The Comic Book Discussion Thread

[megladon8]

I really like Matt Wagner. Particularly when he does Batman stuff.

[EyesWideOpen]

I really like Matt Wagner. Particularly when he does Batman stuff.

Yep he's another one.

But if I could only pick one artist to say is my favorite hands down it would be Darwyn Cooke.

[megladon8]

Yep he's another one.

But if I could only pick one artist to say is my favorite hands down it would be Darwyn Cooke.


I honestly haven't seen enough of Cooke's work to say he's a favorite or not, but I do like what I've seen.

I'm really into a lot of minimalist indie artists, as well. Chester Brown and Jason are both great. As is Seth.

[Melville]

Chris Ware
Dave Sim
Al Columbia
Tardi
Eddie Campbell
Chester Brown (in Louis Riel mode)

Plenty of others are great, but those would be my favorites (in descending order of preference). Not sure if Sim and Brown should count, though, as Sim's post-Cerebus stuff looks pretty lame and Brown hasn't released anything in years.

[megladon8]

I really like Chris Ware much more as an artist than as a writer.

[EyesWideOpen]

I honestly haven't seen enough of Cooke's work to say he's a favorite or not, but I do like what I've seen.



http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/last-resort1a.jpg

http://files.aspiritedlife.com/blog/ART-IS/ASL-DC-Spirit.gif

http://dailypop.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/dc_the_new_frontier_800x600-727443.jpg

And if you see it at a comic book store pick up Jonah Hex #50. It's simply beautiful.

[megladon8]

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/last-resort1a.jpg

http://files.aspiritedlife.com/blog/ART-IS/ASL-DC-Spirit.gif

http://dailypop.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/dc_the_new_frontier_800x600-727443.jpg

And if you see it at a comic book store pick up Jonah Hex #50. It's simply beautiful.


Cool thanks for the recommendations!

[dreamdead]

Alright, then. While on the topic, what are everybody's favorite current comic book artists? Who would you consider to be great?

Most definitely J.H. Williams III. Even if I wasn't mesmerized by Jimmy Corrigan, I can't deny that the panel design by Ware wasn't altogether impressive.

[ledfloyd]

chris ware, darwyn cooke and jh williams III stand out for me.

[number8]

Good choices, most of them all, but no one's mentioned JP Leon yet, who's one of my absolute favorites.

http://johnpaulleon.com/images/artwork/fs/WMSP_004.jpg

[EyesWideOpen]

Yep JP Leon is top notch. I just read Black Widow: Deadly Origin and JP Leon does all the flashbacks and another artist does the current stuff and all it does is make you want JP Leon to be doing the whole book.

[Sven]

Mignola's work definitely stands out.

[Melville]

Mignola's work definitely stands out.
Oh, yeah, he should've been toward the top of my list. But is he current? He stopped doing the artwork in Hellboy a few years ago.

[EyesWideOpen]

Oh, yeah, he should've been toward the top of my list. But is he current? He stopped doing the artwork in Hellboy a few years ago.

He does some work and he still does the majority of the covers for the Hellboy & BPRD series so I think that still counts as current.

[Melville]

He does some work and he still does the majority of the covers for the Hellboy & BPRD series so I think that still counts as current.
I don't think covers should count as comics work. Or at least not usually (Ware does full comics narratives on covers). Which interiors has he done lately? I've avoided the last couple Hellboy TPBs because I thought he didn't do any of the interior art. Anyway, he's awesome. I love the thin, even-weight lines and geometrical demons.

[Grouchy]

Well, if we're counting comic book covers, none has mentioned Brian Bolland yet.

http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/92/brian_bolland.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_me9WdtLV74o/SuqOL2AhwlI/AAAAAAAAEIw/PDQ2gI5QqKo/s800/Brian-Bolland-06_Jack-of-Fables-1.jpg

[Sven]

Anyway, he's awesome. I love the thin, even-weight lines and geometrical demons.

Where you apply the descriptor "geometrical," I would describe how the tentacles and strange angles of his monsters look sculpted. The heavy shadows and heaviness with which he bestows his characters make them frequently feel as stoic as concrete.

[Grouchy]

A shout-out to Kyle Baker:

http://www.scritchandscratch.com/img/scratch/kylebaker/080813_kbspf3.jpg

http://pics.livejournal.com/ulf_boehnke/pic/0001a3sh

http://www.lambiek.net/artists/b/baker_kyle/baker_kyle_1990_critical_ma.jp g

[Acapelli]

mike allred is probably my favorite working artist today. i'll buy anything he's attached to. other artists i feel similarly about:

jh williams iii
sean phillips
john romita jr
paul pope
leonard kirk
frank quitely
chris bachalo
leinil yu
alex maleev
marcos martin
paolo siquiera
scott kollins
nick dragotta
cameron stewart
doug mahnke
frazer irving
ryan sook
cliff chiang

[Acapelli]

and seeing bill sienkiewicz doing the back-up in the first issue of the new spirit run makes me wish he did more work besides just inking

[Grouchy]

Eduardo Risso:

http://www.disegnioriginali.it/originalpages/eduardo_risso_100b0908.jpg

http://www.lambiek.net/artists/r/risso_eduardo/risso_100bullets.jpg

http://www.playbackstl.com/images/stories/paneldiscussion/0208/logan2cov.jpg

[megladon8]

Rob Liefield is pretty awesome.

[Spaceman Spiff]

http://angou33.ifrance.com/TARDI-E.jpg

Tardi is magnificant. I need to get ahold of everything he's written.

Others favorite artists:

Herge
Ware
Crumb

[Acapelli]

Rob Liefield is pretty awesome.
you should at least show us some indication that you're joking. maybe an especially terrible panel or splash or cover

[EyesWideOpen]

you should at least show us some indication that you're joking. maybe an especially terrible panel or splash or cover

http://etopuzlu.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/liefeld-cap.jpg

[Sven]

I'm also a huge fan of Sam Kieth. And, on that note, William Messner-Loebs is incredible.

[number8]

I find Steve Dillon massively underrated.

[number8]

http://comiccritics.com/comics/2010-05-24_cc_118.gif

http://comiccritics.com/2010/05/24/always-be-opening/

[Sven]

Nearing the conclusion of The Invisibles. Vol. 6 just about destroyed my mind.

[number8]

Nearing the conclusion of The Invisibles. Vol. 6 just about destroyed my mind.

It's okay. Morrison destroyed his writing it.

[Sven]

It's okay. Morrison destroyed his writing it.

One of the things that is fueling my mad rush to read everything Morrison (it would be embarrassing at this point to admit exactly how many Morrison TPB's I've acquired since my last announcement) is that I REALLY want to read about Morrison. See what other people make of his work, approach, narratives, themes, etc. I've never forayed into critical discussions of comics before, but I think I'm starting to get a strong feel for the medium. I think Morrison's emphasis on the creative process has aided this sense. But that his work is frequently bolstered by incredible artists with some killer layouts definitely helps too.

[number8]

If you still lived near me, I'd let you borrow my copy of the Disinformation DVD set. The special feature has the full video of Morrison, drunk as fuck, talking from a podium to an audience of conspiracy theorists for a full hour, Guinness in hand, about the power of writing fiction as a form of casting spells, turning them into reality. And LSD.

[Sven]

about the power of writing fiction as a form of casting spells, turning them into reality. And LSD.

Sounds exactly like Vol. 6 of The Invisibles.

Cool sounding DVD. In all honesty, I wish I was still in Brooklyn. No dis on Seattle, but the B&N that I worked at there was soooooo much more fun. And here, I'm beginning to confront the realities of defining my adult life, etc. which could be another reason for my violent headlong leap into comic books.

[dreamdead]

Yeah, I think we're gonna go on a Morrison kick as well soon.

Meantime, Preacher vol. 2 took the narrative into some interesting places, although the modern-day sex party Gomorrah business felt slight and unconnected to the larger narrative that Ennis and Dillion seem to be interested in, namely the business with Tulip and the aftereffects of her resurrection. Pretty quick introduction and elimination of Jesse's parents, although the family dynamic is nonetheless well handled. At this point the matter of Christ's resurrection feels less tied in than I'd hoped, but I'm hoping to see a nice dialogic handling of religion here soon.

American Born Chinese utilizes the form less than I would have liked, but the central idea of the book is fairly well integrated and the triangulation receives a solid payoff. The core ideas are nothing too advanced for a young adult audience, but the way in which Gene Luen Yang orchestrates the events make up for the basic message about ethnic tolerance and acceptance of one's heritage.

[number8]

He was actually specifically talking about Invisibles. He claimed that he wrote King Mob as himself, and suddenly whatever he wrote happening to King Mob started happening to him in real life. Which I don't see as being possible, but there you go.

Then again, he also claimed that he took LSD and a spaceship showed up on his rooftop, and that it was not a hallucination, it actually happened.

[dreamdead]

One of the things that is fueling my mad rush to read everything Morrison (it would be embarrassing at this point to admit exactly how many Morrison TPB's I've acquired since my last announcement) is that I REALLY want to read about Morrison. See what other people make of his work, approach, narratives, themes, etc. I've never forayed into critical discussions of comics before, but I think I'm starting to get a strong feel for the medium.

The International Journal of Comic Art (http://www.ijoca.com/)has several articles on his work, namely focused on the nature of narration and reality in his work. Additionally, this forthcoming (http://www.continuumbooks.com/books/detail.aspx?BookId=134277&SubjectId=1043&Subject2Id=1462)text promises to yield interesting angles on Morrison's subjects. I'm planning to review it for an academic comics journal after it comes out in late October, and I'd be happy to scan the Morrison article and get it to via email, if you'd want academic approaches...

[Sven]

The International Journal of Comic Art (http://www.ijoca.com/)has several articles on his work, namely focused on the nature of narration and reality in his work. Additionally, this forthcoming (http://www.continuumbooks.com/books/detail.aspx?BookId=134277&SubjectId=1043&Subject2Id=1462)text promises to yield interesting angles on Morrison's subjects. I'm planning to review it for an academic comics journal after it comes out in late October, and I'd be happy to scan the Morrison article and get it to via email, if you'd want academic approaches...

Ummm... yes? Sounds way cool. Let me know when that option approaches.

[Melville]

I REALLY want to read about Morrison. See what other people make of his work, approach, narratives, themes, etc.
A blogger named David Fiore (the only blogger I've ever really read) wrote a lot of interesting stuff about Morrison, particularly Animal Man. Some of it's compiled into a lengthy review here (http://blogcritics.org/books/article/grant-morrison-chas-truog-tom-grummett/). But be forewarned that everything he writes is from the perspective of Derrida, intersubjectivity, and Transcendentalism; sometimes he seems to be wildly overreaching in his application of his theories.

[ledfloyd]

If you still lived near me, I'd let you borrow my copy of the Disinformation DVD set. The special feature has the full video of Morrison, drunk as fuck, talking from a podium to an audience of conspiracy theorists for a full hour, Guinness in hand, about the power of writing fiction as a form of casting spells, turning them into reality. And LSD.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6148569602584070911#

must see.

[number8]

Oh, hey, awesome.

[D_Davis]

Read this again yesterday....

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs313.ash1/27830_1501313613252_1246533443 _31466074_1373946_n.jpg


Always stunned by its brilliance.

[number8]

Slightly off-topic, but Disinfo really rocks.

[lovejuice]

Does anyone know a good book on surrealism and comic? I am planning on doing a research linking Thai comics to the art of surrealists.

[Winston*]

Anyone read Michael Kupperman? Reading this Tales to Thrizzle atm. Good stuff.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3305/3618112942_38c46c3605_o.jpg

[EyesWideOpen]

Anyone read Michael Kupperman? Reading this Tales to Thrizzle atm. Good stuff.



I've read a bunch of his stuff online and yeah his comedy is right up my alley. I have the Tales to Thrizzle book being shipped to me right now.

[Sven]

Finished The Invisibles. I was worried the ending wouldn't satisfy, but despite the last issue being almost entirely incomprehensible (on the first read here), I must say that I am still feeling pretty uplifted by the whole thing. There is so much going on I'm not going to pretend I understood even a quarter of it.

I'm halfway done with Seven Soldiers of Victory now, which has so far been excellent (Simone Bianchi's art is stunning). After that, I'll likely execute a few of his single-issue story things, like A Mystery Play, etc. Ooooo, exciting.

[Thirdmango]

Just read Lost at Sea and liked it a lot. I'm glad O'Malley can do more then just Scott Pilgrim.

[Grouchy]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6148569602584070911#

must see.
Amazing. Thank you for posting that.

I'm a big fan of Why I Hate Saturn too and Kyle Baker in general.

[bac0n]

Anybody following any of the new Avengers titles? I picked up both Avengers and Secret Avengers and I am rather pleased with both, the Avengers particularly - it seems to be shooting for the mid 80s vibe where they were battling super duper powerful villains that I liked so much.

Appearances by Kang always put a smile on my face.

[Acapelli]

liked avengers. looking forward to seeing bendis's take on a cosmic level avengers team. and if captain britain is the final member it'll just be icing on the cake

wasn't as hot on brubaker's secret avengers though, i'll give it a few more issues, but i much preferred the new thunderbolts

[Sycophant]

Just read Lost at Sea and liked it a lot. I'm glad O'Malley can do more then just Scott Pilgrim.

I really need to read this.

[EyesWideOpen]

I really need to read this.

It's really good. They just reprinted it a month or so ago so it should be easy to find.

[Sven]

Just nabbed all four issues of Flex Mentallo on eBay. I'm very excited for it, having just finished Flex's arc in The Doom Patrol. I love his character, and Quitely's the artist, so I have faith that it will be worth the more-than-I-would-normally-spend-on-it price.

[Acapelli]

whoa how much did you pay for them?

and have you read his batman yet? currently re-reading (again) his run from the beginning and i think it may be his best work

[Spun Lepton]

Alan Moore is doing a series called Necronomicon, based on Lovecraft's works. Too much win for one exclamation point!!!!!!!!!!

http://io9.com/5557716/alan-moores-cthulhu-comic-is-coming-gird-brain-for-explosion

[Sven]

whoa how much did you pay for them?

60 bucks, after shipping. As I said, a bit steep, but I'm confident.


and have you read his batman yet? currently re-reading (again) his run from the beginning and i think it may be his best work

I've read Gotham Asylum, which is one of the best comic books out there (I'm shocked at how many people don't like it). The rest I have, but am going to wait until I'm done with his X-Men. Then I'll probably take out his JLA, of which I've read about a third, and continue on to the whole Final Crisis thing.

[Acapelli]

and continue on to the whole Final Crisis thing.
well i think before you tackle final crisis, you should read until batman r.i.p., as i believe that his last rites two parter is pretty essential reading for the event (as is superman beyond and submit to a much lesser extent)

and spun, neonomicon is the sequel to the adaptation of his story the courtyard, which i recommend reading before it comes out

[Grouchy]

Alan Moore is doing a series called Necronomicon, based on Lovecraft's works. Too much win for one exclamation point!!!!!!!!!!

http://io9.com/5557716/alan-moores-cthulhu-comic-is-coming-gird-brain-for-explosion
IA! IA! CTHULHU! FHTAGN!

IA! IA! CTHULHU! FHTAGN!

[Sven]

well i think before you tackle final crisis, you should read until batman r.i.p., as i believe that his last rites two parter is pretty essential reading for the event (as is superman beyond and submit to a much lesser extent)

Yes. I meant to imply that I was going to read his Batman books before Final Crisis. I'm not too interested in Crisis lore, though, which has confounded me on more than one occasion while reading his stuff (Seven Soldiers of Victory, Animal Man, etc.). But that's alright. I just don't want to end up having to read, like, twenty different stories in order to understand one.

[Acapelli]

well i think as long as you stick to morrison's tie-ins, you'll be fine. it's not necessary to read any other tie-ins besides the ones i mentioned, which is an additional 5 issues on top of the 7 that make up final crisis

dc universe #0 might help too, as morrison contributed to it

[Grouchy]

It's kind of crazy to think that Morrison is basically running the DC Universe these days.

I'm not reading Final Crisis, though. I stopped caring about DC continuity when they re-wrote Superman's Definitive Origin #37.

[Grouchy]

I was reading this Claremont/Miller classic Wolverine comic, where he goes to Japan and marries Mariko, and I found a funny wee goof. Logan's voice-over says "Daughter of one of the noblest, richest, most powerful families in Japan, she can trace her lineage back almost 2000 years. Me, I know my father - that's as far as it goes".

Yeah, except he doesn't.

[Acapelli]

It's kind of crazy to think that Morrison is basically running the DC Universe these days.

I'm not reading Final Crisis, though. I stopped caring about DC continuity when they re-wrote Superman's Definitive Origin #37.
well morrison and johns (and now straczynski since he'll be writing wonder woman and superman)

and superman secret origin is one of dc's best titles. can definitely see it being one of my favorite comics after it's all said and done

[number8]

Anyone follow Gail Simone on twitter? She was on a rant just now about how much she loathes The Killing Joke, and Leah Moore replied with "Dad hates it too."

I've always heard that to be the case, but cool to hear a confirmation of it.

[Sven]

I was way underwhelmed by The Killing Joke.

[number8]

I realized that what I really like about that book is Brian Bolland's art.

[EyesWideOpen]

I like everything about Killing Joke except for the ending which is about as out of character as any characterization of Batman has ever been.

It turn Barbara Gordon into Oracle which made her into a far better character and more important to the DCU.

[number8]

It turn Barbara Gordon into Oracle which made her into a far better character and more important to the DCU.

This is what Simone was arguing too. It didn't. Ostrander and Yale were appalled by The Killing Joke and decided to fix Moore's mistake by making her the awesome Oracle.

Moore and the DC bullpen didn't have anything planned for her, and Barbara Gordon's exit would've been as a cardboard plot device (who doesn't even get her own scene) for a story that Alan Moore renounced because it really isn't about anything at all. When I think about it, the set-up and ending of the book seem to suggest that it's a story about Batman and Joker's relationship, but it doesn't end up saying anything about it. Arkham Asylum, and even DKR, both have way more to say about those two's relationship.

But anyway, crediting The Killing Joke for Oracle does seem a bit grotesque. Or in Simone's words: "That's like praising a car crash for the plastic surgery that came after."

[EyesWideOpen]

I didn't mean that Moore meant for that to happen. I just mean that it was in the long run good for the character. Yes other people are what made her into Oracle but that happened because they had to deal with what Moore did to her. I'm sure at the time I would have been appalled but Barbara Gordon/Batgirl is nowhere near as interesting as Barbara Gordon/Oracle. She's in my top five comic book characters.

If Moore would have let's say killed her off then I'm sure she would have been brought to life as Batgirl a couple times by now.

[bac0n]

Alan Moore is doing a series called Necronomicon, based on Lovecraft's works. Too much win for one exclamation point!!!!!!!!!!

http://io9.com/5557716/alan-moores-cthulhu-comic-is-coming-gird-brain-for-explosion

Put it on my pull-list yesterday. And for the record, the title is Neomonicon. Not Necro. Neo.

[ledfloyd]

reading grant morrison one issue at a time is the path to fucking madness.

[Grouchy]

Killing Joke is great. Moore's rejection of it as I understand it has more to do with the fact that, for non-Batman fans, the points raised in the book about his relationship with the Joker aren't all that relevant. But besides the artwork, it's wonderful writing. And yes, Moore didn't create Oracle, but he facilitated other people's inspiration by disposing of a silly character. Barbara Gordon's Batgirl is silly. Read Batgirl: Year One and see the pains Chuck Dixon has to go through to make her believable for modern readers, and it doesn't quite work.

And by the way, a while back I posted an Amazon wishlist that I only just changed around and bought. I got:

All Star Superman 1-2
Death of Superman
The Dark Phoenix Saga
Swamp Thing Vols. 4-5 (A Murder of Crows / Earth to Earth)

[Sven]

reading grant morrison one issue at a time is the path to fucking madness.

I thought about giving it a go, but realized quickly that my mind could not take it.

[megladon8]

And by the way, a while back I posted an Amazon wishlist that I only just changed around and bought. I got:

All Star Superman 1-2
Death of Superman
The Dark Phoenix Saga
Swamp Thing Vols. 4-5 (A Murder of Crows / Earth to Earth)


Wow, that's quite an awesome haul, Grouchy.

I'm sorry, I've totally forgotten, have you read "All-Star Superman" yet?

[Grouchy]

Wow, that's quite an awesome haul, Grouchy.

I'm sorry, I've totally forgotten, have you read "All-Star Superman" yet?
No, that's a blind buy although I'm confident it's awesome.

Everything else I've read but didn't own.

[ledfloyd]

I thought about giving it a go, but realized quickly that my mind could not take it.
yeah, i just tried reading the second issue of the return of bruce wayne and realized i had forgotten nearly everything that happened in issue one. what you sorta remember from a month ago is not enough to make due in grant morrison's world.

[Acapelli]

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs50/i/2009/289/a/5/Futurama_X_Men_Meld_by_gottabe carl.jpg

excellent execution

[Sven]

Just finished New X-Men:

Love Beak. Am totally miffed at the Xorn/Magneto twist. Though it was a cool story, I thought Xorn was a totally rad character concept and was an awesome addition to their crew. I loved the final four issue distant future story best. The whole time I was waiting for the series to really shift into whacked-out-Morrison mode. It was hinted at a few times, occasionally quite strongly, but I guess he was saving it all up for the end. A few aggravating dips in logic I find typical of X-Men, regardless of author. Phil Jimenez, whom I have seen before, impressed me greatly.

[Acapelli]

yeah the xorn/magneto thing was the sole low point in an otherwise excellent run. i could see where he was coming from with it, but i just couldn't buy it

[Grouchy]

Agreed. That shoudn't have happened.

[number8]

I'm still convinced that he didn't plan that from the beginning and just pulled that twist out of his hallucinating ass. The real tragedy, though, isn't that it didn't make sense. it was that Xorn was awesome.

[Sven]

I'm still convinced that he didn't plan that from the beginning and just pulled that twist out of his hallucinating ass. The real tragedy, though, isn't that it didn't make sense. it was that Xorn was awesome.

This is precisely my frustration.

[megladon8]

Grant Morrison is quite possibly my favorite writer working today.

I don't think I've read anything by him that I would qualify as a complete and utter failure. Even his misfirings have something incredibly original and thought-provoking about them.

[EyesWideOpen]

I don't think I've read anything by him that I would qualify as a complete and utter failure. Even his misfirings have something incredibly original and thought-provoking about them.

This is kind of a weird statement. I could say that about the majority of the writers I like.

[megladon8]

This is kind of a weird statement. I could say that about the majority of the writers I like.


I don't see what's weird about it.

There are plenty of writers I like who have done at least one or two things that were just bad.

Same goes for filmmakers, musicians, etc.

[EyesWideOpen]

I don't see what's weird about it.

There are plenty of writers I like who have done at least one or two things that were just bad.

Same goes for filmmakers, musicians, etc.


It is incredibly rare that any writer/director/musician that I really like makes something that I consider "a complete and utter failure".

[megladon8]

It is incredibly rare that any writer/director/musician that I really like makes something that I consider "a complete and utter failure".


I really like Alan Moore, but I thought "Judgment Day" was a 1/10 piece of crap.

And I really like Jeph Loeb but his recent Hulk stuff is awful.

Garth Ennis - "Fury".

Warren Ellis - "Crooked Little Vein".

I think it's incredibly rare that someone has absolutely no missteps in their career.

[EyesWideOpen]

I really like Alan Moore, but I thought "Judgment Day" was a 1/10 piece of crap.

And I really like Jeph Loeb but his recent Hulk stuff is awful.

Garth Ennis - "Fury".

Warren Ellis - "Crooked Little Vein".

I think it's incredibly rare that someone has absolutely no missteps in their career.

A "misstep" or "something I didn't care for" is alot different in my mind then "a complete and utter failure". I've only read 1 comic book this year that I would put into that category.

[dreamdead]

I really like Alan Moore, but I thought "Judgment Day" was a 1/10 piece of crap.


I liked the idea of Judgment Day, though certainly more for the back-stories than for the central murder plot, which repeats Watchmen's central conceits and without the psychological underpinning. But many of the envisioning of past heroes, and the adjacent art, was interesting enough. Of course, that's all countered by Liefeld's inability to raise his artwork to a level that could equal Moore's good work.

In other news, Pride of Baghdad was good but likely forgettable fare in its coverage of Iraq politics, precisely because of its refusal to engage in any human aspect of the war. Even though that certainly isn't the creators' intentions, it nonetheless ends with a whimper, as the subversive nihilistic ending feels too rote (or maybe I've just read too much Ellis, and was expecting a move like this one), even if true to "history." It's the first of Vaughan's that I've read; might circle back to him at some later point, but it doesn't resonate with the power or vitality of the best of the form, though I like the idea of the book, and how it could be paired with some of Orwell's work effectively in a classroom...

"Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" is early Moore, and though Swan's artwork looks terrific. The ending, I think, certifies my ambivalence, as that kind of wink-wink moment annoys me more than it feels like a capstone moment. I do think the refusal to eulogize the deaths of Lana and Jimmy is an interesting decision, as their deaths are handled more matter-of-factly than I expected. I liked that decision, but too much of the story felt less than transcendent. Maybe it was just my expectations.

[Grouchy]

http://www.colorsbymal.com/images/portfolio/pinups/full/Superman-Quitely.png

Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow might be my favorite Superman story. Just fucking epic, dude.

And continuing with the Man of Steel, I already received my comics and read All Star Superman. Incredibly uplifting love song to the superhero. But what strikes me as great is Frank Quitely's art. I already loved the guy, but with this comic he has entered into the hall of the all-time greats. The coloring is also great. My favorite of the twelve issues? Probably the one about Luthor's interview, but the Jimmy Olsen one was also good. I loved how Morrison approached the implausibilities of Superman (specially the Silver Age version) by stressing them. He's the Last Son of Krypton but there are a lot of other Kryptonian characters around. In fact, almost every issue showcases a character who is either another Kryptonian or through some device equals Superman's power. And don't get me started on his version of Clark Kent. This is the first time I've been convinced by a comic-book that a suit and glasses are a perfect disguise.

My re-reading of The Death of Superman was also fun. Not a very good comic, really, and Jon Bogdanove is a crap artist, but it was fun as a time capsule to the early '90s, which were the first comics I ever read. Hard to believe the line-up of the Justice League of America at this time was:

Blue Beetle
Booster Gold
Fire
Ice
Yellow Lantern Guy Gardner
Maxima
Bloodwynd

[bac0n]

So, all this talk of Frank Quitely, and seeing examples of his pretty stunning artwork have me chomping at the bit to check out some of his work.

Anyone have any recommendations on where to start?

[number8]

Might as well start with All-Star Superman.

[Sven]

We3's art is the definition of virtuosic.

[Grouchy]

Witness the bizarre glory of the twisting comic-book panel:

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources. com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/Quitely%203.JPG

He also draws a really sexy Lois Lane:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__QjThV_yxaA/R_43vuxwbgI/AAAAAAAAAdc/9pLVtgRBhwc/s1600/Lois%2BLane%2B%235%2B(%27All-Star%2BSuperman%27).jpg

The page I got the last picture from has to be seen to be believed. And this coming from someone who freely admits having a foot fetish.

[dreamdead]

We3's art is the definition of virtuosic.

How's the story? I thought about doing this before trying The Invisibles, but wonder what my apathy toward this will be if I was left cold by The Filth.

[Ezee E]

So, meg and K-Fan, thanks for the raves for Blankets. Checked that out at the library, and went through 100 pages in one sitting. Love it.

Probably would've read the whole thing, but I had a soccer game.

[Sven]

How's the story? I thought about doing this before trying The Invisibles, but wonder what my apathy toward this will be if I was left cold by The Filth.

Hmmm... well, The Invisibles is much more Filth-like, though I have to admit to not understanding being left cold by The Filth, which was my own maiden foray into Morrison territory and which I thought was fantastic. The story in We3 is very simple. Incredible Journey-esque. Three animals that have been trained to be highly lethal weapons break loose and try to journey home with the military on their trail. Nice spin on an old classic. And if you don't like it, well... it's short, and the artwork is at least incredible.

[number8]

Yeah, it's basically a gory Homeward Bound.

[Sven]

Just finished Gothic. Wow. Wasn't expecting that. Definitely up there.

[number8]

The Batman story?

[Sven]

The Batman story?

Yeah. It was way good. I loved the artwork particularly, but the story itself had a few nice flourishes that caught me by surprise.

[number8]

I liked it a lot, but it uses a contrived Batman trope I really hate, which is putting an important event on the day the Waynes died.

I mean, seriously, if we're to take all of them into canon, before going to watch Mark of Zorro, Bruce came home from boarding school, broke a favorite toy, hung out with Tommy Elliot, had Alice's Adventures in Wonderland read by his mom, fought with his dad, told his parents he hated them, and god knows what else I forgot. So overused.

My favorite, though, is the Brave and the Bold version where they die on Christmas Eve, explaining Batman's hatred for the holidays.

[Sycophant]

New Darkwing Duck comic book is just about perfect.

[Sven]

I liked it a lot, but it uses a contrived Batman trope I really hate, which is putting an important event on the day the Waynes died.

I actually like it when different authors shape character mythologies differently by redefining shared, pivotal moments like this. Seems like the right way to offer variation, rather than relying on a shared emotional context.

[Acapelli]

nah, it just seems kinda lazy

[Acapelli]

also, "zorro in arkham" is probably one of my favorite comics moments ever

[bac0n]

All Star Superman Vol 1 has been ordered. w00t!

[dreamdead]

Finally got around to Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns. It holds its own better than I'd thought it would (I have seldom enjoyed his work post DKR, so I didn't expect to enjoy this one), and the basic duel between the ideologies of Superman and Batman are substantiated smoothly and grappled with in a nicely pluralistic way. The art isn't my cup of tea, consisting of crude figures that, though it might operate as a commentary on how we view these people, nonetheless feels rushed. That said, I like much of the open panel design, with the information age continually grounding the world and offering a multifaceted opinion of heroism.

[Sven]

dd, if somewhere down the line, you stop at The Dark Knight Strikes Again, be sure to post your reaction to it. That thing is nuts. Completely, anarchically nuts. Craziest thing I've ever read.

[number8]

Great. I work literally three short blocks away from Midtown Comics and today they have Bendis, Brubaker and Fraction signing. I don't have any of my comics with me.

[Acapelli]

Great. I work literally three short blocks away from Midtown Comics and today they have Bendis, Brubaker and Fraction signing. I don't have any of my comics with me.
where do you usually get your comics that you didn't hear about this before?

[number8]

I've fallen behind on my weeklies because I was left broke my the move to New York. I'm hesitant about skipping several issues of my favorite titles, so I'm trying to rebuild slowly.

In any case, there are a couple of small comic shops in Brooklyn near me. I've never really warmed up to Midtown. For being so big, they could at least offer discounts to subscribers.

[Sven]

In any case, there are a couple of small comic shops in Brooklyn near me. I've never really warmed up to Midtown. For being so big, they could at least offer discounts to subscribers.

Have you check out Bergen Street Comics? It's right by the Bergen 2 stop. Pretty new. It's a'ight.

[megladon8]

I've fallen behind on my weeklies because I was left broke my the move to New York. I'm hesitant about skipping several issues of my favorite titles, so I'm trying to rebuild slowly.

In any case, there are a couple of small comic shops in Brooklyn near me. I've never really warmed up to Midtown. For being so big, they could at least offer discounts to subscribers.


They do.

For every $100 you spend you get $20 off anything in the store.

[number8]

That's a purchase discount, not a subscriber discount.

At my old store, if you open a pull list with them, all your comics are 22% off. In my experience, it's pretty standard for stores to give those pull list discounts, even if it's as low as 10%. Mine was the most generous I've come across.

[number8]

Also, I hate their Times Sq location. It's so small, but always ludicrously packed on Wednesdays. Can't even move in peace, let alone browse.

[number8]

I still dream of owning a comic shop bar/lounge like The Isotope (http://isotopecomics.com/). By far the best comic shop I've ever had the pleasure of frequenting. If any of you ever visit SF, please give them your business.

[bac0n]

I'll be in the neighborhood in middle July. What's the parking like around there?

[number8]

I'll be in the neighborhood in middle July. What's the parking like around there?

As I recall it, plenty of open lots. It's near tons of restaurants and brunch places. There may be street parking. I don't really pay attention to that kind of stuff.

[Acapelli]

They do.

For every $100 you spend you get $20 off anything in the store.
this is pretty much the main reason i shop there now

[bac0n]

As I recall it, plenty of open lots. It's near tons of restaurants and brunch places. There may be street parking. I don't really pay attention to that kind of stuff.

Hrm! We're flying in at 9am local time, which means we'll be out of the airport and in the area around 10am, an hour before it opens. If there's a brunch joint nearby, we could throw down a plate of eggs over there and then stop by when the place opens before heading up to Sonoma. Speaking of which - any brunch restaurant recommendations around there?

[number8]

Hrm! We're flying in at 9am local time, which means we'll be out of the airport and in the area around 10am, an hour before it opens. If there's a brunch joint nearby, we could throw down a plate of eggs over there and then stop by when the place opens before heading up to Sonoma. Speaking of which - any brunch restaurant recommendations around there?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=stacks+restaurant&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=43.528905,67.675781&ie=UTF8&hq=stacks+restaurant&hnear=&ll=37.776685,-122.424774&spn=0.170416,0.264359&z=12&cid=14414166951104337784&iwloc=A

[megladon8]

Also, I hate their Times Sq location. It's so small, but always ludicrously packed on Wednesdays. Can't even move in peace, let alone browse.


Times Square location is small?

Are you sure we've been to the same place?

That's the biggest comic book store I've ever been to.

[number8]

Oh. It's not so much small as it is narrow, I guess. I mean, if you compare it to a mom-and-pop size shops, sure, but compared to the other big retailers... I dunno, I've been to bigger ones in LA and the Bay Area.

[megladon8]

Oh. It's not so much small as it is narrow, I guess. I mean, if you compare it to a mom-and-pop size shops, sure, but compared to the other big retailers... I dunno, I've been to bigger ones in LA and the Bay Area.


I like their selection a lot more than other stores I've found. I really wasn't impressed with Forbidden Planet. It felt to me like a comic store for hipsters. I expected to be scoffed at if I asked where all the Superman books were.

Plus, Midtown has a great porn section.

[number8]

It felt to me like a comic store for hipsters.

Racist.

[Acapelli]

if there was a comic store for hipsters (looks wise), i would say rocketship would be it, but the people that run it are some of the nicest i've ever met in a shop. i have pretty much fallen out of love with forbidden planet though. it's pretty much the last place i go now and will only stop by if i'm in the area

as for walking around wise, i prefer jim hanley's to all, they've got a really wide selection of big two and indie stuff and their layout is optimal for browsing

[EyesWideOpen]

I'd still highly recommend DCBS for anyone who doesn't mind waiting a couple weeks to get your new releases. My current month's order I got $240 worth of comics/trades/hc's for $115. Last month's order I got $500 worth of stuff for $230.

[number8]

It's getting closer...

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/06/23/dc-comics-digital-big-deal/

[number8]

Marvel Entertainment announced that they're building a TV division, for both live-action and animated shows. They put Jeph Loeb in charge.

Doom be upon us.

[bac0n]

Marvel Entertainment announced that they're building a TV division, for both live-action and animated shows. They put Jeph Loeb in charge.

Doom be upon us.

So, let the speculation as to which superheroes would (or should) get a series begin!

[number8]

Power Pack saturday morning cartoon is a no-brainer.

[Ezee E]

Finished Blankets and was left wanting more. I really wanted to see what direction he'd have gone in. Good stuff, even if he was a bit of a whiner.

[megladon8]

I really hate the new Wonder Woman costume.

[EyesWideOpen]

I really hate the new Wonder Woman costume.

I don't, I think it looks fine and they needed to do something to get people talking about Wonder Woman for the relaunch and it's working.

[dreamdead]

I found Kingdom Come surprisingly enjoyable. Some of the mythology gets a little tedious as it sometimes becomes too much exposition for the preacher and not enough showing, but the last chapter and epilogue (as well as the appearances of Phil at the restaurant) were nicely done. Wonderful closing line, too.

Morrison's Animal Man run starts off average, displays a knowing knack for subverting genre conventions, and by the third volume has just absolutely hammered home a sense of nostalgia and subversive energy that counters the grittiness that that era of comics had internalized. It's such a wonderful last issue, exposing its own constructed nature so fully that it goes from cliche to masterful before it's two or three pages in, and it also possesses the mastery of hammering out an amazing final image, much like Moore's Promethea does. My desire to get into Doom Patrol and Invisibles has now jumped up tremendously.

[Sven]

I found Kingdom Come surprisingly enjoyable. Some of the mythology gets a little tedious as it sometimes becomes too much exposition for the preacher and not enough showing, but the last chapter and epilogue (as well as the appearances of Phil at the restaurant) were nicely done. Wonderful closing line, too.

Hmmm. I kind of hated this. I thought the panel work was non-sensical. I couldn't follow the action much of the time. Ross seems more concerned about rendering detail.


Morrison's Animal Man run starts off average, displays a knowing knack for subverting genre conventions, and by the third volume has just absolutely hammered home a sense of nostalgia and subversive energy that counters the grittiness that that era of comics had internalized. It's such a wonderful last issue, exposing its own constructed nature so fully that it goes from cliche to masterful before it's two or three pages in, and it also possesses the mastery of hammering out an amazing final image, much like Moore's Promethea does. My desire to get into Doom Patrol and Invisibles has now jumped up tremendously.

So awesome. I'm just about done with his JLA stuff. Then: Final Crisis!

[number8]

I don't, I think it looks fine and they needed to do something to get people talking about Wonder Woman for the relaunch and it's working.

It doesn't help that so far the only argument I've heard for it is that it's no longer patriotic. Yeah, ok.

I like that it reminds me of Wonder Girl's Young Justice costume.

[megladon8]

Remember when they tried to re-launch Superman and they changed his costume to get everyone talking?

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1110/newsuperman.jpg


This feels very, very similar.

[EyesWideOpen]

Remember when they tried to re-launch Superman and they changed his costume to get everyone talking?

This feels very, very similar.

Well yeah not every costume change works but their have been costume change/updates for almost every comic book character and a ton were well received or still being used (Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Catwoman, Batgirl, Wolverine, Spider-Man, etc).

[number8]

Great examples there.

[Grouchy]

I like that Spiderman's custome has been slightly updated almost constantly since the character was created.

[megladon8]

Well yeah not every costume change works but their have been costume change/updates for almost every comic book character and a ton were well received or still being used (Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Catwoman, Batgirl, Wolverine, Spider-Man, etc).


Most of these were fairly minor changes, though.

Batman still looks, more or less, the way he did in '39. Spider-Man also still looks pretty much the same, aside from the gradual minor changes that have occurred in the character's costume for years.

And hell, I don't even want to argue tradition because change is great.

I just think the new WW costume is balls.

[Acapelli]

what about the black spidey costume?

that was pretty awesome

[number8]

So, Alan Moore supposedly quit comics. Doesn't sound very definitive, though.

http://www.sfx.co.uk/2010/07/04/alan-moores-farewell-to-the-%20comics-industry/

[Grouchy]

So, Alan Moore supposedly quit comics. Doesn't sound very definitive, though.

http://www.sfx.co.uk/2010/07/04/alan-moores-farewell-to-the-%20comics-industry/
Seems like he's talking about the Lost craze in the last paragraph. Whatever, it's a temper tantrum. I do appreciate that he called the publishers "sub-human cowards".

[number8]

Seems like he's talking about the Lost craze in the last paragraph.

I don't understand where you or the people in the comments got this.

[Grouchy]

I don't understand where you or the people in the comments got this.
Well, I've never actually seen a whole episode of Lost, but I've heard a lot of people talk about it, and it doesn't seem like a whole lot of the plot is planned in advance.

[BuffaloWilder]

It's about half and half - they had the broad strokes down, but all of the smaller things they filled in as they went along.

Why is it that, despite how much I love the guy's work, whenever I read an interview with Moore I just want to punch him in the dick?

[number8]

I got the impression that Moore was talking about shows that are prolonged endlessly out of success alone, without a definitive set-upon story ending in place. The LOST producers actually negotiated with ABC for an ending years in advance, precisely to make sure that won't happen to their show, and to be able to start building up to that ending. So that's actually an example of the exact opposite of what Moore's talking about.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, I'd say he's generalizing TV more than picking out on TV show in particular.

[number8]

Oh, and he's not exactly wrong in his comments about the comics industry. I don't agree that that spells the end of the industry, that's just his bias, but his observations are spot-on.

[megladon8]

Totally unrelated to the Alan Moore story (just so nothing gets confused)...


After a conversation today with a customer, I think I am now officially on D_Davis' side when it comes to discussing comics/comic characters with hardcore fans - don't bother.

I can't remember the last time I had such a maddening, offensively condescending and just all-round unpleasant conversation with someone. He refused to even entertain the idea that there are people out there who like things different from what he likes about characters like Batman, Spider-Man, the X-Men, etc.

I almost wish I could blame it on the stereotype that comic book nerds are borderline asbergers-level social rejects, but no, sometimes being a dick is just being a dick.

[Sven]

Peter Milligan's writing is exceptionally awful. I'm taken aback that his name is bandied about with the greats sometimes.

[Sven]

However, I am now a few chapters into Crisis on Infinite Earths and it is totally badass. The colors are popping, the humor is witty, the panels are tight and creative... Class act. Can't wait to read the rest.

[Grouchy]

Well, Crisis on Infinite Earths is definitively the best of its kind, but that "kind" doesn't really appeal to me. The artwork is a glory to behold.

I realize I haven't really read anything significant by Peter Milligan but for a Riddler story in Batman (Dark Knight, Dark City (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources. com/2010/04/13/comics-you-should-own-flashback-batman-452-454/)) which disturbed the fuck out of me as a kid. That was good stuff, I think.

[number8]

I quite like Shade the Changing Man.

[Acapelli]

Peter Milligan's writing is exceptionally awful. I'm taken aback that his name is bandied about with the greats sometimes.
nope

as 8 said, there's shade, rogan gosh, enigma, his human target, his x-force/x-statix run, and more recently, greek street

unlike grant morrison, he does a ton of work for hire stuff, which may bring down the overall quality of his work. he's sort of like lapham in that way

[Acapelli]

well actually greek street probably doesn't belong on the list, but it's a recent series that i happen to like (even though it took me a second read through to appreciate it)

[Sycophant]

How cool is it that the dude who draws Darkwing Duck has a blog?

http://silvaniart.blogspot.com/

Also, show creator Tad Stones has made a comment on it.

Geeking the fuck out.

[bac0n]

Okay, I'm half-way through Volume 2 of All-Star Superman, and Morrison/Quitely have made a believer out of me. Specifically, the below panels are as good as any I have seen, ever:

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/aaron_boruque/AllStar-Superman-013.jpg

[number8]

God, I fucking love Superman.

[Sven]

I really love the sun-eater. Probably my favorite part of that series, along with Jimmy Olson, along with the last issue, along with the rest.

[megladon8]

I really love the sun-eater. Probably my favorite part of that series, along with Jimmy Olson, along with the last issue, along with the rest.


That's awesome to hear.

Superman really does have some of the greatest comic stories ever. I love him to death.

[bac0n]

Yeah, the Sun-Eater was awesome. Also, the Bizarro National Anthem.

That was genius.

[Sven]

I would just like to reiterate how much I'm loving Crisis on Infinite Earths. Every page, every panel dazzles me in the way that so far few have been able to consistently accomplish.

It's nice to be reminded that there are others out there beside Grant Morrison.

[Acapelli]

well yeah, george perez rules

[Sven]

well yeah, george perez rules

You must bear with me. Things that you can take for granted as given truths I am just now discovering. I feel like that guy who is just about to watch his second Kurosawa film. I've got the taste, and I can see now what the medium is capable of accomplishing and I'm nervous and thrilled at the prospect of a world of new, worthwhile material.

I'm not exactly inexperienced with comics. I've read quite a number (not even a percentage, I'm sure, of what you have read), but it is only now, so far from my adolescence, where comics were for those interested in escape (a fine pursuit, but rarely my interest), that I am beginning to see just how it all works.

[Acapelli]

i was just like you a few years ago. the great thing is that even now there is still so much i haven't read

picked up the first trade of geoff johns' teen titans run. wanna get through that and his flash run

[dreamdead]

Craig Thompson's Carnet de Voyage is interesting visually in its small moments about international travel and post-9/11 concerns, and some of the more impressionistic scenes are wonderful indeed. But it is still, as he acknowledges, merely a stop-gap. I appreciate his style more for having read it, though.

[megladon8]

I would just like to reiterate how much I'm loving Crisis on Infinite Earths. Every page, every panel dazzles me in the way that so far few have been able to consistently accomplish.

It's nice to be reminded that there are others out there beside Grant Morrison.


Awesome, dude! So glad you're enjoying that title. It's great, mind-bending DC lore at its finest.

I strongly suggest you check out the Jack Kirby "Fourth World" omnibuses. Incredible stuff.

[Sven]

I just finished the second TPB of George Perez's Wonder Woman run. I love it. I love the stories and the artwork so far.

"George Perez" and "awesome artwork" are synonymous terms.

OMG, this was on page 2 of this thread. History repeats itself! Time and space!

[Sven]

D'oh. I forgot the best part of the coincidence: jen's response


I'm a newbie, Daniel,

[Sven]

Research is not telling me if it would be fine to read Final Crisis without reading Infinite Crisis or Paul Dini's Countdown. I've heard "meh" about both, and I don't want to have to trudge through junk.

[Acapelli]

infinite crisis is ok, countdown is abysmal. you may have to do some research, but it's pretty easy to follow otherwise. just make sure to read all the morrison penned tie-ins

i would recommend reading 52 though. great great comics

[megladon8]

Agreed that "52" was great in many respects, but I don't know if it was just me (or perhaps my poor memory at work again) but I remember it being awfully confusing.

I heartily recommend just about anything in the DC universe by Geoff (I always forget if the 'o' or 'e' come first) Johns.

[EyesWideOpen]

Countdown is definitely not required reading and should not be read under any circumstance. You should be fine with Infinite Crisis, 52 and then Final Crisis. I'd recommend you read Identity Crisis before any of them though.

[Acapelli]

sinestro corps war is a ton of fun too

[megladon8]

Heck yes. The "Sinestro Corps War" is fantastic.

I've (finally) started reading Morrison/Quitely's "All-Star Batman & Robin" and it's great.

It doesn't quite have the magic of their "All-Star Superman", but it's still one of the better Batman books I've read lately.

[Acapelli]

don't you just mean "batman and robin." anyway they only did 3 issues together

you should really read the rest of morrison's batman run, otherwise you're missing out on a whole lot

[megladon8]

don't you just mean "batman and robin." anyway they only did 3 issues together

you should really read the rest of morrison's batman run, otherwise you're missing out on a whole lot


I thought it was called "All-Star Batman & Robin"?

[Acapelli]

nope, frank miller and jim lee are doing all star batman and robin

grant morrison's btaman and robin takes place in the dc universe proper

[megladon8]

nope, frank miller and jim lee are doing all star batman and robin

grant morrison's btaman and robin takes place in the dc universe proper


OK, yes, I remember now.

Sorry, brain-fart on my part.

[number8]

Tip:

Batman & Robin has the Dick Grayson Batman. All-Star Batman & Robin has the Goddamn Batman.

[number8]

Oh. My. God.

jUrQugHJtLg

[Sven]

you should really read the rest of morrison's batman run

Having just read Batman RIP, I highly endorse this comment. But for quality purposes, rather than narrative ones. It's crazy good, with an emphasis on crazy.

The Batman of Zur-En-Arrh destroyed my mind.

[EyesWideOpen]

Having just read Batman RIP, I highly endorse this comment. But for quality purposes, rather than narrative ones. It's crazy good, with an emphasis on crazy.

The Batman of Zur-En-Arrh destroyed my mind.

He's good at mining the past and taking stuff from the 50's in the case of your spoiler and bringing them in to the present. Most modern Batman writers try to remove the weird stuff from the Bat-verse and Morrison embraces it.

[Sven]

Morrison embraces it.

As well he should. The way he embraced and then twisted the entire universe in the Seven Soldiers of Victory series was mindblowing. Probably my favorite series of his. Love the bookending issues drawn by Williams III, who is one of my faves. They're on "the list."

[Acapelli]

Having just read Batman RIP, I highly endorse this comment. But for quality purposes, rather than narrative ones. It's crazy good, with an emphasis on crazy.

The Batman of Zur-En-Arrh destroyed my mind.
you've read batman from the start of his run, right?

anyway, his current storyline in batman and robin with frazer irving is supposed to be "r.i.p." as a farce. the first issue of which is probably the best issue of b&r yet

[Ivan Drago]

Oh. My. God.

jUrQugHJtLg

"The Noun, The Verb, The Adverb, and The Adjective!"

"Well...all the proper names are pretty much taken." :lol:

[Grouchy]

Heh, that was good stuff. Makes me want to read The Pro, although it seems like The Boys is pretty much the same shit, expanded.

[Sven]

you've read batman from the start of his run, right?

Yeah. Superb, but I really didn't care for many issues in the Ra's Al Ghul resurrection bit. All in all, a very disappointing arc. Morrison's chapters were cool, and a few here and there were neat, but yeah.

[number8]

That arc was shite because it's a crossover. I hate it when runs are interrupted by crossovers. Garth Ennis always had the right approach.

[Sven]

That arc was shite because it's a crossover. I hate it when runs are interrupted by crossovers. Garth Ennis always had the right approach.

Forgive me for asking for a few points of clarification:

)does 'crossover' just mean one arc, many writers?

)What exactly is Ennis's approach?

[number8]

Crossover is when a so-called "important story" is happening in the universe, so all the in-continuity books are usually forced by editorial to address it. Sometimes it spans across all books, like Infinite Crisis, and sometimes it's just a specific character's books, like all the Batman-related books for Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul. How it's handled differs from time to time, but usually the book's regular writer writes, so if I recall correctly, some chapters of Resurrection was by Morrison and some by Dini.

Garth Ennis' approach is always to refer to the event as minimal as possible, if he so happens to have an ongoing book in continuity. During Hitman, because it's set in Gotham, he was forced to recognize the big events, but he'd do something entirely unrelated. Like when the Sun-Eater thing was happening, all the other books were about the heroes dealing with that, but the Hitman crossover issue was just the characters holed up in a bar in the dark, telling each other stories and shrugging, "Eh, Superman will take care of it." Same deal with No Man's Land. Ennis did a vampire story that really has nothing to do with the quake at all, but set the battle in buildings destroyed by the quake.

[Sven]

Thx for the info, 8. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that Ras Al Ghul is considered a crossover because it combines different contained Batman narratives. Yes?

I tried starting Infinite Crisis, but even after two issues, I'm still confused. They really just throw you right in there. So I'm pausing that, and have moved onto The Flash and I'm loving it. A seamless blend of Morrison's craziness and Millar's lightness. Very infectious. The Mirror Master (my favorite Morrison stand-in) dividing the flash with a prism had me giggling for a long time.

[megladon8]

A crossover is when various different comic series' have issues intrinsic to the story, and you must read (see: buy) them all in order to fully understand the events.

For example, let's say there's a crossover story where Nightwing kills the Joker (just making this up, as an event that would probably be quite a big deal in the DC universe). You might have to buy issue 633 of "Batman", issue 232 of "Detective Comics", issue 175 of "Gotham Knights", and issues 1-6 of "Death of the Joker" to get the whole story.

It's pretty much a marketing ploy to get people to put more titles on their pull lists.

[number8]

Thx for the info, 8. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that Ras Al Ghul is considered a crossover because it combines different contained Batman narratives. Yes?

What did you read of it, anyway? Just Morrison's Batman run? Because that title only has the prologue and chapter 4 of the story. I'm not familiar with it in trade form, so I don't know if it's included in a collection of Morrison's run or if the whole story was released as a "Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul" trade.

[Sven]

What did you read of it, anyway? Just Morrison's Batman run? Because that title only has the prologue and chapter 4 of the story. I'm not familiar with it in trade form, so I don't know if it's included in a collection of Morrison's run or if the whole story was released as a "Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul" trade.

There's a trade that has the whole thing. Morrison and Dini are the big names on the cover even though there are only two issues apiece by them. I read all of it, but was completely disinterested 70% of the time.

[Acapelli]

it wasn't a very good story. dini has really fallen hard. i usually skip those issues when re-reading morrison's run

paul cornell doing a knight and squire mini is an absolute brilliant move by dc

[EyesWideOpen]

it wasn't a very good story. dini has really fallen hard. i usually skip those issues when re-reading morrison's run



Crazy talk. His run on Detective was one of the best Bat books in years and his Zatanna series is great as is Gotham City Sirens & Streets of Gotham (when he's writing it).

[Acapelli]

his detective stopped being good long before his run ended

never really got into gotham city sirens, but i mainly blame guillem march. streets of gotham was pretty good. just got to say that countdown is one of the worst comics to happen in the last few years and that's pretty much his fault

[Watashi]

Weird question, but is Geoff Johns gay?

[number8]

Are you asking because of the Gays in Comics Comic-Con panel? Not everyone on the panel are gay. They're just discussing LGBT characters in comics.

[number8]

Reading the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen wiki at work: always a bad idea. It can never be "just for 10 minutes."

[Sven]

Anyone here read Major Bummer? I'm thinking about working toward getting all 14 of those, but I'm not sure if that's opening up a world that I'd better leave closed. I get obsessive about things like this.

[Acapelli]

Anyone here read Major Bummer? I'm thinking about working toward getting all 14 of those, but I'm not sure if that's opening up a world that I'd better leave closed. I get obsessive about things like this.
http://www.mycomicshop.com/search?TID=104681

[Sven]

Just finished Infinite Crisis. Totally good, although I can't help but continue to be annoyed by narratives that are driven by tension created by young people being foolhardy and selfish. The evil Superboy got on my nerves, stock excuses and all. Still, solid read. Great artwork.

[Sven]

http://www.mycomicshop.com/search?TID=104681

What's the difference between VF and NM?

[Acapelli]

Just finished Infinite Crisis. Totally good, although I can't help but continue to be annoyed by narratives that are driven by tension created by young people being foolhardy and selfish. The evil Superboy got on my nerves, stock excuses and all. Still, solid read. Great artwork.
oh man i love evil superboy. such a twat. before getting into final crisis you should read 52 and sinestro corps war

vf is very fine, nm is near mint. near mint is "better," but either is completely readable. there's really no reason you should care though. i usually just go for the cheapest version

[Spaceman Spiff]

Finally picked up Werewolves of Montepellier. As usual, Jason is spot on with his quirky examinations of genre tropes while making them uniquely Jason-esque for lack of a better word. Loved it.

[Sven]

before getting into final crisis you should read 52 and sinestro corps war

Man. I just want to read Final Crisis!

But seriously, I will read these first. I'm picking up 52 possibly today, and the Sinestro Corps War has not until now been on my radar, but since the Green Lantern has now become, like, my second favorite DC Superhero (The Flash first, then him, then Plastic Man, probably), and Geoff Johns's writing was pretty impressive in Crisis, I will certainly pick those up as well.

Thanks for helping steer a bro right.

[number8]

Man. I just want to read Final Crisis!

Welcome to the frustrating and ensnaring world of comic fandom.

[Acapelli]

well you don't have to, but they're really good comics in their own right

plus morrison was responsible for a quarter of 52, that should give you more than enough reason to read it

[Sven]

well you don't have to, but they're really good comics in their own right

plus morrison was responsible for a quarter of 52, that should give you more than enough reason to read it

Got the first TPB today, along with a majority of Major Bummer (shop had a bunch in their basement... a buck a piece... sweet), some Alan Moore Swamp Thing, JLA: Earth 2 (can't wait for the fourth Deluxe collection), and the one issue of Morrison/Lee's Wildcats, which I'm sure will be hella confusing because I have no idea what Wildcats really even is.

[Acapelli]

where do you get comics? you're in brooklyn, right?

[Sven]

where do you get comics? you're in brooklyn, right?

Was. I have been in Seattle since March. I used to get from Bergen Street Comics because it was right by my house, and I'd order them from B&N because I work there.

[Sven]

http://www.mycomicshop.com/search?TID=104681

Thanks again, dude. $50+ order, a number of enticing reads on the way. God, I've become obsessed.

[Sven]

Ayuh, ayuh, 52 Vol 1 was tasty, mostly. Steel's niece suffers even more egregiously from the pukery that irritated me about evil Superboy in Infinite Crisis (maybe Johns worked on her too...?), but there are certain angles in play that will keep me reading. Doesn't feel very weighty, which is a bummer, though there is some adequately epic stuff with Animal Man & Co. w/the New Gods on that planet, which is easily my favorite story line so far.

An entertaining diversion.

[number8]

Haha, that's because the Animal Man storyline was Morrison's.

[dreamdead]

I very vaguely remember Major Bummer, buying it when it came out. It's fun stuff, especially the romance. If you've got the final issue, you can read one of those super-embarrassing letters to the editor that I got published where I super-rhapsodize about its wonder.

[Sven]

I very vaguely remember Major Bummer, buying it when it came out. It's fun stuff, especially the romance. If you've got the final issue, you can read one of those super-embarrassing letters to the editor that I got published where I super-rhapsodize about its wonder.

The rest of the issues are on the way, but I've only read 1 & 2 so far and I am WAY impressed at the union of story and artwork (Arcudi and Mahnke seem like a match made in heaven). The sense of comic timing and visual rhythm is practically perfect. I can't wait to read your letter.

[Sven]

Haha, that's because the Animal Man storyline was Morrison's.

I had no idea. :lol:

Is there any way to find out who was responsible for what? Googling hasn't helped, and the notes in the TPB are very vague about author contributions.

[number8]

I had no idea. :lol:

Is there any way to find out who was responsible for what? Googling hasn't helped, and the notes in the TPB are very vague about author contributions.

They never defined it because they didn't divide the work, and really all four collaborated on the scripts, but it's fairly easy to guess whose handiwork was which if you're familiar with all four's writing.

Morrison was the Animal Man stuff and the Batman training, which directly led directly to his Batman run.

Rucka was pretty much the whole Question/Batwoman/Crime Bible stuff, obviously, and the whole business with Ralph Dibny.

The Booster Gold/Supernova stuff is very Geoff Johns, as is the whole Will Magnus stuff.

Then I'll wager a guess that Mark Waid helmed the Natasha/Luthor/Everyman Project, as well as the Marvel family/Black Adam stuff.

[Acapelli]

morrison also contributed heavily to the magnus stuff on oolong island. and he created the great ten, big science action and super young team (who figure somewhat heavily into final crisis) here

anyway, i think the series is a huge success and will never be replicated

[Acapelli]

and mycomicshop is the best place to get back issues online for reasonable prices

[Sven]

Decided "eff it" and read Final Crisis. I had a physical response to its conclusion. I'm still somewhat verklempt.

[number8]

http://www.letsbefriendsagain.com/comics/2010-01-26.jpg

[Sven]

I <3 Major Bummer. So much.

[Sven]

Ridiculous: Just purchased:

Batman's 700 & 701
History of the DC Universe (Wolfman/Perez)
Batman & Robin: Batman Reborn (HC)
Saga of the Swamp Thing 2 & 3 (TPB)
Hellboy 7 (TPB)
Fifty Two, Vols 2 & 3
Ronin (Miller)
Moore's Complete WildC.A.T.S.
Life and Times of Martha Washington
Aztek, the Ultimate Man
Skrull Kill Krew
Best of Vampirella (Millar/Morrison collection)

That's not including my recent mycomicshop.com order, which is detailed here:

2000 AD 479 & 491
JLA Classified 1-3
JLA Secret Files 2
JLA: WWIII (TPB)
Major Bummer 9, 11-14
Marvel Knights Double Shot 2
Secret Origins 46 & 50
Swamp Thing 140-143

I have promised to my wife that I will not buy any more comics for the rest of the year. It was a necessary promise. Thankfully, I have enough recreation cash, but I will soon be broke if I keep this up.

[Acapelli]

haven't really heard any good things about moore's wildcats or skrull kill krew

[Sven]

haven't really heard any good things about moore's wildcats or skrull kill krew

Yeah, those two and a few others (Miller's stuff, particularly) were picked up more in the spirit of "Oh my hell, why not." I like what little of the WildCATS I've read, though. Like X-men, but less sacred. A little quirkier.

[Acapelli]

you should check out joe casey's wildcats. they'll be putting out new trades soon

also in the wildstorm universe, i don't know if you've ever read brubaker's sleeper, but it's one of the best comics i've ever read

[Sven]

Eesh. Pride of Baghdad was really, really bad. Fine expression in the faces, a few great backgrounds, but man, the script is terrible. The rhythm of the book is all wrong. It reads like a Saturday morning cartoon with its rushed episodes of inconsequential drama, reliance on too many words to describe the obvious, and near-absence of moments of contemplation. Big fat fail.

[number8]

I never thought that you would like any of BKV's work, to be honest.

[Ivan Drago]

Speaking of BKV, I find it awesome that he was a writer and co-producer on Lost (started watching a few weeks ago). Catch-22 in particular was a really good episode IMO.

[number8]

Does anyone else love Wormwood? I don't think I've ever liked a version of Jesus more than the one Ennis writes there.

[Sven]

In light of my recent promise to buy no more comics this year, I have to stop reading Preacher. I'm only in Vol 1, but it is too good and I want to buy it and read it all right now. So I'm putting it on the backburner. It's awful mighty damn good so far, though.

[number8]

In light of my recent promise to buy no more comics this year, I have to stop reading Preacher. I'm only in Vol 1, but it is too good and I want to buy it and read it all right now. So I'm putting it on the backburner. It's awful mighty damn good so far, though.

Once again, the old adage "if you were still in Brooklyn..." applies.

[Sven]

Once again, the old adage "if you were still in Brooklyn..." applies.

I need to be as far away from you as possible. You started all this.

[number8]

I need to be as far away from you as possible. You started all this.

Volume 1 to 9, crisp, in my living room right now.

[Grouchy]

In light of my recent promise to buy no more comics this year, I have to stop reading Preacher. I'm only in Vol 1, but it is too good and I want to buy it and read it all right now. So I'm putting it on the backburner. It's awful mighty damn good so far, though.
We all know that you will buy plenty more comics this year.

I say the sooner you stop lying to yourself the faster you'll read Preacher.

[Winston*]

Does anyone else love Wormwood? I don't think I've ever liked a version of Jesus more than the one Ennis writes there.

I'm reading this Wormwood:Gentleman Corpse atm. I gather that's a different Wormwood. How are there two different comics called Wormwood?

[EyesWideOpen]

I'm reading this Wormwood:Gentleman Corpse atm. I gather that's a different Wormwood. How are there two different comics called Wormwood?

Yeah that's pretty weird. There's an Avatar published book "Chronicles of Wormwood" and then the IDW series your reading.

[EyesWideOpen]

I re-read through all of Scott Pilgrim over the last few days. Such a great series. I had forgotten how sad Vol. 5 is. It's taking all my strength not to go down and buy volume 6 today even though I have it coming from DCBS.

[number8]

It's a name from the Bible. Although Ennis' use is far more fitting than Templesmith's.

[dreamdead]

Eesh. Pride of Baghdad was really, really bad. Fine expression in the faces, a few great backgrounds, but man, the script is terrible. The rhythm of the book is all wrong. It reads like a Saturday morning cartoon with its rushed episodes of inconsequential drama, reliance on too many words to describe the obvious, and near-absence of moments of contemplation. Big fat fail.

Yeah, I think the whole issue with contemplation is actually what bothers me most about that series. There's so much that can be done with animals who discover that they're free, but alternatives never seem to be considered. As such, there's the possibility that BKV is hinting at something to do with animalistic determinism, but that seems less likely than the reality that the page length restricted him from exploring all but the most facile of angles. It's an interesting concept (at least until the bear) but the execution is wrong.

Meantime, I've got Vol 1 of The Invisibles and Human Diastrophism (Love & Rockets) on their way today.

[megladon8]

Is there any chance that Alan Moore's "Miracleman" run could get reprinted sometime in the (perhaps near?) future?

[Acapelli]

seems like something marvel would announce at comic con

[EyesWideOpen]

Is there any chance that Alan Moore's "Miracleman" run could get reprinted sometime in the (perhaps near?) future?

Since Marvel bought the rights they've already said they would. When asked they mentioned that they were going to reprint the original Marvelman/Miracleman stuff first then move on to the other stuff. They just haven't said when.