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Thread: Match Cut Madness 3: Best of the 00s

  1. #426
    Quote Quoting Idioteque Stalker (view post)
    Who even are you?!




    Only one movie survives. Best not to get too emotionally attached.
    I'm as surprised as you. I just really dig ASM and 25th Hour.
    Last Seen:​
    Us (J. Peele, 2019) ☆
    Archer, S12 (A. Reed, 2021) ☆
    Infinity Train, Book 1: The Perennial Child (O. Dennis, 2019)
    Brooklyn Nine-Nine, S8 (D. Goor/M. Schur, 2021) ☆
    Spielberg (S. Lacy, 2017) ☆
    Central Park, S2a (J. Gad/L. Bouchard/N. Smith, 2021) ☆
    Batman: The Long Halloween, Part 2 (C. Palmer, 2021) ☆
    Central Park, S1 (J. Gad/L. Bouchard/N. Smith, 2020) ☆
    Vivo (K. DeMicco/B. Jeffords, 2021) ☆
    Batman: Gotham Knight (S. Nishimi/F. Higashide/H. Morioka/Y. Aoki/T. Kubooka/Nam J./Y. Kawajiri, 2008) ☆

    First time ☆

  2. #427
    Gonna just ignore the end of that last page. I'm bummed that the Spike Lee movie pack I found back in July didn't have 25th Hour. To the Barnes & Noble!
    Blog!

    I really don't care anymore
    About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
    And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
    And everybody puttin' everybody else down
    And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

  3. #428
    No Country for Old Men vs. Kill Bill Vol. 1 (ouch)
    25th Hour vs. Spirited Away (YAWN)
    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs. Shaun of the Dead
    Mulholland Drive vs. Before Sunset (yawn)
    There Will Be Blood vs. Memento
    Zodiac vs. Children of Men
    A Serious Man vs. Wall-E
    Inglourious Basterds vs. Yi Yi (OUCH)

  4. #429
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Wow, so Before Sunset is even more overrated than even I had imagined.

  5. #430
    Before Sunset is almost perfect.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  6. #431
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    I low key can't stand it.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  7. #432
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    I low key can't stand it.
    I high key couldn't even finish it.

  8. #433
    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    Before Sunset is almost perfect.
    I honestly have little interest in seeing any of the trilogy. Please tell me how it is any different from your average white people meet cute movie.
    Blog!

    I really don't care anymore
    About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
    And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
    And everybody puttin' everybody else down
    And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

  9. #434
    I really shouldn't post while drinking but fuck it I don't care today. Think I'll watch Dogtooth when I get home sounds like it's messed up enough for how I feel right now.
    Blog!

    I really don't care anymore
    About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
    And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
    And everybody puttin' everybody else down
    And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

  10. #435
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting DFA1979 (view post)
    I honestly have little interest in seeing any of the trilogy. Please tell me how it is any different from your average white people meet cute movie.
    Lots more whining.

  11. #436
    Quote Quoting DFA1979 (view post)
    I honestly have little interest in seeing any of the trilogy. Please tell me how it is any different from your average white people meet cute movie.
    The thing is, I love this move completely, but I don't care if you don't want to watch it, or that Skitch can't even finish it. I don't write essays on demand
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  12. #437
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    Lots more whining.
    Not encouraging haha.
    Blog!

    I really don't care anymore
    About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
    And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
    And everybody puttin' everybody else down
    And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

  13. #438
    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    The thing is, I love this move completely, but I don't care if you don't want to watch it, or that Skitch can't even finish it. I don't write essays on demand
    I just asked why I should watch it not asking for an essay or whatever. Also I find this hilarious considering how for years people on this site and the Corrie dogged me for not giving them a full review of a movie I liked. Why am i here again I donno I mean folks have asked me to stay and I'm like why? Why bother? Anyways fuck it.
    Blog!

    I really don't care anymore
    About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
    And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
    And everybody puttin' everybody else down
    And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

  14. #439
    Sorry Idiot I'm glad you did this contest and you set this up only for people to literally spit in your face. You're a good dude.
    Blog!

    I really don't care anymore
    About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
    And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
    And everybody puttin' everybody else down
    And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

  15. #440
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    The thing is, I love this move completely, but I don't care if you don't want to watch it, or that Skitch can't even finish it.
    And you shouldn't care. You do you bro! Lord knows I've got plenty I love that everyone hates.

  16. #441
    Screenwriter
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    To the haters: Baby, you all miss that plane.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  17. #442
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    And you shouldn't care. You do you bro! Lord knows I've got plenty I love that everyone hates.
    Indeed. And I apologize in advance because I will be voting for Before Sunset in every match up except one
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  18. #443
    Producer Yxklyx's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting DFA1979 (view post)
    I really shouldn't post while drinking but fuck it I don't care today. Think I'll watch Dogtooth when I get home sounds like it's messed up enough for how I feel right now.
    Oh yeah, that one's messed up.
    Last Excellent Movie Seen For the Very First Time:
    The Crowd (1928, King Vidor)
    Letterboxd

  19. #444
    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Some things change and some things stay the same. The female characters in Jackson's trilogy are assertive but not in a way that threatens the patriarchy; indeed, insofar as the women in the film are all aligned with the forces of good, their occasional acts of assertiveness serve merely to preserve the status quo. This marks a change from classical Hollywood films where desiring, assertive women are either femme fatales (Double Indemnity) or neurotics (Letter from an Unknown Woman), but there is still a certain ideological continuity: before female assertiveness was a threat to the established order; now it can be reigned in and directed towards socially acceptable ends, at least so long as the women remain resolutely asexual. (Alternatively, in recent comedies like Trainwreck, female sexuality is defined more or less explicitly as a problem that gets solved by shunting the heroine into a monogamous relationship.) Plus ça change, plus c'est la męme chose.

    I doubt Basic Instinct would be much fun if Stone's character were an "example of female empowerment serving as a positive message to women." Indeed, that sounds like the feminist equivalent of socialist realism: noble, uplifting, and unspeakably dull. Conversely, for all their "problematic" aspects, Double Indemnity, Letter from an Unknown Woman, and Basic Instinct are genuinely great movies, whereas The Lord of the Rings films aren't. Good politics don't necessarily make for good aesthetics.

    Moreover, I don't see how the scenes where Stone challenges the authority of the male police officers (which is virtually every scene in which she appears) are "cancelled out" by her character being a psychotic murderer; on the contrary, the achievement of the film in general, and Stone's performance in particular (which is brilliant), is to keep the two sides of her character in constant tension. In other words, Stone quite literally embodies fascination and danger. She isn't any less fascinating for being dangerous, at least for spectators (like me) who are themselves products of the same sexist, homophobic society that produced Verhoeven's film. Inhabitants of a queer-feminist utopia where everyone always thinks correct thoughts may not get the appeal because their ultra-enlightened views on gender make it impossible for them to respond instinctively to Basic Instinct in the same way audiences did in 1992, but then such people don't yet exist.
    The women in LOTR don't "threaten the patriarchy" that much within the narrow context of Middle Earth society (whether they did so in the real world is another question, though), but that's an irrelevant point, since the trilogy is obviously portraying a fantasy world where sexism against women is not shown to be anywhere near as rampant as it is in the real one, either in the medieval times that inspired Tolkien in the first place, or even in 2021 (I mean, Theoden literally proclaims that Eowyn is to rule Rohan in his place if he dies in Return Of The King, which is exactly what happens). Furthermore, LOTR's positive portrayal of such women is a good thing, especially in the context of how previous movies (including Basic Instinct) had typically portrayed female empowerment, which is in the inherently negative manners you admitted, as it tended to be connected to emotional instability or immorality, either of the sexual kind, or the homicidal (with the first often leading to the latter), usually culminating with the woman in question ending up either in jail or dead. In other words, these characters were portrayed as a threat to the patriarchy in order to serve as an implicit warning against women from being assertive or sexually liberated, since it often lead to doom for both them and the men in their orbit, and such characterizations were themselves the product of a patriarchal system (Hollywood) that set up those limits and consequences for female characters in the first place, the same system that primarily valued women for their looks/bodies, where sexual abuse ran rampant (and still does to a certain extent, if the fallout of the Weinstein scandal is anything to go by), and multiple actresses were pressured into having abortions, including Davis & Crawford themselves.

    Anyway, regarding the points about Basic Instinct, while it's always possible to go too far in either direction when it comes to portraying female empowerment, like the way that the relatively mindless "girl power!" sentiments of something Captain Marvel ignores the way that the title character is absorbed into the propaganda of the American military-industrial complex, Basic Instinct still goes too far in the opposite direction by being a genuinely offensive, regressive portrayal of female empowerment, and a stark contrast to the way that the female portrayals in LOTR, Fury Road, and (to counterbalance this with a good Verhoeven movie) Total Recall not only hold up as progressive even today, but are also still endlessly fascinating to analyze, because it's not some either/or choice between movies being either enlightened or interesting; they can (and should) be both, and to act otherwise is nonsense.
    Last edited by StuSmallz; 08-27-2021 at 06:17 AM.

  20. #445
    I'll just limit myself to voting and ignoring the dumb bullshit certain people post from now on.
    Blog!

    I really don't care anymore
    About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
    And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
    And everybody puttin' everybody else down
    And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

  21. #446
    Quote Quoting DFA1979 (view post)
    I'll just limit myself to voting and ignoring the dumb bullshit certain people post from now on.


    Should we finally just try to move this back-and-forth over to the "28 Films Later" thread now, where it would be more on-topic?
    Last edited by StuSmallz; 08-26-2021 at 06:40 AM.

  22. #447
    Super Moderator dreamdead's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting DFA1979 (view post)
    I honestly have little interest in seeing any of the trilogy. Please tell me how it is any different from your average white people meet cute movie.
    Waaaaaaaay back in 2008, I wrote the following for the non-administrative top 50. I stand by pretty much all of it, though some of the NGO talk would probably warrant greater coverage in how the characters struggle to be good liberals...
    Ant-Man and the Wasp - 5
    Hereditary - 7
    Won't You Be My Neighbor? - 7.5
    The Tale - 8

  23. #448
    Quote Quoting StuSmallz (view post)
    The women in LOTR don't "threaten the patriarchy" within the narrow context of Middle Earth society (whether they did so in the real world is another question, though), but that's an irrelevant point, since the trilogy is obviously portraying a fantasy world where sexism against women is not shown to be anywhere near as rampant as it is in the real one, either in the medieval times that inspired Tolkien in the first place, or even in 2021 (I mean, Theoden literally proclaims that Eowyn is to rule Rohan in his place if he dies in Return Of The King, which is exactly what happens). Furthermore, LOTR's positive portrayal of such women is a good thing, especially in the context of how previous movies (including Basic Instinct) had typically portrayed female empowerment, which is in the inherently negative manners you admitted, as it tended to be connected to emotional instability or immorality, either of the sexual kind, or the homicidal (with the first often leading to the latter), usually culminating with the woman in question ending up either in jail or dead. In other words, these characters were portrayed as a threat to the patriarchy in order to serve as an implicit warning against women from being assertive or sexually liberated, since it often lead to doom for both them and the men in their orbit, and such characterizations were themselves the product of a patriarchal system (Hollywood) that set up those limits and consequences for female characters in the first place, the same system that primarily valued women for their looks/bodies, where sexual abuse ran rampant (and still does to a certain extent, if the fallout of the Weinstein scandal is anything to go by), and multiple actresses were pressured into having abortions, including Davis & Crawford themselves.

    Anyway, regarding the points about Basic Instinct, while it's always possible to go too far in either direction when it comes to portraying female empowerment, like the way that the relatively mindless "girl power!" sentiments of something Captain Marvel ignores the way that the title character is absorbed into the propaganda of the American military-industrial complex, Basic Instinct still goes too far in the opposite direction by being a genuinely offensive, regressive portrayal of female empowerment, and a stark contrast to the way that the female portrayals in LOTR, Fury Road, and (to counterbalance this with a good Verhoeven movie) Total Recall not only hold up as progressive even today, but are also still endlessly fascinating to analyze, because it's not some either/or choice between movies being either enlightened or interesting; they can (and should) be both, and to act otherwise is nonsense.
    With regard to The Lord of the Rings, it seems to me that the first question is: how genuinely progressive is its depiction of a world ostensibly less sexist than our own? I would argue not very, since the films' female characters gain assertiveness on the battlefield at the expense of sexual expression. In other words, the efforts of Jackson and his co-writers to imagine a non-sexist fantasy world are constrained by the sexist attitudes of the world in which the films were actually produced and consumed. It's evident that mainstream audiences in the early 2000s readily accepted the assertiveness of the films' female characters on the battlefield to the point that it aroused virtually no comment, but I doubt the same audiences would have as readily accepted them having Dionysian bisexual orgies. (Needless to say, there can be no female liberation without sexual liberation.)

    The second question is: how interesting is the film's depiction of a non-sexist fantasy world, limited though it may be in its omission of female sexuality? Again, I would argue not very since the films' unambiguously affirmative stance towards female empowerment (as distinct from emancipation or liberation) leaves nothing for the spectator to do but nod in agreement: Yes, this is how things ought be but aren't yet. The films' attitude is essentially pious and nothing is more boring in art than piety, since it doesn't allow for contradiction, messiness, tension, ambivalence, or complexity.

    This is, not incidentally, why so much liberal film criticism is not only insufferable but overly simplistic. In characterizing films in binary, either/or terms (progressive/regressive, enlightened/unenlightened, feminist/misogynist), such criticism fails to grapple with the complexity of pop culture as a site of ideological contradiction. To take the example of a classical film in which the heroine dies at the end, Josef von Sternberg's Dishonored has both progressive and conservative elements and much of the film's fascination results from the productive tension between them. Inevitably the prostitute heroine dies (by firing squad, no less), yet the film in no way endorses this, instead regarding her as a sort of martyr and contrasting her genuine (if sexually transgressive) patriotism with the hypocrisy of the male military officers. (Jonathan Rosenbaum has characterized the film as "an antiwar statement that a prostitute can do more for her countryman than a female spy.") Yet the film's attitude towards its heroine is far from straightforward, as evidenced by the famous close-up of her instinctively fixing her lipstick just before she's shot. On the one hand, the heroine/Marlene Dietrich is to be admired for her beauty, while on the other, her exaggerated, slightly campy makeup denotes the lack of an authentic essence. Basic Instinct evidences a similar split attitude towards its heroine, combining fascination and condemnation, although as I've pointed out elsewhere on this forum, she's never punished for her transgressions and the seeming phallic victory of the Michael Douglas character is highly provisional and could be reversed at any moment: if he's still alive at the end of the movie, it's only because Stone wants him alive for now. The contradictions of Sternberg and Verhoeven's films make them a lot more exciting to watch (and re-watch) than the bland liberal pieties of Portrait d'une jeune fille en feu or The Lord of the Rings, neither of which I have the slightest desire to see again.
    Last edited by baby doll; 08-26-2021 at 03:52 PM.
    Just because...
    Julieta (Pedro Almodóvar, 2016) mild
    Flame and Woman (Yoshida Kiju, 1967) mild
    Sunset (László Nemes, 2018) warm

    The last book I read was...
    The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins


    The (New) World

  24. #449
    Quote Quoting StuSmallz (view post)
    Should we finally just try to move this back-and-forth over to the "28 Films Later" thread now, where it would be more on-topic?
    Your convo remains on topic despite LOTR getting voted out. Anything even tangentially related to "best of the 00s" is welcome here. Pretty sure he wasn't referring to you anyway. Feel free to carry on.


    Quote Quoting dreamdead (view post)
    Waaaaaaaay back in 2008, I wrote the following for the non-administrative top 50. I stand by pretty much all of it, though some of the NGO talk would probably warrant greater coverage in how the characters struggle to be good liberals...
    I was more of a lurker back then, but this was and still is a great thread. I suppose we can assume you'll vote BS all the way to the end, unless a seismic shift has occurred...
    Last edited by Idioteque Stalker; 08-26-2021 at 04:36 PM.

  25. #450
    With ~24 hours left to go, we have three nailbiters:

    Mulholland Drive vs. Before Sunset
    There Will Be Blood vs. Memento
    A Serious Man vs. Wall-E

    If you've been thinking about voting and have a preference in these match-ups (or any others), now would be a great time to vote by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

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