Match Cut Madness 3: Best of the 00s

[Irish]

Psychoanalysis is super fascinating on screen.

Hard disagree. Most of the time it's used as a crutch, and I cringe whenever a character visits a shrink bc it's usually a sign the writer is out of ideas.

The problem is in using psychoanalysis as a shortcut, as a way of getting directly into the character's head in a way that's usually reserved to novels, and with characters suddenly exhibiting a level of emotional clarity and self awareness that no human being actually possesses.

The posted "Eternal Sunshine" clip is a bit wobbly. When what's-her-name-says "I'll get bored and leave you," it's a sneaky bit of dramatic irony. The audience already knows she'll throw the guy over, so when she delivers that startlingly self aware line, we can nod sagely and feel smart. It's is meant to be insightful moment that resonates with emotional depth, but it really doesn't do either.

youre comparing the characters in Closer to a sci-fi movie,

???

[Idioteque Stalker]

I cringe whenever a character visits a shrink bc it's usually a sign the writer is out of ideas.

Not disagreeing with you per se, but I couldn't help but think of the scene from Happiness in which Hoffman says, "I'm just such a boring person. People see me and say 'wow, how boring..." and the audio cuts to his shrink's inner monologue about picking up the kids from school, what's on the grocery list, etc. First of many laugh out loud moments from that movie.

Whatever happened to him anyway?

Gondry's movies receive just enough support that he hasn't been a total bust, but there's no discernible trajectory. For someone who is considered some type of auteur (mostly due to his music videos and Eternal Sunshine), I see no connective tissue whatsoever between stuff like Be Kind Rewind, The Green Hornet, The We and the I, Mood Indigo, and Is the Man Who Is Tall Happy. I watched his movies for a while but gave up following him. The only thing beyond Eternal Sunshine that's worth much to me is Dave Chappelle's Block Party (yet another wtf entry in his filmography).

[Dukefrukem]

Movie aren't real life. What matters isn't whether movie dialogue is realistic but whether it works dramatically.

For you.

[Idioteque Stalker]

The Final Four is now closed. Here are MC's results:

[

Show Spoiler

Spirited Away vs. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (UPSET + NAILBITER)
Memento vs. Wall-E

]

[Idioteque Stalker]

Voting for the Championship/Losers Bracket is now open! The Losers Bracket match-up is to determine 3rd place. Vote now by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

Championship
Spirited Away vs. Memento

Losers Bracket
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs. Wall-E

Voting closes in three days!

[transmogrifier]

Spirited Away
ESotSM

[megladon8]

Spirited Away
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

[baby doll]

I know youre comparing the characters in Closer to a sci-fi movie, but to twist it a bit, the characters in Before Sunrise are unpleasant, big stars, with dialogue in a ritzy setting (whatever the fuck that means). That honestly might be the dumbest criticism I've ever heard lol

I have no objection to big stars playing pleasant characters in ritzy settings if those characters are dramatically creditable and interesting (as indeed I find the characters to be in Before Sunset). The problem with Closer is that the characters are neither creditable nor interesting; thus, the film's attempt to make a Labute film for the multiplex audience seems all the more pointless.

[quido8_5]

Hard disagree. Most of the time it's used as a crutch, and I cringe whenever a character visits a shrink bc it's usually a sign the writer is out of ideas.

The problem is in using psychoanalysis as a shortcut, as a way of getting directly into the character's head in a way that's usually reserved to novels, and with characters suddenly exhibiting a level of emotional clarity and self awareness that no human being actually possesses.

The posted "Eternal Sunshine" clip is a bit wobbly. When what's-her-name-says "I'll get bored and leave you," it's a sneaky bit of dramatic irony. The audience already knows she'll throw the guy over, so when she delivers that startlingly self aware line, we can nod sagely and feel smart. It's is meant to be insightful moment that resonates with emotional depth, but it really doesn't do either.



???

I agree that's often used as a crutch, especially when literal therapy is employed, although there are some notable exceptions (Ordinary People and Good Will Hunting come to mind). I was thinking about this as being rooted in unconscious motivations and exploring how our formative experiences still shape us. That's such a compelling theme of Bergman and Allen, among many others, that is uniquely suited to the medium.

For example, what makes the final dialogue of Eternal Sunshine so resonate for me is that it concisely summarizes much of what the film is about: we can erase memories, we can believe there's a chance for autonomy, but we are all drawn to what (and who) we are drawn to. Clementine repeats her "I'm just a fucked up girl..." line and Joel is ineluctably drawn to that. Despite knowing that things will almost certainly not work out, they still go for it-- with a shrug. The final shot, for me, has always felt like a perfect represention of romantic relationships. This may not be the first time their relationship has been recapitulated and it likely isn't the last. It's all just a cycle that becomes more oblique and indistinct after each iteration.

[baby doll]

For you.

Movies, even documentaries, are not neutral transcriptions of some autonomously existing reality but are constructions. The art of cinema, or any medium, is a matter of the intentional selection and shaping raw material. There's no virtue in absolute verisimilitude.

[baby doll]

Spirited Away
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

[Idioteque Stalker]

I am flabbergasted by this championship match-up. Totally unexpected. I love it, but wtf?

[quido8_5]

There's no virtue in absolute verisimilitude.

Isn't this definitionally impossible? Verisimilitude implies that absolute replication of reality is impossible. I agree with your point, but I think having this idealistic, impossible goal is worth of pursuit.

[Irish]

the scene from Happiness

(Ordinary People and Good Will Hunting come to mind)

- In these examples, the shrink is a major character with their own independent scenes, interior life, and individual backstory. Two of those movies are about emotional growth and the therapeutic process. Obviously, this is outside the scope of what I was addressing.

- Of course there are exceptions. That's why I used the word usually.

uniquely suited to the medium

- "Ordinary People" was based on a novel sooooooo ... ???

- The edit is unique to movies. Everything else is begged, borrowed, or stolen.

[Skitch]

Isn't this definitionally impossible? Verisimilitude implies that absolute replication of reality is impossible. I agree with your point, but I think having this idealistic, impossible goal is worth of pursuit.

Welcome to conversation with BD. He will now proceed to completely change any and all parameters of whatever conversation you've decided to engage him in.

[Skitch]

???

I wanted to acknowledge that while we are discussing movies about relationships, one carries a heavy scifi element that doesn't exist in the other. I am admitting that I'm bringing an orange to an apple conversation per se.

[Skitch]

Spirited Away
Wall-E (I guess)

[quido8_5]

- In these examples, the shrink is a major character with their own independent scenes, interior life, and individual backstory. Two of those movies are about emotional growth and the therapeutic process. Obviously, this is outside the scope of what I was addressing.

- Of course there are exceptions. That's why I used the word usually.

- "Ordinary People" was based on a novel sooooooo ... ???

- The edit is unique to movies. Everything else is begged, borrowed, or stolen.

The shrink isn't the major character in either of those movies. We know very little about the interior life of the shrink (name I can't recall) and Sean from Hunting. We know some facts, but little outside of that. Considering the novel, once again this helps me to express how the medium of film does a better job of capturing themes better than the word. The novel is heart-wrenching. Seeing it, feeling the silence within the family, knowing what is left unsaid, all of this adds up to more than the sum of its parts. The book is great, the film is better.

[Skitch]

I'm not trying to get into your guys debate, but since it was mentioned...what a performance by Robin Williams in GWH. Sweet christmas

[Yxklyx]

Spirited Away vs. Memento

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs. Wall-E

[Yxklyx]

I am flabbergasted by this championship match-up. Totally unexpected. I love it, but wtf?

Well, the matchups kind of determine the champion which is why I was asking before - don't know of some other way to do them.

[Irish]

The shrink isn't the major character in either of those movies. We know very little about the interior life of the shrink (name I can't recall) and Sean from Hunting. We know some facts, but little outside of that. Considering the novel, once again this helps me to express how the medium of film does a better job of capturing themes better than the word. The novel is heart-wrenching. Seeing it, feeling the silence within the family, knowing what is left unsaid, all of this adds up to more than the sum of its parts. The book is great, the film is better.

A major character. A. Meaning that if you reduced the scenes around them, the movie would be significantly changed.

Besides that, I don't know what to tell ya if you can't see the inner life in Hirsch's or William's characters, or how they communicate that life through performance, outside of plot beats (ie, "facts").

how the medium of film does a better job of capturing themes better than the word

Whaaaaaa? Absolutely gobsmacked anyone could say this, about either medium.

knowing what is left unsaid

This suggests you're viewing the movie through the lens of the book.

(The movie is fine. The book is better bc it has more depth. The original story is about psychological distress, told in a medium that allows the reader direct insight into the characters' minds.)

[baby doll]

Isn't this definitionally impossible? Verisimilitude implies that absolute replication of reality is impossible. I agree with your point, but I think having this idealistic, impossible goal is worth of pursuit.

It seems to me that, if a goal is not only undesirable but also unachievable, there is no reason to pursue it.

[DFA1979]

I was thinking more Audition.

Oh God. That movie is beyond fucked up.

[baby doll]

Oh God. That movie is beyond fucked up.

My mother still talks about that movie.