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Thread: Ten-Years-Later Match Cut Consensus - 2010

  1. #76
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    Yay Inception wins as it still has the largest thread on MC ever (I think... or maybe it's the Dark Knight)
    Not going to spoil myself by looking the lists up, but it's probably Inception vs The Social Network. Unlike 2009's Basterds vs A Serious Man though, in which the top two have a clear favorite, I have no idea where the score tallying will fall on this one.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  2. #77
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    If I knew how to sort by rating, I would.
    Just click on replies
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  3. #78
    Glancing through, I figured Certified Copy would win.

  4. #79
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    Just click on replies
    I want highest average rating. Went off topic

    Barbarian - ***
    Bones and All - ***
    Tar - **


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  5. #80
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    HONORABLE MENTIONS:


    The Illusionist (Sylvain Chomet)


    The Fighter (David O. Russell)


    Confessions (Tetsuya Nakashima)
    Last edited by Grouchy; 05-20-2020 at 06:58 AM.

  6. #81
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    2010's Illusionist is the animated film.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  7. #82
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Damn, you're right. Sorry.

  8. #83
    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    No, but I should. I think as far as I got was a brief Letterboxd review.

    It resonates with me on so many levels with respect to "family", like no other modern film has before. Like climbing to a summit for years, to finally reach you goal. It's like Cobb had to move mountains just to see his kids again. I dunno.. I get misty thinking about it. But then again, I'm a sucker for father son/kids movies which is why I like Real Steel so much. Well... not as much as Inception.
    Interesting that you focus so much on the film's themes, as opposed to its structure and parallel editing, as that seems like it would be the obvious basis on which to make a case for the film. The problem I have with Nolan's films in general and Inception in particular is that the characters don't seem to exist apart from their function in the plot, either pushing the protagonist towards his goal (e.g., DiCapprio's kids as motivator and ultimate boon) or delaying the film from ending prematurely (the traumatic memory of the dead wife--also a motif in Shutter Island--which provides a "darkest hour" crisis just before the climax). Of course that's true of all narrative films, but Nolan has never been a graceful enough filmmaker to hide the seams. One is always acutely aware of the mechanism of the plot pushing the characters around instead of having the illusion that the characters' traits and desires are propelling the narrative, making it hard for me to care very deeply about the story. If this is more true of Inception than Nolan's other films, this is in large part due to the conventions of the heist movie, where the Fordist approach to pulling a job--in which each member of the gang is like an assembly line worker trained to perform one specific task--tends to underline the degree to which any member of the gang is replaceable.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

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  9. #84
    I like the hallway scene.

  10. #85
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Interesting that you focus so much on the film's themes, as opposed to its structure and parallel editing, as that seems like it would be the obvious basis on which to make a case for the film. The problem I have with Nolan's films in general and Inception in particular is that the characters don't seem to exist apart from their function in the plot, either pushing the protagonist towards his goal (e.g., DiCapprio's kids as motivator and ultimate boon) or delaying the film from ending prematurely (the traumatic memory of the dead wife--also a motif in Shutter Island--which provides a "darkest hour" crisis just before the climax). Of course that's true of all narrative films, but Nolan has never been a graceful enough filmmaker to hide the seams. One is always acutely aware of the mechanism of the plot pushing the characters around instead of having the illusion that the characters' traits and desires are propelling the narrative, making it hard for me to care very deeply about the story. If this is more true of Inception than Nolan's other films, this is in large part due to the conventions of the heist movie, where the Fordist approach to pulling a job--in which each member of the gang is like an assembly line worker trained to perform one specific task--tends to underline the degree to which any member of the gang is replaceable.
    Don't get me wrong. The complexity of the layers adds additional interest for the desire to rewatch. It's not complicated for the sake of being complicated. There's an actual rationale, a point to the complexity, and I like looking for new things every time I watch it. There is also some heavy, heavy exposition dialog, like in most Nolan films, that comes off very amateurish. So while I don't disagree that the characters are not as complex as they come across. Or his eye for action is subpar (compared to the Camerons or Chad Stahelskis of Hollywood). Or the dialog isn't very well vetted... I can ignore all of it because of the film's ambition and entertainment. It excels in the ladder area... and I'm not going to shame a film for not having PTA dialog. Or have Malick cinematography.... It works in the exact areas it needs to be completely satisfying and entertaining.
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  11. #86
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    ... I can ignore all of it because of the film's ambition ...
    Oh I'm here for this point

    ... and I'm not going to shame a film for not having PTA dialog. Or have Malick cinematography....
    PTA excels at dialogue. Lacks ambition/entertainment in other areas of filmmaking.
    Malick slays cinematography. Lacks ambition/entertainment in other areas of filmmaking.

  12. #87
    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    Don't get me wrong. The complexity of the layers adds additional interest for the desire to rewatch. It's not complicated for the sake of being complicated. There's an actual rationale, a point to the complexity, and I like looking for new things every time I watch it. There is also some heavy, heavy exposition dialog, like in most Nolan films, that comes off very amateurish. So while I don't disagree that the characters are not as complex as they come across. Or his eye for action is subpar (compared to the Camerons or Chad Stahelskis of Hollywood). Or the dialog isn't very well vetted... I can ignore all of it because of the film's ambition and entertainment. It excels in the ladder area... and I'm not going to shame a film for not having PTA dialog. Or have Malick cinematography.... It works in the exact areas it needs to be completely satisfying and entertaining.
    Ambition isn't the same as accomplishment, and as a rule, I find narrative films more entertaining, not less, when I believe in and care about the characters. The problem with Inception, as with so many of Nolan's films, is that it's all theory and no practice: Nolan hasn't succeeded in making the characters seem real.

    I'm curious what you understand to be the rationale for the multiple layers. I saw it more as a device to prevent the story from ending prematurely (more levels means more obstructions means a longer run time) and to showoff Nolan's virtuosity, outdoing Griffith by crosscutting between five lines of action instead of four (theoretically, there could've been six or seven, although it's questionable whether spectators could keep all of them straight).
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  13. #88
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    PTA excels at dialogue. Lacks ambition/entertainment in other areas of filmmaking.
    Malick slays cinematography. Lacks ambition/entertainment in other areas of filmmaking.
    Anderson and Malick definitely do not lack for ambition.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  14. #89
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Ambition isn't the same as accomplishment, and as a rule, I find narrative films more entertaining, not less, when I believe in and care about the characters. The problem with Inception, as with so many of Nolan's films, is that it's all theory and no practice: Nolan hasn't succeeded in making the characters seem real.

    I'm curious what you understand to be the rationale for the multiple layers. I saw it more as a device to prevent the story from ending prematurely (more levels means more obstructions means a longer run time) and to showoff Nolan's virtuosity, outdoing Griffith by crosscutting between five lines of action instead of four (theoretically, there could've been six or seven, although it's questionable whether spectators could keep all of them straight).
    1. Said technology exists (Inception)
    2. Technology boundaries pushed until consequences ensued. (A dream within a dream ultimately leading to limbo)
    3. A scramble to resolve the issues to an end

    It's no different than films like the Matrix, or Terminator, the only difference is really is the "layers" are more defined.

    You know,.... if Neo took the blue pill, the Matrix would only be 20 minutes long.
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  15. #90
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Anderson and Malick definitely do not lack for ambition.
    I didnt say they do. They have loads of ambition. But I see lots of reviews (not pointing at MC) that shit in Nolans mouth but give those guys a pass because their ambition is enough to overlook their shortcomings.

  16. #91
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    I didnt say they do. They have loads of ambition. But I see lots of reviews (not pointing at MC) that shit in Nolans mouth but give those guys a pass because their ambition is enough to overlook their shortcomings.
    I'm not sure how useful it is compare these three filmmakers, given how different their ambitions are and the diverse ways in which they fall short of them. In fact, I think Malick's films after the '70s suffer from the exact opposite problem as Nolan's films: Malick's later films are shapeless as narratives and lack vivid characterizations but individual scenes and sequences are often stunning in their emotional impact due to Malick's mastery of montage and his juxtapositions of sound and image, whereas Nolan makes tightly plotted movies that are emotionally dead and visually monotonous.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  17. #92
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    I didnt say they do. They have loads of ambition. But I see lots of reviews (not pointing at MC) that shit in Nolans mouth but give those guys a pass because their ambition is enough to overlook their shortcomings.
    PTA is 20 times the director Nolan is. His cinematography, plotting, dialogue, and work with actors are all vastly superior. Nolan has better commercial instincts. PTA has never directed an action scene, Nolan has directed several terrible ones and several competent ones, so lets call that a tie.
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  18. #93
    Sunrise, Sunset Wryan's Avatar
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    PTA did not have Daniel Day-Lewis throw bowling pins around for 9 hours a day for you to call him an action scene neophyte.
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  19. #94
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    I'm too late for this, aren't I?
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  20. #95
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    I'm not sure how useful it is compare these three filmmakers, given how different their ambitions are and the diverse ways in which they fall short of them.
    I think its fair enough when the overall theme is roughly "filmmakers that are awesome at some stuff and not others and should still get forgiveness"

    In fact, I think Malick's films after the '70s suffer from the exact opposite problem as Nolan's films: Malick's later films are shapeless as narratives and lack vivid characterizations but individual scenes and sequences are often stunning in their emotional impact due to Malick's mastery of montage and his juxtapositions of sound and image
    I feel thats a quantifiably accurate statement.

    whereas Nolan makes tightly plotted movies that are emotionally dead and visually monotonous.
    ...and thats an opinion.

    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    PTA is 20 times the director Nolan is. His cinematography, plotting, dialogue, and work with actors are all vastly superior.
    I feel thats an opinion. If you feel that way, okie-dokie. Not being condescending, I just wouldn't engage it.

    Nolan has better commercial instincts.
    That I would call a fact.

    PTA has never directed an action scene, Nolan has directed several terrible ones and several competent ones, so lets call that a tie.
    I guess mathematically 0=-3+3, but never trying shouldn't equal trying and failing and trying and succeeding. (again this part is opinion again)

  21. #96
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Look, I'm not some big Nolan defender around here, I just think its annoying how his haters act like hes one of the worst directors working.

    Its fine to dislike his work. But my god if you think hes the worst you need to see more movies.

    Edit: and I would say the same (and I HAVE) to anyone saying that of any of the three directors we've been discussing.
    Last edited by Skitch; 05-19-2020 at 11:29 PM.

  22. #97
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    I think its fair enough when the overall theme is roughly "filmmakers that are awesome at some stuff and not others and should still get forgiveness"
    Not all flaws are equally forgivable. In Malick's case, I'm willing to cut him some slack on narrative construction and characterization because I find his films engaging and singular on a moment-by-moment basis, whereas I'm less forgiving of Nolan because I don't find his films fun to watch: They're all scaffolding and no building. That's not to say he's the worst filmmaker in the world; I just don't find his films interesting, which is why I stopped watching them.
    Just because...
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    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
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    The (New) World

  23. #98
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Not all flaws are equally forgivable. In Malick's case, I'm willing to cut him some slack on narrative construction and characterization because I find his films engaging and singular on a moment-by-moment basis, whereas I'm less forgiving of Nolan because I don't find his films fun to watch: They're all scaffolding and no building. That's not to say he's the worst filmmaker in the world; I just don't find his films interesting, which is why I stopped watching them.
    Thats totally fair and I have no problem with anything in that quote. NONE.

  24. #99
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    I like Nolan more than PTA and Malick, and even then I'm struggling to think of the latter two as lacking ambition, unless the specific definition of ambition here is making complex-than-the-norm blockbusters.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  25. #100
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    The specific definition of ambition is letting Sean Penn ramble for 60 minutes to get 30 seconds of dialog.
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

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