The Book Discussion Thread

[Kurosawa Fan]

Do you suppose someone-- anyone-- is about to upload Essays on a science of mythology: The myth of the Divine Child and the divine maiden by Carl Jung? I've been looking for that for years.

It's possible. Not likely, but possible. I've been using my GoodReads list and copying it over to BookMooch. The two I mentioned previously are the only two that were already in inventory, but I love that it will notify you the minute someone posts a book in your wishlist.

[Benny Profane]

Um... what books do I want? The browsing feature isn't very good; you pretty much have to search by title. What should I buy?


Who else thinks Mara and Bukowski are perfect for each other?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Who else thinks Mara and Bukowski are perfect for each other?

:lol:

Seriously though. Worst. Recommendation. Ever.

[Mara]

I have googled him.

I shall not feign interest.

[Mara]

Okay, I've always written off "The Master and the Margarita" as being the favorite book of people I don't like, given a strange pattern that keeps repeating in my life. Is my prejudice misplaced? Is it good?

[Mara]

Really, though, it's part of my larger prejudice, which is that I can't stand to read books that are translations.

[Mara]

Especially books translated from Russian.

I really think I'm going to have to learn Russian before I can enjoy all those books that everyone else seems to love so much.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Okay, I've always written off "The Master and the Margarita" as being the favorite book of people I don't like, given a strange pattern that keeps repeating in my life. Is my prejudice misplaced? Is it good?

I know Spinal loves it, and I'm pretty sure Benny liked it too. There are a couple fans of it on this site.

[Mara]

I know Spinal loves it, and I'm pretty sure Benny liked it too. There are a couple fans of it on this site.

Good enough for me.

Don't let me down, bookmooch! (No copies available. I shall wishlist it.)

[Mara]

WHOOHOO! Amazon finally delivered Pride & Prejudice & Zombies and it should be waiting for me at home.

My evening just got booked solid.

[EvilShoe]

I grabbed Tortilla Flat by Steinbeck and Into Thin Air by Krakauer. If this works, I'm officially in love with this site.
If I had known earlier that you're a book fan, I'd have told you about this ages ago.

[Winston*]

I know Spinal loves it, and I'm pretty sure Benny liked it too. There are a couple fans of it on this site.

I liked it too. And so did Mick Jagger, not sure if that's a recommendation or not.

[Benny Profane]

Especially books translated from Russian.



But those are the best ones!

To your earlier question, The Master and Margarita is fantastic. I'd say a top 20 book for me, easily.

[Mara]

But those are the best ones!

To your earlier question, The Master and Margarita is fantastic. I'd say a top 20 book for me, easily.

For some reason, I have trouble reading anything translated, because something about the prose strikes me as stilted and unnatural. (I think it's worse with Russian than with Germanic and Latin languages, because they share common syntaxes with English.) Whenever I try to read translations, something feels off to me.

Doesn't bother me with films, though.

[Kurosawa Fan]

If I had known earlier that you're a book fan, I'd have told you about this ages ago.

God I hate you.

[Mara]

If anyone wants to add me as a friend on bookmooch (I don't know if and how it would help, but...)

My username is MightBeNatalie.

[lovejuice]

Okay, I've always written off "The Master and the Margarita" as being the favorite book of people I don't like, given a strange pattern that keeps repeating in my life. Is my prejudice misplaced? Is it good?

i like The Master and the Margarita. although i think it's a hundred page too long. can't remember much about it though, to be honest.

[Mysterious Dude]

I seem to be reading nothing but translations, lately. I read a German book (Death in Venice), an Italian book (Zeno's Conscience), two French books (Cheri and Nausea, as yet unfinished) and I've got a Japanese book on hold for me at the library (Confessions of a Mask). I like to spread the love.

[megladon8]

I do sometimes wish I was one of those virtuosos who can learn an entire language in a week so I can read books and watch films in their original language.

[ledfloyd]

My evening just got booked solid.
i laughed.

[Mara]

Uploaded 30 books to bookmooch and had 11 requests immediately. (Off to the post office today, I guess.)

Also read about 3/4 of P&P&Z. I think I'll hold off on thoughts until I finish.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Uploaded 30 books to bookmooch and had 11 requests immediately. (Off to the post office today, I guess.)

Also read about 3/4 of P&P&Z. I think I'll hold off on thoughts until I finish.

I'm very tempted to mooch Atonement from you.

[Mara]

I'm very tempted to mooch Atonement from you.

Have you read it? Because I found it extremely disappointing.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Have you read it? Because I found it extremely disappointing.

Yep. Loved it. I recognize some of its flaws, but I'll admit to being totally swept away by the story, and I found Briony to be one of the more fascinating characters I've read.

[Mara]

Yep. Loved it. I recognize some of its flaws, but I'll admit to being totally swept away by the story, and I found Briony to be one of the more fascinating characters I've read.

I thought the first part was taut and fascinating, but it fell apart for me after The Event. It's like the story fractured and never found itself again.

Didn't really like the film, either.

[Ezee E]

:(

2666 has been requested by someone at the original library it came from. I'll have to bring it back on Saturday unfinished.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I thought the first part was taut and fascinating, but it fell apart for me after The Event. It's like the story fractured and never found itself again.

Didn't really like the film, either.

The film was disappointing. Still liked it though.

So I mooched it from you. I couldn't resist having Mara's Atonement in my collection. Val will be excited too.

[Kurosawa Fan]

:(

2666 has been requested by someone at the original library it came from. I'll have to bring it back on Saturday unfinished.

Go buy it.

[Mara]

So I mooched it from you. I couldn't resist having Mara's Atonement in my collection. Val will be excited too.

I'm not going to sign it. Stop begging.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'm not going to sign it. Stop begging.

A personal note would be icing on the cake. I AM begging.

[Mara]

I'm not sure I've salted enough crazy into my recent posts, so I'm going to talk about owning multiple copies of books.

Not only do I own multiple copies of books, but while culling a few boxes of my collection last night, I found that I couldn't part with any of the multiples.

Sometimes my reasons made sense.

SELF: Well, I have two copies of Evelina. I guess I could-- no. This old, beat-up one has all my notes in the margins, while the pretty shiny one is better annotated. I need them both.

Sometimes... not so much.

SELF: I have two copies of An American Tragedy. That's such a fantastic novel. I should read it again. I wonder if anyone has wishlisted it?

I check bookmooch, and as far as I can tell, nobody has ever requested or sent the book, ever.

SELF: Self, I am flabbergasted. THOSE JERKS. They don't deserve my additional copy of An American Tragedy. SCREW THEM.

[Mara]

So I mooched it from you. I couldn't resist having Mara's Atonement in my collection. Val will be excited too.

Mailed! I sent all the books the cheapest possible way (media mail) and so I'll be interested to see how long it takes.

I hope people don't generally spend much on postage. I hate being the cheap one.

[Hugh_Grant]

:(

2666 has been requested by someone at the original library it came from. I'll have to bring it back on Saturday unfinished.

I just picked up my copy from the local library. It's quite large! Fortunately, my semester is just about over, so I should have enough time in the next three weeks to read it.

And this thread has reminded me that I still have my colleague's copy of The Master and Margarita. I brought it with me to the Caribbean, but found it wasn't the best choice for a beach read. (The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency fit that bill just fine.)

[Kurosawa Fan]

Skimmed through the last 100 pages of World War Z. Never got any better. Blech.

Now reading The Neverending Story by Ende.

[Mara]

My short-term memory has betrayed me.

I just now-- not an hour ago-- perused the bookshelves at the store while buying some envelopes, and there was a book I was going to check on amazon and bookmooch to see if it's any good.

And now I can't remember the name.

It had a taupe cover with a black ink drawing of a balloon (passenger balloon) and the back said it was a steampunk book. Some plot about dead orphans.

HELP!

[Mara]

When I type things like "steampunk dead orphans" into google, I always worry that some day I'm going to be accused of a crime and they're going to search my computer for incriminating things.

[Kurosawa Fan]

The Affinity Bridge?

[Mara]

The Affinity Bridge?

No... but that looks vaguely awesome.

[Kurosawa Fan]

How about The Court of the Air by Stephen Hunt?

[Mara]

How about The Court of the Air by Stephen Hunt?

That's it! Way to out-google me, sir.

[Kurosawa Fan]

That's it! Way to out-google me, sir.

Glad I could help. :)

[Mara]

Oh! I forgot to give my thoughts on Pride & Prejudice & Zombies.

I have to say that I really enjoyed it. Grahame-Smith has a number of interesting things he does with the plot. The way it was described to me-- as being P&P verbatim, with zombie scenes added in-- isn't exactly accurate. His variations took several forms:

*He used and abridged the original work. In my opinion, the weakest part of the book were his abridgements. They weren't huge, but as I reader I was keenly aware when he was "summing up" as opposed to laying out the story as Austen wrote it.

*He added ultraviolent zombie mayhem. This worked exactly as you would expect.

*In order to add the ultraviolent zombie mayhem, Grahame-Smith had to change the entire outlook and moral culture of the book. He did this with a surprising amount of skill and humor. Women of that age were supposed to be "accomplished," i.e. know how to paint and speak French and play the piano. Theoretically, it is understandable that if England was in a war with the undead, the "deadly arts" would become something that women would be expected to learn. Instead of being sent to Paris to learn how to embroider, they are sent to Japan and China to learn how to rip the still-beating heart out of a ninja. And eat it. (No joke, Lizzie does that in the book.)

*He's a funny guy, that Seth, and one of the things that he does regularly in the novel is to raise the subtext to... well... text. For me, this was the most laugh-out-loud part of the entire book. To hear Mrs. Bennet say aloud exactly what single women should expect out of life, or have Mr. Bennet explain exactly what he wishes would happen to his wife, is gobs of fun.

*He added bodily function jokes. Yawn. The women in the book are always raving about going to balls. Well, did you know that balls can also mean testicles!!??!! Humor.

For the most part, Grahame-Smith did an excellent job understanding the nature of the characters. Lydia is perfectly and absolutely Lydia, whether she is flirting with an officer, or forming the Pentagram of Death. I mean, if Lady Catherine De Burgh in the original novel had had an army of highly skilled ninjas, wouldn't she have sent them after Lizzie? Of course she would.

The author seems to align fighting skills with pre-existing intelligence and moxie instead of whether or not we like the character, so while Lady De Burgh and Darcy are both skilled warriors, Charlotte Lucas and Bingley are not. It works, with the exception of Mary, who makes absolutely no sense as a character in the new book. I'm not sure he knew what to do about her.

The book does have some weaknesses in style and execution. Sometimes I felt like I could hear the author thinking that we hadn't had a zombie battle in awhile. Sometimes the transitions were jarring and stretched.

Still, overall, I would recommend it for a light, fun read. It is really, truly funny. I laughed and laughed. I also learned a great way to set a trap for a zombie. I'll give you a hint: it involved cauliflower.

[lovejuice]

this weekend is LA festival of book. i'm very excited. there will be panels in which mediocre authors make appearances and discuss stuffs. what never fails to amaze me is that how intelligent all those middle-tier writers can be. last year i attended a discussion by four or five female writers whose work i was quite familiar with so i knew they were not that good. and the way they talked about post-modernism, structuralism, psychoanalysis, semiotic, was very impressive.

[number8]

Free books, anybody?
(http://manybooks.net/)

[Kurosawa Fan]

Free books, anybody?
(http://manybooks.net/)

I'll definitely be using this when I finally cave and buy a Kindle. Thanks for the link.

[number8]

For anybody with an iPod/iPhone, download the book reading application Stanza. You can use it to browse that site and download the books there directly for reading.

[Duncan]

Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird
by Wallace Stevens

I
Among twenty snowy mountains,
The only moving thing
Was the eye of the blackbird.

II
I was of three minds,
Like a tree
In which there are three blackbirds.

III
The blackbird whirled in the autumn winds.
It was a small part of the pantomime.

IV
A man and a woman
Are one.
A man and a woman and a blackbird
Are one.

V
I do not know which to prefer,
The beauty of inflections
Or the beauty of innuendoes,
The blackbird whistling
Or just after.

VI
Icicles filled the long window
With barbaric glass.
The shadow of the blackbird
Crossed it, to and fro.
The mood
Traced in the shadow
An indecipherable cause.

VII
O thin men of Haddam,
Why do you imagine golden birds?
Do you not see how the blackbird
Walks around the feet
Of the women about you?

VIII
I know noble accents
And lucid, inescapable rhythms;
But I know, too,
That the blackbird is involved
In what I know.

IX
When the blackbird flew out of sight,
It marked the edge
Of one of many circles.

X
At the sight of blackbirds
Flying in a green light,
Even the bawds of euphony
Would cry out sharply.

XI
He rode over Connecticut
In a glass coach.
Once, a fear pierced him,
In that he mistook
The shadow of his equipage
For blackbirds.

XII
The river is moving.
The blackbird must be flying.

XIII
It was evening all afternoon.
It was snowing
And it was going to snow.
The blackbird sat
In the cedar-limbs.

[Hugh_Grant]

Love that Stevens poem. My students, however, hated it with the heat of a thousand suns. :)

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'm loving The Neverending Story. So much different than the film. I'm 160 pages into a 400 page book, and already everything from the movie (almost, anyway) has already happened. I have no idea where it's going now. That's exciting.

[Duncan]

I finished The Yiddish Policemen's Union last night. I wasn't exactly wowed. The whole conspiracy plot got way out of control. It was always better when focusing on the smaller character interactions. Too many intermingling traumatic pasts. It all rang false. And too many twists and turns. I know it's a mystery novel, but jeez. I've heard his others are better. It just happened to be the one featured in a book store and I hadn't read anything by him so I picked it up. I really like Wonder Boys the movie, so maybe I'm not done with him. But I'm certainly not going to be going out of my way to read more.

[thefourthwall]

So bookmooch looks pretty amazing...any guarantee on the quality of book though? I'm a crazy annotator and hate almost everyone else's marginalia.

Also, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies looks amazing and like it will be a welcome addition to my pop culture adaptations of canonical works class.

[Mara]

So bookmooch looks pretty amazing...any guarantee on the quality of book though? I'm a crazy annotator and hate almost everyone else's marginalia.

There's a part where you can put the condition of the book, although I think most people aren't too picky. You might put a special note on your file that you don't like notes in the margin.


Also, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies looks amazing and like it will be a welcome addition to my pop culture adaptations of canonical works class.

It's a pretty fun time.

[Mara]

Apparently, Ayn Rand is having a resurgence in popularity.

I find Ayn Rand incredibly annoying.

[D_Davis]

I'm loving The Neverending Story. So much different than the film. I'm 160 pages into a 400 page book, and already everything from the movie (almost, anyway) has already happened. I have no idea where it's going now. That's exciting.

It's a great book.

Do you have a version with the different colored text?

[EvilShoe]

So bookmooch looks pretty amazing...any guarantee on the quality of book though? I'm a crazy annotator and hate almost everyone else's marginalia.

I've mooched 12 books in total and so far none of them had notes in the margin.
One book did have some passages underlined, but that was mentioned in the condition section.

[EvilShoe]

Apparently, Ayn Rand is having a resurgence in popularity.

I find Ayn Rand incredibly annoying.
I can't imagine I'll ever check her work out.
Every time someone brings her or Atlas Shrugged up, it's in a negative manner.

[Kurosawa Fan]

It's a great book.

Do you have a version with the different colored text?

Yep. I have less than a hundred pages left. I'll post comments when I finish.

[Benny Profane]

Apparently, Ayn Rand is having a resurgence in popularity.

I find Ayn Rand incredibly annoying.


Collectivist.

[Mara]

Collectivist.

Am not.

*googles term*

...Am so, apparently.

[Benny Profane]

Book of the month club. Whose turn is it?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Received two of the books I mooched from BookMooch, both in immaculate condition. One was accompanied by an original artwork by our very own Mara, which my wife and I are considering having framed.

Either way, I came on to say that BookMooch rules. I've shipped out nine books I didn't like at all, and received three in exchange, and still have credit for seven more.

[Mara]

Received two of the books I mooched from BookMooch, both in immaculate condition. One was accompanied by an original artwork by our very own Mara, which my wife and I are considering having framed.

Good. I spent, like, seven hours on it.

And I haven't gotten any books I requested yet, but they should be on the way. I'm considering uploading a few more tonight, because I enjoy having credit. It makes me feel rich.

[thefourthwall]

Hmm...finding books to get rid of for bookmooch is trickier than I thought. And I'm afraid of what people will think of me if I fill my inventory with my grandmother's old romance novels...

[Mara]

Hmm...finding books to get rid of for bookmooch is trickier than I thought. And I'm afraid of what people will think of me if I fill my inventory with my grandmother's old romance novels...

I got really worried about what I was putting up and asking for, but then decided to deliberately not care. If I wanted a specific, classic work I would probably go out and buy it. I'm using bookmooch as an opportunity to pick up things I wouldn't normally read. If I don't like them, I'll put them back up again.

And I'm going to trade some of my grandmother's old books, too.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished The Neverending Story last night. Good stuff. The first half is considerably stronger than the second, and I can see why they ended the film when they did. I thought the rebuilding of Fantastica was a bit sluggish at times, but once AURYN started to have an effect on Bastian, it picked back up. Some great messages in there for kids, about working to change yourself instead of taking the easy way out and hoping change will happen magically.

Started reading Florence of Arabia by Christopher Buckley. Very promising start.

[Benny Profane]

I have to read another Buckley, as I loved Little Green Men. Let me know how that one goes.

[D_Davis]

Apparently, Ayn Rand is having a resurgence in popularity.

I find Ayn Rand incredibly annoying.

There will always be impressionable 20 year old college students.

[lovejuice]

Book of the month club. Whose turn is it?
we kinda drop that last year due to lack of participation. if you still want to go on, i can revive that.


There will always be impressionable 20 year old college students.
i actually like aye rand. she's an extremist, and like many extremists, most of the time her thought is slightly ga-ga, but it only takes an extremist to see thing an average joe overlooks.

[Benny Profane]

A brief cut from Atlas Shrugged:

"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion – when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing – when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors – when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you – when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice – you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that it does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot."


Rand grants god-like powers to her main characters, but they always derive these powers from man's ability to reason, apply that reason to the world, and reap the benefits. She separated the producers from the parasites, though she does so with a fairly heavy hand.

It's just the opposite of writers like Steinbeck who grant god-like powers to characters of a different political will.

I enjoy both.

[Mara]

It's just the opposite of writers like Steinbeck who grant god-like powers to characters of a different political will.

Huh. I'd never thought about that.

[number8]

Does bookmooch carry comics?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Does bookmooch carry comics?

Looks like they carry graphic novels, but not individual comics. Seems they carry just about anything that someone wants to get rid of.

[EyesWideOpen]

Looks like they carry graphic novels, but not individual comics. Seems they carry just about anything that someone wants to get rid of.


I just browsed through the site and they do have individual comics listed.

[monolith94]

Finished The Neverending Story last night. Good stuff. The first half is considerably stronger than the second, and I can see why they ended the film when they did. I thought the rebuilding of Fantastica was a bit sluggish at times, but once AURYN started to have an effect on Bastian, it picked back up. Some great messages in there for kids, about working to change yourself instead of taking the easy way out and hoping change will happen magically.

Started reading Florence of Arabia by Christopher Buckley. Very promising start.
I actually preferred the second half. I felt that the setting's were tantalizing, and the drama, with its psychological tinge, was more sophisticated. Plus, the lion of the desert = awesomesauce.

What the second movie did to Xayide... I cannot forgive.

[Lucky]

I just finished the memoir portion of Man's Search for Meaning and I'm really looking forward to getting into Part II where Frankl discusses logotherapy. My GRE psych guide alluded to it and ever since then I've been interested in reading about it.

I finished Narcissus and Goldmund weeks ago but forgot to say thanks to whoever hyped that up around these parts. Someone's opinion pushed me to pick that up, and I enjoyed it. Perfectly fit the psychological study mood I've been in recently.

I'm also almost finished with The Plague. The novel lost some of its steam as it goes on, but I'm looking forward to seeing how things wrap up.

[lovejuice]

the building blocks for people of the book are fine. i only wish it were better written. in fact i wish it were much much better written. brooks's style is heavily influenced by movies and sitcoms. the jokes are lame, dialogues uninspired, characters straight from the shelves, and romance forced.

i'm only one sixth through though, so it might imprive. i plan on finishing this since as said, there is a great book hidden somewhere here.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I finished Florence of Arabia today. A very fast, funny satire about American politics (or should I say meddling) in the Middle East. Not only is it funny, but it's also tense and dramatic, and was impossible to put down. Wrapped up a bit too nicely, especially considering the subject, and some of the pokes and jabs were a bit too easy along the way, but it's hard to hold it against such a compulsively readable book. Really looking forward to reading more Buckley.

[Benny Profane]

When I picked up Retail Anarchy I thought I was getting a book by a brilliant, subversive consumer who would have an interesting slant on assembly-line produced garbage and lousy customer service in America. What I got instead were meandering anecdotes by an immature, pompous, and shitty writer. The few moments of insight were quickly balanced by pointless tales of how he filled up his car with soy sauce and only paid $2 for it. Way to beat the system!

Interesting topic, poorly handled.

[Benny Profane]

Now reading Closing Time, which is a memoir by Joe Queenan.

[ledfloyd]

i finished only revolutions. i enjoyed it. not as affecting as house of leaves but the construction is kind of awe-inspiring.

diving into more auster with oracle night. i'm addicted. i'll get back to gravity's rainbow soon enough.

[lovejuice]

i change my mind about finishing people of the book. a foundation as strong as seven rome's put together cannot hold such a drivel. brooks writes in a style that i really can't stand. (the best of such is by michael chabon, and the worse is dan brown. neil gaiman is in between.) it's a style that, imo, is heavily influenced by movies than books.

when she stereotypically describes MIT nerds, i realize this book and i are not going to have a good time together. (i graduated from a tech school. i sure as fuck know what a nerd looks like.) then there is sitcom bickering between a successful single mom and her strong-headed daughter. i am ready now to mooch the book away.

[Sycophant]

Now that I have BSG out of the way, I'm going to try to read more. Gonna dive back into No god but God.

Also, I now have the most recent post in ever single subforum. Yes!

[lovejuice]

Gonna dive back into No god but God.
the book is very good. although it deals mostly with ancient islamic history, and almost nothing at all about recent conflict. in case, that's what you're looking for.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I started reading Tortilla Flat by Steinbeck last night.

[EvilShoe]

I started About a Boy (needed some light reading after Kafka's The Castle). It's fun stuff, but so far nearly identical to the movie.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I started About a Boy (needed some light reading after Kafka's The Castle). It's fun stuff, but so far nearly identical to the movie.

It's pretty close, but the slight differences are what made it a better book than film (though I love the film as well).

[EvilShoe]

It's pretty close, but the slight differences are what made it a better book than film (though I love the film as well).
I've heard the biggest differences occur in the third act.
(Something about Nirvana? Don't tell me though, as I'm still reading.)

It's a good film, yes. Hugh Grant was perfect casting, surprisingly.

[Hugh_Grant]

I've heard the biggest differences occur in the third act.
(Something about Nirvana? Don't tell me though, as I'm still reading.)

It's a good film, yes. Hugh Grant was perfect casting, surprisingly.

Yes, the third act is where book and movie diverge. When you're done, we can compare notes. ;)

[Ezee E]

I'll get back to 2666 again, and probably start over with Book 3 which seemed like many snippets of stories, but all worth reading.

Now I'm reading The Last Men Out. We'll see if books about firefighters are as crappy as the movies about firefighters. I'm hoping not, but the prologue does the same thing that the movies are responsible for.

[D_Davis]

The Kindle DX (http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-DX-Amazons-Wireless-Generation/dp/B0015TCML0/ref=amb_link_84277971_2?pf_rd_ m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=gateway-center-column&pf_rd_r=01TA6DQG2W6TFYGWVMZ0&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=476842251&pf_rd_i=507846)

Too big?

Too Expensive?

[lovejuice]

plundering through one fifth of this side of paradise, and unless anyone comes in here and insists, i probably leave it at that. the book reads more like a distant cousin of, not the great gatsby, but brideshead revisited.

this first book's as one might expects: a semi-autobiography of a guy who later on wrote the great gatsby. i just 've never like autobiography. (or princeton. that school rejected me twice!)

[jesse]

plundering through one fifth of this side of paradise, and unless anyone comes in here and insists, i probably leave it at that. the book reads more like a distant cousin of, not the great gatsby, but brideshead revisited. I'm actually revisiting it right now--it was one of my favorites in early college. I've actually been curiously indifferent to the first quarter, but if I'm remembering correctly, it becomes more resonant as it goes along and Amory matures and becomes less irritating. The ending was the most transcendent I had ever experienced at that time.

That said, even at the time I most loved it I don't know if I'd had argued it's essential reading...

[lovejuice]

thank. i'm now in the middle of naipaul's "guerilla." 'll perhaps revisit it again later on.

[Benny Profane]

Started JR.

Um, does this book have no chapters?

[Duncan]

Started JR.

Um, does this book have no chapters?

No chapters. The scenes can change really quick on you. It's also almost 99% dialogue, and he never explicitly tells you who's speaking. Sometimes a whole week will go by from one line of dialogue to the next, and you won't figure it out until halfway through the page. It's great. If you're looking for points to put the book down, you'll get pretty good at judging when he's about to move on to something totally unrelated, so you won't have to stop mid-conversation.

[EvilShoe]

Benny reading a book called Closing Time, reminds me of the sequel to Catch-22 (which carries the same title).

Has anyone read that one? It sounds like a really bad idea. Catch-22 is one of my favs, too.

[D_Davis]

If anyone is interested in getting into the short fiction of J.G. Ballard, there is a complete collection (1200+ pages) being published soon.

You can pre-order it at Amazon. (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Stories-J-G-Ballard/dp/0393072622/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242147982&sr=1-2)

He's my favorite short story author, and totally worthy of your time.

[lovejuice]

starting the inheritance of loss today. it has potential. i really wish i could like it. finally there's a modern, female, indian voice i can relate too. (sorry roy, sorry lahiri.)

[thefourthwall]

If anyone is interested in getting into the short fiction of J.G. Ballard, there is a complete collection (1200+ pages) being published soon.

You can pre-order it at Amazon. (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Stories-J-G-Ballard/dp/0393072622/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242147982&sr=1-2)

He's my favorite short story author, and totally worthy of your time.

I really need to finish my dissertation chapter on him; he's about to be literary criticism gold.

[trotchky]

Pygmy (which I finished today) is more thematically solid than most of Palahniuk's recent output, but the trade-off is that it's turgid and barely readable. He switches up his prose style for the first time in his career, but he does so by writing in a thirteen-year-old's broken English. Oh, Palahniuk!

[lovejuice]

half way through the book and unless a fuck up of epic proportion happen, i will definitely like the inheritance of loss more than the god of small things which read like a poor man's, indian tony morrison's whom i'm not even a big fan of to begin with.

[Hugh_Grant]

I'm still working on 2666, but in the meantime, I've read two other books, Edwidge Danticat's excellent memoir, Brother, I'm Dying and the Steven Galloway's pedestrian The Cellist of Sarajevo.

[Benny Profane]

Steven Galloway's pedestrian The Cellist of Sarajevo.

Jeez, the title itself makes me hate it without even reading it.

[Hugh_Grant]

Jeez, the title itself makes me hate it without even reading it.
The book's titular inspiration is Vedran Smajlović, whose act during the Siege of Sarajevo is truly remarkable. What I found most pedestrian was Galloway's prose. Not a bad book, but I couldn't help but feel it could have been much better.

[Malickfan]

Pygmy (which I finished today) is more thematically solid than most of Palahniuk's recent output, but the trade-off is that it's turgid and barely readable. He switches up his prose style for the first time in his career, but he does so by writing in a thirteen-year-old's broken English. Oh, Palahniuk!

Yeah, I refuse to read it due to the prose.

[Skitch]

Finished Chuck Palahniuk's Rant. It was really interesting. Anyone else read it?

Started on his next one Snuff. Picked up his new one Pygmy. Can't wait to tear into that one, but need to finish Snuff first.

[Benny Profane]

J R is definitely a challenge, but I'm loving it so far. Half the time I have no idea what the hell Gaddis is talking about, especially when he's in one of his funky little transitions, or he's describing the movement of a character's body, or nature. But I'm convinced you're not really supposed to get it entirely, just go with the flow.

[Derek]

So, should I read JR or Gravity's Rainbow next? Decide for me.

[Benny Profane]

I am loving J R. Love love loving it.

[Benny Profane]

So, should I read JR or Gravity's Rainbow next? Decide for me.

Flip a coin. Either way, you win.

[Duncan]

Yeah, ultimately I think I prefer Gravity's Rainbow, but I think you're good either way. J R, despite being started in the 50's and released in the mid 70's, is pretty relevant to current economic times, so maybe that's a reason to choose it over Gravity's Rainbow.

I bought The Recognitions (also by Gaddis) recently, but don't plan on reading it for awhile. I want to put a bit of a gap between it and J R.

[Duncan]

I've been reading a lot lately, but really picking and choosing parts of books to read, not really finishing much.

I found this book of 8 short novels in my mom's library. So far I have read:

Notes From Underground (Dostoevsky) - This was a very quick reread. The last paragraph of this is one of my favourite things written.

The Death of Ivan Illych (Tolstoy) - Liked this better than Anna Karenina, probably because it was shorter. Still a lot of the boring critique of upper class Russians though.

A Simple Heart (Flaubert) - This one was amazing. It's about a sort of saintly housekeeper who starts praying to a stuffed parrot in her old age. Highly recommended. I must read Madame Bovary.

The Pupil (James) - Meh.

The Secret Sharer (Conrad) - A highly ambiguous work. Both adventure and metaphysics lesson. Liked it a lot.

The Metamorphosis (Kafka) - Don't know why I haven't read this already. I found it profoundly disturbing. Like, it was almost hard to finish.

I also read No Country for Old Men. It was much better than the movie. I thought it addressed most of my problems with the Coens' script. Even just a few scenes that the Coens cut really hurt the film, imo.

Also read parts of Kierkegaard's Either/Or. Kierkegaard is awesome.

Am about halfway through The Gift by Lewis Hyde. The first half is an anthropological study of gift based societies. The second half (which I am looking forward to reading) is about the artist in a capitalist society.

Also started Eugene Onegin by Pushkin. Liking it so far.

[MacGuffin]

The Metamorphosis (Kafka) - Don't know why I haven't read this already. I found it profoundly disturbing. Like, it was almost hard to finish.


I am reading this too right now, and agree, it's very strange.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished Tortilla Flat. Amazing Steinbeck. In fact, up there with my favorites of his. I was so impressed, I decided to read another of his, The Pearl, before moving on to another author.

[Hugh_Grant]

I was a German major in college, so I read my fair share of Kafka. As much as I love The Metamorphosis, I had to stop teaching it a few years back because I have never assigned something that was so widely hated.

Reading about "A Simple Heart" made me think about Julian Barnes' sublime Flaubert's Parrot.

[Duncan]

I was a German major in college, so I read my fair share of Kafka. As much as I love The Metamorphosis, I had to stop teaching it a few years back because I have never assigned something that was so widely hated.

Reading about "A Simple Heart" made me think about Julian Barnes' sublime Flaubert's Parrot.

I don't know if it was clear from my post above, but I really loved The Metamorphosis. "Profoundly disturbing" can sometimes translate to that with me.

I will look into this Julian Barnes fellow. I don't know him at all.

[Spaceman Spiff]

The Metamorphosis[/B] (Kafka) - Don't know why I haven't read this already. I found it profoundly disturbing. Like, it was almost hard to finish.

Can't believe you've never read this. It's utterly your thing. Read more Kafka.

[Spaceman Spiff]

In any case,

I really dug Utopia. Found it unexpectedly funny. I agree with a lot of his ideas, but I'd be a bit curious as to its implementations under the modern political sphere.

Reading Fear and Trembling now. I wish I understood more Hegel (or maybe read more philosophy). I find the little I grasp quite interesting, but the prose difficult.

[Duncan]

Can't believe you've never read this. It's utterly your thing. Read more Kafka.

Yeah, it was one of a number of books that I'm sure I would like, but I know a lot about (ie. the whole plot and general ideas) so I keep putting them off to read other stuff instead. Others included Crime and Punishment and 1984.

Of Kafka's work, I've also read The Trial. Amerika is sitting beside my bed...but there are so many books sitting beside my bed. I want to check out a few other ones first.

[Mara]

Metamorphosis is the literary work I had most often assigned to me in college. I think at least four or five classes asked me to read it.

I like it, and I think the majority of other students liked it, too. Except for the handful of blondes who thought it was gross.

[Benny Profane]

I liked The Trial. Wasn't blown away by it like everyone else seems to be.

[Mara]

I liked The Trial. Wasn't blown away by it like everyone else seems to be.

Have you seen the Orson Welles adaptation?

[Benny Profane]

Have you seen the Orson Welles adaptation?

Nope. Is it pretty faithful?

[Kurosawa Fan]

So... it appears I made a deal with the devil. I've been trying to get my wife to read East of Eden for years, and so I told her recently that if she read it, after she finished I would read a book she wants me to read. Well, she's more than halfway through, calling it one of the best books she's ever read, and will undoubtedly read the entire novel.

The book that she's chosen for me? I'm pretty sure I don't even have to say it.

*weeps*

[Mara]

What what WHAT?

[Mara]

I hope it's Twilight.

Which isn't that bad.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I hope it's Twilight.

Which isn't that bad.

*hangs head in shame*

[D_Davis]

Nothing is worth that.

[Mara]

*hangs head in shame*

Honey, let me tell you something. Histrionic teenage fantasy literature has been around far longer than thou or I. It's awful and fantastic and I devour it like popcorn.

But as far as fantastically awful histrionic teenage fantasty literature, Twilight is the best out there. I totally enjoy it without irony.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Honey, let me tell you something. Histrionic teenage fantasy literature has been around far longer than thou or I. It's awful and fantastic and I devour it like popcorn.

But as far as fantastically awful histrionic teenage fantasty literature, Twilight is the best out there. I totally enjoy it without irony.

I will be honest and fair with my assessment. I have a feeling that I may get caught up in the story, but that I won't enjoy her writing. That's what my gut tells me, because I find that I'm pretty easily lured into a story, even when the writing is poor.

[Mara]

I will be honest and fair with my assessment. I have a feeling that I may get caught up in the story, but that I won't enjoy her writing. That's what my gut tells me, because I find that I'm pretty easily lured into a story, even when the writing is poor.

Her writing improved as the books progressed (and her adult novel, The Host, is head and shoulders over the Twilight series.)

I started typing out my problems with the book, but I think I'll wait until you're done and we can compare notes. Despite the length, it's a very easy read.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Her writing improved as the books progressed (and her adult novel, The Host, is head and shoulders over the Twilight series.)

I started typing out my problems with the book, but I think I'll wait until you're done and we can compare notes. Despite the length, it's a very easy read.

It looks at a glance like half of every page is margins. I can't imagine it taking me very long to read, unless I outright hate it and struggle to pick it up every night.

[EvilShoe]

*hangs head in shame*
Don't go where I can't follow you. :|

[Kurosawa Fan]

Don't go where I can't follow you. :|

Just because you have no shame doesn't mean others don't think you're already there.

[EvilShoe]

Just because you have no shame doesn't mean others don't think you're already there.
Is that an example of Stephenie Meyer's prose?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Is that an example of Stephenie Meyer's prose?

I can only hope.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Yeah, it was one of a number of books that I'm sure I would like, but I know a lot about (ie. the whole plot and general ideas) so I keep putting them off to read other stuff instead. Others included Crime and Punishment and 1984.

Of Kafka's work, I've also read The Trial. Amerika is sitting beside my bed...but there are so many books sitting beside my bed. I want to check out a few other ones first.

Crime and Punishment and 1984 are ridiculously good books as well.

I think I've read nearly everything by Kafka. Even his short stories are excellent. Try to find a copy of The Castle if you can.

[Ezee E]

What was her evil grin like when she told you that you were reading Twilight? hah.

[Kurosawa Fan]

What was her evil grin like when she told you that you were reading Twilight? hah.

Vicious. If you met her, you'd understand.

[Kurosawa Fan]

The Pearl was devastating. Hard to read even, because from the start it's obvious things aren't going to turn out well. It really skewers the American Dream. A bit heavy-handed, but nonetheless effective, and quite emotional too.

*sigh*

Now on to Twilight.

[EvilShoe]

Finished About a Boy. Better ending/third act than the movie had. Much more in line with what preceded it.

Next up: Twili... The Crying of Lot 49.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished Twilight. Moving on to better things. I'll comment more if Mara insists. I'm sure no one else really cares what I thought of it.

[Winston*]

Finished Twilight. Moving on to better things. I'll comment more if Mara insists. I'm sure no one else really cares what I thought of it.

I care, Kurosawa Fan. I care.

[monolith94]

Me too! It's part of the zeitgeist! Would you encourage a daughter of yours to read it? How do you think it handled gender? etc…

[Hugh_Grant]

Me three!

[Mara]

Finished Twilight. Moving on to better things. I'll comment more if Mara insists. I'm sure no one else really cares what I thought of it.

Ha! I would like to hear some sort of response, even if it's short.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Wow. Okay, well, this is all off the top of my head, but here we go. There were things Stephanie Meyer did well. Very well, in fact. She's very strong at creating eroticism. That's definitely her strong suit. I was roped into the romance and the sexual desire from the moment Bella and Edward met. She didn't need to be explicit, didn't resort to shock, she just handled the specifics of their interactions and created a pretty intriguing atmosphere between the two. She also did a very good job creating an accurate portrait of a teenage girl. Bella is confused, shes contradictory, she's kind of a mess emotionally, and that's pretty indicative of any seventeen year old, regardless of gender. I was afraid going in that Bella would just be an extension of Meyer, and would act and think like a 30 year old, but unless Meyer is an immature person, which I doubt, this wasn't the case. Bella is strong at times, vulnerable at others, a bit too quick-witted at times when considering the circumstances surrounding her, but it's a negligible flaw to the character.

Meyer has also crafted a very compelling story, which should be obvious considering I finished the book in one day. The problem is she spins her wheels too often. She gets far too caught up in the romance, and the middle section of the book becomes very redundant. It's way too much "I love you, but I'm dangerous for you. But I can't stay away. But I'm no good for you. But I want you. But I'm putting you in harm's way. But I love you." It became a snooze. After a bit, the major conflict arrives, and it really becomes quite tense. But again, Meyer drops the ball and gives what is definitely one of the single biggest anticlimactic, letdown endings I've ever read. I'm speaking, to those who have read it, of the tracker, and the lack of satisfying resolution to that problem. So, so terribly disappointing.

She also struggles with the peripheral characters. The three other boys at the high school, Mike, Tyler, and Eric, seem to share nothing in common, but all seem to be friends. Same goes for the girls. They have more in common, but seem to be nothing more than high school stereotypes. They're seriously mishandled in favor of as much Bella/Edward drama as she could stuff into the story.

Meyer as a writer is maudlin, and middling at best, downright irritating at worst. She reminds me a lot of J.K. Rowling. She can't lay off the adverbs. "She said sarcastically. He said excitedly. She started sprinting quickly." None of these are real examples, though I'm pretty sure the first two are in there word for word, but they're exactly the kind of writing she resorts to time after time. I understand I'm not her target audience, but her expository descriptions just aren't necessary 99% of the time. My seven-year-old would understand that Bella is lonely in the beginning. Even he would need Meyer to tell him that. But she does. Show don't tell at its worst, because she shows, and then proceeds to tell afterward.

After 200 pages I was ready to come on here and get ripped for not only admitting that I really liked the book, but that I was going to be reading the rest of the series. But the way the book just fell apart, and the downright terrible resolution, left me feeling far too empty and not at all wanting to continue. Especially after reading up a bit on how the second novel starts (which seems downright ridiculous).

As for whether I'd let my daughter read it, not until she was 12 or 13. The eroticism wouldn't sit well with me if my daughter was any younger. There isn't any sex, or really very much mention of it, but there's a lot of desire and touching, and the way she writes those scenes would make me uncomfortable. Would I encourage my daughter to read it? No. There are so many other quality books I'd rather see her pick up. But I wouldn't discourage it, assuming she's old enough by my estimation, if she were interested.

[Mara]

That's a pretty fair assessment, I'd say. I'll respond more when I have a minute.

[thefourthwall]

Meyer as a writer is maudlin, and middling at best, downright irritating at worst. She reminds me a lot of J.K. Rowling.

Meyer reminded me of a watered down Rowling, but in a complimentary way. One of the things I love about Rowling is her intertextuality with Great Literature and adherence to archetypes. I think Meyer wanted to do that and tried, but wasn't nearly as successful; I do give her credit for attempting though, something that ninety percent of teen lit doesn't do.

[Benny Profane]

If there's a funnier literary character than Jack Gibbs, I'd like to know about it.

[Duncan]

If there's a funnier literary character than Jack Gibbs, I'd like to know about it.

Rhoda. Have you gotten to the part where she's talking to Bast about his electric tie rack and "computer for cooking steaks"? That was the funniest scene in the book for me. But, yeah, Gibbs is the man.


Read a couple books:

Saturday (Ian McEwan) - First book I've read by McEwan. I'm ambivalent at best. I didn't like the first hundred pages or so. Henry Perowne just isn't that interesting a character to me. The discussion of pre-Iraq War psychology isn't very insightful. The climactic scene isn't that tense because you can just feel the whole way through that this isn't a tragic novel. The prose is polished for sure, but nothing I would rave about. Since it's the kind of novel where all the action is in one day, there sort of has to be a hell of a lot of detail thrown in, and I don't care that he's taking his socks of now. I also didn't like how Baxter was handled. All the pity heaped on him felt condescending. The book felt like it was written specifically for middle aged people, not wanting their boats rocked too hard. It wasn't exactly boring, but I don't know if I'd recommend it.

The Gift (Hyde) - This, on the other hand, was an excellent book. The first half is an anthropological study of gifts. Hyde looks at the potlach, various folk stories, usury in ancient Israel, and so on. Meanwhile, there is a consistent critique of capitalism. Hmm, it's more interesting than it sounds, and he's a tremendous writer. The second half of the book is spent discussing the artist in terms of the vocabulary he has established in the first half. He does this by examining the lives of Walt Whitman and Ezra Pound. Two completely different men, but both biographies brought me to tears. A great book.

[Benny Profane]

Rhoda. Have you gotten to the part where she's talking to Bast about his electric tie rack and "computer for cooking steaks"? That was the funniest scene in the book for me. But, yeah, Gibbs is the man.




I've met Rhoda, and agree she is funny, but haven't gotten to that part. I'm on page 450 or so. Bast just wrote the Everglades piece for Crawley and they're discussing it. ALSO funny.

[lovejuice]

Saturday (Ian McEwan) - First book I've read by McEwan. I'm ambivalent at best.
sad to hear that. i'm always kinda curious about famous authors' take on post-911. too bad, Saturday doesn't sound like the one.

[lovejuice]

third way through little green men. very funny so far, although i have a high doubt if the story can develop much further than where it's right now.

[Duncan]

sad to hear that. i'm always kinda curious about famous authors' take on post-911. too bad, Saturday doesn't sound like the one.

It could be that I'm jut not into McEwan, since I have nothing to compare it to. But if you're looking for the post 9-11 novel, then no, I don't think this is it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

It could be that I'm jut not into McEwan, since I have nothing to compare it to. But if you're looking for the post 9-11 novel, then no, I don't think this is it.

That would be The Zero.

*nudge nudge*

[Winston*]

I gave up on Saturday about halfway through and I've liked to loved the other four McEwan novels I've read, if that means anything Duncan.

Got a couple of weeks off so I'll try and do some good reading. Started on Dickens' Hard Times. "Schoolmaster M'Choakumchild": love it.

[Ezee E]

Don't know what to read again.

[Benny Profane]

Don't know what to read again.

Ask the Dust by John Fante.

[lovejuice]

the zero is terrific. for my purpose though, i'm thinking about intellectual giants like Eco or Kundera who used to analyze and talk about the post-cold war world. want to hear their thought on the current issue.

chomsky on the other hand just can't seem to shut up.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Don't know what to read again.

Go buy 2666 and finish it. Or read The Zero.

[D_Davis]

Some of the art in the new 4ed D&D books is fantastic. I love reading the manuals almost as much as I like playing the game. Although I feel self conscious reading them in public. That's actually pretty stupid, considering all of the incredibly smart, talented, and mature people I've met who play RPGs. That stigma and taint of juvenile attitudes is still there.

I wonder why that is?

Sure, it's nerdy as hell, but nerdy shit is cool now. I mean, Star Trek is now hip, RPGs are huge and uber-popular as video games, and the LotRs films were popular with all kinds of different people. So are super heroes. Shoot, geek culture is now the most hip of all sub-cultures. People love geeky stuff.

And yet old school paper RPGs are still kind of a social no-no, when the exact opposite should be true: they are truly social activities, far more so than many other hobbies. You have to have friends and be socially active to even play the games!

Anyhow, looking forward to starting our 4ed campaign this weekend.

Don't really know where to talk about this - books...games...eh?

[Ezee E]

Go buy 2666 and finish it. Or read The Zero.
Read The Zero. It was alright. I couldn't get into it like you did. It sometimes became frustrating that whenever there was a highpoint, it cut away, almost as if the writer did that because he didn't know where to take it. Instead, he got smart, and made it the gimmick.

Hate on me for it.

2666 might be a good idea. Was loving where I was at.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Read The Zero. It was alright. I couldn't get into it like you did. It sometimes became frustrating that whenever there was a highpoint, it cut away, almost as if the writer did that because he didn't know where to take it. Instead, he got smart, and made it the gimmick.

Hate on me for it.

Hating you as we speak.

[Ezee E]

Hating you as we speak.
Sorry dude. I was liking it for a while, until it just seemed to happen again and again and again.

Do you have any commentary on it anywhere?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Sorry dude. I was liking it for a while, until it just seemed to happen again and again and again.

Do you have any commentary on it anywhere?

Not really. I suck at writing reviews and pretty much hate doing them. All those letdowns you speak of I found even more compelling. I think he knew exactly where the story was headed. The way the mystery unfolds, and the final few scenes, are too perfect for him to have been winging it all along. I love the way the book plays with our collective memory as a society and as an individual, especially when concerning important moments in our history. I found the book to be a perfect blend of humor, drama, and suspense, and that ending was just flawless. That's a book I will most definitely be returning to in the near future.

[Mysterious Dude]

Slaughterhoue-Five. Why did I wait until now to read this?

[Skitch]

Finally got Max Barry's last book, Company.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Blew through the first 100 pages of Blind Side. Fantastic so far.

[MacGuffin]

I finally finished The Metamorphosis and I'm not really sure how to feel. It's a great book to be sure, but it's just so depressing in how it takes one random man — who, as far as we know has done nothing harmful to society, but who has only been of support to his family, and has been a good worker for his sales business — and tears his world apart. I like how the book takes a look at how the metamorphosis affects the family, as it becomes a sort of character study afterwards. The three boarders were also fantastic characters and as I was reading, I saw this image of three identical looking men with matching tan overcoats and hats with black-rimmed circular glasses and long gray beards; all identical in height and weight. It's a very well-written and important book, I think, but I can see how the thematic approach could be upsetting to some.

Edit: Also, does anybody know if Gregor was a giant beetle, or just a small one? Was this left purposely ambiguous or did I misinterpret something (I read Stanley Corngold's translation, by the way)?

[ledfloyd]

i thought it was very clear he was a giant beetle.

i just finished reading miss lonelyhearts and along with the day of the locust i can say i am a fan of nathanael west. it's a shame he died so young.

i also recently read huckleberry finn which i really enjoyed. not sure what i'll tackle next.

[MacGuffin]

i thought it was very clear he was a giant beetle.


Really? My book is translated to describe him as "monstrous vermin", so I suppose that could either be interpreted as either very large or very scary. Either way, it would have made the book a whole lot creepy had I envisioned a giant beetle walking around the whole time. But I didn't do that.

[Ezee E]

Got Revolutionary Road. Loving it. 50 pages or so in the first day.

[Hugh_Grant]

I'd vote for "purposely ambiguous."

Kafka's phrase "ungeheuren Ungeziefer" has been translated in different ways: Corngold's "monstrous vermin," "gigantic insect" (Edwin/Willa Muir), "monstrous insect" (John Siscoe), and even "enormous bug" (Robert Crumb, in his illustrated version).

There's actually a decent discussion over at The Metamorphosis's Wiki page about the problems translating the phrase and what is lost in the various attempts. Click here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Metamorphosis#Lost_in_tran slation)

[MacGuffin]

I'd vote for "purposely ambiguous."

Kafka's phrase "ungeheuren Ungeziefer" has been translated in different ways: Corngold's "monstrous vermin," "gigantic insect" (Edwin/Willa Muir), "monstrous insect" (John Siscoe), and even "enormous bug" (Robert Crumb, in his illustrated version).

There's actually a decent discussion over at The Metamorphosis's Wiki page about the problems translating the phrase and what is lost in the various attempts. Click here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Metamorphosis#Lost_in_tran slation)

Thanks!

[Duncan]

I think the form he takes is definitely intended to be ambiguous, but his size is undoubtedly large. An apple that lodges in is back stays there and cripples him. I think that gives you a decent impression of scale. He can also stand and reach doorhandles, which also suggests he's a giant something rather.


Read a book by John Polkinghorne called Theology in the Context of Science. I thought it would be a good idea to read a thoughtful defense of Christianity, because, to be honest, I haven't heard one for a while. Polkinghorne is a scientist, and definitely knows more about science (specifically physics) than I do. The book is about adapting theology to mesh with scientific facts and keeping it relevant. I didn't find his attempts very convincing, but it would have taken a lot for me to be convinced. His style is very gentle. In a lot of ways, he's kind of the exact opposite of someone like Richard Dawkins. A devout Christian who tries to consider the rationale behind all viewpoints and then writes a sort of anti-polemic. In any case, the audience for this book (as he writes) is actually theology students, that is to say, not me. But if you're a Christian and looking to learn a bit about some fairly high level conceptual physics (no math) and how it relates to Christian teachings, this is a pretty good book.

[Duncan]

Oh, one more interesting thing about Theology in the Context of Science. I've never quite understood what was accomplished by Jesus' crucifiction, and always thought myself lacking for not getting it. "He died for our sins." But what does that mean? It's something that is taken for granted, I find, and I felt kind of pleased to learn that it's not so trivial a point amongst theologians. In fact, there is no agreement on what exactly happened there, or what the point of it was beyond it being an act of atonement.

[Ezee E]

I'd be surprised if someone liked Revolutionary Road as a book, but didn't like the movie. They're pretty much the same, only they're sure making Leo's character a lot more hateful in the book. Sheesh.

Still haven't gotten to Michael Shannon's character yet.

April Wheeler is currently the exact same as she was in the movie. And Kathy Bates was perfectly cast for her character.

[Mara]

I read Darkly Dreaming Dexter.

:|

[Kurosawa Fan]

I read Darkly Dreaming Dexter.

:|

Yeah. It sucked. Hard.

[Mara]

Yeah. It sucked. Hard.

Even with low expectations (I'd heard it was blah) I was disappointed. That they managed to make this into two seasons of awesome is pretty impressive.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Even with low expectations (I'd heard it was blah) I was disappointed. That they managed to make this into two seasons of awesome is pretty impressive.

Absolutely. I read it a couple years ago and was just amazed at how terrible it was. Then I let a buddy of mine borrow it and he said the same thing. I don't understand how it was published and became a character worthy of sequels. Who's reading it and wanting more?

[Duncan]

In the middle of The Woman Destroyed by Simone de Beauvoir. I've read the first two of three novellas it includes:

The Time of Discretion - About an aging, intellectual, leftist woman whose son decides to abandon his principles (as she sees them) and get a good paying job, and the shock that sends through her marriage. I found the narrator a little frustrating, but it seemed like a very truthful book about aging and the loss/gain it involves.

The Monologue - About an extremely lonely, middle-aged woman whose life has basically fallen apart. It's a bitter, misanthropic, depressive, vicious screed against humanity and life in general. At first I thought it was kind of hilarious (In the streets of Paris hundreds of thousands. And it's the same in every town all over the world: three thousand million and it'll get worse: famines are not nearly enough more and more and more people: even the sky is infested with them presently they will be as thick in space as they are on the motorways and the moon you can't look at it any more without thinking that there are cunts up there spouting away...), but eventually it becomes rather pitiful and sobering. Excellent story.

[Duncan]

I found an online version of Pushkin's Eugene Onegin after I drenched and then accidentally burned my print copy. Finished reading it today. The ending was perhaps slightly anticlimactic, but very sad in a day-to-day frustration of hopes kind of way. It was tragic, but not in a Shakespearean sense. Anyway, it was really good. A novel in verse, somewhat classical but also a little lowbrow at times (like musing over small feet), ironic, self-deprecating. Definitely not stuffy. It's a lament for youth lost, a satire of the aristocracy, and a love story. It's not overly long, and can be found online here. (http://lib.ru/LITRA/PUSHKIN/ENGLISH/onegin_j.txt)I definitely recommend it.

[Ivan Drago]

Wow. Okay, well, this is all off the top of my head, but here we go. There were things Stephanie Meyer did well. Very well, in fact. She's very strong at creating eroticism. That's definitely her strong suit. I was roped into the romance and the sexual desire from the moment Bella and Edward met. She didn't need to be explicit, didn't resort to shock, she just handled the specifics of their interactions and created a pretty intriguing atmosphere between the two. She also did a very good job creating an accurate portrait of a teenage girl. Bella is confused, shes contradictory, she's kind of a mess emotionally, and that's pretty indicative of any seventeen year old, regardless of gender.

These are positives of the movie as well.

Yup. It wasn't too bad.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Finished The Blind Side. Fascinating book. I kind of wish there had been more football history and less Michael Oher, but I understand why Lewis went the direction he did. I'm looking forward to following Oher's career, and will be rooting for him.

Now going with Brideshead Revisited by Waugh.

[Benny Profane]

Finished The Blind Side. Fascinating book. I kind of wish there had been more football history and less Michael Oher, but I understand why Lewis went the direction he did. I'm looking forward to following Oher's career, and will be rooting for him.



Feel the same way. I wonder if Harbaugh has the ketchup and mustard bottles ready.

Brideshead is great. Can't see you not loving it.

[Ezee E]

Revolutionary Road is starting to get repetitive now as we hear the neighbor's story, which is simply one or two scenes in the movie, but is an entire chapter here.

Yates hates suburbia more than anyone. He can write the hell out of it though, and that's kept me reading.

[Qrazy]

I'd be surprised if someone liked Revolutionary Road as a book, but didn't like the movie. They're pretty much the same, only they're sure making Leo's character a lot more hateful in the book. Sheesh.

Still haven't gotten to Michael Shannon's character yet.

April Wheeler is currently the exact same as she was in the movie. And Kathy Bates was perfectly cast for her character.

If I didn't like the movie much would I like the book?

[Ezee E]

If I didn't like the movie much would I like the book?
Probably not.

[thefourthwall]

after I drenched and then accidentally burned my print copy

:eek: How does that happen?


Now going with Brideshead Revisited by Waugh.

love, love, love

[Duncan]

:eek: How does that happen?
I left it on the dock while I was suntanning, and the wind threw it into the lake. Then, to dry it out, I put it in the microwave. I checked it after a minute and it was getting visibly dryer, so I put it in for another five minutes and went to go dry myself off, since I had gone swimming to retrieve the book. I smelled burning and ran back to the kitchen, but it hadn't actually erupted in flames. The middle and later sections of the book were just charred and unreadable. Keep in mind that I had consumed much wine over the course of the day.


Also, finished The Woman Destroyed. Pretty brutal stuff. The last and titular story takes the form of a 44-year-old woman's diary. Her husband has begun an affair and basically told her that he won't break it off but he won't leave her. He wants both. As you may have guessed from the title, it doesn't work out well for the woman. It's obviously an unsustainable, horrid situation, and from what I know about Beauvoir, the husband is probably modeled loosely on Sartre, who I guess had a tendency to take such an attitude towards women. Lots of existential stuff about time passing and the giving away of one's self to another in love and the dangers of that. But also the worthwhileness of that.

So, pretty miserable book, overall. Very pitiful heroines. I guess I liked The Monologue best, simply because it was more intense than the other two. Pure, concentrated vitriol. All were moving in their ways, but I think it gets a touch repetitive by the end.

[ledfloyd]

I'd vote for "purposely ambiguous."

Kafka's phrase "ungeheuren Ungeziefer" has been translated in different ways: Corngold's "monstrous vermin," "gigantic insect" (Edwin/Willa Muir), "monstrous insect" (John Siscoe), and even "enormous bug" (Robert Crumb, in his illustrated version).

There's actually a decent discussion over at The Metamorphosis's Wiki page about the problems translating the phrase and what is lost in the various attempts. Click here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Metamorphosis#Lost_in_tran slation)
i read the muir translation. so that explains why i thought it was clear he was 'gigantic.'


I'd be surprised if someone liked Revolutionary Road as a book, but didn't like the movie. They're pretty much the same, only they're sure making Leo's character a lot more hateful in the book. Sheesh.
i liked the book and didn't like the film. i thought the prose and internal thoughts and stuff didn't translate very well and was my favorite stuff. i had a few more substantial thoughts but it appears they haven't stuck in my mind. i do remember reading a few reviews claiming they turned a great book into a mediocre movie and agreeing with that.

right now i'm reading the moviegoer and loving it.

[Ezee E]

People complained about things being too obvious in the movie. I don't understand that.

[Milky Joe]

Finally finished 2666. Amazing book. Part 5 was my favorite. As a person who likes to think of themselves as a prospective writer and who romanticizes writers, it was incredibly inspirational, despite the rampant darkness.

[Qrazy]

People complained about things being too obvious in the movie. I don't understand that.

Are those two painfully terrible lines in the book?

Something something, I felt alive the first time we made love.

And you're so beautiful, don't you know what you are? What? A man!

[Ezee E]

Are those two painfully terrible lines in the book?

Something something, I felt alive the first time we made love.

And you're so beautiful, don't you know what you are? What? A man!
Can't recall.

Watched the movie again today though, and reading the book definitely enhances the movie. Brief shots in the movie last entire pages in the book, but the direction is still there in the movie. Good stuff.

[ledfloyd]

Can't recall.

Watched the movie again today though, and reading the book definitely enhances the movie. Brief shots in the movie last entire pages in the book, but the direction is still there in the movie. Good stuff.
i remember the opening scene being alot longer and alot more effective in the book.

[Ezee E]

Like I said, they compliment each other. The book is much longer in its opening pages, but its something that you don't want narration for on screen. Its simply a couple shots.

If anything, the book does do a better job giving Leo a smarter, more-rounded character. But I think it does less with Kate.

[Hugh_Grant]

Finally finished 2666. Amazing book. Part 5 was my favorite. As a person who likes to think of themselves as a prospective writer and who romanticizes writers, it was incredibly inspirational, despite the rampant darkness.

Unfortunately, I had to return 2666 to the library. I was just feeling too tethered by due dates. I definitely want to read the whole thing, so I'll try to buy it one of these days.

Next on my list to read: Aravind Adiga's The White Tiger. I might start it today--just depends on how much grading I get done.

[MacGuffin]

Finally read the first story in Ficciones. It's amazing of course, and probably the best thing I've ever read if not one of the best, plus it got me thinking about really fascinating things to think about, like objective reality.

[thefourthwall]

Next on my list to read: Aravind Adiga's The White Tiger. I might start it today--just depends on how much grading I get done.

Grading? Isn't the semester done? Has the summer term started already?

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on The White Tiger, the Bookers have not been too exciting to me of late.

[Hugh_Grant]

Grading? Isn't the semester done? Has the summer term started already?

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on The White Tiger, the Bookers have not been too exciting to me of late.

Summer term began almost four weeks ago for us.

Did you read the 2004 Booker winner, The Line of Beauty? I love that book.

[thefourthwall]

I didn't, but I'll shamefacedly admit that I watched the really long BBC film of it as a substitute when I was studying for exams. I enjoyed it well enough, but knowing the BBC's propensity for fidelity to the text, I'm worried that I'll be bored by the repeat if I read the book. :(

[thefourthwall]

And wow. Are you at a US university? Our summer term doesn't start for another week yet!

[Hugh_Grant]

And wow. Are you at a US university? Our summer term doesn't start for another week yet!

I'm at a US college in a Southern state with really odd school starting and ending dates. For K-12, students start in early August and go to late May.

My husband is a student at our local public university where there are "Maymester" classes offered, so he's already done with one summer class and well into his second!

Actually, the BBC adaptation of The Line of Beauty was extremely faithful to the novel. I was very impressed!

[Duncan]

I've been reading bits and pieces of Gravity's Rainbow again. Just flipping from page to page. That book is incredible. No matter where I turn there's always something worth reading.

[Benny Profane]

Forgot to mention, last week I finished JR. I don't have much to add to Duncan's erudite comments. The constant fragmented sentences can get to be a bit much. I found it hard to read more than 15 pages at a time because it is a totally exhausting effort to absorb Gaddis' style, especially when Davidoff or Cates are talking. That being said, it works very well as a satire and a farce, it makes salient observations on capitalism, art, and education, and is probably one of the best (and funniest) books I've ever read. I don't use the term masterpiece liberally, but this is one.

[Benny Profane]

I also finished Giovanni's Room by James Baldwin. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Now reading New York Trilogy by Paul Auster.

[Ezee E]

Picked up Steinbeck's To A God Unknown. Short book. Should finish in a week.

[Duncan]

Forgot to mention, last week I finished JR. I don't have much to add to Duncan's erudite comments. The constant fragmented sentences can get to be a bit much. I found it hard to read more than 15 pages at a time because it is a totally exhausting effort to absorb Gaddis' style, especially when Davidoff or Cates are talking. That being said, it works very well as a satire and a farce, it makes salient observations on capitalism, art, and education, and is probably one of the best (and funniest) books I've ever read. I don't use the term masterpiece liberally, but this is one.
Yeah, I found that one scene with Davidoff in the office at the hotel a bit of a stall point. It's almost hard not to call it a masterpiece, I think. Or, if the book infuriated the reader (which I could see it doing for some people), I think it's pretty hard to deny the utter control he has over language.

I bought Agapē Agape the other day. It's the book Gibbs was working on about the player piano and the mechanization of the arts. It's less than 100 pages, published posthumously, and was apparently written by Gaddis with the knowledge that he was about to die, so I think it'll be a solid, quick read.

[lovejuice]

unfortunately devil in the white city and perhaps the whole historical narrative genre might not be my thing. it's an enjoyable read, and the text is pregnant with meaning, but i am more interested in direct analysis of zeitgeist and history rather than having to read that between the line. more telling, and less showing, weirdly enough.

i have similar problem with other books in this same genre: in cold blood and manhunt.

[ledfloyd]

i am about 120 pages into tree of smoke by denis johnson and i am loving it. really really good.

[EvilShoe]

Finished The Crying of Lot 49, which lived up to the hype! Smart and funny.

I finally know where Benny's av is from.

[Benny Profane]

Yeah, I found that one scene with Davidoff in the office at the hotel a bit of a stall point. It's almost hard not to call it a masterpiece, I think. Or, if the book infuriated the reader (which I could see it doing for some people), I think it's pretty hard to deny the utter control he has over language.

I bought Agapē Agape the other day. It's the book Gibbs was working on about the player piano and the mechanization of the arts. It's less than 100 pages, published posthumously, and was apparently written by Gaddis with the knowledge that he was about to die, so I think it'll be a solid, quick read.

Certain characters, like Davidoff, are meant to infuriate the readers, so I had no problem with that. You could say he overemphasized the point, I guess, but since it was so damn entertaining he got away with it, imo.

Looking forward to your thoughts on the Gibbs book. He has vaulted to the near-top of my favorite characters list.

[Benny Profane]

Finished The Crying of Lot 49, which lived up to the hype! Smart and funny.

I finally know where Benny's av is from.

Nice. Now you gotta read V. to know where my username and location come from.

[EvilShoe]

Finished Palahniuk's Survivor in two days. Dark popcorn entertainment.
Really enjoyed it, will read more of Palahniuk.

Next up: Blood Meridian.

[trotchky]

I'm 400 pages into Donna Tartt's The Little Friend. I've lost track of the number of times the plot has gained and then lost momentum, but since her first book, The Secret History, is one of the best novels I've ever read, I'm hoping she pulls out something really amazing within the next ~250 pages.

[Benny Profane]

I finished The New York Trilogy. I, uh, wasn't all that impressed.

About to embark on Against the Day by Pynchon and am psyching myself up. It is rather intimidating but I want to finish it before Inherent Vice comes out in August. Wish me luck!

[lovejuice]

I finished The New York Trilogy. I, uh, wasn't all that impressed.
me neither. wanna contemplate?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Next up: Blood Meridian.

I didn't like this book nearly as much as I wanted to/should have.

[Milky Joe]

Happy Bloomsday everybody.

[EvilShoe]

I didn't like this book nearly as much as I wanted to/should have.
Can't say I agree with you so far. If it stays this good I might even rank it above The Road and No Country for Old Men.

[lovejuice]

joseph conrad's the secret agent is a grating read. too bad considered how much potention contains within the story which's told badly. full of unneccessary characters and scenes. quite unlike heart of darkness in many aspects.

[Benny Profane]

me neither. wanna contemplate?

While some aspects were good, I felt most of it was overly contrived nonsense.

[Ezee E]

If it weren't for my ridiculous workweek, I figure I'd be done with To A God Unknown. It's great.

[kuehnepips]

Happy Bloomsday everybody.

Well, I was drinking something Irish. Does that count?

[Duncan]

Looking forward to your thoughts on the Gibbs book. He has vaulted to the near-top of my favorite characters list.
Read it about a week ago. It's called Agapē Agape. It's written in one giant paragraph from the perspective of an unnamed narrator. It's certainly not as funny as J R. Actually, it's a very desperate sounding book. I guess Gaddis had been working in real life on this book about the player piano and the overall mechanization of the arts his whole life but kept hitting a wall like Gibbs does in J R. So, knowing he was about to die, Gaddis abandoned the nonfiction format and just wrote the damn thing stream of consciousness style. The result is a 100 pages of ideas that are actually quite difficult to pull a thesis out of. More like 20 theses. There are quotes everywhere, and I think it would have been good to have actually read everyone he was quoting, because he pulls from all sorts of sources. So, obviously, a tough book to crack but quite readable. I finished it in one sitting. And since it was published posthumously and you know the author is aware of his impending death, the more desperate sounding lines are actually pretty haunting.

[Duncan]

I also read Death in Venice, Consider the Lobster, and Being and Time (finally finished it!). They were all very good.

[Milky Joe]

I also read Death in Venice, Consider the Lobster, and Being and Time (finally finished it!). They were all very good.

Yay. The things on Dostoevsky and Kafka are two of my favorite DFW pieces.

[Kurosawa Fan]

unfortunately devil in the white city and perhaps the whole historical narrative genre might not be my thing. it's an enjoyable read, and the text is pregnant with meaning, but i am more interested in direct analysis of zeitgeist and history rather than having to read that between the line. more telling, and less showing, weirdly enough.

i have similar problem with other books in this same genre: in cold blood and manhunt.

I love all three of these books. I'm quite surprised you don't enjoy them, considering our taste seems much the same in the area of fiction.


Finished The Crying of Lot 49, which lived up to the hype! Smart and funny.

I finally know where Benny's av is from.

Fantastic book. I can't wait to read V., which I acquired from BookMooch a few weeks back.


Finished Palahniuk's Survivor in two days. Dark popcorn entertainment.
Really enjoyed it, will read more of Palahniuk.

Next up: Blood Meridian.

Congrats! You just read Palahniuk as good as he'll ever be. It's all downhill from here. Glad you liked it though. I would have felt bad if I sent all three of those your way only to have you dislike all of them.


If it weren't for my ridiculous workweek, I figure I'd be done with To A God Unknown. It's great.

This is the only Steinbeck novel that left me totally cold. Wasn't bad, but wasn't very affecting. Maybe it was my mood.


As for my reading, it's been much slower this vacation than most others, mainly due to the fact that the wife and I have been watching Deadwood pretty much every night on my laptop. I'm nearly finished with Brideshead, and after that I have with me One Hundred Years of Solitude and The Executioner's Song. Not sure which I'll go with yet. Whatever strikes me when I finish the Waugh.

[trotchky]

Guys, guys. I need some advice here. Should I read 2666? Is it something I would enjoy? I don't like starting novels and not finishing them, and since this one looks to be a pretty big commitment, I need some guidance here.

For reference, some of my favorite authors are: Bret Easton Ellis, Donna Tartt, Amy Hempel, Haruki Murakami, Nabokov, Garcia Marquez, George Saunders, Martin Amis, P.K. Dick, Hunter S. Thompson, Raymond Carver, Dennis Cooper, Not Don DeLillo, Not Tom Wolfe, Not Jack Kerouac, Ken Kesey despite myself, Joan Didion, Fitzgerald, Salinger, Irvine Welsh, Chuck Palahniuk, Harriet E. Wilson, William Gibson, some Jay McInerney, not Pierre Guyotat, not Hubert Selby Jr., and not Miranda July.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Guys, guys. I need some advice here. Should I read 2666?

Yes. I don't care what authors you enjoy, it's worth a shot, because pretty much everyone on here who read it found it brilliant.

Finished Brideshead Revisited, which was wonderful. Moved on to The Executioner's Song and read the first hundred pages in one sitting.

[Duncan]

Yay. The things on Dostoevsky and Kafka are two of my favorite DFW pieces.

I really liked the Dostoevsky piece, especially the stuff he explores towards the end. The Kafka piece was just alright, I thought. I really liked the essay on Updike though. I thought that was hilarious. The porn Oscars one was also very funny, and probably the saddest. The one on McCain was a little overlong. Liked the one on American usage, pretty funny for a review of a usage dictionary. Not so big on the closing essay, Host. Again, a little overlong and I didn't find it totally compelling. The titular essay was excellent. The 9/11 one was also excellent.

[thefourthwall]

Finished Brideshead Revisited, which was wonderful.

Don't attempt the BBC/Jeremy Irons "mini" series of the book (which I loved)--it's dreadfully long, and boringly faithful.

[trotchky]

Yes. I don't care what authors you enjoy, it's worth a shot, because pretty much everyone on here who read it found it brilliant.

Thanks for the heads-up. I will pursue it after I finish The Friends of Eddie Coyle by George V. Higgins.

[lovejuice]

after a long debate with myself i decide to take stephen dedalus as my travel companion during my 3 weeks stay in hamburg.

[Milky Joe]

Does that mean Ulysses? Or A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man? ...or Stephen Hero?

[trotchky]

Thanks for the heads-up. I will pursue it after I finish The Friends of Eddie Coyle by George V. Higgins.

Update: I will pursue it after I finish The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle by Haruki Murakami.

[lovejuice]

Does that mean Ulysses? Or A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man? ...or Stephen Hero?
ulysses. :cool:

[Milky Joe]

ulysses. :cool:

Nice.

Has anyone here ever read any Thomas Mann? I'm trying to decide which novel of his to read. It will probably end up being The Magic Mountain, but Doctor Faustus also looks interesting.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Update: I will pursue it after I finish The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle by Haruki Murakami.

You chose poorly.

[Duncan]

Nice.

Has anyone here ever read any Thomas Mann? I'm trying to decide which novel of his to read. It will probably end up being The Magic Mountain, but Doctor Faustus also looks interesting.

I've only read Death in Venice, but it was very good. Enigmatic and vaguely threatening discussion of aesthetics/lustful reverie and a more classically restrained way of approaching art slotted into a fairly compelling story.

[Milky Joe]

Indeed, I just read that the other day. It's what inspired me to pick up one of the novels.

[MacGuffin]

You chose poorly.

No, considering The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle is one of the best books ever written, I'd say he chose okay. Haven't read 2666, but it interests me. However, I still can't find time to focus on Ficciones, and I still have a bunch of other large books to read.

[trotchky]

Guys, I finished up Donna Tartt's The Little Friend last night, and wrote a fairly lengthy analysis of it tonight. I dunno if anyone has read this book or knows the other, but if anyone does and is interested in talking about it, please speak up!

[lovejuice]

Nice.

Has anyone here ever read any Thomas Mann? I'm trying to decide which novel of his to read. It will probably end up being The Magic Mountain, but Doctor Faustus also looks interesting.

i am quite a fan, although sadly i have read only three of his. The Magic Mountain is indeed the most famous, but i haven't read that one yet. I actually recommend Death in Venice since that's my favorite. if you plan to go with Doctor Faustus, be prepare for a no-plot and endless conversation on german philosophy.

[Kurosawa Fan]

No, considering The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle is one of the best books ever written, I'd say he chose okay. Haven't read 2666, but it interests me. However, I still can't find time to focus on Ficciones, and I still have a bunch of other large books to read.

Ugh. Not even close. I swear I feel like people just say that because they're supposed to. Even if you loved the book, which is hard enough for me to understand, to say it's one of the best books ever written is so absurd to me I can't really wrap my head around it.

[lovejuice]

Ugh. Not even close. I swear I feel like people just say that because they're supposed to. Even if you loved the book, which is hard enough for me to understand, to say it's one of the best books ever written is so absurd to me I can't really wrap my head around it.
considered my disliking murakami in general, i think i'll agree with you even if i haven't read that one yet.

[Melville]

Hey Milky Joe, have you read Foucault's Discipline and Punish? I finished it a few days ago, and given your somewhat paranoid views, I think you might be interested in Foucault's analysis of shifting power structures. His basic thesis is that the creation of the modern justice system, with its use of prison terms as its default punishment, stems less from the egalitarian ideals of the Enlightenment and more from the emergence of a new overarching system of power: with the rise of capitalism and the middle class, power relationships became based on perpetual observation and discipline, designed to create and enforce a complex social structure with maximal economy and efficiency, and the justice system naturally followed suit by enforcing that structure's norms. Sometimes Foucault's interpretations seem a bit far fetched, but his style of extracting underlying ideologies from mountains of primary sources is always interesting. The relatively focused thesis also made this more compelling than, say, Madness and Civilization.