The Book Discussion Thread

[Mara]

I am Legend by Richard Matheson - It's OK. I didn't love it, didn't dislike it.

Good to know. I was sorely disappointed by this one.


Neuromancer by William Gibson - Don't like this at all. Totally overrated, and nearly unreadable today. It's all jargon, no heart, no soul.

Wow-- I might have liked it better than you, then. I would say I mildly disliked it.

I think, after ruminating for a couple minutes, my favorite science fiction novels are by writers who aren't really science fiction writers; people who are trained in a different form of writing (generic fiction, for example) who are dabbling in the science fiction genre, much in the way that I am a general fiction reader dabbling in the science fiction pool.

I think you (Davis) are more of a purist. I think you see SF more as an end unto itself and not a lens that can be taken on and off.

This is all speculative. (Pun not intended. But still-- ha!)

[Qrazy]

I will. Although I imagine most of the numbering will be mostly (totally?) arbitrary, and there will be lots of repeats of certain authors.

Reasonable, my lists tend to be vague approximations of my value judgments but they tend to be generally accurate... such that on any given day I may prefer number two to number three but I probably would never prefer number two to number ten.

[D_Davis]

Above all, I really like a good story. If the author also injects some great prose-style and social commentary into the mix, then all the better.

I'm a sucker for narrative, and it just so happens that many of my favorites also contain a great deal of social commentary and some of those have some good style.

[Qrazy]

Above all, I really like a good story. If the author also injects some great prose-style and social commentary into the mix, then all the better.

I'm a sucker for narrative, and it just so happens that many of my favorites also contain a great deal of social commentary and some of those have some good style.

Have you read Swan Song? The prose is middling and I have major issues with it but it's a pretty solid post-apocalyptic narrative. It strikes me as something you might like (based more on your movie taste than your book taste which I don't know that well).

[D_Davis]

Wow-- I might have liked it better than you, then. I would say I mildly disliked it.

...

This is all speculative. (Pun not intended. But still-- ha!)

I read Gibson's book in high school - and I didn't like it at all. I liked the stuff he inspired (The Shadowrun RPG), but to me Gibson came off as wannabe Philip K. Dick, but he lacked Dick's pathos. I tried to reread Neuromance a fwe years ago and I couldn't even make it half way. Gibson has gone on to write some amazing books, so I don't dislike him (Pattern Recognition is graet).

And I don't dislike cyberpunk, as you will see on the list.


And, and that pun was out of this world!

[D_Davis]

Have you read Swan Song? The prose is middling and I have major issues with it but it's a pretty solid post-apocalyptic narrative. It strikes me as something you might like (based more on your movie taste than your book taste which I don't know that well).

Couldn't get more than 100 pages into it. Some of the worst prose I've ever read. Normally I can overlook poor craftsmanship for a good story, but I couldn't hang with Swan Song. It was the dialog that did it - so totally on the nose.

I do want to read Boy's Life by the same author.

[Mara]

And, and that pun was out of this world!

*rimshot*

[Qrazy]

Couldn't get more than 100 pages into it. Some of the worst prose I've ever read. Normally I can overlook poor craftsmanship for a good story, but I couldn't hang with Swan Song. It was the dialog that did it - so totally on the nose.

I do want to read Boy's Life by the same author.

Yeah I agree, still I thought you'd like the story.

[Mara]

After five minutes' worth of careful consideration, I have decided there are not enough science fiction picture books.

I shall now write one.

[D_Davis]

Yeah I agree, still I thought you'd like the story.

I should probably just burn through it, because I've heard from a number of people that the story is awesome.

[Qrazy]

I should probably just burn through it, because I've heard from a number of people that the story is awesome.

It has some pretty cool moments. It's one of the few books that I think is a fairly poor book but that would make quite a good film. I'm actually not sure how much I like the overall narrative. But I do like isolated narratives within the larger story. Everyone in my high school class aside from me and one other guy seemed to love it though.

[ledfloyd]

i went to the library during lunch. i picked up flannery o'connor the complete stories, the death of ivan ilyich and other stories, the lottery and other stories, and also we have always lived in the castle cause i've been wanting to read it.

[Melville]

Given my taste in literature—my favorite authors are Dostoevsky, Melville, Hamsun, Joyce, and Faulkner—what SF should I try?

I've probably asked that before, but being repetitive is my job.

[ledfloyd]

Given my taste in literature—my favorite authors are Dostoevsky, Melville, Hamsun, Joyce, and Faulkner—what SF should I try?

I've probably asked that before, but being repetitive is my job.
have you read vonnegut?

[D_Davis]

Given my taste in literature—my favorite authors are Dostoevsky, Melville, Hamsun, Joyce, and Faulkner—what SF should I try?

I've probably asked that before, but being repetitive is my job.

I'd check out The Best Short Stories of J.G. Ballard (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312278446/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p= 304485901&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0805038760&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1YF2RADXZDV1PF22DC85). See how that fits ya.

Or maybe Stanislaw Lem - try Solaris, or The Cyberiad.

[Melville]

have you read vonnegut?
Slaughterhouse-Five, Breakfast of Champions, and Player Piano. Didn't like any of them.

EDIT: are any of Ballard's stories available online?

[ThePlashyBubbler]

I'm about 300 pages into Infinite Jest. Really enjoying it so far, trying to finish it up before I have to head back to school in a few weeks.

[D_Davis]

EDIT: are any of Ballard's stories available online?

Not sure. I'll check around for some.

When I get my Complete Short Story collection, in a couple of weeks when it's published, I can send you my copy of The Best Short Stories of.... if you're interested.

[Qrazy]

Given my taste in literature—my favorite authors are Dostoevsky, Melville, Hamsun, Joyce, and Faulkner—what SF should I try?

I've probably asked that before, but being repetitive is my job.

I think we will both like the Strugatsky brothers but I'll have to try them first and let you know. They wrote what Stalker was based on as well as Letters from a Dead Man and Days of Eclipse (both of these latter films are worth checking out). They also wrote the novel that Aleksei German's new film (not yet out) is based on.

I haven't read Lem but from what I've heard he's also probably a good bet.

You could also give Bear's Eon a look and Asimov's Foundation series. Don't go into them expecting the psychological nuance or literary inventiveness of your favorite authors though. Expect an interesting story with an interesting world which explores conceptually interesting ideas and you'll get more out of them.

[Melville]

Not sure. I'll check around for some.

When I get my Complete Short Story collection, in a couple of weeks when it's published, I can send you my copy of The Best Short Stories of.... if you're interested.
Wow, that's a very nice thing for you to do. Unfortunately, my apartment is overflowing with books, so I'd rather get a taste of what he's like before I get a whole book by him. But I feel bad turning down such a nice gesture.


You could also give Bear's Eon a look and Asimov's Foundation series. Don't go into them expecting the psychological nuance or literary inventiveness of your favorite authors though. Expect an interesting story with an interesting world which explores conceptually interesting ideas and you'll get more out of them.
Yeah, exploring interesting ideas is good. When people like Davis talk about how great SF can be, it always strikes me as having a very similar appeal as Borges' stories. So I guess something similar to him would be the best bet.

[Qrazy]

Wow, that's a very nice thing for you to do. Unfortunately, my apartment is overflowing with books, so I'd rather get a taste of what he's like before I get a whole book by him. But I feel bad turning down such a nice gesture.


Yeah, exploring interesting ideas is good. When people like Davis talk about how great SF can be, it always strikes me as having a very similar appeal as Borges' stories. So I guess something similar to him would be the best bet.

Of course literary sci fi I'm sure exists (I would hope Strugatsky, Lem and others might provide it) I just haven't read it yet. I haven't read any Borges.

[D_Davis]

Melville, the more I think about it the more I think you'd enjoy Stanislaw Lem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem

His best works are often surreal, satirical, comedic, and thought-provoking.


SFWA controversy

Lem was awarded an honorary membership in the Science Fiction Writers of America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy_Wr iters_of_America) (SFWA) in 1973 despite being technically ineligible. SFWA Honorary membership is given to people who do not meet the criteria for joining the regular membership but who would be welcomed as members. Lem, however, never had a high opinion of American science-fiction, describing it as ill thought-out, poorly written, and interested more in making money than in ideas or new literary forms.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem#cite_note-faq.htm_sfwa-9) After his American publication, when he was eligible for regular membership, his honorary membership was rescinded. Some of the SFWA members apparently intended this as a rebuke,[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem#cite_note-10) and it seems that Lem interpreted it thus, but the organization's official line is that honorary membership is only extended to people who are not eligible for regular membership. After his American publication, Lem was invited to stay on with the organization with a regular membership, but declined.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem#cite_note-SFWA-11)

Lem singled out only one American SF writer for praise, Philip K. Dick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_K._Dick) - see the 1986 English-language anthology of his critical essays, Microworlds. Dick, however, considered Lem to be a composite committee operating on orders of the Communist party to gain control over public opinion, and wrote a letter to the FBI to that effect.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem#cite_note-12) After many members (including Ursula K. Le Guin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_K._Le_Guin)) protested Lem's treatment by the SFWA, a member offered to pay his dues. Lem never accepted the offer. He had also been critical of science fiction in general, and had recently distanced himself from the genre, saying that his early works may have been SF, but his later ones were more mainstream.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem#cite_note-faq.htm_sfwa-9)[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem#cite_note-SFWA-11)

[D_Davis]

Wow, that's a very nice thing for you to do. Unfortunately, my apartment is overflowing with books, so I'd rather get a taste of what he's like before I get a whole book by him. But I feel bad turning down such a nice gesture.


No problem. I'll have no need for it, so I might as well pass it along. Just let me know.

[D_Davis]

Here is the article Lem wrote on PKD:
Philip K. Dick: A Visionary Among the Charlatans (http://www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues/5/lem5art.htm)


Those looking for a more literary and scholarly approach to the genre will probably find a great deal of worth Science Fiction Studies, published three times per year by the DePAUW University.

http://www.depauw.edu/SFs/

[Eleven]

Those looking for a more literary and scholarly approach to the genre will probably find a great deal of worth Science Fiction Studies, published three times per year by the DePAUW University.

http://www.depauw.edu/SFs/

Alma mater in da house!

Speaking of, my senior English seminar was on American utopianism in reality and in fiction, and we read Octavia Butler's apocalyptic Parable of the Sower. Read it, D?

[D_Davis]

Alma mater in da house!

Speaking of, my senior English seminar was on American utopianism in reality and in fiction, and we read Octavia Butler's apocalyptic Parable of the Sower. Read it, D?

I've yet to read Butler - shame on me.

I want to read more SF written by women.

I love the Science Fiction Studies journals. I ordered a collection of all the essays they've published on PKD, and the issue they devoted to Olaf Stapledon.

[Melville]

Melville, the more I think about it the more I think you'd enjoy Stanislaw Lem.
Yeah, after reading up on him for a few minutes, he sounds pretty interesting; it would be cool to compare Tarkovsky's Solaris to Lem's novel. Actually, Ballard also sounds pretty interesting.

[D_Davis]

Ballard was (God it pains me to say was, rather than is), IMO, one of the more fascinating figures of modern literature. He possessed a broad scope, working within the realms of traditional literature, speculative fiction, and experimental prose, while honing his singular vision detailing the fragile nature of modern urban living.

That the same author gave us The Atrocity Exhibition and Empire of the Sun is amazing.

[Milky Joe]

Lem singled out only one American SF writer for praise, Philip K. Dick - see the 1986 English-language anthology of his critical essays, Microworlds. Dick, however, considered Lem to be a composite committee operating on orders of the Communist party to gain control over public opinion, and wrote a letter to the FBI to that effect.[13]

Ha. What a guy.

[Eleven]

I've yet to read Butler - shame on me.

I want to read more SF written by women.

I love the Science Fiction Studies journals. I ordered a collection of all the essays they've published on PKD, and the issue they devoted to Olaf Stapledon.

Surprisingly, besides a few initial mentions when pimping the English department during tours, SFS was never really brought up in any of my classes. Not that there was much SF besides that utopianism course, although I missed on a few classes by one of its editors (who's also a film buff, I understand). Parable of the Sower has some cool interior monologues by its empath heroine as she's literally trapped in a gated community while environmental and social disasters go on around her.

As for Ballard, I've read The Best Short Stories..., Crash and Empire, all terrific. There were some nice obits, in Salon and the Guardian, I think, that call for a major reevaluation by the "serious" literary establishment.

[Milky Joe]

Since I'll take any opportunity to pimp the writing of DFW, here is a review he wrote (http://www.theknowe.net/dfwfiles/pdfs/Wallace-Exploring_Inner_Space.pdf) of Ballard's collection War Fever that he uses to talk more broadly about Ballard's worth. I'm sure Davis will be interested to read this at least.

[D_Davis]

Ha. What a guy.

Here is the letter PKD wrote to the FBI:

http://english.lem.pl/index.php/faq#P.K.Dick



Philip K. Dick to the FBI, September 2, 1974

I am enclosing the letterhead of Professor Darko Suvin, to go with information and enclosures which I have sent you previously. This is the first contact I have had with Professor Suvin. Listed with him are three Marxists whom I sent you information about before, based on personal dealings with them: Peter Fitting, Fredric Jameson, and Franz Rottensteiner who is Stanislaw Lem's official Western agent. The text of the letter indicates the extensive influence of this publication, SCIENCE-FICTION STUDIES.

What is involved here is not that these persons are Marxists per se or even that Fitting, Rottensteiner and Suvin are foreign-based but that all of them without exception represent dedicated outlets in a chain of command from Stanislaw Lem in Krakow, Poland, himself a total Party functionary (I know this from his published writing and personal letters to me and to other people). For an Iron Curtain Party group - Lem is probably a composite committee rather than an individual, since he writes in several styles and sometimes reads foreign, to him, languages and sometimes does not - to gain monopoly positions of power from which they can control opinion through criticism and pedagogic essays is a threat to our whole field of science fiction and its free exchange of views and ideas. Peter Fitting has in addition begun to review books for the magazines Locus and Galaxy. The Party operates (a U..S.] publishing house which does a great deal of Party-controlled science fiction. And in earlier material which I sent to you I indicated their evident penetration of the crucial publications of our professional organization SCIENCE FICTION WRITERS OF AMERICA.

Their main successes would appear to be in the fields of academic articles, book reviews and possibly through our organization the control in the future of the awarding of honors and titles. I think, though, at this time, that their campaign to establish Lem himself as a major novelist and critic is losing ground; it has begun to encounter serious opposition: Lem's creative abilities now appear to have been overrated and Lem's crude, insulting and downright ignorant attacks on American science fiction and American science fiction writers went too far too fast and alienated everyone but the Party faithful (I am one of those highly alienated).

It is a grim development for our field and its hopes to find much of our criticism and academic theses and publications completely controlled by a faceless group in Krakow, Poland. What can be done, though, I do not know.

[Milky Joe]

Here is why PKD is my favorite sci-fi writer: because not only did he write it, he quite literally lived it.

[Mara]

I had no idea that Dick suffered from psychotic episodes. It looks as though it was too late of onset for schizophrenia (since he was in his forties before it started.) I wonder what happened.

How sad.

[D_Davis]

Since I'll take any opportunity to pimp the writing of DFW, here is a review he wrote (http://www.theknowe.net/dfwfiles/pdfs/Wallace-Exploring_Inner_Space.pdf) of Ballard's collection War Fever that he uses to talk more broadly about Ballard's worth. I'm sure Davis will be interested to read this at least.

Nice - thanks for the link. War Fever is amazing, and contains my favorite Ballard short story - The Secret History of WWIII (which, surprisingly, is not in The Best Short Stories of...).

Ballard is already greatly praised and admired throughout the scholarly and literary worlds - although they often overlook (or choose to ignore) his SF stuff.

Anthony Burgess's introduction in The Best Short Stories of... argues that Ballard is among the greatest writers of our time, and that science fiction is the the only important fiction being produced today (it was written in 1978).

The final quarter of that book is remarkable, and includes:

The Drowned Giant
The Terminal Beach
The Cloud-Sculpters of Coral D
The Assassination of JFK Considered as a Downhill Motor Race
excerpts from The Atrocity Exhibition
Plan for the Assassination of Jacqueline Kennedy
Why I Want to Fuck Ronald Reagan.

I highly recommend all of these.

[D_Davis]

I had no idea that Dick suffered from psychotic episodes. It looks as though it was too late of onset for schizophrenia (since he was in his forties before it started.) I wonder what happened.

How sad.

Buckle your seat belt...

Most of his more "out there" fiction was, according to him, autobiographical in nature.

Check out this comic by R. Crumb detailing one of PKD's many life experiences:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3230/Robert-Crumb-The-Religious-Experience-of-Philip-K-Dick



Here is why PKD is my favorite sci-fi writer: because not only did he write it, he quite literally lived it.


PKD's life was more fantastic, dramatic, and harrowing than just about any SF novel I've read.

[D_Davis]

Ballard's collection of non-fiction, A User's Guide to the Millennium, is also very good.

Ballard knew modern urban living, and understood the impact it had on modern man. This was his singular vision: examining the way in which we live and interact with the technological world we've created.

His novellas Concrete Jungle and Running Wild are great examples of this.

And also in War Fever is "The Index." It's just an index of a biography of man who lived an extraordinary life. It's amazing to think that at the end of it all, no matter how great a life may be, it can all be summed up with a number of bullet points.

[ledfloyd]

I had no idea that Dick suffered from psychotic episodes. It looks as though it was too late of onset for schizophrenia (since he was in his forties before it started.) I wonder what happened.
drugs i think.

[Milky Joe]

drugs i think.

think it was a little more complicated than that...

[Winston*]

Hey KF I read that book The Zero. Pretty good.

[ledfloyd]

think it was a little more complicated than that...
yeah, i was just going by the vague memories i have of the scanner darkly commentary i listened to probably over 2 years ago. seemed to imply his abuse of amphetamines fueled his paranoia.

[Milky Joe]

Went to Powell's to buy the new Pynchon today, but forgot that it was only in hardcover. Bought Gaddis' Carpenter's Gothic for $5 instead. Fuck buying hardcover.

[MacGuffin]

I don't like hardcover books either.

[D_Davis]

drugs i think.


think it was a little more complicated than that...

Yeah. The drugs didn't help things (or maybe they did?), but it was probably far more complicated than that.


yeah, i was just going by the vague memories i have of the scanner darkly commentary i listened to probably over 2 years ago. seemed to imply his abuse of amphetamines fueled his paranoia.

They fanned the flames of an already burning fire.

He had a right to be paranoid as well. His house was broken into twice, and each time valuable manuscripts and other personal documents were stolen.

[Mara]

I don't like hardcover books either.

I love hardcover books. I don't like paying for them.

[Eleven]

I love hardcover books. I don't like paying for them.

Libraries FTW? Pynchon's might be the first new book I purchase in about a year.

[Benny Profane]

Libraries FTW? Pynchon's might be the first new book I purchase in about a year.


I bought it and read the first 30 pages this morning. It's pretty funny so far.

[Eleven]

I bought it and read the first 30 pages this morning. It's pretty funny so far.

Cool. I've been skimming some reviews that are complimentary, calling it his most accessible, fun, and conventionally readable. Then there's our favorite Pynchon snob, Jonathan Rosenbaum, in Slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2224020/) calling it a "retread" and probably missing the esoterica.

[Benny Profane]

Cool. I've been skimming some reviews that are complimentary, calling it his most accessible, fun, and conventionally readable. Then there's our favorite Pynchon snob, Jonathan Rosenbaum, in Slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2224020/) calling it a "retread" and probably missing the esoterica.

I love how every review of a Pynchon novel deals with its "accessibility", mine included.

If this is legit, and I believe it is, it's way cool:

Thomas Pynchon narrates promotional video for Inherent Vice. (http://www.thomaspynchon.com/inherent-vice.html)

[Kurosawa Fan]

Hey KF I read that book The Zero. Pretty good.

Awesome. I need more details.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I finished Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. It was kind of a disappointment. I think the Disney film version, and how often I watched it, spoiled much of the magic of the book. I had a hard time pushing their images of each character out of my head to create my own imaginings. It also felt a bit slapdash. Just little blips thrown together to give it a surreal, dream-like feeling, but it didn't work for me. Maybe it's because I never remember my own dreams? For whatever reason, the book just fell flat. Still planning on reading Through the Looking Glass. It's short enough, and I'd like to see how that one goes.

[D_Davis]

I finished Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. It was kind of a disappointment. I think the Disney film version, and how often I watched it, spoiled much of the magic of the book. I had a hard time pushing their images of each character out of my head to create my own imaginings. It also felt a bit slapdash. Just little blips thrown together to give it a surreal, dream-like feeling, but it didn't work for me. Maybe it's because I never remember my own dreams? For whatever reason, the book just fell flat. Still planning on reading Through the Looking Glass. It's short enough, and I'd like to see how that one goes.

Man, that's too bad. I love that book. I've got a really nice annotated, over-sized, hardcover version of it. It's a beautiful book with tons of great information. I love the art of the original, it's so evocative of the mood and atmosphere.

[Grouchy]

I finished Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. It was kind of a disappointment. I think the Disney film version, and how often I watched it, spoiled much of the magic of the book. I had a hard time pushing their images of each character out of my head to create my own imaginings. It also felt a bit slapdash. Just little blips thrown together to give it a surreal, dream-like feeling, but it didn't work for me. Maybe it's because I never remember my own dreams? For whatever reason, the book just fell flat. Still planning on reading Through the Looking Glass. It's short enough, and I'd like to see how that one goes.
I think if you're approaching it looking for a three-act plot structure, you're bound to be disappointed.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I think if you're approaching it looking for a three-act plot structure, you're bound to be disappointed.

I wasn't.

[Qrazy]

I wasn't.

You seemed to be expecting more fluidity than it was striving for... I tend to view it as an intro. philosophy narrative. It's a great book to get kids thinking about word usage, meaning and the nature of reality. It's also funny and it certainly has a very memorable story.

[Winston*]

Awesome. I need more details.

Well I thought it did a very good job of putting you inside the lead character's head and relating his sense of confusion. Also, quite dug the satire of the absurdity of the war on terror, thought that escalated pretty nicely. Felt it mostly fell short of greatness though, thought quite a few times that I should've found this or that funnier or more affecting. Did find the ending pretty affecting though, reminded me a bit of A Farewell to Arms. I can't write about books.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Well I thought it did a very good job of putting you inside the lead character's head and relating his sense of confusion. Also, quite dug the satire of the absurdity of the war on terror, thought that escalated pretty nicely. Felt it mostly fell short of greatness though, thought quite a few times that I should've found this or that funnier or more affecting. Did find the ending pretty affecting though, reminded me a bit of A Farewell to Arms. I can't write about books.

Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I also liked the statement of how easy it is for people to forget the past, even something as important and impacting as September 11th. I thought the end was pretty devastating.


In other news, I've decided to read One Hundred Years of Solitude by Marquez.

[Mara]

One Hundred Years of Solitude by Marquez.

I need to give this another shot. I tried to read it when I was 15 and gave up. Since then I've had greater exposure to magical realism, and I've VERY much enjoyed a couple short stories by Marquez:

The Most Beautiful Drowned Man in the World --this should have made my favorites list. An embarassing oversight.
A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings

[Kurosawa Fan]

I need to give this another shot. I tried to read it when I was 15 and gave up. Since then I've had greater exposure to magical realism, and I've VERY much enjoyed a couple short stories by Marquez:

The Most Beautiful Drowned Man in the World --this should have made my favorites list. An embarassing oversight.
A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings

Chronicle of a Death Foretold is my favorite Marquez, though I haven't read much.

[Hugh_Grant]

A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings
Thumbs up.

I should be done with McEwan's The Innocent sometime later today.

[ledfloyd]

so i read 'we have always lived in the castle' ridiculously fast. it was great. i think i like this shirley jackson person.

[D_Davis]

Continuing the short story love, check out:

The Drunkard’s Dream by Joseph Sheridan Le Fanu

http://www.classicreader.com/book/2555/1/

A fantastic example of early supernatural, literary horror.


And while Reason rejects as absurd the superstition which will read a prophecy in every dream, she may, without violence to herself, recognize, even in the wildest and most incongruous of the wanderings of a slumbering intellect, the evidences and the fragments of a language which may be spoken, which has been spoken to terrify, to warn, and to command. We have reason to believe too, by the promptness of action, which in the age of the prophets, followed all intimations of this kind, and by the strength of conviction and strange permanence of the effects resulting from certain dreams in latter times, which effects ourselves may have witnessed, that when this medium of communication has been employed by the Deity, the evidences of his presence have been unequivocal. My thoughts were directed to this subject, in a manner to leave a lasting impression upon my mind, by the events which I shall now relate, the statement of which, however extraordinary, is nevertheless accurately correct.


And one of my all-time favorites, The Yellow Sign, by Robert W. Chambers:

http://www.horrormasters.com/Text/a0191.pdf

[Benny Profane]

Anton Corbijn and Tom Waits to Release Photo/Lyric Book (http://www.twentyfourbit.com/post/156605491/anton-corbijn-and-tom-waits-to-drop-photo-lyric-book)

[D_Davis]

Anton Corbijn and Tom Waits to Release Photo/Lyric Book (http://www.twentyfourbit.com/post/156605491/anton-corbijn-and-tom-waits-to-drop-photo-lyric-book)

Nice.

[BuffaloWilder]

I can't decide upon the good-to-bad story ratio with I Shudder At Your Touch.

[Duncan]

Read Harmonium, a poetry collection by Wallace Stevens. It was really good. Liked its explorations of the soul being outside of oneself, the world as taking on dimensions through personal imagination, the way he twists familiar images into unfamiliar forms. Some of the poems are pretty tough to crack. Partially because they're so abstruse, partially because I really should have read them with a dictionary handy. I thought I had a decent vocabulary, but...


Also read Howards End by E.M. Forster. Another great book. Like Mara said, very clean prose. There's a lot of plot, but there's not much plot drive. It's almost all character interactions and motivations, and he seems to nail everything. Totally precise characterizations. I don't think there was an image I liked more than Beethoven fighting goblins on a universal stage at the beginning of the book (mostly because I thought it was funny), but there are plenty of other good images in there. I think it came to somewhat too pat of an ending, but there were a few scenes (especially when the two sisters meet after Helen has been traveling) that are cathartic and moving.


And I'm also a little over halfway done The Gathering by Anne Enright. Won the 2007 Booker. Enjoying it so far.

[ledfloyd]

i read Zadie Smith's On Beauty and loved it. it's apparently loosely based on Howard's End. i need to read Howard's End.

[thefourthwall]

I really enjoyed On Beauty but for it to really nail the Howards End association, I wish there would have been some differences at the very end. Howards End is one of my most favorite books, but I really appreciated that Smith calls her novel "a love letter to Howards End," so potentially she knew best when doing her rendition.

[Kurosawa Fan]

120 pages into One Hundred Years of Solitude and I'm having a hard time putting it down. Marquez is amazing.

[Duncan]

Finished The Gathering earlier today. I thought it was good, not great. The conceit is that it's written in the first person by a woman grieving for her fuck up brother, telling the story of her huge, Irish family along the way. The plot is very elliptical, and the prose is hard, kind of cold. It's obviously written by a pro, someone who has a tight grip on what she wants to say and how she wants to say it. But it also strikes me as another one of these prestige books, very well written, but not so thematically ambitious. Not that there isn't a lot of territory covered. Sex, grief, and memory, mostly. It's just...I don't know. I wish there was more.

[Milky Joe]

I read a few pages of the 'new' Roberto Bolaño book today, and it seemed like it would be really, really good. But again, hardcover. That there are six more of these coming out in the next two years is a delightful notion indeed.

[Mara]

i read Zadie Smith's On Beauty and loved it. it's apparently loosely based on Howard's End. i need to read Howard's End.

I love Howard's End. So I guess I need to read On Beauty.

[Spaceman Spiff]

In other news, I've decided to read One Hundred Years of Solitude by Marquez.

Excellent book.

[kuehnepips]

I bought it and read the first 30 pages this morning. It's pretty funny so far.

Still funny?

[Benny Profane]

Still funny?

Definitely. Not "crack up laughing" type funny, but lots of intelligent, snappy humor.

[Amnesiac]

Who here has read Anna Karenina? What did you think?

[thefourthwall]

Anna Karenina was surprisingly readable (sometimes I find Russian novels intimidating) and enjoyable. Some really interesting, classic themes, and one of the best opening lines... "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

[thefourthwall]

I do remember being surprised at how quickly it read, so if you've got a couple hours a day for a week, you might be okay.

[Winston*]

Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I also liked the statement of how easy it is for people to forget the past, even something as important and impacting as September 11th. I thought the end was pretty devastating.



The latest episode of the This American Life podcast reminded of The Zero. You should listen to it IMO.

http://feeds.thisamericanlife.org/talpodcast

[Kurosawa Fan]

The latest episode of the This American Life podcast reminded of The Zero. You should listen to it IMO.

http://feeds.thisamericanlife.org/talpodcast

I download it every week, though admittedly I don't listen to every one. I'll make a point to listen to this while I commute this week. Thanks.

[Spinal]

Just finished Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything. It's really quite overwhelming in the amount of extraordinary information it throws at you, putting into perspective how ridiculously unlikely our existence on Earth is and also how frightfully fragile. Perhaps more astonishing than his summary of what science currently knows is his outlining of things you might suspect scientists know but don't. You'll learn things like how sparse the fossil record is for human ancestors and how haphazard the history of animal categorization has been. You'll be confronted with knowing that there are some concepts about the universe that you'll never be able to fully grasp no matter how hard you try (the size of an atom for example). And you'll get plenty of facts with which to amuse annoy people at parties (Jefferson wanted Lewis and Clark to look for mammoths roaming the middle of the country! The man who was responsible for leaded gasoline also invented CFCs!) Anyway, a good read and a book that's made me look closer at the world around me and appreciate what I've got.

[Qrazy]

So I'm finally reading the 7th Harry Potter. Man he passes out a lot in this book.

[Qrazy]

Thanks for the reply. I'd like to read it, as I'm nearing the end of my summer and I want to jam in as many personal reads as possible, but the page length seems a little intimidating as I also want to move onto some other things. Damn time constraints.

As a counter point to the thefourthwall I find that it reads incredibly slowly. I've read about 300 pages in the past 6 months but I've taken extended breaks to read other things. It has a lot going for it. It's general statement about class and class dynamics, it's singular descriptions of specific emotions and Tolstoy's ability to draw to elucidate and distinguish individual characters are the highlights for me. However it just hasn't gotten to a point where it's genuinely held my interest and I don't think this has anything to do with my background since in the past I've breezed through Turgenev, Dostoyevsky, Beckett, Joyce, etc. It's well worth reading but not exactly a page turner, at least for me. I think once I'm finished I'll probably end up sharing Duncan's thoughts on the book.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished the Marquez. Wow. What a novel. Hopefully I'll be able to formulate some half-assed thoughts by tomorrow. In case I don't, know that I'm blown away right now.

[Grouchy]

It seems so weird that you guys are reading (and enjoying) Garcia Marquez in English... It shouldn't be so weird since I've read some English writers who heavily use slang in Spanish, at least for the first time around. And yet, with Garcia Marquez, it seems very bizarre. But I guess the same is true for any other writer.

[Qrazy]

It seems so weird that you guys are reading (and enjoying) Garcia Marquez in English... It shouldn't be so weird since I've read some English writers who heavily use slang in Spanish, at least for the first time around. And yet, with Garcia Marquez, it seems very bizarre. But I guess the same is true for any other writer.

Kudos to the translators... and double kudos to whoever reads a ton of translations and decides which ones are best... hopefully they're correct.

[Kurosawa Fan]

When it comes to Marquez, I don't know any different, so that helps. I don't speak or read Spanish, but whoever is translating must be doing a phenomenal job.

As for One Hundred Years of Solitude, I loved it. Marquez seamlessly weaves into his fictional town of Macondo the real and surreal, as well as the natural and supernatural, so that while I was reading nothing seemed out of place or suspicious. The family history of the Buendias was endlessly fascinating. I love how Marquez calls into question everything that is considered meaningful in life, and how he seems to suggest that nothing really matters beyond our own peace of mind. Using a word from the title, which is repeated often throughout the novel, no matter how close we try to get to those around us, or the world around us, our own solitude keeps us from knowing anyone or anything completely beyond ourselves. We all have to face death alone. I'm really amazed by how much Marquez packed into such a small novel, not only subject and theme, but also humor and tragedy. It seems to touch every emotion as it progresses to its conclusion. Truly a special novel.


Moving on to The Infernal Desire Machines of Dr. Hoffman by Angela Carter.

[Eleven]

Apropos of both this thread and Mara's short stories one, a blogger at the Guardian online has been doing a cool series on short story authors (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog+series/abriefsurveyoftheshortstory). I'm going through them in order and picking up on blind spots (Julian Maclaren-Ross) as well as writers I like that need wider attention (Walser and Pritchett).

[Kurosawa Fan]

Moving on to The Infernal Desire Machines of Dr. Hoffman by Angela Carter.

I just read the first 40 pages of this. :eek:

What a brilliant, brilliant start. Carter is a master of prose. That first chapter was just gorgeous to read. If she continues like this and the conclusion is as satisfying as the beginning, I'll be in love.

[ledfloyd]

Apropos of both this thread and Mara's short stories one, a blogger at the Guardian online has been doing a cool series on short story authors (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog+series/abriefsurveyoftheshortstory). I'm going through them in order and picking up on blind spots (Julian Maclaren-Ross) as well as writers I like that need wider attention (Walser and Pritchett).
i really need to give barthelme a shot. i always hear him in short story discussions, but i haven't read a thing by him.

[Benny Profane]

i really need to give barthelme a shot. i always hear him in short story discussions, but i haven't read a thing by him.

Seconded.

[Eleven]

i really need to give barthelme a shot. i always hear him in short story discussions, but i haven't read a thing by him.


Seconded.

A handful of stories online. (http://www.jessamyn.com/barth/) His stuff is relatively short, like flash fiction.

[Milky Joe]

"The Balloon" is one of my favorite Barthleme short stories.

[Mara]

Home sick. Read Sturgeon's The Dreaming Jewels, which for some reason my edition has renamed The Synthetic Man, apparently because there was a demand to have spoilers in the title.

I liked it much, much better than my experience with Dick, even though I occasionally found his decisions irritating, and the plot made no damn sense. But he has a good sense of character and interpersonal relationships. Somewhat charming, and it only took about three hours to read.

[Raiders]

I just read the first 40 pages of this. :eek:

What a brilliant, brilliant start. Carter is a master of prose. That first chapter was just gorgeous to read. If she continues like this and the conclusion is as satisfying as the beginning, I'll be in love.

I predict you'll be in love.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Reason 86 Why I Love Goodwill:

The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay for $1.

Looking forward to reading it.

I also picked up Books of Blood I - III by Barker and The Stars My Destination by Bester, the second one mostly because of Daniel Davis's unstopping praise.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Fun question: how many books on your shelves are unread?

I was curious today after my buys, so I went ahead and sorted it out, and I actually ended up with less than I expected: twenty-five books. Among those unread are:

The Romance of Tristan and Iseult
The Divine Comedy: Inferno
The Prince
Candide
The Koran
Le Morte d'Arthur

So, you know, at least they aren't vital literature or anything.

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9286/facepalmsmiley1ti3.gif

[Mara]

I have organized my to-read stack (I keep them out) and it's surprisingly high at the moment. I think there's about twenty. Most of them I bookmooched.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Fun question: how many books on your shelves are unread?


Holy crap. This could take me all day.

[Melville]

Fun question: how many books on your shelves are unread?
Around 300. But I've been buying fewer books lately, so hopefully I'll slowly reduce that number.

[Mara]

I pulled over my whole stack. Let's see.

Netherland by Joseph O'Neill: recently came out, started it last year, forgot about it. Seemed to have quite a bit about cricket.
The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious by C.G. Jung: I've read portions, but want to read the whole thing cover-to-cover.
The Italian by Ann Radcliffe: turgid gothic horror/romance from 1797. Holy crap, why haven't I read this yet?
A Reliable Wife by Robert Goolrick: just came out recently, blind-bought it based on the Post review, but haven't had any interest in it since then.
The Audacity of Hope by Barack Obama: trying to read the other one first. See later entry.
The Professor and the Madman: The Tale of Murder, Insanity, and the Making of the Oxford English Dictionary by Simon Winchester: I still really want to read this. Why haven't I read this? It looks awesome.
A Civil Contract by Georgette Heyer: on loan from a friend, it's a favorite of hers, so I feel compelled to finish it. I read the first third and was bored. I should just read it.
The Dollmaker by Harriette Arnow: Why do I have this? It doesn't even look interesting.
Ghost Stories by M. R. James: D. Davis recommended. Looks cool. Will read.
Enchanted Hunters: The Power of Stories in Childhood by Maria Taber. Started this. Fascinating, but I've had too much to do.
Down a Dark Hall by Lois Duncan: Eh, I like this stuff. It will take me an hour.
Bless Me, Ultima by Rudolfo Anaya: Highly recommended, but I'm having a hard time drumming up interest.
The Secret Life of Words: How English Became English by Henry Hitchings. Christmas present. Looks cool.
Dreams from My Father by Barack Obama: I've been stuck two-thirds of the way through for months. Halfway through it just DIED.
The Wings of the Dove by Henry James: I'm embarassed that I've never read this. It hurts my cred.
The Columbia History of the World. It's.... huge.

And the three books I am actually actively reading and I carry in my tote:

The Court of the Air by Stephen Hunt: Started last night, seems fun.
Eleusis: Archetypal Images of Mother and Daughter by Carl Kerenyi: fascinating, informative, and absorbing. Almost done with this.
The Art of Fiction by John Gardner: Read the preface this week. It looks amazing.

[Hugh_Grant]

I pulled over my whole stack. Let's see.

Netherland by Joseph O'Neill: recently came out, started it last year, forgot about it. Seemed to have quite a bit about cricket.

The Professor and the Madman: The Tale of Murder, Insanity, and the Making of the Oxford English Dictionary by Simon Winchester: I still really want to read this. Why haven't I read this? It looks awesome.



Netherland does have a lot of cricket references, but don't let that stop you.

Winchester's book is great. It was referenced in The Wikipedia Revolution, one of my most recent reads.

[Mysterious Dude]

I did it. I read one book for every decade since the 1890's. It only took me eight months; I read a few other books in between.

1890's: Dracula ***
1900's: The Jungle ***
1910's: A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man **
1920's: Zeno's Conscience ***½
1930's: Nasuea ***
1940's: Confessions of a Mask ***½
1950's: Lolita ***½
1960's: Slaughterhouse-Five ****
1970's: If on a Winter's Night a Traveler ***½
1980's: Beloved ***
1990's: The God of Small Things ***½
2000's: Half of a Yellow Sun ***

Was it worth it? Hard to say, but I'm going to do it again anyway. This time, I'm starting with ancient literature, specifically The Satyricon by Petronius. I'm not going to do the every-decade thing until I get to the mid-19th century.

[Milky Joe]

Major fail with your Portrait rating. But impressive nonetheless. :)

[Mysterious Dude]

Major fail with your Portrait rating.
I found it a real chore. Sometimes the stream-of-consciousness method works for me (I love The Sound and the Fury, for example) and sometimes it doesn't. I had a hard time with this book and Kerouac's On the Road.

[Benny Profane]

Major fail with your Portrait rating. But impressive nonetheless. :)

Nah, I'd say it's right on the money.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Fun question: how many books on your shelves are unread?


A quick scan of my living room and I'm already at 141. Yikes.

[Eleven]

Bought Inherent Vice and the Cannes issue of Film Comment with Christoph Waltz on the cover. Got another-terrific-novelist's-take-on-noir, Denis Johnson's Nobody Move from the library.

And don't even ask about the unread books on my shelves.

[Benny Profane]

I have unread books on the shelf but they belong to my wife, meaning I'm not planning on reading them. I buy my books one at a time.

[Milky Joe]

Nah, I'd say it's right on the money.

Your currency must be inflated or something, because it's one of the greatest books ever written.

[lovejuice]

I just read the first 40 pages of this. :eek:

What a brilliant, brilliant start. Carter is a master of prose. That first chapter was just gorgeous to read. If she continues like this and the conclusion is as satisfying as the beginning, I'll be in love.
rep, and if you ask me, it has one of the best endings in any book.

[Grouchy]

Ugh, I got 27 books to-read at the moment. That without counting those that have been to-read from years ago.

[thefourthwall]

The Professor and the Madman: The Tale of Murder, Insanity, and the Making of the Oxford English Dictionary by Simon Winchester: I still really want to read this. Why haven't I read this? It looks awesome.

I'll second Hugh Grant; it is awesome. And I felt very smarmy reading it. Though admittedly, I'm a bit of a dictionary freak--one of my very favorite gifts ever was a print copy of the OED.



And the three books I am actually actively reading and I carry in my tote:


You actively carry three books around with you at a time? Just to have options?

[thefourthwall]

Match-cut, when do you read?

I feel like I've gotten out of habit with reading a lot, and I'd like to change that. Are most of you sitting down for an hour or two a day? An afternoon a week? Or just a few minutes here and there?

[Mara]

The friend who gave me the OED will be my friend forever. That alone was enough to put her over the top.

I normally only carry one book with me, but I will carry two if one is non-fiction. (I take my non-fiction in doses.) Three is a bit of a record-- I have to finish one off to feel really comfortable.

I read aloud in the mornings and afternoon because I commute with my mother, but it's usually a book I've read before. (Right now it's The Female Quixote by Charlotte Lennox.) Otherwise, I read on my lunch breaks or before I go to bed. If it's a weekend, I might spend an hour or two in the afternoon.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Match-cut, when do you read?

I feel like I've gotten out of habit with reading a lot, and I'd like to change that. Are most of you sitting down for an hour or two a day? An afternoon a week? Or just a few minutes here and there?

I read during my lunch hour at work, and then I read about four or five evenings out of the week for at least an hour, usually two or three depending on how tired I am. I used to go through dry spells too, but over the last four years I've been reading non-stop. Not sure what changed. I think I'm just excited by all the books sitting around my house that are waiting to be read.

[ledfloyd]

i usually read for an hour or two every night before bed. and usually in the mornings when i wake up on the weekends.

[Spun Lepton]

I'm currently reading World War Z, and enjoying it quite a bit. I'm only on the 2nd chapter. The book is bigger than I was anticipating.

[Benny Profane]

I finished Inherent Vice a few days ago. While I liked it a lot for what it was, it was pretty disappointing coming from Pynchon. It lacked the urgency of his other works, the brilliance of his prose, the memorable phrases, the one-of-a-kind style that he has. It worked pretty well as a noir and a commentary on the end of an era, and it had a lot of good humor, it definitely falls short of greatness. Still, worth a read.

[Kurosawa Fan]

ATTN: Haruki Murakami

Read The Infernal Desire Machines of Doctor Hoffman. Take notes. Learn from it. That is how surreality is done.

What a brilliant book. HIGHLY recommended to everyone, especially Davis if you haven't read it yet.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'm going with Franny and Zooey next. It's about time I read something else by Salinger, considering my unabashed love for Catcher in the Rye.

[thefourthwall]

I'm going with Franny and Zooey next.

Love love love this book: 1. It cemented a super-duper college friendship for me. 2. Taught me the word "ablutions." 3. Is wunderbar with the characters' ennui.

[Duncan]

I'm about 200 pages into The Recognitions by Gaddis. Only 800 pages to go! It's excellent so far though, so I'm not complaining.

[lovejuice]

ATTN: Haruki Murakami

Read The Infernal Desire Machines of Doctor Hoffman. Take notes. Learn from it. That is how surreality is done.

What a brilliant book. HIGHLY recommended to everyone, especially Davis if you haven't read it yet.

what do you think of the ending of dr. hoffman? albertina's last words are among the most moving quotations i have ever read.

are we interested in doing semiotic argument on what is and what is not surreality? i don't particular associate carter as a surrealist, but i can see the connection.

[Milky Joe]

I'm about 200 pages into The Recognitions by Gaddis. Only 800 pages to go! It's excellent so far though, so I'm not complaining.

Nice. I got to page 333 before I stalled. Hope to pick it up again soon, maybe for my impending 3-day train ride across the country.

[Kurosawa Fan]

what do you think of the ending of dr. hoffman? albertina's last words are among the most moving quotations i have ever read.

Pretty amazing. The last line of the book as well.


are we interested in doing semiotic argument on what is and what is not surreality? i don't particular associate carter as a surrealist, but i can see the connection.

I'm certainly no authority on the subject, nor on Carter herself, but there were many aspects and moments in this novel that I would personally label surreal.

[D_Davis]

The most surreal novel I've read is Michael Cisco's The Divinity Student. It also happens to be the best book of fiction I've ever read. It is masterful.

The main character, The Divinity Student, dies. His body is taken, cut open, and stuffed with the pages of books. He is then brought back to life to become a word finder; he is sent on a quest to discover new words, and to fill in his ledger with his discoveries. During this quest he learns to use alchemy to bring others back from the dead and to journey into their minds to discover new words. He's chased by driverless cars, befriends a strange butcher, and discovers worlds beyond the imagination.

The prose is beautiful, the pages teeming with haunting imagery. I could almost feel, taste, and touch the world Cisco creates. It is a book unlike any other I've ever read.

[jamaul]

I finished Inherent Vice a few days ago. While I liked it a lot for what it was, it was pretty disappointing coming from Pynchon. It lacked the urgency of his other works, the brilliance of his prose, the memorable phrases, the one-of-a-kind style that he has. It worked pretty well as a noir and a commentary on the end of an era, and it had a lot of good humor, it definitely falls short of greatness. Still, worth a read.

A year ago I caught a real Pynchonian vibe watching the Coen's Burn After Reading, what, with all the meaningless intrigue, satire, inherent dumbness of the characters, etc. While reading Inherent Vice, I got a real Coen-esque vibe, especially the Coen's Big Lebowski. In fact, it was pretty hard for me not to imagine Doc looking somewhat like the Dude. I think part of the reason it lacks urgency is because Doc lacks urgency. The times, they are a-changin' around him; life of a P.I. is getting less and less glamorous, and when things get, I dunno, a little too heavy, Doc rolls a J, takes a break and usually hits up the grocery for some munchies. Yeah, it's really adolescent coming from the guy who composed Mason & Dixon, but it was also a very fun read. Sure, it's Pynchon-lite, but I thought there were numerous moments where the prose was as good as ever, or dialogue that snapped off the page just as well as it has in previous Pynchon novels.

Was it great? Nah, it didn't ever feel as if it was striving to be. I think Pynchon may have grown a little tired of the weightiness of Against the Day-sized novels and opted for a fun, brisk little excursion. Back to my Coen comparison, I think Pynchon is an avid movie-watcher, and when he attempts these sort of lighter works (i.e., Crying of Lot 49, Vineland), it's a way for him to lay off the density and attempt a narrative that reads almost like, well, a movie. I thought the setting was fun, the characters colorful, the era well-conveyed. For all of its comedy and irreverence, it was kind of amazing that it all came from the mind of a 72 year-old. I'm glad age hasn't reduced him to a curmudgeon.

All of that said, here's hoping Pynchon has another bedazzling, ultra-complex, encyclopedic epic in him. Perhaps a contemporary one?

[Duncan]

Benny and Jamaul,

I read in a few reviews that "inherent vice" is a naval term. Is that made explicit in the book? The reason I ask is that I'm about a quarter of the way through The Recognitions now, and the phrase has come up at least 10 times in reference to insurance on paintings, along with other metaphorical implications. Different paints acting as solvents on one another, degrading the painting over time. Considering Gaddis is an apparent influence on Pynchon, I was just wondering if that made any sense at all in the context of Pynchon's new novel.

[D_Davis]

My friend, Karl Jensen, just self-published his new novella. Check it out if you're into giving up and coming artists a try.

http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/until-only-the-breathing/7592836

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs188.snc1/6320_102562143088954_100000055 061433_72316_3641569_n.jpg


He's been writing and self-publishing prose and poetry for over 15 years, and this is the first book he's releasing under his new imprint. He'll also be publishing stuff for other authors, so if you have something written you may want to contact him.

[Ezee E]

Reading J.D. Salinger's "Nine Stories"

[Hugh_Grant]

While it's not a literary tome, Stephan Pastis's latest Pearls Before Swine treasury, Pearls Sells Out, is freakin' hilarious.

[Mara]

I love-- LOVE-- reading comic book treasuries. I probably own 40 or so of a dozen different strips. It's what I read just before I go to bed. They're perfect, I can put them down at any time, I've read them before, they're familiar and comforting.

[Hugh_Grant]

I own three of the four Pearls Before Swine treasuries. Pastis's commentary cracks me up almost as much as the strips. Especially funny is the way he tackles his critics, from the censorship of his syndicate to complaints from readers.

[Ezee E]

Salinger's short Uncle Wiggily in Connecticut is brilliant. Loved that.

[lovejuice]

The main character, The Divinity Student, dies. His body is taken, cut open, and stuffed with the pages of books. He is then brought back to life to become a word finder; he is sent on a quest to discover new words, and to fill in his ledger with his discoveries. During this quest he learns to use alchemy to bring others back from the dead and to journey into their minds to discover new words. He's chased by driverless cars, befriends a strange butcher, and discovers worlds beyond the imagination.
see, from what you are describing here, i don't get the surreal vibe at all. (it sounds interesting still, and i might check it out.) for one, "worlds beyond the imagination" sounds more belong to the fantasy genre than surreal.

i have been contemplating this question for a while; what is and what is not surreal novel. in fact, is it possible to write a surreal novel? is surreality more a visual than textual experience. surreal painting is a dime a dozen, while surreal literature much more sparse. too bad one can't take the work of its father, andre breton, as a measuring stick since nadja, at least, pretty much sucks.


Reading J.D. Salinger's "Nine Stories"

love it. My favorite is the laughing man.

[Melville]

i have been contemplating this question for a while; what is and what is not surreal novel. in fact, is it possible to write a surreal novel? is surreality more a visual than textual experience. surreal painting is a dime a dozen, while surreal literature much more sparse. too bad one can't take the work of its father, andre breton, as a measuring stick since nadja, at least, pretty much sucks.
Nadja is great. It's wonderfully dreamlike, mysterious, and spontaneous. Interestingly, the founders of surrealism originally thought that visual arts weren't well suited to their surrealist goals. Although that now seems like an obviously silly standpoint, I can see where they were coming from: automatic writing does seem to spring more immediately and spontaneously from the subconscious mind onto the finished page than a painting springs onto the canvas, since so much more time must be put into "crafting" the painting (that may not be true now, since craft is no longer essential in the fine arts, but it was true at the time).

[Milky Joe]

in fact, is it possible to write a surreal novel? is surreality more a visual than textual experience. surreal painting is a dime a dozen, while surreal literature much more sparse. too bad one can't take the work of its father, andre breton, as a measuring stick since nadja, at least, pretty much sucks.

Yes. See Flann O'Brien - The Third Policeman

[lovejuice]

Nadja is great. It's wonderfully dreamlike, mysterious, and spontaneous. Interestingly, the founders of surrealism originally thought that visual arts weren't well suited to their surrealist goals. Although that now seems like an obviously silly standpoint, I can see where they were coming from: automatic writing does seem to spring more immediately and spontaneously from the subconscious mind onto the finished page than a painting springs onto the canvas, since so much more time must be put into "crafting" the painting (that may not be true now, since craft is no longer essential in the fine arts, but it was true at the time).
do you think spontaneity is that important to surreality? i can see one takes a freudian route and argue that the aim of a surrealist is to capture images from the unconscious. (therefore, spontaneity is the key.) at the same time, there sure is a difference between a dreamlike and a surreal art. unlike dream, surreality needs some internal, apparent logic. it should stands right between the logical reality and the nonsensical dreamworld.

[Benny Profane]

Benny and Jamaul,

I read in a few reviews that "inherent vice" is a naval term. Is that made explicit in the book? The reason I ask is that I'm about a quarter of the way through The Recognitions now, and the phrase has come up at least 10 times in reference to insurance on paintings, along with other metaphorical implications. Different paints acting as solvents on one another, degrading the painting over time. Considering Gaddis is an apparent influence on Pynchon, I was just wondering if that made any sense at all in the context of Pynchon's new novel.

It is not made explicit, though it certainly is possible, given his naval background. I don't claim to catch every reference in a Pynchon novel (that would be impossible) so I could have just missed it. I think the phrase "inherent vice" was only said once, possibly twice in the novel. I do recall it being said in JR, towards the end of the novel, which raised an eyebrow. By the way, jamaul, I agree with your review.

[Melville]

do you think spontaneity is that important to surreality? i can see one takes a freudian route and argue that the aim of a surrealist is to capture images from the unconscious. (therefore, spontaneity is the key.) at the same time, there sure is a difference between a dreamlike and a surreal art. unlike dream, surreality needs some internal, apparent logic. it should stands right between the logical reality and the nonsensical dreamworld.
I think that you're thinking of surrealism in a different way than its founders did. Here's Breton's definition of surrealism, from The Surrealist Manifesto:

Pure psychic automatism by which it is intended to express, either verbally or in writing, the true function of thought. Thought dictated in the absence of all control exerted by reason, and outside all aesthetic or moral preoccupations.
Also,

Surrealism is based on the belief in the superior reality of certain forms of association heretofore neglected, in the omnipotence of the dream, and in the disinterested play of thought. It leads to the permanent destruction of all other psychic mechanisms and to its substitution for them in the solution of the principal problems of life.
So, yeah, I think that spontaneity and dreamlike qualities are essential. Although a lot of visual surrealism (e.g. Dali's paintings, which seem to me to be basically just kitschy manipulations of symbols, striving for oddness rather than Bretonian surrealism), bears little resemblance to that definition or those goals, so maybe Breton's views aren't really apt anymore.

[D_Davis]

I completely failed to convey the dream-like qualities of The Divinity Student in my description above. It's like a dream a dream would have. That is why I think it is surreal.

[Benny Profane]

I'm trying to think of the most surreal novel I've read and all I come back to is The Master and Margarita.

[Eleven]

inherent vice

Hidden defect (or the very nature) of a good or property which of itself is the cause of (or contributes to) its deterioration, damage, or wastage. Such characteristics or defects make the item an unacceptable risk to a carrier or insurer. If the characteristic or defect is not visible, and if the carrier or the insurer has not been warned of it, neither of them may be liable for any claim arising solely out of the inherent vice.


-- Online Business Dictionary (http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/inherent-vice.html)

.

[lovejuice]

I think that you're thinking of surrealism in a different way than its founders did. Here's Breton's definition of surrealism, from The Surrealist Manifesto:

So, yeah, I think that spontaneity and dreamlike qualities are essential. Although a lot of visual surrealism (e.g. Dali's paintings, which seem to me to be basically just kitschy manipulations of symbols, striving for oddness rather than Bretonian surrealism), bears little resemblance to that definition or those goals, so maybe Breton's views aren't really apt anymore.
indeed. Might have been my own misconception on what the word actually means. Dali and Magritte are the first names that come up to me when surrealism is mentioned. Breton's definition sounds more Pollock to me.

[Melville]

indeed. Might have been my own misconception on what the word actually means. Dali and Magritte are the first names that come up to me when surrealism is mentioned. Breton's definition sounds more Pollock to me.
Yeah, I think that Pollock's method of painting is closest to the method that would be required for Breton's idea of surrealism. It's immediate and spontaneous. But on the other hand, what he accomplishes with his method is obviously not surreal, since his paintings are abstractions that don't express anything—or at least they don't express the true functioning of thought.

Though I really like Magritte, I actually prefer the kind of surrealism that Breton was going for. Magritte's paintings are interesting conceptually, but they seem entirely conceptual. They gain all their power (emotional, intellectual, or visceral) from powerful juxtapositions that undermine our ideas about everyday reality, but the force of the juxtapositions is predicated upon our conceptual understandings: e.g., when Magritte writes "this is not a pipe" under a picture of a pipe, the effect it has is based on our conception of representation. It's interesting and effective, but I prefer Breton's direct, spontaneous, a-conceptual exploration of the mind. Not that Nadja was a masterpiece or anything, but I like the general approach.

On a mostly unrelated note, you know who had mad skills? Picasso. It's hard to believe that he painted this when he was 14:
http://www.join2day.net/abc/P/picasso/picasso172.JPG

EDIT: I just noticed the image isn't showing up for me. In case that's true for anyone else, here it is in context: http://www.abcgallery.com/P/picasso/picasso172.html. There's lots of other good Picasso paintings on the page as well.

[lovejuice]

On a mostly unrelated note, you know who had mad skills? Picasso. It's hard to believe that he painted this when he was 14.
picasso is so gifted i want to kick his nut. he's one of those geniuses who really know how to create a masterpiece with minimum effort.

[Melville]

picasso is so gifted i want to kick his nut.
:lol:

Did you ever read his one-page comic strip? I know some snobby people consider it the best comic ever made. Here it is with an accompanying quote from Picasso:
http://librairie-loliee.blogspot.com/2008/07/picassos-comic-book.html

[Dukefrukem]

Finished Cemetery Dance over the weekend. (finally) It's one of their (Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child) weaker books but I enjoyed the ending and the explanations.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Franny and Zooey was amazing. Catcher in the Rye level amazing. And to top it off, I decided to move right into Nine Stories, and imagine my surprise when Seymour Glass is the subject of the first story, which was devastating. Salinger is brilliant. What a shame.

[Ezee E]

Franny and Zooey was amazing. Catcher in the Rye level amazing. And to top it off, I decided to move right into Nine Stories, and imagine my surprise when Seymour Glass is the subject of the first story, which was devastating. Salinger is brilliant. What a shame.
Indeed. I'm also reading Nine Stories and was disappointed when I saw his small volume of books. Just wait until you get to some of the other stories.

[ledfloyd]

there are rumors, i think from his daughter, that he has a bunch of manuscripts sitting around waiting to be published in the event of his death.

[Kurosawa Fan]

there are rumors, i think from his daughter, that he has a bunch of manuscripts sitting around waiting to be published in the event of his death.

That would be incredible, I just hope they aren't published against his wishes.

[Ezee E]

That would be incredible, I just hope they aren't published against his wishes.
Why wouldn't he have published them otherwise?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Why wouldn't he have published them otherwise?

Because he's Salinger. Read up on him. The man's a bit bizarre.

[Qrazy]

picasso is so gifted i want to kick his nut. he's one of those geniuses who really know how to create a masterpiece with minimum effort.

Have you seen The Mystery of Picasso? Great film and showcases what you're talking about wonderfully.

[Mara]

Franny and Zooey was amazing. Catcher in the Rye level amazing. And to top it off, I decided to move right into Nine Stories, and imagine my surprise when Seymour Glass is the subject of the first story, which was devastating. Salinger is brilliant. What a shame.

So, in other words, you haven't carefully perused my "short stories you should read" thread. Humph.

But, yeah, Nine Stories is incredible.

[Kurosawa Fan]

So, in other words, you haven't carefully perused my "short stories you should read" thread. Humph.

But, yeah, Nine Stories is incredible.

No, I did. But at the time that I read your entry, I hadn't read Franny and Zooey and didn't remember your mention of Seymour Glass. I'll have you know, I have several of the short stories you've mentioned downloaded and ready to read.

[ledfloyd]

That would be incredible, I just hope they aren't published against his wishes.
here is where i read that:


While he was living with Maynard, Salinger continued to write in a disciplined fashion, a few hours every morning. According to Maynard, by 1972 he had completed two new novels.[76][77] In a rare 1974 interview with The New York Times, he explained: "There is a marvelous peace in not publishing.… I like to write. I love to write. But I write just for myself and my own pleasure."[78] According to Maynard, he saw publication as "a damned interruption".[79] In her memoir, Margaret Salinger describes the detailed filing system her father had for his unpublished manuscripts: "A red mark meant, if I die before I finish my work, publish this 'as is,' blue meant publish but edit first, and so on."[80]

Margaret is his daughter and Maynard is a girl he was in a relationship with.

[Benny Profane]

So I am almost finished with A Good Man is Hard to Find and Other Stories by O'Connor. Is all the praise mostly for the titular story, or for the collection as a whole?

[Mara]

No, I did. But at the time that I read your entry, I hadn't read Franny and Zooey and didn't remember your mention of Seymour Glass. I'll have you know, I have several of the short stories you've mentioned downloaded and ready to read.

You're a good man.

[Mara]

So I am almost finished with A Good Man is Hard to Find and Other Stories by O'Connor. Is all the praise mostly for the titular story, or for the collection as a whole?

I haven't read the entire collection, but A Good Man is Hard to Find is my favorite of hers I've read. That said, even though other stories by her haven't been as memorable, I've never read one I didn't like.

[Benny Profane]

I haven't read the entire collection, but A Good Man is Hard to Find is my favorite of hers I've read. That said, even though other stories by her haven't been as memorable, I've never read one I didn't like.

The lead story is actually one of my least favorite of the collection, maybe my expectations were too high.

[Mara]

The lead story is actually one of my least favorite of the collection, maybe my expectations were too high.

I'm extremely surprised by that.

A quick look shows that my second favorite story by O'Connor, "Revelation," isn't in that collection at all.

[Benny Profane]

I'm extremely surprised by that.

A quick look shows that my second favorite story by O'Connor, "Revelation," isn't in that collection at all.

It was good until they got to the Misfit. I found that whole sequence to be rather ridiculous and I did not feel any of the impact I was supposed to feel.

[ledfloyd]

It was good until they got to the Misfit. I found that whole sequence to be rather ridiculous and I did not feel any of the impact I was supposed to feel.
buh buh but that's the best part!

[Mara]

buh buh but that's the best part!

Er, yes.

[Kurosawa Fan]

It was good until they got to the Misfit. I found that whole sequence to be rather ridiculous and I did not feel any of the impact I was supposed to feel.

I'm floored. You're the first.

[dreamdead]

Rereading Stephen Crane's Maggie: A Girl of the Streets for a grad class on U.S. Literature on the Urban City. There's times when I get a bit disinterested in Crane's efforts to convincingly portray ethnic pronunciation, but the man's prose always wins me back over. That sense of alienated people from the city slums seeking some kind of connection, even if it's a destructive connection, always seems to resonate with me.

[Rowland]

I decided to finally read Dennis Lehane's Kenzie/Gennaro series, despite being disappointed by his gimmicky, utterly predictable Shutter Island (still can't believe Scorsese is directing it), and while the first three books haven't lived up to my expectations in light of Affleck's amazing adaptation of the fourth novel, Gone Baby Gone, they have nevertheless proven to be compulsively readable. They are never terribly convincing, certainly less grounded in reality than the film, but if you accept Lehane's over-dependence on deus ex machinas and sordid sensationalism, the books are certainly entertaining enough, and steeped in sociopolitical awareness and some of the moral ambiguity that rendered Gone Baby Gone so compelling. Now to read the book of the latter, see how it compares...

[Winston*]

Moved on from American Tabloid to The Cold Six Thousand. Ellroy's made some pretty silly stylistic choices in this one like how keeps drawing out words for effect: "looooooow", "slooooow" etc. Makes it read like The Big Bopper. I think after I finish this I will read a novel where almost all the characters aren't vile and racist.

[ledfloyd]

Moved on from American Tabloid to The Cold Six Thousand. Ellroy's made some pretty silly stylistic choices in this one like how keeps drawing out words for effect: "looooooow", "slooooow" etc. Makes it read like The Big Bopper. I think after I finish this I will read a novel where almost all the characters aren't vile and racist.
i've only read white jazz by ellroy, i loved it though, i want to read more.

[Winston*]

i've only read white jazz by ellroy, i loved it though, i want to read more.
I've only read American Tabloid and The Black Dahlia. Both definitely recommended. I'll probably read most of his stuff eventually.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Only story I haven't cared for in Nine Stories thus far (I'm through the first five) is "Just Before the War With the Eskimos". The rest have ranged from great to utterly amazing. I'll probably come in here and arbitrarily rank them after I finish. Because that sounds like something I'd do.

[Mara]

I've only read The Black Dahlia by Ellroy and I absolutely could not stand it. Not really my deal, I guess.

[kuehnepips]

Match-cut, when do you read?



Always.

[Ezee E]

Only story I haven't cared for in Nine Stories thus far (I'm through the first five) is "Just Before the War With the Eskimos". The rest have ranged from great to utterly amazing. I'll probably come in here and arbitrarily rank them after I finish. Because that sounds like something I'd do.
Agreed thus far. I even read the Eskimos story twice, thinking I missed something, but it just seems like a story that needs to be longer.

[lovejuice]

favorite

the laughing man

love

a perfect day for bananafish
uncle wiggily in connecticut
pretty mouth and green my eyes (seriously, what's an awesome title!)

like

just before the war with eskimos
down at the dinghy
da daumier-smith's blue period

don't care for

for esme -- with love and squalor

dislike/hate

teddy

[Benny Profane]

I finished the O'Connor collection this morning. The last story, The Displaced Person, is so overwhelmingly awesome and topped off a very strong collection of stories. I stand by my opinion that A Good Man is Hard to Find is on the lower end in terms of character development, impact, and overall quality. I implore anyone who has read it to also read The Displaced Person and tell me which is better. As a whole, I thought the book was incredible though.

Now reading The Bonfire of the Vanities, my first Wolfe, and the fifth or sixth book over 600 pages I'll have read this year. I never used to read more than one.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I finished the O'Connor collection this morning. The last story, The Displaced Person, is so overwhelmingly awesome and topped off a very strong collection of stories. I stand by my opinion that A Good Man is Hard to Find is on the lower end in terms of character development, impact, and overall quality. I implore anyone who has read it to also read The Displaced Person and tell me which is better. As a whole, I thought the book was incredible though.

Now reading The Bonfire of the Vanities, my first Wolfe, and the fifth or sixth book over 600 pages I'll have read this year. I never used to read more than one.

I'll seek out the O'Connor. I'm pretty sure my dad has a Folio Society novel with all of her published work.

As for 600 page novels, The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, being the next book I read, will be my fifth. I used to fear the length of a book as well. In fact, there was a time when I wouldn't even attempt anything over 500 pages. It's been to my great benefit that I've changed that policy.

[Mara]

Davis and a few other people have expressed leeriness about the length of books. I love long books. I get extremely annoyed if a book is over too fast.

[ledfloyd]

i have no prejudices towards book length. long or short is fine with me. as long as it suits the story.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Davis and a few other people have expressed leeriness about the length of books. I love long books. I get extremely annoyed if a book is over too fast.

I'm in complete agreement nowadays. I love a good, long book.

[Mysterious Dude]

Long books take too long to read. I want to read more books. I only read two in the whole month of August. I only have a short amount of time on the world. Tolstoy can wait until I'm old.

[Mara]

Long books take too long to read. I want to read more books. I only read two in the whole month of August. I only have a short amount of time on the world. Tolstoy can wait until I'm old.

This is what I don't understand. What does quantity have to do with anything? If you read an hour of a good book every night, what does it matter if you end up reading a thousand books or three?

[Benny Profane]

Yeah, I don't understand the whole quantity over quality argument either. But I guess with books, you don't know how good the quality will be until you actually try it, and since it's a lot more time consuming than most other activities, a book's length can be rather intimidating.

If the last 630 pages of The Bonfire of the Vanities is as good as the first 36, this is going to be marvelous.

[Mara]

I think it might have something to do with the idea of completeness, of being "well-read." I've heard the same argument used against re-reading books, which I simply love to do. If I like a book, I read it at least twice. If I love a book, I will reread it a dozen times without tiring. I find rereading a beloved book to be one of the most satisfactory and enjoyable experiences in my life.

I have a similar blind spot in film. I'll rewatch films that I enjoy ad nauseam. People on this site say things like, "I really need to bulk up on Korean films from the 70's." That urge, whatever it is, to complete an encyclopedia-like reference library of film or books is baffling to me. I just don't have it. I could only imagine doing it for a specific purpose, like if I was writing a book or teaching a course on Korean films films from the 70's.

That said, if I enjoy a writer/filmmaker I might go on a "run" of their books or films. I've read every novel by every Bronte because I liked them all. I do consider myself "well-read" but it's more by accident than design.

[Qrazy]

This is what I don't understand. What does quantity have to do with anything? If you read an hour of a good book every night, what does it matter if you end up reading a thousand books or three?

Well if you're reading more books you're experiencing a greater range of artistic perspectives. You're also missing some great perspectives which can only be found in longer books, but you are experiencing more artists. I don't have any aversion to length in books or movies but sometimes I'm in a mood where I just want to read/watch something with a shorter time commitment.

[lovejuice]

i tend to rate books and movies by how many pages and minutes i would like to edit out. so you can say, i prefer shorter to longer piece. although i have zero urge to cut a single sentence or paragraph from really awesome novels no matter how long they are.

[Mara]

My dad sent me a link to this site, which is nothing but strange books: http://www.abebooks.com/books/weird/index.shtml?cm_mmc=nl-_-nl-_-g00-weirdbX-_-link2

[Mysterious Dude]

This is what I don't understand. What does quantity have to do with anything? If you read an hour of a good book every night, what does it matter if you end up reading a thousand books or three?
I have a long list of books I'd like to read. How am I going to read the books I want to read if I don't read them?


I have a similar blind spot in film. I'll rewatch films that I enjoy ad nauseam. People on this site say things like, "I really need to bulk up on Korean films from the 70's." That urge, whatever it is, to complete an encyclopedia-like reference library of film or books is baffling to me. I just don't have it. I could only imagine doing it for a specific purpose, like if I was writing a book or teaching a course on Korean films films from the 70's.I consider reading and watching movies to be, to a certain degree, education, and not just entertainment. I want to learn about a wide variety of different topics and cultures and people. I want to see Korean films from every decade in which films were made in Korea!

There have been so many books written by so many different people since man invented writing that I can't imagine limiting myself to just a few writers. I want to read them all.

[Mara]

Different ideologies. I certainly don't think any one is more or less valid... the important thing is that we're all readers.

[ledfloyd]

a library without the books (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/09/04/a_library_without_the_books/?s_campaign=yahoo)

this is the worst idea i've ever heard of.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished Nine Stories this afternoon. My arbitrary rankings:

1. The Laughing Man
2. Uncle Wiggily in Connecticut
3. A Perfect Day for Bananafish
4. Down at the Dinghy
5. For Esme - With Love and Squalor
6. Pretty Mouth and Green My Eyes
7. Teddy
8. Just Before the War With the Eskimos
9. De Daumier-Smith's Blue Period

Everything from seven up were good, with the top four being great. The bottom two were blah.

Now on to The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I want to learn about a wide variety of different topics and cultures and people. I want to see Korean films from every decade in which films were made in Korea!

I want it all, Marge! The terrifying highs and the dizzying lows!

[Kurosawa Fan]

I've read 300 pages of Dragon Tattoo in 24 hours. Weird thing is I can see myself not liking it. It's compulsively readable, but already there was one turn of events that was just ridiculous and unnecessary, and for some reason I'm getting a bad vibe concerning the ending. I have a strong feeling that it's going to be a big disappointment.

[Dead & Messed Up]

So I realized this weekend that I (a) don't have time to read when I get home, but (b) I'm driving around a lot for work. So I picked up some audio books. I'm starting off with Jack London's The Sea Wolf.

Good so far. It's basically a long sequence of alternating bursts of machismo and grand philosophizing, all very blunt. But Wolf Larsen is a towering, intimidating presence. London's clearly playing to his strength by devoting his narrative so completely to Larsen's wild swagger.

After this, Slaughterhouse Five and, finally, Dante's Divine Comedy.

[EvilShoe]

Read Fight Club. The movie's actually better! That doesn't happen often.
Still liked this a lot. Palahniuk's stuff reads rather easily.

Also finished The Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury. Wonderful collection of short stories, some of them perfect for The Twilight Zone.
Favorite had to be the hilarious The Silent Towns, in which a lonely man is in desperate need of a woman.

[kuehnepips]

Tolstoy can wait until I'm old.

Nonsense.

[Mara]

I've read 300 pages of Dragon Tattoo in 24 hours. Weird thing is I can see myself not liking it. It's compulsively readable, but already there was one turn of events that was just ridiculous and unnecessary, and for some reason I'm getting a bad vibe concerning the ending. I have a strong feeling that it's going to be a big disappointment.

Which one? Because I bet you can guess what really pissed me off. I have a few hot buttons.

And not to taint the pot, but it was the last quarter of the book that really annoyed me.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Which one? Because I bet you can guess what really pissed me off. I have a few hot buttons.

And not to taint the pot, but it was the last quarter of the book that really annoyed me.

The guardian/rapist. Unbelievably ridiculous. I can understand why you hated it. The women are terribly conceived. Larsson seems to think that sexually progressive is equal to evolved and intelligent. At this point I'm really only intrigued by the mystery. I won't be reading the sequel.

[Benny Profane]

Nonsense.

Truly. This is nonsense.

Also, there is The Death of Ivan Ilyich, which is about 100 pages, and is one of the best novellas ever written.

[Mara]

The guardian/rapist. Unbelievably ridiculous. I can understand why you hated it. The women are terribly conceived. Larsson seems to think that sexually progressive is equal to evolved and intelligent. At this point I'm really only intrigued by the mystery. I won't be reading the sequel.

Yeah, I had a huge problem with that. The thinking process seemed to be:

Being raped is worth a chance to have revenge. What. the. hell? One of the least believable thought processes I've ever seen from a character who is supposed to be intelligent.

[lovejuice]

speaking of short stories, been reading Jeffrey Archer's To Cut a Long Story Short, and they are pretty bad, just like most Archer's. The funny thing is with Archer comparing himself to O Henry and his neverending claim to the art of story telling, it's actually his narrative that's weakest. you get a sense that the stories are quite fun, but somehow they don't read as fun as they should have been. the narrative is in fact so bad that i consider his stories good case studies.

[ledfloyd]

Yeah, I had a huge problem with that. The thinking process seemed to be:

Being raped is worth a chance to have revenge. What. the. hell? One of the least believable thought processes I've ever seen from a character who is supposed to be intelligent.

well, i won't be reading this book.

[Mara]

well, i won't be reading this book.

It's unfathomable.

The second main character, a woman, is raped by what in the US we'd call a social worker-- someone from the government who is supposed to take care of her. In order to have revenge on him, she lets him rape her again, and torture her, so that she can go through some strange process of tattooing some demeaning thing on his body, and I think some other stuff. I can't remember. I was completely disgusted.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Well, I already finished it, in part because I wanted to get it over and move on, and in part because I was interested in discovering the solution. Alas, it was totally predictable. That was my first guess while reading. Lame to the nth degree. I can't say I hated it because the mystery kept me intrigued and I finished a 644 page book in three days, but it wasn't very good, that's for sure.

Not sure what I'll read next. I don't work tomorrow, so I'll have plenty of time in the morning to scour through my bookshelves.

[Kurosawa Fan]

After not much deliberation at all, I'm going with Straight Man by Richard Russo as my next read.

[Ezee E]

Haven't decided what I'll read next. I was thinking about the Del Toro book or perhaps something by Hemingway. We'll see what I feel like when I get to the library.

[EvilShoe]

I started John Irving's A Widow for One Year.
Pretty good so far (150 pages in), but not nearly as good as the other Irving I read. Then again, that one was The World According to Garp.

Arp!

[Benny Profane]

The World According to Garp.



Having read this, there are certain things I will not do in a car, or have done to me. Ouch.

[Mysterious Dude]

I just finished One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I think the movie was a pretty good adaptation. Most of the dialogue is different, but all the same things happen.

It's pretty sad that I have already seen the movies based on a lot of great books I have not yet read:

Gulliver's Travels
Tom Jones
Dangerous Liaisons
The Last of the Mohicans
The Hunchback of Notre Dame
The Count of Monte Cristo
The Three Musketeers
Vanity Fair
Jane Eyre
Wuthering Heights
Great Expectations
David Copperfield
A Tale of Two Cities
Moby Dick
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
Little Women
Anna Karenina
Treasure Island
The Picture of Dorian Gray
The Age of Innocence
All Quiet on the Western Front
Animal Farm
Gone With the Wind
The Grapes of Wrath
Rebecca
The Lord of the Rings
Fahrenheit 451
Doctor Zhivago
The Tin Drum
Catch-22
Dune
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
The Color Purple
The Unbearable Lightness of Being

[Derek]

Franny and Zooey was amazing. Catcher in the Rye level amazing. And to top it off, I decided to move right into Nine Stories, and imagine my surprise when Seymour Glass is the subject of the first story, which was devastating. Salinger is brilliant. What a shame.

Awesome. F & Z is one of my all-time favorites - my cat's name was Bloomberg. :)

If you haven't read Seymour: An Introduction and Raise High the Roofbeam Carpenters, do so immediately!

[Kurosawa Fan]

Awesome. F & Z is one of my all-time favorites - my cat's name was Bloomberg. :)

If you haven't read Seymour: An Introduction and Raise High the Roofbeam Carpenters, do so immediately!

Just bought it a week or so ago, but I'm going to take a Salinger break for a while. I'll get to it by the end of the year though.

[thefourthwall]

After not much deliberation at all, I'm going with Straight Man by Richard Russo as my next read.

And you won't regret it. A very fun read, whose absurdity is completely believable.

[monolith94]

I just finished One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I think the movie was a pretty good adaptation. Most of the dialogue is different, but all the same things happen.

It's pretty sad that I have already seen the movies based on a lot of great books I have not yet read:

Gulliver's Travels
Tom Jones
Dangerous Liaisons
The Last of the Mohicans
The Hunchback of Notre Dame
The Count of Monte Cristo
The Three Musketeers
Vanity Fair
Jane Eyre
Wuthering Heights
Great Expectations
David Copperfield
A Tale of Two Cities
Moby Dick
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
Little Women
Anna Karenina
Treasure Island
The Picture of Dorian Gray
The Age of Innocence
All Quiet on the Western Front
Animal Farm
Gone With the Wind
The Grapes of Wrath
Rebecca
The Lord of the Rings
Fahrenheit 451
Doctor Zhivago
The Tin Drum
Catch-22
Dune
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
The Color Purple
The Unbearable Lightness of Being

Of those, I've read:

Gulliver's Travels
Tom Jones -- FTW!
Jane Eyre
Great Expectations
A Tale of Two Cities -- a middling Dickens
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
Treasure Island -- Pirates FTW!
Animal Farm -- skippable
The Lord of the Rings
Fahrenheit 451

[Grouchy]

Of those, I've read:

Gulliver's Travels
The Hunchback of Notre Dame
The Count of Monte Cristo
The Three Musketeers
David Copperfield
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
Anna Karenina
Treasure Island
The Picture of Dorian Gray
Animal Farm
The Lord of the Rings
Dune
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

They're all incredible books in their own ways, frankly. Alice in Wonderland, Lord of the Rings, Treasure Island and Fear and Loathing are personal favorites and I've read them more than once.

[Mara]

Okay. Of those, I've read:

Gulliver's Travels: Eh.
Tom Jones: A personal favorite. Love.
Dangerous Liaisons: Eh.
The Last of the Mohicans: Super eh. Not worth it. Fenimore's prose is like being punished.
The Hunchback of Notre Dame: Good.
The Count of Monte Cristo: Bleh. Not a fan of Dumas, really.
The Three Musketeers: See above.
Vanity Fair: Pretty good.
Jane Eyre: Excellent. A favorite.
Wuthering Heights: I have mixed feelings on this. Love/hate.
Great Expectations: Pretty Good.
A Tale of Two Cities: Pretty Good.
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland: Excellent.
Little Women: Pretty Good.
Treasure Island: Pretty Good.
The Picture of Dorian Gray: A brilliant book with some fatal flaws. Absolutely worth reading.
The Age of Innocence: A favorite.
Animal Farm: Essential.
Gone With the Wind: Eh.
Rebecca: An excellent, easy read.
The Lord of the Rings: Good books with some serious flaws.
Fahrenheit 451: Good.
Catch-22: I insist you read this immediately.
Dune: Pretty good.
The Color Purple: Pretty good.

[Ezee E]

Decided to reread The Road. I don't reread much, but this one is worth it.

[Eleven]

Child of God is gonna be my first McCarthy. It sounds like a laugh-a-minute.

[ledfloyd]

i began rereading The Mysteries of Pittsburgh because i saw the horrible film adaptation that doesn't deserve to be mentioned last night. through 100 pages and glad to see the film didn't exaggerate the books flaws but hid it's strengths. by combining two characters and turning one into a caricature of the typical whining annoying overprotective girlfriend he completely destroyed the books dynamic. grr.

[Mysterious Dude]

Although I found the prose interesting, I didn't like Blood Meridian all that much. It was just death on every page.

I'm still interested in The Road, though. I suppose I should get to it before the movie comes out.

[Duncan]

I finished The Recognitions a couple days ago. It's another great book from Gaddis. It's hard to give anything resembling a plot summary since there are so many characters, but basically it's about a painter who becomes an art forger trying to "redeem the absurdity of existence" and reach some sort of transcendent truth in shapes and the very essence of things...or something...it's complicated. It's a kind of retelling of Faust (which is apparently a retelling of the Clementine Recognitions), with the Mephistopheles character being a man named Recktall Brown (I know), but it's also a riff on the Orphic myth. Going down into the hell of falsity that is New York City, 1955. I could go on and on about the influences on this book, because it seems to draw from every source imaginable, quoting left right and centre, throwing idea after idea out there. In a lot of ways, it actually resembles the early Flemish paintings that Wyatt forges, Bosch's triptychs with their different realms, many, many characters, bizarre imagery, sense of humour, and changing perspectives. There's one chapter (prefaced by this quote from The Origin of Species: "We will now discuss in a little more detail the struggle for existence.") in which he has at least 25 characters with distinct personalities interacting and speaking over each other. It's like nothing I've ever read before. It reminded me of that scene in Amadeus where Mozart is trying to make the Emperor guess how many characters he can keep going at once and for how long. It's the same sort of conspicuous genius. If I have complaints, they're pretty minor. Some of the satire of psychoanalysis and modern art is pretty tired by now. Probably would have been less obvious in 1955 though. I have to admit that towards the end (when character names start changing rapidly or are just dropped altogether) I had some troubling figuring out just what happened, and I think it's meant to be ambiguous as to who is even in the room at any given time. The parts that aren't dialogue are, as was suggested by the many reviews trashing this book upon its initial release, perhaps overwritten. We are meant to take the authorial voice as Profound, and it's a little much at times. But then again, I sort of feel like the Emperor saying, "Too many notes!" I think I would call this book a tragedy, in the same way that Faust is a tragedy. A lot of sadness, great heights of indulgence, death, and something like redemption. Some of it is just outright depressing in its indictment of American life. I mean really, really awful. But it's also often funny, and the work itself as a piece of art that actually exists out there is uplifting.

[Winston*]

Finished The Cold Six Thousand. Like 1300 pages of Ellroy in a row. Phew. I think I'm going to start posting like Ellroy

Dig The Wackness:
Schlub graduates. Schlub deals grass. Schlub angsts. Schlub fucks dreamgirl. Schlub BLOWS it. Schlub catches in the rye.
Kingsley looks straggly. Kingsley chews scenery. Kingsley does drugs. Kingsley does Olsen Twin. Kingsley learns life lessons.
Winston* watches. Winston* mehs. Winston* posts. Winston* kills a colored whore in New Mexico.

[ledfloyd]

i picked up "sunnyside" by glen david gold at the library on a complete whim. i saw it on the 'new' shelf and decided a novel starring charlie chaplin was too good to pass up. also, recalled hearing good things about his first book 'carter beats the devil'.

[Amnesiac]

Has anyone here read Conrad's Nostromo?

[Benny Profane]

Has anyone here read Conrad's Nostromo?

Yeah it's great.

[Duncan]

I read DeLillo's White Noise. It was pretty good, not great. It's kind of funny, but it's ideas are fairly standard stuff, I thought. Overwhelming information, fear of death, simulacra. That's an oversimplification, but I don't think anything here lives up to its reputation. The characters are sort of cute, Babette is a genuinely sympathetic person, and I liked Murray and his ideas for his car crash seminar at the college. So, yeah, I enjoyed reading it, and maybe I'm missing something, but I was a little disappointed.

[lovejuice]

I read DeLillo's White Noise. It was pretty good, not great. It's kind of funny, but it's ideas are fairly standard stuff, I thought. Overwhelming information, fear of death, simulacra. That's an oversimplification, but I don't think anything here lives up to its reputation.
couldn't agree with you more. i too feel the book might have been relevant once, but now incredibly dated. delillo rarely provides us with any new or interesting comment. in retrospective, the novel "doesn't quite apply" either. he seems too overcautious on the post-modern world and its overwhelming information, which turn out, 25 years afterward, to be not so bad as all that.

reading my own post, i probably like it much much less than you do. in fact the book has driven me away from delillo's ever since.

[Milky Joe]

he seems too overcautious on the post-modern world and its overwhelming information, which turn out, 25 years afterward, to be not so bad as all that.

speak for yourself!

[Benny Profane]

I read DeLillo's White Noise. It was pretty good, not great. It's kind of funny, but it's ideas are fairly standard stuff, I thought. Overwhelming information, fear of death, simulacra. That's an oversimplification, but I don't think anything here lives up to its reputation. The characters are sort of cute, Babette is a genuinely sympathetic person, and I liked Murray and his ideas for his car crash seminar at the college. So, yeah, I enjoyed reading it, and maybe I'm missing something, but I was a little disappointed.

What did you think of the denouement? That's what really sunk it for me.

[Amnesiac]

Yeah it's great.

When did the book start to pick up for you? I'm nearing the end of the first part.

[lovejuice]

speak for yourself!
i'm going to assume that, since you are constantly on internet, to some degree you too embrace our over-informative age.

[Benny Profane]

When did the book start to pick up for you? I'm nearing the end of the first part.

Gee, I don't remember since I read it about 13 years ago, but I do remember the first part being kinda slow. But I love Conrad's writing so even the slow parts weren't difficult to wade through.

[Milky Joe]

i'm going to assume that, since you are constantly on internet, to some degree you too embrace our over-informative age.

Well, barring whether or not I am constantly on it because I embrace it or because I'm outright addicted to it, I'm not kidding myself about the psychic consequences of it.

Duncan should read Underworld.

[Duncan]

What did you think of the denouement? That's what really sunk it for me.
I thought the tricycle thing was a pretty melodramatic metaphor that went nowhere. The grocery store part seemed like a natural extension of the rest of the book. Often I found the book was just sort of there. It wasn't that gripping, but the pages kept turning and occasionally I'd smile at some joke. I felt the same way about the denouement, so it didn't really lower the book in my eyes.

Duncan should read Underworld.
Isn't that one like really long? I'm not jumping through hoops to read something else by DeLillo, and when I do, I think it'll be something pretty short. Too many other long books I want to get to first.

[ledfloyd]

underworld was wayyy better than white noise. it's really something.

[Milky Joe]

Isn't that one like really long? I'm not jumping through hoops to read something else by DeLillo, and when I do, I think it'll be something pretty short. Too many other long books I want to get to first.

Sure it's long, but it reads pretty quick, and it's really, really good. If you do want to read something shorter though, I'd recommend Libra or one of his first three novels. Don't just dismiss the guy because you found White Noise slight. That thing about the best writers being famous for their worst books is pretty true in the case of WN.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I finished The Sea Wolf yesterday. Pretty good. The story follows this liberal arts schmuck named Humphrey van Weyden who gets stuck on a ship called the Ghost with a captain called Wolf Larsen. Wolf's a fantastic character, vibrant and alive. He's a barbarian, but a well-read one, and his view of life is simultaneously bleak (he doesn't believe in souls or God) and liberating (he believes in living in the moment). Those opinions come out in protracted dialogues that should be dull but prove consistently enjoyable.

The book takes a downward turn when the narrator, Humphrey, stumbles onto a lady named Maude who he instantly falls in love with and feels the urge to protect. Their relationship feels assumed and unexamined. He loves her because it is necessary that he falls in love. Their story doesn't get interesting until it turns into one of simple survival. But even then, it's sap-tacular, and it robs the narrative of its best conceit - Wolf Larsen.

Overall, I think I prefer The Call of the Wild and White Fang, which I remember as more straightfoward, focused stories. But even then, those two lag behind his amazing To Build a Fire, which remains one of the most haunting short stories I've read.

Note: I listened to the audio version by Dick Hill, and I recommend it. His voice is well-suited, especially to the Wolf himself.

Next up for me is Slaughterhouse Five, which I haven't read/heard before.

[Benny Profane]

Audio books are fun, especially on long rides, but then I think about all the stuff that's edited out, and I feel like I'm not getting anywhere close to the full experience. The two books I've listened to on tape I went and read.

[Mara]

Well, you have to get the unabridged ones.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Audio books are fun, especially on long rides, but then I think about all the stuff that's edited out, and I feel like I'm not getting anywhere close to the full experience. The two books I've listened to on tape I went and read.

Oh, I only get unabridged. Abridged versions are abominations.

[Benny Profane]

Oh, I only get unabridged. Abridged versions are abominations.

How long does it take to get through a 300 page book?

[Mara]

How long does it take to get through a 300 page book?

Maybe 20 hours? I'm estimating.

[Malickfan]

Yo, Kurosawa...you're a big fan of Jess Walter's The Zero. Looks like he has a new one out. Good review as well.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/books/17maslin.html?_r=1&ref=books

[Kurosawa Fan]

Yo, Kurosawa...you're a big fan of Jess Walter's The Zero. Looks like he has a new one out. Good review as well.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/books/17maslin.html?_r=1&ref=books

Fantastic news. What's really weird is that just yesterday I decided to buy one or two of his other books the next time I'm at B&N because of how much I loved The Zero. Looks like this will be one of the ones I purchase.

[Dead & Messed Up]

How long does it take to get through a 300 page book?

Less than ten hours, most likely. Sea Wolf and Be Cool are both under ten discs long, and their paperback sizes are around that long.

[dreamdead]

Read Pietro Di Donato's Christ in Concrete, an Italian-American text from 1939 about the immigrant experience as Italians struggle amid the hardships of bricklaying and building the urban metropolis of NYC. He avoids some of the depression by largely situating the tale in the 1920s, but there remains an unmistakable sense of urging toward socialism or some other economic system where the worker is not so exploited. At times, Di Donato introduces narrative elements and just drops them outright, so that we're never sure what significance an individual moment contains, but when he documents the cityscape and the friendship of the Italians at work bricklaying, he achieves a hypnotic formal rhythm all his own. It's an interesting novel for those who like socially conscious Modernist texts.

[lovejuice]

100 pages into moby dick. it's wonderful. the book manages to be all thought-provoking, exiting and funny.

reading it reminds me of my english teacher who comments that melville wrote this novel as if he googled the words, "great white whale," and played around with whatever information comes up.

[ledfloyd]

100 pages into moby dick. it's wonderful. the book manages to be all thought-provoking, exiting and funny.

reading it reminds me of my english teacher who comments that melville wrote this novel as if he googled the words, "great white whale," and played around with whatever information comes up.
it's such a great book.