Sangre, cuchillos, y tetas --- Horror Film Discussion [Archive] - Page 11

Spun Lepton

03-03-2010, 08:51 PM

Dead Snow is an exercise in frustration. Where films like Shaun of the Dead and Dead Alive created likeable and relatively believable characters, Dead Snow is content with flat characters, cut from a second-rate slasher. The story goes nowhere and by the end it feels like 90 minutes of padding. The tone of the movie was all over the board, one moment they want to be tragic and serious, and the very next they want to be WaCkY and goofy.

Fanboy Syndrome was also in full effect, much like Cabin Fever. Entire scenes were constructed for no other reason than to pay homage to other, better zombie movies.

One piss-poor actor had a stupid grin on his face for the entire time, too.

megladon8

03-04-2010, 12:26 AM

Glad you were uber disappointed with Dead Snow, Spun, because both Jen and I thought it was complete crap.

What an utter bore, and when the payoff finally comes, it's lame, lame, lame.

MadMan

03-04-2010, 05:10 AM

UGH. Hate that stupid movie. I liked it OK when it was in the theater, and I was 15, but these days ... ugh, just terrible. It's like a Dollar-Store version of The Goonies, with Universal Monsters mixed in. Frankenstein's Monster was the most annoying of the bunch, spewing stupid 80s catchphrases left and right ... ugggh. Not to mention the kids were nothing more than irritating. UGH. Hate this movie.Killjoy :P

Its great dumb fun, gloriously cheesy of course as are most 80s movies.

No, I don't like The Goonies, either. Liked it better than this tripe, though.That explains everything :| And I actually watched The Goonies when I was a teenager, so one can't chock it up to me having found childhood memories of that movie.

bac0n

03-06-2010, 01:43 AM

So, I watched Ong Bak 2 last night. I wouldn't mention this movie in an actually horror movie thread, but for the fact that IT'S SCARY HOW AWESOME THIS MOVIE IS@@@@!!%~

thoughts?

Spun Lepton

03-06-2010, 01:43 AM

So, I watched Ong Bak 2 last night. I wouldn't mention this movie in an actually horror movie thread, but for the fact that IT'S SCARY HOW AWESOME THIS MOVIE IS@@@@!!%~

thoughts?

You're drunk, aren't you? :)

Rowland

03-06-2010, 09:23 AM

I thought Ong Bak 2 was pretty boring.

Ezee E

03-06-2010, 04:25 PM

How does Ong Bak 2 compare to the other Jaa's?

Grouchy

03-06-2010, 07:52 PM

For years I've had a comic-book adaptation of Kenneth Branagh's Frankenstein and as a kid, it was my first contact with the story, even before reading the novel. But I had never watched the actual film until now. I gotta say, it was kind of funny seeing John Cleese act that serious. I think it's a good film, but excessively melodramatic and the style is too frantic - it works against the story.

The Mike

03-07-2010, 12:02 AM

I think it's a good film, but excessively melodramatic and the style is too frantic - it works against the story.

This is a fantastic assessment. Good call.

bac0n

03-08-2010, 02:45 PM

How does Ong Bak 2 compare to the other Jaa's?

The only other Jaa I have seen was Ong Bak 1. That and that one super long take from the Protectererer where Jaa fights his way through an entire hotel.

That being said, it's more of the same. cliche ridden plot - child whose parents are murdered, saved by wise old karate master, raised into human weapon, vows revenge on those who killed his family. Rowland's right, it is kinda boring on account of it having nothing that we haven't seen a thousand times before.

The thing that (to me) saved Ong Bak 1 from being completely forgettable was the speed and brutality of Jaa's Muay Thai strikes, but in this film, Jaa is a Kung Fu and weapons master - nary any Muay Thai to be had here, which was disappointing. The result is a run-of-the-mill martial arts actioner - this movie has basically nothing to do with Ong Bak 1.

Scar

03-08-2010, 05:49 PM

Bac0n, you need to come over and watch The Protector. And drag punk sucker, too.

Ezee E

03-08-2010, 10:30 PM

Bac0n, you need to come over and watch The Protector. And drag punk sucker, too.
Yeah, The Protector is pretty amazing as far as the fight scenes go. The superlong one is just one of the many good ones. Possibly the best in the movie, but it's close.

Rowland

03-17-2010, 08:27 PM

Dead & Messed Up

03-17-2010, 10:39 PM

No activity around here in over a week, huh?

Stuart Gordon's The Pit and the Pendulum is available on Netflix Instant View, and I've decided on a whim to watch it today with almost no expectations, since so few have even the seen the movie (nobody scored it for his consensus thread). I hope to report back with positive thoughts.

Ooh. I saw that too. I'll have to watch it too, so I can have my inevitable respectful disagreement with you.

:pritch:

Seriously though, I'm very curious to watch it.

D_Davis

03-17-2010, 10:44 PM

It's OK.

Rowland

03-18-2010, 09:33 PM

It's OK.Yeah, that sounds about right. The first act is its strongest (the opening scene is a howler), but it begins to spin its wheels after a while and the climax feels like a squandered opportunity, though the titular sequence is quite amusing. It's really Lance Henriksen's show, and he makes the most of it.

Scar

03-18-2010, 10:21 PM

Currently watch Dracula 2000. Not horrible, at least not yet.

Scar

03-18-2010, 11:38 PM

Currently watch Dracula 2000. Not horrible, at least not yet.

w00t, I was right:

Dracula = Judas

D_Davis

03-18-2010, 11:41 PM

It's really Lance Henriksen's show, and he makes the most of it.

Easily the most (only?) memorable thing from the film.

Scar

03-18-2010, 11:50 PM

Well, it wasn't a steaming pile of shit. Just a 'meh' movie.

megladon8

03-21-2010, 07:34 PM

The House of the Devil was good...but not all I was expecting.

There are some moments of incredible tension and creepiness, but overall I just wasn't as "wow'd" by it as I was hoping I'd be.

Needs a rewatch for sure.

MadMan

03-23-2010, 11:30 PM

The Crazies remake was surprisingly well done, and it was better than the original, although granted Romero's effort was one of his lesser movies. Although I take some issues with what happened in the last act, I was greatly amused throughout seeing as the whole thing was set in a small town in Iowa (fictional, of course) that was near by Cedar Rapids. Wahoo.

Rowland

03-25-2010, 07:02 PM

From Beyond doesn't have the same level of emotional resonance or cohesive thematic texture as Re-Animator, but it's clear that Gordon honed his directorial chops between the two films, as From Beyond is a more striking, dynamic cinematic experience, and holy shit are its effects gruesomely effective. Also, this film strikes me as a truer Lovecraft adaptation, and what's more, it seems an obvious precursor to Barker's probably-superior Hellraiser.

Rowland

03-25-2010, 09:42 PM

Anyone see Blood Creek? I know it's Schumacher, but the trailer is pretty badass, and the reviews from the few who have seen the damn thing are surprisingly solid.Oops.

Philosophe_rouge

03-26-2010, 06:04 AM

MadMan

03-26-2010, 07:46 AM

i really liked it. I loved the ending.Don't get me wrong-I did like the ending. Its just that if the fictional town of Ogden Marsh is nearby my hometown of Cedar Rapids, then its also nearby Palo Nuclear Power Plant. If the government dropped a nuke on any town nearby, the whole Midwest-Iowa included, of course-would be toast. Heh. Plus in the credits Bruce Aune, a local KCRG newscaster, makes an appearance, which rocks. My friend, who used to do camera work for KCRG, helped tape that moment for the movie.

I posted some further thoughts on your blog, of course-especially about the car wash scene. Maybe I'll finally write that review of it once I finish uploading a bunch more reviews from my endless backlog.

Grouchy

03-26-2010, 05:53 PM

I realize it's been very long since I'd last seen a Horror movie. But I made a nice return to form with The Entity, which is somewhat unique both in theme and structure. Apparently, it's based on real events with a lot more seriousness than something like Amytiville Horror. Barbara Hershey gives a great central performance as a mother repeteadly harassed - and even raped - by poltergeists. And the movie, while deeply disturbing, does not so much aim to scare as to raise a series of questions about the paranormal and the psychological. It's really worth watching. As a side bonus, the poltergeist special effects by the Stan Winston team are so good than in at least one instance I was left scratching my head as to how they could've done that.

I'm talking about the nipple sucking scene. It turns out it was done with concentrated air.

The Mike

03-26-2010, 10:38 PM

Don't get me wrong-I did like the ending. Its just that if the fictional town of Ogden Marsh is nearby my hometown of Cedar Rapids, then its also nearby Palo Nuclear Power Plant. If the government dropped a nuke on any town nearby, the whole Midwest-Iowa included, of course-would be toast. Heh. Plus in the credits Bruce Aune, a local KCRG newscaster, makes an appearance, which rocks. My friend, who used to do camera work for KCRG, helped tape that moment for the movie.

I posted some further thoughts on your blog, of course-especially about the car wash scene. Maybe I'll finally write that review of it once I finish uploading a bunch more reviews from my endless backlog.Yeah, I looked at the Iowa connections and silliness of it too. But it was fun enough.

megladon8

03-31-2010, 05:44 PM

Dead & Messed Up

03-31-2010, 07:55 PM

Candyman is good, not great. Could have been so much more, but falters.

Tony Todd is wonderful, and Virgina Madsen is smart and sexy. I would love to have heard Todd's voice in the theatre - apparently the work done to make him sound God-like in theatrical viewings was really something.

Bah!

It's lovely, elegant horror. A few too many details regarding his legend, and the too-traditional epilogue feels unworthy, but otherwise, awesomeness.

Now that you mention it, Tony Todd as the Voice of God would be incredible casting.

megladon8

04-01-2010, 12:29 AM

Bah!

It's lovely, elegant horror. A few too many details regarding his legend, and the too-traditional epilogue feels unworthy, but otherwise, awesomeness.

Now that you mention it, Tony Todd as the Voice of God would be incredible casting.

What did you find "elegant" about the film? I found both its dialogue and visual story-telling quite clunky.

There are some horrifically jumpy edits and cuts, and some of the film's most interesting ideas (like Madsen's character being a reincarnation of sorts) are made side-notes for a more slasherific approach.

Felt like the movie could have been a dreamlike, existential nightmare, but opted to attempt to make Candyman the next Freddy or Jason. Which is certainly appropriate in some ways considering the film's look at folklore and peoples' inherent fascination with urban legends and "boogeymen", but again, I found this one of the least interesting aspects of the story.

Winston*

04-01-2010, 12:40 AM

Bernard Rose has the weirdest filmography.

Dead & Messed Up

04-01-2010, 01:39 AM

What did you find "elegant" about the film? I found both its dialogue and visual story-telling quite clunky.

There are some horrifically jumpy edits and cuts, and some of the film's most interesting ideas (like Madsen's character being a reincarnation of sorts) are made side-notes for a more slasherific approach.

Felt like the movie could have been a dreamlike, existential nightmare, but opted to attempt to make Candyman the next Freddy or Jason. Which is certainly appropriate in some ways considering the film's look at folklore and peoples' inherent fascination with urban legends and "boogeymen", but again, I found this one of the least interesting aspects of the story.

Much of the elegance came from the amazing score by Phillip Glass and Tony Todd's regality. His coats and voice and stature are commanding, an entirely different way of presenting a "slasher" killer.

Madsen's character is a proxy for the original, for sure, but I don't remember her being a literal reincarnation. Her similarity is convenient and poetic, for sure.

There are many times when the film achieves that. I remember the opening credits, her first investigation of the urban setting, and the enormous pyre at the end of the film. Certainly her first brush with Candyman. I don't know that Rose and Barker intended to make him a slasher in that mold; seems that they're more interested in expanding the notion of what a slasher is, what a ghost is, why someone like that would kill the way he does.

Part of all this comes from my fascination with the way that Candyman precedes the meta-horror self-legitimizing of films like New Nightmare and In the Mouth of Madness. They're all touching on this fascinating idea of horror as a construct of the reader, simultaneously exposing the exploitation of such images and their necessity. Candyman may be the most basic, since it's about a killer who kills to be remembered. He's intentionally pushing for legendary status; his survival depends on it. This is more interesting to me than the standard slashing-as-vengeance model for Freddy and Jason.

I also love the way the film quietly touches on social issues, keeping its focus on the story while allowing urban decay, segregation, and class disparity to seep into the margins.

I may have to watch it again, though, with my eye on the editing and composition.

Raiders

04-01-2010, 02:41 AM

Bernard Rose has the weirdest filmography.

He's obsessed with Tolstoy.

I like Candyman, but his real masterpiece is Paperhouse. Remarkable film I wish more people had seen.

megladon8

04-01-2010, 05:50 AM

Much of the elegance came from the amazing score by Phillip Glass and Tony Todd's regality. His coats and voice and stature are commanding, an entirely different way of presenting a "slasher" killer.

Madsen's character is a proxy for the original, for sure, but I don't remember her being a literal reincarnation. Her similarity is convenient and poetic, for sure.

I thought her looking at the portraits of Candyman's lover (which look exactly like Madsen) while he says in voice-over "it was always you, Helen" made it pretty clear she was some kind of reincarnation of the original woman.

Dead & Messed Up

04-01-2010, 06:09 AM

I thought her looking at the portraits of Candyman's lover (which look exactly like Madsen) while he says in voice-over "it was always you, Helen" made it pretty clear she was some kind of reincarnation of the original woman.

Ah. I took it as an indication that she was destined to go through everything she suffered.

Rowland

04-01-2010, 06:57 AM

Ranking Barker adaptations, just because:

Hellraiser > Candyman > Hellbound: Hellraiser II > The Midnight Meat Train > Lord of Illusions

Bosco B Thug

04-01-2010, 07:38 AM

He's obsessed with Tolstoy.

I like Candyman, but his real masterpiece is Paperhouse. Remarkable film I wish more people had seen. Its constant DVD-less-ness has been leaving me disgruntled for a while now.

It probably doesn't come off in my ratings, but these old Cronenbergs have been leaving me a bit underwhelmed. They're good, and bold visions under Cronenberg's competent hands, but I'm not feeling I'm on my way to becoming a Cronenberg enthusiast. Eh, you win some, you lose some. I'm very hopeful about a Dead Ringers re-visit.

Rowland

04-01-2010, 08:39 AM

Honestly, there are times when I consider Naked Lunch my favorite Cronenberg, which happens to be Dan Sallitt's favorite as well. ;)

B-side

04-01-2010, 08:41 AM

Dead Ringers currently sits in my top 10. Irons is incredible in it.

Qrazy

04-01-2010, 08:45 AM

Honestly, there are times when I consider Naked Lunch my favorite Cronenberg, which happens to be Dan Sallitt's favorite as well. ;)

It's not my favorite but it's probably top five for me. I don't understand the hate it gets from some crowds.

B-side

04-01-2010, 08:45 AM

Weller is excellent in Naked Lunch.

soitgoes...

04-01-2010, 08:46 AM

Honestly, there are times when I consider Naked Lunch my favorite Cronenberg, which happens to be Dan Sallitt's favorite as well. ;)
I would consider it my favorite of Cronenberg's films.

Bosco B Thug

04-01-2010, 08:54 AM

Honestly, there are times when I consider Naked Lunch my favorite Cronenberg, which happens to be Dan Sallitt's favorite as well. ;) Great. Accounting-for-Dan-Sallitt's-taste WIN.

Cronenberg's films start opening up when he starts forgetting about narrative, so I may agree with the NL favor, if I remember Naked Lunch right.

Raiders

04-01-2010, 12:39 PM

I disliked Naked Lunch years ago. Haven't revisited in a long while. I love me some Cronenberg though. Other than that one, he hasn't made a film I haven't liked.

Dukefrukem

04-02-2010, 02:15 PM

Rowland

04-02-2010, 10:44 PM

I was in a shitty mood earlier, so I decided to make myself feel better with an impulsive spending spree. My catch:

Torso
Four Flies on Grey Velvet
The House by the Cemetery
The Devil's Rain
Tourist Trap

Spun Lepton

04-02-2010, 10:51 PM

The House by the Cemetery
Tourist Trap

Pulpy, b-movie goodness, both of these.

Rowland

04-02-2010, 10:53 PM

Check out this Splice Trailer (http://paralleluniverse.msn.com/video-hub/?mkt=en-us&fg=MsnEntertainment_puVidHubPl ayer&vid=13d6cb48-df41-4d16-907d-1b6fdd5b4f77). I like that chick from Dawn of the Dead remake...

Reminds me of Species That trailer isn't very promising, but I liked Natali's previous efforts Cube and Cypher a lot, so I hope this turns out good, or at the very least better than the lousy Species.

Rowland

04-02-2010, 10:54 PM

Pulpy, b-movie goodness, both of these.Absolutely, though I'd say the same for all those movies.

Grouchy

04-03-2010, 05:15 AM

http://www.videojulieta.com.ar/imagespelis/7380_pic1.jpg

I was very fortunate to catch a movie I'd always heard about but had never had a chance to see. It's called Obras Maestras del Terror (Masterworks of Horror) and it's one of the few memorable Argentine Horror films, from 1960, and starring a mythic Spanish Horror actor, Narciso Ibáñez Menta - whose son directed the awesome Who Can Kill a Child?. What makes this film even more unique is that it adapts three Edgar Allan Poe tales (The Facts in the Case of Mr. Valdemar / The Cask of Amontillado / The Tell-Tale Heart) some years before those kind of portmanteau movies became an international staple.

Now, all this I knew before actually watching the movie, but what I didn't know was how good it actually was. For one thing, Ibáñez Menta is a much more serious actor than Vincent Price and he projects menace without overacting a bit, creating three completely different characters for this movie. The framing sequence is a bit silly - a maid waits for house guests in an old house during a storm, finds a book of Poe stories. From there on, the scripts for the three stories show not only respect for the source material but unexpected intelligence in creating a meaningful background for the short stories that actually adds unexpected layers to them.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6KAWcXP_hmI/SYmIC0sCyzI/AAAAAAAABWA/tN0IjTKMmB0/s400/obras_maestras_terror_01.jpg

For example, I thought it was brilliant how, in The Tell-Tale Heart, the victim of the crime is a watchmaker, so that when the murderer hears his heart beating, it mirrors the constant tic-tac sound that resonates throughout the house in the entire short. That famous literary sequence of suspense is heightened on screen by a delirious, in crescendo visual montage and by several jump cuts - a technique that, as far as I know, was "invented" by Godard in Breathless this very same year. The Corman Poe films are charming Gothic extravaganzas, but they never even aimed for that kind of visual poetry and innovation. Like those films, this one is clearly a low-budget movie, but with a lot more finesse involved and much better performances.

Really, I couldn't be more surprised and happy at how good this cult film actually is. It has become my favorite Poe adaptation, and it has made me want to see Ibáñez Menta in all his other Horror performances. It's a relatively famous film, yet the DVD is a recording of a projection of film that has seen better days. I'm not sure, but I don't think this film has ever gone through a proper restoration process, which is very sad and shows how sloppy Argentina's governments have been with its cultural riches. It should be restored and distributed worldwide so that it can claim a proper spot in the history of Horror cinema.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6KAWcXP_hmI/SYlmlT3HuzI/AAAAAAAABVg/AB2GVI-G7c8/s400/obras_maestras_terror_04.jpg

megladon8

04-04-2010, 08:07 PM

I freaking love Bava. So, so much.

Rowland

04-04-2010, 08:51 PM

I freaking love Bava. So, so much.Black Sabbath is amazing, probably one of his most undervalued efforts. Heck, I'd take it over Black Sunday almost any day.

megladon8

04-05-2010, 01:30 AM

Black Sabbath is amazing, probably one of his most undervalued efforts. Heck, I'd take it over Black Sunday almost any day.

Not me, but I do love it.

Black Sunday - 10
Black Sabbath - 9
Blood and Black Lace - 9
Kill, Baby...Kill! - 8
Danger: Diabolik! - 8
5 Dolls For an August Moon - 6.5
Bay of Blood - 6
Baron Blood - 7.5
Four Times That Night - 6
Lisa and the Devil - 7

Rowland

04-05-2010, 07:53 AM

Baron Blood - 7.5Wow, that's unexpected. I'd say Baron Blood is eaaasily the worst I've seen by him.

Black Sunday - 6.5
Black Sabbath - 9.0
The Whip and the Body - 7.0
Blood and Black Lace - 8.0
Kill, Baby... Kill! - 8.5
Danger: Diabolik - 8.0
5 Dolls for the August Moon - 7.5
Hatchet for the Honeymoon - 7.5
Bay of Blood - 8.0
Baron Blood - 4.0
Lisa and the Devil - 8.0

Boner M

04-05-2010, 08:37 AM

Black Sunday - 8
Black Sabbath - 7 (7 + 5 + 9 / 3)
Blood and Black Lace - 7.5
Planet of the Vampires - 5
Kill, Baby... Kill! - 6.5
Danger: Diabolik - 7.5
Hatchet for the Honeymoon - 7.5
Bay of Blood - 6.5
Shock II - 4.5

Dukefrukem

04-05-2010, 02:24 PM

That trailer isn't very promising, but I liked Natali's previous efforts Cube and Cypher a lot, so I hope this turns out good, or at the very least better than the lousy Species.

I hope to god it's better than Species.

megladon8

04-05-2010, 07:53 PM

Black Sunday - 6.5

Wow, that's unexpected. I'd say Baron Blood is eaaasily the worst I've seen by him.

Same to you! Black Sunday is, to me, easily Bava's best. One of the best horror films of all time.

Spun Lepton

04-05-2010, 08:18 PM

Black Sunday - 9/10
Black Sabbath - 7/10
Hatchet for the Honeymoon - 7/10
Shock - 7/10
Blood and Black Lace - 6/10
Bay of Blood - 6/10
Lisa and the Devil - 6/10
Baron Blood - 5/10
Whip and the Body - 5/10

Derek

04-05-2010, 08:23 PM

Black Sunday - 6.0
Blood & Black Lace - 7.0
Kill Baby...Kill - 7.5

Really wanna see more from him. I'll check out Black Sabbath and Danger: Diabolik next.

megladon8

04-05-2010, 08:29 PM

Black Sunday - 6.0
Blood & Black Lace - 7.0
Kill Baby...Kill - 7.5

Really wanna see more from him. I'll check out Black Sabbath and Danger: Diabolik next.

Danger: Diabolik! was one of my big college "hanging out with the guys" movies.

On the surface, it's a so-bad-it's-hilarious spy movie. Like if the people behind the Adam West "Batman" TV show were to make a Bond movie.

And it's also a great time capsule of '60s culture and politics.

megladon8

04-05-2010, 11:09 PM

Plus there aren't many other movies where a master thief steals millions of dollars just so he and his girlfriend can spread it all over their bed and have sex on it.

Or where a line like this is uttered: "With this suit, I could swim through the center of the sun!"

MadMan

04-06-2010, 12:48 AM

Bava that I've viewed:

*Black Sunday (1960)-81
*Blood and Black Lace (1964)-90
*Planet of the Vampires (1965)-71
*Kill Baby, Kill! (1966)-75

Right now I have The Girl Who Knew Too Much on hand, and I only made it through the first segment of Black Sabbath-but I enjoyed it. Eventually I'll get to some of his other movies as well, as I've liked all that he's done so far. Planet of the Vampires, which inspired Scott's Alien, is probably my favorite of his.

Rowland

04-06-2010, 07:45 AM

The Girl Who Knew Too MuchOh yeah, I forgot that I've seen this one as well. I'd give it a 7.5.

Raiders

04-08-2010, 12:43 AM

Kill, Baby... Kill! [9.5]
Blood and Black Lace [8.5]
The Whip and the Body [8.0]
Black Sunday [7.5]
Danger: Diabolik [7.5]
Black Sabbath [7.0]
Planet of the Vampires [6.5]
Bay of Blood [6.0]
Baron Blood [4.5]

megladon8

04-11-2010, 02:54 AM

Oh my god Shocker is a piece of shit.

Dead & Messed Up

04-11-2010, 06:22 AM

Oh my god Shocker is a piece of shit.

Bwahahaha!

You have to admit, there's something amazing about the villain chasing the hero through different channels. It's like fucking Looney Tunes or something.

Rowland

04-11-2010, 08:18 AM

You have to admit, there's something amazing about the villain chasing the hero through different channels. It's like fucking Looney Tunes or something.Sounds like that shitty early '90s comedy with John Ritter, Jeffery Jones, and Eugene Levy, where the parents are zapped into the television from Hell or something, directed by uber-hackmeister Peter Hyams if I recall correctly.

Raiders

04-11-2010, 01:11 PM

Dead & Messed Up

04-11-2010, 05:39 PM

Sounds like that shitty early '90s comedy with John Ritter, Jeffery Jones, and Eugene Levy, where the parents are zapped into the television from Hell or something, directed by uber-hackmeister Peter Hyams if I recall correctly.

Yeah, I remember seeing promos for Stay Tuned as a child and thinking, "Huh?"

Side-question: who's a bigger hack? Peter Hyams or Steve Miner?

Dead & Messed Up

04-11-2010, 06:22 PM

Just watched Dead Snow. Nothing very distinct, apart from a few effective shots, and the director's uncommon interest in yanking intestines. The best moments crib from better zombie films, and the characters' density isn't tempered by much of any personality. The film also gives little thought to the geography of the story - one minute a character falls off a cliff far from the main setting, and the next she's right back at the cabin.

megladon8

04-11-2010, 06:48 PM

Dead Snow was one of the most disappointing horror films I saw last year.

I had expected so much fun from it. I figured it would be bad, but fun bad, you know?

No...it was just bad. Boring, poorly paced, poorly written crap.

Rowland

04-11-2010, 08:31 PM

Yeah, I remember seeing promos for Stay Tuned as a child and thinking, "Huh?"Oh, don't get me wrong, it's a ripe concept for satiric comedy, that movie was just terrible.

Bosco B Thug

04-12-2010, 01:20 AM

I rather enjoyed Shocker to be honest with you. Yeah, it's pretty damn silly and shoddy, it's still pretty entertaining and occasionally interesting. At least Craven makes sure to succeed or fail epically, which this movie does both.
Yeah, Shocker rates pretty low, but I think back on it with fondness. How committed to randomness could Craven get? A ghost girlfriend and the entire high school football team serving as deus ex machina devices? Why?

Dukefrukem

04-12-2010, 02:30 AM

Oh, don't get me wrong, it's a ripe concept for satiric comedy, that movie was just terrible.

Stay Tuned is fuckin awesome. I must have watched that movie 50 times as a kid.

Philosophe_rouge

04-12-2010, 06:38 AM

House of the Devil is awesome. That is all.

megladon8

04-12-2010, 06:46 PM

House of the Devil is awesome. That is all.

One thing leads to another...

hey it's ethan

04-13-2010, 02:42 AM

Spun Lepton

04-13-2010, 02:47 AM

I gotta say, Ghosts of Mars is a totally enjoyable B-movie.It's basically Assault on Precint 13 in space and I couldn't be happier about that. It's too bad Carpenter went into exile/director jail after this, because the personality he brings to the horror/action genre is so missing these days; I mean what other movie would have Ice Cube wielding dual Uzis?

That movie would've been so much better had it not been lit like a comedy. Although, I don't think I would've been anything but disappointed. It was just ... too goofy at times. And I tend to hold Carpenter to pretty lofty expectations. :D

Spun Lepton

04-13-2010, 02:55 AM

Oh my god Shocker is a piece of shit.

Here's a tip, any time you're going to watch a Wes Craven movie that isn't Nightmare on Elm Street or Scream, just assume it's going to suck. You'll save yourself some energy that way. :)

Have you seen Deadly Friend, yet? :D

megladon8

04-13-2010, 03:16 AM

Here's a tip, any time you're going to watch a Wes Craven movie that isn't Nightmare on Elm Street or Scream, just assume it's going to suck. You'll save yourself some energy that way. :)

Have you seen Deadly Friend, yet? :D

We tried to watch Deadly Friend the other night and I couldn't get through it.

I think you're right, Spun. I have yet to see anything Craven's done outside those two franchises that was worth much of anything.

MadMan

04-13-2010, 03:16 AM

I'll defend Last House on the Left (1972) and The Serpent and the Rainbow (1988), although the former is good while the latter is merely solid. Plus Scream 2 was highly entertaining, last act problems aside-I should really try and revisit it and Scream together. Maybe I'll get around to also viewing The Hills Have Eyes, New Nightmare and Red Eye.

hey it's ethan

04-13-2010, 04:01 AM

The People Under The Stairs is dope.

Rowland

04-13-2010, 04:27 AM

I mean what other movie would have Ice Cube wielding dual Uzis?XXX: State of the Union?

dmk

04-13-2010, 08:14 AM

I gotta say, Ghosts of Mars is a totally enjoyable B-movie.It's basically Assault on Precint 13 in space and I couldn't be happier about that. It's too bad Carpenter went into exile/director jail after this, because the personality he brings to the horror/action genre is so missing these days; I mean what other movie would have Ice Cube wielding dual Uzis?

Yes.

It made my Top 10 Most-Important Films of the Decade for a reason...

Rowland

04-13-2010, 01:10 PM

What seemed an artful trashterpiece some decade ago is now, besides a few solid instances of gore and some elegant camerawork amidst all the flat images and ugly zooms, a tedious, drab, ridiculous wreck, a warning not to always trust my younger self's instincts when blind purchasing dvds on a whim. I could see myself busting out The House by the Cemetery at a substance-fueled party for a lark, but otherwise, this now ranks pretty easily as the worst Fulci I've seen, unless the others which I liked to varying degrees don't hold up either. Best moment? The maggot-filled Dr. Freudstein holding Bob's squeaky-voiced head up to the cellar door as the father attempts to axe his way in from the other side, reminding of a similar moment from Fulci's superior City of the Living Dead.

Boner M

04-13-2010, 03:30 PM

Craven begins and ends with New Nightmare, IMO.

D_Davis

04-13-2010, 03:39 PM

What seemed an artful trashterpiece some decade ago is now, besides a few solid instances of gore and some elegant camerawork amidst all the flat images and ugly zooms, a tedious, drab, ridiculous wreck, a warning not to always trust my younger self's instincts when blind purchasing dvds on a whim.

This perfectly sums up every Fulci film I've seen. I really don't get this guy's cult following. His films are the worst of the worst, because they are all so dreadfully dull and boring, completely lacking in life. Fulci reminds me of someone who work at the CMV in California, and not someone who got to make movies for a living.

D_Davis

04-13-2010, 03:40 PM

bac0n

04-13-2010, 03:53 PM

Oh my god Shocker is a piece of shit.

WRONG.

No movie with a line like this barcalounger is gonna kick your ass! could ever be classified as a "piece of shit".

Piece of AWESOME is more like it.

Raiders

04-13-2010, 04:17 PM

I'd say the Craven good-to-awful ratio is close to 50/50. He ain't got much style, but he does manage to typically churn out films that have at least somewhere within an interesting nuance.

Good to Great
Last House on the Left
Red Eye
New Nightmare
A Nightmare on Elm Street
Scream

Middling or Interesting Failure
People Under the Stairs
Shocker
The Hills Have Eyes
Deadly Friend
Serpent and the Rainbow

Crap
Scream 2
Swamp Thing
Scream 3
Cursed

I have avoided Vampire in Brooklyn which I am confident would wind up in the last group. I'll admit it is a little discomforting that I have seen so many of his films. Do still want to see Deadly Blessing.

Russ

04-13-2010, 06:19 PM

I'd say the Craven good-to-awful ratio is close to 50/50.

Do still want to see Deadly Blessing.

Deadly Blessing is an interesting failure, but certainly interesting if for no other reason that originating the prototype (near as I can tell) for the "thing that comes up between the girl's legs in the bathtub" sequence, from which Craven proceeds to rip himself off to great effect in an almost identical sequence in Nightmare on Elm Street.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7785/deadlyblessingbath.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7420/noes4.jpg

Fwiw, the sequence in Deadly Blessing is a lot creepier.

MadMan

04-13-2010, 07:07 PM

We'll be seeing that scene redone again when the A Nightmare on Elm Street remake comes out :|

Rowland

04-13-2010, 08:30 PM

Meh, New Nightmare is a neat concept undone by Craven's inability to flesh it out in an imaginative manner or execute it with much flair. Also, the kid actor is worse than the one from Phantom Menace.

Spun Lepton

04-13-2010, 08:46 PM

hey it's ethan

04-13-2010, 11:19 PM

XXX: State of the Union?
I'll rephrase:

What other movie would have Ice Cube wielding dual Uzis...at zombie ghosts?

megladon8

04-13-2010, 11:42 PM

Wes Craven...

The Last House on the Left - 3
A Nightmare on Elm Street - 10
The Serpent and the Rainbow - 6
Shocker - 4 (my rating of 2 was a total exaggeration, but yeah, it's crap)
The People Under the Stairs - 7
New Nightmare - 6.5
Vampire in Brooklyn - 2 (this one actually deserves it)
Scream - 7.5

I've seen the two Scream sequels but it's been far too long for me to rate them.

He's pretty much based his entire career on the success of one movie, without ever again coming close to its quality.

hey it's ethan

04-13-2010, 11:50 PM

I think that Alexandre Aja's remake of The Hills Have Eyes is far superior to Craven's original.

megladon8

04-13-2010, 11:53 PM

I think that Alexandre Aja's remake of The Hills Have Eyes is far superior to Craven's original.

From what I hear about the original, though, this isn't a particularly impressive feat.

hey it's ethan

04-14-2010, 12:06 AM

From what I hear about the original, though, this isn't a particularly impressive feat.
Yeah, not a big of Craven's film; Aja's was so brutal that I actually found it exhausting, but I appreciated that about it.

D_Davis

04-14-2010, 01:27 AM

The remake also has an amazing score by tomandandy - one of my favorites.

Spun Lepton

04-14-2010, 01:52 AM

We're doing Wes Craven today, eh? Okay.

The Last House on the Left -- 1/10
The Hills Have Eyes -- 4/10
Swamp Thing -- 3/10
A Nightmare on Elm Street -- 8/10
The Hills Have Eyes 2 -- 2/10
Deadly Friend -- 2/10
Shocker -- 5/10
Serpent and the Rainbow -- 5/10
The People Under the Stairs -- 6/10
New Nightmare -- 5/10
Vampire in Brooklyn -- 3/10
Scream -- 7/10

megladon8

04-14-2010, 02:31 AM

The Last House on the Left -- 1/10

Thank you.

That movie is unbearable.

Dead & Messed Up

04-15-2010, 08:31 PM

I posted a longer review of Dead Snow on the ol' blog. (http://horrorfilms101.blogspot.com/) Excerpt.

...These are not problems unique to this premise - horror films have been crutching on such idiocies for decades, and it's becoming less and less excusable. They cast a shadow over Dead Snow, keeping it from becoming its own unique tale. And yet, I can hear the response from the film's makers and supporters: hey, stupid, it's just a film about Nazi zombies. What I don't understand is why we should hold our Nazi zombie films to such low standards.

Spun Lepton

04-15-2010, 08:52 PM

I posted a longer review of Dead Snow on the ol' blog. (http://horrorfilms101.blogspot.com/) Excerpt.

It's not just that it wallows in horror cliches, it's also the fact that there's no sense of direction for the story. It's the Cabin Fever syndrome: the moment the shit starts to hit the fan, instead of concentrating the story down to 1 or 2 plotlines, it explodes as people go running off into the woods in multiple directions. So, everybody gets their own "mini-plotline" that serves no ultimate purpose but to pad the story out. And holy buckets, Dead Snow is just padding scene after padding scene. And it's not like they hadn't ALREADY set themselves up with something to give them direction: that goddamn box of valuables!

It's also tonally inconsistent. One moment wanting to tug at heartstrings, and the very next wanting to be wacky splatstick.

MadMan

04-16-2010, 05:01 AM

Craven:

Last House on the Left-85
A Nightmare on Elm Street-85
The Serpent and the Rainbow-79
Scream-90
Scream 2-80
Scream 3-73

The only other movies of his I actually want to see are The Hills Have Eyes, New Nightmare, and Red Eye. Maybe I'll check out Deadly Friend...nah.

Today I bought Piranha: 20th Anniversary Special Edition. I'm going to rewatch the movie (I haven't seen it in years-so far its rather goofy fun) and then view it again with the audio commentary. I also grabbed Night of the Creeps, starring Tom "Thrill Me!" Atkins, and is one of the best horror movies I've ever seen. Yes the copy I bought is the Director's Cut-I believe that's the only copy of the movie out on DVD, anyways.

Grouchy

04-16-2010, 05:41 AM

The Hills Have Eyes - 7
Swamp Thing - 5
A Nightmare on Elm Street - 9
The Serpent and the Rainbow - 8
The People Under the Stairs - 7
Scream - 7
Red Eye - 6

Qrazy

04-16-2010, 08:16 AM

I think I've asked this here before, but I'm going to ask again. What are your top ten scariest films? As in they truly unnerve or frighten you.

D_Davis

04-16-2010, 03:27 PM

I think I've asked this here before, but I'm going to ask again. What are your top ten scariest films? As in they truly unnerve or frighten you.

1. Fire in the Sky - didn't sleep for three days after seeing this
2. Jacob's Ladder
3. Paranormal Activity
4. Ringu
5. Inland Empire
6. Rob Zombie's Halloween
7. Il
8. The Descent
9. The Creeper (an episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents)
10. The Dummy (an episode of the Twilight Zone)

Spun Lepton

04-16-2010, 08:51 PM

I think I've asked this here before, but I'm going to ask again. What are your top ten scariest films? As in they truly unnerve or frighten you.

All of these movies scared the crap out of me the first time I saw them, in no specific order:

As a kid:
John Carpenter's The Thing
Alien
The Exorcist
Poltergeist

As an adult:
Ringu
The Haunting ('63)

Scar

04-16-2010, 09:31 PM

Not a list guy, but here's some that spring to mind:

Alien
The Descent
Blair Witch Project (watched it in an empty dorm)

Dead & Messed Up

04-16-2010, 10:06 PM

Rec was the last one to really have me in breathless suspense, with The Mist, The Descent, and 28 Days Later being others from the past decade.

Night of the Living Dead, The Evil Dead, The Haunting, Jaws, and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre were among the first bunch.

Ezee E

04-16-2010, 10:14 PM

[Rec] and The Descent for the 00's

megladon8

04-16-2010, 11:51 PM

The Changeling terrified me. One of the most effective ghost stories I've ever seen.

Dukefrukem

04-17-2010, 12:13 AM

I think I've asked this here before, but I'm going to ask again. What are your top ten scariest films? As in they truly unnerve or frighten you.

The Decent was the last movie that truly scared the shit out of me, followed by High Tension and Martyrs. But as a kid, the movies I was scared shitless of were;

Gremlins
Fire in the Sky
Nightmare on Elm Street
Blair Witch Project
Return of the Living Dead (i know... but when all the animals came to life in the warehouse, that had a serious effect on me)
Evil Dead

edit: and of course John Carpenters the Thing. Thanks Spun.

megladon8

04-17-2010, 12:14 AM

It's not a horror but you know what movie always scared the living crap out of me when I was a kid?

Return to Oz

That was a very, very twisted movie.

Dukefrukem

04-17-2010, 12:21 AM

It's not a horror but you know what movie always scared the living crap out of me when I was a kid?

Return to Oz

That was a very, very twisted movie.

yeh! Or what about Labyrinth or The Dark Crystal.

megladon8

04-17-2010, 01:00 AM

yeh! Or what about Labyrinth or The Dark Crystal.

I've never seen The Dark Crystal, and Labyrinth I didn't see until I was a teenager.

But yeah, David Bowie's bulge is quite frightening.

Spun Lepton

04-17-2010, 01:03 AM

It's not a horror but you know what movie always scared the living crap out of me when I was a kid?

Return to Oz

That was a very, very twisted movie.

Love that movie.

hey it's ethan

04-17-2010, 05:20 AM

Holy shit; Hannibal is an absolute abomination. Ridley Scott doesn't for one second understand that the screenplay is basically camp and therefore drowns the film with his "exquisite" filmmaking. It's so mind-numbingly dull and the relationship between Clarice and Lecter has zero development. I seriously can't stop thinking about how terrible this film is.

MadMan

04-17-2010, 05:46 AM

Halloween(1978) is still the scariest horror movie I've ever seen. Night of the Living Dead(1968) and Gremlins frightened me when I was younger. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (1974) still scared the shit out of me on a second viewing. Others that would qualify are The Thing (1982), the endings to the first two Friday the 13th's (both insanely effective jump scares), and Jaws.

Non-horror the raptors in the kitchen part of Jurassic Park frightened me when I was a kid. Yikes.

Adam

04-18-2010, 09:05 PM

Scariest non-horror bit for me as a kid was the wheelers from Return to Oz

WM0RFE3QGAU

Spun Lepton

04-18-2010, 09:06 PM

Scariest moment in Return to Oz is in the hall of heads. I never got why the Wheelers were so scary, but I was already watching regular horror movies by then.

7XjC_0lGm0E

Winston*

04-18-2010, 09:24 PM

For me the scariest part of Return of Oz was the desert that turns people into sand. I remember having actual nightmares about that.

MadMan

04-19-2010, 05:59 PM

Um....who the hell made Return to Oz? A derranged drug addict? Goddamn that movie looks messed up.

Grouchy

04-19-2010, 09:06 PM

Um....who the hell made Return to Oz? A derranged drug addict? Goddamn that movie looks messed up.
A deranged drug addict and possibly the most important film editor and sound designer in history, Walter Murch. This is the only movie he directed.

But you're right, I haven't seen it either and those two clips look crazy awesome.

Grouchy

04-20-2010, 06:50 AM

http://moviepatron.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/behind_the_mask69.jpg

Behind the Mask: the Rise of Leslie Vernon looked a lot more promising when it started. I couldn't help comparing it constantly to Man Bites Dog which might have hurt it a little. They're not so similar except for the basic idea of having a documentary crew follow a murderer. Behind the Mask sort of attempts to have a cake and eat it too. It finds a very clever way to spoof (or, more accurately, deconstruct) the slasher genre by showing us a masked killer who has to do a lot of behind-the-scenes hard work to get his scares. But it takes the easy way out by switching too often out of the documentary and into fiction mode so that it ends up being yet another genre spoof in a genre that has a long history of spoofing itself. The scene with both Zelda Rubinstein and Robert Englund in it is memorable, though.

Overall, it's a movie that has a very neat concept and a couple of smart but typical observations in a genre, but it doesn't really amount to anything much.

(I have a horrible flu case so I'm going to take in yet another Horror rental. Don't plan on going to class tomorrow, sleeping is a little uncomfortable right now and I'm a little too annoyed for working).

Rowland

04-20-2010, 06:53 AM

Yeah, I found Behind the Mask underwhelming as well, don't get the hype for that one at all.

Winston*

04-20-2010, 07:38 AM

Behind the Mask lost me as well in the last half hour. I think Man Bites Dog is much worse though.

Philosophe_rouge

04-20-2010, 08:16 AM

I'm too lazy to make a list now, but off the top of my head, The Shining pops up as the scariest I've seen... I had to turn it off, and slept on the floor in my parent's room because of it. Other contenders would probably be Inland Empire, the end of [Rec], The Exorcist (though the novel was FAR scarier, now that got under my skin...), and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Dead & Messed Up

04-20-2010, 06:47 PM

Behind the Mask lost me as well in the last half hour. I think Man Bites Dog is much worse though.

Man Bites Dog is worse, but I was rather fond of Behind the Mask. I suspect a large part of that was Nathan Baesel, whose work as Leslie Mancuso/Vernon nicely blended charisma and psychoses. If nothing else, you gotta admire his work ethic.

Grouchy

04-20-2010, 07:52 PM

No way, Man Bites Dog is a great film. Unquestionably funnier than this one.

megladon8

04-20-2010, 11:32 PM

I enjoy both Leslie Vernon and Man Bites Dog, but the former is unquestionably better.

Raiders

04-21-2010, 01:14 AM

I strongly disliked Man Bites Dog. I probably will never watch Behind the Mask.

Grouchy

04-21-2010, 01:51 AM

... I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think Man Bites Dog makes this one look totally amateurish in every department. Comedy value, main guy's performance, intelligence in how it plays with the audience, even the cinematography and mockumentary tricks.

megladon8

04-21-2010, 02:33 AM

I strongly disliked Man Bites Dog. I probably will never watch Behind the Mask.

I think the comparisons are only skin deep, really.

I would say "don't let your hatred of Man Bites Dog keep you from seeing Behind the Mask" but...I don't know that you'd like Behind the Mask much regardless.

MadMan

04-21-2010, 07:24 AM

I will eventually watch Behind the Mask. But Man Bites Dog is a very good, if disturbing, movie. I should eventually post my review of MBD on my blog-I still need to go through my backlog. If anything, MBD isn't a great movie because the disturbing qualities fall flat near the end, and the second half isn't as good as the first.

Rowland

04-21-2010, 07:31 AM

There's a neat documentary on Netflix Instant called, Not Quite Hollywood. It's about Aussie exploitation from the 60s through the 80s and how it lead to where they are now. Recommended if you haven't seen it..I'll second this recommendation. Watched it last night, found it absolutely invigorating.

The Mike

04-22-2010, 02:16 AM

OK, who's seen Triangle? Wicked cool movie, that one.

megladon8

04-22-2010, 03:16 AM

OK, who's seen Triangle? Wicked cool movie, that one.

Never even heard of it.

Please go on :)

D_Davis

04-22-2010, 03:18 AM

OK, who's seen Triangle? Wicked cool movie, that one.

I've heard really good things. It's on Netflix Streaming, should watch it.

Spun Lepton

04-22-2010, 03:23 AM

So, Hideo Nakata -- J-horror filmmaking guru -- has a "new" horror flick on Netflix Instant called Kaidan, but it doesn't look like a remake of Kaidan from 1964. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0844319/

I'm sure I'll be checking it out one of these days. I'm just happy he hasn't abandoned horror like he suggested he would, once upon a time. :pritch:

megladon8

04-22-2010, 03:25 AM

Dead & Messed Up

04-22-2010, 05:55 AM

Spun Lepton

04-22-2010, 08:42 PM

This kinda makes me want to watch the 1964 flick again. Tremendous picture, that.

I couldn't get into it.

Dead & Messed Up

04-22-2010, 08:57 PM

I couldn't get into it.

Yeah, I know, you have no attention span.

:pritch:

Spun Lepton

04-22-2010, 09:00 PM

Yeah, I know, you have no attention span.

:pritch:

The truth hur

Rowland

04-23-2010, 12:15 PM

Pandorum (Alvart, 2009) **½

Nakedly derivative as fuck (Sunshine meets The Descent meets Fight Club meets Resident Evil etc. etc.), but surprisingly intense, with its unconventionally dark lighting schemes (reminding of the Doom adaptation, only competent), lack of jokey-ness, and willingness to immerse the viewer in the disorientation of its protagonists' amnesia and deliberate unfolding of plot detail. Alvart's direction can be off-puttingly hacky, but he keeps the film moving (it's never less than absorbing) and tonally coherent. There are some fun twists scattered about as well, which reveal the film as maybe not particularly smart, but certainly clever in its limited way. Its inevitable future as a SyFy mainstay should find it an audience, as it may not be particularly proficient in any respect, but it's certainly more solid and likable than its overly derisive critical reception would suggest.

Ezee E

04-23-2010, 01:49 PM

Started watching Triangle, but couldn't get into it. I don't really watch many Direct-To-DVD movies, and this is a good example of why.

Raiders

04-23-2010, 01:58 PM

Started watching Triangle, but couldn't get into it. I don't really watch many Direct-To-DVD movies, and this is a good example of why.

Not really a DTV film. It had a theater run (likely small I guess) in Australia and some horror festival showings. It just didn't secure US theater distribution.

You weren't watching the made-for-TV film with Luke Perry were you?

Dead & Messed Up

04-23-2010, 06:34 PM

Dolan's Cadillac is a surprisingly respectable take on Stephen King's significant Poe homage from Nightmares and Dreamscapes, its success fueled by what is, at heart, a two-person play between victim and villain. Christian Slater plays the titular crime boss, whose human trafficking hits a slight snag when Elizabeth (Emmanuelle Vaugier) witnesses the execution of some unwilling "cargo." His solution - two sticks of C4 in her car - leads to a cold revenge from the woman's husband, the distraught Robinson (Wes Bentley). I admired Bentley's baroque acting choices in P2, and he brings a similar weird energy here. Christian Slater rebounds against Bentley's relative minimalism by looking like the personification of a sneer, waxing endlessly about his "units," offering speeches about the "arc of descent" while pissing. It's the latter conversation that turns the film toward its extended climax, an impressive desert-set one-act. Most interesting, however, is the sequence preceding this, where we learn that even Dolan, awful as he is, may have some limits.

B-

Spun Lepton

04-23-2010, 08:40 PM

Please elaborate on the comment, "off-puttingly hacky."

Spun Lepton

04-23-2010, 10:38 PM

I'm at work right now and I just spoke to somebody working at THE Monroeville Mall. It took every fiber of self-restraint to not start geeking out about Dawn of the Dead. :lol:

D_Davis

04-23-2010, 11:24 PM

You weren't watching the made-for-TV film with Luke Perry were you?

God, I hope he was.

Derek

04-24-2010, 01:25 AM

Please elaborate on the comment, "off-puttingly hacky."

As opposed to endearingly hacky...perhaps?

Spun Lepton

04-24-2010, 01:34 AM

As opposed to endearingly hacky...perhaps?

I'm just curious what consitutes being "hacky." I have my own definition, but I want to hear Rowland's.

MadMan

04-24-2010, 02:07 AM

I'm at work right now and I just spoke to somebody working at THE Monroeville Mall. It took every fiber of self-restraint to not start geeking out about Dawn of the Dead. :lol:You have far more restraint than I do. I'd start talking about Dawn of the Dead right away, heh.

megladon8

04-24-2010, 02:08 AM

I'm at work right now and I just spoke to somebody working at THE Monroeville Mall. It took every fiber of self-restraint to not start geeking out about Dawn of the Dead. :lol:

Monroeville Mall? What's so special about that?

OH! You mean 'cause of, like, Marilyn Monroe? Right?

Rowland

04-24-2010, 02:24 AM

Please elaborate on the comment, "off-puttingly hacky."As in, he makes blatantly poor directorial choices that serve only to diminish the experience. Most instances of this in Pandorum had to do with Alvart failing to maintain a coherent geography during action heavy scenes, which resulted in two separate scenes leading me to believe a character was killed who wasn't. Reminded me of Neil Marshall at his worst in this respect, only Marshall is more exuberant in his sometime-hackiness.

As opposed to endearingly hacky...perhaps?There is such a thing.

Rowland

04-24-2010, 02:39 AM

Triangle is written and directed by the same guy who did Severance, which I liked well enough. From what I've seen, this Triangle movie gives off a strong Timecrimes vibe.

Derek

04-24-2010, 03:00 AM

There is such a thing.

For some people there is, which is why I suggested the possibility.

Ezee E

04-24-2010, 06:48 PM

I don't even remember how I came across this movie, but The Black Pit of Dr. M is a good first foray into Mexican Classic Horror Films. While there's something missing in the translation of the title, the movie has some great atmosphere, and makes good use of a ghost story taking place in a sanitorium. It also benefits from having a great transfer. Clear sound and picture.

I'll have to check out more from Fernando Mendez.

The Mike

04-25-2010, 03:23 AM

Never even heard of it.

Please go on :)
As someone said, it's from the same guy that made Severance and Creep. Kind of The Shining meets The Butterfly Effect (only good) at sea. Not a bad little flick, with some insanely cool imagery.

Grouchy

04-26-2010, 02:11 PM

Curiosity got the better of me and I rented a 2009 version of Poe's Ligeia. It stars Wes Bentley (what happened to this kid?), Michael Madsen and Eric Roberts, which is a typical B-movie cast. Not bad enough to be funny, but Robert's Ukranian accent has to be heard to be believed. The movie has very little to do with the short story except that it sort of mentions reincarnation. The story is ambiguous, Gothic and an example of early Romanticism. The movie is sleazy, cheap and it's about a witch who sucks up the souls of people in order to be inmortal. People's souls look like blue farts with their screaming faces in the middle. This is not recommended.

Spun Lepton

04-26-2010, 02:22 PM

As someone said, it's from the same guy that made Severance and Creep.

Oof. Pass.

Ezee E

04-26-2010, 04:13 PM

The Descent: Part 2 comes out on DVD tomorrow. Anyone see it?

D_Davis

04-26-2010, 11:17 PM

The Descent: Part 2 comes out on DVD tomorrow. Anyone see it?

I'll see it if it has a cool tag-line like "Go Deeper," or something.

megladon8

04-26-2010, 11:18 PM

I'll see it if it has a cool tag-line like "Go Deeper," or something.

That makes it sound uncomfortably close to porno.

D_Davis

04-26-2010, 11:30 PM

That makes it sound uncomfortably close to porno.

I prefer to think that it sounds comfortably close.

MadMan

04-27-2010, 03:23 AM

Oof. Pass.I rather liked Severance, and thought it was a good solid movie. Even though I also feel that its satire elements could have gone deeper, and sure it may have had more things to say than it actually did. Smarter than your average slasher, but that's not really hard to do.

Which brings to mind my idea for the next Jason movie. It'll never happen, and I've never writen a script before, but I'm tempeted to try.

Dead & Messed Up

04-29-2010, 04:38 AM

Extended thoughts on Dolan's Cadillac up at the ol' blog (http://horrorfilms101.blogspot.com):

His crusade makes for a narrow story focused on these two personalities, so casting becomes key. Christian Slater has a lot of fun as gangster Jimmy Dolan, who refers to his unwilling whores as "units" to be moved. Giving Dolan that specific trade (King's story was purposefully vague) keeps his scenes uniquely repulsive, and Slater savors the opportunity to overact - he's a lot of fun. Pitted against Dolan is Wes Bentley's Tom, and while Bentley's suffered a downward slide in legacy since American Beauty, he still carries some of that eerie intensity. While that makes his early scenes discomforting, with his steady, unblinking gazes, he proves effective in the final half hour. The payoff of his careful planning proves satisfying.

Dead & Messed Up

04-30-2010, 12:17 AM

Also, I switched up my banner for the blog.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/deadandmessedup/Banner-Thing.jpg

Hooray.

MadMan

04-30-2010, 10:00 AM

The "A Nightmare On Elm Street" remake was surprisingly freaky, and actually well made. Considering I find the original to be a tad overrated, I'd say the remake is about the same in quality. Yes, you heard me right :P

More thoughts to come-but even though Jackie Earl Haley did a good job as Freddy, he's no Robert England. I'm glad a friend dragged me to this, as it was a midnight show and those are always fun.

Rowland

04-30-2010, 04:51 PM

Slant's Ed Gonzalez gives a shout-out to Zombie's Halloween II in his review for the Nightmare on Elm Street remake:

"The tone of the film is never serious, never empathetic of either Freddy or his victims, just slick and flippant. Surely Bay and company learned nothing from Rob Zombie's beautiful—yes, beautiful (the director's cut, at least)—Halloween II: In that almost Lynchian freakout, Zombie's prismatic aesthetic is cannily rhymed with Michael Myers's graphic mood swings, every obscenely prolonged kill scene a stunning reflection on an iconic movie monster's needs and distress."

D_Davis

04-30-2010, 04:54 PM

I haven't seen RZHII, but I'll still defend the first as an incredibly effective horror film. I should get around to seeing the second.

Bosco B Thug

04-30-2010, 09:46 PM

Scar

04-30-2010, 10:07 PM

I'm giving Halloween 2 another try. Netflix shipped it today.

MadMan

05-01-2010, 07:22 AM

WTF? H2 was a mediocre movie that drowned amongst overkill (no pun intended) pointless brutal violence that ruined a movie that could have been a great psychologically driven, far more scarier, horror movie. At least the Nightmare on Elm Street movie creepied me out and even scared me in some parts.

Oh and Freddy is slightly scarier than Michael Myers in my book. I plan to watch the rest of the Nightmare on Elm Street series, but I can't imagine it being worse than the terrible Halloween series. I rather enjoy and like the Jason movies (aside from Jason Goes to Hell-I haven't seen Jason X yet) but that's just me.

Rowland

05-01-2010, 08:29 AM

Nice try MadMan, but I can't say you've swayed me into caring enough about the Elm Street remake to give it a chance. Also, I'd argue that H2's violence is absolutely justified, and crucial to the film's effect.

Tried watching Ti West's Trigger Man tonight, nearly fell asleep about twenty five minutes into it, so I figured I should try again when I'm more alert. Can't say I was too impressed by what I saw however, but I'll expound after I've completed the film.

Raiders

05-01-2010, 12:38 PM

Tried watching Ti West's Trigger Man tonight, nearly fell asleep about twenty five minutes into it, so I figured I should try again when I'm more alert. Can't say I was too impressed by what I saw however, but I'll expound after I've completed the film.

It's no 2012, that's for sure.

Dead & Messed Up

05-01-2010, 08:49 PM

Goddamnit, now I'm going to have to watch Halloween 2 at some point. I thought Zombie's remake was occasionally inspired (if maddeningly repetitive in its final hour), so I'm not entirely against his revisionist attitude, and given some of the opinions here...

Goddamnit.

MadMan

05-01-2010, 08:50 PM

Nice try MadMan, but I can't say you've swayed me into caring enough about the Elm Street remake to give it a chance. Also, I'd argue that H2's violence is absolutely justified, and crucial to the film's effect.Hah, honestly that wasn't my intention, and I understand if people don't give it a chance. Remakes are a crap shot, anyways.

And its not just that H2's violence isn't justifed, its that it also fails to be particularly interesting, or inspire anything of note. I was maybe slightly disgusted, but I was left largely bored-it failed to move me. Isn't violence supposed to provoke a reaction? The first film managed to use violence to mass effect-especially early on when Myers kills his first victim. That was disturbing, and actually powerful.

Bosco B Thug

05-01-2010, 10:00 PM

For the record, I don't think anyone here actually feels as supportive of Halloween 2 as these online critic jokers.

(if maddeningly repetitive in its final hour) Yeah, don't see you liking this. It's all repetitive slasher film, so unless Zombie's dripping imagery and basic rathole humanism grabs you, the film would just be unpleasant.

MadMan

05-02-2010, 08:44 AM

Tonight I viewed the 2nd and 3rd entries in the original A Nightmare on Elm Street series, plus the original on Blu Ray. The transfer for the original was great, but my rating only went up maybe one or two points-I still don't think as highly of it as others do.

As for the sequels, Freddy's Revenge was awful, but it had its moments. There was an interesting underlying homesexual theme present that failed to be properly utilized or even recognized, and some of the elements worked. Overall though, much of it drowns in 80s cheesiness and the fact that its not at all scary or enjoyable.

The Dream Warriors on the other hand had plenty of freaky/creepy moments, and was well a well made part of the series that I really liked. Even though its not as good as the first one, many scenes worked (the TV death and the puppet death both being nasty and surprising), and the cast was really good here. The final shot also manages to be properly eerie, plus this manages to dive into Freddy's past without wasting too much time on it. And hey, John Saxon and Nancy returns, which is cool.

Rowland

05-04-2010, 03:41 AM

For the record, I don't think anyone here actually feels as supportive of Halloween 2 as these online critic jokers.I'm probably the closest, which is why I continually feel compelled to post such examples. At the very least, I like it more than overrated efforts like Zombieland and Drag Me to Hell.

MadMan

05-04-2010, 04:46 AM

I don't know about Drag Me To Hell. But Zombieland and H2 are two entirely different movies. Zombieland is a horror/comedy, and isn't really meant to be scary, where as H2 is a slasher movie and aims to be disgusting/frightening/disturbing/freaky.

Rowland

05-04-2010, 06:18 AM

But Zombieland and H2 are two entirely different movies. Well yeah, but it's still a prominent example of the horror genre, albeit a cutesy one ostensibly designed to upend genre conventions. I'm not directly comparing them, only making the point that I prefer H2, which was generally derided and didn't perform well at the box office, whereas Zombieland is generally pretty well-regarded, contrary to my take on the movie, which I've discussed in the past. Not to sound all self-consciously anti-populist or anything, since I also liked Paranormal Activity more than Drag Me to Hell, contrary to the overwhelming consensus of the online critical crowd.

MadMan

05-04-2010, 07:51 PM

Well yeah, but it's still a prominent example of the horror genre, albeit a cutesy one ostensibly designed to upend genre conventions. I'm not directly comparing them, only making the point that I prefer H2, which was generally derided and didn't perform well at the box office, whereas Zombieland is generally pretty well-regarded, contrary to my take on the movie, which I've discussed in the past. Not to sound all self-consciously anti-populist or anything, since I also liked Paranormal Activity more than Drag Me to Hell, contrary to the overwhelming consensus of the online critical crowd.Okay, I see you points here. Also, I thought that H2 at least had a really good opening weekend-I guess the box office faulted after that. Paranormal Activity was very creepy and well made, btw, and so far I haven't had much of a reason to see Drag Me To Hell, since I fear it will fail to meet expectations. After all, its Rami doing a horror movie again decades after he last made one.

Pop Trash

05-05-2010, 12:19 AM

Okay, I see you points here. Also, I thought that H2 at least had a really good opening weekend-I guess the box office faulted after that. Paranormal Activity was very creepy and well made, btw, and so far I haven't had much of a reason to see Drag Me To Hell, since I fear it will fail to meet expectations. After all, its Rami doing a horror movie again decades after he last made one.

This doesn't matter at all. He's still got it. He hasn't become the George Lucas of horror or anything.

Spun Lepton

05-05-2010, 12:35 AM

I haven't had much of a reason to see Drag Me To Hell, since I fear it will fail to meet expectations.

Your loss.

Derek

05-05-2010, 12:37 AM

and so far I haven't had much of a reason to see Drag Me To Hell, since I fear it will fail to meet expectations. After all, its Rami doing a horror movie again decades after he last made one.

The fact that most critics and Raimi fans liked it doesn't give you any reason to see it? I don't think it's a good movie, but that's just an odd thing to say for anyone who likes Sam Raimi.

megladon8

05-05-2010, 01:06 AM

Yeah I see no reason why someone who isn't a horror fan or a Raimi fan (let alone both) shouldn't see Drag Me to Hell.

I'm surprised you haven't seen it already, actually.

Bosco B Thug

05-05-2010, 01:13 AM

After all, its Rami doing a horror movie again decades after he last made one. Shhh, it's true, there's been decline!

Though you should still watch it. And it probably has more to do with the tricks and gadgetry of modern movie-making conditioning Raimi and making ingenuity less needed in the process rather than Raimi having bewilderingly lost it (e.g. Argento and Mother of Tears), since all his trademarks are there, they're just dulled.

Got to see Vincenzo 'Cube' Natali's Splice early. It's definitely something. I believe it's getting a pretty wide release, so ideally it should light a fire underneath the asses of both the makers and consumers of all the generic horror crap being churned out.

It's not a great film - the first third or so threatens the same sort of souped-up but generic craft of the typical Hollywood genre flick - but as it gets crazier and more demented, Natali starts getting into it. Natali, the up-and-coming master of the laboriously, naifly over-visualized concept film, at least isn't entirely vapid with his drama (although not that it's brilliant drama, either), and it shows in how knowingly he pushes the buttons, then how willing he is to mute it all with wryness and tonal good sense, in follow-up moments that both ground and self-analyze, whether it is in the visuals or the riotous drama involved.

To sum the film up so you can decide if you want to see it in a month, it's a energetic, not-at-all somber (I guess Cube is his most dirge-like film to date, then) sci-fi-horror parable involving Polley and Brody playing science wunderkinds and power couple, a delightful Macbeth/Lady Macbeth variation (or Frankenstein/Lady Frankenstein, more accurately) that Natali thankfully gives much color and black dramady.

Spun Lepton

05-05-2010, 01:40 AM

How closely does Splice resemble Species? 'Cuz after watching the trailer and hearing the description, they sounded awfully similar.

Bosco B Thug

05-05-2010, 01:48 AM

Spun Lepton

05-05-2010, 01:57 AM

I have not seen Species, but reading the summary on IMDb, the similarities should end with the idea of a female human hybrid thing that goes rogue and seductive. I guess it is very derivative, but it doesn't turn into a rampage flick, for instance.

Okay. I thought the trailer looked interesting, but then it started to resemble Species far too much, and I became wary. Still, I'll probably check it out.

D_Davis

05-05-2010, 02:04 AM

Drag Me to Hell = two thumbs way down. Such a miserable little film.

Dead & Messed Up

05-05-2010, 03:17 AM

I figure any Raimi fan should at least give Drag Me to Hell a shot.

By the by, I'm near the end of Harryhausen's canon. Watched It Came from Beneath the Sea last night, wrote about it in the blog (see sig).

Ever irascible, Mathews's attraction to the female biologist stops whenever the sleepy-eyed Joyce and her damned ovaries insist on joining the action. Her friend Carter helpfully explains that women nowadays can be useful, you know, like men. Still, Mathews's anger subsides long enough for some forceful flirting, as when he corners her in a science lab. Joyce avoids his gaze, but she coyly handles a test tube that sits between them, which suggests that, on some level, she's receptive to his rapey come-ons.

I'm finding his sci-fi's diverting, if not nearly as much fun as his creature-packed fantasies.

megladon8

05-05-2010, 04:44 AM

Drag Me to Hell = two thumbs way down. Such a miserable little film.

You're in the minority with this one :P

MadMan really should see it for himself.

D_Davis

05-05-2010, 04:50 AM

You're in the minority with this one :P

Oh yeah, big time.

But I hate that film something fierce. I find it utterly despicable, and terribly made.

megladon8

05-05-2010, 05:00 AM

Oh yeah, big time.

But I hate that film something fierce. I find it utterly despicable, and terribly made.

I still don't understand your finding it morally despicable, but it's not an argument worth having again :)

Winston*

05-05-2010, 05:08 AM

I liked Drag Me to Hell on a scene to scene basis, but I didn't like the ending. I don't understand why a dumb fun movie has to end on such a downer.

megladon8

05-05-2010, 05:09 AM

The ending was hilarious.

Pop Trash

05-05-2010, 10:09 AM

The ending was hilarious.
Agreed. Plus it justified the title.

Grouchy

05-05-2010, 08:07 PM

Yeah. Come on, it's fun to watch. I don't understand anyone who watches a film like this and doesn't want the heroine to suffer.

I discovered a pretty cool rock bar that shows bad Horror movies every Tuesday and raffles drinks among the audience. It's also a free zone to smoke weed. Awesome. So yesterday we watched Mosquito (1995). Not bad enough, but a couple of the lines had me laughing hard.

(with bad accent) "Hey Doc... That's science fiction bullshit!"
"No, Hendricks. You are living... in science... fact".

Bosco B Thug

05-05-2010, 08:27 PM

The problem with Drag Me To Hell's ending is that it's just unsatisfying. For a number of reasons: it makes no further points about anything, it's essentially a twist ending (and so reveals the graveyard scene as the film's very weak climax), and it's just not particularly clever. So she got dragged to hell because... she actually failed to do what she had to do not to be dragged to hell. How... self-evident and trivial.

Spun Lepton

05-05-2010, 08:31 PM

The problem with Drag Me To Hell's ending is that it's just unsatisfying. For a number of reasons: it makes no further points about anything, it's essentially a twist ending (and so reveals the graveyard scene as the film's very weak climax), and it's just not particularly clever.

So she got dragged to hell because... she actually failed to do what she had to do not to be dragged to hell. How... self-evident and trivial.

Spoilers, Bosco. :|

Dead & Messed Up

05-05-2010, 08:49 PM

Drag Me to Hell's best moment:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/deadandmessedup/Horror%20Decade%20Moments/20-DragMetoHell-Moment.jpg

Scar

05-05-2010, 10:17 PM

The ending is good and all, but for me its:

The goat

megladon8

05-05-2010, 11:29 PM

"Here kitty, kitty..."

Rowland

05-06-2010, 01:01 AM

After an appropriately ominous opening shot, I was almost immediately turned off by Ti West's use of Dogme-style digital handheld cinematography in Trigger Man (2007). An introductory scene to one of our protagonists features an almost frenetic use of stuttering zooms that reminded me more of some anonymous crappy cable show than the more measured, artful use of zooming I recalled from House of the Devil, and this was just for a simple shot of a character ringing a doorbell. Lots of herky-jerky camerawork and the continued abuse of seemingly arbirtrary zooms immediately placed me in a cynical state of mind, so being half asleep my first attempt at watching the film, I tuned out almost immediately and subsequently turned it off a mere twenty minutes in after nearly dozing off.

I'm glad I gave it another shot from the beginning, because while the camerawork remains a mixed bag of techniques (West is clearly in his element when wringing tension from his use of framing, negative space, and long takes), there is plenty to champion in the opening hunting-segment of the film, such as the tasteful (and perhaps obvious) use of Carpenter-style drones for the soundtrack, how West subtly sketches the lived-in camaraderie of the trio, how the identity of the second half's main protagonist is suggested without too much fanfare, and even how accurately he communicates just how tedious hunting can be. This last point is particularly important, because it feels like a challenge by the filmmaker to his genre-fiend audiences, right down to a scene where the character whose decision it was to take his friends out hunting derides one of them for admitting to boredom in a key exchange that plays almost like a breaking of the third-wall:

"They (the deer) don't just come out to get shot. You can't be impatient."
"We've got these guns, I just want to shoot something!"
"Just have some patience."
"Man, we've been patient! Been waiting for like Predator to pop out of these trees so we can blast the forest down!"

Patience is rewarded in the sufficiently tense second half, which on the one hand proves frustrating for seemingly failing to explore the potential of the scenario for imaginative setpieces or even just inserting some sort of social/political element, no matter how vague, but I admire how straight West plays it out as a survivalist thriller that hews pretty strictly to the reality established by the first half, right down to its deliberately mundane climax and complete lack of closure. In the end this all comes across as a bit of an empty exercise, but it is nevertheless a very solid, intermittently striking example of guerrilla filmmaking at its most intensely focused. Moment to savor: The minutes-long tracking shot through the darkened tunnels of the factory.

D_Davis

05-06-2010, 01:06 AM

Raiders

05-06-2010, 01:08 AM

:pritch:

I think West captures the awkwardness of the opening hunting section brilliantly. I didn't really pick up on it the first time, focusing instead more on the way the shots kept leading them further into the forest. Without almost any dialogue with the exception of the eventual outburst you quote, he captures almost perfectly a sense of displacement amongst the friends not only in their surroundings but also in the relationship between each other.

I think the breaking-the-wall part you mention is entirely intentional. I mentioned it back when I saw it that though the film follows three wannabe-hunters, it ends up placing you solely in the mind of the hunted. By style alone, it switches the tables.

Scar

05-06-2010, 01:27 AM

"They (the deer) don't just come out to get shot. You can't be impatient."
"We've got these guns, I just want to shoot something!"
"Just have some patience."
"Man, we've been patient! Been waiting for like Predator to pop out of these trees so we can blast the forest down!"

:|

Sounds like someone has no business hunting.

Rowland

05-06-2010, 01:29 AM

Also, the second time around I noticed a cute bit of foreshadowing: How the guy at the doorbell is startled by his friends when they drop something from their upper-story window as a prank that nearly nails him in the head rather neatly sets him up as the first to unexpectedly get his head blown off later on.

Rowland

05-06-2010, 01:32 AM

:|

Sounds like someone has no business hunting.Yeah, they're almost comically inept in their displacement, as Raiders so aptly labeled it.

megladon8

05-06-2010, 05:07 AM

The best part in Drag Me to Hell is when the stereotypical and culturally-imperialistic gypsy lady curses the girl for doing her job. She was all, "Oh you have a shitty job and the system sucks and I can't pay my bills...well fuck you jack, you're gonna burn in hell!"

HAHAHHAHHAH HAHAHA...oh man...that was hilarious.

But the gypsy is the villain of the movie. Isn't a fairly typical definition of a villain someone who does bad things to innocent people?

Really, nothing in the film is on a lower moral scale than, say, a "Looney Tunes" cartoon. You could also argue that Sylvester always being shown getting hurt terribly when he just needs food (Tweety - a bird [see: things cats eat]), is morally despicable becuase Sylsvester isn't really doing anything wrong.

And many of Raimi's films have dealt with near-tasteless spastick surrounding horrific situations - people have noted Raimi's influence from "Three Stooges" and "Looney Tunes" for years.

I guess my bottom line is - Raimi has never (except for his Spider-Man trilogy) tried to preach morally just characters and stories with happy outcomes. Just look at A Simple Plan. So I don't know why his usual frantic, morbid, splastick style sticks out so badly for you in this one movie.

MadMan

05-06-2010, 06:09 AM

The fact that most critics and Raimi fans liked it doesn't give you any reason to see it? I don't think it's a good movie, but that's just an odd thing to say for anyone who likes Sam Raimi.Well yeah, that just feeds into the insanely high expectations I already have for the movie.

Your loss.I'll see it eventually, I just fear the high expectations. So yes, that's why I've been putting it off.

This doesn't matter at all. He's still got it. He hasn't become the George Lucas of horror or anything.I sure hope so, although I don't think he's become Lucus.

So yes, I'll watch it. Eventually :P

It Came From Beneath the Sea, cool octopus effects aside, is painfully mediocre and largely boring. Too bad, because the premise is super cool. Mosquito is hilarious and terrible, but in a "So bad its entertaining" type of way, although of course it gets a poor rating overall.

Finally, Splice looks goddamn freaky, and the creature appears to be rather eerie, which is good. The trailer offers significent promise, especially if the movie dives into the moral and ethical issues of abusing scientific technology, which I'm sure they will and do according to Bosco.

KK2.0

05-06-2010, 06:14 PM

I just blind-bought Drag Me To Hell, can't wait to watch it.

Ezee E

05-06-2010, 09:50 PM

Watched The Descent: Part 2 with the misunderstanding that it was a bunch of soldiers that were going into the caves to basically hunt the crawlers.

Instead, it's nearly a copycat of the first one, with the lone survivor going in with a team that's going to rescue the women that got lost. The survivor has "amnesia" and conveniently can't remember what happened. Why she gets to go with the rescue team remains questionable to me, especially since she's prone to panic attacks once they enter the cave.

The sequel does one huge thing that kills its chances of being scary. It lights its sets. Whereas the first was scary because of its claustrophobia, sense of being lost, and no idea what's around the corner, this one has people pretending to be in the dark while being on a lit set, and relying on quick cuts and the crawlers leaping behind big rocks. The director also has a fascination with blood flying into people's mouths. Not sure what it's about.

Surprisingly, it picks up steam at the end as the team tries to get out. They have to move around on water, which brings back the claustrophobia effect, and with a couple of other twists around the way, I'd almost give the movie a passing grade. However a good final twenty minutes (albeit a very stupid final twist) does not really give this a pass unless you're a huge fan of the first.

Spun Lepton

05-06-2010, 10:15 PM

I guess my bottom line is - Raimi has never (except for his Spider-Man trilogy) tried to preach morally just characters and stories with happy outcomes. Just look at A Simple Plan. So I don't know why his usual frantic, morbid, splastick style sticks out so badly for you in this one movie.

There's a little moralizing in Drag Me to Hell, though. Raimi is essentially saying that selfishness will lead you down a bad path.

megladon8

05-06-2010, 11:27 PM

There's a little moralizing in Drag Me to Hell, though. Raimi is essentially saying that selfishness will lead you down a bad path.

Yes, but not to the extreme that D seems to take it.

The movie is totally self-aware. Interpreting it as mean-spirited is like being that one guy in a room full of guys who says "you know, that joke about women you guys just told was disrespectful, and I will have no part of it."

D_Davis

05-06-2010, 11:31 PM

She wasn't being selfish. She was doing her job and following the rules of the game. Don't hate the playa, hate the game. The gyspy lady was delinquent on her bills - she should've been the one to pay, not the person enforcing the rules and laws on the books. The moralizing in the film is totally f'ed. It makes zero sense. It basically rewards the evil. God I hate that film so much. It's so stupid. On top of all that, it's not funny or scary, or even very well made beyond the shadow of the goat demon, which was very cool. And the sound was totally brickwalled. Terrible, terrible film.

megladon8

05-06-2010, 11:44 PM

Where does it reward the evil?

And like I said in my first post, villains typically do bad things to innocent/good people. That's what makes them villains.

The movie is never on Ganush's side.

Scar

05-06-2010, 11:50 PM

Back to 'ol Rob Zombie's Halloween movies:

I really enjoy his first one, very much so in fact.

I just rewatched the second one. The first time I watched it, I didn't much care for it. But after watching it again today, I must say, its grown on me like an incurable fungus. I'm not one to get very wordy in my reviews, but as long as I expect Mikey to be missing his mask off and on, I really enjoyed it. There's definitely something going on with this movie.

Spun Lepton

05-07-2010, 01:29 AM

She wasn't being selfish. She was doing her job and following the rules of the game. Don't hate the playa, hate the game. The gyspy lady was delinquent on her bills - she should've been the one to pay, not the person enforcing the rules and laws on the books. The moralizing in the film is totally f'ed.

She was given an ultimatum by her boss to tow the company line or get passed over for the promotion they've been promising her. She knew Ganush was in a very bad place and she knew that Ganush would be homeless if she didn't extend the mortgage, but she did it anyway. She could have acted selflessly, passed over the promotion and given Ganush the extension, but she did not.

Evil is not fair, also. Being offended when Hell plays by its own rules seems a little overreactionary.

/and this is coming from the king of overreaction!!!21!@

D_Davis

05-07-2010, 01:36 AM

Spun Lepton

05-07-2010, 01:38 AM

She worked at a business, not a charity.

And so what the film is saying is that if you don't get what you want, it's OK to curse someone to hell.

Now that's world view I can get behind!

The only thing that offended me was how stupid the movie was. Oh, and the terrible audio production/mix. But that was on a technical level.

I don't think the movie is saying it's okay to curse somebody. Like meg said, they're not siding with Ganush in the film. She's the antagonist.

megladon8

05-07-2010, 01:42 AM

She worked at a business, not a charity.

And so what the film is saying is that if you don't get what you want, it's OK to curse someone to hell.

That's just ridiculous, D. Really.

The movie is so, so clearly NOT on Ganush's side. It is never, at any point in time, saying that the ending shocker is JUSTIFIED.

IT NEVER SAYS CHRISTINE'S PUNISHMENT IS A GOOD THING.

D_Davis

05-07-2010, 01:47 AM

I don't think the movie is saying it's okay to curse somebody. Like meg said, they're not siding with Ganush in the film. She's the antagonist.

It's totally siding with her. If it didn't the girl wouldn't have been dragged to hell at the end, nor would the filmmakers have made the character kill the cat. Killing an animal like that in a film instantly shows you what the filmmakers think of that character. They want you to think that the girl deserves to go to hell.

Raimi said in interviews before that he wanted to say something a little more with this movie, and what he said was incredibly stupid.

I could overlook the stupidity of the plot if the film would have been better made on any other level. But unfortunately, it was not. The best funny parts were simply lifted from Evil Dead 2, and there were only about 5 minutes of any real tension in the entire film. It's a horror comedy that isn't very funny or scary, and one that has a very muddled message at best.

It's basically a complete misfire without a single redeeming quality. Well, OK, the goat shadow looks cool.

Spun Lepton

05-07-2010, 01:48 AM

She worked at a business, not a charity.

Why would evil care about any of this? When has the devil ever said, "Well, you know, he stole that bread to survive, so I'll let it pass." Last I checked, Hell deals with absolutes, both great and petty. The Bible says you're just as likely to go to Hell for lying as you are for genocide, and you'll burn FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER x INFINITY regardless. Is that fair?

This is going to devole into another theology discussion, so I'll just leave it there.

megladon8

05-07-2010, 01:49 AM

It's totally siding with her. If it didn't the girl wouldn't have been dragged to hell at the end, nor would the filmmakers have made the character kill the cat. Killing an animal like that in a film instantly shows you what the filmmakers think of that character. They want you to think that the girl deserves to go to hell.

This is all just completely false. Completely.

I once again withdraw myself from the argument. This is as futile as arguing politics with Barty.

EDIT:

It's totally siding with her. If it didn't the girl wouldn't have been dragged to hell at the end,

By this logic, every movie with an unhappy (at least for the protagonist) ending has the filmmakers siding with the villain.

The Empire Strikes Back must be siding with Vader and the Dark Side, otherwise Luke wouldn't have lost his hand and Han wouldn't have been frozen in carbonite.

The Matrix trilogy must have been siding with the machines, or else Trinity and Neo wouldn't have died.

So on and so forth.

D_Davis

05-07-2010, 01:54 AM

This is going to devole into another theology discussion, so I'll just leave it there.

My problem is not with any of the film's theology. I couldn't care less about this. It's just a movie. Didn't offend me on any kind of "spiritual" level. I actually enjoy films that take liberties with religious dogma and present far-out ideas that I may disagree with.

My problem with it is that the plot is stupid, it's not well made on any other level, and that Raimi's message was entirely muddled, thus rendering the plot stupid. The direction is boring, it's entirely uncreative, racist, loud, obnoxious and didn't entertain me at all. A terrible movie.

Spun Lepton

05-07-2010, 02:03 AM

Grouchy

05-07-2010, 07:26 PM

It's totally siding with her. If it didn't the girl wouldn't have been dragged to hell at the end, nor would the filmmakers have made the character kill the cat. Killing an animal like that in a film instantly shows you what the filmmakers think of that character. They want you to think that the girl deserves to go to hell.
What meg said. Completely false and broken logic you got going there. Just because ugly things happen to a character in a movie doesn't mean the filmmakers are against that character. In fact, most of the time it's the opposite that's true. Also, she killed the cat to save her life.

I dunno, I think you're seeing things that aren't there. The film is not racist against gypsies, it's just that gypsies are famous for their curses and are therefore used as a plot device. And yes, the one fatal flaw that curses the girl is not putting an elderly person's life above such petty little concerns as her salary rise. You can argue that's not enough to be cursed to hell for all eternity - Ms Ganush evidently thought otherwise. Otherwise there wouldn't be a movie.

And I'm no sound editor or composer, but I can tell good sound design. And regardless of how the volume was played in your theater or how do you normally play your films at home, the sound design in this film is not "brickwalled" - it's one of its strongest assets.

D_Davis

05-07-2010, 07:30 PM

It was totally brickwalled.

D_Davis

05-07-2010, 07:32 PM

Otherwise there wouldn't be a movie.

If only I were so lucky.

D_Davis

05-07-2010, 07:35 PM

it's just that gypsies are famous for their curses and are therefore used as a plot device.

And at one time Asian characters were famous for having buck teeth and being silly side-kicks.

Those times are gone. Let's move on.

They might as well of had some Zulu-looking tribe guy with a bone in his hair casting some voodoo magic while eating watermelon and fried chicken.

It's lazy and stupid characterization, but then again it fits perfectly with this lazy and stupid film.

Grouchy

05-07-2010, 07:44 PM

Eh, ok, I withdraw as well. Whatever you want to think is fine.

D_Davis

05-07-2010, 09:06 PM

Eh, ok, I withdraw as well. Whatever you want to think is fine.

Really? You'll entitle me to a thought? Thank you kind sir!

bac0n

05-07-2010, 10:03 PM

you guys had better watch your fucking mouths.

Dan Davis has the Saikyo!

D_Davis

05-07-2010, 10:29 PM

you guys had better watch your fucking mouths.

Dan Davis has the Saikyo!

GADOKEN!

http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/__icsFiles/artimage/2008/11/26/pc_fc_n_gn/dandan31.jpg

megladon8

05-07-2010, 11:38 PM

And at one time Asian characters were famous for having buck teeth and being silly side-kicks.

Those times are gone. Let's move on.

They might as well of had some Zulu-looking tribe guy with a bone in his hair casting some voodoo magic while eating watermelon and fried chicken.

It's lazy and stupid characterization, but then again it fits perfectly with this lazy and stupid film.

You seem to think it's perfectly OK, though, when Asian films make fun of North Americans with ridiculous stereotypes.

Why the double standard?

D_Davis

05-08-2010, 01:08 AM

You seem to think it's perfectly OK, though, when Asian films make fun of North Americans with ridiculous stereotypes.

Why the double standard?

I try to look at it in terms of cultural relevance, and where we are supposed to be as a culture compared to where other countries are. I would think that an American filmmaker would be more progressive in this area in this day and age because the culture in which we live seems to be overly concerned with these kinds of things. That's not always the case. Hong Kong films often have things that we might call "politically incorrect" simply because their culture is different and they are in a different place than we are. It's not wrong, it's just different.

We've moved on from white actors in black face.

I'll assume you're talking about Tsui Hark's Once Upon a Time in China, but I know there are others, which does present the British and American missionaries in a less than flattering light. However, I think it does so to make a point about the clash of cultures. It also paints the Chinese characters in broad strokes, and utilizes its stereotypes in interesting ways that offer up more than just lazy characterizations. The film is actually saying something about culture through the use of its stereotypes. The same can be said for the weight lifter in The Boxer From Shantung, but again that film is not only from a different culture, but from an entirely different decade.

Also, I can forgive some things that I might find problematic if the film is even remotely well made in any other regard. If there are things that are done well to take the light off of the problematic areas, then those troublesome things don't shine as bright. Unfortunately, nothing in Drag Me to Hell is worth a damn. It's terribly made on every possible level, and so its faults stick out even more. If I am not engaged with a film then I tend to notice more the things that I dislike about it, and I wasn't engaged with Drag Me to Hell at all.

BuffaloWilder

05-08-2010, 03:55 AM

I have a gypsy great step-aunt. She tries to curse everyone, constantly. She sleeps draped in beads and she has one tooth.

megladon8

05-08-2010, 06:10 PM

I try to look at it in terms of cultural relevance, and where we are supposed to be as a culture compared to where other countries are. I would think that an American filmmaker would be more progressive in this area in this day and age because the culture in which we live seems to be overly concerned with these kinds of things. That's not always the case. Hong Kong films often have things that we might call "politically incorrect" simply because their culture is different and they are in a different place than we are. It's not wrong, it's just different.

That's so arbitrary, though. It can't be OK for one and not for another. You can't hold Chinese culture up to a different standard when it comes to xenophobia and racism, just because they come from a different culture. That's excusing something that is clearly wrong. Either say it's wrong for everyone to do it, or don't pick and choose where it's OK and not.

D_Davis

05-09-2010, 12:31 AM

That's so arbitrary, though. It can't be OK for one and not for another. You can't hold Chinese culture up to a different standard when it comes to xenophobia and racism, just because they come from a different culture. That's excusing something that is clearly wrong. Either say it's wrong for everyone to do it, or don't pick and choose where it's OK and not.

Life is not that black and white. Different cultures are different. In some Asian counties it's OK to eat dog. That's not wrong, just different. Can't judge.

The world don't move to the beat of just one drum. What might be right for you, may not be right for some.