Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

[Irish]

The movie is called Batman v Superman, and yet when the one and only fight starts, I was not clear on why they're fighting.

I've read this from a few sources, so you're not alone.

Also, I heard that Batman is .... uh .. .different?

[

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He kills people? With guns??? And brands criminals with a bat symbol so they will be murdered in prison???

]

Jesus Christ, what the fuck were they thinking? How do you take a character like Batman and have him do that?

[DavidSeven]

Jesus Christ, what the fuck were they thinking? How do you take a character like Batman and have him do that?

Because Zack Snyder.

[number8]

[

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He kills people? With guns??? And brands criminals with a bat symbol so they will be murdered in prison???

]

[

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Yes, as I understand it he only brands pedophiles, so that when they go to prison the other inmates will know immediately and kill them.

]

At the end of the movie he's [

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about to brand Luthor but then resists the urge, which I guess is this movie's idea of character development

].

[Morris Schæffer]

Also, I heard that Batman is .... uh .. .different?

[

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He kills people? With guns??? And brands criminals with a bat symbol so they will be murdered in prison???

]

Jesus Christ, what the fuck were they thinking? How do you take a character like Batman and have him do that?

I fail to see the problem here. It's a reinterpretation of the character, possibly appropriate for the times we live in. No holds barred, relentless, violent, grim, but as I said this Batman is part of a messy movie which still makes it impossible to feel anything for the character.

[number8]

I fail to see the problem here. It's a reinterpretation of the character, possibly appropriate for the times we live in. No holds barred, relentless, violent, grim, but as I said this Batman is part of a messy movie which still makes it impossible to feel anything for the character.

Yeah, honestly, I was so bored and restless by the movie that by the time he started mowing people down with guns I couldn't be bothered to muster any nerdrage about it.

It's meant to be Frank Miller's Batman anyway. The big scene where he overtly shoots someone to death is adapted verbatim from a scene in Dark Knight Returns.

[Melville]

It's meant to be Frank Miller's Batman anyway. The big scene where he overtly shoots someone to death is adapted verbatim from a scene in Dark Knight Returns.

Batman shoots someone to death in Dark Knight Returns?

[number8]

Batman shoots someone to death in Dark Knight Returns?

It's this scene. I know it's obscured enough to debate about in the comic (and it has been debated on for decades now), but clearly Snyder interprets it a certain way.

[Melville]

It's this scene. I know it's obscured enough to debate about in the comic (and it has been debated on for decades now), but clearly Snyder interprets it a certain way.

Ah, I see. Yeah, that scene is strangely ambiguous. Given that later in the comic, multiple people explicitly say Batman's never killed anyone, and he doesn't kill the Joker, I always assumed he either just wounded the guy or shot next to him to frighten him (which would fit with the mutant's facial expression but not with the apparent blood splatter). But I remember Snyder saying he likes the Comedian from Watchmen because "he's a bad ass", so I can see him interpreting this scene as Batman killing the guy.

[Irish]

It's this scene. I know it's obscured enough to debate about in the comic (and it has been debated on for decades now), but clearly Snyder interprets it a certain way.

Ha. I started re-reading The Dark Knight Returns late last night because so many BvS reviews mentioned it. I didn't remember this scene at all and was gonna ask what you thought of it today.

At the very least, it seems clear to me that the panels depict Batman picking up a gun and firing it, which contravenes much of what he says and does in the canon.

Given that later in the comic, multiple people explicitly say Batman's never killed anyone, and he doesn't kill the Joker, I always assumed he either just wounded the guy or shot next to him to frighten him (which would fit with the mutant's facial expression but not with the apparent blood splatter).

It isn't just that-- less than 10 pages later, he's debating whether to face off against the Mutant Leader mano e mano. Batman considers that he could kill the guy from inside the Batmobile by firing a weapon at him and then thinks, "But that would be crossing a line I set for myself years ago."

It makes the panels 8 posted even more incomprehensible. Miller seems to show Batman killing someone with a gun, but then almost immediately reinforces the idea that he doesn't kill.

[number8]

It's this scene. I know it's obscured enough to debate about in the comic (and it has been debated on for decades now), but clearly Snyder interprets it a certain way.

Oy. I was right.

I perceive it as him not killing directly, but if the bad guy’s are associated with a thing that happens to blow up, he would say that that’s not really my problem. A little more like manslaughter than murder, although I would say that in the Frank Miller comic book that I reference, he kills all the time. There’s a scene from the graphic novel where he busts through a wall, takes the guy’s machine gun…I took that little vignette from a scene in The Dark Knight Returns, and at the end of that, he shoots the guy right between the eyes with the machine gun.

[Skitch]

I was surprised people debate about that page in the book. Looks like his shoots him between the eyes to me.

[Morris Schæffer]

Yeah, honestly, I was so bored and restless by the movie that by the time he started mowing people down with guns I couldn't be bothered to muster any nerdrage about it.

It's meant to be Frank Miller's Batman anyway. The big scene where he overtly shoots someone to death is adapted verbatim from a scene in Dark Knight Returns.

What's at stake for the Batman/Wayne character? [

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Perhaps I simply don't remember because of the muddy nature of the story, but I genuinely don't feel there was anything worthwhile. Sure, he's a vigilante, keeping Gotham safe, which is enough impetus in and of itself, but not when an engaging movie needs to be delivered. The story didn't seem to hit Bruce on a personal level and this whole "I hate Superman because he destroys buildings and landmarks" just wasn't enough.

]

[number8]

What's at stake for the Batman/Wayne character? [

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Perhaps I simply don't remember because of the muddy nature of the story, but I genuinely don't feel there was anything worthwhile. Sure, he's a vigilante, keeping Gotham safe, which is enough impetus in and of itself, but not when an engaging movie needs to be delivered. The story didn't seem to hit Bruce on a personal level and this whole "I hate Superman because he destroys buildings and landmarks" just wasn't enough.

]

Great question. I have no idea.[

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I think I maybe missed something too, because when Superman shows up and tells Batman to pack up his shit out of nowhere, I was genuinely confused why. Did he just start watching the news and decide, "Eh, this Batman fellow is cramping my style"? What exactly led up to that confrontation?

Instead of delivering something about Batman's character that would make the fight have any meaning, we instead get half an hour of Lex Luthor sending them taunting letters like they're all in high school.

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