Horror, Fantasy, and other non-sci-fi genres...

[Dead & Messed Up]

The Ruins is one of the worst books I've ever finished (I still don't know why I kept with it). 200 pages could be ripped out without any impact what so ever; it is an extremely padded short story, at best.

The stuff at the beginning could've gone faster, for sure, but I thought the last two hundred pages were compelling in a dreadful, inexorable way. It reminded me of some of Clive Barker's stuff, in how the narrative barely outraces the deepening pit in my stomach.

Today I picked up The King in Yellow, the short story collection published in the 1850s that served as a launching pad for much of the Lovecraftian mythos, and Adrift on the Haunted Seas, the Best Short Stories of William Hope Hodgeson, another early author of the weird.

Cool. I've read a lot of Lovecraft, a fair amount of Howard and M. R. James, and a bit of Dunsany and Machen. You'll have to post your thoughts.

My horror streak continues now with cinema and The Spiral Staircase.

[chrisnu]

I just purchased Stephen King's It. I haven't read any of King's work before, and thought this might be a good place to start. I'm familiar with the TV movie, but doubt that will influence my reading that much.

Other than picturing Pennywise as Tim Curry. The book should be here in a few days, and I'll be sure to report on my progress.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I just purchased Stephen King's It. I haven't read any of King's work before, and thought this might be a good place to start. I'm familiar with the TV movie, but doubt that will influence my reading that much.

Other than picturing Pennywise as Tim Curry. The book should be here in a few days, and I'll be sure to report on my progress.

Hope you enjoy it. I found it interminable and full of King's worst excesses, but I'm in the minority.

[D_Davis]

Cool. I've read a lot of Lovecraft, a fair amount of Howard and M. R. James, and a bit of Dunsany and Machen. You'll have to post your thoughts.

My horror streak continues now with cinema and The Spiral Staircase.

Sounds good. Never read MR James - suggestions?

You should definitely check out Ligotti if you get a chance. I bet you dig his stuff.

[D_Davis]

My horror line up has changed a bit, for two reasons:

1. to focus only on short stories and novellas
2. to expand the number of authors being read

My new list consists of:

The Number 121 to Pennsylvania, by Kaelan Patrick Burke
The San Veneficio Canon (containing The Divinity Student), by Michael Cisco
Reassuring Tales, by T.E.D. Klein
Alone With the Horrors, by Ramsey Campbell
The King in Yellow, by Robert W. Chambers
Adrift on the Haunted Seas, by William Hope Hodgeson
Teatro Grottesco, by Thomas Ligotti

[Dead & Messed Up]

Sounds good. Never read MR James - suggestions?

His short story "Casting the Runes" was the story that inspired Tourneur's Night of the Demon. Out of the stories I've read, which number around four, I'd recommend "The Ash Tree." Considering that Lovecraft considered him one of the defining authors of his time, I bet you'd dig him.

You should definitely check out Ligotti if you get a chance. I bet you dig his stuff.

I'll see if the libraries have anything. Thanks, man!

[D_Davis]

His short story "Casting the Runes" was the story that inspired Tourneur's Night of the Demon. Out of the stories I've read, which number around four, I'd recommend "The Ash Tree." Considering that Lovecraft considered him one of the defining authors of his time, I bet you'd dig him.

Great, thanks. Have you read Cisco, Burke, or Klein?

[D_Davis]

The Damaged and the Diseased is the name for the final part of Ligotti's Teatro Grottesco, and it begins with the previously mentioned title story. This section is all about artists who go mad when faced or separated with their true identities.

Like I said earlier, it is hard to gain the tone of these pieces, but this is not a negative criticism. On the contrary, I believe it to be praise. Ligotti is not simply knocking down the pretentious artis, nor is he praising the eccentric ways of the artist. He is, rather, putting on display a number of scenarios illustrating the fragile psyches of certain kinds of artists, a kind of artist that I imagine Ligotti identifies with intensely.

The best of these stories is The Bungalow House; a gem of a story detailing the deranged antics of an artist and his performance art. The artist plays games with a museum curator, and in the process he discovers just how mad he truly is. The descriptions found on the tapes detailing the "dream monologues" is incredibly effective, and I would love to actually produce such a thing.

Gas Station Carnivals is also quite good, and contains a sinister character that will haunt my imagination for some time. This story contains a number of twists and turns, the reality of the situation is constantly shifting and folding in upon itself, thus mirroring the feelings of confusion and terror felt by the characters. And, if you ever find yourself staring at the back of the man with red hair, a cape, and a top hat, pray that he doesn't turn around.

[D_Davis]

The stuff at the beginning could've gone faster, for sure, but I thought the last two hundred pages were compelling in a dreadful, inexorable way. It reminded me of some of Clive Barker's stuff, in how the narrative barely outraces the deepening pit in my stomach.

I didn't feel a Clive Barker vibe at all. Barker usually deals with very human horror. He deals with body horror, a horror that stems from the very things that make us human, our dreams, desires, sexuality, artistic passions, and the fragile state of our mental and physical beings.

The Ruins felt like a novelization of a cheap, straight to video horror film cashing in on cheap Saw and Hostel imitations. It felt like a knock off of a knock off, of a knock off. So far as I can tell, it's only point was gore and misanthropy, and while the gore was gooey and pretty dang disgusting, it never really amounted to anything because the characters inflicted with the violence were despicable losers.

I thought it was poorly plotted, with a ton of missed opportunities to make it interesting. I don't mind that the mystery was never solved, but the real problem is that it is barely even presented. While some may find its single location brave, I found it dull, repetitive, and unappealing.

[D_Davis]

The Modern Weird Tale - S.T. Joshi

Wow, this Joshi dude really, really dislikes King's fiction, and stops just short of labeling him a total hack.

He asserts that King is popular for only these three reasons:

1. The Popularity of his film adaptations
2. His relentless output
3. Agressive marketing; King has become a brand and is less of an author

So far, with these first two essays I've read, Joshi comes across as a somewhat bitter, pompous ass. While he is definitely far more well read than I am, and he is a good writer, he seems to have a problem with pop-fiction.

He never once suggests that King might actually be a decent (to great) writer (which he is), and on the contrary he spends a great deal of time disparaging just about everything about King (except for the Bachman books).

I find it odd that be belittles King's use of the supernatural, and yet in a later essay he praises T.E.D. Klein saying that Klein's work is "among the most distinguished in the field of the weird." I find this odd because I see little, if any, difference between King's and Klein's use of the supernatural. I've read a great deal of King, and a great deal of Klein now (he has only written a few things: 1 novel (haven't read), 4 novellas (read), and a handful of short stories (read about 1/2 as of now), and I've actually discovered these two authors to be similar in many ways. Joshi rails agains the early King short stories claiming them to be poor Lovecraft pastiche, and yet Klein's collection of novellas, Dark Gods, is one giant homage to Lovecraft, conjuring his name more than a dozen times. Why disparage one and praise the other, when the quality of the two is similar on so many levels?

Why can't we like both? Why must one dismiss King in order to embrace Klein, Ligotti, and other lesser known authors? Sure, there are some hack authors in the field, but King is not one of them. While Joshi dismissed Blatty because of a difference in world views, it appears that he has dismissed King because of his popularity, as if he is not worthy of it.

Yes, I, too, am guilty of sometimes over praising the lesser known authors of genre fiction. However, I try not to do so at the expense of the popular ones. After all, Lovecraft is extremely popular, and deserves to be. And so does King. Philip K. Dick is now very popular, and he, too, has enjoyed popularity because of his film adaptations, but I will not turn my back on him simply so I can praise Sturgeon or Bester.

Mr. Joshi, I believe you need an attitude adjustment.

I have a couple more sections left in his King critique, so I'll chime in later with additional thoughts.

[D_Davis]

Reassuring Tales - T.E.D. Klein


So far, Reassuring Tales is kind of a disappointment.

Let me qualify this assessment with two items:

1. Anything would be disappointing after having just read Ligotti's Teatro Grottesco. I do not envy any book coming after that one. Ligotti is, after all, working on level far above most of his contemporaries.

2. I have also recently finished Klein's collection of novellas, Dark Gods, and it is fantastic; it is one of the finest collections I've read. To think that everything from this author would be that good may have been a mistake.

It's not that this collection is bad, it's just that there isn't enough that is remarkable. This problem may stem from the simple fact that Klein just didn't write much, and so there isn't a lot to choose from. So, what may have been a series of throwaway stories for a more prolific author wind up being this author's one and only short story collection. With so little to rely upon, each story needs to be as good as can be, and unfortunately most of these stories are rather weak - at least most of the ones I've read are thus far.

The first story, Camera Shy, is a totally forgettable vampire tale. I've never been fond of the vampire mythos, and Klein fails to present anything here to change my opinion.

Growing Things, the second tale (these stories are what I like to call "zingers"), is better than the first, but that's not saying much. It's clever in how it reveals the weird, but it doesn't amount to much of anything.

The same can also be said for the third story, Curtains for Nat Crumley. While this tale has more memorable moments and a more interesting protagonist than the previous stories, it is still limp and flaccid, barely containing any atmosphere.

The next two stories, Magic Carpet and One Size Eats All, are clever little zingers that would be great to read to a group of children while sitting around a campfire. But again, they are forgettable.

Ladder, the sixth story, finally something worth while. This is the Klein of Dark Gods. This story is clever in its plotting and its execution. Klein uses a creative literary puzzle/game to shape this tale, and it works out masterfully. This story brought a huge smile to my face, and it was a great relief to finally get to something this good (over 1/2 through the book).

Unfortunately, things fall off slightly with the seventh story, Well-Connected. Again it is merely okay, and contains a couple of memorable moments, but it is nothing worth spending any time with.

And that's where I left off. After seven stories, there isn't much to say. Unfortunately, I only have two more to read. There are actually three stories left unread in the collection, but I am not reading the final tale, The Events at Poroth Farm, because it is the basis for Klein's novel, The Ceremonies, which I am going to read in the very near future. Since that book is about 500 pages long, I want to go into it as fresh as possible.

So over all this collection is a major let down.

Where is the brilliance of Dark Gods? That book blew me away, it was partially responsible for this new found intense interest in weird fiction. Let's just say that I am glad I read that first rather than this collection.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Great, thanks. Have you read Cisco, Burke, or Klein?

No, no, and . . . no. I can't say I've heard of them. In my defense, I'm getting back into reading lately - I've been reading very little in the past, say, decade.

I didn't feel a Clive Barker vibe at all...

A fair point. My comment was specifically in regard to the growing sense of inevitable dread, the truly oppressive gloom of knowing that these characters are doomed to fail because of who they are. That may come from the fact that he's the closest analogue I could think of.

The Ruins felt like a novelization of a cheap, straight to video horror film cashing in on cheap Saw and Hostel imitations. It felt like a knock off of a knock off, of a knock off. So far as I can tell, it's only point was gore and misanthropy, and while the gore was gooey and pretty dang disgusting, it never really amounted to anything because the characters inflicted with the violence were despicable losers.

That may be the real difference then, because I felt a lot of empathy for these kids. They made a few dumb decisions at the beginning, but he spent so much time with them that I really came to feel for their plight as it progressed. A couple of them were "losers," I guess, but I certainly never thought they were despicable.

I thought it was poorly plotted, with a ton of missed opportunities to make it interesting. I don't mind that the mystery was never solved, but the real problem is that it is barely even presented. While some may find its single location brave, I found it dull, repetitive, and unappealing.

I didn't find the story perfect. I thought it could've been trimmed down at the beginning, and I think Smith went too far in all the abilities he granted the antagonist. I disliked the ending, which seemed too nihilistic, and I really disliked the epilogue, which is the one time I'd agree that it felt like a cheap movie-based ploy. "The End . . . ?"

I find it odd that be belittles King's use of the supernatural, and yet in a later essay he praises T.E.D. Klein saying that Klein's work is "among the most distinguished in the field of the weird." I find this odd because I see little, if any, difference between King's and Klein's use of the supernatural. I've read a great deal of King, and a great deal of Klein now (he has only written a few things: 1 novel (haven't read), 4 novellas (read), and a handful of short stories (read about 1/2 as of now), and I've actually discovered these two authors to be similar in many ways. Joshi rails agains the early King short stories claiming them to be poor Lovecraft pastiche, and yet Klein's collection of novellas, Dark Gods, is one giant homage to Lovecraft, conjuring his name more than a dozen times. Why disparage one and praise the other, when the quality of the two is similar on so many levels?

I haven't read Klein, so I can't attest to the comparison, but Joshi's annotations in the Penguin releases of Lovecraft's works are invaluable.

As for King, yes, much of his early short stories do play like obvious homage, but I can't imagine a critic disparaging "The Mist" or "The Jaunt" as drivel. The former, in fact, plays like superior Lovecraft to me. Lovecraft plus compelling interpersonal drama.

[Saya]

Finished the first book, Gardens of the Moon, in the Malazan Book of the Fallen series earlier this week. I thought the first 400/500 pages were kinda hard to get through because the world is so overwhelming and disorienting. It's like the author just throws you into the deep end of a pool. There is so much stuff going on that it's really hard to keep track of everything. But after a while it all settles down a bit and the book just 'clicked' for me and I really enjoyed the last couple hundred pages.

I just began reading, Deadhouse Gates, the second volume in the series.

[D_Davis]

I haven't read Klein, so I can't attest to the comparison, but Joshi's annotations in the Penguin releases of Lovecraft's works are invaluable.

As for King, yes, much of his early short stories do play like obvious homage, but I can't imagine a critic disparaging "The Mist" or "The Jaunt" as drivel. The former, in fact, plays like superior Lovecraft to me. Lovecraft plus compelling interpersonal drama.

I agree on both accounts.


By the way, you should definitely check out Klein's Dark Gods (my thoughts are in this thread somewhere). It is an amazing collection of 4 novellas. 3 of the 4 are absolutely stunning.

[D_Davis]

Finished the first book, Gardens of the Moon, in the Malazan Book of the Fallen series earlier this week. I thought the first 400/500 pages were kinda hard to get through because the world is so overwhelming and disorienting. It's like the author just throws you into the deep end of a pool. There is so much stuff going on that it's really hard to keep track of everything. But after a while it all settles down a bit and the book just 'clicked' for me and I really enjoyed the last couple hundred pages.

I just began reading, Deadhouse Gates, the second volume in the series.

This is one fantasy series I am interested in, although your post reminds me of why I don't read fantasy series. If 4/5 of the book is hard to get into, then what's the rest of the MASSIVE series like?

[D_Davis]

I finished the last two stories in Reassuring Tales, and they weren't very good.

S.F. has an interesting premise, but the execution is all but unreadable. As the title suggests, it is a science fiction story, and the S.F. also stands for Selective Forgetfulness, a device that allows people in the future to forget certain things. In this future, people watch their favorite movie and read their favorite book over and over again, for the "first" time each time. The story deals with other implications of such a device. However, it is written in the form of a letter to a small boy from his grandma, and it is full of embarrassing terms of endearment and little-baby talk. Most of the phrasing is trite and dreadful.

The final story isn't really a story; it is a short treatment for a television show. It's called, They Don't Write 'Em Like This Anymore, and it would have made an interesting episode of Amazing Stories, or perhaps the Twilight Zone.

As a matter of fact, most of these stories, except for Ladder and Well-Connected would make good anthology television, and it makes sense: Klein was EIC of Twilight Zone magazine for over a decade, and has had a very successful career as an editor.

His career as writer of prose is more hit and miss. I've read that, while he would like to write more fiction, he struggles with each and every word. He finds the process extremely hard, and not worth the effort he has to put in. This is a shame, because when he is on - as in Dark Gods - the man stands shoulder to shoulder with the best of them.


Oh well....


On then on to The King in Yellow. While the version I got contains other horror stories, I am only going to read the five which appeared in the original 1895 version.

The Yellow Sign
The Repairer of Reputations
The Mask
The Court of the Dragon
The Demoiselle d'Ys

[Saya]

This is one fantasy series I am interested in, although your post reminds me of why I don't read fantasy series. If 4/5 of the book is hard to get into, then what's the rest of the MASSIVE series like?

Yep, that's what I'm afraid of as well. The thing with this series is that Erikson's writing style is extremely fast paced. This was the main reason that I had a hard time getting into the story and book, because I'm not really used to this kind of writing. But then again people tell me the first book is the hardest to get through and it will get a better in the next few books. I hope they are right. I'll see how far I'll get.

I really do like the epic scope of the story and setting, but a little more characterization wouldn't hurt either.

I keep seeing this series being compared to George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series on a lot of sites. It's not so surprising because they are both epic fantasy series ofcourse. Despite that there are loads of differences between the series, I'd have to say that Martin's A Game of Thrones > Gardens of the Moon.

I'm also looking for some good standalone fantasy novels. You guys have any recommendations?

[D_Davis]

I'm also looking for some good standalone fantasy novels. You guys have any recommendations?

Hell yeah.

J.M McDermott's Last Dragon.

Best book I've read all year, and I've read a lot of books this year. Absolutely stunning, a new bellwether for the genre IMO. Sets a new bar very, very high.

Here is my review from this thread:

http://match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=84510&postcount=83

[D_Davis]

I finished The Yellow Sign this morning, first story in The King in Yellow, and it is fantastic. I love how he portrays the relationship between the artist and his model; it feels natural, and playful, almost Hitchcockian in its repressed sexuality - the lighting of both cigarettes with a single match, my God! (of course this was before Hitchcock, but I could totally imagine the scenarios Chambers presents in a Hitchcock film). You don't see this kind of romantic relationship in the stories of Lovecraft, Ligotti et al. It makes the horror all the more unsettling. I am looking forward to reading more.

[Saya]

Hell yeah.

J.M McDermott's Last Dragon.

Best book I've read all year, and I've read a lot of books this year. Absolutely stunning, a new bellwether for the genre IMO. Sets a new bar very, very high.

Here is my review from this thread:

http://match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=84510&postcount=83

Thanks. That sounds good. I'm gonna order some new books in a couple days so I'll include this one too.

[D_Davis]

The Repairer of Reputations, the second story in The King in Yellow, ends in a fury of insanity I've never before experienced. The mental deterioration of Hildred-Rex is deliciously maddening, absurd, and frightening.

The setting of this tale is a strange one. It takes place in the future of America - in the 1920s. We can look back on this now as an alternate history. America seems to be under some kind of martial law, or at least in a state of unrest and extreme military action. Other things have changed as well, such as the erecting of the Lethal Chambers - public suicide booths where people can freely go to escape their dreary lives.

At the center of the story are two fascinating characters, the aforementioned Hildred, and his accomplice in madness, Mr. Wilde. Mr. Wilde I will never forget. His deformed, earless head, his stumpy hand, and his short, squat illy-formed body will haunt my mind for some time. Not to mention his demonic cat hell bent and ripping his face to shreds.

Together, Mr. Wilde and Hildred possess the key to a trove of secret knowledge. A secret that, once revealed, will change the course of human history. There are hints of the Illuminati in this story, and yes, propping every thing up is the titular tome, The King in Yellow. The King in Yellow is a cursed play, one that calls readers to its pages, and then, once read, the knowledge of the book drives men insane.

Once again we are dealing with the idea that gnosis, and a deep understanding of things better left unlearned, can destroy humanity. I love these stories, stories dealing with secret books, shadow societies, and arcane knowledge lurking just below the surface of our mundane existence.

So far, The King in Yellow has surprised the hell out of me. It is absolutely fantastic, and even beyond its historic importance it is well-written, endlessly entertaining, and quite haunting.

[D_Davis]

I am not too familiar with this sub-genre of the weird, the romantic, or Victorian Ghost story. As a matter of fact, these two stories from The King in Yellow, The Demoisells d'Ys and The Mask may be my first introduction into this world.

I am having trouble connecting the first of these to the myth of the Yellow King - it seems the only connection is in the mentioning of Hastur, a figure who would eventually play a part in the mythos stories. However, here Hastur is falconiere, and is not mentioned enough to determine his dark abilities (perhaps I will understand more as I read more of mythos surrounding this character - I recently ordered The Hastur Cycle, a collection of mythos tales). This story tells the tale of a man who gets lost in an otherworldly moor, and discovers a small hunting village. Here he falls in love with the woman d'Ys, and discovers a disturbing truth. This particular tale is more romantic than haunting, and it is my least favorite of the collection.

The Mask is fantastic, and it combines the romantic longing and melancholy of the aforementioned story with the haunting atmosphere of the previous stories. Again Chambers illustrates his ability to deal with romantic relationships. This story is effective in that it expertly conveys the feelings of lost love while it also remains fantastic and weird.

While I don't think The Mask is as good as the first two stories in this collection, it is, none the less, a great read.

[D_Davis]

I finished the five tales I chose from The King in Yellow, and I am now moving on to some British horror with Ramsey Cambell's collection, Alone With the Horrors.

[D_Davis]

I really don't like these Ramsey Campbell stories.

While I've only read about a 1/4 of of stories in this book, I haven't truly enjoyed any of them. I've mildly liked a couple, but the rest are various shades of blah.

For the life of me, I just can't grasp any of his action description, and I find myself having to reread things over and over again to gain even a small understanding of what is happening to whom. I also find his grasp on character to be lacking. One story, The Interloper, takes place at a school. By the way the students talk and act, I kept imagining the school being a high school or a college, and yet Campbell mentions recess and the playground. And then the teacher is only called Scott - is this his first name, or his last name? Mr. Scott, or just Scott?

I also don't like it when authors switch between calling a character by his last name and his first name. I understand the longing for variety, but it simply causes confusion in my mind, especially in short stories where the narrative is short and we don't really have much time to get to know the characters.

So, unless someone can point out some exceptional stories in this anthology, I am giving up on it. It's totally ruined the mood and momentum built up by Ligotti and Chambers.

[D_Davis]

You know what I hate?

I'll tell you.

I hate discovering a new author, reading a couple of stories, falling in love with the dude's work, and then further discovering that most of the author's stuff is OOP or released in super expensive limited editions.

Why?

In this day and age, with PDFs and print on demand, an OOP, limited edition book should be a thing of the past. I understand wanting to make available a nice edition for collectors, but what about readers? What about people like me who don't care about the condition of the book? I just want to read the stories. I also want to support the authors I love, and so when I see that certain books by certain authors sell on the secondary markets for hundreds of dollars more than their original cover price, it just doesn't make any sense to me. The author isn't getting a cut of this, the publisher isn't getting a cut of this, it's not even registered as a "sell" to anyone who monitors such things. However, small press, and limited run collectors editions seem to be the only place where quality horror is alive and well.

This is really just a round about way of saying that, so far, I've enjoyed the hell out of Kealan Patrick Burke's recently released anthology, The Number 121 to Pennsylvania. I purchased this book on a whim (and yes, I had to buy an expensive collectors edition, signed and numbered) and I was secretly hoping it would suck so that I wouldn't want to buy and read any more from this author - his other books are even more expensive.

I can't afford another Lansdale or Ligotti.

The first two stories in this collection are fantastic. In many ways, and I mean this with the best possible intentions, even though some lit-snobs may scoff at the comparison, Burke reminds me of Stephen King. His prose is simple and straightforward, and he seems more concerned with telling a good story with memorable characters than he does with impressing his readers with his vocabulary and sentence structure. Not that there is anything wrong with dense and flowery prose, especially in the realms of the weird (I wouldn't want Lovecraft, Ligotti, Chambers, and C.A. Smith any other way), but sometimes I just want a good story, and just as T.E.D. Klein delivered with Dark Gods, so to does Burke.

Now I may be jumping the gun. After all, I've only read two out of the dozen or so stories, but I have a really good feeling.

The first story, The Grief Frequency, is a somber little ghost story that packs a hard emotional punch. Burke drew a big emotional response from me with this one. Some might argue that its subject matter is manipulative, but then I might argue that part of an author's job is to manipulate. It's all in the sincerity of the execution, and I feel as though Burke is sincere in his intentions.

The titular story is also a ghost story, one that conjures the romantic notions of the old railways, but one that is twisted with a sense of the macabre. Like the first story, this one is haunted with an atmosphere of loss and yearning. The story is wistful, and it makes me want to sit in front of a large window on a cold rainy day just watching the rain fall.

I am greatly anticipating what else Burke has in store for me. I must also plead with him and his publishers (I am going to post this at goodreads, where he is also a member) to make available more stuff in more affordable editions. I don't feel right recommending an author when his stuff is a) super hard to find (something I do far too often) and b) very expensive.