The Comic Book Discussion Thread [Archive] - Page 21

sevenarts

11-05-2012, 05:22 PM

More recent reading:

Building Stories (Chris Ware) - This is a truly great accomplishment, one I can't do justice to in a brief paragraph. This is Ware's best work yet: affecting, intelligent work steeped in an awareness of how quickly life passes, and how much time we spend dwelling on the past. It's some of Ware's most formally daring work, too, splintering its narratives into fragments, spread out across 14 different pamphlets, books and posters, with no particular order to how they should be read. The effect is really powerful because, depending on where one dips into the narrative, you might find the main protagonist as a lonely young woman, a hopeful art student, a mother afflicted by a bittersweet emotional stew, or you might find her entirely absent, the story instead focusing on one of the other residents of the apartment where the woman spent her sad single days. I've got a young daughter, only 5 months old, and the parts dealing with the protagonist's own daughter were especially powerful for me, rooted in the quotidian day-to-day business of raising a child, but with a constant bittersweet undercurrent, an acknowledgment that kids grow up, time passes so quickly, friends and pets die, youthful dreams are abandoned and forgotten (only to suddenly and horribly crop up again as a reminder of what's been left behind) and through it all we just go on living, day by day, doing our routine business, touching briefly and ephemerally on other lives, usually with little awareness of the dreams, fears, and experiences of those other people. Ware's "book" (it's so much more than a book, really) is intricately layered and emotionally complex, and it's unlike anything else in comics or literature or really any other medium. Just a great, great work.

Ferals (David Lapham & Gabriel Andrade) - Really nasty, scummy, gory B-grade horror trash from Lapham, slumming it in an Avatar blood-and-tits-fest. There's an ugly sort of energy to this comic about vicious, cult-like communities of werewolves, and there's no denying that Lapham's pulpy style is well-suited to the material, as is Andrade's competent art, which really seems to kick into high gear whenever eviscerations and piles of intestines are called for - which is very often, of course. It's really hard to get past the treatment of women in this comic, though, with women unfailingly portrayed as getting off on violence, enjoying it when their brutal men beat them and bruise them. Coupled with the enthusiastic - at times almost sexual - depictions of people, and especially women, getting ripped apart, it makes this a very queasy reading experience. I rushed through the 8 issues so far and felt like I needed a shower afterwards.

Northlanders (Brian Wood & various artists) - A fantastic, bloody, intense Viking epic, depicting a series of short stories - some lasting a few issues, some done in one - set in Scandanavia during the Viking era. Wood obviously did a ton of research for this, and he paints a fascinating portrait of life in these times and places, at every level: the daily grind for survival, war and raiding, political maneuvering among the wealthiest and most powerful families, the place of women in this violent, male-oriented society, the encroachment of Christianity into these lands and its antagonistic relationship to the old Norse religion. It's a real epic, even though few characters recur for more than a few issues, and while each story is satisfying in its own right, it's the larger portrait of an entire culture and how it changed over time that makes Wood's accomplishment here truly great. It helps, too, that he recruited a staggering array of amazing artists to illustrate these bloody tales of revenge, war and change. Every artist on this series was at least good, and most of them were downright great.

Wilson (Daniel Clowes) - A series of one-page gag strips about the titular dysfunctional misanthrope. It starts out as a series of disconnected gags about Wilson's self-involvement and his disdain for his fellow humans, but gradually a coherent story starts to take shape, even as the one-page gag strip format remains. The narrative - about Wilson's encounter with mortality in the form of his dad's death and his subsequent doomed, half-hearted attempt to forge a meaningful connection with the pitiful remains of what counts for him as a "family" - leaps across the gag-strip format, but each page still ends with a dour punchline, and the whole book is itself a kind of punchline. Have you heard the one about the misanthrope who tried to form a family? It's a clever, often bitterly funny, and always well-drawn book - Clowes adopts multiple different styles on a continuum from shadowy realism to New Yorker-style cartooniness - but also kind of limited in its characterization and emotional range. It doesn't haunt the imagination in the way that Clowes' best work does, but it's a quick, entertaining read.

ledfloyd

11-05-2012, 05:42 PM

man, i really need to get building stories.

Sven

11-05-2012, 06:44 PM

Requisite biannual reminder of the immensity of Superman Beyond. Just read it via Absolute edition and am floored anew.

number8

11-05-2012, 06:50 PM

Did the Absolute edition come with 3D glasses?

Sven

11-05-2012, 08:50 PM

Did the Absolute edition come with 3D glasses?

Indeed.

Seriously, it's amazing how brilliantly Morrison and Mahnke wield the gimmick. Penta-layered meta-fictional fantasy-horror Superman story. 4-D!

sevenarts

11-06-2012, 12:15 AM

Here's why everyone should be reading Captain Marvel:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z43/sevenarts/cinema/captainmarvel006.jpg

Probably Marvel's most underrated current series. The last 2 issues, with Emma Rios on art, have been especially great, but it's been very solid from the beginning.

EyesWideOpen

11-06-2012, 02:08 AM

Emma Rios is indeed awesome and I will continue to support her non-big two work.

megladon8

11-06-2012, 06:41 AM

Sorry, what is this Superman Beyond?

Never heard of it before now.

EyesWideOpen

11-06-2012, 11:18 AM

Sorry, what is this Superman Beyond?

Never heard of it before now.

One of the tie-in's to Final Crisis.

megladon8

11-06-2012, 08:49 PM

So how is it available? I can find info on the storyline but doing a search for just "Superman Beyond" on Amazon doesn't yield any results.

Is it in the "Final Crisis" TPB?

Kurosawa Fan

11-06-2012, 08:51 PM

So how is it available? I can find info on the storyline but doing a search for just "Superman Beyond" on Amazon doesn't yield any results.

Is it in the "Final Crisis" TPB?

Barnes and Noble shows the trade releasing in March (http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/superman-beyond-jt-krul/1112405062?ean=9781401238230), if this is the right series.

megladon8

11-06-2012, 08:52 PM

Barnes and Noble shows the trade releasing in March (http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/superman-beyond-jt-krul/1112405062?ean=9781401238230), if this is the right series.

I don't think so. What they're talking about is a title by Grant Morrison.

number8

11-06-2012, 09:05 PM

The Superman Beyond mini is included in the Final Crisis trade. Sven was talking about the Absolute edition of Final Crisis.

Sven

11-07-2012, 12:02 AM

What number8 said. It's just two issues, and it's probably incomprehensible outside the context of Final Crisis (given that it's already pretty incomprehensible INSIDE the context of Final Crisis), but my goodness, it's something marvelous to behold.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/27444/955448-final_crisis___superman_beyond _3d__1__of_2___2008____page_24 _super.jpg

number8

11-07-2012, 03:17 PM

Oh my god, I hope this rumor is true.

The next DC Omnibus may be Promethea. All 32 issues in one volume, and printed in oversized landscape mode to preserve the double page spreads without the interruption of folds.

I will sell my trades and get it in a heartbeat.

dreamdead

11-07-2012, 03:39 PM

Oh my. That would lead to me legitimately waffling on a double-dip for it. To have it all in one volume would be beautiful.

I want that, Y: the Last Man, and Ex Machina to receive single volume editions so bad.

sevenarts

11-07-2012, 04:21 PM

I'm excited to see how they eventually collect Grant Morrison's Batman. I've been holding off on the collected editions so far - though I'll probably get Absolute Batman & Robin - in the hopes that they'll eventually do the whole run as a series of Absolutes or Omnibuses. They could slot in Absolute Black Glove/RIP and Absolute Batman Inc on either side of B&R, and I for one would be very happy.

ledfloyd

11-07-2012, 05:13 PM

i picked up the oversized deluxe edition of the black glove for $16. it was too good a deal to pass up. i don't have the rest though, i should grab the oversized RIP and probably absolute B&R as well. not sure how ROBW and batman 700-702 will fit in there though.

Sven

11-07-2012, 11:33 PM

Garbett's 2-issue "The Butler Did It" is collected in Absolute Final Crisis, which makes a little bit of sense, but is certainly going to further confuse the uninitiated. Mostly it just whetted my appetite for an Absolute Batman.

number8

11-08-2012, 12:42 PM

“Karen Berger asked me to do some more Invisibles for the anniversary of Vertigo next year, and I thought about it for five minutes and just didn’t want to do it. It was the same, when I tried to go back to Justice League and I did the Justice League Classified book which was like three years after I’d finished Justice League, I couldn’t connect with those characters at all and I had to fill the book with other characters to make it palatable to write. So I kind of, once the divorce has happened I don’t want to know!”

Good.

number8

11-08-2012, 01:51 PM

Hellblazer, the long-running Vertigo series that follows occult detective John Constantine through his darkest adventures, is coming to an end with February's issue #300, the AP reports.

Not good.

Robert Venditti and Renato Guedes will be launching Constantine, a new solo series for the character that takes place not in the mature subset of DC Comics, but instead in the "New 52" DC Universe. That means his solo adventures will now take place alongside characters like Superman and Batman, instead of being isolated to his own little corner of the world.

Fuck off with ye.

sevenarts

11-08-2012, 02:31 PM

DC is busily destroying all the goodwill they earned with the first few months of the New 52. Between the constant creator-switching, the hair-trigger cancellations, and even some of their best titles faltering or suffering from deadline-related art problems, they've been floundering around quite a bit. And I've been really enjoying Milligan's Hellblazer, so his run coming to an end is bad news enough without the further knife-twist of pulling Constantine out of his Vertigo isolation. I would have thought that the weak-sauce Justice League Dark had already proved that Constantine and characters like him don't really work that well within the mainstream DC universe.

Sven

11-08-2012, 02:52 PM

Lame news.

And those three issues of JL: Classified are the best.

sevenarts

11-08-2012, 03:42 PM

I finally caught up with Peter David's current X-Factor series, which he's been quietly working on in his own little corner of the Marvel Universe for years now. I'd read the Madrox miniseries and the first 25 or so issues of the series itself back when they first came out, but I lost track of it after that. Now I'm very happy to be reacquainted with it. David is dealing mostly with fringe and lesser-known characters, and because of that there's a freewheeling quality to the book, a sense that anything can happen at any point. The writing is crisp and clever, often very funny, and David ably blends superhero action with long-form soap opera plotting, noir aesthetics, and occasional genre-bending references to Westerns, sci-fi, and mystery thrillers. The book just barrels along, with intricate plots that still allow plenty of room for the intimate character moments that make this cast of discards from the larger X-universe so compelling. David occasionally gets derailed by a crossover - the series gets pulled into the mostly lousy Messiah Complex right around the point where I stopped reading last time - but David always picks things back up again once he's left to his own devices, and even manages to weave compelling stories out of the aftereffects of these crossovers, as he does indeed with the time-displacement storyline that results from the events of Messiah Complex. After all, one driving force of the book is Layla Miller, a plot device in the House of M crossover who David uses as one of the key characters of his run, gradually making the girl (and later, woman) who "knows stuff" one of the most intriguing characters in the series.

The series is less consistent on the art front, and has had a few really patchy runs in the art department, even when not including the jarring aesthetic differences of many of the crossover tie-in issues. When David is paired with Raimondi, Sook, DeLandro, Luppachino, Kirk and some other top-notch artists, the series looks great, with moody noir-influenced lighting and a generally dark, low-key aesthetic that sets it apart from many other superhero and X titles on the stands. But it's pretty rare for any of these artists to stick around long, and there are frequent fill-ins and lesser moments, including a memorably awful (and thankfully short) series of issues drawn by Larry Stroman, who makes everyone look vaguely deformed and half-finished. Also not crazy about Paul Davidson, who's been alternating with some better artists in recent issues. When the art is at its peak, this is one of the best books Marvel is publishing, but even when the art's not up to par it's compelling, compulsively readable and entertaining as hell. David's done around 100 issues so far, and I hope he keeps this up for another 100. It's that good.

megladon8

11-08-2012, 05:33 PM

I strongly recommend everyone check out "Colder".

Fantastic stuff. Incredible artwork. Nimble Jack is one of the creepiest characters I've seen in a long time.

Grouchy

11-08-2012, 06:21 PM

I read that Hellblazer news on CBR and it pissed me off to no end.

Hellblazer is a flagship title for Vertigo and one of the really grown-up comics that stay apart from all the horseshit editorial moves. Well, or I should say it was. If they're that desperate to have John Constantine interact with people in thighs, why don't they just encourage writers having him as a guest? And don't kill the series.

Ezee E

11-08-2012, 06:40 PM

I strongly recommend everyone check out "Colder".

Fantastic stuff. Incredible artwork. Nimble Jack is one of the creepiest characters I've seen in a long time.
Got it yesterday. Haven't read it yet.

megladon8

11-09-2012, 02:10 AM

Would anyone contest that "Godzilla: Half Century War" is some of the prettiest comics this year? Maybe even longer?

That first image in issue 2, of the aerial view of the bombed landscape, with the green of the surrounding land morphing into a tree's leaves as helicopters fly underneath.

Jaw-dropping stuff.

It's meticulously detailed. Every image could be poured over for hours.

sevenarts

11-09-2012, 02:47 AM

Ezee E

11-09-2012, 02:49 AM

I randomly grabbed Ghostbusters last week and dug that a ton. Anyone read it? Very fun.

Did I post this already? Seems like it.

I also got Ennis' Punisher vol. 1 from the library, and absolutely love everything about it. Can't wait to see where that goes.

megladon8

11-09-2012, 02:49 AM

Oh yeah, Stokoe's Godzilla is amazing. Just pure visual awesomeness. Have you read Orc Stain? I'd say it's even better and as much as I'm loving the Godzilla mini, I hope Stokoe returns to Orc Stain soon.

No I have never even heard of it to be honest. I shall start looking. Thanks for the recommendation!

Grouchy

11-09-2012, 04:35 PM

Hahahah I'm quoting poster YearZero from the CBR page:

"Dan Didio succeeded where lung cancer failed".

ledfloyd

11-09-2012, 04:54 PM

i think naming my flash drive Barry Allen is one of the nerdier things i've done.

ledfloyd

11-09-2012, 06:33 PM

i just read the first three issues of hawkeye, and it eclipses daredevil to become my favorite current marvel book in a walk. fraction manages to pack so much content into these issues and aja's art/panelling is really fantastic/inventive. but most importantly it's just a boatload of fun. like sven i've never been completely bowled over by fraction in the past but this is just special stuff.

sevenarts

11-09-2012, 06:37 PM

Yeah I love Hawkeye, it's such a blast. Definitely the first Marvel stuff I've read from Fraction that's really bowled me over - but have you read Casanova? That's really an amazing series, especially the most recent miniseries. His Marvel stuff has mostly seemed like smashing a square peg into a round hole when you look at the lunacy and ingenuity of Casanova as compared to his superhero books. That's one reason I think his upcoming FF with Mike Allred could be perfectly tailored to his strengths.

number8

11-09-2012, 06:38 PM

Get Immortal Iron Fist.

ledfloyd

11-09-2012, 06:51 PM

i've tried to read casanova, but both times i've had trouble getting through the first issue.

sevenarts

11-09-2012, 06:58 PM

I remember struggling with Casanova at first too - I hated it after the first issue but kept going and totally turned around on it. It's got a really unique voice that I think takes some getting used to, but it's very worth making the effort. Casanova: Avaritia is one of the best things to come out this year.

I've been meaning to read Immortal Iron Fist for a while now.

Acapelli

11-09-2012, 08:10 PM

"the order" too

Sven

11-12-2012, 02:38 AM

Re-reading The Boys. Describing it to my wife just now (the G-Men arc and Herogasm, in particular), I realized how pitch-perfect this freakin' book is. Complaints of its strains of juvenilia are so, so very beside the point.

This could be a favorite.

Sven

11-12-2012, 03:03 AM

Lemme amend that: the juvenilia is not beside the point, as it is thoroughly enmeshed with the point. I may have to expound on this subject at length, because it's a bit intricate. Suffice it to say, the humor is an organic extension of its whole purpose.

Acapelli

11-12-2012, 03:15 AM

the herogasm mini really turned me off to the book

there was really nothing funny about it, and the mcrea art was subpar (although the coloring may have had large part to do with it)

Sven

11-12-2012, 03:40 AM

the herogasm mini really turned me off to the book

there was really nothing funny about it, and the mcrea art was subpar (although the coloring may have had large part to do with it)

It's all the coloring. Avina, it seems, does his best to sabotage the book. One of the worst colorists out there. I quite like the angle McCrea is playing at, even if it is more Dicks and less Hitman. As far as funny, I think Herogasm is one of the more harrowing installments of the series. Tempered as it is with absurdity and cartoonism, it marks the pivotal moments of Homelander's motion towards full-blown evil, and in Hughie's molestation by Black Noir suitably deepens the dramatic thrust of the book's prior escapades. The point at which everything changes, it possesses quite the bizarre symmetry, and I love it.

megladon8

11-12-2012, 10:20 AM

I, personally, found "The Boys" to embody everything I dislike about Ennis as a writer.

I gave up after volume 3 of the trades, so maybe I'll have to continue on.

EyesWideOpen

11-12-2012, 11:30 AM

I, personally, found "The Boys" to embody everything I dislike about Ennis as a writer.

I gave up after volume 3 of the trades, so maybe I'll have to continue on.

If you didn't like the first three nothing changes in the later ones. I made it up past the Herogasm one. I feel the same way as you. It's why I couldn't make it past issue 6 of Fury Max. Ennis's shtick is getting old with me.

number8

11-12-2012, 02:21 PM

As far as funny, I think Herogasm is one of the more harrowing installments of the series. Tempered as it is with absurdity and cartoonism, it marks the pivotal moments of Homelander's motion towards full-blown evil, and in Hughie's molestation by Black Noir suitably deepens the dramatic thrust of the book's prior escapades. The point at which everything changes, it possesses quite the bizarre symmetry, and I love it.

Yes! It was an insanely long build up, but I love how all the things that you thought were one-off gross out jokes in the first half of the series turn out to have really serious consequences in the second half of the series, from big stuff like Hughie's molestation to even the small stuff like the pool of cum under Hughie's door. I'm not convinced Ennis had it all planned from the beginning, but seeing all of those threads come together and pay off was really impressive. The last few arcs of the series were some of the things I really love about Ennis.

The Highland Laddie mini is, I think, the high point, though. The ending broke my heart.

Grouchy

11-12-2012, 02:31 PM

Glad someone else appreciates the unexpected layers of writing Ennis pulls off in The Boys. Greatest series ever since Preacher.

EDIT: Last TPB I read is The Big Ride. I still have three to go.

number8

11-12-2012, 02:31 PM

I'm also convinced that Butcher might be one of Ennis' best inventions. He combined the tragedy of Cassidy with the drive of Frank Castle, and created a character so devastatingly sad yet so unnerving and scary that he's almost impossible to sympathize with. The Butcher mini reminded me a lot of Alan Clarke films.

Sven

11-12-2012, 02:54 PM

Sven

11-12-2012, 03:01 PM

Ennis's shtick is getting old with me.

Dimensional characters, surprising laughs, impeccable sequencing, nuanced political exploration, respect for the value of life, collaboration with amazing illustrators... what a boring schtick.

Grouchy

11-12-2012, 03:11 PM

megladon8

11-12-2012, 03:24 PM

Dimensional characters, surprising laughs, impeccable sequencing, nuanced political exploration, respect for the value of life, collaboration with amazing illustrators... what a boring schtick.

This leaves me scratching my head wondering if we read the same thing, unless you're talking about "Punisher MAX", "Preacher" or "Hitman".

number8

11-12-2012, 03:32 PM

The moment when he's banging the CIA woman and threatens to kill her family...

I love the splash page in the Butcher mini where he's just reading his wife's letter and smashes a chair against the door. "OPEN THE FUCKING DOOR!" So goddamn powerful.

number8

11-12-2012, 03:35 PM

sevenarts

11-12-2012, 04:26 PM

This leaves me scratching my head wondering if we read the same thing, unless you're talking about "Punisher MAX", "Preacher" or "Hitman".

Yeah, same here. I see all this stuff in the best of Ennis, but The Boys is him repeating his worst tendencies ad nauseum, with very little of the more nuanced material found in his best work. I recently read Hitman for the first time, actually, and it clarified a lot of my problems with The Boys. Not only does Hitman explore a lot of the parodic superhero stuff that Ennis would later run with in The Boys - to the point that The Boys feels pretty redundant as compared with the stories about Nightfist and Six Pack and so on - but it does so with far more wit, intelligence and humanity than Ennis would ever bring to the Boys. The Boys is just a series of crass jokes repeated over and over again, sometimes funny and entertaining enough as far as that goes, but I really don't get the sense of profundity that some are finding in this series. The predictable, cliched Butcher mini is an Alan Clarke film? Herogasm is anything more than obvious superhero sex jokes? It really is like we read a totally different series.

It did have its moments, of course: that panel of the Female laying on the ground with the dog is going to stick with me for a long time. On the whole, though, I think it's one of Ennis' weaker and less substantial comics, full of ideas he did lots better elsewhere.

Grouchy

11-12-2012, 06:24 PM

The Boys is just a series of crass jokes repeated over and over again, sometimes funny and entertaining enough as far as that goes.
See, this is where I feel like the detractors are reading a different series. It's agree to disagree, I guess. If you can't see the real story behind the satire, then we're in complete opposite sides and there's no possible discussion.

Sven

11-12-2012, 06:45 PM

I know it's a figure of speech, but I feel it needs to be stated that we are all reading the same series. There are not two writers out there named Garth Ennis writing books called The Boys. The disruption in consensus is a result of weighted priorities and loaded expectations. It can be stated truly and factually that Herogasm is NOT obvious superhero sex jokes. Those make up a very small panel count relative to the larger unraveling plot of political and moral intrigue.

megladon8

11-12-2012, 07:17 PM

Does anyone have a good resource for learning about comic book analysis/criticism, particularly with regards to art?

This is something I've often found myself to be a bit in the dark on, at least with regards to what is considered to be, formally "good" artwork and design.

For example, a current book that I think shows exceptional art in both concept and execution is "Hawkeye", but many seem to find it overly simplistic and gimmicky with its line work and arrow motif.

What makes good comic art good, besides being a pretty picture?

How do I analyze and deconstruct the "language" inherent to comic art, so that I can look at things with a more informed mindset?

Sven

11-12-2012, 07:27 PM

Does anyone have a good resource for learning about comic book analysis/criticism, particularly with regards to art?

I've been looking for something like that for a couple of years. Still haven't found anything terribly satisfying. I would just google and google and google. The main comics journalism sites are pretty much useless for that kind of approach.

sevenarts

11-12-2012, 07:53 PM

I'll go out on a limb and say that anyone who finds David Aja's art in Hawkeye gimmicky or simple wouldn't know good comic art if it was shot into them with an arrow. I have seen complaints about the flippant tone of Fraction's writing (I love it, personally) but Aja's doing great stuff on that book. The page design, the kinetic breakdowns of the action scenes, the linework that's elegant and iconic rather than simplistic: it's all great.

It's not too valuable for critiquing specific art styles, but I'd highly recommend Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics to anyone who wants to, well, understand comics. It's a very good resource, a kind of textbook done in comics form itself, and while not all of McCloud's ideas are going to resonate with everyone, it's great at breaking down the formal characteristics of comics and analyzing how comics do what they do and how they're different from other artforms.

McCloud doesn't get too much into the vagaries of individual art styles - he's more interested in design, formal mechanics, visual storytelling, and so on - but you should probably make up your own mind anyway about whether a particular artist works for you.

megladon8

11-12-2012, 08:30 PM

Great suggestions, sevenarts, thank you!

I'm thinking in similar terms to what we look at in film - direction, cinematography, editing, etc.

Do we just apply these concepts directly to comic book art, or is there another approach, another way of quantifying and evaluating the quality of the art.

Of course a lot of it is subjective, but often having an understanding of the fundamentals can help one form their personal opinion. Does that make sense?

Sven

11-12-2012, 08:34 PM

It is the flippancy (though I'd call it snark) of Fraction's tone that turns me off. It's a good book, Hawkeye, but I find that complaints about juvenilia are more suited to it than to The Boys. Complaints about Aja's art are generally misfired, though I do think that his human figures are fairly expressionless, albeit succinct in form.

I've been wanting to write a comparison/contrast piece between it and Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. Maybe I'll do that tomorrow. Or when there are a few more Hawkeye issues from which to pull.

number8

11-12-2012, 08:36 PM

Sven

11-12-2012, 08:37 PM

Winston*

11-12-2012, 08:42 PM

Definitely read Understanding Comics, megladon8. Found it very enlightening, especially the stuff about 'closure'.

Sven

11-12-2012, 08:52 PM

To that end, I'd also recommend his Making Comics and Reinventing Comics, for added perspective. They sit on my bookshelf next to Eisner's books on the same subject, which are equally insightful.

number8

11-12-2012, 09:29 PM

Comicsbeat.com is probably the best mainstream comics site I can think of.

I've also been reading Scott Tipton (http://www.comics101.com/archives/comics101/archives.php) for years. I think since it went up, actually, which means it's been almost a decade now. Oh god.

For better insight, like Sven said, you just pretty much have to google the topic you want to know about and scour all those blogspot/wordpress/tumblr entries. There are a bunch of pretty good amateur writers at work on those sites, but you pretty much have to be active in the blogging community to find and follow them.

number8

11-12-2012, 09:32 PM

One of the better moments during MorrisonCon was when James Gunn and Grant Morrison both emphatically refuted stupid Max Landis's insistence that comics and movies are basically the same.

They are both visual narrative mediums that utilize frames, but that's about where the comparison should end.

Every time some actor/director/producer on a comic book movie talk about how it's such a gift to have the source material since they're "basically storyboards," I want to dropkick them onto a drawing table.

ledfloyd

11-12-2012, 10:29 PM

comicsbeat.com is the only comic website i read with any regularity. this scott tipton thing looks like a good resource. the comics journal occasionally has some in-depth analysis and is the closest thing to legit comics criticism i've come across. unfortunately they focus pretty exclusively on indie stuff.

megladon8

11-12-2012, 10:41 PM

The use of panel gutters and sequential pacing are things that are directly unique to comics, and incredibly important to comic book storytelling. It pains me that when people talk about comic book art, they tend to strictly talk about composition and draftsmanship.

Can you go into more detail?

Sorry, it must seem like "holy crap, meg, I thought you read a lot of comics...shouldn't you know this?" but I really am in the dark with a lot of this terminology and understanding how it all comes together.

I know what a splash page is. That's about as far as my knowledge goes.

Philosophe_rouge

11-12-2012, 11:12 PM

Bechdel's Fun Home is one of my very favourite Graphic Novels, it is humane, self-reflexive and obsessive in all the best ways. Her style is unique, a sort of tapestry of personal experience and canonical pastiche of great and queer literature.

I was very excited for her follow-up about her relationship with her mother, "Are you my mother?" and I was sorely dissapointed. Perhaps it is my mistake to even hope that it could compare to Fun Home, but it is in clear dialogue with that book -- working not only as a follow-up but a quasi apologetic work to her distant mother. Bechdel excels at bringing forth her mother's strengths, her wit, her intelligence and her passion for theatre. All other elements don't quite gel, and the obsession that was compelling in Fun Home seems redundant, compulsive and detached. Though relating personal experiences, some of her analysis' seems far fetched and too self-aware. This is very much a part of Bechdel's personality, and makes me wary to critisize her work for it -- but in Fun Home, she succeeded so beautifully at moderating this part of her nature with more universal emotions and experiences.

Maybe this novel will improve with time and detached from her previous work and my high expectations, but it ultimately lacks the content that Fun Home had. There is very little in the way of action in this book and it feels TOO introspective. I still enjoy Bechdels' style as an artist, which is uncomfortably precise in terms of backdrops and beautifully affectionate regarding sex and the female form.

sevenarts

11-12-2012, 11:30 PM

Can you go into more detail?

Basically, what happens within the panel (draftsmanship, composition) is only part of the story with comics. Whereas film defines pacing with editing rhythms, with comics the pacing is determined by the size of panels, their layout on a page, and the relationship from one panel to the next. Page design is all about things like reading order, the way the eye is drawn around the page, the relationships between text and images, etc. So a page with lots of tiny panels reads much differently from a splash page, and a page with neat rows of panels reads very differently from one where the panels are irregularly shaped or arranged in a more chaotic fashion. These are the elements of comics' formal language and the things that make the medium distinct from film or literature.

McCloud covers a lot of this stuff in great detail. I read Understanding Comics pretty early in my serious comics reading, and it definitely opened my eyes to the possibilities of the medium and some of the formal stuff going on in the comics I was reading. I remember the substantial section on different types of text/image relationships being especially revelatory.

dreamdead

11-12-2012, 11:53 PM

As others have noted, McCloud is foundational in terms of comics theory. Also, Thierry Groensteen's The System of Comics is immaculate in its study, though it is overall more concerned with the French b.d. movement.

Right now academics are writing on the authors, not so much the form. Hilary Chute has an engaging book-length study on the female practioners of comics (Satrapi, Bechdel, Crumb, and another whose name I've forgotten). Charles Hatfield published a study on Jack Kirby's work last year, and that has long looked interesting to me.

In brief, McCloud and Groensteen are the key figures of contemporary comics studies. Groensteen has a section on image braiding that I find to be revelatory. Otherwise, the analysis of representation of race, gender, and sexuality became a hot topic in the past year or two, but critics are starting to move beyond "representationality," or are looking at it in conjunction with the medium-specific aspects of comics.

If you want journals that examine comics critically, there are several: Studies in Comics (http://www.intellectbooks.co.uk/journals/view-journal,id=168/), ImageTexT (http://www.english.ufl.edu/imagetext/), and Journal of Graphic Novels and Comics (http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/rcom20/current)...

number8

11-13-2012, 02:37 AM

I used to have a go-to page from Romita Sr's Spider-Man that I think is the most perfect example of this, but I just can't find it anywhere, so these'll do.

A good comic book layout should direct the reader's eye in one unbroken flow. This is where a skilled professional letterer and not just some asshole with photoshop is necessary. It's very important because most of the work is appreciated subconsciously when you're reading (unless you're academically and actively looking for the invisible lines), but you can still sense something's clunky and wrong when it's not being done properly.

http://www.webcomicalliance.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/10-batman2.jpg

Here's one from Scott Pilgrim:

http://drawn.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/4766320553_7a111e4830_o.jpg

Another good one from Arkham Asylum:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Gb06tcFdmfI/Tu7wsq9tnPI/AAAAAAAAC70/L_aCy8PjfEQ/s1600/Slide10b.jpg

Ezee E

11-13-2012, 02:53 AM

How about a bad example? My eyes tend to go that way anyway.

And with these guided online comics, things are changing... Although, have got to say, since going back into the shop, I much prefer having it in person, even if I'm not going to save them.

number8

11-13-2012, 03:14 AM

Hard to have a sequential example handy, but I stole this one from a tutorial about ballon placement. It's an example of how something as small as balloon arrows matter.

The top image makes your eyes trail off in different directions when reading. The bottom one leads you from the caption to the first balloon to the eyes of the characters and then down to the bottom corner.

http://www.paperwingspodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/dreamer_page3.jpg

And here's a page also from Scott Pilgrim that has not so good composition, per O'Malley's own admission.

http://drawn.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/4765388992_bdb4750ff5_o.jpg

It's still not that bad, but it's stilted. It would have been a lot better if that panel with Wallace holding the spatula has the balloon at the bottom next to where Scott is looking at, with an arrow pointing up to Wallace positioned higher up, for example.

Basically, if your reader's eyes have to do gymnastics on the page to read along, then you ain't got flow, son.

dreamdead

11-13-2012, 03:29 AM

Adding onto number8's post, I've always loved J.H. Williams III's Desolation Jones image below--which abandons realism for a moment of transitional expressionism between the panels:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8qUTuC6_OH0/S8SlvAbIMcI/AAAAAAAAAXQ/QNr1Y2NCXx4/s1600/desjonesbig.jpg

As for bad art, how about the old standby (that I admit I bought when it came out because of Drew's colors--I briefly wanted to be a colorist) from Randy Queen's Darkchylde:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0fb6yBm5k1qa5dbg.jpg

The words come before we ever see the alarm clock, which creates discord with the narrative. And the father's facial expression seems lecherous even though it isn't. One could go on (http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/post/21399975514/thechelstard-submitted-id-like-to-add-another)...

number8

11-13-2012, 03:47 PM

Geeeeeeeeeeeez. Tony Harris went off the deep end all of a sudden.

I cant remember if Ive said this before, but Im gonna say it anyway. I dont give a crap.I appreciate a pretty Gal as much as the next Hetero Male. Sometimes I even go in for some racy type stuff ( keeping the comments PG for my Ladies sake) but dammit, dammit, dammit I am so sick and tired of the whole COSPLAY-Chiks. I know a few who are actually pretty cool-and BIG Shocker, love and read Comics.So as in all things, they are the exception to the rule. Heres the statement I wanna make, based on THE RULE: “Hey! Quasi-Pretty-NOT-Hot-Girl, you are more pathetic than the REAL Nerds, who YOU secretly think are REALLY PATHETIC. But we are onto you. Some of us are aware that you are ever so average on an everyday basis. But you have a couple of things going your way. You are willing to become almost completely Naked in public, and yer either skinny( Well, some or most of you, THINK you are ) or you have Big Boobies. Notice I didnt say GREAT Boobies? You are what I refer to as “CON-HOT”. Well not by my estimation, but according to a LOT of average Comic Book Fans who either RARELY speak to, or NEVER speak to girls. Some Virgins, ALL unconfident when it comes to girls, and the ONE thing they all have in common? The are being preyed on by YOU. You have this really awful need for attention, for people to tell you your pretty, or Hot, and the thought of guys pleasuring themselves to the memory of you hanging on them with your glossy open lips, promising them the Moon and the Stars of pleasure, just makes your head vibrate. After many years of watching this shit go down every 3 seconds around or in front of my booth or table at ANY given Con in the country, I put this together. Well not just me. We are LEGION. And here it is, THE REASON WHY ALL THAT, sickens us: BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT COMICS, BEYOND WHATEVER GOOGLE IMAGE SEARCH YOU DID TO GET REF ON THE MOST MAINSTREAM CHARACTER WITH THE MOST REVEALING COSTUME EVER. And also, if ANY of these guys that you hang on tried to talk to you out of that Con? You wouldnt give them the fucking time of day. Shut up you damned liar, no you would not. Lying, Liar Face. Yer not Comics. Your just the thing that all the Comic Book, AND mainstream press flock to at Cons. And the real reason for the Con, and the damned costumes yer parading around in? That would be Comic Book Artists, and Comic Book Writers who make all that shit up.

number8

11-13-2012, 03:54 PM

Related to the discussion on quality comic book sites, apparently all that was in response to the flame war that happened over the weekend because a Newsarama writer posted this on Facebook:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/22287_322019134572202_18831497 13_n.jpg

Sven

11-13-2012, 04:26 PM

Geeeeeeeeeeeez. Tony Harris went off the deep end all of a sudden.

*oof whistle*

That's embarrassing. The level of insecurity on display in the original exchanges is stunning. Never realized how threatened some geek dudes feel. I like what David Hine said about the drama: "Can't help feeling that prostitute women are the ones really getting dumped on."

number8

11-13-2012, 05:05 PM

I ought to stay off Twitter until Tony Harris stops trending. It's too frustrating.

megladon8

11-13-2012, 08:16 PM

Thanks for the image breakdowns, guys, those are fantastic.

Sven

11-13-2012, 08:27 PM

Here's the pages I think 8 may have been referring to earlier:

http://unnecessaryg.com/lj/spec141-09.jpg
http://unnecessaryg.com/lj/spec141-10.jpg
http://unnecessaryg.com/lj/speccomp.jpg
http://unnecessaryg.com/lj/speccompspeculation.jpg

number8

11-13-2012, 09:09 PM

Holy shit yes, that's amazing that you knew what I was talking about. Especially since I obviously misremembered the artist. That's clearly Sal Buscema, not Romita. No wonder I couldn't find it.

Like I said, those two pages are flawless in terms of narrative flow.

Grouchy

11-13-2012, 09:19 PM

McCloud doesn't get too much into the vagaries of individual art styles - he's more interested in design, formal mechanics, visual storytelling, and so on - but you should probably make up your own mind anyway about whether a particular artist works for you.
I third or fourth the recommendation of Understanding Comics, but I disagree with this wee point here. I think McCloud has plenty to say about individual art styles and what they attempt to communicate, specially about expressing emotions through lines, blacks and even colors.

D_Davis

11-13-2012, 10:48 PM

I borrowed all of Pluto from a buddy, can't wait to read it.

I love Pineapple Army, and I haven't read anything else by the guy.

number8

11-13-2012, 10:50 PM

I borrowed all of Pluto from a buddy, can't wait to read it.

I love Pineapple Army, and I haven't read anything else by the guy.

Naoki Urusawa is probably my favorite mangaka ever. Master Keaton is so underrated.

D_Davis

11-13-2012, 10:56 PM

Naoki Urusawa is probably my favorite mangaka ever. Master Keaton is so underrated.

He has a unique style that really stands out. PA was one of the first manga I ever read, thanks to the early days of Viz. And even back then I knew his stuff was different and special.

D_Davis

11-13-2012, 10:59 PM

Naoki Urusawa is probably my favorite mangaka ever. Master Keaton is so underrated.

What other titles of his have been translated?

Is the Monster anime worth watching?

megladon8

11-13-2012, 11:20 PM

"Pluto" is one of the best sci fi comics I've ever read.

D_Davis

11-13-2012, 11:22 PM

"Pluto" is one of the best sci fi comics I've ever read.

That's what I hear. I was pretty impressed by the art while I was flipping through the books.

Winston*

11-13-2012, 11:24 PM

I was told by someone that the reason Pluto gets confusing towards the end is because the series was cancelled. Does anyone know if this is true?

EyesWideOpen

11-14-2012, 12:25 AM

I was told by someone that the reason Pluto gets confusing towards the end is because the series was cancelled. Does anyone know if this is true?

It was not cancelled.

Sven

11-15-2012, 12:39 PM

Nearing completion of my go at The Boys, I've decided to begin a re-read of Fraction's Iron Man. Larroca's pages move. Sure, his based-on-actors thing is tacky, but I think most of the tackiness is exacerbated by Frank D'Armata's horrific airbrushing and grimy shading. Though to be fair to Frank, he does a great job on the tech (as does Larroca, who clearly knows how to tell a story)

Incredible series though, and revisiting it has only elevated my esteem. Easily Fraction's best work. He's at his best when he seems to care. Interesting that Gillen also chose to structure his first arc around a five items concept.

number8

11-15-2012, 01:19 PM

Man, The Boys ending was bittersweet. Brutal in the words too.

"Bad product."

Grouchy

11-15-2012, 03:01 PM

Huh... Could you guys please spoiler everything around it? Thanks.

ledfloyd

11-15-2012, 08:42 PM

sevenarts

11-15-2012, 08:49 PM

every once in awhile i look at completing brubaker's captain america run, then i get confused as to how captain america, captain america & bucky, secret avengers, steve rogers: super soldier, and winter soldier all fit together, throw my hands up and quit.

They don't really interrelate very much at all. Cap & Bucky was all historical tales (some of which are pretty good), and Secret Avengers is a totally distinct story from his Cap run (and not very essential at all, especially since Brubaker didn't finish the story). Just read the main Cap title, and then Winter Soldier. Cap went downhill around the time of "Reborn", got better again with the "Gulag" storyline, and then trailed off. The Winter Soldier series is great.

I don't really remember what the Super Soldier series was at all, except that it was after Reborn.

ledfloyd

11-15-2012, 09:00 PM

yeah, i read up to reborn and then stopped reading because of how disappointing it was. the death of captain america saga is still one of my favorite things in comics.

dreamdead

11-16-2012, 02:04 AM

Still not sure what to make of Happy after two issues. There's less silly winking at the audience this go-around, but I really don't have a feel for how Morrison can wrap all of this up in two issues. I like the final page, though, for suggesting that the first two pages of the first issue didn't have a meaningless Santa. That might be interesting.

Saga #7 only seemingly took 5 minutes to read, but it's still hellafun. Vaughan knows his way around a cliffhanger, and each one is solid. And the splash page is wonderfully horrific in its grotesqueness.

sevenarts

11-16-2012, 05:48 PM

Three reviews of indie/minicomics I've been reading recently:

Lose (Michael DeForge) - An ongoing series of short stories and surreal bursts of imagination. DeForge is a very unique talent, with a disturbing sensibility that mixes cartoony/manga aesthetics with surreal horror, violence and gore, and an utterly sick sense of humor. In one issue, two brothers go walking in the woods, and one makes "friends" with a spider walking around with a dead horse's head perched upon its back. Yeah, it's bizarre, but it makes its own weird kind of sense and, as strange as it sounds, winds up being equal parts darkly hilarious, disturbingly creepy, and surprisingly poignant in its examination of childhood loneliness and victimhood. In the most recent (and best) issue, DeForge dedicates half the comic to a ambiguous and ultimately unresolved story about a naive young man's visit to a fetish club and its subsequent reality-altering effect on his mind and body. It's the kind of outlandish body horror that Cronenberg excels at, and in comics the closest comparison is Charles Burns, though DeForge has a much more outre sense of humor and a tendency to create disjunctions through the use of multiple art styles, combining Burnsian shadowy figures with cutesy manga girls and cartoon icons like Dilbert seemingly appearing in an underground porno.

Flesh and Bone (Julia Gfrorer) - A creepy, haunting little minicomic that economically tells a simple story of heartache and supernatural evil. A forlorn young man goes to see a witch with a dilemma: he wants to die to be reunited with his dead lover, but is afraid to kill himself and face damnation. The witch's solution is diabolical and gory, and presented with a deadpan nonchalance that makes it all the more unsettling. Gfrorer's style is sketchy and expressive, with an especial feel for body language and facial expressions, her scratchy lines especially communicative during the initial conversation between the witch and her customer, with the witch looking alternately bemused and bored by his earnest love.

Pope Hats (Ethan Rilly) - Slice-of-life indie comics have become something of a cliche, and there's been such a glut of bland and humorless ones over the years that it can be tempting to just kick the whole "genre" to the curb. But then a really good one like Ethan Rilly's Pope Hats comes along, and it's such a breath of fresh air. The 3 issues he's done so far have some short strips, but the bulk of their length is dedicated to the loose but ongoing story of 2 young roommates, one a law clerk who's dissatisfied with her job even as she excels at it, the other an actress who stumbles without thought from one thing (or person) to the next. Rilly breaks the quiet realism of these stories with bits of surrealism (notably a ghost who's stalking the more sensible roommate), and his writing crackles with wit and a keen sense of observation. He gets all the details right - my wife is a lawyer and this book's law office scenes are more dead-on accurate to her descriptions of the job than anything else I've ever read. The storytelling is never forced or showy, and you could say that not much actually happens over the course of these 3 issues - but what actually happens is just subtle, mostly internal, all about the slow unveiling of these characters and their thoughts about their lives. It's funny, charming, vital, and Rilly's feel for dialogue is fantastic; you can practically hear the voices of these young women as though they're people you met at a party rather than characters in a comic. Great stuff, and Rilly's drawing, like his writing, is well-balanced between realism and cartooniness, with very graceful linework and a great sense of panel rhythms. All these scenes of conversations and quiet contemplative moments could easily be boring if not for Rilly's poetic visual sensibility.

ledfloyd

11-17-2012, 05:14 PM

i forgot just how powerful the first arc, hell the first issue, of brubaker's cap was. riveting stuff.

number8

11-17-2012, 10:44 PM

I got these picture shelves from IKEA.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MbjAg7w8C1s/UKggfYzDCYI/AAAAAAAAA30/zuRS_qw29wg/w480-h480/12%2B-%2B1

ledfloyd

11-18-2012, 12:33 AM

saga, fatale, hawkeye... love it.

ledfloyd

11-20-2012, 04:40 AM

i just finished reborn in my cap read through. initially i was thinking it wasn't as bad as i had remembered it being, but the super-modoks and the attack of the 50-ft. red skull are pretty damned silly. that said, the initial 45 or so issues of the run are as strong as anything i've read.

Sven

11-20-2012, 10:39 PM

All the usual complaints about The Boys, while water-treading from the beginning, are practically irrelevant by the time one reaches Highland Laddie. I'd like to hear negative criticism from people who have read it that far. McCrea/Burns throw in some strange visual punctuations that enhance the drama's ineffability. Utterly beautiful.

EyesWideOpen

11-20-2012, 10:50 PM

Sven

11-20-2012, 10:56 PM

Why would I continue to read a comic book series that I didn't like for more than 50 issues? I have better uses of $200.

Of course, and I agree. "It starts getting good at season 3." Ridiculous. But in this day/age of convenient avenues of media consumption, there is always going to be the masochist. I have personally watched five (entire, if you can believe it) seasons of The Big Bang Theory, as well as the whole first season of The Newsroom. I can account for neither accomplishment.

Grouchy

11-21-2012, 04:10 AM

If reading the first issues of The Boys is masochism then I'll sit right here shoving hot coals up my anus.

Sven

11-21-2012, 10:21 AM

Didn't realize Dysart is writing the upcoming Dark Crystal: Creation Myth volume. Pretty cool. Preview pages look good.

http://io9.com/5962221/the-secret-origins-of-the-dark-crystal

ledfloyd

11-22-2012, 03:00 AM

through cap 619. i enjoyed two americas. no escape had its moments even if there were some moments towards the middle where it felt like bru was on autopilot. the trial of cap was pretty promising, but the triple fake-out ending was a bit trying. fortunately it led into gulag, which was fantastic.

ledfloyd

11-24-2012, 03:47 AM

at the end of brubaker's cap. if it dips a bit around reborn, it completely dies once bucky departs. it's as if the book loses its entire raison d'etre and goes from being a meaningful piece of work to what is merely a competently written superhero book. quite a disappointing end to what is one of the few character defining runs at the big two over the last decade.

Sven

11-26-2012, 12:12 AM

Last twenty or so issues of The Boys (prob starting with Highland Laddie) rank up there with Ennis's bonafides, and I'm not convinced it's less than his best work. Reeling in a way few things have done to me.

ledfloyd

11-26-2012, 01:09 AM

i was inspired to make a top 20 long-form (long-form definied as 20ish issues or more) comics runs list and came up with this:

Acme Novelty Library
Eightball
Promethea
Morrison's Batman
Moore's Swamp Thing
Y: The Last Man
Sandman
Hickman's FF
Bendis's Daredevil
Ex Machina
Criminal
New X-Men
Bone
Brubaker's Cap
Miller's Daredevil
Brubaker's Daredevil
Astonishing X-Men
X-Statix
Echo
100 Bullets

it occurs to me that i enjoy daredevil. and brian k. vaughan. and ed brubaker.

i need to figure out what to tackle next. strangers in paradise? the invisibles? starman?

slqrick

11-27-2012, 01:27 PM

Finally got the chance to read Fraction and Aja's Hawkeye, and I'll go ahead and say this is the most entertaining book I've read in quite a long time. The dialogue is fantastic, and makes me a bit sad that there's only room for one jokester in the movies (Downey), because I much prefer this iteration of Hawkeye than Renner's take.

And damn, those action sequences are just perfect. I'm a really big fan of the minimalist cover designs too. Just an all around terrific book.

number8

11-27-2012, 02:34 PM

I found a copy of Superfolks at the library (the latest edition with the Grant Morrison foreword) and I've been devouring it at superspeed. I still have a couple of chapters left, but boy, they weren't kidding when they said this novel was the catalyst for all the superhero deconstruction comics. If this was published today, people would no doubt say that it's full of scenes and ideas stolen from Miracleman, Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns, Kingdom Come, The Incredibles, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, etc etc, not to mention the general approach people like Mark Waid takes on superhero characterizations, save for the fact that Superfolks beat all of them by 10-20 years.

megladon8

11-28-2012, 05:23 PM

Ezee E

11-28-2012, 06:32 PM

Holy crap. Expensive week!

Returned Punisher. Loved the initial mafia story, but the Irish gang story was blegh. Should I go for future volumes from the library?

Sven

11-29-2012, 01:53 AM

Returned Punisher. Loved the initial mafia story, but the Irish gang story was blegh. Should I go for future volumes from the library?

The next volume is one of my favorites of the MAX series. Braithwaite + Nick Fury.

ledfloyd

11-29-2012, 02:23 AM

batman inc, fatale, prophet, multiple warheads, allred on FF, aaron's thor. i believe this is what's known as a good week. time to dig in.

also, i read through the first trade of the invisibles. so far it seems to be in the vein of sandman/from hell with a fair bit of doom patrol thrown in for good measure. i'm intrigued.

Sven

11-29-2012, 02:50 AM

batman inc, fatale, prophet, multiple warheads, allred on FF, aaron's thor. i believe this is what's known as a good week. time to dig in.

Definitely. Just poured myself a big glass of red wine, am about to unwind and embark. Hooray for more Remender Avengers escapades, Secret or otherwise Uncanny, and the new Red Lanterns, too.

number8

11-29-2012, 03:34 AM

The next volume is one of my favorites of the MAX series. Braithwaite + Nick Fury.

The Moscow one, right? It's awesome.

Acapelli

11-29-2012, 03:46 AM

oh god, new batman inc was incredible

Sven

11-29-2012, 03:54 AM

oh god, new batman inc was incredible

Yes. You know what else was? Secret Avengers. This last story of Remender's, with the Descendants and Earth 666 and Venom and the Black Antman and Scalera, has been so. Good.

And yes, 8. Mother Russia. I've actually re-read that single volume more than nearly any other TPB on my comics shelf.

Ezee E

11-29-2012, 04:13 AM

There were 2-3 other comics I wanted, but passed because I already spent $20.

Uncanny Avengers, Fantastic Four, Thor, Dark Knight, All New X-Men, Superman, and Ghostbusters. Considered Godzilla and Nowhere Men. I think I'm too far back on Fatale because didn't understand a thing about the last issue.

number8

11-29-2012, 12:56 PM

Fatale is now officially an ongoing.

On one hand, I'm always happy to have a creator owned ongoing on my pull list, on the other hand, we're gonna have to wait a looking time for another Criminal.

sevenarts

11-29-2012, 01:04 PM

Fatale is now officially an ongoing.

On one hand, I'm always happy to have a creator owned ongoing on my pull list, on the other hand, we're gonna have to wait a looking time for another Criminal.

I don't think this is a big change, he announced these plans (including the flashback issues, which I'm really looking forward to) in the end-matter a few issues back, and at that time said he anticipated Fatale lasting 20-25 issues but was leaving it open because he kept having more ideas for these characters. I'm liking Fatale a lot so far - but yeah, part of me wishes that Brubaker/Phillips would do nothing but churn out new Criminal minis.

number8

11-29-2012, 02:19 PM

There is a difference, which is why Image issues a press release for the change. What he said before was a series of minis with no definite end, which is how he's doing Criminal. Meaning he and Phillips can stop at the end of every arc and switch to something else like Incognito or whatever for a few months, and then resume again. Ongoing implies that it's going to come out every month until it actually ends, which doesn't leave room for other projects (Brubaker can juggle more than one monthly title, obviously, but I doubt Phillips can).

Acapelli

11-29-2012, 03:36 PM

ledfloyd

11-29-2012, 04:03 PM

i really wouldn't be upset if we never saw another incognito mini.

Acapelli

11-29-2012, 08:37 PM

i would. it's the closest they'll ever get to keep working on sleeper again

slqrick

11-29-2012, 08:54 PM

Damn, Batman Inc.

Although I'm a bit foggy on the whole Simon Hurt stuff now...is it implied that he'll be back at some point?

number8

11-29-2012, 09:14 PM

Damn, Batman Inc.

Although I'm a bit foggy on the whole Simon Hurt stuff now...is it implied that he'll be back at some point?

What do you mean? He's supposed to be literally Satan. He's just always going to be around.

slqrick

11-30-2012, 06:49 PM

What do you mean? He's supposed to be literally Satan. He's just always going to be around.

Yeah, I just remembered the whole deal...it had been a while.

I know Geoff Johns' calling card is making people care about less popular characters, but he's kind of blowing me away with this Aquaman stuff. In particular, Black Manta is a supreme badass, which is just really strange to write. Granted I've never read any other stories, but still...really enjoying his current run and it's kind of cool that the next DC event revolves around the Iron Throne of the seas.

ledfloyd

12-01-2012, 03:16 AM

with nothing to do this friday evening, i decided to take sevenarts' recommendation and give Glory a shot. for the most part i'm really impressed, especially with Ross Campbell, whose art immediately drew me into the book. it's a unique concept, Riley is a great character, but for some reason i will go from a few pages where i'm thinking "this is the best thing ever!" to a few pages where i'm not quite so sure. i feel like Keatinge's sequencing is just ever so slightly off at times. the reveal regarding Glory's mom at the end of the second issue for example, it seems like a strange place for that cliffhanger. especially considering it hasn't had much bearing on the successive five issues. there are just things like that on a smaller scale throughout the issues that keep it from really singing for me, from being one of my favorite current books.

i do think i will stick with it. when it works it WORKS. for two relative unknowns on creative it's an impressive book, i'll be keeping an eye out for them in the future.

sevenarts

12-01-2012, 12:22 PM

Sven

12-01-2012, 07:53 PM

I'mma throw this out there:

Crossed > Walking Dead

Anyone agree? Disagree strongly enough to mount a defense? The simplest road to my argument is that Ennis, Spurrier, Lapham, Hine, and Delano (impressive line-up by any standard) are all much better writers than Kirkman, each able to craft their own unique tableaux apart from a continuum. At first I was disgusted by the books, but once the shock element subsides, there are some strong character trajectories and interesting survivalist (and generally existential) ideas that aren't smothered in the kind of melodrama that an ongoing narrative by necessity maintains. I will concede that Adlard is better than most of the Crossed artists, though.

number8

12-01-2012, 09:22 PM

The sentiment doesn't seem offensive to me. I don't think I respect either enough to argue which is better, though.

megladon8

12-02-2012, 01:47 AM

I found "Crossed" to be a one-trick pony, based off of Ennis' annoyingly persistent need to place shock value above story. When he turns down his more annoying tendencies he can be one of the best. But this is not one of those books.

I can't say that I saw much of any depth to the stories. A few interesting characters were all it really had to offer.

I've said it before, the series' high concept seems to have been/be "how many ways can someone get raped to death?"

ledfloyd

12-02-2012, 06:07 AM

nice. unfortunately it's ending with issue 34, getting cancelled. hopefully the run at least comes to a satisfying end but it certainly seems like keatinge will have to rush this big war he's been building up to. oh well, i've enjoyed it a lot, and campbell is great. that issue with riley in the future was totally brilliant.

keatinge is going to be writing the marvel now morbius book, which i'm interested in because of his presence if nothing else.
i actually read something with Keatinge where he said Image required raising the price to $3.99 to get to the ending he wanted. so i'm not sure it's going to be rushed, i'm looking forward to it.

number8

12-03-2012, 07:34 PM

The Hawkeye Initiative (http://thehawkeyeinitiative.tumblr.co m/) is the best thing ever.

ledfloyd

12-03-2012, 09:10 PM

has anyone read Spaceman now that it's been collected? it's definitely easier to follow reading it in chunks than issue by issue and it almost demands multiple readings. but i think this might be the best thing Azzarello and Risso have done. it's such a unique and layered work, and the world is so richly realized. we intuit things like the environmental disaster that preceeds the book, and the fact that the spacemen were attempting to terraform mars. Azzarello doesn't spell this out and he doesn't need to. the post-text message patois everyone speaks (more exaggerated in the poor) is clever as well (one of the major advantages to reading this in one go is not having to readjust to the language every month). this is just wonderful comics. sure to be in my year end top ten.

Sven

12-04-2012, 12:06 AM

Karen Berger is quitting Vertigo and DC.

The timing, with Hellblazer ending, is only cause for alarm. It's gonna be a very different imprint going forward, I think. Liefeld is speculating that she was ousted and Cameron Stewart stated that he doubts Seaguy 3 will ever happen now. If this is true, I just might have to do some boycotting for reals.

Sven

12-04-2012, 12:19 AM

I began to be told that people believed that DC were trying to force Karen out – she was expensive, she was old school, she didn’t fit with the New 52. Ironically, she found herself editing such a title, Dial H, after it was repurposed from Vertigo to the New 52, as writer China Mieville demanded he still work with Berger. Karen was at odds with Dan DiDio over many things – aside from the new DC logo which they both despised.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/12/03/vertigone/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

sevenarts

12-04-2012, 12:28 AM

That's terrible news indeed. It really seems like Vertigo is dying - all the titles that might once have resided there seem to be at Image these days, and the Vertigo line itself is reduced to a few mainstays (Fables, Unwritten, American Vampire, etc). No more Hellblazer, no more Karen Berger, soon no more Vertigo, at least as it once was. Karen's name is all over almost all the classic Vertigo books, and Dial H is currently one of my top 2-3 DC books - I hope it stays the same with her gone.

Sven

12-04-2012, 12:32 AM

...and Dial H is currently one of my top 2-3 DC books - I hope it stays the same with her gone.

It's my second most anticipated DC book at the moment, so it would be a shame if I had to quit supporting the company.

I hope Mieville's experience doesn't sour him from doing future comics. He's excellent at it.

sevenarts

12-04-2012, 12:34 AM

Oh and no more Seaguy? Crap. I thought it was a very bad sign that the second series still doesn't have a collection. I think that's one of Morrison's greatest works and I was really excited to see the trilogy concluded.

Sven

12-04-2012, 12:36 AM

I think that's Morrison's greatest work.

Fixed.

ledfloyd

12-04-2012, 01:04 AM

That's a shame, without Vertigo and Karen I highly doubt I would be reading comics regularly today.

number8

12-04-2012, 01:23 AM

That Waid quote is absolutely spot on. Vertigo is dying as DC keeps cannibalizing it.

sevenarts

12-04-2012, 01:31 AM

Fixed.

There are other Morrison books I like about as much, but I'm totally OK with that.

number8

12-04-2012, 01:46 AM

I do hope Berger starts her own company. The amount of people who would jump to work with her is probably enormous.

ledfloyd

12-04-2012, 03:38 AM

Fixed.
this is filth.

Sven

12-04-2012, 04:17 AM

this is filth.

It's a marvel, boy.

Sven

12-04-2012, 05:01 PM

I've said it before, the series' high concept seems to have been/be "how many ways can someone get raped to death?"

I've now read the first six issues of Ennis's first volume and the answer to your question is exactly two. There are two panels of rape death in almost a hundred pages of comic. (And panels with non-sexual graphic violence only amount to a handful more.) This is what I mean when I say that it's easy to dismiss the books based on their extreme elements as opposed to the actual substance of the stories.

Lapham's subsequent volumes definitely up the gruesomeness ratio, because he's a sick, sick man. But even those are full of insight and creative characterization.

Dead & Messed Up

12-04-2012, 07:57 PM

Okay you guys, I'm not a common visitor to this thread or this subject, but I just read Kingdom Come, and I'm kinda torn.

On the one hand, I was definitely reading a visual masterpiece. Alex Ross's artwork is unbelievable in how he takes superhero imagery and makes it feel concrete and plausible. His use of shadow and volume, how he seems to key off real people - Bruce Wayne looks like he was modeled after Gregory Peck. The fact that he makes Captain Marvel look imposing and frightening while he says "Shazam." Shazam? Never read anything about Captain Marvel, but "shazam"?

On the other hand, it seems a little afraid to commit to its premise. I get why, given the way superhero stories need to keep open the possibility of status quo, but it was a bummer reading the entire story within a storytelling framing device. The writers were probably going for more of a Dante/Virgil angle, given the religious symbolism, but it felt more Scrooge/Christmas Ghost to me. Also, the comic seems derivative of Watchmen, although that's probably a charge that could be leveled at a lot of post-eighties superhero comics (I assume), and it wasn't borrowing excessively. I did like that you see a copy of Under the Hood in a storefront window at the beginning. That helped me get over the parallels.

Anyway,

http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/comic-covers/10557_400x600.jpg

number8

12-04-2012, 08:09 PM

What's wrong with shazam?

Dead & Messed Up

12-04-2012, 08:14 PM

I just wasn't prepared, man. All of a sudden, there's shazam, and I gotta make my peace with it in a hurry, because suddenly everything hinges on shazam.

Sven

12-04-2012, 08:53 PM

I've now read the first six issues of Ennis's first volume and the answer to your question is exactly two. There are two panels of rape death in almost a hundred pages of comic. (And panels with non-sexual graphic violence only amount to a handful more.) This is what I mean when I say that it's easy to dismiss the books based on their extreme elements as opposed to the actual substance of the stories.

Finished. Not a single other instance of rape death. There is, however, lots of compassion and peering at human foible. Typical Ennis.

Trust me, I get it. Before I engaged, I would flip through the books and my interest would deflate immediately, esp. the later arcs containing more no-holds-barred images per chapter. But I assure you that with the first volume, the furor is pretty much all marketing hype and, perhaps, reverberating shock. In fact, I'm pretty sure that most Walking Dead collections contain more violence than this one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/iosos/Comic%20scans/crossed.jpg

EyesWideOpen

12-05-2012, 12:02 AM

Selling off massive loads of comics is the worst. I just want someone to come and get them all in one fell swoop.

Acapelli

12-05-2012, 12:44 AM

jacen burrows art is painful to look at

Ezee E

12-05-2012, 02:48 AM

...and finally... Ghostbusters. Yawn. What a dumb way to end. Even though they called themselves out on it doesn't give it an excuse.

Winston*

12-05-2012, 03:21 AM

There are two panels of rape death in almost a hundred pages of comic.

That seems like a comparatively high percentage of rape death. (unless you factor in Japan).

Sven

12-05-2012, 03:35 AM

That seems like a comparatively high percentage of rape death. (unless you factor in Japan).

It ended up being two panels in over two hundred pages, which is smaller. But it is a book about rape death, so there's bound to be some. It's just less abundant and more thoughtfully handled than people suggest.

dreamdead

12-05-2012, 03:37 AM

jacen burrows art is painful to look at

Yep. When Neonomicon was having its limited run, I always wondered how much more successful the series would have been with a more dynamic artist. I think the faces are acceptable enough, though they lack style or realism, but his background work is particularly limiting.

Sven

12-05-2012, 03:54 AM

but his background work is particularly limiting.

I think it's probably a case of time. He's clearly a good artist, and when he does backgrounds and details, his proportions, depth, and sense of space are excellent. But he does so much work that I'm sure efficiency is his mantra more often than evocation. His colorists also do him few favors, tending towards high contrast skin hues and muddy palettes. The second Crossed arc he did with Ennis takes place in a snowy expanse and I think it works tremendously.

number8

12-05-2012, 03:56 AM

Avatar just has the worst colorists. I'm convinced that 80% of their books would all look better in black and white.

Acapelli

12-05-2012, 02:57 PM

Avatar just has the worst colorists.
this definitely doesn't help

ledfloyd

12-05-2012, 07:34 PM

Hickman's Avengers feels like preamble, but i'm looking forward to what he has in store. Action Comics #15 might be my favorite issue to date, great stuff.

slqrick

12-06-2012, 12:38 AM

Had no idea there was a new arc of Hellboy starting. So awesome, and Mignola back on the art.

Avengers feels almost like a sci-fi book in that first issue. Can't wait to see what Hickman does with it. Apparently it's going to be biweekly.

sevenarts

12-06-2012, 01:56 AM

In addition to everything else, Hawkeye has the best sound effects. I laughed so hard at both KGLASSSS and FOOTOOMP!

ledfloyd

12-06-2012, 09:17 AM

In addition to everything else, Hawkeye has the best sound effects. I laughed so hard at both KGLASSSS and FOOTOOMP!
unfortunately Pulido's art is a mere shadow on Aja's.

sevenarts

12-06-2012, 11:04 AM

They're just different artists. I've really loved Pulido ever since I saw his stuff in Human Target.

ledfloyd

12-06-2012, 11:55 AM

i've never been a fan of the way he draws faces. also gone is a lot of the playful formal innovation that was present in aja's issues. still loving the book though, don't get me wrong.

number8

12-06-2012, 07:01 PM

"All of this is useless since you've already finished reading the issue."

Sven

12-07-2012, 02:00 AM

Who are some of your underrated writers, artists, and/or titles? Seems like I only ever hear about the ones everybody is always talking about.

ledfloyd

12-07-2012, 02:35 AM

i feel like most of what i read is relatively popular. rachel rising is the only one i don't think gets the buzz it should.

number8

12-07-2012, 03:57 AM

I don't think John Ostrander and Chris Gage get enough credit.

megladon8

12-07-2012, 06:48 PM

I'm a big fan of Doug Tennapel. He doesn't get talked about much (at least not around here).

I could see his stuff not appealing to the MC crowd, though.

Grouchy

12-07-2012, 07:33 PM

Norm Breyfogle is one of my favorite artists, specially for Batman. I don't think he gets a lot of recognition.

Sven

12-08-2012, 12:22 AM

I have a couple of Breyfogle issues. He's definitely good. Any runs in particular you would recommend, oh Grouch?

I've only read two issues written by Ostrander, both Aquaman, and both significantly obnoxious. I hear his Suicide Squad run is not to be missed...

Still not gotten around to any Tennapel. I'm not huge on illustration with that animation cel/game designy approach, but it's clear that he's talented. I'll read one of his books soon.

As for Gage, my impression of him is zilch. Isn't he one of the dudes on the Avengers cartoon? I've seen a few episodes. I like the Cap one, that's all cosmic with time travel and everything. What's a good book he's done?

Sven

12-08-2012, 12:24 AM

Only read the first issue of Rachel Rising and, while apathetic about the story, was kind of in awe at Moore's rendering of foliage.

ledfloyd

12-08-2012, 03:39 AM

Only read the first issue of Rachel Rising and, while apathetic about the story, was kind of in awe at Moore's rendering of foliage.
the story is just now starting to come together, but yeah, his art is fantastic. his characters are also very compelling to me. he's right up there with jaime hernandez in terms of male writers that develop great female characters.

sevenarts

12-08-2012, 01:06 PM

Rachel Rising is definitely my #1 under-the-radar choice. Such a great book, for all the reasons (art, fantastic characters, slow-burning story reveals) that ledfloyd mentions.

James Stokoe could use much more recognition, for his current Godzilla miniseries and even more for his own ongoing Orc Stain. An amazing, detailed artist with a great sense of humor and a real feel for crazy action.

And of course tons of indie/obscure choices that no one ever mentions in these kinds of threads, which tend to focus on the mainstream. Love Michael DeForge, who's what would happen if David Lynch read a lot of manga. Yuichi Yokoyama is one of the most important artists around today, a wild formalist whose often-wordless examinations of processes in action are really compelling and unlike anything else. I love Anders Nilsen, who had a massive brick of a book called Big Questions last year that made something brilliant out of little birds spouting lite-philosophy and dealing with tragedy.

Grouchy

12-08-2012, 04:29 PM

I have a couple of Breyfogle issues. He's definitely good. Any runs in particular you would recommend, oh Grouch?
Well, as a kid buying Batman comics it seemed like he drew every single issue, as part of a 6-year-old run with writer Alan Grant.

Re-reading those comics now, the scripts were sometime a little juvenile in the "grim n' gritty" sense. It was like Grant wrote over-the-top sadistic villains just to align himself with the zeitgeist. But at the same time he created great characters - the Ventriloquist, Anarky, etc.

The art was always beautiful.

Grouchy

12-08-2012, 04:30 PM

I have a Batman-centric question.

Who the hell is Barbara Gordon's mother?

number8

12-08-2012, 05:05 PM

Her name is also Barbara. I believe that in the New 52, their family tree got a lot simplified. Jim never married Sarah Essen and is Babs' biological father.

Grouchy

12-08-2012, 05:09 PM

Her name is also Barbara. I believe that in the New 52, their family tree got a lot simplified. Jim never married Sarah Essen and is Babs' biological father.
Oh, so he was only the adoptive father before? Interesting. I'd like to see a comic explore that, dunno if there are any.

James Gordon Jr. never got much spotlight after falling of a bridge as a baby in Year One.

number8

12-08-2012, 05:35 PM

Oh, so he was only the adoptive father before? Interesting. I'd like to see a comic explore that, dunno if there are any.

She was his niece. I don't think there's a single comic about it, that's just what her backstory was post-Crisis. Throughout the 80s and 90s, she was Gordon's brother's daughter who was adopted by him and Barbara Sr after her parents died when she was a kid. James Jr was Gordon's only biological child.

Of course this was something most people forgot, so supposedly to make it simpler, right after No Man's Land, Devin Grayson wrote an issue that revealed how Jim Gordon slept with his brother's wife all those years ago and might be Barbara's biological father after all.

It's pretty dumb. If there's one retcon in The New 52 that I'm glad of, it's that. Though I don't like how Gordon never married Sarah Essen.

James Gordon Jr. never got much spotlight after falling of a bridge as a baby in Year One.

I take it you haven't read Black Mirror.

EyesWideOpen

12-08-2012, 11:37 PM

I got my DCBS box in the mail yesterday. I enjoy reading so much more now that I've stopped reading books I only slightly like. I tried out Bedlam, Nowhere Men and Colder and really enjoyed all three so I added them to my pull list. Manhattan Projects, Rachel Rising and Saga continue to be my three favorite series with Mind MGMT, Revival, Fatale and Stumptown close behind.

ledfloyd

12-09-2012, 04:45 AM

i read the first series of Stumptown and couldn't really get into it. i thought it was strange because i usually like Rucka a lot. it never grabbed me though, felt kind of generic to me.

i'm still on the fence with Mind MGMT. the style is undoubtedly fresh and inventive, but i'm not sure how substantial it is.

EyesWideOpen

12-09-2012, 10:23 PM

I have the first two issues of Multiple Warheads and the first issue of The Zaucer of Zilk if anyone wants them. I'll send them out for free. I just wasn't feeling them.

Grouchy

12-10-2012, 04:45 AM

She was his niece. I don't think there's a single comic about it, that's just what her backstory was post-Crisis. Throughout the 80s and 90s, she was Gordon's brother's daughter who was adopted by him and Barbara Sr after her parents died when she was a kid. James Jr was Gordon's only biological child.

Of course this was something most people forgot, so supposedly to make it simpler, right after No Man's Land, Devin Grayson wrote an issue that revealed how Jim Gordon slept with his brother's wife all those years ago and might be Barbara's biological father after all.

It's pretty dumb. If there's one retcon in The New 52 that I'm glad of, it's that. Though I don't like how Gordon never married Sarah Essen.
Agreed, that's kind of dumb. And so is removing Gordon's marriage to Sarah - I like the relationship between those two a lot.

I take it you haven't read Black Mirror.
You guess correctly. I only read Batman and Son from "that" Morrison run. I should just download all those comics and inform myself.

sevenarts

12-10-2012, 11:27 AM

You guess correctly. I only read Batman and Son from "that" Morrison run. I should just download all those comics and inform myself.

While you should definitely read all of Morrison's Batman (it's brilliant), that's Black Glove you're thinking of.

The Black Mirror was written by Scott Snyder, and it's excellent, one of Snyder's best works so far.

sevenarts

12-10-2012, 02:36 PM

I have the first two issues of Multiple Warheads and the first issue of The Zaucer of Zilk if anyone wants them. I'll send them out for free. I just wasn't feeling them.

I have these but someone should definitely take you up on this. Zaucer is at least interesting, and Multiple Warheads is one of the most fun comics on the stands. Someone, grab these!

Grouchy

12-10-2012, 05:07 PM

While you should definitely read all of Morrison's Batman (it's brilliant), that's Black Glove you're thinking of.

The Black Mirror was written by Scott Snyder, and it's excellent, one of Snyder's best works so far.
Oh! Gotcha.

dreamdead

12-13-2012, 03:53 PM

In fairly quick succession I've knocked out Guy Delisle's travelogues Burma Chronicles and Jerusalem: Chronicles from the Holy City. They're quick, breezy, and give a good glimpse into the cultures that Guy stays in. I found Jerusalem more fascinating in that it gets to triangulate the study of Jews, Christians, and Muslims, and richly studies how each subculture portrays itself as the victim while glossing how they victimize the neighboring subcultures. Good stuff, and depressing to see how little changes.

ledfloyd

12-13-2012, 04:17 PM

i've only read Pyongyang by Delisle, which is fascinatingly bizarre. he's not quite Joe Sacco, but i would like to read more of his work.

dreamdead

12-13-2012, 04:27 PM

i've only read Pyongyang by Delisle, which is fascinatingly bizarre. he's not quite Joe Sacco, but i would like to read more of his work.

Yeah, the level of detail in Delisle's art is nowhere near Sacco's artistry. But it's trying to be something so different that I don't hold it against him too much. The way that he incorporates his wife and children into the proceedings creates a much more optimistic vibe than Sacco's lonerism mentality. That said, Safe Area Gorazde is a masterwork and I'm not confident Delisle will ever get to that level.

ledfloyd

12-13-2012, 04:42 PM

Yeah, the level of detail in Delisle's art is nowhere near Sacco's artistry. But it's trying to be something so different that I don't hold it against him too much. The way that he incorporates his wife and children into the proceedings creates a much more optimistic vibe than Sacco's lonerism mentality. That said, Safe Area Gorazde is a masterwork and I'm not confident Delisle will ever get to that level.
his wife and children weren't present in Pyongyang, but that does seem like an interesting spin.

number8

12-16-2012, 03:41 AM

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/235/8/8/We_are_all_fucked_now_by_lebzp el.jpg

number8

12-16-2012, 05:49 PM

Never seen this blog before. Kinda brutal.

http://watchmen2creatordarwyncooke.tu mblr.com/

sevenarts

12-17-2012, 02:43 AM

Anyone here going to do a comics "best of" list for the year? I did one for another board, here it is:

1. Building Stories
2. Love and Rockets: New Stories #5
3. Fantastic Four/FF
4. Prophet
5. The Manhattan Projects
6. Lose #4
7. Saga
8. Batman Incorporated
9. Rachel Rising
10. Dal Tokyo

11. Casanova: Avaritia
12. By This Shall You Know Him
13. Wonder Woman
14. Dial H
15. Conan the Barbarian
16. The Punisher
17. Age of Apocalypse
18. Multiple Warheads: Alphabet to Infinity
19. Hawkeye
20. Fatale

Plus: Daredevil, Uncanny X-Force, Glory, Captain Marvel, Mind MGMT, Godzilla: The Half-Century War, Tales Designed To Thrizzle #8, Kramers Ergot 8

Grouchy

12-17-2012, 02:47 AM

That's awesome.

I wonder why they didn't use an actual Minutemen cover, though.

EyesWideOpen

12-17-2012, 04:04 AM

Anyone here going to do a comics "best of" list for the year? I did one for another board, here it is:

1. Saga
2. The Manhattan Projects
3. Rachel Rising
4. Fatale
5. Mind MGMT
6. Stumptown
7. Revival
8. Adventure Time
9. Mind the Gap
10. The Massive

Ezee E

12-17-2012, 04:12 AM

I got involved in the year too late, and am just getting involved in the comic world. Still with the big ones out of DC and Marvel.

I'll be keeping an eye out for next year.

Dead & Messed Up

12-17-2012, 04:40 AM

Just finished V For Vendetta, and I have to say, I was secretly hoping that Evey would lift the mask at the end and we would see that it was Barty all along.

Amazing comic, by the by.

ledfloyd

12-17-2012, 05:25 PM

i'm planning on posting a top ten on my blog on thursday (dependent on how well this wisdom tooth surgery recovery goes, still a bit foggy), but i feel like it's going to be incomplete as i'm still waiting on amazon to get building stories in stock.

number8

12-17-2012, 08:01 PM

Fury #7: Ahhh, Ennis writing Frank Castle again. Always a pleasure, even if he's a supporting character here.

Raiders

12-18-2012, 12:00 AM

megladon8

12-18-2012, 12:14 AM

Raiders

12-18-2012, 02:51 PM

Oh yes, been meaning to read Blankets for a while now.

Acapelli

12-18-2012, 08:58 PM

i can't think of blankets without thinking of the abridged version by johnny ryan

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/6730/tumblrlmc2hhhu991qb57az.jpg

sevenarts

12-19-2012, 02:32 AM

proving once again that johnny ryan >>>>>>> blankets

ledfloyd

12-19-2012, 05:38 PM

i just looked at the list of books out today and fainted. too much goodness.

Ezee E

12-19-2012, 05:58 PM

i just looked at the list of books out today and fainted. too much goodness.
Ruh roh. Going to the shop in a couple hours.

ledfloyd

12-19-2012, 06:05 PM

Ruh roh. Going to the shop in a couple hours.
i got Avengers, FF, Hawkguy, Daredevil, Thor, Batwoman, Wonder Woman, Happy, Saga, and Rachel Rising. but there is also a new issue of Locke and Key, which I've been reading in collections, and The Unwritten, Captain America, Wolverine and the X-Men, Uncanny X-Force, All-New X-Men, Django Unchained, etc.

Ezee E

12-19-2012, 06:07 PM

Hmm... Hoping Django Unchained is separate from the movie in a way?

What's your opinion on the Marvel Now stuff?

ledfloyd

12-19-2012, 06:29 PM

I haven't been reading a ton of it. Captain America wasn't quite engaging enough to hook me for issue 2, and after Brubaker's marathon run a break from the character is probably in order anyhow. Of the other titles I've sampled—All-New X-Men, Uncanny Avengers, Deadpool, Iron Man, Thor—only Thor still has my interest. Of course, there is no way I'm not in on the ground floor of Hickman's Avengers, I'm willing to follow him anywhere after Fantastic Four, and I'm enjoying Fraction's continuation of those titles as well.

number8

12-20-2012, 02:02 PM

Quite a bounty indeed. I got Avengers, Wonder Woman, Thor, Ultimate Spiderman, Hawkguy, Batwoman, Saga, The Unwritten, Happy, Django Unchained and The Black Beetle.

ledfloyd

12-20-2012, 03:05 PM

http://tongue-tiedlightning.blogspot.com/2012/12/2012-year-in-comics.html

as promised, my top ten comics of the year. woefully incomplete as my copy of building stories is on backorder from amazon.

sevenarts

12-20-2012, 03:13 PM

Going to check out that list now, floyd. Meanwhile, been a while since I posted any blurbs on my recent reading...

The Last Days of American Crime (Rick Remender & Greg Tocchini) - After checking this out on the recommendation of Sven in this very thread, my mind has been changed on Greg Tocchini. Like a lot of people, I wasn't too impressed with his guest spots on FF and Uncanny X-Force, but this is clearly a great work, and his stylized, unusual art is perfectly suited to this apocalyptic crime story. Where his superhero action is a little too fuzzy and indistinct, this noirish heist comic really displays his capacity for atmosphere, as well as his obvious love of drawing sexy dames and grizzled tough guys. It's a fine story, too, with a sci-fi premise that provides a backdrop for a fast-paced, twisty heist saga, packed with double and triple crosses, the kind of story where everyone's loyalties are always in question, where the body count keeps piling up and the clock keeps ticking down towards the inevitable bloodbath of the climax. Remender excels at this kind of stuff, keeping the action brisk and the characterization minimal. He relies perhaps a little too much on stock noir archetypes for shorthand characterization, but it hardly matters since the plot is compelling enough, and the atmosphere of this imagined future is so vividly rendered by Tocchini. There are hints of political commentary here and there, but mostly this is just a thrilling and well-made crime tale.

Catwoman (Ed Brubaker & various artists) - Brubaker, with the assistance of a series of mostly great artists, writes the kind of Catwoman that should always be around: tough, feminist, noirish, with a great cast of supporting characters. Notably, Brubaker pulls private eye Slam Bradley out of the obscurity of DC history and makes him a fascinating character, with a complex and poignant relationship with Selina Kyle. The same goes for Selina's friend Holly, who Brubaker ressurected without realizing that she'd been killed off in an earlier story - and it's a good thing he did, because his version of the character certainly didn't deserve an unceremonious end. This series is all about Selina's transformation from a simple burglar and criminal to something much more complex, a hero who tries to do good without Batman's strict moral code and insistence on moral absolutes. She doesn't want to end crime, she wants to control it, to reduce its impact on innocent lives, to prevent the worst injustices and the worst evils - but she's still not above breaking the law in her own ways. It's great stuff, and Brubaker is assisted by artists like Darwyn Cooke & Mike Allred, Cameron Stewart, and Javier Pulido, all of whom bring a stylish, noirish, somewhat cartoony look to this book and this character. It's sexy, funny, and sophisticated, and it reaches its high point when Brubaker follows the devastating, intense "Relentless" storyline - which tears Selina's life apart in a number of ways - with a quiet, reflective arc that backgrounds the drama and action in favor of simply examining various characters' processes of recovery in the aftermath of this trauma. When so many superhero books just charge through one big, supposedly world-changing arc after another with no pause to examine the consequences, this kind of approach to tragedy and emotion is very refreshing. My only problem with the book is that, towards the end of Brubaker's run, the Gulacy/Palmiotti team takes over as the regular artists, and I just don't feel like their slick, stiff style fits this book at all, especially in comparison to the great work done by the artists who worked on the earlier chapters. Around this time, Catwoman also gets pulled into the big bat-book "War Games" crossover that Brubaker was masterminding over in the main Batman title, and while this stuff is OK, it's not up to the standard of the series' earlier arcs. But everything up to "Wild Ride" is pretty damn great.

Stumptown (Greg Rucka & Matthew Southworth) - The back cover press for these issues praises this series as "solid," and that's as much truth-in-advertising as I've ever seen in this kind of marketing blurb. It's the definition of a solid, unflashy, enjoyable series, nothing mind-blowing or ground-breaking, just a good detective story with some fun dialogue and an interesting main character. It's good stuff. Rucka and Southworth have done 2 miniseries so far (the second is still in-progress) and each one focuses on a different case taken by the quirky private eye Dex. The cases are interesting but the real fun is Dex herself, her self-deprecating wit, her ambiguous sexuality, her sharp investigative skills. And the atmosphere is equally important, with the Portland setting lovingly rendered by Southworth with a realistic style that seems to have been extensively photo-referenced. It's a brisk, fun read, not nearly as compelling or substantial as the various Brubaker/Phillips crime/noir collaborations, but it's still nice to have more of this kind of detective/mystery/noir genre material on the stands on a regular basis.

number8

12-20-2012, 03:36 PM

Well, there's the news. Dark Horse's Star Wars license ends next year and will not be renewed. Expect Marvel Star Wars comics as early as 2015.

Sven

12-20-2012, 04:14 PM

Like a lot of people, I wasn't too impressed with his guest spots on FF and Uncanny X-Force, but this is clearly a great work, and his stylized, unusual art is perfectly suited to this apocalyptic crime story. Where his superhero action is a little too fuzzy and indistinct, this noirish heist comic really displays his capacity for atmosphere, as well as his obvious love of drawing sexy dames and grizzled tough guys.

I think a lot of it, too, is that only Tocchini knows how to color Tocchini.

Glad you checked it out. Definitely the coolest noir comic I know.

number8

12-20-2012, 04:30 PM

Cool that you dug Catwoman too. I wish the oversized collection would come out faster. They released the first volume earlier this year, but the second's not coming until June next year.

sevenarts

12-20-2012, 04:41 PM

Cool that you dug Catwoman too. I wish the oversized collection would come out faster. They released the first volume earlier this year, but the second's not coming until June next year.

yea it's great. i have that first volume (which also has darwyn cooke's fantastic selina graphic novel and the slam bradley short stories) and am looking forward to the second. i guess the second will collect up till the end of brubaker's run?

i also read a whole bunch of brubaker and rucka batman material around the same time as catwoman, and wasn't too impressed with a lot of it. the big murderer/fugitive story in particular seemed like a massive missed opportunity: a great premise and idea that didn't quite deliver on its promise. i think i just hate this kind of superhero story structure where multiple writers take turns on alternating chapters of a story spread out across multiple books. i just wanted to read brubaker telling this story from beginning to end, i don't want whoever's writing robin or azrael or whatever to do chapters. rucka's detective comics run was pretty good, though, especially as it set a lot of the groundwork for gotham central. i liked the stuff with sasha, too.

i've been trying to build up to read the big no man's land batman crossover, but so much of the lead-in material (cataclysm, aftershock, road to no man's land) is really bad. it's kind of sapped my will to keep reading. is NML worth it?

number8

12-20-2012, 05:27 PM

yea it's great. i have that first volume (which also has darwyn cooke's fantastic selina graphic novel and the slam bradley short stories) and am looking forward to the second. i guess the second will collect up till the end of brubaker's run?

I doubt it... Vol 1 only collects up to #9. If that's the case, the second Vol would contain 28 issues and be 650 pages. There's probably going to be a third Vol.

i've been trying to build up to read the big no man's land batman crossover, but so much of the lead-in material (cataclysm, aftershock, road to no man's land) is really bad. it's kind of sapped my will to keep reading. is NML worth it?

Same as Fugitive, really. Lots of good stuff, but the collections are padded by all the tie-in titles and they're not always good.

Neclord

12-20-2012, 08:45 PM

Cameron Stewart is self-publishing his new comic, Niro, via DRM-free, set-you-own-price digital download starting next year. Here's an 18 page preview (http://www.nirocomic.com/) to get you excited. Unless you're not a Cameron Stewart fan, which I find hard to understand.

Ezee E

12-21-2012, 04:33 AM

Django is apparently the original script, cut scenes and all. I'll probably get it after I see the movie.

number8

12-21-2012, 04:54 AM

Yeah, it doesn't even have a credited writer on the comic. I guess RM Guera and Jason Latour just adapted it themselves verbatim from QT's script.

Ezee E

12-21-2012, 05:03 AM

Yeah, it doesn't even have a credited writer on the comic. I guess RM Guera and Jason Latour just adapted it themselves verbatim from QT's script.
I read the intro from Tarantino on the comic. He talked about how he was excited to see certain scenes play out, even though he cut them from the eventual shooting script of the movie.

Melville

12-21-2012, 09:29 AM

I could probably read thru the thread, but does anyone have any good graphic novel recos (I'm in the mood for a complete, stand-alone comic story)? I recently re-read Bone, which is in my opinion among the best literary works of the last few decades. Not necessarily looking for a superhero story.
What have you read? Here are some of my favorites:

Jimmy Corrigan - Chris Ware
Louis Riel - Chester Brown
From Hell - Alan Moore & Eddie Campbell
Cerebus: Jaka's Story - Dave Sim (not really standalone, but close enough)
Hellboy: Wake the Devil - Mike Mignola
Watchmen - Alan Moore & Dave Gibbons
The Dark Knight Returns - Frank Miller
Hey, Wait… - Jason
City of Glass - P. Karasik & David Mazzucchelli
Batman: Year One - Miller & Mazzucchelli
Daredevil: Born Again - Miller & Mazzucchelli
Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde - Lorenzo Mattotti & Jerry Kramsky

Some others: Maus, Ghost World, Sin City (the earlier ones), Black Hole, Akira, Ice Haven, Marvels

Edit: I'll second meg's recommendation of Criminal. Stray Bullets is also good crime fiction, though its individual collections are less self-contained.