The Comic Book Discussion Thread

[D_Davis]

Best recs then for someone almost completely out of mainstream comics for the last ~15 years?

And sorry - not familiar with the proper comic terminology. By full runs I meant full stories, like collected in a graphic novel.

I like a lot of stuff, but I especially don't like Brian K. Vaughn.

[D_Davis]

I know I want to read Locke & Key

[Sven]

They have a lot of Valiant, it looks like. Definitely prioritize Eternal Warrior. The second arc is fantastic. Also, Unity. It's like the best blockbuster action film that could never get made.

[Sven]

Also, looks like Transformers v. GI Joe is available there. Definitely eat that up. It's as good as anything gets.

[number8]

Best recs then for someone almost completely out of mainstream comics for the last ~15 years?

And sorry - not familiar with the proper comic terminology. By full runs I meant full stories, like collected in a graphic novel.

A run refers to a writer's whole stint on a title, which can go on for a few issues or a few years. But comics get collected into trade paperbacks, and how many issues are contained in them vary. Usually every 5-6 issues for current comics, so people can catch up, or later down the line a collection of a writer's run is collected in full if it's not too many. The Rucka Wolverine run I was talking about was only 19 issues, so they released it all as one book, and Scribd has that.

Scribd isn't really a comic database where they have them in issues form. They literally just stock digital copies of various published paperbacks, so there are quite a few incomplete runs, especially for recent titles.

It's much better for standalone graphic novels if you're just browsing the service (look under Top Shelf and IDW), since for mainstream superhero stuff, you kinda have to know what TPB version/volumes to look for. One that I know for sure is complete there is Brian Michael Bendis and Ed Brubaker's runs on Daredevil, which followed one another rather seamlessly. I remember you said you like Charlie Huston's pulp crime stuff, so that might be right up your alley. Here is the reading order for that, Scribd has it in this form:

Daredevil by Bendis and Maleev Ultimate Collection Vol 1
Daredevil by Bendis and Maleev Ultimate Collection Vol 2
Daredevil by Bendis and Maleev Ultimate Collection Vol 3

Daredevil: The Devil Inside and Out Volume 1
Daredevil: The Devil Inside and Out Volume 2
Daredevil: Hell To Pay Volume 1
Daredevil: Hell To Pay Volume 2
Daredevil: Cruel and Unusual
Daredevil: Lady Bullseye
Daredevil: Return of the King

[D_Davis]

Great info, thanks guys.

[dreamdead]

Richard McGuire's Here is the kind of comic that's guaranteed to be studied and written about for some time. With each double-spread jumping to a different time period while documenting the space of a house, sometimes literally and sometimes where Native Americans or animals roamed in earlier times, McGuire's fashions a conceit that allows him to explore memory, history, and the changing cultural landscape. It moves perhaps a little too fast, as there isn't the level of fastidious narrative that anchors Ware's Building Stories, which has a sort-of similar concept of a jumbled narrative, but it remains the kind of formal study that this medium allows for.

There were several movements in the text, such as holding a child up to a window and showing her the moon, or children building forts on a sofa, that wonderfully capture nostalgia of childhood. Again, it's a little less plot-driven than something like Building Stories or Asterios Polyp but it's fascinating on its own merit.

EDIT: Also, Davis, I would recommend Asterios Polyp to you, which it looks like they have...

[number8]

Jason Latour throwing shade at Erik Larsen:

https://40.media.tumblr.com/cae3c060f74805854d95e3a0bfca2a 93/tumblr_nlbih2Vw7f1r8ybe2o1_540 .png

What I love is his mic drop tweet, though:

577534390118518784

[Grouchy]

I loved that Erik Larsen i (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8)nterview (http://www.reaxxion.com/6512/erik-larsen-speaks-on-online-outrage-women-in-comics-and-sexist-costume-designs). It sums up my feelings on this portion of comic book fans pretty well. I specially loved this quote:


The audience is not wiser than the creative people. If they were better writers and artists than those in the field, they would be employed in the field. They’re mouthy amateurs and their suggestions should largely be treated like the witless ramblings of an insane person.

Anyway, I don't understand why it's so shameful to be a male and be attracted to women. What Latour is doing in those tweets is taking some easy shots at what has become an easy target, not answer Larsen's viewpoints which are explained at lenght in the interview I linked.

[number8]

How does it not? Latour's point is pretty succinct in answering that charge to me. He's saying that superheroes should be allowed to be sexy and sexual, but maybe the old school male comic book fans of Larsen's ilk don't get to be the only ones to say what "sexy" looks like, which to me is a home run argument. There's no small amount of female fans--who make up the bulk of Barbara Gordon and Jessica Drew's fandom--who think that the new Batgirl and Spider-Woman costumes are hot as fuck, and as Latour said, it's wholly reductive to say that their idea of what sexy clothes are is somehow less valid for Marvel and DC's consideration than the male lust's traditional idea of sexy. To say otherwise is to insinuate that those characters "belong" more to the same old male fans than to the demographic Larsen calls a vocal minority, even though that vocal minority are the ones buying those books.

[Grouchy]

How does it not? Latour's point is pretty succinct in answering that charge to me. He's saying that superheroes should be allowed to be sexy and sexual, but maybe the old school male comic book fans of Larsen's ilk don't get to be the only ones to say what "sexy" looks like, which to me is a home run argument. There's no small amount of female fans--who make up the bulk of Barbara Gordon and Jessica Drew's fandom--who think that the new Batgirl and Spider-Woman costumes are hot as fuck, and as Latour said, it's wholly reductive to say that their idea of what sexy clothes are is somehow less valid for Marvel and DC's consideration than the male lust's traditional idea of sexy. To say otherwise is to insinuate that those characters "belong" more to the same old male fans than to the demographic Larsen calls a vocal minority, even though that vocal minority are the ones buying those books.
But the new Batgirl and Spider-Woman costumes (which are very much alike) are obviously created because of what Larsen is saying, to placate fans who expressed moral outrage at stupid things like Manara's cover. And again, Larsen is also right in that what matters is how the character is drawn, not the costume per se. You can still draw Spider-Woman with a huge, curvy ass and ample bosom. They just don't do it because their goddamn marketing researchers tell them not to.

The truth is, nobody knows what's going to work or not until it does or doesn't. But to try to base every creative decision on a group of screaming wannabe censors doesn't seem like the right way to approach the problem.

[number8]

The Captain Marvel and Batgirl redesigns that kicked off this trend predated that Milo Manara cover. Spider-Woman's redesign could be a form of course correction because of that incident, but if anything, it feels more like jumping on a trend that was already well underway and thought the backlash was a timely excuse to join in.

If the trend is a reaction to anything, it's more to years of dissenting opinion rather than one specific incident. Jamie McKelvie and Cameron Stewart, who designed them, are both vocal about being believers of that aesthetic as artists and also the message behind them, anyway. If you've got really good creators who prefer to have their work look appealing to a certain crowd and they can turn successful products out of that (which they have), I have a hard time understanding why people who are not their intended audience insist on shitting on that.

[Grouchy]

The Captain Marvel and Batgirl redesigns that kicked off this trend predated that Milo Manara cover. Spider-Woman's redesign could be a form of course correction because of that incident, but if anything, it feels more like jumping on a trend that was already well underway and thought the backlash was a timely excuse to join in.

If the trend is a reaction to anything, it's more to years of dissenting opinion rather than one specific incident. Jamie McKelvie and Cameron Stewart, who designed them, are both vocal about being believers of that aesthetic as artists and also the message behind them, anyway. If you've got really good creators who prefer to have their work look appealing to a certain crowd and they can turn successful products out of that (which they have), I have a hard time understanding why people who are not their intended audience insist on shitting on that.
But I'm not shitting on anything! I actually like the new Batgirl costume! I don't like that it's Barbara Gordon, I find the character more interesting as Oracle, but never mind that.

From my perspective it's the other side that's constantly "shitting on" things. This latest "controversy" was started by a cover which makes reference to a pivotal event in comics. If you don't like it, fine, but I don't see the big crime being committed by either DC or the artists.

[number8]

I was talking about Erik Larsen and his fans' shitting on female characters getting costume redesigns. I'm deeply involved in comic communities and it's just ugly to see fanboys react so angrily to Marvel and DC finally making active attempts to have a small corner of mainstream superhero comics look more appealing to young girls.

Rafael Albuquerque's cover doesn't have anything to do with the costume discussion, but I suppose it can be considered a casualty of the shift in demographic. Are you aware of what happened there? I only ask because I've argued with a lot of people who don't seem to. The outrage over that cover being pulled is insane considering everyone who actually works on the book, including Albuquerque himself, agree that a Killing Joke reference is not appropriate for the current Batgirl book's demographic. In that case, the big crime was perpetrated by the fanboys, because what happened was that readers of the book criticized the image, and then a whole barrage of people who probably don't even read Batgirl started sending those critics rape and death threats, which caused Albuquerque to disown the cover and requested that DC not publish it, since he commendably doesn't want to have those kind of supporters get their way.

577656291839119362

I think it's bizarre when people rally around a comic art but refuse to listen to the artist.

[Grouchy]

Yes, I read the whole thing, actually. People are deranged and spend too much time in front of their computer monitors is all I can take away from it.

But still, that doesn't change that there are web sites like The Outhouse or The Mary Sue which seem to be entirely devoted to "policing" (and this is not even my word) content in comic books. I don't have the same amount of spare time to spend "policing" anything. If you are that concerned about stories about people in thighs that you find offensive, then write and create your own and maybe make the comic book world a bit more diverse. Stop pissing around. Imagine if film critics dictated the studio's production policies instead of, well, box office returns. Kubrick might have been truly out of a career after 2001.

[Dukefrukem]

If I wanted to read the Civil War story line leading into Planet Hulk, where would I start?

[Winston*]

Chew is so much fun.

[Sven]

If I wanted to read the Civil War story line leading into Planet Hulk, where would I start?

Just read Planet Hulk. It gives you enough prelude to know what's going on. The Civil War stuff is pretty lame, but Planet Hulk might be Marvel's masterpiece.

[Sven]

Chew is so much fun.

Gave five volumes to my li'l sis for Christmas this year. The artwork is tremendous. Poyo is an inspiration.

[Melville]

Hey Sven, have you read the early 90s Valiant comics, or only the recent revival? How do they compare? I was a fan back in the day, but I haven't read the recent stuff.

[Melville]

Best things I've read recently:

Sundays with Walt & Skeezix. Twice as big as you can imagine. It dwarfs any coffee table book I've seen. Gorgeously designed, beautiful colors, and the most attractively serene image of familial love I've read.

When the Wind Blows. Harrowing depiction of nuclear fallout. The cartoony art style brings out the black humor with terrific irony.

Gotham Central. Excellent use of long-form serial storytelling. I didn't even realize how well I knew the characters until I got to the monumentally bleak ending. Great art too, nicely balancing roughness and rugged realism, with low contrast, dark colors building a lot of the atmosphere.

[number8]

I was always kind of chuffed that Gotham Central ended with a big crossover event. Didn't feel right, somehow.

[number8]

The artwork is tremendous.

Not just great art, but also a great example of an artist being absolutely essential to the creative process, since most of the background gags that make the book what it is are Guillory's doing.

[Melville]

I was always kind of chuffed that Gotham Central ended with a big crossover event. Didn't feel right, somehow.
Yeah, the crossover issue was a bit out of place. But I thought it was appropriate that in the final storyline that followed the crossover, no superheroes or supervillains appear, not even Batman (even if Corrigan is more cartoonishly villainish than some of the supervillains.)

I was disappointed to find out that Montoya went on to become a superhero. Between that and his Punisher work, Rucka seems to be in the habit of deflating his own endings.

[number8]

Oh wait, I totally misremembered. I thought Allen becoming The Spectre was in the last GC arc, but I guess it happened in the main Infinite Crisis itself.

[Melville]

Oh wait, I totally misremembered. I thought Allen becoming The Spectre was in the last GC arc, but I guess it happened in the main Infinite Crisis itself.
I didn't even realize Allen's death was connected to Infinite Crisis like that. I thought him becoming The Spectre must have happened years later. That's totally counter to everything GC was doing.

[number8]

Yeah, that's why I misremembered. The last few issues were intertwined with Crisis and I was reading both at the same time. I think the IC issue where Allen becomes The Spectre came out a couple of weeks after the GC issue where he died.

[Dukefrukem]

Just read Planet Hulk. It gives you enough prelude to know what's going on. The Civil War stuff is pretty lame, but Planet Hulk might be Marvel's masterpiece.

Thanks.

I still want to read Civil War though just to have read it.

[Melville]

Yeah, that's why I misremembered. The last few issues were intertwined with Crisis and I was reading both at the same time. I think the IC issue where Allen becomes The Spectre came out a couple of weeks after the GC issue where he died.
I wonder who was behind that decision. Seems like a terrible idea.

[Skitch]

Thanks.

I still want to read Civil War though just to have read it.

Its not bad. It has some great moments.

[Gittes]

So, as someone who now rarely reads comics (I've long been planning on getting back into it in some measure, though), I'm curious about Spider-Gwen. I noticed it in a comic book shop the other day and it seems kind of interesting. Any good?

I've actually noticed praise elsewhere, but I know a lot of you have pretty discerning tastes, so I'd welcome any opinions. I've heard that Silk -- something else that came out of those multiverse Spider-Man stories, I think -- is even better?

Also, do either of those require a lot of preparatory reading of other comics? Or can you dive in from issue one?

[number8]

Nah, it's its own alternate universe. You can go right in.

[Dukefrukem]

I just finished reading the Inhumans. Wow what a boring fucking race of mutants.

[Sven]

Hey Sven, have you read the early 90s Valiant comics, or only the recent revival? How do they compare? I was a fan back in the day, but I haven't read the recent stuff.

Y'know, I haven't dipped too deeply into that well, but what skimming of the surface I have done has proved worthwhile. One problem I have is the massive amount of titles and properties. Kinda glad to have the modern revamps spread over to Dynamite, because one of the best parts of the current Valiant U is its manageability. I really love the original Ninjak series, drawn by Quesada, and the original Rai. Some seriously tremendous artwork that honestly outshines a lot of Valiant's current illustration talent. Which is not to diss on some of their stylistic successes: Crain on Rai, Robert Gill on anything, Zircher's initial Shadowman arc, the uptick in Hairsine's game, CAFU nailing blockbuster thrills on Unity, etc. And the Rivera Bros on the recent Valiant event were working at a career-best pitch. But there was some truly great work done by Windsor-Smith, Lapham, Chen, Sears, etc, that looked so much better than many other comics of the time, which were busy being all super 90s.

Anyway, not too helpful. I have a lot of original Valiant on my wish list, but still have yet to go full-plunge.

[Sven]

I just finished reading the Inhumans. Wow what a boring fucking race of mutants.

Jenkins/Lee? It's way emo, but I love it all the same.

[Dukefrukem]

Jenkins/Lee? It's way emo, but I love it all the same.

Yes. I am about to start the Illuminati/ Prelude to Planet Hulk / Planet Hulk

What I really wanted to read were the events that led the Illuminati to send Hulk away. But I can't find that.

[number8]

I'm reading Infinite Kung Fu right now. This is dope.

[number8]

What I really wanted to read were the events that led the Illuminati to send Hulk away. But I can't find that.

That's Prelude to Planet Hulk.

[Dukefrukem]

That's Prelude to Planet Hulk.

All that is is Hulk fighting some Hydra satellite and then Fury saying: "oh btw, bye Hulk" at the end. (it's also terribly written )

What I want is the events that made Fury and the Illuminati come to that decision. Was there anything before that?

[number8]

Doesn't the Prelude to Planet Hulk trade also collect the Fantastic Four issues where he fights the Thing and destroys Vegas?

EDIT: Yeah, it does:


Collecting FANTASTIC FOUR #533-535 and INCREDIBLE HULK #88-91

[Dukefrukem]

Please link me to where you are reading that. Mine does not include that (http://www.amazon.com/Incredible-Hulk-Prelude-Planet/dp/0785119531/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1428606404&sr=8-2&keywords=Planet+Hulk+Prelude). (Daniel Way)

[number8]

http://marvel.com/comics/collection/34245/hulk_planet_hulk_prelude_trade _paperback

http://www.amazon.com/Hulk-Planet-Prelude-Incredible/dp/0785143777

[Dukefrukem]

How the F did I buy the wrong one???

Thanks.

[dreamdead]

Revival readers--does the series improve after the first volume? I read it on Tuesday night, and was left thinking there's some good ideas in it but nothing that jarred me into thinking it's anything other than decent...

The second volume of Lazarus, on the other hand, continued its slow play. Generally, I like that, but it feels like Rucka is making the adult Forever almost a little too guileless in not deciphering that her family is acting against her. Still, a lot of the material with young Forever stands out as strong enough to make me want the third volume.

[number8]

I thought Revival was pretty bad. Never bothered further.

You should continue with Lazarus. I find it amusing that Rucka claims he's never read or watched Game of Thrones. Not that I doubt him, but the last few issues especially have been very reminiscent of it.

[Acapelli]

Yeah, the crossover issue was a bit out of place. But I thought it was appropriate that in the final storyline that followed the crossover, no superheroes or supervillains appear, not even Batman (even if Corrigan is more cartoonishly villainish than some of the supervillains.)

I was disappointed to find out that Montoya went on to become a superhero. Between that and his Punisher work, Rucka seems to be in the habit of deflating his own endings.
i love rucka's question stuff. 52 is excellent

[number8]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SVEN.

586593673267249153

[Sven]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SVEN.

586593673267249153

Very cool. I figured they were just going to release the second arc collected and skip the issues altogether. Good to know this will not be one of the great unfinished serieses.

[megladon8]

Been any good horror comics lately?

Was Snyder's "Wytches" any good?

[Sven]

Been any good horror comics lately?

Was Snyder's "Wytches" any good?

Dunno about Wytches, but the fifth issue of Justin Jordan's Dark Gods comes out today. It is a pretty creative horror yarn. Interesting art collaborations. Also, nobody's been talking about Nameless, but it's very good so far.

[number8]

Nameless is very creepy.

Second issue of Sabrina finally came out today. The first issue was also very creepy.

[Dukefrukem]

8 I need your help again.

I just finished reading Illuminati. Was cool, but they referenced soooo much stuff that I want to read and I have no idea how to find the trades for them.

In issue 5;

there's a Skrull they killed who had shape shifted to resemble Electra.

They're arguing on their next steps and Stark references "the avengers destroyed, "the mutants are all but gone"... Atlantis destroyed and Captain America is dead


Can you point me to the trades he's referring to here in these 4 events? I don't know how to find them. Are some of these in Civil War? If yes, how the hell do I determine what order to read these in?

[number8]

1. http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Disassembled-Brian-Michael-Bendis/dp/078512294X

2. http://www.amazon.com/House-M-Brian-Michael-Bendis/dp/0785117210/

3. http://www.amazon.com/Civil-War-Front-Line-Book/dp/0785124691/

4. http://www.amazon.com/Death-Captain-America-Vol-Dream-ebook/dp/B00AAJQXZM/

[Dukefrukem]

Thanks 8. Last question for now:

Is that Civil War: Front Line, Book 2- and Book 1 (http://www.amazon.com/Civil-War-Front-Line-Book-ebook/dp/B00ARKCQ28/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1429385778&sr=8-3&keywords=Marvel+Civil+War+Book +1), included in This (http://www.amazon.com/Civil-War-Mark-Millar/dp/078512179X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1429385863&sr=1-1&keywords=Civil+War)?

[number8]

No.

[number8]

Are you buying these digital?

[Dukefrukem]

Are you buying these digital?

No.

[Sven]

Pretty sure if I was to do a favorite comics list now, #1 would be the war comics of Garth Ennis. It's hard to fathom their excellence.

[Melville]

Y'know, I haven't dipped too deeply into that well, but what skimming of the surface I have done has proved worthwhile. One problem I have is the massive amount of titles and properties. Kinda glad to have the modern revamps spread over to Dynamite, because one of the best parts of the current Valiant U is its manageability. I really love the original Ninjak series, drawn by Quesada, and the original Rai. Some seriously tremendous artwork that honestly outshines a lot of Valiant's current illustration talent. Which is not to diss on some of their stylistic successes: Crain on Rai, Robert Gill on anything, Zircher's initial Shadowman arc, the uptick in Hairsine's game, CAFU nailing blockbuster thrills on Unity, etc. And the Rivera Bros on the recent Valiant event were working at a career-best pitch. But there was some truly great work done by Windsor-Smith, Lapham, Chen, Sears, etc, that looked so much better than many other comics of the time, which were busy being all super 90s.

Anyway, not too helpful. I have a lot of original Valiant on my wish list, but still have yet to go full-plunge.
Yeah, Windsor-Smith was killing it. I recommend his Archer & Armstrong stuff if you haven't read it. I might check out the current incarnation of Rai, which looks nicely strange.


i love rucka's question stuff. 52 is excellent
I haven't read it, but my gut reaction is that it would needlessly undermine the grim ending of Gotham Central. Montoya's story felt complete to me. And GC was all about the cops being on the outside of the superhero world. Bringing her inside that world seems like it would spoil an essential aspect of her story.

[Dukefrukem]

From Civil War: I burst out laughing when I read this

http://www.comixity.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/CivilWar6-1.jpg

I would love for the Punisher to be in a scene like this in Civil War.

https://berkeleyplacecomics.files.word press.com/2013/04/img_2786.jpg

[Sven]

I would love for the Punisher to be in a scene like this in Civil War.

https://berkeleyplacecomics.files.word press.com/2013/04/img_2786.jpg

I can't click with a sentimental Punisher. A simple "no" would've been just as telling and more characteristic.

[Dukefrukem]

I can't click with a sentimental Punisher. A simple "no" would've been just as telling and more characteristic.

Yeh but it's Cap.

[Dukefrukem]

So i'm pretty much an expert on Captain America now.

What should I read next?

[megladon8]

I need to get back into comics.

It's just such an expensive (and space-consuming) hobby.

[megladon8]

Been reading about this Image title called "Godland".

Sounds interesting.

[Sven]

Godland is pretty cool. Starts and ends incredibly. Midway, it becomes pretty dense, and not just in terms of concentrated information, but also just kinda sloggy and phoned-in. Tom Scioli is a genius, and he's done better work. He's the brain behind the current GI Joe/Transformers crossover that is one of the best comics, period. He's also responsible for a top ten title of mine, American Barbarian, which if you haven't read yet, be careful when you do - its brilliance might blind you.

http://www.ambarb.com/comics/2011-12-06ambarb.jpg

[Sven]

So i'm pretty much an expert on Captain America now.

What should I read next?

I'm curious what you'd think about Peter Milligan's Human Target. Not much of it is collected, but maybe it's available digitally...?

[Dukefrukem]

I'm curious what you'd think about Peter Milligan's Human Target. Not much of it is collected, but maybe it's available digitally...?

Sorry I meant in the Marvel Universe.

I'll put that on my short list, but I'm on a Marvel tear right now.

[D_Davis]

http://40.media.tumblr.com/a956fb4cd445d343e9f01062a02eb8 a7/tumblr_mte8pexcsN1qee52wo4_128 0.jpg

http://jakewyattriot.tumblr.com/tagged/necropolispage/chrono

http://36.media.tumblr.com/031dc9c247778406b9a2095f7c7e76 2f/tumblr_nnl82jSeTO1qee52wo1_128 0.jpg
(http://jakewyattriot.tumblr.com/tagged/necropolispage/chrono)

[megladon8]

Sven - took your always much appreciated recommendation and pre-ordered the complete American Barbarian collection, releasing in August.

[Grouchy]

Sorry I meant in the Marvel Universe.

I'll put that on my short list, but I'm on a Marvel tear right now.
You already did this with Punisher, right? I forget. If not, read everything Garth Ennis.

Also read everything Ennis did with Nick Fury.

Everything Frank Miller did with Daredevil. And Brian Michael Bendis.

New X-Men by Grant Morrison.

Thor by Walt Simonson.

[Dukefrukem]

Yup. I've read every Punisher run created.

I've added all of those to my wishlist. I decided to read through Avengers/New Avengers up until Secret Wars first and based on the discussion in the Marvel Now thread.

THanks for the input.

[sevenarts]

Since I was talking about top superhero runs in the Marvel thread: top 10 superhero runs, totally off the cuff, might change tomorrow. Real runs, purposefully excluding self-contained stuff like Watchmen or DKR or whatever.

Morrison on Batman
Hickman on FF
Englehart/Rogers on Detective Comics
DeMatteis on Dr. Fate
Milligan/Allred on X-Force/X-Statix

Ostrander/Yale on Suicide Squad
Kirby on New Gods
Morrison on Doom Patrol
Helfer/Sienkiewicz/Baker on The Shadow
Remender on X-Force

[megladon8]

Anyone have thoughts on Morrison's Annihilator?

[Sven]

Waiting to read the last issue before getting too succinct with it. It reads well though. Lots of symbolic and metaphysical layering, like we've come to expect from G-Moz, and Irving's artwork is his best to-date. I have a few reservations, but I'm willing to backburner those until I read the last issue.

[megladon8]

Got a few recommends from Amazon that sound interesting...

Trees - Ellis / Howard

Low - Remender / Tocchini

Spread - Jordan / Strahm

Roche Limit - Ferrier / Boyd

[Melville]

Since I was talking about top superhero runs in the Marvel thread: top 10 superhero runs, totally off the cuff, might change tomorrow. Real runs, purposefully excluding self-contained stuff like Watchmen or DKR or whatever.

After thinking about this, I realized that very few of my favorite comics are parts of ongoing superhero series. If nothing else, they're too often hampered by uneven artwork. The best I could come up with for a top 5 is almost all Batman- or Daredevil-related:

Miller & Mazzucchelli on Daredevil
Fraction & Aja on Hawkeye
Miller & Mazzucchelli on Batman
Rucka & Brubaker et al on Gotham Central
Bendis & Maleev on Daredevil

Hickman's FF definitely builds to something great "All hope lies in Doom"!. In that and his Avengers run, he nails portentousness like no other comics writer I can think of. Sometimes there's so much portent that any given cataclysm feels meaningless, but it's an interesting style.

[sevenarts]

Gotham Central's a really good choice, probably should have been on my list too. I love that book so much. Also realized I forgot Baron/Rude on Nexus, that's another I should have included, though it's arguably more sci-fi/space opera than a superhero title. Also forgot Giffen/DeMatteis on JLI/JLA/JLE/JLQ.

I think there's a lot to be said for the unique possibilities of runs on ongoing series as compared to minis/graphic novels. The latter has obvious benefits in terms of consistency and focus, and the ability to tell a tightly structured short story, but longer serials provide unique storytelling possibilities and ways of thinking about structure that aren't available in shorter, more finite forms. The best long runs - I'm thinking especially of my top 2, Morrison's Batman and Hickman's FF - really play with structure in fascinating ways, and when a writer like Morrison or Hickman is on an ongoing book, they're thinking very long-term, spinning out ideas that can resonate in multiple ways across a number of subplots and shorter stories. A good mini/graphic novel is a movie while a true run is more like serial TV, and both have their merits.

[number8]

All good choices. I'd add Joshua Dysart's current run on Harbinger on the list. He's definitely Valiant's Hickman.

[Sven]

If Dysart is Valiant's Hickman, then Kindt must be their Remender. Prolific and bold, telling big sci-fi stories with ambitious reverberations. I prefer Unity to Harbinger, although my love for Imperium is definitely edging my favor that direction. Such a great book so far.

To that end, lemme bitch a second: Valiant's very attractive world-building, even on the backs of middle-tier writers like Fred Van Lente and Robert Venditti, has been unsuccessful in converting me to the merits of either Jeff Lemire or Ales Kot. "Trite" comes to mind. Lemire's Bloodshot is everything his contributions to The Valiant led me to fear it would be. That this guy is thought of as a capable storyteller is beyond me. And don't even get me started on Kot's issue of Dead Drop. Gorham's artwork gives it much life, but there are too many limp stabs at intrigue and confusing build-ups, not to mention Kot's ever-present insistence on wearing his inspirations so baldly that he's practically asking to be accused of plagiarism.

Sigh. Rant over. I'm trying to stay positive.

[megladon8]

I haven't read any of his Valiant stuff, but Lemire has written some of my favorite stuff of recent years. And I adore his artwork as well.

I've seen a lot of hate towards his work on comic-centric forums, from many of the same people who used to heap praise on him before he "made it big".

It's a trend that happens with comic creators more often than any other art form from what I've seen. Lemire is another in a long line of creators whose fans turned to haters when they began to make "big" titles - Bendis, Vaughan, Snyder, Waid. Heck, even Hickman (whom I love and is loved here on MC) has been getting absolutely trashed on comic forums since he began doing mainstream Marvel comics.

Hope I'm clear that I'm not saying that's the fuel for your dislike of Lemire. Just had a rough day and vented some frustration. :)

[sevenarts]

I like Lemire but think he's not well suited to big superhero books. I like his indie series, particularly Essex County, but his strengths don't translate quite right into a superhero context. And he's best when he draws as well as writes.

I feel the same way about Kindt. I absolutely love his creator-owned spy stuff but I have yet to read a Marvel or DC or Valiant book he does that has even a fraction of the energy, wit, or depth of Mind Mgmt or Super Spy. I know Sven loves him at Valiant, but to me Unity is just the emptiest, dullest superhero book imaginable. I don't get the sense Kindt is even a bit engaged by this stuff, whereas Mind Mgmt crackles with so much fun and intrigue and quirky Easter eggs in every issue. It's all too obvious when Kindt really cares and when it's a paycheck. I don't begrudge him doing the work to support himself but I also don't get holding it up as a creative success at all.

On the other hand, Hickman has done some of his best work at Marvel. Honestly, though he's got several very good series at Image running now, nothing he had done outside the Big Two prior to starting FF came close to that or his Avengers.

[number8]

I like Lemire but think he's not well suited to big superhero books. I like his indie series, particularly Essex County, but his strengths don't translate quite right into a superhero context. And he's best when he draws as well as writes.

I'd take it further than that. It doesn't translate to long form narrative at all. Sweet Tooth fell apart halfway through and went on 15 issues longer than the story has to offer.

[sevenarts]

He's bad at endings, for sure. Sweet Tooth fell apart towards the end and even the mini Trillium - which throughout was great and had some of Lemire's most ambitious, formally daring work - had a lackluster anticlimax for a conclusion.

[EyesWideOpen]

Coming up with a top ten superhero run is a hell of a task especially when you've been out of comics for a few years so here's what came to mind in no particular order:

Gotham Central / Brubaker, Rucka, Lark
Runaways / BKV & Alphona
Alias / Bendis & Gaydos
Starman / Robinson & Harris
Villains United/Secret Six / Simone
Birds of Prey / Simone
Captain America / Brubaker & Epting
Planetary / Ellis & Cassaday
Batgirl / Bryan Q Miller
Daredevil / Bendis & Maleev

[number8]

He's bad at endings, for sure. Sweet Tooth fell apart towards the end and even the mini Trillium - which throughout was great and had some of Lemire's most ambitious, formally daring work - had a lackluster anticlimax for a conclusion.

I think the backlash with Brian K Vaughan is this same issue. He was at his most universally popular in the mid-2000s when he had Y: The Last Man, Ex Machina, and Runaways all going on at the same time, and the naysaying started right around the time of the lukewarm reception to their endings.

Which is why it was really funny to me that he took a hiatus from comics to write for LOST.

[sevenarts]

It's been a long time since I read it but I remember liking the ending of Y the Last Man a lot. The big time-jump was really well-done and a nice, unexpected way to close things off. I appreciated that Vaughan defused expectations a bit towards the end and didn't just tidily explain everything, tie up loose ends, and call it quits. Although I guess a lot of people wanted something neater and more conventionally climactic.

I could never get into Ex Machina enough to read it to the end. I hated Harris' art on that book with a passion, too.

[megladon8]

To be clear I'm not at all saying that people who don't like BKV/Lemire/Loeb etc. are posers.

Just the folks who were rabid fans of Runaways and Ex Machina, then a few years down the line claim the books were always terrible and they never liked them. Same for those who loved Essex County and The Nobody, then Lemire becomes a household name at DC and suddenly those same folks are saying everything he has ever done is crap.

A lot of that goes on in comics fandom and it drives me bonkers. The selective likes and dislikes based on what's popular is asinine.

I wasn't much of a fan of Sweet Tooth, but The Nobody and Trillium are both astounding works.

[ledfloyd]

Starman is one of the big superhero runs that I need to get around to at some point.

My top ten would be something like:

Morrison's Batman
Hickman's Fantastic Four
Moore's Swamp Thing
Bendis's Daredevil
Morrison's New X-Men
Gaiman's Sandman
Rucka/Brubaker's Gotham Central
Brubaker's Captain America (despite the fact that it really declined towards the end)
Remender's X-Force
Whedon's Astonishing X-Men

Worth noting that I haven't read much pre-late '90s that wasn't written by Moore or Morrison.

[EyesWideOpen]

The Starman Omnibuses which have in depth discussions with Robinson after every issue were some of the best collections I've ever read. Made me enjoy them even more then if I was just reading the issues on their own. And to clarify Gaiman's Sandman would be in my top ten but I don't really consider that a superhero book.

[megladon8]

The Starman collections are indeed fantastic.

Also ADORE the Fourth World collections.

[Dukefrukem]

I'm thinking about putting together a Battle of the Comic Book characters. Marvel vs DC. (much like my battle of the horror movie characters which I never finished)

Is that something people would be interested in participating?

EDIT: OR maybe just Marvel vs Marvel, see who comes out in the top 10, then do DC vs DC and then Marvel vs DC.

[Gittes]

Also, nobody's been talking about Nameless, but it's very good so far.


Nameless is very creepy.

I was browsing a local comic book shop and I saw issues 2 and 3. It looks good. Unfortunately, they didn't have the first issue, but there's another place that might have a few. I could go digital but I'm not sure about the pros and cons of that format. I've now heard that the Spider-Gwen comics aren't that great, and I was planning on using that my reentry point back into reading comics. Nameless might be a better bet.

I'm still curious about Saga and the older Hawkeye series (not the new reboot) but I heard the latter takes a nosedive in quality near the end. I think I brought this up before, but I can't recall if anyone made a strong argument for either of those. Everyone seems to love Saga, though...actually, I think I remember Sven being a voice of dissent on that.

[sevenarts]

The older Hawkeye series (written by Matt Fraction) is very good indeed. I don't think it took a nosedive towards the end. It's just been a bit frustrating to read due to long delays, but the actual comics are still quite good. We're still waiting for the last issue even though the reboot has already started, though.

Saga is enjoyable. You'll find it's polarizing: a lot of people seem to think it's godlike while a vocal minority thinks it's trash. The truth is somewhere in between, it's a fun sci-fi space opera.

[Melville]

Fraction's Hawkeye is awesome. A great mix of overt cleverness and pathos—and I usually dislike that combination. It's full of self-aware devices that could be gimmicky, but they're always used in fun ways that bolster the characterization, humor, and sentiment. Aja's artwork is also some of the best around, very reminiscent of Mazzucchelli's superhero work but with a greater focus on designy, ideographic layouts. There are quite a few issues not drawn by Aja, which aren't nearly as good but are wisely kept in a parallel storyline, avoiding a feeling of inconsistency. Overall, I don't think there's been a dip in quality, and I think the whole thing will hang together really well when it's finished.

I found Saga obnoxious, but I only read the first issue.

[Gittes]

Ah, OK. Thanks.

I forgot to mention Here, by Richard McGuire, which sounds fantastic. Chris Ware wrote a glowing piece about it (http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/dec/17/chris-ware-here-richard-mcguire-review-graphic-novel), which is what sparked my interest.

[Grouchy]

I have a love-hate relationship with Saga.

On the one hand, some of its ideas are incredible. The Open Circuit, the Robot Kingdom and the magic the people from Wreath use... all amazing concepts. I've read all four volumes and there are plenty of brilliant sci-fi moments and attractive visuals. As sevenarts says, it's a great example of the space opera genre.

On the other hand, Vaughan tries to give it this "hip", modern sensibility which is cringe-inducing. The dialogue is often terrible. Everyone sounds exactly the same and cracks the same type of jokes. Whenever it tries to say something meaningful about relationships it really sucks. Also, Alana is an annoying character. I was much more of a Gwendolyn fan to be honest.

[number8]

To that end, lemme bitch a second: Valiant's very attractive world-building, even on the backs of middle-tier writers like Fred Van Lente and Robert Venditti, has been unsuccessful in converting me to the merits of either Jeff Lemire or Ales Kot.

Going back a bit on this. I've been thinking about it and I think Valiant is actually stronger when they went for these middle-tier writers who have only found middling success at Marvel and DC, because it seems like the perfect playground for these types of talents who need the editorial guidance and clear direction that a shared-universe publishing company provides, but also the freedom for world-building and risky plotting that only a rebooted small universe with a limited number of titles would allow, not unlike the early years of Ultimate Marvel.

It's almost like these great works are pouring out of these people who have been itching to do big, mythology-defining superhero comics for years but never got the okay to do so and now they're finally given the right catalogue to prove their mettle with. Dysart, Van Lente, Venditti, Gage, and Asmus are hitting these breakout strides at Valiant that I don't think the likes of Kot, Lemire, Milligan, Pak, and--I like Unity a lot but I'm gonna lump him in on this--Kindt are matching, perhaps because they've already been handed top Marvel and DC books and made their marks on them.

[Sven]

I'll be the first to confess that his Shadowman is among Milligan's weakest works, particularly since it was coming out at the same time as Terminal Hero (his best book in years) and The Names. But Pak's Eternal Warrior is one of their best modern serieses so far, and Kindt's work not just on Unity, but on Ninjak and Rai and Divinity (on track to be one of the best four-issue minis in existence) definitely skyrockets his rep into the ozone. It's sad to see Dysart listed as middle tier. All his work is incredible (except that Demon yakuza book), so I'm happy he's found a stride with Valiant.

But despite all those you've listed also having been given fairly major Big Two titles, I get what you're saying. Valiant's slow universe-rollout was the smart decision, and their editors are clearly much more ready to permit idiosyncrasies with content and plotting mandates. I think I'm most impressed with Van Lente, whose Marvel stuff I can't even read, and Venditti's Green Lantern, which is basically XO, is utterly nonsensical. It feels like both of those writers are often victims of being hired to toe the line. I also appreciate the modest cycling of talent, letting the writers stay on titles to develop the long run.

[number8]

It's sad to see Dysart listed as middle tier. All his work is incredible (except that Demon yakuza book), so I'm happy he's found a stride with Valiant.

Did you like his Avril Lavigne manga?

But seriously though, yeah he's a fantastic writer, but he's also been bounced around so much and under recognized. I mean, he was writing Swamp Thing for two years and most people have forgotten about that run. And yes to what you said about Van Lente and Venditti. Those two are the best examples of what I was thinking about, actually, because you have that direct point of comparison, which you mentioned with X-O Manowar and Green Lantern. Similarly with Van Lente, the only work of his I kind of liked was Hercules, but more for the characterization than their interaction with the Marvel universe. Archer & Armstrong is extremely similar to his take on Herc, but with greater uninterrupted freedom to play around with the myths that he got to be one of the architects of. So A&A ends up reading like the unfiltered, ideal version of Hercules. And it makes me wonder if Harbinger is the best possible version of Marvel hiring Dysart to take control of the X-Men books, etc etc.

Lemire was one of the master builders of the New 52 and got to re-establish a lot of heroes and orchestrated crossovers where he got to write anyone he wanted, on top of DC letting him do whatever he wants at Vertigo. What the Valiant universe has to offer for him is not much. I suppose the same goes to Milligan, who I can't believe failed at following Justin freaking Jordan.

[Sven]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that manga. Always meant to read it but still haven't. I don't have high hopes.

I kinda like Justin Jordan. That first SM arc with teh Zirch wasn't bad, and his Dark Gods mini at Avatar impressed me. A bizarre balance of loopy and grotesque, with a nicely clipped pace. I was less impressed with Spread, though I liked the art.

I think Lemire's concept for Bloodshot is actually pretty cool, though I'm skeptical of how far he can take it. I'm happy that someone has work, obviously, and Valiant could maybe use some Lemire cash. But I lament Swierczynski's absence. His retreat to X at Dark Horse was a step down, and his Godzilla/Dread stuff is, well...

[Sven]

I think Lemire's concept for Bloodshot is actually pretty cool, though I'm skeptical of how far he can take it. I'm happy that someone has work, obviously, and Valiant could maybe use some Lemire cash. But I lament Swierczynski's absence. His retreat to X at Dark Horse was a step down, and his Godzilla/Dread stuff is, well...

Beh. Just like that, I'm off the book. I wish Lemire's writing equaled his illustrating talent, but it is not even close. So long, Bloodshot. Come back when you're written by Joe Kelly. What even has that guy been doing, anyway?

[Dukefrukem]

I'm kinda liking Bloodshot Reborn.

[Sven]

I'm kinda liking Bloodshot Reborn.

Bloodsquirt is a limp Batmite ripoff (can't even say "nod," and Kay's spectre has yet to be meaningful), the agents' dialogue is as dunderheaded as it gets (without any winks), and now the concept extending to his having to recollect his nanites from the infected killers undoes the intrigue of the initial psych-concept. Could stick with it for Suayan, but just gonna bail instead. Especially since...

...I'm subscribing to three new Image books. 1) Kaptara, which this second issue had me laughing-out-loud on more than one page, 2) Valhalla Mad, which is a night of drunken revelry told with ecstatic Kirby/Lee Norse God patter, and 3) Mythic, which could still go either way, but I was hooked to what McCrea was doing.

Also, for those still unsure, Ninjak 3 is pure, brilliant Kindt. Read it and tell me it's not a damn fine comic - do that and I'll call you a liar.

[megladon8]

Who pre-ordered volume 1 of Darth Vader?

This guy.

[number8]

Great read:

The Secret History of Ultimate Marvel, the Experiment That Changed Superheroes Forever (http://www.vulture.com/2015/05/secret-history-of-ultimate-marvel.html)

[megladon8]

Anyone else read Lone Sloane?

Holy crap.

[number8]

Mainstream media always get so hopped up whenever Marvel or DC announces any comic that's the slightest bit female friendly these days, but I wish what Dynamite Comics is currently doing with SWORDS OF SORROW got more press because it is an insane--INSANE--doubling down on girl power-ing. They took the biz's biggest women writers (Gail Simone, G. Willow Wilson, Leah Moore, Marguerite Bennett, Nancy Collins, etc) and got them all to get together to write this absurd crossover event where all the female characters from Dynamite's original comics and the pulp novels they've got licensing for team up.

Vampirella meets Jane from Tarzan meets Irene Adler meets Red Sonja meets Kato's daughter meets Jennifer Blood meets Lady Zorro meets the Princess of Mars meets like a dozen more pop culture heroines. It's bloody bonkers and a hilariously gleeful bit of retro-progressivism by this group of women tackling on the creations of Victorian and Depression era male writers. What a nutty comic book.

[Acapelli]

Mainstream media always get so hopped up whenever Marvel or DC announces any comic that's the slightest bit female friendly these days, but I wish what Dynamite Comics is currently doing with SWORDS OF SORROW got more press because it is an insane--INSANE--doubling down on girl power-ing. They took the biz's biggest women writers (Gail Simone, G. Willow Wilson, Leah Moore, Marguerite Bennett, Nancy Collins, etc) and got them all to get together to write this absurd crossover event where all the female characters from Dynamite's original comics and the pulp novels they've got licensing for team up.

Vampirella meets Jane from Tarzan meets Irene Adler meets Red Sonja meets Kato's daughter meets Jennifer Blood meets Lady Zorro meets the Princess of Mars meets like a dozen more pop culture heroines. It's bloody bonkers and a hilariously gleeful bit of retro-progressivism by this group of women tackling on the creations of Victorian and Depression era male writers. What a nutty comic book.
be nice if the covers didn't make me look like a pervert while i was buying them

http://i58.tinypic.com/2mxrion.jpg

j scott cambell sucks

[Dukefrukem]

j scott cambell sucks

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/3198714-sideshow-collectibles-69+copy.jpg

[Acapelli]

was maybe a fan during my preteen phase of reading comics, but definitely don't care for his work now

[EyesWideOpen]

be nice if the covers didn't make me look like a pervert while i was buying them

http://i58.tinypic.com/2mxrion.jpg

j scott cambell sucks

That cover completely invalidates everything number8 is praising about Dynamite.

[Acapelli]

That cover completely invalidates everything number8 is praising about Dynamite.
one of my least favorite things about dynamite comics is reading one of their comics on the train, like captain victory, and then getting to the back and seeing their porny ads for like, red sonja or that queen of mars book, and feeling like a perv

[sevenarts]

Yeah without having read the book, I thought it was odd to single it out for being so feminist or pro-woman or whatever when all the ads and covers for it are just the sleaziest thing imaginable. That kind of stuff is just catering to one of the very lowest tiers of comic fandom, aiming juuuuuust above the people who buy Avatar variant covers (although let's be honest, the audiences probably overlap). The book could be as fun and progressive as number8 suggests but there's a pretty good reason it's not getting recognized for it.

[Sven]

Your sanctimony is shocking.

I think packaging radical content in traditional garb is a great way to get a message through. It could be that they don't want to broadcast these books under any political banners. Maybe that makes them more subversive. While also not denying those that enjoy it an eyeful of curves. Not my thing, but I do have a few Avatar variants...

[number8]

Oddly, the cover they include in the press releases and announcements for the first issue was the variant cover by Tula Lotay. I actually thought this was the regular cover until the issue came out and it's the J. Scott Campbell one.


http://www.midtowncomics.com/images/product/xl/1421941_xl.jpg

[sevenarts]

That's a much better cover, unsurprisingly.

[Dukefrukem]

Ummmmm... WTF? Is anyone reading Star Wars? If not, prepare to have your mind blown.... this is cannon btw.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--G_nXV5zx--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_63 6/1280927414448230725.jpg

[megladon8]

Ha I was just gonna post about that.

The Marvel Star Wars comics have been great in general, but that is all kinds of awful.

Total misstep for Aaron there.

[number8]

I'm actually surprised that people think it's that big of a deal. Isn't this basically a well worn trope at this point?

[Winston*]

I'm actually surprised that people think it's that big of a deal. Isn't this basically a well worn trope at this point?

Yeah, and seems totally within Han Solo's character.

[megladon8]

I just think it's stupid. Not a big deal. Just stupid.

[Dukefrukem]

I think it's a huge deal. And I don't like it.

[megladon8]

The Darth Vader comic is phenomenal.

Loved the team put together by the Emperor to eliminate Jedi. That whole idea of using technology to give non-force-having folks comparable powers was inspired.

[Sven]

That Brian Wood's quality-to-output ratio is emaciated, and also given that I feel like I should be boycotting him for his douchebag imperative, I am conflictedly pleased to endorse at least the first issue of Starve. Great concept, great execution.

[D_Davis]

I'm not quite sure what that Star Wars page is implying.

Is it shocking to some because Han's wife is black?

[Sven]

I'm not quite sure what that Star Wars page is implying.

Is it shocking to some because Han's wife is black?

I don't think there's much race shock in the Star Wars U these days. The outrage is that it makes the whole romance with Leia an infidelity situation, not a dashing attachless rogue situation. Or maybe just the marriage dimension on its own overcomplicates the character...? I don't know. All I say is, think for a moment if you want to be someone still being upset by something dumb happening in Star Wars.

[megladon8]

Is Moore's Miracle Man any good?

[megladon8]

Anyone else read Snyder's The Wake?

That got real weird.

[Sven]

To answer to both of those:

Yes, it is. Mostly for its brilliant illustration, though, in my opinion. We are currently in an age where the superhero ideal has been effectively deconstructed so many times over that the angle has lost its novelty. It's still well-written, and gets pretty fantastical, which is fun, but it is not as earth-shattering as I assume it once was.

And yes, it did. But aside from Murphy igniting that book with his abundantly imaginative renderings, I thought its concepts were overexplained and undercooked. Pretty much Snyder's stock and trade.

[megladon8]

Thanks for the feedback!

Re: The Wake. I felt it was very exposition heavy. I loved the turn from horror to existential sci fi (the most exciting modern genre work is the stuff that turns genres on their heads), but it would have been more affecting had it been more emotionally resonant and vague in its conceptualization, rather than what we got which was the exact opposite.

Loved the concept, could have had a more unique and thoughtful approach. Don't explain it all to me, give me a beautiful skeleton and let me build my own flesh.

[sevenarts]

The first half of the Wake was such good, effective horror, I found the sci-fi half purely laughable though. The last issue in particular was just utter gibberish. Beyond half-baked, the concepts were just thrown out there in the clumsiest possible fashion. Artless and unsatisfying as either a story, a parable, or a character piece, and especially disappointing given how good Murphy's art was throughout. Snyder is so frustrating. He can be good, especially when he's doing something in a pure horror vein (Severed, American Vampire, the first half of the Wake) or a pulpy genre tale (The Black Mirror). But his strengths seem to be overpowered by his excesses more and more often of late, as seen especially in his incredibly inconsistent Batman run, which like the Wake squanders some frequently jaw-dropping art with badly undeveloped concepts.

Miracleman is great. Sven's right that it probably doesn't seem as novel today as it once did but I think it holds up quite well. As far as superhero deconstruction goes, it takes its ideas further and to ultimately bolder places than the much more famous Watchmen. The coloring in the new Marvel reprints leaves a lot to be desired unfortunately, I've been waiting a long time to see this collected and now I'm not even sure I want these books.

[megladon8]

Think I'm going to tackle Moore's Neonomicon next.

Still in a horror comic mood.

[number8]

Speaking of, the first issue of Providence was quite good.

[megladon8]

Read the introductory 2-issue story "The Courtyard" from Moore's Neonomicon.

That was something else. Hope the rest of it keeps this up. Could be one of the best pieces of mythos fiction I've ever read.

[megladon8]

Having a heck of a time finding any lists or publications with recommendations for other (available) horror comics to check out.

I didn't think the genre was that...niche?

[Grouchy]

Read the introductory 2-issue story "The Courtyard" from Moore's Neonomicon.

That was something else. Hope the rest of it keeps this up. Could be one of the best pieces of mythos fiction I've ever read.
You should read the rest of the book on a bus or somewhere crowded so that random people can eavesdrop the images. I swear to you it enhances the experience.

[megladon8]

Wow. Ya. That was...umm...explicit.

Still a great story, but I think I liked The Courtyard more than the actual Neonomicon piece. It also becomes much more a "you must be a Lovecraft fan to get anything out of this" type of deal.

[megladon8]

Started Strange Embrace.

Very cool so far. Great set up.

[Sven]

Ambled to the bookstore to pick up the Pistolwhip collection today, strolling around in a sunny post-nap grog, listening to Welch-era Fleetwood Mac in my earphones. Read 80% of the book while sipping on some afternoon beer, eating a delicious chicken pasta salad/spam slider luncheon. Think I might go take another nap.

And that's what I've been doing today.

[Sven]

Started Strange Embrace.

Very cool so far. Great set up.

A cool book. Definitely had me on edge, every chapter leaving me worried about how much more messed up things were gonna get.

[megladon8]

The last two issues I read of Strange Embrace, I did with tears in my eyes.

The themes of sexual shame, suppression and confusion are bringing about a lot of deep emotions and even memories for me.

Hitting very close to home.

[Grouchy]

Wow. Ya. That was...umm...explicit.

Still a great story, but I think I liked The Courtyard more than the actual Neonomicon piece. It also becomes much more a "you must be a Lovecraft fan to get anything out of this" type of deal.
I always read them as one single story and only found out later that they were originally published apart. But I disagree with you, I think Neonomicon is perfect for both hardcore Lovecraft fans and people who know nothing about the Mythos. It's fairly self-explanatory, has lots of carefully concealed exposition and it also expands the legend of the coming of Cthulhu in ways no other author I know of has attempted.

Will check out Strange Embrace. Looks all sorts of different.

[megladon8]

So yeah Strange Embrace was something else. Tragic, perverse, and deeply affecting.

Just to clarify regarding my previous post - I was never sexually abused in any way. I just had (and in many ways have) a significant amount of sexual shame and even confusion. I found that part of the story quite visceral, and it hit me hard.

[megladon8]

After spending nearly 3 hours browsing the deepest corners of the inter webs, I now have a list as long as my arm of horror comics I'm dying to check out.

I've also decided that if I ever win the lottery, I would like to have all of the hardcover archives of Creepy, Eerie, Tales from the Crypt and Vault of Horror.

[Sven]

Is Ennis's Caliban on that list?

Also, I'm a fan of anything Bruce Jones. Picked up a prestige that he and Wrightson did called Freak Show (I believe). It was gnarly. The Vertigo series Flinch features a short that he and Frank Quitely did that seriously messed me up.

[megladon8]

Yes, Caliban is on the list :)

Thanks for the other recc's. I have added them!

[megladon8]

Read the first volume of Uzumaki today. I've had the three trade volumes on my shelf for years, and have seen the film a few times (it's great), but never actually read it.

This is impressive stuff. Each story has its own feel and themes - a mother's mental deterioration after the death of her spouse; a young woman's need to feel lusted after by every man she meets; another young woman's psychotic desire for attention; a horrific retelling of Romeo and Juliet.

Similar to the EC comics of 50 years ago, they are morality tales steeped in the macabre.

Some horrific artwork accentuates a brilliant premise, that gets weirder and deeper with every passing issue.

[number8]

I finally got around to catching up with and really digging into IDW's current Ninja Turtles reboot after checking out the first arc a couple of years ago. No offense to Valiant's valiant effort that I've been a huge fan of, but I'm convinced that this is the best and most well thought out concept reboot of all time. It's comparable to Timm and Dini's work on Batman. This might be my idealized version of the Turtles.

[megladon8]

That's the Tom Waltz run, right? IDW has some great stuff going. Some of their Transformers comics are really good.

You once recommended Transformers vs GI Joe to me. Was it a specific run/writer/artist? Or is it a great title in general?

[Winston*]

Read the first volume of Uzumaki today. I've had the three trade volumes on my shelf for years, and have seen the film a few times (it's great), but never actually read it.

This is impressive stuff. Each story has its own feel and themes - a mother's mental deterioration after the death of her spouse; a young woman's need to feel lusted after by every man she meets; another young woman's psychotic desire for attention; a horrific retelling of Romeo and Juliet.

Similar to the EC comics of 50 years ago, they are morality tales steeped in the macabre.

Some horrific artwork accentuates a brilliant premise, that gets weirder and deeper with every passing issue.

Ito's art is incredible. Some of the stories in that series are so silly, but he's always able to maintain that weird creepy atmosphere.

[megladon8]

Finished it. Fantastic. For about 3 issues near the end it kind of lost me (all the whirlwind riding and fighting was a weird tonal shift and visually confusing). But as a whole it was quite a piece of work.

Some chilling imagery. The hospital section freaked me out.

[Sven]

You once recommended Transformers vs GI Joe to me. Was it a specific run/writer/artist? Or is it a great title in general?

I believe that was me, actually. There has ever only been one. Tom Scioli. Get on it now. The zeitgeist is counting on it!

[number8]

Yeah I never read that.

[megladon8]

Sorry, could have sworn it was 8.

[D_Davis]

Having a heck of a time finding any lists or publications with recommendations for other (available) horror comics to check out.

I didn't think the genre was that...niche?

Meg, have you ever read Horobi? Worth tracking down.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/4/48397/3261103-manga_hero_018.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/4/48397/3261104-granata_horobi010.jpg

[megladon8]

No I have not. Thanks for the recc, I've added it to the list!

[D_Davis]

Read the first volume of Uzumaki today. I've had the three trade volumes on my shelf for years, and have seen the film a few times (it's great), but never actually read it.

This is impressive stuff. Each story has its own feel and themes - a mother's mental deterioration after the death of her spouse; a young woman's need to feel lusted after by every man she meets; another young woman's psychotic desire for attention; a horrific retelling of Romeo and Juliet.

Similar to the EC comics of 50 years ago, they are morality tales steeped in the macabre.

Some horrific artwork accentuates a brilliant premise, that gets weirder and deeper with every passing issue.

I need to read these.

[megladon8]

Anyone read the recent big "Fire and Stone" storyline that crosses Aliens, Predator, AvP and Prometheus?

I've read great stuff about it.

[megladon8]

Have begun reading Claremont's very popular AvP story, "Deadliest of the Species".

Full of great high concept sci fi ideas.

But 3 issues in and I am very confused. What is real??? What has happened and what hasn't???? Gah!

[Grouchy]

Have begun reading Claremont's very popular AvP story, "Deadliest of the Species".

Full of great high concept sci fi ideas.

But 3 issues in and I am very confused. What is real??? What has happened and what hasn't???? Gah!
That is one of the weirdest comics I've ever read.

[megladon8]

Love the trophy wife concept.

[megladon8]

This is turning into one of the best comics I've ever read.

Sci fi fans take note - excellent stuff on display here.

Loved the Predator's trophy (skull) wall - Batman, Wolverine, Cyclops, Magneto, The Demon. And of course plenty of aliens.

[megladon8]

I just bought a LOT of horror comics...

[megladon8]

2/3 through "Deadliest of the Species".

This really couldn't work in any other visual medium. With the main character constantly changing appearance, and the genre of the book switching with almost every issue, it's a story that exemplifies the strengths of comics as a storytelling medium.

Delightfully weird stuff.

[Acapelli]

meg are you reading nameless? read nameless

jesus...

[megladon8]

I am not, no, but it's on my list!

[megladon8]

Anyone got a connection or know how to get me a copy of the Star Wars: Dark Empire trilogy trade? Paperback of hardcover, doesn't matter.

It's $170 for a used copy on Amazon, and on eBay all I can find are the individual issues (which I don't want).

Please let me know!

[megladon8]

Best Star Wars comics prior to Marvel's current runs?

Go!

[Sven]

Best Star Wars comics prior to Marvel's current runs?

Go!

Only read a few. The Protocol Offensive gets points for being illustrated by Kordey, and is of interest because it's cowritten by Anthony Daniels. Otherwise, the Kindt-penned Rebel Heist that came out just last year is a fantastic piece of fan fiction, exploring the key characters through creatively placed surrogates, and a fine example of modular storytelling.

[megladon8]

Deadliest of the Species got weirder and weirder with each issue.

By the end, I am not sure I understand the story at all.

[number8]

Star Wars Tales. I like them short.

[megladon8]

Holy shit Caliban is incredible.

Like a love song to sci fi horror.

[megladon8]

Holy shit Caliban is incredible.

Like a love song to sci fi horror.

[Sven]

A truth so nice you had to say it twice!

People don't believe me when I say that Ennis's current work is some of his career best. These are people that I don't think are reading his current work. Red Team: amazing. Rover Red Charlie: Amazing. War Stories: always amazing.

[megladon8]

Does Rover Red Charlie require having read all of Crossed?

I only read the first few issues and wasn't much of a fan, but the concept for Rover Red Charlie sounds wonderful.

[sevenarts]

Ennis' recent Fury maxiseries was definitely one of the very best things he ever wrote. I'm not reading everything he's doing now but War Stories is indeed always great, the current run included, and the 1st issue of Section 8 was fun enough.

[Sven]

Does Rover Red Charlie require having read all of Crossed?

I only read the first few issues and wasn't much of a fan, but the concept for Rover Red Charlie sounds wonderful.

It is wonderful. One of the better uses of dogs-as-people. Both DiPascale and Ennis expertly draw the characters as both anthropomorphic and animal. A confident balance.

And while there's an apocalyptic scenario where people go crazy and violent, it is not a Crossed tie-in at all.

[megladon8]

Oh strange. The description I read on Amazon (might have been a reader review) stated outright that it took place in the world of Crossed, and told the same story from the view of the dogs.

Very cool.

Hey another title to ask about (sorry, I feel my constant "hey is this good?" must get annoying) - Uber. Sounds like a neat war-meets-horror alternate history.

Speaking of dog stories, are you a fan of We3?

[Sven]

Hey another title to ask about (sorry, I feel my constant "hey is this good?" must get annoying) - Uber. Sounds like a neat war-meets-horror alternate history.

You are not annoying. I always enjoy action in the comics threads. I haven't read Uber yet. I have this bad habit where if someone I like does something lame, I will stop reading/watching/listening to their stuff. I really liked Kieron Gillen at a point, but there was a critical juncture where his stuff started getting kinda pandery. Young Avengers, WickDiv, Iron Man, Three... all of it only as good as its artwork. That said, I really like Canaan White's art. I'd love for it to be good, and am sure I'll read it eventually. Gillen has a sci-fi cop thriller with Avatar out soon called Mercury Heat...

As for We3, my thoughts on it are largely superlative, but mostly due to Quitely. The story I think is a touch specious, which is almost a pun.

[Acapelli]

wish i was able to get into any of the avatar artists as much as you guys. most of it just looks like ass to me. especially the coloring

nothing on the level of juan jose ryp. probably why i like nameless so much. burnham is killing it

[megladon8]

Have started reading the Transformers story "Megateon Origin".

A good story but I'm having trouble with the art. Very difficult to understand what is going on, particularly during action scenes. I'll read and study an action scene that involves a character's death, then be utterly confused when they're in the next scene...because it wasn't them that died, it was just too difficult to discern this.

Very frustrating.

[megladon8]

I'm kind of falling in love with the IDW Transformers stuff.

Any other fans here?

There are some very clever ideas. I'm loving the number of historical events that the Transformers had their hands in.

[megladon8]

So should I be reading Valiant comics?

[sevenarts]

So should I be reading Valiant comics?

Sven will say definitely yes, I'm sure, but I'd say they were much stronger towards the beginning of the relaunch than they are now. I've lost interest in most of the line now.

Anyone read the first issues of 8House or The Spire? Both very good examples of fantasy world building, especially the latter.

[Sven]

I do say definitely yes. Toward the beginning of their launch, they didn't have Kindt. All of his titles sing with every issue, especially Divinity and Ninjak.

The 8House/Spire comparison is interesting, because with 8House (as with Prophet, which I found overrated), it seems like Graham doesn't want to write. Like all he wants to do is create worlds populated by context-free weirdnesses with as little structure as possible. Gimme Multiple Warheads anyday. Whereas Spurrier is quite evidently head-over-heals with language and wordplay and character and story...

[megladon8]

Divinity is the title that most interests me. Don't really care about Bloodshot, Rai and the more standard superhero stuff.

[megladon8]

Spent my entire $350 bonus on comic books.

Nightworld Vol 1
Fall of Cthulhu omnibus
Robocop vs Terminator
Star Wars Tales vol 3
Uber vol 1-3
Rover Red Charlie
Transformers IDW collection vol 1
Aliens vs Predator Omnibus vol 1

A few for Jen as well...

Vampirella archives vol 1
Creepy Presents Bernie Wrightson
Junji Ito's Fragments of Horror
Ghosts and Ruins

And pre-ordered about 6 trades coming out over the next few months.

[Ezee E]

Robocop VS. Terminator. How's that one?

I should get Aliens VS Predator at the library.

[Sven]

Robocop VS. Terminator. How's that one?

It's a classic. Very good.

[megladon8]

Rover Red Charlie was wonderful. Emotionally engaging without a hint of melodrama or manipulation.

And a pitch perfect ending.

Recommended to all.

[Grouchy]

Seconded. That is a great, great, GREAT book.

[number8]

Heavy Metal Magazine just hired a new Editor in Chief.... Grant Morrison (http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/06/heavy-metal)


wat

?

[Grouchy]

That sounds like a match made in heaven to me.

[Sven]

Very tempted to subscribe now...

[megladon8]

Going to start on the Boom! Hellraiser series tomorrow.

[Dukefrukem]

Spent my entire $350 bonus on comic books.

Nightworld Vol 1
Fall of Cthulhu omnibus
Robocop vs Terminator
Star Wars Tales vol 3
Uber vol 1-3
Rover Red Charlie
Transformers IDW collection vol 1
Aliens vs Predator Omnibus vol 1

A few for Jen as well...

Vampirella archives vol 1
Creepy Presents Bernie Wrightson
Junji Ito's Fragments of Horror
Ghosts and Ruins

And pre-ordered about 6 trades coming out over the next few months.

Nice haul.

You get a quarterly bonus?

[megladon8]

Nope it was just from a sales contest my department won.

[Skitch]

Attended my first "con" of sorts in my (very) small town. Helped my buddy out at his/our table. He hooked me up with Batman & Robin #1 (aug '09) just for sitting with him. I just wanted to comment that Frank Quietly's art is fucking tight as fuck. A little overt with Robin's head to neck ratio, but everything else is damn good. I love it when the art is interesting enough to make me study each panel intently. I've also been reading a six issue arc of The Question where the color looks done with watercolor. Very cool.

[megladon8]

Yeah, Quitely is next level.

Check out All Star Superman.

[megladon8]

James Stokoe is a god.

[Sven]

Hine's Five Bloody Fingers arc of Crossed is a refreshing read. I wish that guy would hurry up with more Storm Dogs.

[megladon8]

Strange Embrace certainly put Hine in my radar. Storm Dogs is worth checking out?

[megladon8]

I've never read a war comic before.

Thought I'd try Ennis' Battlefields as a starting point.

[Sven]

Hine is actually one of my maybe ten favorite comics writers right now. (Maybe I'll make that list tonight...) Storm Dogs is terrific moody sci-fi, that had tons of world building promise and then abruptly halted after the first trade. Braithwaite has been w/Valiant, so that may explain it, but it was way cool and I'd love to see it continued.

I always recommend Hine's Spirit comics. Tiptop. Also, his Azrael/Arkham arcs from the RIP era are great Gotham books. That's if you want an easy in, otherwise Bulletproof Coffin is the way to go.

[Sven]

Also, Battlefields is great, but I'd venture beyond Ennis. His comics are often a response to war comics, so it's illuminating to go back and read the stuff from the 60s and 70s.

[megladon8]

Today I got:

Wonton Soup
Orc Stain
Resident Alien vol 1 and 2
Godzilla: Cataclysm
Battlefields vol 2
Star Wars: Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison

[megladon8]

Clive Barker's Hellraiser is very good. Some gasp-worthy twists and turns adding to the Hellraiser mythos.

Strongly recommended to fans.

[Sven]

Just read Stokoe's new issue of Godzilla in Hell. It was what you expect.

[megladon8]

So did you like it?

[D_Davis]

Also, Battlefields is great, but I'd venture beyond Ennis. His comics are often a response to war comics, so it's illuminating to go back and read the stuff from the 60s and 70s.

Remember Marvel's The 'Nam?

Any revisit that recently?

Loved the art.

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2009/11/thename-456.jpg

[number8]

You mean, the title? I don't think anyone wants to do that since it was essentially meant to be sort of real time and ran for as long as the Vietnam war itself. If there's a revisit maybe it can be in the form of applying the same concept to Iraq or something.

[D_Davis]

You mean, the title? I don't think anyone wants to do that since it was essentially meant to be sort of real time and ran for as long as the Vietnam war itself. If there's a revisit maybe it can be in the form of applying the same concept to Iraq or something.

I meant has anyone here read it recently?

Curious. I remember liking it, but I haven't read it since it was new.

[number8]

Oh. Yes. Gets a bit weird when Marvel characters started showing up, but the first dozen or so issues are fairly compelling for its grounded characters. It's obviously a huge influence on Ennis.

[megladon8]

I have a few original printing issues in my long boxes. Never read them because war comics never really appealed to me before.

[D_Davis]

Oh. Yes. Gets a bit weird when Marvel characters started showing up, but the first dozen or so issues are fairly compelling for its grounded characters. It's obviously a huge influence on Ennis.

I remember issues 1-11 being the best. I think these were all made with the original creative team.

[megladon8]

Read the first 3 issues of Uber and gave up. It's awful.

Sending the trades back to Amazon for a full refund!

[Melville]

I just read the final issues of Kot's Zero and Fraction's Hawkeye. Both great.

One groaner moment of overt self-reference aside, I was all in for the breakdown of reality and metaphysical rambling about violence and guilt in Zero's last few issues. But I have a strong predilection for stories where reality starts to come apart.

I'll have to go back and reread all of Hawkeye, but I'm pretty sure it's a new favorite. The finale was heartwarming without feeling trite, though I don't know if the bit with the brother worked as a followup to the previous issue.


Other good stuff I've read recently:

This One Summer - Beautiful artwork that captures moments of experience beautifully. One of the best stories about growing up I've read. Naturalistic but full of ecstatic moments of pure feeling or discovery.

BPRD - I read a bunch of the collections. Nice mix of world-shattering events and character building, and of pulpy sci-fi and eerie horror. Great monsters.

Grendel: Devil Child - Terrifically disturbing. The layout (both art and lettering) combine really well with the writing to get inside a broken mind.

Grendel: Devil Tales - Wagner's formal experiments are great. Both stories build very slowly, but the buildup is methodical and ultimately successful in getting to the chilling, dramatic climaxes.

[Melville]

What are people's thoughts on Sandman Mystery Theatre? Worth reading?

[number8]

Wait, Zero is over? I picked up the latest issue but haven't read it yet. Didn't realize it was the final issue. Nuts.

I like that Hawkeye didn't bother with any curveballs or surprises despite the massive delayed anticipation. They finished what they started. Very clean, very expected, but the proper thing to do.

[Sven]

What are people's thoughts on Sandman Mystery Theatre? Worth reading?

Hey Melville! I've only read a few collections, but they're great. You'll love Wagner's scripts and Davis's illustrations, as you have been. I also recently read almost all of Grendel and was astonished at how beautifully the world and mythos are built.

[megladon8]

So Sven was Godzilla in Hell any good?

[Melville]

Wait, Zero is over? I picked up the latest issue but haven't read it yet. Didn't realize it was the final issue. Nuts.
Based on the trajectory of the story in the first 14 issues, I expected it to go on a lot longer. But once it took a left turn with the introduction of William S. Burroughs, I felt like it could end any time. The ending wraps everything up, but not according to any ordinary rules of narrative structure.


Hey Melville! I've only read a few collections, but they're great. You'll love Wagner's scripts and Davis's illustrations, as you have been.
Cool. I've been enjoying Davis's work in BPRD.


I also recently read almost all of Grendel and was astonished at how beautifully the world and mythos are built.
I picked up the first two omnibuses in Dark Horse's recent sale, but so far I've only read Devil Tales and Devil Child. I'm looking forward to the short stories in the first omnibus.

[Sven]

So Sven was Godzilla in Hell any good?

Sorry I missed that original post. Yeah, it's good. I mean... imagine Stokoe drawing a Godzilla book set in Hell. Boom. There it is. It doesn't disappoint in that regard, but somehow I can't help but lament its obviousness. I liked his Half Century War a ton, I guess maybe because it wasn't just a straight up art book.

[number8]

Yes, it's pretty obviously an indulgent art project. To be fair, you can't really do anything else when you make Godzilla the protagonist instead of the human characters. So if you're interested in this premise, you pretty much have to just accept that, I think.

[megladon8]

So like, why aren't we all talking about how amazing Nightworld is?

[Melville]

Seeing The Maxx on scribd made me suddenly nostalgic for letters pages. I grew up on Kieth's comic, and its letters pages sometimes seemed more essential than the comic itself. They usually went on for about five pages, and they contained everything from deeply personal letters to zany humor to discussions that made the comics' story seem like something organic growing through interaction with its readers. There was a great sense of community and some interesting metatextual things going on in there. What were some other great letters pages? Do any current comics still have letters pages worth reading, or has internet fandom made them irrelevant?

[number8]

Plenty of Marvel and Image comics have letters pages. Only DC has done away with them entirely. Some of the best ones are the ones that barely has to do with the content. The Sex Criminals letters pages is mostly Fraction and Zdarsky giving people sexual health advice and it's amazing and hilarious. Southern Bastards' letters pages are people sending in biscuits and other southern food recipes.

[Melville]

The Sex Criminals letters pages is mostly Fraction and Zdarsky giving people sexual health advice and it's amazing and hilarious. Southern Bastards' letters pages are people sending in biscuits and other southern food recipes.
Nice. After years of reading only GNs and collections, I've gotten back into single issues lately. But mostly from Marvel, and the letters pages always look pretty short and lifeless.

[D_Davis]

Seeing The Maxx on scribd made me suddenly nostalgic for letters pages. I grew up on Kieth's comic, and its letters pages sometimes seemed more essential than the comic itself. They usually went on for about five pages, and they contained everything from deeply personal letters to zany humor to discussions that made the comics' story seem like something organic growing through interaction with its readers. There was a great sense of community and some interesting metatextual things going on in there. What were some other great letters pages? Do any current comics still have letters pages worth reading, or has internet fandom made them irrelevant?

Groo always had an amazing letters page.

I think it was Mark Evanier who handled the letters page - great sense of humor.

[megladon8]

Have started with Fall of Cthulhu and it's very intriguing.

[megladon8]

D_Davis, you absolutely must read this.

[number8]

Here's a thing that's been generating a lot of discussion in the industry today:

623532024733802498

http://www.comicsbeat.com/does-anyone-care-about-the-artists-on-comics-any-more/

The sample size is pretty small, but they've reached out to a hundred more retailers and will update the chart accordingly.

[D_Davis]

D_Davis, you absolutely must read this.

Is it a trade?

[D_Davis]

Here's a thing that's been generating a lot of discussion in the industry today:

623532024733802498

http://www.comicsbeat.com/does-anyone-care-about-the-artists-on-comics-any-more/

The sample size is pretty small, but they've reached out to a hundred more retailers and will update the chart accordingly.

Is "other" foil embossed covers?

[megladon8]

Yes I got the omnibus which is all 6 or 7 trades collected it one volume, and it was only like 15 bucks.

[ledfloyd]

I'll be honest. I don't think I've ever bought a comic solely because of the artist. If an artist I like is on a title I want to read (usually because of the writer), it's a bonus. But I'm not going to read something just because someone I like is drawing it.

[megladon8]

Marvel is releasing an omnibus of Fraction & Aja's Hawkeye.

Does anyone know if it is going to include all issues right to the recently published final issue?

If so I will definitely pick it up.

[number8]

Yeah, it's the complete run.

[megladon8]

Received all three volumes of Garth Ennis' Battlefields today.

Will read those when I finish Fall of Cthulhu.

[D_Davis]

I'll be honest. I don't think I've ever bought a comic solely because of the artist. If an artist I like is on a title I want to read (usually because of the writer), it's a bonus. But I'm not going to read something just because someone I like is drawing it.

Conversely, I've never purchased a comic book that I didn't like the art in.

For me, art is the most important thing in a comic book.

[EyesWideOpen]

I stopped reading comics so take my opinion for what it's worth but I was always a story first reader. That was what I was there for. I appreciated great art and had favorite artists but I would take a great story/bad art book any day over a bad story/great art book.

[megladon8]

Why did you stop EWO?

[EyesWideOpen]

Why did you stop EWO?

I think I mentioned it back when I sold off my collection but no big reason it was just taking up a lot of time and money and I decided to focus on other hobbies instead. I go through phases where I stop doing something like now it's movies. I've only watched one movie in the last 12 months (Inside Out) and that was because my wife wanted me to go with her. I previously was watching 200+ movies a year. For the last year I've been playing way more videogames and we've been getting in to more tv shows. That added up to the normal stuff I do all the time (work, I play basketball 10 hours a week, marriage stuff, watching NBA games) there just isn't enough time in the day.

[ledfloyd]

I stopped reading comics so take my opinion for what it's worth but I was always a story first reader. That was what I was there for. I appreciated great art and had favorite artists but I would take a great story/bad art book any day over a bad story/great art book.

Yeah, exactly.

[Sven]

Doug Mahnke, Frazer Irving, Greg Tocchini, and Igor Kordey. I've bought books solely because they drew them. Most often to little regret, though Mahnke's run with Schultz, et al, on Superman is pretty lame apart from the art. Not sure if Lee/Kirby-era Kirby books count...

[sevenarts]

Ideally you have both good writing and good art, even better is when they're not just independently good but really work together and communicate with one another, and the real ideal is a single writer/artist creator doing everything.

But if I have to choose I'd much rather a book with strong writing/ideas and so-so art than vice versa. After all, you're meant to read these things, not just look at the pictures.

[sevenarts]

Lee/Kirby is a solid exception where the books are great despite writing that can most charitably be called an acquired taste.

[number8]

The art was the only reason I kept buying Prophet long after I stopped being interested in the story. I enjoy the writing on Black Widow and Silver Surfer, but if they had anyone other than Noto and Allred drawing them, I probably would not still be reading them.

[megladon8]

Kirby's writing is great and I loved it from day one, so I have to say I disagree with that one.