Watchmen

[Ezee E]

So do you guys think this movie will still come out? I ask because of the legal problems the movie is in.
Yes. Yes I do.

[Dead & Messed Up]

So do you guys think this movie will still come out? I ask because of the legal problems the movie is in.

Fox doesn't want it halted. They want money. If they wanted to delay (or destroy) the flick, they would've attacked back when preproduction started.

[Ivan Drago]

Fox doesn't want it halted. They want money. If they wanted to delay (or destroy) the flick, they would've attacked back when preproduction started.

Well...they did sue Warner Bros. back in February. Or was that when the movie was still in production?

Oh is Paramount involved with the legal crap too? I ask because in the Watchmen trailer Paramount's logo is shown before Warner's.

[Watashi]

Warner Bros. just unveiled a first look at Watchmen to an eager audience at their studio lot in West Hollywood. Director Zack Snyder joined costume designer Michael Wilkinson and Production Designer Alex McDowell for the event, showing off the first 12 minutes and a few subsequent scenes, totaling nearly a half hour of brand-new footage.

Opening with stylish black-on-yellow production logos, the shot begins on the classic smiley face button-pinned to a man selling newspapers on the street. Tracking immediately upward, we're taken inside Edward Blake's (Jeffrey Dean Morgan) apartment. Just as in the first panels of the original comic book, we see the Comedian sitting at home alone in the final moments of his life. The scene (and nearly every shot showcased) is jam-packed with hidden references. On the wall is a '50's style pin-up of Sally Jupiter (Carla Gugino) and on the television we see a pundit-style press show with footage of Richard Nixon giving a Presidential speech. Discussions are held about a "Doomsday Clock" and ongoing tensions with Russia. Here, Doctor Manhattan (Billy Crudup) is introduced as America's best defense in the Cold War.

Coming back to Blake's apartment, we find him changing the channel to a film that plays the song "Unforgettable." The song continues to play throughout the scene as a masked assailant breaks in the front door and fights with Blake. The fight is much longer than in the comic and includes a number of Snyder's signature slow-motion shots.

The fight ends with Blake losing and blood dripping from his chin onto his own smiley face button. He's thrown back, crashing through the window and falling to the pavement below. The button falls in slow-motion, landing by his side before being surrounded by a pool of blood from his dead body.

Cue Bob Dylan's "The Times, They Are A'Changin'" as we enter the opening credits, beginning with a shot of the 50's-style Minute Men taking a group photo. There's a lot of great bits against Dylan's words, all captured in an almost-still kind of slow-motion. We're taken through the whole history of superheroes in this world with many shots representing an alternate take on real-life historical events; Doctor Manhattan shakes hands with President Kennedy (using actual footage) and we then see his assassination by the Comedian (standing on the grassy knoll). Lesbian superheroine Silhouette kisses a nurse at the end of World War II (parodying the LIFE magazine photo) and then a shot of her subsequent murder. Ozymandias (Matthew Goode) stands outside Studio 54. The Enola Gay flies past, painted with the image of Sally Jupiter. Andy Warhol (with Truman Capote) shows off a painting of Nite Owl. Doctor Manhattan stands on the moon, filming the first astronauts. Sally Jupiter's retirement party is framed like DaVinci's "The Last Supper."

The scene ends with a new wave of superheroes taking the same shot the credits begin with, 30 years later and then pulls out to reveal a store window filled with televisions and the spraypainted: "WHO WATCHES THE WATCHMEN?" in red across the glass. A molotov cocktail is thrown through the window and the scene erupts in flames.

The next scene showcased had Doctor Manhattan sitting on Mars, looking at a photograph and speaking in an inner monologue, remembering (with flashbacks) the events of his life that led to this particular moment. We see him in an amusement park in 1959 with his girlfriend, Janey. We see an accident that happens in his laboratory that leads to him becoming all-powerful, returning as a blue, glowing God-like force. We see him being drafted by the government and asked to step in to end the Vietnam war. We see him using his powers to obliterate tanks, villages and people. We learn that he cheated on his wife with the second Silk Spectre, Laurie (Malin Akerman) and, wanting to escape humanity, has traveled to Mars where he meditates in the desert. Floating above the ground with his legs crossed, Dr. Manhattan calls forth an enormous clockwork structure from the sand, building a golden monument against the red desert.

The last scene featured Nite Owl (Stephen McHattie) and Laurie having just had sex aboard Nite Owl's ship. Snyder explained that the characters are set up so that their superheroics are somewhat fetishized and that both characters get a sexual thrill out of crime-fighting. The two decide to break into a maximum security prison and bust out Rorschach (Jackie Earle Haley) who has been arrested. The Owl ship lands at the prison and major fights ensue as Rorschach is freed from his cell and other prisoners riot. A midget runs from Rorschach, but he chases him into the bathroom. We see him cornered before the door shuts and, after a silence, there's a flush as Rorschach emerges. Water and blood spills from the crack at the bottom of the bathroom door.

Snyder and crew answered a number of questions and let slip a few interesting bits :

"The Black Freighter" cartoon runs about 20 minutes. It will be released on DVD with a "60 Minutes" style news program, looking back on the release of the original Nite Owl's memoirs, "Under the Hood" a decade later.

As he's stated in the past, the plan for "Black Freighter" is to have it cut in with the rest of the full movie for an ultimate DVD cut somewhere down the line.

The current running time is two hours and 45 minutes but that may change in either direction.

Snyder promised there would never be a sequel saying, "No chance of a sequel or prequel or 'Watchmen Babies' or anything like that."

Though the film was not shot in IMAX, there will be an IMAX release, "in some way."

Other songs that appear in the film include Nena's "99 Luftballons" and Simon and Garfunkel's "The Sounds of Silence." The latter song plays at Blake's funeral and required special permission from the artists to be used; permission that has only been granted once before (For The Graduate in 1967).

Oh yes. Oh hell yes.

[Winston*]

I bet using The Times, They Are A'Changin' really helps sell the themes of change and the passage of time.

[Morris Schæffer]

The Sounds of Silence!!!

Never a bad thing.

[Raiders]

The last scene featured Nite Owl (Stephen McHattie) and Laurie having just had sex aboard Nite Owl's ship.

I'm fairly certain this is Patrick Wilson and not the 61 year-old McHattie.

[Qrazy]

That all sounds fairly shallow and awful to me.

[number8]

That all sounds fairly shallow and awful to me.

Yeah, me too. I can't say for certain having not seen it, but it does sound painfully obvious. And of course they extend all the fight sequences, heh.

[Raiders]

Not to mention I think it mentions the term "slow-motion" about four times, and that's just in a few scenes.

[Duncan]

I find it bizarre that that this movie isn't supposed to be released for 6 months and they're already showing half hour long clips to the press. It seems a desperate attempt at buzz.

[number8]

I find it bizarre that that this movie isn't supposed to be released for 6 months and they're already showing half hour long clips to the press. It seems a desperate attempt at buzz.

Nah, it's not bizarre. I mean, yeah, sure, but it's not this movie specifically. It's actually not an uncommon practice these days. I attended screenings like that before, usually for interviews (and I always end up grumpy because I'd get into the movie and whoops, 30 minutes, that's all we have for you!).

Heck, they screened an unfinished version of Kung Fu Panda (with storyboards spliced in) to the press. These days it's all about getting the blogs excited.

[Raiders]

Wow, fans of the Watchmen book think the movie will be terrible. What a surprise.

Wow, an insecure snide remark from someone who can't handle differing opinions. What a shocker.

[Ezee E]

I find it bizarre that that this movie isn't supposed to be released for 6 months and they're already showing half hour long clips to the press. It seems a desperate attempt at buzz.
Comic-Con?

[Watashi]

New trailer premiered at the Scream Awards. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5EXW2-Fj9Q)

Looks awesome.

I don't mind the slo-mo anymore. It fits it.

[Watashi]

Has anyone been following the test screenings for this?

In the test screening, there was no squid or kid reaching for the journal in the last shot. People complained and now Snyder is reshooting the entire ending. No idea if he is going to add the squid.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Has anyone been following the test screenings for this?

In the test screening, there was no squid or kid reaching for the journal in the last shot. People complained and now Snyder is reshooting the entire ending. No idea if he is going to add the squid.

On the climax:

The script I read had the non-squid ending, and, truth be told, it wasn't a bad fit. Instead, Ozymandias developed weapons that emulated Dr. Manhattan's powers.

On villains and heroes at the end:

The script I read had Nite Owl II kill Ozymandias. Which I didn't care for at all. Paints Ozy too clearly as a villain that had to be "bested."

[MadMan]

Must....resist...spoilers..... .ugh.

I liked the footage I saw tonight at the Scream Awards. It was pretty cool.

[SirNewt]

When is this releasing again? It's been at my periphery and I've intended to read 'Watchmen' for oh, five years now. Do I have time? '100 Years of Solitude' just kind of leapt to the top of my reading pile because, I don't know something must've snapped in my brain. Also, I'm a major comics newb. I've read one graphic novel, 'The Dark Knight Returns' and loved it. I read part of CA 'Winter Soldier' and got bored so I stopped. Should I still read 'Watch-men' or should my comics prowess be at least a certain height before I ride?

Oh, and I've read a bit of Eisner's the Spirit.

[ledfloyd]

On villains and heroes at the end:

The script I read had Nite Owl II kill Ozymandias. Which I didn't care for at all. Paints Ozy too clearly as a villain that had to be "bested."
exactly my problem with the doc manhattan frame-up thing. the whole point of the comic is that ozy did that for the greater good and rorshach couldn't deal with it. the way snyder has it set up right now completely takes all ambiguity from the ending.

[megladon8]

The new trailer shown at the Scream Awards last night. (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/10/21/watchmen-trailer-scream-200/)


Lots more slow-fast-slow-fast-slow-fast-slow-fast.

[Skitch]

WOW.

[Watashi]

The new trailer shown at the Scream Awards last night. (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/10/21/watchmen-trailer-scream-200/)


Lots more slow-fast-slow-fast-slow-fast-slow-fast.
....

C'mon, meg.

[Sven]

....

C'mon, meg.

His observation is legit. Has there ever been a more irritating directorial signature?

[Kurosawa Fan]

His observation is legit. Has there ever been a more irritating directorial signature?

I'm with Sven and meg. That slow-fast garbage is so annoying, it may keep me from seeing this (though that wouldn't be the only factor).

[Duncan]

I think Wats is just pointing out that he posted the same trailer like 5 posts earlier.

[Skitch]

Yeah...bit of a Freudian response, though. :)

[Duncan]

Yeah...bit of a Freudian response, though. :)

You think Meg is actually Wats' mother and that there's some sexual tension there?

[Sven]

I think Wats is just pointing out that he posted the same trailer like 5 posts earlier.

Ah. I suppose I can't blame him, because I didn't see Wats's post either. When it comes to this thread, I guess I just don't care enough about the movie to read all the responses that I've missed.

[Grouchy]

When is this releasing again? It's been at my periphery and I've intended to read 'Watchmen' for oh, five years now. Do I have time? '100 Years of Solitude' just kind of leapt to the top of my reading pile because, I don't know something must've snapped in my brain. Also, I'm a major comics newb. I've read one graphic novel, 'The Dark Knight Returns' and loved it. I read part of CA 'Winter Soldier' and got bored so I stopped. Should I still read 'Watch-men' or should my comics prowess be at least a certain height before I ride?

Oh, and I've read a bit of Eisner's the Spirit.
Just read Watchmen. Period.

I'll watch the trailer when I'm in a computer with sound.

[Ivan Drago]

WOW.

I second this. It probably looks so much better in high-def than on Youtube but it does look cool.

As far as the slo-mo goes, it worked in 300 and it works for Watchmen because it makes the images look like still comic book panels. At least to me it does.

[number8]

it works for Watchmen because it makes the images look like still comic book panels.

Why is this a good thing? It's a movie. Moving pictures.

[Watashi]

Poster:

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/705/watchmenteaserposterqc3.jpg

*boner*

[Watashi]

Oh, and I don't mind the slow-motion one bit.

The test screenings say that the slow-motion isn't overbearing and only used in pivotal "money shot scenes". The opening fight in the Comedian's apartment is "fast and frantic" according to reviews.

[Dukefrukem]

I must be the only one not affected by the slow fast slow fast slow fast stuff

[Watashi]

I don't think meg was complaining about the slow-fast motion in his post, just noting it was there.

The movie is 3 hours long. Common sense tells you that Snyder isn't going to do it in every other scene.

Plus, even though 300 was dreadful, Snyder's direction wasn't the problem, it was the script and Miller's source material.

And yes, I will be very defensive of this movie until it comes out, but I'll be the first to admit it if I'm wrong and the film becomes the epic unfilmable trainwreck that people predicted.

[Dukefrukem]

And yes, I will be very defensive of this movie until it comes out, but I'll admit it if I'm wrong and the film becomes the epic unfilmable trainwreck that people predicticed.

A lot of people thought 300 was going to be amazing. It was a financial success, but a mess. I don't see a graphic novel like this turning into what 300 was... At the very least, it will be on Sin City level.

[Watashi]

A lot of people thought 300 was going to be amazing. It was a financial success, but a mess. I don't see a graphic novel like this turning into what 300 was... At the very least, it will be on Sin City level.

Well, I hate both 300 and Sin City, but I just don't plain like Frank Miller. I have confidence that Watchmen's story will be strong enough for Snyder's flashy editing.

[Ezee E]

That poster is awesome.

I'll watch the trailer when i get home.

[Sven]

Plus, even though 300 was dreadful, Snyder's direction wasn't the problem, it was the script and Miller's source material.
I believe his direction was very much the problem. Well, ONE OF the problems, anyway. One could hardly call it a bad film and maintain that its direction was solid. Ugly and schizophrenic crafting. I'm still miffed that Snyder showed such potential with Dawn of the Dead and squandered it on video game aesthetics.

[Ezee E]

I believe his direction was very much the problem. Well, ONE OF the problems, anyway. One could hardly call it a bad film and maintain that its direction was solid. Ugly and schizophrenic crafting. I'm still miffed that Snyder showed such potential with Dawn of the Dead and squandered it on video game aesthetics.
Dawn of the Dead had some slow-motion, but not nearly as much as 300. I'd have thought they were different directors because the action in DotD is very impressive. 300's is just silly.

[Watashi]

I believe his direction was very much the problem. Well, ONE OF the problems, anyway. One could hardly call it a bad film and maintain that its direction was solid. Ugly and schizophrenic crafting. I'm still miffed that Snyder showed such potential with Dawn of the Dead and squandered it on video game aesthetics.

A film can be bad even if it has solid direction. I never said Snyder's direction was amazing, but the slow-fast mo battle scenes weren't the cause of my negative reaction, but more of the offensive homoerotic and homophobic undertones all through out the film.

I'm not defending Snyder, but from interviews, he seems like the knowledgeable chap and knows the position he's in adapting the mother of all comic books. I'm more interested in what Synder does to separate himself from the others instead of just doing a panel-by-panel adaptation. It all depends on the script and since we haven't heard any dialogue yet (well, one line), it's hard to judge the film on a deeper level.

[Sven]

A film can be bad even if it has solid direction.

I did not mean to imply that this could never be the case. I'm just saying that I find it hard to believe one could defend the direction of that picture when the result was so laughable and clunky and confusing. Those scenes with Dominic West are some of the worst scenes I've ever seen in a theater. And most of the graphic stuff (like the oracle dancing and Xerxes's procession) were total Clicheville.

[Watashi]

I did not mean to imply that this could never be the case. I'm just saying that I find it hard to believe one could defend the direction of that picture when the result was so laughable and clunky and confusing. Those scenes with Dominic West are some of the worst scenes I've ever seen in a theater. And most of the graphic stuff (like the oracle dancing and Xerxes's procession) were total Clicheville.

Oh, I agree with you, iosos. West was terrible and even back to Dawn of the Dead, Snyder has been terrible with actors (which is why I'm worried about Watchmen because Snyder is only focusing on visuals on the moments and not on the acting).

But you already know your position on this matter, iosos and you've have had terrible vibes since the announcement of this film way back then.

Okay, iosos?

I'm glad we settled this, iosos.

[Sven]

I'm glad we settled this, iosos.

Hey, I'm as open-minded as anyone. But it is human to have doubts. I'm merely expressing those. And when others express optimism in the face of those concrete doubts, it's hard not to confront it. I'm probably going to see the movie (unless the reviews are resoundingly bad, which from the look of the picture, is entirely possible if not likely), but I will be doing it with baggage, for to deny that history is to deny what it is to be a human being--namely, the capacity to relate external stimuli to stored memory in abstract ways, incorporating cultural knowledge.

[Watashi]

Hey, I'm as open-minded as anyone. But it is human to have doubts. I'm merely expressing those. And when others express optimism in the face of those concrete doubts, it's hard not to confront it. I'm probably going to see the movie (unless the reviews are resoundingly bad, which from the look of the picture, is entirely possible if not likely), but I will be doing it with baggage, for to deny that history is to deny what it is to be a human being--namely, the capacity to relate external stimuli to stored memory in abstract ways, incorporating cultural knowledge.

I'm just glad that the film is finally coming out proving all the naysayers that the book is unfilmable. Even if the film suffers from terrible reviews, some producer and director took a gamble worth taking.

Plus, The Dark Knight got fantastic reviews all around the board and all the hype was lost on you (then again, do you even care about marketing?), so if Watchmen is a huge hit and you dislike it, someone will always say "aren't you the fellow who also disliked The Dark Knight?"

[Dukefrukem]

Well, I hate both 300 and Sin City, but I just don't plain like Frank Miller. I have confidence that Watchmen's story will be strong enough for Snyder's flashy editing.

Just for the record, I do as well.

[Sven]

I'm just glad that the film is finally coming out proving all the naysayers that the book is unfilmable. Even if the film suffers from terrible reviews, some producer and director took a gamble worth taking.

This is a remarkably ass-backward way of looking at it. Just because someone DOES film it does not mean that it is filmable. It means they tried. And assuming the film sucks, it could mean that they tried but in order to do so had to compromise the script to a debilitating degree in order to succeed. That is not something worthy of applause.


Plus, The Dark Knight got fantastic reviews all around the board and all the hype was lost on you (then again, do you even care about marketing?), so if Watchmen is a huge hit and you dislike it, someone will always say "aren't you the fellow who also disliked The Dark Knight?"

And they are dumb to say that. Here you are too forgiving of hype as indicative of a film's quality. I've already gotten the "You're the guy that likes/dislikes ________" an incalculable amount of times, and each time it comes across more desperate and foolhardy than the last. I didn't buy into the hype (because I honestly do not care about the marketability of a film, though I find it fascinating in its own right as a science), but that's no excuse to invalidate an opinion.

[Dukefrukem]

There's no need for namecalling.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, the trailer is really no different then the last one in my opinion.

Luckily it seems like it's just a compilation of "big shots" in the movie, edited to the Smashing Pumpkins song. I doubt many of those shots will remain slow or fast.

Hopefully I am right on that.

[number8]

That poster looks like shit.

[Watashi]

That poster looks like shit.

I'm sure the film will be better than Transformers 2.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I'm sure the film will be better than Transformers 2.

There's a goal to aim for...

[Ezee E]

That poster looks like shit.
crazy talk.

[Amnesiac]

I'm not entirely sure what it is but I think there is something a bit off about that poster. I really like the concept, and I can admit it has some visual flair, but... I don't know, I guess it seems a bit too artificial? The tag-line on the building doesn't feel right, either.

[number8]

I'm sure the film will be better than Transformers 2.

I don't follow.

[Sven]

That poster looks like shit.

It really does. It looks exactly like PC Gaming advertisements.

[SirNewt]

Just read Watchmen. Period.

I'll watch the trailer when I'm in a computer with sound.

OK, I will but not because you told me to.

[number8]

OK, I will but not because you told me to.

Yah, do it because I did.

[Grouchy]

OK, I will but not because you told me to.
Do it because God tells you to.

Fuck-hell, I hate the Smashing Pumpkins. Spoiled rich fuckers with issues. They should be mailed to Africa with a broom up their collective anuses.

[megladon8]

CBR posted the new trailer in better quality. (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18566)

[EvilShoe]

Do it because God tells you to.

Fuck-hell, I hate the Smashing Pumpkins. Spoiled rich fuckers with issues. They should be mailed to Africa with a broom up their collective anuses.
Malkmus said it best:

Out on tour with the smashing pumpkins
Nature kids, they don't have no function
I dont understand what they mean
And I could really give a fuck.

[Sxottlan]

I must be the only one not affected by the slow fast slow fast slow fast stuff.

It doesn't bother me. In fact I like it quite a bit.

[Watashi]

Another poster:

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=50342]

I must collect them all.

[number8]

Yeah, I don't like that either.

Not trying to be difficult, but those colors are awful.

[Qrazy]

I have to agree with the naysayers on the first poster... the symmetry is just way off... especially between the button, the falling guy and the text... it's incredibly awkward.

[Kurosawa Fan]

That run-on sentence is driving me nuts. And I'm with 8, it's an ugly color scheme.

[number8]

The audience for this movie makes me weep.

"the comedian is the best character! A hero that shots the woman that's carrying his baby! Bad A$$"

Yes, I'm a Watchmen elitist. But if I've learned something from the election, it's that elitist should never refer to something negative. It's a prestige, goddammit.

[MadMan]

That poster looks like shit.I don't think of it as harshly as number8 does, but I don't like the first poster, either. I can't see the second poster as it appears that the site that Wats linked to must have taken it down or something.

[Ezee E]

If they change anything in the book, I hope they get rid of the midget crimelord in the prison. It's something that will just be horrible on film I think. Otherwise, that prison scene will probably be the highlight of the movie.

[Sycophant]

The audience for this movie makes me weep.

"the comedian is the best character! A hero that shots the woman that's carrying his baby! Bad A$$"

Yes, I'm a Watchmen elitist. But if I've learned something from the election, it's that elitist should never refer to something negative. It's a prestige, goddammit.

See, people? This is why we can't have nice things!

[KK2.0]

the slo-mo is the least of my worries.

i've heard rumors about the so called ending change and i couldn't help but read the spoilers... omg i hated it. i'm still hoping it's fake, but...:frustrated:

[Dead & Messed Up]

the slo-mo is the least of my worries.

i've heard rumors about the so called ending change and i couldn't help but read the spoilers... omg i hated it. i'm still hoping it's fake, but...:frustrated:

What did you hear? I ask because I heard an ending switch, and I actually didn't think it was too bad.

[MadMan]

Okay people I finally picked up the book. It better be good. Not that I care extremely though, considering I rented it and didn't buy it. So far I like what I'm reading though.

[Amnesiac]

the slo-mo is the least of my worries.

i've heard rumors about the so called ending change and i couldn't help but read the spoilers... omg i hated it. i'm still hoping it's fake, but...:frustrated:

Does it involve the whole...

lack of a giant squid thing?

[EvilShoe]

More new posters:
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=50416

lol @ Ozy

[Sven]

lol @ Ozy

His tag line totally gives it all away. :confused:

[KK2.0]

What did you hear? I ask because I heard an ending switch, and I actually didn't think it was too bad.


Does it involve the whole...

lack of a giant squid thing?

Yes, but it`s not only the squid per se but the reasons behind it that puzzled me.

I've heard they changed the squid for atomic bombs that blow up several cities around the world, which screws up the whole point of creating something out of this world in order to unite the world. But the worst part is that the bombs were used to simulate Dr. Manhattan's powers and wtf does that mean? Mankind will then join forces against him??

I`ll watch the movie, and maybe this will make more sense within the script. After all, what`s the point of being faithful to the minimal details and screw up royally with the goddam ending, right? (looking at Snyder :evil: )

the ominous image of Alan Moore laughing at this film`s failure haunts my dreams.

[number8]

These posters just get shittier and shittier.

They started out great with an original Dave Gibbons art, and now we have a series of gum ads.

[Kurosawa Fan]

These posters just get shittier and shittier.


They will most certainly be representative of the quality of the film. I know that's a sturdy limb I'm out on, but I'm saying it anyway.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Yes, but it`s not only the squid per se but the reasons behind it that puzzled me.

I've heard they changed the squid for atomic bombs that blow up several cities around the world, which screws up the whole point of creating something out of this world in order to unite the world. But the worst part is that the bombs were used to simulate Dr. Manhattan's powers and wtf does that mean? Mankind will then join forces against him??

I`ll watch the movie, and maybe this will make more sense within the script. After all, what`s the point of being faithful to the minimal details and screw up royally with the goddam ending, right? (looking at Snyder :evil: )

the ominous image of Alan Moore laughing at this film`s failure haunts my dreams.

The idea is that Dr. Manhattan replaces the Squid as the otherworldly threat. All that matters to the story is that the threat supersede human squabbles. Dr. Manhattan fits the bill just fine.

And, in the version I read, Veidt was funding much of Manhattan's research - his true intentions were to study Manhattan's abilities to the point that he could recreate them.

Honestly...I can't say that I'll really miss the squid.

[number8]

Er, not really, DaMU. That doesn't work. Because:

The whole point of the plan is not just that it's an otherwordly threat, but it's an alien threat. The nations unite because they have to face something beyond their borders. Dr. Manhattan is American and is used by the American government. Even if he is viewed as an outsider socially, politically the fact that the Americans are in possession of this threat wouldn't unite the world. It would just further the Cold War, which is what happened in the book.

[KK2.0]

thank you ary.


imagine if any city in the world gets blew up by Dr Manhattan, an american weapon of mass destruction desguised as a naked blue man... Does Snyder and the script writer's didn't understand the book?

It's actually so obvious that i can't help but think they changed a lot of things in the story to fit this new ending, or it's a fake rumor. But I've learned to never underestimate Hollywood's ability to ruin things.

[Sycophant]

Judging by Snyder's comments on 300, one is led to believe that he has absolutely no mind for reading comprehension or subtext--those of the works he's adapting or his own version of them.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Er, not really, DaMU. That doesn't work. Because:

The whole point of the plan is not just that it's an otherwordly threat, but it's an alien threat. The nations unite because they have to face something beyond their borders. Dr. Manhattan is American and is used by the American government. Even if he is viewed as an outsider socially, politically the fact that the Americans are in possession of this threat wouldn't unite the world. It would just further the Cold War, which is what happened in the book.

Manhattan went along with the USA, but, given his powers, I never read the comic as Manhattan being "owned" by anybody.

The script I read had Veidt taking out three or four cities across the globe, including NYC. That makes Manhattan a threat to everyone, including the USA. The idea, to use the parlance of our times, is convince people that Manhattan has gone rogue.

[Raiders]

Plus, Dr. Manhattan does sort of live, or at least meditate, on Mars. He's not exactly a typical Earthling.

He's also blue, can change his size, is emotionless, is rather God-like, views humans from a distance...

[KK2.0]

there are several implications to that change, i want to see Snyder's version before asking for his head on a plate, but i'm worried.

[number8]

Manhattan went along with the USA, but, given his powers, I never read the comic as Manhattan being "owned" by anybody.

The script I read had Veidt taking out three or four cities across the globe, including NYC. That makes Manhattan a threat to everyone, including the USA. The idea, to use the parlance of our times, is convince people that Manhattan has gone rogue.

Yes, I know what the change is, but there is a vast difference between an outside threat and an American tool going rogue. Maybe not plot-wise but certainly in the political implication.

Look, Alan Moore wrote Manhattan as a parable for the atom bomb. Like a non-sentient bomb, Manhattan has no loyalty to America, but he was developed in America and used first by America, thus the super-scary Cold War they had going in the book. The idea was already that Manhattan's presence causes the US to become a superpower nation and forcing countries like Russia to nuke-arm themselves up the gills, just waiting for the US to use Manhattan against them. He was already a threat. Veidt stopped this Manhattan threat by introducing a third party: an alien hoax that would force everyone to stop the "my cock is bigger than yours" arms race and work together towards peace. So how exactly would Snyder's film stop the Manhattan threat by having Veidt engineer a Manhattan threat?

Maybe the movie makes a satisfying explanation as to how this would work, but it would still be combining metaphors. It's sloppy.

[Raiders]

Yes, I know what the change is, but there is a vast difference between an outside threat and an American tool going rogue. Maybe not plot-wise but certainly in the political implication.

Look, Alan Moore wrote Manhattan as a parable for the atom bomb. Like a non-sentient bomb, Manhattan has no loyalty to America, but he was developed in America and used first by America, thus the super-scary Cold War they had going in the book. The idea was already that Manhattan's presence causes the US to become a superpower nation and forcing countries like Russia to nuke-arm themselves up the gills, just waiting for the US to use Manhattan against them. He was already a threat. Veidt stopped this Manhattan threat by introducing a third party: an alien hoax that would force everyone to stop the "my cock is bigger than yours" arms race and work together towards peace. So how exactly would Snyder's film stop the Manhattan threat by having Veidt engineer a Manhattan threat?

Maybe the movie makes a satisfying explanation as to how this would work, but it would still be combining metaphors. It's sloppy.

Still, it seems it would be a fine idea to have an accidental invention of man, used by man to generate its own cock-race and put man at odds with each other, be the instrument of Veidt's plan to unite mankind. A "see how your evils can overtake you?" kind of thing. A come to Jesus for the human race, if you will.

Sure, it takes out the manufactured dues ex machina Veidt employed, but it's more poetic and less likely to elicit guffaws from the crowd at the sight of

a hulking, CGI squid.
Some things just don't translate to cinema.

[number8]

Some things just don't translate to cinema.

*cough*

[Amnesiac]

Some things just don't translate to cinema.

Nah, I think that aspect of the novel could still be done right. With gravitas, too. Only if it had the right budget and talent behind it. It's not beyond the realm of possibility.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Yes, I know what the change is, but there is a vast difference between an outside threat and an American tool going rogue. Maybe not plot-wise but certainly in the political implication.

Look, Alan Moore wrote Manhattan as a parable for the atom bomb. Like a non-sentient bomb, Manhattan has no loyalty to America, but he was developed in America and used first by America, thus the super-scary Cold War they had going in the book. The idea was already that Manhattan's presence causes the US to become a superpower nation and forcing countries like Russia to nuke-arm themselves up the gills, just waiting for the US to use Manhattan against them. He was already a threat. Veidt stopped this Manhattan threat by introducing a third party: an alien hoax that would force everyone to stop the "my cock is bigger than yours" arms race and work together towards peace. So how exactly would Snyder's film stop the Manhattan threat by having Veidt engineer a Manhattan threat?

Maybe the issue then lies with our interpretations of Alan Moore's character. In my readings, yes, he clearly embodies elements of the Nuclear Age, but I interpreted him less as a parable for the bomb and more as a parable for the possibility of genuine "supermen." As a Nietzchean superior that is able to view our struggles from a more distant perspective. Moore ends the story by making Manhattan into a near-literal version of God, leaving Earth to create his own life. In that regard, he's clearly an Other with a capital "o" by the end of the story, untethered to humanity, let alone the United States.

Going by that viewpoint, the Cold War would likely be halted by Manhattan sending a "message" to humanity. Of course it would be tenuous, but Veidt's solution was equally tenuous. No matter what, the ending concludes with Ozymandias cutting the Gordian Knot instead of solving it.

[Sycophant]

a hulking, CGI squid.
Some things just don't translate to cinema.
That's why they should go practical.

Practical effects FTFW!

[Raiders]

*cough*

Hey, I've never thought this project stood much chance.

[Watashi]

The character posters are the first bit of marketing that have rubbed me the wrong way.

I can already see the action figures and Burger King tie-ins coming this way. Not really in Snyder's control, but meh.

[Sven]

I can already see the action figures and Burger King tie-ins coming this way. Not really in Snyder's control, but meh.

For a rated R film? I don't think so...

[The Mike]

I have no problem with the new posters. The goal is to get an audience, and 99% of moviegoers have no idea what this movie is. You gotta get 'em in the seats somehow.

I still think this movie will turn out pretty darn good, even if there is no way it'll hit the book's level. It's not like it'll be the first time that's happened.

[Ezee E]

The character posters are the first bit of marketing that have rubbed me the wrong way.

I can already see the action figures and Burger King tie-ins coming this way. Not really in Snyder's control, but meh.
Get your Comedian action figure. This time with raping pelvic thrust!

[Sven]

Get your Comedian action figure. This time with raping pelvic thrust!

NOW--with Gook Killing capabilities!

[number8]

Er, they are making action figures.

[Sycophant]

Yeah, of course there will be. A fast food tie-in isn't really likely if it keeps its R-rating. Otherwise, this will be promoted just like any other superhero movie, with action figures, collectibles, posters, whatever.

And they'll happily merchandise the Comedian to accommodate those who come away from the movie with a new, badass hero.

[KK2.0]

And a Comedian solo movie should follow, directed by Brett Ratner of course.

[number8]

Just so you know, Snyder's contract includes sequels. Don't be making jokes just yet.

[KK2.0]

Snyder said he won't make any sequels, but we all know he can't control the money-hungry studios that will probably force him to, at least, put his name on the credits as an executive producer.

[Sycophant]

This franchise will have at least five films in it, the last two of which may be direct to DVD.

[Grouchy]

Still, it seems it would be a fine idea to have an accidental invention of man, used by man to generate its own cock-race and put man at odds with each other, be the instrument of Veidt's plan to unite mankind. A "see how your evils can overtake you?" kind of thing. A come to Jesus for the human race, if you will.
Thus, making a completely different movie from Moore's writings.

Pretty much how V for Vendetta, while still being a good superhero/vengeance movie on its own, completely betrayed the ideology and moral paradox behind the comics and made it simpler and easier to swallow. Or, to put it more bluntly...


Some things just don't translate to cinema
Like Watchmen.

[Grouchy]

Plus, Ozymandias looks like rejected concept art from Batman & Robin.

And I mean REJECTED art for that movie.

[Skitch]

The idea of sequels is not remotely funny.

[Saya]

There is already a Watchmen prequel videogame in the works so I guess a prequel movie adaptation wouldn't be completely out of the question.

[D_Davis]

Watchwomen

[Winston*]

Watchwomen

Watchmen and a Baby

[Watashi]

There is already a Watchmen prequel videogame in the works so I guess a prequel movie adaptation wouldn't be completely out of the question.
Link?

[number8]

http://thenerdofher.files.wordpress.c om/2008/02/watchmen-babies.jpg

[number8]

Link?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen:_The_End_is_Nigh

[Watashi]

Goddamnit Warner Bros.

I will fucking kill you.

[Sycophant]

Watchmen and a Baby

Steve Gutenberg or GTFO!

[Wryan]

12 Angry Watchmen

We could really do this all day, couldn't we?

[Ezee E]

An Officer and a Watchman

[Wryan]

Night Watchmen

[Wryan]

Last one and I'm done:

Silent Night, Deadly Night III: Better Watchmen Out!

[number8]

WATCH! In the Name of Love

[Raiders]

All Along the Watchmen

[KK2.0]

The Simpsons pwns all of you so far

[Wryan]

The Simpsons pwns all of you so far

Don't think I don't notice your conspicuous lack of entry. It reflects poorly on your balls.

[number8]

The Simpsons pwns all of you so far

Since I posted the picture, clearly that makes me the winner of this thread.

[Skitch]

Watchwomen


:confused:

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


Awesome.

[Skitch]

All Along the Watchmen

Get out of my mind!

[Sycophant]

The Simpsons pwns all of you so farWrong. Winston* suggested Watchmen and a Baby and that is fucking awesome.

[EyesWideOpen]

There's a good article in the new issue of EGM that gave me some hope for the game. It's being written by Len Wein who is Alan Moore's mentor and the creator of Swamp Thing and Wolverine.

They asked him what would he say to hardcore Watchmen fans to change their minds about the game and his response was: "I think i'd ask them to keep an open mind until they actually see what we've done. I'm a fan myself, and there's always an inclination to despise change just for the sake of despising it. We love and respect the original graphic novel every bit as much as you do--maybe more, if that's possible. Nothing we've done has been done lightly and without much serious consideration. Loosen up and you're in for a heck of a ride."

[megladon8]

What's so bad about there being action figures to tie in with the movie?

It's not like there weren't already tons of "Watchmen" action figures and fan merchandise available.

[Ezee E]

There's a good article in the new issue of EGM that gave me some hope for the game. It's being written by Len Wein who is Alan Moore's mentor and the creator of Swamp Thing and Wolverine.

They asked him what would he say to hardcore Watchmen fans to change their minds about the game and his response was: "I think i'd ask them to keep an open mind until they actually see what we've done. I'm a fan myself, and there's always an inclination to despise change just for the sake of despising it. We love and respect the original graphic novel every bit as much as you do--maybe more, if that's possible. Nothing we've done has been done lightly and without much serious consideration. Loosen up and you're in for a heck of a ride."
He had me until he told me to expect a wild ride.

[Watashi]

I fucking hate Len Wein. Such a terrible writer.

I'm sure the game will be solid, but it's still wrong.

[EyesWideOpen]

He had me until he told me to expect a wild ride.

Why would that throw you off? The game is based on the early team up days of Rorshach and Nite Owl before the Keene Act.

[EyesWideOpen]

I fucking hate Len Wein. Such a terrible writer.

I'm sure the game will be solid, but it's still wrong.

That's the stupidest thing you've ever said.

[Watashi]

The dude has written some of the worst Batman: TAS episodes ever.

[EyesWideOpen]

The dude has written some of the worst Batman: TAS episodes ever.

The guy's been writing since the 60's of course theirs going to be some duds that doesn't make him a terrible writer.

[number8]

I can't think of a single thing I like about Len Wein other than his creation of Lucius Fox. I don't even like his X-Men.

But anyway, Rorschach/Nite Owl beat-em-up game, where it's just them fighting crime, before all the politics that made Watchmen Watchmen even entered into the picture. Yeah, I don't think I care. It's just nostalgia, to borrow a theme from the book.

But whatever, meg is right. There's nothing wrong with expecting merchandise up the wazoo from this movie. DC already did it in the years following the book's release. It's sequels that we should laugh about.

[Grouchy]

Well, Len Wein did create Swamp Thing and Wolverine. Later writers made those characters a lot more badass and wrote better stories with them, sure, but he created the characters on the first place.

But, yeah, none of the comics actually written by Wein that I've read have impressed me.

[Watashi]

New trailer (http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/watchmen.html?showVideo=1)

Good first half, but the music choice is just god-awful in the second half.

[Watashi]

Yeah, I don't really care for this trailer.

*keeps hope up*

[Ezee E]

Damn that music at the end really is horrible.

A lot of this isn't transitioning well to screen. The look of the characters, the overuse of slo-mo... Ick.

[Watashi]

The slow-motion is fine.

I just hope the casting doesn't come back to bite them.

I would have much preferred to see original choices of Paddy Considine as Rorscach and Kate Winslet as Silk Spectre.

Plus Keanu as Manhattan.

[Watashi]

Ha. Apparently Jackie Earle Haley used Moore's Rorschach impression to model his own.

Watch here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKebCtCTbCA

Awesome.

[Watashi]

I hate how Snyder changed the name of Crimebusters to Watchmen. Talk about missing the entire point of the novel, Zack.

*still has hopes up*

[Raiders]

I hate how Snyder changed the name of Crimebusters to Watchmen. Talk about missing the entire point of the novel, Zack.

Let's face it. This is simply going to be a moody, un-heroic superhero film. It isn't really going to go any further, and that's probably for the best. As bad as it may turn out, I think trying to really adapt all of Moore's intent would just make a hellish film.

[Watashi]

Let's face it. This is simply going to be a moody, un-heroic superhero film. It isn't really going to go any further, and that's probably for the best. As bad as it may turn out, I think trying to really adapt all of Moore's intent would just make a hellish film.
At least we know it will be better than LXG.

I still enjoy V for Vendetta a great deal, and heard decent things about From Hell.

[Ezee E]

From Hell is by far the best of Moore's works. That may not say much, but I liked V For Vendetta also.

[Ivan Drago]

Is it pretty much a foregone conclusion that the new trailer will play before Quantum of Solace?

[The Mike]

Is it pretty much a foregone conclusion that the new trailer will play before Quantum of Solace?

I'm pretty certain that's confirmed.

[Skitch]

Yeah, I don't really care for this trailer.

*keeps hope up*

Ditto.

[MadMan]

Having just read the novel, I'm now skeptical as to whether or not it can even be made into a movie. If it captures even a 1/3rd of the graphic novel I'll probably consider that good, all things considered. And the new trailer is not good. The first one was much better.

[Grouchy]

Wow, you filmed the novel already? Why didn't you say so? You would've saved Warner a fine buck, I tell you.

[MadMan]

Wow, you filmed the novel already? Why didn't you say so? You would've saved Warner a fine buck, I tell you.Why the hell did I write "filmed?" I meant, "read." Hmm, I seemed to have accidentally crossed the two. Although I suppose you could film the novel using action figures and post it on YouTube :P

Or with Legos:

http://members.cox.net/djoakes/watchmen.jpg

[Grouchy]

I actually just imagined something incredible.

Film the novel with a shot-by-shot approach, six hours long, and with Legos. Five hours long. Alan Moore approved.

You know, I'm starting to think about getting together a group of highly deranged people and do it.

[MadMan]

I actually just imagined something incredible.

Film the novel with a shot-by-shot approach, six hours long, and with Legos. Five hours long. Alan Moore approved.

You know, I'm starting to think about getting together a group of highly deranged people and do it.:lol: That would be pretty awesome. Go for it man.

[number8]

Yeah, that looks pretty much like LXG.

[KK2.0]

i thought the trailer was ok, like it was said here, i expect the movie to be just like From Hell or V, which means, fun but vastly inferior in comparison to the books.

I didn't even like 300, but it's still miles better than the pièce de merde called LXG.


Don't think I don't notice your conspicuous lack of entry. It reflects poorly on your balls.

I'm a critic, not an artist. :P

[eternity]

Good trailer, dagnabbit.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8256/watchmen2xr8.jpg

[Watashi]

Yeah, that looks pretty much like LXG.
You know you're just saying that.

[The Mike]

Yeah, that looks pretty much like LXG.Well, Connery would make it look cooler.

[number8]

You know you're just saying that.

Come on. The only thing missing is The Comedian making quips.

[Ivan Drago]

Good trailer, dagnabbit.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8256/watchmen2xr8.jpg

Agreed.

[EyesWideOpen]

I thought the trailer was great and I liked the music.

[Saya]

First pics of the Watchmen prequel videogame (http://games.tiscali.cz/news/news.asp?id=30268&r=top)

http://xs433.xs.to/xs433/08471/watchmengame3479.jpg

[Grouchy]

I'm just thinking here... In that videogame, you're supposed to play either with Nite Owl or Roscharch, right?

Who the fuck is going to choose Nite Owl? They might just as well not program the character, since everyone and their mom will play with Roscharch.

[Wryan]

I like From Hell. C'mon. Ian Holm, people.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Well, Connery would make it look cooler.

Every movie should have Connery come in at a critical moment, arch his eyebrow, and announce, "The game ish on."

[Ezee E]

I'm just thinking here... In that videogame, you're supposed to play either with Nite Owl or Roscharch, right?

Who the fuck is going to choose Nite Owl? They might just as well not program the character, since everyone and their mom will play with Roscharch.
True story.

[eternity]

Watchmen videogame? Ew.

[MadMan]

Every movie should have Connery come in at a critical moment, arch his eyebrow, and announce, "The game ish on."Yep. Or at least hire Darrell Hammond to impersonate him doing it.

[KK2.0]

I like From Hell. C'mon. Ian Holm, people.

I like it too.

But maybe Christopher Nolan is the only working filmmaker who can do justice to Moore's work.

[thefourthwall]

New trailer (http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/watchmen.html?showVideo=1)

Good first half, but the music choice is just god-awful in the second half.


Damn that music at the end really is horrible.


Re: music--it's only a single song playing throughout--Muse's "Time is Running Out," which seems pretty appropriate--so, why the hate for only half of it?

[Spun Lepton]

Yeah, I'm all over this.

Trailer music is fine.

[Ezee E]

Re: music--it's only a single song playing throughout--Muse's "Time is Running Out," which seems pretty appropriate--so, why the hate for only half of it?
Because the second half of the song is godawful.

[Lasse]

Re: music--it's only a single song playing throughout--Muse's "Time is Running Out," which seems pretty appropriate--so, why the hate for only half of it?

If I remember correctly, it's Take A Bow and not Time Is Running Out.

[thefourthwall]

If I remember correctly, it's Take A Bow and not Time Is Running Out.

Eh. You're right. Still seems apropos though.

[eternity]

I like it too.

But maybe Christopher Nolan is the only working filmmaker who can do justice to Moore's work.
Nolan is one of the last people I would want working on an Alan Moore project.

[number8]

Yah, I don't see Nolan really gelling with Alan Moore's stories. Moore's work is more... Hmm... Terry Gilliam.

[eternity]

Yah, I don't see Nolan really gelling with Alan Moore's stories. Moore's work is more... Hmm... Terry Gilliam.

Agreed, which is pretty funny since Gilliam was convinced that Moore's stories (specifically, Watchmen) should never be made into a film.:lol:

[[ETM]]

Agreed, which is pretty funny since Gilliam was convinced that Moore's stories (specifically, Watchmen) should never be made into a film.:lol:

That's true for all the best stories, but once we're past the initial assumption, and it's established that the film IS gonna be made... yeah, Gilliam's a good choice.

[eternity]

;114004']That's true for all the best stories, but once we're past the initial assumption, and it's established that the film IS gonna be made... yeah, Gilliam's a good choice.

Mhm. If anyone was to have actually made Watchmen, Gilliam was a damn good pick. I wish it would have happened, but Gilliam was wise in his decision not to appease Moore.

[number8]

;114004']That's true for all the best stories...

Maybe, but that's not why they shouldn't make Moore's stories, though. I believe this is why Gilliam eventually bowed out of the production: Moore's stories are often meta-fiction and alludes to comic book history. He likes to tie his stories into the medium he works in. I mean, Watchmen could have been a book-length example of Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics. A lot of movie adaptations can capture the spirit and meaning of a book, but that's hard to do when the meaning would change when presented in another medium.

Anyway, I remember that Moore did like one Watchmen script he read, it was the one by David Hayter who was writing it for Paul Greengrass. It was the one that updated the story to present day, with the current political crisis. Moore said it was the closest anyone could ever come to turning Watchmen into a movie.

[Spun Lepton]

Maybe, but that's not why they shouldn't make Moore's stories, though. I believe this is why Gilliam eventually bowed out of the production: Moore's stories are often meta-fiction and alludes to comic book history. He likes to tie his stories into the medium he works in. I mean, Watchmen could have been a book-length example of Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics. A lot of movie adaptations can capture the spirit and meaning of a book, but that's hard to do when the meaning would change when presented in another medium.

Seems like that may be Snyder's take, too. In adapting it from comic to film, he's making it meta-fiction, too, but in reference to other superhero films rather than comics. (Thus, nipples on Ozy's suit.)

[Qrazy]

Agreed, which is pretty funny since Gilliam was convinced that Moore's stories (specifically, Watchmen) should never be made into a film.:lol:

Yeah but he did want to do a five part miniseries. Alternatively they could have pulled a Kill Bill/Matrix scenario. The problem though is that no one wants to give Gilliam the money it would take him to put it on the screen.

[EyesWideOpen]

Yeah to be fair giving Gilliam money for a film is not a good business decision.

[megladon8]

New trailer in HD. (http://movies.apple.com/movies/wb/watchmen/watchmen-tlr2_480p.mov)

I've got a problem with some of the voices.

Rorschach sounds like one of those YouTube kids doing a Bale-as-Batman impression.

Also, Doc Manhattan doesn't sound right. I always imagined his voice changing significantly when he became the frontman of the Blue Man Group. He sounds too...human. He should sound like God.

[Qrazy]

New trailer in HD. (http://movies.apple.com/movies/wb/watchmen/watchmen-tlr2_480p.mov)

I've got a problem with some of the voices.

Rorschach sounds like one of those YouTube kids doing a Bale-as-Batman impression.

Also, Doc Manhattan doesn't sound right. I always imagined his voice changing significantly when he became the frontman of the Blue Man Group. He sounds too...human. He should sound like God.

Rorschach sounds fine to me but I agree about Manhattan. He shouldn't necessarily sound like the booming voice of God but the voice in the trailer doesn't fit at all.

[Ezee E]

Rorschach sounds fine to me but I agree about Manhattan. He shouldn't necessarily sound like the booming voice of God but the voice in the trailer doesn't fit at all.
I picture an Orson Welles-ish voice.

[Qrazy]

I picture an Orson Welles-ish voice.

Agreed.

[The Mike]

I just keep hearing Doc Manhattan saying "A giant platial structure on Mars: Priceless. For everything else, there's Mastercard."

[[ETM]]

I'm reading the graphic novel for the first time (three issues in), and Rorschach doesn't seem like someone who'd have a "cool" voice. He's someone who breaks into your place and eats your cold beans, smells funny, and annoys with his "monotonous voice". I imagine it with a deep, flat tone, boring, not growling like Bale's Batman.

[Qrazy]

;116251']I'm reading the graphic novel for the first time (three issues in), and Rorschach doesn't seem like someone who'd have a "cool" voice. He's someone who breaks into your place and eats your cold beans, smells funny, and annoys with his "monotonous voice". I imagine it with a deep, flat tone, boring, not growling like Bale's Batman.

I dunno I see him as someone who would create such a voice for his alter ego. He may be ugly but he's still pretty hardcore.

[Spun Lepton]

Jack Earle Haley, who's playing Rorschach, is aping the voice that Alan Moore used in an audio recording.

[megladon8]

Laurence Fishburne's voice would be great for Doc Manhattan.

[The Mike]

Laurence Fishburne's voice would be great for Doc Manhattan.
Norrin Radd says that's typecasting.

[megladon8]

Norrin Radd says that's typecasting.


Not if we just forget that...thing...ever happened.

[The Mike]

Not if we just forget that...thing...ever happened.
Truth.

I do find it semi-silly that we're all saying the voice is wrong for something that we...y'know...read.

The more I let it wash over me (plus I've been watching a lot of football with State Farm ads), I don't mind Crudup's voice for it. It's a nice reminder that Doc is just a dude who was involved in a freak incident that resulted in him having all the powers known to man. We can't expect all mutated know-it-alls to be Shakespearean, can we?

[megladon8]

Truth.

I do find it semi-silly that we're all saying the voice is wrong for something that we...y'know...read.

The more I let it wash over me (plus I've been watching a lot of football with State Farm ads), I don't mind Crudup's voice for it. It's a nice reminder that Doc is just a dude who was involved in a freak incident that resulted in him having all the powers known to man. We can't expect all mutated know-it-alls to be Shakespearean, can we?


Not Shakespearean, I just imagined him sounding...deeper. Nothing wrong with him sounding human, it's just Crudup doesn't have the most powerful, authoritative voice, y'know?

But I know what you mean about the regular voice being a nice reminder of his original humanity...I'm torn.

[Qrazy]

Truth.

I do find it semi-silly that we're all saying the voice is wrong for something that we...y'know...read.

The more I let it wash over me (plus I've been watching a lot of football with State Farm ads), I don't mind Crudup's voice for it. It's a nice reminder that Doc is just a dude who was involved in a freak incident that resulted in him having all the powers known to man. We can't expect all mutated know-it-alls to be Shakespearean, can we?

I thought about this too but I still think the voice sounds wrong. And frankly if the guy can burn a hydrogen symbol into his forehead he ought to opt for a more powerful speaking voice to compliment his God complex.

[megladon8]

I thought about this too but I still think the voice sounds wrong. And frankly if the guy can burn a hydrogen symbol into his forehead he ought to opt for a more powerful speaking voice to compliment his God complex.


Is it really a complex when you pretty much are a god?

[Grouchy]

Yeah, I'd say Doc Manhattan doesn't really have a god complex, it's the other way around - his life is more complex because he really is like a god.

Aside from the voices, that trailer fucking sucks.

[MadMan]

I have no problems with any of the voices, honestly. And after watching that trailer a second time, I think its still not good. I have decent, rather sensible expectations for this movie, however.

[The Mike]

I realized that I've been mistaking Patrick Dempsey's voice for Billy Crudup's.

He would have been better than Crudup for a "scientist gone god" character.

[number8]

...Patrick Wilson?

Otherwise, you made a pretty big mistake.

[The Mike]

...Patrick Wilson?

Otherwise, you made a pretty big mistake.No. I heard Patrick Dempsey voicing a commercial and thought it was Billy Crudup and was saying that was OK for Manhattan, untill I realized it was an actor different than the actor playing Manhattan.

So yeah, I did make a pretty big mistake. Just not involving Patrick Wilson.

[Qrazy]

Yeah, I'd say Doc Manhattan doesn't really have a god complex, it's the other way around - his life is more complex because he really is like a god.

Aside from the voices, that trailer fucking sucks.

He's very powerful but he's not all powerful. Yet he considers himself isolated from humanity, he does not understand the struggle of human beings on a personal level (even when he decides to help them survive), and he goes off to most likely create a new species. He thinks he is all knowing even though Ozymandias is able to mess with his space/time comprehension. He says that he can see the future and he won't help humanity but then changes his mind. He's obviously not omniscient but tends to act as if he is, textbook God complex in my opinion, certainly exacerbated by the strength of his powers.

[Qrazy]

Is it really a complex when you pretty much are a god?

If you're not actually a God, then yes. He's a very powerful human being but he's still a human being. He was born human, his consciousness was created human and he remodeled his body in human form. It depends how we're defining God here I suppose under a polytheistic system he could be a demi-God but he's certainly not the omniscient/omnipotent/omnibenevolent creator.

[Grouchy]

He's very powerful but he's not all powerful. Yet he considers himself isolated from humanity, he does not understand the struggle of human beings on a personal level (even when he decides to help them survive), and he goes off to most likely create a new species. He thinks he is all knowing even though Ozymandias is able to mess with his space/time comprehension. He says that he can see the future and he won't help humanity but then changes his mind. He's obviously not omniscient but tends to act as if he is, textbook God complex in my opinion, certainly exacerbated by the strength of his powers.
Yeah, you're right about that. I was talking mostly about the weird way he experiences life, seeing the past and the future at the same moment.

[Qrazy]

Yeah, you're right about that. I was talking mostly about the weird way he experiences life, seeing the past and the future at the same moment.

Well if anybody has a right to think they're a God it's probably him... him and maybe Apocalypse from X-men.

[megladon8]

All nitpicking about voices and stuff aside, I think the weak link in cast/acting will definitely be Malin Akerman.

I haven't seen anything with her that shows she's capable of carrying such a weighty role, let alone anything beyond "hot girl who gets naked a lot".

She looks good in the costume, but the lines she has in the trailer suffer from a serious case of dead eyes. When she says "do it for me" to Doc Manhattan, it's like she's ordering a side of fries.

[Watashi]

Yeeeeeeeeeeees. They finally released the Comic Con trailer (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMovie?id=296582410&s=143441) online. You need iTunes to view it, but it's easily the best trailer they've done for the film so far.

So amazing.

[Melville]

Yeeeeeeeeeeees. They finally released the Comic Con trailer (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMovie?id=296582410&s=143441) online. You need iTunes to view it, but it's easily the best trailer they've done for the film so far.

So amazing.
It looks like melodrama on human growth hormone. I'm starting to see the appeal.

[Watashi]

It looks like melodrama on human growth hormone. I'm starting to see the appeal.
What?

[Melville]

What?
What what? Saying something is on steroids is cliche, so I went with growth hormone.

[Sven]

So amazing.

Which part?

[Watashi]

Which part?
All of it.

[Sven]

All of it.

*yawn*

[Watashi]

What what? Saying something is on steroids is cliche, so I went with growth hormone.
It's exactly how the comic is layed out. I can understand the remark towards something like 300, but not here.

[Watashi]

*yawn*
Well, yeah. But your opinions are the suxxorz.

[Melville]

It's exactly how the comic is layed out. I can understand the remark towards something like 300, but not here.
Huh? The comic is clinical, not overblown melodrama. And I was serious: I am starting to see the appeal. If you're going to go melodramatic, it's best to go all out.

[Sven]

It's exactly how the comic is layed out. I can understand the remark towards something like 300, but not here.

I don't recall slow motion and gothic chanting in the comic's layout.

[Melville]

I don't recall slow motion and gothic chanting in the comic's layout.
We must not have been paying enough attention.

[Sven]

We must not have been paying enough attention.

I think that's why everyone says you have to read it more than once. Obviously some things slip through.

[Watashi]

Huh? The comic is clinical, not overblown melodrama. And I was serious: I am starting to see the appeal. If you're going to go melodramatic, it's best to go all out.
If you're talking about the overblown Phillip Glass music or slow-motion, that's just normal for any trailer. I don't see anything that screams melodrama that I didn't read in the book. But of course, I love big-budget tentpole films like this, but apparently you've already made up your mind.

[Melville]

If you're talking about the overblown Phillip Glass music or slow-motion, that's just normal for any trailer. I don't see anything that screams melodrama that I didn't read in the book. But of course, I love big-budget tentpole films like this, but apparently you've already made up your mind.
If I already made up my mind, how could I have just changed it? I'm confused.

[Sven]

but apparently you've already made up your mind.

You're getting all reductive. Stop it.

[Qrazy]

If I already made up my mind, how could I have just changed it? I'm confused.

You made it up right after you changed it. At each stage of a thought's development the mind has made up!

[Watashi]

You're getting all reductive. Stop it.
Not really. Fans are already pulling a DK and calling it an "orgasmic experience". I have the same optimistic concerns as you guys, but I just think it's a really fucking great well-put together trailer.

And that "gothic chanting" is Philip Glass. Show your respect.

[Melville]

Not really. Fans are already pulling a DK and calling it an "orgasmic experience". I have the same optimistic concerns as you guys, but I just think it's a really fucking great well-put together trailer.
I agree. A great, well-put-together, wildly melodramatic trailer. And yes, the music rocked. It brought the chanting to new levels of awesome.

[Watashi]

At least it will be a handsome looking film.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e17/manythings711/watchmen3.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e17/manythings711/watchmen2.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e17/manythings711/watchmen.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e17/manythings711/watchmen6.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e17/manythings711/watchmen7.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e17/manythings711/watchmen9.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e17/manythings711/watchmen8.jpg

[Watashi]

I agree. A great, well-put-together, wildly melodramatic trailer. And yes, the music rocked. It brought the chanting to new levels of awesome.
Okay then. :)

[Melville]

You made it up right after you changed it. At each stage of a thought's development the mind has made up!
I see. Existence has screwed me again. Stupid existence.

[Sven]

I just think it's a really fucking great well-put together trailer.

Wonderful. But never use the "you've already made up your minds" line of argument ever again because it's one of the most inane.

[Watashi]

Wonderful. But never use the "you've already made up your minds" line of argument ever again because it's one of the most inane.
Well, since you've already made up your mind on how I will respond to this post, I will quietly say good day to you sir.

[Sven]

Well, since you've already made up your mind on how I will respond to this post, I will quietly say good day to you sir.

For the record, I had not.

[Qrazy]

For the record, I had not.

Where is this record? Who's keeping it? How can I get a copy?

[DavidSeven]

This movie is way too in love with its own importance.

[Amnesiac]

This movie is way too in love with its own importance.

Hm. Perhaps this is one of those criticisms that we will see repeatedly after the film debuts.

[Ezee E]

Definitely dig the trailer, and there's a reason that it's good. No dialog. All the dialog I've heard is pretty badly acted in the other trailers.

This does give me a little more hope that it'll at least be great eye candy.

[Dead & Messed Up]

That trailer has me thinking that this film, by being so faithful to its source material, might turn into camp pretty easily.

And that Snyder's slow-motion is getting out of hand. Stop it! Just tell the damn story!

[Watashi]

Devin Faraci from CHUD saw the first 22 minutes. I've bolded the strong points.


It will look and feel like a real movie.

That's a weird thing to say, but there are lots of people out there who, having only seen the trailers released to the public, are jumping to the conclusion that Zack Snyder has made a Watchmen filled with speed ramping and flashy money shots. From what I've seen this isn't even remotely true at all. The footage is stylish - well shot, with rich visuals and dynamic compositions - but it looked more like a modern take on a noir film than anything else. What I saw was moody, sometimes muted. Snyder allows his takes to be long, eschewing a quick cut style that many seem to think would rule the day in this film. The 22 minutes I saw didn't feel like an action film at all (except, of course, for the opening fight scene, which I've already described to you).

It was an interesting choice to show this footage and not just recycle what had been shown to the press. We got money shots in that presentation - The Comedian's death, the prison riot, Jon's origin - while the BNAT crowd got a more realistic representation of what the film would be like. It felt like a calculated decision to convince the fans that Watchmen is not 300 with superheroes.

So here's what I saw, starting after the credits:

The police stare out the broken window of the Comedian's apartment, discussing the crime. 30 stories below a figure holding a sign that reads "The End is Nigh" walks through the puddle of blood that is being sprayed off the sidewalk. The camera zooms away from the building, showing the alternate New York City of the story, filled with zeppelins and a huge Gunga Diner balloon.

Rorschach's narration begins, very faithful to the book. He rappels up the side of the building into the Comedian's apartment. Poking around, he discovers the Comedian's weapons cache and costume. The camera focuses in on a photo of The Minutemen, and then pulls out again, but this time the picture is hanging in Hollis Mason's apartment. We see other photos and newspaper headlines hanging on the wall, and a copy of Beneath the Hood, Mason's memoirs, on the table.

Mason is spinning stories of his days as the Nite Owl to Dan Dreiberg, the second Nite Owl. It's after midnight and Dan gets up to leave; they stop on the porch for a moment as rain falls outside and Hollis asks Dan if he ever misses the good old days. Dan says no, but it seems like he's lying. He leaves Hollis behind, and the camera lingers a moment on the sign for Hollis' auto body shop: Obsolete Models a Speciality. Much of the dialogue in this scene comes straight from the comic.

Dan walks home in the rain, and discovers that his front door has been kicked in. He walks into his brownstone cautiously, only to find Rorschach, mask up, eating cold canned beans at his kitchen table. When Rorschach tells him that the Comedian has been killed (the 'It's human bean juice' joke remains intact), they go down to the basement to talk more.

Again, this scene plays out pretty much the way it does in the book, with Dan and Rorschach discussing who might have killed the Comedian. Dan dismisses Rorschach's claim that it's a mask killer, and here was one of the deviations that might leave fans up in arms: Dan says to Rorschach 'Watchmen are over.'

You may remember there was some controversy when that line, and a Rorschach line about one of the Watchmen being killed turned up in the trailer. The Rorschach line is not delivered in the film the way it is in the trailer - ie, there's no mention of 'Watchmen' - but Dan's line is. Later in the Q&A Haley called the second, brief superhero team The Crimebusters, which leads me to believe means that 'Watchmen' is a phrase used in the film in place of superheroes or alternatively with vigilantes.

As Rorschach walks down the subway tunnel beneath Dan's house, Dan asks him whatever happened to the old days. "You quit," Rorschach responds. Dan sits before the display case of costumes and looks at the Comedian's blood-stained smiley face pin.

That was what we saw. The pace of these scenes were deliberate but not slow; Snyder isn't rushing the introductions of these characters. He's playing it like a drama. Still, I wonder if this stuff will be this way in the finished film - 22 minutes just took us to page 13 of the first issue (although some of Rorschach's voice over in the apartment search comes from his journal entries on page 14). Watching this footage helps you understand why the opening fight scene has been expanded - there's no more real action for some time in the story, and Snyder needs a way to hook virginal viewers into this story, especially because the first half hour is going to be a lot of exposition and background material. Between the credits and Hollis telling his stories there's a solid ten minutes of history; there's more history slipped into the Dan/Rorschach conversation.

The film is packed with details. Every frame seems to have something that lends depth to the world or background to the characters; there were elements in the opening scene that I missed the first time around and only caught here. This is definitely a movie that will have a high replay value, both for the uninitiated and the hardcore fan.

Finally, the performances seemed right on. Maybe it's because I've been seeing more and more of this footage over time, but both Patrick Wilson and Haley seem perfect in their roles. My first look at Stephen McHattie as Hollis Mason was a good one; he gets across a certain air of wistfulness without forcing it. He's also instantly likable, a trait that's key since he'll only be in a few short scenes in the film and his character needs to have an emotional pay off.

Even as a champion of the film I was surprised at how subdued some of this footage was. People who think they have a handle on who Zack Snyder is as a filmmaker are in for a big surprise when they finally get a chance to see Watchmen; neither Dawn of the Dead or 300 define who this guy is.


Yeah, my hope has been refilled.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Yeah, my hope has been refilled.

When was it ever empty?

[Sycophant]

When was it ever empty?

He puts up a brave front for the kids.

[Sven]

He puts up a brave front for the kids.

He be frontin'?

[Sycophant]

He be frontin'?Sometimes frontin' be necessary.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Sometimes frontin' be necessary.

Tru dat.

[D_Davis]

I've gotta say, that trailer looks pretty good.

I like how much color is used.

[Ivan Drago]

Well, you guys can celebrate there being no Watchmen movie now, because Fox won the lawsuit. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/25/business/media/25fox.html?_r=2)

[Henry Gale]

Well that's just dandy.

I doubt they'll shelve it. But if for whatever reason it did come to that, then it would be the kind of disaster that we haven't really ever seen from such a big movie.

Even those saying it should have never been made in the first place would demand to see it.

[eternity]

Watchmen is...over.