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Thread: Match Cut Madness 3: Best of the 00s

  1. #576
    I still haven't seen Closer or anything from Labute.

    Championship
    Spirited Away vs. Memento-Both are great but I was hoping In The Mood For Love would have made it here. Oh well.

    Losers Bracket
    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs. Wall-E-Two movies I love although i much prefer ESOTSM. I don't really feel the need to see Wall-E again where as I've viewed Eternal at least three or four times.
    Blog!

    I really don't care anymore
    About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
    And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
    And everybody puttin' everybody else down
    And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

  2. #577
    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    My mother still talks about that movie.
    I finally saw it this year. I thought the movie was freaky before that infamous final act.
    Blog!

    I really don't care anymore
    About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
    And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
    And everybody puttin' everybody else down
    And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

  3. #578
    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Movies, even documentaries, are not neutral transcriptions of some autonomously existing reality but are constructions. The art of cinema, or any medium, is a matter of the intentional selection and shaping raw material. There's no virtue in absolute verisimilitude.
    Huh I actually agree with you here. Hell just froze over we can skate home folks.
    Blog!

    I really don't care anymore
    About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
    And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
    And everybody puttin' everybody else down
    And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

  4. #579
    Spirited Away vs. Memento
    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs. WALL-E
    Last Seen:​
    Infinity Train, Book 2: Cracked Reflection (O. Dennis, 2020)
    Wolfwalkers (T. Moore/R. Stewart, 2020)
    Us (J. Peele, 2019) ☆
    Archer, S12 (A. Reed, 2021) ☆
    Infinity Train, Book 1: The Perennial Child (O. Dennis, 2019)
    Brooklyn Nine-Nine, S8 (D. Goor/M. Schur, 2021) ☆
    Spielberg (S. Lacy, 2017) ☆
    Central Park, S2a (J. Gad/L. Bouchard/N. Smith, 2021) ☆
    Batman: The Long Halloween, Part 2 (C. Palmer, 2021) ☆
    Central Park, S1 (J. Gad/L. Bouchard/N. Smith, 2020) ☆

    First time ☆

  5. #580
    Screenwriter
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    Spirited Away vs. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
    Memento vs. Wall-E


    Championship
    Spirited Away vs. Memento

    Losers Bracket
    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs. Wall-E
    Last edited by Peng; 09-04-2021 at 11:56 AM.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  6. #581
    Quote Quoting Peng (view post)
    Spirited Away vs. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
    Memento vs. Wall-E
    That was last round.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  7. #582
    Screenwriter
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    That was last round.
    Whoops, came in late and clicked back too far lol. Thanks, added in that comment.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  8. #583
    Super Moderator dreamdead's Avatar
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    Championship
    Spirited Away vs. Memento

    Losers Bracket
    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs. Wall-E
    Ant-Man and the Wasp - 5
    Hereditary - 7
    Won't You Be My Neighbor? - 7.5
    The Tale - 8

  9. #584
    Screenwriter Lazlo's Avatar
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    Championship
    Spirited Away vs. Memento

    Losers Bracket
    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs. Wall-E
    last four:
    black widow - 8
    zero dark thirty - 9
    the muse - 7
    freaky - 7

    now reading:
    lonesome dove - larry mcmurtry

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    The Harrison Marathon - A Podcast About Harrison Ford

  10. #585
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    The problem with Closer is that the characters are neither creditable nor interesting;
    For you. And your life experience.

    thus,
    Using this word in this way makes it seem like your opinion must be a fact, when it is an opinion. One you are welcome to have.

  11. #586
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    For a rather maddening tourney, the finals are blowouts:

    Spirited Away
    Eternal Sunshine

    Nobody - ***
    Dune - *** 1/2
    Raw - ** 1/2


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  12. #587
    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    A major character. A. Meaning that if you reduced the scenes around them, the movie would be significantly changed.

    Besides that, I don't know what to tell ya if you can't see the inner life in Hirsch's or William's characters, or how they communicate that life through performance, outside of plot beats (ie, "facts").



    Whaaaaaa? Absolutely gobsmacked anyone could say this, about either medium.



    This suggests you're viewing the movie through the lens of the book.

    (The movie is fine. The book is better bc it has more depth. The original story is about psychological distress, told in a medium that allows the reader direct insight into the characters' minds.)
    Yep, you're right.

    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    It seems to me that, if a goal is not only undesirable but also unachievable, there is no reason to pursue it.
    Yep, you're right.

    Spirited Away
    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
    Stuff I've Watched out of *****

    The Last Duel - ***
    Only Murders in the Building: **
    Squid Games: **.5

  13. #588
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    For you. And your life experience.

    Using this word in this way makes it seem like your opinion must be a fact, when it is an opinion. One you are welcome to have.
    Life experience is irrelevant. I don't know anybody like the characters in Neil Labute's films either, but In the Company of Men, Your Friends and Neighbors, and The Shape of Things all strike me as believable and compelling as dramatic narratives (or at least they did in the early 2000s, which was when I last saw them), even though the twist endings of In the Company of Men and The Shape of Things are arguably a lot more far-fetched than anything in Nichols' film. It's hard for me to be very specific about Closer since I haven't seen it in sixteen years, but the characters' behaviour seemed dictated more by the demands of the plot than any internal necessity. In other words, one can feel the gears turning, whereas the far more audacious plot developments of Labute's films seem to emerge naturally from the characters' personalities and the logic of the situation. And if one accepts my premise that the characters in Closer are neither creditable nor interesting (which I readily grant is just my opinion), then it follows logically that the film's project of mainstreaming Labute is a pointless one: Labute did it first and he did it better.
    Just because...
    Julieta (Pedro Almodóvar, 2016) mild
    Flame and Woman (Yoshida Kiju, 1967) mild
    Sunset (László Nemes, 2018) warm

    The last book I read was...
    Tristana by Benito Pérez Galdós


    The (New) World

  14. #589
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    quido8_5 do you use the word "Bro" often? Or just ironically?
    Twitch / Youtube / Film Diary

    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  15. #590
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Life experience is irrelevant.
    But saying the characters are not credible is invalidating them, as you don't/can't associate with them. I do.

    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    ... but the characters' behaviour seemed dictated more by the demands of the plot than any internal necessity. In other words, one can feel the gears turning, whereas the far more audacious plot developments of Labute's films seem to emerge naturally from the characters' personalities and the logic of the situation.
    Who has said anything about Labute except you? Like the writers actors director are sitting around saying "Yeah we're really gonna bring this Labute shit in like a boss!" Maybe they were trying to make their own film?

    And if one accepts my premise that the characters in Closer are neither creditable nor interesting (which I readily grant is just my opinion),
    thats fine

    then it follows logically that the film's project of mainstreaming Labute is a pointless one
    and theres the weird baby doll leap that no one is making

    Labute did it first and he did it better.
    Oh here we go with this shit again...everything has been done before. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried again and it can't have a positive effect on someone.
    Last edited by Skitch; 09-04-2021 at 04:12 PM.

  16. #591
    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    quido8_5 do you use the word "Bro" often? Or just ironically?
    Both. I also grew up with a family of five boys so we use it a whole lot.
    Stuff I've Watched out of *****

    The Last Duel - ***
    Only Murders in the Building: **
    Squid Games: **.5

  17. #592
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    But saying the characters are not credible is invalidating them, as you don't/can't associate with them. I do.

    Who has said anything about Labute except you? Like the writers actors director are sitting around saying "Yeah we're really gonna bring this Labute shit in like a boss!" Maybe they were trying to make their own film?

    thats fine

    and theres the weird baby doll leap that no one is making

    Oh here we go with this shit again...everything has been done before. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried again and it can't have a positive effect on someone.
    There may be people in the world like the characters in Closer but that doesn't mean the characters' behaviour is convincing on the screen. Recognition ("I know people like this") is not the same thing as believability ("I believe that, under these specific circumstances, this character would do that"). As Aristotle puts it in the Poetics, "Things probable though impossible should be preferred to the possible but improbable." Everything that happens in Closer is possible but none of it seemed to me very probable.

    As for the claim that everything has been done before, assuming this is true (and I don't think it is; Labute has cited Restoration comedy as an influence on In the Company of Men but the film's themes are too contemporary to dismiss it as a simple retread), what justification would there be--other than commerce--for people to go to all the trouble of making new movies? It seems like a waste of time and effort.

    Incidentally, while it's conceivable that Nichols and co. weren't thinking of Labute while making the film (although given his extensive work in the theatre, it's hard to believe that Nichols wasn't at least aware of his work), the important thing is that I was thinking of Labute while watching it. Whether coincidental or not, the enormous overlap in subject matter, structure, and style makes a comparison between Closer and Your Friends and Neighbors all but inescapable, and it's not a comparison that favours the former.
    Just because...
    Julieta (Pedro Almodóvar, 2016) mild
    Flame and Woman (Yoshida Kiju, 1967) mild
    Sunset (László Nemes, 2018) warm

    The last book I read was...
    Tristana by Benito Pérez Galdós


    The (New) World

  18. #593
    Kept out of sunlight Gizmo's Avatar
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    Spirited Away
    ESotSM
    *coming soon*

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  19. #594
    These match-ups are inching ever-closer to HUMILIATION territory.

  20. #595
    Evil mind, evil sword. Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    Championship
    Spirited Away vs. Memento

    Losers Bracket
    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs. Wall-E
    Last Five Films I've Seen (Out of 5)

    The Harder They Fall (Samuel, 2021) 4.5
    Bride of Frankenstein (Whale, 1935) 4.5
    Frankenstein (Whale, 1931)(multi) 5
    Last Night In Soho (Wright, 2021) TBA
    The Velvet Underground (Haynes, 2021) 3.5
    Halloween Kills (Green, 2021) 2
    Phantom of the Paradise (De Palma, 1974) 4
    No Time To Die (Fukunaga, 2021) 3.5
    Venom: Let There Be Carnage (Serkis, 2021) 3
    The Great Muppet Caper (Henson, 1981) 5
    The Eyes of Tammy Faye (Showalter, 2021) 4
    Le Cercle Rouge (Melville, 1970) 4.5
    Lamb (Johansson, 2021) 2.5

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  21. #596
    Quote Quoting Idioteque Stalker (view post)
    These match-ups are inching ever-closer to HUMILIATION territory.
    Yeah, I think the way things played out this ended up being some of the easiest choices for me of the whole competition. Still, this has been my favorite madness yet.
    Stuff I've Watched out of *****

    The Last Duel - ***
    Only Murders in the Building: **
    Squid Games: **.5

  22. #597
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    There may be people in the world like the characters in Closer but that doesn't mean the characters' behaviour is convincing on the screen.
    The important thing is that it was to me.*

    Recognition ("I know people like this") is not the same thing as believability ("I believe that, under these specific circumstances, this character would do that"). As Aristotle puts it in the Poetics, "Things probable though impossible should be preferred to the possible but improbable." Everything that happens in Closer is possible but none of it seemed to me very probable.
    Not only probable, but I've seen it, beat for beat.

    As for the claim that everything has been done before, assuming this is true (and I don't think it is; Labute has cited Restoration comedy as an influence on In the Company of Men but the film's themes are too contemporary to dismiss it as a simple retread), what justification would there be--other than commerce--for people to go to all the trouble of making new movies? It seems like a waste of time and effort.
    Because sometimes (not necessarily this time for this deviation of conversation) a story can be told better, or updated for newer thought, or improved upon. Progress.

    Incidentally, while it's conceivable that Nichols and co. weren't thinking of Labute while making the film (although given his extensive work in the theatre, it's hard to believe that Nichols wasn't at least aware of his work), the important thing is that I was thinking of Labute while watching it. Whether coincidental or not, the enormous overlap in subject matter, structure, and style makes a comparison between Closer and Your Friends and Neighbors all but inescapable, and it's not a comparison that favours the former.
    Its seems like you feel like your knowledge and experience are relative to your interaction with certain pieces of art?
    Last edited by Skitch; 09-04-2021 at 08:50 PM.

  23. #598
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    The important thing is that it was to me.*

    Not only probable, but I've seen it, beat for beat.
    I never doubted that you have. It's possible I'm underrating this specific movie (which, again, I haven't seen since its initial release), but as to the broader point, the fact that you've seen similar behaviour in real life doesn't convince me that the film's treatment of said behaviour is believable as fiction--that is, probable within the context of the film's narrative. To return to the apples-and-oranges comparison of Nichols' film with Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, it's impossible (currently) to have unpleasant memories erased through targeted brain damage, but in the context of the film's narrative, it's believable that these characters would opt for such a procedure if it were available to them. Conversely, if my hazy memory of the film is at all reliable, the characters and relationships in Closer all seemed more theoretical than real, even though the characters never do anything impossible.

    Because sometimes (not necessarily this time for this deviation of conversation) a story can be told better, or updated for newer thought, or improved upon. Progress.
    If Closer was intended as an attempt to improve upon Your Friends and Neighbors, then I would argue it failed for the reason stated earlier: the characters' behaviour is less extreme than that of Labute's characters but it's less believable as fiction (or at least I thought so at the time).

    Its seems like you feel like your knowledge and experience are relative to your interaction with certain pieces of art?
    I don't understand the question.
    Just because...
    Julieta (Pedro Almodóvar, 2016) mild
    Flame and Woman (Yoshida Kiju, 1967) mild
    Sunset (László Nemes, 2018) warm

    The last book I read was...
    Tristana by Benito Pérez Galdós


    The (New) World

  24. #599
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    If Closer was intended as an attempt to improve upon Your Friends and Neighbors...
    You are the only one putting that standard on Closer.

    I don't understand the question.
    Rephrase: I feel like you put your experience into play sometimes, and other times ignore the possibility of others experience. Not maybe intentionally, I'm not trying to be a dick, just maybe your experience (relationship or otherwise) isn't the same as other have experienced? So maybe a movie portrayal you can't relate to does accurately portray a real life thing? Whether you buy it or not?

  25. #600
    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    To return to the apples-and-oranges comparison of Nichols' film with Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, it's impossible (currently) to have unpleasant memories erased through targeted brain damage [...]
    Actually it is possible through optogenetics and has been for nearly a decade (https://www.ted.com/talks/steve_rami...ry?language=en). It's not used with humans for ethical reasons, at least for now: https://link.springer.com/article/10...69-020-00377-1. Not super-pertinent to the conversation here, but adds to the relevance of Eternal Sunshine. I never really considered it science fiction, as the technology was theorized about when Kaufman wrote the script. One of the many reasons why I love the film is that it takes something imminently possible and takes it to a natural conclusion.
    Last edited by quido8_5; 09-04-2021 at 10:36 PM.
    Stuff I've Watched out of *****

    The Last Duel - ***
    Only Murders in the Building: **
    Squid Games: **.5

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