The Filmspotting Madness Thread, In Which We All Become Abhorrent Monsters

[transmogrifier]

No, there is something wrong with that. Nostalgia isn't a neutral emotion with no political implications. Even at its most harmless, nostalgia is inherently conservative and infantile. There's no aesthetic argument that one can make for Star Wars and its sequels as great filmmaking (they're diverting and click along at a good pace but they're not even half as pleasurable to watch as the Hawks and Kurosawa films that Lucas lifted all of his best ideas from), so the fact that adults still watch these films is explicable only as a shell-shocked reaction to the horrors of late capitalism that manifests itself as the desire to escape into a world of fantasy. In other words, the films--which were already nostalgic at the time of their release in their evocations of Saturday morning serials--are like security blankets for adults who are unable to cope with a horrific reality but feel helpless to change it. (Disney+ has displaced religion as the opiate of the masses.) It's not a huge leap from longing to return to one's childhood to longing to return to an idealized past before political correctness "ruined" everything.

I was meaning there is nothing wrong with making a list "Best 80s Movies We Loved as Kids." It's just a list, who cares?

Just like, if someone exclusively loves Marvel movies, Harry Potter, whatever, who cares? What bugs me is those cineastes who get all defensive over criticism of it, like when Scorsese offers his opinion and suddenly there is a crowd of screeching from sensitive film geeks who cannot handle someone not loving what they love. That's what is killing film criticism - it has become less of an analysis of film grammar, social context etc. and more of an excuse to signal your tastes to others, and any criticism is taken as a personal one. Hell, one poster on here left the site because (in part, I assume - I can't have been the only reason) I wasn't sufficiently effusive about [REDACTED] (or more likely, I should have just remained quiet to preserve a safe space for the film? IDK). I have never ever cared if someone dislikes a film I love. Why would you?

[baby doll]

I was meaning there is nothing wrong with making a list "Best 80s Movies We Loved as Kids." It's just a list, who cares?

Just like, if someone exclusively loves Marvel movies, Harry Potter, whatever, who cares?

On a certain level, I don't care what other people watch, read, listen to, etc., because it doesn't affect me. That said, I still judge them for it. There's nothing wrong with adults watching films and reading books intended for children if they're good films and good books. Dickens wrote for a wide general readership which included children, but that doesn't make Great Expectations any less of a great novel than the most abstruse late works of Henry James. But Dickens could write. If you read his books as a child and returned to them as an adult, you would find new things to appreciate in them both in terms of Dickens' craftsmanship as a writer and his moral seriousness. The thing with Marvel and Harry Potter (and Star Wars) is that no one I'm aware of has made a case for them as great filmmaking or great writing. I haven't read the Harry Potter books but the first three films were at least entertaining--not so entertaining that I wanted to see more of them but passable. When it comes to superhero movies, on the other hand, I'm completely mystified. You would think there must be something to them if so many people love them so much, but the ones I've seen have been completely empty and their fans have been unable to muster any good arguments on their behalf. Louis Feuillade's Judex and Georges Franju's remake are about a caped crimefighter who hangs out in a cave, but Feuillade and Franju knew how to tell a story, stage a shot for the camera, and work with actors. Jon Favreau not so much.

[Spun Lepton]

I voted.

That said, I still judge them for it.

Because judging people based on their film tastes is such a good look for you.

[transmogrifier]

I voted.



Because judging people based on their film tastes is such a good look for you.

The ironic thing is, I think a lot of people WANT to be judged on their taste in film (hell, I'm not immune to that). It's just, they get all huffy if the judgement is not positive.

[Idioteque Stalker]

The ironic thing is, I think a lot of people WANT to be judged on their taste in film (hell, I'm not immune to that). It's just, they get all huffy if the judgement is not positive.

Same. I assume this about everyone, and not only in regards to film. Maybe "judged" is a strong word to apply to all situations, but everyone likes a compliment, and even in certain cases some honest if unflattering feedback ('cause that at least shows one is paying attention).

[Spun Lepton]

I'm being the aggressor right now, which I do not like. I'll back off now. Sorry, baby doll.

[baby doll]

I'm being the aggressor right now, which I do not like. I'll back off now. Sorry, baby doll.

No worries. Just to clarify, when I say I judge people for what they watch, I'm basing my judgement not only on the range of films they watch (do they watch foreign and experimental films or do they only watch recent Hollywood films) but also their reasoning for liking and disliking certain movies. Mike D'Angelo watches a lot of foreign movies, but in his writing, he strikes me as having a fairly rigid conception of what cinema can and should be and demonstrates little curiosity about other kinds of movies (including nearly all experimental films).

[transmogrifier]

When it comes to superhero movies, on the other hand, I'm completely mystified. You would think there must be something to them if so many people love them so much, but the ones I've seen have been completely empty and their fans have been unable to muster any good arguments on their behalf.

Many people seem to enjoy tracking all of the connections between individual movies ("Ooh, that line by Iron Man in [Movie N] preshadows [random action X] in [Movie N+3]), seeing characters from different properties teaming up on screen, and predicting future plots (in the latter case, it often seems as if the current Movie N is treated like an extended trailer for the properties to come, fueling anticipation for the next trailer).

[baby doll]

Many people seem to enjoy tracking all of the connections between individual movies ("Ooh, that line by Iron Man in [Movie N] preshadows [random action X] in [Movie N+3]), seeing characters from different properties teaming up on screen, and predicting future plots (in the latter case, it often seems as if the current Movie N is treated like an extended trailer for the properties to come, fueling anticipation for the next trailer).

This is exactly what I don't understand about extended cinematic universes (and a fair amount of "prestige" television): you have to invest all this time and effort studying the ins and outs of a complicated mythology, yet at the end of the day, this Talmudic complexity doesn't make the story any more involving, emotional, or satisfying. Often it's just a smokescreen designed to hide the fact that the story is a trash heap of clichés. A forties B-movie like The Seventh Victim packs more atmosphere and character into seventy minutes than there is in the whole MCU, and it's more entertaining and better directed to boot.

[Dukefrukem]

This is exactly what I don't understand about extended cinematic universes (and a fair amount of "prestige" television): you have to invest all this time and effort studying the ins and outs of a complicated mythology, yet at the end of the day, this Talmudic complexity doesn't make the story any more involving, emotional, or satisfying. Often it's just a smokescreen designed to hide the fact that the story is a trash heap of clichés. A forties B-movie like The Seventh Victim packs more atmosphere and character into seventy minutes than there is in the whole MCU, and it's more entertaining and better directed to boot.

If you hadn't included this one word I would agree. Except the complexity does make it more emotional.

[baby doll]

If you hadn't included this one word I would agree. Except the complexity does make it more emotional.

How so?

[Idioteque Stalker]

DAMN SKITCH! 100% completion. I figured E would reign supreme having to abstain from only three match-ups, but you win the 80s.

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Show Spoiler

In case you missed my easy-to-miss rules several pages back, only vote in match-ups where you have seen both films. Not that I would ever doubt your status as supreme ruler.

]

[Dukefrukem]

How so?

I suppose it's arguably less of complexity characteristic and more about the length of screen time for the characters. Screen time that wouldn't necessarily be possible in a 2 hour runtime, where as they pop up in different areas that add to their decisions and struggles. Tony Stark seeing this snip of his father, and then meeting him 10 real life years later. I'm a sucker for father/son subplots so maybe this was just me, but there's a benefit to having this kind of flexibility.

I'm more accepting that these films are not really films anymore. Its just one long mini-series.