The Book Discussion Thread

[Duncan]

I finished Molloy the other day. Question for those who read it:

So was the first part all a creation of Moran? Or was his own story a creation by Molloy? Both talk about writing for others without really knowing what they're saying or why, so I'm a little confused. The last lines from Moran seems to indicate that a lot of what is said is a total fabrication.

Anyway, narrators like this get a little under my skin. If they really are stone-sucking, disintegrated simpletons who don't even know where their mother lives or what town they're from, how can they express themselves with such florid, precise language? It doesn't line up. Unless it's all a ruse, which is entirely possible. I liked the ideas that Beckett is conveying, but I didn't necessarily think they were executed that well. Too much "I did this, then I did that, then I did this, then I did that". It was all a little exhausting at times. But maybe that's the point, I don't know. But if that's the point, it could have been more interesting. I think I should read it again.

There is definitely some overlap of identity between the two characters: repeated motifs, recursive musings, etc. And I think there's also the implication that they're both supposed to be Beckett himself. Not in a traditional autobiographical sense, but in a more existential or even lingual sense (their attempts at expression, the impossibility of that expression, references to Beckett's earlier works). And plus I think they're supposed to be fairly universal beings that end up in similar states of decomposition.

The book for me is largely about experience and how we try to understand, codify, express that experience mostly through language, in terms of this book in particular, but also through a kind of internal expression of experience that isn't necessarily associated with words, but more with meaningful impressions of the world. And that it's this continuous stream of sensual impressions (the taste of a stone, for example) and then your disclosure of the world based on those impressions, that is in itself an expression of your experience, and, finally, that the expression and experience can't be entirely separated. Umm, does that make any sense? It might not. But anyway, this is why you have whole plays that are just a mouth moving in a black void: http://www.ubu.com/film/beckett_not.html

I don't think the narrators are simpletons. I think they don't know much, but that knowledge isn't so important in this worldview.

A few quotes:

"Yes, there were times when I forgot not only who I was, but that I was, forgot to be."

I think this forgetting to be is like the end of language, or the end of the internal expression I mention earlier. The world is just dead space without it.

"To decompose is to live too, I know, I know, don't torment me, but one sometimes forgets. And of that life too I shall tell you perhaps one day, the day I know that when I thought I knew I was merely existing and that passion without form or stations will have devoured me down to the rotting flesh itself and that when I know that I know nothing, am only crying out as I have always cried out, more or less piercingly, more or less openly. Let me cry out then, it's said to be good for you. Yes let me cry out, this time, then another time perhaps, then perhaps a last time."

"Not to want to say, not to know what you want to say, not to be able to say what you think you want to say, and never to stop saying, or hardly ever, that is the thing to keep in mind, even in the heat of composition."

And in both of those we have not-knowing as a sort of inescapable condition, but there's still the crying out and the crying out, "never to stop saying," even if experience, though already past and unchangeable, will remain somehow inchoate because your expression of it (again, inseparable from the experience itself) is always inadequate. And then you decompose and die.

It's a bleak worldview, I guess, but I also find it weirdly uplifting and even kind of comforting and hopeful.

Other people might have completely different interpretations. I found it a very rich book.

[Benny Profane]

Thanks for the erudite reply, and I did see a lot of what you're talking about in the novel, but the bigness of the ideas never crystallized into something that was engaging enough for my tastes and receptors. I still say that they aren't intelligent enough to narrate these complicated stories and thoughts. If they aren't simpletons, then they are definitely mentally handicapped, Molloy moreso than Moran. With Faulkner's "Benji" in The Sound and the Fury, I felt you had a retarded individual remembering things and telling a story like a retarded person would, but I didn't get that Molloy's level of storytelling matched his capability. Maybe it's an unfair comparison. Also, you didn't mention anything about it being a creation from one of the writers. Moran's half begins with "It was midnight and it was raining" (paraphrasing) and at the end his report for Youdi says the same thing, but he says "it was not midnight, it was not raining". How do you interpret this?

[Kurosawa Fan]

I read The Lover by Marguerite Duras over the weekend. Pretty frustrating, ultimately disappointing read. Duras is capable of writing passages that are just gorgeous to read, but the structure of the book was dissatisfying. She presents the story of this family as an old woman looking back on her life (and I've read that it's based on her past), but the fractured narrative doesn't do the story justice. She bounces from moment to moment, trying to capture the essence of memory, but in doing so, loses her grip on poignancy. Instead, I always felt like an outsider to these memories, understanding the pain and grief, but never feeling like I was a part of it, or having it affect me in a substantial way. The experience ended up being rather empty, the emotional resonance superficial and fleeting. Duras' talent with prose were wasted.

[megladon8]

I'm still really enjoying "Tess" - it feels great to be this into a book again.

I kind of want to change my name to Angel Clare. I love and feel connected to that character.

[Mara]

I kind of want to change my name to Angel Clare. I love and feel connected to that character.

...how far are you?

[megladon8]

...how far are you?


So I take it, then, that he's not the most admirable character later on? :sad:

I just finished part 3, so he and Tess are working at the dairy farm and starting to fall in love.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Wanted something fun so I decided to go with Little Green Men by Buckley as my next read. After that I'll probably move back into Song of Fire and Ice.

[megladon8]

Wanted something fun so I decided to go with Little Green Men by Buckley as my next read. After that I'll probably move back into Song of Fire and Ice.


Damn, if I wasn't in the middle of "Tess" I'd totally read and discuss this along with you. It's one that's been on my shelf for about 4 years.

[Mara]

So I take it, then, that he's not the most admirable character later on? :sad:


My sister read it when she was in high school and I was in college and she'd call me with updates.

ME: How is Tess?

SISTER: Things are looking up!

ME: HAHAHAHAHAAHA.... I mean, that's nice.

[megladon8]

My sister read it when she was in high school and I was in college and she'd call me with updates.

ME: How is Tess?

SISTER: Things are looking up!

ME: HAHAHAHAHAAHA.... I mean, that's nice.


:sad:

Well...I like Angel right now.

*sigh*

[Mara]

Roman Polanski's adaptation, Tess, isn't great, but some of the scenes are quite lovely, and the attraction between Tess and Angel is very well done.

[megladon8]

I wanted Angel to be good :(

[Mara]

I wanted Angel to be good :(

The novel wouldn't work if you didn't like Angel, and you didn't want him to be good. (He's named ANGEL, for pete's sake.) And I wouldn't say he's a bad man, he's just a simple man who ends up being put in complex situations.

[Mara]

I shouldn't have said anything. Please ignore all previous comments-- I was trying to throw you off the scent.

[megladon8]

The novel wouldn't work if you didn't like Angel, and you didn't want him to be good. (He's named ANGEL, for pete's sake.) And I wouldn't say he's a bad man, he's just a simple man who ends up being put in complex situations.


But I thought one of the most attractive parts of his character is that he's not simple.

He's supremely intelligent (at least compared to the farm workers they're working with). And dashingly handsome.

[Mara]

He's educated, sure.

We'll have to talk once things have unfolded a little further.

[megladon8]

He's educated, sure.

We'll have to talk once things have unfolded a little further.


...
...

It's aliens, isn't it?

And Tess is really a ghost and has been this whole time?

[Benny Profane]

Wanted something fun so I decided to go with Little Green Men by Buckley as my next read.


Nice choice. It's pretty hilarious.

[kuehnepips]

What's with Benny and Beckett recently?


The first half of Swann's Way ...

I can not read Proust. I just can't. Not one page.

[baby doll]

I read The Lover by Marguerite Duras over the weekend. Pretty frustrating, ultimately disappointing read. Duras is capable of writing passages that are just gorgeous to read, but the structure of the book was dissatisfying. She presents the story of this family as an old woman looking back on her life (and I've read that it's based on her past), but the fractured narrative doesn't do the story justice. She bounces from moment to moment, trying to capture the essence of memory, but in doing so, loses her grip on poignancy. Instead, I always felt like an outsider to these memories, understanding the pain and grief, but never feeling like I was a part of it, or having it affect me in a substantial way. The experience ended up being rather empty, the emotional resonance superficial and fleeting. Duras' talent with prose were wasted.Yeah, I read it a couple years ago, and found it rather slight.

[baby doll]

I can not read Proust. I just can't. Not one page.Don't be surprised if I never speak to you again. Proust and I are an item.

[Duncan]

Is it just me, or is Midnight's Children a really long 533 page book? I feel like I've been reading this thing forever and I'm not even halfway through it. I'm enjoying it, but the hours seem to keep adding up, on and on and on.

[Duncan]

Thanks for the erudite reply, and I did see a lot of what you're talking about in the novel, but the bigness of the ideas never crystallized into something that was engaging enough for my tastes and receptors. I still say that they aren't intelligent enough to narrate these complicated stories and thoughts. If they aren't simpletons, then they are definitely mentally handicapped, Molloy moreso than Moran. With Faulkner's "Benji" in The Sound and the Fury, I felt you had a retarded individual remembering things and telling a story like a retarded person would, but I didn't get that Molloy's level of storytelling matched his capability. Maybe it's an unfair comparison. Also, you didn't mention anything about it being a creation from one of the writers. Moran's half begins with "It was midnight and it was raining" (paraphrasing) and at the end his report for Youdi says the same thing, but he says "it was not midnight, it was not raining". How do you interpret this?

It's been a couple years since I read it so I couldn't say for sure, but I took them as less than sane rather than stupid. Definitely broken in some way, though.

I think we're supposed to think that, yes, he made it up, or at least his part, but that regardless of whether or not it was raining, the narrative is still a distillation of experience and existence and being, and therefore "true" in a way. I mean, what does it matter if Moran made it all up or if Beckett made it all up? It's still all made up, and it still says the same things. I think it goes back to what I was talking about earlier, or at least the quotes I posted, about how the book is about understanding or codifying experience through language. He's trying to write about what it is to be, and since language will remain always inadequate, ultimate knowledge of the mind always beyond our ken and all that, he's writing more for essence than exact facts.

Although, I may be taking these ideas a little too far. I don't have my copy on me, so I'm just going by memory.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Don't you hate it when you finish Gulliver's Travels on audio CD, don't get what all the fuss is about, and then realize that you've been listening to an abridged version?

Abridgments are for plebeians and philistines!

[Duncan]

Don't you hate it when you finish Gulliver's Travels on audio CD, don't get what all the fuss is about, and then realize that you've been listening to an abridged version?

Abridgments are for plebeians and philistines!

I was under the impression that almost every audio book, except for the short ones, was abridged, no?

[Dead & Messed Up]

I was under the impression that almost every audio book, except for the short ones, was abridged, no?

Nope. Most all of them anymore are unabridged.

[Scar]

I was under the impression that almost every audio book, except for the short ones, was abridged, no?

Atlas Shrugged is about 46 CD's or so. If that's the abridged version, holy shit.

[Scar]

Picked this up at the St Louis airport, and am rather enjoying it.

http://smellslikescreenspirit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/TheStrain-paperback.jpg

[megladon8]

He's educated, sure.

We'll have to talk once things have unfolded a little further.


So, yeah, my foot's now in my mouth for having said I liked Angel.

[lovejuice]

Is it just me, or is Midnight's Children a really long 533 page book? I feel like I've been reading this thing forever and I'm not even halfway through it. I'm enjoying it, but the hours seem to keep adding up, on and on and on.
The book tries my patient as well. Not a big fan of that one. It contains a lot of wonderful images and idea, so much so that I am not quite sure they all add up to anything.

The Satanic Verse is slightly better, but imo suffers from the same condition.

[Sven]

Is it just me, or is Midnight's Children a really long 533 page book? I feel like I've been reading this thing forever and I'm not even halfway through it. I'm enjoying it, but the hours seem to keep adding up, on and on and on.

Actually, I, too, felt this. But only as a positive. Kind of like the film The Talented Mr. Ripley.

A top three book for me.

[Mara]

So, yeah, my foot's now in my mouth for having said I liked Angel.

Where are you at?

Although this comment can be applied if you are on any damn page of the whole damn book: poor, poor Tess. :sad:

[megladon8]

Where are you at?

Although this comment can be applied if you are on any damn page of the whole damn book: poor, poor Tess. :sad:


They just got married. He confessed to Tess about his previous tryst, and she forgave him. Then when she told him about what happened a few years back, he threw it in her face and said she is not the woman he had fallen in love with.

[Mara]

Ouch, ouch, ouch.

[Hugh_Grant]

Seeing the news about the movie adaptation made me remember that I have an unread copy of Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go in my bookcase. A couple of days ago, I received official word that I had been promoted to the full-time faculty at the college where I've been an adjunct for almost a decade, and one of the first thoughts to go swimming through my mind was, "Yay! More time to read!"

[Kurosawa Fan]

Seeing the news about the movie adaptation made me remember that I have an unread copy of Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go in my bookcase. A couple of days ago, I received official word that I had been promoted to the full-time faculty at the college where I've been an adjunct for almost a decade, and one of the first thoughts to go swimming through my mind was, "Yay! More time to read!"

:pritch:

Congrats!!! Read a much better book in celebration!

[Hugh_Grant]

Thanks (and LOL).
All this talk about Rushdie has me wanting to revisit a book I loved in college, Shame.

[Mara]

Awwwwwwwyeeeeeeeaaaaah. I just bookmooched "Spinky Sulks." It is on.

[megladon8]

Gemma Arterton as Tess is terrible casting.

I haven't even seen the film and I feel this is unquestionable.

[megladon8]

So I finished "Tess" tonight.

It was quite brilliant. Beautiful prose, strong characters, and quite a swiftly moving plot. It was an incredible read.

But it was much too painful for my tastes. This is where I would have to break out the infamous "favorite vs. best" argument. It's arguably one of the "best" books I've ever read - admirable in just about every way. Emotionally draining, richly drawn characters and unfortunately repeating myself here, but it's breathtaking in how beautifully it's written. However, it's never going to make a list of my "favorite" books because it just hurt too damned much.

I will be eternally grateful to it, though, for pushing me back into a reading binge.

[Mara]

However, it's never going to make a list of my "favorite" books because it just hurt too damned much.

This is probably where I would stand on it. Beautiful and affecting, but torturous emotionally.

If you like his writing style, you might like E. M. Forster. Similarly beautiful, and often sad, but not nearly as dark.

[Mara]

A Passage to India is his best work. A Room with a View is lighter, though, if you want a palate-cleanser.

[Mara]

I'll admit, though...

I was so completely enthused when Tess killed Alec. I just... he was so horrible! And it's the only moment when she has any control over her own destiny.

[Mara]

Another book with similar themes to Tess of the D'urbervilles that I really love is Adam Bede by George Eliot.

[number8]

Ah, people. (http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Dont-Read/111518022199801)

[Kurosawa Fan]

Ah, people. (http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Dont-Read/111518022199801)

I have a hard time believing she doesn't read:



Leezy OnSum OthaShyt (http://www.facebook.com/LOUDDMOUTH) I READ ERYBODY STATUS BEFOE I MAKE MINES......NEVA WANNA GLAZE SUMTHN AND PEOPLE THINK YOU TALKN BOUT DEM.......CAUSE I DONT GIVE NOOOOO FUCK ABOUT YALL....IM TRYNNA CATCH MYSELF.....SO DNT EVA THINK IM TALKN BOUT YOU CAUSE ALL I DO IS GLAZE

[D_Davis]

Ah, people. (http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Dont-Read/111518022199801)

DERKA DER!

[number8]

Today I learned, if you link to a Facebook page, you will appear on it.

[megladon8]

I have to say I take great issue with this idea that I've come across with many book critics and serious readers alike. It's not something they ever say outright, but they might as well, and that is - a romance is not truly romantic or "worthwhile" unless it is tragic. A story is never romantic unless the couple can't be together.

This drives me insane. A book could be as beautifully written as "Tess", as powerful and strong, but if it ends on a happy note with the couple getting to finally move past their hardships and be together, suddenly the book is "cheapened" and "naive".

I think if a happy ending suits the story being told, the author shouldn't be obliged to make it tragic just to suit these eternally pessimistic readers who feel true love doesn't matter until both parties are miserable.


EDIT: Just to clarify I am not pointing this at "Tess" at all. The ending suited the story thematically. This is just something I've come across when searching for romantic books to read and it seems to be a consensus among "scholars" that nothing is romantic unless it's horribly tragic and depressing.

[lovejuice]

Greene's Monsignor Quixote is one really good book, touching, thought-provoking, and profoundly funny (not as much as the original, perhaps). KF, I believe you will enjoy it since it is thematically connected to The Power and the Glory.

It's time for me to find another author to "conquer", ie. reading all his work. Greene, that shall be.

[D_Davis]

I'm having a really, really hard time getting into A Game of Thrones.

[Mara]

I'm having a really, really hard time getting into A Game of Thrones.

I've been trying to start it every night this week but my schedule has been tricky. I have a good feeling about it, though.

[D_Davis]

I've been trying to start it every night this week but my schedule has been tricky. I have a good feeling about it, though.

I still have a good feeling about it, too. I think the problem is on me right now. I'll probably end up starting over in a week or so.

Do you read much fantasy? If so, I highly, HIGHLY recommend JM McDermott's Last Dragon.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41jn8zmoS6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I know I'm like a broken record with this book, but I just can't recommend it enough. It is a stunning literary achievement.

[Mara]

Looks interesting... I'll see if I can get my grubby little hands on a copy.

[number8]

I still have a good feeling about it, too. I think the problem is on me right now. I'll probably end up starting over in a week or so.

Do you read much fantasy? If so, I highly, HIGHLY recommend JM McDermott's Last Dragon.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41jn8zmoS6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I know I'm like a broken record with this book, but I just can't recommend it enough. It is a stunning literary achievement.

Is it like Eragon?

[Mara]

Is it like Eragon?

I hope not. Eragon was poo.

[D_Davis]

Is it like Eragon?

Yeah, exactly. But this one is even better because it's written by a 10 year old.

[amberlita]

I finished A Game of Thrones yesterday. I was going to start the second one but realized how worn out I am. Some pretty ugly things going on in that world.

[D_Davis]

I hope not. Eragon was poo.

I hope you know that I would never, ever, in a billion years recommend something like Eragon. God I hope you know that.

;)

The best way to describe Last Dragon (which doesn't have anything to do with actual dragons) is to compare it to watching a movie when you're really tired and drifting in and out of sleep. When this happens and the movie begins to mingle with your dreams, it's hard to separate reality form dream, and your mind begins to join the two. And it totally makes sense to the story being told, and to the way the story is being told - through the memories of a woman on her death bed. She drifts in an out of consciousness, mixing fact with legend. It's all poetically written with some of the most beautiful prose I've ever read, creating a surreal experience unlike anything I've ever read except for maybe Michael Cisco's The Divinity Student, another highly recommended fantasy.

As far as I'm concerned, Last Dragon is the new bellwether for modern fantasy. It has set the bar so incredibly high that I don't know if it'll ever be topped, and it has defined what it is I look for in a fantasy novel. Or any novel for that matter.

Just get it. I've convinced about 3 people on Goodreads to read, and they've all loved it. Maybe not as much as I did, but still.

[number8]

Is it like Dragonheart?

[D_Davis]

Is it like Dragonheart?


Exactly like Dragonheart. Mixed with some Flight of Dragons.

[number8]

http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/959759477_6Cf3c-L.jpg

[Kurosawa Fan]

Quit being a dick, 8. It's the novelization of Berry Gordy's The Last Dragon.

[D_Davis]

Quit being a dick, 8. It's the novelization of Berry Gordy's The Last Dragon.

It's exactly like that, too.

And Enter the Dragon.

[number8]

I wish it's a sequel to Double Dragon.


The movie.

[D_Davis]

I wish it's a sequel to Double Dragon.


The movie.

Actually, is a spiritual sequel to Dragonball, the live action American film.

[number8]

Haha, that sounds genius.

They should write a book about it.

[megladon8]

http://img.amazon.ca/images/I/51fIOR1pd9L._SS500_.jpg



?

[Derek]

That's a DVD of Berry Gordy's The Last Dragon. But you should buy it and write a novelization of it. I'll be interested to see how you write the parts where Berry Gordy's The Last Dragon zooms into the kung fu film being shown on the wall of the club and decides "Fuck it, let's just hang here for like five minutes, since this more entertaining than what's going on in [i]Berry Gordy's The Last Dragon." I'm also not sure words can convey the presence left by William H. Macy and the jacket he is unfortunate enough to be wearing:

http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/last-dragon/dragon-19.jpg

[amberlita]

I really need to take a break and read something else after finishing Game of Thrones.

Anybody have any recommendations on a good, compelling non-fiction book, preferrably not much more than 500 pages or so? Kinda what I'm in the mood for.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I really need to take a break and read something else after finishing Game of Thrones.

Anybody have any recommendations on a good, compelling non-fiction book, preferrably not much more than 500 pages or so? Kinda what I'm in the mood for.

Escape from the Deep by Alex Kershaw. Very quick read, very well written.

[amberlita]

Escape from the Deep by Alex Kershaw. Very quick read, very well written.

World War II and submarines? Sweet. Sounds great.

[Lucky]

I really need to take a break and read something else after finishing Game of Thrones.

Anybody have any recommendations on a good, compelling non-fiction book, preferrably not much more than 500 pages or so? Kinda what I'm in the mood for.

The Poisoner's Handbook by Deborah Blum. You're science-minded, you'll enjoy it. Poison, Prohibition, scandal, toxicology, some fascinating stuff in there. Hits a palette of taste buds, too. Just finished it tonight.

About to start Game of Thrones riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Now.

Also read A Grief Observed by C.S. Lewis on Saturday in one sitting. In light of my own recent encounter with tragedy, I found quite a few passages in the memoir particularly striking and relevant. At 75 pages, I recommend it to everyone. Unabashed account of an emotionally naked writer.

[amberlita]

The Poisoner's Handbook by Deborah Blum. You're science-minded, you'll enjoy it. Poison, Prohibition, scandal, toxicology, some fascinating stuff in there. Hits a palette of taste buds, too. Just finished it tonight.

Ah yes. I will check it out. Does sounded pretty nifty.


About to start Game of Thrones riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Now.

Sweet.

[Mara]

Also read A Grief Observed by C.S. Lewis on Saturday in one sitting. In light of my own recent encounter with tragedy, I found quite a few passages in the memoir particularly striking and relevant. At 75 pages, I recommend it to everyone. Unabashed account of an emotionally naked writer.

Damn, that one's a heartbreaker. Astonishing, really.

Have you seen Shadowlands?

[Lucky]

Damn, that one's a heartbreaker. Astonishing, really.

Have you seen Shadowlands?

No, what is it? TV Show/Movie? Save me the imdb search and give me a brief synopsis.

[Lucky]

Love the style of Game of Thrones. 100 pages in. I imagine this will translate readily to television with the constantly shifting viewpoints and the short, script-like prose. Very excited for the show already and I've only scratched the surface of this world.

[Mara]

No, what is it? TV Show/Movie? Save me the imdb search and give me a brief synopsis.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108101/

It's a film made about Lewis' love affair with his wife, and her death. Very sad, and surprisingly well done. Chunks of the film were taken from A Grief Observed.

[kuehnepips]

Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon is highly recommended. Haven't read such a good book in aaaages.

[megladon8]

Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon is highly recommended. Haven't read such a good book in aaaages.


So...this may be a really stupid sounding question, but does it have anything to do with the Necronomicon, or Lovecraft-type horror stuff?

[megladon8]

Has anyone here ever read any books by China Miéville?

[megladon8]

Is this thread dead? :sad:

[D_Davis]

Has anyone here ever read any books by China Miéville?

I have not. I know he's part of the new-weird. Dan Soler (of Genrebusters fame) swore by the guy, though.

[megladon8]

I have not. I know he's part of the new-weird. Dan Soler (of Genrebusters fame) swore by the guy, though.


I bought his book "Kraken".

I hope to read it soon.

[dreamdead]

Started Hawthorne's The Blithedale Romance yesterday. It's setting up nicely thus far, and the basic critique of anti-urbanism, while also lacerating socialism, promises to be good stuff.

[Duncan]

Finally finished Midnight's Children. I guess I'd have to say that I was consistently impressed by his prose, the density of imagery, the shear creative wit, and the narrative's wild ambition. It never ever makes the mistake of being mediocre. Wondrous moments aplenty.

All that said, it just kind of grated on me. The narrator's narcissism, his self-absorption, his self-pity, his constant critiquing of his own story, the meta-commentary, his spelling out of metaphors--ah! I suppose it's all supposed to be charming, but the dude was just annoying.

So it's a book I respect the hell out of, but didn't come away loving like I had hoped. I actually had to force myself to get through some parts. Get why it's a classic, though. I wish more authors had a mind half as creative as his.

Started Hesse's Gertrude because it's a slim volume.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Oh, I finished Little Green Men a few days back. It was decent, nothing more. To be honest, it's only been a few days and I don't remember much about it. Same thing happened with Florence of Arabia, the other Buckley I've read. Buckley seems a bit too on the nose for me with his satire, and while I laugh at moments in his books, and they are entertaining, they are fleeting experiences.

On to Breakfast at Tiffany's.

[Benny Profane]

Finally finished Midnight's Children.

All that said, it just kind of grated on me. The narrator's narcissism, his self-absorption, his self-pity, his constant critiquing of his own story, the meta-commentary, his spelling out of metaphors--ah! I suppose it's all supposed to be charming, but the dude was just annoying.






COULD
NOT
AGREE
MORE.

Most annoying protagonist in history. I didn't like the book nearly as much as you. I give it a C-.

[Duncan]

Most annoying protagonist in history.
Yeah, I can't think of a more annoying narrator off the top of my head.

[lovejuice]

Finally finished Midnight's Children. I guess I'd have to say that I was consistently impressed by his prose, the density of imagery, the shear creative wit, and the narrative's wild ambition. It never ever makes the mistake of being mediocre. Wondrous moments aplenty.

All that said, it just kind of grated on me. The narrator's narcissism, his self-absorption, his self-pity, his constant critiquing of his own story, the meta-commentary, his spelling out of metaphors--ah! I suppose it's all supposed to be charming, but the dude was just annoying.

totally we are on the same wavelength. The Satanic Verse is actually better.

[megladon8]

I've never read any Rushdie.

The only book by him which I have on my shelf is "Midnight's Children".

I guess I failed in that choice.

[Benny Profane]

One day I stumbled across this "hot chicks who read" blog that showed these great pics of all these sexy girls who love to read. I've been searching high and low and I can't seem to find it again. Thought I'd put it out there, see if anyone knows the blog I'm talking about. It's killing me.

[Mara]

One day I stumbled across this "hot chicks who read" blog that showed these great pics of all these sexy girls who love to read. I've been searching high and low and I can't seem to find it again. Thought I'd put it out there, see if anyone knows the blog I'm talking about. It's killing me.

I know the female equivalent.

http://hotguysreadingbooks.tumblr.com/

[Benny Profane]

I know the female equivalent.

http://hotguysreadingbooks.tumblr.com/

See, any time you enter the words "hot" and "girls" into a google search you end up with a bunch of bukkake sites.

[megladon8]

I know the female equivalent.

http://hotguysreadingbooks.tumblr.com/



That most of the pictures seem to be ironic kind of ruins it.

[Mara]

That most of the pictures seem to be ironic kind of ruins it.

Ironic how?

[D_Davis]

There is a performance piece in Seattle right now called Naked Girls Reading. Each show features a very attractive (usually a burlesque dancer), naked, on stage, reading from a book.

[Mysterious Dude]

Ironic how?
Meg does not consider the men to be hot. He has high standards.

[Mara]

So I'm trying not to spend any money on books, because I'm broke. But there's this out of print book that I found on Amazon used in "good-- like new" quality for anywhere between $75-135 dollars... except one freakish entry which was $9. So... I got it almost out of curiousity.

[megladon8]

Ironic how?


Several of the pics look like the guys are trying to hide smirks.

"I'm reading 'Your Fertility Signals'! Get it? I'd never read this!"

Similar to the ironic mustache.

[megladon8]

Have begun reading Alistair McLeod's "No Great Mischief".

Apparently this is one of the great pieces of Canadian literature.

I'm hoping to be impressed.

[Duncan]

Have begun reading Alistair McLeod's "No Great Mischief".

Apparently this is one of the great pieces of Canadian literature.

I'm hoping to be impressed.

It's pretty good, but it's kind of like a blueprint for a successful CanLit novel, which is ultimately something I've just grown tired of. Too many serious, earnest, realist voices about family and suffering and loss and grief. They all sound exactly the same to me. Still, that's one of the better examples of the genre.

[Duncan]

Finished Gertrude by Hesse. It's about a young musician finding his calling and craft, and falling in love with a woman (named Gertrude, obviously) who in turn falls in love with his more overtly passionate best friend. It's a pretty minor work. Very stately and elegant. Restrained but incisive. He nails the experience of a quiet, melancholy artist in his time of youth. It's probably better than A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man from that perspective, but not overall. Very Nietzschean, with a bit of Buddhism thrown in, as is typical for his work.

[lovejuice]

Finished Gertrude by Hesse. It's about a young musician finding his calling and craft, and falling in love with a woman (named Gertrude, obviously) who in turn falls in love with his more overtly passionate best friend. It's a pretty minor work. Very stately and elegant. Restrained but incisive. He nails the experience of a quiet, melancholy artist in his time of youth. It's probably better than A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man from that perspective, but not overall. Very Nietzschean, with a bit of Buddhism thrown in, as is typical for his work.
weirdly enough, I can't never wholly get into this book despite being a hesse's and a classical music's fan. (and I really think he does a good job writing about music.) perhaps, the book is a bit too short for its material. I can't remember much upon finishing it.

[D_Davis]

Last night I started Shardik, by Richard Adams (Watership Down, The Plague Dogs). It's really good so far. I purchased the book awhile ago because Shardik, a giant bear, was featured in Stephen King's The Dark Tower series. I stumbled across Shardik at a thrift store, to discover that it was written by Adams.

[megladon8]

Has anyone else read Alistair MacLeod's "No Great Mischief"?

Thoughts? Opinions?

[Duncan]

weirdly enough, I can't never wholly get into this book despite being a hesse's and a classical music's fan. (and I really think he does a good job writing about music.) perhaps, the book is a bit too short for its material. I can't remember much upon finishing it.

Could be. Sometimes he has a character just outright say something profound without any real justification or evidence. It's an extremely concise book, and I think fairly elegant for that reason, but you're right: it could stand to breathe a little more.

edit: or maybe it's a case of show don't tell. He just sort of tells about how Muoth is so melancholy, but doesn't really show much evidence to support this until later in the book. There's a lot of, "I understood his character, and it was this..." type stuff followed by a paragraph summing up that character's traits completely.

[Mara]

Okay, I've made it far enough into Game of Thrones to start having an opinion (about a quarter through) and... I don't know. I'm not a huge fan of having so many protagonists, because it makes the narrative feel scattershot and makes it difficult to empathize with anyone in particular. I'll get invested in one plot but, too bad! We're spending the next five chapters with completely different people.

The book also seems to have an uncomfortable fixation on pre-teen and early teen sexuality.

But, at the same time, I'm really fascinated by the storylines so far. It's quite a feat to juggle this many storylines and (I assume) bring them all together again. And I'm a sucker for court intrigue.

For the record, I typed this without my glasses on and so I apologize for any mistakes. I'm blind.

[megladon8]

Finished "No Great Mischief".

Beautifully written, sad tale of the trials a Scottish-Canadian family faces through several generations of life in Canada.

I admire MacLeod's prose - he truly is a gifted writer. But at times I found the book meandered a little too much. It would lose focus for a chapter or two, then regain it. MacLeod seemed to have a little bit of trouble jumping back and forth in time.

However, despite this, it's a great book. Highly recommended to those looking for a bit of Canadian historical fiction.

[D_Davis]

So Shardik is really, really good. I'd be shocked if this wasn't a huge influence on Miyazaki. As a matter of fact, Studio Ghibli should make Shardik into a film - it'd be totally amazing. It's basically a huge, epic, historical fantasy dealing with humankind's (in this case an indigenous people's) relationship with nature and the ecological troubles they encounter when the spirit of the forest - God - manifests itself in the body of a giant bear. Oh wait, Studio Ghibli already made that movie. Highly, highly recommended.

[Duncan]

Read The Odes of Horace. Didn't like 'em much.

[lovejuice]

So Shardik is really, really good. I'd be shocked if this wasn't a huge influence on Miyazaki. As a matter of fact, Studio Ghibli should make Shardik into a film - it'd be totally amazing. It's basically a huge, epic, historical fantasy dealing with humankind's (in this case an indigenous people's) relationship with nature and the ecological troubles they encounter when the spirit of the forest - God - manifests itself in the body of a giant bear. Oh wait, Studio Ghibli already made that movie. Highly, highly recommended.

is it better than the bunny book? for some reason, i can't seem to force myself to finish that one. (being spoiled might be a reason.)

[D_Davis]

is it better than the bunny book? for some reason, i can't seem to force myself to finish that one. (being spoiled might be a reason.)

I haven't read the bunny book in like 20+ years, so I can't really say. I'm really loving Shardik, though.

[Mara]

So, has anyone read The Hunger Games? I had never heard of it a week ago, and I've had 5-6 people gushing about it this week. (The last book in the trilogy just came out.)

I hate to be left behind on these things.

[Sven]

So, has anyone read The Hunger Games? I had never heard of it a week ago, and I've had 5-6 people gushing about it this week.

Maybe it's just cuz I work in a bookstore, but you never having heard about this book sounds totally crazy to me. Would be like me never having heard of The Goonies.

I hear they're good books, but I have to wait til the fervor dies down to read them.

[Mara]

Maybe it's just cuz I work in a bookstore, but you never having heard about this book sounds totally crazy to me. Would be like me never having heard of The Goonies.

I don't know how I missed it. Apparently, it's a bit of a phenom.

Most people on Amazon love it, but a bunch think it's very derivative. Hmm.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I've heard nothing but bad things about The Hunger Games, though it's only been from two people. Heard it's a rip off of Battle Royale, with a bit of The Long Walk sprinkled in for good measure.

[Mara]

I've heard nothing but bad things about The Hunger Games, though it's only been from two people. Heard it's a rip off of Battle Royale, with a bit of The Long Walk sprinkled in for good measure.

This dampened my enthusiasm, so I read the summary online.

It sounds stupid. It may play out better than it summarized, but that pretty much killed my interest.

[MacGuffin]

Favorite Japanese novels, anyone?

[megladon8]

Favorite Japanese novels, anyone?


I like Murakami. I know that's an unpopular opinion around here though :sad:

[Grouchy]

Favorite Japanese novels, anyone?
I've only read some short stories by Akutagawa. Good stuff.

[MacGuffin]

I like Murakami. I know that's an unpopular opinion around here though :sad:

I'm actually asking because The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle and House of Leaves compete for my favorite novel position. I recently picked up Murakami's After Dark from the library, and although it seems like it's not one of Murakami reader's favorites, it still sounds interesting. I also put Ryu Murakami's first book on hold; I forgot the name of it.

[MacGuffin]

I also want to read that book Tokyo Vice. I'm really interested in learning more about Asian culture and stuff.

[Duncan]

Naomi by Tanazaki is pretty good. Other than that, I've only read Tale of the Heike and Tale of Genji, both in heavily abridged version. Heike was great, Genji insufferable. Both are very early novels.

edit: actually I guess I've read some Murakami, but didn't like it.

[Milky Joe]

I've neither seen the film nor read the book, but I've wanted to read Kobo Abe's Woman in the Dunes for some time now. I'd also like to read some Yukio Mishima, but haven't.

[D_Davis]

I haven't read enough Japanese fiction to make a qualified statement, but I really, really enjoyed this:

http://fictionwritersreview.com/wp-content/uploads/nocturnes-200x300.jpg

Beautiful prose and incredibly romantic. Recommended especially if you're into music.

[lovejuice]

http://fictionwritersreview.com/wp-content/uploads/nocturnes-200x300.jpg

but does it count as a japanese novel?

because then i'll say the remains of the day.

[D_Davis]

but does it count as a japanese novel?

because then i'll say the remains of the day.

Well, it's written by a Japanese author...

:)

[Mysterious Dude]

Favorite Japanese novels, anyone?
Nip the Buds, Shoot the Kids is my favorite.

Unrelated: I think I am done with Ernest Hemingway. I do not dig his style at all. It's fine in a short format (Hills Like White Elephants is good) but it is a chore to get through in a full novel. I just finished A Farewell to Arms, and it is full of incredibly mundane dialogue. I guess war is pretty mundane a lot of the time, but I'd prefer to read about the interesting parts.

[Mara]

Unrelated: I think I am done with Ernest Hemingway. I do not dig his style at all. It's fine in a short format (Hills Like White Elephants is good) but it is a chore to get through in a full novel. I just finished A Farewell to Arms, and it is full of incredibly mundane dialogue. I guess war is pretty mundane a lot of the time, but I'd prefer to read about the interesting parts.

I totally agree. In fact, I would say that the quality of his writing has an inverse relationship with the length of the work.

But his short stories are really worth it.

[D_Davis]

I love Hemingway's style. I am a fan of brevity. However, I do not like Hemingway's stories.

[Milky Joe]

I just finished A Farewell to Arms, and it is full of incredibly mundane dialogue. I guess war is pretty mundane a lot of the time, but I'd prefer to read about the interesting parts.

Read In Our Time.

[megladon8]

I like books and stories that aren't about WWII.

Because it's so fucking played out.

[Scar]

:|

[megladon8]

I'm serious. I am so tired of books, movies, games, everything WWII.

Whenever I go to Chapters I feel like 70% of the new release or "spotlight" titles about the war.

It is a subject that has completely lost any interest for me.

[Mysterious Dude]

I'm serious. I am so tired of books, movies, games, everything WWII.

Whenever I go to Chapters I feel like 70% of the new release or "spotlight" titles about the war.

It is a subject that has completely lost any interest for me.
I'm with you. I wish people would write more about some other wars. There are hardly any books about the An Lushan Rebellion.

[Milky Joe]

Did you bring that up because of Hemingway? If not, nevermind. But, you know, Hemingway never wrote anything about World War II. Or at least nothing I'm aware of.

[megladon8]

Did you bring that up because of Hemingway? If not, nevermind. But, you know, Hemingway never wrote anything about World War II. Or at least nothing I'm aware of.


No, it was just a random thought brought up by the mention of books about war in general.

And like I said, it's not just books - movies and video games are just as bad.

I can't tell you how nice it's been to be able to play some military shooters that aren't me vs. Nazis. Even "CoD: World at War" was a nice change of pace, as it took place during WWII but focused on the pacific struggle.

[lovejuice]

Nip the Buds, Shoot the Kids is my favorite.

Unrelated: I think I am done with Ernest Hemingway. I do not dig his style at all. It's fine in a short format (Hills Like White Elephants is good) but it is a chore to get through in a full novel. I just finished A Farewell to Arms, and it is full of incredibly mundane dialogue. I guess war is pretty mundane a lot of the time, but I'd prefer to read about the interesting parts.

In general, I might agree, but I happen to dig the hell out of The Sun also Rises. The main character reminds me of an slutty ex-girlfriend of mine. A kinda girl you can't help but forgive, and deep down you realize the deep, sad core of her existence.

His book is just like his short stories. There is some tiring quality to it, but it packs enough punches to be worth reading. And it's not like he wrote a 500-epic or anything.

[Derek]

I actually like Old Man and the Sea and The Sun Also Rises more than any of Hemingway's short stories. I found In Our Time to be rather mundane and Hemingway's prose to be concise and direct to such a degree that it often lost sign of a personality behind it. I'm sure it's partially my fault, but I can't help reading passages like this


The Greeks were nice chaps too. When they evacuated they had all their baggage animals they couldn't take off with them so they just broke their forelegs and dumped them into the shallow water. All those mules with their forelegs broken pushed over into the shallow water. It was all a pleasant business. My word yes a most pleasant business.

with a monotone voice.

[Milky Joe]

That's one of the more disturbing stories I've ever read, once I realized what was going on.

[Scar]

No, it was just a random thought brought up by the mention of books about war in general.

And like I said, it's not just books - movies and video games are just as bad.

I can't tell you how nice it's been to be able to play some military shooters that aren't me vs. Nazis. Even "CoD: World at War" was a nice change of pace, as it took place during WWII but focused on the pacific struggle.

As you yourself just pointed out, there's far more to WWII then just the Nazis and Europe.

[Mysterious Dude]

Does anyone else find that, once you get the hang of a book's style, it's kind of disappointing? When I first started reading A Clockwork Orange, I was impressed by the unusual language, but once I got the hang of it, I realized that Burgess was basically doing the same things over and over ("viddy" instead of "see," etc.), and it somehow became less impressive. Same deal with the language of Their Eyes Were Watching God. I imagine the author having a "cheat sheet" next to them as they write. There's nothing wrong with it, I guess, but after a while, I'm not really surprised by it anymore.

I'm reading Requiem for a Dream right now. At first, I liked the stream-of-consciousness style, but then I realized, if Selby used paragraph breaks, quotation marks and apostrophes, the prose would probably be very ordinary. What's the deal with not using apostrophes anyway? And when it's a word like "we're" or "we'll," he subsititues a slash for an apostrophe, because he knows they would look like "were" and "well" if he just left it out entirely, so now we've got "we/re" and "we/ll" and "I/ll". What is the friggin' point?

[megladon8]

As you yourself just pointed out, there's far more to WWII then just the Nazis and Europe.


Yes, but I'm also someone who has just about zero interest in military and war to begin with, so reading wartime stories doesn't really appeal to me in the first place.

And I can only read about how much the Holocaust sucked so many times before I start to get a little tired of the subject.

It's not that I don't have respect for the people who survived and fought through this time. It's that I'm just kind of sick of stories that take place during this time.

I'm looking forward to reading the copy of "The Things They Carried" that Jen got me, because it's Vietnam-based.

I guess it's the same way some people (including myself) are getting sick of superhero movies. They're a dime a dozen these days, and only one or two in those dozen are ever worthwhile.

[Benny Profane]

They're a dime a dozen these days, and only one or two in those dozen are ever worthwhile.


I recommend The Naked and the Dead by Norman Mailer. It's WW2 but takes place on an island in the South Pacific. It's also regarded as one of the best war books ever written.

I'm giving up on The Unnameable for now and started The Art of Racing in the Rain by Garth Stein, which is utter maudlin crap thus far. But I need something easy to read with a newborn. I foresee my reading being derailed for at least a little while. Don't want to take on anything too complicated right now.

[Grouchy]

I'm reading Requiem for a Dream right now. At first, I liked the stream-of-consciousness style, but then I realized, if Selby used paragraph breaks, quotation marks and apostrophes, the prose would probably be very ordinary.
I instinctively disagree with this type of complaint. If I wasn't a male, I'd be a female. If this was that, it wouldn't be this. If Memento wasn't backwards, it wouldn't be interesting.

Furthermore, once the surprise of finding any unexpected effect wears off, well, yes, it won't be as surprising. That's just obvious. If you meet a beautiful woman socially, provided nothing happens between the two of you, and then you meet her again and again, your jaw just won't drop to the floor like the first time.

[Mysterious Dude]

I instinctively disagree with this type of complaint. If I wasn't a male, I'd be a female. If this was that, it wouldn't be this. If Memento wasn't backwards, it wouldn't be interesting.
I'm not trying to say, "if it was different, it wouldn't be interesting." What I should have said was, "just taking out the paragraph breaks and apostrophes doesn't make it interesting."

As for surprises, I'm not trying to be too critical; I'm just observing (as someone who hasn't been a "serious" reader for very long). It's like the movie Far From Heaven. It seems like it has an unusual style at first, but after a few minutes, you're used to it. It's not a bad thing. But after finding The Sound and the Fury to be consistently surprising throughout, I have to get used to being only briefly surprised by other books.

[lovejuice]

Does anyone else find that, once you get the hang of a book's style, it's kind of disappointing? When I first started reading A Clockwork Orange, I was impressed by the unusual language, but once I got the hang of it, I realized that Burgess was basically doing the same things over and over ("viddy" instead of "see," etc.), and it somehow became less impressive. Same deal with the language of Their Eyes Were Watching God. I imagine the author having a "cheat sheet" next to them as they write. There's nothing wrong with it, I guess, but after a while, I'm not really surprised by it anymore.
I feel the same way but it doesn't lessen my appreciation as much as it seemingly does yours. Perhaps because English is my second language, I will never find these language tricks mundane or natural.

Have you ever read Ulysses? I wonder if you can get the hang of what Joyce is doing there.

[Milky Joe]

Well, Ulysses changes its style almost every chapter, so presumably it would be constantly refreshing. But I suppose a style that constantly refreshes itself could itself become disappointing.

[Hugh_Grant]

I'm giving up on The Unnameable for now and started The Art of Racing in the Rain by Garth Stein, which is utter maudlin crap thus far. But I need something easy to read with a newborn. I foresee my reading being derailed for at least a little while. Don't want to take on anything too complicated right now.

Congrats, Benny! I am so behind on my Match Cut news.

This weekend, I finished Douglas Rogers' The Last Resort, the memoir of how his parents were trying to hold onto their land in Mugabe-era Zimbabwe. (I am thinking about putting together a themed course on the literature of Southern Africa.)
Marco Pierre White's The Devil in the Kitchen was self-indulgent crap, ghost-written crap to boot.
Next is Aravind Adiga' The White Tiger.

[Milky Joe]

I read Philip K Dick's We Can Build You yesterday. I think it's my favorite of his novels I've read yet (aside from VALIS). I love how it purports to be about the whole concept of creating perfectly life-like simulacras of historical humans, and the societal ramifications thereof, but ends up being a meditation on mental illness and obsessive love, with the whole android thing being basically a subplot. You can really feel how his focus turned somewhere in the middle as he was writing it. Normally this would indicate a poorly written novel, but with Dick it just once again highlights his grander ambitions outweighing his identity as a 'pulp' sci-fi writer.

[megladon8]

I've begun reading "Men of Tomorrow: Geeks, Gangsters, and the Birth of the Comic Book" by Gerard Jones.

It's very good so far. I read the 10 page prologue and the first chapter (22 pages) and it's beautifully written. It's currently telling the story of the many Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe who came to live in New York City at the turn of the century, and how many of them ended up in organized crime.

[Ezee E]

Picked up Salem's Lot to read while I wait in lines or while I'm in the gondola at Telluride. Looking forward to it.

[Duncan]

Read The Human Stain by Philip Roth. I liked it much better than American Pastoral. Here he doesn't belabor his points to such an irritating degree, just lays down the raw, painful facts of these people's lives. It's got a weirdly sensationalistic/ironic premise, but it overcomes that pretty deftly. Expertly written, outraged, explicit, honest. Good novel.

Started The Collector by John Fowles. Creepy so far.

[D_Davis]

I read Philip K Dick's We Can Build You yesterday. I think it's my favorite of his novels I've read yet (aside from VALIS). I love how it purports to be about the whole concept of creating perfectly life-like simulacras of historical humans, and the societal ramifications thereof, but ends up being a meditation on mental illness and obsessive love, with the whole android thing being basically a subplot. You can really feel how his focus turned somewhere in the middle as he was writing it. Normally this would indicate a poorly written novel, but with Dick it just once again highlights his grander ambitions outweighing his identity as a 'pulp' sci-fi writer.

Nicely said. Phil's "plots" are rarely what they are said to be about...or something. While I didn't like it as much as you did, I do think it is an under-appreciated book of his. Like any great SF writer, Dick simply uses the SF elements as a catalyst to explore other areas - in this case mental illness - with some much needed perspective.

[ledfloyd]

Read The Human Stain by Philip Roth. I liked it much better than American Pastoral. Here he doesn't belabor his points to such an irritating degree, just lays down the raw, painful facts of these people's lives. It's got a weirdly sensationalistic/ironic premise, but it overcomes that pretty deftly. Expertly written, outraged, explicit, honest. Good novel.

Started The Collector by John Fowles. Creepy so far.
huh, i was looking for the human stain at the library today. i settled for indignation and delillo's point omega.

in other news my library now has a cat named stacks. which is cool.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Reading Dubliners at the moment. I love how every single story has a big anti-climax.

[Sven]

Got Under the Dome, the massive $75 edition, for TWO bucks. I have no idea when I'm going to get to it, but it's nice to be excited to visit a new work from an old favorite from whom I haven't read anything in a while.

[Mara]

Bless our poor virginity from underminers and
blowers up!

I'm shocked to find I have never before read All's Well that Ends Well. I'm seeing the play next week, so now I have to read it. I thought it was the one with the nun and the girl named Juliet-but-not-that-Juliet who gets preggers. (Apparently, that is Measure for Measure, and have you ever noticed that Shakespeare's tragic titles are very concrete, and his comedy titles are very vague? Othello is about this man named Othello, and Hamlet is about this man named Hamlet. Meanwhile, Much Ado About Nothing is about bastards and thieves and virginity and masks; and As You Like It is all cross-dressing shepherds and sluts and stuff.)

[D_Davis]

Got Under the Dome, the massive $75 edition, for TWO bucks. I have no idea when I'm going to get to it, but it's nice to be excited to visit a new work from an old favorite from whom I haven't read anything in a while.

It's so good. I think you'll love it. The first 200-300 pages is probably the best stuff King has ever written. I couldn't put it down.

[Duncan]

Finished The Collector by John Fowles. It was alright. It's about a guy who becomes obsessed with this young woman, kidnaps her, and then keeps her in his cellar. The first half of the book is told from his perspective, and it basically plays out like you would expect a psychopath's account of how he kindly kept this woman as a guest in his home for a while. It was pretty suffocating and his mind is so one-track that it becomes a little dull. The second half is told by the girl in a diary she keeps, and almost immediately the book becomes wonderfully more expansive. It turns into a kind of treatise on art and on two very vague and I would say arbitrary ways of living: as a collector or as a maker. The girl is a maker, an art student, and though the book may scream ALLEGORY a little to loudly, her fate does feel genuinely tragic. But ultimately I just didn't think what it had to say was particularly interesting, though it does do the I'm-going-to-write-a-genre-novel-that-is-secretly-a-literary-novel thing pretty well.

[Benny Profane]

Jonathan Franzen getting a ton of good pub for his latest book. Anyone plan on reading it soon?

Want to know if I should buy into the hype.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I liked The Corrections enough to give it a whirl, but with school and such, I can't say it'll be any time soon.

[Milky Joe]

I just bought it yesterday. Plan on starting it soon.

[Duncan]

I liked The Corrections a lot, but I read an excerpt from Freedom in The New Yorker a year or two ago, and it felt a little bit 19th century to me. Just very traditional storytelling, utter realism, still funny, but not nearly the irony of TC. I also read in an interview that he was trying to reach an even larger audience with this book and that he wrote it with straightforwardness in mind. All these things make me very wary. I think I'll wait until some people whose taste I've got a handle on recommend it.

[ledfloyd]

Reading Dubliners at the moment. I love how every single story has a big anti-climax.
the last paragraph of 'the dead' is one of my favorite things ever written.

[megladon8]

So...any input on how exactly one is supposed to read "The House of Leaves"?

[MacGuffin]

So...any input on how exactly one is supposed to read "The House of Leaves"?

No offense, but I'm not really sure what to tell you. Firstly, I read it in order of front cover to back, only skipping around to read footnotes. When the formatting got fucked up, I tried to look at everything on the page in the order I felt was top to bottom. I haven't read it for a few years, but I really don't remember anything too difficult and I think the concept rises above gimmick as the disjointed style of formatting adds atmosphere and flavor to the text as well as mirroring the mental states of the characters in the book; Danielewski is an admirably creative writer.

To give an example of how unsettling the story is, take that Russian hiking story I posted a few weeks ago, multiply that story's tension by ten at least, and you still wouldn't be there. The "Explorations" in the story are similar to the explorations in The Descent, but the actually exploring is plagued by unexplainable occurrences that are science-fiction and fantasy-based, so it really becomes that much more incredible and literally haunting.

[megladon8]

Well I'm talking about sections of text that are written backwards, upside down and sideways.

How do I go about reading that? Am I supposed to turn the book upside down and read it with a mirror?

[MacGuffin]

Well I'm talking about sections of text that are written backwards, upside down and sideways.

How do I go about reading that? Am I supposed to turn the book upside down and read it with a mirror?

I guess you could do that. I think when I read the book and got to those sections, I just looked at it and tried to decipher what I could (there's a whole lot of stuff in the book—including completely monotonous and pedantic, but nonetheless cool and distinctive footnotes—that really only need to be glanced through). The beauty of the whole thing is that it wants you to interact with it on a metaphysical level. It is truly a book where the reader invests as much of themselves into it as they'd like and are then rewarded in spades for doing such.

[megladon8]

"Men of Tomorrow" continues to be quite fascinating. I'm reading this one significantly slower than I have been reading books the last while, because it's quite dense. I'm finding it hard keeping some of the names (and stories accompanying them) straight.

But it's amazing to read how a character as pure as Superman came from such corrupt and scummy origins.

[megladon8]

Wow, this book cover isn't even trying to be subtle.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9553/n129653.jpg

[megladon8]

"Men of Tomorrow" was a fantastic read. Funny, sad and informative.

I learned so much about the history of comic books. I had no idea there was so much corruption and back-stabbing in the beginnings of the industry - it could give Hollywood a run for its money.

[Grouchy]

Finished Junky by William Burroughs. One of the best books I've ever read. Bill's prose is simply without match. His recollections of his years of shooting heroine achieves the level of an anthropological study of a culture and a language - and the book is surprisingly modern in its view of social classes and drug use, often pointing out the hypocrisy of anti-drug laws and enforcement. It starts with a bang and never goes down.

[megladon8]

Just read Dennis Cooper's "God, Jr." in one sitting.

Not very good. Not very good at all.

A few interesting phrases and statements but other than that, it's a mess of sentimentality and druggy weirdness.

Imagine something written by Mitch Albom if he took a few hits of acid.

[Duncan]

Gotta admit, I'm a little stuck on Ulysses. Going to take a break to read Turgenev's Fathers and Sons.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Gotta admit, I'm a little stuck on Ulysses. Going to take a break to read Turgenev's Fathers and Sons.

A permanent break, indeed.

[Duncan]

A permanent break, indeed.

I'll probably pick it back up. I'm usually pretty good about finishing books once I start.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I find I'm terrible at picking books back up after a hiatus. I just completely lose my focus on it, and don't get it back unless I was seriously engrossed in the first place. And if I was, I probably would have already finished it the first time through.

I can't imagine taking a break for however long, would be a good idea for something as dense as Ulysses, but you'd know best.

[Grouchy]

I find I'm terrible at picking books back up after a hiatus. I just completely lose my focus on it, and don't get it back unless I was seriously engrossed in the first place. And if I was, I probably would have already finished it the first time through.

I can't imagine taking a break for however long, would be a good idea for something as dense as Ulysses, but you'd know best.
I'm the same. Leaving a book unfinished is never a good idea because picking it up later becomes almost impossible for me.

[D_Davis]

I never feel obligated to finish books - or movies, or games. If I'm not digging something, I'd rather put it down on move onto something that I might. There just isn't enough time in life to force myself to sit through something that isn't working, especially when there are so many awesome things out there to enjoy.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I never feel obligated to finish books - or movies, or games. If I'm not digging something, I'd rather put it down on move onto something that I might. There just isn't enough time in life to force myself to sit through something that isn't working, especially when there are so many awesome things out there to enjoy.

I'm of this opinion as well. Never was, nor ever will be a completionist.

[Duncan]

It's not really about finishing for completion's sake for me. It's more about: 1) the idea that a work should be judged as a whole, not as a fragment, and that it is not unusual for great art to reveal itself as more than the sum of its parts; and 2) the idea that a lot of my favourite books require pretty serious engagement and effort on the reader's part, and that if I'm not constantly entertained but instead working, then that's not necessarily a bad thing and may be more rewarding in the end.

[Duncan]

And also, I pretty often have more than one book on the go, so to take a break from a 700 page novel to read a quick 240 pager isn't so big a deal.

[megladon8]

I think I'll probably read China Mieville's "Kraken" next, because I am dying to read more of his work if it's good.

Some of the premises are incredible.

"The City & The City" sounds divine.

[Melville]

Gotta admit, I'm a little stuck on Ulysses. Going to take a break to read Turgenev's Fathers and Sons.
How far are you into Ulysses? I thought its constant shifts in style made it more of a page-turner than some other long, very dense books. Didn't care much for Fathers and Sons, though.

[Duncan]

How far are you into Ulysses? I thought its constant shifts in style made it more of a page-turner than some other long, very dense books. Didn't care much for Fathers and Sons, though.

About 300 pages. Not liking Fathers and Sons much either, to be honest. Probably finish it tomorrow.

[kuehnepips]

So...this may be a really stupid sounding question, but does it have anything to do with the Necronomicon, or Lovecraft-type horror stuff?


Not at all; since you don't want to read anything WWII I'll shut up here.

And read Kraken next, too btw. When I finish Banks' Transition.

[Benny Profane]

I hated The Art of Racing in the Rain with the fire of 10,000 suns.


Started The Corrections last night, and at the rate I'm going I'll be reading it for the rest of the year.

[Mara]

David Sedaris' new book is fiction? Squirrel Seeks Chipmunk looks to be examining human scenarios through little furry critters. I'm interested.

[Kurosawa Fan]

David Sedaris' new book is fiction? Squirrel Seeks Chipmunk looks to be examining human scenarios through little furry critters. I'm interested.

When I went to his live show, he read two stories from the book, and both were fantastic. I can't wait.

[Hugh_Grant]

A student--not mine, praise the higher being--recently made waves when he demanded to be taken out of an instructor's class because the instructor was teaching subversive material.

The "subversive material"? David Sedaris

[Mara]

The "subversive material"? David Sedaris

Curious.

Subversive to whom?

[Hugh_Grant]

To conservatives?
Apparently, the student objected to Sedaris's sexual orientation. He also complained about a reading on alternative families.

Students who complain about such material are not exactly rare, but this guy was very vocal. My boss, who is awesome, sent him this email about the importance of being open-minded in college.

A friend of mine who teaches Western Civ often runs into this problem when she teaches Darwin.

[Mara]

I went to a private religious university, so complaints weren't unheard of, but I would imagine that most people who go to college aren't dead set against being exposed to any ideas other than their own.

I do remember a girl complaining about Moll Flanders in one of my classes.

[Hugh_Grant]

This is a public college, and whenever this sort of issue arises, I can't help but wonder why these students didn't go to a private college if this is obviously such a sticking point in their education. The last I heard was this student would be removed from the class, and he will have to wait a semester to take it again, and hopefully, the next instructor will not have David Sedaris on the syllabus.

My favorite story: A really irate parent called my former boss about what she felt was an inappropriate movie on her son's Introduction to Film Studies syllabus. The movie? Dr. Strangelove. This person just assumed that it was some sort of porno based on the title. Sigh.

[Mara]

Before I saw that film, I thought it was about some sort of James Bond villain.

[Milky Joe]

I'd request to leave that class too, though I doubt for the same reason.

[EvilShoe]

So David Foster Wallace's unfinished novel gets released (http://www.avclub.com/articles/david-foster-wallaces-unfinished-novel-gets-a-rele,45214/) in April.
Will wait to see how the feedback is before picking it up, though.

[Milky Joe]

The comments over there make me want to stab something.

[Sven]

The comments over there make me want to stab something.

I am so happy that I have thus far been successful in eschewing news item comment sections. I forget they even exist. I don't understand why they're still around, in all honesty. Who seriously thinks they're a good idea?

[ledfloyd]

i will definitely be reading that. i've been waiting for it for years. i'm just disappointed it's unfinished.

[Hugh_Grant]

I'd request to leave that class too, though I doubt for the same reason.

Why?

[Grouchy]

Students who complain about such material are not exactly rare, but this guy was very vocal. My boss, who is awesome, sent him this email about the importance of being open-minded in college.
I could never be that calm and tolerant with idiots. The moment someone objected to a piece on literature being taught on moral or religious grounds, I'd probably just buy a Vatican flag and a rosary and set them on fire in front of the whole class.

[Milky Joe]

Why?

Because David Sedaris sucks balls!

Err...

[Duncan]

Finished Fathers and Sons. I ended up quite liking it. The plot is kind of meandering--two young friends go here, then they go here, then they go here or back there or wherever--but there are some touching moments in the meantime. That nihilism was I guess something of a novelty around this time really dates the book. Some of the discussions feel like 11th grade English class. But in the end, this Bazarov character (dedicated to science, anti-Romantic, denier of the more redeeming emotions) came across to me as a bit tragic, and I have to admit I was moved. Silly epilogue, though.

[Hugh_Grant]

Because David Sedaris sucks balls!

Err...
Oh, okay. :)

[ledfloyd]

picked up franzen's freedom today. there was a sticker on the cover saying it's in oprah's book club. i laughed. guy can't win.

i broke my 'don't buy anymore physical media' pledge. but if it's as good as the corrections and as good as the hype has led me to believe i won't regret it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

picked up franzen's freedom today. there was a sticker on the cover saying it's in oprah's book club. i laughed. guy can't win.


Are you joking? He can't possibly win any more than that. That's the ultimate win. The critics have already read your work and praised it, and so lit buffs are already interested. Then you add Oprah's stamp of approval, which makes millions of housewives around the country buy your novel and you get rich as shit?

Yeah, poor Franzen. :lol:

[Duncan]

Are you joking? He can't possibly win any more than that. That's the ultimate win. The critics have already read your work and praised it, and so lit buffs are already interested. Then you add Oprah's stamp of approval, which makes millions of housewives around the country buy your novel and you get rich as shit?

Yeah, poor Franzen. :lol:

Plus people get to write even more articles about how the last time she did that he dissed her.

Plus there was all that Obama buzz when he got a free copy.

Plus his face was on the cover of Time with the caption Great American Novelist.

[ledfloyd]

Yeah, poor Franzen. :lol:
well, i was referring to how he complained when she selected the corrections. it's just funny to me that she would select his next book.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Ah, my apologies. I wasn't aware that he complained the last time she selected him. I thought you were saying that landing on Oprah's list was embarrassing. My fault.

[Benny Profane]

Oprah has pretty good taste in books. Credit where it's due.

[megladon8]

Oprah has pretty good taste in books. Credit where it's due.


"The Secret" disagrees with you.

[Hugh_Grant]

David Carr's Night of the Gun is a "reformed addict" narrative, and books in this non-fiction subgenre are a dime a dozen, as the author admits several times therein. But the spectre of James Frey looms over this work. After misremembering the titular incident involving a firearm, Carr wonders how any of these ex-junkie-turned-authors could so vividly recall pivotal moments in their lives when he was too drunk/high/stoned to do so himself. The resulting book is part autobiography/part biography, as Carr takes an additional role of reporter, interviewing key players in his past, so they can fill in those gaps and make the story of his life as truthful as possible.

[megladon8]

Have begun reading China Miéville's "Kraken" and it is delightfully weird so far.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the story unfolds.

[kuehnepips]

Have begun reading China Miéville's "Kraken" and it is delightfully weird so far.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the story unfolds.


Same here. "Unfolds" is a scary word meanwhile (page 103) ...

[dreamdead]

Halfway through John Dos Passos's The 42nd Parallel, the first in his USA trilogy. So far it's nicely moved beyond the socialist proletarian revolution that the first 100 pages argues toward, and actually seems to suggest that women desire something more than early 20th century materialism, which was his earlier book Manhattan Transfer's biggest failure. With Newsreel and Camera Eye sections splitting up the narrative it's formally ambitious, so hopefully it'll end strong.

[Mara]

During my vacation, spare time + availability of the books conspired to get me to read The Hunger Games trilogy. It was neither as good as I had heard, nor as bad as I had feared. They are certainly very readable and overall pretty fun, although the second one was the weakest, narratively.

Collins has some definite strengths. She writes action scenes brilliantly, and that's not easy. Some of the sequences had me breathless. She also has a knack for characterization. The heroine was surprisingly complex and engaging for a YA book (which often have wish-fulfillment lead females.) The two main guys were boring, but under them were a parade of interesting and likeable minor characters.

The main problems with the books were in the pacing. Sometimes fifty pages would go by with almost nothing happening, and then when action did occur, it didn't really fit in with the flow of the book. She has trouble building and sustaining suspense, and every single one of the trilogy has a false ending, with a new and ill-thought-out subplot introduced in the last twenty pages. Who does that? Seriously?

I was also annoyed by the romantic aspects of the book. Collins understands action, violence, peril, and gore. When she tries to be romantic, though, the writing feels forced and awkward. There is zero chemistry between the heroine and the two men vying for her. The book completely grinds to a halt when exploring romance, with all other action ceasing and people talking and thinking about their feelings for pages and pages and PAGES. It is unspeakably dull.

On the bright side, the third book moves away from the romantic subplots and is whizz-bang fun.

Overall, probably worth a look. I finished each book in under four hours, so there's minimal commitment. The social commentary and politics are a little facile, but come on, it's a young adult novel. At least it tries.

[megladon8]

"Kraken" continues to be a very addictive read. Miéville's prose are unlike anything I've ever read before.

It's becoming a tad convoluted, but I have a feeling he's going to tie everything together quite nicely.

This one is taking me a little longer to get through because last week and this week are insane at work. Last week I clocked 35 hours in just the first 3 1/2 days.

[Benny Profane]

I wish I had more time to read The Corrections because every time I pick it up I don't want to put it down. Will definitely be reading Freedom soon.

Some contemporary authors besides Franzen I've been reading good things about:

Jonathan Lethem
Gary Shtynegart
Sam Lipsyte


Comments welcome if you've read anything by them.

[D_Davis]

I've only read a couple of Lethem books, and both were, admittedly, pretty good Philip K. Dick pastiches; he's a big Dick fan. I haven't read any of his more mainstream fiction, like Motherless Brooklyn. I want to read more, and I have a few more of his books on my shelf. I've heard great things, but I've yet to experience the greatness. Gun With Occasional Music was good, but I couldn't help shake the feeling that it was just a pastiche of other new wave SF. I get the sense that he's a SF author that mainstream fiction readers feel safe with, in that he won't blow their lit-cred or something. He's a good writer, though; better than Dick in terms of prose, but from what I've read he lacks in novel ideas.

[Benny Profane]

I've only read a couple of Lethem books, and both were, admittedly, pretty good Philip K. Dick pastiches; he's a big Dick fan. I haven't read any of his more mainstream fiction, like Motherless Brooklyn. I want to read more, and I have a few more of his books on my shelf. I've heard great things, but I've yet to experience the greatness. Gun With Occasional Music was good, but I couldn't help shake the feeling that it was just a pastiche of other new wave SF. I get the sense that he's a SF author that mainstream fiction readers feel safe with, in that he won't blow their lit-cred or something. He's a good writer, though; better than Dick in terms of prose, but from what I've read he lacks in novel ideas.

Cool, thanks. I am late to the party as usual, I didn't realize he'd written so many already. Thought he was a relative newcomer.

Heard great things about Chronic City, that was the main reason I listed him. Didn't even realize he was considered sci-fi. I have no such thing as "lit-cred".

[D_Davis]

Cool, thanks. I am late to the party as usual, I didn't realize he'd written so many already. Thought he was a relative newcomer.

Heard great things about Chronic City, that was the main reason I listed him. Didn't even realize he was considered sci-fi. I have no such thing as "lit-cred".

I cam late to the party, too. Just read him this year, although a few of his books have been on my shelf for some time.

I think he dabbles in SF (more speculative fiction, than sci-fi). He's probably an author who'd embrace the term "spec-fi." From what I've read, he reminds me of Dick and Ballard, but he's a better prose writer than Dick, and not as cold, experimental and clinical as Ballard. I, too, have heard great things about Chronic City. I want to read that and Motherless Brooklyn sometime soon.

[ledfloyd]

Jonathan Lethem
i'm really fond of fortress of solitude. it's one of my favorite books of the last decade. motherless brooklyn and chronic city are also very good. you don't love me yet not so much.

[Mara]

My book group wants to read The Help by Kathryn Stockett and I find myself with grave reservations. Anything written by a white woman in the 21st century about black women in the 1960's strikes me as ripe for error. Plus, apparently, she attempts vernacular.

I'm vaguely reminded of The Secret Life of Bees, and that book was stupid.

Has anyone read it? Does it have worth?

[Benny Profane]

Hunter S. Thompson's cover letter for a job application to the Vancouver Sun (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Hunter+Thompson+brutally+hones t+Canadian+request/3606508/story.html)




Sir,


I got a hell of a kick reading the piece Time magazine did this week on The Sun. In addition to wishing you the best of luck, I'd also like to offer my services.


Since I haven't seen a copy of the "new" Sun yet, I'll have to make this a tentative offer. I stepped into a dung-hole the last time I took a job with a paper I didn't know anything about (see enclosed clippings) and I'm not quite ready to go charging up another blind alley.


By the time you get this letter, I'll have gotten hold of some of the recent issues of The Sun. Unless it looks totally worthless, I'll let my offer stand. And don't think that my arrogance is unintentional: it's just that I'd rather offend you now than after I started working for you.


I didn't make myself clear to the last man I worked for until after I took the job. It was as if the Marquis de Sade had suddenly found himself working for Billy Graham. The man despised me, of course, and I had nothing but contempt for him and everything he stood for. If you asked him, he'd tell you that I'm "not very likable, (that I) hate people, (that I) just want to be left alone, and (that I) feel too superior to mingle with the average person." (That's a direct quote from a memo he sent to the publisher.)


Nothing beats having good references.


Of course if you asked some of the other people I've worked for, you'd get a different set of answers.


If you're interested enough to answer this letter, I'll be glad to furnish you with a list of references — including the lad I work for now.


The enclosed clippings should give you a rough idea of who I am. It's a year old, however, and I've changed a bit since it was written. I've taken some writing courses from Columbia in my spare time, learned a hell of a lot about the newspaper business, and developed a healthy contempt for journalism as a profession.


As far as I'm concerned, it's a damned shame that a field as potentially dynamic and vital as journalism should be overrun with dullards, bums, and hacks, hag-ridden with myopia, apathy, and complacence, and generally stuck in a bog of stagnant mediocrity. If this is what you're trying to get The Sun away from, then I think I'd like to work for you.


Most of my experience has been in sports writing, but I can write everything from warmongering propaganda to learned book reviews.


I can work 25 hours a day if necessary, live on any reasonable salary, and don't give a black damn for job security, office politics, or adverse public relations.


I would rather be on the dole than work for a paper I was ashamed of.


It's a long way from here to British Columbia, but I think I'd enjoy the trip.


If you think you can use me, drop me a line.


If not, good luck anyway.


Sincerely, Hunter S. Thompson

[Duncan]

Awesome. I read that with today's copy of the Vancouver Sun beside me. The front page headline: "Baby boomers engaging in risky sex, survey finds." Different world from Thompson's, I guess.

[D_Davis]

Cory Doctorow interviews William Gibson

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/10/05/audio-from-last-nigh.html

Haven't listened, yet, but I bet it's awesome.

[lovejuice]

MLV gets nobel prize. I should have finished that one book of his I started, so I could tell other people I have read him before he goes superstar.

[kuehnepips]

MLV gets nobel prize.

Never read anything by this guy. Where is Grouchy when we need him?

[Grouchy]

Never read anything by this guy. Where is Grouchy when we need him?
Well, I've read La Ciudad y los Perros, which apparently is titled Time of the Hero in English. Good book.

[ledfloyd]

so, i'm through 230 pages of freedom in ~36 hours. i can't remember the last time i was into a book like this.

[Grouchy]

To celebrate Vargas Llosa's Nobel win, here is a picture of Gabriel Garcia Marquez after he was thumped in the face by Mario:

http://www.intermaniacos.com/attachments/general/1061d1225035546-gabriel-garcia-marquez.jpg

[ledfloyd]

so, i'm through 230 pages of freedom in ~36 hours. i can't remember the last time i was into a book like this.
so yeah, at the risk of overselling it. this is the best book i've read in a long long time. it completely lived up to the hype and reminded me why i love reading so much. it's not without it's faults but i think it's incredibly adept at capturing the timbre of the bush years. much like the corrections captured the late 90s. both through the microcosm of a middle-class midwestern family. franzen seems to have perfected the social realist novel and i just hope we don't have to wait as long for his next book.

i would be surprised if i read five books published in the next decade that i enjoy more.

[Duncan]

Read Miguel Syjuco's Ilustrado a while ago. The unpublished manuscript won the Man Asian Prize, and it has since gone on to enjoy success and acclaim. It's about this student whose mentor, a famous Filipino author, is found dead in the Hudson River. Ruled a suicide, the student (also called Miguel Syjuco) thinks differently, and heads to the Philippines in search of the truth, and a lost manuscript. It's kind of an ultra-modernist, post-colonial, super-literary mystery book. I dunno. It was pretty good. Syjuco is clearly a pretty brilliant guy, but I found the book was so concerned with its blog posts and blog comments and diary entries and flashbacks and interview excerpts and novel excerpts and autobiographical excerpts that it just killed any dramatic drive it may have had. That is, up until the end, which is kind of a twist, but also weirdly emotionally gripping. Really the only time in the novel I was truly invested in what was happening. As a side note, I found the fonts annoying. It's supposed to make it easier for the reader to distinguish between different storytelling methods, but sometimes the small, italicized stuff is just difficult to read.

About halfway through David Mitchell's Cloud Atlas, which I am loving except for the Luisa Rey part.

[ledfloyd]

About halfway through David Mitchell's Cloud Atlas, which I am loving except for the Luisa Rey part.
i liked the luisa rey part. it kind of let's you relax a bit, and it's positioned well for that. also, i've always been a sucker for a detective story. but yes, it doesn't seem as high concept as the other parts. still, one of my favorite books of the last decade.

[Benny Profane]

So, The Corrections. Take out the Lithuania part and you got yourself a pretty perfect book.

Not that that was bad, or anything. Just felt very out of place.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Gave up on the awful Day By Day Armageddon. That stuff is just not my thing.

Moved on to The Woman in the Dunes by Abe. Liking it so far.

[Duncan]

So, The Corrections. Take out the Lithuania part and you got yourself a pretty perfect book.

Not that that was bad, or anything. Just felt very out of place.

Agree. I also didn't think the section on the cruise ship was great, but other than that, yeah, seriously good book.

[Benny Profane]

Agree. I also didn't think the section on the cruise ship was great, but other than that, yeah, seriously good book.

OK, yeah. Especially the part about the doctor prescribing a club drug to a septuagenarian. Forgot about that whole ridiculous conversation.

[Mara]

I powered through The Corrections on a train ride when it first came out, and I read it so quickly that I barely remember anything... except Aslan and the druggie cruise. And something about a liquor cabinet and someone limping. And a woman has an affair with both a husband and wife.

That's it. That's all I remember.

[Duncan]

Finished Mitchell's Cloud Atlas. He's a hell of a writer. Takes on a multitude of voices and masters them more convincingly than most authors can master just one. I must say I liked the first half a lot better than the second half. In the beginning, you're discovering these new voices and being led into these new worlds, new plots, new character motivations, but in the latter half, a lot of it degrades into, like, really basic thriller mechanics. Both speculative pieces (these reminded me of all Foundation's worst tendencies, but written way better), the Luisa Rey part, and even Cavendish's section, to a certain degree, became extended chase sequences complete with action movie cliches. I was really disappointed. I mean, sentence to sentence, the writing's never less than stellar, but ultimately it felt repetitive and landed in fairly standard ruminations about the nature of man, etc. But then it ends off with Frobisher and Ewing, and those were definitely my favourite parts. Both seemed like the most fully realized characters, and both deal with suicide, depression, isolation, loneliness, creation--in short, things Mitchell is probably a lot more familiar with, personally, than, say, gunfights or vast corporate conspiracies or all-out war.


Started reading Hear Us Oh Lord from Heaven Thy Dwelling Place by Malcolm Lowry.

[ledfloyd]

huh, i enjoyed the second half more than the first. the way climax after climax piles up it's kind of thrilling. but i never though it devolved into cliche.

also, you corrections fans should read freedom. i'm interested in hearing your opinions on it.

[Duncan]

huh, i enjoyed the second half more than the first. the way climax after climax piles up it's kind of thrilling. but i never though it devolved into cliche.

also, you corrections fans should read freedom. i'm interested in hearing your opinions on it.
Really?
Paraphrasing the Luisa Rey story: Joe Napier says, wow, that turned out easy, but IRONY, he gets shot and killed at just this moment by Bill Smoke, who actually starts monologue-ing, giving Joe, who it turns out isn't really dead, time to reach for his gun and shoot Bill. That's a total cliche.

In the Zachary story, he gets captured by slavers, thinks Meronym must be dead, but, hey, it turns out she escaped, eluded detection by dressing up as the enemy (a cliche in itself) and shows up at just the right moment to rescue him, commenting afterwards, "I'm getting too old for this." Is this Lethal Weapon 4 or a great literary novel?

These sorts of things just seemed ridiculous to me is a book that was otherwise so original.

[ledfloyd]

Really?
Paraphrasing the Luisa Rey story: Joe Napier says, wow, that turned out easy, but IRONY, he gets shot and killed at just this moment by Bill Smoke, who actually starts monologue-ing, giving Joe, who it turns out isn't really dead, time to reach for his gun and shoot Bill. That's a total cliche.

In the Zachary story, he gets captured by slavers, thinks Meronym must be dead, but, hey, it turns out she escaped, eluded detection by dressing up as the enemy (a cliche in itself) and shows up at just the right moment to rescue him, commenting afterwards, "I'm getting too old for this." Is this Lethal Weapon 4 or a great literary novel?

These sorts of things just seemed ridiculous to me is a book that was otherwise so original.
well the entire luisa rey story was a cliche so that was kind of the point. and if i'm remembering right, the cavendish character was influenced by/read/watched the luisa rey story so it could have been a case of life imitating (bad) art? granted, it's been two or three years since i read it and my recollection of the details is a bit cloudy. at the time i was reading it though i had no complaints.

he is a great writer though, i've never gotten around to reading any of his other novels. but i need to do that sometime.

[Chac Mool]

Mitchell's an awesome writer. I won't rank or compare him to others (what's the point), but the way he combines vast themes (the random connections between humans, reincarnation, the end of the world) with intimate, detailed settings (a frozen pond in 1980s England, a coffee shop in tomorrow's Tokyo, a train transporting backpackers over the Mongolian steppes, a remote island in Ireland) and challenging structures (the Russian-doll of styles in Cloud Atlas, the connected dots in Ghostwritten, the comic-book-novel in Number9Dream, the novellas in Black Swan Green) is extraordinary. He also understands the effectiveness of using modern iconography (the car chase, the assassin, the gangster) to enthrall the reader, and connect him to the story's deeper aspects.

I've read every one of his books save "The Thousand Autums of Jacob de Zoet" (it's next up), and they're all terrific.

[Benny Profane]

Marry Me: A Romance bu Updike features more adulterous, unlikeable characters, however these are a lot more "mainstream" than Rabbit. Two middle-class thirty-something couples living in Connecticut go through a summer of indecisiveness of whether to stay together (for ease, for security, for the children) or break their marraiges and pursue passion and inspiration. While the wavering can get pretty exhausting, it does a great job of portraying what it means to be infatuated with someone you shouldn't be. The guilt, the selfishness, the one-track mind. The idea of a person compared to who they really are and what they can deliver. And Updike has a way of describing things that is just amazing (if sometimes a little heavy-handed).

Now reading Chronic City by Lethem.

[Duncan]

Read Tinkers by Paul Harding. Won the Pulitzer. Seriously gorgeous stuff. Mostly images, very little story. Poetic, lyrical, etc. But also very sad. At the same time, it feel like a kind of small book, as if the whole is less than the sum of its parts, all of which are finely-tuned instruments of beauty.

[Duncan]

Read Tinkers by Paul Harding. Won the Pulitzer. Seriously gorgeous stuff. Mostly images, very little story. Poetic, lyrical, etc. But also very sad. At the same time, it feel like a kind of small book, as if the whole is less than the sum of its parts, all of which are finely-tuned instruments of beauty.

Just to give you guys an idea of how good the prose is, here's a scene in which a guy imagines his father's thoughts while the father tries to pick up an apple:

"Hands, teeth, gut, thoughts even, were all simply more or less convenient to human circumstance, and as my father was receding from human circumstance, so, too, were all of these particulars, back to some unknowable froth where they might be reassigned to be stars or belt buckles, lunar dust or railroad spikes. Perhaps they already were all of these things and my father's fading was because he realized this: My goodness, I am made from planets and wood, diamonds and orange peels, now and then, here and there; the iron in my blood was once the blade of a Roman plow; peel back my scalp and you will see my cranium covered in the scrimshaw carved by an ancient sailor who never suspected he was whittling at my skull--no, my blood is a Roman plow, my bones are being etched by men with names that mean sea wrestler and ocean rider and the pictures they are making are pictures of northern stars at different seasons, and the man keeping my blood straight as it splits the soil is named Lucian and he will plant wheat, and I cannot concentrate on this apple, this apple, and the only thing common to all of this is that I feel sorrow so deep, it must be love, and they are upset because while they are carving and plowing they are troubled by visions of trying to pick apples from barrels. I looked away and ran back upstairs, skipping the ones that creaked, so that I would not embarrass my father, who had not quite yet turned back from clay into light."