The Comic Book Discussion Thread

[Sven]

Joe Kubert died. Very few holdouts from his era. Impressive, innovative run. RIP

[number8]

Never liked his sons' art as much as him, but his school has produced plenty of great artists. A legend.

Just look at this fucking composition:

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources. com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/kubertcover15.jpg

[number8]

I don't know why it never occurred to me until this weekend this one benefit of having your computer monitor on a swivel wall mount.

https://instagr.am/p/OPIZVALYVT/media/?size=l

[number8]

This is fucking disgusting. THIS is their official condolences for the man?

http://i.imgur.com/WgAiY.jpg

[number8]

And on their Facebook page:

http://pfwr.info/u/1344884711.png

Fucking come on.

[DavidSeven]

Read The Killing Joke and The Dark Knight Returns for the first time.

The Killing Joke was disappointing. I enjoyed the artwork and found the concept interesting, but it really doesn't seem to go anywhere at all. I hate to say it, because I was floored by Watchmen, but I think this was just straight-up poorly written. The Joker's back story was dumb and does nothing but demystify and humanize the character, which totally counteracts what makes him so interesting as an iconic villain. The dialogue felt like it was straight from a kids' comic despite the mature subject matter; it was cheesy. Not a worthless piece, but this one falls far short of what Moore's reputation and my prior experience with Watchmen had me expecting.

I'm so glad I saved The Dark Knight Returns for last. It completely washed out the lingering bad taste of The Killing Joke. What an incredible book! Well-deserving of its stature. There's so much to absorb on each page of this thing. I have to admit that the artwork turned me off at first, but this was so well-written from the jump that I was completely sucked into this world within a couple pages. I eventually ended up loving the artwork and found it a perfect compliment to the mood Miller crafts through storytelling. An engrossing story from beginning to end, very interesting uses of pre-existing characters, the right amount of bat-shit craziness (love the use of horses in the "final act"), social commentary that feels rich, but not forced, and even a little heart (Gordon: "One more thing.") It just feels like such a unique and invigorating piece. I can only imagine what it must have been like to read something like this in the 80s pre-Burton, pre-Batman: TAS and pre-Nolan. Brilliant stuff. I'm already excited to read it again.

[Sven]

Forgot about the ending to Nextwave. Reread that this morning w/coffee and shit hit me on a whole new level.

[number8]

The Killing Joke was disappointing. I enjoyed the artwork and found the concept interesting, but it really doesn't seem to go anywhere at all. I hate to say it, because I was floored by Watchmen, but I think this was just straight-up poorly written. The Joker's back story was dumb and does nothing but demystify and humanize the character, which totally counteracts what makes him so interesting as an iconic villain. The dialogue felt like it was straight from a kids' comic despite the mature subject matter; it was cheesy. Not a worthless piece, but this one falls far short of what Moore's reputation and my prior experience with Watchmen had me expecting.

Alan Moore agrees with you.


I can only imagine what it must have been like to read something like this in the 80s pre-Burton, pre-Batman: TAS and pre-Nolan. Brilliant stuff. I'm already excited to read it again.

I wish I could have experienced it too. Another thing to remember is that it was even pre-Year One. When DKR came out, it was really the first taste of the modern Batman as we know him today. It's also pre-Watchmen. By all accounts, it was a boot in the spine of the system.

[Grouchy]

I'd never read such a negative reaction to The Killing Joke. You can compare it unfavorably to other Moore comics, but come on. "LINGERING BAD TASTE"?

[number8]

mSXXIuKZ6qA

[DavidSeven]

I'd never read such a negative reaction to The Killing Joke. You can compare it unfavorably to other Moore comics, but come on. "LINGERING BAD TASTE"?

To be fair, I haven't read many comics as an adult. In the last few years, I've only read this, DKR and Watchmen. I guess that's tough company to be in, and it's frequent mention after Ledger's performance in TDK probably doesn't help its cause either. I'm sure if this was just a random $3 comic book that I happened to read, it would have gone down easier.

[EyesWideOpen]

I'm pretty sure I mentioned before I don't really care for The Killing Joke either especially the ending.

[Grouchy]

The most widespread cricisms I've heard or read about The Killing Joke are basically two:

- Its irrelevance to people who aren't Batman fans, the one that Alan Moore himself raised in the interview posted above. Somewhat valid, but when Moore says that the characters "don't relate to human beings" he's pissing off the can in my opinion. He made a story about madness and the unfairness of the world, and those are universal themes to me. It's not a comic that exists purely for continuity reasons.

- The "Women in Refrigerators" syndrome. This is a feminist critique that relates to the level of gruesomeness of Joker's assault on Barbara Gordon. This is rubbish to me. It makes sense when deaths are used merely as plot devices (like Green Lantern's girlfriend's murder), but I think the violence is earned by the writing. The attempt is to shatter Gordon's morality and worldview by doing the worst possible things to his daughter, and Joker fails. That's the point of the comic. Besides, post-Killling Joke Barbara was an interesting and powerful character, something that can't be said about Batgirl as she was conceived in the 1960s.

I'd like to see negative criticism of Killing Joke that actually centers on the story itself, and not in cultural issues that are important but peripheral to it.

[Sven]

Nice. In November, Image is publishing the first of a sci-fi six-parter by David Hine and Doug Braithwaite. Yes!

[Ezee E]

I'm late to the game, but really like Walking Dead. Moreso then the show. Feels like anything could happen.

[Sven]

Oooo, another nice solicit: 47 Ronin, illustrated by Stan Sakai.

[Sven]

Oh, and how's 'bout Richard Corben adapting The Conqueror Worm? Very exciting stuff.

[Sven]

Slowly picking away at random Flinch stories. The one by Bruce Jones and Frank Quitely is so messed up.

[number8]

Wait until you get to the Bruce Timm one in #11.

[Sven]

Wait until you get to the Bruce Timm one in #11.

Actually, I remember reading that one on this board years ago. I believe you posted it. Also terribly, terribly messed up.

[number8]

Ha, so I did. (http://www.match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=1132)

[number8]

Last issue of Scalped comes out this Wednesday.

[Sven]

Picture David Hine posted on Twitter:

https://p.twimg.com/A0we50BCcAAuFeQ.jpg

from left: Rian Hughes, Grant Morrison, Peter Milligan, Shaky Kane

[Sven]

I think I'm a fan of Whilce Portacio these days. His old stuff isn't really my thing, but his newer work is quite good.

[Sven]

Invisibles Omnibus out today. Forgot that I had it ordered from my comic shop, so now I'm obligated to buy it. Oh shucks.

[dreamdead]

The U of Tulsa library has a nice graphic novel collection. I'm taking home to read:

Chester Brown's The Playboy
Seth's It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken
Kate Beaton's Hark! A Vagrant
David Mazzucchelli's Asterios Polyp

Brown and Mazzucchelli are the two I'm most looking forward to...

[Sven]

Kate Beaton's Hark! A Vagrant

Have you ever encountered Ms. Beaton before? If not, I warn you: your mind is about to be blown. Easily one of the best cartoonists working today.

http://harkavagrant.com/

[number8]

Invisibles Omnibus out today. Forgot that I had it ordered from my comic shop, so now I'm obligated to buy it. Oh shucks.

How heavy is that motherfucker? I cannot imagine having 60 issues in one binding.

[Sven]

How heavy is that motherfucker? I cannot imagine having 60 issues in one binding.

There are plenty of pictures of it online, but I will post my own here this afternoon, following its acquisition.

[number8]

I know, but I can't judge weight by online pictures.

[Sven]

A picture I took of it to show the "invisible" embossed figures on the dust jacket. That's a sideways iphone next to it, for size comparison. Excellent paper quality. It's exceptionally heavy. 9.5 lbs-ish.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/iosos/matchcut/omnibus.jpg

[number8]

Goddamn.

[Sven]

I sold a couple of my trades in a brief OOP window where they sold for around forty. Then, plus my discount and selling the other trades, this one practically came my way on its own.

Absolute Final Crisis, on the other hand, is gonna be a bite.

[Sven]

Lame. Gischler is picking up The Shadow on issue 7. Was hoping for a longer Ennis run. I've been digging it.

[dreamdead]

Have you ever encountered Ms. Beaton before? If not, I warn you: your mind is about to be blown. Easily one of the best cartoonists working today.

http://harkavagrant.com/

I'd read her entry in Bechdel's edition of the Best Comics of 2011, which included the pisstake on The Great Gatsby, and made me laugh a lot. I rather love her treatment of the Bronte sisters as well, deconstructing their use, save for Anne, of alcoholism as a romantic pose. About halfway through the volume right now.

Chester Brown's The Playboy is curious in how much it lays his sexual predilections bare, but it's quite an unaffecting book for me--possibly because it's so centered on his past that we don't see the ramifications of those interests today except in miniature. I don't find much of interest or value in this one, though I'd still like to read Paying for It at some point.

[number8]

Wow, what the hell? Brubaker is off Winter Soldier after issue 14. So he's officially gonna be leaving Marvel at the end of the year.

[Sven]

Wow, what the hell? Brubaker is off Winter Soldier after issue 14. So he's officially gonna be leaving Marvel at the end of the year.

End of an era. At least Latour is a good writer. Better than Brubs, IMO.

[Melville]

Chester Brown's The Playboy is curious in how much it lays his sexual predilections bare, but it's quite an unaffecting book for me--possibly because it's so centered on his past that we don't see the ramifications of those interests today except in miniature. I don't find much of interest or value in this one, though I'd still like to read Paying for It at some point.
Brown's comics are generally very detached (as is the the man himself, according to his autobiographical books and what others say of him—Seth calls him a robot), and increasingly so with every book. Paying for It is incredibly minimalist in both linework and emotion. It's interesting; there's a lot of tension between the minimalism and what he's talking about. It's also an interesting book in how it presents itself as a treatise with a specific, thought-provoking if somewhat flimsy argument against romantic love and in favor of prostitution.

I really like all his books, but Louis Riel is head and shoulders above the others in my esteem, and it's high on my list of favorite comics. Not sure if it would mesh with your interests as much as Paying for It, though.

[EyesWideOpen]

Great line from Saga #6: "When a man carries an instrument of violence, he'll always find the justification to use it."

[number8]

Here's Brubaker's reason for leaving Winter Soldier.


"Well, originally, the book was going to end around #14 or #15, because sales weren't as good as we'd hoped they'd be," the writer explained. "I'd been planning for that end for about three or four months. Then I guess sales stabilized, and the Cap movie [sequel] was announced, and everyone really likes the book and likes the character, so they want to keep it going. But in the meantime, I'd taken on outside comic work that was making my schedule harder and harder to keep up with, and so when Tom [Brevoort] told me they were keeping it going instead, I just felt like I needed to let it go. I struggled with it, and Tom and I discussed several possibilities of me staying, some of which I can't really discuss openly, because they concern internal workings of the company, but in no way was this an easy decision, and I feel bad if my readers think I'm bailing, because that wasn't the case."

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=40642

[dreamdead]

The U of Tulsa library has a nice graphic novel collection. I'm taking home to read:

David Mazzuchelli's Asterios Polyp


Damn it. Mazzuchelli had just orchestrated a rather tender and touching coda to this and then he had to add the comet. What a bummer, because it plays like the most abject postmodern irony, and as though he doesn't feel his story had earned the pathos it had truly explored. This was gearing up to be a favorite, but this final moment derails it.

The art here is phenomenal, especially in the wordless sequence where Asterios imagines rescuing Hana like a Greek tragedy... and that final car drive is wonderful. Just a blunder of a finale.



I really like all his books, but Louis Riel is head and shoulders above the others in my esteem, and it's high on my list of favorite comics. Not sure if it would mesh with your interests as much as Paying for It, though.

Thanks for the thoughts. Not sure how much I'll be able to follow Canadian history, but it does seem interesting, and I'd like to give Brown another chance or two. That said, I'm fairly limited to what Tulsa's library has, and The Playboy was the only Brown that I could find.

[D_Davis]

I think I'm a fan of Whilce Portacio these days. His old stuff isn't really my thing, but his newer work is quite good.

He was one of my favorites way back in the day.

[D_Davis]

That said, I'm fairly limited to what Tulsa's library has, and The Playboy was the only Brown that I could find.

A masterpiece. My favorite example of the medium.

[Russ]

Daniel, have you ever read Brown's adaptations of The Gospel of Matthew and The Gospel of Mark? They've never been collected, but were originally serialized in Yummy Fur and, later, Underwater. At that point, he decided to discontinue them, which was a shame. Always quality stuff.


http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff324/astrojester/Mark-04.jpg

[sevenarts]

Daniel, have you ever read Brown's adaptations of The Gospel of Matthew and The Gospel of Mark? They've never been collected, but were originally serialized in Yummy Fur and, later, Underwater. At that point, he decided to discontinue them, which was a shame. Always quality stuff.

I love those, it's a real shame he never finished and collected them. Such a unique perspective on very familiar material, rendering it strange and provocative while superficially maintaining a tone of distance and faithfulness to the source material.

[Sven]

MorrisonCon program announced. Shit's gonna be cray-cray.

http://morrisoncon.com/program.html

Sorry about "cray-cray".

[Grouchy]

MorrisonCon program announced. Shit's gonna be cray-cray.

http://morrisoncon.com/program.html

Sorry about "cray-cray".
I read that page. It sounds awesome and crazily egotistical at the same time.

[number8]

Holy shit that Hickman and Aaron panel sounds like the greatest thing ever.

[dreamdead]

J.H. WILLIAMS III'S SUBLIMINAL WORLD
Sometimes a cigar isn't just a cigar. J.H. Williams III shares how he imbues his art with deeper subliminal meaning and taps directly into our primal brain's understanding of instinctual symbols. This visual dissection of the emblematic designs of Williams' work will open the door to a larger Jungian world where your subconscious mind experiences images. Learn how myth and symbol are the very DNA of Williams' gorgeous art and design.

Featuring: J.H. Williams III

JEALOUS. I've published on Promethea and Batwoman, and there's few things I want to see more than Williams describing his craft and thought process.

Is Williams's Seven Soldiers run collected?

[Sven]

JEALOUS. I've published on Promethea and Batwoman, and there's few things I want to see more than Williams describing his craft and thought process.

Is Williams's Seven Soldiers run collected?

Williams only illustrated the bookending issues. The whole run is collected in two big volumes or four smaller collections.

[D_Davis]

Daniel, have you ever read Brown's adaptations of The Gospel of Matthew and The Gospel of Mark? They've never been collected, but were originally serialized in Yummy Fur and, later, Underwater. At that point, he decided to discontinue them, which was a shame. Always quality stuff.


http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff324/astrojester/Mark-04.jpg

Only a couple in Underwater. Always hoping for a collection.

[Grouchy]

Does anyone know where can I download comic-book scripts? I'm writing a comic-book with a friend and, even though I've already started the thing, I'm curious to check out the format since this is something I've never done before.

My main concern is that, though my friend is a killer in the drawing board, he admits that he doesn't have the skills to structure a story in panels. So I'd like to read some of Alan Moore's scripts or any script by someone who describes everything for the artist.

[Grouchy]

Never mind, Google is my friend.

[number8]

Your friend might kill you if you write your script like Alan Moore.

[Grouchy]

Heh. I just never read a comic-book script before. I know about the Lee/Kirby way of doing comics, and that sounds appealing, but my friend insists he's unable to structure the story in panels and he'd prefer it if I did that job.

I don't have any of Moore's talent/knowledge and, besides, this ain't no League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. I'm not gonna fill every page with obscure references.

[number8]

Yeah, but check out his script for Watchmen. He takes like an entire page's worth of paragraph to describe one panel. He would go into the furniture, the number of trash, the exact distance in measurement of the "camera" to the characters, even the freakin smell of the room.

[number8]

Neat.


This November, Dynamite Entertainment brings pulp heroes Green Hornet, Kato, The Shadow, Miss Fury, Black Bat, Zorro, The Spider and more together for "Masks" written by Chris Roberson with art by Alex Ross, a series focusing on the heroic icons joining forces for the first time to combat the Party of Justice, a powerful organization in 1938 New York with the goal of enacting a fascist police state.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1346172769.jpg

[Grouchy]

Yeah, but check out his script for Watchmen. He takes like an entire page's worth of paragraph to describe one panel. He would go into the furniture, the number of trash, the exact distance in measurement of the "camera" to the characters, even the freakin smell of the room.
Makes you wonder why he never drew the damn things himself. He isn't without talent judging from these:

http://www.mustardweb.org/dodgemlogic/alanmoorecomicpage.png

http://www.sparehed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/dodge4.jpg

http://www.johncoulthart.com/feuilleton/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/am.jpg

[Sven]

Hey wow, they've already solicited a new entry in the LoEG series. Nemo: Heart of Ice. 50 page self-contained story following Janni. Due in February. Gnarly.

[number8]

Yeah, I posted that pages back when Moore first announced it. It's her visiting the Mountains of Madness. Should be awesome.

[Sven]

All the way back in February. No wonder it slipped my mind.

Here's the cover:

http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2012/09/NEMO_HOI_FC_Promo.jpg?848685

[Sven]

Favorite single issues of all time, guys?

Right now, I can't think of a more affecting one than Shade the Changing Man #7. What a smash to the skull that one was.

Edited for factual alignment.

[sevenarts]

Shade is an excellent choice. One of my favorite series of all time, and that whole long first arc is jaw-dropping.

If I'd ever read Love and Rockets in single issues I'm sure an issue of that would get the title, but I've only read the collections so that's hard to parse out.

So I'll go with Ganges #2, an absolutely amazing comic that's experimental, funny, thought-provoking, and surprisingly moving.

[dreamdead]

Favorite single issues of all time, guys?


Watchmen #6 (likely my most-read single issue, though I grant that #4 is technically more groundbreaking)
Promethea #32
Animal Man #26 (Morrison's send-off)
Marvels #4
Unwritten #17
From Hell #4
Bone #2

[ledfloyd]

Acme Novelty Library #18

[number8]

Hitman #34.

[sevenarts]

Acme Novelty Library #18

I didn't think of those since they're pretty long for "single issues," but if that counts, I'd go with #19. #18 is great too, though.

[ledfloyd]

I didn't think of those since they're pretty long for "single issues," but if that counts, I'd go with #19. #18 is great too, though.
oops. i actually meant #19.

[Grouchy]

Swamp Thing, "The Anatomy Lesson".

[number8]

I prefer My Blue Heaven.

[Grouchy]

I prefer My Blue Heaven.
Heheh, I was seriously about to post that one, then decided I love too many issues from that run, made my vote for the one that spawned it all.

Alternatively, one of my favorite issues ever is the Giffen/DeMatteis JLI moving to the UN.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Jli_issue8_cover.jpg

[Melville]

Most of my favorite comics I've only read in collected form. But back when they first came out, Bone #16 and Cerebus #197 are the two single issues that first really wowed me with what comics can do.

EDIT: also Hellboy: Wake the Devil #2.

Acme Novelty Library 19 is indeed awesome. One of the best sci-fi stories I've read or seen in any medium.

[Sven]

So do we think Loki proper is going to return? I have fallen quite in love with kid Loki. A return to that status quo I imagine will be a hard sell. I can't see it not feeling like a regression.

in similar news, Everything Burns has been tip-top so far.

[Acapelli]

So do we think Loki proper is going to return? I have fallen quite in love with kid Loki. A return to that status quo I imagine will be a hard sell. I can't see it not feeling like a regression.

in similar news, Everything Burns has been tip-top so far.
doesn't look like it

http://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/MarvelNOW_PointOne_Teaser5.jpg

[Russ]

Favorite single issues of all time, guys?

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff324/astrojester/frankintheriver.jpg

Tantalizing Stories Presents Frank in The River

[D_Davis]

Favorite single issues of all time, guys?

Right now, I can't think of a more affecting one than Shade the Changing Man #7. What a smash to the skull that one was.

Edited for factual alignment.

http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1233446490l/4251941.jpg

Reversed white/black of the standard cover, stands out on the shelf. Almost no dialog. The best comic book art I've ever seen. The best comic book coloring I've ever seen. The best drawings of a city and destruction I've ever seen. I'd love to have almost every single page of this blown to poster sized and framed. It's a masterpiece.

[Russ]

No dialog. The best comic book art I've ever seen. The best comic book coloring I've ever seen. I'd love to have almost every single page of this blown to poster sized and framed. It's a masterpiece.

D, I could have used most of your blurb to describe my choice.

[EyesWideOpen]

It took almost a year and a half but I have finally gotten rid of my entire 500+ graphic novel collection. I've been taking trips over the last two weeks to the local used book/movie store to trade in the left over books that I didn't manage to sell online. Now on to my single issues which will be the hard part.

[Grouchy]

It took almost a year and a half but I have finally gotten rid of my entire 500+ graphic novel collection. I've been taking trips over the last two weeks to the local used book/movie store to trade in the left over books that I didn't manage to sell online. Now on to my single issues which will be the hard part.
Er... Congratulations?

I find that kind of sad.

[Sven]

Whereas I purchased a trade today! Hickman's The Manhattan Projects. Been dying to read it. In fact, gonna go read some right now.

[EyesWideOpen]

Er... Congratulations?

I find that kind of sad.

Basically comics are my third hobby. My favorite thing is movies, followed by video games and then comics. My problem was that I was spending hundreds of dollars a month on collecting things in all three of these categories the majority of which I was never going to have time to read/play/watch. I had a 500+ backlog of just graphic novels/trades and I kept getting more not because I was dying to read them but that because I felt I had to have them. If that makes any sense. I was spending around $50-60 on single issue comics a month and another couple hundred on trades. So about two years ago I gave up comics cold turkey and I noticed I didn't miss them in the slightest. It was a good break. Just recently I started a very small pull list of around 10 books that I really love (no DC/Marvel) and I have no problem dropping a book if I lose interest.

[megladon8]

Two issues in and I think I may be ready to declare "Hawkeye" my favorite title right now.

The line work and page layouts are phenomenal.

[Grouchy]

Of course, if you weren't reading at the same pace you were buying, that makes perfect sense.

[number8]

DC is adding another Before Watchmen book: Moloch the Mystic.

Fuck me.

[Sven]

DC is adding another Before Watchmen book: Moloch the Mystic.

Fuck me.

For reals. JMS is a hacky whore. Too bad Risso's illustrating, because now I'm obliged to at least look at it. Actually, all of the BW illustration talents have delivered impressively, now that I think about it.

[Sven]

Highly recommend checking out Brendan McCarthy's website, which has had much activity over the last few months, including an expanded section with all kinds of cool concept art for movies and stuff. Apparently the opening credits of Burton's Sweeney Todd were designed by him!

http://www.brendanmccarthy.co.uk/

[Sven]

I might've read a Rios/Bellaire Captain Marvel from the beginning. Bellaire is rapidly surpassing all my favorite colorists.

[Sven]

Also, the guy who illustrated the last issue of Untold Tales from PunisherMAX, Connor Willumsen, who is also illustrating the upcoming WolverineMAX (which thus will be very interesting), is the same guy that illustrated the Criterion Collection edition of Kubrick's The Killing, one of my all time favorite covers. I love finding out stuff like that.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IedpDdtqGSQ/TknzYoSiv_I/AAAAAAAAB8Q/nXAyTrbuBao/s1600/The+Killing+Criterion+Art.jpg

[number8]

Criterion has utilized several comic artists before and they're always wonderful. One of the reasons why I love them. They got Sean Phillips to do the cover for one of my favorite noir films. Shows that they know their comics.

[megladon8]

I love the cover for Make Way For Tomorrow.

[EyesWideOpen]

I love the cover for Make Way For Tomorrow.

Great movie also. When I went up with it to the counter to buy it the guy says "Is that a sequel to that movie Persepolis?".

[sevenarts]

Criterion has utilized several comic artists before and they're always wonderful. One of the reasons why I love them. They got Sean Phillips to do the cover for one of my favorite noir films. Shows that they know their comics.

You may know this, but the Criterion comic artist covers are usually coordinated by designer Eric Skillman, who definitely knows his comics. He's got a great but recently inactive design process blog (http://ericskillman.blogspot.com/) that has broken down the process behind designing many of these covers, including some of the comic artist ones.

[number8]

Yeah, quite a shame that the updates are so sporadic.

Goddamn, I almost bought some of those Blurays last year just for the covers, even when I'm not crazy about the movies.

[Acapelli]

Also, the guy who illustrated the last issue of Untold Tales from PunisherMAX, Connor Willumsen, who is also illustrating the upcoming WolverineMAX (which thus will be very interesting), is the same guy that illustrated the Criterion Collection edition of Kubrick's The Killing, one of my all time favorite covers. I love finding out stuff like that.
connor willumsen is one of my favorite artists. i've been looking forward to him doing some serialized stuff (fun fact: my friend who was a former editor at marvel was the one who "discovered" him and put his name out there)


You may know this, but the Criterion comic artist covers are usually coordinated by designer Eric Skillman, who definitely knows his comics. He's got a great but recently inactive design process blog (http://ericskillman.blogspot.com/) that has broken down the process behind designing many of these covers, including some of the comic artist ones.
he writes some great crime comics too (full circle: connor willumsen illustrated one of the stories in an issue of his egg anthology comics)

liar's kiss was great too

[Sven]

connor willumsen is one of my favorite artists.

Rad. I've exhausted his online material, and can't wait to see what he does next.

On an entirely different note, I read the first twelve issues of Brubaker's Cap run this morning. While it is not disputable that Brub's writing is infinitely readable, I find that he doesn't really care about extending emotion or consequence past his stories' diegeses. It's all plot plot plot, with just enough character development to move things forward. There's nothing for me to think about. Nothing to chew on.

The one issue detailing Jack Monroe's story, though, has been the notable exception. Best issue so far.

Also, Frank D'Armata's colors just make things worse.

[number8]

WOW. You'd think I of all people would realize it sooner, but I just realized today while rereading Gotham Central that the reporter character Simon Lippman is supposed to be David Simon.

[ledfloyd]

whoa, that makes pefect sense. and like you, it had never dawned on me.

[number8]

It should have been really flippin obvious too.

http://www.comicsrecommended.com/images/dc/gothamcentral_034_montoya.jpg

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/4fcfbf3369bedda73500002a/david-simon.png

[Sven]

I haven't read it yet, but I implore everyone to at least flip through the new Simonson book, The Judas Coin. It looks incredible.

[Sven]

Hey everyone. I just posted a piece on Uncanny X-Force. Check it out if you're interested:

http://earth616.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/uncanny-x-force-in-19-5-panels/

[Ezee E]

Wonderful Sven. I wish I was able to partake in the whole series.

[Sven]

Anyone reading Ultimate Comics Ultimates? Apparently Ultimate Cap just got elected president. Seems weird. I've read several moments over the years where Cap justifies his decision not to enter politics, but I don't know from the Ultimates.

[number8]

Yeah, another Marvel storyline spoiled and hyped up in mainstream media. DC wishes they could grab headlines like Marvel, huh?

And no, I gave up on the Ultimate universe a looong time ago, except for Spidey, just because I like the idea of Miles Morales.

[number8]

Also, don't worry, it's still going to be 95% politics-free, since he's going to be the President of a post-apocalyptic America. He'll be dealing more with war and restoration issues than real-life economic and social issues. Kind of a copout, really.

[Sven]

Got caught up with Fraction's The Defenders this morning. It's... not very good. The illustration talent is tip-top (my favorite so far being Breitweiser's popping underwater issue), but the narrative lurches. Its derivations are broad, with too much assumed action. And at times it feels like nothing but a bunch of fight scenes. The page captions assist in its freewheelin' tone, but ultimately fail in their transparent grasps at cleverness.

There's some fun there, sure. But ho hum.

[Sven]

So Nathan Edmonson's supposed to be all good and stuff, but this issue of PunisherMAX he wrote is so utterly generic that I would've been disappointed even without expecting anything.

[number8]

This is excellent. (http://www.dylanmeconis.com/how-not-to-write-comics-criticism/)

[dreamdead]

I read the first two issues of the new Harbinger Valiant series. It was good, though the artwork is a little bit average. Are people tracking along with these titles? I enjoyed the reboot, which reminds me just enough of the old series to appreciate things, but memory has faded enough that things still seem fairly new. We'll see if I continue to catch up with this title...

[number8]

It's Joshua Dysart, so I believe that it's good. I'll be checking it out someday.

[Russ]

Just stumbled across one of my all-time fave comic stories, Going to Pieces by Francois Schuiten, and wanted to share:


http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff324/astrojester/gtp1_zps58a5ce30.jpg

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff324/astrojester/gtp2_zpse7b42ddd.jpg

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff324/astrojester/gtp3_zps90e9c2a6.jpg

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff324/astrojester/gtp4_zps611fd22f.jpg

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff324/astrojester/gtp5_zps66f4d6db.jpg

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff324/astrojester/gtp6_zps95beee6e.jpg

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff324/astrojester/gtp7_zpsb9153b84.jpg

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff324/astrojester/gtp8_zps160f664d.jpg

[Sven]

Gnarly.

[number8]

Yet another creator spills the bean on the terrible condition at Marvel and DC. This time it's Greg Rucka, which is surprising since he's still technically working for them for the time being. Apparently he's really pissed about Punisher being put on Thunderbolts without asking him.


I’ve reached the end of my Work For Hire rope. I’m enjoying The Punisher, but that’s not mine, it’s Marvel’s, and l knew that going in. I have spent a lot of my comics career in service of other masters, – and I’ve had enough of that for now. I’m sick to death of the way the Big Two treat people.

I gave seven very good years to DC and they took gross advantage of me. That’s partially my fault, but not entirely. At this point, I see no reason why I should have to put up with that, I can sink or swim on my own.

You are seeing a grotesque Hollywoodisation of the two main companies. There was at least a period where I felt that the way they wanted to make money was by telling the best story they could; now the quality of the work matters less than that the book comes out. There is far less a desire to see good work be done.

Dan DiDio has gone on record, and this is the same man that said Gotham Central would never be cancelled as long as he was there, telling people what a great book Gotham Central was, but it never made any money.

Well, take a look at your trade sales! That book has made nothing but money as a trade. What I’m now being told is, ”lt was never worth anything to us anyway.”So, you know what? They can stop selling the Batwoman: Elegy trade and stop selling the Wonder Woman trades and everything else I’ve done, because clearly I’ve not done anything of service and those guys aren’t making any money off me.

Right now, where the market is, I have no patience for it.

My run on Punisher ends on #16, and we are then doing a five-issue mini called War Zone and then I’m done. That’s it! The Powers-That-Be at Marvel, without talking to me, decreed that he’s going to join a team on another book.

That’s their choice, they own him, but I don’t have to be happy about it. I am glad I had the opportunity to work on the character and I’m proud of the work I’ve done.

Despite what the publishers say, their interest in the talent is minimal now, the interest is only in promoting the financial worth of their properties. That was not the case as of two or three years ago, when there was an ‘Exclusives war’, but that’s all gone by the wayside now. Ultimately, they are saying, “We don’t need you,’ because they can get a million more just like you.

For every person who passes on the opportunity to write Spider-Man or Superman, I guarantee there are 5000 hungry writers who would give their eye-teeth to do it. But just because they want to do it, it doesn’t mean they are capable of doing it. It comes down entirely to Warner Bros. realising what they owned but had not exploited. At the end of the Harry Potter franchise, they went “Oh, crap, we need something else fast’, looked over at Marvel’s very very successful film program.

DC are playing catch up with Marvel, because of things like The Avengers breaking six hundred million domestic. That’s a lot of money, I don’t begrudge Warner Bros wanting to make bank it would be like blaming a shark for eating, but l do think that the pursuit of that financial windfall bears a detrimental effect on the creative and artistic side.

[sevenarts]

Man if I were Marvel I'd want this Rucka Punisher series to continue basically forever. It's probably the #1 best series they have going right now, and even when some months it's topped by Uncanny X-Force or FF, it's never been anything less than great.

It really seems like it's tough for creators at the Big Two to sustain long, worthwhile runs on titles, especially with these smaller books that are very vulnerable to editorial interference - Hickman did it on FF, and Bendis on Avengers (not that I've been reading the latter), but it's a shame that Rucka wasn't allowed the same leeway to tell his story and develop this character over time. I would've loved to see this series continue as an epic over the course of years instead of getting truncated like this.

[Sven]

I just read Moore's Twilight of the Gods pitch. Sounds like it would've been terrific.

[Sven]

Oooo, lovely conclusion to Rucka's Punisher. Interested to see how he pits him against the Avengers. Also interested cuz Di Giandomenico is on it and he has rapidly escalated to the higher echelons of my esteem since reading Spider-Man Noir some months back. Also been killing it on Everything Burns, which has been a joy with precedent only found in prior JIM arcs.

[Sven]

I won't be on for the rest of the weekend, likely, as I will be headed tomorrow morning to... *cue synth power chords* MorrisonCon!!

Have no idea what to expect, but I'm giving myself carte blanche, so I'm sure it's gonna be a fascinating weekend.

[Sven]

This is Chris Burnham drawing this picture for me:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8179/8041430148_c5ec151898.jpg

Thanks again, Chris!

[dreamdead]

Anyone have thoughts on Happy! yet? I won't be able to get a copy till Thursday at the earliest, and I'm interested in responses...

[Sven]

It's kinda obvious, but ecstatic in the way it's rendered (and purporting a message that always bears repeating). Very dramatic. There's one superlative page where a character has a heart attack and he's cursing everything. And I think it's Robertson's finest work so far. Atmosphere is palpable.

[ledfloyd]

i'm still waiting on a morrisoncon play-by-play

[EyesWideOpen]

If any of ya'll aren't reading Rachel Rising or Mind MGMT you really should be.

[sevenarts]

If any of ya'll aren't reading Rachel Rising or Mind MGMT you really should be.

absolutely. two of my favorites right now. really great, clever, visually stunning genre work in both of those.

[number8]

Anyone have thoughts on Happy! yet? I won't be able to get a copy till Thursday at the earliest, and I'm interested in responses...


It's kinda obvious, but ecstatic in the way it's rendered (and purporting a message that always bears repeating). Very dramatic. There's one superlative page where a character has a heart attack and he's cursing everything. And I think it's Robertson's finest work so far. Atmosphere is palpable.

I'm staying hopeful, but the first issue read that Garth Ennis on an off day.

[number8]

Awesome.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb9fp8ONge1qmskf5o1_128 0.jpg

[number8]

I've been on a huge Hellblazer kick lately. I'm pretty much nearly done reading all the trades that are available. My LCS owner has been collecting the series since #1 in the 80s and he recently put the entire run on sale at his shop to make extra money (a bit heartbreaking really), so I might grab the uncollected issues, like Paul Jenkins' run.

[Sven]

That illustration should include Peter Milligan.

And speaking of, 8, I know we talked about it a year ago or so, but how have you been finding his Hellblazer run? And what other runs on that book would you emphatically recommend?

[number8]

I've only read very little of Milligan's run on it. From what I hear, it's been well received.

Delano and Ennis' initial runs are absolutely essential reading. Delano was Hellblazer at its most political, using magic and demons as contemporary satire, while Ennis simply had the best handling of the character's personality. Until his PUNISHER MAX run, it's the most blatant example of how much Ennis loves sentimental poetry, both in the narration style and the references.

I didn't care for Warren Ellis and Brian Azzarello's runs at all.

[Sven]

After a few aborted attempts at scribing a rundown of my weekend at MorrisonCon, I'm giving up on it entirely. It was a truly singular experience, happening at a crucial juncture in my life where things are reaching a head and exploding into a multitude of directions, and I just can't find a suitable way to recount it. I'm still vibrating from it all.

Meantime, I'll reiterate my admiration for FuryMAX, the last issue of which I read last night in a fit of insomnia. I'm happy that they're slowing the book so that Parlov can illustrate all of it.

[sevenarts]

I've been on a huge Hellblazer kick lately. I'm pretty much nearly done reading all the trades that are available. My LCS owner has been collecting the series since #1 in the 80s and he recently put the entire run on sale at his shop to make extra money (a bit heartbreaking really), so I might grab the uncollected issues, like Paul Jenkins' run.

I read all of Hellblazer some time back, it was a pretty great experience even if not every run is a classic. I agree with the common wisdom that Delano and Ennis were the high points of the series, but there's been good stuff since then. Of the longer runs, Milligan's current run has to be somewhere towards the top, not least because he's taking a fairly different perspective on the character than anyone else has. Married Constantine is counterintuitive but has actually worked really well so far.

I also like the Warren Ellis run, and Mike Carey was fairly solid. Jenkins started out promisingly but his stuff got AWFUL after a while; there's a reason his run is often considered the nadir, and has never been collected. The only worse period was Denise Mira's incoherent year's worth of issues.

One small arc that's been unfairly forgotten is Eddie Campbell's 4 issues on the series. He did some great stuff in those few issues (illustrated by Sean Phillips, my favorite Hellblazer artist) and it's a shame he didn't stick around for more; this story is smart, witty, somewhat creepy and mysterious, and definitely deserves to be mentioned as one of the finer short Hellblazer moments in between the bigger runs.

My other favorites are the 2 Grant Morrison issues, which interrupted Delano's great run and can be seen as a distillation and summation of the surrounding material, evoking Delano's themes of sinister political forces and apocalyptic madness in a much more condensed format.

[number8]

Yeah, Morrison's two issues were very informed by Delano's take (which makes sense, since it was early days), which is why I don't think it's that memorable other than the fact that I know Morrison drew the anti-nuclear inspiration from his own parents. The Neil Gaiman single issue resonated more, even if it's lite Gaiman stuff.

I didn't much care for Ellis' take because it just seemed all cynicism and attitude. I didn't feel that he was much invested in it (which is weird to say, I know, considering he quit in protest because of censorship). It just gave me the impression that he was taking the piss with the concept and the supernatural and just wrote Constantine as a toned down Spider Jerusalem.

[bac0n]

Has there been any talk in this thread about Legendary Comics (http://www.legendary.com/comics/)? From the looks of it, Legendary Films are diving into the comics world. Apparently they've snagged Grant Morrison to do a graphic novel called Annihilator and Guillermo del Toro to do a series that ties in to Pacific Rim. Also on board are Max Brooks, Mark Waid, and J. Michael Straczynski.

I am intrigued!

More here (http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/12/nycc-morrison-and-del-toro-craft-legendary-comics).

[Sven]

I'm all for new comic lines, and it's great that this one has some big names to bolster it. Morrison sci-fi epic... how is that anything but something to impatiently anticipate?

[number8]

Well, their first output was prett abysmal.

[Sven]

So Ennis is writing and directing Crossed webisodes and a movie. I cannot see that working. The whole point is that the series is too extreme for tactile reality, no?

[Spinal]

I definitely think of ECHO as a fun, well-crafted character piece more than a big sci-fi epic. It's certainly far from hard sci-fi. There are some thematic subtexts, but the emphasis is always on the characters and the wild superhero/sci-fi situations they get into.

And yes, it's a very boob-obsessed comic.

I don't post in this thread very much, but I've been reading Echo and I love it. I read a few things online about the movie rights being sold. IMDb has it slated for 2015. Anyone know any more?

[EyesWideOpen]

I don't post in this thread very much, but I've been reading Echo and I love it. I read a few things online about the movie rights being sold. IMDb has it slated for 2015. Anyone know any more?

I seriously doubt it gets made. There are a huge number of comic series whose rights get bought and maybe 1% of them actually get made into films/shows.

[Spinal]

I seriously doubt it gets made. There are a huge number of comic series whose rights get bought and maybe 1% of them actually get made into films/shows.

Bah. It would be awesome to see a smart effects-driven action film with all those strong female characters.

[EyesWideOpen]

Bah. It would be awesome to see a smart effects-driven action film with all those strong female characters.

You should give Rachel Rising a try. It's Terry Moore's new series. I loved Echo but I think I love Rachel Rising even more.

[Spinal]

I will seek it out.

[Sven]

I just finished re-reading Hickman's whole FF run. Making sense of some of the more confounding things has been a treat. Reads better at a chunk. Favorite illustrator highlights this round have been the brilliant work by Choi in the Nazi .1 issue, Kitson/Mounts going all-out during the Galactus/Mad Celestials conflict, Dragotta's Inhumans, and di Giandomenico's chapter in #600, following Johnny's escapades in the Negative Zone.

Truly, truly fantastic.

[megladon8]

I just finished re-reading Hickman's whole FF run. Making sense of some of the more confounding things has been a treat. Reads better at a chunk. Favorite illustrator highlights this round have been the brilliant work by Choi in the Nazi .1 issue, Kitson/Mounts going all-out during the Galactus/Mad Celestials conflict, Dragotta's Inhumans, and di Giandomenico's chapter in #600, following Johnny's escapades in the Negative Zone.

Truly, truly fantastic.


Yeah, I would love for this to all be collected in an omnibus.

Incredible stuff. Single handedly got me into the Fantastic Four.

[Spinal]

You should give Rachel Rising a try. It's Terry Moore's new series. I loved Echo but I think I love Rachel Rising even more.

Hmmm ... the ending to Echo was pretty disappointing. Those characters deserved a lot better.

[sevenarts]

I love both Echo and Rachel Rising. The latter is one of the best series around currently.

Here's some reviews of stuff I've read recently:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2011/08/wolf206.jpg
The Wolf (Tom Neely) - Neely first impressed me with his first graphic novel, The Blot, a wordless parable about a cartoony everyman chased by mysterious black splotches. The Wolf is in a similar vein: wordless, erotic, creepy, intense, and loaded with multiple symbolic suggestions. It's remarkable work, a silent fable about a man who transforms into a wolf and his sexual liasons with a woman who eventually begins transforming into a tree. It's gorgeous and creepy and evocative, starting out with crisp, clean black linework and added painted colors for the man and woman's sexual congress, including a brief sequence of abstract images that recall Brakhage's Love Story in its sensual formlessness. This book is enigmatic and suggestive, its meanings implied rather than outright stated, but it clearly concerns itself with the theme of humanity's place in the natural world: in sex and violence, the distinctions between humanity and other animals disappear, and an animalistic nature takes hold. Most importantly, though, Neely's work is never bogged down in its symbolism, it never seems heavy-handed or pretentious: it's just beautiful, graceful cartooning that perfectly balances cartoony figures with ragged horror, eroticism, and nightmarish surrealism.

http://www.comicon.com/resources/pulse/images_07a/4rasl4.jpg
RASL (Jeff Smith) - A very different kind of series for Bone's Jeff Smith, this is an adult sci-fi adventure crafted with a real noir sensibility. An art thief who hops around into parallel worlds to steal paintings, a sinister government operative who's chasing him, the femme fatales who come in between their struggles. The action is great, the characters are compelling, and Smith often shifts the plot into the background altogether in favor of scientific/philosophical discussions of the series' multiple-dimension concepts and the military-industrial complex's tendency to see every new innovation in science as a potential weapon. In a couple of the series' best issues, Smith pushes the plot aside to focus on the life of Nikola Tesla, interpolating conjectures and fictionalizations with Tesla's real (and somewhat stranger than fiction) life. Typically lovely art from Smith, coupled with a great story, all housed in a well-crafted genre framework - it reminds me a lot of the recent horror and sci-fi work that Terry Moore has been doing, in fact.

Hulk #1-57 (Jeph Loeb, Jeff Parker, & various artists) - A pretty fun series, first written by Loeb and then by Parker, focusing on the new character of the Red Hulk, whose identity is kept a secret for most of Loeb's run, and who turns out to be an iconic figure from Hulk's history. Loeb's run on the series is big, bold, and frankly ridiculous, an over-the-top smash-em-up showcase for the Red Hulk's steamroller rampage through the Marvel universe. A lot of Loeb's run is dedicated to crazed fight scenes, culminating with the hilarious image of Red Hulk actually punching Uatu the Watcher. It's all pretty lightweight, of course, but it's a blast and much of it is drawn by Ed McGuinness, who's well-suited to these widescreen fight scenes and epic splash pages. Towards the end of Loeb's run, the series gets bogged down in a sequence of crossovers that I only skimmed, and didn't feel like I missed too much - they're pretty tiresome and by that point you just want the reveal of the Red Hulk's (and Red She-Hulk's) identity already. When Parker takes over the writing, the series maintains its bold action orientation but also becomes a character study of the newly identified and now rehabilitated Red Hulk. Parker's time on the book has been much more substantial than Loeb's; it's still not much more than a fun smash-em-up book, of course, but it does look at the themes of rehabilitation, guilt, power, obsession, and the nature of humanity in more than a glancing way. Not exactly a top-of-the-line series but a dependably entertaining one. Parker has now retitled the series Red She-Hulk and appropriately shifted its emphasis, and I'm looking forward to seeing where he goes with this equally compelling character.

[ledfloyd]

isn't there still an issue of hickman's FF left? and i agree with meg that hickman's run single-handedly got me into the characters. in the last ten years there have been maybe 5 runs at the big two of that caliber. and two of them were produced by grant morrison.

[sevenarts]

isn't there still an issue of hickman's FF left? and i agree with meg that hickman's run single-handedly got me into the characters. in the last ten years there have been maybe 5 runs at the big two of that caliber. and two of them were produced by grant morrison.

Yes, the last issue comes out next week, I think. It's an amazing run, it definitely got me into these characters and ranks among the best things to come out of the Big Two ever. I can't wait to reread the whole thing.

[ledfloyd]

best issue of batwoman yet?

[number8]

best issue of batwoman yet?

In terms of art, yes.

[number8]

Also, Hawkeye is now officially my favorite ongoing.

[Sven]

Fraction's twittering has cemented the character's name in my mind now as Hawkguy. I think I like his tweets more than his books.

[sevenarts]

Also, Hawkeye is now officially my favorite ongoing.

I burst out laughing aloud for a solid few minutes at the Hawkeye-head censorship.

[number8]

I think I like his tweets more than his books.

Why you feel this, bro? Not good, bro.

[Sven]

I did like the start of his Thor run and his Iron Man is quite great.

[megladon8]

Also, Hawkeye is now officially my favorite ongoing.


I've been saying this but thought no one else here was reading it.

[ledfloyd]

i was just going to ask if hawkeye was worth reading. i will check it out now.

[Acapelli]

i love that marvel's best books are also their 2.99 books

hawkeye
daredevil
punisher
ff/fantastic 4

[ledfloyd]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=41734

pretty soon every significant writer is going to have an ongoing at image.

[number8]

It's funny how it's the trend these days. Get high profile jobs at Marvel and DC, gain a significant following, then do creator-owned stuff at Image.

Because you get a muuuch bigger cut of the profits there. There was an interview with BKV where he said that when he got his first royalty check from Saga, he was taken aback at how significantly larger it was than anything he's ever earned doing Y, Ex Machina and Runaways at Marvel and DC.

[number8]

This gave me a tiny lump in my throat, because I own every single issue of Brubaker's 7 year run.

Sequence from the first issue, back in 2005, compared to sequence from next week's final issue, both art by Steve Epting.

http://i.imgur.com/zE5ZIh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/m7D0c.jpg

[sevenarts]

Neat. I'm kinda glad Brubaker's Cap is ending though - it's been some time since it's really been that great, I think it's obvious that Brubaker's heart hasn't been in it the way it was at the beginning of his run. And this recent stuff with Cullen Bunn has been abysmal. I knew Brubaker would come back for a worthy final issue, though.


Oh and just noticed your new avatar, number8. Awesome.

[number8]

Yeah, the co-written issues were just bad, both in the regular Cap title and the previous Cap & Bucky title. Part of the problem is that Brubaker outlined the premises in his usual political thriller style and then Bunn wrote them as superhero swashbucklers, and it just reads terrible. The most recent arc, for example, seems to be Brubaker's indictment of the effect of political pundits, but Bunn somehow turned it into a weird aliens ("discordians"? lol) attacking and Zemo on a space station and Cap fighting Hydra on a jetpack story.

[dreamdead]

best issue of batwoman yet?

I'm going to like the symmetry in artistic design on rereads (where #13's first page and last page link up in structure), but some of the Diana segments felt a little overdone. It's a fine line with Williams and Blackman as scripters; they're taking us into Kate's head more than they did in the last arc, but not all of it is truly compelling. And they're trying to balance so much (Batwoman and WW, Bette and Kate's dad, Chase and Bones), that there's not quite enough propulsion forward. It's beautifully composed, certainly, but I suspect this current arc is going to read much smoother collected than in its month-to-month form.

[number8]

Hmm, I'm gonna respond to that in the New 52 thread.

[Grouchy]

Latest comic-book haul from NYC:

Batman: Birth of the Demon
Superman/Batman: Public Enemies
Daytripper

Planet Hulk

The Boys vols. 6-9
Neonomicon
Criminal: Last of the Innocent

[Sven]

Four bad issues to one good one isn't too heartening a ratio, even if the good one was tremendous. Untold Tales of the PunisherMAX. The artwork throughout was superlative, but the writers really insisted on generic.

[bac0n]

Curious to hear your thoughts on Neonomicon, Grouchy. I was rather underwhelmed.

[ledfloyd]

been working through hickman's run in preperation for wednesday. just getting into the war of the four cities right now. it's amazing how much epting brings to this book, it's a shame his involvement wasn't more consistent.

[Sven]

been working through hickman's run in preperation for wednesday. just getting into the war of the four cities right now. it's amazing how much epting brings to this book, it's a shame his involvement wasn't more consistent.

Agreed, but I think Kitson, Dragotta, and Eaglesham deliver on par. Only artist that I wasn't too keen on was Edwards, but he has a frequently awesome grasp of visual depth that helps.

[number8]

I like Eaglesham the best. I enjoy the way he rendered Reed as a scientist-adventurer in the Doc Savage mold, rather than the typically bookish type he's drawn as.

[sevenarts]

I've been reading a whole bunch of David Lapham lately, finally inspired to catch up with him since I've been loving his Age of Apocalypse series.


Stray Bullets - I'm not sure how or why I put off reading this for so long, but it's now one of the greatest pieces of crime fiction I've read in the comics medium. Lapham's sprawling epic isn't about the gangsters and thugs and killers so much as the innocents - and former innocents, and "innocents" - whose lives are impacted, generally in crushing ways, by violence and crime. Lapham patiently builds up a huge cast of characters whose lives intersect and then depart on separate trajectories, their stories coming together and apart with a gracefulness and logic that isn't the least bit forced. His brief is obvious from his brutal first issue, set in 1997, after which he flashes back to the late 70s, the rest of the series scattering its tales throughout the 70s and 80s but never approaching that more modern-day act of violence again - except in the sense that throughout the series, we see that issue's deranged killer as a young boy, and quickly come to understand how he became the damaged man he was in the series' introduction. But that's just one example of the series' themes: it's all about growing up, learning about the world, making mistakes and, if one is lucky, living to learn from them. That's why the series' best character has consistently been young, tough Virginia Applejack, a young girl who's made herself into a femme fatale before her time, and whose stories - both her own and those of her metafictional alter-ego Amy Racecar - form the heart and soul of Stray Bullets. Lapham's insistence that each issue stand on its own and close with "the end..." rather than "to be continued..." makes each issue of Stray Bullets an event in itself, with the impact and concision of a well-told short story. A few stand out in particular, like the absolutely devastating tale of Virginia's idyllic relationship with her father, or the morally complex and deeply unsettling story of a cop who's set off down the path to madness by a glimpse of the darkness and all-too-human evil lurking within his best friend, who is by all appearances and actions an entirely decent and good-hearted man. This is noirish fiction at its best. It's a shame that Lapham, who wrote and drew every issue himself, with his wife as his publisher, couldn't sustain himself economically with this independent model - he had to drop the series at issue 40, turning instead to freelancing and increasingly only writing rather than drawing his own stories. He's done great work since then but this remains his tantalizingly unfinished masterpiece.

Murder Me Dead - Written and drawn by Lapham during a year-long break from Stray Bullets, this miniseries isn't entirely distinct from its parent, though it distinguishes itself in subtle ways. It's a more straightforward noir series than anything in Stray Bullets, a mystery replete with private dicks, femmes fatale, murdered wives, mistresses, double and triple crosses, and all the other staples of the genre. It's a pretty good take on the genre too, with an especially strong opening few chapters and a stunning, twisty conclusion. In between, it meanders a bit, and the characters aren't as well-defined or memorable as Stray Bullets mainstays like Virginia and Beth - the women, especially, are fairly one-dimensional in comparison to Lapham's best heroines, and he gives in more often than usual to the impulse for caricature that occasionally mars his work. This is one that Lapham fans will surely appreciate in the context of his other work, but ultimately one wishes that he'd spent this time doing more Stray Bullets instead.

Young Liars - This is really something. I'm not sure what, yet, but it's definitely *something*. This was Lapham's big jump to the mainstream, with a high-profile Vertigo series written and drawn by him, and in color. Interestingly, he took this opportunity to craft something WAY weirder, less commercial, and more challenging than Stray Bullets - while it's easy to imagine Lapham's flagship series catching on as a popular success at a big publisher, it's equally easy to see why Young Liars never did, eventually getting cancelled at 18 issues. It's a truly bizarre piece of work, a surreal punk adventure tale in which all the characters are cliches - the bad girl, the guy who idolizes her, the spoiled rich kid, the druggie transvestite, the shallow beauty, the anorexic model - and there's no stability, no comfort in knowing that whatever else happens, there's some narrative logic at work underneath at all. Lapham crafted the series on a shifting bedrock of outrageous lies and false stories, so that something might happen in one issue only to be undone a few issues later. The protagonist is the definition of an unreliable narrator, and the series leaps unpredictably from one crazy scenario to the next. Multiple characters might die in one issue only to be resurrected in the next. Identities shift without warning, even names aren't very reliable, and it's highly possible that everything that happens in the series is just a nested sequence of fantasies and tall tales. And it's great! It took me a while to warm up to the series, to catch on to the fact that what seems at first like hackneyed ultraviolence and cardboard characters is actually a parody of that kind of story, and a devilishly clever one at that. It's all about the lies that people construct around their identities, especially the ultimate lie, the lie that casts every individual as the hero of his or her own story. And along the way there's alien spiders, corporate intrigue, memory-altering drugs, and a very appropriate suggested playlist of punk and post-punk classics by the Fall, Wire, Pere Ubu, Swans, etc. Wild, sloppy, partly improvised and utterly unpredictable, this was a delirious ride and deserved much more attention.

Dan the Unharmable - One of Lapham's current ongoings for Avatar Press, and like most Avatar books the focus is on over-the-top gore and violence and shock tactics - but it also undeniably bears Lapham's imprint. Its quirky hero is a slacker private detective who quite literally can't be harmed physically, and whose invulnerability seemingly also extends to his unflappable persona. It's all very self-consciously "extreme" - lots bodies hacked in half, rape allusions, creepy and nasty villains, blood-and-guts action scenes galore - but within that framework Lapham maintains a breezy tone that keeps things mostly entertaining rather than seedy. It's all pretty lightweight action and violence, with a slightly more serious undercurrent in the examination of how Dan's invulnerability affects his personality and his relationships with other people and the world around him. Not up there with the best Lapham work but definitely an interesting enough series. Nice art by Rafael Ortiz, too, perfectly capturing the series' mood.

[ledfloyd]

Agreed, but I think Kitson, Dragotta, and Eaglesham deliver on par. Only artist that I wasn't too keen on was Edwards, but he has a frequently awesome grasp of visual depth that helps.

i'm not huge on kitson, but dragotta is great; i love the panel with the thing looking up at the avengers in #588. so moving. as 8 pointed out, eaglesham's doc savage vibe is excellent as well. epting just does the large-scale cosmic stuff so well.

the tocchini issues in particular just feel... diminished.

[Sven]

the tocchini issues in particular just feel... diminished.

Great moment from MorrisonCon: commiserating with Hickman about those who "just don't get" Tocchini.

[Sven]

Slowly reading Hine/Tan's Spawn run. This is feverish, demented stuff. First Spawn I've ever read, and I can't say they're making it easy for me.

[number8]

I figured of all Spawn runs, you'd read the Grant Morrison issues, heh.

[megladon8]

The solicitations are out for a new Star Wars comic (entitled, simply "Star Wars") starting in January and written by Brian Wood.

I'm really intrigued and will probably add it to my pull list.

He re-writes what takes place in the universe and to the main characters (Han, Luke and Leia) after the Death Star is destroyed in the first film.

Sounds like it could be really cool. First Star Wars comic I've decided to actively follow.

[number8]

Yeah, Wood said he's not familiar with the EU, so his series is meant to appeal to people who aren't, either. You only need to know the movies.

[megladon8]

Yeah, Wood said he's not familiar with the EU, so his series is meant to appeal to people who aren't, either. You only need to know the movies.


It sounds like you only need to know the first movie, from what I understand.

I don't think he's just writing new comic versions of "Empire" and "Jedi" - he's completely rewriting the story after the destruction of the first Death Star.

I really hope this comes out well. It's an awesome idea.

[number8]

He's not. The series is just set between A New Hope and Empire.


Wood described his experience at the recent Star Wars Celebration convention where he "got in some trouble" after having made the controversial statement that in this series, the subsequent movies "never happened." He was confronted by concerned "Star Wars" fans and had to explain that what he meant was that for the characters, the events of those movies haven't happened yet. This will make for some unusual character dynamics, considering Vader has not yet met Luke Skywalker, and Luke and Leia do not know they are brother and sister. "The two of them are still flirting at this stage," Wood joked. "So that could make for some awkward situations."

[Ezee E]

The solicitations are out for a new Star Wars comic (entitled, simply "Star Wars") starting in January and written by Brian Wood.

I'm really intrigued and will probably add it to my pull list.

He re-writes what takes place in the universe and to the main characters (Han, Luke and Leia) after the Death Star is destroyed in the first film.

Sounds like it could be really cool. First Star Wars comic I've decided to actively follow.
Differences between that and Shadow of the Empire?

[Grouchy]

Batman: Birth of the Demon
This title is an antology of three classic Ra's Al Ghul stories. The first is Son of the Demon (1987), the comic Grant Morrison used to create Batman and Son. I find the concept of Batman fathering a son with Talia actually appealing, but the way the story is handled is not really in tune with Batman's character. I don't have a problem with Bruce considering giving up the cape and cowl to form a family - after all, this is an important subject for him considering that the whole starting point of the crusade is the loss of his own family. But the way Batman blindly agrees to become a soldier in Al Ghul's crusade simply out of blind love for Talia didn't ring true to me. He even hands Ra's a machine gun at one point saying "you might as well put this to good use" or some such shit. The direct sequel, Daughter of the Demon, is even less interesting and more dated despite being published several years later.

Birth of the Demon is where it's at. Spectacularly drawn by Norm Breyfogle, the comic deals with Ra's Al Ghul's secret origin and Denny's O'Neill, the creator of the character, does a great job at infusing the tale with gravitas. It's several steps above the other two comics, and the "last stand" (actually only one of many) between Batman and Ra's is impressive.

Superman/Batman: Public Enemies
I'm not really sure why I bought this since I already owned the Spanish edition. I guess it's just that I really enjoy good blockbuster superhero comics and, nevermind his other limitations as a writer, that's something Jeph Loeb really excels at. The first two arcs of Superman/Batman are some really entertaining stuff. I'm not sure where the series went after those since I only read a few, but I imagine it only got more ridiculous in an escalating war to upstage every other story arc, action-wise.

Daytripper
This would be the perfect comic to recommend to someone who questions the validity of the medium to tell a wide range of stories. Daytripper is about an ordinary man living in Sao Paulo who experiences a series of "deaths" at different points in his life. Every issue describes a day in the life of Brás and ends with one of his dramatic deaths, only for the next issue to tell us another chapter further ahead in his life. It's not a fantasy or science-fiction comic, though - I believe the right way to classify this would be "magical realism". Gerard Bá and Fabio Moon use this unusual device not to meditate on time or the universe, but on the ordinary trials of living and on issues of fatherhood and trascendence. I wasn't as amazed with it as some of the reviewers, but this is still very good stuff and it has heavenly drawings.

Planet Hulk
As I said, I love me some "big budget" superhero action and this Hulk story arc really delivers. It's all stereotypical stuff, but really well done. Hulk is once again betrayed by his superhero friends and sent to rot in a wasteland planet because he's deemed to dangerous for Earth. At first he participates in some gladiator games highly reminiscent of DC's Warworld with a Mongul stand-in. But the plot thickens as there's some debate that Hulk might be the Messiah this planet was looking for. I was enjoying inmensely until the very end, when the planet is destroyed by a time-bomb device in the same space ship that brought Hulk there on the first place.

Not such a shit idea as these ideas go, but when Greg Pak had already created such a detailed alien world for Hulk to play emperor at, I wish he'd waited a few issues to blast it away. There could have been at least a couple of years of good Hulk stories set in outer space.

The Boys vols. 6-9
This series is truly amazing stuff. I'm already a huge Garth Ennis fanboy but his writing skills never cease to amaze me. He seems to master every character, every accent, every situation, with a never-ending display of great dark comedy and stuff every person, not just comic-book freaks, can relate to. One of his many talents that rise him above other writers is the way he can turn a goofy premise into truly affecting, vibrant stories. A comic about drug-addicted, power-hungry, celebrity superheroes and the CIA team that exists to keep them in line should not be this involving and profound, and yes, it is.

I wasn't sold on Darrick Robertson but his progression to the early issues of The Boys to the stuff on TPBs is amazing. He really masters all of his characters and makes them truly expressive.

Neonomicon
Alan Moore. No other like him. This volume has both his H.P. Lovecraft stories, The Courtyard and Neonomicon, and... they're amazing. I'm still trying to digest them as we speak, actually. This is no mere name-dropping or references. This is a modern-day HPL story which expands and puts many twist in the world of Cthulhu mythos and worshipping. For one thing, the protagonists of Neonomicon are wise to the writings of Lovecraft as fiction, something uncommon in Cthulhu Mythos stories as far as I know. Secondly, the comic (I shouldn't be surprised since Moore wrote it) specifically tackles the implied racism of Lovecraft's writings and his asexuality. Even more than that, he shows the harsh and brutal reality of what exactly goes on during Dagon worship.

There's something very meta about the whole comic, as the protagonist herself admits the murder case she's investigating seems like a "literary game", and literary games have been Moore's field since he started League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which basically has the same approach of trying to see how fictional worlds could exist in the real world, which is something that goes back all the way to Watchmen.

Criminal: Last of the Innocent
Cool stuff. Not ground-breaking or anything, but a neat noir story about comics and nostalgia. The first Criminal story I've read.

[number8]

I actually think Russ Braun has become the better fit for The Boys.

[sevenarts]

The Boys was entertaining enough, but really pretty empty in the long run - some good character work, especially surrounding Hughie, but always brought back down into the gutter by Ennis' juvenile sense of humor and desire to rub our noses in how shocking he is. It was usually fun, but anything but "profound."

That Criminal arc, on the other hand, really bowled me over. Definitely the best thing Brubaker/Phillips have ever done - really powerful and clever stuff there. The way it mirrors its ideas about nostalgia in the distortions of old Archie comics takes what might have been a simple gimmick and makes it genuinely moving.

[Grouchy]

The Boys was entertaining enough, but really pretty empty in the long run - some good character work, especially surrounding Hughie, but always brought back down into the gutter by Ennis' juvenile sense of humor and desire to rub our noses in how shocking he is. It was usually fun, but anything but "profound."

That Criminal arc, on the other hand, really bowled me over. Definitely the best thing Brubaker/Phillips have ever done - really powerful and clever stuff there. The way it mirrors its ideas about nostalgia in the distortions of old Archie comics takes what might have been a simple gimmick and makes it genuinely moving.
Eeeh I feel the exact opposite. I liked Last of the Innocent, it's great comics, but it felt like something I already read. One way or another, the gritty killin' of nostalgia was already done to death with the superhero genre in the '80s. To apply it to Archie Comics is simply another step.

Instead, The Boys simply adds layers and layers of depth. The Secret History of America thing with VA and the birth of espionage, Hughie's Scottish background and psychological profile, the 9/11 connection and the love story thrown in the middle of all the madness... They enrich the premise for me.

And I have no problem with the foul humor and violence because they make me laugh. I guess I'm on its wavelenght.

[Ezee E]

Found a comic book store that looks like it'll stay in business for a while, and has a good assortment. Wondering what volumes I should explore into now... I'll probably make a weekly Wednesday visit since it costs the same online as it does for the print version.

[sevenarts]

Some more recent reading. I've been catching up with a lot of comics lately.


Demo v2 (Brian Wood & Becky Cloonan) - The first series of Demo was the big break for writer Wood and artist Cloonan, introducing them via a series of one-issue short stories about young people with superpowers. I was rather unimpressed by most of it, other than the obvious appeal of Cloonan's art, so it took me a while to move on the second volume, made 6 years after the first. Volume 2, fortunately, is much, much better, with a noticeable jump in the quality, in particular, of Wood's writing. Cloonan was always great, but this time around Wood is giving her more to work with than juvenile creative writing exercises. Well, for the most part, anyway. Issue #1 is a typically clunky melodrama reminiscent of the worst stuff from v1, with a groaner of an ending that makes me think of the South Park episode where they had M. Night Shymalan running around gleefully exclaiming, "it's a tweest!" It gets better, thankfully. The second issue is a haunting, creepy horror piece with shades of Marina de Van's In My Skin, which, given Wood's tendency to cite art films, is a not-unlikely influence. The third issue is the clear pinnacle, though, a story that could be almost unbearably twee and cutesy but is instead rendered sweet, simple, and heartbreakingly poetic through Wood's restraint and Cloonan's feather-light anime-inspired art. Cloonan's the real star throughout this series, as evidenced by the massive stylistic gap between that glistening, cartoony cuteness and the dark, gloomy style she uses for the horrific issue 2. The rest of the stories in this series are at least pretty good, too, though none stand out quite like those 2 issues, especially #3. It's a stunner, and pretty much justifies the entirety of Demo all by itself.

Phonogram (Kieron Gillen & Jamie McKelvie) - I've read a bunch from these guys, especially Gillen, via their recent Marvel work, but have never gotten around to their original creator-owned series. It's very high-concept, about "phonomancers" who make literal the idea that music is magical. The high-concept gimmickry gets in the way a bit too much in the first miniseries, about a sorceror whose music of choice is Britpop, and who is trying to foil a plot to exploit his favored music for a forced retro revival. It's clever and occasionally potent, but on the whole there's way too much namedropping, and the focus on plot prevents it from being the simple, heartfelt appreciation of music's power that it's clearly striving to be. The second series, called "The Singles Club," corrects that problem by paring down the plot and focusing on seven different characters, one in each issue, over the course of a single night at a dance club. This miniseries is genuinely great, honing in on the many meanings of music in people's lives, the ways in which we use music to define ourselves, to create alternate identities, to express our ideas, and sometimes as crutches to prevent us from really living. It's very poignant and smart and often wickedly funny as well, and here the constant namedropping and music-as-metaphor stuff becomes background set dressing rather than distracting from the characters. Really great, and Jamie McKelvie's stark, clean art looks even better in the eye-popping, bold colors of the second series than it did in black-and-white in the first volume. Very highly recommended, even if the first volume is a comparatively weak start. There's supposed to be a third volume eventually, that currently has been pushed back to late 2013, so now may be a good time to catch up before that comes out.

[ledfloyd]

The rest of the stories in this series are at least pretty good, too, though none stand out quite like those 2 issues, especially #3. It's a stunner, and pretty much justifies the entirety of Demo all by itself.
this is the one with the post it notes right? so unbelievably good.

[ledfloyd]

i've been of the opinion hickman's run has been a bit scattershot since issue #605, but it's hard to argue with FF #23. it's... fantastic.

[dreamdead]

I've been meaning to locate a university library that has Phonogram. Really don't want to buy a weak first volume, even if all the buzz I've heard says that it gets better afterwards.

I read Snyder's Severed over the weekend. This thing seemed like it was going to be excellent around the halfway mark. Hell, that kiss atop the building construction is a marvel of epic coloration and minimal dialogue. But that ending, which struggles to justify the tale-within-a-tale narrative, just peters out so badly and fails to say anything meaningful that I feel undercuts its own structure. Lose the narrative framework and the story becomes more powerful, not less. Nicely drawn, but as a cumulative experience it doesn't really go beyond scares. I did, however, find Samantha's death was surprisingly effective, since I went an issue past her death still hoping she'd escaped somehow.

[sevenarts]

this is the one with the post it notes right? so unbelievably good.

Yeah, that's the one. I was so stunned by it I immediately went back to the beginning and read it all over again, something I almost never do, and it was great all over again. It's a story that could easily have come off as unbearably gimmicky, but instead it's just a perfect, sweet, charming, moving love story.


dreamdead, I agree that Severed's ending is somewhat lackluster, but the rest of it is so well-done - atmospheric horror that slowly builds... and builds... and builds - that I'm willing to forgive it for not sticking the landing. It's so creepy, and simultaneously so beautiful, for much of its length.

[Ezee E]

How long does it take for a volume to be released. The Shadow looks pretty good, but I don't want to start at issue #6, and my shop doesn't have #1-4

[sevenarts]

i've been of the opinion hickman's run has been a bit scattershot since issue #605, but it's hard to argue with FF #23. it's... fantastic.

Uh, yeah. Honestly brought me to tears, between the well-earned sentiment of the story and the realization that this is Hickman saying goodbye.

I have liked most of the standalone issues Hickman has been doing as wrap-up - the Black Panther issues were a little blah, and some others weren't quite top-notch, but much of it was still great. The finale totally nails it though.

[Ezee E]

Almost texted 8 for recommendations this afternoon...

[Sven]

How long does it take for a volume to be released. The Shadow looks pretty good, but I don't want to start at issue #6, and my shop doesn't have #1-4

It's a cool series so far, but Ennis stops after 6, Victor Gischler is taking over. Has potential, but I'll only keep reading it if the reviews are good. My guess is that the trade for the first six issues will be announced next Previews, which means it'll be about three months away.

[number8]

Dunno where else to post this sushi article I wrote, so I'm gonna put it here since I talk about Get Jiro!

http://www.artboiled.com/2012/the-martial-art-of-making-sushi/

[Sven]

Final issues of:

FF: *wipes tear away
JIM: *heart quickens
Incredible Hulk: *cricket chirps

[Kurosawa Fan]

What's everyone's opinion on Geoff Johns? I just read his Flash trade "Blood Will Run" and found it pretty crass stuff. Very disappointing. I was under the impression he was fairly highly regarded.

[number8]

He's like the Ron Howard of comics.

[Kurosawa Fan]

He's like the Ron Howard of comics.

Fucking hell. It is REALLY fucking hard to get into comics. It's a huge weakness, and I'm trying to break into it, but the conflicting opinions seem pretty daunting.

Is there somewhere I can go to get reliable opinions about writers/artists and the series they're working on other than constantly bugging you guys?

Is Morrison someone I should be reading? I have his JLA Vol. 1 and loved his All Star Superman, but I've read him get trashed as well.

[sevenarts]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's totally bored by Johns.


Is Morrison someone I should be reading? I have his JLA Vol. 1 and loved his All Star Superman, but I've read him get trashed as well.

Morrison is definitely someone you should be reading. All Star Superman is top-quality work, a total masterpiece. I'm not as crazy about his JLA, which doesn't really display his strengths especially well. Very few people with taste diss his actual work - most of the dissatisfaction with him in recent years is caused by some controversial statements in interviews and the general sense that he can be a bit of a self-promoting douche. But so what? The man writes amazing comics. I love Seaguy, The Filth, Animal Man, Doom Patrol, and so much more. He's not a bad place to start, especially if you like superheroes, since he's one of the better writers to work consistently in the mainstream and do interesting things with superhero properties.

Honestly, the state of comics criticism is pretty sad, so there aren't many places to go other than finding a message board like this and gradually get a sense of people whose tastes align with yours. Give us a general idea of what you like and I'm sure people here will throw out lots of recs.

[number8]

Fucking hell. It is REALLY fucking hard to get into comics. It's a huge weakness, and I'm trying to break into it, but the conflicting opinions seem pretty daunting.

Don't worry about it. It's the same with movies, you're gonna have the people here touting differently than mainstream fanboys. I picked Ron Howard as a comparison because he's powerful in the industry, well-liked by a lot of people, and generally gets pretty good reviews. Johns is the same way, but you're gonna have the buffs finding his writing blandzilla.

[number8]

The last issue of Kieron Gillen's Journey into Mystery has a special someone sending a letter in to the writer.

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/hiddleston-loki.png

[megladon8]

Fucking hell. It is REALLY fucking hard to get into comics. It's a huge weakness, and I'm trying to break into it, but the conflicting opinions seem pretty daunting.

Is there somewhere I can go to get reliable opinions about writers/artists and the series they're working on other than constantly bugging you guys?

Is Morrison someone I should be reading? I have his JLA Vol. 1 and loved his All Star Superman, but I've read him get trashed as well.


Have you checked out any of the recc's I sent you?

Kind of like 8 said, people who like comics are very passionate and have strong opinions. If you ask 10 different people, you get 10 different answers on any one question.

I think Johns writes quality epic action comics - I liked his work on Green Lantern and some of his Flash stuff.

Morrison is a pretty tried-and-true talent. He's had a few missteps (who hasn't?) but generally his comics are at least interesting even when they fail, rather than being bland and one-note.

Check out Garth Ennis' run on "Punisher MAX" (collected in 5 hardcover volumes). It's pretty amazing stuff.

I also STRONGLY recommend, KF, that you check out "Criminal" by Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips. It's crime fiction that transcends both its genre and medium - some of the best crime stories ever told.

[Ezee E]

No idea on writers myself yet, just finding storylines I like right now. Hopefully that leads into writers soon enough.

Who is the Scorsese of comics???

[Sven]

Who is the Scorsese of comics???

People will say Brubs, though I disagree. He's a fine storyteller, but I fine his work bereft of depth.

I would probably say Ennis, mostly for his knack with aggressive language and penchant for violence.

I HIGHLY recommend The Last Days of American Crime by Rick Remender and Greg Tocchini.

[Sven]

http://comicbookjesus.files.wordpress .com/2009/10/prv3476_pg2.jpg

[number8]

Yeah Ennis is the obvious Scorsese. Same sense of humor too.

Brubaker's more of a Fincher.

[number8]

This is kinda fun.

Jason Aaron is the Tarantino, right?

And Mark Millar is obviously Michael Bay.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Have you checked out any of the recc's I sent you?

I put them on my B&N list for birthday/Christmas ideas from my wife and kids, so hopefully I'll get to at least a couple before the end of the year. I'll let you know as soon as I do.


Kind of like 8 said, people who like comics are very passionate and have strong opinions. If you ask 10 different people, you get 10 different answers on any one question.

I think Johns writes quality epic action comics - I liked his work on Green Lantern and some of his Flash stuff.

Morrison is a pretty tried-and-true talent. He's had a few missteps (who hasn't?) but generally his comics are at least interesting even when they fail, rather than being bland and one-note.

Check out Garth Ennis' run on "Punisher MAX" (collected in 5 hardcover volumes). It's pretty amazing stuff.

I also STRONGLY recommend, KF, that you check out "Criminal" by Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips. It's crime fiction that transcends both its genre and medium - some of the best crime stories ever told.Awesome. I've been trying to stick to stuff that my son can read as well so we can discuss them later, but I do want to get some more "mature" titles as well. I actually own a few of the individual issues of "Criminal" from their initial release. I liked what I read, but I've never lived anywhere near a decent comic book store, and driving almost 20 minutes to buy stuff on a pull list always ended up getting put off, and then the shop would put my stuff out before I picked them up. I've decided to just wait for trades on everything so I can buy online.


Honestly, the state of comics criticism is pretty sad, so there aren't many places to go other than finding a message board like this and gradually get a sense of people whose tastes align with yours. Give us a general idea of what you like and I'm sure people here will throw out lots of recs.

It's really hard to say what I like and don't like at this point, because I'm so inexperienced. I haven't read much. Loved Watchmen, loved All Star Superman, loved The Long Halloween, liked New 52 Wonder Woman, and am currently loving The Dark Knight Returns. I like moral complexity/ambiguity, though that pretty much describes anyone, right? I like violence when it's called for, I like super hero stories that feel unique. I mean, I feel like all of this is so superficial and impossible to use for recommendations, but as I said, I'm so inexperienced that it's hard to go into any more depth regarding my taste. One thing I hate is feeling lost, like I need more back story to appreciate the book I'm reading and should have read an issue or a trade prior.


Don't worry about it. It's the same with movies, you're gonna have the people here touting differently than mainstream fanboys. I picked Ron Howard as a comparison because he's powerful in the industry, well-liked by a lot of people, and generally gets pretty good reviews. Johns is the same way, but you're gonna have the buffs finding his writing blandzilla.

I figured it wasn't going to be something that was cut and dry, but part of what's so daunting about this is all of the back stories, as I mentioned above. I feel like even if I find a writer that clicks with me, I can still feel like I'm dropping into the middle of something and should be more well read in order to read a book, especially when it comes to the super hero runs. I've added the Hickman Fantastic Four run to my wish list, but I see there's Fantastic Four, as well as FF, and that the issues might have been running concurrently (though this could just be an error on Amazon/B&N, where there are many errors when it comes to stating what issues are in a particular trade), and the last thing I want is to spend money on these trades and feel like Donnie from Lebowski. I'm not exactly a wealthy guy.

If I had a reliable library system, I'd use that more often, but mine is awful and has such little variety when it comes to comics that it's not worth taking advantage of.

[number8]

I've added the Hickman Fantastic Four run to my wish list, but I see there's Fantastic Four, as well as FF, and that the issues might have been running concurrently (though this could just be an error on Amazon/B&N, where there are many errors when it comes to stating what issues are in a particular trade), and the last thing I want is to spend money on these trades and feel like Donnie from Lebowski. I'm not exactly a wealthy guy.

They did run concurrently. It started as Fantastic Four, then got replaced by FF, and then Fantastic Four started again but FF kept running as its sister title. For a good reason, don't worry. When you followed it monthly, the way the stories flowed from one to the other was beautiful.

I haven't followed what the trades are like. I was hoping that they'd just bundle them together chronologically. Kinda sucks if they're separated.

[Kurosawa Fan]

They did run concurrently. It started as Fantastic Four, then got replaced by FF, and then Fantastic Four started again but FF kept running as its sister title. For a good reason, don't worry. When you followed it monthly, the way the stories flowed from one to the other was beautiful.

I haven't followed what the trades are like. I was hoping that they'd just bundle them together chronologically. Kinda sucks if they're separated.

According to this (http://www.mycomicshop.com/search?TID=20808691), it seems as though they're separated, but this (http://www.amazon.com/Fantastic-Four-Jonathan-Hickman-Vol/dp/0785145419/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1351199156&sr=8-4&keywords=fantastic+four+hickma n) seems to suggest that FF 6-11 are in Fantastic Four Vol. 2. Which doesn't make a lot of sense since Vol. 1 doesn't contain any FF issues, going by the description on Amazon.

Maybe this is just too much for me. It's aggravating as hell right now.

[sevenarts]

Yeah the trades separate Fantastic Four and FF, which is very unfortunate for the end of the run, when the two titles alternate issues. I'm guessing - and hoping - that now that Hickman is done, the whole run will be collected in some big omnibus collections with the proper reading order.

It's well worth reading though, it's gotta be one of the best superhero runs ever.

I always recommend From Hell if you're interested in non-superhero fare at all - written by Alan Moore, drawn by Eddie Campbell, really intense and ambiguous dissection of the Jack the Ripper tale.

I'd also heartily second the recommendation of Criminal, crime fiction doesn't get much better or more stylish than that. And Gotham Central, by Ed Brubaker and Greg Rucka, is a great police drama set in the Batman world.

[number8]

After looking into it, I am pretty sure that is an Amazon description error.

This is FF Vol 2: http://www.amazon.com/FF-Vol-2-Jonathan-Hickman/dp/0785157700/ref=pd_sim_b_4

[number8]

Here, I broke it down for you. The order it was published was like this:

Fantastic Four 570-588
FF 1-11
Fantastic Four 600
FF 12

And then it went on concurrently. For a while they even came out the same day because they were telling the same story from 2 different groups' perspective, and later shifted to be one week apart so they can lead from one to the other.


Trade wise, this is how you should read it:

1. http://www.amazon.com/Fantastic-Four-Jonathan-Hickman-Vol/dp/0785136886 (F4 570-574)

2. http://www.amazon.com/Fantastic-Four-Jonathan-Hickman-Vol/dp/0785145419 (F4 575-578)

3. http://www.amazon.com/Fantastic-Four-Jonathan-Hickman-Vol/dp/0785147187/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_z (F4 579-582)

4. http://www.amazon.com/Fantastic-Four-Jonathan-Hickman-Vol/dp/0785151435/ref=pd_sim_b_1 (F4 583-588)

5. http://www.amazon.com/FF-Vol-1-Jonathan-Hickman/dp/0785151451/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351212218&sr=1-1 (FF 1-5)

6. http://www.amazon.com/FF-Vol-2-Jonathan-Hickman/dp/0785157700/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_y (FF 6-11)



Actually, that's all that's available on TPB right now (the rest are still in hardcover), and it's the perfect place to stop before the big confusing concurrent run. So there's your start.

[Kurosawa Fan]

8, you fucking rock. Sorry for being so inept at this myself. I'll be sure to read them in that order.

Sevenarts, thanks for the suggestions. If you think of any others, keep them coming. I'm open to any and all books, regardless of genre.

[Ezee E]

Maybe this is just too much for me. It's aggravating as hell right now.

I'm in a similar state. My approach is going with new storylines, and follow as I like.

Not many though... Snyder's Joker run is a must for myself. And as mentioned, the Superman, Dark Knight, Walking Dead and Swamp Thing/Animal Man.

Marvel Now has some titles that I'll certainly start with.

I'll start looking into trades from Ennis and Brubaker.

Sven, Last Days of American Crime looks like my kind of thing. Thanks.

[Ezee E]

Oh... So what's Scott Snyder?

[Ezee E]

So...

Garth Ennis:
The Boys
Shadow 1-6
Back to Brooklyn
A Man Called Kev

What should I go with?

[sevenarts]

Have you read Ennis' Preacher, Hellblazer or Punisher MAX? Because all of those are much better choices.

Of the ones you list, Kev is probably the best but that's the last of a few different miniseries so not the best place to start either unless you've read the other Authority Kev books.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Started Preacher, liked what I read. I'll have to add it to the list. Also started Y:the Last Man. Worth reading? How about Fables?

[ledfloyd]

i love Y: the last man, and i'm sure a bunch of others will second that. i liked fables a lot initially, but i checked out after issue #75 which wrapped up a lot of the storylines that were going up to that point. to be honest, i was tired of the book awhile before that.

[Sven]

I'd pair Remender and the Coen Bros. Also, I think Millar and Bay isn't quite right. Retarded in different ways. Bay isn't quite so cruel and Millar not quite so generic. I'd probably pair Bay with someone like Chuck Dixon, Millar with Roger Avary.

Kinda have to pair Ellis with James Cameron, though maybe Duncan Jones after a good third film could supplant him. Matt Fraction - Richard Kelly.

[Sven]

I'm giving Jim Starlin to Brian De Palma (time and space), Brubaker to Bryan Singer (nice polish), Rucka::Mamet (tight crime plots w/great dialogue). David Hine is absolutely David Lynch. Peter Milligan, I'd probably say Cronenberg. Andy Diggle to Guy Ritchie is an obv. This is a fun game.

[megladon8]

Scott Snyder would maybe be like a John Carpenter - most known for forrays into horror, but has some successful and well liked action stuff that still has that darkness to it, like he can't fully abandon his horror roots.

Robert Kirkman is George Romero, and not just for the zombies, but for his other projects which many hardcore fans feel are better than his zombie work, but he always comes back to those zombie stories and will seemingly be doing them forever.

[Sven]

Scott Snyder would maybe be like a John Carpenter

Same conclusion came to me in bed last night.


Robert Kirkman is George Romero

Not feeling this one, though. Romero's plotting is not as tight, and Kirkman's not subversive enough.

I'd probably go:
Kirkman - Sam Raimi
Bruce Jones - Romero

[dreamdead]

Started Preacher, liked what I read. I'll have to add it to the list. Also started Y:the Last Man. Worth reading? How about Fables?

I think you'll like Y; it wanders a bit, but the last two or three issues are right devastating. That might be apropos to Vaughan's work in general; Ex Machina wanders similarly, but that last issue is a killer. Most libraries have his stuff, so that should save you a small fortune.

I think led would back me on this, so I'll recommend jumping in on the ground floor with his current project Saga, which should have a collected volume available which would bring you fully up to speed for when it resumes serialization here soon.

Sven, what filmmakers would you place Moore and Busiek beside?

[Sven]

Sven, what filmmakers would you place Moore and Busiek beside?

I thought about Moore and Morrison for a little bit, but was unable to conjure an apt comparison. I think Oliver Stone comes close for Moore. Big stories, experimental approaches, political resonance, colorful characters, works with great visualists.

Busiek probably compares best with someone like Marc Forster. Someone whose films are varied and script-driven, but also fantastical with subtler stylistic flourishes. Measured balance of exciting and deliberate.

[Ezee E]

KUBRICK???

WELLES?

[number8]

I think Alan Moore would be Kubrick. Very formalist style, lots of adherence to symmetry, and repeated imageries for pacing, use of enigmatic visual allegories. They have very similar feels. Then, obviously, they both have the exact same revered status in their respective industries. Moore, however, is a little more emotionally bare than Kubrick.

[Sven]

Pretty good choice, actually, though I think Moore is much more florid and funny than Kubrick ever was. Can't imagine 'brick doing anything like League or Top Ten, for example.

[sevenarts]

I'm psyched, I just went to a comic shop and set up an actual pull list, something I've never done before. I wanted to support some of the stuff I'm enjoying on a monthly basis instead of waiting for trades and collections.

This is the small list I'm getting, almost entirely Image books:

FATALE
GLORY
MANHATTAN PROJECTS
MULTIPLE WARHEADS
MIND MGMT
PROPHET
RACHEL RISING
SAGA

[ledfloyd]

I'm still stuck on the Scorsese of comics. Brubaker comes to mind because of the crime focus, but honestly, he has a lot more in common with Scorsese's forebears than scorsese himself. The Brubaker analogue that immediately came to mind, oddly enough, is Robert Siodmak. Perhaps early Frank Miller (Daredevil/DKR era) is in line with Scorsese?

This is difficult for me. I don't really see the Aaron/Tarantino connection. I think there's a pretty stark disconnect between them. Bay/Millar seems completely accurate.

[number8]

They told you that Glory is getting cancelled, right?

[sevenarts]

They told you that Glory is getting cancelled, right?

Crap, no. That's lousy news, I've really been enjoying that series. Not selling well I guess? I hope they at least let Keatinge wrap things up a bit, though his plotting has been mostly aimed at the long-term arc so far.

edit: Actually, where did you hear that? A quick Google search turns up nothing.

[Sven]

Just realized that Terry Gilliam is the better choice for Peter Milligan.

[ledfloyd]

Just realized that Terry Gilliam is the better choice for Peter Milligan.
spot-on.

[Grouchy]

Ennis seems more like a Tarantino for me.

The Scorsese of comics is Will Eisner.

[sevenarts]

Nah, Will Eisner's Orson Welles.

[EyesWideOpen]

Ennis seems more like a Tarantino for me.



Ennis is more like Eli Roth.

[number8]

Eli Roth has never been as poetic or romantic.

[megladon8]

Same conclusion came to me in bed last night.


Hehehe..."came in bed"...tee-hee.

...

I'll leave.

[megladon8]

Issue 1 of "Wolverine MAX" was pretty ho-hum.

A lot of totally unnecessary swearing, which seemed to be there simply to reinforce the idea that this is a MAX title (for adults!).

Opening the comic with Wolverine vs. a shark was pretty fun, but it's going to have to do something new and fresh in the next few issues if I'm going to keep picking it up - the typical Wolverine "who am I?" story is so, so tired.

[EyesWideOpen]

Issue 1 of "Wolverine MAX" was pretty ho-hum.

A lot of totally unnecessary swearing, which seemed to be there simply to reinforce the idea that this is a MAX title (for adults!).

Opening the comic with Wolverine vs. a shark was pretty fun, but it's going to have to do something new and fresh in the next few issues if I'm going to keep picking it up - the typical Wolverine "who am I?" story is so, so tired.

It's the reason why I dropped Punisher MAX.

[Ezee E]

MAX seemed like it needs the extreeemmmeeee guitar guy under the issue number.

[megladon8]

It's the reason why I dropped Punisher MAX.


Post-Ennis, I hope?

[EyesWideOpen]

Post-Ennis, I hope?

Whoops I meant Fury MAX.

[Sven]

Makes sense that Johnny Nemo was birthed from the brains of an epileptic and paranoid schizophrenic.

[number8]

Holy shit, DC just announced a new Before Watchmen book about DOLLAR BILL. REALLY? Fucking Dollar Bill? This shit is not going to end anytime soon, is it? We're gonna see like a Seymour story soon.

[Sven]

I aint gonna complain about 20+ new pages of comic art by Steve Rude. At least they're continuing to hire talented people.

*still hasn't read a single BW issue, for the record. Dunno if I will.

[Sven]

Does anyone else get really sad when someone disses Chris Bachalo? It happens all too frequently. Luckily his supporters are vocal and plenty.

[megladon8]

"Colder" #1 next week!

Anyone else checking out this title?

[Ezee E]

"Colder" #1 next week!

Anyone else checking out this title?
Tell me more. I know nothing of it.