Sangre, cuchillos, y tetas --- Horror Film Discussion

[Bosco B Thug]

It starts with Jeff Goldblum, as an awkward creepy looking guy, trying to chat up Geena Davis at a party. She's not interested and ditches him, but Goldblum follows her through the party and confidently convinces her that he's got something she has to see and invites her to his lab. Inexplicably, she agrees. They get on her car and he starts shaking. She asks if he's okay and he asures her that he is, instructing her to keep going. They get to a dark, creepy and abandoned-looking warehouse. Goldblum gets out of the car heaving. Geena Davis looks unsure and asks, "This is it?" Goldblum then smiles and assures her that the inside is much better. They go inside to his lab, he tells her to go in first, then shuts the sliding gate behind him. Goldblum then hops on a piano and starts playing creepy music. Geena Davis looks even more unsure and says it's a mistake and she should leave. Goldblum smiles and says she's seen his work, so if she leaves, he'll have to kill her. Davis says she hasn't seen anything, to which Goldblum points out the telepods, then asks her if she has anything personal on her. She takes off her stocking, with Goldblum leering at this.

It's only after at this point that we realize he's actually showing her a teleporter. Oh. Right. I remember all that.

Well, definitely he's setting up an in-all-respects indecipherable sexual entanglement. And it definitely riffs on their inexplicable coercion tactics. So yeah, you can say it begins like Manchurian Candidate for serial rapists.

[MacGuffin]

Rob Zombie's Halloween works very well. He's a major talent. The entire film is at once sad and disturbing; the violence very difficult to watch and quite brutal. The original had a feeling of dread throughout with Myers constantly lurking in the background. While an early scene with Myers watching the teens from a distance seems almost like a homage to the original, this movie is less like that and takes a more in-your-face approach with its grittiness and violence. It's suspenseful because Zombie's protagonists are ultra-realistic and likable. I was rooting for all of the teenagers and was genuinely disturbed when he broke into the parent's house.

The film is plagued by a sense of hopelessness: hopeless in that Myers is portrayed as doomed from the start. People will accuse Zombie of sympathizing with him, but I think Zombie sees the tragedy of someone like Michael Myers being born into a bad environment and basically born a serial killer, surrounded by hate and wrong rather than love and peace. I found some of the early exposition scenes at times superfluous, but that may have been because I saw the director's cut. The actors are great; the girl who played Laurie is spot-on and McDowell is as good as expected. Looking forward to the sequel.

[Chac Mool]

I also liked The Ruins. Effective little gore film.

Yeah, that was pretty good.

[Bosco B Thug]

Rob Zombie's Halloween works very well. He's a major talent. The entire film is at once sad and disturbing; the violence very difficult to watch and quite brutal. The original had a feeling of dread throughout with Myers constantly lurking in the background. While an early scene with Myers watching the teens from a distance seems almost like a homage to the original, this movie is less like that and takes a more in-your-face approach with its grittiness and violence. It's suspenseful because Zombie's protagonists are ultra-realistic and likable. I was rooting for all of the teenagers and was genuinely disturbed when he broke into the parent's house.

The film is plagued by a sense of hopelessness: hopeless in that Myers is portrayed as doomed from the start. People will accuse Zombie of sympathizing with him, but I think Zombie sees the tragedy of someone like Michael Myers being born into a bad environment and basically born a serial killer, surrounded by hate and wrong rather than love and peace. I found some of the early exposition scenes at times superfluous, but that may have been because I saw the director's cut. The actors are great; the girl who played Laurie is spot-on and McDowell is as good as expected. Looking forward to the sequel. Props for not making a comment about how the 2nd half is a decline from the 1st half. Even if you may be thinking it. :)

[Yxklyx]

Yeah, Village of the Damned is not a good movie. Easily Carpenter's worst. Horrid horrid screenplay. It's good to finally see the film that inspired "The Bloodening" from The Simpsons, though, and there's nothing to despise the movie for. It's just plain silly, though, with little worthwhile aspects.

I always thought that Simpson's episode was based on the original Village of the Damned (1960) which is very good BTW.

[Bosco B Thug]

I always thought that Simpson's episode was based on the original Village of the Damned (1960) which is very good BTW. Oh, right. I've seen it once, long ago. I've always told myself there isn't enough self-mutilation in that one to make the direct comparison, but I simply may be just not remembering. I mean, there has to be some, huh?

[Grouchy]

It's crazy, but I forgot to mention here that I watched Return of the Living Dead I and III in Tuesdays of Horror. Great films - I'm already in love with this saga. The first movie is a great spoof with genuinely oddball characters and dialogue. The third part, while a little more on the silly side, earns a lot of points for developing a crazy romantic story. And Julie Walker is one of the coolest-looking characters ever. If there is an action figure of her, I want it now:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:gn3nVtLZ4u1UHM:ht tp://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6973/449auzpfq3.jpg&t=1

[Dukefrukem]

It's crazy, but I forgot to mention here that I watched Return of the Living Dead I and III in Tuesdays of Horror. Great films - I'm already in love with this saga. The first movie is a great spoof with genuinely oddball characters and dialogue. The third part, while a little more on the silly side, earns a lot of points for developing a crazy romantic story. And Julie Walker is one of the coolest-looking characters ever. If there is an action figure of her, I want it now:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:gn3nVtLZ4u1UHM:ht tp://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6973/449auzpfq3.jpg&t=1

I've never seen 3. I need to

Speaking of zombies, I blind bought Romero's new flick. :|

[Grouchy]

I blind bought Romero's new flick. :|
My condolences.

[MadMan]

Speaking of deformed children and horror movies, has anyone seen Larry Cohen's It's Alive?Yep. Damn good movie.

Also Survival of the Dead was meant to be a comedy, with satire thrown in. Its Romero's funniest movie since his masterpiece Dawn of the Dead.

I liked the Halloween remake, but I was rather mixed about the sequel. Perhaps I'll give another chance. The screen shots Rowland posted are great-the dream/hallucination sequences are beyond stunning. Also, I prefer the DC's ending, if only because it fullfills Zombie's promise not to make another Halloween movie. Even though of course there is going to be another one, sadly. I'd like it if they stopped with H2.

[D_Davis]

I've never seen 3. I need to


It's a little slow, but the finale is fantastic. Unfortunately, it's only available in the R-rated version on DVD. One of the few VHS tapes I've held onto.

Also, Melinda Clarke looks really good naked.

[MadMan]

Davis why do you like Jason Goes to Hell? I thought that one was a bad movie, even worse than the remake or Part III.

[D_Davis]

Davis why do you like Jason Goes to Hell?

Because it's fun, and the unrated version has some cool gore. I also like the premise; yes, it was totally ripped off from The Hidden, but I thought they did a good job with it.

I also like Kane Hodder's Jason in it. He really nails the performance with the head-tilts and body language. Plus, it gave rise to Freddy Vs. Jason, which is absolutely brilliant.

[MadMan]

I liked the gore, but I wasn't too crazy about the premise, which I felt was kind of lame. Kane Hodder though was great as Jason-I wouldn't disagree about that-and I will hopefully get to Jason X and FVJ soon. Even though JGTH wasn't a good movie, at least it had Duke, who was one of the best and coolest characters in the series.

[D_Davis]

I can watch Jason Goes to Hell, Jason X, and FVJ just about anytime. Love all three. I like these three because they don't even try to make them horror; they're just cheesy action flicks with a monster villain. Too bad they didn't get Hodder for FVJ, but it makes sense given the direction Yu wanted to take.

[Grouchy]

It's a little slow, but the finale is fantastic. Unfortunately, it's only available in the R-rated version on DVD. One of the few VHS tapes I've held onto.

Also, Melinda Clarke looks really good naked.
I've been trying to find out which version I saw, and I think I saw the uncut. At least all the close-ups of Melinda altering her looks are there, and it had plenty of gore. It was a DVD.

[D_Davis]

I've been trying to find out which version I saw, and I think I saw the uncut. At least all the close-ups of Melinda altering her looks are there, and it had plenty of gore. It was a DVD.

Maybe there is a non-US, unrated version?

[Dukefrukem]

It's a little slow, but the finale is fantastic. Unfortunately, it's only available in the R-rated version on DVD. One of the few VHS tapes I've held onto.

Also, Melinda Clarke looks really good naked.

It looks like over-the-top camp though. A lot more camp than the first two.

[D_Davis]

It looks like over-the-top camp though. A lot more camp than the first two.

You can't get any more campy than Return of the Living Dead. If anything, Part III is actually a bit more "serious," or at least more intentionally darker.

[Grouchy]

Maybe there is a non-US, unrated version?
IMDb mentions a UK DVD, but I can't find other evidence of it.

[Rowland]

Tom Holland's Child's Play holds up pretty well, more so than his other, more cultish 80's classic Fright Night at any rate. The child actor has a scene where he literally weeps in terror that is startlingly effective.

[Bosco B Thug]

Hellraiser (Barker 87) * Did you hate it so?

Watched it also. Complete coincidence, got it from Netflix way back Tuesday. I needed something to alleviate the funk the Nightmare on Elm Street flicks were leaving me in, so I used it as a literal chaser for the 6th 'Nightmare' flick.

And I must say it hit the spot. A ripping horror yarn that was actually involving. It's not a great movie... the story is hogwash, but it makes how much Barker is able to sell you all the more impressive. Barker isn't the most sophisticated filmmaker, but he's no slouch either, and the film is consistently stylish and perceptive to its characters. He's way overripe sometimes (or many times), but it's in a sincerely arty way - he has a good sense of what is good, anti-lazy filmmaking, but, hand in hand, he has a very bad sense of what is bad filmmaking, so there is a lot of cheese in Hellraiser. Anyway, it was much needed genre fun respite, and I can see why it has such a following. The Cenobites are great fiends.

Nightmare 6 wasn't so bad, though. Didn't strike me as any better or any worse than the previous two entries. It definitely has a better sense of fun and spunk, in spite of all the alleged besotting it commits to the 'Nightmare' franchise. Finally Englund gets to act/ham like he's always wanted to as Freddy, because I was wondering when that was going to happen.

[MadMan]

Just out of curiosity, which one had Freddy dressed as a surgeon?

Hellraiser was on Mystery Channel (of all places) one night, and I watched some of it. 25 minutes in, I lost interest. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

[Bosco B Thug]

Just out of curiosity, which one had Freddy dressed as a surgeon? Ummm The Dream Child. #5. I think... nightmare birth scene = Freddy in surgeon outfit.


Hellraiser was on Mystery Channel (of all places) one night, and I watched some of it. 25 minutes in, I lost interest. Maybe I'll give it another shot. Yeah, I could see it losing someone on TV. It's kind of kitchen sinky for an 80s horror movie. It gets going, though, if mostly thanks to cool effects work.

[soitgoes...]

Did you hate it so?

Watched it also. Complete coincidence, got it from Netflix way back Tuesday. I needed something to alleviate the funk the Nightmare on Elm Street flicks were leaving me in, so I used it as a literal chaser for the 6th 'Nightmare' flick.

And I must say it hit the spot. A ripping horror yarn that was actually involving. It's not a great movie... the story is hogwash, but it makes how much Barker is able to sell you all the more impressive. Barker isn't the most sophisticated filmmaker, but he's no slouch either, and the film is consistently stylish and perceptive to its characters. He's way overripe sometimes (or many times), but it's in a sincerely arty way - he has a good sense of what is good, anti-lazy filmmaking, but, hand in hand, he has a very bad sense of what is bad filmmaking, so there is a lot of cheese in Hellraiser. Anyway, it was much needed genre fun respite, and I can see why it has such a following. The Cenobites are great fiends.
It was awful. Bad story, bad acting, not scary. You name it. The Cenobites might be great fiends, but they are in the film for like 5 minutes. They take care of the uncle to help the daughter, and then they themselves are vanquished easy enough. Truly some beings to be feared.

[Rowland]

I'm a huge Hellraiser fan, haven't seen it in years however. I just love how delightfully perverse and palpable is its atmosphere of decay and rot, moral and otherwise. Its sensiblities are unorthodox as mainstream 80's horror films are concerned, both more literate and cinematic, and its provocative imagery still packs a punch despite what are some clear budget constraints. Croce of Cinepassion.org describes it as a De Sadean satire, a dead-on prism through which to approach the material.

The first sequel is spotty but worthwhile as well.

[Bosco B Thug]

It was awful. Bad story, bad acting, not scary. You name it. The Cenobites might be great fiends, but they are in the film for like 5 minutes. They take care of the uncle to help the daughter, and then they themselves are vanquished easy enough. Truly some beings to be feared. That was an annoying logical lapse, the fact that they only appeared when most convenient for the daughter. I was waiting for them to show up when Frank is pretending to be the dad, and for the daughter to go shit-scared in anticipatory fear of the Cenobites TEARING her SOUL APART for making such a wishy-washy bargain with them.

As for their vanquishing, I don't know why but the box puzzle just works. It just does in a way that makes Transformers seem more incompetent than it already is.


I'm a huge Hellraiser fan, haven't seen it in years however. I just love how delightfully perverse and palpable is its atmosphere of decay and rot, moral and otherwise. Its sensiblities are unorthodox as mainstream 80's horror films are concerned, both more literate and cinematic, and its provocative imagery still packs a punch despite what are some clear budget constraints. Croce of Cinepassion.org describes it as a De Sadean satire, a dead-on prism through which to approach the material. Yeah, the film embraces its super-black, super-S&M macabre sleaziness. Barker has a good sense of his story, if nothing else. He's Clive Barker!

[Dukefrukem]

My condolences.

Yup. You were right. :cry:

[Rowland]

Bah, Survival of the Dead is underrated.

[Rowland]

So I'm going to watch the Friday the 13th series. Why? I dunno, feels like something that has been a long time coming as a horror devotee. And hey, I rather enjoyed the much-maligned fifth film, which is the only one I've seen curiously enough.

Ratings?

[Scar]

So I'm going to watch the Friday the 13th series. Why? I dunno, feels like something that has been a long time coming as a horror devotee. And hey, I rather enjoyed the much-maligned fifth film, which is the only one I've seen curiously enough.

Ratings?

I haven't watched the fifth one myself, but I have it queued up on streaming. I also hear there is a mighty fine rack in that one.

[Dukefrukem]

1. Friday the 13th (1980) 7/10
2. Friday the 13th Part 2 7.5/10
3. Friday the 13th Part III 4/10
4. Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter 3/10
5. Friday the 13th Part V: A New Beginning 2/10
6. Friday the 13th Part VI: Jason Lives 7.9/10
7. Friday the 13th Part VII: The New Blood 8/10 (my favorite; the one where you see Jason's face)
8. Friday the 13th Part VIII: Jason Takes Manhattan 7/10
9. Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday 6/10
10. Jason X -1/10
11. Freddy vs. Jason 4/10
12. Friday the 13th (2009) 1/10

[Dukefrukem]

I haven't watched the fifth one myself, but I have it queued up on streaming. I also hear there is a mighty fine rack in that one.

There is. And the fifth one is the worst in the series.

[D_Davis]

FVJ is a 10/10 film if one ever existed.

Best of the series by far.

I'd rate the ones I've seen in this order:

FVJ
Jason Goes to Hell
Jason X
IV
III
II
I
VII
VIII

[Scar]

There is. And the fifth one is the worst in the series.

FYI, you see Jason's face in part II and the Final Chapter

[Bosco B Thug]

I have not seen Jason Goes to Hell or Jason X yet. Space is boring.

My pretty guessy ranking:

1 > FVJ > 5 > 4 > 3 > 2 > 6 > 7 > 8

[MacGuffin]

Friday the 13th (Cunningham, 1980) **½

So after a lukewarm start, how much longer will you go?

[Rowland]

1 > FVJ > 5 > 4 > 3 > 2 > 6 > 7 > 8Cool, well at least I don't feel so bad about rather liking the original with my first viewing and my relatively fond memories of the fifth, given that they're often cited by fans as two of the lesser entries in the series.

[Scar]

Yep, those were some nice ta ta's.

[Dukefrukem]

Why so much hate in 7? I love the telekinesis aspect.

[Bosco B Thug]

Cool, well at least I don't feel so bad about rather liking the original with my first viewing and my relatively fond memories of the fifth, given that they're often cited by fans as two of the lesser entries in the series.
I mean, as the original, it's simply the most pure and unfiltered in atmosphere and vision. And yeah, I'm not sure why 5 is so hated, I remember it being one of the more exciting ones.


Why so much hate in 7? I love the telekinesis aspect. It's lower in my rankings, but 8's the only one I dislike.

[Dukefrukem]

I mean, as the original, it's simply the most pure and unfiltered in atmosphere and vision. And yeah, I'm not sure why 5 is so hated, I remember it being one of the more exciting ones.

It's lower in my rankings, but 8's the only one I dislike.

Manhattan isn't good, but at least they make a joke about it. 4 and 5 are boring and completely uneventful.

[megladon8]

Friday the 13th - 5
Friday the 13th Part 2 - 5.5
Part 3 - 4
Part 4 - 7
Part 5 - 3.5
Part 6 - 6
Part 7 - 4.5
Part 8 - 4
Jason X - 5
Freddy vs. Jason - 6.5

The only one I haven't seen is Jason Goes to Hell.

Freddy vs. Jason is certainly a slam-bangin' fun time, but I can't be nearly enthusiastic about it as others.

[megladon8]

Manhattan isn't good, but at least they make a joke about it. 4 and 5 are boring and completely uneventful.


No way. 4 is the best one by far.

[Scar]

I rather enjoy seven, but eight is a gigantic pile of shit.

[Dukefrukem]

LOL we are all over the board here.

[MadMan]

Sure I'll join in the fun (I haven't seen Jason X or FVJ yet, though):

Friday the 13th(1980)-80
Friday the 13th Part II(1981)-82
Friday the 13th Part III(1982)-64
Friday the 13th Part IV: The Final Chapter(1984)-84
Friday the 13th Part V: A New Beginning(1985)-71
Friday the 13th Part VI: Jason Lives(1986)-85
Friday the 13th Part VII: The New Blood(1988)-76
Friday the 13th Part VIII: Jason Takes Manhattan(1989)-68
Jason Goes to Hell(1993)-45
Friday the 13th(2009)-63

I suppose I'm a fan of the series. Bare in mind that I rated the movies against slasher film standards. If I actually graded the series based on "Good" movie criteria, only II, Final Chapter, and Jason Lives would get good grades. Although I guess the first movie is decent/solid enough. VII and VIII are good fun, even if they have clear limitations and are very campy. I even enjoyed Jason Goes to Hell, despite my disliking it.

[Rowland]

So after a lukewarm start, how much longer will you go?Well, as this range of highly divergent ratings attests to, one can't dismiss a series of films over any individual entry nor assume that they only continue to diminish in quality. And my **½ rating is a more a solid "like" than lukewarm, which for me is a dip into the negative end of the scale.

[MacGuffin]

Well, as this range of highly divergent ratings attests to, one can't dismiss a series of films over any individual entry nor assume that they only continue to diminish in quality. And my **½ rating is a more a solid "like" than lukewarm, which for me is a dip into the negative end of the scale.

A **1/2 is a solid like for me as well, but in comparison to ***1/2 and even ***, it's lukewarm as those are much more highly recommended film tiers.

[Irish]

No way. 4 is the best one by far.
^ This. It's the only one with anything approaching a story, or at least a story that's not completely snooze inducing.

Every other crazy in this thread, talking these movies: We can talk kills and humor if you want, but c'mon. At some point the F13 movies become porn with red corn syrup in the money shots -- you're fast fowarding through the bullshit dialogue to get to the fun parts.

I don't consider Freddy vs Jason party of the F13 series (it always seemed more like a Freddy thing). But if I did, it would be at the top.

Giving it 4/10, Duke, is some sort of crime.

[Dukefrukem]

If they had cut out the Jay and Silent Bob rip off scene and that stupid dream worm thing... I could enjoy it a lot more. The kill at the very beginning is totally awesome though.

[D_Davis]

Ronny Yu's direction alone elevates well past the 4/10 mark. The final 20 minutes are absolutely beautiful - on par with Yu's work in Bride With White Hair. Every time I watch FVJ, I'm stunned by how great it looks and feels. Yu should work his magic more in Hollwood - like he did here and with Bride of Chucky. Probably the only HK director who really knows how to work in the west.

[Irish]

Ronny Yu's direction alone elevates well past the 4/10 mark. The final 20 minutes are absolutely beautiful - on par with Yu's work in Bride With White Hair. Every time I watch FVJ, I'm stunned by how great it looks and feels. Yu should work his magic more in Hollwood - like he did here and with Bride of Chucky. Probably the only HK director who really knows how to work in the west.

EXACTLY.

(I ran out of rep again, so I owe you.)

[D_Davis]

I also think the story is really creative - the writers did a fantastic job of merging the two worlds, which are really quite different. They also did a brilliant job of utilizing the pathos of the two villains - Freddy the eternal predator, and Jason who was initially the victim - and the elements of their birth: water for Jason (he was drowned), and Fire for Freddy (burned alive). Freddy was always evil; he was a child molester. Jason was an innocent child when he first died. Jason wants revenge for the every-child. The story plays off of this motif really well.

It's the best story of both series, the best looking of both series, and has the best direction of both.

[Rowland]

Every other crazy in this thread, talking these movies: We can talk kills and humor if you want, but c'mon. At some point the F13 movies become porn with red corn syrup in the money shots -- you're fast fowarding through the bullshit dialogue to get to the fun parts. I've only seen two of these movies so far, but I'd disagree. They aren't even particularly good gore porn, if that's what you're looking for. If the kills were all there was to appreciate, they'd be terrible.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I also think the story is really creative - the writers did a fantastic job of merging the two worlds, which are really quite different. They also did a brilliant job of utilizing the pathos of the two villains - Freddy the eternal predator, and Jason who was initially the victim - and the elements of their birth: water for Jason (he was drowned), and Fire for Freddy (burned alive). Freddy was always evil; he was a child molester. Jason was an innocent child when he first died. Jason wants revenge for the every-child. The story plays off of this motif really well.

It's the best story of both series, the best looking of both series, and has the best direction of both.

The flick's really cool from a stylistic and conceptual standpoint, but those teenagers just bore me to frakking tears. If the movie were fifteen or twenty minutes shorter and focused more on the marquee names, I'd feel no shame in enjoying it; instead, it's a very guilty pleasure.

Also, I saw all those Friday the 13th flicks on Netflix Instant, and I'm wondering if now's finally the time to break down and watch 'em. I saw the first one, bits of Manhattan, Jason X, and FvJ, and none of them really encouraged me to complete Jason's epic saga.

[Irish]

I've only seen two of these movies so far, but I'd disagree. They aren't even particularly good gore porn, if that's what you're looking for. If the kills were all there was to appreciate, they'd be terrible.

To a degree I think you have to consider the time, in a pre-Saw kind of way.

The original F13 (which is a junk movie) set a new bar in terms of effects and gore (done by whatshisname, not Winston the other guy. Savini.)

[Rowland]

The original F13 (which is a junk movie) set a new bar in terms of effects and gore (done by whatshisname, not Winston the other guy. Savini.)I don't think it's a junk movie though. Elements of it are junky, but some of it holds up as almost refined compared to most of the 80's slasher ilk released in the wake of Halloween (including the same year's Prom Night and Terror Train, both far less competent), let alone a great deal of our glossy modern horror. And as for the effects and gore setting a new bar, I disagree there as well. That year alone saw the release of Fulci's incomparably more graphic City of the Living Dead, as just one example.

[Rowland]

Also, I saw all those Friday the 13th flicks on Netflix Instant, and I'm wondering if now's finally the time to break down and watch 'em. I saw the first one, bits of Manhattan, Jason X, and FvJ, and none of them really encouraged me to complete Jason's epic saga.That's where I'm watching them. The original, despite its reputation as just another shamelessly exploitative slasher, holds up surprisingly well as a mood piece, conveying the milieus of the adjoining small town and the camp itself with convincingly isolated, lazy rural rhythms, with many pregnant silences filled only by diegetic sounds and minimalist cinematography amplifying the tension before some effectively mounted reveals. The climax, for all its (tee-hee) campy qualities, has an almost elemental power to it, between the reveal of the killer as what could be anyone's mother pushed to obvious insanity through to the final moments, equal parts Carrie and Deliverance scored to lush piano-and-synth-strings evoking Pino Donaggio, understanding the lake as a symbol of both the sins past reflecting the dark present and as an omen of the muddy waters ahead.

The sequel, barring the first several minutes ludicrously comprised of clips from the first film, is another solid example of the slasher, equipped with a more tangible sense of humor about itself and a genuinely terrific climactic chase set piece.

[MadMan]

Glad to see someone else liking the first two Jason movies. Although from what I hear Part II rips off Twitch of the Death Nerve. I'll have to see that one. Seems to me that people forget that Bava gave us some really good slasher movies-Blood and Black Lace is excellent.

Oh and Jason Lives is the creators' wisely creating a horror spoof of the series. Gotta love Zombie Jason, even though the rest of the movies afterwards weren't as good as Part 6.

[Rowland]

Hmm, I'm a little baffled by F13: The Final Chapter's reputation. It pretty much just sucks, mediocre even by exploitation standards. This entry probably looks better than the previous films in terms of production value, but Zito can't build suspense for shit, and for every stylish kill (lightning-shadow, projection porno, and slow-mo toss-through-the-window kills) there are several consisting merely of Jason sneaking up behind someone and thrusting a machete through them with little in the way of sustained build-up. The comparatively derided third film is more entertaining as camp, and better directed by Miner in terms of building set pieces. The opening sequences establishing our latest batch of meat puppets are the most tedious and irritating yet, and the "final girl" set piece is uninspired. The ending is an interesting development, but it isn't really sufficiently fleshed out, though I appreciate that it avoids another forced final-dream-sequence jump-shock and justified a twist on the material with A New Beginning.

[D_Davis]

Love for the Final Chapter can be summed up by one scene:

3_f0ELRcgCo

[Bosco B Thug]

Hmm, I'm a little baffled by F13: The Final Chapter's reputation. It's the goriest so far, right?

I imagine it's the slickest without 1 and 2's grunginess, too.


Love for the Final Chapter can be summed up by one scene:

3_f0ELRcgCo Novelty factor, too. Glover and puberty-minded Cory Feldman.

[Rowland]

It's the goriest so far, right?*shrug* I guess, but there's nothing particularly memorable here.


I imagine it's the slickest without 1 and 2's grunginess, too.Ehh maybe (still looks pretty flat if you ask me), but as I noted, it doesn't know how to direct a suspense sequence for shit. Even the first three movies, for all their flaws, were varying degrees of competent at this basic component.

[Scar]

I wasn't overly thrilled with the Final Chapter.

I made it about halfway through #5, and shut it off. Just wasn't in an 80's slasher flick mood.

#6 is hilarious, pity it was neutered by the MPAA, and I don't believe the original gore footage is to be found.

[MadMan]

I wasn't overly thrilled with the Final Chapter.

I made it about halfway through #5, and shut it off. Just wasn't in an 80's slasher flick mood.

#6 is hilarious, pity it was neutered by the MPAA, and I don't believe the original gore footage is to be found.So it along with Part 7 was butchered by the MPAA? Lame. Freakin' facists.

Part 4 is great fun, really. There's not much more to it, as its not scary, as Bosco noted it doesn't have Part 1 and 2's more raw, less polished feel, and it just has plenty of nudity and violence. The ending is great, sure, but as good as Part 4 is I have no idea why anyone would think its better than Part 6.

Rowland I'm certain that you're going to like Part 5 as much as I did. Maybe even more. Or not.

[Rowland]

Rowland I'm certain that you're going to like Part 5 as much as I did. Maybe even more. Or not.Oh I've seen Part V, and I actually did like it. We'll see if it holds up, been awhile.

[Grouchy]

I had a blast watching Maniac Cop. I'm beginning to really like this Larry -Cohen guy - I'd only seen Q before. A big help here is the cast, made almost entirely of cult movie names - Tom Atkins, Bruce Campbell, Robert Z'Dar and Richard Roundtree shine in a film that aligns itself as Horror but most of the time works better as a crime thriller. Cohen's ear for dialogue is amazing. A lot of the story is completely preposterous (specially the Maniac Cop's secret origin which doesn't make a lick of sense) but the scenes are so well written that you forget about realism or plausibility. At some point I'll watch the sequels.

Oh, and I sincerely hope this never gets remade.

[MadMan]

Oh I've seen Part V, and I actually did like it. We'll see if it holds up, been awhile.Ah. Good. I think it will.

The only Larry Cohen I've seen is Black Caesar, Hell Up In Harlem, and Its Alive. Plus I like his screenplay for Phone Booth, even if its full of holes and has some issues. He's a good director for the most part-I want to see more of his work.

[Grouchy]

Ah. Good. I think it will.

The only Larry Cohen I've seen is Black Caesar, Hell Up In Harlem, and Its Alive. Plus I like his screenplay for Phone Booth, even if its full of holes and has some issues. He's a good director for the most part-I want to see more of his work.
He didn't direct Maniac Cop, though - William Lustig did. He wrote the screenplay.

[number8]

I generally like Larry Cohen, but he sued Alan Moore for no reason so fuck him.

[Grouchy]

I generally like Larry Cohen, but he sued Alan Moore for no reason so fuck him.
Well, technically, he sued Fox, right? He argued that the company had used Moore's comic as a smokescreen to use his movie idea without crediting him.

[number8]

I was mostly joking. I actually do believe that Fox stole Cohen's script and used League of Extraordinary Gentlemen to cover it up, because the finished movie resembled Cohen's script far more than it did Moore's comic.

But Cohen himself roped Moore into the trial, claiming that DC told Moore to write LoEG based on his script. Moore had to be dragged into court and testify and submit proof that LoEG was an original idea of his.

[Grouchy]

Interesting to know. I think I'll Google the script and read it.

[megladon8]

So...like...Rob Zombie's Halloween 2 was actually kind of good. A large improvement over the first one, and while it certainly has some serious flaws, it was, well, pretty good.

Scout Taylor Compton is absolutely horrible and rivals Sheri Moon Zombie in annoyance levels, and Rob Zombie really needs to let someone else write for him, at least when it comes to dialogue.

I see Zombie as being quite a strong visual director, and improving with each movie. There are some fantastic images here.

Like I said, nowhere near flawless. Loomis' complete 180 from the first movie really needed a bit more explanation, and was laid on a little thick.

But yeah...I liked it.

[Grouchy]

Altered States is a very frustrating movie. Entertaining enough that the fact that it isn't actually very good is a pity. It stars William Hurt as a doctor obsessed with doing drug experimentation and isolation in a water tank. It's a juicy role, but most of the dialogue in the movie is so risible and overwrought that Hurt's best efforts still don't make it a real character. The movie goes back and forth in a number of unrelated and very weird directions. There are a couple of absolutely great scenes, and Ken Russell's visuals are striking, but the script overstays its welcome and by the end I frankly didn't care. In fact, the very ending is bullshit and a cop-out.

[Dukefrukem]

9e6lP7gksV0

[Rowland]

Jason Lives almost entirely sheds the gonzo exploitation vibe of the Friday the 13th series heretofore in favor of self-satisfied pomo humor that alternates between vaguely amusing and more-often noxiously smarmy; a slicker aesthetic that, while pleasingly atmospheric at times, lacks the authentic grit of the previous entries and the genuine suspense chops of the better ones; a dismissal of what made the previous two films, flawed as they were, at least somewhat interesting, sanitizing the Tommy Jarvis character into complete inconsequentiality; and an almost complete dearth of gore, sex, and nudity. It's not all bad mind you, but so far it's easily my least favorite F13.

[MadMan]

Halloween II is mediocre. Altered States is a rather disturbing and well made sci-fi/horror movie, although I agree that the ending is a cop-out-its one of the few bad things about it. I love that William Hurt ended up appearing in a movie that goes from trippy nightmare out of body experiences to a full blown monster/body mutation film. Jason Lives is a fun, gory, parody of the series and is easily the best film in the series. Its the only one where the creators acknowledge just how dumb the series really is, and besides in the first act of the movie they pay homage to the old school Hammer gothic horror movies. After all, Jason is being brought back from the dead and becoming a zombie, and if you think about it he's really been dead since Part III. I really wish they had brought back Corey Feldmen, or had the guy from Part V play Tommy, though-the actor the part in Jason Lives is terrible.

[megladon8]

I thought the beginning sequence to "Nights in White Satin" in Halloween 2 was one of the most memorable, interesting horror film sequences I've seen in a few years.

[MadMan]

I thought the beginning sequence to "Nights in White Satin" in Halloween 2 was one of the most memorable, interesting horror film sequences I've seen in a few years.That entire sequence was fantastic, and extremely creepy. Plus you can't go wrong with featuring a Moody Blues song in a movie-I've slowly become a fan of them over the past year and a half.

[megladon8]

That entire sequence was fantastic, and extremely creepy. Plus you can't go wrong with featuring a Moody Blues song in a movie-I've slowly become a fan of them over the past year and a half.


They're a great band, and had some fantastic album covers.


I was talking to Jen about this earlier - there is this visceral quality to Zombie's films that is pretty much unmatched.

Even though it's "just" stabbings and beatings for the most part, I found the violence in his Halloween movies to be more brutal, shocking and cringe-worthy than most anything in the "torture porn" films like Hostel.

The stabbing of the black nurse at the beginning of Halloween 2 was brutal stuff. And the body being stabbed isn't really even shown, we just see Michael brutally plunging the knife over and over, her actually body obscured by the desk.

[D_Davis]

The violence in Zombie's Halloween is brutal and and unflinching. His Michael is such an imposing figure - far more frightening than the original. Zombie's film actually scared me because I believed that his Michael was actually capable of the brutality he employs. It was a hard film for me to watch, and even though I thought it was pretty brilliant (I like it more than the original), I never want to see it again, and on the other hand I can throw on the original for a fun night of horror. It just doesn't have the same impact on me as Zombie's vision.

[megladon8]

Eh, I can't go that far in my enjoyment of it, D. The original Halloween was much more competently written and all the better for it.

Zombie really needs to accept that he's just not a very good writer. And he needs to stop casting his wife. She's bloody awful.

I also stand by my original assessment that the regular every-day looking Michael Myers was much more frightening than The Hulk with a mask.

But I see what you mean and agree to an extent. The brutality Zombie's Michael Myers was capable of was truly frightening.

Like I said, I found the brutal beatings in that film much more disturbing than anything in Hostel.

[D_Davis]

I think Zombie's film is much better written, and far more interesting. The biopic portion is incredibly effective, and his portrayal of Michael is strong. But I've never been a huge fan of the original, while I do respect it for its post-Vietnam era genre conventions.

[MacGuffin]

Zombie really needs to accept that he's just not a very good writer. And he needs to stop casting his wife. She's bloody awful.

She's not that bad.

[D_Davis]

She's not that bad.

I've never had a problem with her. Compared to the acting in most of the '80s horror I enjoy, she's far better.

[MacGuffin]

I've never had a problem with her. Compared to the acting in most of the '80s horror I enjoy, she's far better.

Plus, she's a total babe.

[D_Davis]

She's a better actress than Michelle Rodriguez and Mila Jovovich combined.

[MacGuffin]

She's a better actress than Michelle Rodriguez and Mila Jovovich combined.

Yeah, I really have no problem with her acting. I don't understand why people hate her so much.

[megladon8]

I hate her because she's a terrible actress with absolutely no ability to emote realistically. And her shrill voice is like nails on a chalkboard.

[megladon8]

She's a better actress than Michelle Rodriguez and Mila Jovovich combined.


You say that like it's an admirable feat.

[D_Davis]

You say that like it's an admirable feat.

I always try to look for a positive.

[megladon8]

But really, defending (or even more, liking) Sheri Moon Zombie is nigh incomprehensible to me.

I have seen absolutely no evidence of her being a worthwhile actress. Even her scenes in Halloween 2 where she's required to employ a blank, deer-caught-in-the-headlights stare come across as horribly phony.

She's just bad.

So was Scout Taylor Compton. And the dialogue between her and Danielle Harris where every second word is "fuck" was really bad.

[Rowland]

She's a better actress than Michelle Rodriguez and Mila Jovovich combined.Ha, no way. She's pretty solid though, her work in the Halloween remake being far more convincingly naturalistic than most people imagined she was capable of after Zombie's first two pictures.

[Grouchy]

I don't have a problem with Sheri Moon's acting either - certainly not that bad of an actress. Incredible eye candy, too.

I feel a peculiar pain when I read someone stating that Zombie's Halloween can in any way be better than the original. It's a pain from inside the veins, like shooting polluted heroin.

[MacGuffin]

I don't have a problem with Sheri Moon's acting either - certainly not that bad of an actress. Incredible eye candy, too.

I feel a peculiar pain when I read someone stating that Zombie's Halloween can in any way be better than the original. It's a pain from inside the veins, like shooting polluted heroin.

I don't think it's better than the original, but it does do certain things better.

[Grouchy]

I don't think it's better than the original, but it does do certain things better.
In all fairness, they can't be compared. One is a timeless classic which spawned an inmense sub-genre. The other is a homage to that timeless classic which expands on aspects of the story which are really irrelevant to the original.

[MacGuffin]

In all fairness, they can't be compared. One is a timeless classic which spawned an inmense sub-genre. The other is a homage to that timeless classic which expands on aspects of the story which are really irrelevant to the original.

To me, the concept of a "timeless classic" is irrelevant. I don't really care what's regarded as a horror classic by conventional standards, because everyone has their definition of what a classic is. I do think the original Halloween is an excellent film, if not quite a masterpiece. I think Zombie's Halloween takes a far different approach to Carpenter's "classic story" (a term I'm far more privy to since the concept of a serial killer roaming the streets on Halloween feels classical in and of itself), and in doing so, as I said does a lot of things better, especially in offering more context to Michael Myer's psych, which the original didn't seem terribly concerned about (Donald Pleasance's Dr. Loomis seemed to exist to function as more of a foil to Michael Myers, where Malcolm McDowell's felt more like a failed psychologist).

[D_Davis]

Timeless classic = slave to tradition

I never want the age of a film, book, or piece of music to be a factor in how much I love it.

Old or new, it's all the same.

[megladon8]

Timeless classic = slave to tradition

I never want the age of a film, book, or piece of music to be a factor in how much I love it.

Old or new, it's all the same.


Agreed.

But still, Carpenter's > Zombie's.

By so much it hurts.

[Grouchy]

To me, the concept of a "timeless classic" is irrelevant. I don't really care what's regarded as a horror classic by conventional standards, because everyone has their definition of what a classic is.
No, what I'm saying is not subjective. It's a classic not because of its age or conventions, but because, much like Psycho, it's a defining film in the history of cinema and its genre.


I think Zombie's Halloween takes a far different approach to Carpenter's "classic story" (a term I'm far more privy to since the concept of a serial killer roaming the streets on Halloween feels classical in and of itself), and in doing so, as I said does a lot of things better, especially in offering more context to Michael Myer's psych, which the original didn't seem terribly concerned about (Donald Pleasance's Dr. Loomis seemed to exist to function as more of a foil to Michael Myers, where Malcolm McDowell's felt more like a failed psychologist).
This is what I meant by "aspects of the story which are irrelevant to the original". In Carpenter's film, Mike Myers is treated not so much as a real person but as an almost supernatural threat - credited as "the Shape". But that's not a failing of the movie, it's simply a choice. Zombie instead makes a film about the birth of a serial killer.

It would be the equivalent of writing a novel that was like Moby Dick but from the point of view of the whale. You couldn't really argue which one is the better novel because the second one is entirely dependant on the fact that the first one is a literary classic.

[Bosco B Thug]

The House That Dripped Blood. Has anyone seen it? Biggest gip ending everrr. Although I get the feeling it's intentional and the film's laughing at me...

Also, I never said anything about Roger Corman's Tomb of Ligeia. It's silly and doesn't have much lasting effect, but I recommend it - it's surprisingly sophisticated, stylistically, and overall a bewitchingly offbeat film.

[Yxklyx]

I recently watched two 40s British films by John Brahm (who?): The Lodger and Hangover Square. Both star the very talented Laird Cregar (who?). They're about as Horrifying as the Val Lewtons but with better acting performances all around. The first is a Jack the Ripper story, the second about a man who has blackouts during which he commits violent acts. Both were very good - up there with the best of Val Lewton's, sporting interesting stories, dialogue and cinematography. Laird died before the second film was released - due to complications from his weight loss program in which he shed 100 pounds. Reminds me of an effeminate Orson Welles.

[Rowland]

I've seen The Lodger, thought it was pretty lousy to be honest. The cinematography looked good, and Cregar's performance was sufficiently amusing, if absurdly obvious, but that's about all I took from it. I wouldn't rank it anywhere near Lewton's work.

[Grouchy]

I saw The Lodger, thought it was pretty bad to be honest. Looked good, but that's about it.
The Hitchcock one? If it's that one, I remember liking it.

I like that Hitchcock uses a shot of footsteps and then a reaction of someone listening - the guy was already ahead of his time.

[megladon8]

Yeah, is this the silent Hitchcock film we're talking about?

Jen and I still have that one to watch.

[Rowland]

Guys, read the first line of Yxklxy's post.

[MadMan]

Curse of Frankenstein(1957) was excellent, and almost as good as the original 1931 Frankenstein. Cushing's Frankenstein was really dark, even creepy, really, and Lee's creature is beyond frightening, both to look at and through viewing his actions. Due to threat of legal action Fisher had to make a completely different version of the story, and I'm really glad he did-the movie is strong gothic horror, and helped to revive the genre in the late 1950s along with Horror of Dracula, which is also quite good. I'd like to see the rest of the Frankenstein and Dracula movies that Hammer Studios did-late 50s and 60s horror is really meaty and quite serious. No amount of camp, but not as mean and nasty as 70s horror really got, which makes sense considering some of the cinema restrictions hadn't been completely lifted by the studios.

Behind the Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon was goddamn creepy-its been a while since a slasher movie really got the best of me. The last one I can think of that I viewed were the first two Friday the 13th movies, but this one really was uber freaky. Comparisons to Man Bites Dog can be made, except that I think that Behind the Mask is slightly the better movie, and the more entertaining one. The character of Leslie is quite charismatic, so when he finally goes on his rampage its both disturbing and interesting: this is a guy who could have been many other things, but clearly choose to be the best damn serial killer he could possibly be.
Oh and the end credits are really amazing, honestly. Not only is it set to The Talking Heads' Psycho Killer (great use of the song, if a bit too obvious), but it has Vernon getting up off the table and going towards the morgue attendant. Whoa.
This October I'm diving more so into modern horror, so I'm really glad I finally got around to this one. Even though I'll admit there are some serious flaws that undermine the movie, which is why its merely very good, not great.

[Grouchy]

Comparisons to Man Bites Dog can be made, except that I think that Behind the Mask is slightly the better movie, and the more entertaining one.
I think I already said it earlier on the thread, but I have a really hard time seeing how someone can think this.

[Dukefrukem]

vy2nAOdBUlw

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9hi_4GT35yc

[MadMan]

I think I already said it earlier on the thread, but I have a really hard time seeing how someone can think this.Really? Its merely a loose comparison, but both movies have much in common. Only in Behind the Mask the camera crew doesn't end up helping the killer. Plus the use of mockmentary style film making. I didn't like that they stopped doing in the last act-it would have been cool for the cameras to still be rolling while everything went down.

[Bosco B Thug]

vy2nAOdBUlw Yeeeeaah I'll see this.

If it redefines my concept of Norwegian society or our generation or whatever, so be it.

[MadMan]

That Troll Hunter trailer=WTF was that? :lol:

[Grouchy]

Really? Its merely a loose comparison, but both movies have much in common. Only in Behind the Mask the camera crew doesn't end up helping the killer. Plus the use of mockmentary style film making. I didn't like that they stopped doing in the last act-it would have been cool for the cameras to still be rolling while everything went down.
No, I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I understand why the films are comparable. What I don't understand is thinking Behind the Mask is better. In contrast I see it as a really amateurish film with one good idea.

[megladon8]

Yeah, I'll see Troll Hunter, too.

[MadMan]

No, I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I understand why the films are comparable. What I don't understand is thinking Behind the Mask is better. In contrast I see it as a really amateurish film with one good idea.Oh. Well I found it to be a really effective, creepy horror movie. The problem with Man Bites Dog is that it loses its power to disturb later on in the movie, and the last act is really weak. Both movies are hurt by weak acts, the difference is that Behind the Mask actually manages to finish strong. I'm not sure why people think Man Bites Dog is a great film-its well made, but there are too many flaws that drag it down and are rather noticable. Namely that it ends up trying too damn hard to be shocking, for one thing. Really only two points seperates the two movies, and I'd say that in the "Documentary Style Film Making" category of movies over the past 10-15 years Cloverfield is slightly better than both of them. I have yet to see a great movie from this category, but I hear REC is fantastic so I'll check that one out next.

[megladon8]

Both Jen and I thought Behind the Mask was quite good.

I think it loses its steam a touch in the second half, but nothing to ruin the experience.

Nathan Baesel's performance was particularly impressive.

[MadMan]

Oh and I really want a sequel. Leslie Vernon's not only got a fantastic, really freaky mask, but he's one of the most interesting horror villians in some time. Its a bit un-nerving how easy it would be to hang out with the guy outside of his killing time, which is what the camera crew and Taylor did.

PS: With the exception of the deleted scene about the girl who Vernon labeled a virgin, all the deleted scenes should have made it into the movie. Oh and I forgot to note how awesome Scott Wilson is in this movie-it took a while for me to remember that it was him, seeing as he's also great in The Ninth Configuration.

[jenniferofthejungle]

Both Jen and I thought Behind the Mask was quite good.

I think it loses its steam a touch in the second half, but nothing to ruin the experience.

Nathan Baesel's performance was particularly impressive.


I actually think it's awesome.

[bac0n]

Heh, Troll Hunter looks fun.

[Grouchy]

Oh. Well I found it to be a really effective, creepy horror movie. The problem with Man Bites Dog is that it loses its power to disturb later on in the movie, and the last act is really weak. Both movies are hurt by weak acts, the difference is that Behind the Mask actually manages to finish strong. I'm not sure why people think Man Bites Dog is a great film-its well made, but there are too many flaws that drag it down and are rather noticable. Namely that it ends up trying too damn hard to be shocking, for one thing. Really only two points seperates the two movies, and I'd say that in the "Documentary Style Film Making" category of movies over the past 10-15 years Cloverfield is slightly better than both of them. I have yet to see a great movie from this category, but I hear REC is fantastic so I'll check that one out next.
I see what you're saying and I agree that both last acts are a bit of a letdown, but I like Behind the Mask a lot less than you. I think it really overstays its welcome with the killing spree, which turns out to be a predictable bore. Instead, Man Bites Dog retains its funny by constantly upping the stakes or introducing offbeat elements like the other killer with the other documentary crew. I didn't see that as "trying too hard". And besides, I find the filmmaking in Man Bites Dog miles more skillful than Behind the Mask - although maybe that's partly the black and white.

Hated Cloverfield, but yeah, [REC] is pretty good, you should check that out. Skip the sequel.

[Rowland]

Watched one of 2010's best new horror offerings tonight, I bet many here will dig it. I'll reveal it along with a capsule review in my horrorfest thread.

[jenniferofthejungle]

Watched one of 2010's best new horror offerings tonight, I bet many here will dig it. I'll reveal it along with a capsule review in my horrorfest thread.

I'm intrigued.



I haven't been watching much horror lately, or much of anything else either. I'm a little burned out on my usual horror favorites, and am looking forward to a few new viewings, especially one called Frozen. I'm going into that one blind, but I heard a few good things about it.

[megladon8]

The Hammer horror Night Creatures was, really, not particularly good. But my dad and I still got a kick out of it.

Peter Cushing's performance was the best part, playing the role of a seemingly too-good-to-be-true priest who smuggles booze, and may or may not have a history in piracy.

The effects are silly, the editing and pacing of the film are atrocious, and the story doesn't make much sense. But it is loaded to the brim with that Hammer gothic appeal.

Plus, Yvonne Romain is a babe...

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1484/9495386gal.jpg


Totally what Jen would call a "va-va-VOOM".

[Rowland]

I'm intrigued.

I haven't been watching much horror lately, or much of anything else either. I'm a little burned out on my usual horror favorites, and am looking forward to a few new viewings, especially one called Frozen. I'm going into that one blind, but I heard a few good things about it.:cool:

[Dukefrukem]

I'm intrigued.



I haven't been watching much horror lately, or much of anything else either. I'm a little burned out on my usual horror favorites, and am looking forward to a few new viewings, especially one called Frozen. I'm going into that one blind, but I heard a few good things about it.

I've wanted* to watch that for a while now. Let us know your thoughts.

I watched Carriers lasted night. I liked it.

Trailer for those that don't remember.

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[Grouchy]

Night of the Demons (1988) is pretty much what you'd expect from a classic '80s Horror flick. It's not shy on the gore or the practical effects, and all the characters are idiotic teenagers with unbelievable lines. However, its two more distinctive features are the animated intro and the very ending, which features one of the funniest twists ever. So, in short, not exactly good, but very enjoyable. I might get into the sequels at some point.

[Yxklyx]

The Cremator (1969 Juraj Herz) was excellent! Czech new wave. Wonderfully shot and edited.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4RKNUuVV_48/SUSeQw33-dI/AAAAAAAAD84/Myoi03wqyys/s320/Haning+Body+Equal+Cat+Toy.jpg

reminded me a lot of Svankmajer and Brothers Quay.

[B-side]

I've been meaning to check that one out, Yx.

[jenniferofthejungle]

:cool:

:lol: I just saw your updated thread. I'll read it, and post my own thoughts on it, this weekend.

[Dukefrukem]

pulling in an estimated $6.9m on close to an insane 2,700 screens at 2,572 locations. 3D accounted for around 86 percent of its business. Box Office Mojo reports that My Soul to Take had the worst opening yet for a 3D movie

[megladon8]

Rasputin: The Mad Monk was okay. Strange to say that a film that's barely an hour and a half felt like it began to drag, but it did. The hypnoses became a little repetitive, and the finale felt overly restrained, particularly when one knows the what apparently happened to Rasputin in the end.

Still, it's full of that signature Hammer gothic charm and Christopher Lee absolutely steals the movie with his performance as the titular evil-doer. Certainly one of his more rambunctious roles.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Thought I'd repost this here to see if it gets any discussion.

I watched Don't Look Now for the first time last night. I'll get the bad out of the way first. It's a bit too slow of a slow burn, and at times felt lost in its own atmosphere. Also, I've been very tired with school and work and everything, so that might have affected it too. Plus, my expectations were for something actually scary rather than just unsettling.

That said, the use of color, the use of shadows and space in the confusing alleys of Venice, the editing, the music, the performances... all masterfully crafted and evoke a strong sense of dread throughout, so that even when the film was a bit... slow... the atmosphere that Roeg created made it impossible to look away from. I'd like to give it another whirl in the near future (it'd be especially interesting knowing how it all comes together) but time is an issue. Still, at some point I plan to revisit this. I think my respect will only grow.

[Yxklyx]

If you like boring police procedurals, Lucio Fulci's Don't Torture a Duckling from 1972 is the film for you. Blech.

[Bosco B Thug]

Hellbound: Hellraiser II doesn't have too much sense or consequence or anything, but hey, that was fun, full-fledged entertainment, and really stylish... and I don't even mean that in the "Yeah, it was stylish, I gueeess" way I used with the Nightmare on Elm Street films, I mean stylish in a "Yeah... this is good filmmaking... what the heck?" kind of way.

I was sad to see director Tony Randel went on to do nothing bigger and better in his career. But looks like I'm going to go into Amityville 1992: It's About Time with bigger-than-expected expectations.

Anyway, yeah, Hellraiser II. Very enjoyable, surprisingly well-directed. If you can tolerate the expected inanity, you'll be rewarded in parts.

[Bosco B Thug]

While I still maintain that Hellbound: Hellraiser II is Hellraiser's Aliens (direct continuation of the first story, ups the scope and the effects budget, more characters on both the good and bad side, little mute blonde girl who happens to be deeply implicated in the whole mess, etc.) I've come to realize that the movie is just awful.

It's funny because about 3 years ago I thought it was the shiznit. I would have easily ranked it in my top 5 horrors of all time, and would have said that it was bigger and better than the first movie.

But jeez, watching it last night, the dialogue is some of the worst I've ever heard. Really, the script for this movie is an absolute pile of bollocks, and I think one of the biggest mistakes they made was trying to portray Pinhead and the rest of the Cenobites as just, moral creatures and - dare I say - sympathetic.

I can excuse their "deal making" with Kirsty in the first film because what Frank did really, really pissed them off and was seemingly the first time someone has ever escaped them like that. So sure, I guess they'd be willing to spare Kirsty if she could lead them to Frank.

But in the second film she does it again. And again. Hell, I was half-expecting Kirsty to ask Pinhead if he wanted to come over and make popcorn so they could watch a scary movie together (like, say, the first Hellraiser).

I will give the film this, though - it's absolutely disgusting. Movies like Saw, Haute Tension and Hostel are disturbing to watch, and can make you flinch by the pain they show the characters experiencing...but Hellbound: Hellraiser II is just gross.

Dead Alive may be the goriest film of all time, but I'd say this is the most disgusting, or at least in the top ranks.

I haven't seen so many phallic images shooting out razor blades, or phallic images eating brains, or phallic images slicing peoples' throats in all my life. Add to that the people walking around without skin, the people being eaten alive by a woman without skin, and, ugh, the guy who thinks he is covered in insects and is given a razorblade (by his doctor, no less!) to try to cut them off...and yes, this is one sickening horrorfest.

I still enjoy the hell out of it. It's briskly paced, has some great one-liners by Pinhead, and the make-up and SFX are top notch.

But the writing is just so, so terrible that I cannot bring myself to call it a "favorite" or "best" anymore. In fact, I can barely bring myself to give it a passing grade. :lol: Haha, valid opinions here. It is an Aliens to an Alien.

I still maintain that there's a lot of just plain good in this movie.

It goes to show how well-executed I thought the movie was, that the film making so very little sense for the majority of the time never kept me from being engaged in the action on screen. There's some stand-out sequences, too - the razorblade scene/Julia's resurrection really impressed me, for instance. Consistently freaky imagery, up to the very final scene.

This also made shockingly intelligent use of the "quick-flashing traumatic memories" shtick that usually presents bad horror movies at their stupidest.

I was surprisingly open to the "human-side" of the Cenobites. I mean, it only makes sense, I'd say.

Yeah, I didn't notice it until one essential shot some time after his first appearance, that the Doctor just had a giant penis attached to his head. Yup, some well-done special effects in this one, considering.

[soitgoes...]

If you like boring police procedurals, Lucio Fulci's Don't Torture a Duckling from 1972 is the film for you. Blech.
I wouldn't give it a "1," but I agree the film is entirely forgettable. I saw it last week, and for the most part it has already slipped my mind.

[Grouchy]

I have very fond memories of Hellbound, mainly the crazy imagery and Pinhead's origin story. The Doctor is great. I probably didn't mind the cheesy dialogue because of that.

Speaking of very bad films, though, there is nothing that can compare to what we were shown last Tuesdays of Horror - the 1997 DTV feature The Necro Files. It's a US production shot in VHS in Buenos Aires. It's about a zombie, whom we'll call Necro, and the two "Seattle" cops who are after him. I don't know whether to keep talking or leave you with the following NSFW screencap.

http://www.wicked-vision.com/artikel/ToddTjersland/NecroFiles1Szene.jpg

And there is flying zombie baby. Couldn't find an image, but it's a toy with zombie make-up hanging from a string.

[Dead & Messed Up]

God. In the spirit of the season, I tried watching Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, could only make it through the first hour, and so I switched over on Netflix Instant to Survival of the Dead, a film I felt obligated to watch, since it's Romero, and I only lasted twenty minutes into that.

I have no desire to finish either film.

:|

[MadMan]

Another person who missed the point of Survival of the Dead :P

[Yxklyx]

Wow, Let Sleeping Corpses Lie (aka Don't Open the Window or The Living Dead at Manchester Morgue) was very impressive. Made in 1974 by Spanish director Jorge Grau and shot mostly in rural England with an international cast. One of the best zombie films I've ever seen.

http://www.aycyas.com/LSCL74-flames1.jpg

[megladon8]

Wow, Let Sleeping Corpses Lie (aka Don't Open the Window or The Living Dead at Manchester Morgue) was very impressive. Made in 1974 by Spanish director Jorge Grau and shot mostly in rural England with an international cast. One of the best zombie films I've ever seen.

http://www.aycyas.com/LSCL74-flames1.jpg


YES!!!

Thank you!

Why haven't people listened to my ravings and sought this one out?? It truly is one of the greatest zombie films, and it's criminally unnoticed.

Let's form a club :)

[MacGuffin]

YES!!!

Thank you!

Why haven't people listened to my ravings and sought this one out?? It truly is one of the greatest zombie films, and it's criminally unnoticed.

Let's form a club :)

Queued and bumped to the top. Been meaning to see it for a while anyway, and it's October... so.

[Grouchy]

Wow, Let Sleeping Corpses Lie (aka Don't Open the Window or The Living Dead at Manchester Morgue) was very impressive. Made in 1974 by Spanish director Jorge Grau and shot mostly in rural England with an international cast. One of the best zombie films I've ever seen.
I've known about that one for a while but for some reason never really got around to it. It seems I should.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Another person who missed the point of Survival of the Dead :P

Fool. Your intellectual superiority has been dampened by your silly emoticon.

[Dukefrukem]

Another person who missed the point of Survival of the Dead :P

Remind me what that's supposed to be again? To not be entertained right?

[number8]

Burn.

[MacGuffin]

Remind me what that's supposed to be again? To not be entertained right?

That wouldn't make any sense if you really did miss the point, because that would mean that you liked the film. ;)

[Dukefrukem]

Haha. Well, how about this then (http://www.boston.com/ae/gallery/howtokillmonsters/?p1=News_links#). 210k for me. I didnt do very well. The points are earned based on how fast you answer questions.

[Raiders]

428,758,000 for me. Missed three questions.

[Ezee E]

284. One of the answers tricked me.

[Dukefrukem]

284. One of the answers tricked me.

Was it the Halloween one?

[Ezee E]

Was it the Halloween one?
Yup. And the Gremlin rules got me too.

The rest are ones I haven't seen.

[megladon8]

I thought it was a little weird that among all these questions about classic horror movie monsters and villains, it randomly throws in a question about The Burrowers, an indie horror movie from 2009 that about 10 people saw.

[Dead & Messed Up]

684k.

Burrowers? The hell?

[megladon8]

684k.

Burrowers? The hell?



Seriously.

It's a great movie and everyone should see it...but yeah...Michael Myers! Chucky! Freddy vs. Jason! Werewolves! Vampires! THE BURROWERS???

[Grouchy]

335,520,000

I had no idea what The Borrowers was either. I answered that one wrong.

[Raiders]

684k.

Burrowers? The hell?

I got that one right as it was the only logical answer.

[D_Davis]

387,046,000

[megladon8]

The Crazies was a really pleasant surprise. Well written, well acted, well shot. It was a good little horror movie that deserved a better release than it got.

Timothy Olyphant is quite good. I would love to see him become a more prominent leading man. He's charismatic, strong, and I like that he can quite capably play an "everyman".

Some chilling scenes in this one, too. And while the gore is brutal at times, it never felt like it was there for schlocky purposes.

This was very well done.

Oh, and I really liked the understated musical score. Added some great atmosphere, especially in the daytime scenes.

[MacGuffin]

Has anyone here seen The Untold Story or Ebola Syndrome?

[megladon8]

The Hidden (from 1987) was...well...kind of bad.

The script is awful. I really don't mind expository dialogue if it's carried out with some panache, but here it is just so ham-handed. Lines like "so are you telling me..." and "are you saying..." are everywhere.

The way Kyle MacLachlan's character is "revealed" is also quite sloppy. I won't spoil it, but yeah, from one scene to the next his behaviour completely changes. It was jarring and just not very well done.

It isn't terrible, but a 6.9 rating on IMDb is a little strange to me when much better movies have much lower ratings.

Oh, and it's also painfully 80s, so if you're into that sort of thing, maybe it'd be worth checking out.

And what's with Clu Gulager being billed near the top when he has less than a minute of screen time?

[Dukefrukem]

House of the Devil A+++++++++++++

[megladon8]

House of the Devil A+++++++++++++


Glad you liked it so much, Duke.

It's a very effective slow burn.

[Boner M]

I would like to add to the love for Let Sleeping Corpses Lie. Rural England is such a good horror movie setting.

[Mr. Pink]

Has anyone here seen The Untold Story or Ebola Syndrome?


Yes. Both are amazing, top-notch horror films. And I never plan on seeing either one again.

Also, Mary Shelly's Frankenstein does suck a whole lot (especially in comparison to the book), The Hidden is incredibly overrated, and House of the Devil is amazing stuff.

Also, nice to see you guys again. I think it's been a while. . .

[MadMan]

Haha. Well, how about this then (http://www.boston.com/ae/gallery/howtokillmonsters/?p1=News_links#). 210k for me. I didnt do very well. The points are earned based on how fast you answer questions.I only missed 3 questions. Cool quiz, really.


Remind me what that's supposed to be again? To not be entertained right?Yes. And its an entertaining and funny movie.


Fool. Your intellectual superiority has been dampened by your silly emoticon.What intellectual superiority? ;)

Jason X doesn't even work as a comedy. It just flat out sucks on every level. Except for I guess the main chick was hot, and the kills were entertaining. But its beyond stupid, and if the series was aiming for parody at this point they failed miserably. Especially considering how good and funny Jason Lives was at poking fun at the Jason series. After I watch FVJ I'll have viewed every one in the series, including the remake. Took me long enough-I started viewing the series back in 2008.

Trick 'r' Treat really was great fun, and had a decent amount of creepy moments. The middle story with Anna Paquin was rather dull for the most part, but the ones with Dylan Baker and Brian Cox were great. Plus I rather liked how the tale featuring the kids screwing around at the site of an infamous "Accident" played out like a good old fashioned Tales from the Crypt morality tale. Plus Sam was really an eerie yet awesome main character-as evidenced by this movie and the enjoyable (and morbidly amusing) Season's Greetings short I'd like to see more of the character. Just make sure you don't piss him off by destroying pumpkins. And give him candy.

[Dukefrukem]

Jason X doesn't even work as a comedy. It just flat out sucks on every level. Except for I guess the main chick was hot, and the kills were entertaining. But its beyond stupid, and if the series was aiming for parody at this point they failed miserably. Especially considering how good and funny Jason Lives was at poking fun at the Jason series. After I watch FVJ I'll have viewed every one in the series, including the remake. Took me long enough-I started viewing the series back in 2008.

Trick 'r' Treat really was great fun, and had a decent amount of creepy moments. The middle story with Anna Paquin was rather dull for the most part, but the ones with Dylan Baker and Brian Cox were great. Plus I rather liked how the tale featuring the kids screwing around at the site of an infamous "Accident" played out like a good old fashioned Tales from the Crypt morality tale. Plus Sam was really an eerie yet awesome main character-as evidenced by this movie and the enjoyable (and morbidly amusing) Season's Greetings short I'd like to see more of the character. Just make sure you don't piss him off by destroying pumpkins. And give him candy.

I agree in both cases. Jason X, the best line?

"he's screwed" *and the guy is impaled on a giant screw*

[Russ]

Still no one (apart from me and Philosophe Rouge) has seen A Serbian Film yet? I know she didn't care for it, but, if anything, I've become more convinced it's a borderline great film, and certainly one of the best horror films of recent years. It's really strange to be so impressed with a film and, at the same time, unable to recommend it. I'd love to get in a discussion of this important film, but that will prove difficult in light of the controversial content and its general unavailability (although an uncut screener copy has been made available on the interwebs). I would advise any curious parties to read a few of the online reviews first, though.

Here's the EXTREMELY not safe for work six-minute Red Band Trailer:

http://www.trailerspy.com/trailer/8035/Serbian-Film-Red-Band-Trailer

[Dukefrukem]

Glad you liked it so much, Duke.

It's a very effective slow burn.

I was glued to the set in the scenes right after the walkman dance.

[Dead & Messed Up]

My pitiful attempt at a horror-thon for this Halloween was nearly bested by the awfulness of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, but I watched it all and survived, sanity threatened but saved.

I wrote a blog entry about my chief dissastisfaction. (http://horrorfilms101.blogspot.com)

Now, onward to either Survival of the Dead or Gojira (original version).

[megladon8]

I'm still morbidly curious to see Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.

It came to VHS when I was a kid. I went to the video store to rent it and was given Mary Reilly.

Man, was that a disappointment :lol:

[D_Davis]

Has anyone here seen The Untold Story or Ebola Syndrome?

Yes. I like The Untold Story quite a bit. Anthony Wong is absolutely brilliant in this, and well deserving of his best actor win.

[Raiders]

Yeahhhh... I really kinda like Branagh's Frankenstein. It's over-the-top Gothic camp for sure, but Branagh wrings a lot of mileage out of his two central character's emotional displacement and devolution into violence. It's frantic and all over the place, but it's actually a much more effective film than I would have expected. It contains the same grandiose ambitions of his Shakespeare adaptations but where there his camera was controlled and captured the sets and "stage," here he just lets his characters spin wildly out of control. Yeah, I liked it.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Yeahhhh... I really kinda like Branagh's Frankenstein. It's over-the-top Gothic camp for sure, but Branagh wrings a lot of mileage out of his two central character's emotional displacement and devolution into violence. It's frantic and all over the place, but it's actually a much more effective film than I would have expected. It contains the same grandiose ambitions of his Shakespeare adaptations but where there his camera was controlled and captured the sets and "stage," here he just lets his characters spin wildly out of control. Yeah, I liked it.

The only element that really worked for me was the middle segment where De Niro and Branagh talked in the ice cave, but even that was preceded by a ridiculous shot of De Niro leaping out above Branagh like they were in 300 or something. The rest of the time...gah, I don't know, it felt like the movie was about to burst a blood vessel.

[megladon8]

Wait a second...did I see Mr. Pink??? :eek:

[MadMan]

Yes. Both are amazing, top-notch horror films. And I never plan on seeing either one again.

Also, Mary Shelly's Frankenstein does suck a whole lot (especially in comparison to the book), The Hidden is incredibly overrated, and House of the Devil is amazing stuff.

Also, nice to see you guys again. I think it's been a while. . .Mr. Pink! Come back! I can't believe I overlooked Pink's post....

Oh and The Legend of Hell House was a well made, incredibly crafted haunted house movie. I didn't know that Roddy McDowell was actually in a horror movie, and he's one of the best things about the picture-although apparently Richard Matherson, who wrote the screenplay, had to tone down certain aspects of his novel. Still the rather strong sexual overtones (which are still somewhat played out in obvious fashion) are there, and there's one scene that plays out as rape, which was disturbing.
Now part of me thinks that the ending could have been better, although it was still a creepy finale and the last shot is great. I'm not sure if this is better than The Haunting(1963), although its really quite different from that one. Comparing and contrasting 60s and 70s horror is fun to do.

[Mr. Pink]

Wait a second...did I see Mr. Pink??? :eek:

You did. How've you been, Meg?

[Mr. Pink]

Mr. Pink! Come back! I can't believe I overlooked Pink's post....



Hey, man. How are you?


So . . . my link to jumpscare quit working, and, after Rebort left I assumed we were being intentionally disbanded. Wasn't too happy about that, but apparently that wasn't the case (I saw your farewell post after searching for Massive on google, and finding the jumpscare site).

That, plus life getting in the way (school, broken back, etc.) kept me from here but I was getting all sentimental and nostalgic lately and found jumpscare/mach-cut again.

I'm surprised you guys are still here. Some of you, anyways. Any word on what happened to the rest of 'em?

[megladon8]

Mr. Pink! It's so wonderful to see you!

The Axis did pretty much disband. Some personal falling-outs, peoples' lives getting in the way, etc. etc. etc.

Plus, no one posts on RT anymore because that place is a mess. We were there when it was cool :)

Broken back? What the heck happened?? I can sympathize, though. Not sure if you remember but back in 2002 when I began posting on RT, it had been just over a year since I'd had a 5-level spinal fusion.

Hope you're doing OK now, and again, it's GREAT to see you.

[MadMan]

Hey, man. How are you?Ah, doing alright. Hopefully will finish school sometime in the near future.


So . . . my link to jumpscare quit working, and, after Rebort left I assumed we were being intentionally disbanded. Wasn't too happy about that, but apparently that wasn't the case (I saw your farewell post after searching for Massive on google, and finding the jumpscare site).

That, plus life getting in the way (school, broken back, etc.) kept me from here but I was getting all sentimental and nostalgic lately and found jumpscare/mach-cut again.

I'm surprised you guys are still here. Some of you, anyways. Any word on what happened to the rest of 'em?Broken back? That sucks.

And yeah meg accurately covered what happened with the Axis. pscion (I think that's spelled right) tried to save the site, but in the end things fell through. Rebort disappearing and the nasty split killed the Axis. There are a few horror threads on RT, but they aren't the same as what the Axis was. I like this thread well enough, though. Bloody Disgusting is a website that I believe some others from the Axis, and myself too, post at that's okay, but hey it covers horror, so there yah go.

[Mr. Pink]

Mr. Pink! It's so wonderful to see you!

The Axis did pretty much disband. Some personal falling-outs, peoples' lives getting in the way, etc. etc. etc.

Plus, no one posts on RT anymore because that place is a mess. We were there when it was cool :)

Broken back? What the heck happened?? I can sympathize, though. Not sure if you remember but back in 2002 when I began posting on RT, it had been just over a year since I'd had a 5-level spinal fusion.

Hope you're doing OK now, and again, it's GREAT to see you.

Yeah, you too, man.

I guess that's to be expected. I remember some of the fall out, but I wasn't around much longer after Rebort took off.

Well, I sort of Bruce-Lee'd myself. Life was a bad (good?) Cronenberg movie for about two years. It's better now, but it was so much better when I wasn't a half-cripple. I actually do remember you had a broken back, too. I pretty much didn't watch anything for those two years, so it was probably better I wasn't around.

But, yeah, it's great to be back and see you all again.

For the record, Sam Raimi won me back over with Drag Me to Hell. That movie was awesome.

[Mr. Pink]

Ah, doing alright. Hopefully will finish school sometime in the near future.

Broken back? That sucks.

And yeah meg accurately covered what happened with the Axis. pscion (I think that's spelled right) tried to save the site, but in the end things fell through. Rebort disappearing and the nasty split killed the Axis. There are a few horror threads on RT, but they aren't the same as what the Axis was. I like this thread well enough, though. Bloody Disgusting is a website that I believe some others from the Axis, and myself too, post at that's okay, but hey it covers horror, so there yah go.

Nice. I'm still a few years away, but breaking your back doesn't help (didn't hurt my gpa though).

Man, that's disappointing. Well, couldn't last forever, I guess. Ah, well. It is good to see you all again.

[MadMan]

Yeah its kind of hard to go anywhere when you can't move, heh.

I really wish the Axis could have gone on till the end of time itself. But all good things do come to an end, yes. I'm more bummed that I haven't gotten to talk to some of the other members who have disappeared over the years (like Sauron, Gwish, Rev. Ruin who I think was posting here at one point maybe but has I haven't seen him post in a while, spikey, etc.)

[megladon8]

Yeah, you too, man.

I guess that's to be expected. I remember some of the fall out, but I wasn't around much longer after Rebort took off.

Well, I sort of Bruce-Lee'd myself. Life was a bad (good?) Cronenberg movie for about two years. It's better now, but it was so much better when I wasn't a half-cripple. I actually do remember you had a broken back, too. I pretty much didn't watch anything for those two years, so it was probably better I wasn't around.


So wait...you started teaching martial arts to white folks against the will of your sensei, and your back was broken by a hired goon?




For the record, Sam Raimi won me back over with Drag Me to Hell. That movie was awesome.


Awesome to have another on our side!

Drag Me to Hell is just about the definition of "love it or hate it" here on Match Cut. I don't think there's anyone who thinks it's "just OK".

[number8]

In case you're wondering why Giallo still doesn't have a US release, it's because Adrien Brody sued Argento and is blocking the release.

[megladon8]

In case you're wondering why Giallo still doesn't have a US release, it's because Adrien Brody sued Argento and is blocking the release.


What was the reason for the lawsuit?

And not that I'm feeling like I'm missing much. Argento hasn't done anything worthwhile in 20+ years.

[Raiders]

They never paid him.

[Ezee E]

They never paid him.
Fair reason I suppose.

[Rowland]

Drag Me to Hell is just about the definition of "love it or hate it" here on Match Cut. I don't think there's anyone who thinks it's "just OK".*raises hand all sheepish-like*

[Rowland]

Argento hasn't done anything worthwhile in 20+ years.Waaaat?

This is a textbook definition of worthwhile. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKHhk12f6L0&feature=related)

[Scar]

*raises hand all sheepish-like*

Same.

[megladon8]

Waaaat?

This is a textbook definition of worthwhile. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKHhk12f6L0&feature=related)


Mother of Tears was atrocious.

[Rowland]

Mother of Tears was atrocious.Perhaps, but it's also the most entertaining thing he's done in two decades.

[MacGuffin]

Yes. I like The Untold Story quite a bit. Anthony Wong is absolutely brilliant in this, and well deserving of his best actor win.

Tonight I may check this out if I feel up for it (may just try watching Zombie Holocaust instead). There are a few other CAT III films that interest me aside from those two; any of 'em stand out for you or anyone else?

[MacGuffin]

Perhaps, but it's also the most entertaining thing he's done in two decades.

The Stendhal Syndrome is pretty great, barring the shitty dated CGI.

[D_Davis]

Tonight I may check this out if I feel up for it (may just try watching Zombie Holocaust instead). There are a few other CAT III films that interest me aside from those two; any of 'em stand out for you or anyone else?

Sex and Zen is great.

[Dead & Messed Up]

What was the reason for the lawsuit?

And not that I'm feeling like I'm missing much. Argento hasn't done anything worthwhile in 20+ years.

I liked "Pelts."

[Ezee E]

They are all pretty bad. Really bad actually.

[soitgoes...]

Drag Me to Hell is just about the definition of "love it or hate it" here on Match Cut. I don't think there's anyone who thinks it's "just OK".
We just had a conversation where I called the film mediocre.

[Scar]

We just had a conversation where I called the film mediocre.

I loved the goat. LOVED IT. The rest, kinda meh.

[soitgoes...]

So Big Tits Zombie, what is there to say about this film? Based off a manga, there really isn't anything new here to add to the zombie sub-genre. I guess the best two things that can be said about it are that the title is awesome and that it's a fairly fast moving 75 minute film. Oh, and there's boobs.

[soitgoes...]

I loved the goat. LOVED IT. The rest, kinda meh.You pretty much encapsulated my two posts into one.

[Rowland]

More than anything, it suffers from a plasticity that seems counter-intuitive with the gonzo vibe for which Raimi strives. Recently watching Darkman for the first time emphasized how much more joy and texture there was in his older work that feels compressed, if not diluted entirely, by his dependence on digital effects of, to be charitable, uneven tactility.

[Scar]

More than anything, it suffers from a plasticity that seems counter-intuitive with the gonzo vibe for which Raimi strives. Recently watching Darkman for the first time emphasized how much more joy and texture there was in his older work that feels compressed, if not diluted entirely, by his dependence on digital effects of uneven tactility.

I lost count on how many times I watched that when I was a youngin'.

I'm hesitant to rewatch it.

[Rowland]

I lost count on how many times I watched that when I was a youngin'.

I'm hesitant to rewatch it.It's no masterpiece, but it holds up well, with some really astonishing craft that throws into relief how uninspired most superhero movies are.

[Bosco B Thug]

Alex Jackson of FFC's recent tweets regarding Argento:

"Deep Red (1975): ** out of ****. That first shot is awesome, but Dario Argento makes movies just to make movies."

"I think I'm either too smart or too dumb to appreciate Argento. Still hung up on requiring movies to have some kind of point of view."

Unrelated to anything, really, but an interesting line of thought.

Anyway, I think Argento's definitely had the biggest drop-off into senility of all 70s horror masters. Suspiria to that clip from Mother of Tears? How?

And clearly a psychic projection from the ongoings in the General Discussion thread, The Human Centipede is arriving in my mailbox tomorrow, and I'm kinda excited.

[MacGuffin]

"Deep Red (1975): ** out of ****. That first shot is awesome, but Dario Argento makes movies just to make movies."

"I think I'm either too smart or too dumb to appreciate Argento. Still hung up on requiring movies to have some kind of point of view."

Well, the first sentence is a genuinely stupid criticism. The second sentence, I'm not sure I really understand.

[megladon8]

Alex Jackson of FFC's recent tweets regarding Argento:

"Deep Red (1975): ** out of ****. That first shot is awesome, but Dario Argento makes movies just to make movies."

"I think I'm either too smart or too dumb to appreciate Argento. Still hung up on requiring movies to have some kind of point of view."

Unrelated to anything, really, but an interesting line of thought.

Those are pretty dumb criticisms.



Anyway, I think Argento's definitely had the biggest drop-off into senility of all 70s horror masters. Suspiria to that clip from Mother of Tears? How?

Completely agree. I've said this before - he's had absolutely no luck working with new filming technology and techniques.

I think his whole style is trapped in the 70s/80s. He doesn't know how to make an effective modern film.

Though I did kind of like the "MoH" episode "Jenifer".

[MadMan]

Burnt Offerings is an underrated, creepy, well made haunted house movie that in some ways avoids the cliches of the genre and builds up its scares towards a rather unforgettable climx. From what I saw it might have inspired somewhat The Shining and The Evil Dead, although I have no idea if that's true or not. Oliver Reed brings a brooding presence to the proceedings, and Karen Black's descent into obsession is fascinating to watch. Plus it has the legendary Bette Davis in a supporting actress role as well, although she doesn't do a whole lot, unfortunately. Best scene is probably the pool coming alive-watching a loved one struggle to survive while not being able to come to their aid is truly a terrifying thing.

Cujo was a surprise in that I didn't know how freaky a movie about a killer dog could be. Really intense and well paced, the movie turns from a film about a family falling apart into a mother's desperate struggle to save her son from the cruel violent clutch of nature. The dog itself was quite frightening, and many scenes were so tense that I had no idea how they were going to play out. Easily one of the best horror movies of the 80s-I'm interested in reading the book. It appears that with this and The Dead Zone 1983 was a good year for Stephen King adaptations.

[Rowland]

"Deep Red (1975): ** out of ****. That first shot is awesome, but Dario Argento makes movies just to make movies."

"I think I'm either too smart or too dumb to appreciate Argento. Still hung up on requiring movies to have some kind of point of view."

Unrelated to anything, really, but an interesting line of thought.Ahh yes, I've read these as well. It's amusing that he's "hung up on requiring movies to have some kind of point of view," when point of view is one of Argento's most consistently explored themes. Ed Gonzalez has written some really in-depth reviews of Argento's work that explicate his auteurist thematic concerns, but I've only ever remained halfway convinced, truth be told. I'd liken his best work, as Walter Chaw has, to a great cinematic fucking.

[MadMan]

I don't trust anyone who doesn't like Suspira. At the very least one can just sit back and enjoy the stunning visuals. Not to mention the fact that its one incredibly weird movie.

[megladon8]

I don't trust anyone who doesn't like Suspira. At the very least one can just sit back and enjoy the stunning visuals. Not to mention the fact that its one incredibly weird movie.


It's constantly at odds with Deep Red as my favorite Argento. It probably takes the cake (by a smidgen) based solely on the fact that it has more nostalgic value for me.

Just about anything pre-1990 Argento is good-to-great. Even Inferno, which is probably my least favorite Argento film, is still a pretty good, stylish nightmare.

MadMan, have you seen much Bava? If not, I strongly recommend you check out some of his horror offerings :)

[Bosco B Thug]

Huh, well I posted those tweets because I kinda agree with him. Obviously, fine, whatevs Match-Cut. :)


Ahh yes, I've read these as well. It's amusing that he's "hung up on requiring movies to have some kind of point of view," when point of view is one of Argento's most consistently explored themes. Ed Gonzalez has written some really in-depth reviews of Argento's work that explicate his auteurist thematic concerns, but I've only ever remained halfway convinced, truth be told. I'd liken his best work, as Walter Chaw has, to a great cinematic fucking. That's the thing, though. And simultaneously, yeah, nothing wrong with it at all. I still like Argento bunches.

I've read Gonzalez's looong Argento Slant stuff and it's hilarious, I think Argento's stuff gets the better of him. He explicates and explicates, nitty-gritty about eyes and motifs, but his getting at any greater themes is lacking. I see this as being at the core of Jackson's "Argento has no POV" jab.

IMO, Argento's so committed to this cinema-as-contraption, high-style thing of his, that there's something being left out, and it shows, as something non-existent, emotionally. No denying his films are Argento being supremely intellectual with cinema, yes, but that's why I found Jackson's "Either I'm too smart or too dumb" quip so clever.


Cujo was a surprise in that I didn't know how freaky a movie about a killer dog could be. Really intense and well paced, the movie turns from a film about a family falling apart into a mother's desperate struggle to save her son from the cruel violent clutch of nature. The dog itself was quite frightening, and many scenes were so tense that I had no idea how they were going to play out. Easily one of the best horror movies of the 80s-I'm interested in reading the book. It appears that with this and The Dead Zone 1983 was a good year for Stephen King adaptations. Glad you liked it. Did you watch the relatively new Widescreen transfer? I still haven't gotten to watching it in widescreen (and I have a big warm spot for the movie, so I really should). Oh, and I love the book. More people should read it.

[MadMan]

It's constantly at odds with Deep Red as my favorite Argento. It probably takes the cake (by a smidgen) based solely on the fact that it has more nostalgic value for me.Deep Red is one I'm going to get around to watching. Netflix is currently sending me The Bird with the Crystal Plumage from Argento. I can't wait.


Just about anything pre-1990 Argento is good-to-great. Even Inferno, which is probably my least favorite Argento film, is still a pretty good, stylish nightmare.Inferno, the only other Argento movie I've seen, is quite solid. I enjoyed it.


MadMan, have you seen much Bava? If not, I strongly recommend you check out some of his horror offerings :)Yep. I've viewed Planet of the Vampires, Black Sunday, part of Black Sabbath, The Girl Who Knew Too Much, Blood and Black Lace, and Kill, Baby....Kill! from Bava. I'm rather annoyed that Twitch of the Death Nerve isn't currently available on Netflix for me to rent. Even though I imagine that Argento's best is probably better than Bava's, I have a feeling that when it comes down to director's I'm more of a Bava fan. His movies are well made, have strong gothic undertones, and are visually stunning.

[MadMan]

Glad you liked it. Did you watch the relatively new Widescreen transfer? I still haven't gotten to watching it in widescreen (and I have a big warm spot for the movie, so I really should). Oh, and I love the book. More people should read it.Yep the DVD copy I rented was the Cujo 25th Anniversary edition from my local library. It looked great in widescreen. The book is something I think I should be able to track down. Before I view Christine next (also from 1983-wahoo) I should probably read the book first.

[soitgoes...]

Even though I imagine that Argento's best is probably better than Bava's, I have a feeling that when it comes down to director's I'm more of a Bava fan.Nah, Bava's best blows Argento out of the water.

[Derek]

Nah, Bava's best blows Argento out of the water.

I still haven't seen enough Bava to say for sure, but nothing so far has come close to touching Deep Red. Then again, most Argento's I've seen don't either.

[B-side]

Seen 2 Bava's. Neither were particularly good. Blood and Black Lace and Bay of Blood. Adequate, but nothing exceptional.

Opera is where it's at, yo.

[soitgoes...]

Forgive me. I forgot about The Bird with Crystal Plumage which would be on par with four Bava films I've seen. I haven't seen Opera yet, but honestly if it rated higher than the Bava's it would be a huge surprise. Very few horror films jive that well with me. The four Bava's:

Black Sunday (1960) - 8.0
Blood and Black Lace (1964) - 8.0
Danger: Diabolik (1968) - 8.5
Bay of Blood (1971) - 8.5

[Dukefrukem]

utmvmr7cgcg

[number8]

http://twitter.com/#!/eliroth/status/27803518157

[Raiders]

Forgive me. I forgot about The Bird with Crystal Plumage which would be on par with four Bava films I've seen. I haven't seen Opera yet, but honestly if it rated higher than the Bava's it would be a huge surprise. Very few horror films jive that well with me. The four Bava's:

Black Sunday (1960) - 8.0
Blood and Black Lace (1964) - 8.0
Danger: Diabolik (1968) - 8.5
Bay of Blood (1971) - 8.5

You haven't even seen his best film, Kill, Baby... Kill!.

[MacGuffin]

My favorite Bava is Black Sunday, but Twitch of the Death Nerve [aka A Bay of Blood] could easily best it on second viewing.

[soitgoes...]

You haven't even seen his best film, Kill, Baby... Kill!.
I didn't list all the Bava films I've seen, only the ones that I deemed the best. Kill, Baby... Kill! is not among his best.

[Raiders]

I didn't list all the Bava films I've seen, only the ones that I deemed the best. Kill, Baby... Kill! is not among his best.

Oh. I see. You're just wrong and silly.

[soitgoes...]

Oh. I see. You're just wrong and silly.More often than not. :)

[MadMan]

I'll have to revisit Kill Baby...Kill! because from what I recall, it was merely solid/decent. So far the best Bava I've viewed has been Blood and Black Lace, which is not only underrated as far as slashers go but also a very effective horror/thriller.

[Rowland]

Black Sabbath is my favorite Bava, and I like everything else I've seen besides Baron Blood. Black Sunday struck me as overrated as well, though I may feel otherwise with a revisit.

[megladon8]

Yep. I've viewed Planet of the Vampires, Black Sunday, part of Black Sabbath, The Girl Who Knew Too Much, Blood and Black Lace, and Kill, Baby....Kill! from Bava. I'm rather annoyed that Twitch of the Death Nerve isn't currently available on Netflix for me to rent. Even though I imagine that Argento's best is probably better than Bava's, I have a feeling that when it comes down to director's I'm more of a Bava fan. His movies are well made, have strong gothic undertones, and are visually stunning.


Look for it under the title Bay of Blood.

It was released in a Bava collection by Anchor Bay a couple years back. I own it.

[MacGuffin]

I'll have to revisit Kill Baby...Kill! because from what I recall, it was merely solid/decent.

You're recalling it incorrectly.


So far the best Bava I've viewed has been Blood and Black Lace, which is not only underrated as far as slashers go but also a very effective horror/thriller.

It's not a slasher, it's a giallo, and in the league of gialli, it's typically rated among the best.

[MadMan]

You're recalling it incorrectly.Maybe, maybe not. It was a few years ago. But god forbid I disagree with people about a movie :rolleyes:


It's not a slasher, it's a giallo, and in the league of gialli, it's typically rated among the best.I know its a giallo. I still don't hear enough horror fans mentioning how awesome it is. And many giallos, Blood and Black Lace included, can be filled under the slasher subgenre.


Look for it under the title Bay of Blood.

It was released in a Bava collection by Anchor Bay a couple years back. I own it.Yes I checked Netflix again and even the Bay of Blood copy wasn't available for release yet :|

[megladon8]

Sorry, MadMan :( If I see some crazy deal on it or something, I'll let you know. Have you ever read/heard how Friday the 13th Part 2 blatantly stole kills and shots from Bay of Blood?

And I completely agree with you about Blood and Black Lace. I've seen it probably a half dozen times now. Fantastic movie.

[MacGuffin]

And many giallos, Blood and Black Lace included, can be filled under the slasher subgenre.

Well it was giallo ---> slasher, and technically they're both part of the thriller genre. In fact, Mario Bava, who was known for his early giallo movies (The Girl Who Knew too Much; the title in reference to the Hitchcock film of the thriller genre) and gothic horrors, made Twitch of the Nerve Death, the proto-slasher, which was eventually... "re-imagined" as the Americanized slasher Friday the 13th.

[MadMan]

Well it was giallo ---> slasher, and technically they're both part of the thriller genre. In fact, Mario Bava, who was known for his early giallo movies (The Girl Who Knew too Much; the title in reference to the Hitchcock film of the thriller genre) and gothic horrors, made Twitch of the Nerve Death, the proto-slasher, which was eventually... "re-imagined" as the Americanized slasher Friday the 13th.True, true. What do you think of The Girl Who Knew Too Much? I respected what it was trying to do, and I liked John Saxon (it was weird watching him clearly dubbed over, heh) but I thought it was merely decent at best. Maybe I just didn't get the sly, underhanded humor and I misunderstood partly about what it was trying to do. I'm not really sure.

I love that I'm talking about Friday the 13th ripping off Bava when I'm sporting a Jason Lives avatar :D


Sorry, MadMan :( If I see some crazy deal on it or something, I'll let you know. Have you ever read/heard how Friday the 13th Part 2 blatantly stole kills and shots from Bay of Blood?

And I completely agree with you about Blood and Black Lace. I've seen it probably a half dozen times now. Fantastic movie.Well its all good about Bay of Blood. I can wait.

Yes I have read about how Friday the 13th Part II rips off Bay of Blood. Hell I'd say the whole Jason series rips off Bava and the giallo in general.

[MacGuffin]

True, true. What do you think of The Girl Who Knew Too Much? I respected what it was trying to do, and I liked John Saxon (it was weird watching him clearly dubbed over, heh) but I thought it was merely decent at best. Maybe I just didn't get the sly, underhanded humor and I misunderstood partly about what it was trying to do. I'm not really sure.

It's pretty good, but I don't really think Bava's giallo movies are where he shines.

[Mr. Pink]

Has anyone seen Bava's Kidnapped (AKA Rabid Dogs) yet?

I thought I'd seen all of his best stuff, but I was wrong. That movie is absolutely amazing (even in its unfinished form).

[Dukefrukem]

No comments on that Clown trailer? It looks promising.

[Russ]

No comments on that Clown trailer? It looks promising.
No such movie. Fake trailer.

http://www.thescreeningroom.ca/2010/10/eli-roth-continues-making-trailers-for-non-existent-movies.html

[Dukefrukem]

No way?

[MacGuffin]

Has anyone seen Bava's Kidnapped (AKA Rabid Dogs) yet?

I thought I'd seen all of his best stuff, but I was wrong. That movie is absolutely amazing (even in its unfinished form).Yeah, it is pretty great. Filthier-feeling than most Bava movies too.

[Ezee E]

No way?
Effective though.

[number8]

No way?

I pointed that out right below your original post.

[Dukefrukem]

I pointed that out right below your original post.

Twitter lingo confuses me sometimes. RT this and respond to that, i can't tell who's saying what.

[MadMan]

I gotta say, the idea of turning into Pennywise is a bit terrifying, yes.

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah, it is pretty great. Filthier-feeling than most Bava movies too.


That's partly why I enjoyed it so much. Twitch of the Death Nerve is probably the only one that comes close.

Normally, I'd instantly side with Argento in the debate, but between Black Sabbath, Blood and Black Lace, Planet of the Vampires, Twitch of the Death Nerve, and Kidnapped, I'd say Bava's diversity slightly edges out Argento's stuff.

But don't quote me on that, 'cause I still love 'em both.

[MacGuffin]

I'd say Bava's diversity slightly edges out Argento's stuff.

I agree that they're two masters of their craft (even if Bava has made some clunkers), but with Argento, the only film I consider anywhere near flawless is Suspiria, which really feels like the colossal behemoth of his career, both canonically and artistically. With Bava however, I'd say he has two movies like that—Black Sunday and Twitch of the Death Nerve. Using a slightly weighted Cahiers scale (**** - unmistakable masterpiece, *** - recommended viewing, ** - average fare, * - bad, No stars - awful):

Argento:

Deep Red - ***
Suspiria - ****
Tenebrae - ***
Phenomena - ***
Opera - **
The Stendhal Syndrome - ***
Pelts - **

Bava:

Black Sunday [aka The Mask of Satan] - ****
The Girl Who Knew Too Much - ***
Black Sabbath - ***
Blood and Black Lace - ***
The Whip and the Body - *
Kill, Baby, Kill... - *** (maybe four, need to re-watch)
Danger: Diabolik - ***
Five Dolls for an August Moon - No stars (he only did it for the $; Fenech can't save this)
Twitch of the Death Nerve [aka A Bay of Blood] - ****
Rabid Dogs - ***

Still some major blind spots, but I feel like I have a very good understanding of how they generally operate (of course, they're never really predictable).

[megladon8]

Wow, it's pretty cool that you love Bay of Blood so much, MacGuffin.

I like it for sure, but for me it's nowhere near the mastery of Black Sunday, Blood and Black Lace, or even Black Sabbath.

The final short in Black Sabbath is genuinely chilling.

[MacGuffin]

Have they come out with a better release for Blood and Black Lace since the VCI?