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Thread: Licorice Pizza (Paul Thomas Anderson)

  1. #1
    Evil mind, evil sword. Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    Licorice Pizza (Paul Thomas Anderson)

    Last Five Films I've Seen (Out of 5)

    Earwig (Hadzihalilovic, 2022) 4
    Three Colors: Red (Kieslowski, 1994) 4.5
    Three Colors: White (Kieslowski, 1994) 4
    Bodies Bodies Bodies (Reijn, 2022) 4.5
    Medusa (da Silveira, 2022) 4.5
    The Hidden Fortress (Kurosawa, 1958) 4
    Stagefright (Soavi, 1987) Right between the eyes
    Tropical Malady (Weerasethakul, 2004) 4
    No Holds Barred (Wright, 1989) DOOKIE?!?
    Ready To Rumble (Robbins, 2000) 3
    Groundhog Day (Ramis, 1993) 4.5
    Head (Rafelson, 1968) 4.5
    Nope (Peele, 2022) 4.5
    Happy Together (Kar-wai, 1997) 4
    The Gray Man (Russos, 2022) 2.5
    The Ring (Verbinski, 2002) 4
    Basic Instinct (Verhoeven, 1995) 4.5
    But I'm A Cheerleader (Babbit, 2000) 4.5
    Minions 2: The Rise of Gru (Balda, 2022) 2.5
    Marcel The Shell With Shoes On (Flesicher-Camp, 2022) 5
    The Muppet Movie (Frawley, 1979) 4.5
    Pee Wee's Big Adventure (Burton, 1985) 3.5
    Beba (Huntt, 2022) 4.5

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  2. #2
    Evil mind, evil sword. Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    Last Five Films I've Seen (Out of 5)

    Earwig (Hadzihalilovic, 2022) 4
    Three Colors: Red (Kieslowski, 1994) 4.5
    Three Colors: White (Kieslowski, 1994) 4
    Bodies Bodies Bodies (Reijn, 2022) 4.5
    Medusa (da Silveira, 2022) 4.5
    The Hidden Fortress (Kurosawa, 1958) 4
    Stagefright (Soavi, 1987) Right between the eyes
    Tropical Malady (Weerasethakul, 2004) 4
    No Holds Barred (Wright, 1989) DOOKIE?!?
    Ready To Rumble (Robbins, 2000) 3
    Groundhog Day (Ramis, 1993) 4.5
    Head (Rafelson, 1968) 4.5
    Nope (Peele, 2022) 4.5
    Happy Together (Kar-wai, 1997) 4
    The Gray Man (Russos, 2022) 2.5
    The Ring (Verbinski, 2002) 4
    Basic Instinct (Verhoeven, 1995) 4.5
    But I'm A Cheerleader (Babbit, 2000) 4.5
    Minions 2: The Rise of Gru (Balda, 2022) 2.5
    Marcel The Shell With Shoes On (Flesicher-Camp, 2022) 5
    The Muppet Movie (Frawley, 1979) 4.5
    Pee Wee's Big Adventure (Burton, 1985) 3.5
    Beba (Huntt, 2022) 4.5

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  3. #3
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Kind of like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, this works nicely as a strange wandering drift through Los Angeles, in this case, during a coming-of-age story in the early 70's. Separate bits with various characters have moments that are certainly charming to watch. It never really hits like OUATIH, and I think that's because there's never really a boiling kettle type of moment, but the main characters give the type of feeling that you'd watch this world as long as you can.

    Barbarian - ***
    Bones and All - ***
    Tar - **


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  4. #4
    Cinematographer Mal's Avatar
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    This feels like the younger sibling of OUATIH, definitely, but also has brief traces of Boogie Nights and Inherent Vice. L.A. connections aside, the script itself felt too loose for my liking. It dances a little with a whimsical idea of the 70s where kids can be kids and Hollywood people are nuts, but its not deep beyond its observations and brief bits of real world events/inspirations. Its a hangout film, sure, though for me it might have been nice to have a little more to chew on, especially since Alana's character spoke to me on the level of feeling lost when you're post-education and need to get a job/life while also seeking potential romantic partners. Cinematography and the all-too-brief Bradley Cooper, along with Alana's stellar performance, were my favorite features of this. But considering PTA's other films and stories, this ultimately feels insufficient and dissatisfying as a part of his filmography.
    Last edited by Mal; 12-27-2021 at 05:15 AM.

  5. #5
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Regarding the "age discourse," I have a few feelings on it that speak to the movie itself, rather then just screaming at 15 yo kid w/25 yo gal.

    I don't even know that Alana's character is necessarily telling the truth. She lies throughout the movie about her age and I don't believe we actually see her drinking on her own, unless a drink is provided to her that she had little to no idea on how to order from my recollection. If it turns out that she's not 21 yet, does this change everyone's faux outrage? I suppose being the "chaperone" in New York could work, but there seems to be little to no actual verification in this case. I also enjoy her curiosity with different men that are showing interest in her, and the sometimes misinterpretation she has when it turns out that they don't have the same type of interest that other men do, whether it's to just be a young girl at their side, a quick kiss, or who knows what (Penn).

    With that, I think Cooper Hoffman also knows she's lying, whether it's seeing her in school previously, or just not really caring anyway. I think the movie gives him more maturity then he probably should, but I really liked his confusion on whether he was truly dating or not, how to introduce himself to others, his reaction when Alana would correct him or describe her connection to others. Age difference or not, I think this can apply at any age.

    Barbarian - ***
    Bones and All - ***
    Tar - **


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  6. #6
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    I get more annoyed that if the genders were reversed, there would be such a moral outrage today, that PTA wouldn't even bother I don't think. Something like Manhattan (17-year-old girl w/ 30-something man, treated as totally normal) would never get made, let alone even more transgressions like Lolita or Pretty Baby. But 20-something (maybe 25?) woman w/ a 15-year-old boy gets a minor kerfuffle.
    Ratings on a 1-10 scale for your pleasure:

    Top Gun: Maverick - 8
    Top Gun - 7
    McCabe & Mrs. Miller - 8
    Crimes of the Future - 8
    Videodrome - 9
    Valley Girl - 8
    Summer of '42 - 7
    In the Line of Fire - 8
    Passenger 57 - 7
    Everything Everywhere All at Once - 6



  7. #7
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Some are confused at why Red Rocket isn't getting any outrage. I don't think they've seed Red Rocket.

    Barbarian - ***
    Bones and All - ***
    Tar - **


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  8. #8
    Cinematographer Mal's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    Some are confused at why Red Rocket isn't getting any outrage. I don't think they've seed Red Rocket.
    There's still time for this to happen, especially since the LP discourse seems to be winding down a bit after a long month.

  9. #9
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Mal (view post)
    There's still time for this to happen, especially since the LP discourse seems to be winding down a bit after a long month.
    I don't think it'll get the viewership needed unless it managed to somehow get in the Oscar race.

    Barbarian - ***
    Bones and All - ***
    Tar - **


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  10. #10
    Evil mind, evil sword. Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    Saw someone on TikTok call Licorice Pizza a 'red flag' movie and her exact words afterwards were, 'I don't wanna see the comments telling me that I lack media literacy because of it'.

    So now asking for media literacy is just 'something toxic film bros do'. Gag me with a spoon.
    Last Five Films I've Seen (Out of 5)

    Earwig (Hadzihalilovic, 2022) 4
    Three Colors: Red (Kieslowski, 1994) 4.5
    Three Colors: White (Kieslowski, 1994) 4
    Bodies Bodies Bodies (Reijn, 2022) 4.5
    Medusa (da Silveira, 2022) 4.5
    The Hidden Fortress (Kurosawa, 1958) 4
    Stagefright (Soavi, 1987) Right between the eyes
    Tropical Malady (Weerasethakul, 2004) 4
    No Holds Barred (Wright, 1989) DOOKIE?!?
    Ready To Rumble (Robbins, 2000) 3
    Groundhog Day (Ramis, 1993) 4.5
    Head (Rafelson, 1968) 4.5
    Nope (Peele, 2022) 4.5
    Happy Together (Kar-wai, 1997) 4
    The Gray Man (Russos, 2022) 2.5
    The Ring (Verbinski, 2002) 4
    Basic Instinct (Verhoeven, 1995) 4.5
    But I'm A Cheerleader (Babbit, 2000) 4.5
    Minions 2: The Rise of Gru (Balda, 2022) 2.5
    Marcel The Shell With Shoes On (Flesicher-Camp, 2022) 5
    The Muppet Movie (Frawley, 1979) 4.5
    Pee Wee's Big Adventure (Burton, 1985) 3.5
    Beba (Huntt, 2022) 4.5

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  11. #11
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ivan Drago (view post)
    Saw someone on TikTok call Licorice Pizza a 'red flag' movie and her exact words afterwards were, 'I don't wanna see the comments telling me that I lack media literacy because of it'.

    So now asking for media literacy is just 'something toxic film bros do'. Gag me with a spoon.
    She won't go far.

    Barbarian - ***
    Bones and All - ***
    Tar - **


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  12. #12
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ivan Drago (view post)
    Saw someone on TikTok call Licorice Pizza a 'red flag' movie and her exact words afterwards were, 'I don't wanna see the comments telling me that I lack media literacy because of it'.

    So now asking for media literacy is just 'something toxic film bros do'. Gag me with a spoon.
    Your first mistake is engaging in TikTok. TikTok makes Twitter and Facebook seem like Harold Bloom's Western Literature Canon in comparison. TikTok is also a known front for Chinese data mining.
    Ratings on a 1-10 scale for your pleasure:

    Top Gun: Maverick - 8
    Top Gun - 7
    McCabe & Mrs. Miller - 8
    Crimes of the Future - 8
    Videodrome - 9
    Valley Girl - 8
    Summer of '42 - 7
    In the Line of Fire - 8
    Passenger 57 - 7
    Everything Everywhere All at Once - 6



  13. #13
    This is actually getting a theater release in Korea in 3 weeks. Excited!
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

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    Listening Habits at LastFM

  14. #14
    This is the type of movie I expect will grow on me over the years, but I must admit at this point from PTA I want something more. It's like a warm fuzzy blanket -- not bad in any way, but I was expecting an electrical shock.

    No idea what they were going for with the Japanese thing.

  15. #15
    Can't stop won't stop DFA1979's Avatar
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    This was fantastic even though they could have cut a few subplots. The young cast did a fine job. Cooper sure gets a lot of notice for being in this movie hardly at all.
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  16. #16
    Evil mind, evil sword. Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    Your first mistake is engaging in TikTok. TikTok makes Twitter and Facebook seem like Harold Bloom's Western Literature Canon in comparison.
    Yeah it's only good for food recipes and cat videos. I try to breeze past any kind of film discourse on it at this point.

    On a side bar, an asshole in my critic group got on my case for venting about the state of film criticism and the Licorice Pizza discourse over Facebook a couple months ago and tried to make me into the bad guy. Sorry I can tell when a movie's making fun of the problems from society's past?

    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    TikTok is also a known front for Chinese data mining.
    Even though I don't post anything or use my name or phone number?
    Last Five Films I've Seen (Out of 5)

    Earwig (Hadzihalilovic, 2022) 4
    Three Colors: Red (Kieslowski, 1994) 4.5
    Three Colors: White (Kieslowski, 1994) 4
    Bodies Bodies Bodies (Reijn, 2022) 4.5
    Medusa (da Silveira, 2022) 4.5
    The Hidden Fortress (Kurosawa, 1958) 4
    Stagefright (Soavi, 1987) Right between the eyes
    Tropical Malady (Weerasethakul, 2004) 4
    No Holds Barred (Wright, 1989) DOOKIE?!?
    Ready To Rumble (Robbins, 2000) 3
    Groundhog Day (Ramis, 1993) 4.5
    Head (Rafelson, 1968) 4.5
    Nope (Peele, 2022) 4.5
    Happy Together (Kar-wai, 1997) 4
    The Gray Man (Russos, 2022) 2.5
    The Ring (Verbinski, 2002) 4
    Basic Instinct (Verhoeven, 1995) 4.5
    But I'm A Cheerleader (Babbit, 2000) 4.5
    Minions 2: The Rise of Gru (Balda, 2022) 2.5
    Marcel The Shell With Shoes On (Flesicher-Camp, 2022) 5
    The Muppet Movie (Frawley, 1979) 4.5
    Pee Wee's Big Adventure (Burton, 1985) 3.5
    Beba (Huntt, 2022) 4.5

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  17. #17
    Can't stop won't stop DFA1979's Avatar
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    All social media mines your data. It's just a Chinese company instead of an American one oh boy.
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    It's a luscious mix of words and tricks
    That let us bet when you know we should fold
    On rocks I dreamt of where we'd stepped
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  18. #18
    Producer Yxklyx's Avatar
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    Waiting for the matchcut.artboiled.com data leak.

  19. #19
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    Feels like PTA writes the age gap in just because he wants a reason for Alana to instantly keep Gary at arm's length, thus having the relationship in the realm of thorny and vacillating like several in his past films. Because apart from the two leads' initial meeting and some references here and there, PTA seems to barely write Gary like a 15-year-old at all. Among other things, Gary's ability to start several entrepreneur businesses so effortlessly makes it often distracting to work out if Gary is actually near the end of or has passed his high school years yet (nope on both counts, it turns out), straining plausibility at times. It makes the age gap on Gary's part a bit of inconsistent writing from PTA, to push this relationship arc into where he wants to go.

    It is the film's one real if consistent blip for me (right to the end which seems to break the vacillating give-and-take of the relationship down too definitely), because this may be among PTA's most accessible films on pure surface pleasure, an amalgam of loose, shaggy, freewheeling atmosphere with screwball spirit at heart. It's buoyed by a great, great ensemble all around too, led by Cooper Hoffman's winningly awkward swagger and especially Alana Haim's megawatt natural charisma. If PTA falters a bit with Gary's writing, at least the film cedes its focus increasingly to Alana, whose the director really nails the deep melancholy of her trying to find direction in life, and in which Haim more than rises up to the task of investing it with real, tangible yearning too. 8/10
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  20. #20
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    I rewatched it, and I still can't square the last ten minutes of the movie with certain moments before. There's a nice point when Alana is watching Gary and his teenage entourage pantomime sex with gas cans and Alana realizes how young and juvenile they all are. This is the moment she decides to volunteer for the mayor candidate and grow up a bit. Also don't quite get how the discovery of the mayor candidate's homosexuality would trigger her to go running back to Gary in a moment of punch-drunk love. I get the idea PTA wants us to be throwing our fist up in the sky with joy like Bender in The Breakfast Club for our couple, but instead I'm always left with a "hmmm .. ok ... I guess?" response to the ending.

    It's too bad since I think 90% of this is really great. So many great side performances. The woman who plays Alana's agent is amazing. Even the guy with the Japanese wives is great. I know it's problematic but I admit I laughed at how ridiculous he is. He's not even racist in a mean spirited way, he's just a clueless weirdo, but that's also accurate for the time. Seems like Los Angeles in the '70s was pretty ignorant of East Asian culture, to the point where no one knew anything about Japanese cuisine. I'm sure people assumed it was the same as Chinese food.
    Last edited by Pop Trash; 02-23-2022 at 10:37 PM.
    Ratings on a 1-10 scale for your pleasure:

    Top Gun: Maverick - 8
    Top Gun - 7
    McCabe & Mrs. Miller - 8
    Crimes of the Future - 8
    Videodrome - 9
    Valley Girl - 8
    Summer of '42 - 7
    In the Line of Fire - 8
    Passenger 57 - 7
    Everything Everywhere All at Once - 6



  21. #21
    Can't stop won't stop DFA1979's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Yxklyx (view post)
    Waiting for the matchcut.artboiled.com data leak.
    It will turn out to be Rebort's fault all along.
    Blog!

    It's a luscious mix of words and tricks
    That let us bet when you know we should fold
    On rocks I dreamt of where we'd stepped
    And of the whole mess of roads we're now on

  22. #22
    Can't stop won't stop DFA1979's Avatar
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    I agree the movie lacks a normal, less open ending. I don't mind that although I had no idea the movie had concluded until the opening credits started rolling.
    Blog!

    It's a luscious mix of words and tricks
    That let us bet when you know we should fold
    On rocks I dreamt of where we'd stepped
    And of the whole mess of roads we're now on

  23. #23
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    I rewatched it, and I still can't square the last ten minutes of the movie with certain moments before. There's a nice point when Alana is watching Gary and his teenage entourage pantomime sex with gas cans and Alana realizes how young and juvenile they all are. This is the moment she decides to volunteer for the mayor candidate and grow up a bit. Also don't quite get how the discovery of the mayor candidate's homosexuality would trigger her to go running back to Gary in a moment of punch-drunk love. I get the idea PTA wants us to be throwing our fist up in the sky with joy like Bender in The Breakfast Club for our couple, but instead I'm always left with a "hmmm .. ok ... I guess?" response to the ending.

    It's too bad since I think 90% of this is really great. So many great side performances. The woman who plays Alana's agent is amazing. Even the guy with the Japanese wives is great. I know it's problematic but I admit I laughed at how ridiculous he is. He's not even racist in a mean spirited way, he's just a clueless weirdo, but that's also accurate for the time. Seems like Los Angeles in the '70s was pretty ignorant of East Asian culture, to the point where no one knew anything about Japanese cuisine. I'm sure people assumed it was the same as Chinese food.
    Film Twitter is way off on that one for exactly your point.

    It's a movie where I certainly don't understand many of its motivations, but its breezy nature still is enjoyable to watch in its own episodic way.

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  24. #24
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    I think the point of the age gap is precisely that Gary is very mature for his age in a gifted child prodigy kind of way (and remember, PTA has dealt with this type of character before in Magnolia) while Alana is a bit inmature for her age, and it's implied a bit that her family makes her feel that way. Emotionally, they're both clueless.

    I agree that this movie is a lot lighter than PTA's latest output, but I believe that's the intention, to make a breezy time capsule, an continuing the ongoing cinematic dialogue he's been having wiith Tarantino. Loved the way the cast is put together with zero regards for fame and name status. And by the way, the water mattress guy is Di Caprio's father.

  25. #25
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    Seems like Los Angeles in the '70s was pretty ignorant of East Asian culture, to the point where no one knew anything about Japanese cuisine. I'm sure people assumed it was the same as Chinese food.
    It was probably only around that time that the Western world started consuming it. Everything else in the movie seems pretty well documented.

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