Watchmen

[Acapelli]

why does anyone think that fox would rather want wb to shelve this rather than get a cut of the profits without any effort whatsoever

[Saya]

Maybe Fox will turn this into a tv show and cancel it after 3 episodes.

[EyesWideOpen]

why does anyone think that fox would rather want wb to shelve this rather than get a cut of the profits without any effort whatsoever

Exactly, i would give this maybe a 1% chance of getting shelved.

[number8]

Well, it could get shelved if WB decides to fight this and appeal. Years of trials.

[Henry Gale]

Ok I guess it being "shelved" as in held off and never seen again is the wrong term, but any sort of delay would still have a similar reaction. Either way, Fox needs a hit movie soon (though Night At The Museum 2 should still take care of that for them).

[MadMan]

Goddamnit. I was worried this would happen. Stupid Fox.

[Spun Lepton]

I really hope this dick move on Fox's part burns more bridges. The sooner they go under, the better. I am sick to death of their bullshit.

[Spun Lepton]

Cracked.com tells Fox and Rupert Murdoch to "Eat all the dicks."

http://www.cracked.com/blog/fox-can-eat-several-dicks/

The article is too long to cut and paste. Read it, it's funny stuff.

[number8]

By the way, I went to see Gran Torino yesterday and the new trailer was playing before it. Interesting reactions. It was deathly silent afterward followed by a few giggles and murmurs of it looking silly.

After the movie, I overheard a couple talking about the trailer and said they're not going to see it because they don't know any of the characters. Heh.

[eternity]

After the movie, I overheard a couple talking about the trailer and said they're not going to see it because they don't know any of the characters. Heh.
Hearing other people talk after a movie you just saw is quite the anthropologists dream and nightmare. The things you hear can just baffle the hell out of you.

[Ivan Drago]

I really hope this dick move on Fox's part burns more bridges. The sooner they go under, the better. I am sick to death of their bullshit.

Wait...burn more bridges? Fox has done shit like this before?

[[ETM]]

Wait...burn more bridges? Fox has done shit like this before?

Dunno about "like this" but with the TV network canceling any good show they had on, and the objectivity, or lack thereof, of the news channel, there can't be many bridges left.

[Spun Lepton]

Wait...burn more bridges? Fox has done shit like this before?

What [ETM] said. :)

[Ezee E]

I still don't think this will be very successful with people who haven't heard of the Watchmen. The costumes look Spider-Man silly, but are taken more seriously. And it doesn't have the machisimo that 300 was trying to give.

[number8]

Hearing other people talk after a movie you just saw is quite the anthropologists dream and nightmare. The things you hear can just baffle the hell out of you.

I love it. I actually intentionally eavesdrop.

[Ezee E]

I love it. I actually intentionally eavesdrop.
Same here. It's even better at random bars or going to sporting events because nobody will even know that you are eavesdropping.

[number8]

Same here. It's even better at random bars or going to sporting events because nobody will even know that you are eavesdropping.

Unlike most people when they do this, though, I never interject or correct them. I just let them wallow in their wrongness and mock them in my head. This probably makes me an elitist.

[[ETM]]

This probably makes me an elitist.

Or just practical. The results are pretty much the same, only with less hassle.

[Ezee E]

Unlike most people when they do this, though, I never interject or correct them. I just let them wallow in their wrongness and mock them in my head. This probably makes me an elitist.
Nah, interjecting ruins it all.

[The Mike]

I love it. I actually intentionally eavesdrop.This was one of my favorite things to do when I worked at a theater. After a while, I could guess what movies some regulars would show up for, and whether they would like them...without ever having a conversation with them.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Cracked.com tells Fox and Rupert Murdoch to "Eat all the dicks."

http://www.cracked.com/blog/fox-can-eat-several-dicks/

The article is too long to cut and paste. Read it, it's funny stuff.

Spot-on...and awesome.

[number8]

Say goodbye to that release date. Fox wants to delay the movie and WB is refusing to settle and wants to go to trial for the rights back.

I'm gonna go ahead and say the movie won't come out until 2010.

[Ivan Drago]

Say goodbye to that release date. Fox wants to delay the movie and WB is refusing to settle and wants to go to trial for the rights back.

I'm gonna go ahead and say the movie won't come out until 2010.

Yup - here's the article: http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/12/29/watchmen-warner-bros-says-settlement-unlikely/

[number8]

I'm pretty sure Alan Moore put his black magic juju on this movie.

[eternity]

I'm pretty sure Alan Moore put his black magic juju on this movie.

He promised he would. I'm never going to make another joke about snake gods ever again. Shit scares me now.

[Sxottlan]

I am by no means an expert on copyright, but this still seems like just a shakedown by Fox. I really can't believe they want to prevent the release of it. It would seem the easiest way to score a couple million dollars off this thing is to slap their name on it and release it.

I've seen nothing about what Fox would do if they were actually successful in shelving it. Continue to not make the film themselves while a completed film sat in a bin somewhere forever? It just seems there's too many ways they could profit from it as is, although I wonder if they can now demand changes to the film? That seems to be a big concern for the fanboys now.


He promised he would.

Thought I remembered hearing that he really didn't care about this one? Something like they did not pursue his approval and he wouldn't go after them?

[Amnesiac]

although I wonder if they can now demand changes to the film? That seems to be a big concern for the fanboys now.

If the feedback from awaiting fans is good so far, I doubt they'd find any reason to demand changes. It would be kind of silly, right? If there wasn't a steady amount of immense of anticipation following the film, then I could see it happening...

This is also why I think it is probably not in their best interests to shelve it. For instance, half the marketing work is already done. Thus, if all they want is money, they'd be in the perfect situation — they can sail right down to the bank.

[number8]

If the feedback from awaiting fans is good so far, I doubt they'd find any reason to demand changes. It would be kind of silly, right? If there wasn't a steady amount of immense of anticipation following the film, then I could see it happening...

Except, Fox isn't exactly the type of studio that cares about a property's core fanbase. I don't think they'll demand big changes, really, but it wouldn't surprise me if they want the running time to be trimmed down considerably.

Also, I bet someone somewhere is cooking up a conspiracy about how Rupert Murdoch doesn't like the film's left-wing undertones.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Producer Lloyd Levin on the chumps at Fox: (http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/2008-12-6-motion-captured/posts/2009-1-8-an-open-letter-from-watchmen-producers)


For the sake of the artists involved, for the hundreds of people, executives and filmmakers, actors and crew, who invested their time, their money, and dedicated a good portion of their lives in order to bring this extraordinary project to life, the question of what is right is clear and unambiguous - Fox should stand down with its claim.

My father, who was a lawyer and a stickler for the minutiae of the law, was always quick to teach me that the determination of what is right and wrong was not the sole purview of the courts. I bet someone at Fox had a parent like mine who instilled the same sense of fairness and justice in them.

Fuckupper Larry Gordon on the rights: (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3i8518735e98028c8bb9fa53ab98a 5d08c)


In an unorthodox move, the veteran producer has fired off a lengthy letter to U.S. District Court Judge Gary Feess blaming Fox and his then-lawyers for the debacle and offering his version of events that led to the court's ruling that Fox owns distribution rights to the Zack Snyder-helmed comic-book adaptation.

Feess' Dec. 24 decision found that Gordon, who is not a party to the case, did not secure proper rights to "Watchmen" from Fox before shopping the project and setting it up at Warner Bros. The judge also said Gordon had "refused to testify" to key questions during his deposition and, as punishment, would not be allowed to have his voice heard on "any aspect" of the case.

Gordon had remained silent since then but fired back Wednesday, stating in a letter filed by his litigation lawyers that he has been subjected to "significant public scorn" for his role in the studio battle and arguing his case that he answered deposition questions "to the best of his knowledge."

[number8]

Lawyers said today they're reaching a settlement. So I guess that's that.

[Ivan Drago]

Lawyers said today they're reaching a settlement. So I guess that's that.

So if/when the settlement is reached, will the film still come out on March 6th?

[Sxottlan]

I don't know if the negotiations are really over the release date so much as what percentages everyone will get. Then again, if they reach a settlement where Fox gets a piece of the pie, I don't see why they'd hold back the release date.

The articles I've seen today said negotiations are moving along, but I've also seen stuff on a note the film's producer sent out slamming Fox.

[Dukefrukem]

Hmm. i didn't know this was rated R.

[eternity]

Hmm. i didn't know this was rated R.
There's no way it couldn't be.

[number8]

It's over. Settlement reached. Fox is getting a sizable pay AND percentage of B.O. Fuckers.

[Sxottlan]

I imagine since Fox will not be a co-distributor (tri-distributor? Paramount's logo has been in the trailer), they probably can't demand any changes to the film.

[MadMan]

It's over. Settlement reached. Fox is getting a sizable pay AND percentage of B.O. Fuckers.Only in America :|

[Watashi]

http://watchmenmovie.warnerbros.com/

The main page has clips, main themes, and dialogue for all main characters.

Really cool.

[Spun Lepton]

You can hear Rorschach's full "All the whores and politicians will look up and shout save us, and I'll whisper no." instead of the hacked version in the trailer, "The world will look up and shout save us ..."

So, this shows me that it may be even more faithful than I was anticipating. Hope I'm right!

[The Mike]

You can hear Rorschach's full "All the whores and politicians will look up and shout save us, and I'll whisper no." instead of the hacked version in the trailer, "The world will look up and shout save us ..."

So, this shows me that it may be even more faithful than I was anticipating. Hope I'm right!

Yeah, dialogue in trailers these days is overrated. Like in the Indy 4 trailer when it was edited to say that "it was a crystal skull, made out of solid gold". :rolleyes:

[number8]

Interesting... I don't know if it's just the video quality or not, but those shots on the site look way darker than the trailers make them out to be.

[Ezee E]

Nightly News on Dr. Manhattan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd5cInmK6LQ&eurl=http://aintitcool.com/node/39841)

[thefourthwall]

Nightly News on Dr. Manhattan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd5cInmK6LQ&eurl=http://aintitcool.com/node/39841)

Awesome. I think viral marketing is nifty.

[Spun Lepton]

The "final" Watchmen poster ... kinda stinks.

http://www.superherohype.com/news/watchmennews.php?id=8020

[[ETM]]

That one's for the masses, of course. Those who only hear about a movie when they see the poster in the theater window as they walk by. Of course, it has almost nothing to do with the plot, but has all the "qualities" to get ignorant butts into seats.

[MadMan]

The "final" Watchmen poster ... kinda stinks.

http://www.superherohype.com/news/watchmennews.php?id=8020Its horrible and awful. Yuck.

[Watashi]

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/1000046003bdlef-440x549.jpg

[Sycophant]

Its horrible and awful. Yuck.
Idunno... it pretty much looks like a movie poster.

[MadMan]

Idunno... it pretty much looks like a movie poster.Most modern Hollywood posters look like shit, so yeah this is true.

[Sycophant]

Most modern Hollywood posters look like shit, so yeah this is true.

The vast majority of classic movie posters weren't anything to write home about (at least not positively), either.

[MadMan]

The vast majority of classic movie posters weren't anything to write home about (at least not positively), either.Debatable, and at least many of them were actually great to look at. There was some sense of style back then, a kind of look that seems to be missing too much these days.

[Ezee E]

Debatable, and at least many of them were actually great to look at. There was some sense of style back then, a kind of look that seems to be missing too much these days.
I'd say the ratio is about the same compared to today.

[Sycophant]

Not every poster was the Vertigo poster.

In any given medium at any given time, there doesn't seem to be much fluctuation in the good-decent-crap ratios.

[eternity]

Well, I all of a sudden do not want to see this movie.

End credits song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqTO-5V6i-0

[Acapelli]

my chemical romance rules

[Ivan Drago]

Well, I all of a sudden do not want to see this movie.

End credits song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqTO-5V6i-0

Oh, yeah, because one song used during the end credits is an important factor as to whether a movie is good or bad. It's just as important as seeing the poster art incorporated in the movie.

[The Mike]

I've heard there are boobs involved in the movie. Thus, decision to see it is made, regardless of posters, music, or cinematic worth. :)

[[ETM]]

I've heard there are boobs involved in the movie.

With Malin Akerman, it's always about boobs. And hers are really nice.

[Watashi]

My favorite poster so far:

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/watchmentaposter-440x655.jpg

[number8]

Hey, that's the first one I've liked so far.

And it actually says something about the mood of the film!

[Raiders]

I love that Snyder is a "visionary director," especially of a film (300) that very heavily borrowed the style and direct images of its source, not to mentioned sucked balls, and which the borrowing heavily from the source is also likely the case here.

[Sycophant]

I'm sure he likes it too.

Has such an... adjective ever been used so agressively to promote an individual?

[Watashi]

I love that Snyder is a "visionary director," especially of a film (300) that very heavily borrowed the style and direct images of its source, not to mentioned sucked balls, and which the borrowing heavily from the source is also likely the case here.
It's pure marketing purposes. Directors have little to no control over how a poster is designed or how a trailer is cut.

See, I'm actually learning stuff in my film classes.

[Sycophant]

Well... obviously it's marketing.

[megladon8]

300 was fun.

That poster is pretty cool. Feels like a bit of a tribute to "X-Men: Days of Future Past"

[Sycophant]

That said, power players (and like it or not, Snyder is now a power player) can negotiate for promotional billing and all other kinds of considerations. He could even have worked it out in his contract that he got final cut on trailers, too (this does happen, though it's terribly infrequent).

That his name is being thrown around so weightily implies that he probably has a specific contract clause that requires that kind of consideration on posters, in TV spots, etc.

Whether the word "visionary" was his/his agent's idea or Warners Bros.'s marketing division's idea is unknown, though.

[Amnesiac]

He could even have worked it out in his contract that he got final cut on trailers, too (this does happen, though it's terribly infrequent).

Is it really that infrequent? I assumed that most directors would retain good deal of authorial sway over the construction of a trailer for one of their films. Then again, it was only just recently that Rian Johnson expressed his dislike of the trailer for The Brothers Bloom... so maybe this really isn't the case.

Well, if directors truly are shut out of the trailer construction process as a general rule, they should make like Paul Thomas Anderson and surreptitiously construct a teaser trailer to their liking without the studio knowing a thing and then upload it onto YouTube.

[MadMan]

That poster is awesome. And much better than the other one that was also recently posted.

[Watashi]

Kind of a spoiler if you haven't read the novel, but here's Rorschach out of costume:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.cinematical.com/media/2009/02/rorsc3.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.cinematical.com/media/2009/02/rors2.jpg

[Watashi]

A great interview with Zach Snyder about the lawsuit, the changed ending, and the overall criticisms of adapting the book. (http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/how-zack-snyder-just-barely-got-watchmen-to-the-screen/)

[number8]

And I was going to make a thing called Planet Rorschach. So you see this planet, and it’s covered with New York City. It’s like a planet of New York City. There’s no suburbs. There’s one giant Empire State Building, like Mount Olympus, in the middle of it. And hovering above the needle is Manhattan, blue, glowing. But the planet’s going, “Hurm, hurm, hurm, hurm, hurm, hurm.” You can’t tell, it’s this big, deafening, “Hurm.” And as you get close, you go down into the city and the whole world is populated with Rorschachs. And they’re all bumping into each other, going, “Hurm, hurm, no compromise, hurm, hurm, Armageddon.” That’s basically it. So I was like, “Is that the movie you guys want to make?”

:lol::lol::lol:

[Duncan]

And you guys didn't want to call him a visionary. What do you have to say for yourselves now? Hmm?

[[ETM]]

I think his work on 300 was in some sense visionary, mostly technically. Also, it was okay... I have only seen it recently and expected a whole lot less after all the jokes and youtube parodies.

That interview is indeed great. Sounds like an interesting dude to hang out with.

[DavidSeven]

Just read the novel. Tremendous. Even less excited about the film now.

Hate the casting and costuming for Ozymandias/Silk Spectre II. Not encouraged at all by the spoilers I've read in this thread either.

[Ezee E]

Hate the casting and costuming for Ozymandias/Silk Spectre II. Not encouraged at all by the spoilers I've read in this thread either.

Outside of the actor that plays Rorschach, I don't really like any of the casting.

But I'm warming up more to this as it comes closer.

[MadMan]

The only casting I have a problem with is Ozymandias, as the actor playing him looks too young. Yes I know that the dude is in great shape for his age, but I recall looking at the actual image and seeing someone at least looking late 40s, instead of early to mid 30s.

[Sycophant]

Well, but he's supposed to be attractive, and real people stop being attractive at 35, so it's a necessary thing.

[MadMan]

Well, but he's supposed to be attractive, and real people stop being attractive at 35, so it's a necessary thing.:| I guess so....

Aside from Rorschach's casting I also dig Night Owl II's a lot. I think that Wilson captures the look of Owl pretty well.

[DavidSeven]

The problem isn't the age. I envisioned Ozymandias to be an athletic pretty-boy stud in the vein of iconic Greek figures who just happened to be the smartest guy in the world and not a scrawny nerd in a ridiculous ab-suit.

[number8]

I like Patrick Wilson, but I resent the fact that he didn't get a really unattractive beer gut for the role.

[DavidSeven]

If anything, Wilson would be a better fit Ozymandias -- based on his square jaw and build in Little Children. Don't mind him as Night Owl though.

[Sycophant]

As we near the released date, I think I've decided to take a pass on this one in theaters. I've seen far too many big-budget films created by people whose work I don't like in the name of cultural literacy and just end up contributing to the massive opening weekends of stuff I already know there's very little chance I'm going to like.

So I will watch it for free (or on Netflix) some time.

This post is as valid as any post detailing frothing, growing, pulsating anticipation.

[Watashi]

I'm not going to this movie because I think it will be this epic masterpiece. I normally go to big-budget tentpole films just for the theatrical experience of it all. I'm not a Bay defender, but god knows I'll see everyone of his films in theaters because I love watching movies in theaters. The crowd, trailers, the cheers and gasps... all of that would be lost through a DVD viewing.

I guess it's why I love the summer season so much. I'll see pretty much every movie during that span because it's such a unique expereience from the rest of the year.

[MadMan]

The problem isn't the age. I envisioned Ozymandias to be an athletic pretty-boy stud in the vein of iconic Greek figures who just happened to be the smartest guy in the world and not a scrawny nerd in a ridiculous ab-suit.I actually agree with this, as well. In fact, what you posted could in fact be much better than my other post about why I have issues with who is playing him.

I will be going to see this movie in theaters because it looks good, and because I read the graphic novel, which actually upped my anticipation for it. Will it be a great film? Probably not. Entertaining? More than likely.

[Sycophant]

One of these days, I'm going to figure out what "entertaining" means.

[MadMan]

One of these days, I'm going to figure out what "entertaining" means.I believe it was iosos who said that the main goal of movies was to entertain us. If we got something else out of the whole thing, then great. I agree with this. I don't care if a movie is damn near perfect, if it doesn't manage to entertain or move me its not worth seeing.

[Acapelli]

As we near the released date, I think I've decided to take a pass on this one in theaters. I've seen far too many big-budget films created by people whose work I don't like in the name of cultural literacy and just end up contributing to the massive opening weekends of stuff I already know there's very little chance I'm going to like.

So I will watch it for free (or on Netflix) some time.

This post is as valid as any post detailing frothing, growing, pulsating anticipation.
it may be valid, doesn't make it any worse

[The Mike]

I'm not going to this movie because I think it will be this epic masterpiece. I normally go to big-budget tentpole films just for the theatrical experience of it all. I'm not a Bay defender, but god knows I'll see everyone of his films in theaters because I love watching movies in theaters. The crowd, trailers, the cheers and gasps... all of that would be lost through a DVD viewing.

I guess it's why I love the summer season so much. I'll see pretty much every movie during that span because it's such a unique expereience from the rest of the year.

Yup.

[number8]

I believe it was iosos who said that the main goal of movies was to entertain us. If we got something else out of the whole thing, then great. I agree with this. I don't care if a movie is damn near perfect, if it doesn't manage to entertain or move me its not worth seeing.

I agree, but I equate an entertaining movie with greatness. If it's not entertaining, then it's not a great movie. If it's not great, then it's not entertaining.

If Watchmen is a bungle, then I don't care how many "visionary" visuals and cool scenes and effects there are. Why would it be entertaining if it's shitty?

[MadMan]

I agree, but I equate an entertaining movie with greatness. If it's not entertaining, then it's not a great movie. If it's not great, then it's not entertaining.Fair enough, although I've seen some entertaining films that were rather bad.


If Watchmen is a bungle, then I don't care how many "visionary" visuals and cool scenes and effects there are. Why would it be entertaining if it's shitty?As I said earlier, if the film isn't good and it isn't entertaining, then of course none of that stuff matters.

[Sycophant]

See. This is why I say I don't understand your definition of the word "entertaining."

The word is just too damned slippery in that usage.

[Ezee E]

I hate when people say, "I like a movie if it entertains me, unlike some people." It's usually targeted towards me since I'll talk nonstop about why I liked a movie.

Then I ask them why they thought it was entertaining.

"The story. It was compelling."

Grr.

[MadMan]

See. This is why I say I don't understand your definition of the word "entertaining."

The word is just too damned slippery in that usage.I've always been a fan of the slippery slope argument :P

[Sycophant]

MadMan, stop trying to break my head.

[MadMan]

MadMan, stop trying to break my head.Take two asprins and call me in the morning.

[number8]

So, you know how the My Chemical Romance Bob Dylan cover was supposed to be in the end credits?


Keen eyes should already be able to pick out a few nods to the "Watchmen" film in the video — check the smiley face on drummer Bob Bryar's kit, and the massive Rorschach symbol the band performs in front of — but according to Way, the tie-in doesn't end there. When we spoke to him a few months back, he revealed that the song now plays a huge part in Snyder's much-discussed new ending to the film.

"I don't want to say too much, but as far as the placement right now it's integral to the ending of the film," Way said. "And that gave me goose bumps, and not because we did the song, but because it works that well, I feel."

Wat.

[Dead & Messed Up]

So, you know how the My Chemical Romance Bob Dylan cover was supposed to be in the end credits?



Wat.

Probably being played at a "Pale Horse" concert before the Manhattan Beam starts. That's the only scenario I can imagine that doesn't make me hate God.

[Kurosawa Fan]

USE THE REAL FUCKING SONG, DOUCHE BAGS!

[Raiders]

USE THE REAL FUCKING SONG, DOUCHE BAGS!

Calm down, fanboy.

[Winston*]

USE THE REAL FUCKING SONG, DOUCHE BAGS!

Don't worry KF. You've still got this to look forward to.


This is followed by an unhurried opening credit sequence, largely of Snyder's invention, that juxtaposes Bob Dylan's "The Times They Are A-Changin"' with a montage of masked do-gooders with names like Dollar Bill and Hooded Justice as they participate in key moments of atomic-age history, like V-J Day and the assassination of John F. Kennedy. T

[Kurosawa Fan]

Don't worry KF. You've still got this to look forward to.

Blech. Nevermind.

[EvilShoe]

I will love this movie if it causes people to roam the streets on Halloween dressed like this:
http://watchmencomicmovie.com/photos/costumes-ozy-com.jpg
http://watchmencomicmovie.com/012609-watchmen-movie-costumes.php

[Russ]

Be careful of that which you wish.


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1253/portraitzd1.jpg

[Skitch]

Unpopular opinion of the day...Bob Dylan, while a good poet, has an unbearable voice.

[EvilShoe]

Unpopular opinion of the day...Bob Dylan, while a good poet, has an unbearable voice.
Thank God for My Chemical Romance, then.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Unpopular opinion of the day...Bob Dylan, while a good poet, has an unbearable voice.

Not just unpopular, wrong.

[[ETM]]

I also don't think much of Dylan's voice but think highly of his work otherwise.
And no, I don't care about My Chemical Romance at all.

[EvilShoe]

Not just unpopular, wrong.
Wow, you're a Dylan fan too?

[Dukefrukem]

the one on the right isn't too bad.

http://watchmencomicmovie.com/photos/costumes-niteowl-ror.jpg

[Skitch]

Not just unpopular, wrong.

:rolleyes:

[Qrazy]

:rolleyes:

He's right. You are wrong. At least in terms of his early work. If you're referring to his later work, then you are right.

[Derek]

USE THE REAL FUCKING SONG, DOUCHE BAGS!

Calm down, BD's in good hands.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w290/misswheeler_1/my%20chemical%20romance/My_Chemical_Romance--large-msg-1-6.jpg

:lol:

[Skitch]

He's right. You are wrong. At least in terms of his early work. If you're referring to his later work, then you are right.

You've convinced me. Now I love Dylan.

God forbid anyone have any half negative opinions on any sacred cows.

[Kurosawa Fan]

You've convinced me. Now I love Dylan.

God forbid anyone have any half negative opinions on any sacred cows.

Relax. No one is angry. You're allowed to have your opinions. They are wrong opinions, but you can have them if you like.

[Boner M]

KF's av makes this one hell of an enjoyable page.

[Skitch]

Relax. No one is angry. You're allowed to have your opinions. They are wrong opinions, but you can have them if you like.

That's not true...I'm angry. :)

[MadMan]

I also think that Dylan has a good voice. But I also think that he is a better songwriter, lyrcist, and guitar player than vocalist.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I just think it's funny that they went old-school punk on a song that's the antithesis of "punk."

[number8]

I just think it's funny that they went old-school punk on a song that's the antithesis of "punk."

You mean the lyrics?

[Dead & Messed Up]

You mean the lyrics?

The lyrics but also the sheer size of the original song.

[Acapelli]

two awesome pics

http://i44.tinypic.com/16hqnoj.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/wt6phk.jpg

[Sycophant]

Oh wow. It is so gritty and hardcore.

[DavidSeven]

Didn't Snyder say this wasn't going to be Watchmen 300-style? So much for that.

[Sycophant]

[deleted because I misread D7's post]

[megladon8]

I don't even know what the hell is happening in that second photo.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I don't even know what the hell is happening in that second photo.

A flashback to Nam, when Manhattan explodes someone in a bar.

[megladon8]

A flashback to Nam, when Manhattan explodes someone in a bar.


Yeah I know what it is, but with that photo being in the middle of the explosion, it looks like Doc Manhattan is holding out his hand to stop 100 peoples' spilling drinks.

[Acapelli]

no one's mentioned how awesome patrick wilson's receding hairline is in that photo

[Dukefrukem]

two awesome pics

http://i44.tinypic.com/16hqnoj.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/wt6phk.jpg

holy shit. :eek:

[number8]

Hmm, I'm trying to land an interview with Alex Tse. At the very least, though, I'll be at a Q&A panel with him where he's going to discuss the film.

[Ivan Drago]

Didn't Snyder say this wasn't going to be Watchmen 300-style? So much for that.

Eh...the book is pretty violent, too, you know. Doesn't surprise me that the movie is following suit.

[Sycophant]

Thing is, the violence in Watchmen (at least the way I read it) was not glamorized. It was brutal and stomach-churning or so nonchalant that it was terribly unsettling.

Snyder? LOL.

[megladon8]

I don't remember Snyder ever saying this would be like 300.

If anything, I thought he said it wouldn't be like that movie.

[number8]

Didn't Snyder say this wasn't going to be Watchmen 300-style? So much for that.


I don't remember Snyder ever saying this would be like 300.

If anything, I thought he said it wouldn't be like that movie.

Reading, dude. :)

[megladon8]

*forehead slap*

[megladon8]

These are really nice. (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20258076,00.html?xid=rss-feed-todayslatest-%27Watchmen%27%3A+17+stunning+ portraits)

[kuehnepips]

161 Min.!?!?!

The audience will look up and shout, "Bathroom break!"

And I'll whisper, no.
-Bos Grunniens (on RT)

[DavidSeven]

I figured a faithful adaptation would take considerable running time, but I wonder how much of that could have been cut by removing the extended fight sequences (not in novel) and slow-mo.

[number8]

Only 9 minutes longer than The Dark Knight. No one would care.

The director's cut with the anime sequences, however, is said to be 3.5 hours. Now that would be ballsy to release.

[MadMan]

161 Min.!?!?!

The audience will look up and shout, "Bathroom break!"

And I'll whisper, no.
-Bos Grunniens (on RT)I'm all for bringing back intermissions.

[Spun Lepton]

Only 9 minutes longer than The Dark Knight. No one would care.

The director's cut with the anime sequences, however, is said to be 3.5 hours. Now that would be ballsy to release.

Probably 9 minutes of special effects credits, heh.

[Watashi]

Such a cool image.

http://bitcast-a.bitgravity.com/slashfilm/images/Watchmenfinal30.jpg

[Spun Lepton]

TV commercials! Anticipation growing ... growing ... growing ...

[Sxottlan]

I'll admit I'm getting real anxious to see this.

[eternity]

Does this make me a complete loser?

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9234/watchshowjj0.jpg

I'm leaning towards yes.

[Amnesiac]

More Watchmen opprobrium from another one of Jeffrey Wells' unnamed friends:



A Watchmen screening happened last night at L.A.'s AMC Century City plex. Attendees included press (including HFPA), studio folk, friends of studio folk and random-off-the-streeters. It was 20 minutes late starting, but a friend of HE attended and his basic verdict is that Tuesday's early-bird review was pretty much on point.

"By far the highlight of the film is the opening credits," he begins. "It perfectly nails the surrealist tone of the graphic novel and does an adequate job of running through some of the back story of the Watchmen. It's so good I'm half-convinced that director Zack Snyder had little to do with this sequence. Because that's where the surrealism ends.

"The rest of Watchmen basically alternates between campy silliness and 2nd-rate comic book melodrama. At some points on the level of live-action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I assume Snyder was trying to hit that sweet spot of surrealism that accompanies the alternate 1985 reality of the graphic novel, but the kindest thing I can call it is a kind of tragedy/campy combo.

You can read more here (http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2009/02/that_whooshing.php), but there are spoilers.

[Spun Lepton]

You can read more here (http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2009/02/that_whooshing.php), but there are spoilers.

Backlash was expected. It dampers my anticipation a little bit, but I'll still be catching it in the theater.

Anybody who talks about the "audience reaction" throws up all kinds of red flags as far as I'm concerned. You aren't the entire audience and you're only speculating on their opinions. It doesn't make your opinion look any more "legitimate."

[eternity]

Jeffrey Wells has been rooting for this film to fail for months, the man isn't to be trusted.

[Winston*]

the surrealist tone of the graphic novel

?

[Spun Lepton]

Three clips from the movie. Slo-mo city. Malin Akerman might be a weak spot. The scene between Rorschach and Nite Owl is good. Feel free to tear it apart at your leisure.

http://timesonline.typepad.com/blockbuster_buzz/2009/02/watchmen-3-new.html

[Sxottlan]

Wells' reaction to Selman's take seems particularly mean.

Perhaps they're getting enough positive reaction that they're trying to get around their own embargo?

[Spun Lepton]

If this isn't a strong endorsement, I don't know what is.

Wil Wheaton on Watchmen: "Spoiler Alert: WATCHMEN is fucking awesome."

Cut from the site:
I know a lot of people want to know about Watchmen, so I'll just cut to the chase right away: It's the best movie inspired by a graphic novel that I've ever seen. It could have gone wrong in a thousand different places, and it didn't. I've wanted to see this movie for twenty years, and it was entirely worth the wait. Hear me now, my fellow geeks: you have nothing to worry about. Watchmen is fucking awesome.

Later in the article:
Now, listen, I know that we live in a world where we've endured Ang Lee's The Hulk, Spiderman 3, both Fantastic Four movies, and Indiana Jones Gets Raped Repeatedly While We Are Forced To Watch In Horror, so I think it would be really strange if we weren't worried and apprehensive about something that already means so much to us, but I hope this will calm your nerves until the movie is released: Watchmen is faithful to the book. It respects the book. I swear by the beard of Zeus, it feels like the book. Yes, there are some cuts, but they serve the release and don't disrupt or betray the narrative at all. Yes, they made a change to something that's a pretty big deal in the book, but it doesn't matter; what they did instead accomplishes exactly the same thing, and it does it perfectly. There is some of the Zack Snyder signature slow motion, and though it's a little heavy in the very first scene (which worried me) it isn't overdone throughout the movie at all, and I found it to be pretty cool and entertaining.

The rest. If you're at work, beware the URL may be NSFW.
http://wilwheaton.typepad.com/wwdnbackup/2009/02/spoiler-alert-watchmen-is-fucking-awesome.html

Be sure to read what the script was like before Snyder got a hold of it. Dr. Manhattan in Iraq? Ugh.

[MadMan]

Jeffrey Wells has been rooting for this film to fail for months, the man isn't to be trusted.I'm guessing he's doing it for the publicity. I can't think of any other reason, although I'm sure there are others.

[Amnesiac]

I'm guessing he's doing it for the publicity. I can't think of any other reason, although I'm sure there are others.

In the comments section, Wells seems to indicate that he's tried to get Warner Bros. to invite him to one of the press screenings but they chose not to... so some people have taken that bit of info and guessed that Wells is just working out his indignation by posting as many negative Watchmen reviews as possible.

[Sycophant]

Considering Hulk is my favorite superhero film and I didn't think Spider-Man 3 was something to endure, I remain skeptical, as Mr. Wheaton is clearly not talking to me.

[MadMan]

In the comments section, Wells seems to indicate that he's tried to get Warner Bros. to invite him to one of the press screenings but they chose not to... so some people have taken that bit of info and guessed that Wells' is just working out his indignation by posting as many negative Watchmen reviews as possible.Yeah, that's pretty damn immature and petty of him. But after reading the article number8 posted about Welles, it doesn't come as a surprise.

[Morris Schæffer]

The Empire UK review:


Plot
It’s 1985 in an alternative USA of rundown streets, drained resources and imminent war with the Russians. Superheroes have been outlawed and are getting bumped off. Not a good time for the Watchmen to reunite?

Review
Recently quizzed on his expectations for the movie adaptation of his hallowed graphic novel Watchmen, Alan Moore — shaman, philosopher, citizen of Northampton and visionary comic-book auteur — was heard to sigh. “Do we need any more shitty films in this world?” he grumbled not-unreasonably. After all, a muddled V For Vendetta and the gigantic snafu that was The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen had led him to finally cut all ties (including financial) with the movie world. Let them do what they will, just don’t involve me. He concluded his diatribe with the simple remonstration that Watchmen, his masterwork, was “inherently unfilmable”.

Which is not exactly encouraging for a director attempting their dream project. But Zack Snyder, hot from his stylised-if-juvenile adaptation of Frank Miller’s 300, is a determined man. Even if Moore had turned his back, Snyder was one of the faithful, Watchmen his Bible, and would treat it with a care unprecedented in the annals of Hollywood screw-ups. Every sinew of directorial effort has been bent on proving the author wrong.
Equal parts celebration, parody and exotic dissembling of an entire industry, the novel is dizzy with storytelling devices: not just comic-strips, but biographical chapters, diaries, newspaper reports, poetry quotations, medical files and a warped, ultra-violent story-within-a-story called Tales Of The Black Freighter (sensibly siphoned off by Snyder into an accompanying animated DVD release). It was less the Citizen Kane of graphic novels than the Ulysses — a vortex of astonishing ideas that could take you years to fully compute. Stick that into two hours of family entertainment then, Zack…

In this gloomy, alternative Nixonian America, an outcast superhero has been tossed out of his apartment window. Still, The Comedian, former member of the disbanded Watchmen, has some ugly secrets. Rorschach, a paranoid sleuth whose ink-blot mask eerily ebbs and flows with his moods, can smell conspiracy, but his fellow ex-Watchmen are hard to convince. Ultra-brain Ozymandias is locked away in his ivory tower solving the energy crisis, Nite Owl and Silk Spectre are fretting over freakish pasts, while Dr. Manhattan — the only genuine superhero, having been blasted in a freak atomic accident — has become detached from human emotion, capable of knowing his future and travelling to Mars on a whim.
It’s a whodunnit, although what exactly has been done is hard to say. It’s an action movie heavy on dialogue, although the movie styles up the punch-ups into slow-mo montages slickly edited to effective if anomalous tunes — a Snyder predilection that can lean towards the wearily hip. It’s an origin story, or rather five origin stories flashbacking through time. It’s a bleak, rangy tale of a planet beset with disorder, a parable about power, and a superhero soap that shuttles between multiple story arcs that almost divides the film into comic-book cells.

Greater reputations than Snyder’s have wrestled with the beast to no avail. Terry Gilliam, no stranger to whirling structures and otherworldliness, couldn’t figure it out. Paul Greengrass, no stranger to political subtexts and propulsive action, was abandoned by a sceptical studio. Amid the mud-hurling of the recent court case, the script was accused of being an “unintelligible piece of shit”.

That Snyder has gotten a version to the screen at all is a triumph. He has found a way — although this is 160 minutes of a dense, geek-orientated blockbuster for grown-ups. Inevitably, but hardly catastrophically, it fails to truly capture the cascade of ideas and bracing cynicism of Moore’s writing. Yet there is a challenging, visually stunning and memorable movie here, moored halfway towards achieving the impossible.

It will also inevitably be judged from two angles: what it means for those that have read the comic-book, and those who will enter the cinema unequipped, say, with the history of the Minutemen, predecessors of the Watchmen, or the nature of Bubastis, Ozymandias’ genetically mutated lynx. Snyder nearly manages a film for both, but errs to the former. While necessarily filleting down the vast story to something palatable for human bladders, he is slavish to the original text. In his desire to encompass the novel’s strands, storylines and their payoffs are short-changed, leaving the film emotionally subdued, more an intellectual mystery than natural thriller.
And there is no compromising for the junior dollar: arms are snapped, heads hatcheted, and Viet-Cong splattered like flies by Dr. Manhattan, while Silk Spectre keeps her kinky boots on during mid-flight coitus. The entire atmosphere, dunking the cleaner lines of the novel into a pungently vivid, rain-sloshed superhero noir, lacquered in blood stains and midnight shadows, is superbly realised, a true world-unto-itself far more stimulating than Iron Man’s Windowlened sparkle or even The Dark Knight’s shimmering, Michael Mann-ish nightscapes.

In boldly keeping the book’s (then contemporary) 1985 setting fraught with Cold War paranoia — the plot teeters on the brink of nuclear war — the film becomes a less urgent period-piece. The political spine is now cute, as America taunts the Soviets as it has Dr. Manhattan as the ultimate deterrent. A hairless blue man with it all hanging out, he comes care of a mo-capped Billy Crudup that’s about 70 per cent successful — much better in close-up than the distracting mid-shots dominated by his blurry-blue CG cock.

Of all the Watchmen, it is Rorschach and Nite Owl who are most successful. Jackie Earle Haley finds the leery, psychopathic heartbeart of the faceless Bogart, and you half-wish Snyder might have stuck with Rorschach as protagonist rather than spreading the net so wide. No doubt the purists would have wailed. Patrick Wilson, too, is just right as the tortured Owl, a hero bereft in his own identity. It is Mathew Goode as oddball Ozymandias, and Malin Ackerman as Silk Spectre who botch line-readings, ill-at-ease in latex that is part suit and part joke.

Which should tell you Snyder has caught the novel’s provocative mindset. Fundamentally, Moore was asking how a universe of costumed crime fighters might actually work. A quest borrowed by Nolan for his Batman rethink. Here, though, there is dark satire: Batman (now Nite Owl) can’t get it up, impotent without his suit on; Wonder Woman (now Silk Spectre) carries the mountain of her mother’s guilt (a previous Silk Spectre marooned in old age); Superman (now Dr. Manhattan) has taken on the unreachable guise of a god. Best of all, there is Philip Marlowe (now Rorschach), with his do-or-die morality and Taxi Driver voiceover, the most hideously human of the bunch. Holed up in the clink, the inmates try to dispose of the despised crime-fighter. Unmasked and dead-eyed, Earle Haley turns to his foe and, shortly before dousing him in boiling chip fat, chillingly delivers Moore’s deathly magic: “None of you understand. I’m not locked up in here with you. You’re locked up in here with… ME!” And he’s the hero.


Verdict
Okay, it isn’t the graphic novel, but Zack Snyder clearly gives a toss, creating a smart, stylish, decent adaptation, if low on accessibility for the non-convert.

http://www.empireonline.com/images/stars/medium_4.gif

[Skitch]

Wow, that was good read. I rarely finish a review.

[kuehnepips]

I rarely finish a review.

Or anything else.

Except a bottle.

[Skitch]

Or anything else.

Except a bottle.

:)

How well you know me...


Where you been? Hows life?

[number8]

A kinda sorta rant on this movie's merchandising tie-ins. (http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/movie-news/4916-would-you-like-some-irony-in-your-qwatchmenq-coffee.html)

[number8]

http://comiccritics.com/comics/2009-02-24_cc_040.gif

[Morris Schæffer]

Earky reviews are extremely positive!

Some gushing ones also.

[megladon8]

Earky reviews are extremely positive!

Some gushing ones also.


That's not what I've been hearing.

We must frequent different sites/publications.

[EyesWideOpen]

A kinda sorta rant on this movie's merchandising tie-ins. (http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/movie-news/4916-would-you-like-some-irony-in-your-qwatchmenq-coffee.html)

I would expect nothing less from you.

[Morris Schæffer]

That's not what I've been hearing.

We must frequent different sites/publications.

RT has some really strong ones:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/watchmen/

[Skitch]

"You lost 35 minutes ago, please dont try again"

*dies laughing*

[Ivan Drago]

I would expect nothing less from you.

Neither would I.

And I've already got my ticket for the midnight showing next week. I'm stoked.

[MadMan]

That comic strip is just beyond priceless. "None of you understand. You're not playing this game with me. I'm playing this game with you." Heh.

[Watashi]

I saw this film.

Those who had prematurely negative thoughts, will hate the film.

I was not one of those people.

Mind = blown.

[megladon8]

Those who had prematurely negative thoughts, will hate the film.

:lol:

[D_Davis]

Yeah, I've heard many positive things as well.

I'm actually looking forward to this.

[Barty]

Yeah, the movie is pretty great.

[Ezee E]

I saw this film.

Those who had prematurely negative thoughts, will hate the film.


Because they were right? Why?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Isn't My Chemical Romance supposed to do Dylan covers in this movie? That sounds mind-bogglingly awful.

Love the book, but hate the approach that Snyder is going for (not to mention the annoying poseurdom that is following this film). I might see it, and I'll try to to keep as open a mind as I can, but... even with these decent reviews, I'm really not convinced.

[Spun Lepton]

Because they were right? Why?

I'm guessing it's because they will be going into it biased.

[Ezee E]

I'm guessing it's because they will be going into it biased.
Well yeah, but they're going into it biased for reasons such as excessive slo-mo, corny music, etc. Is that all still excessive?

[Spinal]

So, negative thoughts before seeing the film are premature and biased, but positive thoughts about a new film by the director of 300 are perfectly OK and rational.

[Spun Lepton]

So, negative thoughts before seeing the film are premature and biased, but positive thoughts about a new film by the director of 300 are perfectly OK and rational.

I never said anything of the sort, I was just giving my impression of what Watashi was saying.

[MadMan]

So, negative thoughts before seeing the film are premature and biased, but positive thoughts about a new film by the director of 300 are perfectly OK and rational.Yes :P

[Dead & Messed Up]

Isn't My Chemical Romance supposed to do Dylan covers in this movie? That sounds mind-bogglingly awful.

Love the book, but hate the approach that Snyder is going for (not to mention the annoying poseurdom that is following this film). I might see it, and I'll try to to keep as open a mind as I can, but... even with these decent reviews, I'm really not convinced.

They did one - a truncated "Desolation Row." The original is a lovely song, obviously, but I actually kinda dig the cover.

Regardless, my understanding is that the song doesn't figure into the film significantly. If you look at the rest of the soundtrack, it's impressive:

1. Desolation Row (My Chemical Romance)
2. Unforgettable (Nat King Cole)
3. The Times They Are A-Changin' (Bob Dylan)
4. The Sound Of Silence (Simon & Garfunkel)
5. Me & Bobby McGee (Janis Joplin)
6. I'm Your Boogie Man (KC & The Sunshine Band)
7. You're My Thrill (Billie Holiday)
8. Pruit Igoe & Prophecies (Philip Glass)
9. Hallelujah (Leonard Cohen)
10. All Along The Watchtower (Jimi Hendrix)
11. Ride of the Valkyries (Budapest Symphony Orchestra)
12. Pirate Jenny (Nina Simone)

[Watashi]

So, negative thoughts before seeing the film are premature and biased, but positive thoughts about a new film by the director of 300 are perfectly OK and rational.

Well, I hated 300 and Dawn of the Dead. So, does that make me biased?

I actually don't mind the excessive slo-mo scenes. It's minimal to the film and didn't take away from the great visual and performances.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Opinion search: is this funny or no?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/deadandmessedup/WatchmenPage1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/deadandmessedup/WatchmenPage2.jpg

[D_Davis]

(not to mention the annoying poseurdom that is following this film).

What is this?

[Ivan Drago]

8. Pruit Igoe & Prophecies (Philip Glass)

If these are used in the movie, I will cream my pants.

[Dead & Messed Up]

If these are used in the movie, I will cream my pants.

Bring extra pants to the theater.

[Dukefrukem]

So, negative thoughts before seeing the film are premature and biased, but positive thoughts about a new film by the director of 300 are perfectly OK and rational.

I like referring to him as the director of the Dawn of the Dead remake.

[Amnesiac]

A kinda sorta rant on this movie's merchandising tie-ins. (http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/movie-news/4916-would-you-like-some-irony-in-your-qwatchmenq-coffee.html)

I just kind of skimmed that, but... weren't people saying the same thing about Wall-E's merchandise? There's a certain irony involved when you go out and buy one of those BUY-N-LARGE posters.

But the reason why you can't really slight Andrew Stanton or Pixar is because all they have did was insert a subversive message into a system that they are incapable of dictating. It's not really their fault that anything within their work (including subversive statements) were kind of glossed over by marketing/merchandising fiends. The subversive messages of Watchmen or Wall-E exists in a world that doesn't really hold any sway against the tide of tie-in merchandise. That's why I agree with this comment from that article:


"It's not exactly hypocrisy, since the man who made the anti-corporate claims is not at all involved in the making or approval of these products, but like the Fight Club video game, it is a blatant disregard of shame. They know it's satirized in the source material, but they also know that tie-ins make mad money. It's willful ignorance.

The real hypocrisy, if there is one, lies in the consumers. And by consumers, I'm including myself in this. Like many from my generation, I grew up in a Disney-tinted world where the notion that any kind of popular art would be accompanied by a profitable product is simply common occurence."

So, yeah. I don't think it would be right to blame Snyder here (... not that anyone is), because like Stanton and Pixar, would he have really been able to hold back the inevitable wave of merchandise? Probably not. You can commend the artist for criticizing the machine from the inside, but you can't reprimand that artist for doing more than he or she possibly can.

[D_Davis]

This kind of problem always arises when you mix extreme art with extreme commerce. Hardcore punk rock and rap music telling kids to "fight the man" has been selling like mad in the malls and stores for decades. These bands' albums are made available to people to buy because of the man.

It's nothing new, really.

All we can do is chose how much of a part of it we will be.

[megladon8]

I find it really hard to take any music with "fight the man" messages seriously unless it's just some guy on a street corner singing from his heart and his experiences.

Most of the rappers out there pretty much are "The Man".

[Sycophant]

Most of the rappers out there pretty much are "The Man".

Hmmm.... the veracity of this statement depends on your inflection.

[D_Davis]

I find it really hard to take any music with "fight the man" messages seriously unless it's just some guy on a street corner singing from his heart and his experiences.

Most of the rappers out there pretty much are "The Man".

But sometimes you gotta use the man to get your message out, and sometimes some of the men have some good things to say.

I don't disparage Public Enemy of EPMD for putting out their albums on big labels - if anything, I commend the labels for putting their stuff out, and the bands for delivering a powerful message.

I think it is just important to remember the complex ecosystem that is the relationship between art and commerce.

[megladon8]

But sometimes you gotta use the man to get your message out, and sometimes some of the men have some good things to say.

I don't disparage Public Enemy of EPMD for putting out their albums on big labels - if anything, I commend the labels for putting their stuff out, and the bands for delivering a powerful message.

I think it is just important to remember the complex ecosystem that is the relationship between art and commerce.


I agree, but I can't think of many artists today who I would commend for using the system to their advantage.

When I think of "artists" like 50 Cent or P. Diddy, and their occasional "fight the man" lyrics, it honestly makes me laugh. They're in the game solely for the money and fame, and they've included these lyrics as a way of attracting a certain audience to buy their shit so they can make more money.

There's nothing more "the man" than that.

[Winston*]

Do Puff Daddy and 50 Cent have any "Fight the Man" lyrics?

[megladon8]

Do Puff Daddy and 50 Cent have any "Fight the Man" lyrics?


Heck yeah. 50 Cent has tons of songs about street life and being kept down by the upper class, people being forced into selling drugs because they can't get decent legit work, etc.

[Amnesiac]

I may be wrong, but I think Rage Against The Machine disbanded because their iconoclasm just couldn't function without the threat of unintentional hypocrisy due to the very medium they were working in (that is, the medium, and its concomitant venues and commercial structures).

I mean, they tried to be anti-hegemonic... but their message was being expressed through capitalist structures. There's a dialectical tension there. So I think there's an interesting debate here. That is, whether or not these cries of dissent that are shouted out from within, and through, the cogs of the machine... are actually productive. I'd say they are.

[D_Davis]

Didn't the lead singer quit to actually participate in politics?

Also, remember Midnight Oil? Some of those dudes were politicians in Australia, right?

Both of those bands walked the walk, and talked the talk.

[Amnesiac]

Didn't the lead singer quit to actually participate in politics?

I'm not sure. I just remember hearing that the hypocrisy of working within, and thereby supporting, the system was a factor that influenced their disbandment.

If that's true, then the venture into politics may have been an approach that he saw as being more practical and less counterproductive.

[MadMan]

I met "THE MAN" once. He smelled funny, and was scary. So I ran away.

[The Mike]

Did someone say The Man has a new album coming out? Wasn't he the guy who was great in Street Kings and Waist Deep? :cool:

Disclaimer: This post may have contained sarcasm and/or intentional foolishness. Due to the nature of this post, it should not be read. By anyone.

[Sxottlan]

For better or for worse, both Lyons and Mankiewicz loved Watchmen.

[dreamdead]

When I think of "artists" like 50 Cent or P. Diddy, and their occasional "fight the man" lyrics, it honestly makes me laugh. They're in the game solely for the money and fame, and they've included these lyrics as a way of attracting a certain audience to buy their shit so they can make more money.

There's nothing more "the man" than that.

Can we please stop talking about The Dark Knight?

[megladon8]

Can we please stop talking about The Dark Knight?


Uh...what? Am I missing something here?

[dreamdead]

Uh...what? Am I missing something here?

Just joshing you. ;)

You're attacking the commercialization of the mainstream rap industry on one hand, yet your favorite genres are similarly framed around issues of "The Man," in that they buttress the entire film industry and stabilize a weakening film economy. There's a double-bind inherent to your argument. What's the difference between 50 Cent complaining about being kept down by the man and Batman suffering under the city government in The Dark Knight, aka the man?

You love one but deride the other. Both are about public/private persona and both masquerade as the Other in order to guarantee their freedom.

[megladon8]

I don't think The Dark Knight tried to hide the fact that it's a comic book movie blockbuster.

It's just done really, really well.


EDIT: And anyways, any "fight the man" message that the film contained was with the Joker's character, who is clearly shown as being in the wrong in the end.

Especially since Batman used the system to find and catch the Joker, and then established that the system is needed with the final decisions made regarding the outcome of Dent's transformation.

I don't think The Dark Knight was trying to "fight the man" at all. If anything it was proudly pro-man.

[number8]

Didn't the lead singer quit to actually participate in politics?

Zach de La Rocha joined the Zapatistas, heh.

[D_Davis]

Zach de La Rocha joined the Zapatistas, heh.

Well, there you go. He's walking the walk!

:)

[number8]

Anyway, I'm seeing this tonight. Cautiously optimistic.

Saw the first 20 minutes on Saturday. Hated the opening prolonged fight scene. Showing The Comedian's murder is pointless and an obvious/scared way to assure the unsuspecting audience that the film has action scenes to come.

But the title sequence after that was pretty fucking great, despite an on-the-nose use of Dylan's "Times They Are A-Changin'." And the scenes that follow are pretty much as good as a Watchmen adaptation could ever be, I think. Morgan, Healey and Wilson are absolutely perfect.

[Acapelli]

Anyway, I'm seeing this tonight. Cautiously optimistic.

Saw the first 20 minutes on Saturday. Hated the opening prolonged fight scene. Showing The Comedian's murder is pointless and an obvious/scared way to assure the unsuspecting audience that the film has action scenes to come.

But the title sequence after that was pretty fucking great, despite an on-the-nose use of Dylan's "Times They Are A-Changin'." And the scenes that follow are pretty much as good as a Watchmen adaptation could ever be, I think. Morgan, Healey and Wilson are absolutely perfect.
i don't remember the title sequence in 300, but the one in the dawn of the dead remake is great

[Dead & Messed Up]

i don't remember the title sequence in 300, but the one in the dawn of the dead remake is great

300 is one of those title-only movies. But yeah, the Dawn credits are easily the best thing about the film.

[number8]

I had completely forgotten about that. I just watched it again on YouTube. Yes, pretty great. The Watchmen credits is about on the same vein.

[D_Davis]

But yeah, the Dawn credits are easily the best thing about the film.

Nonsense. Dawn '04 is a fantastic film.

[Qrazy]

Just joshing you. ;)

You're attacking the commercialization of the mainstream rap industry on one hand, yet your favorite genres are similarly framed around issues of "The Man," in that they buttress the entire film industry and stabilize a weakening film economy. There's a double-bind inherent to your argument. What's the difference between 50 Cent complaining about being kept down by the man and Batman suffering under the city government in The Dark Knight, aka the man?

You love one but deride the other. Both are about public/private persona and both masquerade as the Other in order to guarantee their freedom.

Riiight... no.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Nonsense. Dawn '04 is a fantastic film.

It's a good film. With fantastic credits.

[DavidSeven]

Neither The Dark Night nor 50 Cent's music have anything to do with "The Man" in the same sense as Alan Moore's work or Public Enemy's music, so we can just stop the discussion right there.

[Fezzik]

I'm seeing this Saturday Morning. I have guarded optimism.

[number8]

Nope.

Sloppy, sloppy filmmaking. This movie defied my expectations in more ways than one. All my worries are quelled, yet it creates huge problems I did not anticipate (unrelated to my feelings towards the comic).

As an adaptation = okay. As a standalone movie = disaster.

[Rowland]

Sloppy, sloppy filmmaking. Doesn't surprise me. Even DotD, which tends to be his most defended film and even which I rather enjoyed, is chock full of sloppy, amateurish directorial choices. The Michael-Bay-ish slo-mo gun battle between the old lady and the black dude before the zombie baby birth still makes me chuckle every time.

[Watashi]

Judging by the amount of poster posts in this thread, the film really isn't in the Rowland, Boner, Spinal, Russ, Derek's crowd of filmmaking.

I just love the source material and wanted to see it visualize on the big screen. I still don't think Zack Snyder is a great director (he even says in interviews he loves making movies with extreme violence and sex), but he at least he has the chops to make a faithful work of Moore's writing and Gibbon's artwork. I'm sure someone seriously dedicated like Greengrass could have made a better film, but I'm not going to dwell on what could have been. I live for these kind of ambitious projects, even if doesn't quite execute perfectly.

I think Snyder has talent. I just don't see him ever ranging out of his malicious bubble.

[number8]

This is sort of what I've been repeatedly trying to say for the past year or so around here as I've been playing the role of the hater, but kind of nice to see the same things said by Alan Moore himself:


Moore: One thing is that with the comics medium, it has been proven—I believe by Pentagon tests in the late '80s—that comics are actually the best medium for imparting information to somebody in a form that they will retain and remember. That's not just me saying that, that's the Pentagon. I personally feel—and this is just pseudo-scientific hippie bullshit—I feel this might be because the unit of currency of what used to be called our left brain is the word. Our left brain is what goes about speech and rationality. The unit of currency for our right brain, conversely, would be the image, because the right brain is preverbal.

So perhaps it is because of the combination of words and images in a readable form that comics does have this unique power. Now, of course, movies are a combination of words and images, but they have a completely different structure and completely different way of working. With a movie you are being dragged through the scenario at a relentless 24 frames a second. With a comic book you can dart your eyes back to a previous panel, or you can flip back a couple of pages to check whether there is some reference in the dialog to a scene that happened earlier.

You can also spend as much time as you want absorbing every image. This is especially true of something like Watchmen, where I was trying to take advantage of Dave Gibbons' brilliant capacity as a former surveyor for including incredible amounts of detail in every tiny panel, so we could choreograph every little thing. The little symbols and signs appearing in the background, every little touch could be choreographed to the last detail, and we knew that the audience—because they'd be reading at their own pace—would be able to study each panel and to take in these almost subliminal details. Even the best director in the world, even a person as talented as Terry Gilliam, could not possibly get that amount of information into a few frames of a movie. Even if they did, it would have zipped past far too quickly. Because the audience at the movie theater is not in control of the experience in the same way somebody reading is.

One of my big objections to film as a medium is that it's much too immersive, and I think that it turns us into a population of lazy and unimaginative drones. The absurd lengths that modern cinema and its CGI capabilities will go in order to save the audience the bother of imagining anything themselves is probably having a crippling effect on the mass imagination. You don't have to do anything. With a comic, you're having to do quite a lot. Even though you've got pictures there for you, you're having to fill in all the gaps between the panels, you're having to imagine characters voices. You're having to do quite a lot of work. Not quite as much work as with a straight unillustrated book, but you're still going to do quite a lot of work.

I think the amount of work we contribute to our enjoyment of any piece of art is a huge component of that enjoyment. I think that we like the pieces that engage us, that enter into a kind of dialog with us, whereas with film you sit there in your seat and it washes over you. It tells you everything, and you really don't need to do a great deal of thinking. There are some films that are very, very good and that can engage the viewer in their narrative, in its mysteries, in its kind of misdirections. You can sometimes get films where a lot of it is happening in your head. Those are probably good films, but they're not made very much anymore.

There seems to be an audience that demands everything be explained to them, that everything be easy. And I don't think that's doing us any good as a culture. The ease with which we can accomplish or conjure any possible imaginable scenario through CGI is almost directly proportionate to how uninterested we're becoming in all of this. I can remember Ray Harryhausen's animated skeletons in Jason and the Argonauts. I can remember Willis O'Brien's King Kong. I can remember being awed at the artistry that had made those things possible. Yes, I knew how it was done. But it looked so wonderful. These days I can see half a million Orcs coming over a hill and I am bored. I am not impressed at all. Because, frankly, I could have gotten someone, a passerby on the street, who could have gotten the same effect if you'd given them half a million dollars to do it. It removes artistry and imagination and places money in the driver's seat, and I think it's a pretty straight equation—that there is an inverse relationship between money and imagination.

If you haven't got any money, you're going to need lots and lots of imagination. Which is why you'll get brilliant movies by people working upon a shoestring, like the early John Waters movies. People are pushed into innovation by the restrictions of their budget. The opposite is true if they have $100 million, say, pulling a figure out of the air, to spend upon their film, then they somehow don't see the need for giving it a decent story or decent storytelling. It seems like those values just go completely out the window. There's an inverse relationship there.

[number8]

Just to be clear, though, those are not at all the reasons I didn't like the movie.

[Watashi]

I really disagree with Moore on how CGI is completely financially-driven. Sorry, you can't take someone off the street and just expect them to know what to do with the right amount of money. The amount of artistry and imagination in CGI is just the same as it was in early stop-motion. Moore is just being his grumpy self as usual. He's the one who chanted out a curse on this movie to fail. Yeah, not happening.

[Sxottlan]

Seems like a lot of the internet critics are loving it, but not the major publications.

Backlash begins (http://weblogs.variety.com/hal/2009/03/are-we-watching-the-watchmen-backlash.html)?

[Winston*]

That's the second time this week I've read Alan Moore refer to John Waters when discussing artistic intergrity in film.

[megladon8]

I was with Moore until the fourth paragraph.

Then he just got retarded.

[Skitch]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I love Moore's work, but in real life that guy is a fucktard.

[[ETM]]

So Moore dislikes the medium of film itself as a tool for storytelling? That was an uncalled for and rather ignorant slap across the face of every visual artist who ever worked on digital effects. Film does have those problems he's describing, but he's waaay of the mark on the causes. Also, a well made film overcomes all of that easily.

[Lurker]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I love Moore's work, but in real life that guy is a fucktard.

Cool, you met him before then. Did you manage to get his autograph?

On a serious note, the gist of that Moore interview is that he thinks Hollywood produces more shitty movies than quality ones, not that he's dismissing films as an artform. He's being critical of the big budget blockbusters. Here's the full interview; http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollywood/magazine/17-03/ff_moore_qa?currentPage=all


Wired: That's a different axis than the intrinsic capabilities of the medium. That has to do with whether you screw it up. It's possible to do a good comic book and a bad comic book.

Moore: Of course, and it's possible to do a good film and a bad film. It's just that I don't see an awful lot of good films or good comic books, which considering the immense amounts of money that are pumped into the production of these things, I think I would ideally like a much better success ratio.

I don't agree with some of things he said but no, I don't see any display of fucktardery anywhere in this interview or past ones. Alan Moore =/ John Byrne.

[megladon8]

I'm with ETM in thinking his overly-generalized slap in the face of effects work was uncalled for.

Similarly, his saying that increased budget = decreased quality is just ludicrous.

He's a brilliant man. He should know that some things should be kept to himself, or at least that he should choose his words more carefully.

[Ezee E]

The low-budget John Waters films he likes the most.

...

..

.

Not even worth responding to him after that.

[MadMan]

Many of the movies I've liked over the years have been blockbusters. Hell, some great films are blockbusters. And yeah he is ignoring the fact that CGI isn't always done particularly well. Bad CGI can really hurt a movie, as can bad visuals and FX.

And the irony is that last year, because there was going to be a movie adaption of Alan Moore's great graphic novel, I finally went out and read it. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Mr. Moore :P

[Sycophant]

Backlash begins (http://weblogs.variety.com/hal/2009/03/are-we-watching-the-watchmen-backlash.html)?
Can you have a backlash against something that hasn't even been released yet?

[MadMan]

Can you have a backlash against something that hasn't even been released yet?Apparently. This will be followed by the backlash of the backlash, with more backlashing of backlashing of the backlash.

PS: I don't think "backlashing" is a word, but damnit I think it should be one.

[Acapelli]

Can you have a backlash against something that hasn't even been released yet?
this is the internet age, of course you can

[Ezee E]

this is the internet age, of course you can
I already hate Tree of Life and the Untitled Lincoln Biopic.

[Qrazy]

I already hate Tree of Life and the Untitled Lincoln Biopic.

Dinosaurs and stove pipe hat.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I already hate Tree of Life and the Untitled Lincoln Biopic.

I'm backlashing your hate. They were both just as superlative as the critics claimed.

[number8]

I'm going to start a backlash against the concept of backlashes. It's so trite.

[Ezee E]

I'm going to start a backlash against the concept of backlashes. It's so trite.
But then you become what you hate.

[Skitch]

I'm caught in an anti-backlash backlash vortex.

[number8]

Yeah, yeah, I'm a bitch bitch bitch:


Warner Bros. Digital Distribution today announced “Watchmen: Justice is Coming,” an online multiplayer game for the iPhone and iPod Touch based on the upcoming film Watchmen, from Warner Bros. Pictures and Paramount Pictures, in association with Legendary Pictures.

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/images/jic.jpg

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/photos/ss_costume.jpg

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/photos/ss_fight.jpg

[Dead & Messed Up]

Yeah, yeah, I'm a bitch bitch bitch:

:lol:

I attack with restored sexual potency!

My opponent counters with Utilitarian philosophy!

It's a draw!

[Sxottlan]

I think the pre-backlash is giving me whiplash. Or a lashed back, but that cost extra.

[megladon8]

I like that IMDb's first photo from the premiere is Zac Efron.

[Watashi]

Man, the top critics are ripping this film into shreds.

Armond White's review is entertaining in the typical LOL worthy form of criticism.

[Spun Lepton]

Armond White's review is entertaining in the typical LOL worthy form of criticism.

Link, please.

[Watashi]

Link, please.

http://www.nypress.com/article-19487-all-of-pop-culture-hangs-in-the-balance.html


Neither political satire nor camp, it fails the unique, fantasy mix of classicism and modernism that distinguished both 300 and Vin Diesel’s The Chronicles of Riddick.

[Spun Lepton]

Yeah, yeah, I'm a bitch bitch bitch:

Wow, so much Fail it's not even funny.

Okay, a little funny.

[Spun Lepton]

http://www.nypress.com/article-19487-all-of-pop-culture-hangs-in-the-balance.html

Good gaw ... this man is a real tool.


Snyder, at least, has a true movie sense; he’s a real filmmaker as opposed to Jon Favreau whose dunglike Iron Man was celebrated by film critics desperate to seem hip ...

Or maybe it was a really well-made film that people appreciated, and you're just a hipster wanna-be projecting your own shadow upon the rest of the critical world.


It’s often as dull as a David Fincher film...

:rolleyes:


Snyder shows no distinctive vision. He’s defeated by the false sophistication of graphic novels.

An accusation of "false sophistication"? From THIS GUY? How much irony can one website handle? False sophistication? REALLY, DUDE?


Among unsophisticated readers, Alan Moore’s melange of cultural history passes for postmodern analysis when it’s merely kitsch.


Neither political satire nor camp, it fails the unique, fantasy mix of classicism and modernism that distinguished both 300 and Vin Diesel’s The Chronicles of Riddick.

Yeah, this guy knows sophistication, all right.

Edit: Looks like they turned off comments on that review. BIG SHOCK! :lol:

[Dead & Messed Up]

Edit: Looks like they turned off comments on that review. BIG SHOCK! :lol:

In fairness, they have precious little time before someone asks White to suck the film's big blue dick.