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Thread: The Filmspotting Madness Thread, In Which We All Become Abhorrent Monsters

  1. #76
    Quote Quoting Idioteque Stalker (view post)
    And with two votes in a row for The Terminator, might Baby Doll be revealing himself as a deeply-closeted Arnie fanboy?
    I think I've been pretty vocal on this forum about my admiration for The Terminator (which I continue to regard as James Cameron's best film by a wide margin), and I might like Total Recall even better. I've also been meaning to revisit Predator, which I haven't seen since middle school.

    Moreover, I really, really, really dislike both Heathers and Ferris Bueller's Day Off.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  2. #77
    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    No, there is something wrong with that. Nostalgia isn't a neutral emotion with no political implications. Even at its most harmless, nostalgia is inherently conservative and infantile. There's no aesthetic argument that one can make for Star Wars and its sequels as great filmmaking
    Of course you can, silly. In fact, I'll do it right now, using Empire as a case study...

    *clears throat*

    The Empire Strikes Back sheds the more static camerawork, Kurosawa-style wipes, and Ford-ian landscape shots of Lucas's direction on A New Hope in favor of a more distinctive, less obviously "inspired by ___" style, utilizing grander, more dynamic/kinetic cinematography...



    ...unsettling slow motion that creates the effect of a waking nightmare...



    ...and higher-contrast photography with a greater emphasis on color to make certain vital visual elements pop out more...



    ...in order to create a much more unique and accomplished overall aesthetic, one that serves to make the story of the film truly come alive as a result.

    See? : D
    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    I think I've been pretty vocal on this forum about my admiration for The Terminator (which I continue to regard as James Cameron's best film by a wide margin), and I might like Total Recall even better. I've also been meaning to revisit Predator, which I haven't seen since middle school.

    Moreover, I really, really, really dislike both Heathers and Ferris Bueller's Day Off.
    Yeah; I mean, T2 is still a great movie in its own right for me, and almost as good as the original, but it still has a teenage Eddie Furlong in it (ugh), and tries too hard to turn its T-800 into just another version of "Arnie" in its second half, complete with badass one-liners, delivered with a big smirk on his face. So for me, there's just no beating the darker tone of the original, with the Terminator as the stone-cold killer he should've remained as, so it has to be my favorite of the series (well, at least of the ones I've seen, which are the first three; not really expecting the later ones to overtake it considering what I've heard about them, though...).
    Last edited by StuSmallz; 03-04-2021 at 06:01 AM.

  3. #78
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    I think I've been pretty vocal on this forum about my admiration for The Terminator (which I continue to regard as James Cameron's best film by a wide margin), and I might like Total Recall even better. I've also been meaning to revisit Predator, which I haven't seen since middle school.

    Moreover, I really, really, really dislike both Heathers and Ferris Bueller's Day Off.
    This post surprised me 3 times.

    The only question I have is: Why the dislike of "Heathers"?

    Quote Quoting StuSmallz (view post)
    ...and higher-contrast photography with a greater emphasis on color to make certain vital visual elements pop out more...
    That isn't great filmmaking. It's just filmmaking.

  4. #79
    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    That isn't great filmmaking. It's just filmmaking.
    You could literally dismiss every aesthetic technique ever used by any filmmaker by posting that, but, that wouldn't be great posting... it would just be posting.

  5. #80
    Quote Quoting StuSmallz (view post)
    Of course you can, silly. In fact, I'll do it right now, using Empire as a case study...

    *clears throat*

    The Empire Strikes Back sheds the more static camerawork, Kurosawa-style wipes, and Ford-ian landscape shots of Lucas's direction on A New Hope in favor of a more distinctive, less obviously "inspired by ___" style, utilizing grander, more dynamic/kinetic cinematography...



    ...unsettling slow motion that creates the effect of a waking nightmare...



    ...and higher-contrast photography with a greater emphasis on color to make certain vital visual elements pop out more...



    ...in order to create a much more unique and accomplished overall aesthetic, one that serves to make the story of the film truly come alive as a result.

    See? :
    Couldn't one make identical claims for a great many, if not most, contemporary Hollywood blockbusters? Using colour to highlight significant objects in the mise en scène, and slow motion for dramatic actions, are routine technical choices. And given that Lucas and co. had much more money at their disposal on The Empire Strikes Back than they did on the first film, it's to be expected that the sequel would have a grander scale in terms of its production design and a more mobile camera style--although calling the film's style "dynamic" is probably pushing it. Neither the pictures you've provided nor the clip demonstrate much imagination in terms of staging or framing--just a lot of shallow, centred compositions with lots of empty space on the sides so nothing important gets lost when the film is panned and scanned for television. Lawrence Kasdan is certainly a competent professional filmmaker but that doesn't make him Orson Welles.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  6. #81
    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    This post surprised me 3 times.

    The only question I have is: Why the dislike of "Heathers"?
    I haven't seen it in a decade so I'm a bit hazy on the details, but if memory serves, I didn't believe in or care about any of the characters, I didn't the jokes funny, and it had a cheap, gaudy look to it.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  7. #82
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    I had no idea that baby doll loves Terminator and Total Recall.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  8. #83
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    Raging Bull vs. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
    Blue Velvet vs. The Thing
    E.T. vs. This Is Spinal Tap
    Amadeus vs. When Harry Met Sally
    The Shining vs. A Fish Called Wanda
    Ferris Bueller’s Day Off vs. The Terminator
    Blade Runner vs. Stop Making Sense
    Die Hard vs. Vagabond
    Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Cinema Paradiso
    Full Metal Jacket vs. Aliens
    Back to the Future vs. Ran
    The Princess Bride vs. Beetlejuice
    Do the Right Thing vs. The Right Stuff
    The Fly vs. Dead Poets Society
    The Empire Strikes Back vs. The King of Comedy
    My Neighbor Totoro vs. Paris, Texas
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  9. #84
    Quote Quoting StuSmallz (view post)
    You could literally dismiss every aesthetic technique ever used by any filmmaker by posting that, but, that wouldn't be great posting... it would just be posting.
    []

  10. #85
    I'm impressed Stu/Irish/anyone can break down the greatness of Empire. I've seen it so many times, from such a young age, to articulate anything about the craft seems nearly impossible.

  11. #86
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    There are some pretty cool videos on YouTube that go in depth into the OT (non special editions) and why they are incredible films from both visual and storytelling views.

    I find it difficult to accept the claim that adults who love those movies do so out of nothing but nostalgia. Shouldn't there be the same level of adoration for Battlestar Galactica, Battle Beyond the Stars, and Krull?

    There was something objectively special about those movies, even beyond their technical wizardry. The cast is perfect, the visuals in all three films remain astounding to this day and have yet to be topped by anything else in the series.

    I know I'm not saying anything revelatory here. Just throwing in my two cents that I think the nostalgia argument is seriously selling them short.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  12. #87
    Raging Bull vs. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
    Blue Velvet vs. The Thing
    E.T. vs. This Is Spinal Tap
    Amadeus vs. When Harry Met Sally
    The Shining vs. A Fish Called Wanda
    Ferris Bueller’s Day Off vs. The Terminator
    Blade Runner vs. Stop Making Sense
    Die Hard vs. Vagabond (haven't seen Vagabond)
    Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Cinema Paradiso
    Full Metal Jacket vs. Aliens
    Back to the Future vs. Ran
    The Princess Bride vs. Beetlejuice
    Do the Right Thing vs. The Right Stuff
    The Fly vs. Dead Poets Society (haven't seen either)
    The Empire Strikes Back vs. The King of Comedy
    My Neighbor Totoro vs. Paris, Texas

  13. #88
    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    I had no idea that baby doll loves Terminator and Total Recall.
    Well, who doesn't?
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  14. #89
    U ZU MA KI Spun Lepton's Avatar
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    Total Recall is my favorite Arnold movie.
    My YouTube Channel: Grim Street Grindhouse
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  15. #90
    I met someone once who said they didn't like Total Recall. Shocking, I know. And this was even before the shitty remake had a chance to soil the original's reputation.

  16. #91
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    I worked with a guy at Lowe's who hated potatoes. In any form. Mashed, baked, French fries, potato chips. Hated them.

    Now THAT is weird.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  17. #92
    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    There are some pretty cool videos on YouTube that go in depth into the OT (non special editions) and why they are incredible films from both visual and storytelling views.

    I find it difficult to accept the claim that adults who love those movies do so out of nothing but nostalgia. Shouldn't there be the same level of adoration for Battlestar Galactica, Battle Beyond the Stars, and Krull?

    There was something objectively special about those movies, even beyond their technical wizardry. The cast is perfect, the visuals in all three films remain astounding to this day and have yet to be topped by anything else in the series.

    I know I'm not saying anything revelatory here. Just throwing in my two cents that I think the nostalgia argument is seriously selling them short.
    Although I can't claim to be very well versed in the critical literature on Star Wars (to say nothing of what goes on on YouTube), the only semi-plausible defence of the film I've come across is in Julie Turnoc's book Plastic Reality, in which she leans heavily on Lucas' background in the San Francisco experimental film scene of the late 1960s, which also produced Jordan Belson and Pat O'Neill. Turnoc quotes Lucas as saying in an interview:

    I come from experimental cinema; it's my speciality. [...] My friendship and association with Coppola compelled me to write. His speciality is "literature," traditional writing. He studied theater, text; he's a lot more oriented towards "play writing" than I am.
    Turnoc argues that audiences and reviewers of the 1970s experienced Star Wars (and other films by the Movie Brat generation) as a radically new kind of cinema, which demoted narrative to the status of but one "area of potential attraction" in a visceral audio-visual experience--as opposed to the more narrative-centred classical cinema of the 1920s-1950s, which by the late 1970s was beginning to feel like an anachronism. In other words, according to Turnoc, Star Wars and Close Encounters of the Third Kind represent the birth of cinema as multi-million dollar light show.

    However, I would argue that Lucas' background in experimental filmmaking is much more relevant to THX 1131--my favourite Lucas film for its disorienting style which overwhelms the sub-Orwellian plot--than Star Wars, in which Lucas' style is largely subordinate to task of keeping the plot chugging along as smoothly and efficiently as possible.
    Last edited by baby doll; 03-04-2021 at 04:23 PM.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  18. #93
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    I think you're conflating "experimental" with "good". I've seen plenty of experimental films that were nigh unwatchable dreck, and there are many by-the-numbers crowd pleasers that are made with impeccable craftsmanship and artistry (and vice versa of course).

    A significant amount of Pixar's output has been just that - archetypal story telling that is just dialed in so tightly and with such beautiful audio visual design that the material is elevated.

    It's also very hard to take seriously a statement like "the only semi-plausible defence of the film I've come across"...one of the most celebrated sets of films in all of history, and in all your studies of film you have only found one respectable defense of the love they get? Come on...
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  19. #94
    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    I think you're conflating "experimental" with "good". I've seen plenty of experimental films that were nigh unwatchable dreck, and there are many by-the-numbers crowd pleasers that are made with impeccable craftsmanship and artistry (and vice versa of course).

    A significant amount of Pixar's output has been just that - archetypal story telling that is just dialed in so tightly and with such beautiful audio visual design that the material is elevated.

    It's also very hard to take seriously a statement like "the only semi-plausible defence of the film I've come across"...one of the most celebrated sets of films in all of history, and in all your studies of film you have only found one respectable defense of the love they get? Come on...
    Star Wars doesn't really fall into my area of expertise, and not being terribly interested in it, I've not made an effort to familiarize myself with the literature on it (which I'm sure is extensive). I'm only familiar with Turnoc's book because I had to read two chapters for a class I took. Nobody can read everything.

    Of course, it was never my intention to conflate experimental with good; my point was simply that it is more profitable to approach THX 1131 in that spirit than Star Wars. And taken as an instance of classical filmmaking, the latter film has even less to recommend it. As far as I can tell, Lucas' major innovation in the film was to achieve a kind of hyper-legibility: If every character and situation is a cliché and every shot organized to be instantly legible even to very small children, the film can shuttle the viewer through its obligatory plot with virtually no friction. It's consistently pleasant to watch but it never engaged me very deeply.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  20. #95
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    See that's perfectly reasonable and understandable.

    I know they're not your bailiwick, which I understand completely. The same way that say, Godard, isn't mine. I still see the immense value and credibility he has lent to film as an art medium.

    DaMU and I came up with a really great new direction for Star Wars to take, when we were discussing a few weeks ago.

    Have it open with Luke, cloaked in black, assembling a new lightsaber.

    When he switches it on, the theater explodes at the ear shattering loudness of AC/DC'S Back in Black.

    Michael Bay's Star Wars.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  21. #96
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    My wife hated The Princess Bride.

  22. #97
    U ZU MA KI Spun Lepton's Avatar
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    C hates The Princess Bride, too.
    My YouTube Channel: Grim Street Grindhouse
    My Top 100 Horror Movies OF ALL TIME.

  23. #98
    When meg said bailiwick my mind said, "Well that's obviously not a word." Turns out I was wrong.

    And not liking The Princess Bride is inconceivable.

  24. #99
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Its weird, right? And my wife adores puns. How can you not like that movie?

  25. #100
    I watched Vagabond. Great movie. There's lots to appreciate, but the discordant score and Sandrine Bonnaire's performance were the highlights for me. Not opposed at all to it being in the discussion for best of the 80s. Nomadland, but way better.

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