The News Thread

[Derek]

If you can't face the fact that Islam is simply a different beast in this day and age, then you're simply being naive. I'd respond to your previous post, but you're clearly not interested in learning or addressing context. You've already demonized him and refuse to be convinced otherwise, which I guess is fine, but I like to be challenged to think differently.

:lol:

Yes, this post clearly demonstrates how you love to think differently. Categorically dismiss the opposing the viewpoint, post a link to do heavy lifting for you, then pompously declare that you're the one with the moral and intellectual highground. Don't get me wrong, I admire the cajones that takes.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I think the main point here is that Muslims are wrong.

[number8]

I think the main point here is that Muslims are wrong.

Right.

[B-side]

:lol:

Yes, this post clearly demonstrates how you love to think differently. Categorically dismiss the opposing the viewpoint, post a link to do heavy lifting for you, then pompously declare that you're the one with the moral and intellectual highground. Don't get me wrong, I admire the cajones that takes.

Not at all. I used to hold Robby's viewpoint about torture. I refused to even entertain the idea that there was ever a point in which torturing somebody was not only preferable, but ideal or necessary. In fact, I was initially kinda disgusted at the little snippets I read in the Al Jazeera column. Of course, then I realized that Harris is an otherwise highly intelligent and reasonable person, so I decided to inform myself of the context and understand his justification before writing him off as a war-monger. That kind of stuff helps. And I never claimed to have the moral or intellectual highground here. I claimed to have a different point of view informed by a clearly differing understanding of Harris' writings and ideas. Robby's standpoint on torture and his visceral disgust at anyone even toying with the idea of torture as acceptable or the war in Iraq not being an entirely stupid idea are understandable responses, but Harris deals primarily in the abstract. He uses thought experiments to challenge neo-liberal ethical stagnation and willful ignorance. He's not advising policy. It's Harris' goal to trouble the waters, and he's clearly done so since he's made me re-evaluate my own previously strongly held convictions. Maybe that makes me the fool.

[Winston*]

And I never claimed to have the...intellectual highground here..

You clearly did.

If you can't face the fact that Islam is simply a different beast in this day and age, then you're simply being naive. I'd respond to your previous post, but you're clearly not interested in learning or addressing context. You've already demonized him and refuse to be convinced otherwise, which I guess is fine, but I like to be challenged to think differently.

[B-side]

You clearly did.

When it comes to addressing Harris' writing in context, yeah, I believe I do have the intellectual highground. But in terms of the overall debate, no, I wouldn't presume to have all the answers.

[Winston*]

When it comes to addressing Harris' writing in context, yeah, I believe I do have the intellectual highground. But in terms of the overall debate, no, I wouldn't presume to have all the answers.

You could just apologise to Robby P, who has nothing if not demonstrated himself an intelligent and well-read person on this site, for needlessly condescending to him.

[B-side]

You could just apologise to Robby P, who has nothing if not demonstrated himself an intelligent and well-read person on this site, for needlessly condescending to him.

I'm not going to apologize for thinking he's wrong or misguided in his approach. The debate was never whether or not he was intelligent -- and he certainly is -- it was whether his liberal leanings were obfuscating his ability to register Harris' work clearly. I don't think he's really grasping Harris' frame of reference or position as a thinker first and foremost. I'm quite liberal myself, so it's not like I don't get where he's coming from. I just happen to think he's being a bit naive.

[Robby P]

"Gitmo is Killing Me"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/op...anamo-bay.html

Mandatory reading. It's this generation's Letter From a Birmingham Jail.