The Book Discussion Thread

[jesse]

From Moby Dick, mostly sticking with at least partially humorous quotations: I made a t-shirt with the quote "Better to sleep with a sober cannibal than a drunken Christian" on the front.

It partially redeemed the time I spent reading that book.

[Benny Profane]

ATTENTION K-MART SHOPPERS

If you've ever been bored at work and wished you could be at home reading a book instead, I found the next best thing.

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/

They have a pretty extensive collection of books online that you can read 'cover to cover' all the while pretending that you're focusing hard on your computer.

You're welcome.

[jenniferofthejungle]

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/


You're welcome.

Thank you. I bookmarked it even though I no longer read books online due to raging headaches.

I started reading Atonement last night (even though I was supposed to finish the Chronicles of Narnia before beginning this one) and I really like it so far, but I'm almost dreading the end. :)

[Benny Profane]

Oh, did I forget to mention it is free?

[Benny Profane]

Thank you. I bookmarked it even though I no longer read books online due to raging headaches.



No longer? I didn't realize this was even an option until 15 minutes ago.

Yes, I see this being best used for short stories and novellas, and not, say, Anna Karenina (which is available, btw).

[Marley]

Anyone read The Time Traveler's Wife?

[megladon8]

Anyone read The Time Traveler's Wife?


Yes, I read it about 6 weeks ago...wrote about it on the old forum.

I loved it. Very romantic.

[megladon8]

I'm now more than half way through "A Confederacy of Dunces". I am finding that I will sit down to read a chapter, and end up reading 50-80 pages.

It's great.

Ignatious just got the job as a hotdog vendor. It was hilarious when he did his first hour-long run, didn't sell any hotdogs but ate 4 of them, and tried to convince the guy he had been robbed at gunpoint. :)

[Marley]

Yes, I read it about 6 weeks ago...wrote about it on the old forum.

I loved it. Very romantic.

Nice. I'm reading it right now and can't seem to put it down.

[Marley]

I'm now more than half way through "A Confederacy of Dunces". I am finding that I will sit down to read a chapter, and end up reading 50-80 pages.

It's great.

Ignatious just got the job as a hotdog vendor. It was hilarious when he did his first hour-long run, didn't sell any hotdogs but ate 4 of them, and tried to convince the guy he had been robbed at gunpoint. :)

What a great book and that particular scene was the funniest part of the book for me. Just the idea of this man dressed up in a pirate suit pushing around a hot-dog stand is hysterical. While many would argue that the book is pure comedic gold I found the majority of it to be rather depressing.

[megladon8]

I can see how it could be seen as depressing, but I am finding it to generally just be a type of humor I really appreciate.

I want to be able to liken it to a film or something, but there's absolutely nothing out there - that I can think of - which I could compare it to. It's like Wes Anderson meets Monty Python meets the Coens meets I don't know what else.

And I'm glad you're enjoying "The Time Traveller's Wife" - it's the book that's single-handedly repsonsible for getting me back into reading mode this fall.

[Marley]

I can see how it could be seen as depressing, but I am finding it to generally just be a type of humor I really appreciate.

I want to be able to liken it to a film or something, but there's absolutely nothing out there - that I can think of - which I could compare it to. It's like Wes Anderson meets Monty Python meets the Coens meets I don't know what else.

And I'm glad you're enjoying "The Time Traveller's Wife" - it's the book that's single-handedly repsonsible for getting me back into reading mode this fall.

Yes, I suppose my serious lack of humor prevented me from fully appreciating the comedic aspects of the novel. Igantius is a character that I could relate to on a very personal level sans the high level intellectualism with the social awkwardness, the immaturity, the loneliness, the struggle to achieve something notable, failed relationships, etc.

Confederacy of Dunces seems to be an esoteric piece of literature but your comparisons seems apt and I'd be willing to go along with that.

I was weary at first by the length of "The Time Traveler's Wife" only to quickly find that it was completely absorbing from the first opening pages. The concept may not be particular oringal but the author infuses such an enrapturous love story within this scientific/philosophical anomaly making it completely fascinating throughout.

[megladon8]

I was weary at first by the length of "The Time Traveler's Wife" only to quickly find that it was completely absorbing from the first opening pages. The concept may not be particular oringal but the author infuses such an enrapturous love story within this scientific/philosophical anomaly making it completely fascinating throughout.


I also think there's something to be said for her ability to make the book so easy to read and understand.

With all the jumping around in time, it could easily have become a hugely confusing mess.

But it all flows so easily.

And yes, I was a little worried about the length as well, but I read it in a flash.

[Melville]

I made a t-shirt with the quote "Better to sleep with a sober cannibal than a drunken Christian" on the front.

It partially redeemed the time I spent reading that book.
:|

[lovejuice]

I made a t-shirt with the quote "Better to sleep with a sober cannibal than a drunken Christian" on the front.

It partially redeemed the time I spent reading that book.

my favorite quote t-shirt is bertrand russell's "the problem with this world is that the stupid is cocksure, and the intelligent is full of doubt."

[lovejuice]

After Life (Koreeda)

totally off topic but since i haven't seen you in the FDT. you're perhaps the first person on this forum that doesn't like this movie. me neither actually.

did you see nobody knows. i sort of have to watch it because it's this girl's favorite film.

[Marley]

I'm not a supporter of After Life at all either. With such an interesting concept I was appalled by how boring it was. Probably not the most valid criticism but there was a certain lack of audacity and the plot sludged along. Meh.

[Marley]

I also think there's something to be said for her ability to make the book so easy to read and understand.

With all the jumping around in time, it could easily have become a hugely confusing mess.

But it all flows so easily.

And yes, I was a little worried about the length as well, but I read it in a flash.

That's a great point especially the number of plot holes which could have occurred which she does a great job of taking care of. I'll admit that some of his time traveling was a bit jarring at first and it was difficult to wrap my head around his particular instances of his journey especially when he encountered other versions of himself. After a while it began to make more sense.

[Horbgorbler]

The Sea, The Sea is exceptional so far.

I read Dreamtigers at Barnes & Noble, per Cello's request, but it needed much more time to properly digest (and I feel unequipped to fully comprehend but very little of it.)

[Benny Profane]

An excerpt from Gravity's Rainbow:


Kekulé dreams the Great Serpent holding its own tail in its mouth, the dreaming Serpent which surrounds the World. But the meanness, the cynicism with which this dream is to be used. The Serpent that announces, "The World is a closed thing, cyclical, resonant, eternally-returning," is to be delivered into a system whose only aim is to violate the Cycle. Taking and not giving back, demanding that "productivity" and "earnings" keep on increasing with time, the System removing from the rest of the World these vast quantities of energy to keep its own tiny desperate fraction showing a profit: and not only most of humanity -- most of the World, animal, vegetable, and mineral, is laid waste in the process. The System may or may not understand that it's only buying time. And that time is an artificial resource to begin with, of no value to anyone or anything but the System, which must sooner or later crash to its death, when its addiction to energy has become more than the rest of the World can supply, dragging with it innocent souls all along the chain of life.

[Llopin]

Any Brodsky fans around?

I'm reading some of his essays, which are proving to be most enlightening.

[Marley]

I'm going to finish reading "The Time Traveler's Wife" tonight and need to decide on what to read next. Any suggestions?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Lolita.

[D_Davis]

The Demolished Man - Alfred Bester

[SpaceOddity]

Lolita.

I've had this one scene stuck in my head for sooooooooo long and can't exorcise it cos I lent a friend my copy.

*shakes fist at self*

[SpaceOddity]

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.u k/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/fiction/article1652629.ece

The horror.

[Marley]

Lolita.

We have a winner. Thanks.

[lovejuice]

The Sea, The Sea is exceptional so far.


eagerly awaiting for your thought.

among my favorite books, this one is least read. in fact murdoch is criminally under-rated. and that mediocre movie doesn't help either.

[Kurosawa Fan]

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.u k/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/fiction/article1652629.ece

The horror.

:eek: :confused: :cry:

All three of those emotions are coursing through me right now. That's disgusting, and wrong on just about every level.

[Sycophant]

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.u k/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/fiction/article1652629.ece

The horror.I am going to read every book they publish (that I haven't read yet) in all its original glory just to spite their snip-happy asses.

[Sven]

But people have been selling abridged versions of books for years...

[Kurosawa Fan]

But people have been selling abridged versions of books for years...

"People" were wrong then, and they're wrong now. Abridged versions of anything should be against the law.

[lovejuice]

"People" were wrong then, and they're wrong now. Abridged versions of anything should be against the law.

for the sake of argument, how are you going to introduce classics to school kids? especially if the kids live in a non-english-speaking country. i remember having to read abridged hunchback of notredam back then. am not sure did it do me more good or bad.

the idea behind that link -- abriged version for common people and grown-up -- is just plain retard though.

[Sycophant]

The sin here really is in the marketing. The idea that what they're doing is scrapping the superfluous fluff so you can get to the real essence of the story, that that qualifies as the book is obscene.

When I read the abridged version of David Copperfield in high school, I knew damn well that I was not getting the full experience. I regret it, too, as I was only reading so I could pass comprehension exams, and these days, I underand just how much Dickens rocks. :confused:

[Kurosawa Fan]

for the sake of argument, how are you going to introduce classics to school kids? especially if the kids live in a non-english-speaking country. i remember having to read abridged hunchback of notredam back then. am not sure did it do me more good or bad.


Have them read classics at their own level (there are plenty) and save the good stuff for when they're ready, not only to read it but to understand and relate to the themes within the work.

[lovejuice]

Have them read classics at their own level (there are plenty) and save the good stuff for when they're ready, not only to read it but to understand and relate to the themes within the work.

but the level of language skill, in a foreign country, will never match kids' maturity. for example i will be surprise if any 12th grader in thailand can read...tom sawyer?...no, harry potter. my friend who had not a chance to study abroad cannot read the first book even when she was a college sophomore.

the situation, however, is slightly better now. thank to the potter series, more kids try to develope their language skills in order to not having to wait for the translation.

come to think of it, if any book deserves abridgement, it's potter series! :twisted:

[Sven]

I don't know... while I'm definitely all for full and pure quality and wouldn't ever pick up a cut-up novel, I don't think I can rightfully say that abridgements are all that useless. Seems like it's one of those necessary evils. You know... lame people thinking to themselves "I wanna read that, but there're so many pages" kind of thing.

[Kurosawa Fan]

but the level of language skill, in a foreign country, will never match kids' maturity. for example i will be surprise if any 12th grader in thailand can read...tom sawyer?...no, harry potter. my friend who had not a chance to study abroad cannot read the first book even when she was a college sophomore.

the situation, however, is slightly better now. thank to the potter series, more kids try to develope their language skills in order to not having to wait for the translation.

come to think of it, if any book deserves abridgement, it's potter series! :twisted:

I was speaking about abridged versions for kids, not for foreign countries. I don't know much about that, so I can't offer an opinion. Still, if you create dumbed-down, easy-reading versions of classics for foreign countries, they aren't really reading the novel, are they? They're reading cliff notes. It's not the same. Perhaps they should either polish their language skills or read classics in their own language. Why can't the full novels be translated? I find that what makes my favorite novels so special isn't just the story, but the way they're written. You lose that by abridging.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I don't know... while I'm definitely all for full and pure quality and wouldn't ever pick up a cut-up novel, I don't think I can rightfully say that abridgements are all that useless. Seems like it's one of those necessary evils. You know... lame people thinking to themselves "I wanna read that, but there're so many pages" kind of thing.

Then don't read it. I get tired of people being made to feel inferior because they don't read. Who cares? There are millions of things to do every day of your life. If you don't read classic novels, so be it. But reading some slimmed-down version of a classic isn't reading the novel. It doesn't count. You're reading the story. Anyone can tell a story. That's not what makes these books special. The way they're written is what makes them special, and that can't come through when you're cutting out 30-40% of the novel and changing sentences to read easier. It just can't.

[Sven]

Then don't read it. I get tired of people being made to feel inferior because they don't read. Who cares? There are millions of things to do every day of your life. If you don't read classic novels, so be it. But reading some slimmed-down version of a classic isn't reading the novel. It doesn't count. You're reading the story. Anyone can tell a story. That's not what makes these books special. The way they're written is what makes them special, and that can't come through when you're cutting out 30-40% of the novel and changing sentences to read easier. It just can't.

Here we get into the pesky issue of translating foreign works and how one can justify reading anything but the original text in the original language (because different translators, no doubt, end up telling the story differently, so you're not quite getting the same thing).

Hey, I think it's stupid too. But if there're a few bucks to be made off people's laziness, I don't see how it's such a detriment. In fact, if you think about it, this is ONLY going to be helpful. Who's it gonna hurt?

[megladon8]

Then don't read it. I get tired of people being made to feel inferior because they don't read. Who cares? There are millions of things to do every day of your life. If you don't read classic novels, so be it. But reading some slimmed-down version of a classic isn't reading the novel. It doesn't count. You're reading the story. Anyone can tell a story. That's not what makes these books special. The way they're written is what makes them special, and that can't come through when you're cutting out 30-40% of the novel and changing sentences to read easier. It just can't.


Yes, literary snobs...they are on my "worstest things ever" list.

There used to be one or two of them on the old board...I haven't seen them around the new one yet. I wonder what happened to them.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Here we get into the pesky issue of translating foreign works and how one can justify reading anything but the original text in the original language (because different translators, no doubt, end up telling the story differently, so you're not quite getting the same thing).

Hey, I think it's stupid too. But if there're a few bucks to be made off people's laziness, I don't see how it's such a detriment. In fact, if you think about it, this is ONLY going to be helpful. Who's it gonna hurt?

Not really. Translating is just that. It's doing your best to preserve the author's style and tone while converting to a different language. Abridging is removing text and therefore changing the style and tone of a novel for no good reason other than to "make it shorter" for the increasing number of impatient, I-want-it-now people in our society. Like I said, if you don't feel you have the time to sit down with a 600 page novel, then read something else. The logic that "reading two 300 page novels" is somehow better than reading a 600 page novel is absurd, and isn't logical at all. If a novel is good, why would you want it to end sooner?

And this does hurt someone. It hurts the idiots. They don't need to be making any more idiotic choices than necessary. This gives them another opportunity. Seriously though, it hurts the original artistic vision these writers had, and it's a bad trend to start.

[D_Davis]

Beyond the work of Stephen King, I tend to gravitate towards shorter books. Most of my favorite books are right around 200 pages. This seemed to be the magic number for a great deal of profoundly awesome science fiction novels. It is weird though, if you go through the winners of the Hugo award for best sci-fi novel, the books tend to get longer and longer as the years go on. I think that most genre books are far too long now days. Even most of King's books are far too long for the story being told. I prefer short, hard hitting, concise novels with concrete language. There seems to be a misconception that a book's merit is directly related to its length, and we all know that this just ain't true.

[megladon8]

I don't care how long a book is as long as its length suits the story.

"Crime and Punishment" is super long, but I was never bored - it all flowed nicely, there was always something interesting going on, and I didn't come across any portions of the book where I felt "geez, this all feels like filler".

Similarly, "I Am Legend" is a mere 170 pages give-or-take, and I thought it was the perfect length...it never wore out its welcome, and I also felt that I got everything out if it that I wanted to.

[D_Davis]

I tend to get more out of short novels. Or, in other words, the novels I've gotten the most out of have been short.

[Melville]

I don't care how long a book is as long as its length suits the story.
Yeah, I don't see how any particular length would be generally preferable to any other.

I also have no problem with abridged versions of books; they're basically just reworkings of the material by new "authors". I read abridged versions of Les Miserables, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and The Count of Monte Cristo when I was a kid, when the full versions would have been just too damn long (especially in the case of Les Miserables), and I loved all three. They helped develop my love of literature, and I still think of them fondly, even though I'm aware that I didn't read the novels that the authors intended. More recently I've read severely abridged versions of The Mahabarata and The Ramayana, which gave me some knowledge of Hindu mythology that I never would have gained otherwise. However, all of these versions attempted to maintain the original writing style; books rewritten in more "modern" prose tend to be just plain bad.

[Sven]

I also have no problem with abridged versions of books; they're basically just reworkings of the material by new "authors". I read abridged versions of Les Miserables, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and The Count of Monte Cristo when I was a kid, when the full versions would have been just too damn long (especially in the case of Les Miserables), and I loved all three. They helped develop my love of literature, and I still think of them fondly, even though I'm aware that I didn't read the novels that the authors intended. More recently I've read severely abridged versions of The Mahabarata and The Ramayana, which gave me some knowledge of Hindu mythology that I never would have gained otherwise. However, all of these versions attempted to maintain the original writing style; books rewritten in more "modern" prose tend to be just plain bad.

I think this is well put. One of my favorite books ever is the 600 some odd abridgement of Les Miserables. I've tried picking up the full text at least three times and can't get passed page 100 every time. One of these days I'll do it, I promise. But still, the 600 page abridged version was close to a profound experience for me, literature-wise. Maybe that's why I can see the benefit.

KF, you make good points that I agree with (although I don't think I'd use the word "idiots" to describe those that are too lazy to read all 600 pages of Don Quixote, great book by the way). But this wouldn't be starting a "new trend". Abridged versions have been around since books were written, I'm sure. Or, at least, since public education has been around. :)

[megladon8]

Any Christopher Moore fans on here?

What would you say his best work is?

[Melville]

all 600 pages of Don Quixote
Hm.. my copy is almost 900 pages. Are you opting for all abridged books, or just editions with really tiny font?

[D_Davis]

Any Christopher Moore fans on here?

What would you say his best work is?

My wife has been reading his stuff. She really liked You Suck, and I really want to read Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal.

On another note...

I got a mega-haul of science fiction today:

A Case of Conscience (reading next)
The Seedling Stars - James Blish
Starshine
The Ultimate Egoist - Theodore Sturgeon
The Gods Themselves - Isaac Asmiov
The Dispossessed - Ursula K. Le Guin
The Stars My Destination (a new trade edition) - Alfred Bester
Tower of Glass - Robert Silverberg
Hyperion Cantos - Dan Simmons
Dangerous Visions (nice hardback edition) - ed. Harlen Ellison
Cosmicomics - Italo Calvino

While eating some sushi for dinner tonight, I read through the three introductions, written by Ray Bradbury, Arthur C. Clarke, and Gene Wolf, to Theodore Sturgeon's The Ultimate Egoist, the first of ten volumes of collected short stories. I love what each of these authors had to say about Sturgeon:

Bradbury:

The worst thing you can say about an author's style is that it bored you; the most complimentary thing I can think of to say of Sturgeon is that I hated his damned, efficient, witty guts. And yet because he had the thing for which I was looking, originality (always rare in the pulps), I was forced, in an agony of jealousy, to return again and again to his stories, to dissect, to pull apart, to re-examine the bones.

Clarke:

Ted's stories have an emotional impact umatched by almost any other writer.

Wolf:

[Talking about a book of short stories his mother gave him...] The first story I read was "Microcosmic God" by Theodore Sturgeon. It has sometimes occurred to me that it has all been downhill from there.


As I finished More Than Human this morning, I must concur with these masters' praise of Sturgeon. He is an author of unprecedented depth, character, and emotion. I didn't so much read the book, as I experienced its world, its characters, and its incredible humanity.

[megladon8]

That's quite the haul you got, D.

I've read one by Silverberg...it was called "Son of Man".

It's incredibly philosophical/existential. And it doesn't really have a plot - rather, each chapter examines different facets of man.

It's really fascinating, and I definitely recommend it. It's also quite sex-filled :P

[Kurosawa Fan]

KF, you make good points that I agree with (although I don't think I'd use the word "idiots" to describe those that are too lazy to read all 600 pages of Don Quixote, great book by the way). But this wouldn't be starting a "new trend". Abridged versions have been around since books were written, I'm sure. Or, at least, since public education has been around. :)

The "idiots" comment was obviously tongue-in-cheek, which is why I followed it up with "seriously though" and made a completely separate point. And I didn't call it a new trend, just a trend. Previous abridged version were mainly made for either children or for Reader's Digest subscribers. This is aimed specifically at adults who don't want to take the time to read the entire book. Like I said, there's cliff notes for that.

I think most kids are better off reading Hatchet or Where the Red Fern Grows or something along those lines, but if they want to read abridged versions of classic literature, so be it. I don't really have a problem with it. My only problem is with this stuff being aimed at an adult audience. It just doesn't make sense.

[megladon8]

Reading the synopsis for "The Demolished Man" made it seem a little too much like "Minority Report".

[Sven]

Hm.. my copy is almost 900 pages. Are you opting for all abridged books, or just editions with really tiny font?

My copy might have 900 as well. But it's in Utah at the moment, and I am in Brooklyn, so I couldn't double check. But it is a tiny mass market edition, so I don't know. I'm sure Amazon could tell me, but LA-ZY.

[Sven]

The "idiots" comment was obviously tongue-in-cheek, which is why I followed it up with "seriously though" and made a completely separate point. And I didn't call it a new trend, just a trend. Previous abridged version were mainly made for either children or for Reader's Digest subscribers. This is aimed specifically at adults who don't want to take the time to read the entire book. Like I said, there's cliff notes for that.

I think most kids are better off reading Hatchet or Where the Red Fern Grows or something along those lines, but if they want to read abridged versions of classic literature, so be it. I don't really have a problem with it. My only problem is with this stuff being aimed at an adult audience. It just doesn't make sense.

Yeah, you didn't say "new trend", but you said it was a bad trend to start.

I agree with you. I guess all this is a long-winded way for me to demonstrate that it's not the kind of outrage I can get up in arms about. It's probably just a government plan set in place to distract us, the observant literati, from the truth about 9/11.

[D_Davis]

Reading the synopsis for "The Demolished Man" made it seem a little too much like "Minority Report".

It came out 2 years before, and while they do share some thematic elements, a ton of sci-fi novels dealt with telepathy in the 1950s, they are drastically different in tone and execution. In all actuality, they couldn't be much more different. Dick's short story is a far more pulpy yarn, although in typical Dick fashion he elevates the pulp to an art form, while Bester's novel is an incredibly profound study of humanity with elements of Freudian psychology with a hardboiled detective spin. Both are wonderful examples of the best the genre has to offer, but that's where the comparisons end.

Just read The Demolished Man, quit making excuses. ;)

[lovejuice]

D, i just bought behold the man. 'll read it pretty soon.

one thing i hate about sci-fi is most of them are only available in crappy pocketbook edition. i can't stand those things. i can't hold it well in my hands. the fonts're hurting my eyes. this is a reason why i can't finish the ender series.

[Melville]

My copy might have 900 as well. But it's in Utah at the moment, and I am in Brooklyn, so I couldn't double check. But it is a tiny mass market edition, so I don't know. I'm sure Amazon could tell me, but LA-ZY.
Maybe I got the expanded version.

[D_Davis]

D, i just bought behold the man. 'll read it pretty soon.

one thing i hate about sci-fi is most of them are only available in crappy pocketbook edition. i can't stand those things. i can't hold it well in my hands. the fonts're hurting my eyes. this is a reason why i can't finish the ender series.

Cool. I have Behold the Man, but I have not read it. Truth be told, as much as I love Moorcock, I've only ever read the Elric saga.

Did you see I bought Cosmicomics, on your recommendation I might add. I've been meaning to check out Calvino for some time, and this looks like a perfect place to start.

Sometimes, I like the mass market size, but I usually prefer trade paperbacks. However, like you said, a lot of this old classic sci-fi is just not available any other way. However, at Half Priced books, the old mass markets are great, because they usually cost less than a dollar! Three of the books I bought tonight cost me 40 cents each!

[lovejuice]

Did you see I bought Cosmicomics, on your recommendation I might add. I've been meaning to check out Calvino for some time, and this looks like a perfect place to start.


lemme know what you think about cosmicomics. :)

[D_Davis]

lemme know what you think about cosmicomics. :)

Of course I will.

[SpaceOddity]

eagerly awaiting for your thought.

among my favorite books, this one is least read. in fact murdoch is criminally under-rated. and that mediocre movie doesn't help either.


Have you read The Time of the Angels?

[megladon8]

Anyone read any Carlton Mellick III?

What a weird guy...some of his titles include "The Haunted Vagina", "The Baby Jesus Butt Plug" and "Satan Burger".

[Kurosawa Fan]

Anyone read any Carlton Mellick III?

What a weird guy...some of his titles include "The Haunted Vagina", "The Baby Jesus Butt Plug" and "Satan Burger".

Nope. And now I have no desire to read his stuff.

[megladon8]

Nope. And now I have no desire to read his stuff.

Oh c'mon...don't you want to read about a new Earth made entirely of meat?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Oh c'mon...don't you want to read about a new Earth made entirely of meat?

Please tell me the guy is self-published.

[Marley]

Any Christopher Moore fans on here?

What would you say his best work is?

One of my favorite authors and I've read everything by this guy. He's at his most zany when it comes to satire and it works surprisingly well. He's a witty humurist and his books are the funniest I have ever read.

A good place to start would be Bloodsucking Fiend to get a clear idea of his writing style and it's a breezy read too. If you dig vampires, your bound to enjoy this crazy book. His first two novels before this one while good in their own right seem like starting points for Moore where he was just beginning to improve his craft.

Lamb is my personal favorite by him and he has yet to top that one in my mind although several come close.

[megladon8]

Please tell me the guy is self-published.


No, it's some Punk Avante-Garde label.

He actually has quite a following.

[megladon8]

Finished "A Confederacy of Dunces" and it definitely was one of the funniest books I have ever read - that being said, I think the humor could totally fly over some peoples' heads. I also think there are many people who would probably loathe Ignatius, rather than find any of his actions funny.

It actually took me some time to come to the conclusion that I liked the ending. At first I felt it was a little bit deus ex machina-like. But upon further review I think it fit pretty well. I am glad that there wasn't some ridiculous, life-changing event that caused Ignatius to "learn the error of his ways" and turn a new leaf. But at the same time I felt that Myrna had the potential to be a catalyst in his life, causing great change.

It was all great, and I really enjoyed it.

[Sycophant]

Today, I got a collection of short stories called Salmonella Men on Planet Porno by Japanese author, Yasutaka Tsutsui, the guy who wrote the stories that Paprika and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time were based on. I read the first story--a wild tale about a Dabba Dabba Tree that causes people to have erotic dreams that conflate with reality--and found it fantastic. I'm looking forward to reading the rest. I think I actually prefer short fiction to novels.

Speaking of novels, I'm nearing halfway through The Golden Compass and rather like it.

[megladon8]

Today, I got a collection of short stories called Salmonella Men on Planet Porno by Japanese author, Yasutaka Tsutsui, the guy who wrote the stories that Paprika and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time were based on. I read the first story--a wild tale about a Dabba Dabba Tree that causes people to have erotic dreams that conflate with reality--and found it fantastic. I'm looking forward to reading the rest. I think I actually prefer short fiction to novels.

Speaking of novels, I'm nearing halfway through The Golden Compass and rather like it.

That first book you mention officially wins the "greatest title of anything ever" award.

[D_Davis]

Today, I got a collection of short stories called Salmonella Men on Planet Porno by Japanese author, Yasutaka Tsutsui, the guy who wrote the stories that Paprika and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time were based on. I read the first story--a wild tale about a Dabba Dabba Tree that causes people to have erotic dreams that conflate with reality--and found it fantastic. I'm looking forward to reading the rest. I think I actually prefer short fiction to novels.

Sounds cool. I've got a great collection of Japanese short fiction called Monkey Brain Sushi, it has some really creative stuff in it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished "A Confederacy of Dunces" and it definitely was one of the funniest books I have ever read - that being said, I think the humor could totally fly over some peoples' heads. I also think there are many people who would probably loathe Ignatius, rather than find any of his actions funny.

It actually took me some time to come to the conclusion that I liked the ending. At first I felt it was a little bit deus ex machina-like. But upon further review I think it fit pretty well. I am glad that there wasn't some ridiculous, life-changing event that caused Ignatius to "learn the error of his ways" and turn a new leaf. But at the same time I felt that Myrna had the potential to be a catalyst in his life, causing great change.

It was all great, and I really enjoyed it.

Awesome. Now, trust my great judgment (Le Samourai must be used as a reminder here) and read Catcher in the Rye. You won't regret it.

[D_Davis]

More Than Human (1953) - Theodore Sturgeon

Child abuse, broken psyches, freaks, cripples, social outcasts, and rejects, these are the things with which Theodore Sturgeon populates his twisted book, More Than Human. It's the Island of Misfit Toys for discerning adults. More Than Human is not a light read; it is not something to flippantly turn to at the end of the day in hopes of clearing one's mind of work. This book does not put the mind at ease, but instead it invigorates the imagination and stirs the emotional cortex of the reader; while reading it, I was angry, sad, happy, and fearful. This is no sippin' book, this is a book to be devoured, to poor over, a book to study. It is a book full of intricacies, tightly plotted with bold characterizations. It is subtle when it needs to be, full of bombast when the occasion calls. And above all, it is damn good.

Theodore Sturgeon is some kind of mad genius, and he also possessed the power to draw his readers into his dark and twisted psychosis. I don't mean to say the man was emotionally disturbed, but after reading this, and The Dreaming Jewels, it is clear that he liked to push buttons and stretch the boundaries of genre fiction as far as they could be stretched for the time. I didn't simply read More Than Human: I experienced it, I felt it, and I lived within its milieu. It enraptured me. It drew me into its twisted world like few other books have. I approached each reading session with trepidation, because I knew that I would be challenged with each passing page. This is a dense and stirring experience, and I sometimes felt mentally exhausted after spending time with it. And this is a good thing, because compared to what the characters go through, my feelings of anxiousness and tension meant nothing.

At it's core, More Than Human explores what may be the next step in human evolution. It examines what Sturgeon calls a gestalt human, homo gestalt, or a being comprised of many. The book is broken up into three novella-sized chapters, each focusing on a different point of view character. While each novella could be read on its own, this would limit the impact of experiencing the true breadth of Sturgeon's accomplishment. The first part focuses on Lone, a social outcast, a reject, who has the power to make people do things, He recalls moments when he was cold, and people gave him clothing, moments when he was hungry and people gave him food. However, due to his limited mental capacity, he doesn't quite understand the extent his powers but at the same time he doesn't exploit his powers to take advantage of people. His naivety and simplistic ways kept him humble and good natured.

Soon, Lone discovers his calling and is spiritual drawn to a place of learning and peace. Through Lone's experiences we are introduced to most of the central characters. There's Bonnie and Beannie, two toddler twins who have the power of teleportation. They lack the ability to speak, one can only say “hee-hee,” while the other can only say “hoe-hoe,” and they are also the victims of child abuse. Because of the their unique powers, they often lose their clothes and spend a lot of their time running around naked. Next is Janie, her gift is telekinesis, and she, too, is a victim of abuse. Janie becomes the mother-figure for the group and plays a crucial role in the third part of the book. After Janie comes Baby, Lone's mongoloid step-brother. Baby is grotesquely deformed, worse than a vegetable, although his infant mind is capable of profound reasoning and deduction. And finally there is Gerry and Hip, two beings involved in the central conflict of morality and ethics as the homo gestalt comes to terms with its place in a society in which they are together and simultaneously alone.

While the above description of the characters may lead you to believe that this is some kind of New Mutants, or some X-Men-like narrative full of remarkable, unique individuals who rise above total social rejection to become great heroes, it is, in fact, nothing like this. This is a hard nut to crack, and to explain it only complicates matters. More Than Human is an unrelenting novel; it is dense, and full of far reaching, lofty ambition. It never slows down for the reader to catch up, and it never holds the reader's hand through its twisted and beautifully poetic passages. The book is a labyrinth of emotional detail and subtlety, punctuated with moments of extreme violence, callousness, sadness, and triumph. What we are experiencing within this narrative is the genesis of a new kind of thought, a new kind of being, and all of the pains of growing up are accounted for. Sturgeon traces the formation of the homo gestalt from its conception through its first steps into actuality, into learning to live as a whole. More Than Human took me to places I've never dreamed of, and through Sturgeon's incredible prose I was introduced to characters and a world teeming with life and nuance.

[megladon8]

Awesome. Now, trust my great judgment (Le Samourai must be used as a reminder here) and read Catcher in the Rye. You won't regret it.


I dunno, man...you never got around to reading the entire series of "Babysitter's Club" books, like I asked of you.

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours my friend.

:P

[Kurosawa Fan]

I dunno, man...you never got around to reading the entire series of "Babysitter's Club" books, like I asked of you.

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours my friend.

:P

The sad part is I could accomplish this with ease, as my wife has the entire collection and still rereads them on a fairly regular basis.

[megladon8]

The sad part is I could accomplish this with ease, as my wife has the entire collection and still rereads them on a fairly regular basis.


Hmm...well...

I can't think of anything witty to say back to that. You really should get to reading them. :P

[EvilShoe]

Meg, you haven't read Catcher in The Rye yet? How the hell did that happen?
Read, now. Log out! Read!

Myself, I'm currently going through the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series. Just started on the third book, which has a hilarious opening:
"Arthur Dent, you're a jerk. A complete asshole." :lol:
Really enjoying these books so far.
I read somewhere the final two books aren't up to par though, any truth to this?

[Winston*]

I read The Catcher in the Rye the other day. I'm not sure why I'd never read it before, but, hey, now I have. Anyway, sorry to break it to you Meg but, every woman you love = totally crazy (no offense, Jen).

[EvilShoe]

My sister had to read "Catcher in the Rye" for class just a week or so ago and absolutely loathed it.

My mom got me to buy a copy for her so she could read along with my sister, and my mom said she doesn't think she has ever hated a book as much as that one.

I'm not too interested in reading it.
Just saw this.
WTF?

[Raiders]

Franny and Zooey is better than Catcher in the Rye, anyway. So I say go with that if you have such an aversion to reading the latter.

[Lasse]

I bought Atonement (Ian McEwan) and Desperation (Stephen King) for $1 each. Yay!

I'm almost finished with Stephen King's Bag of Bones and while it's a decent book, I'm having trouble reading it. It just doesn't hold my attention like most previous King books have.

[Benny Profane]

http://arts.independent.co.uk/books/features/article3158029.ece

An Elegy for the Great American Novel:


If any writer believed in the existence of the Great American Novel it was Norman Mailer. He believed in it utterly, called it the "big one" and dreamed of bagging it – like a hunter in search of game. Now, he and many of his fellow hunters are gone. Can anyone take their place?

Lots of good reading in the above link.

[D_Davis]

I started reading James Blish's A Case for Conscience yesterday, and while not as elegant as The Demolished Man, or More Than Human, I am enjoying it quite a bit. It seems to struggle a bit finding the proper voice through which to tell the story, and this is especially apparent after reading Sturgeon's superior novel. However, I do like where the narrative is heading, and I find a lot of sympathy in the main character, the Jesuit Priest, who shares many of my own beliefs regarding science and religion. He states that the two compliment each other, and that every thing he learns about evolution, biology, chemistry, and so on only further proves to him the amazing powers of God. Science reinforces his faith. I am greatly anticipating his further discoveries.

[SpaceOddity]

Fave characters, anyone?

[D_Davis]

Fave characters, anyone?

The Gunslinger and Elric

[megladon8]

Fave characters, anyone?


Batman.

Superman.

Duddy Kravitz.


So my next reading adventure is Paul Auster's "City of Glass" - the first volume in his "New York Trilogy".

I read the first 50 pages and it's incredible.

[megladon8]

I bought Atonement (Ian McEwan) and Desperation (Stephen King) for $1 each. Yay!


Wow, those are some pretty sweet deals.

[Watashi]

How come no one told me that the name of Lyra's daemon in The Golden Compass is Pan?

This book just got a whole lot more awesomer.

[D_Davis]

Fave characters, anyone?

Also:

Philip Marlowe
Hap and Leonard
Wolf

[Llopin]

Ok, so no Brodsky fans.

Has anyone read something by Clifford Geertz?

[megladon8]

Sorry, Llopin, I've never heard of either of those writers :(


Seriously, has anyone else here read any Paul Auster - namely, any of the books in the "New York trilogy"?

"City of Glass" is blowing my mind.

[Kurosawa Fan]

It's been on my shelf for a couple years now. I'll have to give it a go soon. I like reading something around the same time as someone else. Makes for good conversation.

[SpaceOddity]

Seriously, has anyone else here read any Paul Auster - namely, any of the books in the "New York trilogy"?


Me. *raises hand*

I liked it.

[megladon8]

It's been on my shelf for a couple years now. I'll have to give it a go soon. I like reading something around the same time as someone else. Makes for good conversation.


Definitely :D It's a short novel - "City of Glass", I mean, which is like 160 pages.

It's creepy, intriguing, funny, and really well written.

I'm about halfway through, and it's leaving me feeling "Mr. Auster, where have you been all my life?"

Also, I have to say that if a movie was ever made of Paul Auster, Rufus Sewell should play him...

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41029000/gif/_41029952_paul_auster_203.gif

http://www.broadway.com/site_images/555742.jpg

[SpaceOddity]

Definitely :D It's a short novel - "City of Glass", I mean, which is like 160 pages.

It's creepy, intriguing, funny, and really well written.

I'm about halfway through, and it's leaving me feeling "Mr. Auster, where have you been all my life?"

Also, I have to say that if a movie was ever made of Paul Auster, Rufus Sewell should play him...

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41029000/gif/_41029952_paul_auster_203.gif

http://www.broadway.com/site_images/555742.jpg


Wow. They're so alike.
*had no notion of Auster's hotness*

[jesse]

Franny and Zooey is better than Catcher in the Rye, anyway. So I say go with that if you have such an aversion to reading the latter. YES.

[jesse]

I've really been on a Greek kick lately... and being continually surprised at the beauty and unabashed frankness of their writing.

Read Medea by Euripides the other day--I'm sure it's a much more powerful experience to see it performed, but it really was a pleasure to read. Also went back to Ovid's Metamorphosis for a bit, which is always a kick.

Still slogging through Purgatorio, I doubt I'll make it to Paradise. :P

[Derek]

Franny and Zooey is better than Catcher in the Rye, anyway. So I say go with that if you have such an aversion to reading the latter.

Indeed, though I'd recommend reading Seymour and Raise High the Roofbeam Carpenters. Combined, they're barely over 200 pages and a quick read, plus they provide some great background info on the Glass family.

[Melville]

Seriously, has anyone else here read any Paul Auster - namely, any of the books in the "New York trilogy"?

"City of Glass" is blowing my mind.
I've read it and moderately liked it. I thought the comic book adaptation was significantly better.

[lovejuice]

Seriously, has anyone else here read any Paul Auster - namely, any of the books in the "New York trilogy"?

"City of Glass" is blowing my mind.

i like the book of illusion, but can't stand new york trilogy, or at least the first two stories. (i give up after ghost.)


I've read it and moderately liked it. I thought the comic book adaptation was significantly better.

you have a link? i too feel that the story is fit more to be in a comic book format.

[megladon8]

lovejuice, why could you not stand the "New York Trilogy"?

[Melville]

you have a link? i too feel that the story is fit more to be in a comic book format.
Here. (http://www.amazon.com/City-Glass-Graphic-Paul-Auster/dp/0312423608/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195263608&sr=8-1) It used to be available only in a really expensive format, but the current edition is a great bargain. Mazzucchelli's artwork is amazing.

[lovejuice]

lovejuice, why could you not stand the "New York Trilogy"?

perhaps i had a fault expectation. a person who recommended it said it's famous for being a "detective story." (he's actually never read it.) as you know, city of glass turns out to be anything but that. ultimately there's no case to be solve, and no clue to be found or made sense of. just a string of randomity.

i'm sure you can find some deep metaphysical meaning behind all those, but i've never been a big fan of surrealistic writing.

a year later, i attempt ghost and can't finish it either. there's something about auster's language that's just inappealing to me.

strangly enough, his writing is the same for the book of illusion, which i really dig. in that novel he gives us an actual flesh and blood character to care and relate to. you can say, it's more narrative and conventional than his later pieces.

[Melville]

i'm sure you can find some deep metaphysical meaning behind all those, but i've never been a big fan of surrealistic writing.
If you don't like the dominance of metaphysics in the book, you'll probably dislike the comic even more, which really runs with the ideas about language and the Fall.

[lovejuice]

If you don't like the dominance of metaphysics in the book, you'll probably dislike the comic even more, which really runs with the ideas about language and the Fall.

but i like surrealist image. there can be visually a lot of cool things being done with the material.

[megladon8]

The opening line of the book "Foop!" by Chris Genoa made me laugh...

"I've always thought that the existence of Abraham Lincoln provided conclusive visual evidence that humans are indeed descended from apes."

[SpaceOddity]

Starting Cocteau's Les Enfants Terribles.
Cos a friend likened me to the girl.

*vain*

[ledfloyd]

Fave characters, anyone?
Roland Deschain
Joe Kavalier
Phillip Marlowe
Nick Shay
Dylan Ebdus
Parker
Kilgore Trout
Charles Kinbote
Humbert Humbert
Dr. Gonzo
Nathan Zuckerman

[D_Davis]

Kilgore Trout


Vonnegut based this character off of my favorite author at the moment, Theodore Sturgeon.

[Lucky]

Into the Wild was interesting enough. I'm glad the author tried to inject the psychology of McCandlass and even explored some philosophies behind that general era of life, but I really found his personal climbing account a major two chapter misstep. The most surprising aspect of the novel, and I do not believe at all that this was intentional by the author, was how my opinion toward his subject shifted the more I read. Throughout the first half of personalized letters and overview of his life, McCandlass appears to be a revolutionary, but it does not take long for his tragic flaw of narcissism to reveal itself and his foolishness. Still, it is tragic that such potential engulfed itself.

[megladon8]

Finished "City of Glass" and I loved it a lot.

So many layers to the story, and so many different ways it could all be interpreted.

[dreamdead]

I'll second The Book of Illusions as a good second place to go with Auster, meg. The third novel in the New York Trilogy is also good, as is Levithian. Auster is very much in the tradition of the nineteenth century Americanists, but he's normally solid. Glad you liked City of Glass so much...

[megladon8]

I'll second The Book of Illusions as a good second place to go with Auster, meg. The third novel in the New York Trilogy is also good, as is Levithian. Auster is very much in the tradition of the nineteenth century Americanists, but he's normally solid. Glad you liked City of Glass so much...


I will be sure to check those out sometime.

Should I read all three books in the "New York" trilogy in a row? Is that required?

I was kind of thinking of reading Christopher Moore's "Lamb" next, but if I should finish the trilogy in sequence, that's what I'll do.

[dreamdead]

I think spacing the Auster texts out over time is a prerequisite for appreciating his work because he does have a repetitive pallette of themes, and if you continue on with his work too quickly they'll start feeling uniform in nature. The third in the trilogy works the best because there's much more humanity and emotion in Auster's writing at that point in his writing career; you probably will appreciate them before if you return to them over time, rather than barrelling through all three quickly.

[number8]

My future in-law gave me his copy of Blood Meridian as a gift. Should be a cool read.

[megladon8]

I tried reading "On the Road" by Jack Kerouac today, but after 10 pages I just couldn't take anymore. I'll definitely read it at some point in my life, but now just definitely isn't the time.

So instead I am reading William Hjortsberg's "Falling Angel" - a crime noir/horror story, which inspired the film "Angel Heart". It's also where I got my previously phallic avatar from.

[lovejuice]

Auster is very much in the tradition of the nineteenth century Americanists, but he's normally solid.

can you elaborate more on this? for me, auster is anything but "nineteenth century." he's, i'll say, very post-modernist -- i use this term extremely loosely here.

[jesse]

Read the story of Gilgamesh, considered the oldest piece of literature in existence, while at work yesterday (the hotel is dead these days, and I intend to take advantage of it). I read it for a history class my sophomore year of college, but rereading it confirmed I retained not a bit of it (I'm starting to doubt I even read it in the first place). Readable in an ancient epic kind of way (as in more for the history than the art), though it lacks the humor of the Greek epics that followed it which in a lot of ways makes it more akin to reading the Bible.

And that's where it's most interesting--there are several key plot points where the similarities between it (a pre-Hebraic Mesopotamian text) and Biblical accounts of similar stories are shockingly alike, most particularly in a divinely-ordained flood that covered the earth and nearly extinguished humanity. Tellingly, however, the gods in Gilgamesh realize they have made a mistake and mourn their destructive decision, while the Hebrew god remains insistent that the right decision had been made. Take from that what you will.

[Lucky]

And that's where it's most interesting--there are several key plot points where the similarities between it (a pre-Hebraic Mesopotamian text) and Biblical accounts of similar stories are shockingly alike, most particularly in a divinely-ordained flood that covered the earth and nearly extinguished humanity. Tellingly, however, the gods in Gilgamesh realize they have made a mistake and mourn their destructive decision, while the Hebrew god remains insistent that the right decision had been made. Take from that what you will.

I'm not that religious, but if I'm going to believe in a god I want to believe in one with infallibility and surpeme knowledge. The fact that the gods in Gilgamesh admit to making a mistake of that magnitude makes them appear just as foolishly human as the rest of us.

[jesse]

I'm not that religious, but if I'm going to believe in a god I want to believe in one with infallibility and surpeme knowledge. The fact that the gods in Gilgamesh admit to making a mistake of that magnitude makes them appear just as foolishly human as the rest of us. Well, the introduction in the Norton Anthology that I've been reading all these texts in made a really good point--with the complete decimation of the Greek/Roman religious system by Christianity we've completely lost the ability to comprehend a religious system where the deities can be fallible, can be scrorned and ridiculed but are also considered completely worthy of worship. It was an intriguing point, an obvious one, of course, but one I'd never really considered the full implications of.

In a lot of ways it has slightly changed my viewpoint on things as I've been indulging in a lot of ancient lit.

[Melville]

Read the story of Gilgamesh, considered the oldest piece of literature in existence, while at work yesterday (the hotel is dead these days, and I intend to take advantage of it). I read it for a history class my sophomore year of college, but rereading it confirmed I retained not a bit of it (I'm starting to doubt I even read it in the first place). Readable in an ancient epic kind of way (as in more for the history than the art), though it lacks the humor of the Greek epics that followed it which in a lot of ways makes it more akin to reading the Bible.
For me, the most interesting aspect of Gilgamesh was how it presented sexuality as a civilizing force, used to bring the wild man into the cultural fold. Sexuality is usually presented in art as a primal, instinctual force, so the the different take on it really made me think about how cultures have changed over time.

[megladon8]

Wow, this book "Falling Angel" is fantastic.

I strongly recommend it. Very strongly.

[lovejuice]

coetzee's foe is better than his more well-known and, i think, grossly overrated disgrace. I strongly recommend it to someone who want to explore this author. Be prepare though for an out-of-this-world meta-literature in the third act.

[jesse]

For me, the most interesting aspect of Gilgamesh was how it presented sexuality as a civilizing force, used to bring the wild man into the cultural fold. Sexuality is usually presented in art as a primal, instinctual force, so the the different take on it really made me think about how cultures have changed over time. Oh definitely--certainly one of the most fascinating elements of the story. And unfortuantely, demonstrates how from the very beginning females have been almost solely defined by sex, meant to be exploited by males...

On the other hand, another thing I found interesting is the utilization of female metaphors and images in the description of Gilgamesh (likened to a lioness, etc).

[Llopin]

coetzee's foe is better than his more well-known and, i think, grossly overrated disgrace. I strongly recommend it to someone who want to explore this author. Be prepare though for an out-of-this-world meta-literature in the third act.

I will seek it. I recently read The Age of Iron and Waiting for the Barbarians, which I enjoyed quite a bit, specially the second, a kafkian isolated claustrophobia of Buzzati's tartarian desert echos. Very well written - according to a friend of mine, who is a devoted Coetzee fanboy, his 80s novels are superior to his more recent efforts.

[megladon8]

Finished "Falling Angel" in the waiting room of a doctor's office today.

It was a great read, but the ending could be seen a mile away...literally from the first couple of chapters.

It also doesn't help that the blurb on the back of the book completely gives away the end twist.

I feel like reading a really, really good horror book next. Any recommendations?

[Kurosawa Fan]

The Heart is a Lonely Hunter is one of the best books I've ever read. It was just devastating. McCullers captures the loneliness of the soul in such an earnest way.

I don't think I've ever been impacted by a characters death quite as much as I was Mister Singer.

I'm just in awe right now. I'm going to let this one settle for a couple days before I start reading something new.

[bac0n]

Just finished HP Lovecraft's At The Mountains Of Madness. It was awfully clinical and turgid in parts, but the final 30 pages or so were thrilling, so I'm glad I stuck it out.

[megladon8]

Just finished HP Lovecraft's At The Mountains Of Madness. It was awfully clinical and turgid in parts, but the final 30 pages or so were thrilling, so I'm glad I stuck it out.


Yeh, he's pretty damn wordy.

[jesse]

The Heart is a Lonely Hunter is one of the best books I've ever read. It was just devastating. McCullers captures the loneliness of the soul in such an earnest way. I've picked this up several times but have never been able to get myself to actually buy a book with the "Oprah's Book Club!" seal emblazoned on the front. I'll pick it up next time I'm at a used book store.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I've picked this up several times but have never been able to get myself to actually buy a book with the "Oprah's Book Club!" seal emblazoned on the front. I'll pick it up next time I'm at a used book store.

Much as I don't care for her, if a book says Oprah's Book Club on it, at this point I'd buy it regardless of author or subject. I've read several of the novels in her "club" and all but one (The Corrections by Jonathon Franzen) were phenomenal, and that one was still fairly solid.

If your complaint is simply about the seal on the cover and not that Oprah is recommending it, then I agree with you. I usually go out of my way to find an edition without that seal of approval.

[SpaceOddity]

The Heart is a Lonely Hunter is one of the best books I've ever read. It was just devastating. McCullers captures the loneliness of the soul in such an earnest way.

I don't think I've ever been impacted by a characters death quite as much as I was Mister Singer.

I'm just in awe right now. I'm going to let this one settle for a couple days before I start reading something new.

*votes The Ballad of the Sad Cafe*

[Kurosawa Fan]

*votes The Ballad of the Sad Cafe*

I'll grab this one next time I'm at the store. Thanks. :)

[jesse]

Finished a reread of Oedipus Rex last night in response to watching the Pasolini adaptation (and since I've been indulging in that Norton anthology anyway) and it's still such a powerful tale and endlessly compelling despite the fact the story is so well know that it's essentially a cliche.

What really grabbed my attention this time around was how perfectly symmetrical the entire work is, with many of the major lines/themes/metaphors/images being replicated twice, though the context is almost always changed so completely that the meaning the second time around is essentially inverted. The best/most obvious example is the "I am Oedipus" uttered at the very beginning and at the very end of the play, though there are countless examples to be find and enjoy throughout the entire play. Its reputation as one of the the supreme acheivements of literature is certainly justified.

[jesse]

Much as I don't care for her, if a book says Oprah's Book Club on it, at this point I'd buy it regardless of author or subject. I've read several of the novels in her "club" and all but one (The Corrections by Jonathon Franzen) were phenomenal, and that one was still fairly solid.

If your complaint is simply about the seal on the cover and not that Oprah is recommending it, then I agree with you. I usually go out of my way to find an edition without that seal of approval. The latter. I just can't shake the feeling that whoever is at the cash register is going to think that I'm reading the book because Oprah recommended it and not because I have a desire to read it myself.

And I'd hope Oprah's bookclub is good--it's new incarnation is essentially a title-by-title rundown of the circa 1960 literary canon.

[Benny Profane]

The latter. I just can't shake the feeling that whoever is at the cash register is going to think that I'm reading the book because Oprah recommended it and not because I have a desire to read it myself.



Then just order it online. The book is marvelous, and so are East of Eden and One Hundred Years of Solitude (which I bought before it was in the club).

[jesse]

Then just order it online. The book is marvelous, and so are East of Eden and One Hundred Years of Solitude (which I bought before it was in the club). Oh, indeed, I know there is ways around this. I'm weird in that I like to physically touch a book before I purchase it (which is why I rarely tend to go the online route anymore), so that's why I said I'd pick it up next time I'm at a used book store.

My boyfriend was reading Reflections in a Golden Eye by McCullers for a while, though I don't know if he finished it.

[ledfloyd]

i've been rereading some earlier michael chabon stuff. the mysteries of pittsburgh and wonder boys are both great pittsburgh novels IMO. i love both books as much as i love the city.

[dreamdead]

I know, but I just wanted to mention that I dig Cavendish. That woman was crazy, and in a good way.

I could totally see a biopic along the lines of Elizabeth being made about her.

Yeah, we're reading her for a graduate class on Problem Plays of the 17th century. Her plays initially felt devoid of any real drama, as she seemed more interested in tangents about gender relations--which certainly have their own context and should be discussed--still, her integration of these issues in this play feels very artificial and circumvents the dramatic force. Our professor, though, built a compelling case on how of these subversions of genre convention are of course intentional, how Cavendish is fully aware of what she's doing with her structure, and so my take on her plays went from disinterested to quite compelling.

We're supposed to read another of hers, but I've an 18-pager due on John Ford's Tis Pity She's a Whore Thursday, so I'm not sure if I'll have time to get to it and give a read.

[jesse]

Yeah, we're reading her for a graduate class on Problem Plays of the 17th century. Her plays initially felt devoid of any real drama, as she seemed more interested in tangents about gender relations--which certainly have their own context and should be discussed--still, her integration of these issues in this play feels very artificial and circumvents the dramatic force. Our professor, though, built a compelling case on how of these subversions of genre convention are of course intentional, how Cavendish is fully aware of what she's doing with her structure, and so my take on her plays went from disinterested to quite compelling.

We're supposed to read another of hers, but I've an 18-pager due on John Ford's Tis Pity She's a Whore Thursday, so I'm not sure if I'll have time to get to it and give a read. Oh definitely, I remember thinking the same thing until I started recognizing how subversive she was being.

Virginia Woolf wrote some fascinating (and short) essays on her.

[D_Davis]

Talking With Stephen King:

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1687229,00.html

This is a good interview, well worth your time.

[Duncan]

So I finished The Sound and the Fury tonight. This may sound like a really stupid question, but is the Appendix actually part of the novel? I haven't read it yet, but a glance tells me it has a lot of character information in it.

Anyway, it's kind of a difficult book. I have a lot of trouble with stream of consciousness writing. I think it encourages my own mind to wander or something. Regardless, the section where Faulkner uses the technique most extremely, Quentin's section, ended up being my favorite. I liked its intellectualism over Benjy's instinctual section, and Jason's coldness. The last section was also very good. Ultimately though, I think it's one of those books that I got more academic value out of than pleasure.

[Benny Profane]

I have a lot of trouble with stream of consciousness writing.

Heh, good luck with Pynchon.

Speaking of which, I finished Gravity's Rainbow and am moving onto Vineland, my fourth Pynchon in a row.

Duncan, let me know if you want some tips on "how to get through" GR or if you want to just go in cold.

[Melville]

So I finished The Sound and the Fury tonight. This may sound like a really stupid question, but is the Appendix actually part of the novel? I haven't read it yet, but a glance tells me it has a lot of character information in it.

Anyway, it's kind of a difficult book. I have a lot of trouble with stream of consciousness writing. I think it encourages my own mind to wander or something. Regardless, the section where Faulkner uses the technique most extremely, Quentin's section, ended up being my favorite. I liked its intellectualism over Benjy's instinctual section, and Jason's coldness. The last section was also very good. Ultimately though, I think it's one of those books that I got more academic value out of than pleasure.
The appendix was written sixteen years after the novel. It gives a history of the family, tying them into the broader picture of the fictional Southern county that Faulkner created. It's worth reading, but it's not really essential.

[Benny Profane]

Interesting factoid from The Sound and the Fury: According to Faulkner, the story began with a vision of a little girl’s muddy drawers as she (Caddy) climbed a tree to look at death while her brothers, lacking her courage, waited below. And it was all woven from that starting point.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Interesting factoid from The Sound and the Fury: According to Faulkner, the story began with a vision of a little girl’s muddy drawers as she (Caddy) climbed a tree to look at death while her brothers, lacking her courage, waited below. And it was all woven from that starting point.

Seems it's not a coincidence that that was one of the most memorable scenes in the novel for me.

[EvilShoe]

I finished the third Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy book: Life, The Universe and Everything. I loved the first book, but am liking each following book less.
The look on the universe isn't as fresh as it first was anymore (obviously) and the later jokes are hit and miss for me. I also wish there was more interaction between the characters, they're not that interesting when they're separated.

Anyway, on to So Long, and Thanks for all the Fish.

[Melville]

Interesting factoid from The Sound and the Fury: According to Faulkner, the story began with a vision of a little girl’s muddy drawers as she (Caddy) climbed a tree to look at death while her brothers, lacking her courage, waited below. And it was all woven from that starting point.
My sister hated the book for that reason, saying that scene exemplified the novel's sexualization/objectification of the only female sibling. I don't see that as a problem, since the book is all about how the three brothers view their sister, rather than being about the sister herself... but maybe I'm just a closet sexist.

Anyway, Duncan, could you provide any more thoughts on the novel? Given how similar our taste in books is (or seems to be), I would have thought you'd like it more.

[lovejuice]

i like the sound and the fury, especially quentin's part. the whole book has that dreamic quality, and i'll say it's perhaps the best use of stream of consciousness writing style. (perhaps even better than mrs. dalloway **luring spaceoddities into a discussion here** :twisted:)

[jesse]

i like the sound and the fury, especially quentin's part. the whole book has that dreamic quality, and i'll say it's perhaps the best use of stream of consciousness writing style. (perhaps even better than mrs. dalloway **luring spaceoddities into a discussion here** :twisted:) I know I wasn't addressed, but I can't help but respond... my only foray into Faulkner territory at this point has been Absalom, Absalom! and I couldn't help but feel that even though there is many similarities in Woolf and Faulkner's style and approach, both authors were using stream-of-consciousness in very different ways, or at least were attempting to accomplish very different things through it. I think Faulkner, at least in A,A!, was using stream-of-consciousness to do more than just give the character's thoughts, but to disclose a lot of the history and background info... in some ways his characters weren't really characters to me, but rather a means of disclosing the very rich, very dense mythology Faulkner he has created around them.

In Woolf, on the other hand, the technique is used much more to explore the present, the immediate. Sure, the past always hangs over Woolf as well--how could it not with this particularly technique?--but consider, for example, the famous Sally Seton kiss in Mrs. Dalloway. Woolf gives us a single, enigmatic line, which haunts the rest of the text by the simple fact that so much is left unsaid... on the other hand, I feel like Faulkner would have written pages and pages on the experience. So I guess what I'm saying is that to Woolf's characters the history/the past is like an elusive ghost that hangs over the present while to Faulkner's characters the past is the present, and they spend the entire story burdened by an overwhelming personal history that they essentially can't escape from.

I don't think either author is necessarily "better" than the other, though I personally prefer Woolf, if only because her characters seem more immediately human to me. But that's just personal preference.

P.S. - Besides Sound and Fury is told from multiple perspectives, right? So that means Mrs. Dalloway, with its single perspective, isn't even a good comparison point in the first place. If anything, S&F probably should be compared with The Waves (or Between the Acts or even To the Lighthouse...).

[megladon8]

I just realized I own a copy of The Body Snatchers.

Should I read it?

[Duncan]

Duncan, let me know if you want some tips on "how to get through" GR or if you want to just go in cold.

I think I'll just go in cold. It's pretty rare that I ever put down a book entirely. If I'm struggling I usually just pick up a book by someone I'm familiar with that I'm confident I'll like. That usually gets me into the reading habit again, and I'll just continue alternating between books. Not ideal, but it seems to work. Besides, I'm excited to read something by Pynchon. He seems like a fascinating guy.

[Benny Profane]

I think I'll just go in cold. It's pretty rare that I ever put down a book entirely. If I'm struggling I usually just pick up a book by someone I'm familiar with that I'm confident I'll like. That usually gets me into the reading habit again, and I'll just continue alternating between books. Not ideal, but it seems to work. Besides, I'm excited to read something by Pynchon. He seems like a fascinating guy.

Fair enough. There are over 400 characters in GR, and they sometimes don't reappear until much later on, so if you put it off for awhile, there's a good chance you'll forget who they are and how they tie in.

One of my recommendations, of many, would be to read it as quickly as possible, but if you get into trouble, check out this link:

http://www.hyperarts.com/pynchon/gravity/index.html

It has an alphabetical index of all the characters, places, and obscure Pynchon references.

The first 100 pages are pretty disconcerting. If you can get past that OK, you should be fine. There will be many other patches of frustration throughout, but the first 100 was the roughest for me, at least, and I had already two of his novels to get used to his style.

Glad you're excited to read him. No matter your opinion at the end, I'm sure you'll agree that you've never read anything quite like him.

Oh, and keep a dictionary handy.

[Benny Profane]

Guess I ignored your request to go in totally cold. Sorry :)

I have a borderline obsession. Hurry up and finish so we can discuss!

[Duncan]

Anyway, Duncan, could you provide any more thoughts on the novel? Given how similar our taste in books is (or seems to be), I would have thought you'd like it more.

Well, I spent the first half of Benjy's section just trying to figure out who everyone was, and worrying that the rest of the book would remain so impenetrable to me. I read passages two or three times trying to milk a little meaning out of them, to no avail, which was frustrating. I found what I was looking for later in the book, as the importance of certain actions and places/objects was revealed by other family members. I guess you have to take those parts in as a sensory experiences.

I settled in after that adjustment period, and I was comfortable with Quentin's section. I loved the part with the little Italian girl. I was scrambling to find a toehold near the end, though, and wasn't even positive what I thought had happened actually happened.

It happened. But that wasn't confirmed for me until a ways into Jason's section. Maybe I just missed something in my reading (very possible), but I think Faulkner just chose to delay the information. If so, then it probably has something to do with what jesse was saying. The characters never seem to catch up with the now. They're always dragged down by the past. So Faulkner can't let us follow Quentin right up to his suicide, we have to experience it through the memory of others. For a novel so entrenched in its first person perspective, there's actually a lot of second handedness. Maybe I felt it was hard to overcome that distance. I don't know. Not particularly insightful thoughts, just trying to explain my difficulties with the book.

[Duncan]

Guess I ignored your request to go in totally cold. Sorry :)

I have a borderline obsession. Hurry up and finish so we can discuss!

Ha, that's alright. I'm entering the stage of semester with final projects and exams, so I decided to start reading Dubliners as I can just pick it up for 15 pages at a time and feel that I've accomplished something. I probably won't get to Gravity's Rainbow until after Christmas. I'll be able to give it my full attention then.

[Benny Profane]

Ha, that's alright. I'm entering the stage of semester with final projects and exams, so I decided to start reading Dubliners as I can just pick it up for 15 pages at a time and feel that I've accomplished something. I probably won't get to Gravity's Rainbow until after Christmas. I'll be able to give it my full attention then.

Dubliners...also very good. Funny you're about to read Joyce, as Ulysses and GR are often thought of as kissing cousins.

[Duncan]

Dubliners...also very good. Funny you're about to read Joyce, as Ulysses and GR are often thought of as kissing cousins.

Yeah, I've heard that. Only Joyce I've read is A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. Loved that one.

[SpaceOddity]

I know I wasn't addressed, but I can't help but respond...

I've not read Faulkner.

And, Jesse, when are you returning to Wuthering Heights?
*nags*

I'll even loan you Heathcliff. :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxX8f6sVOOw

I'll be back to collect him at midnight.

[Melville]

I know I wasn't addressed, but I can't help but respond... my only foray into Faulkner territory at this point has been Absalom, Absalom! and I couldn't help but feel that even though there is many similarities in Woolf and Faulkner's style and approach, both authors were using stream-of-consciousness in very different ways, or at least were attempting to accomplish very different things through it. I think Faulkner, at least in A,A!, was using stream-of-consciousness to do more than just give the character's thoughts, but to disclose a lot of the history and background info... in some ways his characters weren't really characters to me, but rather a means of disclosing the very rich, very dense mythology Faulkner he has created around them.
I wouldn't presume too much based on Absalom, Absalom!, since Faulkner used the stream of consciousness style for many different purposes. In As I Lay Dying, he used it in a way similar to Joyce or Woolf, to reveal the moment-to-moment flow of thoughts of one or more character. In Absalom, Absalom!, all of the narration is actually stories told by one character to another (does such narration really qualify as stream of consciousness?), and, as you say, the characters were really only there to disclose history; although, of course, it says something about the characters that they all speak in the same way, that they are all overcome by the weight of history and cannot help but ramble on for pages about its revelation. The Sound and the Fury lies somewhere between the two extremes: the technique is primarily used to reveal each character, but each character is revealed to live primarily in and through his obsession with his past. In this case the stream of consciousness technique isn't used to reveal history, but to reveal the characters' relation to their own historicality.

[Melville]

For a novel so entrenched in its first person perspective, there's actually a lot of second handedness. Maybe I felt it was hard to overcome that distance. I don't know. Not particularly insightful thoughts, just trying to explain my difficulties with the book.
Yes, it's definitely true that all the characters are detached from their own experience, perpetually defining themselves in terms of what has already happened rather than what is happening, and so we are always placed at a distance from the "now". I like Sartre's description:
"As soon as we begin to look at any episode, it opens up to reveal behind it other episodes, all the other episodes. Nothing happens; the story does not unfold; we discover it under each word, like an obscene and obstructing presence, more or less condensed, depending upon the particular case."
(Here's the whole essay, which is great: http://www.usask.ca/english/faulkner/main/criticism/sartre.html)
Since it's somewhat hard to figure out what's going on in the first two sections, this can be somewhat frustrating on a first reading; I liked the whole thing a lot more the second time through. I also really like the progression between the sections, as each one becomes more about the present, until the almost crystal clarity of the final section, which finally breaks free from the past (or, more accurately, breaks free from the present, into a fictitious objectivity in which the tension between past and present disappears).

[lemon]

I just read Cats Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut and thought it was very bleh. I enjoyed Blue Beard about 5x as much as Cats Cradle. Cats Cradle kind of reminded me of Franz Kafka's The Castle in the way that both were sort of quirky, I guess.

I checked out The Road from the library but had to return it before I could start it. Just bought All The Pretty Horses while at the airport and look forward to getting into it over winter break.

[SpaceOddity]

I'm starting Genet's Our Lady of the Flowers.

[Melville]

I'm starting Genet's Our Lady of the Flowers.
I've wanted to read that for a while. Let me know how it is.

[ledfloyd]

Duncan, let me know if you want some tips on "how to get through" GR or if you want to just go in cold.

i could probably use some tips. i own it, and i've tried reading it three times, i think the deepest i made it was around 150 pgs. it's on my nightstand right now, i plan on giving it another go sometime soon.

[SpaceOddity]

I've wanted to read that for a while. Let me know how it is.

Have you read anything else by him?

[Melville]

Have you read anything else by him?
Nope. I'm mostly interested in him because Sartre wrote a book about him called Saint Genet. But I noticed that you had another of his books in your list of favorites, so it seems that I should find out a bit more about him.

[Benny Profane]

i could probably use some tips. i own it, and i've tried reading it three times, i think the deepest i made it was around 150 pgs. it's on my nightstand right now, i plan on giving it another go sometime soon.

Didn't see this til now, sorry.

This page here has a lot of helpful tips.

http://www.themodernword.com/pynchon/pynchon_grintro.html

Also, the hyperarts index that I referenced above to Duncan really does wonders when trying to remember characters and places. It is very difficult to tell who you should be remembering and who to just glance over. To the untrained eye, Pynchon just kinda throws ideas and characters into a cyclotron and spews them out at random. But it's a very high concept novel that makes sense in a unique way, and ultimately a rewarding one if you can put up with the density and frustration.

http://www.hyperarts.com/pynchon/gravity/index.html

Again, keep a dictionary handy and use it without shame. Wikipedia is also your friend.

Ultimately, if you get stuck, it's OK, just push through. I don't think you're expected to fully understand everything, not even Pynchon scholars, probably. Seek help if you're confused. You have to be willing to put some effort and work into tackling this task.

[SpaceOddity]

Nope. I'm mostly interested in him because Sartre wrote a book about him called Saint Genet. But I noticed that you had another of his books in your list of favorites, so it seems that I should find out a bit more about him.

Yeah, I loved Miracle of the Rose.

"He already had one foot in the winter of heaven. He was going to be whisked up."

"the sadness of his leaving soon lost its original meaning and became a kind of chronic melancholy, like a misty autumn, and that autumn is the basic season of my life"

[Kurosawa Fan]

After The Heart is a Lonely Hunter, I decided to read something purely for entertainment value, so I read Killing Floor by Lee Child. It was decent. Nothing to get excited about. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone other than crime fiction fans.

Last night I caught the last hour of Pride and Prejudice on TV and decided it's been sitting on my shelf unread for far too long. It's my next read.

[lovejuice]

damn, i'm experiencing a reading slump. i have carried around Davies's "The Rebel Angels" without reading a single line for a week. shame on me.

[megladon8]

Has anyone here read the novel "Battle Royale"?

It seems to me that it's incredibly polarizing - every review I've read the author either absolutely ADORED it, or thought it was poorly written garbage.

[D_Davis]

Has anyone here read the novel "Battle Royale"?

It seems to me that it's incredibly polarizing - every review I've read the author either absolutely ADORED it, or thought it was poorly written garbage.

I enjoyed the heck out of it. I wouldn't say it is well written, per se, although this could be something lost in the translation, but it is one of the most entertaining and exciting books I've ever read. It flies by, and is a joy from cover to cover.

[Horbgorbler]

I'm currently experiencing that exhilarating uncertainty that comes when you've finished a couple of books in a short span and it's time to pick (a) new one(s); oh, I am drunk on the infinite possibilities!

I think I'll either attempt a systematic assault on The Tale of Genji or pull a Davis and begin The Demolished Man. Or both, if my frail brain can handle it.

[D_Davis]

I'm currently experiencing that exhilarating uncertainty that comes when you've finished a couple of books in a short span and it's time to pick (a) new one(s); oh, I am drunk on the infinite possibilities!

I think I'll either attempt a systematic assault on The Tale of Genji or pull a Davis and begin The Demolished Man. Or both, if my frail brain can handle it.

You should read A Canticle for Leibowitz with us. It seems like a book you would really enjoy.

But I can't argue with The Demolished Man!

[SpaceOddity]

I think I'll either attempt a systematic assault on The Tale of Genji


Oh, let me know how it is? I've been repelled by its weight.

*wuss*

[lovejuice]

I'm currently experiencing that exhilarating uncertainty that comes when you've finished a couple of books in a short span and it's time to pick (a) new one(s); oh, I am drunk on the infinite possibilities!

does that mean you finish the sea, the sea?

[Horbgorbler]

does that mean you finish the sea, the sea?

Oh, yes. I quite enjoyed it; some of Arrowby's actions towards Hartley caused a "man, if I could reach through this book I'd slap some sense into you" reaction, though. I loved both the supernatural elements that bubbled under the surface and the culinary tips sprinkled throughout.

D_, looking through the library catalog it seems I can get my hands on a copy of A Canticle for Liebowitz soon, so count me in. Looks great!

[D_Davis]

D_, looking through the library catalog it seems I can get my hands on a copy of A Canticle for Liebowitz soon, so count me in. Looks great!

I can't imagine you not liking it.

I finished the first of three parts this morning, and if it keeps up the level of storytelling, I can see this becoming one of my favorites. It is totally entertaining, and I can't help but be reminded of my time spent with The Hitchhikers Guide.

[Thirdy]

I gave up on The Adventures of Augie March last night and started Go Tell it on the Mountain. Bought Other Voices, Other Rooms today.

[Duncan]

I had to read ~200 pages of The Tale of Genji for a class. I will never, ever read the other 800 pages. The Tale of the Heike, on the other hand, I will finish reading at some point. What I read of that one may even have rivaled The Iliad.

[Mysterious Dude]

I finally finished another book. I think it's been two months since I finished the last one. I didn't fall in love with The Trial. And I know it seems rather trivial, but I was really annoyed that the guy didn't indent paragraphs for dialogue.

[lovejuice]

I gave up on The Adventures of Augie March last night and started Go Tell it on the Mountain. Bought Other Voices, Other Rooms today.

umm...how far do you get into it? it's quite rewarding at the end, so i really encourage you to try to finish it. different chapters are not that related to one another, so feel free to skip pages or chapters that you find less interesting.

[Melville]

I had to read ~200 pages of The Tale of Genji for a class. I will never, ever read the other 800 pages.
What was wrong with it? Like SpaceOddity, I've been afraid of starting it because of its length.

[Raiders]

I finally finished another book. I think it's been two months since I finished the last one. I didn't fall in love with The Trial. And I know it seems rather trivial, but I was really annoyed that the guy didn't indent paragraphs for dialogue.

Don't read Cormac McCarthy. He doesn't give quotes or start new paragraphs.

[Duncan]

What was wrong with it? Like SpaceOddity, I've been afraid of starting it because of its length.

I thought it was just a boring royal court drama. So and so sleeps with such and such concubine, what a scandal! Genji is so talented and handsome, but a commoner. How sad! Actually, I barely remember it. I'm probably underselling it, and perhaps if I read the whole thing it would seem more worthwhile. I got the impression, however, that if it wasn't the first of its kind it would have been forgotten centuries ago.

[Mysterious Dude]

Don't read Cormac McCarthy. He doesn't give quotes or start new paragraphs.Shut up. Don't tell me what to do.

Actually, I flipped through No Country for Old Men, and he did start new paragraphs for each speaker, but without quotes. I don't understand it. What's the point of doing that?

[EvilShoe]

I found the Trial to be alternately brilliant and dull.
It's a book I often think about though, so I'm still glad I read it.

[lovejuice]

I found the Trial to be alternately brilliant and dull.
It's a book I often think about though, so I'm still glad I read it.

i like it, but come on, guys, it's not even finished!!

ok, to certain degree that it's, i find it brilliant.

anyone read the castle?

[lovejuice]

Shut up. Don't tell me what to do.

Actually, I flipped through No Country for Old Men, and he did start new paragraphs for each speaker, but without quotes. I don't understand it. What's the point of doing that?

there's this hack writer in thailand who just doesn't do paragraph. i think, simply because he wants his novel to appear more difficult. i hate his gut.

to be fair, kafka, saramago, and nietszche don't do paragraph much either. heck, we scientists are notorious for prefering our paragraph huge. but there is a limit to everything.

[Sycophant]

i like it, but come on, guys, it's not even finished!!

ok, to certain degree that it's, i find it brilliant.I recognize the book is incomplete, however, what's there is so good that that fact hasn't kept it from becoming just about my favorite book ever. I can only imagine how much better life might be if Kafka had actually finished it.

[EvilShoe]

i like it, but come on, guys, it's not even finished!!

ok, to certain degree that it's, i find it brilliant.

anyone read the castle?
O yeah, I don't blame Kafka. It's hard work to judge.

What other Kafka work is worth reading?

[lovejuice]

I recognize the book is incomplete, however, what's there is so good that that fact hasn't kept it from becoming just about my favorite book ever. I can only imagine how much better life might be if Kafka had actually finished it.

wholeheartedly i concur. although i always think that story with the guard is best left unfinished. somehow it absurdizes an already absurd interpreting of an absurd story. there is one chapter in Xingjian Gao's soul mountain which attempt something similar.

[lovejuice]

O yeah, I don't blame Kafka. It's hard work to judge.

What other Kafka work is worth reading?

i dig his shorts.

[Sycophant]

i dig his shorts.
Yeah, pick up a collection of his shorts stories. The Metamorphosis and The Trial are the only two long-form works I've read of his, but most of his short work is amazing as well. "The Hunger Artist" is wonderful.

[Sven]

Reading update:

I am currently working my way through Moby Dick and it is awesome! Potentially best-book-I've-ever-read material.

Today, I scored three rather massive books that I've been meaning to read for a while. I've created a reading chart, so as to ensure that I get through them in no less than four months (with other reading projects inserted in there, of course). So it's: Moby Dick in December, The Brothers Karamazov for January, Barnaby Rudge for February, and Gravity's Rainbow for March. I am very excited.

[Duncan]

Reading update:

I am currently working my way through Moby Dick and it is awesome! Potentially best-book-I've-ever-read material.

Today, I scored three rather massive books that I've been meaning to read for a while. I've created a reading chart, so as to ensure that I get through them in no less than four months (with other reading projects inserted in there, of course). So it's: Moby Dick in December, The Brothers Karamazov for January, Barnaby Rudge for February, and Gravity's Rainbow for March. I am very excited.
You're about to read two of the greatest books ever written. How far are you into Moby Dick?

[Melville]

Reading update:

I am currently working my way through Moby Dick and it is awesome! Potentially best-book-I've-ever-read material.

Today, I scored three rather massive books that I've been meaning to read for a while. I've created a reading chart, so as to ensure that I get through them in no less than four months (with other reading projects inserted in there, of course). So it's: Moby Dick in December, The Brothers Karamazov for January, Barnaby Rudge for February, and Gravity's Rainbow for March. I am very excited.
Wow. My two favorite books in two months. That's awesome.

[Sven]

You're about to read two of the greatest books ever written. How far are you into Moby Dick?

About page 100. It's quite extraordinary, really. One thing that has stricken me rather forcefully is how funny it is. I was afraid of being mired in jargon and dated prose, but no... it's sprightly and quite humorous, and its awe for all things at sea is palpable. I'm relishing it thoroughly.

As for your "greatest ever" comment, do you mean this one and Brothers K? Or do you really like Pynchon or Dickens?

[Melville]

About page 100. It's quite extraordinary, really. One thing that has stricken me rather forcefully is how funny it is. I was afraid of being mired in jargon and dated prose, but no... it's sprightly and quite humorous, and its awe for all things at sea is palpable. I'm relishing it thoroughly.
Yes, it is damn funny. And it gets a whole lot better after the first hundred pages.

[Duncan]

About page 100. It's quite extraordinary, really. One thing that has stricken me rather forcefully is how funny it is. I was afraid of being mired in jargon and dated prose, but no... it's sprightly and quite humorous, and its awe for all things at sea is palpable. I'm relishing it thoroughly.
Just as a warning, I think the first ~150 pages were written to be intentionally readable. ie. There is something like a plot, and it is quite funny. Once they get on the ship, that plot largely disappears and the whaling descriptions begin. It's not as easy a read, but ultimately it's more rewarding. I was struggling with it a bit, but by the end I was overwhelmed.


As for your "greatest ever" comment, do you mean this one and Brothers K? Or do you really like Pynchon or Dickens?

Moby Dick and The Brothers K. I'm going to read Gravity's Rainbow over Christmas break.

[Melville]

Just as a warning, I think the first ~150 pages were written to be intentionally readable. ie. There is something like a plot, and it is quite funny. Once they get on the ship, that plot largely disappears and the whaling descriptions begin.

That's true (though Melville did precede the hijinks with twenty pages of quotations to scare off the unsympathetic reader). I guess many people would think the book turns sour just when I think it really starts to get going. But I actually found the later ruminations (e.g. Ishmael hypothesizing that St. George slew a beached whale rather than a dragon, and that he rode a large seal while doing so) a lot funnier than the earlier, more obviously comedic bits. Hopefully Iosos shares at least some of my sense of humor.

[megladon8]

Man, Peter Straub's "Ghost Story" is taking a long-ass time for me to finish.

I've got like 100 pages left. It seems like it's a lot longer than it needed to be.

[Duncan]

I haven't been doing much reading lately (and probably won't be until after Dec. 20th), but I've read a few stories from Dubliners. "Araby" was crushing. I've literally done the exact same thing. Down almost to the last detail. "Gazing up into the darkness I saw myself as a creature driven and derided by vanity; and my eyes burned with anguish and anger." I've even written a short story about the subject. It was not as good as Joyce's.

[Melville]

I haven't been doing much reading lately (and probably won't be until after Dec. 20th), but I've read a few stories from Dubliners. "Araby" was crushing. I've literally done the exact same thing. Down almost to the last detail. "Gazing up into the darkness I saw myself as a creature driven and derided by vanity; and my eyes burned with anguish and anger." I've even written a short story about the subject. It was not as good as Joyce's.
I love how the stories in Dubliners so consistently dash our (and/or the characters') expectations. That story is probably the best example.

[Duncan]

I love how the stories in Dubliners so consistently dash our (and/or the characters') expectations. That story is probably the best example.

The other great thing about reading it is that it's my Mom's copy from her university days, so I get to read all her margin notes. Some of them are pretty funny coming from the uptight doctor I know her as today. For example, in Joyce's description of the girl my mother has crossed out "neck" and replaced it with "tits."

edit: Never mind. I have just discovered that the book was stolen from the University of Manitoba's library, which almost certainly means it was my uncle who wrote the margin notes. "Tits" is way less funny coming from him. Very disappointing.

edit2: Which in turn means that my mom stole the book from my uncle. A bunch of kleptomaniacs, my family is.

[SpaceOddity]

I can't think of Dubliners without remembering Father Ted.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zCiUzvAoEk4

[lovejuice]

robertson davies is an example of a writer that i like his "daviesness" more than a single work. what makes the rebel angels wonderful is his unique stamps. while his deptford trilogy contain three stand-alone novels that can be read and enjoy separately, it seems to me, cornish trilogy are more linked together. by the time i finish the rebel angels, i can't help but feel a lot is missing. the novel is told from a perspective of two characters, one of which is a "fifth business" who, i don't think, is quite as interesting as dunstan ramsay.

i actually like it a lot. it's a novel that i really enjoy while reading but appreciate it less once finish. perhaps what's bred in the bone and the lyre of orpheus might answer some questions.

[Sven]

Hey, to those of you who like The Brothers K, which translation did you read?

[Duncan]

Hey, to those of you who like The Brothers K, which translation did you read?

I've always read Constance Garnett's translations of Dostoevsky. I can't really compare her to others, but she seems to be the standard for English.

[Melville]

Hey, to those of you who like The Brothers K, which translation did you read?
David McDuff's. Based solely on the first paragraph of Garnett's translation, I think McDuff's has a bit more character. But Garnett's is indeed the standard (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constance_Garnett).

[lovejuice]

i have done some reading comparison on the idiot and find Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky's version to be at most to my liking. they also did Brother K, C&M, Anna K, and W&P.

[lovejuice]

i actually like it a lot. it's a novel that i really enjoy while reading but appreciate it less once finish. perhaps what's bred in the bone and the lyre of orpheus might answer some questions.

ok, i just read the synopsis on wiki, seem like they do not. :P

[Qrazy]

Anyone here read Beckett's Trilogy (Malloy, Malone Dies and The Unnameable)? I have 40 pages left of The Unnameable.

[Milky Joe]

Earlier this semester I read through Molloy and Malone Dies. I've yet to get around to reading The Unnameables yet. The first two were astounding, though, and I plan on finishing it sometime.

[megladon8]

Beckett's stuff seems a little too intellectual for me.

[Milky Joe]

I'm not sure "intellectual" would be a word I'd use to describe Beckett's trilogy. It's almost the opposite, really. It's primitive. It's like learning how to read all over again.

[megladon8]

I'm not sure "intellectual" would be a word I'd use to describe Beckett's trilogy. It's almost the opposite, really. It's primitive. It's like learning how to read all over again.


I'd say that is pretty intellectual.

I read the first few pages on Amazon and I found it almost unreadable.

[Qrazy]

I'm not sure "intellectual" would be a word I'd use to describe Beckett's trilogy. It's almost the opposite, really. It's primitive. It's like learning how to read all over again.

I'd say it's fairly intellectual, just not elitist-mode intellectual. Malloy is absolutely hilarious, my favorite so far. I'm really glad I read Watt and Murphy before starting the trilogy, particularly for the Unnameable, because it adds a wealth of literary-historical subtext that can't be gleaned any other way... in that he's constantly referencing the other characters throughout The Unnameable.

Megladon, Beckett's novels are in turns both brilliant and hilarious... not at all the slog that some classic literature can be at times. I recommend you check out his plays, either Waiting for Godot or Endgame first... for a brief taste. If you enjoy either or both, check out Murphy because it's his most accessible work, and then dive in from there.

[megladon8]

Thanks for the suggestions, Qrazy. I have a friend in class who is an enormous Beckett fan, and he, too, says his plays are a better place to start.

So "Ghost Story" by Peter Straub ended up being pretty ho-hum. There's some gold in there, but in the end it was way too damn long for the story it told.

It wasn't frightening or even particularly creepy - then again, I rarely find myself frightened by books.

Overall it wasn't a bad read, but I have definitely read much better.

And I'm not sure about the timeline of who came first and whatnot, but it almost seems like Straub is mimicking Stephen King's writing style to a 'T'. The same chapter setup and division of parts, the same changes in writing style to evoke emotional change, etc.

[Bosco B Thug]

So "Ghost Story" by Peter Straub ended up being pretty ho-hum. There's some gold in there, but in the end it was way too damn long for the story it told.

It wasn't frightening or even particularly creepy - then again, I rarely find myself frightened by books.

Overall it wasn't a bad read, but I have definitely read much better. Don't remember much about it, but I think I enjoyed it, and you reading it reminds me how much I'd like to get wrapped up in a good horror novel again (i.e. school sucks balls).

All I remember really is "Sex!" (I was, like, twelve), the resolutions were more exciting and clear-cut than I thought they'd be (it wasn't a "And the ghosts' evil continued on and the world is sad..." deal), and I liked the part with the woman stuck in her car or something.

Anyway, the point is, have you seen the movie? It's like the book, well... if Straub wrote it 3-pages long. On napkins. With those really big crayons. Whilst preoccupied with porn.

To clarify, it's the book whittled down to nothing pretty much. It was very disappointing!

[Melville]

Almost four years after starting it, I have finally finished Sartre's Being and Nothingness (I took a 3 and a half year break somewhere in the middle there). I have some major qualms about parts of Sartre's approach (particularly his construct of "being-in-itself" and his misleading language when it comes to human freedom), but overall the book is a masterpiece. The section on concrete relations with others remains the most brilliant analysis of human relationships that I've ever encountered.

Has anybody else read this? Qrazy?

[Qrazy]

Almost four years after starting it, I have finally finished Sartre's Being and Nothingness (I took a 3 and a half year break somewhere in the middle there). I have some major qualms about parts of Sartre's approach (particularly his construct of "being-in-itself" and his misleading language when it comes to human freedom), but overall the book is a masterpiece. The section on concrete relations with others remains the most brilliant analysis of human relationships that I've ever encountered.

Has anybody else read this? Qrazy?

About 100 pages of excerpts from it for a class, but I've recently purchased the full version and hope to fill in the gaps soon, perhaps over winter break. I am quite enamored with the bits I have read though.

Check it his Sketch for a Theory of the Emotions as well if you haven't had a chance yet.

[Melville]

Check it his Sketch for a Theory of the Emotions as well if you haven't had a chance yet.
Thanks. I'll look into it.

[lovejuice]

Almost four years after starting it, I have finally finished Sartre's Being and Nothingness (I took a 3 and a half year break somewhere in the middle there). I have some major qualms about parts of Sartre's approach (particularly his construct of "being-in-itself" and his misleading language when it comes to human freedom), but overall the book is a masterpiece. The section on concrete relations with others remains the most brilliant analysis of human relationships that I've ever encountered.

Has anybody else read this? Qrazy?

is it tough to read?

[Qrazy]

is it tough to read?

As with many discipline specific texts, the greater your knowledge of the history of the discipline, the more you're likely to get out of the work. But based on the reading list you showed me a while back though, I think you have enough of a background to at least get a great deal out of it. And at least one can sleep soundly knowing that the text's language never strives for Kantian levels of obfuscatory grammatical contortion. Although a much easier read from Sartre, and a little taste of what you'll be getting in Being and Nothingness can be found in A Sketch for a Theory of the Emotions (It's about 60 pages), so that's a good place to start. A few excerpts from Husserl (Ideas) and Heidegger (Being and Time) are also useful, but not essential.

[Melville]

is it tough to read?
It's pretty dense, but no more so than most continental philosophy; as Qrazy said, its language is pretty readable compared to that of Kant, Hegel, or even Derrida. Being somewhat familiar with Descartes, Kant, Hegel, and (especially) Heidegger is essential to understand a lot of what Sartre is saying (I think I missed out on a lot because I've never read Husserl), but I think that you'd get more than enough out of it even without having read any of those authors. And Stanford's website has a pretty good encyclopedia of philosophy if you want to familiarize yourself with the main points of any relevant philosophers that you haven't read.

[lovejuice]

And at least one can sleep soundly knowing that the text's language never strives for Kantian levels of obfuscatory grammatical contortion.

ah...that's what i need to know. i attempt reading hegel, heidegger, and kant from time to time just to kill hubris.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished Pride & Prejudice last night. Lovely book. I'm now convinced that Joe Wright and Co. did as good a job as could be done adapting the material into a 2 hour film. It made me pop in the movie after I was done reading and watch it for at least the fifth time already.

I'm going to read some Lovecraft next. I have a collection of his stories, so I'll pick it up and start reading. Not sure I'll read the whole thing. We'll see how it goes.

[SpaceOddity]

Mary and Percy Shelly consummated their relationship on her mother's grave!
Suddenly that book makes total sense.

*eeks*

[SpaceOddity]

Almost four years after starting it, I have finally finished Sartre's Being and Nothingness (I took a 3 and a half year break somewhere in the middle there).

Has anybody else read this? Qrazy?

I was supposed to for a class. But, never opened it.
*fought the power*

[origami_mustache]

Just finished Bret Easton Ellis's Less Than Zero. It's decent, not anything fantastic, but impressive that he wrote it at the age of 19.

[Melville]

Mary and Percy Shelly consummated their relationship on her mother's grave!
Suddenly that book makes total sense.

*eeks*
The more I hear about the Romantics, the better they get. They dance the fine line between self-parody and disturbingly, admirably grotesque.


I was supposed to for a class. But, never opened it.
*fought the power*
I highly recommend the section on concrete relations with others. It's probably understandable even if you skip the rest of the book, and it is completely amazing. The analysis of love is possibly the most perfect description of the experience that I can imagine; and the analysis of sadism is nothing to scoff at either!

[Melville]

Hey iosos, how's Moby Dick coming along? I'm eagerly awaiting a review.

I've recently begun part two of In Search for Lost Time. Great stuff so far. Proust's substantiation of experience (he even refers to the mind as a fluid at one point) continues to amaze, although I'm hoping that it is eventually integrated with the title of the book as an expression of the narrator's search for the essence of events, rather than just being an off-the-wall ontology.

[SpaceOddity]

The more I hear about the Romantics, the better they get. They dance the fine line between self-parody and disturbingly, admirably grotesque.

Sometimes romanticism seems kinda oedipal.
*cites Shelly shagging upon her mother's grave*


I highly recommend the section on concrete relations with others. It's probably understandable even if you skip the rest of the book, and it is completely amazing. The analysis of love is possibly the most perfect description of the experience that I can imagine; and the analysis of sadism is nothing to scoff at either!

I should hunt my copy.

[jesse]

Mary and Percy Shelly consummated their relationship on her mother's grave!
Suddenly that book makes total sense.

*eeks* Where did you hear this?

And that'd be Mary Wollstonecraft's grave, right?

[Qrazy]

Where did you hear this?

And that'd be Mary Wollstonecraft's grave, right?

Stick it to the woman!

[ledfloyd]

i just read I Am Legend. i liked it enough, but felt it didn't quite live up to the hype. i'd rank it alongside an average stephen king story. i really enjoyed the scientific stuff. the rest was pretty decent. i never found it mindblowingly good though.

i just started Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets by David Simon.

[SpaceOddity]

Where did you hear this?

And that'd be Mary Wollstonecraft's grave, right?

You know how I love useless information.

Did you know Thomas Hardy's cat ate his heart?

[Sycophant]

I think I've decided, quite flippantly, that I ultimately prefer the short story format to the novel.

If you ever get a chance to read Yasutaka Tsutsui's work, do. The one collection I just finished, Salmonella Men on Planet Porno (titled after the final story) was one of the most enjoyable things I've read in a while. The work is properly Kafkaesque with a very interesting cultural bent that borders on outright silliness sometimes, while being sometimes quite unsettling. I hope more of his work is translated into English soon, otherwise I might need to start learning Japanese.

[ledfloyd]

I think I've decided, quite flippantly, that I ultimately prefer the short story format to the novel.
i dunno if i'd go that far but i certainly agree that short stories are the shit. i like having a volume of kafka or chekov or carver or cheever on the nightstand. it's nice to be able to polish something off in one quick read.

[lovejuice]

i dunno if i'd go that far but i certainly agree that short stories are the shit. i like having a volume of kafka or chekov or carver or cheever on the nightstand. it's nice to be able to polish something off in one quick read.

just so you know, i LOVE carver. my favorite american writer eva!

i tend to think of a short and a novel as two separated, uncomparable animals. there's no way you can write crime and punishment within 10-12 pages.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I read two Lovecraft stories, and either I'm not in the mood, or he's not my cup of joe. Either way, I'm moving on to something else.

I think it'll be Death Be Not Proud.

[ledfloyd]

just so you know, i LOVE carver. my favorite american writer eva!
amen.

[megladon8]

I read two Lovecraft stories, and either I'm not in the mood, or he's not my cup of joe. Either way, I'm moving on to something else.


Which did you read?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Which did you read?

The first two in my book. The first was Rats in the Walls. The second I can't recall the title. Neither was very impressive.

[EvilShoe]

I don't care much for Lovecraft either. I read a collection with short stories by him. Meh.

I finished the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy (all five books!). Mixed feelings overall, but I'm glad I stuck with it till the end.

Not sure what I'll start on next. Either the 25th Hour or The Brothers Karamazov.

[Qrazy]

i tend to think of a short and a novel as two separated, uncomparable animals. there's no way you can write crime and punishment within 10-12 pages.

15 pages?

[Raiders]

Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal is awesome.