Joker (Todd Phillips)

[megladon8]

Joker is a cold blooded murderer without remorse. I sincerely hope no one says "this movie gets me".

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Incels on the internet are loving him.

[Milky Joe]

Oh man I can't wait.

[Skitch]

Joker is a cold blooded murderer without remorse. I sincerely hope no one says "this movie gets me".

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I sincerely hope Juggalos stop being a thing.

[megladon8]

How did this go from being some kind of revelation that got a standing ovation at Venice, to 69% (and dropping) on RT, and most of the positive reviews are barely so?

[Milky Joe]

virtue signalling

[megladon8]

Yes, the left sabotaged Joker.

*eyeroll intensifies*

[Milky Joe]

I didn't say anything about sabotage or the left.

From the first 20 reviews from top critics (through mid-September), it was 50/50 fresh to rotten. So it's actually gone up.

[Peng]

really brings out the best in people, this film.

[[ETM]]

I kinda want to get into details but maybe when more people see it. I like it less the more time I have to think about it.

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[baby doll]

How did this go from being some kind of revelation that got a standing ovation at Venice, to 69% (and dropping) on RT, and most of the positive reviews are barely so?

I hadn't read that it got a standing ovation. I did read that it won the top prize from the jury, but that doesn't necessarily mean it went down well with either the premiere audience or reviewers, which are entirely distinct entities (i.e., industry insiders in evening wear attending a gala event versus underpaid freelancers watching the movie at a barebones daytime press screening). In any event, the response of the premiere audience shouldn't be taken as an indication of how the film was received by reviewers there.

[Irish]

I sincerely hope Juggalos stop being a thing.

I don't. They're their own thing and, from everything I've read, they leave people alone and just do that thing.

Plus, recently I heard that the ICP clown makeup confuses the shit out of facial recognition algorithms.

Imagine a month from now and seeing news footage of Hong Kong crowds ... and it's a bunch of Chinese juggalos running through the streets.

[Irish]

I hadn't read that it got a standing ovation. I did read that it won the top prize from the jury, but that doesn't necessarily mean it went down well with either the premiere audience or reviewers, which are entirely distinct entities (i.e., industry insiders in evening wear attending a gala event versus underpaid freelancers watching the movie at a barebones daytime press screening). In any event, the response of the premiere audience shouldn't be taken as an indication of how the film was received by reviewers there.

Standing ovation + the Lion + an insane amount of hype and praise from seemingly all quarters right after the film premiered. The contrast between then and now is stark.

[Skitch]

I don't. They're their own thing and, from everything I've read, they leave people alone and just do that thing.

Plus, recently I heard that the ICP clown makeup confuses the shit out of facial recognition algorithms.

Imagine a month from now and seeing news footage of Hong Kong crowds ... and it's a bunch of Chinese juggalos running through the streets.

Your pro-Juggalo stance will haunt you forever.

[TGM]

I liked it. It’s probably the best movie one could expect to get based off The Joker, and was certainly LEAGUES better than The Killing Joke animated film, as far as cinematic Joker origins stories are concerned. I’ll share my initial thoughts for now, though this is a movie that’s sort of hard to talk about without diving into major spoilers.

Phoenix is a force in this movie. I wouldn’t say he surpasses Ledger’s take, but there are moments where he is truly terrifying [

Show Spoiler

(the scissors murder)

], though there are admittedly times where his delivery doesn’t quite fully altogether work [

Show Spoiler

(his rantings of justice and such after he confesses to the murders on the talk show, which comes across as a little awkward. Though it can be argued that he’s still becoming acquainted with his new persona at this point, so it’s not an altogether failure here either)

]. On the whole though, yeah, I dug this. [

Show Spoiler

And especially dug the almost American Psycho approach to where we’re left questioning how much of the movie actually happened, and how much of it is in his head. The ambiguity in this regard definitely feels faithful to the mystery aspect behind the character’s true origins, and did a much better job here in presenting the whole “sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another” aspect that again didn’t quite come through in the animated Killing Joke.

]

I’ll also add, in regards to this movie being considered “problematic”, [

Show Spoiler

Joker is indeed portrayed to be the hero of his story, though that’s only because the movie takes place so strictly from his POV. The movie also makes it very clear that the dude is truly psychotic and delusional, and that any perceived heroism is indeed all in his head, and that his actions are seriously the work of a deranged individual. So yeah, again, in that regard, comparisons to movies like Taxi Driver and as I mentioned before, American Psycho, are certainly apt, and the movie works well as a character study in a similar vein. So is it problematic? Well, unless we’re willing to retroactively consider movies like those to also be problematic by today’s standards, then I say no. But then, people have way different standards today then they had back then, so who knows anymore?

]

[Weems]

I was bored. The only daring or interesting thing about the movie was the comically straight way they shot some of the gun violence. Everything else is just plagiarized elements of better movies. What the hell was the point of this? It has no thrills, no insight, Ledger destroys Joaquin's one-note sad sack...I just fail to see why someone would think this worth pursuing. It's like a high schooler "emulating" Hemingway's writing style by simply piling on short declarative sentences.

[Peng]

I’m really fascinated by the rewriting of Zazie Beetz’s character from the trashfire incel-fantasy type in Phillips’ first version of the script to the comparatively graceful presence in the final film. They feel like they are written by two different people; would love to read more about it (Beetz herself said the script was being rewritten everyday during shooting, although the actual trajectory of the film barely changes much, just her character, which may be why she feels that way.)

[Dukefrukem]

Can we all agree Leto is the worst Joker portrayal?

[TGM]

Can we all agree Leto is the worst Joker portrayal?

Yup.

Ledger
Phoenix
Nicholson
Leto

[TGM]

Also, I know it’s still early, but this is sitting quite well with me thus far. The more I think about it, the more it becomes apparent to me just how bone chillingly haunting this movie is at its core. Phoenix definitely succeeds at yet again bringing to life a truly terrifying portrayal of the character.

[TGM]

I’m really fascinated by the rewriting of Zazie Beetz’s character from the trashfire incel-fantasy type in Phillips’ first version of the script to the comparatively graceful presence in the final film. They feel like they are written by two different people; would love to read more about it (Beetz herself said the script was being rewritten everyday during shooting, although the actual trajectory of the film barely changes much, just her character, which may be why she feels that way.)

Honestly, if there was ever a movie where being rewritten during production was not only likely to its benefit, but also totally fitting at that, this is that movie.

[Dukefrukem]

Joker got an 8 minute standing O?

How about 20 minutes?

https://qz.com/quartzy/1625450/once-...tival-history/

[[ETM]]

One guy tried to clap at the end of our showing and stopped pretty abruptly.

[Skitch]

Huh. I remember Clerks 2 got 8 minute standing-O but was mysteriously left off that list.

I don't put much stock in such things. I mean, over 20 minutes of listening to people applaud? I'm not sure any film is that good.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I don't want to oversell this movie--it's not perfect--but isn't it obvious Joker is the best comic book movie ever made? The controversy is understandable: here is a film that takes some of the most popular IPs of its generation, presents it on a conveyer belt not-too-dissimilar from the MCU, and manages to shock--not so much with its violence, but rather with its message. Just like those poor kids who saw Spring Breakers in Panama City a few years back and suddenly didn't feel so good, hordes of people will see Joker and feel a little queasy about that comment they made to the weird kid down the hall.

To indict your own audience is a bold move. No wonder Joaquin Phoenix was on board. This is less Avengers--or The Dark Knight even--and more Taxi Driver, You Were Never Really Here, and Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer. Still, it's a movie that understands the gravity of its own box office potential, and furthermore leverages it to telegraph the message that we, as a society--and at nearly every possible level--are failing people like Arthur Fleck. To claim Joker as either the villain or the hero of this story is to stray from the point.

Yes, the new comic book movie has a point. Through indelible acting, editing, cinematography, costuming and music, it's actually communicating something. Some people aren't going to like that. I don't mean to downplay the successes of the MCU (I've liked many of those movies), but for a lot of people right now there are few things more boring than yet another superhero movie with a 90% tomatometer. Isn't it about time we got something like this? Isn't it about time this genre--which has long since perfected its escapist goals--tried something a little different? Joker turns our gaze from the spectacle on the screen toward something inside ourselves that is messy, even frightening, and begs the question: when the chips are down, do we truly have compassion in our hearts?

[[ETM]]

That's great, shame none of that was on the screen.

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