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Thread: Mank (David Fincher)

  1. #51
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    I didnt feel the film made a strong initial impression that Durden was a great guy...literally his first scene hes a condescending ass. "Hows that working for you? Keep it up then."

  2. #52
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    I didnt feel the film made a strong initial impression that Durden was a great guy...literally his first scene hes a condescending ass. "Hows that working for you? Keep it up then."
    At the very least, he's a character with a great many positive attributes (fit, self-reliant, hyper-knowledgeable, a dynamo in the sack) and he's played by a charismatic star. He's not a character most of the audience is going to hate off the bat, nor does the audience wonder why the narrator is so attracted to him.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    At the very least, he's a character with a great many positive attributes (fit, self-reliant, hyper-knowledgeable, a dynamo in the sack) and he's played by a charismatic star. He's not a character most of the audience is going to hate off the bat, nor does the audience wonder why the narrator is so attracted to him.
    For someone who says filmmakers intentions can fuck off, audience reaction only thing that's true, you sure have a lot of absolute definitive definitions about the the audience and what they believe.

  4. #54
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    For someone who says filmmakers intentions can fuck off, audience reaction only thing that's true, you sure have a lot of absolute definitive definitions about the the audience and what they believe.
    It's important to distinguish between interpretation and emotional response. Although audiences can and do attribute a wide range of abstract meanings to films, emotional responses tend to be more uniform. The message of Fight Club could be interpreted variously as: capitalism will be destroyed by its own internal contradictions; if repressed, homosexual desire manifests itself as toxic masculinity (hence, the narrator's desire to disfigure Angel Face); heterosexual monogamy solves everything; [add your own]. However, none of these interpretations entails an emotional evaluation of the film's characters and events. Or to put it another way, individual spectators may infer different meanings while still agreeing on how the film made them feel. Whatever your reading of the film, I'd wager nobody comes away from the film thinking that the narrator's boss at the insurance company is the real hero of the story.

    On the other hand, as we have already noted, there is a contingent of college bros for whom Durden is not just appealing but an aspirational figure, and it's easy to see why: Durden is the embodiment of everything late twentieth century American culture tells men they ought to be (fit, self-reliant, etc.). Even what you take to be a condescending remark could be construed as a refreshing ability to cut through PC bullshit and speak the truth without fear of offending anyone. Of course, it's possible to imagine, at least in theory, a spectator for whom fitness, self-reliance, hyper-knowledgeability, bluntness, and a dick that won't quit are negative character attributes, but in reality, there probably aren't that many living in the United States or, for that matter, anywhere else. Therefore, it seems reasonable to infer that most spectators who see the film will find Durden at least somewhat appealing. Indeed, the film wouldn't work if they didn't, because they wouldn't understand why the narrator is attracted to him as a sort of anti-consumerist guru.
    Last edited by baby doll; 10-11-2020 at 05:54 AM.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

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    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  5. #55
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    I think that finding someone attractive and knowing they are toxic are not mutually exclusive.

    The movie trusts the audience to know that Durden is a POS, and that the Narrator is attracted to him and idolizes him because he is also a POS just in the opposite way.

    You could argue that that is part of the message of the film - audiences who see Durden as genuinely attractive and charismatic are themselves indicative of the shallow, materialistic and egotistical stereotype of the modern American. But that's getting uncomfortably close to Haneke-level condescension, and I really don't think that's what Fincher was going for.
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  6. #56
    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    I think that finding someone attractive and knowing they are toxic are not mutually exclusive.

    The movie trusts the audience to know that Durden is a POS, and that the Narrator is attracted to him and idolizes him because he is also a POS just in the opposite way.

    You could argue that that is part of the message of the film - audiences who see Durden as genuinely attractive and charismatic are themselves indicative of the shallow, materialistic and egotistical stereotype of the modern American. But that's getting uncomfortably close to Haneke-level condescension, and I really don't think that's what Fincher was going for.
    I agree that attraction and repulsion are not mutually exclusive, but I don't think we should dismiss the college bros out of hand as idiots who don't understand the film. Nor, for that matter, should we conclude that the bros actually understand the film better--or at least more honestly--than people who think the film is criticizing Durden's actions (Ebert: "The images in movies like this argue for themselves, and it takes a lot of narration (or Narration) to argue against them"). Obviously both readings are available to spectators.

    The important thing to remember is that spectators don't reserve judgement about the characters until the film is over, carefully weighing their good points and their bad points and concluding that, on the whole, Durden is a piece of shit. The spectator's judgements always occur in time: One makes an initial judgement ("Durden seems like a pretty cool guy") and then revises it over the course of the movie ("Okay, he doesn't seem like such a cool guy any more"). Moreover, although Fight Club requires spectators to revise their beliefs about the characters more drastically than nearly any movie I can think of (our initial impression of Durden as a real person is completely overturned by the Big Twist), our earlier impressions of the characters aren't simply supplanted by the later ones; rather, they provide the background against which the later impressions are contextualized. Thus, some spectators may acknowledge Durden's flaws and still conclude that, on the whole, he's still a pretty cool guy. In any case, probably very few have come away from the film concluding that he's simply a turd with no appealing characteristics whatsoever. Indeed, it's instructive to compare Fight Club with Kalifornia, where it's established at the outset that Pitt's character is a sociopath and consequently this fact forms the context against which the spectator understands the character's positive attributes that endear him to the David Duchovny character.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  7. #57
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    What was the reason for the sex scene being 100% CGI? That never made sense to me and I don't think I ever read or heard an explanation.

    It's not like Bonham Carter has been shy showing her body in other films, both before and after. And it's not particularly graphic in Fight Club.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  8. #58
    I'm the problem it's me DFA1979's Avatar
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    Mank looks pretty cool. It is weird that Gary Oldman is finally in a Fincher movie.
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  9. #59
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting DFA1979 (view post)
    Mank looks pretty cool. It is weird that Gary Oldman is finally in a Fincher movie.
    I'll take any Fincher, but I wish it would be his style of a Professional or Romeo Is Bleeding crime thriller.

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