seen from such a singular point of view, that you really get a sense of personal history. Quite emotional towards the end. It only takes 2-3 hours to read, so I definitely recommend it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

The Zero is one of the best books I've ever read. I'm always wary when a book is compared to a piece of classic literature, but those who say that Walter's novel is a modern day Catch-22 couldn't be more right. It matches Heller's classic every step of the way. It was at times very funny, but for the most part it was deeply affecting. I wasn't very excited to read a novel dealing with 9/11, and to be honest, had I known before buying it that it dealt so explicitly with the event, I probably would have passed (I bought the book on a recommendation not knowing anything about it other than it was in the spirit of Catch-22), but it doesn't pander and it doesn't manipulate. It's exactly the way a book about 9/11 should be written. In Jess' own words, it's more about 9/12 than 9/11. The book is an even mix of real and surreal, and the mystery unfolds in such a way that it's near impossible to put it down.

I can't remember the last time I was this disappointed when I had finished a book, not because the book failed to live up my expectations or because the ending was flat, but because I can't look forward to picking the book up today and continuing the story. I beg anyone and everyone who hasn't read this novel to grab it as soon as possible.

[Benny Profane]

The Zero is one of the best books I've ever read.

Wow. Seems like you enjoyed it WAY more than I did, and I enjoyed it quite a bit.

Good shtuff.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Wow. Seems like you enjoyed it WAY more than I did, and I enjoyed it quite a bit.

Good shtuff.

It really took me by surprise. I found it deeply emotionally affecting. The idea, the way the mystery unfolds, was very impressive, and some of the dialogue, particularly Remy's conversations with Jaguar (the long wool coat) were incredible. I would put it in my top 25 for sure.

[lovejuice]

i want a sidney sheldon recommendation. anyone?

[Ezee E]

Can you give us a plot synopsis of The Zero K-Fan?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Can you give us a plot synopsis of The Zero K-Fan?

From Amazon:


The Zero is the story of policeman Brian Remy, whose life begins slipping out of control after a possible suicide attempt days after the towers come down. During bouts of mysterious memory loss, Remy has been enlisted by a secret organization involved in tracking down a woman named March Selios, who worked in one of the towers but may have survived. What ensues is a cross-country hunt for clues and Remy's growing suspicion that he is committing unspeakable acts during his blackouts. Why is he searching for March? Like a character out of a Kafka novel, Remy isn't sure what the purpose of his pursuit is, and yet he pursues.

[Kurosawa Fan]

My little sister loaned me her copy of Bridge to Terabithia, so I'll be reading that. I never read it growing up, and I've been shunned for it too many times. Shouldn't take too long.

[Kurosawa Fan]

My little sister loaned me her copy of Bridge to Terabithia, so I'll be reading that. I never read it growing up, and I've been shunned for it too many times. Shouldn't take too long.

Finished this. Pretty good book, though far too fast-paced. It severely crippled the emotional impact. I'm aware it's for a younger reader than myself, but it still felt as though it was rushing to its conclusion.

[SpaceOddity]

Just read Patrick Hamilton's Twenty Thousand Streets Under the Sky trilogy.
Starting Jessica Mitford's Hons and Rebels.

[megladon8]

"The Zero" is one I almost bought in NYC this summer, in a 2-pack deal with one called "Bad Monkeys" by Matt Ruff.

[D_Davis]

"The Zero" is one I almost bought in NYC this summer, in a 2-pack deal with one called "Bad Monkeys" by Matt Ruff.

Mat Ruff is an author I want to dive into. I hear people say that he starts where Tom Robbins left off, when he was at the top of his game. A few years ago I bought Ruff's A Fool on the Hill, and I just haven't gotten around to reading it yet. It is supposed to be pretty amazing.

[megladon8]

Mat Ruff is an author I want to dive into. I hear people say that he starts where Tom Robbins left off, when he was at the top of his game. A few years ago I bought Ruff's A Fool on the Hill, and I just haven't gotten around to reading it yet. It is supposed to be pretty amazing.


"Bad Monkeys" sounded pretty interesting, and its reviews say it's amazing, as well.

We should do another reading group for one of his books :)


EDIT: And I've begun reading another book - "The Hellbound Heart" by Clive Barker. I imagine I will finish it by tomorrow, as it's quite short.

It's almost scene-for-scene what Hellraiser was on film...which I suppose makes sense, since Clive Barker wrote and directed the film as well.

Though there is a little bit more insight into the whole "pain for pleasure" idea.

Also, unless I read it completely wrong, Pinhead is a young girl in the book.

[D_Davis]

And I've begun reading another book - "The Hellbound Heart" by Clive Barker. I imagine I will finish it by tomorrow, as it's quite short.

It's almost scene-for-scene what Hellraiser was on film...which I suppose makes sense, since Clive Barker wrote and directed the film as well.

Though there is a little bit more insight into the whole "pain for pleasure" idea.

Also, unless I read it completely wrong, Pinhead is a young girl in the book.

I cannot wait for The Scarlet Gospel, Barker's next entry into the "Hellraiser" narrative. It is going to be awesome, epic, and amazing - I am sure. It should be out this year.

I've read the Hellbound Heart, but it was a very long time ago.

[megladon8]

I cannot wait for The Scarlet Gospel, Barker's next entry into the "Hellraiser" narrative. It is going to be awesome, epic, and amazing - I am sure. It should be out this year.

I've read the Hellbound Heart, but it was a very long time ago.


Has Barker done other work in the Hellraiser universe, besides "The Hellbound Heart" and this new one "The Scarlet Gospel"?

[D_Davis]

Has Barker done other work in the Hellraiser universe, besides "The Hellbound Heart" and this new one "The Scarlet Gospel"?


I don't think so.

But if you are looking for another Barker book to read soon, I cannot recommend Weaveworld enough.

[Ezee E]

Finished The Road. I can't really think of a book that has gotten to me like that has with its ending. There's a lot that I want to talk about.

The only complaints I read is that it's repetitive, which could be a fair criticism, but it just makes the scenes where things happen, which happens more and more as the book goes on, that much more suspenseful and dreadful. I had no idea what direction the book would go to until the last fifteen pages or so. Would this work in a movie? Tough to say. It'll definitely need a talented director to effectively pull off the story. The rest is pretty hard to screw up as long as they follow the material.

It's not really important, but what do you think caused the cataclysm? I want to say a meteor strike as it's something that happened to the whole world apparently, but a nuclear bomb would also work. Nothing's suggested, I like that, but it's still something to speculate.

I'm going to stick with Cormac for another book. Suttree. Not sure what to do after that.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished The Road. I can't really think of a book that has gotten to me like that has with its ending. There's a lot that I want to talk about.

The only complaints I read is that it's repetitive, which could be a fair criticism, but it just makes the scenes where things happen, which happens more and more as the book goes on, that much more suspenseful and dreadful. I had no idea what direction the book would go to until the last fifteen pages or so. Would this work in a movie? Tough to say. It'll definitely need a talented director to effectively pull off the story. The rest is pretty hard to screw up as long as they follow the material.

It's not really important, but what do you think caused the cataclysm? I want to say a meteor strike as it's something that happened to the whole world apparently, but a nuclear bomb would also work. Nothing's suggested, I like that, but it's still something to speculate.

I'm going to stick with Cormac for another book. Suttree. Not sure what to do after that.

I spoke a bit about the repetition after reading it too, but when you think about it, their lives were so repetitive, I actually think it worked to the novel's benefit in retrospect.

As for the event, with all the ash that's described throughout the landscape, my mind immediately went to nuclear bomb, but as you said, it's not really important.

[Ezee E]

I spoke a bit about the repetition after reading it too, but when you think about it, their lives were so repetitive, I actually think it worked to the novel's benefit in retrospect.

As for the event, with all the ash that's described throughout the landscape, my mind immediately went to nuclear bomb, but as you said, it's not really important.
Yeah, whenever anything out of the ordinary came, you saw how it really affected "The Man" as he nearly goes insane each time something happens. It was fascinating to read.

The movie hasn't had any word since April, so it may not still be happening, but Guy Pearce and/or Viggo Mortenson would probably do just fine in the role.

[megladon8]

Finished "The Hellbound Heart".

It was a very quick read, and aside from some minor differences and the absence of one character, it is scene-for-scene exactly the same as the movie.

That being said, I think I like the book better (as is usually the case). It's nice to have that extra insight into the thoughts of the characters.

Plus, Ashley Laurence was terrible in the movies :)

But yeh, it was good. Very disturbing.

[Benny Profane]

Mat Ruff is an author I want to dive into. I hear people say that he starts where Tom Robbins left off, when he was at the top of his game. A few years ago I bought Ruff's A Fool on the Hill, and I just haven't gotten around to reading it yet. It is supposed to be pretty amazing.

When I was a young idealistic pup, I really loved Tom Robbins. Another Roadside Attraction, Jitterbug Perfume, and Still Life with Woodpecker were all books that I treasured over a decade ago. It would be interesting to see what my reactions would be if I were to read them today. I wonder....

You being from Seattle, you probably have a slightly different perspective on the man than others. Is he a living legend or something out there?

[D_Davis]

You being from Seattle, you probably have a slightly different perspective on the man than others. Is he a living legend or something out there?

Not really, at least as far as I can tell. Although, I am not really plugged into the literary scene here.

My wife is a huge Robbins fan - she loves the dude's books.

I've only read Still Life With Woodpecker, and it was quite awhile ago. I want to read more.

[megladon8]

What kind of writing does Tom Robbins do?

I am so out of it with literature :cry:

[D_Davis]

What kind of writing does Tom Robbins do?

I am so out of it with literature :cry:

Hard to say. I haven't read enough. I'll ask my wife later to give me a good description.

From wiki:

Still Life With Woodpecker (1980) is the third novel by Tom Robbins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Robbins), concerning the love affair between an environmentalist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmentalist) princess (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess) and an outlaw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw). As with most of Robbins' books, it encompasses a broad range of topics, from aliens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_life_in_popul ar_culture) and redheads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair) to consumerism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumerism), the building of bombs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb), romance, royalty, the moon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_moon), and a pack of Camels. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_%28cigarette%29)

[megladon8]

Hard to say. I haven't read enough. I'll ask my wife later to give me a good description.

From wiki:

Still Life With Woodpecker (1980) is the third novel by Tom Robbins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Robbins), concerning the love affair between an environmentalist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmentalist) princess (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess) and an outlaw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw). As with most of Robbins' books, it encompasses a broad range of topics, from aliens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_life_in_popul ar_culture) and redheads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair) to consumerism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumerism), the building of bombs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb), romance, royalty, the moon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_moon), and a pack of Camels. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_%28cigarette%29)


Yes, I read on Amazon that apparently the book actually takes place inside a pack of Camels.

[D_Davis]

Yes, I read on Amazon that apparently the book actually takes place inside a pack of Camels.

Yeah. His books often deal with social context in the midst of urban fantasy, mythology, and satire.

[megladon8]

Yeah. His books often deal with social context in the midst of urban fantasy, mythology, and satire.


It sounds similar to Christopher Moore, though Moore replaces urban fantasy with horror.

[D_Davis]

It sounds similar to Christopher Moore, though Moore replaces urban fantasy with horror.

Totally. I would classify Moore and Robbins in the same group.

[megladon8]

Baltimore, or, The Steadfast Tin Soldier and the Vampire by Mike Mignola and Christopher Golden

a review by Braden Adam


Gothic horror is a genre which lately seems to be dominated by Tim Burton movies. His quirky, twisted dark-fantasy fairy tales have become the tape by which everything else in this style is measured - plus, there’s the fact that no one seems to be making these movies anymore, aside from Burton. But to experience true gothic horror, one has to turn to literature. And with “Baltimore, or, The Steadfast Tin Soldier and the Vampire” - the latest work from “Hellboy” creator Mike Mignola and established novelist Christopher Golden - it’s nice to see that good gothic horror can still be found in the “New Releases” section of your local bookstore.

Told episodically, “Baltimore” chronicles events which affect Henry Baltimore, a young soldier whose life is exposed to unspeakable darkness on the battlefield. After being shot in the leg and left for dead, Baltimore sees strange creature flying in the sky, who then descend and begin to devour the remains of his fallen comrades. When one approaches him, he slashes its face with his combat knife, and this event ends up changing the world forever, as it becomes the reason for the great plague of Europe, and the catalyst event for the meeting of a few men in a small pub whose lives have also been touched by darkness.

Each man in the pub brings their own story of death and decay which helps to illuminate this world which Golden and Mignola have created. Similar to the overall concept which H. P. Lovecraft pushed in nearly all of his works, one of the main ideas in “Baltimore” is that of a world beyond our world, which exists simultaneously and symbiotically alongside our own. This is the world where vampires, werewolves, demons and ghouls reside, and occasionally our paths cross, resulting in folklore and old wives tales. Granted, it’s a very different approach to the topic from that of Lovecraft, but the general idea is the same. And it’s not all that unexpected, really, since Lovecraft has obviously been a huge influence on both Mignola’s artwork and storytelling as evidenced in his “Hellboy” comics (and even the movie).

The stories told by the men in the pub are all quite chilling, and effectively creepy. It would be very wrong to spoil any of the surprises in store within the book by going into great detail about each of the tales, but suffice to say they involve some frightening creatures and situations. Demonic marionettes and giant lake monsters are among some of the horrors to be found within the pages of “Baltimore”.

But while the monsters are great, it’s the overall atmosphere of the story which is so captivating. Anyone who has seen the gothic horror films of Italian director Mario Bava will find something instantly recognizable. Descriptions of locales and characters are reminiscent of the striking imagery of such Bava classics as Black Sunday, while also having their own atmospheric qualities more suiting Mignola’s style. And while Mignola’s drawings are small and often quite simple - perhaps showing the shingles of a house, or a stylized crucifix - they really add to the feeling one gets from the book. I know that one complaint people often have with books with illustrations is that they take away the reader’s ability to imagine characters and objects the way they want to imagine them - but this is not the case here. The drawings are not greatly detailed, and even the drawings of monsters are done by showing the monster deep in shadows, so that not much of it is revealed. It’s simply enough to tease your imagination, and make the images seem even more grotesque in your mind.

One of the most impressive things (for me at least) is that Mignola and Golden managed to take the concept of vampires and make it fresh, original, and most importantly frightening again. It’s been too long since vampires scared me last - the romanticizing of these creatures never really made sense to me. It was interesting the first couple of times I read or saw vampires portrayed as sexual beings with incredible powers of seduction, but that that image became their billboard puzzled me. They’ve always been monsters to me, and with “Baltimore”, we have a return to the monstrous interpretation of the undead.

While there are startling moments and it contains an atmosphere of the macabre which could be cut with a knife, it wouldn’t be right to say that the book is all-out “terrifying”. It’s a tale of the supernatural with a definite, steady build in suspense, and a certain dramatic tragedy which makes it feel a lot more potent than it would have as a simple monster story. It really is a success on all fronts and I hope more readers decide to pick this one up.

[Duncan]

I read this book of poems by Michael Robinson called The Earth and the Dancing Man. He's an aboriginal artist whose paintings I love. Of course, I can't afford to buy any of his painting or prints, so I bought his poetry book instead.

One of the poems is titled "Walking Between Two Worlds", and that's the theme most of the poems focus on. Crossing those spiritual boundaries. He also seems to advocate absolute freedom. Total reliance on nature. That sort of stuff. I actually met him at a gallery once. Seems like a cool guy. Has long grey hair and wears a trucker hat.

The book also has reproductions of a bunch of his prints, which are worth the price even by themselves.

[jesse]

Just read Patrick Hamilton's Twenty Thousand Streets Under the Sky trilogy.
Starting Jessica Mitford's Hons and Rebels. Ohh... should be fun.

Nancy Mitford is still somewhere on my endless reading list...

[SpaceOddity]

Ohh... should be fun.

T'is. Jessica's just been made a ward of court for running off with her lover to join the Spanish reds. :D Unity's still hanging out with Hitler.



Nancy Mitford is still somewhere on my endless reading list...

Get the Pursuit of Love. *nods*

"always either on a peak of happiness or drowning in black waters of despair; they loved or they loathed, they lived in a world of superlatives."

[monolith94]

Just finished reading my first book of 08, "I Am The Cheese" by Robert Cormier. Wow. Amazing book. Has anyone else read this?

[Benny Profane]

Finished Tropic of Cancer the other night. Definitely one of the funniest, raunchiest, and yet most insightful books I've read, but Miller goes on many tangential free-form rants that are dense and incomprehensible. Really slows down the momentum.

Have started The Trial by Kafka.

[Sycophant]

Speaking of Kafka, if I were to pick up translations of Amerika or The Castle, which ones should I choose?

[lovejuice]

Finished Tropic of Cancer the other night. Definitely one of the funniest, raunchiest, and yet most insightful books I've read, but Miller goes on many tangential free-form rants that are dense and incomprehensible. Really slows down the momentum.


i have zero memory on this. reading it over the pacific on my flight back home. can't even remember if it was cancer or capricon. agree with you that the book has its moment, but it's not a compelling read.

[megladon8]

Now reading "The Plague" by Albert Camus.

Read the first 40 pages on the bus this morning - very good so far.

[ledfloyd]

i finished "a long way down" by nick hornby. it was pretty good. i picked up "hell to pay" by george pelecanos and "gone baby gone" by dennis lehane for some light reading. after that i'll either tackle "the melancholy of resistance" or maybe give "gravity's rainbow" another go. "the portrait of the artist as a young man" is another one i have sitting around.

[SpaceOddity]

Now reading "The Plague" by Albert Camus.

Read the first 40 pages on the bus this morning - very good so far.

Camus was kinda hot.

http://newcritics.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/Camus%20Photo.jpg

*rests case*

[megladon8]

Anyone else read/like "The Plague"?

[SpaceOddity]

Anyone else read/like "The Plague"?

*loves*

[lovejuice]

Anyone else read/like "The Plague"?

i like it less than the other two camus's. still very recommendable.

[Melville]

Speaking of Kafka, if I were to pick up translations of Amerika or The Castle, which ones should I choose?
The Castle is the more famous of the two, if that means anything. I started reading it but got distracted by something. Its levels of bizarreness make The Trial seem banal; not only do the characters constantly act irrationally in an unfathomable milieu, but the plot continually collapses in on itself, with characters suddenly appearing as though they had been previously introduced, with the protagonist's goals wildly oscillating, and so forth.


Anyone else read/like "The Plague"?
It's good stuff, and a great illustration of Camus' brand of absurd humanism. But like lovejuice, I much prefer The Outsider. Especially the last few sentences:
Gazing up at the dark sky spangled with its signs and stars, for the first time, the first, I laid my heart open to the benign indifference of the universe. To feel it so like myself, indeed so brotherly, made me realize that I'd been happy, and that I was happy still. For all to be accomplished, for me to feel less lonely, all that remained was to hope that on the day of my execution there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should greet me with howls of execration.

[lovejuice]

The Castle is the more famous of the two, if that means anything. I started reading it but got distracted by something. Its levels of bizarreness make The Trial seem banal; not only do the characters constantly act irrationally in an unfathomable milieu, but the plot continually collapses in on itself, with characters suddenly appearing as though they had been previously introduced, with the protagonist's goals wildly oscillating, and so forth.


the main question, for me at least, is if it's finished.

[Mysterious Dude]

the main question, for me at least, is if it's finished.
It isn't. Kafka never finished a novel.

[Melville]

the main question, for me at least, is if it's finished.
It's even less finished than The Trial. It actually ends in the middle of a sentence.

[Benny Profane]

TIME OUT!

The Trial is unfinished? I wish I would have known that. I'm about 110 pages in and loving it so far, but after the disappointment of Dead Souls being so incomplete, this is a bit of a downer.

[EvilShoe]

TIME OUT!

The Trial is unfinished? I wish I would have known that. I'm about 110 pages in and loving it so far, but after the disappointment of Dead Souls being so incomplete, this is a bit of a downer.
There's a conclusion, don't worry.

[Sycophant]

the main question, for me at least, is if it's finished.Jeez. I don't understand your obsession with reading finished works. :rolleyes:

;)

[Sycophant]

TIME OUT!

The Trial is unfinished? I wish I would have known that. I'm about 110 pages in and loving it so far, but after the disappointment of Dead Souls being so incomplete, this is a bit of a downer.Don't worry too much. It bothered me that it wasn't finished, but I still found it to be a wholly satisfying book, and, yes, one of my all-time favorites. You definitely feel that something is missing, but Kafka did finish the end of the book, and the conclusion itself is not lacking.

[Mysterious Dude]

I have to admit, with all the struggling authors in the world, I kind of resent that Kafka was able to get three of his books published without even finishing them.

[Sycophant]

I'm on my fourth story in Haruki Murakami's The Elephant Vanishes, which is only the second thing I've read of his after a short story in The New Yorker a couple years back. If he always writes like these, he's easily poised to become a favorite. What I need is a list (from any of his fans here) of his best three novels. I'm not going to start with his best, but I want to get to one of his better ones first.

After I finish A Canticle for Leibowitz, I'm going to take on as my next novel Almost Transparent Blue by the other Murakami, Audition author Ryu Murakami. Anyone read him before? I'm very interested in his Piercing.

[Sycophant]

I have to admit, with all the struggling authors in the world, I kind of resent that Kafka was able to get three of his books published without even finishing them.This is where that whole thing with Kafka being pretty much the best comes into play. And he didn't want them published if I remember correctly, anyway.

[lovejuice]

i'm constantly debating with myself if the trial'll be better or worse if it's finished. i like it very much as it is, and except for that one inconclusive chapter, it's quite complete to me. (that chapter is too long already anyway.)

i'm really really not at big fan of murakami, but haven't read his short though. somehow i think his style is more befitting there.

[Ezee E]

Has anyone figured out a way to read a book while at work? It's too thick to put in front of a paper or binder. It won't work on a clipboard.

[Sycophant]

i'm really really not at big fan of murakami, but haven't read his short though. somehow i think his style is more befitting there.Actually, as I've been reading him, I've been wondering how his style would play out across a 400-page novel instead of a 15-to-40 page story. Still, I know a couple people who've read and would swear by Wind-Up Bird Chronicle (and some who decidedly wouldn't.

[D_Davis]

Has anyone figured out a way to read a book while at work? It's too thick to put in front of a paper or binder. It won't work on a clipboard.

PDFs.

[Sycophant]

PDFs.
Also, the free texts that Wikisource and Google Books have are pretty awesome if you're into that public domain shit.

[lovejuice]

i lie down on the chair, put my feet on the table, play some classical music with an office computer, and when my advisor shows up, i glances up from a book and smirks.

[megladon8]

I'm on my fourth story in Haruki Murakami's The Elephant Vanishes, which is only the second thing I've read of his after a short story in The New Yorker a couple years back. If he always writes like these, he's easily poised to become a favorite. What I need is a list (from any of his fans here) of his best three novels. I'm not going to start with his best, but I want to get to one of his better ones first.


Yeh, SpaceOddity got me into Murakami.

Beautiful writing, and a profound understanding of pop culture.

[Ezee E]

Also, the free texts that Wikisource and Google Books have are pretty awesome if you're into that public domain shit.
I shall check that out.

800 pages of Dickens for free will last hours and hours at work.

[Duncan]

This is where that whole thing with Kafka being pretty much the best comes into play. And he didn't want them published if I remember correctly, anyway.

He ordered them burned in his will.

The Trial is definitely a masterpiece. I don't think it needs finishing. I have Amerika on my shelf, but there are a lot of books in front of it.

I'm nearly done Gravity's Rainbow (by nearly done I mean I have about 200 pages left). After that I'm going to read my first Murakami, Sputnik Sweetheart.

Regarding those last sentences from The Stranger (or The Outsider), I remember having a hell of a time trying to explain why I liked them so much to my high school English class. I took one year at a Catholic prep school in Ohio, so people didn't know me very well, and I think my teacher (who was a devout Catholic) thought I was bit crazy. "Howls of execration at your execution? What?" She was a nice lady, but she did a terrible job of explaining Existentialism. I kept trying to contradict her, but it didn't work out well.

[lovejuice]

Regarding those last sentences from The Stranger (or The Outsider)

ah...glad you clear thing up for me. i always get confused by The Stranger, The Outsider, and The Rebel. The first two are the same book, aren't they?

[Melville]

ah...glad you clear thing up for me. i always get confused by The Stranger, The Outsider, and The Rebel. The first two are the same book, aren't they?
Yes.

Regarding the ending, I remember talking to my brother about the greatness of that final epiphany, and he said that it sounded good... until the howls of execration.

[SpaceOddity]

I'm starting Charlotte Bronte's Villette.

*favours Emily*

*launches into rendition of Kate Bush's Wuthering Heights*

[Duncan]

ah...glad you clear thing up for me. i always get confused by The Stranger, The Outsider, and The Rebel. The first two are the same book, aren't they?

The Rebel is a tough one. It's a long essay on overcoming nihilism, basically. I've only read bits and pieces of it. I couldn't get through the whole thing.

[D_Davis]

I just posted this in the sci-fi thread, but I just have to champion this book to all you non-sci-fi heads. Pick up To Marry Medusa.

Wow. Wow. Wow.

To Marry Medusa is awesome. Totally, mind blowingly, incredibly awesome. This is a book that could turn anyone into a fan of Sturgeon and the genre as a whole. Anyone who likes to read well written fiction, with amazing and harrowing situations, interesting characters, and a deep understanding of humanity will love this book. It also helps that it is simply overflowing with amazing ideas, darkness, love, passion, violence, and intense, overwhelming emotions.

This man is truly a literary giant.

I feel sorry for people who don't read Sturgeon - and I was one of these not too long ago. I cannot imagine my reading life without him now. Anyone who avoids him because of genre stigma should be ashamed. This is good reading, on par with anything I've ever read.

Started it today at lunch, just finished it. One of the most captivating books I've ever had the pleasure of reading.

Plus, the dude was a total pimp!

http://www.physics.emory.edu/%7Eweeks/misc/ted/ted04.jpg

[Sycophant]

Okay, Dan. I'll look into it.

[D_Davis]

Okay, Dan. I'll look into it.

I think you'll dig the hell out of it.

[D_Davis]

Has anyone figured out a way to read a book while at work? It's too thick to put in front of a paper or binder. It won't work on a clipboard.

I don't know if you are into Lovecraft or not, but one of his contemporaries, Clark Ashton Smith, has a ton of awesome fiction available for free on this website:

http://www.eldritchdark.com/

It's really good stuff. And free!

[Qrazy]

Ok, so what about him makes him pimpin'? The picture hasn't sold me.

[Benny Profane]

Has anyone figured out a way to read a book while at work? It's too thick to put in front of a paper or binder. It won't work on a clipboard.

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/

Lots of good selections to be found here.

[D_Davis]

Ok, so what about him makes him pimpin'? The picture hasn't sold me.

If you can't see it, I can't tell you.

[Qrazy]

If you can't see it, I can't tell you.

Cop out. The man looks like he's been eating nothing but brussel sprouts for the last 10 years.

[Sycophant]

Plus, the dude was a total pimp!


The man looks like he's been eating nothing but brussel sprouts for the last 10 years.

If you can't see how these statements are basically the same thing, I can't tell you.

[Qrazy]

If you can't see how these statements are basically the same thing, I can't tell you.

Humor is beyond the scope of my computations.

On another note... is Richard Dawkins worth reading? My heart tells me no. My intuition tells me no. My brain tells me no. But my testicles tell me maybe. Discuss.

[Sycophant]

Pity To Marry Medusa is out of print. Sure, I can get it for about six bucks shipped from an Amazon seller in "like new" condition, and I wouldn't hesitate to throw it in my cart with other stuff to qualify for free shipping... I'm retarded like that.

[megladon8]

Pity To Marry Medusa is out of print. Sure, I can get it for about six bucks shipped from an Amazon seller in "like new" condition, and I wouldn't hesitate to throw it in my cart with other stuff to qualify for free shipping... I'm retarded like that.


I've never ordered anything from an independent seller on Amazon.

I'm a little weary because it seems very eBay-ish...and lord knows I've been ripped off time and time again on eBay.

[Sycophant]

I've never ordered anything from an independent seller on Amazon.

I'm a little weary because it seems very eBay-ish...and lord knows I've been ripped off time and time again on eBay.
I actually do it a lot. But I've never been burned before, so.... yeah.

[Qrazy]

Anyone have any advice on good places to start with Cormac McCarthy? Is all his work exceptional?

[megladon8]

Anyone have any advice on good places to start with Cormac McCarthy? Is all his work exceptional?


First (and only...so far) thing I've read by him is "The Road", and it's one of the best books I've ever read.

[D_Davis]

Pity To Marry Medusa is out of print. Sure, I can get it for about six bucks shipped from an Amazon seller in "like new" condition, and I wouldn't hesitate to throw it in my cart with other stuff to qualify for free shipping... I'm retarded like that.

I got it from the Amazon marketplace, which is where I buy all of my books. They cost less money, and they usually ship faster as well.

[Ezee E]

Anyone have any advice on good places to start with Cormac McCarthy? Is all his work exceptional?
No Country For Old Men or The Road is a good bet I'm guessing. I'm reading Suttree and it's a lot different then those two.

[Sycophant]

Anyone have any advice on good places to start with Cormac McCarthy? Is all his work exceptional?
I picked up teh recommendation (somewhere) that his work from Blood Meridian on is roughly chronological (not sequels, but a definite forward momentum through the work) and that that's a good place to start to observe that arc. That's what I'm doing. I'll start Blood Meridian by the end of the month.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished Water for Elephants tonight. It was an entertaining read, but nothing more. I don't much care for Gruen's writing, which was far too cheesy at times, and rather plain, but the story was quite interesting and inventive. I don't regret reading it, but it was underwhelming in the long run.

[Benny Profane]

I started reading the Unabomber's Manifesto online since watching an episode on National Geographic about him last night.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I decided to read Brighton Rock by Graham Greene. I've owned it for a long time, and the brief discussion on the FDT piqued my interest.

[megladon8]

I've never read anything by Graham Greene...:S

Apparently that's a trend I an in need of ending very soon.

[SpaceOddity]

I've never read anything by Graham Greene...:S

Apparently that's a trend I an in need of ending very soon.

*campaigns for 'The End of the Affair'*

[dreamdead]

*campaigns for 'The End of the Affair'*

Indeed. What an emotionally devastating book. The film is good, but there's something so alive in the final pages that Jordan can't quite capture.

[Duncan]

I finished Gravity's Rainbow a couple of days ago. I figured I'd give myself some time to synthesize the information. It's an impressive book, to say the least. I think it's a good thing I'm an engineering student, because otherwise a lot of the technical stuff would have been over my head. Also, I might not have gotten hilariously nerdy jokes like:

Integral of 1/(cabin) d(cabin) = log cabin + c = houseboat

I am wary of comparing myself to Pynchon, but I must say I really related to the guy. I was aware that he initially studied engineering, but I had no idea that he had such a keen interest in film as well. He even seems to apply the medium of film as a philosophical concept in ways similar to my own. We also both seem like very paranoid people. I share his intense skepticism of Them. Yeah, if I was a little more perverse, and maybe a little smarter, I'd call him a kindred spirit.

Indeed, perversity lines the whole novel like the endometrium (how's that for pseudo-sexual, science related similes? Well, I'm trying anyway). I've started reading Murakami's Sputnik Sweetheart which includes some sexuality, but I can't help but laugh at how tame it is. I bet Pynchon would be amused by lines like, "My desire swelled in me hard as a rock." Initially shocking, by novel's end the graphic vulgarity, S&M, and pedophilia resonate as forms of liberation.

The book took me a long time to read. I put a lot of hours in, and read three other books in the meantime. Part of that is simply because it's a long book. The other part is because of Pynchon's prose. It has this odd quality of being aggressive while simultaneously elusive. He allows your mind to wander, and I think a lot of people are put off by this characteristic. I really loved it though. It encourages the kind of reading described in the Thoreau quote I posted on the first page of this thread. To comeback to film, I think his prose is often abstractly cinematic. I'd read a page, maybe pick up the important facts, but more than that I would be overwhelmed by an intense impressionism. It reminded me of watching Inland Empire. A sprawling, sinister, sorta-kinda-maybe coherent emotional wave. In this way Pynchon is also a lot like Burroughs (not to mention the wild sex and drug use), except with way more interesting ideas in my opinion.

Pynchon is a wide conduit of information. The bandwidth is tough to parse. James Joyce flickers by. Flashes of Vonnegut's Billy Pilgrim are overlayed on Slothrop's figure. Borges is conjured. I'm glad I read Ficciones recently. I think that helped out a lot. "Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" is a great lens for parts of this book, specifically the Schwarzcommando and Slothrop's eventual dissolve. And, again, I love that he integrates film.

So, yeah, a pretty magnificent book. I suppose people are right to call it a "difficult" read, but I think I managed to keep up. Occasionally I had to probe my memory for character names. No big deal. I never felt lost or uncomfortable. I'll certainly be reading more of Pynchon's work in the future.

[megladon8]

While I'm enjoying "The Plague", I'm getting a little tired of Camus' writing. I know "pretentious" is a word which was sort of unofficially banned around these parts, but that seems like a perfect description for some of his writing.

I've chosen to write part of my review in a satire of how some of his writing style comes across...

He utilizes ostensibly prodigious and indubitably labyrinthine exposition to convey straightforward and untroublesome concepts.

When he could write things much simpler and still get the same effect.

I understand there's a certain art inherent in this type of writing, but it's just not for me. I prefer a more minimalistic approach.

[Melville]

Gravity's Rainbow
Sounds great.


While I'm enjoying "The Plague", I'm getting a little tired of Camus' writing. I know "pretentious" is a word which was sort of unofficially banned around these parts, but that seems like a perfect description for some of his writing.

I've chosen to write part of my review in a satire of how some of his writing style comes across...

He utilizes ostensibly prodigious and indubitably labyrinthine exposition to convey straightforward and untroublesome concepts.

When he could write things much simpler and still get the same effect.

I understand there's a certain art inherent in this type of writing, but it's just not for me. I prefer a more minimalistic approach.
Hm, I've always thought Camus' prose is very simple and precise.

[jesse]

I've started reading Murakami's Sputnik Sweetheart which includes some sexuality, but I can't help but laugh at how tame it is. I bet Pynchon would be amused by lines like, "My desire swelled in me hard as a rock." Well, to be fair that's a translation. The line might be a bit more eloquent, and most likely much more elegant, in the original language.

[jesse]

hm, I've always thought Camus' prose is very simple and precise. Yeah, I remember it being a bit too spare for my tastes (or at least in The Stranger).

[Kurosawa Fan]

Hm, I've always thought Camus' prose is very simple and precise.

Agreed. I've only read The Stranger, but I compared his writing to Bukowski (minus the vulgarity), in that it's very direct, but still maintains an appealing style.

[Benny Profane]

I finished Gravity's Rainbow a couple of days ago. I figured I'd give myself some time to synthesize the information. It's an impressive book, to say the least. I think it's a good thing I'm an engineering student, because otherwise a lot of the technical stuff would have been over my head. Also, I might not have gotten hilariously nerdy jokes like:

Integral of 1/(cabin) d(cabin) = log cabin + c = houseboat

I am wary of comparing myself to Pynchon, but I must say I really related to the guy. I was aware that he initially studied engineering, but I had no idea that he had such a keen interest in film as well. He even seems to apply the medium of film as a philosophical concept in ways similar to my own. We also both seem like very paranoid people. I share his intense skepticism of Them. Yeah, if I was a little more perverse, and maybe a little smarter, I'd call him a kindred spirit.

Indeed, perversity lines the whole novel like the endometrium (how's that for pseudo-sexual, science related similes? Well, I'm trying anyway). I've started reading Murakami's Sputnik Sweetheart which includes some sexuality, but I can't help but laugh at how tame it is. I bet Pynchon would be amused by lines like, "My desire swelled in me hard as a rock." Initially shocking, by novel's end the graphic vulgarity, S&M, and pedophilia resonate as forms of liberation.

The book took me a long time to read. I put a lot of hours in, and read three other books in the meantime. Part of that is simply because it's a long book. The other part is because of Pynchon's prose. It has this odd quality of being aggressive while simultaneously elusive. He allows your mind to wander, and I think a lot of people are put off by this characteristic. I really loved it though. It encourages the kind of reading described in the Thoreau quote I posted on the first page of this thread. To comeback to film, I think his prose is often abstractly cinematic. I'd read a page, maybe pick up the important facts, but more than that I would be overwhelmed by an intense impressionism. It reminded me of watching Inland Empire. A sprawling, sinister, sorta-kinda-maybe coherent emotional wave. In this way Pynchon is also a lot like Burroughs (not to mention the wild sex and drug use), except with way more interesting ideas in my opinion.

Pynchon is a wide conduit of information. The bandwidth is tough to parse. James Joyce flickers by. Flashes of Vonnegut's Billy Pilgrim are overlayed on Slothrop's figure. Borges is conjured. I'm glad I read Ficciones recently. I think that helped out a lot. "Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" is a great lens for parts of this book, specifically the Schwarzcommando and Slothrop's eventual dissolve. And, again, I love that he integrates film.

So, yeah, a pretty magnificent book. I suppose people are right to call it a "difficult" read, but I think I managed to keep up. Occasionally I had to probe my memory for character names. No big deal. I never felt lost or uncomfortable. I'll certainly be reading more of Pynchon's work in the future.

Hey man, glad you liked it. I agree wholeheartedly about the comparison to David Lynch, as Pynchon has that same non-linear, eerie-psychotic, and yet borderline absurd quality to his writing. He is definitely a film lover, and one of the parts I enjoyed most was when he weaved the story of Fritz Lang's Metropolis into his narrative. He does a lot more of this in Vineland which is a non-stop skewering of pop culture.

I guess one of the themes you haven't mentioned that struck me the most about GR is his seeming lust for death that he infuses into most of his characters. Sex, which is the rocket, which is death, or The Zero. I thought you'd get a kick out of the 1's and 0's in computer's representing life and death, and how the motif of entropy recurs throughout the novel. And how during and after the war, it is an international cabal of corporations with strong government ties that poses the greatest threat to obtaining the death-device of the rocket, while the goofball Slothrop who represents the common person gets totally run through the ringer. These are common themes in all his work, as well as his trademark theme of paranoia.

Of course Pynchon doesn't make it easy to sort all this out. Gravity's Rainbow is by far the most dense book I've ever read, and is often frustrating, but the sheer brilliance and inventiveness of it is enough to override those sentiments. It's also a humbling experience to read someone with the breadth of encyclopedic knowledge that Pynchon possesses. I plan on reading it again in the future.

I'd recommend his first novel V., which is my favorite of the four I've read, and it is also where the characters of Mondaugen and Pig Bodine were introduced and receive much more of the spotlight. But mostly it's about Benny Profane, Herbert Stencil, and the Whole Sick Crew.

[megladon8]

Hm, I've always thought Camus' prose is very simple and precise.


Well, I did kind of mean it as a joke :P

For the most part I'm enjoying it. There have been a couple of times where I felt the language was a bit awkward, but it could also just be in the translation.

I just finished the chapter in which Tarrou speaks for length with Rieux about how in reality everyone in the world is infected with plague. It was beautiful when he chapter ended with them swimming in the ocean.

[Melville]

I haven't been reading much lately, partly because Proust isn't maintaining my interest, but I did read a great Sufi poem called The Conference of the Birds, written in the 12th century by Farid Ud-Din Attar. (Sufism is a brand of Islamic mysticism, for those that haven't heard of it.) It's about the birds of the world gathering together to go on a journey to meet God, led by a bird called a hoopoe:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Upupa_epops.jpg/240px-Upupa_epops.jpg
Within this broad allegorical structure, the poem consists mostly of subsidiary allegories, in the form of parables the hoopoe tells in response to the other birds' question about the Way (to God). The whole thing was pretty informative, since I didn't know much about Sufism before (despite reading a couple Sufi poems). Apparently Sufism is all about eradicating the Self, which Attar repeatedly calls the ultimate religious idol; as with Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism (at least as I read it), and probably other religions, the Self is portrayed as an illusion that pulls people away from a true, eternal unity (in this case, God). Given the meaning of Islam (Submission), I guess this view of the Self isn't too surprising. But what makes the whole thing interesting is the idealization of rabid, passionate love as a means of attaining enlightenment. The idea is that in such obsessive love one's focus is entirely outward, making one forget one's Self; if this love goes unreciprocated, then one is left in a state of bewildered emptiness (which should be familiar to anybody who's suffered a bad breakup), which makes it possible for one to embrace the true unity of all things; if the love is reciprocated, then the lovers achieve unity... allowing them to accept the unity of everything else, I suppose. Attar also presents the self-immolation of a moth and the ravings of madmen as ideal ways of life.

Besides being informative and philosophically interesting, the whole poem is very lively and entertaining. The combination of allegory and rhyming couplets occasionally reminded me of Dr. Seuss—in a good way.

[jesse]

Quick thoughts, lamentably fragmented:

A few days ago I finished reading Louis Crompton's epic Homosexuality and Civilization (it's the quickest I've finished a book in a long, long time). I took it on in response to a personal conviction that I didn't want to perpetuate what I see as complete ignorance on the part of many gay people (at least young ones like me) as to where we have come from, which is probably why there seems to be a general feeling that we have no idea where we're going as a community...

Anyway, I went into the book with a few general historical tidbits gleaned elsewhere--that the Greeks were open and actively participated in pederastic relationship, that clearly it was frowned upon in medieval Christian Europe... what I wasn't expecting was the sheer amount of information that has survived about male/male relationships from Greek times that Crompton's lengthy anaylsis could more or less be likened to be a general survey of the era's literature--nearly every major player of the time is in some way included.

And while I didn't expect the Middle Ages to be a garden party for anyone involved, what I didn't expect was the overwhelming intensity of the church's demonization of homosexuals during the course of several hundred years--so much so that all major natural disasters were automatically blamed on the given area's gay population, and there was no way to rally the local faithful than to threaten heaven-ordained destruction a la Sodom and Gomorrah. The degree of torture is head-spinning (it seems public castration--which you weren't expected to survive--was the most common prelude to burning, to the delight of thousands); but what was more shocking was the downright hate of philosophers, theologins, preachers and priests expressed in book after book. What's even more interesting is how China and Japan at the exact same period of time was on the opposite corner on the spectrum of tolerance...

The story (thankfully) gets more entertaining through Louis XIV's France and the courts of sexually dubious monarchs, and the book ends with the frankly inspiring writings of British reformer Jeremy Bentham, whose ideas of equality is a stunningly far cry from even modern day America.

Anyway, a gripping 500 page read--while obviously an impossibility, Crompton's book gives the impression of being exhaustive, and it helps that he's an engaging wordsmith and to the end is admirably fair.

Basically, it's one of those rare books that kind of completely alters the way I look at the world...

[Melville]

Actually, that reminds me that a lot of the parables in The Conference of the Birds were positive portrayals of homosexual love; the author makes no distinction at all between homosexual and heterosexual love affairs. The introduction assures me that homosexuality was frowned upon in Persia at the time, but its preponderance in the poem suggests that it must have been more acceptable than in Europe.

[megladon8]

Finished "The Plague".

I liked it, but didn't love it. Certainly much better than "Love in the Time of Cholera" - the other Nobel Prize winning novel I have read (to my knowledge).

A bleak story with a bleak ending, though I suppose that's to be expected with a book about plague.

[lovejuice]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Upupa_epops.jpg/240px-Upupa_epops.jpg


speaking of freaky coincident! five minutes before reading your post, i just finished borges's short story, the approach to al-mu'tasim, which has a basis in this said sufi poem.

[SpaceOddity]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Upupa_epops.jpg/240px-Upupa_epops.jpg


*used to be fixated with hoopoes*

[lovejuice]

fictions is much better than the book of sand, but not good enough to turn me into a believer. considered it's borges's most famous (best?) work, i'm done with this guy. (**realize my condescending tone, so advance apologize to a fan.**)

[Melville]

*used to be fixated with hoopoes*
Who wouldn't be? Those things are awesome.


fictions is much better than the book of sand, but not good enough to turn me into a believer. considered it's borges's most famous (best?) work, i'm done with this guy. (**realize my condescending tone, so advance apologize to a fan.**)
There's no baffled smiley, so I'll make due with an implied questioning of your mental health: :crazy:

[lovejuice]

There's no baffled smiley, so I'll make due with an implied questioning of your mental health: :crazy:

i think, it has something to do with my rarely having a dream, or to be more scientifically corret, rarely remembering my dream. falsehood and reality seem like two poles around which borges's work revolve. i know a friend of mine who probably loves his shorts since she dreams every night, and always rambles how at the break of dawn she confuses which is dream, and which is reality. (she is a fan of life on mars, if that has any meaning.) i on ther other hand do not dream, so the concept of the existing thin line that separates the two realms has no impact on me.

so yes, it's mental health in a way.

[Qrazy]

I dream to the point where it's almost beginning to impinge on my attitudes towards reality.

[SpaceOddity]

fictions is much better than the book of sand, but not good enough to turn me into a believer. considered it's borges's most famous (best?) work, i'm done with this guy. (**realize my condescending tone, so advance apologize to a fan.**)

Did you read Dreamtigers?

*adores*

[lovejuice]

Did you read Dreamtigers?

*adores*

nope. but if you say so...

[SpaceOddity]

nope. but if you say so...

Tis wonderful. The title piece is about being infiltrated by renounced longings.

*will type it up when less lazy*

[SpaceOddity]

Dreamtigers

In my childhood I was a fervent worshipper of the tiger: not the jaguar, the spotted "tiger" of the Amazonian tangles and the isles of vegetation that float down the Parana, but that striped, Asiatic, royal tiger, that can be faced only by a man of war, on a castle atop an elephant. I used to linger endlessly before one of the cages at the zoo; I judged vast encyclopedias and books of natural history by the splendor of their tigers. (I still remember those illustrations: I who cannot rightly remember the brow or the smile of a woman.) Childhood passed away, and the tigers and my passion for them grew old, but still they are in my dreams. At that submerged or chaotic level they keep prevailing. And so, as I sleep, some dream beguiles me, and suddenly I know I am dreaming. Then I think: This is a dream, a pure manifestation of my will; and now that I have unlimited power, I am going to cause a tiger.
Oh, incompetence! Never can my dreams engender the wild beast I long for. The tiger indeed appears, but stuffed or flimsy, or with impure variations of shape, or of an implausible size, or all too fleeting, or with a touch of the dog or the bird.

*sniffs*

[megladon8]

So I've decided the next book I will read is Christopher Moore's "Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal".

I read the first chapter this evening, and it's quite funny.

[Melville]

i think, it has something to do with my rarely having a dream, or to be more scientifically corret, rarely remembering my dream. falsehood and reality seem like two poles around which borges's work revolve. i know a friend of mine who probably loves his shorts since she dreams every night, and always rambles how at the break of dawn she confuses which is dream, and which is reality. (she is a fan of life on mars, if that has any meaning.) i on ther other hand do not dream, so the concept of the existing thin line that separates the two realms has no impact on me.

so yes, it's mental health in a way.
I don't usually remember my dreams, either, but I love Fictions. With crystalline precision and remarkable invention, its stories break down or extrapolate from the notions of reality that we normally take for granted. That seems interesting regardless of whether it's associated with "dream logic" or the unreality of dreams.

I definitely need a baffled smiley. Consider me baffled.

[lovejuice]

I don't usually remember my dreams, either, but I love Fictions. With crystalline precision and remarkable invention, its stories break down or extrapolate from the notions of reality that we normally take for granted. That seems interesting regardless of whether it's associated with "dream logic" or the unreality of dreams.

I definitely need a baffled smiley. Consider me baffled.

to be fair there are certain stories that i adore, tlon, uqbar, orbis tertius and the lottery in babylon. other "reviews" are, i find, mere derivatives of tlon, uqbar, orbis tertius. pierre menard, author of the quixote is fun, but during certain moments the tone is too tongue-in-cheek, and thus the illusion is broken.

for some reason, i just don't find "the broken down or extrapolation from the notions of reality that we normally take for granted" that interesting a subject. thus i really like the lottery in babylon which i think goes beyond that simple concept and shows the death of god in a post-modernistic/quantum world where hard-edged chance is everything.

[jesse]

Finished The Picture of Dorian Gray last night, and despite liking some bits, I ended up being pretty indifferent towards it... When focused on Dorian Gray's dilemma it was gripping, but everything else was pretty "meh"--I got tired of characters constantly taking time to wax lyrical about the lilacs in springtime or some other cliched example of beauty, and it's been a while since I've been as annoyed with a character as I have been with Lord Henry. I'm convinced now that a person who spoke only in epigrams would be one of the very rare situations that would incite me to violence...

[SpaceOddity]

Finished The Picture of Dorian Gray last night, and despite liking some bits, I ended up being pretty indifferent towards it... When focused on Dorian Gray's dilemma it was gripping, but everything else was pretty "meh"--I got tired of characters constantly taking time to wax lyrical about the lilacs in springtime or some other cliched example of beauty, and it's been a while since I've been as annoyed with a character as I have been with Lord Henry. I'm convinced now that a person who spoke only in epigrams would be one of the very rare situations that would incite me to violence...

Heathcliff doesn't speak in epigrams.

*lures*

[Melville]

to be fair there are certain stories that i adore, tlon, uqbar, orbis tertius and the lottery in babylon.
Well, as long as you like Tlon, Uqbar, you're all right with me.


Finished The Picture of Dorian Gray last night, and despite liking some bits, I ended up being pretty indifferent towards it... When focused on Dorian Gray's dilemma it was gripping, but everything else was pretty "meh"--I got tired of characters constantly taking time to wax lyrical about the lilacs in springtime or some other cliched example of beauty, and it's been a while since I've been as annoyed with a character as I have been with Lord Henry. I'm convinced now that a person who spoke only in epigrams would be one of the very rare situations that would incite me to violence...
Definitely. Although Dorian Grey's dilemma was nothing but trite melodrama.

[lovejuice]

Finished The Picture of Dorian Gray last night, and despite liking some bits, I ended up being pretty indifferent towards it... When focused on Dorian Gray's dilemma it was gripping, but everything else was pretty "meh".

the novel is actually full of wrong turns. wilde makes a lot of weird decision, and it's obvious the novel he wants to write is very different from the one i want to read.

the girl-lover and her brother are both killed off way too easily. (and yet the moment gray sees how lousy an actress she can be is among the best scene i've ever read.) what's supposed to be a dickensian characters' drama is turned into a Dorian Gray's one man show.

the brother should be some sorta monte cristo character. a revengeful soul who pushes gray over the edge. as it is, i find it hard to sympatize with gray's dilemma.

[megladon8]

I'm really enjoying the hell out of Christopher Moore's "Lamb".

What a funny and very well written book.

He has both sophisticated and potty humor, but he writes both with such a sarcastic tone which - somewhat like "South Park" (not in tone, but in purpose) - picks on everyone, instead of just certain groups/minorities. But none of it is offensive in the least.

I'm only 50 pages in (and it's a 400 page book), so I hope to get some major reading done this week on the bus.

[Duncan]

Finished Sputnik Sweetheart. Not that impressed overall. It seems like a less interesting version of L'Avventura. I didn't find any of Murakami's prose on longing or isolation compelling. Maybe that's because it's a translation, but I've read plenty of translated books that didn't have this problem. He often just resorted to lines like "there was something about her" to describe the indescribable. But that's, like, the author's job - putting into words those feelings the rest of us can't. I also found a lot of his metaphors rather tired. Sometime down the road I might read The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle, but not for a while.

[Duncan]

I've also read bits and pieces of this book called Stupid to the Last Drop, which is a polemic criticizing the Alberta oil sands. I probably won't read the whole thing, but skipping around is sort of interesting. It's just too antagonizing for me to take very seriously. I mean, I agree with the guy and I still find him annoying.

[Benny Profane]

Finished The Trial. It was pretty good. Now reading Ted Williams' biography.

[jesse]

Heathcliff doesn't speak in epigrams.

*lures* :lol: You're absolutely right.


Definitely. Although Dorian Grey's dilemma was nothing but trite melodrama. True, but it made for some memorable sequences, and it made me pause a few times in reflection. He was more interesting at the beginning of the book and become less compelling as a character as his story rambled on.

[jesse]

the novel is actually full of wrong turns. wilde makes a lot of weird decision, and it's obvious the novel he wants to write is very different from the one i want to read.

the girl-lover and her brother are both killed off way too easily. (and yet the moment gray sees how lousy an actress she can be is among the best scene i've ever read.) what's supposed to be a dickensian characters' drama is turned into a Dorian Gray's one man show.

the brother should be some sorta monte cristo character. a revengeful soul who pushes gray over the edge. as it is, i find it hard to sympatize with gray's dilemma. You know, you might have hit upon my problem with the book too. What do you think of Wilde's plays? I've only read Importance of Being Earnest (though might try another in the near future) but I'm much more accepting of such glittery artifice (and epigrams) in play form. I wonder why...

In retrospect, the Sybil Vane sections are easily the best and most memorable in the entire novel. She could have become a really fascinating character and perhaps more importantly, a counterweight to the insular Dorian/Lord Henry (because even though he showed promise in the first chapter or two, Basil sure turns out to be a rather dull non-entity. Wilde just drops him out of the story for chapters and chapters!). Or if anything, as you say, the same dynamic could have been picked up by the appearance of her brother. Wilde seemed to be setting him up for a dramatic showdown, but bizarely avoids it entirely.

Yeah, definitely a disappointment, though for some reason I wasn't expecting a whole lot despite its massive reputation.

[Qrazy]

I love how everyone's in the thread's like oh yeah The Trial's pretty good, alright, it's ok... when it's pretty much one of the cornerstones of all modern literature. I'll turn you all into verwandelts!

In other news about 1/3 through The Sound and the Fury.

[jesse]

I love how everyone's in the thread's like oh yeah The Trial's pretty good, alright, it's ok... when it's pretty much one of the cornerstones of all modern literature. I'll turn you all into verwandelts! I haven't commented on The Trial specifically, but I'm not a Kafka fan. His style works best in short form, I think; I only got about 1/3 through The Castle and was done with it...

[Qrazy]

I haven't commented on The Trial specifically, but I'm not a Kafka fan. His style works best in short form, I think; I only got about 1/3 through The Castle and was done with it...

Pity.

Kafka, Joyce, Brecht, Beckett, and Eliot and a handful of others are all pretty much essential in my opinion for a decent understanding of the history of modern lit... it's influences... where it came from and what it led to. Which is not to say that they and then the canon are not beyond reproach, just that they are historically crucial.

[Qrazy]

You know, you might have hit upon my problem with the book too. What do you think of Wilde's plays? I've only read Importance of Being Earnest (though might try another in the near future) but I'm much more accepting of such glittery artifice (and epigrams) in play form.

An Ideal Husband

[jesse]

Pity.

Kafka, Joyce, Brecht, Beckett, and Eliot and a handful of others are all pretty much essential in my opinion for a decent understanding of the history of modern lit... it's influences... where it came from and what it led to. Which is not to say that they and then the canon are not beyond reproach, just that they are historically crucial. Well, I'm the Woolf fanatic, who I see is conspicuously missing from your list. ;)

I don't deny Kafka's influence--he certainly looms over literature, particularly in the development of modernism--it's just that I don't particularly care to read him.

[Duncan]

Pretty sure I said this a few pages back, but The Trial is a masterpiece. One of my favorite books.

Halfway through Rilke's Duino Elegies. I started reading it because Pynchon makes multiple references in Gravity's Rainbow. It's some of the best poetry I've ever read.

Also, I'm attempting Woolf's To the Lighthouse once more. This may earn me negative rep around here, but I've never made it through the entirety of one of her books.

[jesse]

Also, I'm attempting Woolf's To the Lighthouse once more. This may earn me negative rep around here, but I've never made it through the entirety of one of her books. What have you attempted?

You'd probably have a better chance of getting all the way through Mrs. Dalloway the first time around.

[megladon8]

Has anyone here read any of the literature by Leonard Cohen?

Being a Canadian I feel like there's a great gap in my personal library where his books should be.

Is there a book by him that's best to start with? A friend of mine recommended both "Beautiful Losers" and "The Favorite Game", and I remember him mentioning that one is better than the other to start with, but it escapes me which one it was.

[Qrazy]

Well, I'm the Woolf fanatic, who I see is conspicuously missing from your list. ;)

I don't deny Kafka's influence--he certainly looms over literature, particularly in the development of modernism--it's just that I don't particularly care to read him.

She'd make a fleshed out list, but I consider Kafka and Joyce's influence more far reaching.

[Qrazy]

Can someone recommend me DH Lawrence's best works?

[lovejuice]

Can someone recommend me DH Lawrence's best works?

i only read son and lover, which is interesting, but can be flowery at times.

[SpaceOddity]

Can someone recommend me DH Lawrence's best works?

I've only read Lady Chatterley's Lover.

*detested*

[Melville]

Can someone recommend me DH Lawrence's best works?
Of his novels, I've only read Sons and Lovers. It's depiction of familial relationships was moderately interesting, and it did a decent job of evoking a certain time-period. I've also read a couple of his later short stories and essays, which are horribly repetitive and obvious.

Also, The Trial is a masterpiece. And, jesse, I think it's short enough to maintain its momentum without being overwhelmed by Kafka's single-minded style (it's only about 200 hundred pages).

Oh, and Mrs. Dalloway >> To the Lighthouse.

[Duncan]

What have you attempted?

You'd probably have a better chance of getting all the way through Mrs. Dalloway the first time around.

I've tried To the Lighthouse twice. And I tried another one in high school, but now I can't remember which one. I don't think I got more than 15 pages in, so I probably didn't give it a fair shake.

[Melville]

I've tried To the Lighthouse twice. And I tried another one in high school, but now I can't remember which one. I don't think I got more than 15 pages in, so I probably didn't give it a fair shake.
Frankly, I find Woolf's prose horribly flowery, and her descriptions too often take the form of trite (in my opinion) similes. Also, I thought that her representation of female versus male thought patterns in To the Lighthouse was awfully simplistic. However, Mrs. Dalloway has a lot of good stuff in it.

[lovejuice]

I love how everyone's in the thread's like oh yeah The Trial's pretty good, alright, it's ok... when it's pretty much one of the cornerstones of all modern literature. I'll turn you all into verwandelts!

In other news about 1/3 through The Sound and the Fury.

i don't doubt kafka's influence on world literatures. i a bit doubt if he's actually that good. (he is very good. i'm not trying to say otherwise.) kundera used to write an essay on how kafka as we know him is merely a creature of max brod. i'm not well-versed enough in kafka to make any further comments. (kundera probably like kafka a lot though based on his other writing.)

and i'm with jesse. i'll take woolfe over kafka any day.

so are you reading the melancholy of resistance soon?

[Sycophant]

I pretty much need to repeat the fact that The Trial is just about my favorite thing that I've ever read.

[Duncan]

I finished Rilke's Duino Elegies last night. My feeling is that everyone should read it/them. I'm no expert in poetry, but this is about the best stuff I've ever read.

edit: Although, judging from a quick internet perusal, I would be careful what translation you read.

[Qrazy]

i don't doubt kafka's influence on world literatures. i a bit doubt if he's actually that good. (he is very good. i'm not trying to say otherwise.) kundera used to write an essay on how kafka as we know him is merely a creature of max brod. i'm not well-versed enough in kafka to make any further comments. (kundera probably like kafka a lot though based on his other writing.)

and i'm with jesse. i'll take woolfe over kafka any day.

so are you reading the melancholy of resistance soon?

Hopefully, still haven't gotten it yet.

[jesse]

I've tried To the Lighthouse twice. And I tried another one in high school, but now I can't remember which one. I don't think I got more than 15 pages in, so I probably didn't give it a fair shake. Well, I still maintain Lighthouse is a bad place to start... in Mrs. Dalloway you at least have a binding central figure and it's easier to perceive the general plotline. Lighthouse flitters all over the place and constantly indulges in lengthy digressions, making it inevitably harder to follow. Plus it has a three times as many main characters as Mrs. D. does.

But I think it's a marvelous book--I was rereading some passages yesterday after watching a horrendous film adaptation--and I hope you end up liking it.



I finished Rilke's Duino Elegies last night. My feeling is that everyone should read it/them. I'm no expert in poetry, but this is about the best stuff I've ever read.

edit: Although, judging from a quick internet perusal, I would be careful what translation you read. You've piqued my interest. Which translation did you use?

[jesse]

Also, The Trial is a masterpiece. And, jesse, I think it's short enough to maintain its momentum without being overwhelmed by Kafka's single-minded style (it's only about 200 hundred pages). I read it years ago and liked it well enough, I guess. But I was kind of at that early stage when I let a book's canonical status influence my judgement...


Oh, and Mrs. Dalloway >> To the Lighthouse. I don't agree, but it's liking choosing a favorite between one's children, and The Waves some days has the edge on both...

[jesse]

Frankly, I find Woolf's prose horribly flowery, and her descriptions too often take the form of trite (in my opinion) similes. Also, I thought that her representation of female versus male thought patterns in To the Lighthouse was awfully simplistic. However, Mrs. Dalloway has a lot of good stuff in it. Well, to each his own, but I wonder if you'd expound on the sentence in bold a little? I bristled as at first but one second thought I don't know if I neccesarily disagree--but then, I've never really focused on the character of Mr. Ramsay, as my central concern has always been with the character of Lily and/or Mrs. Ramsay...

[Mysterious Dude]

The last two books I read were Their Eyes Were Watching God and A Clockwork Orange. I had kind of similar experiences reading both of them. At first, I was very impressed by the creative use of the language, but as I read on, I got used to it, and the writing didn't seem as impressive to me. I noticed the authors using the same words or phrases over and over again. It was not quite as majestic as I initially thought.

[Melville]

Well, to each his own, but I wonder if you'd expound on the sentence in bold a little? I bristled as at first but one second thought I don't know if I neccesarily disagree--but then, I've never really focused on the character of Mr. Ramsay, as my central concern has always been with the character of Lily and/or Mrs. Ramsay...
As I recall, Mr. Ramsay's thoughts were simplistically analytical and Mrs. Ramsay's were simplistically intuitive and emotional. That struck me as being an exaggerated division.

[Duncan]

You've piqued my interest. Which translation did you use? I read a translation by David Young. He actually alters the line structure, choosing to break Rilke's longer lines into threes. I was skeptical at first, but Young has a good sense of pacing. And he knows what words to group together on each line.


Poetry has got to be way hard to translate.

[D_Davis]

Stephen King's, Duma Key, drops today. Sounds interesting, I'll probably pick it up. But 600 pages? Man, that's too long!

[Kurosawa Fan]

So there's this used book store within walking distance of my house. I've never managed to get in there because the hours are bad (11-6, M-F; 12-3 Sat.), though I've always wanted to. Today I had the day off, and the kids were gone to school and day care, so I decided to make a point to finally go in there. What a disappointment. 80% of the store is cheesy romance novels, or what I call Rite Aid Porn. There was a tiny section of literature, and nothing worth purchasing. What a waste.

[megladon8]

I just read the greatest sounding book synopsis of all-time...

The Stansbury School's class of 2036—"flagship editions of youth"—are "bred... for top-of-the-line performance," poised to matriculate at the best colleges and destined to dominate the private and public sectors. After a 12-year regimen of chemical enhancement, conditioning and ideology inside Stansbury's high-rise virtual prison, in the megalopolis of San Angeles, these co-ed high school students, known as "specimens" in Kalstein's cautionary debut, emerge a master race of ninja-assassin geniuses.


For this book called "Prodigy" by Dave Kalstein.

[jenniferofthejungle]

So there's this used book store within walking distance of my house. I've never managed to get in there because the hours are bad (11-6, M-F; 12-3 Sat.), though I've always wanted to. Today I had the day off, and the kids were gone to school and day care, so I decided to make a point to finally go in there. What a disappointment. 80% of the store is cheesy romance novels, or what I call Rite Aid Porn. There was a tiny section of literature, and nothing worth purchasing. What a waste.

Rite Aid porn. :lol:

Sorry it was a waste of time, KF.

I have The Road coming in from my library and that's what I'm going to focus on next. I'm already two books behind in my plan to read a book a week this year. :sad:

[SpaceOddity]

Has anyone here read any of the literature by Leonard Cohen?

Being a Canadian I feel like there's a great gap in my personal library where his books should be.

Is there a book by him that's best to start with? A friend of mine recommended both "Beautiful Losers" and "The Favorite Game", and I remember him mentioning that one is better than the other to start with, but it escapes me which one it was.

I've read Beautiful Losers.

*liked*

[Duncan]

I've read Cohen's Book of Longing. It's poetry, not a novel. I liked it. Adore his music.