The Filmspotting Madness Thread, In Which We All Become Abhorrent Monsters

[Spun Lepton]

I voted.

That said, I still judge them for it.

Because judging people based on their film tastes is such a good look for you.

[transmogrifier]

When it comes to superhero movies, on the other hand, I'm completely mystified. You would think there must be something to them if so many people love them so much, but the ones I've seen have been completely empty and their fans have been unable to muster any good arguments on their behalf.

Many people seem to enjoy tracking all of the connections between individual movies ("Ooh, that line by Iron Man in [Movie N] preshadows [random action X] in [Movie N+3]), seeing characters from different properties teaming up on screen, and predicting future plots (in the latter case, it often seems as if the current Movie N is treated like an extended trailer for the properties to come, fueling anticipation for the next trailer).

[transmogrifier]

I voted.



Because judging people based on their film tastes is such a good look for you.

The ironic thing is, I think a lot of people WANT to be judged on their taste in film (hell, I'm not immune to that). It's just, they get all huffy if the judgement is not positive.

[Idioteque Stalker]

The ironic thing is, I think a lot of people WANT to be judged on their taste in film (hell, I'm not immune to that). It's just, they get all huffy if the judgement is not positive.

Same. I assume this about everyone, and not only in regards to film. Maybe "judged" is a strong word to apply to all situations, but everyone likes a compliment, and even in certain cases some honest if unflattering feedback ('cause that at least shows one is paying attention).

[Spun Lepton]

I'm being the aggressor right now, which I do not like. I'll back off now. Sorry, baby doll.

[baby doll]

Many people seem to enjoy tracking all of the connections between individual movies ("Ooh, that line by Iron Man in [Movie N] preshadows [random action X] in [Movie N+3]), seeing characters from different properties teaming up on screen, and predicting future plots (in the latter case, it often seems as if the current Movie N is treated like an extended trailer for the properties to come, fueling anticipation for the next trailer).

This is exactly what I don't understand about extended cinematic universes (and a fair amount of "prestige" television): you have to invest all this time and effort studying the ins and outs of a complicated mythology, yet at the end of the day, this Talmudic complexity doesn't make the story any more involving, emotional, or satisfying. Often it's just a smokescreen designed to hide the fact that the story is a trash heap of clichés. A forties B-movie like The Seventh Victim packs more atmosphere and character into seventy minutes than there is in the whole MCU, and it's more entertaining and better directed to boot.

[baby doll]

I'm being the aggressor right now, which I do not like. I'll back off now. Sorry, baby doll.

No worries. Just to clarify, when I say I judge people for what they watch, I'm basing my judgement not only on the range of films they watch (do they watch foreign and experimental films or do they only watch recent Hollywood films) but also their reasoning for liking and disliking certain movies. Mike D'Angelo watches a lot of foreign movies, but in his writing, he strikes me as having a fairly rigid conception of what cinema can and should be and demonstrates little curiosity about other kinds of movies (including nearly all experimental films).

[Peng]

Matches with unbolded films are where I haven't watched one or both films.

Raging Bull vs. Ordinary People
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade vs. Field of Dreams
Blue Velvet vs. A Nightmare On Elm Street
The Thing vs. Plains, Trains, and Automobiles
E.T. vs. Moonstruck
This Is Spinal Tap vs. The Elephant Man
Amadeus vs. Top Gun
When Harry Met Sally vs. Brazil
The Shining vs. Gremlins
Fanny and Alexander vs. A Fish Called Wanda
Ferris Bueller's Day Off vs. The Big Chill
The Terminator vs. Heathers
Blade Runner vs. The Killer
Stop Making Sense vs. Evil Dead 2
Die Hard vs. Who Framed Roger Rabbit
Raising Arizona vs. Vagabond
Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Airplane!
Crimes and Misdemeanors vs. Cinema Paradiso
Full Metal Jacket vs. Dirty Dancing
Aliens vs. Manhunter
Back to the Future vs. Drugstore Cowboy
Ran vs. Fast Times at Ridgemont High
The Princess Bride vs. The Untouchables
Grave of the Fireflies vs. Beetlejuice
Do the Right Thing vs. Wall Street
The Right Stuff vs. The Thin Blue Line
Ghostbusters vs. The Fly
Dead Poets Society vs. Midnight Run
The Empire Strikes Back vs. The Sacrifice
Broadcast News vs. The King of Comedy
My Neighbor Totoro vs. Sex, Lies, and Videotape
Paris, Texas vs. Blood Simple

[Spun Lepton]

No worries. Just to clarify, when I say I judge people for what they watch, I'm basing my judgement not only on the range of films they watch (do they watch foreign and experimental films or do they only watch recent Hollywood films) but also their reasoning for liking and disliking certain movies. Mike D'Angelo watches a lot of foreign movies, but in his writing, he strikes me as having a fairly rigid conception of what cinema can and should be and demonstrates little curiosity about other kinds of movies (including nearly all experimental films).

I don't imagine you judging an EMT or an ER doctor for loving Harry Potter or Star Wars if cinema isn't a priority in their lives.

[megladon8]

[Skitch]

he strikes me as having a fairly rigid conception of what cinema can and should be

I feel this way about you. Throw off your shackles. Cinema can be anything and who gives a fuck what anybody likes.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Y'all, the thread title was meant to be tongue in cheek... which is why this ongoing Princess Bride disrespect will not stand!

[baby doll]

I feel this way about you. Throw off your shackles. Cinema can be anything and who gives a fuck what anybody likes.

Well, I don't know if it can be anything, but I would say that my approach differs from D'Angelo's insofar as I try to take what Roger Ebert called a generic approach to film criticism: I try to figure out what a film wants to achieve, how well it does it, and what the spectator hopes to get out of it. So when I say Star Wars isn't a great film, it's not because I think fantasy films categorically can't be great cinema; I just don't think Star Wars is a great example of fantasy filmmaking. On the other hand, I find that a lot of D'Angelo's reviews boil down to: "This sort of thing isn't for me." For example, in his review of Rivette's Out 1 (a film I haven't seen, by the way), he complains that the first three episodes mainly consist of theatrical improv sessions without showing the slightest curiosity about what functions these scenes are supposed to serve. Even without having seen the film, it's evident from D'Angelo's review that the film is intentionally contrasting documentary and fictional materials, but D'Angelo apparently doesn't see that or care. In other words, he doesn't criticize the film because the improv sessions are handled poorly or don't serve a purpose in the film's overall structure; he simply doesn't like improv, full stop. Even when he's funny, D'Angelo's not a critic whose work enhances one's understanding of the film under consideration.

[baby doll]

I don't imagine you judging an EMT or an ER doctor for loving Harry Potter or Star Wars if cinema isn't a priority in their lives.

No one escapes my judgement.

Of course, if the EMT or ER doctor had a good reason for liking for liking Harry Potter and Star Wars and could articulate it, I would judge them more favourably than someone who likes the same movies I do but does so for superficial reasons (i.e., liking a film for what it's about rather than how it's about it).

[Idioteque Stalker]

Mike D'Angelo watches a lot of foreign movies, but in his writing, he strikes me as having a fairly rigid conception of what cinema can and should be and demonstrates little curiosity about other kinds of movies (including nearly all experimental films).

This is interesting. To me, Mike reads more like a person who has clearly defined taste/preferences than a person who lacks curiosity. (I am somewhat curious about western animation but historically find more enjoyment in anime, and I have no reason to pretend otherwise.) I don't always agree with him, but I am often interested in what he has to say because it usually seems like an honest, well-considered opinion. Then I go elsewhere for experimental film analysis.

EDIT:

In other words, he doesn't criticize the film because the improv sessions are handled poorly or don't serve a purpose in the film's overall structure; he simply doesn't like improv, full stop.

I appreciate the candor in this regard. To me it's worth knowing if the review I'm reading is written by someone who doesn't usually like musicals, detective movies, MCU movies, etc. Or even if it's the first silent film they've seen, or the first anime, and so on.

[baby doll]

I am somewhat curious about western animation but historically find more enjoyment in anime, and I have no reason to pretend otherwise.

Of course, I never said that we should assume, a priori, that creativity is equally distributed across all genres, periods, and national cinemas--only that one shouldn't criticize oranges for not being apples.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Of course, I never said that we should assume, a priori, that creativity is equally distributed across all genres, periods, and national cinemas--only that one shouldn't criticize oranges for not being apples.

Your point is well taken, but it should be noted that, while Mike does criticize Out 1 for being "what it is"/improv/oranges, in this particular case it actually is a movie/apples, and so I can understand where he's coming from. Now if he went to an improv show and complained about it being improv, that would be another thing.

[Mal]

Raging Bull vs. Ordinary People
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade vs. Field of Dreams (N/A)
Blue Velvet vs. A Nightmare On Elm Street
The Thing vs. Plains, Trains, and Automobiles (N/A)
E.T. vs. Moonstruck
This Is Spinal Tap vs. The Elephant Man
Amadeus vs. Top Gun
When Harry Met Sally vs. Brazil (N/A)
The Shining vs. Gremlins
Fanny and Alexander vs. A Fish Called Wanda
Ferris Bueller's Day Off vs. The Big Chill (N/A)
The Terminator vs. Heathers
Blade Runner vs. The Killer (N/A)
Stop Making Sense vs. Evil Dead 2
Die Hard vs. Who Framed Roger Rabbit
Raising Arizona vs. Vagabond
Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Airplane!
Crimes and Misdemeanors vs. Cinema Paradiso
Full Metal Jacket vs. Dirty Dancing (N/A)
Aliens vs. Manhunter
Back to the Future vs. Drugstore Cowboy (N/A)
Ran vs. Fast Times at Ridgemont High (N/A)
The Princess Bride vs. The Untouchables
Grave of the Fireflies vs. Beetlejuice
Do the Right Thing vs. Wall Street
The Right Stuff vs. The Thin Blue Line (N/A)
Ghostbusters vs. The Fly
Dead Poets Society vs. Midnight Run (N/A)
The Empire Strikes Back vs. The Sacrifice (N/A)
Broadcast News vs. The King of Comedy
My Neighbor Totoro vs. Sex, Lies, and Videotape
Paris, Texas vs. Blood Simple

[Idioteque Stalker]

Round One voting is closed on Filmspotting's website. Winners in bold. Feel free to continue to post your votes in this thread!

[

Show Spoiler

Raging Bull vs. Ordinary People
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade vs. Field of Dreams
Blue Velvet vs. A Nightmare On Elm Street
The Thing vs. Plains, Trains, and Automobiles
E.T. vs. Moonstruck
This Is Spinal Tap vs. The Elephant Man
Amadeus vs. Top Gun
When Harry Met Sally vs. Brazil
The Shining vs. Gremlins
Fanny and Alexander vs. A Fish Called Wanda
Ferris Bueller's Day Off vs. The Big Chill
The Terminator vs. Heathers
Blade Runner vs. The Killer (BLOWOUT OF THE WEEK)
Stop Making Sense vs. Evil Dead 2
Die Hard vs. Who Framed Roger Rabbit
Raising Arizona vs. Vagabond
Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Airplane!
Crimes and Misdemeanors vs. Cinema Paradiso (NAIL-BITER OF THE WEEK)
Full Metal Jacket vs. Dirty Dancing
Aliens vs. Manhunter
Back to the Future vs. Drugstore Cowboy
Ran vs. Fast Times at Ridgemont High
The Princess Bride vs. The Untouchables
Grave of the Fireflies vs. Beetlejuice
Do the Right Thing vs. Wall Street
The Right Stuff vs. The Thin Blue Line
Ghostbusters vs. The Fly
Dead Poets Society vs. Midnight Run
The Empire Strikes Back vs. The Sacrifice
Broadcast News vs. The King of Comedy
My Neighbor Totoro vs. Sex, Lies, and Videotape
Paris, Texas vs. Blood Simple

]

[Dukefrukem]

This is exactly what I don't understand about extended cinematic universes (and a fair amount of "prestige" television): you have to invest all this time and effort studying the ins and outs of a complicated mythology, yet at the end of the day, this Talmudic complexity doesn't make the story any more involving, emotional, or satisfying. Often it's just a smokescreen designed to hide the fact that the story is a trash heap of clichés. A forties B-movie like The Seventh Victim packs more atmosphere and character into seventy minutes than there is in the whole MCU, and it's more entertaining and better directed to boot.

If you hadn't included this one word I would agree. Except the complexity does make it more emotional.

[Idioteque Stalker]

-- A message for those of you who haven't yet voted in this thread --

If you have a preference for either film in the following match-ups:

E.T. vs. Moonstruck
Blade Runner vs. The Killer
Crimes and Misdemeanors vs. Cinema Paradiso
Ran vs. Fast Times at Ridgemont High
The Princess Bride vs. The Untouchables

... then post your vote(s)! In a purely hypothetical alternate universe where I have tallied the Match Cut votes, these match-ups are currently tied. MC is currently diverting from the Filmspotting results in some key areas which could really shake things up down the road. (In the event of a MC tie, the tie-breaker will go to the Filmspotting winner -- but let's pave our own way!)

I will count round one MC votes for another 48 hours.

[Dukefrukem]

There's 27 films in the first round I have not seen. Should I make a tournament styled voting thread to determine the order I should view them?

[megladon8]

E.T. vs. Moonstruck
Blade Runner vs. The Killer
Crimes and Misdemeanors vs. Cinema Paradiso
Ran vs. Fast Times at Ridgemont High
The Princess Bride vs. The Untouchables

[Idioteque Stalker]

There's 27 films in the first round I have not seen. Should I make a tournament styled voting thread to determine the order I should view them?

I can't believe you gave me a blu-ray of The Right Stuff before watching it yourself.

[Dukefrukem]

I can't believe you gave me a blu-ray of The Right Stuff before watching it yourself.

lol. It was an 'everything must go' firesale.