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Thread: Match Cut Madness 3: Best of the 00s

  1. #376
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with not voting if you dislike both. I do have a problem with any voting if you haven't seen both.

  2. #377
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    I don't have a problem with not voting if you dislike both. I do have a problem with any voting if you haven't seen both.
    I don't vote if I haven't seen both movies. That's silly.
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    About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
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    And everybody puttin' everybody else down
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  3. #378
    Producer Yxklyx's Avatar
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    I was going to say it should be Mulholland Dr. but the final credits have Mulholland Drive.
    Last Excellent Movie Seen For the Very First Time:
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  4. #379
    Quote Quoting quido8_5 (view post)
    What's the opposite of Sophie's Choice?

    If we're all forced to vote for two films we care about deeply in equal amounts, we also have to vote for things we don't care about in equal amounts.
    Thats the thing though; we don’t
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  5. #380
    Quote Quoting Yxklyx (view post)
    I was going to say it should be Mulholland Dr. but the final credits have Mulholland Drive.
    I can't remember which one it is so I Googled and it said Mulholland Drive is the title. I'll go with that I guess. Also I'm finally viewing Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring and it is fantastic. What a movie.
    Blog!

    I really don't care anymore
    About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
    And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
    And everybody puttin' everybody else down
    And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

  6. #381
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    I do have a problem with any voting if you haven't seen both.
    This is the main thing, and one of the primary ways MC Madness is different than Filmspotting madness. In R1 of their tournament, for instance, The Incredibles won 75% to Yi Yi's 25% -- in ours, it was the opposite. My gut tells me this has a lot to do with people here self-enforcing this rule, rather than simply voting for the movie they've seen.

    In the other tournament, enforcing voting rules is impossible; in ours, it is pointless. Do I want everyone to abstain any time a choice is difficult/boring? No. But is trans or anyone else affecting the supposed integrity of the game by trolling a match-up or two? Also no. Face it, y'all just want him to vote in the hopes he votes for the same movie you voted for.

  7. #382
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    No, I want him to vote because the world political scene is in shambles right now. We need change.

    This is important.
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  8. #383
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    If trans wants to protest the shitty candidates by obtaining or by voting for a third party that can't win, I completely back his decision.

  9. #384
    What matters most is the MC populace trusts in the integrity of the voting process, lest Tenenbaums fanatics attempt an insurrection.

  10. #385
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    MC Bernie bros. Great. Just what we need.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  11. #386
    With fewer than 24 hours left to go, here are the closest match-ups:

    Dogtooth vs. Kill Bill Vol. 1
    25th Hour vs. Almost Famous
    Lost In Translation vs. Shaun of the Dead
    In the Mood for Love vs. Memento
    The Dark Knight vs. A Serious Man

    If you've been thinking about voting and have a preference in these match-ups (or any others), now would be a great time to vote by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

  12. #387
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    To be clear, I wasn't accusing anyone of anything, just saying I felt it was an important rule. I believe in the MC community.

    And I'm once again asking for your money.

  13. #388
    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    Thats the thing though; we don’t
    The royal we. Ya' know, the editorial.

    Quote Quoting Idioteque Stalker (view post)
    Face it, y'all just want him to vote in the hopes he votes for the same movie you voted for.
    Precisely!
    Films out of *****

    I'm Thinking of Ending Things - ***
    Suicide Squad - ***.5
    Still Walking - ***.5

    TV out of *****

    Succession Season 1: ***.5
    The White Lotus: ***
    The Chair: **.5

  14. #389
    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    That the female characters are peripheral to the plot of Jackson's trilogy--at least in comparison with Frodo, his buddy (Sam?), Gandalf, and the skinny little junky dude (whose name I no longer recall)--doesn't pose a problem for analyzing their roles in the films (any role can be analyzed, no matter how small); it's just that, in this case, the analysis is unlikely to turn up anything very interesting. And of course there's no reason why a film begun in the late 1990s and released in the early 2000s should have a conflicted attitude about assertive women, especially when those women are largely asexual. (Cate Blanchett is so ethereal here she scarcely seems to have any corporeal existence whatsoever.) But that just goes to show my point that Jackson's trilogy was behind the culture rather than ahead of it, as Hollywood melodramas of the studio era were just ahead of what American society was willing to accept at the time--or, more precisely, by centring the figure of a transgressive woman, such films negotiated the outer-most limits of socially acceptable behaviour for a society that was rapidly being transformed by industrial capitalism. That's in part what made them exciting for spectators, and it's why they're still exciting today as contemporary attitudes towards women are not much more enlightened than they were in the 1930s. (It's one thing to recognize intellectually that pervasive misogynistic attitudes cost Hillary Clinton votes in the 2016 election and another thing altogether to actually find her likeable.) When Sharon Stone's character in Basic Instinct brazenly flouts social norms ("What are you gonna do, arrest me for smoking?"), the breaking of a taboo is both thrilling as a vicarious release for the spectator's repressed desires and anxiety-producing as it threatens the total breakdown of social order, causing the spectator to react with nervous laughter. When an ethereal elf-woman rescues a hobbit from the forces of darkness, the spectator can only feel relief. In short, The Lord of the Rings movies are fundamentally not sexy.
    While I agree with you that modern attitudes towards women still aren't as enlightened as they should be, you keep contradicting and undermining your own points; you cite the results of the 2016 election as an example of lingering sexism in today's society (an election that happened a decade and a half after the release of Fellowship, no less), but earlier in this same post, you said that there was "no reason" why a 2000's movie should feel conflicted about women, as part of an attempt to dismiss the trilogy's portrayal of the gender as merely reflecting the changes that society had undergone, and in a previous post, you literally wrote that "By the time Jackson made his trilogy, however, attitudes toward women HAD shifted considerably", so... which is it?

    Anyway, as for you contrasting LOTR's overall positive portrayals of women with the more conflicted attitudes of previous movies, the problem with that is the "anxiety" a lot of those films displayed (including some of the examples you specifically mentioned) towards assertive female characters tended to not be part of an overall critical examination of sexism, or even just neutral reflections of where society was at at those points in time with gender relations, but undeniable affirmations of that anxiety. Take Catherine in Basic Instinct, for example; while the moments in that film where she challenges or psychologically cuts down the men are a somewhat intriguing aspect of her character, they get cancelled out by the overall highly regressive nature of her characterization, which makes an unavoidable connection between her assertive personality and her psychotic, murderous behavior, so instead of that example of female empowerment serving as a positive message to women, it instead ends up being yet another negative warning to men to beware of bold/sexy women, because they'll inevitably end up being dangerous psychos (and that's not even delving into certain behind-the-scenes tidbits from that production, like the fact that the infamous "upskirt" moment, which is the only thing that most people still remember from that piece of trash, was apparently filmed without Sharon Stone consenting to having that part of her anatomy showing up onscreen, which adds a whole other layer of problematic to a movie that already had way too much of that anyway).
    Last edited by StuSmallz; 08-23-2021 at 02:49 AM.

  15. #390
    Quote Quoting StuSmallz (view post)
    While I agree with you that modern attitudes towards women still aren't as enlightened as they should be, you keep contradicting and undermining your own points; you cite the results of the 2016 election as an example of lingering sexism in today's society (an election that happened a decade and a half after the release of Fellowship, no less), but earlier in this same post, you said that there was "no reason" why a 2000's movie should feel conflicted about women, as part of an attempt to dismiss the trilogy's portrayal of the gender as merely reflecting the changes that society had undergone, and in a previous post, you literally wrote that "By the time Jackson made his trilogy, however, attitudes toward women HAD shifted considerably", so... which is it?
    Some things change and some things stay the same. The female characters in Jackson's trilogy are assertive but not in a way that threatens the patriarchy; indeed, insofar as the women in the film are all aligned with the forces of good, their occasional acts of assertiveness serve merely to preserve the status quo. This marks a change from classical Hollywood films where desiring, assertive women are either femme fatales (Double Indemnity) or neurotics (Letter from an Unknown Woman), but there is still a certain ideological continuity: before female assertiveness was a threat to the established order; now it can be reigned in and directed towards socially acceptable ends, at least so long as the women remain resolutely asexual. (Alternatively, in recent comedies like Trainwreck, female sexuality is defined more or less explicitly as a problem that gets solved by shunting the heroine into a monogamous relationship.) Plus ça change, plus c'est la męme chose.

    Anyway, as for you contrasting LOTR's overall positive portrayals of women with the more conflicted attitudes of previous movies, the problem with that is the "anxiety" a lot of those films displayed (including some of the examples you specifically mentioned) towards assertive female characters tended to not be part of an overall critical examination of sexism, or even just neutral reflections of where society was at at those points in time with gender relations, but undeniable affirmations of that anxiety. Take Catherine in Basic Instinct, for example; while the moments in that film where she challenges or psychologically cuts down the men are a somewhat intriguing aspect of her character, they get cancelled out by the overall highly regressive nature of her characterization, which makes an unavoidable connection between her assertive personality and her psychotic, murderous behavior, so instead of that example of female empowerment serving as a positive message to women, it instead ends up being yet another negative warning to men to beware of bold/sexy women, because they'll inevitably end up being dangerous psychos (and that's not even delving into certain behind-the-scenes tidbits from that production, like the fact that the infamous "upskirt" moment, which is the only thing that most people still remember from that piece of trash, was apparently filmed without Sharon Stone consenting to having that part of her anatomy showing up onscreen, which adds a whole other layer of problematic to a movie that already had way too much of that anyway).
    I doubt Basic Instinct would be much fun if Stone's character were an "example of female empowerment serving as a positive message to women." Indeed, that sounds like the feminist equivalent of socialist realism: noble, uplifting, and unspeakably dull. Conversely, for all their "problematic" aspects, Double Indemnity, Letter from an Unknown Woman, and Basic Instinct are genuinely great movies, whereas The Lord of the Rings films aren't. Good politics don't necessarily make for good aesthetics.

    Moreover, I don't see how the scenes where Stone challenges the authority of the male police officers (which is virtually every scene in which she appears) are "cancelled out" by her character being a psychotic murderer; on the contrary, the achievement of the film in general, and Stone's performance in particular (which is brilliant), is to keep the two sides of her character in constant tension. In other words, Stone quite literally embodies fascination and danger. She isn't any less fascinating for being dangerous, at least for spectators (like me) who are themselves products of the same sexist, homophobic society that produced Verhoeven's film. Inhabitants of a queer-feminist utopia where everyone always thinks correct thoughts may not get the appeal because their ultra-enlightened views on gender make it impossible for them to respond instinctively to Basic Instinct in the same way audiences did in 1992, but then such people don't yet exist.
    Just because...
    Julieta (Pedro Almodóvar, 2016) mild
    Flame and Woman (Yoshida Kiju, 1967) mild
    Sunset (László Nemes, 2018) warm

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    The (New) World

  16. #391
    Quote Quoting Idioteque Stalker (view post)
    What matters most is the MC populace trusts in the integrity of the voting process, lest Tenenbaums fanatics attempt an insurrection.
    That movie rules but the Anderson I'm the most crazy about is The Life Aquatic. Also I'll keep trying to view the ones I haven't seen yet. Apparently Dogtooth is on Tubi. No way to view 25th Hour so I guess I'll have to see if my local library has it or maybe I'll just buy it this week.
    Blog!

    I really don't care anymore
    About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
    And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
    And everybody puttin' everybody else down
    And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

  17. #392
    Round 2 is now closed. Here are MC's results:

    [
    ]

  18. #393
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Idioteque Stalker (view post)
    Round 2 is now closed. Here are MC's results:

    Before Sunset vs. Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter… and Spring (BLOWOUT)
    You fucking monsters

  19. #394
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    In the Mood for Love not winning is the biggest pisser for me.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  20. #395
    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    In the Mood for Love not winning is the biggest pisser for me.
    Ditto. Dogtooth losing to Kill Bill, Vol. 1 and Y tu mamá también losing to Wall-E also suck. On the other hand, Yi Yi beating The Fellowship of the Rings and A Serious Man beating The Dark Knight were both pleasant surprises.
    Just because...
    Julieta (Pedro Almodóvar, 2016) mild
    Flame and Woman (Yoshida Kiju, 1967) mild
    Sunset (László Nemes, 2018) warm

    The last book I read was...
    The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins


    The (New) World

  21. #396
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    In the Mood for Love may be the sexiest movie I have ever seen. And it doesn't even feature a kiss.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  22. #397
    Voting for the Sweet Sixteen is now open! Vote now by posting in this thread or sending me a PM.

    No Country for Old Men vs. Kill Bill Vol. 1
    25th Hour vs. Spirited Away
    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs. Shaun of the Dead
    Mulholland Drive vs. Before Sunset
    There Will Be Blood vs. Memento
    Zodiac vs. Children of Men
    A Serious Man vs. Wall-E
    Inglourious Basterds vs. Yi Yi



    Underdog Watch!

    -- After notable upsets over The Royal Tenenbaums and Almost Famous, 25th Hour has now outperformed Spike Lee's 90s contestant, Malcolm X. The next Spike Lee joint to live up to? 80s champion Do the Right Thing. And it'll be hell straight away as 25th Hour matches up with Madness mainstay Hayao Miyazaki's beloved Spirited Away, which (alongside Wall-E) hopes to tie the record for the longest-lasting animated film in MC Madness history.

    -- Yi Yi: The impossible-to-translate phrase on MC's lips that has the normies asking, "Wait, what beat Lord of the Rings?" After two titanic upsets over The Incredibles and The Fellowship of the Ring, one wonders just how far Edward Yang's swan song can go. No live-action non-English language film has advanced past the Sweet Sixteen (though Ran, Vagabond, and Three Colors: Red came close), and after seven such films fell in Round 2 it is 90s runner-up Quentin Tarantino who stands between Yi Yi and the record books.

    -- After a touch-and-go victory over Unbreakable, A Serious Man sent a message with its upset of 1 seed The Dark Knight. With Christopher Nolan losing two movies in Round 2, the Coens and Quentin Tarantino are now the the only filmmakers left with multiple movies in the tournament -- and they match up in the Sweet Sixteen!


    Which movies will advance to the Elite Eight? Find out when voting closes in four days!
    Last edited by Idioteque Stalker; 08-23-2021 at 10:24 PM.

  23. #398
    No Country for Old Men vs. Kill Bill Vol. 1 - are you kidding me? Pass
    25th Hour vs. Spirited Away
    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs. Shaun of the Dead - most lop-sided contest ever
    Mulholland Drive vs. Before Sunset
    There Will Be Blood vs. Memento - In the Mood for Love should be here, you heathens
    Zodiac vs. Children of Men
    A Serious Man vs. Wall-E
    Inglourious Basterds vs. Yi Yi
    Last edited by transmogrifier; 08-23-2021 at 10:28 PM.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  24. #399
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    No Country for Old Men vs. Kill Bill Vol. 1
    25th Hour vs. Spirited Away
    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs. Shaun of the Dead
    Mulholland Drive vs. Before Sunset
    There Will Be Blood vs. Memento
    Zodiac vs. Children of Men
    A Serious Man vs. Wall-E
    Inglourious Basterds vs. Yi Yi

    Nosferatu (1922) - ** 1/2
    Malignant - ** 1/2
    Titane - *** 1/2


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  25. #400
    Kept out of sunlight Gizmo's Avatar
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    No Country for Old Men vs. Kill Bill Vol. 1
    25th Hour vs. Spirited Away
    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs. Shaun of the Dead
    Mulholland Drive vs. Before Sunset
    There Will Be Blood vs. Memento
    Zodiac vs. Children of Men
    A Serious Man vs. Wall-E
    Inglourious Basterds vs. Yi Yi
    *coming soon*

    Top 100

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